April 10, 2023 • 39 mins
Written texts, journal articles, and printed books are not the only way we create and share knowledge in the Humanities. The process of research creation brings together multiple disciplines to explore a more comprehensive understanding of what it means to be human. This episode, we speak with artist and researcher Julie Gemuend, who shares how she is using research creation to explore what it means to be human in the Anthropocene age, including our physical vulnerabilities and responsibilities to other beings.
Julie is a PhD candidate in the Interdisciplinary Humanities program. She has an MFA from Toronto Metropolitan University (formerly Ryerson University) and her work has been exhibited in Canada, the USA and internationally.
This conversation was originally recorded in the spring of 2022.
LinksJulie Gemuend research abstract
"Imprint" at The Image Centre
Interdisciplinary Humanities PhD program
Related Episodes
S2E06 Entangled Humans with Dr. Christine Daigle
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This podcast is financially supported by the Faculty of Humanities at Brock University.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Foreword!
I'm your host Alison Innes, andtoday's episode is one from our vault.
We spoke with Julie Gemuend, an artistresearcher in our interdisciplinary
humanities PhD program, lastsummer, and we're glad to be
bringing you this conversation now.
When you think of research in thehumanities, you might think of printed
(00:21):
papers, books, and journal articles.
But that's only one waywe share our research.
The process of research creation, combinesacademic research with artistic creation.
And can help give us a morecomprehensive understanding of
human experience and knowledge.
Julie shares with us, how sheis using research creation to
explore what it means to be human.
(00:42):
And to think about how art can helpus forge new strategies for living
with each other in our current world.
Our conversation ranges from theAnthropocene and post humanism
to surrealism and automatism.
And if you're not quite sure whatany of those words mean, don't
worry, Julie demystifies them for us.
(01:07):
Welcome to the podcast, Julie.
Thank you.
I'm very pleased tohave you with us today.
Maybe we can just start with youtelling me a little bit about your
research creation project, um, whatit is and kind of what your themes
and, and ideas are that you're,that you're exploring with that.
Okay.
Well, um, why don't I start off withexplaining what a research creation
(01:31):
project is, because I think really before.
Entered the program, Iwasn't even sure myself.
So it's basically an approach togenerating knowledge, not only
through academic research, butin and through creative practice.
So this approach sort of embracescreative practice as a legitimate
(01:53):
form of knowledge production.
The idea here is that there's sort of waysof knowing and doing that grow through.
Experience and practice of artand that offer a different kind
of knowledge, but one that iscomplimentary to academic research.
So I think those of us who are drawnto this approach really believe that.
(02:18):
Art holds the capacity to give voiceto what is unspeakable elsewhere.
Um, and that through this combinationof academic research and artistic
creation, we might be able to uncovera more comprehensive understanding
of our world and our place within it.
(02:41):
So I guess, I mean, research creationprojects can take all sorts of forms.
They typically link the humanitiesand the sciences with art design.
So, you know, you could have someoneresearching in the field of psychology
and producing a work of photographicart and you could have someone working
(03:02):
in biology and sculpture, or in mycase, my work is interdisciplinary.
So I draw on a couple differentdisciplines, um, posthumanism, new
materialism and art history, and.
In conjunction with that, I'llproduce an audio visual installation.
Is there a written component?
(03:22):
There is, yeah.
So.
So I kind of find the separationbetween research and creation
to be a little bit problematic.
Um, the first couple years of theInterdisciplinary Humanities program,
uh, were very much focused on theresearch side of things, and this was
very important for me because my, um,my education up until that point had
(03:47):
been dedicated to studio art practice.
So I didn't really have much inthe way of intensive theoretical
exposure, but it also meant thatI sort of became out of touch with
making art in those first two years.
So this is partly because of theway the program is set up, which,
um, I think is necessary becausenot all students in the program are
(04:11):
pursuing research creation projects.
And it's partly because of my lack, reallylack of experience in academia that I felt
like I had to focus on, um, the researchand that the creation would come later.
So the, the Capstone project, which islike the final project that I'll make my
(04:34):
research creation project that I'll makeand then defend in order to earn my PhD.
It's composed of a 100 to 150 pagewritten scholarly text, so that
would be the dissertation portion.
It's sort of a compressed dissertation.
I think if you follow the sort oftraditional dissertation route,
(04:57):
it's something like 300 to 350 page.
So I'll do a written scholarly textand then, um, also a body of artwork.
But the, the reason that I kind offind it problematic is that for me, I
don't know, the division is a littlebit tricky to navigate because I
want to envision these two componentswithout such defined boundaries.
(05:22):
I sort of want them to overlap andbleed into each other, like to share
blood, like family and I, I've oftenthought about this process, um, like
an ecosystem, you know, where researchimpacts creation and vice versa and back
again, and where sometimes research iscreation or creation is research really
(05:47):
like an entangled web, but as it standsright now, I sort of it feels a little
bit more contained and sequential.
So like, as I was explaining, theresearch comes first and that's followed
by the creation, you know, the end.
But that, that's, that's veryreductive actually, because the
(06:08):
program does have limitations for goodreasons, but it's also very flexible.
So it's really what Imake of it too, right.
So, I'm working onthat, thinking about it.
So what are the questions andthemes that you are looking at
with the research and creation?
So, I, I kind of havethree central questions.
(06:32):
The first is, um, what does it mean tobe human in the age of Anthroposcene?
The second is, uh, what newethical paradigms can be introduced
through the reconceptualizationof bodies as interconnected and
inextricable from the physical world?
(06:53):
And the third is, um, what role canart play in not only learning about
our challenged planet, but in forgingnew strategies for living with others?
And they yet to.
So the first question, whatdoes it mean to be human?
Um, at this time?
I think maybe I'll, I'll definethe anthropo scene first.
(07:15):
So, the Anthroposcene, I sort of see it aslike a, a new chapter in the story of the
earth, which sort of began around 1950.
That date is contested, butlet's say 1950, basically with
a fallout from nuclear bombs.
And the anthroposcene it, it'sboth a scientific concept, right?
(07:38):
It's a geological era, and itconveys the dramatic transformation
of our planet by human activities.
But it's also a human dilemma,one that really throws our
relationship with nature into relief.
So, you know, rapid technologicalintervention along with accelerating
(08:02):
population growth and consumptionover the latter half of the 20th
century, um, have really affectedecosystems at unprecedented scales.
So we have, you know, an industrialagriculture, deforestation,
biodiversity loss, resourceextraction, ocean acidification.
(08:24):
I mean, these are all a result of humanmade or, uh, anthropogenic changes that
have destabilized the earth system.
And they've ushered in a new era, right?
The anthroposcene.
So this question, what does it meanto be human at this particular time?
