Don't Get Me Another... The Postman

Our post-apocalyptic summer climaxes with Kevin Costner’s THE POSTMAN, a movie that plays with and goes beyond the conventions of the genre in a wonderfully bizarre way.

Does Costner perform Shakespeare with a mule? Yes. 

Are there clips from Universal Soldier and The Sound of Music in the film? You bet your bippy. 

Was it unfairly maligned and gave us the feels anyway? Tune in to find out! (But also, yes.)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
you
Hello and welcome to a special bonus episode of Get Me Another, a podcast where we explorethose movies that followed in the wake of blockbuster hits and attempted to replicate

(00:20):
their success.
My name is Chris Ayanakone and with me as always is my co -host Rob Lamorgus.
I ain't never had the bad mumps.
Don't listen to them.
I knew it was going to be a bad mumps reference.
Had to be.
Had to be.
I don't make these decisions that they're handed down from on high.

(00:41):
I know.
There's a board of directors who runs the whole show.
Today is the second of our two Kevin Costner -centric bonus episodes that act as a kind ofpostscript to our recent Get Me Another Mad Max series.
And they are also entries in our continuing series of Don't Get Me Another episodes.

(01:01):
In these bonus episodes,
we discuss a movie which Hollywood had high hopes for, but for one reason or anotherdidn't meet the expectations that were set for it.
And to be clear, just because a movie is featured on Don't Get Me Another doesn't meanthat it's in any way a bad movie, just that it didn't meet the commercial expectations set
for it.
Plenty of great movies were box office disappointments.

(01:24):
Will that apply to Kevin Costner's 1997 post -apocalyptic epic, The Postman?
We shall see.
But before that,
I want to announce what's coming next for Get Me Another.
As I'm sure everyone is aware, fall is fast approaching and that means the spooky seasonis upon us.

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And here at Get Me Another, that means horror movies.
Two years ago, we did a Get Me Another Halloween series in which we explored the wave ofslasher films that came in the wake of John Carpenter's classic.
This year, we're very excited to announce what is
a kind of spiritual follow -up to that series.
So pack your camping gear, put on your hiking boots, and grab your machete as we journeyinto the woods for Get Me Another Friday the 13th.

(02:22):
But whatever you do, don't fake your own death to try and freak out your friends, becauseyou're gonna fucking die.
No good ever comes of that.
No good ever comes of that.
Longtime listeners, remember we actually discussed the original Fry of the 13th in episodetwo of our Get Me Another Halloween series.
And the huge success of Fry of the 13th kicked off a wave of slasher movies that had itsown distinct flavor, epitomized by remote locations,

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spooky local legends, hulking mass killers, and graphic violence.
And we're very excited to announce that joining us as a regular host for this series willbe filmmaker and Reverend Entertainment founder, Justin Beam, who has been with us on many
episodes.
He will be joining us for the whole series.
Justin is a lifelong horror fan and we are just thrilled to have him with us for a fullseries.

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Join us for episode one of Get Me Another Friday the 13th, coming to you, notcoincidentally, on Friday, September 13th.
But before that, we have one more post -apocalyptic film to discuss.
Released in 1997, just two years after Costner's Waterworld, this is Don't Get Me Another,The Postman.

(03:43):
In the future, after the Great War,
Our civilization lies in ruin.
Government does not exist.
Technology has been erased.
And everything man remembers is gone.
Out of the chaos, a lawless army will arise to prey on the few survivors.

(04:08):
Fire!
but to a people who have lost their hope.
You are a dangerous man.
I can see it in your eyes.
He will give them courage.
I have a feeling about you.
He will restore their memories of the past.

(04:29):
It's the individual that counts.
These people don't need dreams.
They need help.
Are you gonna bring them that?
I want him found.
I want him dumped with.
He will unite them.
You have a gift, postman.
with a message of freedom.
I challenge the leadership of the clan.
You want a war?

(04:49):
I'll give you a war!
Kevin Costner, Academy Award -winning director of Dances with Wolves, brings you an epicnew vision of our future.
There's gonna be new laws!
There's gonna be peace!

(05:12):
It's incredible to me that after all of the negativity thrown his way over Waterworld,that Kevin Costner would have the sheer bravado to say the hell with it and do another
very expensive post -apocalyptic film so quickly.
I think that he might've had tin cup in between the two, but like this came out two and ahalf years after Waterworld and honestly, I think it's amazing and...

(05:41):
Good for him for saying, damn it, I'm going to do what I want to do.
He also took your note because this one clocks in about three hours.
So Waterworld could only be the two fifteen for those of you who did not listen.
Waterworld we kind of liked like I like I enjoy it.
It's fun movie.
We thought it should either be longer or shorter.

(06:03):
And and this is definitely the longer category.
And I guess I.
I need to bring up something at the top of this thing.
Sure, sure.
Absolutely.
We got to talk about the Razzies.
Yeah, the Razzies.
I have feelings about the Razzies that I have feeling that we have some similar feelings.
But go ahead.
You told you what?

(06:24):
What about the Razzies?
Yeah.
And I'm breaking some Buddhist vows here, but fuck the Razzies.
yeah.
That is my feeling to fuck the Razzies.
That's what bullshit, you know?
Yeah.
It's and because I want to bring up a little fact, you probably had it your notes, but I'mstealing it, Chris.
This this film, which topped a lot of raziness, right?

(06:47):
And it did is officially this is officially a film branded as laugh at it.
It's terrible.
You're a moron if you find anything enjoyable about this film.
That is the official branding at this point.
Yes.
It was written, the screenplay, at least written by two Oscar
winning screenwriters.

(07:07):
As a matter of fact, one of them won his Oscar and the Razzie in the same weekend becausehe won the Oscar for LA Confidential the same weekend he got the Razzie for the Postman.
Ryan Helgeland.
it's anyway, this is just I am, you know, there are so many layers for me emotionally withthis movie, right?

(07:28):
And I again, am not going to sit here and say that it's secretly Citizen Kane.
But I do think that this movie, I find totally fascinating.
Yeah.
When you have this high level of craft behind it and this amount of money behind it, andthey're trying to do something even in the genre of post -apocalyptic post -Mad Max

(07:52):
movies, this is trying to do something extremely different.
Yes.
This is not, I guarantee if you've never seen The Postman and you watch it, win, lose ordraw as far as like how you feel about it.
you will have never seen a movie quite like this.
And that sometimes when people try something that's totally brand new, doesn't, everypiece doesn't always necessarily click in, right?

(08:15):
When you're actually really trying to stretch the art in the form.
And then people like the Razzie organization who sensibly are trying to have fun, but thenthey just like, I'm like, you should be celebrating artists trying to stretch and do
something different.
even if it doesn't always work.
100%.

(08:35):
That's my feeling.
Absolutely 100%.
If you're gonna make fun of movies that are somehow made in bad faith, that are really,that are taking the audience and their sensibilities for granted, I think there's
something to be said for that.
But here's a movie that is genuinely trying to do something interesting and say somethinginteresting.
I'm not sure that it 100 % works, if it is a failure, and I'm not sure that it is,

(09:02):
if it were to be categorized as such, it's the best kind of failure.
It's the kind of failure that's really trying to make something interesting and different.
And even if it doesn't 100 % succeed, and like I said, I don't necessarily think that'strue.
This film, I think this film does succeed ultimately, but it's a process along the way.

(09:24):
that's the thing.
Yeah, I think we should be celebrated because if everything was the same,
God, what a boring world and what a boring cinematic world it would be.
it's the difference.
And I'll harp on two separate things.
This whole move, this whole, this whole show.
Number one, there's a difference between a, I'm going to concede that a bad film exists,right?

