July 10, 2024 • 24 mins
Millennial and DRS team member Durin recently got married and says that changed how he thinks about planning for the future. He shares his love of food and tips for budgeting when it comes to cooking and grocery shopping.
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(00:05):
Welcome back to Fund Your Future with DRS.
And today we're continuingour generational conversation
about how different generationsare saving for retirement.
And we've got a DRS teammember in the studio with us today
from the millennial generation (00:18):
Durin.
Welcome.
Thank you Jenny. Happy to be here. Great.
And Seth and I also both fallinto the millennial category.
So we're all in good company here.
So Durin, when you think about millennials
and finances,what's the first thing that comes to mind?
I think for millennial financesthe first thing that comes to mind for me
(00:41):
is primarilythe struggle to get a job that supports
the kind of lifestyle you want to live.
And so I think a lot of my peersespecially, are on that first step,
thinking about how do I afford to dothe things I want to do
and retirement savingsand those kind of things
oftentimes fall secondary to thatas they're trying to make up those initial
few things, right.
(01:02):
How to pay for their car paymentsor their rent and things like that.
But I think fortunately, you know,there's been a lot of opportunity to
get jobs that that pay for those things.
And so I think, more and more,my peers are thinking about,
especially as being a part of the youngermillennial generation,
thinking about things like retirementsavings and stuff.
That's a great comment,especially reminds me
of some of the other conversationswe've had with our other Gen Xer folks.
(01:25):
Do you feel like there'sa particular point where you kind of
had an ‘ah-ha’ moment of,“I need to save for retirement?” I mean,
I think, getting married was actuallya big part of that point for me.
I think that sometimes it can be difficultto think about the future
or like, plan for yourself.
And so and I had a cat for the first timelike that was when I was, “oh,
I gotta make sure that I, like,have money to feed my cat, you know,
(01:49):
I can't just fail and be me.”And then, as I’ve
gained more responsibilityand more people depend on me.
And there's more expectation to do that.
And I really started to think moreand more about those things.
Ironically, when I was 13and had like a babysitting job,
I was actually starting my retirementsavings at that time
with my disposable incomebecause I had no expenses.
And then as I got older, you know,my retirement contributions dwindled
(02:12):
a little bit.
It's a really good point
about how our lifestyles change
at different points in our lifetime.
When you're 18 and have a job.
I remember being in a very similarsituation, like I had almost no expenses.
I was a high school studentthat had a job in fast food and was like,
I've got all this disposable income,I'm going to go buy a snowboard
(02:34):
or I'm going to support the lifestylethat I want to live.
And then as your lifestylechanges over time,
it really impactsyour spending priorities.
I really also appreciate the ideaof like those major life events,
shifting your mindset.
I think for people when they get married,that's a great example.
When they have kids,maybe when their parents get sick,
(02:57):
there are all these thingsthat like trigger, like reflection
about your own lifeand what are you going to do about that?
And then whatare you going to do to help other people?
Yeah. That's interesting.
Well, and you mentioned getting married.
Do you mind sharing if you and your spousehave had conversations
about saving for retirementand kind of what that looked like?
If we I try to have this conversationall the time.
(03:18):
See, I was raised with a lot of financialplanning and literacy
and financial conversationsaround the dinner table.
So that's a big part of it for me.
I'll bust out the whiteboard,I'll do budgeting.
You know, we'll do the whole thing. Right?
So it is absolutely a conversation.
And my wife just got a job at the state.
And so I'm very excited for herbecause, you know, now
(03:39):
we get to have the conversation about whatplan selection she gets to go through.
and you're very knowledgeable about that.
Yeah, I'm very well versed and, it's true.
I mean, having conversations with members,I do when I listen to their stories,
I think about like, “wow,this is something
that I should be thinking about now.”And it's kind of a privileged position
to be thinking about the futureat such a young age.
You know, I don't think I would have beendoing any of this had I not worked here.
(04:02):
Yeah, for sure. I felt the same way.
I mean, I also grew up in a householdwhere that conversation of: “Well,
you need to save, here's how you budgetwith a checkbook.” Balance a checkbook.
Balance a checkbook. Yes.
So it is helpful to that,but also to your point.
So now working at DRSfor the last 2 or 3 years,
I've learned a lot and [I’m] very thankfulfor having that knowledge
(04:26):
of planning now,when I'm in my 30s and 40s.
I mean,
because those plans you make now,they have so much time to change and grow.
I mean, you know,I've heard the analogy of: “If
you want a ship to goa different direction,
you just have to turn itone degree ten years ago.” Right?
And then it's going acompletely different direction and point.
And I think, you know, retirementsavings are a very similar way, right?
(04:49):
Where those times you make inyour 20s are more valuable
than the ones you make in your 30s,and so on.
Of course, pensionsystems are a little different.
But, in some ways it's similar.
Pensions, you're adding timeon, you're building service credit.
You're building up this future benefit.
So time is still on your side.
I think we hear from folkswho oftentimes wish
(05:09):
they would have started working in publicsector five years earlier.
Or you know, “How would my lifelook different if I would have started
that career earlier?” And in some ways,I think what you're saying
also connects back to that,that you can make those positive decisions
early on in your life.
But there's also differentpaths that you can take.
And you at some point you have to come to,you know, acceptance about that.
(05:31):
You can't necessarily changewhat has happened in the past,
make the best possible decisionsfor yourself going forward.
I'm curious, since you mentioned marriage,I don't think we've talked about this
with any other guests.
What sort of conversations that you haveabout combining finances or shared
checking accounts, or who pays what bill,or how you've combined finances,
especially if your spouse wasn'tworking at one point and now is working?
(05:52):
You know what that looks like
from a personal finance in a relationshipfinance situation.
Yeah, totally.
I'm just someone that's very open
with the finances and very much want to dowhat's fair and equitable.
