Bonus Episode: The Northman

Grab a cup of psychoactive mead and settle in for a Conan the Barbarian Bonus Episode as we look at Robert Eggers’ historical epic, THE NORTHMAN (2022), starring Alexander Skarsgård, Nicole Kidman, Claes Bang, Ethan Hawke, Willem Dafoe, and Anya Taylor-Joy. Eggers co-wrote the film with Sjón.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
you
Hello and welcome to Get Me Another, a podcast where we explore those movies that followedin the wake of blockbuster hits and attempted to replicate their success.
My name is Chris Iannico and with me is my co-host Rob LaMorguz.

(00:25):
I'll meet you at the gates of hell.
yeah, well of course.
That was always the plan to meet the gates of hell.
Yeah.
Make sure you don't go barefoot because it's hot.
It is.
There are flames and you will hurt your feet.
Those rocks are going to cut as well.
That's some craggy, craggy ground.
no, no, no.
You don't want to.
Honestly, I think open-toed shoes at the gates of hell is not the way to go.

(00:50):
Yeah.
Although with that hygiene level, maybe open-toed shoes are better.
Just saying.
Today is the first episode of Get Me Another for 2025, and we have some exciting stuffplanned for you in the year ahead.
We are going to be starting off the year with a few bonus episodes in January andFebruary, allowing us the opportunity to revisit some of the series we've done in the past

(01:13):
and look at films that we didn't necessarily have the opportunity to explore earlier.
And then in March, we'll be kicking off a brand new Get Me Another series, which we'll beannouncing at the end of today's show.
I'm just going to give you a little hint though.
It might be March and in a lot of the world it'll be cold, but we're going to be turningup the heat, baby.

(01:36):
yeah.
And you may not you may not want us to.
I fully I fully see that now that I say what I said.
Yeah, we said what we said too late now.
Yeah.
But first, we're going to explore a recent film that shares quite a bit of DNA with themovie that kicked off a series we did back in 2023.

(02:00):
John Malleus's 1982 sword and sorcery epic Conan the Barbarian.
And today we'll be looking at another tale of revenge set in the mythic past.
From 2022, this is Robert Eggers' The Northman.
Now behold.

(02:26):
He's here.
He's here.
Mother!
Mother is here!
The king, my lady.
The king.
Your fate is set and you cannot escape it.
missed you, my son.
One day this kingdom will be yours.

(02:48):
Thank you, Father, my king.
You're strong.

(03:21):
Father, I will save you, Mother.
I won't kill you, Fyodor.
Why would you throw away to such a hellish place?
find what was stolen from me.
What is that?

(03:42):
Just choose between kindness for your kin or hate for your enemies.
Your strength breaks men's bones.
I have the cunning to break their minds.
And night by night, we will carry out my pledge of vengeance.
I will avenge your father.

(04:05):
I will avenge your father.
The Northman is the third feature film directed by Robert Eggers following The Witch in2015 and The Lighthouse in 2019.
His next film, a remake of F.W.
Murnau's unauthorized 1922 adaptation of Dracula, Nosferatu, is in theaters right now,which is not a coincidence that we're doing The Northman while Nosferatu is out in

(04:32):
theaters.
Because, you know, hey, if we can tap into that zeitgeist.
Well, hey, we're not above that.
We are a couple of yes for Rattus here.
Not my joke.
Everyone that not my joke, but I like it.
I like yes for.
I remember seeing the witch when it came out in movie theaters and I, I remember that thatmovie blew me away.

(04:56):
I thought it was absolutely incredible.
I've rewatched it recently.
It is still incredible.
I've seen the lighthouse a couple of times.
It is also an extraordinary piece of filmmaking.
It is perhaps a little bit more difficult for me to penetrate.
Like I have a little bit more trouble with it, but it is exquisitely made.
And Angus, he just has this extraordinary ability to create these fully realized andbelievable historical worlds.

(05:22):
I mean, it's amazing.
Yeah, and...
What I, this is kind of half joke, but half not what I find also very interesting to mepersonally is that there are these fully realized worlds you cannot look away from.
I oftentimes that involves an escapist element.
here it a hundred percent does not.

(05:43):
I would not want to live in any of his films.
They all look like terrible places to exist inside of, that's no, that's absolutely true.
Like,
I'm not enough of an expert to say that the movies he creates are truly authentic in termsof historical detail, but man, they feel authentic in a way I have rarely seen.

(06:07):
And here's the thing, that authenticity goes beyond simply production design or the lookof the film, although it certainly applies to that, but it extends to the language and the
attitudes and beliefs of the characters.
You know, they are not, they are not modern human beings in period dress.

(06:31):
They have beliefs and attitudes that are absolutely foreign to us.
And it's fascinating, but, I love peering into those worlds, but I don't want to livethere.
no.
No.
And with the witch and the Northman a little bit more so than the lighthouse, I think thatyou get that feeling of these are people with not necessarily modern ways of thinking and

(06:53):
beliefs.
But definitely in that, in kind of the sci-fi tradition, even though these movies are notscience fiction, where you are utilizing the past, like people utilize science fiction to
look at the modern era.
And they all do in one fashion or the other.
The Lighthouse, perhaps the least, I think it is a much more personal film, at leastthat's how it plays to me.

(07:17):
Yeah, I mean, the past is, they're almost alien worlds.
I think that's absolutely right.
These places are, the past is a different place in ways that most historical dramas don'tfully kind of dive into.

(07:38):
A lot of the times it is much more, hey, we got the costumes and sets right, but there'smodern attitudes.
There's modern attitudes towards religion.
There's modern attitudes towards.
you know, gender and sexuality, all of which in Robert Eggers films are very, verydifferent than our beliefs today.
Yeah.
The closest thing recently that I could think of, but the, characters attitudes are sosingular that it might, it feels a little less about modern or not modern is a phantom

(08:07):
thread.
sure.
The Paul Thomas Anderson movie where those people do not feel like modern characters inperiod, period dress.
are fascinating.
I, I, that's a great movie and my goodness.
yes.
Although I have some similarities with the, with the, the, the character played by DanielDay-Lewis.

(08:28):
I, I, love mushrooms.
Well, I cannot start my day with confrontation.
I simply, I simply cannot.
Robert Eggers co-wrote the screenplay for the Northman with Icelandic writer Shone andco-produced the film with star Alexander Skarsgard.
Skarsgård, the son of Swedish actor, Stellan Skarsgård, had wanted to do a Viking themedproject for some years and a few projects, he had had a few projects in development that

(08:59):
eventually had fallen apart.
At the same time, Eggers became interested in doing a Viking movie after a trip to Icelandwhere he met the singer Björk who appears in the film.
And it was Björk who introduced him to Shone with whom he co-wrote the screenplay.
And then Eggers and Skarsgård met in 2017 and their shared interest in a Viking project iswhat led to the Northman.

(09:24):
So Rob, if I were giving an elevator pitch for this movie, it's Conan the Barbarian meetsHamlet.
Yeah.
I mean, that's definitely there.
As I, I would probably go with Norse Scorsese.
This is the Zerg fellows.
And, yeah, no, it's, it's,

(09:45):
fascinating to me and my number one again, I have choked about this less often lately, butI do not look at filmmakers intentions.
I don't read up on what they wanted me to think.
I will just watch the thing.
So, you know, your mileage may vary on all of this.
So anything that I'm saying is not necessarily the intent of anyone involved in the film.

(10:09):
It's just how it played for me.
But the headline for me for this movie is
quote from the Buddha or at least attributed to the Buddha.
I think this quote for me is the very obvious, you know, touchstone for this movie, whichis you will not be punished for your anger.

(10:29):
You will be punished by your anger.
Yeah.
And if that does not encapsulate this movie, absolutely does a nutshell for me.
Oh, 100%.
I think that's great.
mean, honestly, Rob,
slapped out on the poster.
Yeah, like there you go.
I'm sure they will not.

(10:50):
The Buddha, the Buddha's not sell so well at the multiplex.
You never know.
It's stranger things have happened in this crazy business.
That's true.
That's true.
So the North man is actually based on a Norse legend, the legend of Amleth, which datesback.
East as far as the 12th century, but is very likely even older than that.

(11:14):
In fact, the tale may have its roots back in the Classical Era story of Lucius JuniusBrutus, who was the legendary founder of the Roman Republic, who overthrew his uncle
Tarquinius, who was the last king of Rome.
The legend of Amleth, which was set down by Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus,

(11:37):
was the inspiration for William Shakespeare's tragedy, Hamlet, written around the year1600, and which has become the most performed and certainly most influential play of all
time.
So what I find interesting is we have Eggers here is reaching back to an earlier versionof this story than the one popularized by Shakespeare as the inspiration for his film.

(12:02):
And what I think is particularly interesting is that
Eggers is essentially doing the same thing with Nosferatu.
The original Nosferatu was an unauthorized adaptation of Bram Stoker's Dracula, a story Ihappen to know very well, that predates the 1924 stage adaptation by Hamilton Dean, which
then served as the basis for the 1931 Universal film starring Bela Lugosi, which becamethe version of the story most widely known in popular culture.

(12:30):
So with both films,
Eggers is exploring what could be characterized as an earlier branch off the tree of astory that would later become widely known through another adaptation.
And I just think it's an interesting thing.
anyone who has listened to a number of our episodes will know that that is textbook trendfollowing.

