Bonus Episode: Do the Right Thing

We discuss Spike Lee’s breathrough feature film DO THE RIGHT THING (1989) which centers on race relations on a neighborhood block in Brooklyn.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
you
Hello and welcome to Get Me Another, a podcast where we explore those movies that followedin the wake of blockbuster hits and attempted to replicate their success.
My name is Chris Iannica and with me are my co-hosts Rob Lemorgis.

(00:23):
Who's coming to you live and that's the Truth Ruth.
It's the double Truth Ruth and Justin Beam.
Extra cheese is $2!
$2 for extra cheese is insane.
That is highway robbery right there.
So in 2022, in the first year of our podcast, we did a series exploring the wave of moviesthat came out in the 1990s, chronicling the urban American experience.

(00:50):
And that series was Get Me Another, Boys in the Hood.
But there was one filmmaker whose work we didn't have a chance to discuss in that series,but was key to its development.
and that was Spike Lee.
So today we have the first of two bonus episodes looking at a pair of Spike Lee filmswhich share settings, themes, and concerns with a number of the films in our Boys in the

(01:13):
Hood series.
The Boys in the Hood series was focused specifically on crime films following from Boys inthe Hood and New Jack City, but these aren't really crime films, so they didn't
necessarily fit in that purview, but we wanted to talk about them anyway, so we're gonnado a couple bonus episodes.
getting to talk about them.
The first movie, which we'll discuss today, is Lee's breakthrough film, Do the RightThing, the success of which was instrumental in paving the way for more films about urban

(01:40):
America and specifically from black filmmakers.
The second film, which we'll focus on on our next episode, is Lee's historical epic aboutthe life of revolutionary civil rights leader, Malcolm X.
Both films deal with issues of race, inequality, and injustice.
that this country has been wrestling with since its inception and continue to be part ofthe American experience today.

(02:06):
So grab a slice, turn up your boombox, because this is Do The Right Thing.
you
Scott
Pursuit Pictures presents a new film from Spike Lee.

(02:28):
Good morning, Mrs.
Mother's Sister.
Now, Mookie don't work too hard today.
The man says it's gonna be hot as the devil.
I've been here 25 years.
My son's famous pizzeria is here to stay.
Trust me.
Mookie, the last time I trusted you, we ended up with the son.
Hey, hey, Sal, I'm looking at the bros from the wall here.

(02:51):
On the wall?
Love.
Get your own place, can do what you want with...
I tell you about that noise?
What'd I tell you about that picture?
You the man.
No, you the man.
No, you the man.
No, you the man.
The first...

(03:12):
You'd to sign a petition to boycott Sal's famous pizzeria?
Hear me what you boycott that no good f**ker you need!
And that's the double truth!
Rude!
know, deep down inside, I we wish you were black.
Who told you to step on my sneakers?
Who told you to walk on my side of the block?
Who told you to be in my neighborhood?

(03:32):
I own this brownstone.
Who told you to buy a brownstone on my block, in my neighborhood, on my side of thestreet?
I can't even hear myself think!
From Spike Lee.
Director of School Days and she's gotta have it.
Good people, please!
If we don't stop this, we can stop it now!

(03:55):
We gonna do something we're gonna regret for the rest of our lives!
Doctor?
Come on, what?
Always do the **** thing.
That's it?
That's it.
I got it.
I'm gone.

(04:17):
Right Thing was written, directed, and produced by Spike Lee, who was born in Atlanta butgrew up in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood in which this film is set, in Brooklyn.
Bed-Stuy do or die.
You know it.
You know it.
Lee got his MFA at NYU's Tisch School for the Arts, where he made an award-winning shortfilm entitled Joe's Bed-Stuy Barbershop We Cut Heads.

(04:41):
He followed that with his feature directorial debut, She's Gotta Have It, in 1986.
and then his second film School Days in 1988.
Do the right thing though.
It takes things to a whole nother level because Do the Right Thing is, I gotta say, Ithink is one of those seminal films in the last half of the 20th century, you know, in

(05:03):
terms of American cinema.
It is a watershed and I'm glad for the chance to talk about it with you guys.
Yeah, me too.
This movie, I mean, the talent.
both in front of and behind the camera.
mean, there are so many folks involved.
You've got the wonderful score by Bill Lee, his dad, where, Branford Marsalis doescontribute to, and I guess I think he even contributes saxophone lick to the great Fight

(05:31):
the Power by Public Enemy.
And then you've got his sister is in it playing his character's sister.
She's great.
And you've got, as well, the great Ernest Dickerson is Dickerson is cinematographer.
did Spike Lee's.
I he worked a lot with Spike Lee from, you know, yeah, from, from the, his first shortfilm all the way through Malcolm X.

(05:58):
He, did his first six feature films and, and, and, you know, I mean, he then obviously hasgone on to an incredible directing career in his own right.
Juice, which we talked about in our boys in the hood series.
And of course guys.
Tales from the Crypt, Demon Knight.
A favorite, a favorite.
Yeah, just the talent in front of and behind the camera is amazing.

(06:21):
I mean, you have this incredible cast with Danny Aiello, Ozzy Davis, Ruby Dee, GiancarloEsposito, John Tartorio, Richard Edison, Bill Nunn, Rosie Perez, Martin Lawrence, Samuel
L.
Jackson, and of course, Spike Lee himself.
in the role of Mookie.
And I gotta be honest, it's not just that, you have a murderers row lineup of actors inthis movie.

(06:46):
I mean, you do, but that's not really what I think is so special.
What is so special is that this cast accomplishes beyond, you know, just terrificindividual performances.
They create a sense of community like few movies I have ever seen.
The neighborhood and the people who live there feel absolutely authentic.

(07:10):
Yeah, it's really a block, right?
It's block.
Yeah.
And the way that Spike presents the environment there, the way, mean, he walks us throughas the audience, every angle, every inch up high on the fire escapes down to on the street

(07:30):
and moving around and in and out of everything.
And because it's set in one day, it offers this unique perspective to really explore.
and to spend time with these characters.
That's one of the, part of the majesty of this film is how we settle in, like we're justsitting with them.
And that's from front to back.
You feel like you are part of every conversation that happens.

(07:52):
And it's this sense of, you talk about community with it, but also it's about thediversity of it.
The many personalities that are presented that have, are interacting with each other andhow they get along, who does well interacting with people who might
might function on conflict or whatever.
Some of these characters do better than others dealing with that.

(08:15):
mean, really is.
It's life.
It's putting life on one block of Brooklyn and it takes the audience and it puts you intoevery moment from front to back.
and Ernest's camera work where you're, and it's not constant, but you have several keymoments where you have little mini scenes where the camera is going in and out of

(08:38):
buildings.
So that idea of there being much less of a divide between your interior life and yourexterior life on the block.
Additionally, guess Spike had said that because he wanted that depth in background shots,
A lot of the actors were there almost every day of shooting, even if it wasn't theirscene, because, and you'll see this when you watch it, you know, they're behind them on

(09:05):
the other side of the street while the scene that we're watching is there.
And I do wonder, I just know from being on set that when everyone is around and if you'renot shooting, but you're going to be up and you're kind of hanging out with everyone, that
does create a real sense of community.
And the camera and Ernest too and Spike and Ernest, guess we could just assume from thispoint forward in tandem are also they make some decisions to put the audience into

(09:31):
characters.
Yes.
Because there are a number of times throughout the picture where you are the person acrossfrom whoever's speaking.
And so you're moving in and out of that from front to back.
So there's nothing static about this.
It moves at such a pace, even though a lot of these scenes take their time, you neverfeel.
Yeah, because you have a number of instances where characters directly address the cameraand almost a Jonathan Demme-esque way.

(09:55):
You see Demme do that a lot in his films.
And here it's there's a similar technique of, you know, speaking right to you.
They are talking to you as if you were, you know, just the other person in theconversation.
It's really extraordinary.
that actually goes to something where this that is one of several techniques that I think

(10:19):
for me, make this a film that feels like a classic American stage play from the middle ofthe 20th century.
I had the same thought.
had the same thought.
Yeah, unlike a lot of those that do transition into movies, and obviously this was writtenas a screenplay, and it's Spike Lee.

(10:42):
So while it has that feel, this is not a film stage play.
No, it isn't.
This is highly cinematic from the use of crane shots, but you do have things like thedirect address dead, dead straight on that both mirror, you know, direct address to the
audience in a play, but also do it in a way that is, you know, you know, you could sayBrechtian in the play sense, but also evokes French new wave a little bit where you are,

(11:12):
you're he's playing with those conventions at all.
And, you know, even down to the set design on these things, like that wall that he's gotbehind the corner guys.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, fire engine red.
I mean, that is not real.
Right.
I mean, it's a real corner.
It's a real situation, but that is highly stylized to evoke that feeling of the fire andthe heat and all of that.

(11:35):
So he's not afraid to, you know, play with those sorts of things in while keeping thestory extremely grounded and real.
but everything is heightened.
anyway, that, that I think all plays in with, you know, again, that, that technique youmentioned as being one of them.
The way that the characters are presented, each one of them kind of exists.

(11:56):
The one that's moving around that we'll talk about in a moment here is Mookie.
Yeah.
Mookie is kind of, if there is a conduit to everything in this film, it's him.
But outside of Mookie, for the most part, characters have their little universes withinthis block.
And again, just remember, this is all within a block, but the diversity of the settings,the fact that they're taking time, you know this apartment, you know this store, you

(12:21):
know...
outside of this story, like everybody has their own place.
And so that's what I think lends itself to the feeling of expansiveness, despite the factthat he's shooting in such a small geographic space here.
And on the point about the direct to camera stuff, the way that Spike uses that is oftenin a confrontational way.

(12:43):
It's a way to instill a sort of tension in the audience.
Most of the time when that's employed, it's like a moment where he's saying like,
sit down and listen, and then we sit down and we listen, and we don't have any otherchoice in the matter.
And that kind of style, if not handled right, I think could be really almost toouncomfortable for audiences.

(13:04):
But in his hands, and in Ernest's hands, this is mastery.
Absolutely.
To speak to Rob's point about there are elements of it that feel like it could be amid-20th century stage play, you have some of these longer scenes, scenes that go on for a
while in the pizza parlor where their characters come in and they leave and they interactwith each other.

(13:28):
And it was like, there are aspects there where it feels like it could be a play, all setwithin the confines of the pizza parlor.
like I'm like it's Chuck E.
Cheese.
don't know why I it's a pizza.
Pizzeria, pizzeria Chris.
It's a pizza parlor.
Come on.
Yeah, it's I'll get to the the the I I have thoughts about the Italian this of some of thecharacters.