(09:46):
Bad films exist, but there is a difference between a bad film and a film that doesn'talways work.
Number two, I think
And I look, I'm again, I'm not saying this is the greatest film ever made secretly andeveryone's dumb, although maybe, but I do think that in the U S if you look at this thing

(10:07):
is coming out in the late nineties and you look at what the culture was here to have amovie that has its heart on its sleeve about democracy and coming together as a nation and
not dividing us.
That plays a hell of a lot differently in 2024 than it did in 1998.

(10:31):
97.
And I have to tell you, there are parts of this movie, Chris, where I got fucking mistyeyed.
I know it was at the same scenes that critics back then would have lambasted because itwas such a different world.
Absolutely 100%.
A little background about the movie.

(10:52):
The Postman was based on a 1985 novel by celebrated sci -fi author David Britt.
The screenplay was written by Eric Roth and Brian Helgeland, and it was directed byCostner himself, his second directorial effort after 1990s Academy Award winning Dances
with Wolves.
Now here's something interesting, and it's one of the reasons I think it was actually veryappropriate to end our post -apocalyptic run on this film, is that David Britt,

(11:21):
wrote the novel, The Postman, as a response to the wave of dystopian films of the 70s and80s.
He actually felt there was too much focus, especially Postman Max, given to the mayhemfound in a world without rules and not enough attention paid to what would be lost in such

(11:43):
a world.
And I'm gonna quote from David Brin here.
I have a quote from him talking about his book.
The Postman was written as an answer to all those post -apocalyptic books and films thatseem to revel in the idea of civilization's fall.
It's a story about how much we take for granted and how desperately we would miss thelittle gracious things that connect us today.

(12:08):
And then later he also said about it, the fundamental message of the book and the movie iswe are all in this together.
And I think that's absolutely true.
And it's what, I think you're right.
This is one of the things that made this movie a target of derision in 1997 and it hitsvery differently in 2024.
Yeah.
I mean, this movie has its heart on its sleeve and what you were just talking about DavidBren and what he wanted to do that the story of the postman at least is it's not just

(12:35):
about what, what has been lost.
It's about finding it again.
Yes.
Like this is, is this maybe the, the, this might be the only one frankly in this.
whole series of post -apocalyptic films, including Waterworld, quite frankly, because theend is a little different.
This is the only one that's it's it's hopeful.

(12:56):
Yeah, this is a movie.
Maybe Steel Dawn is hopeful and they feel like, you know, maybe they're rebuilding things.
But this one really feels like it's hopeful and it feels like hope is central to thismovie in a way that it might come.
There might be a twinge of hope at the end of some of these others.
You know, even Mad Max, even the Road Warriors, a twinge of hope.

(13:18):
This it's central.
Yeah.
I mean, this is the only one that I think even in some of the others where people might beattempting to rebuild.
This movie thinks that people are fundamentally good and that that will win out in theend.
Anyway, it's fair.
And from that alone, it's super interesting because you don't even realize that I thinkevery movie we've watched up till now pretty much thinks people are despicable.

(13:47):
deep down and that when the going gets tough, everyone becomes awful.
This one, some people are awful in this world, but more are good.
anyway, yeah.
Yeah, no, no, I think that's absolutely true.
And it's interesting because the film had a kind of interesting journey to the screen.

(14:08):
The rights to the novel were bought pretty quickly actually when it was published byproducer Steve Tisch.
and Eric Roth was hired to write the screenplay.
Now, according to Brynn, Roth basically threw out the novel and started from scratch.
And Roth's script, which I'd love to read, resulted in basically reversing every moralpoint of Brynn's book.

(14:32):
And from that point forward, yeah, from that point forward, it went into development hell.
There were people like Ron Howard, Tom Hanks.
Richard Dreyfuss showed interest in it, but ultimately stepped away.
And then eventually Costner came on board and brought in Brian Helgeland to write a scriptmore in line with the novel.
And while the movie isn't totally faithful to the book, Bryn felt that Helgeland andCostner rescued the soul of the central character, who is a liar who slowly comes to

(15:00):
realize his own value.
It's also worth mentioning that the movie...
largely adapts the novel's first third and there's later parts of the book dealing withlike sentient artificial intelligence and all kinds of other more sci -fi concepts that
were not, that didn't make its way to the movie.
which I mean, in this sound, it will never happen, but I, I w I've wanted to read the booksince I watched the movie for this, I'd never seen it before.

(15:28):
And now you're, saying things that make me think they need to re make this including
With the AIS limited series, a limited series where you have more space for it, I thinkwould be the way to go.
Because honestly, I think people making it now in the States, it like all of the stuffthat seemed corny and hokey back then would be treated so differently now.

(15:53):
Yeah, I absolutely, absolutely agree.
The film stars Kevin Costner, Will Patton, Lorenz Tate, Olivia Williams and Tom Petty.
as himself, which is amazing.
We'll get to that.
It's great.
And I want to say from at the outset, while I saw Waterworld in theaters back in the 90s,I had never seen the post and before this week.

(16:17):
And I really think, you know, I mean, it's it's it is not as exciting a movie asWaterworld.
It doesn't have sort of the stunts and daring to.
It's not trying to be.
It's not trying to be.
But I think it also has something more significant to say.
than Waterworld does.
It turns out that when you don't treat violence as a bread and circus spectacle that youcan do some other things potentially.

(16:43):
Yes.
And look, and again, that's, know, I enjoy plenty of bread and circus spectacle in my day.
It's got its, you know, it's, you know, look, I love the fall guy.
I, you know, there's a place, there can be a place for everything, but this is not.
you mean the movie.
thought you the TV series.
was a big fan back in the day.

(17:05):
I also was a big fan.
I had the little the the the Hot Wheel.
The Unknown Stuntman.
That's awesome.
The Unknown Stuntman, the second greatest title theme of all time.
second grade.
What's your first?
it's the greatest American hero.
My God, it's just the best, the best.

(17:26):
Yeah.
So when this movie came out in December of 1997, it didn't do well at the box office, itdidn't do well with critics, it was kind of just rejected on all fronts.
And to me, it's more the pity because I really like this movie.
It's a movie that answers the question that every cinephile has asked at one point oranother.

(17:52):
What if Frank Capra directed a mad Max film?
The Postman.
Is the answer.
Absolutely.
I, I had thought of it and it's funny from what you'd said, because it sounds like EricRoth was not the one who took it in this direction, but this feels like it's a post
-apocalyptic forest gump or a post -apocalyptic being there.

(18:13):
Yeah.
in a certain kind of way.
Yeah.
yeah.
Yeah.
Which fits in with Frank Capra's, it's a, it's a wonderful road warrior.
We open in the year 2013 with a lone drifter walking through the salt flats of Utah, whatwas once the Great Salt Lake, and we hear snippets of radio broadcasts, a technique that

(18:40):
was used in Battle Truck and would later be employed by George Miller in both Fury Roadand Furiosa.
The fall of civilization seems to have been brought about by a combination of war,possibly nuclear, environmental destruction, and play.
There's talk about the three year winters and dirty snow that never stops falling.
But it appears by 2013 that the worst of it seems to be over.

(19:02):
And most of this film takes place in what appears to be an absolutely beautiful PacificNorthwest.
Rob, I don't know if you've ever been to Disneyland, Disneyland's California AdventurePark.
I have.
But this movie gives me the same vibe as the Grizzly Peak section.
of the park, you know, where the, like that's what I felt like, you know, that's how itgot that vibe.

(19:24):
I really like that aesthetic.
And, you know, so we get a little narration from a woman who is talking about her father,who is clearly Kevin Costner's character.
I actually didn't think he needed it, but I suppose it ties in with the end of the film,but I didn't think it was that necessary.
We already know what's going on here.
And aside from that, you know, we have Kevin Costner's character roaming around with hismule Bill talking to it.

(19:48):
And he, you
He's a scavenger.
He's, he's, you know, he's living off of what he can find.
I love this whole early section of the movie with him and Bill the mule.
mean, listen, if I were in this situation, I'd be having full conversations with my mule.
It's his friend and I could connect with that immediately.

