March 15, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode of On the Road with Paul Ward, Paul visits Cornell Wine Company in Agoura Hills, CA, to chat with owner and proprietor Matt Morris. Matt shares how his passion for wine led him to acquire the business and gives insight into the history of Cornell Wine Company and its neighbor, the historic Old Place Restaurant. He explains what it means to be a sommelier /səməlˈyā/ and explores the unique character of Southern California wines, often called “Story Driven Wines.” Matt also discusses the challenges faced by local growers, the different “seasons” of wine, and what’s currently trending in the L.A. area. Paul admits to picking wine based on the label, and Matt explains why that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
Matt highlights the wine tastings and pairings at Cornell, including an upcoming Greek food and wine event, and the lively music nights featuring open mic, live performances, and standup comedy. He discusses the unique wines from the Malibu Coast, the influence of microclimates, and L.A.'s surprising Prohibition-era wine history. Matt offers helpful tips for discovering wines you’ll love and pairing them with food. He also talks about the close-knit community at Cornell Wine Company and The Old Place, and how they supported the area after recent fires. Nestled near The Rock Store and Peter Strauss Ranch, Cornell Wine Company offers a “Country Light” escape with peacocks, donkeys, and a rich Hollywood history, including a former big cat training ground for the film industry.
What you’ll learn in this episode: 0:00 Welcome to On the Road and introduction of our guest, Matt Morris, owner proprietor of Cornell Wine Company
0:31 Matt Morris tells us where Cornell Wine Company is located
0:48 We learn from Matt what a sommelier is /səməlˈyā/
1:22 The history of Cornell Wine Company as told by Matt Morris including the Old Place Restaurant, which is next door
4:47 How Matt’s passion for wine started and how he acquired the business
6:11 Paul and Matt discuss Southern California wines, why they are sometimes called, “Story Driven Wines,” and how they make their way to Cornell Wine Company
7:04 Local growers and challenges they have recently faced
9:06 Wines have different “seasons,”and what’s in vogue in the L.A. area right now
10:21 Paul admits he buys a bottle of wine based on the label, Matt gives us insight on why this is good and why this isn’t always great
11:46 Wine tastings and pairings at Cornell Wine Company- Including the upcoming first pairing with Greek food and wine
13:33 The music nights at Cornell Wine Company including Friday performances, open mic and even standup comedy nights
14:04 Matt tells us about the wines that come out of the Malibu Coast based on microclimates and a super interesting fact about L.A, Prohibition and wine-making
16:16 Matt explains the concept behind a wine with a Malibu label that was made outside of Malibu
17:32 Tips on how to best find wines that you enjoy and what food pair well with those
18:43 The community of people who work at Cornell Wine Company and The Old Place Restaurant next door are like a family
19:53 Other items that Cornell Wine Company offers at their gift shop
20:17 Matt tells us about the community outreach done by Cornell Wine Company and The Old Place after the recent fires in the area
21:15 The awesome location of Cornell Wine Company near The Rock Store and Peter Strauss Ranch, complete with peacocks and donkeys, making it a “Country Light” experience outside of L.A.
22:57 Movies filmed in the area as well as a big cat sanctuary back in the day for training animals in movies
23:47 The schedule every month at Cornell Wine Company
24:18 A special thank you our sponsor: Opus Escrow
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi friends, it's Paul Ward, andwelcome to On the Road. Well,
Los Angeles is not necessarilyknown as a wine region.
There is a special spotcalled Cornell Wine Company,
and we are blessed today to havethe owner proprietor, Matt Morris,
welcome to On the Road.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. And we wanna thankour sponsor, Opus Escrow. So Matt,
(00:26):
before we talk about CornellWine Company and your expertise,
where exactly are we?
So Cornell is a neighborhoodthat used to be a township.
It's an unincorporated part of LA County.
It's kinda wedged between Agora Hills,Malibu, and the Santa Monica Mountains.
You consider yourself a wine expert;a "sommelier," some would say.
(00:48):
The sommelier is a term thatusually refers to a person that
works at a restaurant that is in chargeof the wine menu and selecting wines for
for patrons. There are differentschools of certification.
There's a couple that are recognizedin the United States. One is WSET,
one's CMS. I am CMS certified,so I'm a certified Sommelier.
(01:09):
Gotcha.
Yeah, I've been into winefor quite a bit. Yeah.
Interesting. And this place has a lotof history. I mean, not just in wine,
but in just the history ofthis little gem location.
Cornell goes back over,over a hundred years.
I know that it I believe it gotits name or official designation
(01:30):
in 1911 it was called Cornell.
There were a bunch of homesteadersout here, and they had a schoolhouse,
and they named the town after CornellUniversity after Ezra Cornell.
Because he donated all the schoolsupplies for the local schoolhouse.
How did the local folkeven know about Cornell?
I am not a hundred percent surethere are different stories.
(01:52):
I've heard stuff that Ezra Cornelljust was really passionate about
education and spreadingit throughout the country,
so he would donate to differenttowns throughout the country.
I also heard some stuff about the localhomesteaders here having connections to
to that part of New Yorkto the Ithaca area. Yeah.
(02:12):
Interesting. There's alot of history out here.
And this particular building and thenalso the building next door have their own
tales.
Yeah. So there's a few buildingsout here that go back quite a while.
Right next door is theOld Place Restaurant,
which is my favorite restaurant in theworld. It's been a restaurant since 1970.
But the building originallywas the mail room and post
(02:34):
office and general storefor the neighborhood.
Interesting. And you told us a storybefore that you even went there as a kid.
In 1970 a gentleman by thename of Tom Runyon converted
the old post office inandgeneral store into a old Western
Saloon. It was really a place for himto hang out with his very cool friends.
(02:56):
He was involved in a lot of differentold Hollywood pictures back then.
