Jaws Ep. 02 - Orca (with Carmelita Valdez McKoy) - Get Me Another

Episode Transcript
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(00:09):
Hello and welcome to Get Me Another, a podcast where we explore those movies that followedin the wake of blockbuster hits and attempted to replicate their success.
My name is Chris Ayanacone, and with me are my co-hosts Rob Lemorgis.
Chris, can a man commit a sin against a podcast?
Well, yeah, but I think he's really committing a sin against himself.

(00:34):
And Justin Beam!
Chris.
You're not a man, you're an animal.
It's true, it's true.
Today is the second episode in our Get Me Another Jaws series, during which we'll belooking at the wave of movies featuring animals of all kinds attacking human beings.

(00:58):
Although as today's movie illustrates, sometimes not without good cause.
Last week we discussed Steven Spielberg's landmark film Jaws, as well as a Mexican-Britishco-production that followed in 1977, Tintorerra Tiger Show.
But this week, we'll be exploring an absolutely fascinating and surprising film featuringthe great white shark's only natural predator.

(01:26):
And to help us in our effort, joining us for the first time on the show is CarmelitaValdez-McCoy.
Welcome to the show, Carmelita.
gentlemen, thank you so very much for having me.
are so excited to have you and and I've been listening to you on a number of podcastslately.
I listened to your episodes on the Filmstrip podcast discussing the two ArnoldSchwarzenegger Conan films and that was terrific.

(01:53):
I've heard you a number of times on the VHS podcast.
You know, you're you're all over the place and and you're fantastic.
So we're excited to have you on.
No, thank you.
I love movies and I love talking about them.
So this is exciting for me.
oh
That's
Whoa, whoa, whoa, for yourself.
Come on Chris, don't be presumptuous here.

(02:14):
Well, well, yeah, you're right.
I don't, I don't want to be.
But I like that you tied the beginning, the intro here, into the only natural predator ofthe great white.
Right, well I didn't want to say the title of the film because in a moment I'll say thetitle of the film again as we lead into the trailer.
So was all part of my grand plan.

(02:38):
So, without further ado, from 1977, this is Orca.
The ancient Romans called him Orca or Kynos, Latin or bringer of death.
He is without challenge the most powerful animal on the globe.
the killer whale.
Orca has 48 teeth set in two impressive rows.

(03:00):
In some respects, the orca's intelligence may be even superior to man's.
They remain loyal to one mate for life.
As parents, they are exemplary, better than many human beings, and like human beings, theyhave a profound instinct for vengeance.

(03:21):
An innocent creature is destroyed by an act of human cruelty.
and the ultimate battle of man against nature begins.
Dino De Laurentiis presents Orca.
Can you commit a sin against an animal?
He followed you.
He saw you on the deck of the boat.

(03:41):
I always remember the human being who had tried to
do your boat because he wants to fight you on the sea.
I won't do that.
Now the fish have vanished from the fishing grounds.
It's all because of your whale.

(04:04):
In fact, I won't fight him at all.
You're not even man enough to accept the excitement of his challenge.
I'll fight you!

(04:26):
Starring Richard Harris, Charlotte Rampling, Will Sampson, Keenan Wynn.
A spectacular adventure.
From the depths of the sea...
to the top of the world.
It's going to be a fair fight, on equal terms.

(04:47):
A fight to the death.
the two most dangerous animals on What in hell are you?
Man and Orca.
Carlito, when I first started talking to you about coming on the podcast and I mentioned,okay, we're doing our Get Me Another Jaws series this summer.

(05:11):
It was instantly.
Before I even gave you any of the movies we were thinking about, you just jumped out withOrca.
You were like, I want to talk about Orca.
And it was like, that's, I mean, it was on our list.
So it was, it was perfect, but you were just, you were so excited to talk about Orca and Ihad never seen it.

(05:31):
it's now I know why it is a fascinating movie.
really is.
I would love for more people to watch Orca, revisit Orca.
I would love it if more people loved it as much as I do, because I'm going to just putthis out on Front Street.