(20:08):
Yes.
And you get,
Unsurprisingly, visually with Costner as the director, get a lot of the wide open spaces.
So even though this thing may not be super action oriented, is often being filmed on thatepic scale.
Right.
Absolutely.
and yeah, and this is kind of a, you know, well predating, saving the cat, but, you know,being buddies with the mule.

(20:35):
which will contrast with, general Bethlehem later.
know where we'll get there.
it is very sad and cruel.
but in any event it's, it's fun because also compared to the Mariner specifically, thepostman is, you know, he's funnier and they make reference to that at several points.

(21:01):
although
often at points when I find he is not as funny as when they aren't referencing it onscreen.
But like he's charming and funny and you actually, and he's a little bit out of it, butnot, he's not like crazy, he's guy who's been wandering the wasteland for a decade or you
know, like it's, it's, mean, honestly, sometimes my wife travels for work and I'm at homefor a week by myself.

(21:24):
And by the time she comes back, I'm already, I'm like, you know, I'm talking to thefurniture.
Who knows?
You know, I mean, this guy's been out there for 10 years.
You know, I don't blame him at all.
Like I could see that that would be me.
I'd be talking to my mule, you know, and pretending to watch television.
Like he finds this gas station, like he goes to this gas station and it's, finds like, youknow, this non -working television and old TV guide.

(21:49):
And he immediately starts like launching into memories of what he remembers watching.
And I just, I found it incredibly tough.
Like I,
I don't know if I've ever liked Kevin Costner as an actor more than in those early scenesof the postman.
He is so open and vulnerable.
And it really gets to the heart of what this movie is about, which is, know, early onmourning what has been lost in this post -apocalyptic world.

(22:16):
All the things we take for granted that are gone.
And that's not always the center in these kinds of movies, but it's front and center inthe postman.
Yeah.
And he hear much like we hear the radio at the beginning, announcing the end of the world,essentially in various fashions when he is on that couch.
Yeah.

(22:36):
He's hearing audio from the stuff that he's looking up in TV guide and he's gettingexcited about it.
And I want to say that, you know, and this is a lot of it for the most part is cost of hisperformance.
This is not excitement about material pleasures.
No.
This is very clearly, it is excitement about remembering how civilization was before,right?

(23:02):
It's about coming together.
has that feel.
It's not, gee, where's my whiskey?
absolutely.
To make a comparison, I remember in the early to mid part of 2020, in those first monthsof the pandemic,
And I just sometimes I'd be at home and I'd be thinking about all the things that seem tohave changed overnight and something as simple as going to the mall or going to the movies

(23:30):
or whatever.
And that was just gone.
And it was like, you know, you'd wonder if it would ever go back.
And to some degree it has, but it's changed.
It's different now.
2019 feels like it's a decade in the past.
Like it feels like it's ages.
And Costner's got a line later in the film, which it just is like, these were supposed tobe the best years of my life.

(23:51):
when he's captured later and he's just like, and there's some degree of just like, we hadit, we had it all.
And then, you know, it gets taken away and you realize what you had.
And I kept thinking of that in watching this movie and how it, again, this is all stuffthat wouldn't hit that way in 1997, but in 2024, it sure as hell does.

(24:12):
Yeah, I mean, I can see why it played corny to people back then.
Also, I mean, frankly,
every other hero or anti -hero in this genre, they are all pretty much resigned to thefact that life sucks and then you're going to die and they're eking out their existence
the best they can.
Now they may not be always killers unless it's an Italian film, but in general they havegiven up, you know, to some degree, the only they haven't given up on life, but they've

(24:40):
given up on ever on restoration.
Yeah.
And this movie from the get -go is presenting.
that as something that is still thought about specifically by our hero, no matter how, youknow, we might see him run from battles or things in the beginning.
Cause he is not again, and this is something I like about it.

(25:00):
And that's different from the Mariner is the postman is not an action hero.
He's not secretly a bad -ass.
He's not X special forces.
This is a dude.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he's thrust into these circumstances.
And what, what winds up happening over the course of the film is,
You know, while his, his means are not always, on the up and up, essentially his goodheart wins out.

(25:24):
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
so we, we, we, we follow Kostner for a bit as he, as he moves, goes from town to town, he,performs Shakespeare in exchange for food and shelter.
I love the mule with the mule, with the mule is his co -star.
love it.
There's there's Rob, there's a little moment, in this before he goes into the town to doShakespeare is a little moment.

(25:46):
where he brushes the mule's teeth before they go into town.
it's like, honestly, it really affected me because I'm just like this, it's this greatlittle moment with this lonely man.
And it just, I don't know why, it just affected me really strongly.
was just like, you he's like, gotta, I know I haven't done this in a while, but we gottamake it presentable.
you know, they do the whole sequence with the one man Shakespeare.

(26:08):
Well, one man and one mule Shakespeare show.
He duels with the mule, the mule plays the role of Burnham Wood coming to Dunsinane, whichI just love.
But unfortunately, a militia led by General Bethlehem arrives and takes over the town.
They demand food and supplies and new recruits and Costner's character is soon captured bythem.

(26:29):
General Bethlehem and his militia follow the teachings of a survivalist named Nathan Hold,and they are known as the Holenists, which frankly, Rob, is a name I find very difficult
to say.
the wholeness.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, that's, that's a word to be read in a book in your mind.
It's your seat, recognizing it.

(26:50):
And, yeah.
Well, it's interesting.
I think they may have had a bigger role, like a more significant role about the history ofthe wholeness in the novel here.
Like they're just kind of the generic military militia bad guys in the novel.
There's like, I think there's more of, of kind of like what their philosophy was.
Yeah.
I mean, and
This is actually one of the parts that I can say I quite like about the movie, which isthat, which bucking the trend of most post -apocalyptic films here, it really is.

(27:21):
You get drips and drabs of the history, right?
That led us to here, like enough to make it interesting and to understand what's going on,but they really don't dwell.
And most of it comes out fairly organically as it would in life, right?
Where no one is going to sit here.
You know, oftentimes these are post -apocalyptic movies.

(27:42):
It feels like you have a situation where Chris and I would be having lunch as Americansin, in 2024 and then suddenly be launching into, you know, back when our country was an
English colony and they got fed up with the taxation without representation and theykicked the king to the curb and created the country then.

(28:02):
people have conversations like that about stuff from a hundred years ago or even 10 yearsago.
This movie doesn't.
do it, is refreshing.
Yeah.
And I mean, there's little bits like there's the moment when he goes to the town and latersomeone asks, you know, is Nathan Holm dead?
And with an air of significance to the question, implying that this guy had some part toplay in the things that have happened.

(28:25):
Absolutely.
You know, in some ways the militia reminded me a little bit of the militia from battletruck, except they didn't have a battle truck.
Yes, there was no battle truck.
It's mostly horse.
related, but what makes sense because what you point out so many times is that like thosecars wouldn't be viable.
Like the oil, like gasoline goes bad.

(28:48):
Like it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be working a thousand.
It's not like a star bears the year 3000.
No, and they, and I want to talk just for one second now that we're at a general Bethlehemcause we'll patent plays.
He's great.
And yeah, I mean he, and you know,
long -term, he and Kevin Costner have worked on multiple projects, including Horizon he'sin as well.

(29:14):
most recent one, but Will Patton does such a great job in this movie because you're thevillain, you know?
And so you want it to be fun and villainous in a movie like this, especially a movie,because this is a very black and white film as far as its ethics and morality go, you
know?
Yes.
So the villain is going to be villainous, although they do reveal things about him thatare interesting and add layers, but the villains of villain.

(29:40):
This is Darth Vader.
It's not Anakin Skywalker.
Sure.
But in all of that, it, there is such a great balance of chewing that scene every time.
And yet it is also still grounded.
It's yes.
I like it.
It really is great.
Not, you know, I, don't often see it because normally if people are going grounded, theymake it.