So very quickly, when she was stillmy girlfriend, when she moved in with me,
I mean, we made a joint account togetherthat wasn't the sum of all of our money,
(06:13):
but we both put in equal amounts of moneyto it for our combined expenses.
So we paid our rent out of it,our groceries,
anything we did together,we paid out of that.
And we just say every month, I'm
putting $2,000 in the joint accountand we each would do the same amount.
And so that was how we worked it earlier.
And but now that we're marriedand we have just one account,
everything's together in it,
you know, a couple different accounts,but everything's under both of our names.
(06:35):
Yeah.
We make those decisions together, mostlyat my insistence on having a conversation
about making a decision.
But, yeah,we're very much combined on that.
Yeah, I think that's interesting.
Everybody comes to those sortsof discussions in different ways
and kind of with different baggageor different life experience.
And oftentimesit can be a point of contention.
But trying to havethose open conversations and once again,
(06:57):
with no judgment and how you come tothose conversations can be really helpful.
Do you mind sharing sort of methodsthat you use for budgeting,
whether it's, Excel sheet or,
good old fashioned pencil and paper?
Yeah.
So I don't know if all banks
let you do this, but my bank,the Employees Credit Union, will,
(07:18):
let you, like, print offyour transaction history into Excel,
and then you can turn that datainto some useful
graphs using various onlineapplications and the like.
But even if you're just kind ofcasually looking through it,
you can kind of pick a sample month
and you can just determine, okay,how much do we spend in this month?
Is this average? Take another month.
(07:38):
Use it a reference point.How close are they?
How similar are they?
And so I try to think about itin terms of things that we have to spend.
We have spent a certain amount on rent.
We have to a certain amount of moneyon these things.
And we do like a weekly date.
So, I include that as part of the budget.
That's a given.
But everything else is flex money.
So how much flex moneydo we have every day to spend?
So I take everything that's left overand I
(08:00):
say, if we don't save anything, here'show much we can spend every day.
And if you don't spend it that day,that's great. It's my money saved.
And so we both know what our kind of flexmoney spend budget for each day is.
And that doesn't count like big purchases.
Like if you want to buy something big,that's kind of its own
kind of consideration. But,
because we don't oftentimes
think about our rentas being a daily expense, right?
(08:20):
Or our phone bill as being a dailyexpense, but they are daily expenses.
They aren't just things that happenevery month.
These are things you're payingfor every day.
You just happen to pay it once a month.
I think most people my ageprobably have ten expenses
that they actually have, right?
They're pretty consistent, whether that begroceries or electrical bill or rent.
(08:41):
And it's pretty easy to addall those things together and subtract
them from your monthly income and say,here's how much money I have left over.
Yeah. You know, after this.
And that's everythingthat I have to spend on that
I consider left over,which can be quite a lot.
So figuring out how much is the leftoverpot can be the trickiest part, I think.
Nice I like that term flex money.
I like to use the bucket method.
(09:02):
So yeah, the first bucket is just generalwhat you need to get by your rent,
your utilities.
The second bucket is savings,
and then the third bucket isjust the flex money.
So yeah I try to put the
savings in the first bucketbecause then I actually do it.
Yeah, yeah.
If it's mandatory I have to. Right?
I really also like the idea
(09:23):
of thinking about your spendingin terms of daily spending
or thinking about things in terms ofmonthly spending or yearly spending, like
how much do I spend on donuts every yearversus every week or month,
because so much of our spendingis inconsistent, you know,
because it is flexibleand it's something that, you know,
some people are really good about going
(09:44):
grocery shopping once a weekor once a month or every other week.
And other people like,
I don't know, I go grocery shopping,maybe every three and a half weeks?
I don't know. It's inconsistent spending.
And I think we have a lot of thingsin our lives that follow
kind of a normal monthly cycle,because that's
how a lot of people get paidor they get paid twice a month.
But then there are thingslike car insurance that you could pay
(10:07):
once a month, or you could pay everysix months, or you could pay once a year.
And trying to think about those expensesin different time terms, length of time
to think about how you do like an applesto apples comparison.
Well, I do that all the time.
So, I'll think about
if I'm going to make something partof my daily spending habits
because I would say that, like, I'm
a pretty consistent spenderin terms of my stuff.
(10:27):
We buy groceries every week.I buy a cup of coffee every day,
and this is my worst -this is my guilty expense.
But I know that it'swhat keeps me functioning.
So it's like it'sworth it in that respect.
But I spend $5 every dayon a cup of coffee.
So it is almost $2,000 a year, for meto get that cup of coffee every day.
And I think about that as likea percentage of my wage, it's actually
pretty high.
(10:48):
It would be a huge savings thingfor me to cut that out.
But another part of me knowsthat if I start cutting that out,
then there goes a lot of my goodwillin the life and work.
So it's a worthwhile expense.
But I definitely I think about like
if you translate, for example,our weekly date lunch, I think about that.
How much does that cost us per year to do?
(11:08):
And you know, if it costs us, you know, 50bucks a week, 50 weeks a year,
2500 bucks a year isn't it's expensive,but it's worth it, right?
I mean, if in the grand scheme of things— it’s not a ton — but it's also a lot.
I mean, I don't know, it'shard to think about numbers...
So I try to think in percentages.
And that's why having the flexmoney is so useful to me
(11:29):
is thinking aboutwhat percentage of my income is already
spoken for, versus what percentageI actually get to have some discretion.
I also like, in that way of thinking,you can think about sort
of the opportunity costsof what else could I do with that money?
Is that weekly lunch worththe same amount of joy
(11:50):
or happiness as a one week trip to Hawaii?
That might cost about the same amountover the course of the entire year?
And you know, that's something you canthink about in your overall budget.
And maybe one year you make one decision.
In one year,you make a different decision.
You try to figure out where you're atis in terms of not just the cost of it,
but the utility or the happinessor other things that brings you.
(12:14):
We're talking about utility.
We're talking about marginal utility.
Yeah.
No, totally.