You'd see a lot of differentcool celebrities come by.
It wasn't the most family friendlyrestaurant. I came a little bit later.
My family moved into this area in1996. So, they were still around,
still cooking steaks. Itwasn't as vibrant as before,
(03:16):
but it was still kind of this old westernsaloon with different characters at
the bar. They didn't love having children,
so oftentimes my parents would kind ofhide me behind them and tuck me into the
booth so they wouldn't know I was there.
That's funny. And then this buildingthat we're in now, Cornell Wine Company,
it has its own history.
This entire piece of propertyhere, The Old Place, this spot,
(03:37):
and right next door is ownedstill by the Runyon family.
It was zoned commercially.
And for Tom Runyon to keep the zoning,
he was kind of forced to build something.
No one really knows why he builtthis exact building. It's beautiful.
It looks like it might bea church. There's a cupola.
But he didn't use it for anything.He just used it for storage.
(04:01):
Dirt floors,
nothing until I think 2006 is when
it finally made its transformation.
Ok, was it a wine store in the beginning?
Yeah, so a gentleman by thename of Tim Skogstrom came
to Tom.
He kind of wanted to rejuvenateThe Old Place and convert this into
(04:24):
a tasting room thatcould promote the wines.
The Malibu coast iswas kind of anup-and-coming region at the time.
Tom bought into it even though he hadpreviously said no to every other plan
that had ever come through here.
Tim was able to get him with theidea of the wine tasting room.
When did you decide that you wantedto get into the wine business?
(04:47):
It's a little bit of a tricky question.It's been a, I guess, a long process.
We had spoken earlier.We both went to UC Davis,
and so that as the bestoenology program in the country.
I did not study wine making there,but that was kind of my introduction.
I took Viticulture 101on my 21st birthday.
Me and some friends that were in theoenology program went up to Napa.
(05:08):
And that kind of got me interested.
I really fell in lovewith wine and kind of
everything about it.
I love the science kind of interwovenwith the art of it and the history of
wine. It just kind of has always spokento me. It's always piqued my interest.
I've never lost interest inwine, very passionate about it.
(05:31):
Interesting. Yeah. And then when didyou come to acquire the business?
About a couple years ago. SoTim, as I mentioned before,
he had ran the business for over 15 years,
and he was kind of lookingfor a way to transition out.
And initially he hired me tokind of manage for him before we
transitioned ownership. Then I tookover and he stepped aside. And yeah,
(05:52):
I've been doing thatfor about two years now.
Wonderful. Yeah. So let's talk aboutSouthern California wines in particular.
Yeah, Absooutely.
Because that's where we are. I
read on your site thatyou have what they call,
"Story Driven Wines." Are youapproached by wine makers?
Are you out sleuthing and findingwines to bring into the store?
A little bit of both.A little bit of both.
(06:13):
We definitely have differentsales reps, winemakers.
People come in periodically during theweek to taste us on different things.
We also go out, right now, ourlead sommelier, Jason Kineski,
is out at a barrel tasting in Santa Ynez.
Fun job.
It's fun. There's someperks to it. But yeah,
we do love our localSouthern California, L.A,
(06:34):
Malibu wines, but our main thing iswe like to introduce wines to people.
And we do that by talking about them.
And so we will havedifferent producers come in,
they'll tell us aboutthe wine, we'll taste it.
And if we think that we can turnaround and get some people interested,
we will sell it.
We do our best to try to get winesthat you haven't tried before .
(06:57):
Small production stuffwith a story behind it.
Right. And there are somelittle gems around. I mean,
there are people that aregrowing here, locally.
I am very passionate about thisregion. The Malibu coast AVA,
is the American Viticultural Association,
and it's a designatedregion here in Malibu.
(07:17):
When I kind of first got involvedwith this area before I even came
to start working here. But when Istarted learning more about Malibu wines,
there was a lot of excitement. I wouldsay it was probably about 10 years ago.
It's a really fascinating region withdifferent microclimates and really some
fantastic wines. Unfortunately, there'sbeen a little bit of like a roadblock.
(07:40):
In 2020.
The LA Board of Supervisors kindof put a halt on any new vineyards
in Malibu. It's kind of unclear why.
I think a lot of it has to do with,it's such, it's so beautiful out here.
People are worried of it turninginto like a big touristy area.
(08:00):
But it could never be like Napa or Sonoma.
Right.
I think it's a shamethat we don't share it.
Sure.
Even with this halt on new vineyards,even if it's on your own property,
you can't put a new vineyard.The Woolsey Fire some years ago,
some people lost vineyards.
They're not able to replanton the same plot of land,
(08:20):
and they're also not allowed to plantright next to themselves on their own
property.
Interesting.
So, we've hopefullyturned a corner on that.
We're working with thesupervisors to try to change that.
I think it's a really underrated region.
We have wines that arereally approachable to drink
(08:41):
immediately, but also have somereally cool aging potential.
I think some of the Cabernets, Merlots,
bigger Bordeaux varietals tend to doreally well with about 10 to 15 years
on them,
which is something people won't findout unless we can kinda reenergize the
region.
Yeah. Does the popularity of different
(09:01):
wines kind of ebb and flow?Like, it's chardonnay time?
Absolutely.
And then all of a sudden people switchto cab or they just kind of like...?
Well, seasonally, absolutely. I think,I sold so much Cabernet last week,
, because, you know, we're inFebruary, it's a little bit colder.
In the summer, I sold a lot of rose.
Wine is definitely a businessthat it's what's in vogue.
So what's trending at the time.You'll see different waves of things.
(09:23):
Whether it was a heavy rose wave we had10 years ago, it was a big Malbec wave.
Right now in Los Angeles andanother kind of more urban areas,
you'll see the natural wine wave,which is mostly a marketing term .