(30:02):
also not fun.
Right.
Right.
This is fun as hell.
Like I love him in every scene he's in.
Yeah.
No, he's terrific.
He's absolutely terrific.
his, his army, the whole state, they follow something called the eight laws.
the, the, the figure eight is branded onto all the, all the people that's like their,their symbol.

(30:25):
you know, it's things, you know, like there's no mercy, there's no deserting.
they're kind of there.
There we learn.
We learned that they're racist right off the bat and they have some very, very distinctlyshitty ideas about masculinity and men's rights.
Sort of like it's, it kind of prefigures the whole Jordan Peterson men's rights kind ofbowl.

(30:48):
It's basically the incel army.
just, that's what they are.
They're the incel arm.
Yeah.
Because this thing is as much as people talk about, George RR Martin basing a game ofThrones on like war of the roses and certain things in history.
I mean, this movie really is using the post -apocalypse to examine human history in a waywhere all of this stuff is classic 20th century fascism and authoritarianism where you

(31:14):
have the it's white supremacy.
It is misogyny.
I guess those are the two biggies.
Yeah.
that's, you know, they're there and book burning, even though, even though the generalhimself can quote Shakespeare and is a
quote unquote learned man for the times at least.
Right.
He burns the books.

(31:34):
Right.
He doesn't want the masses to have them.
Right.
Right.
Absolutely.
So Costner and others are taken back to the headquarters of the wholeness where they'reconscripted into service.
we get a couple other characters at this point of the movie, including Giovanni Robisi,who seems to be doing a prototype of his character from the other sister.
and there's all this kinds of macho bullshit, like the last, the last guy in the chow linedoesn't get to eat.

(31:59):
you know, that kind of thing, you know, they, they kill, they kill a dude for, for stupid,you know, like for not sitting down fast enough.
Yeah.
Cause they, didn't have all the chairs out.
So he was supposed to sit on the ground, but didn't.
that's a offense.
Yeah.
Cause it's all just, it's the show of power.
You know, they, they, they're making an excuse.

(32:21):
And I love Robici in this and the character because essentially it is what a great little.
character study and it's only for a short time in the film.
Yeah.
But he is the weak picked upon runt of the litter who it's clear the, you know, thegeneral's men have it in for this guy and they're going to make an example of him.

(32:43):
and so what does that guy do?
He goes full in on the whole philosophy.
You think he's going to be like Costner's ally, but he goes full in on that wholephilosophy and betrays him.
And you know, he's, he's, turns into a shit heel himself as bullies.
as people who are bullied often become bullies themselves.
Yeah.
And it's such a nice, I don't know.

(33:04):
It's such a nice touch in this movie.
And also along with that and down the road, you know, the general's talking about hissystem of government as being feudal or whatever.
It just, there are a lot of things in this story where you look at them and go, you know,the writers, you know, probably, you know, Brynn in the source book and then also the

(33:25):
screenwriters there.
They're very cognizant about how these things happen in real life.
Yeah.
Even though it's a fantastic, you know, set up that said the wholeness, they do showmovies from this little floating house in the middle of the manmade lake.
and, all the, all the soldiers, you know, that's like, do they want to watch universalsoldier?

(33:47):
What do they, they don't want to watch universal soldier.
What do they want to watch?
Rob?
Yeah, I personally, this is
This is the biggest problem with this movie.
Everyone would want to see Dolph Lundgren and John Claude Van Damme and Universal Soldierclearly, but no, they, they throw rocks at the projection booth that's floating in the
lake of the quarry until the sound of music comes back on.

(34:11):
Yeah.
sound of music, which again, if you want to put the B back and settle for the filmreference that you're throwing in here,
Yeah, I it's it's it is no coincidence that the sound of music is the movie that issecretly connecting to the hearts of all of the people, including the army members.

(34:31):
Yeah, not just the prisoners.
The the homeless, they they they turn costars mule bill into soup.
At one point, they cook them and turn them into soup.
And I got to say that they let them know.
By serving him.
Yeah.
While serving him.
It's like, they tell him, yeah, this is, you know, they show that this is, and it's like,in a couple of days and yeah, he gives the soup to, he gives the soup to Giovanni, Rebici

(34:57):
before Giovanni Rebici turns into a shithead.
But like it, it, it broke my heart a little bit.
Like I was just like, that, the mule.
Like it's, it's just, I don't know.
I don't know.
Costner and his mule really.
really kind of connected to me.
Kosser's character has a couple interesting exchanges with Bethlehem.
What do you think that I did before the war?

(35:18):
Do you think that I was in the army?
I sold copying machines.
I was a sailor.
The talent to lead men and devise and execute a battle plan locked away inside of me.
If Nathan Holt hadn't come along, I'd still be selling copying machines.
Can you imagine?

(35:39):
A wasted life.
Can you imagine the magnitude of that?
But war.
War gives men like me a chance.
He's the type of guy who was ordinary in the world that was and has taken advantage of thechaos to become a powerful man.
And I just, thought that was super interesting.

(36:00):
yeah.
I felt connections to both, not steal dawn, steal justice.
Steal frontier.
Steel Frontier.
Yes.
my God, I'm stealing my mind.
Steel Frontier to the number two bad guy in that one talking about it four times.
But I also, in this one, it plays out even a little bit more.
It's almost a little triangle of sadness.

(36:20):
And I won't explain that further for those that haven't seen it since it's a more recentfilm.
But the idea of a character taking advantage of the chaos to elevate themselves to a newstation in life, shall we say, and not wanting to go back.
Interesting.
Costars character has a dream of going to a place called st.
Rose on the coast Which at this point we're not even sure if that's real or not like hetalks about it's like there's this place st.

(36:47):
Rose It's a town and everything's great.
Well, cuz there's no there is no narrator more unreliable than the person I mean you Youguys about it so much the definition of an unreliable there.
Yeah, absolutely I want to point out there's an amazing
bit of filmmaking in this movie where the transitions that the characters are watching onthey have this big screen set up by this man -made lake and the characters are watching a

(37:15):
John Wayne movie called she wore a yellow ribbon where this soldier on horseback ridesacross the stream and it it dissolves into a soldier riding across the screen in the quote
real world and it's just this beautifully beautifully done transition and I wanted topoint out because it's just so it's so extraordinary
So eventually Costner's character takes advantage of a situation that develops and he'sable to make his escape.

(37:40):
has to kill Giovanni Rubisi's character along the way.
And he, he, it's a, it's a great sequence.
It's one of the more exciting action sequences.
He's running across this bridge and he knows that there's like a weak point, like a weakplank in the bridge and he steps in it, falls through, and then is able to escape down the
rushing river.
And it's more complicated than that, but it's, really a great sequence, his escape.

(38:04):
And eventually he finds himself, he finds it, he seeks shelter in an abandoned US mailtruck that he comes along, he finds, and he takes the dead postman's uniform to keep warm.
He starts reading the mail, which is long overdue in order to pass the time.
There's some great, there's great moments where he's in this mail truck, it's rainingoutside.

(38:26):
He's just, he's, he's able to get a light and, and, and read.
And it's, it's really interesting.
Like at this point, like,
He's just finding that mail truck about 40 minutes into the movie.
and it occurred to me that was like, this, this movie today would be done as like alimited series.
And that would be the end of episode one would be, would be finding the totally totally.