(13:52):
I'll get to that.
But I guess Spike said that every day they shot someone tried to come in and buy a slice.
I believe it every day.
Yeah, I believe it.
Absolutely like you.
yeah, it's really it's really interesting because you're right, though.
It's not a filmed play.
It's not like, you know, I I love Glengarry Glen Ross, but there's times where GlengarryGlen Ross really feels like, hey, we're just doing a play with, you know, with cameras,

(14:21):
you know, capturing it, you know.
And it's great.
But it's not it doesn't have the cinematic flair that this one does.
Right.
This is definitely something created for cinema.
even though it has elements that sort of hearken back to the plays of the mid-20th centuryin particular.

(14:43):
Apparently, Spike Lee conceived the idea for the film following the 1986 incident inHoward Beach, where Michael Griffith and two other young black men were attacked by a
group of white men.
Griffith fled onto the Belt Parkway, where he was struck and killed by a car.
And it was one of several incidents, similar incidents like that in New York City in the1980s.

(15:09):
And he took that and he built, rather than trying to fictionalize a true story, he createda fictional story that ties in with a lot of the racial issues that were, again, that were
front and center in New York City at the time and obviously are still with us, you know,all over the...

(15:30):
the country to this day.
know, this, is a movie that is, that packs as much of a punch now in 2025 as it did in1989.
Yeah.
And, uh, the radio Rahim, uh, where he is choked to death was based on, Michael Stewart,who died in a choke hole when, the NYPD murdered him, uh, around that time as well.

(15:52):
Yes.
But what I, what I find interesting is that while Spike did
draw from those influences, as you said, from real life.
He also had said that following school days, he knew that his next film was going to becalled Do the Right Thing, and he didn't know what it was yet.

(16:12):
that's interesting.
It's interesting to me because as someone who attempts to do creative things as well,people always...
You really can start from anywhere.
Right.
And sometimes the weirdest things will grab you.
just that phrase, grabbing him.
And then, you know, obviously, unfortunately, there was a whole lot of real life things topull from if you're starting with that point.

(16:37):
But you can start with a title and know absolutely nothing else and wind up with thisfilm.
Well, the truth is that, and I've said this before, I don't know if I've said it before onthis show, but the creativity, for my opinion, in my opinion, creativity is defined not by
what you start with, but by the journey that you take.
You can start with anything.
I don't care whether it's
an original idea, whether it's a phrase, whether it's a title, whether it's a location,whatever it is, it's where you take it from there, not simply, some starting point has

(17:08):
more validity than others.
I think that's just not true.
I always loved how Stephen King talks about that stuff because he says he never outlines.
He doesn't come up with any kind of beginning, middle and end at all.
He creates a scenario and then follows his characters and he says their journey becomeshis journey.
And he learns along the way, along with the audience, the readers in the end.

(17:29):
And I think so many of my favorite filmmakers approach it that same way when they'rewriting to allow this universe to dictate what's going to happen next.
And there's a certain
bravery with that.
yeah.
In the right hands, man, it can, it is the ultimate freedom creatively in the wrong hands.
can just become a jumbled mess.

(17:52):
Right.
We've seen films like that.
We, all three of us have seen movies where it's quite clear that there, there wasn't anykind of cohesion in play as someone was following characters wherever they were going.
But yeah, I mean, that's just the thing with spike.
And that's why I think it makes sense here.
that we'd be spending just a day with these people, that it's a day in the life.

(18:14):
And there have been many day in the life films, but few that are so thoroughly developedwithin a runtime like this.
How close we feel our understanding of all these characters within this 24 hour period.
It's just incredible.
It really is extraordinary.

(18:34):
you talk about the characters and being able to follow people like that.
The character of Smiley played by Roger Smith in this movie did not exist in the script.
Roger really wanted to be in the movie and Spike said, well, create a character and I'llsee if I can fit him in.

(18:55):
So he came down, he had his own wardrobe, he came up with the character.
The end of the movie, which are almost the
end to end of the movie.
That shot that ends the burning of the of sals.
Yeah, where smiley finally puts the photo of Dr.
King and Martin moment.

(19:16):
And I'm sorry, Dr.
King and Malcolm on the wall.
Yeah, that moment was not scripted.
That was something that Roger apparently came up with set on set and said, What if I putthat up there?
No way!
Yeah, that's amazing.
That's what that's that.
I mean, that's spike on the, I think the 20th anniversary commentary.
So, uh, incredible.

(19:37):
mean, he is, you know, for a director as big as he is, uh, he is so, I mean, he, I thinkon that commentary, he even says, don't let ever, don't ever let anyone tell you the
director does it all.
I mean, he's very fusive about earnest contributions, the actor's contributions, everyone,you know, which, you know, I, you know, I think when you're as great as him, you, can

(20:04):
afford to be generous, but in any event that just blows my mind and to circle back to thepoint you're bringing up, Justin.
mean, you talk about following the characters.
mean, that's literally, I don't know if the ending works the same.
If his friend.
didn't want to be in this movie.
That's amazing.
It is.

(20:24):
You're following characters and then you're following the actors.
I mean, that is the ultimate trust in your creative team.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's amazing.
That is amazing.
So we open with a lone saxophone.
This is such an interesting opening.
I love the opening of this movie, because you have this lone saxophone played by BramfordMarsalis playing Lift Every Voice and Sing, which was a hymn written in the early 20th

(20:50):
century.
It was described by the NAACP as the Black National Anthem.
It is a song about liberation, it is a song about faith.
and it is a song about freedom.
it's this beautiful, it's sort of forlorn.
Like there's something about it that the lone saxophone feels a little, there's a littlesadness to it.

(21:11):
And then we smash from that into Public Enemies, Fight the Power, which is a song writtenfor this movie.
And we have this great sequence with Rosie Perez dancing.
Holy shit, it's like, talk about kicking off your movie with energy.
The opening of this movie is just full, it's all energy.
would say that's my one my only real complaint about this film is I felt like that wholeopening sequence with Rosie was So uncomfortable really because it goes on and on and on

(21:44):
and I don't I just I don't know maybe I Don't maybe I wasn't the right mindset at the timeI mean once it once the movie begins proper everything is solid for me, but this intro is
almost for me I'm like, oh god, I don't know.
I don't love this
Rosie Perez.
She's dancing in front of like these projections of brownstones.
Like I said, there's no narrative to it.

(22:05):
just, it's just, you know what it reminded me of?
And I don't know if this is intentional, but some of the Shaw Brothers martial arts filmsstart with what is basically like a Kung Fu demonstration, often against like a brightly
colored background.
You see this in, you know, 36th chamber of Shaolin, the challenge of the masters and stufflike that.

(22:25):
And it's like, this felt like that.
And I don't, again, I don't know if that was an intentional thing, but I have to imagineSpike Lee, who's obviously very knowledgeable in film, you know, is aware of those films,
you know?
And it's like, that's what it felt like to me before you jump into the main action.
I like that it gives her that, I mean, if you want to think about her character whoultimately is a side character in this thing as a whole, it's kind of neat that it starts

(22:48):
with her, that it's not like Mookie up there dancing around.
mean, this gives her that moment.
So I do really appreciate that.
I also think that it's, and this is just for me, don't, you know, and you always look forthings after the fact, but this movie, once you start the narrative, it starts very
genteel, right?

(23:08):
You can feel the ticking clock, you know, it's not shy about letting you know that thingsare going to explode.
Well, it starts with people literally waking up.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and you have the crane up to the street and then the crane backs
down from the ceiling to where a mayor is sleeping.

(23:29):
So it's like, you're coming in and out again, but, this title sequence and I just love thedancing and she there's such like a raw power there.
It's not anger exactly, but it is not.
This isn't a woman who's dancing to be ogled, you know, and there's a real power there.
And I think that for me, it functions in this old sound really stupid.

(23:53):
It functions like
the cold open action sequence to a James Bond film or something like that.
Yeah.
Where that if you didn't have that there, you might wonder how, how gentle this moviewould be because for the first 10, 20 minutes, you might think that this is, you know,
just a, very low level character drama, low level energy wise.

(24:17):
and that's not where this thing goes.
And I think it's much less surprising.
You know, you're teed up for it more because of the incredible energy and, you know, andChuck D.
Yeah, well, there you go.
And as we mentioned, the film is set on one very hot day in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, and itrevolves around Mookie, played by Spike Lee, who delivers pizza for Sal's Pizzeria, run by

(24:40):
Sal and his two sons, Pino and Vito.
And Mookie, he lives with his sister Jade.
He is trying to take care of his girlfriend, Tina, who's played by Rosie Perez, as well astheir young son.
We first see Mookie in his apartment counting money early in the morning.
It's already hot.
That's what Mookie loves.
Mookie loves money.
He's always about that money.
He's always about money.

(25:01):
It's interesting that the movie never tells us exactly what he is earning money for.
It's not like, I'm earning money to do this X thing.
It's not like they're giving them the...
It doesn't give the character a super tangible goal.
It's just, he needs money.
Yeah.
know, money is important.
Money makes things happen.

(25:23):
Apparently the way he wakes his sister up, Mookie wakes his sister up on screen is whathe, I guess he was the oldest.
That is apparently how he would wake up all of his siblings in real life when they weregrowing up and like flick their, you know, ear or whatever.
Yeah.
I brothers did crap like that to me.

(25:44):
I think the money thing is nice, Chris, because life isn't motivated by a Everybody's notwaking up like I'm working toward that boat or something.
And I think it's really relatable that it's just some guy who knows he.
Yes, no, was by no means a criticism.
I think that's great that they don't make it, hey, yeah, I'm trying to get the boat or I'mtrying to, you know, I need to get money to put my son into preschool or something

(26:10):
specific where it's more, hey, listen, this is what you need in order for life to kind ofkeep going, you know, in order for things to kind of keep moving.
That's just, that's the way of it.
I also want to point out, and I think it's interesting, you know,
You see all these characters waking up.
None of them have air conditioners.

(26:32):
It's all it's it's hot days in New York City and none of them have air conditioners.
They certainly don't have central air, which is is frankly not that common in New YorkCity because of the age of the buildings and that kind of thing.
But they don't even have window units.
They just got fans.
So it ain't, know, it's tough, tough.
It's like, it's like summer Sam where there was that, I don't remember what year that was,but where that whole thing was going down and then they had the Brown out.

(27:00):
and, and I mean, no one will be, not many people were having air anyway, but it droveeveryone out of their apartments, everyone sort of into the streets together.
And that's what's happening here, but you get the feeling that that's how it is anyway, onthis block that everyone sort of settles into their same place every day has their
purchase and we get to.

(27:21):
wander around and interact with them.
it's very much, you know, an indoor outdoor life, you know, because, know, yeah, you'regoing to be inside, but then it also flows out to the front stoop and the windows are open
and you have mother sister in the window over Brownstone, you know, saying hello topeople.
And, and, and that is one of the things that gives neighborhoods cohesiveness because it'snot just people in their cars and then going to their suburban houses with,

(27:51):
you know, half an acre of lawn around them and maybe you see your neighbor, maybe youdon't, you know, this, everybody lives together.
This might sound kind of weird, the, it, what I kept thinking about in revisiting this,had been so many years since I'd seen it of all things was Sesame Street, which is
portraying a neighborhood block in New York.

