January 17, 2024 • 52 mins
Nick Cooper's music career has taken him around the world and back since he graduated with a Bachelor of Music in 2017. He joins us this episode to share where his music career has taken him and the joys and challenges he found along the way.
Links
@Nick_Cooper_Music (Instagram)
Related Episodes
S2E01 Decolonizing Music with Nina Penner
Credits
Thank you for listening to Foreword!
Episode subtitles can be viewed when listening on Podbean. Printable transcripts available by request. Find past episodes on our website brocku.ca/humanities.
We love to hear from our listeners! Join us on Twitter and Instagram @brockhumanities.
Please subscribe and rate us on your favourite podcasting app so you don’t miss an episode.
Foreword is hosted and produced by Alison Innes for the Faculty of Humanities at Brock University.
Series five sound editing is by Serena Atallah. Theme music is by Khalid Imam.
This podcast is financially supported by the Faculty of Humanities at Brock University.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to Forward.
I'm your host, Alison Innes.
Today I'd like to introduceyou to one of our music grads.
I first met Nick Cooper while hewas still a busy undergraduate
student here at Brock, playingin various bands and ensembles.
Nick graduated from Brock with aBachelor of Music degree in 2017, and
since then, his music career has takenhim around the globe and back again.
(00:25):
And I just learned recently that he's justfinished releasing his first solo album.
I caught up with Nick to ask him abouthis time at Brock, his experiences since
graduating, and what he's up to now.
Sit back and enjoy our conversation.
Alright, well welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much, Allison.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So
I remember you and I first spoke,I think when I just started working
(00:46):
in, uh, in the faculty of Humanities.
And you were still an undergrad student.
I think you were maybe your fourthyear and you had just had been
on a really interesting adventureplaying in an orchestra in Sicily.
I think you were playing oboe.
That's right.
Excellent.
So, if I can take you back to,that would have been in 2016, 2017?
(01:07):
That's right.
Around then?
All right.
So if I can take you back to yourstudent days and we'll kind of start
there, start our conversation there,what was it like being a, being a
music student here at Brock and whatkind of adventures did you get up to?
Sure.
Absolutely.
Uh, so yeah, I, I would have graduated.
University in 2017, whichmeans that I would have started
(01:29):
in 2013, September, 2013.
And I got kind of the best of both worlds,I think, because When I first started,
it was still part of the main campus.
In my second year, they'd announcedthat they would be opening the
Maryland Eye Walker, and thenI literally got half and half.
I got the other halfin Maryland Eye Walker.
(01:49):
And I say the best of both worldsbecause there was, although it was, um,
a relatively small area that was, thatwas sort of, what's the word I'm looking
for, designated to the music department.
And I, my theory is that that Uh,created a kind of closeness, a tight
knit community of musicians and,and music students and faculty.
(02:12):
I finished high school.
I was the only one in my year in highschool that had graduated and decided
to pursue music post secondary.
The only one out of probablyaround a hundred students.
And so I was, I felt likeI was finally swimming.
In, in the waters I should have beenswimming in the whole time, I, I finally
met people who wanted to pursue music,uh, not just for fun, but because, you
(02:37):
know, it meant so much to them as well.
And, um, So that was, those weresort of my first impression.
There were, there were so many, butmy first impression really was that
it was finally where I longed to be.
It's finally where I meant to be, um, uh,among people who care about music as much
as I did, who loved music as much as Idid, and that I had, clearly, I had, um,
(03:01):
you know, professors in all subjects thatwere just, they just inspired me so much.
Uh, and it, and it.
So, the fire lit in me until the very end.
That's fantastic to hear.
So, as a high school student,um, when you were looking at
programs, what was it about, aboutBrock, um, and the music program?
(03:21):
Um, like, were you local to St.
Catharines?
Did you come from further away?
When, what, uh, what attractedyou to come here or to stay
here, as the case might be?
Right.
Um.
So, I am a Niagara local, originally.
I grew up in Niagara Falls, which is,uh, it was always 20 minutes away to get
to, to Brock, before they moved downtown.
Uh, it was always a bus ride away.
(03:43):
So that was, of course, a factor.
But, you know, you, you grew up inthe same place and, and part of you
wants to, your, your feet want to move.
You, you, you sort of want to trysomething new and start a new chapter.
So there was, of course, a, abeckoning within me to try to go
somewhere else and do somethingcompletely, uh, out of left field.
(04:03):
So I, I did, uh, audition at a fewother universities, uh, for, for music
and, and some of them had, you know,renowned programs and, and, and whatnot.
And, but the thing that really changedmy, my My mind, the thing that helped
me make up my mind, I should say,because I wasn't dead set on any one.
(04:26):
In fact, it was a very difficultdecision, and maybe someone listening
to the podcast at the moment is, isgoing from grade 12 to university, and
they're trying to struggle with thedecision as well, and I, I feel you.
It's very, very difficult, especially ifyou've got a few options in front of you.
I, of course, had sort of run down thelist of the pros and cons of each one, and
still, I couldn't flip a coin and decide.
(04:47):
The thing that really.
Uh, brought me to Brock was myoboe professor, uh, his name is
Colin Meyer, and it was the chairat the time, she's still the
chair of the music department, Dr.
Karen DeBella, uh, had found Colin,uh, because she had noticed that in
her potential, you know, upcomingyear, there was an oboist coming
(05:08):
and they had no oboe, uh, teacher.
So she found Colin and, um, I remember.
I had some emails back and forth withsome of the Oboe professors at the
other schools, nothing extraordinary,but Colin reached out and, um, we had
maybe a three hour conversation overthe phone, complete strangers, talking
(05:29):
everything Oboe, all of my questions,concerns, he answered everything, and
still to this day, um, if, if I'm an openminded musician, it's because of him.
If, if I am able to, uh, approach amusical, situation, any musical context,
without any rigidity, with an open mind.
It's because of his approach and, um,and, and really, uh, Colin was, was the
(05:55):
deciding factor for me, knowing that uh, Ihad such an amazing professor, someone so
attentive, someone who would hear me out.
And that is, of course, anextension of Overall, again, Dr.
K's ability to find the best personfor the job and, and, and having that,
um, flexibility on the departmentside was, uh, was ultimately
(06:15):
what, what brought me to Brock.
So when you come into a music program,like, is that the only instrument you
study or do you have to learn other?
Other instruments along the way.
Do you have to, are you learningfrom other, um, other professors
as well as your oboe instructor?
Like how, how does
that work?
Well, that's a wonderful question.
So you've got, um, your lessons one onone with your teacher, uh, an hour a week.
(06:39):
And if I'm not mistaken, I believethe music program still has it.
They just introduced itin my, uh, third year.
It was a performance stream.
There's an education stream, amusicology or a theory stream, but
now there's a performance stream.
Um, That if, if you qualify,you get a little bit more time
with your professor every week.
(07:00):
I think it maybe goes up to two hoursof a week or something like that, or
maybe even more, it might have changed.
Um, but one thing that, again, to go backto my theme of, of how Brock helped me
in so many different regards, is thatbecause it's such a tight knit program,
there's so much focus not just on theindividual student, but on the individual
(07:21):
classes and everything that's going on.
Um, you as a student have the sky's limit.
The opportunity is there for youand, and the support is there because
again, you're, you're surrounded by,uh, students who are like minded and,
and staff who are, who are runningall of these different aspects of the
program, whether it be wind ensemble orchoir, jazz band, as an OBOE student.
(07:45):
Um, if I want to sing in choirin most other universities, that
is usually reserved for vocalmajors and usually it's packed.
And unless I am doing a double major invocal studies or I'm just a phenomenal
singer, odds are that place is taken.
But I think the Brock MusicProgram's approach produces
wonderfully well rounded musicians.
(08:07):
Um, in that when, you know, ifyou want to go into performance,
you've worn so many hats.
That, you know, you, you are avery viable, uh, professional.
You, you, you can, uh,be implied in, in choir.
You can run a choir if, if you, um,if that's what you'd like to do.
(08:28):
If you want to go into education,you've, you've, you've touched
so many different aspects.
of being a musician, of loving musicin general, of being a music educator
or teacher or professor, that, um, youbring that to everything that you do,
and, uh, and it, It's infectious, um,and so again, I, I feel that that's
(08:51):
something that Brock really, really hasgoing for it, is that, um, all of these
options are really open to everyone.
They're free to everyone.
And in fact, uh, I was obligatory,like we, we had to be in choir
and it's the best thing you cando because at the end of the day,
uh, I keep, it keeps coming back.
Um, I hear instrumentalists talkingabout how they're trying to mimic the
(09:15):
voice, trying to sound like a vocalist.
Everyone is trying to sound like a sopranoor a tenor or a bass or a baritone, trying
to find their voice on their instrument.
Meanwhile,
all right.
So, so what otherinstruments did you study?
And so oboe was your main instrument.
What other instruments did you delve into?
Develop a liking for maybe or so
(09:35):
the oboe was not my first instrument.
It was my last my first.
Yeah My first instrument was thedrums I started when I was about four
or five on the drums And I've beenplaying in bands since I was a kid.
I picked up the guitar Um, inmiddle school sometime and then
the bass shortly after that.
Uh, the piano when I was young as wellaround the time I started the drums.
(09:56):
So, but I realized when I wasfinishing high school that I had
to go to university for something.
And there was no rock and roll program.
I had to go, you know, and,and study, study something.
Uh, classically.
And so that's why the oboecame through that way.
But the love that I had for allkinds of other music, uh, outside
(10:16):
of classical music, I was ableto continue with all of that.
Um, because again, I was surroundedby so many new musicians and everyone
wanted to start new projects.
And, uh, I was part of a band that formedin my first year and we played for years.
Uh, we were a seven piece funk bandand we, we had the time of our lives
playing and that was outside of school.
(10:36):
So again, There's something to besaid about the connections that you,
of course, it's all, really all aboutthat is the people that you, that
you come to know, you get friend,uh, you, um, you become friends with
and you get to know, I should say.
And, uh, and then, you know, you makemusic together and that lasts forever.
So those other instruments, um,were all really done outside of
(10:58):
class, but something that's beenindispensable for me were the wind.
woodwind techniques and brass techniquescourses because I am now a full time
music and French teacher and I cantalk also about my experience in the
French department at Brock as well.
I would be happy to touch on that.
Um, but, uh, nothing really couldhave prepared me better, uh, for
(11:21):
the Uh, myriad of questions thatinevitably sprout up when you give,
uh, a classroom full of eighth graderstheir first woodwind, brass, and
percussion instruments to start band.
It, then nothing can prepare you more.
So I, um, I, I was really lucky to havethose, uh, in my back pocket and, and
(11:42):
everything comes back super quickly.