(38:47):
And it's, you know, up till now I would wager that most people watching this would, youknow, would, find the movie at least.
I don't think that there's anything that people would find totally untoward in the movie.
Right.
think the stuff that people start to have a problem with is in the second, you know, onceyou hit act two into three, because this is the part of the movie where all of a sudden

(39:13):
you aren't just in a poke pop post apocalyptic world where you're seeing how bad thingsare.
You start getting into the can things be better and people and people having their heartson their sleeves about stuff and explicitly so, right.
And in a non -ironic way, which is definitely not the nineties.
So this first hour ish, you know, up, you know, up to finding the postman costume and thenhim, him taking off with it, I think feels much more akin to the best of the genre that's

(39:43):
come before.
Like you wouldn't find it totally out of pocket, right?
Right.
The second that, but these next two hours are quite different and yeah.
that's where we're going to be getting into.
So he comes to this gated town and then I say gated, have like,
They've built walls around the town and have a big gate.
It's Pine View, Oregon.
And he comes up to the gate.

(40:04):
He asks to come in and they threaten to shoot him if he doesn't go away.
But he claims, and this is just all made up in the moment, he claims that he's a postmanworking for the restored United States of America.
And you have this great scene where he's pulling like letters out of the bag and readingthe names on the letters.

(40:25):
Do you have a so and so here?
You have a so -and -so here and trying to convince them that he's telling the truth.
Paul Davis, 124 Fineview.
Never heard of him, two.
Lily May Reno, 16 Lincoln Road.
Three.

(40:45):
Irene March, 478 River Road.
Did you read it?
I'm sure it's personal.
Please, someone has to.
I'll get my...

(41:06):
We're delivering old stockpiles, but I'll accept all new correspondence.
It's a really terrific scene.
Rob, did you notice Peggy Lipton as Irene March's daughter?
Of course.
Norma Jennings from shooting in the Pacific Northwest in the 90s.
gotta have some Peggy Lipton.

(41:26):
Absolutely.
So the postman's led into the town where he's fed and given shelter, and he spins thiswhole yarn about the restored United States.
He tells them there's a new president by the name of Richard Starkey and his motto is,yeah, stuff's getting better.
Stuff's getting better every day.
Yeah.
Perfect tie back to our, get me another, a hard day's night series from this past spring.

(41:50):
Yes.
And the, you know, what I find interesting about this sequence here, right?
is that he's lying to get in cause he's hungry.
Right.
He then connects with a bit of truth with that truth with Irene and that you get theletter reading.
And this is super important because you see there's nothing in the letter that'snecessarily super, you know, heart, strong heart, string tugging.

(42:16):
It's just the idea.
Like you can see on these people and God bless all the actors in this were like even theextras in the behind, the idea that they aren't just cut off from a world.
and that there might be other people out there and they might be a, be part of a largercommunity.
You can see that spark here, but then the movie undercuts it, I think in a good way bythen going into the postman's charlatan act again, with everything you're just talking

(42:45):
about where he, they're asking him all these questions because they've, the, the sparksalready started and he has to lie to keep it going because he wants a bowl of food.
Right.
Like he's not, he's not, he's not.
con man where he's got some elaborate scheme.
He just, well, there's a restored United States.
Well, who's the president?

(43:06):
you know, like, you know, and all these things that, you know, he just ends up talkingmore in order to kind of keep things going.
The town takes the postman into their heart and there's a big dance.
The Postman meets a young man named Ford Lincoln Mercury, played by Lorenz Tate, who gavehimself that name because he wanted to drive cars.

(43:32):
That was one of the few things that I honestly felt like didn't feel, it didn't work forme.
Like it felt like it was out of a post -apocalyptic story from the distant future, not inthis sort of grounded 15 years after things went to shit.
it's like, that's something out of, out of like, you know, Steel Dawn where it's like, Ifound this.
this sign for a Ford Lincoln Mercury dealership.

(43:54):
And I decided to take that name.
Like, I don't feel like that would happen in the 15 years later.
Like it's not, which a character who otherwise is really interesting.
Cause he, he absolutely believes in this.
He's terrific.
is great in this movie.
Yeah, he absolutely is.
he, you know, again, my only issue is with that, that name and they're trying to do athing that I don't think really works, but he, he absolutely believes the postman story

(44:18):
and wants to become a postal employee himself.
And the postman eventually like swears him in.
does it like a swearing in service.
Cause he's just, he's like, well, I don't want to, you know, he's, trying to keep the liegoing.
And he's also, he doesn't want to disappoint this kid who's so enthusiastic.
this, is not the last time that Tate will serve in public office either because he iscouncilman Tate in, in the power, television series, which I have not had a chance to

(44:46):
watch, but I've heard is really, really, really good.
You know, it's funny, this part of the film, it reminded me of a movie I saw years agothat I haven't had a chance to revisit.
That's Frank Darabont's The Majestic.
okay.
It's another movie where you have a guy who's not who he claims to be taken in by a smalltown, and it's another movie that could be described as Capra -esque.

(45:14):
And like this movie, it wasn't a big commercial or critical success.
And I wonder if both were judged harshly because of their earnestness, which didn't quitefit with the times of the 90s and early aughts.
But there's something about it that reminded me of the Majestic.
It's a movie I've got to go back and rewatch because I don't think I've seen it in 15years or so, however many.

(45:37):
And I never saw it.
So I'll be interested to check it out.
The postman is approached by a woman named Abby, played by Olivia Williams, who asks himat the town dance,
If he's ever had the bad mumps.
Yeah.
Turns out she, she wants Costner to father her child.
Rob, this is the second post -apocalyptic movie in a row where a woman wants KevinCostner's good sperm.

(46:01):
They want him as the body father in this one.
It'll be the other, the other man's son, but he'll be the body father.
And so it is around here where the movie does.
in its quest to do some different things.
There are some, especially for a big budget Hollywood film, there are some unusualchoices.

(46:24):
There's some weird stuff.
There's some weird stuff.
Let's just say there's some weird stuff.
Some of it I find it's weird, but it does work.
Some of it I may not a hundred percent work for me, but this is, and I just want to callit out here because it's with this, the stuff from here on a lot of this is I'm sure where
the Razzie clips

(46:44):
would have been taken from.
Yeah.
You, you, you draw the stuff out of context.
I just, I want to call it out.
And it's so weird because I never in a million years, Chris would have thought that Iwould have found myself somewhat in a position of postman apologist, but I didn't, mean, I
didn't go.
world's strange place.
It truly is.

(47:05):
It truly is.
anyway, I, yeah, I don't know up, up is down.
Left is right.
What's going on.
Absolutely.
So she comes to Kastner, she seduces him, she really wants his sperm.
They have a sex scene in the post office, which is odd, because she's naked, but he'sfully clothed, which is, and it goes on a while.

(47:30):
Like there was one point where I thought it was going to stop, and then it was like, no,wait, we're still going.
It's a, yeah, yeah.
Where it keeps going and you can, it does seem as if, you know, there's more than just abody father connection here of some sort.
There's at least some attraction, but also it's like, but she also is just, you know,needs to heat him up so that he can perform.

(47:54):
she's gone the next morning, but she left candles burning.
That's never a good idea.
Always blow out the candles before you leave.
the, you know, the dude's asleep, especially in a room full of paper.
Just saying, just throwing that out there as a safety tip.
the postman, he's given a horse by the town and he, he leaves taking mail with them.
They all start to give him mail to take, you know, to, can you get this through to mycousin?

(48:18):
You get this through so -and -so.
And the sheriff wants his ass out of town.
Cause the sheriff is like, I love you are a charlatan.
The the sheriff is suspicious of him from the get -go, but then you have this moment.
I'll admit Rob.
I started to wonder, I was like, is it leaning too hard into the sentiment as he'sleaving?
And the townspeople start singing America the Beautiful as he's leaving.

(48:40):
But then you go back to the sheriff who's been, again, he's been suspicious of Costner thewhole time and he asks him if he really is who he says he is.
And Costner replies, and I love this, if I come back with some mail, you'll know.
And there's this moment where the sheriff suddenly says, damn it.
He rides out.

(49:01):
It's like, there's this bridge.
He rides out, gives a letter of his own before he leaves.
And it actually really like, it was like, I wasn't sure if they were leaning too hard inthe sentiment.
And then it just really got me.
No.
And you know, this is one where at a cursory look, this seems to some people I'm sure likesyrupy optimism or too, too heartfelt or phony or whatever.