(08:45):
I think can be answered in so manydifferent ways, but I'll, I'll say
that it means sort of experiencinga sense of power as well as a
sense of powerlessness at once.
So some of the ways we feel empowered,um, technology and globalization have
(09:06):
really made it possible, albeit sometimesirresponsible, uh, to get almost anything
we want here in the Western world, byclick clicking a, you know, a few buttons
on our keyboards, and together we'vereally, we've changed the climate, right?
Um, we've driven species to extinction.
(09:26):
We've acidified the oceanfrom this standpoint humans
have never been more powerful.
But there's also this really kind ofstrong undertow that pulls us in the
opposite direction, which is a, a sense ofthe loss of agency, a kind of impotency.
(09:47):
And the main kind of obstacle,um, to taking action on climate
change seems to be this deep senseof its inevitability and our, our
powerlessness to affect its course.
So we feel this sense of hopelessdefeatism as in like, it's too late.
(10:08):
There's no sense in tryingto make anything better.
Now, this is just one narrative Imentioned that the anthrop scene is a new
chapter in the story of the Earth, butI, I also think that we need to radically
alter the kinds of stories we tell.
I think we need new storylines of kinshipin the present, not just in the past or
(10:31):
in the future, but in the here and now.
Um, stories that can kind of double as.
Maps, um, that can be sort of tracedand followed towards a future that,
um, hopefully avoids impending ruin.
One of my favoritetheorists, Donna Haraway.
For her the future sort of requiresunexpected collaborations and
(10:55):
combinations of making storiesand thus making new worlds.
So the second one was, you know,was about reconceptualizing the body
as interconnected and inextricablefrom the, the world around us.
And I approached this through sortof understanding the skin as a
(11:17):
physical membrane that sheds andreconstitutes itself continually.
So the flesh is conceived of as acontour that's in process all the time.
It's permeable and it's shifting.
So in other words, we let theworld in whether we want to or not.
And so I, I, I address thisvulnerability through Stacey Limo's
(11:41):
concept of transcorporeality.
And this basically emphasizes thehuman body as a site across which, um,
substances and forces are constantlycrossing and by which human beings are
inseparable from the environment youknow, both the natural environment and
the built or, or the manmade environment.
(12:03):
So this means not only are wephysically vulnerable, but we're
also responsible to other beings.
And thinking this way encourages us toreimagine questions of environmental
ethics and en environmentalpractices is deeply personal.
So you know, we have toask ourselves what is safe?
(12:25):
What is not safe?
How do we know?
And this kind of thinking.
Change is how we move around in the world.
Sort of begin to think through thefact that there are myriad like
harmful and also sometimes helpful,uh, invisible substances from
viruses to manufactured chemicals.
(12:46):
So yeah, transcript reality is,it really kind of reveals that the
environment and our material cellsare found up with one another.
Um, in a deeply intimate manner andalso encourages a reconsider, uh,
reconsideration, a reconsiderationof ourselves as complicated,
(13:08):
um, messy entangled beings.
Entangled and our, our listeners, uh,wanting to explore more on the idea of
entanglement, uh, can certainly listento our interview with Christine Daigle,
um, where we talk about posthumanismand entanglement and, dig into that.
Christine is my supervisor, so
there you go.
It's perfect.
Podcast listening.
(13:29):
Yeah, a nice pair.
Okay.
And, and quickly the, the last question.
Um, That my research is centeredaround is, is really about
the role that art can play.
And I, I think I'm gonna reallyaddress this through the, the
idea of defamiliarization.
So this is, um, it's a methodologicalpractice that has been more recently
(13:54):
revived by feminists and post-colonialtheory, but it really comes down to us
originally as one of the central ideasof German and English romanticism.
And, and so defamiliarization,uh, from that point of view really
addresses this kind of pervasiveproblem of conventionalization
(14:16):
which is, can be psychologicallyalienating or anesthetizing.
And um, therefore, romanticistsreally believe that we sort of stood
in need of some sort of aestheticshock to break us out of this
anesthesia, this kind of numbing.
(14:36):
So I'm really interested in usingdefamiliarization as a part of my
methodology because I believe itsapplication not only in creative practice,
but also in critical theory, can help usto draw out the strange in the familiar
and thus sort of break the cycle ofsameness that permeates our modern lives.
(15:00):
So it really kind of encourages usto estange ourselves from dominant
normative visions of self and of theworld that we've become accustomed to.
When I think, I think you know this,this problem of anesthetization
or numbness that we suffer fromhas really metastasized as a,
(15:22):
a kind of gradual forgetting.
Forgetting of who we areand our place in the world.
And so, you know, just to sort ofbring this to a more practical level
perspective taking is one really wonderfulway to achieve defamiliarization.
(15:42):
You know, to kind of shift ourperspectives to see through the eyes of,
of another, and art is of course sucha great vessel for defamiliarization
and you know, it really has the powerto kind of change perspectives and even
restore those numbed zones to feeling.
(16:03):
And also defamiliarization is reallyabout a reorientation of attention.
So where we place our attentionis a choice that we consciously
and, and should carefully make.
So how we choose to think and thethoughts to which we tend, they
really determine the way thatwe engage with the world, right.
(16:27):
So we, when we focus our attention onsomething, initially, well, we're doing
something, but initially we kind ofhold the object of our attention without
comment, without praise or blame, justwith a kind of momentary open care.
And in that moment, a space ofempathy is created and empathy,
(16:51):
like attention it's not somethingthat just sort of happens to us.
It's also a choice that we make,you know, to to pay attention
and to extend ourselves.
So I think this reorientation ofattention, it can really connect
us to others in the world.
And it sparks empathy aswell, which really makes room.
(17:14):
The lived realities of others whosesteps can be just as complex as our own.
This, this feels really timely becauseit feels like what we've seen just in
the news in terms of pandemic responses,the occupation that we saw in Ottawa,
this individualization that we'vebecome more focused on ourselves as
(17:38):
individuals rather than our connections.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, our worldsort of hems us into these places
of individuation, as you say.
I mean, even if we look at social mediaplatforms and the way that algorithms
kind of work to capture our attention inorder to sell us something, and they've
(18:02):
put us into this kind of loop um, sothat what we see in our feeds are based
on the other things that we, we click onand that we like and we interact with.
And it sort of prevents us from a reallyencountering things outside of that realm
that might, you know, change us in, in,in really significant and positive ways.
(18:28):
So, yeah, I, I completelyagree with your sentiment.
One of our professors refers tothat as, uh, our filter bubbles
that we each wind up living in andeverybody's bubble is a little bit
different from everybody else's.
So you mentioned, um, that you'regoing to be doing some audio visual
work as part of the creative process.
(18:49):
So, and I know that you're, you'restill, uh, still early days, I
suppose, you've still got a littleways to go with this project, but
what are you envisioning with it?