(28:15):
Exactly.
And and it really, it illustrates how, committed to that, that show was.
it's that, and if you think about it, it is that same sense of community that's at playhere where you're spending time with different characters and their spaces.
It's very much the same in terms of how that kind of storytelling is handled.
Yeah.
you live in such close proximity, everyone knows each other on the block.

(28:38):
it's very funny because that, that in many ways feels like an older small town way oflife.
Yeah.
But oddly enough that can exist in certain city, not in Los Angeles, cause now it's hereare, this is like a giant suburb, but if you're in an actual city city and you have a city
block, like we knew people on our block in Boston a little bit, you know, when we were notin the dorms anymore or whatever.

(29:04):
It's just because you actually do live so close to people you can't help but not know atleast some of them.
Yeah, here it's it's so tight knit that everyone knows everyone.
And what I think is great is that this movie I mean that you have to have that becausethis entire movie is dealing with what happens when different people live together, how

(29:29):
there will be tensions and how can you deal with those tensions or
in this case, sometimes not deal with those tensions.
And I mean, that's the whole point.
And I'll circle back to this once we're in the pizzeria, but because there was somethinginteresting about our first conflict inside there.

(29:49):
I want to mention one of the, one of the things that this is, this is a sad, this is a sadpoint because they're talking about the temperatures that, it's going to hit, you know,
the high nineties, they're talking about the temperatures.
And I'm just like, man, that seems quake.
by 21st century standards.
You guys don't even know what you're in for in terms of heat yet.

(30:10):
It's like, you know, triple digits, man, all the time.
The world's on fire and what I wouldn't give to go back to 1989 and maybe, oh, it's a highnineties day?
Sure.
I'm good with that.
It's fine.
Yeah.
I guess even back then they said that once there was studies that once you got over 95 inthe city,

(30:33):
Like, you know, the spousal killings and it's like people are crazy.
Like it was heat, heat makes people nuts.
It's just the truth of it.
And this movie, that's, a, that's a central theme of this movie.
I think it's true.
I think heat makes people crazy.
That's just all there is to it.
So while Mookie and, and, and Sal and the pizzeria act as an anchor for the story, it'sreally, again, this is really a movie about a neighborhood and you have all these

(30:59):
characters.
you know, sort of revolving around that central point.
And one element that I think really illustrates that is the local radio station 108 FMwith DJ Mr.
Senior Love Daddy played by Samuel L.
Jackson.
And he is so great.
He serves as like the voice of the neighborhood at a time when radio was still enough of amass media to feel ubiquitous.

(31:25):
It's really interesting how he is woven into
the threads of the, of this story.
His intro is one of my favorite shots when you're close on his face, because themicrophone is reflected in the sunglasses that he's wearing and the sunglasses, the lenses
are, are circular.
it kind of looks like giant cartoon eyes.

(31:49):
don't know that was an intentional thing, but I just, love it.
yeah.
It's, it reminds me again, this is something where it wouldn't happen today because
Radio mass media radio is not now everybody's listening to their own thing.
Everybody's in their own car listening to 180 channels of serious satellite radio whereyou can micro program down to the, wanna just listen to something so specific that I'm the

(32:18):
listener.
But at the time, radio is ubiquitous and people would have it on and you'd hear it.
Tarantino does something similar in Reservoir Dogs with K-Billy's Super Sounds of the 70s.
Here it's just, it's this through line in this neighborhood that they're all, there's acommon soundtrack to this neighborhood.

(32:43):
And it represents in a way the whole neighborhood because the diversity of what he'splaying, he's playing Cuban music, he's playing jazz, he's playing all kinds of things.
And there's a point where they start to, where there's kind of a rundown of differentartists historically who would relate and who have been played throughout the soundtrack
on it too, where they're actually saying the names of these different, and it starts offwith hip hop artists.

(33:06):
And then it eventually, you know, moves into the realm of jazz and notables.
And that's.
That's what he is.
So he's kind of the manifestation of everyone that's living there.
And he's also in the background of a lot of shots.
There's people just moving by him in the window throughout the day.
So he's not always directly involved with things, but when he pops in, he'll be callingout to characters.

(33:31):
He'll be calling out to someone walking down the street.
He welcomes Mookie in there to do a dedication and they're just friends and they're justclose.
So.
It's very much the sort of auditory neighborhood.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I think he never leaves the station.
So he does not participate.
does not.
While a lot of characters comment on action that's going on on the block, I believe he'sthe only one who never participates.

(33:53):
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
It's a super interesting role for him.
So and other neighborhood characters are going to just run down a couple.
I want to mention a couple of them, and we may mention more as we go.
Again, it's really an ensemble cast.
The Mayor, played by Ozzy Davis, who is an older man struggling with alcoholism.

(34:17):
Rob, you mentioned Smiley, the mentally handicapped man who sells pictures of MartinLuther King Jr.
and Malcolm X.
And of course, Radio Raheem, who's walking around with huge boombox blasting.
The only song he plays is Public Enemies Fight the Power.
Do not look that boombox up online.
You will not be able to afford it anymore.

(34:41):
I've already taken a look.
It's, it's tear inducing because if you want one that's in working order, it's going tocome from like Germany and be 1500 bucks or something.
So, my God.
No, I mean, there, there are ones that are cheaper, but I don't think they're going to beas good a quality.
And also they're all sold.
I was only finding old listings.

(35:01):
was crazy.
Good.
As an extension of that discussion about the music and how it kind of covers everybodythat's there, Radio Raheem is the just I think he's the only character who's just always
on his own.
Yeah.
Up until the climactic moment at the pizzeria, he's the only guy who and he's justwandering the streets in and out of places.

(35:23):
He interacts with people on a need basis, like need batteries, for example.
But the rest of the time, his conduit is music.
that's how he's communicating with the neighborhood.
And some people hate it, some people love it, but he's moving in and out.
And so that's what gives the soundtrack this unique blend of old and new.
And I think that that's important if you're representing a neighborhood where you'respotlighting the complete spectrum of ages.

(35:47):
Cause these characters, this isn't like a youth based movie.
This runs the generational spectrums.
And I think that that music and what Radio Raheem serves in the role of throughout thewhole thing.
is to bring us back current for a moment when he's in a scene and then to move back outand then we're settling in with some jazz or whatever might come into play.
He's a fascinating character and kind of the only lone wolf out of everybody.

(36:11):
And it's incredible, interesting how he becomes so pivotal at this most pivotal momenttoward the end of the picture.
And because he gets recruited by probably not as much of a lone wolf, but the only otherquite as solitary figure bugging out.
Yeah.
is the, you know, can recruit radio Raheem for their, the boycott at the end, which goes,to, bad places.

(36:38):
Definitely.
But even he has a relationship clearly established with Lisa.
Yeah.
so he, but you never really know much about who radio's connections are.
Is he close to anybody?
And he does have that standalone moment where he's talking about his brass knuckles andwhat they mean in reference to life and all that.
And one of those talking to the camera sequences.

(36:59):
And even in that, you're learning about him, but you're still just learning about him.
not about him within the framework or perspective of anyone else.
It's really interesting.
that that moment comes amidst when he stops and Mookie essentially says, you know, helloto him.
Hello, my friend.
Yeah.
but it, you know, it certainly does.
It seems cordial, like Mookie knows everyone on the block because he delivers pizza toeverybody.

(37:24):
But it doesn't seem like he's close to Ray, you know, me.
Well, that's why that moment where he's like talking about love and hate, right?
Yeah.
Then he's talking to Mookie about, love you.
And then Mookie's like, I love you, man.
And so there's a love, there's a camaraderie and a certain respect that's built into thatthere.
And then when radio says that back to him, radio tells him that he loves him too.

(37:47):
That I touched on this earlier, just real briefly about there are some characters who dealwell with everybody.
And then there are some who seem to have just sort of perpetual.
internal strife.
And we're going to get into that when we talk about exactly talking about Pino,especially.
when you look at what Mookie represents, yeah, he's, we don't know why he's going to work.

(38:09):
just know that he's working and that speaks highly of him.
But then also more so he walks around the neighborhood interacting with everybody whocould be.
you know, blocking the flow of his day.
gets criticized about how long he takes on some of these deliveries and they don'tunderstand the balance that he is striking within the neighborhood because he's not just a

(38:30):
face in the crowd.
He's also one who helps calm people down.
He's willing to hear someone out as like smiley as he goes on his little rant.
And then he interacts with him in a respectful way and then moves on without creating anyconflict.
it's like, okay, smiley needs this moment with me.
I'm going to give that to him.
And then he moves on to the mayor.

(38:51):
The mayor needs to talk to him for a minute about something, slip a little wisdom his way,which is where do the right thing will come up later in our conversation.
then, but, but Mookie's the one who's sort of absorbing all of that and making sure thateverybody gets what they need throughout the day.
And that's a really neat place for a character to reside in a neighborhood.
That's the small and tightly, you know, everyone's like woven into each other's fabric andjust think about how important he is to everybody there.

(39:18):
yeah.
yeah.
And Mookie is, what's so interesting about Mookie is that essentially you can divide theworld in one sense, you can divide the world of do the right thing into two, two zones.
One zone is inside sals and the other zone is outside sals.

(39:40):
And Mookie is the only one who is, who's truly at home in both.
Yeah.
He's able to move within both worlds.
He is in a sense, the connective tissue.
He's got one foot in each and he is the middle man between those two zones of the movie.

(40:00):
So we see Sal and his sons arriving at the pizzeria.
And what I thought was interesting is they don't live in the neighborhood.
We later learned they live in Bensonhurst, another area of Brooklyn that was historicallyItalian American, although.
that has changed in the years since this movie has been made.
And I wondered, I actually was thinking about, was like, did Sal ever live in Bed-Stuy?

(40:25):
He mentions opening the pizzeria 25 years earlier and that he built it with his own hands.
Was he a Bed-Stuy resident and then because of his success was able to move on up and moveto a different neighborhood?
Bed-Stuy did have.
a significant Italian population in the early 20th century, although it becamepredominantly black by the early sixties when Sal would have opened the place.

(40:52):
Yeah.
mean, and that's all because that question and you know, it's hard, you know, we, don'tknow the answer, but that I think starts to get at the heart of Sal as a character and,
both of the sons, which is one of the sons is painted as pretty solidly just racist.
Yeah.
The other is just kind of sweet and so far removed that, you know, it's, up in the air,right?

(41:18):
It's almost like not even a question.
Sal is interesting because Sal is fascinating.
Yeah.
He is painted as at times, even from our, you know, viewpoint here in 2025, there aretimes when you might think of Sal's progressive and then, but ultimately when push comes
to shove, Sal is also completely fucking racist.