The, the courses were excellent.
And then of course conducting techniques.
Um, but as far as the other instrumentswere concerned, again, it's sort of like.
In, in school or in, in university,you have your courses, which are
centered towards your main instrument.
You have choir, um, you have anensemble outside of that, that
(12:04):
you can apply yourself in, whetherthat's twin ensemble or jazz band
or, or there's also the strings now.
So for all the string players, uh, there'sa string orchestra, which is phenomenal.
And, um, so.
As far as mixing it up and going withother instruments, a lot of that, you
can reach out, uh, to the jazz band andsay, Hey, if you're looking for, uh,
(12:28):
another rhythm section player on an offday, I would love to play bass or, you
know, everyone's always looking for subs.
And so, again, sort of working yourway into the community very naturally,
very easily, uh, through the programis, is a forte, I think, uh, a really,
um, a really important aspect of it.
Um, and.
You know, getting together with yourfriends after class or on the weekends
(12:52):
to jam, to write, to compose, that's,that's what it's all about too, for sure.
So I do want to, um, come back tostudying French and, and, uh, now
your perhaps bravery in teaching youngchildren how to play instruments.
Um, but I want to get, um,ask you about that Sicily.
(13:14):
Um, and some of the, uh, some of theopportunities that you had to, um, travel
and learn outside of the university.
Okay.
So it really did all start with that.
It was between my third and fourth years.
In my third year, I performed ajoint recital with a guitarist named
Brody Smith, and it was 45 minutes.
(13:35):
And, uh, for me and maybe an hour orso for Brody, if I'm not mistaken,
with an intermission in between weplayed Gabriel's Oboe as the, you
know, the finale and anyway, itwas, it's my performance level had
never been higher to that point.
I memorized.
My program, uh, which is something thatColin was really encouraging on and he
(13:57):
showed me so much because it's, it'snot mandatory, but it, it's helped me
so much as a musician to practice thatmuscle, uh, memory, the memory, uh,
uh, capacity of, of learning music.
But he also, my teacher, that is Colinhad, um, recommended to me that over
the course of the year, as I'm workingon my repertoire, record myself just.
(14:21):
Turn my iPad camera on, and when I'm donemy, my session, turn, turn the camera
on, and play the last version of it.
The best version you can at theend of that practice session.
And, you know, uh, it's, it's,there's no better teacher than that.
You know, it's so awful hearingyourself in all of your, because in
(14:41):
your head you can, it's sort of likeyou said at the beginning, you know,
hearing your voice recorded back,some people just can't stand it, it's
like, you know, nails on a chalkboard.
When you hear yourself recordedback there, there's no filter.
There's really no There's no buffer.
So you hear everything's but you know,that's exactly why You want to do it and
(15:02):
I understand his point now better thanever is so that you can hear yourself
So that you can adjust you can makethose mental adjustments before you
go back into practice next next timethe following day or whatever so Over
the year I'd amassed this collectionof snippets, of little recordings of
different things that I'd been doing.
(15:22):
The recital happens in March, I finish myexams in May, or April, maybe early May.
And, uh, I'd applied to this festival,that was going to be happening all
summer long, from June until August.
And I'd forgot about it, because I, Ithought, you know what, I'm, I'm If this
is open to everyone, why would I get it?
(15:44):
I, I just, you know, I, Iknew that I was working.
It wasn't self defeating.
I just thought, you know,maybe the, you know.
I just didn't want to get my hopesup, I think, because really I
was just sort of hedging my bets.
And so, I'm eating a bowl of cerealone morning and I get an email from
the director, the coordinator of thefestival, the founder, saying we've
(16:04):
had an emergency oboe situation.
Our oboist that we'veselected has pulled out.
Basically, first conference served,if you can Get back to me, you're it.
Write back as quickly as I can, asrespectfully, you know, I sign off.
And he says, Great, can I hear you?
Oh my gosh, I don't have anything.
And then I remembered that those monthsof accrued, uh, you know, videos I just
(16:27):
had to quickly skim through, find thebest one I could, send it off, because
by this point I'd taken a break fromthe oboe after my recital, I'm rusty, I
couldn't just, you know, the nerves, so Isent that off and that's what got me in.
So, um, I didn't tell anyone,I called my mom right away.
Of course, I called my dad and I, Ididn't tell too many people until right
(16:50):
before I left because I, I couldn't,it felt like it couldn't be true.
Um, I thought that was being scammedor something, but no, I went and, um,
I, it's hard to put into words theimportance of, of what that festival was.
There were people fromall around the world.
And so I got to bring.
(17:12):
What I had in my littlebackpack of experience.
to this festival and just,uh, unpack it and live off the
supplies that I had within it.
Whatever tools I had available to methat had been equipped by my experiences,
um, were, were how I, I was to survive.
And it really was, it, it, atmoments it did feel like that.
(17:34):
It was very intense.
Uh, it was the most intense, mostrigorous, uh, uh, um, rehearsal schedule
I'd ever experienced up until that point.
Um.
My, my wife and I arenow married, of course.
We've been married, uh, going onfive years now, and, uh, and we
have two girls at home now, too.
(17:54):
So, this festival changed thecourse of my life musically and,
of course, in every other way.
It sounds like it was avery intense experience.
Did you feel like you wereable to hold your own?
Did you feel like you kind of had todraw on from, from what you had learned,
um, at Brock to kind of hold your own?
I think I might have been, Theyoungest, if not one of the
(18:14):
youngest people at the festival,not just, it was an opera festival.
So there was sort of like the, everyonewas living under the same roof, literally.
Like it was a massive, likestudent residence building that
we rehearsed in and we ate in.
We all had our dormitories and, andwe, you know, the, the, it was magical.
(18:35):
And most people, if I'm notmistaken, were either finished their
undergrad or studying their master's.
Um, and had much more professionalexperience, uh, than I did.
Um, and I didn't take this as a,as anything that was discouraging.
In fact, it, it allowedme to learn from everyone.
(18:56):
Understanding that everyone hadmore experience, um, meant that
I could learn something fromeveryone, a lot from everyone.
And, and I, I improved.
Um, over the course of the three weeksthat it took to rehearse, I had to, I
just had to, I was the only oboe player.
(19:16):
Um, and there were a few firstrehearsals that were pretty rough
because they were, they were prettydemanding for where I was at the time.
Um, but I, I really, I worked at it alot because it was all, it was all that
you could really do other than spendtime with your, with your new friends.
You know, it was just basically you,your instrument, the internet connection.
(19:38):
There was only really wifi in the lobby,so you couldn't just on your phone or
watching Netflix, whatever, which wouldhave been a crime anyway, uh, to, to
waste the opportunity to, you know, I,anyway, it was, it was like I'd gone
back in time before I was so relianton the internet and, and I could really
focus on getting as good as I can, as Icould, uh, the, the music that I had to.
(20:03):
play as quickly as possible.
So Brock, in terms of what I hadand how prepared I was, again, I
have to take my hat off to my oboeprofessor, most of all, because of
course I was there to play the oboe.
And if, if I had a teacher who wouldrecommend that, Oh, do you not feel
a hundred percent ready for this?
(20:23):
Then don't do it.
Don't do it until you feela hundred percent ready.
Uh, I, I would have said no, or I wouldhave never applied in the first place.
Um, Colin's approach was always.
Say yes, and work for it.
Work up to it.
Um, you will attain itif you have that goal.
And he, he's been righttime and time again.
(20:45):
Um, and, and this was perfect.
The proof was in the pudding for this.
You know, by the time I was done,these, these operas that Traviata
by, um, by Verdi, and then twopieces, two operas by Puccini,
Sua Angelica, and Gianni Schicchi.
And for three weeks, werehearsed, uh, five days a week.
(21:08):
Um, by the end, it was morelike seven days a week.
We'd wake up in the morning, startrehearsal at about nine, uh, go
until noon, have lunch, be back bytwo, rehearse till six, have dinner.
Wake up, repeat.
And it was, it was very, very demandingcompared to the, the, the playing
(21:29):
schedule that I had before, which was,you know, working my way up to that.
And again, I, I prepared arecital up until that point.
So, um, that's something that Idid definitely, uh, benefit from,
uh, in the Brock program was the.
Um, and again, if there are any studentsthat are considering, should I, should
I not, of course, of course you should,if you're nervous about playing.
(21:53):
Ah, I've got to mention somethingelse that Brock has, which is a
masterclass, routine masterclass.
Um, a lot of other programs will havea very specific masterclass just to the
instrument, which is, of course, uh,wonderful in and of itself, or maybe
they'll only reserve masterclassesfor, uh, Um, for when, uh, you know,
(22:15):
a soloist comes through to playwith the home symphony orchestra.
Okay, so, just as a non music person,um, how is a masterclass different from
a regular class with your professor?
So a masterclass, um, typicallyspeaking, say if you have a violin
masterclass, You will have a masterviolin player, air quotes, which would
(22:37):
mean a, uh, professional soloist,usually, uh, come in and, uh, specialize
in the teaching of the violin.
Um, and it's not a one on one lesson.
That would be, of course, a lesson, buta masterclass is open to other people.
It's, uh, you can be aspectator in a masterclass.
(22:57):
Uh, in fact, that's sort of the, thedefining element of a masterclass
is that it's like an open.
an open lesson where basically, uh, anda master class can last hours and hours
and hours, or it can just be, you know,an hour long or, or two hours long, right.
And with no break.
Um, and so usually you'll have,you know, a soloist come, uh, or
(23:20):
a professional in the field comeand listen to a few students.
Maybe the student will choosea movement from a piece, a
sonata that they're working on.
And.
Uh, then there's another student thatcomes up afterwards and is working on
a concerto and you sort of, you know,go through these different, uh, folks,
and it takes a lot of bravery to get upthere as a student, uh, because you're
(23:44):
not just playing one on one with, withyour teacher, you're playing for someone
that again, maybe it's just comingthrough the, the, the city for, to play
the exact concerto you're learning,or, you know, it can be very daunting.
And on top of that, You'replaying in front of violinists,
other violinists, right?
(24:05):
So they're looking at you in a waythat a normal audience would never
be able to look at you because theyare looking, they're analyzing your
technique, your musicality, yourphrasing, your articulation, everything.
They know the piece just as well as you.
Uh, but you know, a masterclassis not to tear anyone down.
It's in fact, everyone in the audienceis there and understands that it
(24:28):
takes immense courage to get up.
So, so it's not, it's, you know,if you can get over all of that,
you know, um, more power to you.
You should definitely lookfor masterclasses wherever you
are, whenever they come up.
But what makes Brock's masterclassesdifferent is that basically it is a
professor who is an instrumentalistin their own right, who has all
(24:51):
of the instrumentalists together.