If I were to walk into a gallery,what do you think I would see, what
would you want me to experience?
Well, I sort of imagine that it's so amulti-channel audio visual installation.
(19:13):
Which basically means that there willbe a number of projections or screens.
I'm thinking six and, and I'm, yeah.
I'm not entirely sure what kind of otherelements of installation there, there
might be, but I know that video will besort of central, video and sound will be
(19:34):
a central aspect, and what I'm planningto do is, is to work with a number of
participants, or maybe collaboratoris is a better word, collaborators
that sort of might self-identifyas hypersensitive individuals.
And this is a very broad category,so it could be uh, people that have,
(19:59):
you know, environmental allergies.
And then even more extreme, thereare some, there are groups of people
that, uh, identify as environmentallyill or having a condition called
multiple chemical sensitivity.
And this is sort of, like being allergicto the 20th or the 21st century.
(20:21):
People that find it very difficult tonavigate and live in the world with
sort of pesticides being sprayed allover their neighbor's lawns and any kind
of toxicity running through the air.
There's a sort of adjacent conditioncalled sick building syndrome, um, where
people actually feel ill and kind ofallergic to places of work, for example,
(20:45):
which makes life extremely difficult.
So those are some examples.
I also just came across, um,a woman online the other day.
Charlotte King is her name, andshe senses earthquakes in her body.
So she's very sensitive to the vibrationsof the earth, and in fact, she has sort
(21:07):
of connected different geographicallocations to different parts of her
body, like feeling those locationswhere those, the vibrations in those
locations in certain parts of her body.
Um, so these are all examples of the kindof individual that I hope to collaborate
(21:28):
with and the idea is to sort of worktogether for a year or two and sort of
record conversations and explorationsin environments that make them feel both
good and bad, and record video footage.
And then after all this sort of groundworkis done we would then compose a kind of a
(21:52):
narrative, but a narrative in movement ora sort of dance that the participant will
perform and I'll record and, and will alsobe part of the, the final installation.
And, and what I'm hoping is thatthis, all of this work and the
(22:13):
sort of final dance performance.
I, I hesitate to call it adance because I, I, it, I don't
think it'll be very dancey.
It'll sort of be more movement based.
But, um, the kind of hope is that it willameliorate in some ways their condition
or harmonize it or help them to sortof process what's happening to them
(22:37):
and, and, and their place in the world.
That's a pretty long-windedexplanation for someone that doesn't
really know what they're doing yet.
But yeah, that's the gist.
It's very, it's very interesting.
It's very interesting for sure.
So you've mentioned alreadyyour work is interdisciplinary.
Um, it's right there in the titleof the program that you're in.
(22:59):
So what kinds of disciplines, whatkinds of areas do you draw on for this?
We've alluded to Posthumanism interms of interconnection; what bits
and pieces are you pulling together?
Yes, posthumanism is a big one.
Now, posthumanism is, is aphilosophical perspective, right?
(23:20):
Uh, but it's also informed bypost-structuralism, feminism, critical
race studies and technosciencestudies, and it also draws upon
discourses such as animal studies,monster studies, disability studies.
Um, so it's already inherently veryinterdisciplinary, but basically
(23:41):
posthumanism rejects human exceptionalismby calling attention to the ways in
which the human is codependent and alsomutually evolving with animals, uh,
with machines, with the world at large.
It also critiques like the privilegingof reason and rationality and
(24:04):
sort of highlights other ways ofknowing, intuitive ways of knowing,
embodied, subjective ways of knowing.
So rather than seeing the human asa rational being, which tends to
separate the mind from the, fromthe body and also nature, from
culture or the human as universal.
(24:26):
So this idea that the human,the ideal human is male,
white, European, able bodied.
Posthumanism sees the human,um, instead as hybrid.
So it, the human is constituted ofthose very things that were excluded
in the attempt to define the human.
(24:48):
So the animal, um, or the other forposthumanism, the human is really
more of a inclusive entity, um, whoseboundaries with the world are very porous.
And I think actually this,this kind of thinking really
best suits the anthroposcene.
(25:08):
So while posthumanism focuses ondecentering the human, the anthroposcene
marks the impact of human activity onthe planet, and thus, stress is the
urgency of humans to become more awareof their entanglement with ecosystems,
because, of course not when ecosystemsare damaged, that also negatively
(25:32):
affects the human condition, right.
Some of the other, I mean, newmaterialism is, is another, um,
field of study that I draw upon.
It definitely shares an agenda withPosthumanism in so far as they both
seek a repositioning of the humanvia, like, a critical attention to
matter to the vibrancy of matter.
(25:55):
So you know this, this focus that we haveon human ideas, human will, human action.
It really kind of makes therest of the planet seem passive.
But new materialism actually emphasizesthe agencies and activities of matter.
So, for example, say we build aseries of dams to control water,
(26:17):
but the water doesn't alwaysheed to those parameters, right?
The water eventually will do what itwants for whatever reason, and so this
kind of resistance can be seen as theworld pushing back against the idea that
humans are the only entities with agency.
And I suppose we see this withsome of our climate change and some
(26:40):
of the impacts that we're seeingon structures that we've built to
protect us from, from the environment.
Yeah.
You know, matter is like not inertit's not like just these static objects
that we wield our power over KarenBar talks about how matter is your
(27:01):
materials are not just little bitsof passive nature or a blank state.
Materials are always on theirway to sort of transforming
or becoming something else.
And if we pay attention to these, likejust little instances in our lives, right?
Like if you put a waxy, a wax candleon your windowsill in the middle of
(27:25):
summer and it's facing, you know,the south and the sun is beating
it on it all day, that wax candlewill, will change its form, right?
And then I, I mean this one's kindof obvious, like the, the other
discipline that I'll draw on is, um,art history of course, and aesthetics.
And I think the main thing hereis that art history really kind
(27:46):
of helps us to observe, right?
So observe the subjects, objects, conceptsmovements, energies, bodies, and this is
all done by telling stories of looking.
So I think if art history has a role toplay in our age of catastrophic change,
(28:08):
it's in describing and contextualizingthe visual world as it appears right now.
And this kind of involves really operatingin a world of ethics and sensations.
You know, bringing contemporary artisticpractices and histories that enable us
(28:29):
to experience the present in a way that'ssort of attuned to many potential futures.
I'm curious, what hasbrought you to this study?
There's a lot of different strandsand I think you mentioned or alluded
to having a background in art.
How did you wind up herepulling these ideas together?
(28:50):
So yeah, I completed my undergradat Brock actually in visual
arts and English literature.
And then right away I went toRyerson to complete my M F A in a
program called Documentary Media.
I always feel a bit wary ofsharing the name of that program
cuz I feel like it's misleading.