(12:52):
Now it's different in his case because it's not in the midst of that initial trend, butoftentimes what we have
scene happen is that when someone hits with something, if there is anything that might beconsidered source material of some kind, not necessarily an adaptation.
Right.
So Star Wars wasn't an adaptation of Buck Rogers, but it drew from those kinds of serialsor, you know, absolutely.

(13:16):
Or Batman was, you know, from the comic heroes of the heroes.
Yeah.
And then you go back and you go, well, what if I get the Phantom or the shadow?
So going for going earlier as a way to try and play in the sandbox, but do it differently.
And
And, you know, it's tried and true, baby.
Absolutely.
And I should mention that Robert E.

(13:37):
Howard's Conan stories also drew significantly from that same Northern European folkloreand mythology that the Norse legend of Amleth comes from.
I mean, frankly, the work of J.R.R.
Tolkien as well.
And I think there's a lot of intersections because all of these things are kind of drawnfrom this same set of myths that were told

(14:00):
and retold mostly through oral tradition in the northern part of Europe for thousands ofyears.
Maybe, again, maybe going back to the Roman era, even before the Roman Empire.
So you're really talking about stuff that is foundational texts of European civilization.

(14:20):
And here we are in a new version of it.
And I mean, it continues because, you know, Hamlet obviously is still produced
everywhere in the world all the time.
mean, Disney's The Lion King is, you know, another version of this story.
So from, you know, from the fall of the Roman Republic to The Lion King, we're stilltelling this story.

(14:43):
It's a perennial.
Different cultures have different spins on it, and they emphasize different things.
I think it's interesting what Shakespeare emphasizes versus what what Eggers emphasizes,and they're different things.
But
But there's commonalities because this is a tapestry.
This is the tapestry of human storytelling.

(15:04):
in that mix is one of the things that makes this far, far different from a really most anyConan sword and sorcery movie that I can remember seeing because I refuse to count the
sword and the sorcerer.
are a lot of revenge.
There is a lot of usurping and revenge tales.

(15:26):
So it's not the usurping, the revenge.
It's the fact that this is, as you say, a tragedy.
absolutely is.
Conan the Barbarian, not a tragedy.
Not a tragedy.
The new barbarians, or no, I'm sorry.
The barbarians, not a tragedy.
New barbarians is different.
Might be tragedy.
But no, it is absolutely a tragedy.

(15:47):
And a little later I'll talk about...
What I think makes an effective tragedy, because I think there's there's aspects of it andthey are absolutely 100 % present here.
Yeah, because this one in the most general sense as tragedies often are, it's driven by atrait in your main character that they cannot change.

(16:10):
Yeah.
And that that is the tragic part.
And there are ways in which one does that that drive me.
bonkers as an audience member where I just feel, why can't you change?
seems so obvious.
Like I don't get why you're stuck.
And I get that that can be real life.
for me, can tragedy is not always my favorite for that reason.

(16:32):
It's it's not because of the sad ending, you know, it's because it is a character that Ifind if not, you know, maybe we remove believability from it and just go I find
infuriating.
But
For this movie, it is not that for me.
And this and Amleth is not that for me.
So the Northman stars Alexander Skarsgard, Anya Taylor-Joy, Nicole Kidman, Claes Bang andEthan Hawke with appearances by Willem Dafoe and Bjork.

(17:00):
And like Melinas' Conan, we open with this voiceover narration, which establishes thestory that we're about to see is one of past events.
We're firmly rooting it in the idea that this is a tale
being told it is by the way the voice of the he witch who will later meet in the movie andto be perfectly honest sounds a lot like the wizard of the mounds from Conan.

(17:24):
Yes and this is also I think again don't know filmmaker intent but for me the way itfunctions is that this is setting us up with an erroneous expectation for the audience.
This is setting us up for an epic hero's journey right.
which we have been, you know, they've used this form so much in American, you know, studiofilms for heroes and especially for epic adventure stuff.

(17:51):
Sure.
Obviously it existed in tales.
Joseph Campbell had, had analyzed a lot and you know, if you want to go into other areas,get Vladimir prop with the, you know, analyzing the folk tales prior to that.
I think that setting us up for a heroic heroes journey,

(18:12):
which by the way is not a tragedy.
And that I believe that this is being done for specific purpose.
And if it wasn't, it was a happy accident because it is part of making us complicit inrooting for some of the worst things to happen.

(18:34):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
So the story that we're being told,
Very early, we're mentioned the Norns, are the figures in Norse mythology who shaped thefates of human beings, much like the fates in Greek mythology.
And this idea of fate is really significant to this film and the way it motivates somecharacters' actions.

(18:59):
And it's established right from the beginning, even though I think you're right, it issetting up for a hero's journey, but at the same time, it's telling you...
these characters are not entirely control of their own destiny.
Or at least they don't believe they're in control of their own destiny.
And really that's what matters.
Yeah.
And it all depends on what's, what is fate, right?

(19:20):
Because fate, fate can be good and heroic and fate can be tragic depending upon which wayit goes.
But it's funny for all that I just said about things that this is on a slightly sidewayspoint in, I think you hit on part of it.
For a movie that is often steeped in symbolism and metaphor, visual metaphor and, youknow, and mythology, that at times, if you're just kind of watching it, it can make the

(19:46):
movie feel almost a little unknowable, right?
But it tells you literally what is going to happen almost every step of the way.
And I don't mean that like, if you look at the metaphor, no, a character will literallytell you in the midst of all of this craziness,
exactly what's gonna happen.
Reminded me of the first line, I think it's the first line of dialogue in Lady Bird whenshe says, do I look like someone from Sacramento or something close to that.

(20:17):
And you're like, you put, there's no place like home at the beginning.
This movie does it in like little steps along the way.
Particularly, I think the witches, when you hear the witches talk and it sounds soinscrutable, if you watch it again and you see what the witches say, you're like,
they just told me what the next 15 to end of the movie might be.

(20:38):
Yes, they told you exactly.
So we open, we see this boy watching from the walls of an island stronghold as a group ofViking longboats approach.
This is young Prince Amleth, and he is excited by the return of his father, King ArvindaleWar Raven.
And he races to tell his mother, the Queen Gudrin, about his father's impending arrival.

(21:00):
And we see this as a boy who clearly loves.
and admires his father.
And as we soon see, I think the father loves the son in return.
I I got that vibe from the get-go.
There's an interesting moment where Amleth charges into his mother's room just as she'sfinishing dressing.
Like she's literally like slipping her gown on over her head.

(21:22):
And she kind of snaps at him like, ever come in without knocking, he says, whatever theViking equivalent of don't come in without knocking kid.
And there's nothing like...
There's nothing wrong.
Like she's not doing anything wrong.
She's just getting dressed.
But at the same time, there's a sense from the very beginning to me that the queen hasthings to hide, that there's something ever so slightly not right about all of this.

(21:49):
And that's, I don't know if that's just from her putting on a dress just a little toolate.
It's like, there's something not right about it.
definitely.
mean, it's...
And the movie's not hiding the ball.
I wasn't sure if I was reading too much into stuff.
was like, no.
I think it is in the, movie is not afraid for you to believe that something's going on,even though technically it's not things aren't dealt with for quite a while.

(22:17):
was just, we just see her getting dressed, you know?
And you know what?
You probably should knock on the door in your mother's bedroom when she's getting dressed.
Like that's, that's a good idea.
know, or anyone's just as a general principle.
you know, that we endorse knocking on doors here at Get Me Another.
But so soon the king returns along with his brother Fjolnir and the rest of the raidingparty.

(22:39):
And I got to say, mean, this is got to be one of the most authentic depictions of whatViking warriors actually looked like as a as a history nerd.
Like, I love it.
There's no horns on these Viking helmets.
There's another movie that someday we'll talk about on this program called The Norseman.

(23:03):
Quite different.
It's a film from the seventies.
It is completely ridiculous.
It's all horned helmets.
I love it in a different way, but this is, this is the real deal.
This is absolutely, this, this feels absolutely authentic and it kind of, you know, Imean, it's, it's, it's tough.
You know, other Viking things are just pale in comparison in terms of their, theirhistorical authenticity.

(23:28):
Don't worry if you want horns, there are plenty of drinking horns.
There are which you cannot set down.
Yeah.
So when you are poured, you must finish.
You cannot and it must stay in your hand because it's a horn.
It's a boy.
And I never thought of that.
Yeah.
I was gifted some drinking horns in high school from a friend who was, you know, from thecountry of Georgia.

(23:51):
So sure.
sure.
Yeah.
so the, the, drinking horn for wine, it's, it's,
You need to get a stand for that.
I actually do.
I still have them.
Nice.
Nice.
So the king returns and we should point out that the Vikings are clearly bringing backslaves captured on their raid.

(24:14):
And that is very clearly the business they engage in and that of slave trading, whichobviously in modern sensibilities is completely anathema to
to the way we look at the world.
But in this alien landscape of the distant past, this is their business.

(24:34):
And slaves have a lot of, there's a lot of role to play in this story with, you know,who's a slave and when.
But right from the beginning, know, King Arvindale, he, you know, he's a slave trader.
And there are, we will get the story points when we get them.