I mean, it's hardto quantify those things, but absolutely.
It does help putting those kind of,somewhat consistent
spending things in perspective of how muchthey actually cost you over the year.
Because like you're sayingthat cup of coffee every day,
I mean, that could be a small vacationevery year.
(12:37):
That's very real.
And that's like a good way of thinking
about how to both save moneyand how to budget.
I think because you start thinking about,well, is that $15
I spend here every weekreally worth that much to me?
And sometimes it is,and sometimes you might make a change.
Nice to look at it and go, oh,yep, there it is.
(12:58):
And this kind of is a good transition.
But, do you have any tipsfor budgeting or finances?
Maybe especially for folkswho are working as state employees,
and then also for folks who are maybeworking in the private sector?
Well, I mean, the first pieceof budgeting advice
that I really liked that I was given; it'snot super useful always,
(13:21):
but the best budgeting adviceis to make more money.
Ultimately, budgeting is a lot easierthe more money you have to budget with,
and sometimes people will try to budgettoo small of money.
They're really trying to figure out
how to make a small pile of money work,and that can be really difficult.
But as far as strictly budgeting advice,I think,
considering what you're actuallyutilizing each thing for.
(13:44):
So I think olive oilis a great example for this.
Some olive oil is for salads.
It's very expensive.
It's like 40 bucks for a little bottle.
It's delicious, but it's great.
And then there's olive oilthat's for cooking.
And it's a lot cheaper.
And it comes in much bigger bottles.
And so thinking about, “well,when I'm doing the cooking
olive oil, I should really make sureto have some of that on hand.
(14:07):
So I'm not using the fancy olive oil.”
And maybevinegar is another good example of this.
I have vinegar for picklingand I have vinegar for cleaning,
and one of them is a lotcheaper than the other.
And I love to cooksome examples are cooking here,
but just understandingI think those things can help a lot.
And then also cooking helpswith budgeting a lot.
I used to eat out a lot
(14:28):
and when I started cooking,I started saving a lot more money.
I also have a lot more fun eating becauseI was making all the food I was making.
it just the way I liked it,
and I stopped liking eating out as muchbecause I was like, “I'm better than...
I'm a better cook than these places..”
I hear you on that.
And it can be a lot healthier too,
especially if you're not usingas many prepared foods.
I mean, probably.It depends on how much butter you use.
(14:49):
I mean, you getthat flexibility then right?
I'm concerned thatI'm using the wrong vinegar for cleaning.
I mean, that I'm using the same vinegarfor cleaning and pickling.
And so now ...
That’s true. That's okay, I doI do the same. What vinegar do you use?
I just use white distilled vinegar.
I mean, that's great. Okay.
Yeah I mean if you want to use
a little rice wine vinegar,you don't have to add as much sugar
(15:10):
because it already hassome of that sweetness in there.
There are oftentimes
like seasoned vinegars which are very niceif you're going to pickle stuff
because then you geta little extra flavor in there.
I mean, you can use whatever.
Pickles are inherently a stored food.
So, yeah.
Man, I did not expect to talk aboutpickles today.
Well,I'm going to bringing things off topic.
I think it's okay.
We're a well-rounded podcast.
(15:31):
I guess
one of the topics that's come up ona lot of these conversations
that we've had with people
of all generations is kind of how you'redealing or thinking about inflation.
And I think I've said thisin multiple times, like for a long time,
people have never really thought aboutinflation or younger folks especially.
Like it wasn'tsomething that was top of mind.
(15:52):
you know, I talk to my parentsand they talk about waiting in line
for gasoline because oil embargoes andthe real hyperinflation that was scary.
And I think for the first timesince the late 70s,
a lot of usare thinking about what inflation means
and how it impacts our lives.
So I'm curious
what your experiences have beenand what kind of if there are tips
or tricks or thoughts that you've had,cooking might be one of them.
(16:14):
Yeah.
I mean, I've always considered inflationbecause from an early age
I was very involved in investmentand that kind of conversation around it.
So understanding the kind of inherent lossthat exists on money
as it sits, has always been partof how I consider money.
So as a young person,I was never buying bonds.
because I was always tryingto beat inflation by a significant margin,
(16:36):
not try to keep pace with it.
And so I think it's always been somethingI've been thinking about in that respect.
But as inflation has gotten higher,
I just haven't really founda ton of ways around this.
It really seems like a lot of the risingcosts
for me are in thingsI can't not do, like eat.
And so in that respect, to me,
(16:58):
it seems like it's more of a lifestyleshift that comes with managing inflation
than any real like hunting for bargainstip that I can find...
flour went up.
It wasn't just, you know, onebrand of flour, flour went up.
That being said, it's still a lot cheaperto bake your own bread.
You know, I can get a thing of flourfor like six bucks.
I probably get like five loaves out of it,
(17:20):
you know, like,and it's just water that I'm adding.
So like that's pretty cheap.
But at the end of the dayit used to be three.
So I do feel that.
Have potlucks, do groupcooking with your friends.
That's a great way to save money.
If you're cooking, oftentimes
it's easy to make a meal for sixpeople as opposed to two.
And if you have friends,you can split that deal off with.
(17:42):
You know,I cook a home cooked meal on Tuesday,
you cook one on Wednesday,you cook one on Thursday,
and we all share the little bits.
That's a great way to reduce those.
But I think honestly we kind ofhave to eat inflation a little bit.
The example you also touched on there,I feel like
is something that we've come back to youin a couple of other episodes as well.
It's not just about,
money, but it's also about community.
(18:03):
Like what other benefit are you gettingfrom the dollars you're spending?
I think it's one of the reasonsa lot of people will go out to eat,
because they want that social interaction.
But are there ways to create thator recreate
that in a different environmentat a lower cost and a potluck or,
you know, a social gatheringonce a week might help save money,
but it also builds your sense of communityor belonging within your friend group.
(18:27):
I think that's a really good example.