(49:26):
Right.
But I actually,
The moment with the sheriff really made it not that for me because you often find, I thinkin both people's day to day philosophies, but also in stories where when people are
covering their ass, it's always a guarding against a bad thing is more often, you know,people are, that's human nature.

(49:50):
are more, we are trained to the negative more than the positive.
Yeah.
Right.
What I loved about this,
is that it was, shit, optimism.
It was kind of like, yeah, fuck.
If it's true, don't want to miss out on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.

(50:10):
And that seems so real to me.
Yeah.
It seems so human.
This is a guy.
And when he hands him that letter, he still really doesn't believe, but what if it's true?
can't, you can't not give them the letter.
Absolutely.
And this might be my favorite moment in the whole movie.
I love it.
I absolutely love it.

(50:31):
Yeah, no, 100 percent.
As soon as the postman leaves, the wholeness show up and take over the town.
They demand to know who opened the post office, who raised the American flag.
They force Abby's husband to burn the American flag, and then eventually they murder himand General Bethlehem abducts Abby.
Now, there's two things here.
One, I find it interesting that the wholeness didn't appropriate.

(50:54):
the American flag as their own symbol, because that is often what happens whenauthoritarians take over.
we're going to make this ours and you can't have it.
We're going to make your patriotic symbols ours and ours alone.
So I find it interesting that they didn't do that in this case.
And the second thing is that with her husband dead, Abby's now single when she reuniteswith the postman down the road whose baby she is carrying.

(51:22):
So, you know.
You know, the husband was an inconvenience.
We needed to get him out of the way for story purposes.
Yeah, for sure.
And General Bethlehem has a whole speech here about the feudal system and, you know, takebeing able to take brides and just sleep with whoever he And he's trying to make Abby's
husband give him permission to just take her and sleep with her.

(51:45):
And he won't, which is why he kills him.
This stuff is all, you know, you know, but it's it is it's pretty gnarly.
and affecting, it is also, it's got a real remove to it as well.
Cause they're not, they've set it up though.
So that when you leave this section, you believe that general Bethlehem is just takingAbby to go, you know, brutally sexually assault her.

(52:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
They do set you up for that.
and when we come back to Kevin Costner, he's, he's going to another town.
led by Colonel Sanders from Spaceballs, I want to point out.
And the homeless show up, they're trying to capture the postman because now this thingthat people are talking about, there's a restored United States, this has become a threat.

(52:37):
I want to point out that this is the point in the movie where General Bethlehem does notrecognize Kevin Costner because he has shaved his beard.
It is wearing a hat.
Yes.
Kevin, his voice is not at all recognizable and does, you know, certainly doesn't sounddistinct from literally every other person in this movie.

(53:02):
Yeah, it's it again.
It's a touch of sillyness.
But again, they needed him to not recognize it.
So I get it.
I'm like, I love that.
There's things that I love in this, like when the general's questioning him.
U .S.
mail.
Restored United States in America.
Do these people really believe that shit?

(53:26):
Who are you, really?
I'm a United States postman, authorized by Order 417 of the Restored Congress.
I was at the Battle of Georgetown.
I watched the White House burn to the ground.
Do not try to sell me on any Restored United States.

(53:47):
The new capital is based in Minneapolis inside the Hubert Humphrey Metrodome.
You know where the Vikings used to play?
Where the Vikings used to play.
Like, I just really like that.
yeah.
I mean, the touch, the little touches in this scene are great, including when, you know,Bethlehem talks about like it's it's not quite a tears and rain speech moment.

(54:15):
It's not that long.
But there is like, I like, I forget the exact verbiage, but I saw the white house burn orwhatever it is.
Like he saw the destruction of the Capitol.
you know, so he saw Alex Garland's film, but what it is, I still have, I, you know, we'lltalk, we'll talk another time about that.

(54:35):
I'm sure.
I don't know how, I don't know when, anyway, but I thought it was a nice touch becauseit's one of those moments where, and with Patton, where you get,
You get, there's emotion behind it.
It's not just the statement isn't just, saw it get destroyed.
So I know you're full of shit.
There are other big feelings, even in general Bethlehem about having witnessed thatclearly, even though he is now, you know, moved on from it, emotionally, cause he, he'd a

(55:04):
big bad man.
that, so this is the point where, where the postman and Abby, they, they are able to makean escape.
Like she,
She she gets out of like she's tied up in like a tent or something is able to get out.
And she grabs a 16.
She starts.
She's mowing mowing dudes down.

(55:26):
yeah.
yeah.
Yeah.
She's plugging guys left and right.
would have written a song about this lady.
Had he been alive in 2013, the postman.
Let me tell you.
This is like some Miss Poblashenko shit.
Like it was awesome.
is, it is.
So they're able to escape the postman and Abby.
And again, they never give him a name.
So that's why I'm referring to as the postman.
That's, yeah, they're able to escape to this deserted cabin in the wilderness wherethey're basically snowed in for the winter.

(55:53):
And again, talking about now you would make this as a limited series for cable orstreaming or whatever.
because you could do a whole episode, which is just them in the cabin, which is kind ofwhat the movie does for like half an hour.
Like, but you would just do that as a, a, as a dedicated episode.
and it's interesting cause there's really interesting stuff with the two characters here,you know, and sort of the, the, the, the self contained section.

(56:21):
you know, this movie, it's, it's not afraid to deal with the realities of this story,which is that Abby,
Having now discovered that the postman isn't, she now knows it was all a lie.
Right.
He's not a postman cause she, and she sees the brand or whatever, think.
Right.
Yeah.
When she's carried for him when he is unconscious.

(56:43):
So she knows he lied.
and this is a guy who she made a body father, who then with his lies in part got herhusband killed because he inspired hope without helping to back it up.
So she is understandably, shall we say unhappy with the postman.
But they're stuck in this cabin for the, like essentially, cause like the pass is snowedover.

(57:08):
So they're stuck there for what seems to be months.
no.
Yeah.
I mean, he's grown his beard back.
Yeah.
Which you'll shave again.
He will, you know, I, a moment I thought, he's grown the beard back.
So when Bethlehem comes, he'll recognize it.
Nope.
They're going to.
So, which I guess that is a post -apocalyptic trend of like,
The facial hair continuity can get a little wonky sometimes, although it's not, it makessense in this.

(57:32):
It's all real, but you're like, does.
Yeah.
But the, the, the Abby's, know, this interesting section because Abby's the more proactivecharacter.
When they run out of food, she's the one that shoots the postman's horse, which makes itthe second animal companion in this movie that the character has to eat, which is insane.
That's some kind of record.

(57:52):
Yeah.
And,
So do not show these movies to Billy Fury.
No, it's to be a happy day.
also learn that General Bethlehem never raped Abby because he was unable to maintain anerection, which is just a fascinating plot twist of like, it really is the incel arm.

(58:14):
That whole bit again, that to me is one thing that may not work totally for me.
It feels a little convict.
Like if you're, you know, look, I feel like I've said this almost every other episode inthe post -apocalyptic trend, because the sexual violence against women is so prevalent in
this, you know, genre, sub genre.

(58:37):
But it does feel like, look, I certainly, serious subjects can get treated in film, but ifit's not really a point that you're actually addressing and it's just there to help deepen
a hero and his relationship with other people,
and then you start hand waving stuff.
It just doesn't work that well for me.
It's probably the thing that works the least well for me in this movie.

(58:59):
strange.
It's such a strange, the whole thing.
Yeah.
Like, like why, why bring it up as a threat if you're going to hand wave it?
Right.
Deal with that as part of the society or don't.
Right.
But this is just like, so anyway.
They, that she decides she wants to get out of there.
The pass is clear.
So she burnt, I love that she burns the cabin.