(24:54):
But this movie, the story is definitely playing with legitimacy of role in society.
yes.
Because you have, you know, usurpers of kings you have.
And what does that mean after you've usurped?
You've got slaves and what their role is.

(25:14):
And can you go between?
You know, I guess we now call it social mobility.
But back then, it's the idea of what what
You know, what's what cast are you?
didn't call it that in Europe at the time, but that's what it is.
what people will do to move between or to prevent movement down.

(25:36):
You know, that is the central exercise of power and violence in this movie is all relatedto where are you on the ladder?
And of course, a king is only a king if he can hold his throne.
All all the stuff about.
you know, monarchy and aristocracy is all just a way of legitimizing the powerful.

(25:58):
We can take power.
We're going to create this system to explain why God let us take power and not the otherguy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and also visually when, as you're talking, when they come back, you get, there are acouple of different things.
The visual direction of this movie is amazing.
I won't get to.

(26:18):
to talk.
It's incredible.
I do think you get some equivalency between the chests full of loot.
Yep.
And the people in chains.
Yeah.
And one of the things there's one shot from the outside when they're coming in, I believeit might be a little later, but where you get a lot he plays with the the visual direction

(26:41):
of the camera movement and then the people within the frame of the the shot.
It reminded me a lot of what Julie Taymor did in her filmed version of Titus with AnthonyHopkins.
You're you're constantly getting these intersecting lines.
absolutely.
The other thing I want to mention in terms of the way he shoots this movie is thelighting.
I think it's so extraordinary.

(27:02):
Yeah.
Because so much of these Viking buildings that a lot of the movie takes place in.
First of all, they don't they I don't think they had glass.
So there's no like windows.
And what often they are lit by big fires in the middle of the room.
So first of all, there's a sense of like it's smoky and dusky.

(27:23):
you know, for me, it conjures this in my imagination, it conjures this time beforeelectricity when human beings were much more at the mercy of nature and the elements.
So here you have this group that is basically living on this rock.
in the North Atlantic and scratching out in existence.

(27:46):
And part of that is that they're willing to take captives and sell them into slaverybecause they're just trying to survive as well.
I thought the same thing about the witch.
Like when the sun went down, the darkness of that world must have been so all-consumingand impenetrable.

(28:09):
It's not hard to imagine how human beings
must have imagined all kinds of things dwelling in that darkness.
Yeah.
mean, you bring up such a great point, which is that, you know, we say king and kingdom.
This is not what I think a lot of people have in mind of like the giant stone King ArthurCastle or French castles.

(28:33):
And it's I mean, it's shabby, it's tiny.
And as you say, when the sun goes down, you really don't feel like there's protection fromanything.
You're like, you're the king, but you are living on the nice edge.
Maybe not as quite as much as other people, but it's not, you're, you know, you are notthat far removed from instant death.
You know?

(28:53):
Right.
So we're introduced, we have this big celebration.
We're introduced to the King's fool, Heimer, who's played by Willem Dafoe.
He immediately makes a jest at the expense of the queen and Fjolnir, the king's brother.
And while the king dismisses it,
If Yolner is a little too sensitive about it, man, you know, play it little cool.

(29:16):
I want to mention that Heimer is, Heimer, I may be pronouncing, Heimer is a representationof Loki.
Like he is a follower of Loki.
And if you look, the only horns in this movie are on Heimer's hood.
because it's the horns of Loki.
And it's so funny that Loki has become so popular in the recent Marvel adaptations.

(29:42):
You know, here's a story that is, the character that is still looms large today in popculture, but it goes back centuries and millennia.
And I find it really fascinating that the stories we tell and we continue to retell overand over and how they evolve.
And even here,

(30:03):
something that connects to big budget filmmaking today.
Yeah, I mean, and this is not me saying anything about the Marvel Loki negativelynecessarily, but you look at that as a much more widespread pal, but palatable version of
the myth for the modern world, right?
Very much trickster in like in the realm of Bugs Bunny almost.

(30:27):
Whereas this Loki, I don't know that many people would be swooning over or two would callcharming.
the original, you know, the original, I believe the original purpose of the jester in thesystem was, you know, the one person who was a fool that no one could take seriously, but
who could say things, to the King that no one else could say, because you need under theguise of a joke, but sometimes you, know, everyone else will, will only say yes.

(30:55):
No one will say no or point out potential problems, because you will kill them.
And the king defends the haemir because he says he considers him a friend.
And, you know, it's very much so.
It's interesting that following the feast, Arvindale decides that his son must acceleratethe process of becoming a man so that he will be ready to take the throne when the king

(31:19):
should die.
These characters, these characters truly believe in their pagan gods.
This is not some kind of.
You know, it's not just lip service or just stats.
They really believe that their fate is in the hands of these supernatural forces.
When the king returns, he's disappointed he didn't die in battle because he believes hehas to die in battle in order to enter Valhalla.

(31:46):
I must die by the sword is his actual quote.
And it's so interesting because do you have to?
Like, do you have to die by the sword?
But at the same time, that's going to be a great motivation.
These beliefs are going to drive these characters and that they may not be real does notmatter because they are real to the characters and what they believe.

(32:15):
Yeah.
And again, like the Klingons and Star Trek, it is a belief system where very literally youcannot make peace.
Yeah.
You cannot be at peace.
If you were to
be at peace, you would not get into Valhalla.
Absolutely.
And that is a hell of a belief system.
And when you say it that way, it sounds crazy.

(32:37):
But I think if you look at a lot of the world today, you will see that we are not very farfrom such beliefs.
No, there's a lot of things in this movie, right?
Different terms.
We count them in different terms, but it's, it is, there's a reason I think this movieresonates.
Yeah.
Unfortunately.
No, I, I a hundred, a hundred percent agree.
it's also, I want to point out a nice bit of blocking.
Like we cut, have the public feast and you know, everybody's, everybody's happy and chill,know, know, and then you cut to the King and the Queen in private and they're sitting very

(33:06):
far apart.
Yeah.
She's like doing her, her, the, the needlework and he is, he's kind of sitting there andtalking.
It's, it's, it's interesting that, you know, right from the off, you know, that there's avery hard cut to them being.
Quite far apart.
Yeah.
I mean, this is Citizen Kane far apart.
mean, again, not hiding the ball.

(33:27):
No, this movie doesn't hide the ball.
tells you.
does not.
No, it's just it's interesting.
So following the feast, the king and his son, they descend to this subterranean chamberbeneath the Temple of Odin.
And there they engage in this ritual that is led by Haenir the Fool, who also

(33:48):
serves a role as a kind of priest or shaman.
And this whole sequence is amazing.
Like they take on the persona of wolves.
Like they are growling.
From a modern perspective, it might seem insane, but these characters don't have a modernperspective.
They drink the vision mead of knowledge.

(34:10):
Who knows what's in the vision mead of knowledge?
Man, it is, but you know.
I'm just saying folks go easy on the vision, meat of knowledge, because you know, youmight see all sorts of stuff and always know your dealer or court jester fool.
Yes.
Exactly.
But it does, it does give us a opportunity to have some of the most striking visuals inthe movie where they've crawl into this tree.

(34:38):
It's, know, your womb substitute.
They drink the mead.
go howling like wolves and do some, some crazy stuff.
And then you get all of the intense, intense visuals of the giant tree tree of the king'ssilhouette, the tree of the Kings.
then underneath the ground where all of the roots are, and you see bodies from the rootsagain, a lot of it is very in silhouette.

(35:04):
Although some of the bodies, can see some of the detail in the faces and things I believe,but it is, it is just striking.
And again, you know, with the certainly not,
not going against the womb transformation imagery to have the bodies growing off of themain tree.
also I should mention there's a fair amount of burping and farting that goes on.

(35:27):
If anybody out there has seen Robert Eggers previous film, The Lighthouse, you know thathe doesn't shy away from some farting.
Like that's lot of farting in the lighthouse.
A little bit of farting here.
lot of farting in the lighthouse.
And you little copper, what are you?
you

(35:48):
It smell a clever pupil.
Every passage, one should turn his eye around, one should spy around.
For a foe might be crouched within upon the floor.
Wise in measure should each man be, yet wise enough to be the fool.

(36:08):
Wise enough to be the fool.
Tell me.
How did Odin lose his eye?
To learn the secret magic of women.
Never seek the secrets of women, but heed them always.
It is women that know the mysteries of men, the norms that spin and weave, and that whenthey're faked, live in honor.

(36:31):
Live in honor.
Safeguard your familial blood.
Safeguard your familial blood.
Don't you know that means, Arlith, son of Arvendi?
Should I fall by the enemy's sword, you must avenge me or forever live in shame!
I will, Fadam!
I will!
My place will not rest till it's drawn the blood from his open neck!

(36:52):
And live always without fear, for your fate is set and you cannot escape it.
Swear it!
I swear.
Amleth, promises his father that if he should be killed...
he will avenge him or forever live in shame.
And he's told that his fate is set and he cannot escape it.

(37:13):
And there's this amazing moment when he's talking to, know, the tight close up shots ofthe three men, the king, his son, and the priest fool, as it were.
And then the son looks down and he appears that they're all floating in the air above,like, you know.