(05:52):
Sure.
I unironically, unapologetically love Orca.
think that's fantastic.
I really do.
If anyone walks away from listening to this episode, I hope they'll say that Carmelita,she is a staunch defender, a champion.

(06:14):
For Orca, the killer whale.
Well, you I got to say I watched this.
had never seen this before.
We started working on this episode.
So I watched it for the first time last week and have been kind of watching it in small.
I've been rewatching it and little little pieces as I've been working on the notes.
an unusual thing happened because when I first watched it, I didn't quite know what tomake of it.

(06:36):
I was kind of like it was it was striking.
It's a striking film for sure.
But I didn't quite know what to make of it.
And then as
the notes as days went on, I'm working on the notes.
I realized today as I was finishing, I love this movie.
Like, it's just, it's so strange and it's so bizarre.

(06:59):
I love this movie.
Carmelita, when did you first see it?
Okay, so.
I first saw this, I was very young, maybe five.
that feels like it might be a little too young for Orca.
a somber introduction to sea life.
My goodness!
Free Willy?

(07:19):
Fuck that!
Lucas, Warcraft!
No.
OK, so here's the thing, though.
Early, early 80s, my dad is the cinephile in the family that introduced me to many filmsas a child.
We were allowed to watch whatever he was watching.
So I watched things like The Godfather, like The Wild Bunch, Halloween, all before I madeit to kindergarten.

(07:47):
So.
my goodness.
mean, you know, like I'm an Italian from New Jersey.
So, you know, the Godfather kind of comes with the standard kit, but like, it's, I didn'tsee it that young.
My goodness.
yeah, no, I was raised on this stuff.
So I am very desensitized.

(08:08):
Nothing shocks me anymore.
know, so orca will.
I'll tell you, it's kind of funny.
You know how sometimes like parents, lot of times dads or father figures will do that,like chase the kids around the house being the monster, the boogeyman or whatever.
Sure, sometimes they put a slice of orange in their mouth.
Like in the Godfather.
Well, one of my dad's favorite little monster characters to chase us around the house withwas Orca Yeah, true story

(08:36):
Please tell me this.
Please give us the sound.
There, there's a real diverse soundboard throughout this film of noises that the orcasmake.
I would love to know which one he chose.
Allegedly sounds that orcas make.
Some of them are suspects.

(08:58):
But they're oh
Well, some of it's terrifying, most of it's kinda just adorable.
Well, some of it, but when it's, it's with screams of pain, I'm like, my-
there's that.
But most of the time it's just like squeaks and I don't know, the blowhole sounds werereally inconsistent.
That, that I was like, do they not have scripty on the blowhole?

(09:21):
Because once in a while it would be a gush.
Sometimes it's a gurgle.
Sometimes it's like a straight, like fire hose spray.
So the, the, the sound on
The orca, I think, is a fascinating thing to evaluate as we're talking through this film,for sure.
It's interesting.

(09:42):
it's interesting.
We certainly will.
The man behind Orca, known in some markets as Orca the Killer Whale, was famed Italianproducer Dino De Laurentiis, who produced a number of movies we've discussed on the show,
including Flash Gordon, the aforementioned Conan the Barbarian, and of course Dune, aswell as many, many more over the years, from Barbarella to Serpico to the 1976 version of

(10:05):
King Kong.
And the story goes that in 1975,
Dio De Laurentiis called producer and writer Luciano Vincentini in the middle of the nightafter having seen Jaws and told him to quote, find a fish more terrible than the great
white, which technically he didn't do because whales are mammals, not fish.

(10:30):
and this movie is just, it's so absolutely fascinating and frankly downright bizarre.
If Jaws was at its core,
a kind of slasher film, with the shark as the killer.
Orca is a 70s revenge thriller.
In short, it's Death Wish with the whale in the Charles Bronson role.

(10:54):
Yeah, and it's interesting with, you know, this movie, I think, has a couple of piecesthat we find a lot with first out of the gate trend followers.
So, you know, and just two things, Spielberg's Jaws, ah I think, technically, you know, inthe filmmaking was pushing forward, right?