But it's, people nowwant less intervention,
so they don't want pesticidesand herbicides or sulfites.
(09:46):
You'll see different styles of wineslike skin contact whites or orange wines,
chilled reds. Wine is kindof always changing like that.
We think of wine as this reallyhistoric old thing that people have been
drinking for thousandsof years, and it is.
But the wine we drink is completelyunrecognizable to what was drank 300,
(10:07):
400 years ago. So you kindaalways have to be on top of that.
Yeah. Interesting. There's so muchto, I mean, as a lay person. You know,
I mean,
I have to admit that sometimes I'mguilty just 'cause I like the art on the
bottle.
Yeah, that's the best way tosell a bottle. Good packaging.
I think here we're in a goodplace where we can actually pour
(10:29):
tastings for people so people canhave a little sip of something,
try it before they buy it andthey're not as dependent on
the label. Labels are really important,but they're also very difficult to read.
Particularly I mean,
the United States doesn't have too manyregulations on what they can say on
labels, but usually it'll say what kindof grape it is and where it's from.
(10:51):
If you're looking at somethingfrom somewhere in Europe,
it might be a little more complicated.
Oftentimes they don't have the grapesbecause the region that it's from dictates
what the grapes are. So you kind ofhave to have this knowledge of wine.
To be able to kind of pick those outaccurately or to find what you want,
which is unfortunate.
So like, Champagne is only fromthe Champagne region. Right.
(11:12):
Something like that. Yeah.
And Champagne can only be threedifferent grapes when you're making it.
It can be Chardonnay, PinotNoir, and Pinot Meunier.
And so different things on thelabel will dictate what it is,
but it won't just say it flatout. Which is unfortunate.
'cause I think something we try todo here is make wine a little more
approachable because it is a very kindof hoity toity, standoffish kinda.
(11:35):
Elitist thing, but it's just, it's justbooze. It's Right. It's for a good time.
It's just really good grape juice.
Yeah, exactly.
And you are doing tastings as youmentioned . And then also pairings.
Yeah. So we are starting to dosome wine dinners. Wine pairings,
something I've always loved doing.
It's kind of that area ofmaybe art, a little science.
(11:57):
There are definitely certain things,you know, work with other things.
Our first wine dinner,
which we're doing this upcomingmonth is actually Greek food and
Greek wine. It kind of goes with a themeof introducing new things to people.
We don't see a lot of Greek wineout here. You might see an aerco .
At a Greek restaurant.
(12:17):
But I've been tasting justfantastic different wines from
different regions of Greece and loveintroducing the, with those two people.
And then to also work with a chef isreally fun to try to pair those wines to
get the, the perfect match. So.
Describe that a little bit more.I mean, how do you do that?
Do you pick the menu andthen the wine? Or the wine?
(12:38):
I really like this wine andlet's figure out the food later.
Yeah. We did some some drinkingand some eating altogether. Yeah.
We kind of the chef and I met and I had,
I think we could do it differently,
but I had some wines that Iwas really passionate about.
So we kind of started with those as abase and then tried to figure out what
kind of dishes would work best withthem. We narrowed some of the wines down.
(13:00):
We started with like ten.We broke it down to to six,
and then we ended up pairing eachthing with each wine. Interesting.
Yeah. Now are these are winesthat are imported from Greece?
Yes.
Yeah. Interesting. And then isit gonna be lamb? And olives?
There's all sorts of dishes, Yeah.
Lamb is definitely one ofthe things we're doing.
So folks will get to havelike a flight of wine?
(13:22):
So, it's a six course menu,
and each course willcome with a paired wine.
And then you also have music nights here.
We love our music nights.
We are lucky enough to havesome really gifted musicians and
performers that frequent the area.
(13:43):
And every Friday we have a differentmusician coming in and playing
playing for us. And it's, it's really fun.
That's awesome. And thenyou also do a mic night or?
Open night? Yeah. Once, a month we doopen mic, so anyone can come and perform.
And then we also do a standupcomedy night once a month.
So what wines do comeout of the Malibu coast.
(14:04):
You'll see a variety of different wines.
There's kind of threedifferent microclimates. If you go closer to the coast,
it's much cooler.
So you'll get the cooler climategrapes like Chardonnay and Pinot Noir.
That is some of the most expensivereal estate in the world.
So there's not a lot of,it's filled up with vines.
So you don't see too much theChardonnay and Pinot Noir.
(14:25):
When you do see 'em though,they tend to be fantastic.
Moving in you'll start seeingmore Bordeaux varietals.
So grapes that originated inthe Bordeaux region of France,
like Cabernet Sauvignon,Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Malbec.
And then you keep moving even furtherin and you'll start seeing more warmer
(14:46):
climate grapes. So you seea lot of Syrah, Sangiovese,
Chianti, or excuse me,Sangiovese, Chianti.
What other grapes are we seeing inthere? Grenache a little bit. Yeah.
So it's kind of these three differentmicroclimates that make really distinct
wines. L.A. actually,
before Prohibition was the thecenter of wine growing in California.
(15:10):
Really?
Yeah. There was, everyone kind ofhad their own backyard vineyard.
There was also a lot ofwine that was being sold.
And Prohibition kind of coincidedwith the urbanization of Los Angeles.
So by the time prohibition was over,everything was kind of paved already.
Also, LA hasn't allowed,
or they've only allowed one new winemaking permit since Prohibition.
(15:33):
So anyone that grows in LA County actuallyhas to leave LA County to make the
wine.
Oh, so you take your grapes andthen you process 'em somewhere else?
Exactly. So like, there's 40 to50 growers out here in Malibu.
No one's making it in L.A.
Most people go to VenturaCounty or Santa Barbara.
Some people go all the way up toNapa. Some people go to Temecula.