(37:36):
very high above the fire on the ground and again, strongly reminiscent of the final sceneof the witch.
Yes.
The context here is different, but there's some very, this very strong imagery in common.
So following the ceremony, they leave the temple outside snow is falling.
Amleth catches snowflakes on his tongue because he's probably still high as a kite fromthe vision meat of knowledge.

(38:01):
And suddenly the king is attacked.
Arrows pierce his body.
Boom, boom, boom.
It's seriously, it's the best arrow hits since Boromir in the Lord of the Rings.
Like, it's good, it's good.
And the attacker is revealed to be Fjolnir, who intends to steal his brother's kingdom.
Although before his brother can behead him, Arvindale predicts that Fjolnir's kingdom willnot last.

(38:29):
And that will turn out to be true.
But Amleth, he is chased by Fjolnir's men.
Only one of them actually catches him, but Amleth bites off his nose.
I wonder if he would have able to do that if he hadn't drinking the vision meat ofknowledge pretty soon.
Like, that's a hell of a thing to bite a dude's nose off.
And as Fjolnir and his men take over the Citadel, Amleth escapes, not before seeing hismother being carried by Fjolnir as he takes her for his new queen, seemingly by force.

(38:58):
And Amleth escapes in a boat.
rowing as he chants what will be this mantra.
I will avenge you father.
I will save you mother.
I will kill you.
Feel there.
Yeah.
Which is great reputation throughout.
Absolutely.
And again, just to dig in slightly on one tiny point that you just discussed again, haveno idea if this was set out to be his story in microcosm, but

(39:28):
when Amleth sees his father being taken down, he's hiding behind the rock and it's, or,or, you know, off to the distance rock or tree rock or tree something.
and he's essentially, you're playing the moment of him being frozen, right?
You know, he has to see what happens.
His father is killed.
He's still kind of frozen.
It is not until a Fulner essentially says, go get the boy cause he doesn't want him aroundto seek revenge late down the road.

(39:56):
at that point,
Amleth runs, as you said, but then he runs into one of the bad guys who had gotten aroundhim.
While attempting to run away, runs smack into bad guy and then responds with the most likeinsane violence by biting the nose off.
And that is essentially what happens in like the entire run of the movie.

(40:22):
Yeah.
A kid who is in this faded situation tries to run away.
winds up running smack into it and then it's just violence and inescapable.
And that is like in one tiny little bit of a scene that is his whole character.
That's the movie.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.

(40:44):
that's, that's fantastic.
Yeah.
We then, we then are going to jump ahead years later and we find ourselves in the land ofthe Rus, which is Russia.
That's why I always refer to Russia generally is the land of the Rus.
And where Amleth is now a berserker warrior in service of another Viking warlord.
And we first see adult Amleth, he is rowing the Viking boat.

(41:06):
It's not a match cut, but it serves the same purpose of Conan on the wheel.
Yes.
Like where it's like he's grown up and this has been his life in the intervening 20 years.
And we see these berserkers, they're wearing bearskins, they're whipped up into a frenzy.
And Rob, I can't help but think.

(41:28):
One day.
He'll be a campground.
Yeah, their spirits will possess their descendants in America, turning them into backwardskillers.
It's I mean, it's right there.
Folks, if you want to know what I'm referring to, please refer to our Get Me AnotherFriday the 13th episode nine for another movie that touches on Berserker's.

(41:54):
Probably in a much less realistic depiction.
Probably.
Yes.
This movie could be a complete fabrication and Berserker would still be less real.
It's true.
It's true.
So we, but the Berserker scene is amazing.
Like this whole sequence where we watch the Vikings attack this village is it's brutal,but it is absolutely incredible.

(42:21):
And it's clever.
It's not just incredible because it's visually, there's a lot of long shots where we'reright alongside Amleth and we're part of the attack.
But it does this interesting thing.
an attack kind of begins, like someone from one of the walls of the place they'reattacking throws a spear and Amleth catches it, freaking catches it and throws it back.

(42:47):
It's cool.
hits the guy who I think is you can see like crumples away from the wall defenses.
And yes, this sequence is cool.
Like, you know, they're charging the wall.
They're going over like, and, you are 100 % involved.
You are part of this and it is, it is an incredible piece of filmmaking.

(43:12):
But then you cut to when the battle is over.
And first of all, there's this hard cut to the berserker sitting there and they areabsolutely fucking exhausted.
They are just, they're not supernatural.
They're just ultimately men and they have, they are absolutely exhausted.
But by putting you so deep in the battle, you don't quite realize what's happening untilthings slow down and you realize that innocent people are being murdered.

(43:37):
Women are taking, being taken away to be raped.
There's a group of villagers who are locked in a
building that is set on fire.
Like deep war crimes type of shit that like by modern standards.
And at the same time, we don't even recognize that that's what's going on at the outsetbecause we're wrapped up in the cool ass Viking stuff.

(44:00):
But then we slow down and we realize what's really going on and you start to feel badabout it.
It's very, very intelligent filmmaking.
Yeah, I mean, you get because the action sequences, there are not tons of them, but whenthey happen, it is done in an exciting manner.
It is done to draw you in and to make you pump your fist in the air.

(44:24):
And frankly, does.
mean, does.
Amleth catches that spear and throws it back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's totally bad ass.
It is.
And then you are presented with what being totally bad ass actually means in this context.
And that's
That is a cycle that keeps repeating throughout this film.
Absolutely.
Until you learn your goddamn lesson.
Yeah.

(44:47):
there are some folks, there is a lot of discourse about this movie that I think, again, Imentioned Scorsese, there's a lot of discourse about this movie that I think, I don't know
how they have missed the point, but in my opinion, they totally have.
the discourse is oddly unearned.
This movie is so clear.

(45:08):
is.
It is shocking how much people miss the point.
You know, again, whether it's this, whether it's Scorsese, I it is.
It is amazing.
You could not be more unsettled than this movie is about whether or not this violence is agood thing.
Yeah.
Like I don't like did they need Eggers to
break the movie, come out and directly address the camera.

(45:31):
by the way, I believe that this is not a good way to order society.
Right.
I think, I think that is what some people look for at times.
some people need, because some people think that good fellows is on the side of, of thegangsters that will you, that Wolf of Wall Street is on the side of essentially the
gangsters.

(45:51):
Let's be honest.
They're both movies about gangsters and that is like,
Scorsese is not pro gangster.
If you think he is, you are, you're not getting it.
And this movie is not on the side of violence.
It's not pro berserker.
No, it's not pro berserker, but it does show you the, we know from hearing from veteransand they like, there can be a thrill to violence.

(46:15):
And this movie shows that because there has to be that in order to get people to do thissort of thing.
And it will show it to you and, and make you caught up in it and then pull the rug.
Well, it's interesting that there's several times in this movie that two things, ritualand drugs are used to change people's viewpoints.

(46:38):
We see that in the ritual underground with Amleth and his father and the fool.
We see that even just the berserkers in the way that they're working themselves up to dothings that probably human beings wouldn't do in a right frame of mind.
Later, there's all sorts of...
Basically, a group of people get dosed with drugs and holy shit, it ain't a good trip.

(47:01):
I'll tell you that.
We'll get there.
A highly entertaining one, but not good.
my God.
But you it's my goodness.
So, I should also mention because this is where we get an introduction to AnyaTaylor-Joy's character, Olga of the Birch Forest.
The introduction is done in such an interesting way because they don't focus on her.
We see her kind of like come up.

(47:23):
almost on the side of the frame as she's offering food to one of the berserkers in orderto get him to spare someone else's life.
But then as the guy goes to take the food, she whips out a dagger and cuts him.
It's a great, great intro for Olga, who is maybe my favorite character in the movie.
She's fantastic.

(47:43):
And as you say, really good, you know, effective visual direction there when we, by
her where she is in the frame and distant from camp.
Not super distant.
You can totally see, but it is not the placement of a main character in a shot, right?
And so the audiences POV is that of the berserkers, which is this is an unimportant womanthat you don't need to really think about until she then surprises them with violence.

(48:12):
And then that all changes how she's framed.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So that night after the battle.
Amleth is walking around the village and it's empty.
Again, the visuals in this movie are amazing.
Amleth encounters a seeress, played by Bjork, who he wanders into this temple and sheappears and she reminds him of his oath of vengeance.

(48:39):
I mean, just, it's fantastic.
Shadow.
You're still my eyes.

(49:05):
I am no one's brother.
It is not enough to be the man that never cries, Prince Amleth.
you
Psst!

(49:25):
A beast that brings tears from the eyes of man.
Shut your last teardrop.
Remember the oath to right the wrong.

(49:49):
contains the salty ocean you must sail upon to the edge of the world.
It feeds the freezing river of hate that runs in my veins.
It will take you to an island in the north where there will spring a burning lake burstingfrom a black mountain's peak.

(50:10):
There I will drown my father's killer.
Follow the Vixen's tale to the dwelling
The ancient one, to seek the fated sword that matches your brutal rage.
Why speak ye my fortune?
Which?
For where your path of ashes ends, another will begin.

(50:36):
Her journey.
A maiden king.
Release me.
You cannot escape what fate the norms have spun.
The atmosphere in this sequence is just incredible.
Like even before he's in the temple, like the emptiness of this world, it is bothdreamlike, but in a way that feels tactile and tangible.