So, Me as an oboe player, I would bein the same group with the violinists
and cellists, as well as the clarinetand flute and saxophone and percussion
players, all of us together.
Right.
So sort of, uh, uh, a charcuterie boardof influence of, of instrumentation
(25:13):
of all kinds of pieces and eras.
And just like you get exposed to somuch music in just a year's time,
because It's very easy to get very,um, obsessed, absorbed in the world
of just violin playing or justharp playing or whatever it is.
(25:33):
Um, but being, being in thisenvironment, you, you are exposed
to what every other instrument.
is concerned about.
What every other instrument is working on.
The technical difficulties.
You learn to respect the learning curve.
Everyone's different learning curve.
You see where they're at.
You get to watch them week after week.
You know, all of your, your, your,and it's, it's not just first
(25:55):
year or second year masterclass.
It's for the entire department, anyonewho's playing an instrument that is not
piano, which has its own masterclass orvoice, which has its own masterclass.
You're an instrumental masterclass.
And you're again, it's verybeneficial for your ears.
I would say for your, for your mind again,to, uh, getting it used to listening
(26:16):
to all kinds of different, uh, uh,classical music, uh, and jazz influenced
music as well, uh, especially with thesaxophones is the experience that I had.
Uh, that leading up to going to Sicilyand really being on my own for the
first time musically ever, um, uh.
All of the performance opportunities,even the non oboe ones, I was able to
(26:41):
bring my experiences with me to be ableto navigate the intricacies of getting
used to playing with a whole new group ofpeople, an entirely different repertoire.
Uh, in a totally differentforeign setting and, um.
One more question, um, about Sicilythen, so aside from your wife, obviously,
(27:02):
have there been other connections thatyou made, um, that you have carried
forward from, from that, uh, experience?
Right, so the Concertmaster, who,uh, for those of you who may not be,
um, uh, uh, music majors or who maybehave heard the term in passing, the
Concertmaster is the first, first violin.
(27:23):
It's in.
Just to the left of the conductor,uh, the, the concert master is, um,
uh, sort of co pilot of the orchestra.
They, they, they help with, uh,all the, the string notations.
They, they, they, they really dolead the entire string section.
The concert master of theMediterranean Opera Studio Festival
(27:44):
Orchestra, when I went, myself andmy wife, uh, at the time, we had.
Uh, gotten very close with him.
He was from Spain and, uh, he washilarious and we spent a lot of time
together, uh, along with a bassist that,uh, that my wife knew at the time too.
And so the four of us got toknow each other very well.
It turns out in Spain, he puts on.
(28:08):
festivals.
He helps put on other festivals.
And so that was an immense connectionfor Ruth and I, because we were able
to, the following summer, um, we wereable to go to Spain and to Portugal to
play at two different festivals overthere, one in Marvao, Portugal, and
the other one in, um, in a town calledValencia de la Alcántara in In Valencia,
(28:32):
I think most people probably know aboutValencia or where it might be in Spain.
And it was just incredible, uh, gettingto play with, with again, different
orchestras, uh, different, uh, repertoireentirely, um, and, uh, and getting
to see a little bit more of Europe.
I was just, I'm still enamored by,uh, by, by that time in my life.
(28:54):
It still feels too good to be true.
It was just incredible.
Um, so.
That was a major connection, uh, that wasmade and then, uh, I should also mention
too that we didn't just go over for thefestivals, but, uh, the summer was spent
playing in Portugal and in Spain and thenwe, uh, my wife and I moved to France for
a year where she did a master's degreein, in, uh, uh, creative entrepreneurship
(29:20):
and marketing and the creative economies,uh, uh, was the official title.
As a violinist that was indispensable,she now works at the National Arts
Center here in Ottawa, where we live now.
We live in the Gatineau, Ottawa area.
Um, and so that came back around.
But that's where I picked up on my French.
(29:41):
Uh, that's where I really, really,um, uh, beefed up on, on my ability
to speak and write and communicatein all different ways in French.
And I studied at aconservatory over there.
So again, those connectionshelped us, uh, leap.
Over the pond and, and, uh, and learna thousand times more, just the, you
(30:03):
know, more than just those six weeks,just, uh, really, really life changing.
And then aside from that, to, to,to continue down that same path,
uh, there was a piano player thatwe met in Spain who had studied
at the Moscow conservatory.
And she knew about a festivalthat was happening in Sochi, which
is where the Winter Olympics hadhappened just a few years prior.
(30:26):
And they were looking for an oboeplayer, and she passed my information
along, and so I got to play in, inRussia for, Uh, a festival that lasted
about two weeks before heading back to
France.
Yeah, so, um, so you were just doingFrench, French electives, um, but that
gave you enough grounding that when itcame time to go to France, you were, you
were brave enough to say, yes, let's go.
(30:46):
Yeah.
And, uh, a lot like.
Uh, you know, being thrown to thewolves, uh, so to speak with, uh, my
musical experience in, uh, in Sicily,uh, and everything since then really,
you know, the university programs, Iwas going to say school, but the, the,
the programs themselves had preparedme, um, to be able to, you know, face
(31:09):
the culture with a kind of awareness.
Um, for, for, for what was,you know, for what awaited.
So when I was in France, I, um,I was teaching a little bit like
private tutoring, English tutoring.
And, uh, most importantly, I was playingin a community wind ensemble there.
(31:30):
Uh, and they were fantastic.
Um, and I was studying ata conservatory there too.
And no one, at no point intime was I speaking English.
And you rely on yourexperience to get you there.
So what led you to being a teacher?
What is it about, about teaching youngpeople music that keeps you motivated?
Um, and, what's, what's the secret?
(31:52):
Uh,
coffee.
I say coffee facetiously, but,uh, in all honesty, I think.
You sort of have to likementally gear yourself up.
You have to, you, youcannot be on a slow gear.
You have to be very attentivebecause it's like playing.
I don't know how to, you have to bebouncing around so fast between this
(32:15):
issue, that issue, especially at first.
But every, ideally every singletime you have the same class and the
instruments go back out to everyone,it gets a little bit less urgent.
On everyone's behalf, everyonefeels a little bit more at ease.
It's being adaptable.
Uh, having some mold, having somepreconceived notion of this is how it's
(32:37):
gotta be, this is how it's going to go.
Uh, maybe that works a little bit lateron once you've got a lot of experience
and you see that there's like this.
Lane that everyone can sort of, uh, fitinto, but I personally, my philosophy
doesn't align with that at all.
You think you can fit into that, uh,or, you know, if you want to take
it a totally different direction,all these things are available.
(33:00):
But again, just, um, again, my,my, my teacher Colin, just the,
the philosophy of remaining openminded, uh, and having your default
be yes and not no, uh, is, is just.
A theme that just keeps, uh, cropping up,I find in, in, in every, in every respect.
So in addition to teaching, you've alsobeen very busy with songwriting and, uh,
(33:24):
for our listeners, um, Nick came backto my attention when an email landed in
my inbox earlier this summer, or maybeeven back in the spring, um, about a new.
Um, I want to say CD, but I'm not sureif that's even the right language anymore
to use, um, a new album, I guess that,um, that you have been, um, slowly
(33:47):
working at putting, putting together.
So let's talk about it.
Tell me all about this album, how itcame to be, what you're trying to do with
it and, um, where people can find it.
So, uh, it unfortunately doesn'texist in CD format yet, but
I'm working on it just for you.
Okay.
Just for us old people.
Um, but, uh, I would love toget an album, uh, like a vinyl
(34:10):
pressing of it too, eventually.
Right now it's streaming.
I always say anywhere you listen toyour music, you'll find it there.
Um, and so it's a, it's basically justa collection of nine songs that, uh, I,
some of, some of which have been sittingon for a while, some of which are.
Very new and have been written during myrecent adventures and reflect all of it.
(34:35):
It's sort of a um It's it's it's acombination of different things and there
You know when I wanted to record thisalbum, I should mention that it i've
been writing songs Long way longer thani've been playing oboe Uh way way longer.
It's been something that i've beendoing since I was very very young I
remember I used to write songs witha friend of mine in middle school.
(34:57):
I was in grade eight and We'd call eachother over the phone, uh, like the, the
landline before anyone had a cell phone.
And I'd say, Oh, listen,Alex, check this out.
Listen.
And then we'd play for each otherand, Oh, how would this go with this?
You know, and, and.
I've been doing this for a long,or rather I've been wanting
to record for a long time.
(35:19):
I remember, uh, every year in universitytelling myself, this is the summer.
I've got all the free time.
I can do it this summer.
I can do it.
And it just never came to befor one reason or another.
And so finally, I
think it was those tripsto Sicily and Europe.
I feel like that might'vegot very worthwhile.
Very worth.
That's, that's a verygood reason to postpone a
project.
(35:40):
And so now Uh, you know, I feel asthough things in my personal and
professional life are, uh, establishedenough now that I can pursue this,
uh, and, and finally get it out.
And thankfully.
It's, it's, it's come to be.
So the nine songs are, the, the, the,the theme of the album, the overarching
(36:05):
idea was that I wanted to sort ofintroduce, reintroduce myself because
up until now, again, most of my.
Uh, professional life as a musician hasbeen, uh, as a freelance oboist or as,
um, a guitar player or a session playerfor bands that needed, uh, someone to
(36:26):
sit in for some gigs or, or to play ona patio somewhere and do some covers,
which, you know, is great and all, butit wasn't always really what my heart
was into the latter, not the former.
I always loved the oboe playing.
Um, but finally.
I wanted to sort of say, okay, this.
This is what I really, really want to do.
(36:47):
This is what I have to get off my chest.
A lot of these songs are very personal.
They can be autobiographical orthey can just be observational.
But, um, the nine songs, what they allhave in common is I sat down with, uh,
the list of songs that I have available.
I have.
I have at least another twoalbums ready to, to record, but
I haven't recorded them yet.
(37:07):
I have a, a wealth of songs, thankfully,but I sat down and thought to myself, what
are the ones, what are the songs whereI can play all the instruments myself?
I thought to myself, um, eachone of these songs are unique.
They, they, they all have their owngenre, even they span different genres.
Uh, but the continuity ofthe album is that it's.
(37:30):
I wanted to play allthe instruments myself.
And my theory was that, um, therewould be a feeling that would sort of,
uh, emanate from the tracks, from thefeeling of the tracks that, um, that
would have a continuity throughout them.
And, and it would be something sortof subliminal in the sense that it
feels like it's always the same personbecause it is, I, I, I played, uh, all
(37:54):
the, like the, the main tracks on allof the al uh, uh, on all of the, the.
The producer is also aBaroque music graduate.
His name is Fergus Gundy.
Um, and he added, uh, you know, thekeyboards and he mixed things beautifully.