(41:38):
Right.
But I would say,
Most of the characters in this movie suffer from when push comes to shove, they're goingto lash out at the people that don't look like them.
Right now, obviously that means different things for different folks and their station inlife, et cetera.
You know, that includes the police who wind up coming in, who, you know, act in, in, inthe fire department late as well.

(42:03):
But it's this idea of.
you know, some of us wear our monsters all the time and some of us, kind of comes out inmoments of stress and strife and, you know, what do do about that?
But the other thing about that is that nobody is just one.
And we're going to talk about the love and hate speech that Radio Raheem gives later.

(42:25):
but like the whole premise of that is that that sort of both things exist in all of us.
There's times when Sal, you know,
says things that are horribly racist.
There are times when Sal, as you mentioned, is almost progressive and certainly kind.
Like one of the first things we see him do is when the mayor comes in, he gives him a jobcleaning the stoop and the mayor is thrilled to be able to have that opportunity to earn

(42:54):
some money.
He doesn't want to hand out, he wants to earn some money.
Everybody in this movie has moments of complexity.
Nobody is just
You know, mean, Pino's a pretty racist guy clearly, but he even has moments where you getthe humanity behind it.
So what it means is nobody's a caricature.

(43:16):
Yeah.
Well, and what I find interesting is if at the beginning of this movie, if you were toldthat, you know, one of the Italian family members from, Sal's was going to start shit at
the end of the movie that led to the riot, you would pick him.
Yeah.
He is not.
He is the one who in that moment actually showed some restraint.

(43:36):
Right.
it's Sal who winds up going off and you know, I, it's funny just to go large.
A lot of times people want to just paint the other side as, you know, demon bad guys in,in all sorts of things.
Right.
And if people say, well, everyone's actually good at heart, but they do bad things andthey usually do those bad things out of love.

(43:58):
People think that you're, you know, it can sound like you have your head in the clouds orwhatever.
But if you think about it, and I think this movie is a perfect distillation or, you know,an example of it's actually, it'd be easier if everyone was that you didn't like was just
evil and they did bad.
Right.
It's actually, it's harder if that's not the way things are.

(44:21):
Cause it's, makes it, what do you do becomes a lot harder.
I think, you know, how do you behave?
mean, this whole movie ends with a quote from Dr.
King and a quote from Malcolm X and I,
you know, that's indicative of this whole thing.
Yeah.
And then I will, I will, we'll read those quotes at the end, but the thing about thosequotes is they're both true.
Yeah.

(44:41):
Just like the argument in Sal's that I guess we're, we're almost at anyway, we're buggingout when he, when he sits down, not the, not the extra cheese argument, but he looks at
the wall.
It's his highway robbery.
Yeah.
It sounds wrong about that.
Yeah.
Even at, even today's prices, that seems a little crazy.
It's like you get the say he's

(45:03):
He is saying that, you know, all the, you know, all all the black folks and the PuertoRican folks are in there spending all their money and there's no one on the wall that,
looks like them.
And that couldn't you have some consideration?
Cause really they're floating the whole, the whole place.
say a of words in Thai.

(45:24):
What?
How you no brothers up on the wall?
Man, ask Sal, right?
Hey, hey, Sal, how come you no brothers up on the wall here?
You want brothers on the wall?
Get your own place.
You can do what you want to do.
You can put your brothers and uncles and nieces and nephews, your stepfather, stepmother,whoever you want, you see?
But this is my pizzeria.
American Italians on the wall only.

(45:46):
And you, hey, don't stop me today.
Yeah that might be fine Sal, but you own this.
Rarely do I see any American Italians eatin' in here.
All I see is black folks.
So since we spend much money here, we do have some set.

(46:08):
You looking for trouble?
Are you a troublemaker?
that what you are?
You making trouble?
Yeah, I'm a troublemaker.
I'm making trouble.
You're a real ball breaker.
Who's coming in here looking for trouble, huh?
Suppose I busted your head, how would you-
Now, Mookie, Mookie, you wanna get your friend out of here?

(46:29):
What, you gonna kick me out now?
You gonna kick me out, I'm not kicking you out.
You're kicking yourself out.
What?
Look, we some brothers up on the wall, you know?
Malcolm X, Nelson Mandela, know, Michael Jordan.
Tomorrow.
Come on, Mookie, get him out, all right?
I'm trying to get him out.
I you paid for it.
Let's go.
Yeah, all right, all right.
You're kicking me out.
You're gonna beat me in head.
You're gonna kick me out, all right?
Yeah, okay, Yeah, all right.

(46:50):
Look, I paid for my...
Look, boycott size.
Let's go.
Boycott size.
I got your boycott size.
Boycott sound!
you laughing at?
you know, it was not delivered well in the most graceful way.
But, you know, as an argument, you're like, that makes a certain amount of sense, right?
Absolutely.

(47:11):
Sal's argument also makes sense of the, well, if you want to see black faces on the wall,start a black business, this is my business.
And you're like, that that's not insane, either.
The way that they will butt heads is not it's going to, you know, mushroom out and, andbecome just, you know,
Yes, and I want to talk about that for a sec, because we're going to get into the wall offame in one second.

(47:35):
But also, for example, Radio Raheem coming into the pizzeria with his boombox playing, youknow what?
That is loud and disruptive to people who are trying to eat.
And there is nothing inherently wrong with Sal asking him to turn off the music in hisrestaurant.

(47:55):
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's honestly it is, but it's how it gets asked and how it all escalates that is whatturns things into what it is.
Yeah.
And from, and just to do the other side from radio, Raheem side, this neighborhood, thisblock is his home.
He plays his music everywhere.
Right.
Sal doesn't even live there.

(48:16):
Right.
Like why can't he play his music in his home?
Both of those things are true.
But again, it's because it escalates and everybody loses their minds at the end.
Let's talk about the wall of fame.
Let's talk about the wall of fame.
I wanted to mention Spike Lee originally wanted Robert De Niro to play Sal.

(48:37):
And it was after a discussion with De Niro about the Howard Beach incident that Lee firstconceived of the film.
But De Niro recommended Danny Aiello for the role.
And I feel like this was the right choice because this feels like a world where Robert DeNiro exists as a person.
not where Robert De Niro would be playing a character.

(48:57):
I don't know if that makes any sense, but he's on the wall of fame, along with Pacino,along with Joe DiMaggio, along with Frank Sinatra.
And the wall of fame is basically just a bunch of pictures of Italian-Americancelebrities.
And the point of contention is that there's no black celebrities on the wall when theclientele is predominantly black.

(49:18):
And as you mentioned, Rob, that in some ways,
Bug It Out is right, and also Sal is right.
On the one hand, it's like, you know what?
You got a black clientele.
Why aren't there any black faces on the wall?
Sal's right, and it's his place.
He owns it.
He can do what he wants.
Well, it's also the gimmick because we know restaurants that are like this.

(49:41):
you go, there are many here in the Midwest, especially I can say, and I'm sure out East,there are lots of restaurants.
it's an Italian restaurant, that's going to be part of the ambience part of the vibe.
And Sal chooses not to have music in his restaurant.
even says at one point, you listen, there's no music.
That's what he says to radio when he comes in with his boombox and all that.

(50:01):
So Sal doesn't choose to indulge in playing music.
But he pays homage to people who seem relevant to the Italian culture because that's kindof what he's serving up there too.
What I think is hysterical and just is it's not like the pictures on the wall are signed.
It's not like, these are people who have all been to the pizzeria.
I'm putting them up.
It's just a bunch of random picture of Italian.

(50:23):
I mean, it's not, it's not like my car wash guys where there's an autographed picture ofClaudia Christian from Babylon five.
You know, it's, this is just a bunch of random people.
Truth be told, if Sal was, was less stubborn.
He would put some celebrity pictures of black celebrities up on the wall just for the sakeof his business.

(50:45):
Put up Eddie Murphy, put up Prince, you know, but in the end he's too proud to do it.
it's especially interesting because at a different point, Sal also talks about, I believe,DeFino, how proud he is that the people in this community have grown up on his food.
He's been serving the food for so long and everyone comes here and everyone's welcome.

(51:07):
Yes.
Again, just the complexity of a character who is proud that he's been able to serve foodto folks.
He's proud that his place is for everyone except, if it's going to be for everyone the waythey want it to be.
Right.
It's going to be for everyone the way he wants it to be.

(51:29):
You see the conflict in him from the beginning.
You do.
You really see a guy and it's not immediately apparent, but he even says it later on.
He's it's struggling.
It's not like his business is booming there.
It's not like, cause you know, he even talks about having to pay people at the end of thenight.
Yeah.
He wants to make sure they're coming back to finish their shifts.
But they use.
a payphone for, for to-go orders, man.

(51:50):
Like they don't even have an actual phone.
I have no idea.
Get a phone line, man.
You know.
The conflict in Sal, I think is evident from the beginning, but it doesn't seem to beabout anything other than his, you can see him processing.

(52:11):
This doesn't seem to be working like it used to.
And I don't think that has anything to do with the community or the people, thedemographic of the community or anything.
I really think it's more, it's an older, it's just a business that might not be asrelevant.
to the people around there as is what it once was.
And he talks about that.
And then we keep dipping into this conversation that he eventually has with Pino, his son,when his son is who's a straight racist and just wants out.

(52:42):
I mean, when we meet Pino in front of the restaurant at the beginning of the picture, whenthey're opening it up for the day, Pino is already upset about even having to be there.
He hates it.
He hates the business.
hates people.
that they're even engaging in this anymore.
And there's this, that moment where he, where, where Sal and Pino are sitting at the tableby the window.

(53:04):
That I think is arguably Sal's strongest moment in the whole film.
it is.
Yes, absolutely.
the way that he engages with his son.
And it's a father to son conversation.
It's a business owner to employee conversation.
And it's also this cultural conversation.
And you, even in that moment, even as he's trying to convince his son down from his angerand to embrace this community and stuff, even in that, can see there's conflict within Sal

(53:32):
about it.
Because he's frustrated things aren't like they used to be.
But that's not because of the people who are coming in.
What matters to him
is exactly what you guys said a minute ago.
These people have grown up on my pizza, on my food.
And he said, I'm so proud of that.
And then he's talking to Pino.
Pino's like, my friends don't ever blah, blah, blah.
And he's like, well, do your friends support you?

(53:53):
Are they putting money in your pocket?
laughing at you, they're not your friends.
That's exactly right.
Yeah.
I mean, how.
I love that scene.
I love that scene between the father and son.
One of my favorite scenes in the whole film.
is beautiful.
Anyway, to the complexity of South, that I think is on exhibit from front to back, is thatthis is a conflicted guy that has nothing to do with racial lines until he gets pushed

(54:19):
over at the end.
he's got these things lurking under the surface even though it's so interesting.
There's language that gets used in that scene that I don't want to use the clip.
It's so emblematic of the movie because it is this quiet, beautiful scene between a fatherand a son, but there's also some horrific racism.