Um, most people immediatelythink that I went to school
(29:12):
to become a documentary film.
And though I suppose I could technicallymake a, a documentary, uh, because of
the training I received at Ryerson,my thesis project, there was a work of
video art, uh, performance-based videoart that I showed in a gallery setting.
So that work was called Imprint.
(29:33):
In fact, it still is calledImprint cuz it's sort of ongoing.
But basically I worked in theSonora Desert in Arizona and I was
basically making these performancesfor the camera, not in front
of an audience, in other words.
And I was imprinting the landscape ondifferent parts of my body on my skin.
(29:56):
And so this really got me thinkingabout interiority and exteriority
and the very porous boundariesof our identities and our bodies.
And so that trajectory has really ledme, um, to the work that I'm doing now.
But really kind of what brought me tothe program at Brock, and though I don't
(30:19):
think I would've been able to articulatethis at the time that I applied, what I'm
really drawn to about interdisciplinarywork is this movement that's at the
heart of it and sort of like a heart theinterdisciplinary scholar has to expand
and, and contract, right, not only acrossdisciplines, but also oscillate between
(30:44):
ways of thinking intuitive and empirical.
And I think really one of themost challenging tasks, uh,
in interdisciplinary work isthe creation of common ground.
And that involves basicallyintegrating insights from various
disciplines to create new knowledge.
And in order to do this, I thinkmovement is very important because the
(31:08):
interdisciplinarian sort of has to shapeshift in a sense to change identities
and, and perspectives and paths whichfosters, you know, new ideas, new
narratives and and possible futures.
And I also think, You know, theworld that we're currently navigating
is a really complex one, right?
(31:30):
It's, it's overwhelming.
I mean, maybe not for everyone, butfor me sometimes it feels like I'm
just sort of stumbling through a webof symbols and images and sounds.
Like material and immaterial forcesthat I can scarcely grasp or understand.
(31:51):
But the appeal of interdisciplinaryresearch is that collaboration
is the rule, right?
It's, it's not the exception.
It demands multiple eyes and ears,hands, sensors, brains like an
automated and manual, digital andanalog machine and human all of.
(32:12):
Come together in order to developa more comprehensive understanding
of the world we live in.
So that kind of approach really appealedand to me, and it, it made sense to me.
So for our listeners who are maybenot familiar with grad school and
certainly with PhD programs, canyou tell us a little bit about the
(32:33):
process of a PhD or specifically ofour interdisciplinary humanities PhD?
What's kind of the, the processof acquiring all this, uh,
knowledge and creativity.
Yeah, I think the very first thing thatone needs to do, even before you apply for
the program is to research the faculty.
Try and meet with a few of them andestablish some connections between
(32:56):
your research interests and ifthere might be, uh, the possibility
of a working relationship there.
That's what I did.
Actually, Christine Daigle was theprogram director at the time that I
was applying, and I went and I had areally generative conversation with her
about the program, about, you know, thedirection I was thinking of pursuing.
(33:18):
And it appeared to me that the programwas really flexible, and especially in
terms of accepting research creationmodes of delivery or the capstone
project could be research creation.
So that was really appealing to.
But yeah, I mean a supervisor, thatsort of should be established before
you even apply because supervisorsreally guide you through the program
(33:40):
and can be integral to your success.
But you know, once you apply andare accepted, there's sort of a
series of milestones and every PhDprogram is structured differently.
But, um, the interdisciplinary humanitiesprogram at Brock basically starts off with
two years of coursework and that all thatcoursework leads to comprehensive exams.
(34:05):
So you have to write two written exams,and then you have one oral exam, and
once you pass those, you basicallymove on to writing your capstone
project proposal, um, that takesplace in year three and it's the phase
that I'm currently working through.
And really once that proposal is, isapproved, you dedicate the remainder
(34:28):
of your PhD to the capstone project,which upon completion you need to
publicly defend um, Well in front of yoursupervisory committee, but also anyone
who would also like to attend the defense.
It's very intensive for obvious reasons.
It's a PhD, right?
So one thing that I really neglectedat during the first two years, and
(34:51):
it took Covid to actually get me incheck, was that I really prioritized my
productivity over everything else andwhen you get into those habits, it can
be really tough to transform that intosomething that's a little more healthy.
So right now I'm really workingon balancing my productivity
(35:15):
and, and my wellbeing, which istricky, but I think, you know,
I'll get the hang of it eventually.
So is there anything that wehaven't talked about that, um,
you'd like us to talk about oryou'd want to go back and explore?
Anything further?
There is kind of one thingthat I, um, that's really
important to my creative process.
(35:36):
So I'm, I'm really interestedin surrealist techniques,
one of which is automatism.
It's a very kind of broad category,but it's basically this idea that it's
an approach to making art that's kindof unconscious, a kind of like doing
without thinking, where the artistkind of enters a space that bars the
(35:59):
intellect or rationality from entering.
I think that in many cases if an artistcan sort of resist the intervention of
intellect, the work sometimes has thechance of transcending the artist's
intentions to sort of be more and do more.
(36:19):
It really draws more onintuition than intellect.
And intuition is really sort ofabout making connections, right?
It, it brings things together, butnot under the rubric of some like
rational universal sameness where,you know, differences separated in
the most extreme, extremely possible.
So binary oppositions, but bykind of conducting difference
(36:44):
into a shared space, into relat.
And this is definitely not aspace that excludes reason.
I think in order to be an effectivepractice using intuition kind
of needs to be counterbalancedwith reason and and logic.
So yeah, I just wanted to sort ofshine a light on intuition as not in
(37:06):
opposition with intellect, but as a kindof complimentary way of thinking like
that can also generate new knowledge.
I think also like kind of allowingyour, your mind to wander beyond those
constraints of rational thinking to loseyour way, so to speak, is also a way to
(37:28):
be fully present and to be fully presentis really, uh, to be capable of being
in uncertainty and being in mystery.
And you know, as we've, we've discussed,we live in in really uncertain times and
we need to figure out a way to be in them.
(37:49):
And I think this kind of thinking ormaybe non-thinking has relevance not
only in the realm of art, but beyondsort of in the, in the realm of being.
Thank you very much foryour, for your time today.
It, it's been lovely tohear about your research.
So we'll keep an eye out fora future project down the road
in, in couple of years, I guess.
(38:10):
Yes.
And please also, if anyone islistening, that sort of self identifies
as a hypersensitive individualand is interested in the project.
I would love it if you would reach out.
Yeah, that would be fantastic.
They can certainly send us a DM onsocial media and we can forward, forward,
uh, that information to you as well.
So thank you so much for your time today.
(38:32):
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks Alison.
Thank you for listening to Foreword.
Find our footnotes links to moreinformation transcripts and past episodes
on our website, Brocku.ca/humanities.