(51:04):
It's really amazing.
And it's one of several sequences in the movie, which is deliberately unclear if theevents are occurring are in reality or in the character's head.
You don't know.
Yeah.
And, and there's the reference that this, the witch has during that tree ceremony, he shedhis last tear.

(51:25):
Yes.
And the priest fool took it from him and said, will be the last tear you will shed.
It will be given back to you when you need to, you know, remember.
Yeah.
And she gives him back the tear.
I believe it's at this point.
Yeah.
I think it's in the first scene.
absolutely is.
And so as she's reminding him of the need for vengeance, she gives him that tear, youknow, as a reminder of dear old dad and his pro his vow made in, the bowels of the earth

(51:54):
and he's been running from for 20 years, do another, do another, you know, Viking for hirestuff, you know, now, Hey pal, now's the time you gotta, you gotta, you gotta get that
vengeance because that's what you, you, that is your fate.
It's not even about it.
You vowed it.
He vowed it.
And it, I mean, it is his fate.
It's the vow.

(52:15):
And as you say, just as the point along the way, none of the supernatural stuff so far hashappened in the context of the film with a, what I would call a reliable third person POV.
This could be in his head, hyped up from the battle.

(52:36):
Right.
And to me, that is one of the things
that fundamentally differentiates it from The Witch, where The Witch, there's doubtwhether is The Witch real or is it just their belief in the devil and the supernatural in
that movie, but there's tangible things that happen in the movie that only could have beendone by another party.

(53:01):
when the child gets snatched early in The Witch, there's no way that that could have been.
anything other than it's not like, oh, it could have just been someone hiding in thewoods.
That was a supernatural thing there.
It's like the door handle turning in the shining.
is, there's tangible evidence of the supernatural, not necessarily here.

(53:22):
one thing that I think trends toward the leaning supernatural is the knowledge she giveshim about the sword that he goes to seek.
Yes.
Now, one, you could invent things about, well, maybe he had heard it elsewhere and he justincorporated it into this part of his mind.
But I, think that for me, my preferred headcanon and we'll, as we go breadcrumbs down theroad, as we go through it, is that the supernatural occurs only in your mind.

(53:54):
Right.
That it is a tangible external.
It's Yes.
But it happens in your mind.
It does not.
Essentially, the gods come to you in your mind.
They don't take a physical form.
And that spells and things can work.
It's, you know, kind of that's a very modern interpretation with Wicca and things thatyou're influencing things in the universe, but it's not Lord of the Rings where you go,

(54:18):
yeah.
And then you like do a spell and Gandalf flies against a wall.
That's not the magic in this movie.
But the seeress does tell him that he will go to an island in the north.
where he will meet his father's killer by a burning lake.
And she also predicts where his path ends, another will begin, that of a maiden king.

(54:39):
So the seeress disappears and soon after Amleth learns that his uncle was defeated by KingHarald of Norway, who took over his kingdom and Fjolnir fled to Iceland where he now makes
his living as a sheep farmer.
So Amleth...
disguises himself as a slave, he literally brands himself as a slave, and he sneaks aboardthis boat bound for Iceland.

(55:02):
I think it's really interesting that by having King Harold of Norway take over thekingdom, it's a quest of pure vengeance.
It is not a quest of writing a political wrong.
It's not, I need to regain my throne, which is different from Shakespeare's version ofthis, where

(55:25):
The Claudius takes old Hamlet's throne and Hamlet is not just seeking personal revenge,but theoretically restoring the political balance to what it should be.
Here, that's off the table because he's already got, he's already lost his throne.
Yeah.
And that is part, and you can have a tragedy trying to regain your kingdom, but the, this,think just makes all of the violent steps.

(55:50):
extra tragic.
So where, where Anleth is going will be extra tragic because there will be no restorationof anything.
Right.
but also the uncle who killed his brother to take the throne and take the queen.
Well, the queen's not a queen anymore.
There is no kingdom.
It's implied.
think he lost it fairly quickly.
Yeah.
Which also is interesting because that goes into this notion of can you, are you a king?

(56:15):
Are you a slave?
Can you go between now?
He was never a slave, but
he did not win a kingdom through legitimate means.
He was not such a good leader of men that his army overtook a kingdom.
He was a snake in the grass to his brother, found his brother alone, had a group of menand just executed him.
And so that is not a king in this story.

(56:38):
That is worthy enough to hold a kingdom and he very soon lost it and is now like this, asyou said, a farmer and sheep herder or whatever.
And apparently,
rather okay with being a big fish in a very small pond.
Yeah, like he's got some of his guys still with him, like, but he essentially is exiled atthat time Iceland basically would have been the edge of the world.

(57:05):
And he seems all right with it.
know, truth be told, he doesn't seem like he's, you know, he's too upset about it.
It's just, you know, Hey, he's got, he's got Nicole Kidman and you know,
a couple of guys and, and some sheep.
it's rather interesting.
Hardly seems worth having killed one's brother over.
No, absolutely.

(57:25):
His material level of life was better being the brother of the king than it is being theking of this dirt path.
I, one of the things that I love is, the old kingdom, while it, as I said, it's not verygrand.
It is filled with life.
It's a forest, it's forested and there, you know, there's vegetation and thingseverywhere.
You,

(57:46):
Sometimes that has that dangerous feel, but you get the feeling that it is very verdantand full of life.
This is a, like just a rock with no trees.
There are no trees anywhere.
Like it are almost none.
And this is just, it's so desolate and gray and cold and barren.
And you just, you know, it's the worst.

(58:07):
It's indicative of the, you know, how, how barren their souls are having done what they'vedone.
Yeah.
So there's a long and perilous sea voyage before they arrive in Iceland.
This is where, again, this is where Amleth meets and forms the connection with Olga,because they are on this long, they're both sold into slavery and they're on this long sea

(58:28):
voyage together and they start to kind of just make a bit of a bond and they start to formwhat I guess could be called a friendship by modern standards, but and eventually that's
going to become something else.
And when they arrive in Iceland, they find that
That Fjolnir is there and he's married to Gungnirn.
I hadn't really thought of it.
It's a hell of a meat cute, isn't it?

(58:51):
It's a hell of a meat cute.
is.
My best brother's wedding.
That's what this one is.
Or my best uncle's wedding.
My best uncle's wedding.
There we go.
So they find out that Fjolnirn...
While you were enslaved.
I'm going to keep going.
When Amleth met Olga.

(59:13):
you know, here's the thing.
The irony is, and we'll get to this, I'm rooting for this couple, Rob.
yeah.
I'm rooting for them.
I like them.
want them to, I, you know, I'm rooting for this couple from the jump.
So that meet cute works.
Yes.
It works a hell of a lot better than edge of the X.
Yeah.
And this is, cause this is a movie.

(59:33):
I mean, and you're supposed to root for them.
She represents the feminine.
And again, they tell you this when she's scratching at the earth and
and praying to the feminine to do the end, what she represents and what she wants out oflife would be the proper choice compared to the masculine, over masculine, destructive
energy of Amleth, which can serve a purpose in this world.

(59:56):
I don't think that, you know, to say all of this metaphorical stuff, I don't think thismovie is anti-man, but it certainly is a movie about an imbalance of.
of energies in life.
You know, I was going to say it's not anti-man, but it is about balance and the perils ofimbalance.
And she is absolutely the voice of reason in this movie.

(01:00:19):
Like when Olga tells you something, you listen.
Yeah.
And this is a
You know, she, while I do think represents more love than him, it's not like she doesn'talso have hate.
No, that's what's so great.
has hatred, she has vengeance.
It's not, it's, which again, going to your thing of this is not a modern female characterin period dress.

(01:00:44):
Right.
She accepts a lot of the harshness of this world in a way that wouldn't necessarily, youknow, spark weepiness in a modern person, but.
it's still better than the other way.
She is, she is settled on, she wants to kill her captors, but she wants to kill, not forvengeance necessarily, but to be able to escape.

(01:01:07):
Yeah.
Like she can be just as merciless.
It's not, it's, is, it is not a, you know, a modern perspective on, you know, on live andlet live.
She, she is.
She's a badass lady.
Like, there's no question.
at the end, in her motive, she wants to kill her captors so she can go away, go away fromthis place.

(01:01:30):
wants to be able to create a life and freedom.
he really is just focused on pure distraction.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So Amleth discovers that Fjolnir, he is still marrying to his mother, and now she has bornhim a son.
With Fuehler's first son is now an adult who we saw as a baby in the scene in the hall.

(01:01:55):
Now he's fully grown.
And this is a scene again when Amleth sees them from a distance, right?
And he is there with Olga, or at least gets to talk to Olga pretty quickly thereafter.
This is another instance where the movie tells you exactly what it is.
Because I think she asks him about, you know,

(01:02:15):
going on or whatever.
And he essentially says, it's a nightmare.
Right.
And then as she's walking away, she tells him that, then you must wake up.
And he never does, but it's, it's, it's right there.
That is her perspective.
Yeah.
Is that she wants to wake up from the nightmare and he is faded to the nightmare.