The only people that have wine makingpermits are San Antonio Winery,
(15:57):
which there's pre-day prohibition.They made Sacramental. Gallo as well,
which is the biggest wine producer inthe world. And then Moraga who's owned,
which is owned by Rupert Murdoch,which is like, money can, of course,
it'll get you, theonly wine making permit. Right.
but really cool property,excellent wine coming outta there.
Now you still have the Malibu label,
(16:18):
even though you took the wineto be processed somewhere else.
Yeah. So, the region that your wine,
or that is listed on your wineis where the grapes are grown.
So it'll be Malibu Coast AVA,which I keep saying that,
that is a region that kind of extends,if you're familiar with this area,
it's from the 101 freeway allthe way to the coast from about
(16:42):
Calabasas up to Westlake Boulevard.So it's a pretty big region,
40 to 50 growers. Like Isaid, everyone's taking it.
That's a lot. You don't realize that.
There's not a lot of people that areselling their wine. There used to be more.
A lot of 'em, it's private label, drinkthemselves, give to their friends.
But yeah, they, there's a bunch ofvineyards kind of scattered around,
(17:05):
and even other parts of LA as well.
There's some really coolwine makers like Mark Blady
and Ape Schoener that are going out,
finding these little old vineyardsscattered around LA and making pretty
cool wine with it. .
I guess for the novice, howwould the novice who, you know,
wants to learn more about wine .
(17:27):
How would they learn about goodwine versus bad wine? I mean,
I know there's like, youknow, Two Buck Chuck, but.
I think the best way to goabout that is to go to a smaller
local wine shop where they can kind of,
it's not so much good versusbad. It's kinda what you enjoy.
And everyone enjoys different things.It doesn't make something good or bad.
(17:48):
But a smaller shop will help
find some good quality stuff,
let you know how much of it's beingmade, what kind of grape it is,
and they can help pair toyour likings and your palate.
That I always recommend. It's the bestway. We do a really good job of it here.
We have really good staffthat enjoy talking to people.
(18:12):
It's kind of like a game to try tofigure out the perfect wine for somebody.
I know that's my favorite thing todo, is pick out a wine for somebody.
And I would imagine people comein and they're having their,
hosting their own dinner, and Yeah.They want some help, you know,
as the pairing expert, you canhelp 'em pick out the right wine.
Yeah. I love pairing wines fordinner and I love finding wines that
(18:33):
people enjoy.
It's really a fun thing for us here.
So, you've got a wide, widerange of people working here.
Yeah. We have a reallycool community, I think.
Not only just the people that work here,
but the people that work at The OldPlace next door and the people that have
worked there in the past. Everyonekind of is this big family,
(18:56):
a lot of them (are) very, very local,which is very convenient for me.
Can call up Holly, who lives down thestreet, or Megan is just up Kanon,
and they can come help out. Andeveryone's really eager to do it.
We definitely enjoy our timehere. I love spending time here,
obviously, but I think everyonereally enjoys their work here.
(19:17):
And we do feel really close. Especiallywith the guys next door, the wait staff,
the kitchen. We're all one big family.
We do our holiday party together andwe're always looking out for each other.
We're about as friendly as you couldpossibly be. I worked there also.
I pretty much had every single job atThe Old Place from washing dishes to
(19:37):
managing the bar. It's just a part of me.
It's like a family member. Ilove that restaurant so much.
That's awesome.
And yeah, I love the people that workthere and the people that work here.
We're all one big family.
That's awesome. And you've gotother items here besides wine.
Yeah. So that kind of is anotherextension in the community.
We are also a gift shop.
(19:58):
We sell different artisan goodsfrom different local vendors.
We have a local ceramicists,local photographers,
local artists that selltheir wares here. And yeah,
it's another extension of our community.
You did some kind of aclothing drive after the fires?
Yeah, the fires definitelyimpacted us as they do every year.
(20:23):
This, this one was bad just 'causeit was an extension of our community,
the Palisades and Topanga,that it's right next door.
It's a lot of our clientele, our people.
And so started by Sierra Drummond,
who runs most of our music program here.
We did a clothing donation drive
(20:43):
for people that lost their homes, losteverything also for first responders.
And it was just a really greatexperience to be able to help in any
way we could.
But also to see the community cometogether to try to donate their time and
effort to help out. It was really special.
That's wonderful. I mean, you know,people don't know where to turn and Yeah.
(21:05):
Time of darkness and there's somebodydoing a good deed (even) if it's small as
it is.
Yeah. Yeah. We do what wecan. That's right. Yeah.
So we're not too far from MuhollandHighway. It's right around the corner.
That's the street we're on, actually.
And it's really kind of createsa unique setting for us.
There's not a lot of businesses outhere. There's us, The Old Place,
(21:26):
and then the famous rockstore down the street.
And The Rock Store is avery famous biker hangout.
And we've kind of got ourown reputation now as well.
Not as much as a biker hangout,
but we have some cool carclubs that come through.
So we have a really interestingcrowd that comes in on the weekend.
You'll see some amazing carsand bikes and all sorts.
(21:48):
Yeah.
And there's like an abandoned swimmingpool across the street from back in the
(park.).
Yeah. So across the streetis is Peter Strauss park.
It was formally known as Lake Encanto,
which was an amusement park.
There is had the one timethe largest pool west of the
Mississippi, I think. Thatsounds silly, but,
(22:10):
I think that's what it was. Andthere was different rides there.
There's an aviary. It's actuallythe story where our peacocks,
we have wild peacocks here.I did see some outside.
They they came from acrossthe street in the sixties when
the park closed down. Theyjust kinda let the birds out.
And the peacocks havebeen here ever since.
(22:30):
Neighbors kind of helped take care of 'em.
So, we're talking 65 years. Thebirds have just been wandering out.