(54:49):
on display, in particular on the part of Pino.
And again, this is a movie where love and hate live side by side.
And you see it in this scene, and it's true of the movie as a whole, is that these thingsexist, the good and the bad exists right next to one another on the same block.

(55:09):
And this is the racial issues get examined from many different sides.
You know, the, are the only, you know, quote unquote white characters in the movie.
So that, you know, all of that side of things gets out with Sal and his sons.
But from the lack perspective, you rotate around through the whole neighborhood.

(55:30):
so, you know, the corner guys for instance, are they have, and, and you've got the great,what the late great Robin Harris, who's hilarious in this movie is, what, my God, is it,
is it a sweet dick?
Oh yeah.
Sweet Dick Willie.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
He's so funny in this movie, but where you have two of the corner guys of the three arecomplaining about the Korean, you know, vegetable stand.

(55:58):
Uh, yeah.
I'm talking about how they're, they're recent immigrants and they've only been here a yearand they already have a story and they're, you know, going off about how it should be a
black store and all of that.
And, um, you know, uh, Willie gets up and he's just, you know, he's like, stop it.
the same old stuff.
If you wanted to essentially saying, you know, if you wanted to start a store, you would,but you're not going to do shit.

(56:21):
I'm going to go spend my money over there because I want a beer.
And on that 20th anniversary commentary, Spike talks about that being kind of a longstanding debate in the black community.
You know, when you see more recent immigrant groups come in and start businesses in yourown neighborhood and you're like, well, why is, why are they being able to

(56:43):
do this and not us.
And you know, you, you open up those questions of in this movie again, I think is notgiving answers to any of this stuff and very pointedly not giving answers.
No, but it even ties into like the conversation that furious styles has in boys in thehunt where he takes them down and you know, the, the, you know, the bit about

(57:04):
gentrification and the need for black owned businesses and, and black money.
And you know, it's, it's the Korean grocery store.
It is really interesting because they point out, the guys on the corner point out, it wasa boarded up building before the Koreans came and opened the store.
It's not like, they bought out a business from under somebody.

(57:26):
There was nothing there first.
It's real interesting.
But no one's nice to that Korean couple the whole film the only one is Demare is the onlyone who ever gives any kind of Considerate conversation literally everybody else who goes
in that store is confrontational with them and and some of them straight-up Racist aboutthem learn some English go back to crew go back to China or wherever you came from stuff

(57:50):
like that So that's at play with them from front to back and here they are
trying to do their thing over there and you even see among them in the background inseveral scenes that couple is fighting out in front of their store.
It's just like conflict is inherent in that place.
It's very strange.
It's just interesting the way Americans react to when immigrants open businesses inAmerica.

(58:18):
It's a continual cycle, the American immigration and integration cycle that has gone onfor Jan Reus, the Star of the Irish and the Italians, and then it goes on to other groups.
The area that I grew up in New Jersey has a very large
Indian American population from from you the Indian subcontinent It's one of the hubs ofIndian immigration into America and I remember That there was a there was a stretch of of

(58:48):
businesses along the road I'll say Oak Tree Road in Edison, New Jersey and you go back tothe 80s and that was a lot of closed storefronts and What happens a little over time?
Indians came in and they opened
restaurants, opened sari shops, they opened, and I would hear people, people who lived inthat area every once in while complain about it.

(59:14):
You know, it's all these Indians are coming in and they're buying all the businesses,they're taking over.
And I never understood it.
My dad, I remember never understood it because it was always like, these were emptystorefronts and now it's a thriving, like main street of stuff that is thriving on Friday
and Saturday nights.
pumping money into the economy.

(59:35):
it's a whole, it's so, and again, it's something that I think is not just, it's animmigration thing that I think the way Americans often view the people who come here.
it's just, it's interesting, because I thought of that when watching this movie and theway they were talking about the Koreans who opened this store, which was nothing.

(59:58):
It was a...
Abandoned building.
then you get in the mix with all this is you get the white guy with Larry Bird jersey todo the gentrification coming in as well.
Yeah.
knew we were talking about that scene.
That scene is, is fantastic.
Yeah.
I mean, this is like 1989 gentrification.

(01:00:19):
Yeah.
Yeah.
now there, but,
Yeah, that scene where we have the bike rider played by John Savage who accidentallyknocks into bugging out and in doing so scuffs his brand new sneakers.

(01:00:43):
You almost knocked me down man.
The word is excuse me.
I'm sorry.
Not only did knock me down, you stepped on my brand new white Air Jordan.
I just bought and that's all you can say is excuse me.
Are serious?
Yeah, I'm serious.
I'll fuck you up quick two times.
Two times.
Who told you to step on my sneakers?
Who told you to walk on my side of the block?
Who told you to be in my neighborhood?
I own this fucking store.
Who told you to buy a fucking stone on my block in my neighborhood on my side of thestreet?

(01:01:06):
Yo, what you wanna live in a block neighborhood for anyway, man?
Motherfuck gentrification.
as I understand...
country.
Man can live wherever he wants.
free country man I should fuck you for saying that stupid shit alone yo man, you fucked updamn man, you might as throw them shit out them shit is broke man, they looked at it good
before he messed them up he did this shit on purpose man he was even talking about yourmom you called that shit to me because he's so fine how much you pay for them?

(01:01:32):
100 bucks!
Americans are 108 with tax!
give my head a A you lucky the black man has a loving heart next time you see me comingman you call the street quick
outta here.
gonna break his feet!
Take his dog!
I should make you buy me another pair!
Who the f*** that?
Mike!
You're lucky I'm a racist black man, I'm about to be in serious trouble, man.
Serious!
Fuck him up!

(01:01:53):
Damn, that was fuckable!
Still want to move back to Massachusetts!
Born in Brooklyn.
The sneaker is so interesting because it highlights that, that, I mean, thatgentrification process was just starting in Bed-Stuy and neighborhoods like it.
And holy shit, would it really accelerate in the decades to come?

(01:02:16):
There is part of me that I'm watching this movie and some of these characters, theconflict with them.
And I'm like, I want to grab him and be like, Hey, you got to be worried about this guy inthe Celtics Jersey.
He's not from here.
He was born in Brooklyn, Chris, which he said he that's his, his punch line as he'sfinally going into his Brownstone and they were like saying, get, get your ass back to

(01:02:44):
Boston or whatever.
And he's like, I was born in Brooklyn.
And then literally everyone's just like, that moment is very funny, which I also say, youknow, we've talked about having stuff.
This movie deals with heavy and real issues.
This movie is also.
hilarious at times.
It has a tragic ending, there is the, is not a downer of like throughout it.

(01:03:08):
It is carried by interesting characters, funny characters, and, their interactions areinteresting.
Again, its culmination is ultimately tragic, which we'll, we'll get to, but like it is notthrough most of the movie, a tough picture in the, in the sense that
in the sense that something like Menace to Society is just a harrowing movie to watch.

(01:03:32):
Yes.
You know, this is not that.
So, I want to...
else?
This is so much in this movie.
You know, we follow Mookie as he makes deliveries, he encounters various people.
He has that encounter with the mayor who gives Mookie the title drop telling him always dothe right thing.
And the thing about the mayor is, you know, the...

(01:03:56):
He has the moral compass of this movie, even though he's struggling, clearly strugglingwith alcoholism.
Other characters make fun of him for being a drunk, but he has a moral compass.
Always do the right thing.
But what this movie doesn't necessarily answer is what is the right thing?
And the mayor is right, by the way.

(01:04:18):
Don't shop at a store that doesn't carry Miller Highlife.
Like just straight up guys, that's the champagne of bottled beers.
and it is absolutely the best beer to have on hot day.
That was so funny because he gets one can of beer and the next scene he is absolutelyblasted stumbling around.
That's one of the more confounding elements of this whole thing is like his drunkenness,it wavers throughout the day where sometimes he can hardly open his eyes and sit up.

(01:04:46):
And then other times he snaps into just like very coherent, very present conversation withpeople.
But I always thought, just think it's so funny that this one can of what did he buy?
Miller Lite or something that he said.
He had to settle for Miller Lite because they didn't have a high life, which is a problem.
So he buys a can slips it into a little paper bag and this is just like a little can not a40 not anything big and he's absolutely off his ass drunk within minutes off of that can

(01:05:15):
of very light beer.
I think that's so funny and odd.
What it's interesting about Demare is that, you know, like, he's one of the things heserves to do is to highlight the difference between Sal and his son Pino, because Sal is
very sympathetic to him.
you know, he gives him a little bit of money.

(01:05:35):
You you see, you know, kind of the heart that Sal has because he's got a heart.
And Pino, you know, he just wants him to go away.
He refers to him as a azupep.
which is an Italian slang for nothing.
You know, so it's like saying, he's a nobody.
What's interesting to me there and having it come out literally, you know, said in, thedialogue is that I think looking back, that is a good marker for if Sal is going to be

(01:06:07):
nice to a black person or not is does Sal feel that he is above them giving kind of likegood charity.
Yeah.
But
But when someone asks to be on equal stature with him, that is usually when he loses it.
Yeah.
That's That's your whole, you're right.
I think it's interesting by the way.

(01:06:27):
And I alluded to this before.
think that Pino, it's interesting that Pino is more outwardly Italian than his father.
Like he uses Italian, you know, slang, know, Italian language.
And it's this thing that I think happens and it's, it's
I think it's super interesting that when people sort of retreat into their own ethnicstereotypes as a means of providing identity, like Pino is one more generation removed

(01:06:58):
from the old country than his father.
And, you know, but he acts super Italian and it's just, it's interesting.
I've seen that a lot, you know, it's, that's, you know, maybe I've even done it on a As mywife,
as my wife tells me, she, she's like, no Greek people have columns or a little model ofthe Parthenon in their home.

(01:07:25):
But if you're Greek American, you may.
Yeah.
And no, no value judgment, but of that, like, yes, if you feel that you're holding on moreto something that feels more tenuous, you know, because of the distance.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's interesting.
It's interesting.
Again, the neighborhood here is so well, I mean, just it's such a great portrait of all ofthese people.

(01:07:53):
And it's a movie about a neighborhood.
It's not a plot heavy movie, which is why I didn't want to go through it the way weusually do.
mean, what, with the plot, guess, as it is sort of revolves around Buggin' Out, who hastaken umbrage the fact that there's no.
black faces on the wall of fame trying to organize a boycott of Sal's.

(01:08:14):
But even that plot, it comes in, it weaves in from time to time.
We come back to bugging out, he's pissed off and he's trying to organize this boycott.
What I find interesting is that Furl, he has very little luck organizing that.
But he's going around to people trying to organize the boycott.
They literally laugh at him.