(01:02:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
So he, he, one night, Amleth, he sneaks out of his slave quarters and as prophesied, hesees a vixen, a Fox.
and he follows it to a cave.
And there he encounters a He-Witch, is also the opening narrator, and the He-Witch has theskull of Himir, the Fool.
And through the witch, Himir tells Amleth where he could find the sword that he could useto kill his uncle.

(01:03:02):
And this is interesting because this encounter with the skull of the Fool
connects to Shakespeare's version of the story.
Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act Five, scene one, the gravedigger scene, where Hamlet recognizesthe skull of Yorick, the king's jester.
Alas, poor Yorick.
I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.

(01:03:26):
In two different versions of the story, the young man encounters the skull of the foolthat he knew as a child.
Yeah.
The context is very different.
Here, it's this dark.
prophetic thing as opposed to sort of this wistful longing that Hamlet has inShakespeare's version of the story.
But the common elements exist even here.

(01:03:47):
Tellings of stories separated by hundreds of years doing versions of stories that havebeen told for thousands of years.
That is fascinating to me.
Yeah, yeah.
And in this sequence, this is another one where I think the visuals play, you get thevisual metaphor and then a character just
straight up tells you what the visual metaphor is.

(01:04:07):
Right.
So as he's escaping at night, as he's crawling out following the Fox, but there's this oneshot where we see the village down below and like the hills, the crack, the edge of the
hill is there and we get the wolf coming up over the hill first or the fog, you know, andthen he's following, we see him crawling behind.

(01:04:29):
So he has literally, and
we had some of this with the berserker imagery earlier, like he's literally an animal.
He is not walking like a man.
He is crawling and in a pack, you know, a pack of two, but he is a little animal and, youcould go, well, you know, that's me reading into it, which is true.
But then when you get to the he, which he literally says, he says that Amos Amwith isstill a beast in man's skin.

(01:04:58):
Yeah.
And
And that is what the movie has been telling you.
And at this point, like I, don't even think you can call it subtext.
It's just text of the film.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anger and revenge make you less than human.
They turn you from a man into a beast.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And he's also told that that one day he will have to choose between kindness for you, forhis kin or hate for his enemies.

(01:05:23):
And and, he replies, well, that's nothing.
My heart knows only revenge.
Yes.
And we'll come back to that when he has that choice, but it's interesting hisinterpretation of what that choice is and means.
anyway, yeah.
So Amleth, he then descends into this barrow, which is an underground tomb where he findsthis dead warrior with a sword.

(01:05:51):
I mean, immediately you think.
of the scene from Conan the Barbarian where he stumbles into the Atlantean tomb where hegets the sword that he wheels throughout the movie.
What different the difference here is that Amleth has to seemingly fight an undead warriorin order to take the sword, is exactly what you think will happen the first time you watch

(01:06:12):
Conan the Barbarian.
Right.
It doesn't there.
And the fact that it does here and it's a it's a really cool fight.
it's great.
He.
winds up winning, you know, and can get the sword, although, and winds up the heading, uh,in, very dramatic fashion, the, I guess the ghost King, whatever the undead warrior it's,

(01:06:33):
it's known as a drug in Norse mythology.
then, uh, this goes to the, is, is the magic real physically?
Is it just him being a little nuts or could it be real?
But in his mind is after the fight, you have a hard cut.
Yeah.
and he is standing in front of the seated warrior who still has everything intact,including the sword in its hands.

(01:07:02):
And so all of that played out in his mind or did it happen in real reality?
But then it morphs you back into you're resetting your video game.
Now you get the prize.
I mean, it's all very
spooky in a very cool way.
I think it's what you said earlier.
The supernatural happens.
It's not that the supernatural doesn't happen, but it happens in his mind.

(01:07:25):
And then he takes the sword from the physical figure and the figure crumbles very muchlike in Conan the Barbarian.
I want to point out that that effect was done by a special effects artist named Sam Conwayin The Northman.
His father, Richard Conway, did the similar effect.
in Kona and the Barbarian.

(01:07:45):
that's fantastic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I also want to point out what is a similarity to another work.
I just I want to mention it before we move on.
This sequence calls to mind the scene with the Barrowites in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings,a sequence that was left out of Peter Jackson's film trilogy, where Frodo and company

(01:08:06):
encounter a similar creature.
And in that story, too, the company escaped the Barrow with weapons that they will use.
throughout the rest of the movie.
So all these storytellers, Tolkien, Milius, and Eggers are all drawing from these sameNorthern European mythological traditions.
So we see these beats being echoed in very different works, but they're all kind ofdrawing from that same pool.

(01:08:33):
So Amwith continues from here on forward.
He continues to play the role of the slave.
in Fjolnir's house.
He's looking for an opportunity to get revenge.
And by the way, the sword that he took can only be drawn at night.
Yes.
Or at the gates of hell.
that's if you draw it during daylight.
Yes, the gates of hell will open.

(01:08:55):
Yeah.
And hell was a place in Norse mythology.
It's actually H-E-L.
It is a realm of the dead, but a different one from that of Valhalla.
Oh, I also want to mention at this point.
that he is convinced that his mother is only feigning love for Fjolnir in order to protecther child.
then one game of jugger is going to change everything, It is jugger.

(01:09:22):
Evelyn is recruited to play it in a sporting match against another farm.
I mean, it's basically the most brutal version.
jugger.
It's jugger.
It's the most brutal version of field hockey that you can imagine.
It's also pretty close to modern day Shinty.
and Hurling, which are played in Scotland and Ireland respectively.
And during this game, he saves the life of Fjolnir's son, his half brother, and as such isgranted increased position and privilege.

(01:09:51):
this is this is the son that the Queen bore.
Right.
This is the prior son.
Not the prior son.
This is the youngest who's maybe, you know, he's 10, 11 something.
He's about the same age as Amleth in the opening sequence.
And he he.
He's granted the opportunity to be intimate with Olga.
He's like, we'll allow you to do that.

(01:10:13):
And there's this great moment, one of my favorite moments in the movie, where he goeslooking for her and he thinks he sees her.
And then he sees her, this woman that he sees, this blonde woman with another man.
And then from behind him, Olga appears and they have this exchange.
She says, you found me.

(01:10:33):
Were you lost?
Only if you were searching for me.
my God.
Like that is Rob in the midst of this, this hardcore Viking movie.
You have this moment that is, that is melting my 21st century heart.
like, I I'm so rooting for these kids.
that is something that Conan the barbarian, the film had that many of the others didn't,which was a credible.

(01:11:00):
romance.
Yes.
In the context of a sword and sorcery, you know, film, I get it.
Like, you know, we're talking about degrees and context.
But Valeria was the real deal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You were rooting for them and you were rooting for the relationship to be something thatwould be, you know, illuminating enough to perhaps set a hero on a different path.

(01:11:23):
Now, Conan, the path that he goes down, I think it is presented as heroic.
Even though he winds up in a very similar place, except he, you know, to Amleth, thereare, there's at least one key difference.
but the, the idea that, you know, going off and, starting a new and having a positivething in life and a positive relationship, is not something that can overcome.

(01:11:53):
There's a difference between John Malleus and Robert Eggers as filmmakers right there.
Yeah.
So Amleth, he starts to create all kinds of chaos on the farm.
He kills some of Fjolnir's men in order to sow discord and distrust.
He arranges the bodies in this bizarre tableau.

(01:12:14):
It looks like something Hannibal Lecter would do from like the Hannibal TV series.
It's very unsettling.
It's very unsettling.
And it's it's nailed up against the building and
First, their instinct, the instinct of Fulner and his men is to blame the Christianslaves, and they even comment how their god is a corpse nailed to a tree, which is such an

(01:12:38):
interesting, you know, outsider perspective of Christianity, which they were, they werenot, Christianity obviously existed at this time, but the Norse were not necessarily
believers at this point.
as even this
Empire, you will, or kingdom of nothing is crumbling for Fjolnir.

(01:13:01):
I want to go back to that idea of who you are fated to be in your fate in society.
And this, or you could call it his character, but this is a guy whose tragic flaw is thathe's weak and accommodating.
the fact that, you know, after that brutal display from Amleth, he's like,

(01:13:24):
he saved my boy.
I'll give him extra special privileges.
The fact that he's not seen as a threat.
Yeah.
Because he has such little imagination and can't can't really see past his own BS in thatway.
The way that they're trying to reinforce things.
And then you have all of this stuff happening and you're not making the connection.

(01:13:47):
I mean, this is a guy who does not deserve to have even this farm.
No.
No, he doesn't deserve a farm, certainly doesn't deserve a freaking kingdom.
No.
Like, you know, even a small one.
So following this, Olga, she puts her earth magic to work, putting hallucinogenicmushrooms in the food.
And as I mentioned before, Fjolnir's men do not have a good trip.

(01:14:12):
Like, the guy with no nose, he's still hanging around, he freaks out.
Another dude stabs himself in the throat and emits this, all this chaos.
Amleth sneaks into his mother's chamber.
Now, this movie does something very interesting with Nicole Kidman, who is a great actressand obviously an actress of stature.
But up until this point, we haven't seen a whole lot of her.

(01:14:35):
And in particular, once they arrive in Iceland, a lot of what we see of Nicole Kidman isfrom a distance.
It's Amleth's perspective of her from a distance.
He was not allowed to get close enough.
Right.
Because that, I would imagine that would be the reality.
You know, your king's coming out and bossing you around, but the queen is dealing with themaidens in the house.