We love to hear from our listeners,so join us on Twitter, Facebook
(38:55):
and Instagram at Brock Humanities.
Please subscribe and rate uson your favorite podcasting app
so you don't miss an episode.
Foreword is hosted and producedby Alison Innes for the Faculty
of Humanities at Brock University.
Forward is hosted and produced byAllison Innes for the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
(39:15):
Sound editing by Serena Atella.
Theme music is by Khalid Imam.
This podcast is financiallysupported by the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
Welcome to Foreword!
I'm your host Alison Innes, andtoday's episode is one from our vault.
We spoke with Julie Gemuend, an artistresearcher in our interdisciplinary
humanities PhD program, lastsummer, and we're glad to be
bringing you this conversation now.
When you think of research in thehumanities, you might think of printed
(00:21):
papers, books, and journal articles.
But that's only one waywe share our research.
The process of research creation, combinesacademic research with artistic creation.
And can help give us a morecomprehensive understanding of
human experience and knowledge.
Julie shares with us, how sheis using research creation to
explore what it means to be human.
(00:42):
And to think about how art can helpus forge new strategies for living
with each other in our current world.
Our conversation ranges from theAnthropocene and post humanism
to surrealism and automatism.
And if you're not quite sure whatany of those words mean, don't
worry, Julie demystifies them for us.
(01:07):
Welcome to the podcast, Julie.
Thank you.
I'm very pleased tohave you with us today.
Maybe we can just start with youtelling me a little bit about your
research creation project, um, whatit is and kind of what your themes
and, and ideas are that you're,that you're exploring with that.
Okay.
Well, um, why don't I start off withexplaining what a research creation
(01:31):
project is, because I think really before.
Entered the program, Iwasn't even sure myself.
So it's basically an approach togenerating knowledge, not only
through academic research, butin and through creative practice.
So this approach sort of embracescreative practice as a legitimate
(01:53):
form of knowledge production.
The idea here is that there's sort of waysof knowing and doing that grow through.
Experience and practice of artand that offer a different kind
of knowledge, but one that iscomplimentary to academic research.
So I think those of us who are drawnto this approach really believe that.
(02:18):
Art holds the capacity to give voiceto what is unspeakable elsewhere.
Um, and that through this combinationof academic research and artistic
creation, we might be able to uncovera more comprehensive understanding
of our world and our place within it.
(02:41):
So I guess, I mean, research creationprojects can take all sorts of forms.
They typically link the humanitiesand the sciences with art design.
So, you know, you could have someoneresearching in the field of psychology
and producing a work of photographicart and you could have someone working
(03:02):
in biology and sculpture, or in mycase, my work is interdisciplinary.
So I draw on a couple differentdisciplines, um, posthumanism, new
materialism and art history, and.
In conjunction with that, I'llproduce an audio visual installation.
Is there a written component?
(03:22):
There is, yeah.
So.
So I kind of find the separationbetween research and creation
to be a little bit problematic.
Um, the first couple years of theInterdisciplinary Humanities program,
uh, were very much focused on theresearch side of things, and this was
very important for me because my, um,my education up until that point had
(03:47):
been dedicated to studio art practice.
So I didn't really have much inthe way of intensive theoretical
exposure, but it also meant thatI sort of became out of touch with
making art in those first two years.
So this is partly because of theway the program is set up, which,
um, I think is necessary becausenot all students in the program are
(04:11):
pursuing research creation projects.
And it's partly because of my lack, reallylack of experience in academia that I felt
like I had to focus on, um, the researchand that the creation would come later.
So the, the Capstone project, which islike the final project that I'll make my
(04:34):
research creation project that I'll makeand then defend in order to earn my PhD.
It's composed of a 100 to 150 pagewritten scholarly text, so that
would be the dissertation portion.
It's sort of a compressed dissertation.
I think if you follow the sort oftraditional dissertation route,
(04:57):
it's something like 300 to 350 page.
So I'll do a written scholarly textand then, um, also a body of artwork.
But the, the reason that I kind offind it problematic is that for me, I
don't know, the division is a littlebit tricky to navigate because I
want to envision these two componentswithout such defined boundaries.
(05:22):
I sort of want them to overlap andbleed into each other, like to share
blood, like family and I, I've oftenthought about this process, um, like
an ecosystem, you know, where researchimpacts creation and vice versa and back
again, and where sometimes research iscreation or creation is research really
(05:47):
like an entangled web, but as it standsright now, I sort of it feels a little
bit more contained and sequential.
So like, as I was explaining, theresearch comes first and that's followed
by the creation, you know, the end.
But that, that's, that's veryreductive actually, because the
(06:08):
program does have limitations for goodreasons, but it's also very flexible.
So it's really what Imake of it too, right.
So, I'm working onthat, thinking about it.
So what are the questions andthemes that you are looking at
with the research and creation?
So, I, I kind of havethree central questions.
(06:32):
The first is, um, what does it mean tobe human in the age of Anthroposcene?
The second is, uh, what newethical paradigms can be introduced
through the reconceptualizationof bodies as interconnected and
inextricable from the physical world?
(06:53):
And the third is, um, what role canart play in not only learning about
our challenged planet, but in forgingnew strategies for living with others?
And they yet to.
So the first question, whatdoes it mean to be human?
Um, at this time?
I think maybe I'll, I'll definethe anthropo scene first.
(07:15):
So, the Anthroposcene, I sort of see it aslike a, a new chapter in the story of the
earth, which sort of began around 1950.
That date is contested, butlet's say 1950, basically with
a fallout from nuclear bombs.
And the anthroposcene it, it'sboth a scientific concept, right?
(07:38):
It's a geological era, and itconveys the dramatic transformation
of our planet by human activities.
But it's also a human dilemma,one that really throws our
relationship with nature into relief.
So, you know, rapid technologicalintervention along with accelerating
(08:02):
population growth and consumptionover the latter half of the 20th
century, um, have really affectedecosystems at unprecedented scales.
So we have, you know, an industrialagriculture, deforestation,
biodiversity loss, resourceextraction, ocean acidification.
(08:24):
I mean, these are all a result of humanmade or, uh, anthropogenic changes that
have destabilized the earth system.
And they've ushered in a new era, right?
The anthroposcene.
So this question, what does it meanto be human at this particular time?
(08:45):
I think can be answered in so manydifferent ways, but I'll, I'll say
that it means sort of experiencinga sense of power as well as a
sense of powerlessness at once.
So some of the ways we feel empowered,um, technology and globalization have
(09:06):
really made it possible, albeit sometimesirresponsible, uh, to get almost anything
we want here in the Western world, byclick clicking a, you know, a few buttons
on our keyboards, and together we'vereally, we've changed the climate, right?
Um, we've driven species to extinction.