(11:17):
This is a movie that is not doing that.
It's very, very well done, but it feels
I know this sounds a little crazy.
It feels closer to like Disney's Swiss family Robinson to me.
It's like a rollicking adventure, a very, very disturbing one.
And so I think it's, feels much more classic, you know, for, for the time period.

(11:39):
I wrote that the filmmaking feels more traditional.
was like, yeah, there's something about it that it's a little more sort of, as you say,sort of formalized.
I didn't make the thought of Swiss Family Robinson.
Yes.
I mean, now that you say it, I'm kind of still a little like, wait, what?
But like, I get what you're saying, because it doesn't feel, in some ways, the style offilmmaking doesn't feel post-job.

(12:06):
My notes read a little differently.
I think it's more like Jaws mixed with the documentary Curt and Courtney.
Has anyone, have you guys seen that documentary?
No.
I have not, but I can guess what it's about.
Nick Bloomfield, it's like a pretty low budget documentary about Kurt's death and hisexplorer, this uh documentarian's filmmakers exploration of the whole thing, like the

(12:33):
universe around them and all of it.
And it's so dark and depressing and morose and it's in color, but it feels black andwhite.
It's drenched with the Seattle gloom.
This movie feels drenched in Seattle gloom.
is in the horror realm.
This is far and away the least fun, least colorful and most, I think, oppressive film thatwe've watched in pretty much any of the series that I've been a part of with you guys.

(13:07):
And I've always felt this way about Orca and in revisiting it prior to the episode here, Iwas reminded of that.
It's not that I don't like it.
It's not that it's just that it is such a holy singular experience for me within the genrebecause I don't watch a lot of real dark, bleak movies.
And this one, I wouldn't say it's bleak, but it has this overtone visually and with thestory that is so sad and full of loss and full of anguish and pain.

(13:40):
And the animal is living it.
as well as the humans that are around it.
And there's so much guilt, there's shame associated with it.
It is the heaviest film that we've talked about, I think, yet.
It really is.
And it's not a fun, it's not like, hey guys, let's get some beers and throw in orca.

(14:01):
You're not going to be that.
It's not the movie for that.
is, as my father would say, and we've said several times on this show, it's a toughpicture.
Yeah.
But it's, it is so, it feels like a tragedy.
It just has so like, the feelings in it and Richard Harris's performance, we'll get tothat, feel on a scale of Greek or Shakespearean tragedy.

(14:30):
Yes, this is like a tragedy of blood written by Shakespeare.
Yeah.
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
If you could have filled the Globe Theater with water, like the Romans did with theColosseum, could have had an orca.
Shakespeare could have written an orca.
I mean, it would have been an iambic pentameter and all that.

(14:51):
But, you know, the story and the feelings are absolutely Shakespeare.
There is one tiny exception, just a few times in the movie where there is an adulteratedglee.
And that is when the orca takes some motherfuckers out.
Shumps up like you.

(15:12):
Yeah.
Oh yeah, no.
Orca was written by Luciano Vincentini and Sergio Donati.
Vincentini had written numerous Italian films, including Death Rides a Horse and Duck YouSucker.
And Donati similarly had worked on films like Once Upon a Time in the West, theaforementioned Duck You Sucker, as well as a movie with one of my favorite titles of all

(15:33):
time, Shoot First, Die Later.
It's an amazing title.
And it also, there was an uncredited rewrite done on the script by Robert Town who didsome work on the dialogue.
And the film was directed by Michael Anderson who had directed the Oscar winning 1956adaptation of Around the World in 80 Days and later directed films such as the Quiller

(15:56):
Memorandum, Doc Savage, Man of Bronze, and his film immediately prior to this, a moviethat I'm a big fan of, Logan's Run.
And it's so interesting because like,
Logan's Run, I've seen many times and it's so funny to me that that movie comes out a yearbefore Star Wars.
as Rob, as you mentioned with the filmmaking style that Anderson has feels considerablyearlier than that.