His voice is found on the record too,percussion, lots of different stuff to,
(38:16):
um, to, to sort of conclude the albumand make it what, what it came to be.
Um, so the nine songs are.
Sort of, um, a testament towhat my life has been so far.
And again, a reintroduction to Okay.
I'm not just what you thought I was,I, I'd like to let you know that
(38:38):
I, I have the other things to say.
I have, I actually havesomething to say and, uh, and
I wanted to reintroduce myself.
And the album is called Without Love.
Sorry, the last track is called WithoutLove, the album is called World in
Vain.
World in Vain, okay, thankyou for clarifying that.
Um, and we can find thison YouTube, Spotify?
(38:58):
That's right, yeah.
Okay, so, um, you mentioned this delayin the project, and it's kind of funny,
I was just having this conversationwith somebody else, how sometimes you
try to do something and it doesn't goforward, and then a year or two later,
everything falls into place for you.
Did you find that kind of that period ofpercolation or maturation of your ideas?
Did that benefit the album in the end?
(39:20):
Do you think it would have been avery different album if you had done
it in university when you initiallyhad that idea and desire to do it?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I, uh, I realized I had to wait, youknow, it, it, It came to be for for a
specific reason at a specific time Uh,if I had done it earlier, i'm sure it
would have been it would have been youknow It would have been good, but it
(39:44):
would have been very different and um,it would have been the best I could
do That's all you know, and um I thinka lot of people struggle, and I think
I struggled with it too at the time.
You're only as ready as youcan be at any given time.
And it's for any artistic endeavor.
If you're worried about, oh, thisisn't good enough, that's not,
that's not where it should be.
That's a, yes, fair enough.
(40:05):
But do the best you can.
It's better to do it, uh, as best you can.
And maybe it's not exactly You knowwhat you have in your head just yet.
It's better that it exists than itthen it never sees the light of day
That's beautiful.
Um, just as you were speaking I wasjust thinking about my own experience
with podcasting and how you know Ilook back when I started podcasting and
(40:29):
and compared to what I do and how I doapproach it and what not now and and
and I suppose music is, is, is a littlebit similar in that, in that you have to
put it out there for it to get better.
Like, it's a bit of apublic experimentation.
Right.
Exactly.
It, it, and, and now I realizethat's exactly what it is.
(40:51):
I, it, it's, it's not anything if it'sjust for you, if it's just in your own
head, you know, it, it, it, it is, itcan console, it can, uh, it can excite.
If it's only for you at the moment, right?
It's a project is very exciting.
Uh, uh, as a prospect, but once, onceyou've actually done everything to
(41:14):
make it come true, and then it actuallyis out there, um, you know, you're,
you're open to all kinds of new thingsthat you were never open to before.
And it is actually, I found itvery freeing because it's out.
It's done.
I did it.
I don't have to worry aboutwill I ever do it's done.
(41:35):
And if I've done itonce, I can do it again.
So, um, I will absolutely recordanother album in due time.
I it's, it's just finished now,so I'm not, I'm in no rush.
To head back to, to get that, youknow, anything new done just yet.
But, um, but again, it's, it's, it'salso like there might be someone who
(41:56):
needs to hear it, you know, um, likewhatever your song is about, you know,
the, the, the person that needs to hearthe message or the person that really,
really loves the song and really feels it.
You know, they, they don't care thatyou haven't got that perfect fill there
yet, or they don't, you know, they'renot, they're not going to, in fact, they
might enjoy how quirky the little mistakewas if it's, you know what I'm saying?
(42:21):
And because at the end of the day,it's funny, uh, I, I, it's a lot
like teaching too, because it'ssort of like in your endeavor to.
Get as good as you possibly can, uh,studying music or any form of art.
Uh, you, you sort of like you'rescaling a mountain, right?
(42:41):
You, you know, you, you stop, you, youset up camp, you start the next day.
And sometimes, you know, you, you have tofind another way around, but anyway, you,
you make your way up to a certain height.
And then to, to ask, to teach from thebeginning, it's sort of like turning
around and telling someone how yougot that high up, and maybe you don't
(43:02):
remember exactly how you got overthis particular difficult spot or,
you know, it's, it's really taxing,but, um, you know, at the end of the
day, most people are not musicians.
The vast majority of your listenerswill not be musicians, even if all your
friends are musicians and, and the peopleyou're making music with are musicians.
(43:22):
You sort of have to always be intouch with what does this sound like
if I don't know anything about whatI've put into doing this, which is
like absurd because you put so mucheffort into the construction of it,
into the architecture of it, intothe, the, the meaning of it for you.
Maybe, you know, maybe,maybe I'm going to.
(43:44):
far down or far in, but, um, I thinka lot of, uh, writers of any kind or
artists of any kind, they, they'revery intentional and, and they use
again, all that experience, but at theend of the day, you're making it for
people who don't have any experience.
So you have to sort of be intouch with that almost childlike
(44:04):
Misunderstanding of your intentions and
yeah, that's, that's really interesting.
Um, and, and, and I think that's goodadvice maybe for, for any kind of creative
work, whether it's, you know, um, artisticor performance or writing or whatever it
is that when, when we're doing somethingcreative and putting ourselves out there
and when we're training in it, um, Ithink sometimes we, we can maybe have a
(44:30):
tendency, um, to be really self criticalof what we're doing, but to be able
to kind of step back and to see it asour audience, whoever that audience is
to see it or hear it as that audience.
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
So, as an artist, as a musicalartist, what kind of, like,
how, how do you deal with.
(44:52):
Because, you're performing, you'resharing creativity, you're sharing
something very personal, and then you'regetting feedback from people you admire,
um, from professors, from audience.
From newspaper critics, you know,whoever from from yourself, maybe as
well, um, how do you kind of balancethat and keep keep that creative
(45:16):
momentum going forward, um, while,dealing sometimes perhaps with negative
feedback or criticism or perspectiveson your work that aren't quite what you
wanted to hear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a wonderful question.
That's a very important question too.
I would also lump in, uh,disappointment, silent disappointment.
(45:37):
You know, if, if you, if you expectyour song to, uh, reach a certain
audience or, or you're expectingthat it's going to lead you to this,
you know, X, Y, Z, whatever it maybe, whatever you have in your mind.
And it doesn't automatically do that.
That is, you know, it, it can also be kindof sour, you know, but, um, I, I would,
I would say that the most important.
(45:59):
thing is to try to keep yourself in checkand in tune with your own intentions and
the reminding yourself of what the yourbest is being honest with yourself about
that if you're being False if you feellike you're pretending or you're writing
for some Someone or something some ideathat you have of oh if I say this it'll
(46:23):
come off like that, you know being tooToo self critical is not a good thing,
but at the same time, it's also absolutelyessential to keep yourself in check.
But I suppose it's about being awareof the voice that's telling you,
this feels right, this feels good.
Because if it feels right and it feelsgood to you, um, before you put it
(46:49):
out to the world, you know that it'scoming from an honest place and that
any criticism, uh, of it, Uh, it's,it's not, it transcends personal
because you're not, it felt right andmaybe there's no explanation for that.
You can't explain why you, youthought that it should go like
this or it should go like that.
(47:11):
It just, it, it is what it is and,and you did the best you could.
And if, if anyone doesn't, uh, like it.
If it's not of their taste,it's, it's, uh, it's absurd
to expect everyone to like it.
You know, you, you, you know, youcan take what you can from it.
You know, if it's an honest criticismand it's, it's fair, then, you know,
(47:33):
you can listen to it and go, ah,okay, I see that maybe this, uh, this
lyric here was kind of, I don't know.
Uh, I don't know what you could sayabout it or, you know, maybe this is
too repetitive or this is too that.
You, you sort of, um, you, Iguess what you have to do is to
(47:53):
be aware of your decision makingand be comfortable with it, right?
Like, um, you know, know whatyour options are and then proceed.
So, so what I'm hearing in whatyou're saying really is, genuine
authenticity, and a personal integrity.
Yeah, being, uh, as corny as it is beingtrue to oneself, like, and I, I don't
(48:17):
want to say that because it's sort of,you know, when you hear something often
enough, it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Yeah, the word authenticity is kind ofone of those words because we hear it
so much in social media contexts andwhatnot that it starts to kind of lose its
meaning.
Yeah, it's potency for sure.
So I'm trying to sort of likewalk around the point and try to
(48:39):
get to the heart of it that way.
And just saying that, um, If it feelsas right as it can to you, negative
criticism is, is someone's opinion,which is entirely valid, but, um,
but you did what felt right and you,you, that, that's all you can do.
How can you possibly changewhat, what you felt was right?
(49:01):
You know, if, if, you know, andalso the cool thing about it is
it's not like, um, uh, a form ofart that is just stagnant, right?
Like the recording.
Yes.
But the, the good news is I can always,if I, if I absolutely cannot stand a
recording, I can just take it down,you know, but I personally, I don't.
Believe in doing that sort of thingbecause it's it's it documents a moment
(49:24):
in time a moment in your life Any anymusician that that puts something up
is documenting that moment in time?
What and and whatever it?
represents Is it's encapsulated in themusic and so I don't believe in taking
it down necessarily, but, uh, you know,and I don't think I will ever do that.
(49:49):
In fact, I don't know why I mentionedit, but I'm just saying it's an option.
But the other option is to that,you know, every time I perform
the song, I can do it differently.
You know, I don't ever want to playthe same thing exactly the same
twice, you know, um, and that'sthe fun of it is that, you know,
if I want to change this part.
I can, you know, it's, it's stillputty in my hands and it's still music.
(50:11):
It's still free and, um, and I can still,you know, change it according to what
I feel is right then, you know, I didit so it felt right at the time I did
the best I could and maybe it changes,maybe it doesn't, maybe it always feels
right to do it that way, you know,um, and, uh, and, and I often find.
(50:34):
People are, if really people are, areactually in the state of mind to accept
something new such as a new song thatthey've never heard before, um, oftentimes
it's It's an experience that peoplecan walk away from and, and feel happy
that they, they stayed, happy that theylistened, happy that they, you know,
(50:55):
they took the time to, to hear you out.
And that's really what they're doingis they're, they're hearing you out
because you had to say something.
And, uh, and that means the world reallybecause people's time, people's attention.
Uh, is, is so, so, um, so valuable.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Well, speaking of time, I'mgoing to thank you for your time.
, I really appreciate the honesty and,the passion, um, that you have shared
(51:20):
with us today and your words of wisdom.
As well, you've given methings to, think about.
And I am very excited to seewhat happens, um, for you next.
Certainly get in touch whenthe next album comes out.
And, um, I wish you all the best.
And thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you.
Likewise, Alison.
(51:41):
Thank you for listening to Forward.