(09:26):
We've acidified the oceanfrom this standpoint humans
have never been more powerful.
But there's also this really kind ofstrong undertow that pulls us in the
opposite direction, which is a, a sense ofthe loss of agency, a kind of impotency.
(09:47):
And the main kind of obstacle,um, to taking action on climate
change seems to be this deep senseof its inevitability and our, our
powerlessness to affect its course.
So we feel this sense of hopelessdefeatism as in like, it's too late.
(10:08):
There's no sense in tryingto make anything better.
Now, this is just one narrative Imentioned that the anthrop scene is a new
chapter in the story of the Earth, butI, I also think that we need to radically
alter the kinds of stories we tell.
I think we need new storylines of kinshipin the present, not just in the past or
(10:31):
in the future, but in the here and now.
Um, stories that can kind of double as.
Maps, um, that can be sort of tracedand followed towards a future that,
um, hopefully avoids impending ruin.
One of my favoritetheorists, Donna Haraway.
For her the future sort of requiresunexpected collaborations and
(10:55):
combinations of making storiesand thus making new worlds.
So the second one was, you know,was about reconceptualizing the body
as interconnected and inextricablefrom the, the world around us.
And I approached this through sortof understanding the skin as a
(11:17):
physical membrane that sheds andreconstitutes itself continually.
So the flesh is conceived of as acontour that's in process all the time.
It's permeable and it's shifting.
So in other words, we let theworld in whether we want to or not.
And so I, I, I address thisvulnerability through Stacey Limo's
(11:41):
concept of transcorporeality.
And this basically emphasizes thehuman body as a site across which, um,
substances and forces are constantlycrossing and by which human beings are
inseparable from the environment youknow, both the natural environment and
the built or, or the manmade environment.
(12:03):
So this means not only are wephysically vulnerable, but we're
also responsible to other beings.
And thinking this way encourages us toreimagine questions of environmental
ethics and en environmentalpractices is deeply personal.
So you know, we have toask ourselves what is safe?
(12:25):
What is not safe?
How do we know?
And this kind of thinking.
Change is how we move around in the world.
Sort of begin to think through thefact that there are myriad like
harmful and also sometimes helpful,uh, invisible substances from
viruses to manufactured chemicals.
(12:46):
So yeah, transcript reality is,it really kind of reveals that the
environment and our material cellsare found up with one another.
Um, in a deeply intimate manner andalso encourages a reconsider, uh,
reconsideration, a reconsiderationof ourselves as complicated,
(13:08):
um, messy entangled beings.
Entangled and our, our listeners, uh,wanting to explore more on the idea of
entanglement, uh, can certainly listento our interview with Christine Daigle,
um, where we talk about posthumanismand entanglement and, dig into that.
Christine is my supervisor, so
there you go.
It's perfect.
Podcast listening.
(13:29):
Yeah, a nice pair.
Okay.
And, and quickly the, the last question.
Um, That my research is centeredaround is, is really about
the role that art can play.
And I, I think I'm gonna reallyaddress this through the, the
idea of defamiliarization.
So this is, um, it's a methodologicalpractice that has been more recently
(13:54):
revived by feminists and post-colonialtheory, but it really comes down to us
originally as one of the central ideasof German and English romanticism.
And, and so defamiliarization,uh, from that point of view really
addresses this kind of pervasiveproblem of conventionalization
(14:16):
which is, can be psychologicallyalienating or anesthetizing.
And um, therefore, romanticistsreally believe that we sort of stood
in need of some sort of aestheticshock to break us out of this
anesthesia, this kind of numbing.
(14:36):
So I'm really interested in usingdefamiliarization as a part of my
methodology because I believe itsapplication not only in creative practice,
but also in critical theory, can help usto draw out the strange in the familiar
and thus sort of break the cycle ofsameness that permeates our modern lives.
(15:00):
So it really kind of encourages usto estange ourselves from dominant
normative visions of self and of theworld that we've become accustomed to.
When I think, I think you know this,this problem of anesthetization
or numbness that we suffer fromhas really metastasized as a,
(15:22):
a kind of gradual forgetting.
Forgetting of who we areand our place in the world.
And so, you know, just to sort ofbring this to a more practical level
perspective taking is one really wonderfulway to achieve defamiliarization.
(15:42):
You know, to kind of shift ourperspectives to see through the eyes of,
of another, and art is of course sucha great vessel for defamiliarization
and you know, it really has the powerto kind of change perspectives and even
restore those numbed zones to feeling.
(16:03):
And also defamiliarization is reallyabout a reorientation of attention.
So where we place our attentionis a choice that we consciously
and, and should carefully make.
So how we choose to think and thethoughts to which we tend, they
really determine the way thatwe engage with the world, right.
(16:27):
So we, when we focus our attention onsomething, initially, well, we're doing
something, but initially we kind ofhold the object of our attention without
comment, without praise or blame, justwith a kind of momentary open care.
And in that moment, a space ofempathy is created and empathy,
(16:51):
like attention it's not somethingthat just sort of happens to us.
It's also a choice that we make,you know, to to pay attention
and to extend ourselves.
So I think this reorientation ofattention, it can really connect
us to others in the world.
And it sparks empathy aswell, which really makes room.
(17:14):
The lived realities of others whosesteps can be just as complex as our own.
This, this feels really timely becauseit feels like what we've seen just in
the news in terms of pandemic responses,the occupation that we saw in Ottawa,
this individualization that we'vebecome more focused on ourselves as
(17:38):
individuals rather than our connections.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, our worldsort of hems us into these places
of individuation, as you say.
I mean, even if we look at social mediaplatforms and the way that algorithms
kind of work to capture our attention inorder to sell us something, and they've
(18:02):
put us into this kind of loop um, sothat what we see in our feeds are based
on the other things that we, we click onand that we like and we interact with.
And it sort of prevents us from a reallyencountering things outside of that realm
that might, you know, change us in, in,in really significant and positive ways.
(18:28):
So, yeah, I, I completelyagree with your sentiment.
One of our professors refers tothat as, uh, our filter bubbles
that we each wind up living in andeverybody's bubble is a little bit
different from everybody else's.
So you mentioned, um, that you'regoing to be doing some audio visual
work as part of the creative process.
(18:49):
So, and I know that you're, you'restill, uh, still early days, I
suppose, you've still got a littleways to go with this project, but
what are you envisioning with it?
If I were to walk into a gallery,what do you think I would see, what
would you want me to experience?
Well, I sort of imagine that it's so amulti-channel audio visual installation.
(19:13):
Which basically means that there willbe a number of projections or screens.
I'm thinking six and, and I'm, yeah.
I'm not entirely sure what kind of otherelements of installation there, there
might be, but I know that video will besort of central, video and sound will be
(19:34):
a central aspect, and what I'm planningto do is, is to work with a number of
participants, or maybe collaboratoris is a better word, collaborators
that sort of might self-identifyas hypersensitive individuals.