(01:08:37):
Like we love Sal's pizza.
Well, you know, like we, you know, it's the only guy that he kind of gets at least fromthe outset is radio Raheem.
Yeah.
And that's pretty deep.
But, you actually get one of my favorite, jokes in the movie when, bugging out tries toget the corner guys, you know, on in on the boycott and, you know, Willie says you want to

(01:08:59):
boycott someone.
You ought to start with the goddamn barber that fucked up your head in reference to his.
you know, newer younger haircut, which the old guys aren't down with.
But I also this is another one where in playing with the boycott and all of this and theidea and where the film goes at the end.
Smiley, this entire movie is trying to sell posts his pictures with the very famous photoof Dr.

(01:09:27):
King and Malcolm X.
Literally no one wants it.
Everyone is annoyed with him.
He's probably selling it every day.
It's not like he's changing what he's selling.
He's probably been selling that forever.
Absolutely.
Mookie's not annoyed with him Mookie deals with him very well and very diplomatically verykindly
of it later in the film when Mookie is stressed about other things, he tells him he's, hedoes say like, get the fuck out of here, but it's not like angry or anything.

(01:09:52):
It's just like, you know, it's, it's the only language I, you know, that smile is going tounderstand is you have to really tell him to go away.
But, know, just given that bugging out whole boycott about putting, you know, black faceson the wall at Sal's, and here you have arguably, you know,

(01:10:14):
two very large presences.
and the only photo they took together, I believe was, was that one.
That's a famous.
And, and it's just because that's part of the everyday it's ignored.
I mean, you know, I just think that having that interplay, it's just interesting, youknow, how people will often ignore things until they don't, know?

(01:10:35):
And it's, it's also interesting that like when, when, when, when bugging out first goes,like he goes in his first scene,
in the, when he goes into the pizza place, he orders a slice.
That's the, the $2 extra cheese scene.
Um, it's interesting that Sal, as you mentioned, because, you know, again, he's trying toessentially put himself on the same level.

(01:10:58):
This is the point where, where Sal is the one who is quick to anger and pulls out thebaseball bat from behind the counter and Pino who has been the more aggressive one up to
this point.
He's the one who calms his father down.
You see him kind of quietly take the baseball bat out of his father's hand.
To me, is so, it's the crux of this movie that the capacity for bad and good is withineverybody.

(01:11:25):
And it exists in each of us and no one's got a monopoly on it.
And it's just, it's so interesting.
Even the cops, same thing with the cops.
There's two cops that have been driving around all day.
They are going to get involved in the violent act that will kick off the climax of thisfilm.
But there's a scene earlier where they're pretty lenient with a group of kids who haveopened up this fire hydrant on the hot day.

(01:11:49):
And even when the guy driving through gets his car soaked and he starts getting into itwith the cops wanting them to make arrests, Billy Batts wants the cops to make some
arrests.
It's Frank Vincent is the actor's name.
It Billy Batts and Goodfellas, Philly Tartow and the Sopranos.
If you needed an Italian American asshole, Frank Vincent was your guy.

(01:12:12):
He was so good at playing that.
And he gives the cops a hard time about making arrests.
But the cops are like, hey, you know what?
We're not arresting anybody here.
But again, what they do later is unconscionable and is horrible.
And that scene where the cops are rolling through just driving down the street.
think that spike handles that in a really interesting way where every it's like eye to eyekind of like that.

(01:12:37):
see you from across the room look from that they're giving everybody that's sitting outthere.
And then you're moving, you're panning across and cutting across all these differentresidents that we've already come to know.
And there's just silence when these cops roll through all the conversation, everythingthat's been.
kind of crescendoing over the course of the day at that point goes on mute.

(01:13:02):
And as the cops roll through, it's just staring at them to see what they're gonna do, whothey're gonna pick out, what's the problem gonna be today.
And the cops are looking right back at them with this kind of smarmy half smile on hisface, the guy driving not so much, but the guy in the passenger seat, just giving them the
eye like, you know, we have the power.
And so it's good you're being good right now kind of a thing.

(01:13:24):
A powerful moment that'll mean a lot more at the end.
Yes, yes, indeed.
And, uh, yeah, I mean that the tension there is, is insane in that moment.
Great shots too.
Um, uh, I did just want to mention one of the officers, the one who turns off the hydrantand the one who winds up killing Rahim at the end in the chokehold is Rick Aiello.

(01:13:47):
Danny Aiello is of his sons.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I want to, I want to, I want to talk about radio Rahim and the,
speech that he gives because it's one of the pivotal and most memorable moments of thefilm where, you know, Radio Raheem wears a brass knuckle ring on each hand.
And one says love, the other says hate.

(01:14:11):
Peace!
Where are you headed?
I'm going to get a slice.
You going down to South?
Word.
I gotta make you deliveries and I'll check you back there, right?
On the rebound.
All right.
Oh, shit!
Let me check it out.
That's the hype!
Louis Latus.

(01:14:32):
Let me tell you the story of right hand, left hand.
It's a tale of good and evil.
Hey!
It was with this hand that Cain iced his drug, love.
These five fingers, they go straight to the soul of for writing the hand of love.

(01:14:55):
The story of life is this.
static.
One hand is always fighting the other hand.
And the left hand is kicking much ass.
I mean it looks like the right hand love is finished.
But hold on, stop the presses, the right hand's coming back.

(01:15:17):
Yeah, he got the left hand on the ropes now, that's right.
Yeah.
it's a devastating right hand.
Hey, this hurt.
Damn.
left hand hate.
KO'd by love.
If I love you, I love you.
But if I hate you...

(01:15:39):
Here it is, love and hate.
I love you, bestie.
Reid Raheem, Pekele.
Peace.
way he describes the struggle between love and hate as almost these two external forcesthat everybody has to contend with.

(01:16:01):
And I love the image of the boxing match, like, hate's gonna win.
no, wait, love's getting back into it.
It's so evocative of the things that I think everybody struggles with.
And sometimes things happen in the world that you find are hopeless.
I get down about things that are

(01:16:21):
You know, just seem like, God, there's no, what's the way out?
But you never know.
Cause love battles back.
It's, really interesting.
you look at the movie and radio Rahim is a character throughout it, is until the end, heis one of the absolute most restrained characters.
Yes.
He is very clearly a big man who you don't mess with in the neighborhood, right?

(01:16:47):
even in that fire hydrant scene with a whatever the Johnny,
hose or whatever that you're doing the cans.
they stop so that when Rahim comes by, because they, he's like, doesn't want them to sprayhis, his his boom box clearly.
And they let him go, you know, and then they start spraying again.
And then that's when they get the, guy's car right after that.

(01:17:10):
But, you know, he, he really doesn't do anything until after Sal smashes his boom box.
And then he takes Sal over and they start to fight.
but until that point,
you know, Rahim himself is on the side of love for the most part, though he does havethat, you know, he's clearly going up and, know, trying to play the tough guy at different

(01:17:32):
points.
Sure.
But he never acts on it.
And, you know, you talk about the love and the hate on the hands, that shot when he isdead on the ground at the end of the movie, the hand that is extended that you can see is
the love.
And you know, you could read that many different ways.
Has love been KO'd at the end?

(01:17:54):
Or is it that, you know, love will prevail because that is what is left?
You you can read this movie many different ways.
yeah, no, I, that is...
God, I hope it hasn't been KO'd.
My goodness.
Again, this is a movie that I, when I was doing the notes for it, it was difficult becauseI don't, it's such a, it's not an

(01:18:18):
it's not narratively driven in the way a lot of the movies we've looked at is, where it'slike, well, this happens and then this happens.
It's just this swirl of vignettes, you know, of, mean, there's this whole subplot with DeMayer who, you know, clearly has a crush on mother's sister and wants to war.

(01:18:39):
She doesn't want to give him the time of day until he nearly gets killed saving a kid inthe street, literally diving and...
and pushing a kid out of the way and then she starts to warm to him a little bit.
it's, they're just these little moments of these characters' lives in this one particular.

(01:19:01):
I think that's a really sweet moment where he goes and gets the flowers and again This isthe only kindness anyone shows to the Korean shop owners Yes when he goes over and wants
to buy flowers and the woman who runs it with her husband She kind of assumes he's gonnabe a problem or something.
Well, what do you want kind of a thing?
I want to buy some flowers.
You want all of them?
They're gonna be expensive Like she's almost assuming there's gonna be some issue.

(01:19:25):
He's like, yeah, I'll pay for it and Then the next thing he's got him in a little
vase and he shows up at mother sister's window with them and she doesn't want to haveanything to do with him.
know, as, as always, here's another day, another shot that he's taking, but he's so kindand sweet in that moment.
And he sets them up there and you know, in the summer around and nothing beats the smellof flowers.

(01:19:48):
He says in the summer, all you can smell is garbage.
And he says, it's so nice to have a escape or something.
I'm paraphrasing there, but it's such a sweet little moment that ends up.
Later on, it's kind of neat when the coda to the film after everything else has happenedbetween these two that we'll get to.
I just think that's a nice subplot that they don't hammer on too heavily between these twobecause he means so much to everybody.

(01:20:14):
The mayor means something to everyone.
There's that group of youths, I guess we can call them for lack of a better term that haslike Martin Lawrence.
Lawrence the guy who's reading the Black Panther comic
Yeah.
And that conversation that I guess I'd say interaction that they have, not really much ofa conversation with the mayor when he's sitting on the step.
This is one of the moments where he's just seems blasted drunk, but it's a real age gapissue that's being presented there.

(01:20:42):
That within this small space, there are people of all ages, but there's some that theyouth think that they can get, they can get a one up.
And with him,
They see him as a second-class citizen because they see him just as a drunk.
They don't know what we know as the audience, which is, this is actually a verycompassionate guy who's been putting out fires between people all day and is trying to

(01:21:05):
build bridges all the time, all around him.
mean, he's a tireless in his effort to connect with people.
Even in that moment, he doesn't start saying, he doesn't throw it back at them likethey're throwing at him.
what he throws back at them is that there's a time for compassion and respect.
And you know what I mean?

(01:21:25):
It's a unique boiling down of cultural divide based on age within this subgroup of peopleon a block in the city.
overall though, front to back, most people are kind to him and he...
He it's really him and it's Mookie.

(01:21:45):
It's those two who are the connections between everybody.
If there was a family tree on this block, they would both have branches that toucheverywhere.
Absolutely.
And just to touch with the mayor and mother sister's relationship a little bit more,because it's one of my favorites in the movie, you know, character pairings.

(01:22:07):
And, you know, they are judicious.
They only get so many beats to, you know, throughout the movie to kind of progress things.
But even though by the end they wind up together, not necessarily romantically, but atleast a friendship.
But it is bittersweet.
earlier in the film when she is still, you know, fairly biased against the mayor anddoesn't want them around.