(01:14:55):
Queenly duties, queenly duties.
But she has not been the focus of this movie until now, until this moment.
his mother enters the room that he's hiding in and Amleth steps out from a hiding place.
puts a sword to her throat.
And then he reveals his identity.
And that's where things get really interesting.

(01:15:19):
I see you have inherited your father's symbolness.
What say you?
I never mourned him.
You were his queen.
Father endured me because I bore him a son.

(01:15:43):
No.
His affections were only for silver and rotting his whores.
I know not if he had heart enough to love you.
Silence!
He was a coward feigning to be a king.
He was nothing.
He was just another proud, lust-stained slaver.
Hold your tongue!
You spit in the face of your dead husband.

(01:16:03):
He had his brother.
His fine brother.
A bastard has no shame of himself, nor is trade.
Your uncle loved me, though he knew well my past.

(01:16:29):
Even now you believe the fairy tale I told you is true.
A noble pride hailing from the land of Brittany.
never began as his bride.
How easily we all become princesses again when the beasts take us for their wives.

(01:16:55):
Yes.
You were forced upon your mother.
Gunnar was received freely with love.
know you this.
It was I who begged on my knees for Fiona to kill King Arven.

(01:17:17):
rest my lips upon his strong sweet hand.
I kissed it and I...
And so this day would never come, Filnya, or to tear death along with your own mother'sblessing.

(01:17:42):
But I saw it.
I saw Filnya carrying you away, screaming.
He's laughing.
Nice!
Now that you are here, what do we do?
I should kill you.

(01:18:03):
And all that is dear to you.
But you love me.
A son loves his mother.
A mother loves her son.
And you saved your brother's life.
You.
You.
Love.

(01:18:30):
None but me knows who you are.
And you are so hot for revenge.
Savage!
If you kill
Kill Thorir and if you are so untamed as to kill Malygon...

(01:18:56):
You would be my new kingdom.
And together.
You're a Bitch!
Your taste and your mind reek of your foul father.

(01:19:21):
You should have joined him in death.
Your words are poison!
I am your death.
So this reveal that the mother was taken as a slave, taken in conquest, and that she hatedher husband.

(01:19:41):
and was plotting the downfall of her husband with his brother, who she truly loved.
Whoa.
That's a big, whoa.
That's a big, that's, that is a big midpoint reveal.
Amazing.
It's amazing and fascinating and everything.
turns the movie on its head because everything we've at least believed of, of Amelie'sfather, we believe to be true.

(01:20:07):
And maybe it's all not quite so simple.
And I love the bit in her story that what Amleth heard was not screams.
It was laughter.
Yeah.
You know, it was joyous yelping, not terrified.
and I think again, this just is another part of the story for as much as this, this moviewill, I think, take a dim view of revenge at all costs.

(01:20:35):
You know, it is another point in feeling there's not a king and didn't deserve anything.
Right.
It wasn't his idea.
He wasn't strong enough to do it.
He got manipulated into backstabbing to take a place that wasn't his.
Cause while I do think a modern audience might take the view of, yeah, revenge isn't thebest.

(01:20:56):
Well, this movie is, as you said, it's steeped in its time and the know your place.
Part of this movie is in the hierarchy of society.
mean, this is not
what this movie at least is playing with is not stuff that I would imagine many modernpeople would be on board with.
But it is presented in the context of the time.
And you know, this is a guy who never deserved to be king.

(01:21:18):
No, ever.
And frankly, from the viewpoint of the movie, this is also why you don't mix your, yourcast system because Amwith's father should have never taken this queen.
Yeah.
He should have married the girl from the next kingdom.
That decision to take that slave as his queen, that set in motion a chain of events thatled to his death and the destruction of his kingdom.

(01:21:48):
Because you get the impression, at least I did, that Amleth's father could hold thatkingdom, which his brother clearly could not.
Yes.
And the one thing I will say, I don't believe the movie is coming down on the fact thatpeople shouldn't
inherently move between classes.
What I think it's saying is when you have the society where this kind of idea of violenceand revenge is so ingrained, trying to cross those lines of your hierarchy is going to be

(01:22:19):
problematic because people are going to kill each other.
Yes, because unlike most period dramas, these are not modern characters cloaked in periodgarb.
They are.
They have very different views on the world.
views that you and I wouldn't hold, but that doesn't mean that their views weren't theirviews.
It is a more realistic depiction.

(01:22:39):
It's not a true story, but you could have a realistic depiction of a time and a place,even in a fictionalized tale.
I also want to mention that it's this incredible bit where she tries to seduce him.
She tries to seduce her own son, and holy shit.

(01:23:00):
Nicole Kidman is amazing and terrifying in this scene where she says basically that ifAmleth kills Fjolnir and his two sons, the younger of whom is hers, he will become her new
king and she kisses him, but then tries to take the sword.
It's really something.
And again, the way this movie holds back Nicole Kidman, they wait to fully unleash the

(01:23:30):
the essentially the acting might of Nicole Kidman till this point fairly late in themovie.
It's an extraordinary choice and it's it's so effective.
my goodness.
Yeah.
And, and, well, she is the driver of the scene.
I will, mention, Alexander's performance.

(01:23:51):
Yeah.
he's getting all of this dropped on him.
mean, it's an extraordinary scene between
yeah, no, it is really.
And on the way out, I mentioned, he flees and on the way out, he kills the older son andliterally takes his heart, which is going to become important.

(01:24:11):
That sends Fjolnir into a rage, Gundren reveals that her son is responsible.
Fjolnir threatens to kill all the slaves if they don't reveal what they know, but beforehe can kill Olga,
Amleth appears and offers to trade the son's heart in exchange for Olga's life.
Olga escapes and Amleth is captured and he is tortured for the location of the heartbecause I guess that was important.

(01:24:37):
And Amleth said he essentially tells them he brought an animal heart and if they want thereal human heart.
Yeah, I got a heart on me, but how do you know it's his?
How do you know it's not a pig's heart?
Come on, you know?
And then he's strung up in this building.
And it reminded me of Conan being crucified on the tree of woe.

(01:24:58):
He's up there and as he's...
It's funny because in that movie, birds come to Conan and like they sort of torment himand he bites one of them.
It's really great.
But here, the ravens, which are servants of Odin, you know, they may be there to free him.

(01:25:18):
Fjolnir buries his son and in doing so makes sacrifices to the gods.
And this is a really interesting scene because you have this young girl who's singing thisfuneral dirge, what I guess is a funeral dirge.
And in the foreground, the younger son is beheading a horse.
That is the sacrifice.
And as we're watching the beheading of the horse, it's done in a way that it's not, youdon't see the beheading.

(01:25:44):
It's not like, my God, but like, you know what's happening.
But in the background, the singer is being killed.
by one of the priestesses as a human sacrifice.
And it's it's, it's this extraordinary scene again, what you focus on and what's happeningin the background.
It's in some ways not unlike the, the attack, the, the berserker attack early in themovie.

(01:26:07):
Yeah.
I mean, it's just incredible.
And where this movie is going to wind up is, again, if, if you're not teed up for tragedy,I don't know what to tell you.
And it's here that we,
They go to, they say, okay, now it's time they're going to go kill Amleth.
Okay.
He's, he's bound up in one of these buildings.

(01:26:28):
and they go and they find he's gone.
Only Ravens remain.
guess this is another point in the favor of there is magic of some kind, but again, youknow, it's limited Ravens were influenced to come and peck some, some rope.
Yeah.
Like, know, could that have just happened?
Extraordinary, possible.

(01:26:49):
beyond the realm of possibility.
It's not blue flames out of hands.
Right, exactly, exactly.
But here we get one of the most striking visions of this movie, as Amleth is carried awayby a valkyrie riding a horse across the land and then across the sky.

(01:27:10):
And it's one of those images that people always think of with this movie, the valkyriewith these intense blue eyes and teeth adorned with carvings.
They are not braces.
Some people think, it's braces.
They are carvings in the teeth.
They are based on tooth carvings found in Norse burials from that era.
And he's being carried away by this Valkyrie.

(01:27:33):
But then he awakens in a hot spring and he asks, is this Valhalla?
And the answer comes from Olga.
She says she's no Valkyrie.
Rob, I beg to differ on that point.
And then I'm with-
decides he's gonna leave Iceland with Olga, he's gonna forgo his revenge and sail away torefuge in the Orkney Islands where they can live together in peace.

(01:27:57):
My fate brought me to Iceland to carry out my pledge of vengeance.
I faint.
Ready me for finding you.
I thought I must always shield my heart in stone.
I could not think I would open it to a Northfin.

(01:28:22):
You sacrificed yourself that I could flee.
And you came back for me.
I have never felt close to another person.

(01:28:43):
Not since I was a child.
I curse your mother's evil.
You melted my past.
Could it not be that your norms of faith have spun another thread for you to follow?

(01:29:04):
What do your earth gods tell you?
that whatever I go, must take you with me.
against my own orc name.
We can find safe passage there.

(01:29:24):
Together.
Yet I cannot truly believe that you have extinguished your fire for vengeance.
Hate is all I have ever known.
But I wish I could be free of it.
It is for you to choose.