And this is a very broad category,so it could be uh, people that have,
(19:59):
you know, environmental allergies.
And then even more extreme, thereare some, there are groups of people
that, uh, identify as environmentallyill or having a condition called
multiple chemical sensitivity.
And this is sort of, like being allergicto the 20th or the 21st century.
(20:21):
People that find it very difficult tonavigate and live in the world with
sort of pesticides being sprayed allover their neighbor's lawns and any kind
of toxicity running through the air.
There's a sort of adjacent conditioncalled sick building syndrome, um, where
people actually feel ill and kind ofallergic to places of work, for example,
(20:45):
which makes life extremely difficult.
So those are some examples.
I also just came across, um,a woman online the other day.
Charlotte King is her name, andshe senses earthquakes in her body.
So she's very sensitive to the vibrationsof the earth, and in fact, she has sort
(21:07):
of connected different geographicallocations to different parts of her
body, like feeling those locationswhere those, the vibrations in those
locations in certain parts of her body.
Um, so these are all examples of the kindof individual that I hope to collaborate
(21:28):
with and the idea is to sort of worktogether for a year or two and sort of
record conversations and explorationsin environments that make them feel both
good and bad, and record video footage.
And then after all this sort of groundworkis done we would then compose a kind of a
(21:52):
narrative, but a narrative in movement ora sort of dance that the participant will
perform and I'll record and, and will alsobe part of the, the final installation.
And, and what I'm hoping is thatthis, all of this work and the
(22:13):
sort of final dance performance.
I, I hesitate to call it adance because I, I, it, I don't
think it'll be very dancey.
It'll sort of be more movement based.
But, um, the kind of hope is that it willameliorate in some ways their condition
or harmonize it or help them to sortof process what's happening to them
(22:37):
and, and, and their place in the world.
That's a pretty long-windedexplanation for someone that doesn't
really know what they're doing yet.
But yeah, that's the gist.
It's very, it's very interesting.
It's very interesting for sure.
So you've mentioned alreadyyour work is interdisciplinary.
Um, it's right there in the titleof the program that you're in.
(22:59):
So what kinds of disciplines, whatkinds of areas do you draw on for this?
We've alluded to Posthumanism interms of interconnection; what bits
and pieces are you pulling together?
Yes, posthumanism is a big one.
Now, posthumanism is, is aphilosophical perspective, right?
(23:20):
Uh, but it's also informed bypost-structuralism, feminism, critical
race studies and technosciencestudies, and it also draws upon
discourses such as animal studies,monster studies, disability studies.
Um, so it's already inherently veryinterdisciplinary, but basically
(23:41):
posthumanism rejects human exceptionalismby calling attention to the ways in
which the human is codependent and alsomutually evolving with animals, uh,
with machines, with the world at large.
It also critiques like the privilegingof reason and rationality and
(24:04):
sort of highlights other ways ofknowing, intuitive ways of knowing,
embodied, subjective ways of knowing.
So rather than seeing the human asa rational being, which tends to
separate the mind from the, fromthe body and also nature, from
culture or the human as universal.
(24:26):
So this idea that the human,the ideal human is male,
white, European, able bodied.
Posthumanism sees the human,um, instead as hybrid.
So it, the human is constituted ofthose very things that were excluded
in the attempt to define the human.
(24:48):
So the animal, um, or the other forposthumanism, the human is really
more of a inclusive entity, um, whoseboundaries with the world are very porous.
And I think actually this,this kind of thinking really
best suits the anthroposcene.
(25:08):
So while posthumanism focuses ondecentering the human, the anthroposcene
marks the impact of human activity onthe planet, and thus, stress is the
urgency of humans to become more awareof their entanglement with ecosystems,
because, of course not when ecosystemsare damaged, that also negatively
(25:32):
affects the human condition, right.
Some of the other, I mean, newmaterialism is, is another, um,
field of study that I draw upon.
It definitely shares an agenda withPosthumanism in so far as they both
seek a repositioning of the humanvia, like, a critical attention to
matter to the vibrancy of matter.
(25:55):
So you know this, this focus that we haveon human ideas, human will, human action.
It really kind of makes therest of the planet seem passive.
But new materialism actually emphasizesthe agencies and activities of matter.
So, for example, say we build aseries of dams to control water,
(26:17):
but the water doesn't alwaysheed to those parameters, right?
The water eventually will do what itwants for whatever reason, and so this
kind of resistance can be seen as theworld pushing back against the idea that
humans are the only entities with agency.
And I suppose we see this withsome of our climate change and some
(26:40):
of the impacts that we're seeingon structures that we've built to
protect us from, from the environment.
Yeah.
You know, matter is like not inertit's not like just these static objects
that we wield our power over KarenBar talks about how matter is your
(27:01):
materials are not just little bitsof passive nature or a blank state.
Materials are always on theirway to sort of transforming
or becoming something else.
And if we pay attention to these, likejust little instances in our lives, right?
Like if you put a waxy, a wax candleon your windowsill in the middle of
(27:25):
summer and it's facing, you know,the south and the sun is beating
it on it all day, that wax candlewill, will change its form, right?
And then I, I mean this one's kindof obvious, like the, the other
discipline that I'll draw on is, um,art history of course, and aesthetics.
And I think the main thing hereis that art history really kind
(27:46):
of helps us to observe, right?
So observe the subjects, objects, conceptsmovements, energies, bodies, and this is
all done by telling stories of looking.
So I think if art history has a role toplay in our age of catastrophic change,
(28:08):
it's in describing and contextualizingthe visual world as it appears right now.
And this kind of involves really operatingin a world of ethics and sensations.
You know, bringing contemporary artisticpractices and histories that enable us
(28:29):
to experience the present in a way that'ssort of attuned to many potential futures.
I'm curious, what hasbrought you to this study?
There's a lot of different strandsand I think you mentioned or alluded
to having a background in art.
How did you wind up herepulling these ideas together?
(28:50):
So yeah, I completed my undergradat Brock actually in visual
arts and English literature.
And then right away I went toRyerson to complete my M F A in a
program called Documentary Media.
I always feel a bit wary ofsharing the name of that program
cuz I feel like it's misleading.
Um, most people immediatelythink that I went to school
(29:12):
to become a documentary film.
And though I suppose I could technicallymake a, a documentary, uh, because of
the training I received at Ryerson,my thesis project, there was a work of
video art, uh, performance-based videoart that I showed in a gallery setting.
So that work was called Imprint.
(29:33):
In fact, it still is calledImprint cuz it's sort of ongoing.
But basically I worked in theSonora Desert in Arizona and I was
basically making these performancesfor the camera, not in front
of an audience, in other words.