Yeah, yeah.
Inflation is something that we all haveto figure out how to deal with.
And maybe it means in some caseswe eat less eggs because those are
the things that have been most impactedat one time or whatever.
Being flexible allows you to think aboutmaybe different ways
to have that be less of an impact or to,
(18:47):
as you said, kind of absorb that impact.
Yeah,I like that idea of, community spread.
And to avoid having thisbe like a Carl Weathers talk on,
how to get the most out of your per diem,you know, from Arrested Development?
He’s getting the soup bones...
You know, I think that doing a cookout...
there's lots of public parksthat have built in cookout stations.
(19:11):
Go have a barbecue with your friends.
I mean, a lot of the packaging sizethat we’re sold food
in, is meant for a family of 4 to 6,not a group of 1 or 2.
And so a lot of times,the expensive part of cooking
is actually the waste that comes fromnot using all your food.
And if you're doing stuff with friends,a lot of that waste goes away
(19:32):
and you can have a good timebecause you get to hang with your friends.
So there's lots of great parks
around Washington statethat would appreciate the visitors.
I love it.
I also was not expecting an ArrestedDevelopment reference during the podcast.
That's going to hit another a whole notheraudience that I'm excited about.
It is kind of fun to watch...there'ssome historical cooking
channels on YouTube that I love,and one of them is like
(19:54):
pasta grannies, and they talk about pastaand grandmothers in Italy making pasta.
But there's another onethat's a little bit a little sadder.
But it's depression era cooking.
It's specifically meals that people ateduring the depression era.
And it was so funny to seeso many of my college meals
on there,
and I was like, “wow,I was doing this” like I was — I mean,
unintentionally — going back in historyand finding the same solutions they were.
(20:17):
What's an example you can think of?
So it's one of the weirder examples.
It's a variant of EasternEuropean goulash.
So it uses ground beefinstead of whole beef.
And it uses canned tomatoes instead oflike a tomato puree and paprika.
And it's basically just, a stew cookedout of those and then served over noodles.
(20:38):
And it's pretty decent.
Maybe akin to sloppy Joesor like Hamburger Helper.
It's very similar.
And this was apparentlywhat's called like Hoover stew.
Yeah, I think oftentimeswhen you look for those sort
of like historically, foods that
fed a lot of people.
I always go back to Dal and Nan.
(20:58):
So like, Indian food,that's very inexpensive to make.
I'm using lentils and flour and waterto make bread and it but it's, it's
sometimes some of the best thingsyou can eat and comforting and nourishing.
But yeah, trying to figure out whatthose foods are from different regions
and how you can make themrelatively inexpensive.
(21:19):
I'm going to go Google “depressioncooking” now and see what comes up.
Well, and so I mean we're talking aboutcooking now, so we're fully in it.
But one of my favorite like just quickhome meals is just heating up rice.
And then, have you ever heard of Furikake?
It's rice seasoning.
You can buy it from stores.
And there's like a million differentkinds of this.
(21:41):
You can get like your sesameor your toasted fish,
your kimchi or whatever,sprinkle it over and then poach an egg.
And that's just a great food to eat.
You might eat a couple bowls of it
because it's, you know,it's a little light, but it's delicious.
And it's like $0.30 to make.
Like genuinely super, super cheap.
Nice.
I'm going to have to remember thatbecause my husband is gluten intolerant.
(22:01):
So we don't do a lot of gluten.
So we do a lot of chicken and rice.
So I'm going to have to try that to mix upthe rice dishes.
Yeah.
And even you can
double up your ingredients.
If you have Hon Dashi for soup stock
you can just sprinklethat right on the rice.
It's weird to put soup stock directly on,but it's like it's
just breaking up a bouillon cubeand putting on something.
It's delicious.
I feel like this is the first episodewe've ever talked this much about food,
(22:24):
but when you talk about
like major impacts to budget; it'stransportation, housing and food.
Those are the thingsthat have really big impacts.
And if you can make headway in
one of those areas, you can free upa lot of money in your budget, or you can
create a lot of space for other savings,or savings for retirement.
And also, you know, spending for fun.
(22:44):
I appreciate that you went downthat rabbit hole with us,
because I think it was exactlywhat we needed to talk about.
Maybe some people needed to hear.
Well, it's the most flexible of the threeyou mentioned.
Oftentimes moving is a factor ofcan you find somewhere else
that's available to you in yourif you have a car payment,
you have a car payment.
You have an insurance payment,you have gas.
But you can't really change thatthat much.
(23:05):
You can walk to work, you can bus,but there is only so much you can do.
Whereas food, you feel likeyou've a lot of flexibility there.
How much you actually have can depend alot on what your actual dietary needs are.
But you know,there is some room to be had.
Yeah.
Well,I think we've really covered a lot here.
Durin, do you have any other thoughtsabout millennials and,
(23:27):
this particular moment in time?
Yeah.
I mean,I think, you know, as a millennial,
I think I was fed a lot of doomconversation as I was younger.
And, while I still resonate with thosefeelings, I think it's important
sometimes to not let go of the ideathat things can be better.
(23:49):
And that,it may not always be bad or hard,
because if we accept that as a given,then we stop doing the struggle
for things that are better.
And so even if, you know,inflation is really hard right now,
try as best you can because it very wellcould be better in the future.
I love that that's a perfect way to end.
So thanks for coming on.Yeah of course. Thanks for having me.
(24:12):
Thanks for listening.
And now we'd love to hear from you.
What topics would you like to hear about?
What questions do you have for us?
Send an email to drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov
That's drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov.
The Department of Retirement Systemsprovides this podcast as a public service,
but it's neither a legal interpretationnor statement of DRS policy.
(24:34):
References to any specific productor entity do not constitute
an endorsement or recommendation.
The views expressed by guests are theirown, and their appearance on the program
does not imply an endorsement of themor any entity they represent.