They've been here for a while. Yeah. And.
I heard some donkeys inthe background. Yeah.
Those are our neighbors donkeys. Wegot a lot of fun wildlife up here.
It's definitely kinda living inthe country, at least for L.A,
it's about as country asit gets. There's donkeys.
Country light.
Country light. Yeah. Yeah.
You're not, you're nottoo far from Starbucks.
(22:50):
Not too far. No..
But you feel like you're a world away.
Yeah. Exactly.
There's also a lake not too far from here?
Yeah, it's a residentiallake, Malibu lake.
It's just about a mile down theroad. A lot of cool old history.
They've shot a lot of films thereincluding the original Frankenstein.
Oh, wow.
The Great Dictator. Couple otherthings that I'm forgetting.
(23:14):
They had like a big cat animal
sanctuary where I guess the trainer wouldhave animals for different movies back
in the day.
Yeah. There's,
there's a lot of different films thatwere shot here and a lot of studios out
here. Paramount Ranch is, that's what Ireferred to just now. Paramount Ranch.
That was owned by Paramount and itwas Old Western Lot and set that was
(23:37):
just around the corner.
And then also the old place was usedfor a number of different TV shows and
movies.
So, what does a typical monthlook like schedule wise?
So we will have livemusic every single Friday.
We'll have open mic on thelast Sunday of every month.
And we also have comedy oneof the Saturdays every month.
(23:59):
And we have a singer songwriter nighton one of the Saturdays as well.
Very cool.
So very full schedule every weekend.We'll probably have something going on.
Well, Matt Morris, thank you so muchfor being our guest on this on the Road.
We'd loved having you and learningabout you and Cornell Wine.
Company. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. Be sure to tunein next time for On the Road.
Hi friends, it's Paul Ward, andwelcome to On the Road. Well,
Los Angeles is not necessarilyknown as a wine region.
There is a special spotcalled Cornell Wine Company,
and we are blessed today to havethe owner proprietor, Matt Morris,
welcome to On the Road.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. And we wanna thankour sponsor, Opus Escrow. So Matt,
(00:26):
before we talk about CornellWine Company and your expertise,
where exactly are we?
So Cornell is a neighborhoodthat used to be a township.
It's an unincorporated part of LA County.
It's kinda wedged between Agora Hills,Malibu, and the Santa Monica Mountains.
You consider yourself a wine expert;a "sommelier," some would say.
(00:48):
The sommelier is a term thatusually refers to a person that
works at a restaurant that is in chargeof the wine menu and selecting wines for
for patrons. There are differentschools of certification.
There's a couple that are recognizedin the United States. One is WSET,
one's CMS. I am CMS certified,so I'm a certified Sommelier.
(01:09):
Gotcha.
Yeah, I've been into winefor quite a bit. Yeah.
Interesting. And this place has a lotof history. I mean, not just in wine,
but in just the history ofthis little gem location.
Cornell goes back over,over a hundred years.
I know that it I believe it gotits name or official designation
(01:30):
in 1911 it was called Cornell.
There were a bunch of homesteadersout here, and they had a schoolhouse,
and they named the town after CornellUniversity after Ezra Cornell.
Because he donated all the schoolsupplies for the local schoolhouse.
How did the local folkeven know about Cornell?
I am not a hundred percent surethere are different stories.
(01:52):
I've heard stuff that Ezra Cornelljust was really passionate about
education and spreadingit throughout the country,
so he would donate to differenttowns throughout the country.
I also heard some stuff about the localhomesteaders here having connections to
to that part of New Yorkto the Ithaca area. Yeah.
(02:12):
Interesting. There's alot of history out here.
And this particular building and thenalso the building next door have their own
tales.
Yeah. So there's a few buildingsout here that go back quite a while.
Right next door is theOld Place Restaurant,
which is my favorite restaurant in theworld. It's been a restaurant since 1970.
But the building originallywas the mail room and post
(02:34):
office and general storefor the neighborhood.
Interesting. And you told us a storybefore that you even went there as a kid.
In 1970 a gentleman by thename of Tom Runyon converted
the old post office inandgeneral store into a old Western
Saloon. It was really a place for himto hang out with his very cool friends.
(02:56):
He was involved in a lot of differentold Hollywood pictures back then.
You'd see a lot of differentcool celebrities come by.
It wasn't the most family friendlyrestaurant. I came a little bit later.
My family moved into this area in1996. So, they were still around,
still cooking steaks. Itwasn't as vibrant as before,
(03:16):
but it was still kind of this old westernsaloon with different characters at
the bar. They didn't love having children,
so oftentimes my parents would kind ofhide me behind them and tuck me into the
booth so they wouldn't know I was there.
That's funny. And then this buildingthat we're in now, Cornell Wine Company,
it has its own history.
This entire piece of propertyhere, The Old Place, this spot,
(03:37):
and right next door is ownedstill by the Runyon family.
It was zoned commercially.
And for Tom Runyon to keep the zoning,
he was kind of forced to build something.
No one really knows why he builtthis exact building. It's beautiful.
It looks like it might bea church. There's a cupola.
But he didn't use it for anything.He just used it for storage.
(04:01):
Dirt floors,
nothing until I think 2006 is when
it finally made its transformation.
Ok, was it a wine store in the beginning?
Yeah, so a gentleman by thename of Tim Skogstrom came
to Tom.
He kind of wanted to rejuvenateThe Old Place and convert this into
(04:24):
a tasting room thatcould promote the wines.
The Malibu coast iswas kind of anup-and-coming region at the time.
Tom bought into it even though he hadpreviously said no to every other plan
that had ever come through here.
Tim was able to get him with theidea of the wine tasting room.
When did you decide that you wantedto get into the wine business?
(04:47):
It's a little bit of a tricky question.It's been a, I guess, a long process.