(01:22:31):
He, he says to her one day, you're going to be nice to me.
Yep.
And that's a bit of a paraphrase.
And of course at the end of the movie she is, but it's because of what he did in the faceof the incredible tragedy at the end, you know, both in, in trying to mitigate the riot.

(01:22:52):
in whatever way he could, also in comforting her in the face of that tragedy.
So when he passes out, she winds up, you know, bringing him in and she lets him sleep inher bed.
And when he wakes up in the aftermath of everything, he even says, did you sleep?
And she said, no.
So she was watching him all night.

(01:23:14):
anyway, it's, it's so bittersweet and they, they share that moment.
you know, of, friendship.
And as they go out and kind of see that, you know, life has changed, but life goes on andthey, know, I think they talk about that.
They're still here.
You know, you get that kind of survivor moment between them and clearly about more thanjust the incidents of the last 24 hours.

(01:23:39):
you know, you get to be older and, know, I'm not even that old, but you, get to that pointin your life where
You know, if people are still around, you know, they've seen some shit.
That's a nice moment with them.
She has that real powerful line there.
Well, they're, getting up and sort of considering everything that's happened.
And he, he says, I hope the block is still standing and she, without a, without a pausegoes, we're still standing like, like pow.

(01:24:08):
Ruby D is so, it's so great in this Ozzy.
I mean, we should mention our two of them.
I mean, absolute legends.
mean, not just even in acting, but as, as, as, as advocates for, for social justice, youknow, I mean, they are, I mean, yeah, I mean, again, I'm going to say legends cause that's

(01:24:32):
the, that's the word that comes to mind, but it is, is just, it doesn't even quite like,
cover it because it's geez, you know, they are and it's amazing and they're so great.
Absolutely.
At the end when we are reaching the climax, so I don't know, did you want to get into thewhole climactic thing where radio comes in?

(01:24:53):
now is the time to do that.
As the sun goes down on the day, that's when we're starting to get into where this is allgoing to go.
And it's interesting, as the sun says, Sal is counting money and he's talking about how hehad a great day financially and he tells his sons that he's gonna rename the place Sal and

(01:25:19):
Sons.
because he is there, he is gonna stay there, he doesn't wanna go anywhere.
We haven't touched too much on John Torturro.
He's amazing in this movie in what is a tough role because to be that kind of negative ora racist character, I think in some ways for someone who is not that way, is tough to

(01:25:44):
play, to say those things.
But the look on John Torturro's face,
while Sal is talking about how, you know, he's going to rename it Sal and Sons, becauseyou kids are going to take over the business anyway.
It's this look of both disbelief and abject terror.
It's amazing.
not just him.
mean, Vito looks unhappy about this.

(01:26:06):
Sal mentions how there will always be a place for Mookie to have a job here.
Mookie looks like hell no.
I mean, all three of them.
Nobody wants to do this for the rest of their lives.
No.
And Sal just is, you know, he is not living in reality here.
He can't see things as they are.

(01:26:27):
He only sees them as he wants them to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's so, so, but Sal, let's in a last few customers into the store, even though they'retechnically closed.
After close.
After they close.
If Sal hadn't tried to be so magnanimous, he wouldn't have been, you know, because

(01:26:48):
what he did to help start the whole riot.
Yes.
Like, yes.
It's interesting.
It's love and hate.
It's good and bad.
Love and hate.
All together.
It's, yeah, he, it's Mookie who's like, you know, we're closed.
Get out of here.
It's so interesting.
Like Mookie, I talked about him as sort of this middleman because the first half of themovie, he wears a Jackie Robinson number 42 Dodgers jersey.

(01:27:13):
But in the second half of the movie,
he wears a Sal's pizza Jersey.
that, that moment when he switches those jerseys, it's not just him going home to showercause he goes home to see Tina and his son finally.
And you have a bit of a little sexy scene with the ice with him and Tina, not to step outtoo much.
There's so many great relationships and character pairings in this movie.

(01:27:35):
I did just want to bring it up cause that, that is one and Rosie Perez is so excellent inthis movie and especially in her scenes with Mookie.
Yes.
But you know, it's just, there's so many, it's hard to touch on everybody.
Anyway, I just wanted to step out for that for one sec.
Oh, for sure, for sure.
Cause she is, she's great.
And again, very real.
This was her first, this was her first, I think film role.

(01:27:59):
Like this, hadn't done anything before.
Obviously she's gone on to a fantastic career.
But this was the very start of it.
So, it's, but it's Mookie who lets, who doesn't want to let people in.
Sal says let them in.
So they come in and they're, you know, four slices and then we're out.
then before long, Radio Raheem and Bugger enter as well.

(01:28:21):
And this leads to another confrontation over Raheem's boombox.
And at this, this is the point where everything starts to spiral out of control.
Everybody starts yelling, slurs get thrown around.
And then Sal pulls out that baseball bat and he smashes Raheem's boombox.

(01:28:43):
And Raheem, who has been a more sort of, you know, kind of reserved figure throughout thismovie, honestly, even before the baseball bat comes out, everyone's shouting and you can
just feel the tension rising.
is it's honestly it's incredibly directed scene in terms of just escalation.

(01:29:05):
It's amazing.
and terrified.
Sal pulls out the baseball bat and smashes Raheem's boombox.
And there's a beat where like for a moment, you don't know what's going to happen next.
And the one girl that's in the place, she's alone in the booth.
The guys have kind of moved into the fray, but she just looks absolutely terrified.

(01:29:28):
nobody stops to notice or care that this girl is scared out of her mind.
the scene in this moment, as you said, this is another part, I think of, of, as you say,of good tragedy in that it does feel inevitable.
I think in, there, there are ways that that feels smart, you know, and here it feels likeby the time you get to this confrontation, there was no, no one was going to be able to

(01:29:56):
stop this from happening.
And that's the tragedy.
Like the entire day built to this moment.
And once you get here, it's, it's over.
Like,
There's still, we're still going to watch it play out, but there is, there's no stoppingthis, you the ball from rolling down this hill at this point.
there's so many times it could have deescalated.
So it didn't go to where it was like, that's the thing.

(01:30:16):
And that's the tragedy is like, you're like, no, no, just, just pull back.
Just don't, but it would require these people to, to be other people.
Like these people couldn't stop it.
Maybe other people could have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sal couldn't, Buggin couldn't, Raheem couldn't, know, the cops, you know, couldn't, thecrowd.

(01:30:41):
mean, everyone at this point is going to play their, terrible roles.
Again, calling back to our last episode with, with a really effective tragedy, you canalmost believe that maybe just maybe these tragic consequences can be avoided, but at the
same time, Amleth had to do
what he was gonna do, otherwise he wouldn't be who he was.

(01:31:03):
In this case, these characters had to behave the way these characters were going tobehave, because at that point it had reached this tipping point where the end was
inevitable.
you had to have two sets of characters who both believed that they were 100 % right.
Correct.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
And then, you know, once, once fists start getting thrown and...

(01:31:27):
It's just pandemonium.
Everyone starts fighting, you know, in the pizzeria.
And it is just...
And again, I keep thinking of that girl because no one's paying attention to her.
She's just pleading for the guys to stop and they just don't even notice.
And then the fight spills outside and the two cups that we've been watching, drivingaround all day...

(01:31:53):
They show up and one starts choking Rahim with his nightstick and he keeps going andpeople around him are screaming for him to let him go.
His partner is telling him that's enough, but he doesn't stop and he doesn't stop.
And then Radio Rahim is dead.

(01:32:14):
What gets me there, the cop stops screaming at Rahim to get up saying he's faking, but heain't.
And they realize that and what do they do?
Do they call for medical help?
No, they throw them in the back of a squad car to get the fuck out of there.
So you basically have these cops come into what is already a bad situation.
They make it infinitely worse by killing a man and then they disappear into the night.

(01:32:40):
It's just, it's so fucked.
And now things are really inevitable.
I mean, you have this shot where Sal, his sons and Mookie are standing in a row in frontof the pizzeria and Mookie just walks away.
Mookie's near the restaurant and as people are starting to talk, as the crowd is havingdiscussion about what's going on and pointing out what's gone down and everything and how

(01:33:03):
wrong this is, how wrong this is, Mookie first just walks across the street to stand withthe crowd.
And I thought that was interesting because he didn't just walk off to get the garbage can.
goes.
who stands with the crowd and that's when the mayor tries to plead with people to calmdown.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's the one time no one's really listening to the mayor.
It's the one time that that is his words fall on deaf ears.

(01:33:26):
And then that eventually is when Mookie just starts wandering over to a trash and you'relike, what is happening on?
my gosh.
Okay.
And he picks up that trash can, he walks over the window and smashes the window.
And there's no turning back.
And he looks like he's in shock.

(01:33:48):
Like the look on his face is not like one of, like where he's out of control.
It's not like the fight in the pizza parlor where people are screaming.
He's not screaming at the top of his lungs.
He just looks like he's in total shock.
Yeah.
Well, he, his friend was just murdered, you know, and that's where that, interactionearlier is, is critical, you know, where, where he and radio or IHEM are trading the

(01:34:14):
talking to each other, you know, love you, man, and all of that.
mean, you know, cause that tells us for certain that they were, you know, friends andthere was much love and, know, he just saw his friend, you know, murdered and he is in
shock and has to do something, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a and then, you know, then when then it all it all goes down.

(01:34:38):
People pour into sows.
They trash it.
Smiley lights a match.
And, you know, the fire is, you know, fire burns.
And the fire department, the cops show back, the cops show back up, the fire department'scoming from the opposite side of the street.
They show up, they get their hoses going on the building, but then in no time in themiddle of this whole kerfluffle, they're turning the hoses on the people.

(01:35:03):
They're, they're spraying them back, which is very reminiscent of photos that we have,that we're all too sadly familiar with from history.
And so they're not just battling the flames.
They're dividing their attention between that and then aiming it back at the building andall of that.
It's just chaos and chaos and it's this crescendo of chaos and violence and flames.

(01:35:29):
then that's where we have sister mother with screaming no in the street, no, just staringat all of it.
And then mayor silently comes up and embraces her.
And then we're hearing fight the power by public enemy, come to the floor.
And we're inside the restaurant and we see feet move across the pizza on the floor and thesoggy remains of this restaurant.

(01:35:53):
And there he is, smiley, he grabs that, he has that picture in his hand, puts it up on thewall with a smile as the flames are crowning him from behind as fight the power plays.
And then it cuts.
I mean, what a fucking moment.
Yeah.
And sales, pizzeria burns and that's, that's bad, but radio Raheem is dead and there is noamount of insurance money that can make that right.

(01:36:22):
And that's the truth of it.
And the next day when you get the, radio report going, it's mentioned that they're, youknow,
whatever official capacity the city of New York.
Yeah.
The mayor wants to make a blue ribbon commission and about the destruction of propertyproperty.
of course, no mention of radio Rahim or the death until, the, the, the, know, SamJackson's character then, you know, says this one's going out to radio Rahim.