Views and opinions expressed by DRSemployees are those of the employees,
and do not necessarily reflect the view ofDRS or any of its officials.
Welcome back to Fund Your Future with DRS.
And today we're continuingour generational conversation
about how different generationsare saving for retirement.
And we've got a DRS teammember in the studio with us today
from the millennial generation (00:18):
Durin.
Welcome.
Thank you Jenny. Happy to be here. Great.
And Seth and I also both fallinto the millennial category.
So we're all in good company here.
So Durin, when you think about millennials
and finances,what's the first thing that comes to mind?
I think for millennial financesthe first thing that comes to mind for me
(00:41):
is primarilythe struggle to get a job that supports
the kind of lifestyle you want to live.
And so I think a lot of my peersespecially, are on that first step,
thinking about how do I afford to dothe things I want to do
and retirement savingsand those kind of things
oftentimes fall secondary to thatas they're trying to make up those initial
few things, right.
(01:02):
How to pay for their car paymentsor their rent and things like that.
But I think fortunately, you know,there's been a lot of opportunity to
get jobs that that pay for those things.
And so I think, more and more,my peers are thinking about,
especially as being a part of the youngermillennial generation,
thinking about things like retirementsavings and stuff.
That's a great comment,especially reminds me
of some of the other conversationswe've had with our other Gen Xer folks.
(01:25):
Do you feel like there'sa particular point where you kind of
had an ‘ah-ha’ moment of,“I need to save for retirement?” I mean,
I think, getting married was actuallya big part of that point for me.
I think that sometimes it can be difficultto think about the future
or like, plan for yourself.
And so and I had a cat for the first timelike that was when I was, “oh,
I gotta make sure that I, like,have money to feed my cat, you know,
(01:49):
I can't just fail and be me.”And then, as I’ve
gained more responsibilityand more people depend on me.
And there's more expectation to do that.
And I really started to think moreand more about those things.
Ironically, when I was 13and had like a babysitting job,
I was actually starting my retirementsavings at that time
with my disposable incomebecause I had no expenses.
And then as I got older, you know,my retirement contributions dwindled
(02:12):
a little bit.
It's a really good point
about how our lifestyles change
at different points in our lifetime.
When you're 18 and have a job.
I remember being in a very similarsituation, like I had almost no expenses.
I was a high school studentthat had a job in fast food and was like,
I've got all this disposable income,I'm going to go buy a snowboard
(02:34):
or I'm going to support the lifestylethat I want to live.
And then as your lifestylechanges over time,
it really impactsyour spending priorities.
I really also appreciate the ideaof like those major life events,
shifting your mindset.
I think for people when they get married,that's a great example.
When they have kids,maybe when their parents get sick,
(02:57):
there are all these thingsthat like trigger, like reflection
about your own lifeand what are you going to do about that?
And then whatare you going to do to help other people?
Yeah. That's interesting.
Well, and you mentioned getting married.
Do you mind sharing if you and your spousehave had conversations
about saving for retirementand kind of what that looked like?
If we I try to have this conversationall the time.
(03:18):
See, I was raised with a lot of financialplanning and literacy
and financial conversationsaround the dinner table.
So that's a big part of it for me.
I'll bust out the whiteboard,I'll do budgeting.
You know, we'll do the whole thing. Right?
So it is absolutely a conversation.
And my wife just got a job at the state.
And so I'm very excited for herbecause, you know, now
(03:39):
we get to have the conversation about whatplan selection she gets to go through.
and you're very knowledgeable about that.
Yeah, I'm very well versed and, it's true.
I mean, having conversations with members,I do when I listen to their stories,
I think about like, “wow,this is something
that I should be thinking about now.”And it's kind of a privileged position
to be thinking about the futureat such a young age.
You know, I don't think I would have beendoing any of this had I not worked here.
(04:02):
Yeah, for sure. I felt the same way.
I mean, I also grew up in a householdwhere that conversation of: “Well,
you need to save, here's how you budgetwith a checkbook.” Balance a checkbook.
Balance a checkbook. Yes.
So it is helpful to that,but also to your point.
So now working at DRSfor the last 2 or 3 years,
I've learned a lot and [I’m] very thankfulfor having that knowledge
(04:26):
of planning now,when I'm in my 30s and 40s.
I mean,
because those plans you make now,they have so much time to change and grow.
I mean, you know,I've heard the analogy of: “If
you want a ship to goa different direction,
you just have to turn itone degree ten years ago.” Right?
And then it's going acompletely different direction and point.
And I think, you know, retirementsavings are a very similar way, right?
(04:49):
Where those times you make inyour 20s are more valuable
than the ones you make in your 30s,and so on.
Of course, pensionsystems are a little different.
But, in some ways it's similar.
Pensions, you're adding timeon, you're building service credit.
You're building up this future benefit.
So time is still on your side.
I think we hear from folkswho oftentimes wish
(05:09):
they would have started working in publicsector five years earlier.
Or you know, “How would my lifelook different if I would have started
that career earlier?” And in some ways,I think what you're saying
also connects back to that,that you can make those positive decisions
early on in your life.
But there's also differentpaths that you can take.
And you at some point you have to come to,you know, acceptance about that.
(05:31):
You can't necessarily changewhat has happened in the past,
make the best possible decisionsfor yourself going forward.
I'm curious, since you mentioned marriage,I don't think we've talked about this
with any other guests.
What sort of conversations that you haveabout combining finances or shared
checking accounts, or who pays what bill,or how you've combined finances,
especially if your spouse wasn'tworking at one point and now is working?
(05:52):
You know what that looks like
from a personal finance in a relationshipfinance situation.
Yeah, totally.
I'm just someone that's very open
with the finances and very much want to dowhat's fair and equitable.
So very quickly, when she was stillmy girlfriend, when she moved in with me,
I mean, we made a joint account togetherthat wasn't the sum of all of our money,
(06:13):
but we both put in equal amounts of moneyto it for our combined expenses.