We had spoken earlier.We both went to UC Davis,
and so that as the bestoenology program in the country.
I did not study wine making there,but that was kind of my introduction.
I took Viticulture 101on my 21st birthday.
Me and some friends that were in theoenology program went up to Napa.
(05:08):
And that kind of got me interested.
I really fell in lovewith wine and kind of
everything about it.
I love the science kind of interwovenwith the art of it and the history of
wine. It just kind of has always spokento me. It's always piqued my interest.
I've never lost interest inwine, very passionate about it.
(05:31):
Interesting. Yeah. And then when didyou come to acquire the business?
About a couple years ago. SoTim, as I mentioned before,
he had ran the business for over 15 years,
and he was kind of lookingfor a way to transition out.
And initially he hired me tokind of manage for him before we
transitioned ownership. Then I tookover and he stepped aside. And yeah,
(05:52):
I've been doing thatfor about two years now.
Wonderful. Yeah. So let's talk aboutSouthern California wines in particular.
Yeah, Absooutely.
Because that's where we are. I
read on your site thatyou have what they call,
"Story Driven Wines." Are youapproached by wine makers?
Are you out sleuthing and findingwines to bring into the store?
A little bit of both.A little bit of both.
(06:13):
We definitely have differentsales reps, winemakers.
People come in periodically during theweek to taste us on different things.
We also go out, right now, ourlead sommelier, Jason Kineski,
is out at a barrel tasting in Santa Ynez.
Fun job.
It's fun. There's someperks to it. But yeah,
we do love our localSouthern California, L.A,
(06:34):
Malibu wines, but our main thing iswe like to introduce wines to people.
And we do that by talking about them.
And so we will havedifferent producers come in,
they'll tell us aboutthe wine, we'll taste it.
And if we think that we can turnaround and get some people interested,
we will sell it.
We do our best to try to get winesthat you haven't tried before .
(06:57):
Small production stuffwith a story behind it.
Right. And there are somelittle gems around. I mean,
there are people that aregrowing here, locally.
I am very passionate about thisregion. The Malibu coast AVA,
is the American Viticultural Association,
and it's a designatedregion here in Malibu.
(07:17):
When I kind of first got involvedwith this area before I even came
to start working here. But when Istarted learning more about Malibu wines,
there was a lot of excitement. I wouldsay it was probably about 10 years ago.
It's a really fascinating region withdifferent microclimates and really some
fantastic wines. Unfortunately, there'sbeen a little bit of like a roadblock.
(07:40):
In 2020.
The LA Board of Supervisors kindof put a halt on any new vineyards
in Malibu. It's kind of unclear why.
I think a lot of it has to do with,it's such, it's so beautiful out here.
People are worried of it turninginto like a big touristy area.
(08:00):
But it could never be like Napa or Sonoma.
Right.
I think it's a shamethat we don't share it.
Sure.
Even with this halt on new vineyards,even if it's on your own property,
you can't put a new vineyard.The Woolsey Fire some years ago,
some people lost vineyards.
They're not able to replanton the same plot of land,
(08:20):
and they're also not allowed to plantright next to themselves on their own
property.
Interesting.
So, we've hopefullyturned a corner on that.
We're working with thesupervisors to try to change that.
I think it's a really underrated region.
We have wines that arereally approachable to drink
(08:41):
immediately, but also have somereally cool aging potential.
I think some of the Cabernets, Merlots,
bigger Bordeaux varietals tend to doreally well with about 10 to 15 years
on them,
which is something people won't findout unless we can kinda reenergize the
region.
Yeah. Does the popularity of different
(09:01):
wines kind of ebb and flow?Like, it's chardonnay time?
Absolutely.
And then all of a sudden people switchto cab or they just kind of like...?
Well, seasonally, absolutely. I think,I sold so much Cabernet last week,
In the summer, I sold a lot of rose.
Wine is definitely a businessthat it's what's in vogue.
So what's trending at the time.You'll see different waves of things.
(09:23):
Whether it was a heavy rose wave we had10 years ago, it was a big Malbec wave.
Right now in Los Angeles andanother kind of more urban areas,
you'll see the natural wine wave,which is mostly a marketing term .
But it's, people nowwant less intervention,
so they don't want pesticidesand herbicides or sulfites.
(09:46):
You'll see different styles of wineslike skin contact whites or orange wines,
chilled reds. Wine is kindof always changing like that.
We think of wine as this reallyhistoric old thing that people have been
drinking for thousandsof years, and it is.
But the wine we drink is completelyunrecognizable to what was drank 300,
(10:07):
400 years ago. So you kindaalways have to be on top of that.
Yeah. Interesting. There's so muchto, I mean, as a lay person. You know,
I mean,
I have to admit that sometimes I'mguilty just 'cause I like the art on the
bottle.
Yeah, that's the best way tosell a bottle. Good packaging.
I think here we're in a goodplace where we can actually pour
(10:29):
tastings for people so people canhave a little sip of something,
try it before they buy it andthey're not as dependent on
the label. Labels are really important,but they're also very difficult to read.
Particularly I mean,
the United States doesn't have too manyregulations on what they can say on
labels, but usually it'll say what kindof grape it is and where it's from.
(10:51):
If you're looking at somethingfrom somewhere in Europe,
it might be a little more complicated.
Oftentimes they don't have the grapesbecause the region that it's from dictates
what the grapes are. So you kind ofhave to have this knowledge of wine.
To be able to kind of pick those outaccurately or to find what you want,
which is unfortunate.
So like, Champagne is only fromthe Champagne region. Right.
(11:12):
Something like that. Yeah.
And Champagne can only be threedifferent grapes when you're making it.
It can be Chardonnay, PinotNoir, and Pinot Meunier.