(01:29:48):
Let us find our future.
And this is where I want to just talk about what I think is really what makes for a reallyeffective tragedy.
I have found that in my experience with productions of Hamlet, for example, a reallyeffective one can actually make you think maybe, just maybe, there's a way out of it this

(01:30:15):
time.
you think about that here, I just
I just want Amleth and to sail away together.
I want them to just go, man.
But on board the boat, Amleth has this vision that Olga is pregnant with his child,including the girl who the seers prophesize will one day rule as a maiden king.

(01:30:37):
So here we have this moment where he has to choose between kindness to kin and revenge onhis enemies.
And he says he chooses both.
It's a very interesting interpretation because he's like, if Fjolnir's alive, he'll-
that his children will never be safe.
That's, that's Amleth's reasoning.
But I think in my opinion, it's bullshit.

(01:30:57):
Yes, I too, there's nothing about Fuehler and his quote unquote kingdom.
This guy's not coming and hunting him down.
He's not searching the world.
It's not like you can't look them up on Google and track them down.
You know, essentially Amleth disappears into the world.
How would he know?
You know, change your name.
He is a snake in the grass who really can't handle anything.

(01:31:19):
He has nothing left.
He's not coming after you, but even in a world where he did, you could totally be readyfor him.
This I find interesting is that he was ready to go.
Bear with me a little bit.
Amleth was ready to break the cycle when it was just him and Olga.
Right.
But once he knows that the cycle is going to continue because he is going to havechildren.

(01:31:46):
His uncle tried to kill him in the usurping.
And then as part of going after his uncle, he killed his son, the uncle's son.
And so it's almost like by having life, by having new life in his mind, that equates onlywith more death and revenge.
so that, yeah, yeah.

(01:32:08):
It's, it's yeah.
Yeah, he jumps off the boat, he swims back to the island and like a badass.
a badass.
There's no question.
But like, here's how effective this movie is, because ordinarily, Rob, you know me.
I would be shouting from the rooftops, dude, go live your life in the Orkney Islands withAnya Taylor Joy.

(01:32:30):
If that's your choice, you should absolutely do that.
It's like the end of heat and spoilers for the end of heat.
Man, if your choice is flying off with judging Amy or dying in a shootout near LAX, youget on that plane.
But this movie creates a world that is so believable.
I understand why Amleth does what he does.

(01:32:52):
Living in that world, raised with that set of beliefs, he has no choice but to follow whathe believes his fate is.
I mean, I get it.
I wouldn't do it, but I get it.
mean, again.
through the course of this story in his life.
Like, Amleth is not a man.

(01:33:12):
He almost thinks he is.
then he is reminded he is a beast bent on revenge and that's it.
He's a beast and he's a child because his growth as a human being basically got stuntedwhen his father was killed in front of him.
Yeah.
Directly after his father.

(01:33:33):
directly after his father avenge me.
If I'm done, yeah.
Avenge me.
Nothing else will matter.
else will matter.
You know, so I mean, how, in a sense, you and I could look at it be like, hey, listen,take off with Anya Taylor Joy, go to the Orkney Islands.
What, what, what do you want?
But he, his mind in some ways has been warped by all of this bullshit.

(01:33:57):
Yeah.
All of this stuff that they believe.
Ultimately, he has no choice but to do it.
And he gets off the boat and he goes back to the mainland.
And from this point forward, the path is inevitable.
So let's draw that sword during daylight.
And he goes, he kills some of Fjolnir's men.

(01:34:21):
His own mother attacks him and he stabs her through the heart.
And then his younger brother, his half brother attacks him and Ameth kills him too.
And Fjolnir...
seeing his wife and child dead basically says, let's meet at the gates of hell for a finalshowdown.
The gates of hell here being the volcano Helka in Southern Iceland.
And we have this final conflict with, you know, uncle and nephew, this fierce battle,stark naked, might add, surrounded by fire and ash.

(01:34:53):
And body oil.
And body oil.
Or perhaps sweat, it's- might be, but you know.
These are two of the most glistening bodies you will ever see.
Yeah.
And, and, Amleth, he kills Fjolnir, he cuts his head clean off, but he's mortally woundedhimself.
And he's lying basically, he's basically lying on the side of Mount Doom as this, thisvolcano is erupting and, and all this, he has this vision of Olga and their children.

(01:35:19):
And she tells him in his mind that they were safe and to make his passage.
And the final image of the film, we see the Valkyrie carry him on horseback.
through the door of Valhalla.
But again, all in his mind.
It's all in his mind.
He could have just gone off and lived with Anya Taylor-Joy and live in the sweet life inthe Orkney Islands, but his mind was so warped by the experiences of what he was told and

(01:35:49):
the beliefs that he held, there was no way out, you know?
And that's the final battle I love, the uncle is beheaded.
and Amleth is stabbed through the heart is the fatal wound.
And those are the two things that needed fixing.
The way they looked at the world and their hearts.

(01:36:10):
And so they are what must be wounded for them to go.
And this does break the cycle.
There's literally no one left for revenge, which is the only way.
for those kids to grow up and one of them can become the Maiden King.
I believe a great, great, great, great, great, great granddaughter will settle in the newworld.

(01:36:31):
Yes.
And perhaps befriend a goat down the line.
Oh, I mean, I, you know, Rob, I, I, saw this movie in the movie theater back in 2022.
I saw it.
Here's the weird thing.
I saw this movie up at the AMC up in Porter Ranch, which is where I'm
fairly certain they filmed the now famous AMC Nicole Kidman promo.

(01:36:57):
So here I'm sitting in the theater that they filmed it watching a movie with Nicole Kidmanin it, it was very surreal.
I watched this one, I liked it when I saw it in 2022.
This is the second time and I found it an even more deeper, richer and rewardingexperience.
You know, they say it's the kind of movie that people say,

(01:37:20):
They don't make anymore, but here it is.
You know, extraordinary.
Yeah, I really liked it the second time.
I liked it the first time, but I do think that I liked it even better revisiting it here acouple of years later, and it made me want to watch or rewatch another film.

(01:37:42):
Which was Nicholas winning reference Hall of rising with.
Mads Mikkelsen.
nice.
And there are similarities in the worldview of the films, I believe.
But man, man, this thing's a visual feast.
The sound design is amazing.
Yeah.
The performances, the badassery, it's got it all.

(01:38:06):
It feels like a movie that Orion Pictures would have made in the early eighties and thenwould have gone on to be one of the most influential movies of that time.
Like it has that.
that early Orion pictures feel to it.
I mean, it's a modern film.
like, so like Orion pictures mixed with A24.
Like it's the, it's the melding of those two aesthetics.

(01:38:26):
I mean, Robert Eggers, he is at the top of the list of my favorite filmmakers workingtoday.
Like his, just the way he creates these worlds with a sense of history and characters whoare not merely modern people in fancy dress, but are totally authentic to the time.
I can't wait to see what he does with Nosferatu, which will be in theaters by the timethis episode drops.

(01:38:49):
But we are recording it a little earlier than its release, but I'm looking forward tothat.
And yeah, I mean, it's just it's an extraordinary film.
I can't recommend it enough.
And I've loved diving into it.
This has been a great this has been a great one.
So I think that brings us to the end of today's episode.
I want to take a moment to let people know what's coming up in the first couple of monthsof 2025.

(01:39:12):
So.
We're going to be doing a couple more bonus episodes, as I mentioned at the top of theshow in February, the first of which will come out on February 4th.
And we'll be taking a look at Spike Lee's landmark 1989 film, Do the Right Thing.
And that will be followed by an episode exploring his 1992 historical epic, Malcolm X.

(01:39:35):
So we're going to do Do the Right Thing, followed by Malcolm X.
We were going to do them together, but we decided they're both so
There's just so much to them that sort of will do them as like kind of two episodesconnected to one another.
With one coming just before the boys in the hood trend and one coming in the midst of it.

(01:39:57):
Lots to discuss about why they weren't making more movies like Do the Right Thing andMalcolm X or what they did make.
Sure.
Two movies that honestly should have won Oscars and didn't.
That's another, well, I'm sure we'll touch on that at some point.
And then in March, we'll be kicking off our next series, which I am very excited toannounce is Get Me Another Fatal Attraction.

(01:40:23):
So we'll be looking at the wave of thrillers from the late 80s and 90s, usually revolvingaround a stranger who comes into people's lives only to turn out to be...
very dangerous.
the blank from hell trend, girlfriend from hell, boyfriend from hell, tenant from hell,employee from hell, et cetera, it is going to be a wild ride.

(01:40:45):
Yeah, because the only reason you let someone that dangerous into your life and ignore allthe warning signs is because they are sexy as hell.
You know it.
Yeah, so join us on February 4th for our look at Spike Lee's Do The Right Thing.
Thank you so much for listening.
Again, we are your host, Chris Iannacone and Rob Lemorgz.
If you've enjoyed our show, please consider subscribing and following us on Blue Sky,Instagram, threads, and Twitter at Get Me Another Pod.

(01:41:11):
In addition, check out the Justin Bean Radio Hour wherever you listen to podcasts.
And if you like the show, tell your friends about it, tell your enemies about it, tell theskull of your father's fool about it, and join us next time as we continue to explore what
happens when Hollywood says, get me another.