And I was imprinting the landscape ondifferent parts of my body on my skin.
(29:56):
And so this really got me thinkingabout interiority and exteriority
and the very porous boundariesof our identities and our bodies.
And so that trajectory has really ledme, um, to the work that I'm doing now.
But really kind of what brought me tothe program at Brock, and though I don't
(30:19):
think I would've been able to articulatethis at the time that I applied, what I'm
really drawn to about interdisciplinarywork is this movement that's at the
heart of it and sort of like a heart theinterdisciplinary scholar has to expand
and, and contract, right, not only acrossdisciplines, but also oscillate between
(30:44):
ways of thinking intuitive and empirical.
And I think really one of themost challenging tasks, uh,
in interdisciplinary work isthe creation of common ground.
And that involves basicallyintegrating insights from various
disciplines to create new knowledge.
And in order to do this, I thinkmovement is very important because the
(31:08):
interdisciplinarian sort of has to shapeshift in a sense to change identities
and, and perspectives and paths whichfosters, you know, new ideas, new
narratives and and possible futures.
And I also think, You know, theworld that we're currently navigating
is a really complex one, right?
(31:30):
It's, it's overwhelming.
I mean, maybe not for everyone, butfor me sometimes it feels like I'm
just sort of stumbling through a webof symbols and images and sounds.
Like material and immaterial forcesthat I can scarcely grasp or understand.
(31:51):
But the appeal of interdisciplinaryresearch is that collaboration
is the rule, right?
It's, it's not the exception.
It demands multiple eyes and ears,hands, sensors, brains like an
automated and manual, digital andanalog machine and human all of.
(32:12):
Come together in order to developa more comprehensive understanding
of the world we live in.
So that kind of approach really appealedand to me, and it, it made sense to me.
So for our listeners who are maybenot familiar with grad school and
certainly with PhD programs, canyou tell us a little bit about the
(32:33):
process of a PhD or specifically ofour interdisciplinary humanities PhD?
What's kind of the, the processof acquiring all this, uh,
knowledge and creativity.
Yeah, I think the very first thing thatone needs to do, even before you apply for
the program is to research the faculty.
Try and meet with a few of them andestablish some connections between
(32:56):
your research interests and ifthere might be, uh, the possibility
of a working relationship there.
That's what I did.
Actually, Christine Daigle was theprogram director at the time that I
was applying, and I went and I had areally generative conversation with her
about the program, about, you know, thedirection I was thinking of pursuing.
(33:18):
And it appeared to me that the programwas really flexible, and especially in
terms of accepting research creationmodes of delivery or the capstone
project could be research creation.
So that was really appealing to.
But yeah, I mean a supervisor, thatsort of should be established before
you even apply because supervisorsreally guide you through the program
(33:40):
and can be integral to your success.
But you know, once you apply andare accepted, there's sort of a
series of milestones and every PhDprogram is structured differently.
But, um, the interdisciplinary humanitiesprogram at Brock basically starts off with
two years of coursework and that all thatcoursework leads to comprehensive exams.
(34:05):
So you have to write two written exams,and then you have one oral exam, and
once you pass those, you basicallymove on to writing your capstone
project proposal, um, that takesplace in year three and it's the phase
that I'm currently working through.
And really once that proposal is, isapproved, you dedicate the remainder
(34:28):
of your PhD to the capstone project,which upon completion you need to
publicly defend um, Well in front of yoursupervisory committee, but also anyone
who would also like to attend the defense.
It's very intensive for obvious reasons.
It's a PhD, right?
So one thing that I really neglectedat during the first two years, and
(34:51):
it took Covid to actually get me incheck, was that I really prioritized my
productivity over everything else andwhen you get into those habits, it can
be really tough to transform that intosomething that's a little more healthy.
So right now I'm really workingon balancing my productivity
(35:15):
and, and my wellbeing, which istricky, but I think, you know,
I'll get the hang of it eventually.
So is there anything that wehaven't talked about that, um,
you'd like us to talk about oryou'd want to go back and explore?
Anything further?
There is kind of one thingthat I, um, that's really
important to my creative process.
(35:36):
So I'm, I'm really interestedin surrealist techniques,
one of which is automatism.
It's a very kind of broad category,but it's basically this idea that it's
an approach to making art that's kindof unconscious, a kind of like doing
without thinking, where the artistkind of enters a space that bars the
(35:59):
intellect or rationality from entering.
I think that in many cases if an artistcan sort of resist the intervention of
intellect, the work sometimes has thechance of transcending the artist's
intentions to sort of be more and do more.
(36:19):
It really draws more onintuition than intellect.
And intuition is really sort ofabout making connections, right?
It, it brings things together, butnot under the rubric of some like
rational universal sameness where,you know, differences separated in
the most extreme, extremely possible.
So binary oppositions, but bykind of conducting difference
(36:44):
into a shared space, into relat.
And this is definitely not aspace that excludes reason.
I think in order to be an effectivepractice using intuition kind
of needs to be counterbalancedwith reason and and logic.
So yeah, I just wanted to sort ofshine a light on intuition as not in
(37:06):
opposition with intellect, but as a kindof complimentary way of thinking like
that can also generate new knowledge.
I think also like kind of allowingyour, your mind to wander beyond those
constraints of rational thinking to loseyour way, so to speak, is also a way to
(37:28):
be fully present and to be fully presentis really, uh, to be capable of being
in uncertainty and being in mystery.
And you know, as we've, we've discussed,we live in in really uncertain times and
we need to figure out a way to be in them.
(37:49):
And I think this kind of thinking ormaybe non-thinking has relevance not
only in the realm of art, but beyondsort of in the, in the realm of being.
Thank you very much foryour, for your time today.
It, it's been lovely tohear about your research.
So we'll keep an eye out fora future project down the road
in, in couple of years, I guess.
(38:10):
Yes.
And please also, if anyone islistening, that sort of self identifies
as a hypersensitive individualand is interested in the project.
I would love it if you would reach out.
Yeah, that would be fantastic.
They can certainly send us a DM onsocial media and we can forward, forward,
uh, that information to you as well.
So thank you so much for your time today.
(38:32):
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks Alison.
Thank you for listening to Foreword.
Find our footnotes links to moreinformation transcripts and past episodes
on our website, Brocku.ca/humanities.
We love to hear from our listeners,so join us on Twitter, Facebook
(38:55):
and Instagram at Brock Humanities.
Please subscribe and rate uson your favorite podcasting app
so you don't miss an episode.
Foreword is hosted and producedby Alison Innes for the Faculty
of Humanities at Brock University.
Forward is hosted and produced byAllison Innes for the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
(39:15):
Sound editing by Serena Atella.
Theme music is by Khalid Imam.
This podcast is financiallysupported by the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
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