So we paid our rent out of it,our groceries,
anything we did together,we paid out of that.
And we just say every month, I'm
putting $2,000 in the joint accountand we each would do the same amount.
And so that was how we worked it earlier.
And but now that we're marriedand we have just one account,
everything's together in it,
you know, a couple different accounts,but everything's under both of our names.
(06:35):
Yeah.
We make those decisions together, mostlyat my insistence on having a conversation
about making a decision.
But, yeah,we're very much combined on that.
Yeah, I think that's interesting.
Everybody comes to those sortsof discussions in different ways
and kind of with different baggageor different life experience.
And oftentimesit can be a point of contention.
But trying to havethose open conversations and once again,
(06:57):
with no judgment and how you come tothose conversations can be really helpful.
Do you mind sharing sort of methodsthat you use for budgeting,
whether it's, Excel sheet or,
good old fashioned pencil and paper?
Yeah.
So I don't know if all banks
let you do this, but my bank,the Employees Credit Union, will,
(07:18):
let you, like, print offyour transaction history into Excel,
and then you can turn that datainto some useful
graphs using various onlineapplications and the like.
But even if you're just kind ofcasually looking through it,
you can kind of pick a sample month
and you can just determine, okay,how much do we spend in this month?
Is this average? Take another month.
(07:38):
Use it a reference point.How close are they?
How similar are they?
And so I try to think about itin terms of things that we have to spend.
We have spent a certain amount on rent.
We have to a certain amount of moneyon these things.
And we do like a weekly date.
So, I include that as part of the budget.
That's a given.
But everything else is flex money.
So how much flex moneydo we have every day to spend?
So I take everything that's left overand I
(08:00):
say, if we don't save anything, here'show much we can spend every day.
And if you don't spend it that day,that's great. It's my money saved.
And so we both know what our kind of flexmoney spend budget for each day is.
And that doesn't count like big purchases.
Like if you want to buy something big,that's kind of its own
kind of consideration. But,
because we don't oftentimes
think about our rentas being a daily expense, right?
(08:20):
Or our phone bill as being a dailyexpense, but they are daily expenses.
They aren't just things that happenevery month.
These are things you're payingfor every day.
You just happen to pay it once a month.
I think most people my ageprobably have ten expenses
that they actually have, right?
They're pretty consistent, whether that begroceries or electrical bill or rent.
(08:41):
And it's pretty easy to addall those things together and subtract
them from your monthly income and say,here's how much money I have left over.
Yeah. You know, after this.
And that's everythingthat I have to spend on that
I consider left over,which can be quite a lot.
So figuring out how much is the leftoverpot can be the trickiest part, I think.
Nice I like that term flex money.
I like to use the bucket method.
(09:02):
So yeah, the first bucket is just generalwhat you need to get by your rent,
your utilities.
The second bucket is savings,
and then the third bucket isjust the flex money.
So yeah I try to put the
savings in the first bucketbecause then I actually do it.
Yeah, yeah.
If it's mandatory I have to. Right?
I really also like the idea
(09:23):
of thinking about your spendingin terms of daily spending
or thinking about things in terms ofmonthly spending or yearly spending, like
how much do I spend on donuts every yearversus every week or month,
because so much of our spendingis inconsistent, you know,
because it is flexibleand it's something that, you know,
some people are really good about going
(09:44):
grocery shopping once a weekor once a month or every other week.
And other people like,
I don't know, I go grocery shopping,maybe every three and a half weeks?
I don't know. It's inconsistent spending.
And I think we have a lot of thingsin our lives that follow
kind of a normal monthly cycle,because that's
how a lot of people get paidor they get paid twice a month.
But then there are thingslike car insurance that you could pay
(10:07):
once a month, or you could pay everysix months, or you could pay once a year.
And trying to think about those expensesin different time terms, length of time
to think about how you do like an applesto apples comparison.
Well, I do that all the time.
So, I'll think about
if I'm going to make something partof my daily spending habits
because I would say that, like, I'm
a pretty consistent spenderin terms of my stuff.
(10:27):
We buy groceries every week.I buy a cup of coffee every day,
and this is my worst -this is my guilty expense.
But I know that it'swhat keeps me functioning.
So it's like it'sworth it in that respect.
But I spend $5 every dayon a cup of coffee.
So it is almost $2,000 a year, for meto get that cup of coffee every day.
And I think about that as likea percentage of my wage, it's actually
pretty high.
(10:48):
It would be a huge savings thingfor me to cut that out.
But another part of me knowsthat if I start cutting that out,
then there goes a lot of my goodwillin the life and work.
So it's a worthwhile expense.
But I definitely I think about like
if you translate, for example,our weekly date lunch, I think about that.
How much does that cost us per year to do?
(11:08):
And you know, if it costs us, you know, 50bucks a week, 50 weeks a year,
2500 bucks a year isn't it's expensive,but it's worth it, right?
I mean, if in the grand scheme of things— it’s not a ton — but it's also a lot.
I mean, I don't know, it'shard to think about numbers...
So I try to think in percentages.
And that's why having the flexmoney is so useful to me
(11:29):
is thinking aboutwhat percentage of my income is already
spoken for, versus what percentageI actually get to have some discretion.
I also like, in that way of thinking,you can think about sort
of the opportunity costsof what else could I do with that money?
Is that weekly lunch worththe same amount of joy
(11:50):
or happiness as a one week trip to Hawaii?
That might cost about the same amountover the course of the entire year?
And you know, that's something you canthink about in your overall budget.
And maybe one year you make one decision.
In one year,you make a different decision.
You try to figure out where you're atis in terms of not just the cost of it,
but the utility or the happinessor other things that brings you.
(12:14):
We're talking about utility.
We're talking about marginal utility.
Yeah.
No, totally.
I mean, it's hardto quantify those things, but absolutely.
It does help putting those kind of,somewhat consistent
spending things in perspective of how muchthey actually cost you over the year.