Find our footnotes, links to moreinformation, transcripts, and past
episodes on our website, BrockU.
ca slash humanities.
We love to hear from our listeners,so join us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at Brock Humanities.
Please subscribe and rate us onyour favourite podcasting app
(52:01):
so you don't miss an episode.
Forward is hosted and produced byAllison Innes for the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
Sound editing is by Serena Attella,and theme music is by Calla Damam.
This podcast is financiallysupported by the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
Welcome to Forward.
I'm your host, Alison Innes.
Today I'd like to introduceyou to one of our music grads.
I first met Nick Cooper while hewas still a busy undergraduate
student here at Brock, playingin various bands and ensembles.
Nick graduated from Brock with aBachelor of Music degree in 2017, and
since then, his music career has takenhim around the globe and back again.
(00:25):
And I just learned recently that he's justfinished releasing his first solo album.
I caught up with Nick to ask him abouthis time at Brock, his experiences since
graduating, and what he's up to now.
Sit back and enjoy our conversation.
Alright, well welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much, Allison.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So
I remember you and I first spoke,I think when I just started working
(00:46):
in, uh, in the faculty of Humanities.
And you were still an undergrad student.
I think you were maybe your fourthyear and you had just had been
on a really interesting adventureplaying in an orchestra in Sicily.
I think you were playing oboe.
That's right.
Excellent.
So, if I can take you back to,that would have been in 2016, 2017?
(01:07):
That's right.
Around then?
All right.
So if I can take you back to yourstudent days and we'll kind of start
there, start our conversation there,what was it like being a, being a
music student here at Brock and whatkind of adventures did you get up to?
Sure.
Absolutely.
Uh, so yeah, I, I would have graduated.
University in 2017, whichmeans that I would have started
(01:29):
in 2013, September, 2013.
And I got kind of the best of both worlds,I think, because When I first started,
it was still part of the main campus.
In my second year, they'd announcedthat they would be opening the
Maryland Eye Walker, and thenI literally got half and half.
I got the other halfin Maryland Eye Walker.
(01:49):
And I say the best of both worldsbecause there was, although it was, um,
a relatively small area that was, thatwas sort of, what's the word I'm looking
for, designated to the music department.
And I, my theory is that that Uh,created a kind of closeness, a tight
knit community of musicians and,and music students and faculty.
(02:12):
I finished high school.
I was the only one in my year in highschool that had graduated and decided
to pursue music post secondary.
The only one out of probablyaround a hundred students.
And so I was, I felt likeI was finally swimming.
In, in the waters I should have beenswimming in the whole time, I, I finally
met people who wanted to pursue music,uh, not just for fun, but because, you
(02:37):
know, it meant so much to them as well.
And, um, So that was, those weresort of my first impression.
There were, there were so many, butmy first impression really was that
it was finally where I longed to be.
It's finally where I meant to be, um, uh,among people who care about music as much
as I did, who loved music as much as Idid, and that I had, clearly, I had, um,
(03:01):
you know, professors in all subjects thatwere just, they just inspired me so much.
Uh, and it, and it.
So, the fire lit in me until the very end.
That's fantastic to hear.
So, as a high school student,um, when you were looking at
programs, what was it about, aboutBrock, um, and the music program?
(03:21):
Um, like, were you local to St.
Catharines?
Did you come from further away?
When, what, uh, what attractedyou to come here or to stay
here, as the case might be?
Right.
Um.
So, I am a Niagara local, originally.
I grew up in Niagara Falls, which is,uh, it was always 20 minutes away to get
to, to Brock, before they moved downtown.
Uh, it was always a bus ride away.
(03:43):
So that was, of course, a factor.
But, you know, you, you grew up inthe same place and, and part of you
wants to, your, your feet want to move.
You, you, you sort of want to trysomething new and start a new chapter.
So there was, of course, a, abeckoning within me to try to go
somewhere else and do somethingcompletely, uh, out of left field.
(04:03):
So I, I did, uh, audition at a fewother universities, uh, for, for music
and, and some of them had, you know,renowned programs and, and, and whatnot.
And, but the thing that really changedmy, my My mind, the thing that helped
me make up my mind, I should say,because I wasn't dead set on any one.
(04:26):
In fact, it was a very difficultdecision, and maybe someone listening
to the podcast at the moment is, isgoing from grade 12 to university, and
they're trying to struggle with thedecision as well, and I, I feel you.
It's very, very difficult, especially ifyou've got a few options in front of you.
I, of course, had sort of run down thelist of the pros and cons of each one, and
still, I couldn't flip a coin and decide.
(04:47):
The thing that really.
Uh, brought me to Brock was myoboe professor, uh, his name is
Colin Meyer, and it was the chairat the time, she's still the
chair of the music department, Dr.
Karen DeBella, uh, had found Colin,uh, because she had noticed that in
her potential, you know, upcomingyear, there was an oboist coming
(05:08):
and they had no oboe, uh, teacher.
So she found Colin and, um, I remember.
I had some emails back and forth withsome of the Oboe professors at the
other schools, nothing extraordinary,but Colin reached out and, um, we had
maybe a three hour conversation overthe phone, complete strangers, talking
(05:29):
everything Oboe, all of my questions,concerns, he answered everything, and
still to this day, um, if, if I'm an openminded musician, it's because of him.
If, if I am able to, uh, approach amusical, situation, any musical context,
without any rigidity, with an open mind.
It's because of his approach and, um,and, and really, uh, Colin was, was the
(05:55):
deciding factor for me, knowing that uh, Ihad such an amazing professor, someone so
attentive, someone who would hear me out.
And that is, of course, anextension of Overall, again, Dr.
K's ability to find the best personfor the job and, and, and having that,
um, flexibility on the departmentside was, uh, was ultimately
(06:15):
what, what brought me to Brock.
So when you come into a music program,like, is that the only instrument you
study or do you have to learn other?
Other instruments along the way.
Do you have to, are you learningfrom other, um, other professors
as well as your oboe instructor?
Like how, how does
that work?
Well, that's a wonderful question.
So you've got, um, your lessons one onone with your teacher, uh, an hour a week.
(06:39):
And if I'm not mistaken, I believethe music program still has it.
They just introduced itin my, uh, third year.
It was a performance stream.
There's an education stream, amusicology or a theory stream, but
now there's a performance stream.
Um, That if, if you qualify,you get a little bit more time
with your professor every week.
(07:00):
I think it maybe goes up to two hoursof a week or something like that, or
maybe even more, it might have changed.
Um, but one thing that, again, to go backto my theme of, of how Brock helped me
in so many different regards, is thatbecause it's such a tight knit program,
there's so much focus not just on theindividual student, but on the individual
(07:21):
classes and everything that's going on.
Um, you as a student have the sky's limit.
The opportunity is there for youand, and the support is there because
again, you're, you're surrounded by,uh, students who are like minded and,
and staff who are, who are runningall of these different aspects of the
program, whether it be wind ensemble orchoir, jazz band, as an OBOE student.
(07:45):
Um, if I want to sing in choirin most other universities, that
is usually reserved for vocalmajors and usually it's packed.
And unless I am doing a double major invocal studies or I'm just a phenomenal
singer, odds are that place is taken.
But I think the Brock MusicProgram's approach produces
wonderfully well rounded musicians.
(08:07):
Um, in that when, you know, ifyou want to go into performance,
you've worn so many hats.
That, you know, you, you are avery viable, uh, professional.
You, you, you can, uh,be implied in, in choir.
You can run a choir if, if you, um,if that's what you'd like to do.
(08:28):
If you want to go into education,you've, you've, you've touched
so many different aspects.
of being a musician, of loving musicin general, of being a music educator
or teacher or professor, that, um, youbring that to everything that you do,
and, uh, and it, It's infectious, um,and so again, I, I feel that that's
(08:51):
something that Brock really, really hasgoing for it, is that, um, all of these
options are really open to everyone.
They're free to everyone.
And in fact, uh, I was obligatory,like we, we had to be in choir
and it's the best thing you cando because at the end of the day,
uh, I keep, it keeps coming back.
Um, I hear instrumentalists talkingabout how they're trying to mimic the
(09:15):
voice, trying to sound like a vocalist.
Everyone is trying to sound like a sopranoor a tenor or a bass or a baritone, trying
to find their voice on their instrument.
Meanwhile,
all right.
So, so what otherinstruments did you study?
And so oboe was your main instrument.
What other instruments did you delve into?
Develop a liking for maybe or so
(09:35):
the oboe was not my first instrument.
It was my last my first.
Yeah My first instrument was thedrums I started when I was about four
or five on the drums And I've beenplaying in bands since I was a kid.
I picked up the guitar Um, inmiddle school sometime and then
the bass shortly after that.
Uh, the piano when I was young as wellaround the time I started the drums.
(09:56):
So, but I realized when I wasfinishing high school that I had
to go to university for something.
And there was no rock and roll program.
I had to go, you know, and,and study, study something.
Uh, classically.
And so that's why the oboecame through that way.
But the love that I had for allkinds of other music, uh, outside
(10:16):
of classical music, I was ableto continue with all of that.
Um, because again, I was surroundedby so many new musicians and everyone
wanted to start new projects.
And, uh, I was part of a band that formedin my first year and we played for years.
Uh, we were a seven piece funk bandand we, we had the time of our lives
playing and that was outside of school.
(10:36):
So again, There's something to besaid about the connections that you,
of course, it's all, really all aboutthat is the people that you, that
you come to know, you get friend,uh, you, um, you become friends with
and you get to know, I should say.
And, uh, and then, you know, you makemusic together and that lasts forever.
So those other instruments, um,were all really done outside of
(10:58):
class, but something that's beenindispensable for me were the wind.
woodwind techniques and brass techniquescourses because I am now a full time
music and French teacher and I cantalk also about my experience in the
French department at Brock as well.
I would be happy to touch on that.
Um, but, uh, nothing really couldhave prepared me better, uh, for
(11:21):
the Uh, myriad of questions thatinevitably sprout up when you give,
uh, a classroom full of eighth graderstheir first woodwind, brass, and
percussion instruments to start band.
It, then nothing can prepare you more.
So I, um, I, I was really lucky to havethose, uh, in my back pocket and, and
(11:42):
everything comes back super quickly.
The, the courses were excellent.
And then of course conducting techniques.
Um, but as far as the other instrumentswere concerned, again, it's sort of like.
In, in school or in, in university,you have your courses, which are
centered towards your main instrument.
You have choir, um, you have anensemble outside of that, that
(12:04):
you can apply yourself in, whetherthat's twin ensemble or jazz band
or, or there's also the strings now.
So for all the string players, uh, there'sa string orchestra, which is phenomenal.
And, um, so.