(59:20):
to basically make it so they have to leave.
And she, takes their stuff out first.
Cause the postman is lazy and cowardly and never wants to leave.
Right.
Good thing going here.
she's, she, she torches it and they're on their way.
And as they returned to the world from their period of isolation, the postman, Abbydiscovered that there are now more postmen on the roads delivering mail from one community

(59:47):
to another.
I mean, this is where I think of it.
Like now I think of it having been a mini series, like you would do it.
It's like, you have this episode with them.
The end of it, they would leave.
And at the very last scene of the episode, they find another postman and they're like,wait, what?
You know, like that would be the, the, the going into the next episode.
And, but inspired by the postman Ford has set up this regional postal service, and haseven taken to writing fake letters from president Starkey to inspire the group.

(01:00:17):
It's like, it's,
fascinating.
And from the postman himself as well.
postman himself who's here here in Minneapolis with president Starkey.
No, he's in a cabin with with Olivia Williams.
It's it was around this time where, know, you get these, you know, kind of like episodicsequences almost of living in this post -apocalyptic world and dealing with bad people who

(01:00:40):
want fascism post -apocalypse and those that are striving to create a new community.
It was around here.
where you came back to characters you'd seen, but time had passed and now things werecompletely different, right?
Yes.
Where I, the other thing that this reminded me of that this predates by quite a bit is TheWalking Dead.
And specifically more the television series than the comics, even though they, you know,oftentimes very faithful.

(01:01:05):
But to the point where it's, this really feels like it's all of that, all of the humandrama stuff of The Walking Dead.
is kind of what the postman does.
There's just no zombies.
No zombies.
cause you just, was just a war that incited stuff instead of a zombie apocalypse.
But, that's interesting.
That's interesting.
more recruits are brought into the postal service, including old George played by RonMcLarty, who I want to mention because kids today won't know Ron McLarty, but I remember

(01:01:36):
him from one of the best detective shows of the 1980s Spencer for hire.
where he played the Boston cop who occasionally worked with Spencer.
He's great here.
And this section, it's the great postal war of 2013.
There's a lot of cat and mouse with the wholeness and the postal service employees,they're not always paying them.

(01:02:03):
The postman on the roads trying to get mail through.
The postman makes more deliveries.
It's a very dramatic moment.
where the postman rides past this lonely house and the little boy goes out with a letterand he just misses the postman only to have him turn back around and ride and dramatically
take the letter out of his hand as he raises.

(01:02:25):
I mean, honestly, it's a, a, it's a great visual, but he could have just walked back andlet the kid hand it to him.
I mean, come on, know.
Wow.
And the other thing that I do love is that his postal sense tingled because he has, Imean,
He was well past him and then he stops and he's like, wait a minute.
I, I sense mail behind it.

(01:02:45):
But you know what?
It looks cool.
And it is, is.
And I mentioned it because it's important later.
You know, there's, there's, some very important towards the end later.
Yes.
I want to mention, I really like the use of music in this movie, not just the score byJames Newton Howard, who obviously had did water world, but there's, there's an
interesting thing because

(01:03:06):
This is a world where there's clearly no mass media.
There's no radio or anything like that.
But you have several scenes where they have bands, you know, the town band playing at likethe local dance or whatever.
But what's interesting is they're sort of playing folksy versions of popular hits.

(01:03:26):
Like there's one scene where the guys are playing come and get your love by red bone andlike sort of the folk version of it.
And I'm like, that's terrific.
Yeah.
Cause there is not, this is a world that doesn't just have electricity on demand all thetime.
Right.
Right.
They, they they may have some, makes sense.
Yeah.
You know, like if, the world were normal, they'd probably be playing it on electrical, youknow, electrified instruments and things.

(01:03:49):
but they can't, can't.
Yeah.
There might be some, there's some electricity generated, but it's minimal.
And you're not going to use it for the guitar.
Yeah, it's not a world of zero electricity, but it's scarce.
Exactly, exactly.
There's one point where mail carriers ambush some wholeness and forward, not necessarilyalways being the best leadership decisions.

(01:04:10):
He sends those bodies back to Bethlehem, which enrages him even all the more.
And finally, after more mail carriers are killed, the postman
feeling responsible for their deaths, decides to disband the service.
And he has a letter sort of explaining everything.
But by this point, the movement has grown beyond what he can control, which is just, it'sso interesting.

(01:04:36):
And they're hearing about Postman down in California, and it's like, it's this wholething.
And I'm like, it's really interesting the way this movie deals with a movement spreadingbeyond the people who started it.
Yeah, and who started it for not necessarily the right reasons, but it literally is thepower of hope and freedom.

(01:04:59):
once it's grown at a certain point, you cannot put that genie back in the bottle.
Right, right.
So we have this sequence where the postman and a few others, they escape to a place calledBridge City, which is this settlement in and around a large dam.
And the mayor of Bridge City is Tom Petty.
Now I'm not saying that Tom Petty plays the mayor of Bridge City.

(01:05:22):
Although I guess that's true too.
Tom Petty is playing himself who in the future has become the mayor of Bridge City.
Like Kevin Costner walks up to him.
He's like, I reckon you were famous once.
Yeah, I kinda was.
Or I guess I was, whatever it is.
It's fantastic.

(01:05:43):
And then they turn it around because you get a bit of a seesaw on the scene where, once hediscovers once Tom Petty, the mayor of Bridgetown mayor Tom Petty, once he realizes that
Kevin Costner is the postman, he says, no, you're you're famous.
You're the postman.

(01:06:05):
You're famous.
yeah.
No, it's, it's terrific.
look, it's fun.
It's fun.
Yeah.
No, there, he helps.
The postman escaping the zip line bucket contraction from the top of the dam.
it's a kind of odd sequence.
don't know if it quite fits with the rest of the movie.
It's like doing this escape thing.
It's, it's the one super obvious blue screen that you see in this movie, which does makeit stand out.

(01:06:31):
it looks, it's, looks good, but it's just, if you'd had a bunch of action scenes with bluescreen and you were set up for that, you wouldn't notice it, but it's like,
two plus hours into the movie at this point.
everything else has felt very real and grounded and organic and to have this now it'slike, it's an, it's an odd thing.
but then everything comes to head as the postman and the wholeness meet for one finalBraveheart style battle.

(01:06:55):
I mentioned Braveheart when we were talking about war, war world essentially was madeconcurrently with Braver.
Here's a movie that they're doing sort of that Braveheart style battle with each armylining up on either side of the field, which is something.
that you commonly saw in sort of big epics of like the 50s and 60s and then kind of wentaway for a while.
And then Braveheart brought back and and you you have this before things can turn intofull scale mayhem.

(01:07:21):
Costner's character calls for a truce and challenges Bethlehem to single combat asprescribed in the eight laws that the but Chris, Chris, Chris, no, no, the postman, he
can't challenge for leadership of the clink.
He's not
He was.
Dun dun dun.
When they branded him with the figure eight, when they impressed him into the army, thatwas so he's got, you know, it's basically he uses a legal technicality to, to, to, to

(01:07:51):
against them, which is, which is fantastic.
And also just is calling out a movie being a movie.
He's wearing a real postal coat that was leftover.
This is like a well -made garment.
except if you want to display the eight branded on your arms, he just grabs it and it'slike Velcro.
just like comes off like pro wrestling.

(01:08:13):
K -Fabe.
Yeah.
The postman and Bethlehem fight postman wins, but he's decides he's going to spareBethlehem's life.
But here's the thing, Rob, as soon as he was like, I'm going to spare his life.
He like, he keeps Ford from, killing him.
He's like,
But I was like, no, there's no way this movie can end with Bethlehem alive.

(01:08:35):
So sure enough, Bethlehem, you know, he goes to, to grabs a ghost for a gun and then iskilled by one of his own guys.
Cause you just couldn't leave this guy alive.
You know, it's am I mistaken?
I think that might be the guy who at the beginning of the movie, they say tried tochallenge general Bethlehem and wound up getting
beaten, his tongue was cut out so he couldn't speak.