Because like you're sayingthat cup of coffee every day,
I mean, that could be a small vacationevery year.
(12:37):
That's very real.
And that's like a good way of thinking
about how to both save moneyand how to budget.
I think because you start thinking about,well, is that $15
I spend here every weekreally worth that much to me?
And sometimes it is,and sometimes you might make a change.
Nice to look at it and go, oh,yep, there it is.
(12:58):
And this kind of is a good transition.
But, do you have any tipsfor budgeting or finances?
Maybe especially for folkswho are working as state employees,
and then also for folks who are maybeworking in the private sector?
Well, I mean, the first pieceof budgeting advice
that I really liked that I was given; it'snot super useful always,
(13:21):
but the best budgeting adviceis to make more money.
Ultimately, budgeting is a lot easierthe more money you have to budget with,
and sometimes people will try to budgettoo small of money.
They're really trying to figure out
how to make a small pile of money work,and that can be really difficult.
But as far as strictly budgeting advice,I think,
considering what you're actuallyutilizing each thing for.
(13:44):
So I think olive oilis a great example for this.
Some olive oil is for salads.
It's very expensive.
It's like 40 bucks for a little bottle.
It's delicious, but it's great.
And then there's olive oilthat's for cooking.
And it's a lot cheaper.
And it comes in much bigger bottles.
And so thinking about, “well,when I'm doing the cooking
olive oil, I should really make sureto have some of that on hand.
(14:07):
So I'm not using the fancy olive oil.”
And maybevinegar is another good example of this.
I have vinegar for picklingand I have vinegar for cleaning,
and one of them is a lotcheaper than the other.
And I love to cooksome examples are cooking here,
but just understandingI think those things can help a lot.
And then also cooking helpswith budgeting a lot.
I used to eat out a lot
(14:28):
and when I started cooking,I started saving a lot more money.
I also have a lot more fun eating becauseI was making all the food I was making.
it just the way I liked it,
and I stopped liking eating out as muchbecause I was like, “I'm better than...
I'm a better cook than these places..”
I hear you on that.
And it can be a lot healthier too,
especially if you're not usingas many prepared foods.
I mean, probably.It depends on how much butter you use.
(14:49):
I mean, you getthat flexibility then right?
I'm concerned thatI'm using the wrong vinegar for cleaning.
I mean, that I'm using the same vinegarfor cleaning and pickling.
And so now ...
That’s true. That's okay, I doI do the same. What vinegar do you use?
I just use white distilled vinegar.
I mean, that's great. Okay.
Yeah I mean if you want to use
a little rice wine vinegar,you don't have to add as much sugar
(15:10):
because it already hassome of that sweetness in there.
There are oftentimes
like seasoned vinegars which are very niceif you're going to pickle stuff
because then you geta little extra flavor in there.
I mean, you can use whatever.
Pickles are inherently a stored food.
So, yeah.
Man, I did not expect to talk aboutpickles today.
Well,I'm going to bringing things off topic.
I think it's okay.
We're a well-rounded podcast.
(15:31):
I guess
one of the topics that's come up ona lot of these conversations
that we've had with people
of all generations is kind of how you'redealing or thinking about inflation.
And I think I've said thisin multiple times, like for a long time,
people have never really thought aboutinflation or younger folks especially.
Like it wasn'tsomething that was top of mind.
(15:52):
you know, I talk to my parentsand they talk about waiting in line
for gasoline because oil embargoes andthe real hyperinflation that was scary.
And I think for the first timesince the late 70s,
a lot of usare thinking about what inflation means
and how it impacts our lives.
So I'm curious
what your experiences have beenand what kind of if there are tips
or tricks or thoughts that you've had,cooking might be one of them.
(16:14):
Yeah.
I mean, I've always considered inflationbecause from an early age
I was very involved in investmentand that kind of conversation around it.
So understanding the kind of inherent lossthat exists on money
as it sits, has always been partof how I consider money.
So as a young person,I was never buying bonds.
because I was always tryingto beat inflation by a significant margin,
(16:36):
not try to keep pace with it.
And so I think it's always been somethingI've been thinking about in that respect.
But as inflation has gotten higher,
I just haven't really founda ton of ways around this.
It really seems like a lot of the risingcosts
for me are in thingsI can't not do, like eat.
And so in that respect, to me,
(16:58):
it seems like it's more of a lifestyleshift that comes with managing inflation
than any real like hunting for bargainstip that I can find...
flour went up.
It wasn't just, you know, onebrand of flour, flour went up.
That being said, it's still a lot cheaperto bake your own bread.
You know, I can get a thing of flourfor like six bucks.
I probably get like five loaves out of it,
(17:20):
you know, like,and it's just water that I'm adding.
So like that's pretty cheap.
But at the end of the dayit used to be three.
So I do feel that.
Have potlucks, do groupcooking with your friends.
That's a great way to save money.
If you're cooking, oftentimes
it's easy to make a meal for sixpeople as opposed to two.
And if you have friends,you can split that deal off with.
(17:42):
You know,I cook a home cooked meal on Tuesday,
you cook one on Wednesday,you cook one on Thursday,
and we all share the little bits.
That's a great way to reduce those.
But I think honestly we kind ofhave to eat inflation a little bit.
The example you also touched on there,I feel like
is something that we've come back to youin a couple of other episodes as well.
It's not just about,
money, but it's also about community.
(18:03):
Like what other benefit are you gettingfrom the dollars you're spending?
I think it's one of the reasonsa lot of people will go out to eat,
because they want that social interaction.
But are there ways to create thator recreate
that in a different environmentat a lower cost and a potluck or,
you know, a social gatheringonce a week might help save money,
but it also builds your sense of communityor belonging within your friend group.
(18:27):
I think that's a really good example.
Yeah, yeah.
Inflation is something that we all haveto figure out how to deal with.