And so different things on thelabel will dictate what it is,
but it won't just say it flatout. Which is unfortunate.
'cause I think something we try todo here is make wine a little more
approachable because it is a very kindof hoity toity, standoffish kinda.
(11:35):
Elitist thing, but it's just, it's justbooze. It's Right. It's for a good time.
It's just really good grape juice.
Yeah, exactly.
And you are doing tastings as youmentioned . And then also pairings.
Yeah. So we are starting to dosome wine dinners. Wine pairings,
something I've always loved doing.
It's kind of that area ofmaybe art, a little science.
(11:57):
There are definitely certain things,you know, work with other things.
Our first wine dinner,
which we're doing this upcomingmonth is actually Greek food and
Greek wine. It kind of goes with a themeof introducing new things to people.
We don't see a lot of Greek wineout here. You might see an aerco .
At a Greek restaurant.
(12:17):
But I've been tasting justfantastic different wines from
different regions of Greece and loveintroducing the, with those two people.
And then to also work with a chef isreally fun to try to pair those wines to
get the, the perfect match. So.
Describe that a little bit more.I mean, how do you do that?
Do you pick the menu andthen the wine? Or the wine?
(12:38):
I really like this wine andlet's figure out the food later.
Yeah. We did some some drinkingand some eating altogether. Yeah.
We kind of the chef and I met and I had,
I think we could do it differently,
but I had some wines that Iwas really passionate about.
So we kind of started with those as abase and then tried to figure out what
kind of dishes would work best withthem. We narrowed some of the wines down.
(13:00):
We started with like ten.We broke it down to to six,
and then we ended up pairing eachthing with each wine. Interesting.
Yeah. Now are these are winesthat are imported from Greece?
Yes.
Yeah. Interesting. And then isit gonna be lamb? And olives?
There's all sorts of dishes, Yeah.
Lamb is definitely one ofthe things we're doing.
So folks will get to havelike a flight of wine?
(13:22):
So, it's a six course menu,
and each course willcome with a paired wine.
And then you also have music nights here.
We love our music nights.
We are lucky enough to havesome really gifted musicians and
performers that frequent the area.
(13:43):
And every Friday we have a differentmusician coming in and playing
playing for us. And it's, it's really fun.
That's awesome. And thenyou also do a mic night or?
Open night? Yeah. Once, a month we doopen mic, so anyone can come and perform.
And then we also do a standupcomedy night once a month.
So what wines do comeout of the Malibu coast.
(14:04):
You'll see a variety of different wines.
There's kind of threedifferent microclimates. If you go closer to the coast,
it's much cooler.
So you'll get the cooler climategrapes like Chardonnay and Pinot Noir.
That is some of the most expensivereal estate in the world.
So there's not a lot of,it's filled up with vines.
So you don't see too much theChardonnay and Pinot Noir.
(14:25):
When you do see 'em though,they tend to be fantastic.
Moving in you'll start seeingmore Bordeaux varietals.
So grapes that originated inthe Bordeaux region of France,
like Cabernet Sauvignon,Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Malbec.
And then you keep moving even furtherin and you'll start seeing more warmer
(14:46):
climate grapes. So you seea lot of Syrah, Sangiovese,
Chianti, or excuse me,Sangiovese, Chianti.
What other grapes are we seeing inthere? Grenache a little bit. Yeah.
So it's kind of these three differentmicroclimates that make really distinct
wines. L.A. actually,
before Prohibition was the thecenter of wine growing in California.
(15:10):
Really?
Yeah. There was, everyone kind ofhad their own backyard vineyard.
There was also a lot ofwine that was being sold.
And Prohibition kind of coincidedwith the urbanization of Los Angeles.
So by the time prohibition was over,everything was kind of paved already.
Also, LA hasn't allowed,
or they've only allowed one new winemaking permit since Prohibition.
(15:33):
So anyone that grows in LA County actuallyhas to leave LA County to make the
wine.
Oh, so you take your grapes andthen you process 'em somewhere else?
Exactly. So like, there's 40 to50 growers out here in Malibu.
No one's making it in L.A.
Most people go to VenturaCounty or Santa Barbara.
Some people go all the way up toNapa. Some people go to Temecula.
The only people that have wine makingpermits are San Antonio Winery,
(15:57):
which there's pre-day prohibition.They made Sacramental. Gallo as well,
which is the biggest wine producer inthe world. And then Moraga who's owned,
which is owned by Rupert Murdoch,which is like, money can, of course,
it'll get you
but really cool property,excellent wine coming outta there.
Now you still have the Malibu label,
(16:18):
even though you took the wineto be processed somewhere else.
Yeah. So, the region that your wine,
or that is listed on your wineis where the grapes are grown.
So it'll be Malibu Coast AVA,which I keep saying that,
that is a region that kind of extends,if you're familiar with this area,
it's from the 101 freeway allthe way to the coast from about
(16:42):
Calabasas up to Westlake Boulevard.So it's a pretty big region,
40 to 50 growers. Like Isaid, everyone's taking it.
That's a lot. You don't realize that.
There's not a lot of people that areselling their wine. There used to be more.
A lot of 'em, it's private label, drinkthemselves, give to their friends.
But yeah, they, there's a bunch ofvineyards kind of scattered around,
(17:05):
and even other parts of LA as well.
There's some really coolwine makers like Mark Blady
and Ape Schoener that are going out,
finding these little old vineyardsscattered around LA and making pretty
cool wine with it. .
I guess for the novice, howwould the novice who, you know,
wants to learn more about wine .
(17:27):
How would they learn about goodwine versus bad wine? I mean,
I know there's like, youknow, Two Buck Chuck, but.
I think the best way
local wine shop where they can kind of,
it's not so much good versusbad. It's kinda what you enjoy.
And everyone enjoys different things.It doesn't make something good or bad.