(01:08:58):
just follows Bethlehem around by a puppy dog.
Cause he speak at the end, does he?
No, no, he just suits him.
It's like, and the tongue was not all that was cut off.
Yeah.
And then everybody's going to live happily ever after.
But I'm telling you, Rob, here's the thing that this movie doesn't deal with.
those wholeness are not going gently into that good night.

(01:09:18):
They are going to be the lost causers of the 21st century.
They are going to cling to their, their philosophy.
It's going to be a whole damn thing.
That's going to be the whole century.
I'm telling you, it, no, nobody gives up that kind of philosophy overnight.
Some will, but some will not.
It'll be a whole thing.
There'll be someone, there'll be neo wholeness in 2030 years.

(01:09:40):
It'll be a thing.
in Frank, not in Frank Capra's mad max there.
Well, that's true.
That's not in Frank.
We actually jump ahead for the final scene.
We jump ahead 30 years.
To where the postman, saving Private Ryan style, the postman and Abby's daughter, playedby Mary Stuart Masterson in a cameo appearance, she's unveiling a statue in her father's

(01:10:01):
honor.
And it's being done at this St.
Rose, this place that he wanted to get to, but that he never did.
But they're unveiling the statue there.
And it looks as if the world has kind of returned to normalcy.
Like there's photographers there.
I think I saw like a TV camera.
Everybody's dressed to kind of vaguely late nineties style.

(01:10:24):
I was going to say the fashion industry looks like it's restarted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, it's a, and the statue, they take the, they take the, the, the, the,the thing that they unveiled the statue and it's the scene with the postman dramatically
grabbing the letter from the kid.
And there's a plaque on the statue that reads the postman 1973.

(01:10:48):
to 2043, which means that he died that year, but apparently never told anybody his name.
Like it just says the postman, like, and his daughter, like, like he never, never said,yeah, honey, you can call me dad or Al like, or anything like that.
Like it's actually in the book, his name is Gordon.
The book doesn't keep a thing of his name is just Gordon.

(01:11:09):
but I'm like, would have a name by this point.
He, it's not like he died in battle in 2013.
the legend.
Print the legend.
You're right.
You're right.
It's an odd movie.
It's a very interesting movie.
And it did not deserve the critical savaging that it got at the time.
you know, it's a...

(01:11:29):
Yeah, because I have a theory that Braveheart, in addition to whatever else about thefilmmaking, right?
Sure.
You know, in the storytelling, all of that.
But Braveheart was a heart on its sleeve.
Let's fight for freedom about something
well in our past.
Right.
And at the time, if it was a, you know, a period piece about not now, cause we're, it wasthe end of history in the late nineties in America, right?

(01:11:59):
The cold war was over.
There's nothing, there's no more anything, right?
Totally advanced forever.
And it was fine.
whereas the postman, you know, if you're in the future and that just feels like it'stalking more about the present and people are dressed more like they are.
worth the time, et cetera.
It just, you were not allowed to do that then.
Now look, audience people listening, maybe you've seen the postman and you hate it.

(01:12:24):
Maybe you will watch it and you think that, you know, Chris and I are crazy, but I do, youknow, so, you know, different people like different things.
That's sure.
I, the reputation in this movie for me, at least I feel is super undeserved.
I do wonder if more critics in particular,
watched it now.
Are there some things that they might think of as syrupy or saccharin or whatever or tooblack and white?

(01:12:51):
Perhaps.
I wonder how they'd feel about in light of the past eight years in this country, what thatmessage might be, much like I felt very differently about Stephen King's villains, who I
thought seemed very unrealistic and I like a throwback.
I'm like, those types of good old boys aren't around anymore.

(01:13:12):
And I, and I, you know, wrote him an imaginary apology letter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I said, I was, I was wrong.
We were just, we were in a fallow period, but the wheel always turns.
I think to me, there, there's something that what I think is really interesting about thismovie and, and, the state is it makes a statement that I happen to agree with.

(01:13:36):
And, and, and that's a statement about America that I think is really
is really interesting.
Like the character of the postman is a liar.
He's just trying to hustle some shelter and some food.
But what happens over the course of the film is this lie that he tells about the restoredUnited States takes on a life of its own because enough people believe in it, it becomes

(01:13:59):
true.
And I think that's America.
Like when Thomas Jefferson wrote that all men are created equal, he owned other humanbeings as property.
Those words were not true when he wrote them down and he knew they weren't true.
But over time, if enough people can believe them, maybe they can become true.

(01:14:20):
And that the dream of America, I believe this, I genuinely believe this.
I think the dream of America is a lie that has the possibility to become true if enoughpeople believe it.
And that's what I think this movie's about.
And I just think...
I think it's an extraordinary movie.
You know, it's funny.
It struck me.
like, reminded me of the Rocketeer in some ways as a movie that came out at precisely thewrong time.

(01:14:43):
The Rocketeer had been out 10 years earlier, 10 years later, it would have been a big hit.
This movie came out at just the wrong time for the world that, you know, the world wasjust not in a place where it was mentally ready for this movie and the message that it
had.
think earlier or later, it might've had a very different, it might've been very different.

(01:15:04):
And going off what you said, one of the things that I always love about the 4th of July,which for those outside of the states, when we celebrate our Independence Day, it's the
day that the declaration was signed and sent off to King George.
Most countries, and look, I'm not an exhaustive geographic scholar, so I'm sure that thisis not true for every single country.

(01:15:27):
But most countries that I am aware of celebrate
thing if they celebrate, you know, a national day at all, it often is like the founding ofthe country or a treaty or the battle that won them something.
Right.
And one thing that I always find special and telling about the U S is we celebrate the daywe wrote a letter and said we were independent, not the day that it was factually true.

(01:15:53):
Right.
And that that, and that that is what's deemed important.
It's the day that we said we were.
And that I think that touches upon, you know, a lot of what you were talking about, aslightly different angle.
I agree.
I agree.
A hundred percent.
think that I, I think that's, yeah, I think that's America.
so man, it really has been a post -apocalyptic summer and we now we're at the end of it.

(01:16:19):
got slapped so silly.
We became patriotic somehow.
I don't know.
I'm defending the post, man.
I'm talking about how great the U S can be.
Sometimes.
Yeah.
Has the potential to be, but I've been, I've been smacked into a, a hard on my sleeveoptimist this episode, Chris, please get me some horror movies.

(01:16:45):
We gotta put a stop to it.
There's, we got a wallow in it.
Yeah.
As summer turns to fall, I think the time has come for us to come back to one of ourfavorite genres.
And this fall, we will be heading into the dark, dark woods to face machete -wieldingmaniacs with our Get Me Another Friday the 13th series.

(01:17:10):
Join us Friday, September 13th, if you dare.
And we really hope that you dare just for the record.
No, I'm like, if you listen to the podcast, it's going to be fine.
It's going to be fine.
Exactly.
You will, you will be okay.
This podcast, to be fair, the podcast is going to have a death curse, but I just, know,it's gonna, it's gonna, we're gonna, it's going to be you, me and Justin.

(01:17:39):
gonna be three hosts, but by the end, who knows?
Who knows?
Yeah.
And if you want to skip episode four is when we're going to do strip monopoly.
So you can all skip that episode at a time.
Okay.
Thank you so much for listening.
We are your hosts, Chris Iannicote and Rob Lemorgz.
If you've enjoyed the show, please consider subscribing, following us on Twitter,Instagram threads and blue sky and get me another pod.

(01:18:05):
And remember if you've liked the show, tell your friends about it.
Tell your enemies about it.
Tell that doctor who's treating you for the bad mumps about it.
And join us next time as we continue to explore what happens when Hollywood says, get meenough.