As far as mixing it up and going withother instruments, a lot of that, you
can reach out, uh, to the jazz band andsay, Hey, if you're looking for, uh,
(12:28):
another rhythm section player on an offday, I would love to play bass or, you
know, everyone's always looking for subs.
And so, again, sort of working yourway into the community very naturally,
very easily, uh, through the programis, is a forte, I think, uh, a really,
um, a really important aspect of it.
Um, and.
You know, getting together with yourfriends after class or on the weekends
(12:52):
to jam, to write, to compose, that's,that's what it's all about too, for sure.
So I do want to, um, come back tostudying French and, and, uh, now
your perhaps bravery in teaching youngchildren how to play instruments.
Um, but I want to get, um,ask you about that Sicily.
(13:14):
Um, and some of the, uh, some of theopportunities that you had to, um, travel
and learn outside of the university.
Okay.
So it really did all start with that.
It was between my third and fourth years.
In my third year, I performed ajoint recital with a guitarist named
Brody Smith, and it was 45 minutes.
(13:35):
And, uh, for me and maybe an hour orso for Brody, if I'm not mistaken,
with an intermission in between weplayed Gabriel's Oboe as the, you
know, the finale and anyway, itwas, it's my performance level had
never been higher to that point.
I memorized.
My program, uh, which is something thatColin was really encouraging on and he
(13:57):
showed me so much because it's, it'snot mandatory, but it, it's helped me
so much as a musician to practice thatmuscle, uh, memory, the memory, uh,
uh, capacity of, of learning music.
But he also, my teacher, that is Colinhad, um, recommended to me that over
the course of the year, as I'm workingon my repertoire, record myself just.
(14:21):
Turn my iPad camera on, and when I'm donemy, my session, turn, turn the camera
on, and play the last version of it.
The best version you can at theend of that practice session.
And, you know, uh, it's, it's,there's no better teacher than that.
You know, it's so awful hearingyourself in all of your, because in
(14:41):
your head you can, it's sort of likeyou said at the beginning, you know,
hearing your voice recorded back,some people just can't stand it, it's
like, you know, nails on a chalkboard.
When you hear yourself recordedback there, there's no filter.
There's really no There's no buffer.
So you hear everything's but you know,that's exactly why You want to do it and
(15:02):
I understand his point now better thanever is so that you can hear yourself
So that you can adjust you can makethose mental adjustments before you
go back into practice next next timethe following day or whatever so Over
the year I'd amassed this collectionof snippets, of little recordings of
different things that I'd been doing.
(15:22):
The recital happens in March, I finish myexams in May, or April, maybe early May.
And, uh, I'd applied to this festival,that was going to be happening all
summer long, from June until August.
And I'd forgot about it, because I, Ithought, you know what, I'm, I'm If this
is open to everyone, why would I get it?
(15:44):
I, I just, you know, I, Iknew that I was working.
It wasn't self defeating.
I just thought, you know,maybe the, you know.
I just didn't want to get my hopesup, I think, because really I
was just sort of hedging my bets.
And so, I'm eating a bowl of cerealone morning and I get an email from
the director, the coordinator of thefestival, the founder, saying we've
(16:04):
had an emergency oboe situation.
Our oboist that we'veselected has pulled out.
Basically, first conference served,if you can Get back to me, you're it.
Write back as quickly as I can, asrespectfully, you know, I sign off.
And he says, Great, can I hear you?
Oh my gosh, I don't have anything.
And then I remembered that those monthsof accrued, uh, you know, videos I just
(16:27):
had to quickly skim through, find thebest one I could, send it off, because
by this point I'd taken a break fromthe oboe after my recital, I'm rusty, I
couldn't just, you know, the nerves, so Isent that off and that's what got me in.
So, um, I didn't tell anyone,I called my mom right away.
Of course, I called my dad and I, Ididn't tell too many people until right
(16:50):
before I left because I, I couldn't,it felt like it couldn't be true.
Um, I thought that was being scammedor something, but no, I went and, um,
I, it's hard to put into words theimportance of, of what that festival was.
There were people fromall around the world.
And so I got to bring.
(17:12):
What I had in my littlebackpack of experience.
to this festival and just,uh, unpack it and live off the
supplies that I had within it.
Whatever tools I had available to methat had been equipped by my experiences,
um, were, were how I, I was to survive.
And it really was, it, it, atmoments it did feel like that.
(17:34):
It was very intense.
Uh, it was the most intense, mostrigorous, uh, uh, um, rehearsal schedule
I'd ever experienced up until that point.
Um.
My, my wife and I arenow married, of course.
We've been married, uh, going onfive years now, and, uh, and we
have two girls at home now, too.
(17:54):
So, this festival changed thecourse of my life musically and,
of course, in every other way.
It sounds like it was avery intense experience.
Did you feel like you wereable to hold your own?
Did you feel like you kind of had todraw on from, from what you had learned,
um, at Brock to kind of hold your own?
I think I might have been, Theyoungest, if not one of the
(18:14):
youngest people at the festival,not just, it was an opera festival.
So there was sort of like the, everyonewas living under the same roof, literally.
Like it was a massive, likestudent residence building that
we rehearsed in and we ate in.
We all had our dormitories and, andwe, you know, the, the, it was magical.
(18:35):
And most people, if I'm notmistaken, were either finished their
undergrad or studying their master's.
Um, and had much more professionalexperience, uh, than I did.
Um, and I didn't take this as a,as anything that was discouraging.
In fact, it, it allowedme to learn from everyone.
(18:56):
Understanding that everyone hadmore experience, um, meant that
I could learn something fromeveryone, a lot from everyone.
And, and I, I improved.
Um, over the course of the three weeksthat it took to rehearse, I had to, I
just had to, I was the only oboe player.
(19:16):
Um, and there were a few firstrehearsals that were pretty rough
because they were, they were prettydemanding for where I was at the time.
Um, but I, I really, I worked at it alot because it was all, it was all that
you could really do other than spendtime with your, with your new friends.
You know, it was just basically you,your instrument, the internet connection.
(19:38):
There was only really wifi in the lobby,so you couldn't just on your phone or
watching Netflix, whatever, which wouldhave been a crime anyway, uh, to, to
waste the opportunity to, you know, I,anyway, it was, it was like I'd gone
back in time before I was so relianton the internet and, and I could really
focus on getting as good as I can, as Icould, uh, the, the music that I had to.
(20:03):
play as quickly as possible.
So Brock, in terms of what I hadand how prepared I was, again, I
have to take my hat off to my oboeprofessor, most of all, because of
course I was there to play the oboe.
And if, if I had a teacher who wouldrecommend that, Oh, do you not feel
a hundred percent ready for this?
(20:23):
Then don't do it.
Don't do it until you feela hundred percent ready.
Uh, I, I would have said no, or I wouldhave never applied in the first place.
Um, Colin's approach was always.
Say yes, and work for it.
Work up to it.
Um, you will attain itif you have that goal.
And he, he's been righttime and time again.
(20:45):
Um, and, and this was perfect.
The proof was in the pudding for this.
You know, by the time I was done,these, these operas that Traviata
by, um, by Verdi, and then twopieces, two operas by Puccini,
Sua Angelica, and Gianni Schicchi.
And for three weeks, werehearsed, uh, five days a week.
(21:08):
Um, by the end, it was morelike seven days a week.
We'd wake up in the morning, startrehearsal at about nine, uh, go
until noon, have lunch, be back bytwo, rehearse till six, have dinner.
Wake up, repeat.
And it was, it was very, very demandingcompared to the, the, the playing
(21:29):
schedule that I had before, which was,you know, working my way up to that.
And again, I, I prepared arecital up until that point.
So, um, that's something that Idid definitely, uh, benefit from,
uh, in the Brock program was the.
Um, and again, if there are any studentsthat are considering, should I, should
I not, of course, of course you should,if you're nervous about playing.
(21:53):
Ah, I've got to mention somethingelse that Brock has, which is a
masterclass, routine masterclass.
Um, a lot of other programs will havea very specific masterclass just to the
instrument, which is, of course, uh,wonderful in and of itself, or maybe
they'll only reserve masterclassesfor, uh, Um, for when, uh, you know,
(22:15):
a soloist comes through to playwith the home symphony orchestra.
Okay, so, just as a non music person,um, how is a masterclass different from
a regular class with your professor?
So a masterclass, um, typicallyspeaking, say if you have a violin
masterclass, You will have a masterviolin player, air quotes, which would
(22:37):
mean a, uh, professional soloist,usually, uh, come in and, uh, specialize
in the teaching of the violin.
Um, and it's not a one on one lesson.
That would be, of course, a lesson, buta masterclass is open to other people.
It's, uh, you can be aspectator in a masterclass.
(22:57):
Uh, in fact, that's sort of the, thedefining element of a masterclass
is that it's like an open.
an open lesson where basically, uh, anda master class can last hours and hours
and hours, or it can just be, you know,an hour long or, or two hours long, right.
And with no break.
Um, and so usually you'll have,you know, a soloist come, uh, or
(23:20):
a professional in the field comeand listen to a few students.
Maybe the student will choosea movement from a piece, a
sonata that they're working on.
And.
Uh, then there's another student thatcomes up afterwards and is working on
a concerto and you sort of, you know,go through these different, uh, folks,
and it takes a lot of bravery to get upthere as a student, uh, because you're
(23:44):
not just playing one on one with, withyour teacher, you're playing for someone
that again, maybe it's just comingthrough the, the, the city for, to play
the exact concerto you're learning,or, you know, it can be very daunting.
And on top of that, You'replaying in front of violinists,
other violinists, right?
(24:05):
So they're looking at you in a waythat a normal audience would never
be able to look at you because theyare looking, they're analyzing your
technique, your musicality, yourphrasing, your articulation, everything.
They know the piece just as well as you.
Uh, but you know, a masterclassis not to tear anyone down.
It's in fact, everyone in the audienceis there and understands that it
(24:28):
takes immense courage to get up.
So, so it's not, it's, you know,if you can get over all of that,
you know, um, more power to you.
You should definitely lookfor masterclasses wherever you
are, whenever they come up.
But what makes Brock's masterclassesdifferent is that basically it is a
professor who is an instrumentalistin their own right, who has all
(24:51):
of the instrumentalists together.
So, Me as an oboe player, I would bein the same group with the violinists
and cellists, as well as the clarinetand flute and saxophone and percussion
players, all of us together.
Right.
So sort of, uh, uh, a charcuterie boardof influence of, of instrumentation
(25:13):
of all kinds of pieces and eras.
And just like you get exposed to somuch music in just a year's time,
because It's very easy to get very,um, obsessed, absorbed in the world
of just violin playing or justharp playing or whatever it is.
(25:33):
Um, but being, being in thisenvironment, you, you are exposed
to what every other instrument.
is concerned about.