(01:36:55):
Yes.
You know, love you.
And he's encouraging everyone listening to chill C H I L L.
Yeah.
And then he says, the elections coming up, make sure you registered vote.
Yeah.
There's a lot, there's a lot that he packs into that last stanza at the end.
But before that we get, we're with Mookie waking up.

(01:37:16):
Mookie waking up with Tina and he's gotta go collect the money, because Sal owes him aday's pay.
I don't understand that interaction with them because she is so angry about him getting upto go do that.
And he's like, no, I gotta go to work and do this.
And she's like, I'm sick of your shit and you're blah, blah.
You need to get your life together.
Well, he has been working the whole, it's not like he's sitting there playing video games,like, you know, whatever.

(01:37:41):
He's been working the whole time.
He's getting up to go get paid to keep his life together and she will not have it.
I didn't understand that interaction.
Did you guys understand that one?
In the context of everything and just how this film treats, you know, relationships andviewpoints, it does seem to me, earlier on, we perhaps got a lot of viewpoint that maybe

(01:38:03):
Mookie wasn't the best boyfriend and maybe not the best dad, right?
And this to me seems like, you know, the opposite side of things where, you know, if youhave a certain kind of relationship, even when you're doing something at the end, which I
believe Mookie is that, I mean, it's totally...
normal for him to do this.
It's not him, you know, doing something crazy and abandoning them.

(01:38:27):
It's like he should go get this money, especially cause Sal may not be back in theneighborhood anytime soon.
Um, you know, but, uh, you know, him going to Sal after he was the one who, you know,through the trash can is another interesting talk.
But with Tina, at least I think here we are shown that maybe Tina isn't always a hundredpercent reasonable herself.
That sometimes maybe Mookie has a point that

(01:38:49):
She is saying, Oh, you're going to leave.
I'm not going to see you for a week.
That's not what this one is.
Maybe it was earlier, but this one isn't.
And so, you know, it's just the swings of their relationship.
we have this final scene where Mookie goes back and talks with Sal, you know, and collectsthe money.
It's a, it's it's a great scene between, between Spike Lee and Danny Aiello.

(01:39:12):
What do you want?
I want my money and I want to get paid.
don't work here no more.
Sir, I want my money.
Your money couldn't begin to pay for the window you Motherfucker window, Ray Rahim isdead.
I know he's dead, I was here, you remember?
He's dead because of his buddy.
That cuck sucker started all this shit.
He's responsible for that kid's death.

(01:39:33):
And he wanted to close me, and you stood there like a fuck, and you watched him burn medown.
I watched it.
I also watched the cop's murder, Raider I.H.E.M.
You didn't get over from the fucking insurance anyway, Sal.
You know the deal.
What the fuck wrong with you?
I give a fuck about money.
You see this fucking place?
I built this fucking place with my bare fucking hands!

(01:39:56):
Every light socket, every piece of tile, me with these fucking hands!
You know what the fuck that means?
Yeah, it means pay me my motherfucking money.
That's what it means, so...
Okay, okay.
How much do I owe you?
My salary is $2.50.
$2.50 a week.

(01:40:22):
One.
That's three.
That's four.
And that's five.
You got $500.
You're a rich fucking man now.
You happy?
He's got $500 fucking dollars!
He's a big man!
He's a rich fucking man!

(01:40:43):
He's never gonna have any more trouble!
Not Mookie!
He's fucking rich!
Who the fuck are you yelling You're wealthy Mookie.
You're a real fucking Rockefeller.
You got your fucking pay.
Now leave me alone.
Sal, my salary is 250 week, all right?

(01:41:04):
I owe you 50 bucks.
Keep it.
You keep it.
You keep it.
You keep it.
No, you keep it.
You keep it.
I don't believe this shit.
Believe it.
Are you sick?
I'm high as a mother fucker, I'm alright though.

(01:41:27):
Well, they say it's even going to get hotter today.
What are you gonna do with yourself?
Make that money, get paid.
So I gotta go see my son, if he's alright with you.
And so, you you end, mean, it's interesting that Mookie only wants what's owed.

(01:41:49):
He doesn't just want money.
He wants what's owed.
It's very specific.
He's even like, I'll owe you 50 because Sal only had $100 bills, so he didn't have 50.
You know, and the hope is that maybe could there be a reconciliation between the two?
The movie leaves it very open-ended in a way that, you know, well, they're not going begoing to a

(01:42:13):
ball game together anytime soon, but maybe it's possible.
I don't know.
Maybe, know, I, uh, I have to tell this little tidbit from the commentary that Spike Leetold, uh, I guess this movie was originally at Paramount and apparently Paramount said the

(01:42:36):
ending was too down and what their suggestion was, was to have
Mookie and Sal have this scene and have them sing, are the world together.
So instead he took it to universal where when after con and, all of that, when, uh, andthere were, you know, they attempted to boycott this movie and they, they tried to it

(01:43:08):
getting released.
And in the universal, the, I forget the exec's name, which is terrible of me, but, uh,they stood by it and they released it.
Cause this was a year after, um, the last temptation of Christ.
that Universal had released.
That was 88.
This was 89.
So in any event, but I just, could you imagine this movie ending with them singing, we arethe world?

(01:43:30):
Like, Jesus Christ.
Yeah, I can.
And it's terrible.
It's terrible.
Instead, instead of that, we end with two quotes and I'm going to read them both.
Because I think it's just, it's incredibly important.
So the first quote from Martin Luther King Jr.
goes as follows.

(01:43:52):
Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral.
It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all.
The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.
It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win hisunderstanding.

(01:44:14):
It seeks to annihilate rather than to convert.
Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love, and it destroyscommunity and makes brotherhood impossible.
It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue.
Violence ends by destroying itself.

(01:44:35):
It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers.
The second quote is from Malcolm X.
I think that there are plenty of good people in America.
But there are also plenty of bad people in America.
And the bad ones are the ones who seem to have all the power and to be in these positionsto block things that you and I need.

(01:45:00):
Because this is the situation, you and I have to preserve the right to do what isnecessary to bring an end to that situation.
And it doesn't mean that I advocate violence, but at the same time, I am not against usingviolence in self-defense.
I don't even call it violence when it's self-defense.
I call it intelligence.

(01:45:21):
And both of those quotes, both of those statements from two of the most prominent civilrights leaders of the era are absolutely true.
Violence is not the answer, but self-defense is also a justifiable thing.

(01:45:42):
So.
And then I should say we also end with dedications to six black people who were killed byeither police or white mobs.
Eleanor Bumpers, Michael Griffith, Arthur Miller, Edmund Perry, Yvonne Smallwood, andMichael Stewart.
And, you know, unfortunately, there have been many more in the years since this movie wasmade.

(01:46:06):
This is a movie, you know.
Guys, I thought absolutely as relevant today as when it was made and it's, it's, you know,it's tough.
It's tough, but it's a great movie.
and I'm glad we got a chance to talk about it and to watch it and talk about it.
And, and, you know, it's, terrific.

(01:46:29):
Yeah.
I mean, I always love watching this movie, even, you know, given that, it ends in apretty, pretty tough place, as you say,
but it is, you know, it's a joy.
When I was watching this in the first 10 minutes and I hadn't seen it for a number ofyears, you know, I got kind of a little nostalgic, you know, for seeing it, but also for

(01:46:53):
the era of film that it came from.
And I had this thought of, you know, that they don't really make them like this anymoreand they don't release movies like this anymore.
And then it took me a couple more minutes.
like, I actually kind of never did.
And that's what makes this movie so special.
is that it really is so singular, not just the message, but the time, the place, thetalent, seeing, you you always talk about the third movie of any James Bond is where they

(01:47:22):
really hone in on who that James Bond is.
Well, this was Spike Lee's third feature film out of college.
This is Spike Lee's Goldfinger.
Exactly.
This is where Spike Lee became Spike Lee.
Yeah.
I mean, there are elements, you know, like School Days has direct address.
There are elements that exist and she's got to have it in school days, but this is whereit all comes together.

(01:47:43):
I mean, and just like as a, as a big sucker punch, he, he talks about, this is the firstmovie he felt comfortable with actors and holy shit.
Do you see it?
I mean, you know, the performances are amazing.
even with, even with, some of the first timers, you know, in this movie, anyway, it justlike, this is one of those rare ones.
It all comes together.

(01:48:04):
I've saved it for the end, in my book.
in my my own canon, this is yet another perfect movie.
I would not change one fucking thing in this thing.
Yeah, you know, not that anyone cares, but just for me, you know, this movie is great.
Yeah.
Well, maybe I thank you.
I we don't often talk about Academy Awards on this show, but I want to mention that it wasnominated for two Academy Awards.

(01:48:34):
Danny Aiello for best supporting actor.
and Spike Lee for Best Original Screenplay, and it won neither, which is just absolutelyridiculous.
There was no nominations for directing, no nominations for cinematography, no nominationfor Best Picture.
Score.
Score.
Score.
Score.
My god.
It should have been nominated.

(01:48:57):
And that year's Best Picture went to Driving Miss Daisy, was the Best Picture winner thatyear, which is a good movie.
But it doesn't seem like it's, you know, mean, that was, God, they didn't nominate Gloryeither.
That was another movie from 1989.
Didn't even get nominated or, or Sex, Lies and Videotape for Christ's sake.
I do believe Danny Aiello lost best supporting to Denzel and Glory.

(01:49:19):
And I, yes, yes, yes.
Denzel did win.
Yes.
Danny Aiello nominated.
It's tough to argue against Denzel Washington and Glory.
That is, that seems a completely, that, that seems like the right.
call that year, not that Danielle's not Hard to argue against Denzel in any Hard to argueagainst Denzel in Glory, my God.
But this is a movie that should have gotten nominated for a whole host of awards.

(01:49:43):
And again, that's not the most important thing, but I just wanted to mention it because,it's do the right thing.
that, I think, I mean, that brings it, I think, to the end today.
This has been a terrific episode.
We'll be back in two weeks.
with another Spike Lee film that builds off of this, that deals with a lot of the samestuff, 1992's Malcolm X.

(01:50:13):
And I am excited to talk about this one with you guys.
Again, thanks so much for joining.
It's been great.
So thank you so much for listening.
Again, we are your hosts, Chris Iannicone, Rob Lemorgis, and Justin Beam.
If you've enjoyed our show, please consider subscribing and following us on.
Blue Sky, Instagram, threads, and Twitter at Get Me Another Pod.

(01:50:35):
In addition, check out the Justin Beam Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.
And if you like the show, tell your friends about it.
Tell your enemies about it.
Tell your local DJ about it and get him to mention us on the air.
And join us next time as we continue to explore what happens when Hollywood says, get me anote.

(01:51:06):
The next record goes out to Radio Raheem.
We love you brother.