And maybe it means in some caseswe eat less eggs because those are
the things that have been most impactedat one time or whatever.
Being flexible allows you to think aboutmaybe different ways
to have that be less of an impact or to,
(18:47):
as you said, kind of absorb that impact.
Yeah,I like that idea of, community spread.
And to avoid having thisbe like a Carl Weathers talk on,
how to get the most out of your per diem,you know, from Arrested Development?
He’s getting the soup bones...
You know, I think that doing a cookout...
there's lots of public parksthat have built in cookout stations.
(19:11):
Go have a barbecue with your friends.
I mean, a lot of the packaging sizethat we’re sold food
in, is meant for a family of 4 to 6,not a group of 1 or 2.
And so a lot of times,the expensive part of cooking
is actually the waste that comes fromnot using all your food.
And if you're doing stuff with friends,a lot of that waste goes away
(19:32):
and you can have a good timebecause you get to hang with your friends.
So there's lots of great parks
around Washington statethat would appreciate the visitors.
I love it.
I also was not expecting an ArrestedDevelopment reference during the podcast.
That's going to hit another a whole notheraudience that I'm excited about.
It is kind of fun to watch...there'ssome historical cooking
channels on YouTube that I love,and one of them is like
(19:54):
pasta grannies, and they talk about pastaand grandmothers in Italy making pasta.
But there's another onethat's a little bit a little sadder.
But it's depression era cooking.
It's specifically meals that people ateduring the depression era.
And it was so funny to seeso many of my college meals
on there,
and I was like, “wow,I was doing this” like I was — I mean,
unintentionally — going back in historyand finding the same solutions they were.
(20:17):
What's an example you can think of?
So it's one of the weirder examples.
It's a variant of EasternEuropean goulash.
So it uses ground beefinstead of whole beef.
And it uses canned tomatoes instead oflike a tomato puree and paprika.
And it's basically just, a stew cookedout of those and then served over noodles.
(20:38):
And it's pretty decent.
Maybe akin to sloppy Joesor like Hamburger Helper.
It's very similar.
And this was apparentlywhat's called like Hoover stew.
Yeah, I think oftentimeswhen you look for those sort
of like historically, foods that
fed a lot of people.
I always go back to Dal and Nan.
(20:58):
So like, Indian food,that's very inexpensive to make.
I'm using lentils and flour and waterto make bread and it but it's, it's
sometimes some of the best thingsyou can eat and comforting and nourishing.
But yeah, trying to figure out whatthose foods are from different regions
and how you can make themrelatively inexpensive.
(21:19):
I'm going to go Google “depressioncooking” now and see what comes up.
Well, and so I mean we're talking aboutcooking now, so we're fully in it.
But one of my favorite like just quickhome meals is just heating up rice.
And then, have you ever heard of Furikake?
It's rice seasoning.
You can buy it from stores.
And there's like a million differentkinds of this.
(21:41):
You can get like your sesameor your toasted fish,
your kimchi or whatever,sprinkle it over and then poach an egg.
And that's just a great food to eat.
You might eat a couple bowls of it
because it's, you know,it's a little light, but it's delicious.
And it's like $0.30 to make.
Like genuinely super, super cheap.
Nice.
I'm going to have to remember thatbecause my husband is gluten intolerant.
(22:01):
So we don't do a lot of gluten.
So we do a lot of chicken and rice.
So I'm going to have to try that to mix upthe rice dishes.
Yeah.
And even you can
double up your ingredients.
If you have Hon Dashi for soup stock
you can just sprinklethat right on the rice.
It's weird to put soup stock directly on,but it's like it's
just breaking up a bouillon cubeand putting on something.
It's delicious.
I feel like this is the first episodewe've ever talked this much about food,
(22:24):
but when you talk about
like major impacts to budget; it'stransportation, housing and food.
Those are the thingsthat have really big impacts.
And if you can make headway in
one of those areas, you can free upa lot of money in your budget, or you can
create a lot of space for other savings,or savings for retirement.
And also, you know, spending for fun.
(22:44):
I appreciate that you went downthat rabbit hole with us,
because I think it was exactlywhat we needed to talk about.
Maybe some people needed to hear.
Well, it's the most flexible of the threeyou mentioned.
Oftentimes moving is a factor ofcan you find somewhere else
that's available to you in yourif you have a car payment,
you have a car payment.
You have an insurance payment,you have gas.
But you can't really change thatthat much.
(23:05):
You can walk to work, you can bus,but there is only so much you can do.
Whereas food, you feel likeyou've a lot of flexibility there.
How much you actually have can depend alot on what your actual dietary needs are.
But you know,there is some room to be had.
Yeah.
Well,I think we've really covered a lot here.
Durin, do you have any other thoughtsabout millennials and,
(23:27):
this particular moment in time?
Yeah.
I mean,I think, you know, as a millennial,
I think I was fed a lot of doomconversation as I was younger.
And, while I still resonate with thosefeelings, I think it's important
sometimes to not let go of the ideathat things can be better.
(23:49):
And that,it may not always be bad or hard,
because if we accept that as a given,then we stop doing the struggle
for things that are better.
And so even if, you know,inflation is really hard right now,
try as best you can because it very wellcould be better in the future.
I love that that's a perfect way to end.
So thanks for coming on.Yeah of course. Thanks for having me.
(24:12):
Thanks for listening.
And now we'd love to hear from you.
What topics would you like to hear about?
What questions do you have for us?
Send an email to drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov
That's drs.podcasts@drs.wa.gov.
The Department of Retirement Systemsprovides this podcast as a public service,
but it's neither a legal interpretationnor statement of DRS policy.
(24:34):
References to any specific productor entity do not constitute
an endorsement or recommendation.
The views expressed by guests are theirown, and their appearance on the program
does not imply an endorsement of themor any entity they represent.
Views and opinions expressed by DRSemployees are those of the employees,
and do not necessarily reflect the view ofDRS or any of its officials.
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