What every other instrument is working on.
The technical difficulties.
You learn to respect the learning curve.
Everyone's different learning curve.
You see where they're at.
You get to watch them week after week.
You know, all of your, your, your,and it's, it's not just first
(25:55):
year or second year masterclass.
It's for the entire department, anyonewho's playing an instrument that is not
piano, which has its own masterclass orvoice, which has its own masterclass.
You're an instrumental masterclass.
And you're again, it's verybeneficial for your ears.
I would say for your, for your mind again,to, uh, getting it used to listening
(26:16):
to all kinds of different, uh, uh,classical music, uh, and jazz influenced
music as well, uh, especially with thesaxophones is the experience that I had.
Uh, that leading up to going to Sicilyand really being on my own for the
first time musically ever, um, uh.
All of the performance opportunities,even the non oboe ones, I was able to
(26:41):
bring my experiences with me to be ableto navigate the intricacies of getting
used to playing with a whole new group ofpeople, an entirely different repertoire.
Uh, in a totally differentforeign setting and, um.
One more question, um, about Sicilythen, so aside from your wife, obviously,
(27:02):
have there been other connections thatyou made, um, that you have carried
forward from, from that, uh, experience?
Right, so the Concertmaster, who,uh, for those of you who may not be,
um, uh, uh, music majors or who maybehave heard the term in passing, the
Concertmaster is the first, first violin.
(27:23):
It's in.
Just to the left of the conductor,uh, the, the concert master is, um,
uh, sort of co pilot of the orchestra.
They, they, they help with, uh,all the, the string notations.
They, they, they, they really dolead the entire string section.
The concert master of theMediterranean Opera Studio Festival
(27:44):
Orchestra, when I went, myself andmy wife, uh, at the time, we had.
Uh, gotten very close with him.
He was from Spain and, uh, he washilarious and we spent a lot of time
together, uh, along with a bassist that,uh, that my wife knew at the time too.
And so the four of us got toknow each other very well.
It turns out in Spain, he puts on.
(28:08):
festivals.
He helps put on other festivals.
And so that was an immense connectionfor Ruth and I, because we were able
to, the following summer, um, we wereable to go to Spain and to Portugal to
play at two different festivals overthere, one in Marvao, Portugal, and
the other one in, um, in a town calledValencia de la Alcántara in In Valencia,
(28:32):
I think most people probably know aboutValencia or where it might be in Spain.
And it was just incredible, uh, gettingto play with, with again, different
orchestras, uh, different, uh, repertoireentirely, um, and, uh, and getting
to see a little bit more of Europe.
I was just, I'm still enamored by,uh, by, by that time in my life.
(28:54):
It still feels too good to be true.
It was just incredible.
Um, so.
That was a major connection, uh, that wasmade and then, uh, I should also mention
too that we didn't just go over for thefestivals, but, uh, the summer was spent
playing in Portugal and in Spain and thenwe, uh, my wife and I moved to France for
a year where she did a master's degreein, in, uh, uh, creative entrepreneurship
(29:20):
and marketing and the creative economies,uh, uh, was the official title.
As a violinist that was indispensable,she now works at the National Arts
Center here in Ottawa, where we live now.
We live in the Gatineau, Ottawa area.
Um, and so that came back around.
But that's where I picked up on my French.
(29:41):
Uh, that's where I really, really,um, uh, beefed up on, on my ability
to speak and write and communicatein all different ways in French.
And I studied at aconservatory over there.
So again, those connectionshelped us, uh, leap.
Over the pond and, and, uh, and learna thousand times more, just the, you
(30:03):
know, more than just those six weeks,just, uh, really, really life changing.
And then aside from that, to, to,to continue down that same path,
uh, there was a piano player thatwe met in Spain who had studied
at the Moscow conservatory.
And she knew about a festivalthat was happening in Sochi, which
is where the Winter Olympics hadhappened just a few years prior.
(30:26):
And they were looking for an oboeplayer, and she passed my information
along, and so I got to play in, inRussia for, Uh, a festival that lasted
about two weeks before heading back to
France.
Yeah, so, um, so you were just doingFrench, French electives, um, but that
gave you enough grounding that when itcame time to go to France, you were, you
were brave enough to say, yes, let's go.
(30:46):
Yeah.
And, uh, a lot like.
Uh, you know, being thrown to thewolves, uh, so to speak with, uh, my
musical experience in, uh, in Sicily,uh, and everything since then really,
you know, the university programs, Iwas going to say school, but the, the,
the programs themselves had preparedme, um, to be able to, you know, face
(31:09):
the culture with a kind of awareness.
Um, for, for, for what was,you know, for what awaited.
So when I was in France, I, um,I was teaching a little bit like
private tutoring, English tutoring.
And, uh, most importantly, I was playingin a community wind ensemble there.
(31:30):
Uh, and they were fantastic.
Um, and I was studying ata conservatory there too.
And no one, at no point intime was I speaking English.
And you rely on yourexperience to get you there.
So what led you to being a teacher?
What is it about, about teaching youngpeople music that keeps you motivated?
Um, and, what's, what's the secret?
(31:52):
Uh,
coffee.
I say coffee facetiously, but,uh, in all honesty, I think.
You sort of have to likementally gear yourself up.
You have to, you, youcannot be on a slow gear.
You have to be very attentivebecause it's like playing.
I don't know how to, you have to bebouncing around so fast between this
(32:15):
issue, that issue, especially at first.
But every, ideally every singletime you have the same class and the
instruments go back out to everyone,it gets a little bit less urgent.
On everyone's behalf, everyonefeels a little bit more at ease.
It's being adaptable.
Uh, having some mold, having somepreconceived notion of this is how it's
(32:37):
gotta be, this is how it's going to go.
Uh, maybe that works a little bit lateron once you've got a lot of experience
and you see that there's like this.
Lane that everyone can sort of, uh, fitinto, but I personally, my philosophy
doesn't align with that at all.
You think you can fit into that, uh,or, you know, if you want to take
it a totally different direction,all these things are available.
(33:00):
But again, just, um, again, my,my, my teacher Colin, just the,
the philosophy of remaining openminded, uh, and having your default
be yes and not no, uh, is, is just.
A theme that just keeps, uh, cropping up,I find in, in, in every, in every respect.
So in addition to teaching, you've alsobeen very busy with songwriting and, uh,
(33:24):
for our listeners, um, Nick came backto my attention when an email landed in
my inbox earlier this summer, or maybeeven back in the spring, um, about a new.
Um, I want to say CD, but I'm not sureif that's even the right language anymore
to use, um, a new album, I guess that,um, that you have been, um, slowly
(33:47):
working at putting, putting together.
So let's talk about it.
Tell me all about this album, how itcame to be, what you're trying to do with
it and, um, where people can find it.
So, uh, it unfortunately doesn'texist in CD format yet, but
I'm working on it just for you.
Okay.
Just for us old people.
Um, but, uh, I would love toget an album, uh, like a vinyl
(34:10):
pressing of it too, eventually.
Right now it's streaming.
I always say anywhere you listen toyour music, you'll find it there.
Um, and so it's a, it's basically justa collection of nine songs that, uh, I,
some of, some of which have been sittingon for a while, some of which are.
Very new and have been written during myrecent adventures and reflect all of it.
(34:35):
It's sort of a um It's it's it's acombination of different things and there
You know when I wanted to record thisalbum, I should mention that it i've
been writing songs Long way longer thani've been playing oboe Uh way way longer.
It's been something that i've beendoing since I was very very young I
remember I used to write songs witha friend of mine in middle school.
(34:57):
I was in grade eight and We'd call eachother over the phone, uh, like the, the
landline before anyone had a cell phone.
And I'd say, Oh, listen,Alex, check this out.
Listen.
And then we'd play for each otherand, Oh, how would this go with this?
You know, and, and.
I've been doing this for a long,or rather I've been wanting
to record for a long time.
(35:19):
I remember, uh, every year in universitytelling myself, this is the summer.
I've got all the free time.
I can do it this summer.
I can do it.
And it just never came to befor one reason or another.
And so finally, I
think it was those tripsto Sicily and Europe.
I feel like that might'vegot very worthwhile.
Very worth.
That's, that's a verygood reason to postpone a
project.
(35:40):
And so now Uh, you know, I feel asthough things in my personal and
professional life are, uh, establishedenough now that I can pursue this,
uh, and, and finally get it out.
And thankfully.
It's, it's, it's come to be.
So the nine songs are, the, the, the,the theme of the album, the overarching
(36:05):
idea was that I wanted to sort ofintroduce, reintroduce myself because
up until now, again, most of my.
Uh, professional life as a musician hasbeen, uh, as a freelance oboist or as,
um, a guitar player or a session playerfor bands that needed, uh, someone to
(36:26):
sit in for some gigs or, or to play ona patio somewhere and do some covers,
which, you know, is great and all, butit wasn't always really what my heart
was into the latter, not the former.
I always loved the oboe playing.
Um, but finally.
I wanted to sort of say, okay, this.
This is what I really, really want to do.
(36:47):
This is what I have to get off my chest.
A lot of these songs are very personal.
They can be autobiographical orthey can just be observational.
But, um, the nine songs, what they allhave in common is I sat down with, uh,
the list of songs that I have available.
I have.
I have at least another twoalbums ready to, to record, but
I haven't recorded them yet.
(37:07):
I have a, a wealth of songs, thankfully,but I sat down and thought to myself, what
are the ones, what are the songs whereI can play all the instruments myself?
I thought to myself, um, eachone of these songs are unique.
They, they, they all have their owngenre, even they span different genres.
Uh, but the continuity ofthe album is that it's.
(37:30):
I wanted to play allthe instruments myself.
And my theory was that, um, therewould be a feeling that would sort of,
uh, emanate from the tracks, from thefeeling of the tracks that, um, that
would have a continuity throughout them.
And, and it would be something sortof subliminal in the sense that it
feels like it's always the same personbecause it is, I, I, I played, uh, all
(37:54):
the, like the, the main tracks on allof the al uh, uh, on all of the, the.
The producer is also aBaroque music graduate.
His name is Fergus Gundy.
Um, and he added, uh, you know, thekeyboards and he mixed things beautifully.
His voice is found on the record too,percussion, lots of different stuff to,
(38:16):
um, to, to sort of conclude the albumand make it what, what it came to be.
Um, so the nine songs are.
Sort of, um, a testament towhat my life has been so far.
And again, a reintroduction to Okay.
I'm not just what you thought I was,I, I'd like to let you know that
(38:38):
I, I have the other things to say.
I have, I actually havesomething to say and, uh, and
I wanted to reintroduce myself.
And the album is called Without Love.