(17:48):
But a smaller shop will help
find some good quality stuff,
let you know how much of it's beingmade, what kind of grape it is,
and they can help pair toyour likings and your palate.
That I always recommend. It's the bestway. We do a really good job of it here.
We have really good staffthat enjoy talking to people.
(18:12):
It's kind of like a game to try tofigure out the perfect wine for somebody.
I know that's my favorite thing todo, is pick out a wine for somebody.
And I would imagine people comein and they're having their,
hosting their own dinner, and Yeah.They want some help, you know,
as the pairing expert, you canhelp 'em pick out the right wine.
Yeah. I love pairing wines fordinner and I love finding wines that
(18:33):
people enjoy.
It's really a fun thing for us here.
So, you've got a wide, widerange of people working here.
Yeah. We have a reallycool community, I think.
Not only just the people that work here,
but the people that work at The OldPlace next door and the people that have
worked there in the past. Everyonekind of is this big family,
(18:56):
a lot of them (are) very, very local,which is very convenient for me.
Can call up Holly, who lives down thestreet, or Megan is just up Kanon,
and they can come help out. Andeveryone's really eager to do it.
We definitely enjoy our timehere. I love spending time here,
obviously, but I think everyonereally enjoys their work here.
(19:17):
And we do feel really close. Especiallywith the guys next door, the wait staff,
the kitchen. We're all one big family.
We do our holiday party together andwe're always looking out for each other.
We're about as friendly as you couldpossibly be. I worked there also.
I pretty much had every single job atThe Old Place from washing dishes to
(19:37):
managing the bar. It's just a part of me.
It's like a family member. Ilove that restaurant so much.
That's awesome.
And yeah, I love the people that workthere and the people that work here.
We're all one big family.
That's awesome. And you've gotother items here besides wine.
Yeah. So that kind of is anotherextension in the community.
We are also a gift shop.
(19:58):
We sell different artisan goodsfrom different local vendors.
We have a local ceramicists,local photographers,
local artists that selltheir wares here. And yeah,
it's another extension of our community.
You did some kind of aclothing drive after the fires?
Yeah, the fires definitelyimpacted us as they do every year.
(20:23):
This, this one was bad just 'causeit was an extension of our community,
the Palisades and Topanga,that it's right next door.
It's a lot of our clientele, our people.
And so started by Sierra Drummond,
who runs most of our music program here.
We did a clothing donation drive
(20:43):
for people that lost their homes, losteverything also for first responders.
And it was just a really greatexperience to be able to help in any
way we could.
But also to see the community cometogether to try to donate their time and
effort to help out. It was really special.
That's wonderful. I mean, you know,people don't know where to turn and Yeah.
(21:05):
Time of darkness and there's somebodydoing a good deed (even) if it's small as
it is.
Yeah. Yeah. We do what wecan. That's right. Yeah.
So we're not too far from MuhollandHighway. It's right around the corner.
That's the street we're on, actually.
And it's really kind of createsa unique setting for us.
There's not a lot of businesses outhere. There's us, The Old Place,
(21:26):
and then the famous rockstore down the street.
And The Rock Store is avery famous biker hangout.
And we've kind of got ourown reputation now as well.
Not as much as a biker hangout,
but we have some cool carclubs that come through.
So we have a really interestingcrowd that comes in on the weekend.
You'll see some amazing carsand bikes and all sorts.
(21:48):
Yeah.
And there's like an abandoned swimmingpool across the street from back in the
(park.).
Yeah. So across the streetis is Peter Strauss park.
It was formally known as Lake Encanto,
which was an amusement park.
There is had the one timethe largest pool west of the
Mississippi, I think. Thatsounds silly, but
(22:10):
I think that's what it was. Andthere was different rides there.
There's an aviary. It's actuallythe story where our peacocks,
we have wild peacocks here.I did see some outside.
They they came from acrossthe street in the sixties when
the park closed down. Theyjust kinda let the birds out.
And the peacocks havebeen here ever since.
(22:30):
Neighbors kind of helped take care of 'em.
So, we're talking 65 years. Thebirds have just been wandering out.
They've been here for a while. Yeah. And.
I heard some donkeys inthe background. Yeah.
Those are our neighbors donkeys. Wegot a lot of fun wildlife up here.
It's definitely kinda living inthe country, at least for L.A,
it's about as country asit gets. There's donkeys.
Country light.
Country light. Yeah. Yeah.
You're not, you're nottoo far from Starbucks.
(22:50):
Not too far. No.
But you feel like you're a world away.
Yeah. Exactly.
There's also a lake not too far from here?
Yeah, it's a residentiallake, Malibu lake.
It's just about a mile down theroad. A lot of cool old history.
They've shot a lot of films thereincluding the original Frankenstein.
Oh, wow.
The Great Dictator. Couple otherthings that I'm forgetting.
(23:14):
They had like a big cat animal
sanctuary where I guess the trainer wouldhave animals for different movies back
in the day.
Yeah. There's,
there's a lot of different films thatwere shot here and a lot of studios out
here. Paramount Ranch is, that's what Ireferred to just now. Paramount Ranch.
That was owned by Paramount and itwas Old Western Lot and set that was
(23:37):
just around the corner.
And then also the old place was usedfor a number of different TV shows and
movies.
So, what does a typical monthlook like schedule wise?
So we will have livemusic every single Friday.
We'll have open mic on thelast Sunday of every month.
And we also have comedy oneof the Saturdays every month.
(23:59):
And we have a singer songwriter nighton one of the Saturdays as well.
Very cool.
So very full schedule every weekend.We'll probably have something going on.
Well, Matt Morris, thank you so muchfor being our guest on this on the Road.
We'd loved having you and learningabout you and Cornell Wine.
Company. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. Be sure to tunein next time for On the Road.
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