Sorry, the last track is called WithoutLove, the album is called World in
Vain.
World in Vain, okay, thankyou for clarifying that.
Um, and we can find thison YouTube, Spotify?
(38:58):
That's right, yeah.
Okay, so, um, you mentioned this delayin the project, and it's kind of funny,
I was just having this conversationwith somebody else, how sometimes you
try to do something and it doesn't goforward, and then a year or two later,
everything falls into place for you.
Did you find that kind of that period ofpercolation or maturation of your ideas?
Did that benefit the album in the end?
(39:20):
Do you think it would have been avery different album if you had done
it in university when you initiallyhad that idea and desire to do it?
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I, uh, I realized I had to wait, youknow, it, it, It came to be for for a
specific reason at a specific time Uh,if I had done it earlier, i'm sure it
would have been it would have been youknow It would have been good, but it
(39:44):
would have been very different and um,it would have been the best I could
do That's all you know, and um I thinka lot of people struggle, and I think
I struggled with it too at the time.
You're only as ready as youcan be at any given time.
And it's for any artistic endeavor.
If you're worried about, oh, thisisn't good enough, that's not,
that's not where it should be.
That's a, yes, fair enough.
(40:05):
But do the best you can.
It's better to do it, uh, as best you can.
And maybe it's not exactly You knowwhat you have in your head just yet.
It's better that it exists than itthen it never sees the light of day
That's beautiful.
Um, just as you were speaking I wasjust thinking about my own experience
with podcasting and how you know Ilook back when I started podcasting and
(40:29):
and compared to what I do and how I doapproach it and what not now and and
and I suppose music is, is, is a littlebit similar in that, in that you have to
put it out there for it to get better.
Like, it's a bit of apublic experimentation.
Right.
Exactly.
It, it, and, and now I realizethat's exactly what it is.
(40:51):
I, it, it's, it's not anything if it'sjust for you, if it's just in your own
head, you know, it, it, it, it is, itcan console, it can, uh, it can excite.
If it's only for you at the moment, right?
It's a project is very exciting.
Uh, uh, as a prospect, but once, onceyou've actually done everything to
(41:14):
make it come true, and then it actuallyis out there, um, you know, you're,
you're open to all kinds of new thingsthat you were never open to before.
And it is actually, I found itvery freeing because it's out.
It's done.
I did it.
I don't have to worry aboutwill I ever do it's done.
(41:35):
And if I've done itonce, I can do it again.
So, um, I will absolutely recordanother album in due time.
I it's, it's just finished now,so I'm not, I'm in no rush.
To head back to, to get that, youknow, anything new done just yet.
But, um, but again, it's, it's, it'salso like there might be someone who
(41:56):
needs to hear it, you know, um, likewhatever your song is about, you know,
the, the, the person that needs to hearthe message or the person that really,
really loves the song and really feels it.
You know, they, they don't care thatyou haven't got that perfect fill there
yet, or they don't, you know, they'renot, they're not going to, in fact, they
might enjoy how quirky the little mistakewas if it's, you know what I'm saying?
(42:21):
And because at the end of the day,it's funny, uh, I, I, it's a lot
like teaching too, because it'ssort of like in your endeavor to.
Get as good as you possibly can, uh,studying music or any form of art.
Uh, you, you sort of like you'rescaling a mountain, right?
(42:41):
You, you know, you, you stop, you, youset up camp, you start the next day.
And sometimes, you know, you, you have tofind another way around, but anyway, you,
you make your way up to a certain height.
And then to, to ask, to teach from thebeginning, it's sort of like turning
around and telling someone how yougot that high up, and maybe you don't
(43:02):
remember exactly how you got overthis particular difficult spot or,
you know, it's, it's really taxing,but, um, you know, at the end of the
day, most people are not musicians.
The vast majority of your listenerswill not be musicians, even if all your
friends are musicians and, and the peopleyou're making music with are musicians.
(43:22):
You sort of have to always be intouch with what does this sound like
if I don't know anything about whatI've put into doing this, which is
like absurd because you put so mucheffort into the construction of it,
into the architecture of it, intothe, the, the meaning of it for you.
Maybe, you know, maybe,maybe I'm going to.
(43:44):
far down or far in, but, um, I thinka lot of, uh, writers of any kind or
artists of any kind, they, they'revery intentional and, and they use
again, all that experience, but at theend of the day, you're making it for
people who don't have any experience.
So you have to sort of be intouch with that almost childlike
(44:04):
Misunderstanding of your intentions and
yeah, that's, that's really interesting.
Um, and, and, and I think that's goodadvice maybe for, for any kind of creative
work, whether it's, you know, um, artisticor performance or writing or whatever it
is that when, when we're doing somethingcreative and putting ourselves out there
and when we're training in it, um, Ithink sometimes we, we can maybe have a
(44:30):
tendency, um, to be really self criticalof what we're doing, but to be able
to kind of step back and to see it asour audience, whoever that audience is
to see it or hear it as that audience.
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
So, as an artist, as a musicalartist, what kind of, like,
how, how do you deal with.
(44:52):
Because, you're performing, you'resharing creativity, you're sharing
something very personal, and then you'regetting feedback from people you admire,
um, from professors, from audience.
From newspaper critics, you know,whoever from from yourself, maybe as
well, um, how do you kind of balancethat and keep keep that creative
(45:16):
momentum going forward, um, while,dealing sometimes perhaps with negative
feedback or criticism or perspectiveson your work that aren't quite what you
wanted to hear.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a wonderful question.
That's a very important question too.
I would also lump in, uh,disappointment, silent disappointment.
(45:37):
You know, if, if you, if you expectyour song to, uh, reach a certain
audience or, or you're expectingthat it's going to lead you to this,
you know, X, Y, Z, whatever it maybe, whatever you have in your mind.
And it doesn't automatically do that.
That is, you know, it, it can also be kindof sour, you know, but, um, I, I would,
I would say that the most important.
(45:59):
thing is to try to keep yourself in checkand in tune with your own intentions and
the reminding yourself of what the yourbest is being honest with yourself about
that if you're being False if you feellike you're pretending or you're writing
for some Someone or something some ideathat you have of oh if I say this it'll
(46:23):
come off like that, you know being tooToo self critical is not a good thing,
but at the same time, it's also absolutelyessential to keep yourself in check.
But I suppose it's about being awareof the voice that's telling you,
this feels right, this feels good.
Because if it feels right and it feelsgood to you, um, before you put it
(46:49):
out to the world, you know that it'scoming from an honest place and that
any criticism, uh, of it, Uh, it's,it's not, it transcends personal
because you're not, it felt right andmaybe there's no explanation for that.
You can't explain why you, youthought that it should go like
this or it should go like that.
(47:11):
It just, it, it is what it is and,and you did the best you could.
And if, if anyone doesn't, uh, like it.
If it's not of their taste,it's, it's, uh, it's absurd
to expect everyone to like it.
You know, you, you, you know, youcan take what you can from it.
You know, if it's an honest criticismand it's, it's fair, then, you know,
(47:33):
you can listen to it and go, ah,okay, I see that maybe this, uh, this
lyric here was kind of, I don't know.
Uh, I don't know what you could sayabout it or, you know, maybe this is
too repetitive or this is too that.
You, you sort of, um, you, Iguess what you have to do is to
(47:53):
be aware of your decision makingand be comfortable with it, right?
Like, um, you know, know whatyour options are and then proceed.
So, so what I'm hearing in whatyou're saying really is, genuine
authenticity, and a personal integrity.
Yeah, being, uh, as corny as it is beingtrue to oneself, like, and I, I don't
(48:17):
want to say that because it's sort of,you know, when you hear something often
enough, it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Yeah, the word authenticity is kind ofone of those words because we hear it
so much in social media contexts andwhatnot that it starts to kind of lose its
meaning.
Yeah, it's potency for sure.
So I'm trying to sort of likewalk around the point and try to
(48:39):
get to the heart of it that way.
And just saying that, um, If it feelsas right as it can to you, negative
criticism is, is someone's opinion,which is entirely valid, but, um,
but you did what felt right and you,you, that, that's all you can do.
How can you possibly changewhat, what you felt was right?
(49:01):
You know, if, if, you know, andalso the cool thing about it is
it's not like, um, uh, a form ofart that is just stagnant, right?
Like the recording.
Yes.
But the, the good news is I can always,if I, if I absolutely cannot stand a
recording, I can just take it down,you know, but I personally, I don't.
Believe in doing that sort of thingbecause it's it's it documents a moment
(49:24):
in time a moment in your life Any anymusician that that puts something up
is documenting that moment in time?
What and and whatever it?
represents Is it's encapsulated in themusic and so I don't believe in taking
it down necessarily, but, uh, you know,and I don't think I will ever do that.
(49:49):
In fact, I don't know why I mentionedit, but I'm just saying it's an option.
But the other option is to that,you know, every time I perform
the song, I can do it differently.
You know, I don't ever want to playthe same thing exactly the same
twice, you know, um, and that'sthe fun of it is that, you know,
if I want to change this part.
I can, you know, it's, it's stillputty in my hands and it's still music.
(50:11):
It's still free and, um, and I can still,you know, change it according to what
I feel is right then, you know, I didit so it felt right at the time I did
the best I could and maybe it changes,maybe it doesn't, maybe it always feels
right to do it that way, you know,um, and, uh, and, and I often find.
(50:34):
People are, if really people are, areactually in the state of mind to accept
something new such as a new song thatthey've never heard before, um, oftentimes
it's It's an experience that peoplecan walk away from and, and feel happy
that they, they stayed, happy that theylistened, happy that they, you know,
(50:55):
they took the time to, to hear you out.
And that's really what they're doingis they're, they're hearing you out
because you had to say something.
And, uh, and that means the world reallybecause people's time, people's attention.
Uh, is, is so, so, um, so valuable.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Well, speaking of time, I'mgoing to thank you for your time.
, I really appreciate the honesty and,the passion, um, that you have shared
(51:20):
with us today and your words of wisdom.
As well, you've given methings to, think about.
And I am very excited to seewhat happens, um, for you next.
Certainly get in touch whenthe next album comes out.
And, um, I wish you all the best.
And thank you so much for your time today.
Thank you.
Likewise, Alison.
(51:41):
Thank you for listening to Forward.
Find our footnotes, links to moreinformation, transcripts, and past
episodes on our website, BrockU.
ca slash humanities.
We love to hear from our listeners,so join us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at Brock Humanities.
Please subscribe and rate us onyour favourite podcasting app
(52:01):
so you don't miss an episode.
Forward is hosted and produced byAllison Innes for the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
Sound editing is by Serena Attella,and theme music is by Calla Damam.
This podcast is financiallysupported by the Faculty of
Humanities at Brock University.
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.