(16:22):
It doesn't feel like, yeah, 11 months later after Logan's Run, you have Star Wars.
This movie doesn't necessarily feel in terms of filmmaking like it's two years after Jawsbecause the style is much more formal.
love Logan's thread, it's amazing.
And that visual style that you're talking about most definitely hearkens back.
Yeah.
It's just so cinematic.

(16:43):
Logan's Rodden is that's a we got a fire there's no there's no way of a bonus episode onit is some I just want to do box fish and plankton and protein from the sea just I love it
I love it orcas stars Richard Harris who had his first lead role in the 1963 film thissporting life and was propelled the stardom in the 1967 film adaptation of Camelot now

(17:09):
apparently this movie orca
came at a very chaotic time in Harris's life.
He was apparently drinking heavily and he came to believe that his wife was cheating onhim.
So there was at one point, I guess that he was gonna fly to Malibu to confront her and theguy.
And he only didn't go after getting into a fist fight with Luciano Vincentini and givinghim a black eye.

(17:35):
So, you know, things were a little chaotic in 1976 on the Orca set.
Now I do not need people to wreck their lives or have a bad time in order to make a movie.
No.
However, sometimes when their life is a mess, it comes across in the right role at theright time.

(17:55):
And everything you just said, could a hundred percent feel in his performance.
is, yes, it is so unhinged in the best possible way.
Like you, it is, it is a fantastic performance in a movie that is
probably more often than not overlooked when it comes to Richard Harris performances.
Right, right.
And also I want to mention that Harris performed a lot of his own stunts for the movie andwas nearly killed more than once.

(18:21):
Again, I don't need my actors to die, you know, I mean, but he went, he went Tom Cruise onOrca before Tom Cruise was Tom Cruise.
And you could feel it.
You could feel the, you could feel the realism.
He did.
You could see it in his eyes.
Like especially the later part of the picture where they're on the boat, we'll get to it,but like,

(18:42):
There is something, there is, you know, there is something going on.
There's something going on right here.
In addition to Harris, the film also stars Charlotte Rampling, Will Sampson, Bo Derek andKeenan Wynn.
And the film was shot in and around Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada, although some ofthe shots at sea were filmed off the island of Malta, as well as some of the underwater

(19:06):
footage of Wales was shot at the now defunct Marine land of the Pacific.
here in Southern California.
The whales who were used, by the way, were named Yucca and Nepo, which I just think isgreat.
So let's get into it because this is, again, it's fascinating.
When you open with this series of computer sounds and whale song, and there's a very 70sreadout on the screen, like giving like distance and time.

(19:35):
Well, look at the graphics to me.
It's very $6 million, man.
Like there's something about it that like it has that vibe, like that, that weirdseventies slightly futuristic, but they didn't know where the future was going to go.
I find it fascinating as an aesthetic.
And we have a couple of notable names in the credits here.
uh Music by Ennio Morricone, a terrific score.

(20:00):
It really is.
It really is.
Like it's, it just, it's so imbued with emotion.
and again, I'll keep coming back to this word.
Tragedy because this film just feels imbued with that
And at the beginning here, when you hear that score over the shots of the orcas playing,you know, kind of here at the beginning, it's so, you know, talk about playing against the

(20:28):
Jaws theme.
mean, it's it's both majestic and haunting, right?
There's all.
Yeah.
When I was watching it, I mean, it almost plays a little folk horror or something, but youget that sadness in there, too, which.
you know, unfortunately is foreshadowing what's going to happen to these guys.
yeah.
The other name I wanted to point out was the cinematographer was Ted Moore.

(20:49):
And Ted Moore was British cinematographer.
He shot seven James Bond films, which is incredible, as well as A Man for All Seasons,which featured Robert Shaw.
And later a movie we talked about a long time ago on the show, Ray Harryhousen's Clash ofthe Titans.
We open with two whales sort of leaping out of the water and the sun is low in the sky.

(21:14):
First of all, it's very interesting that we see the whales before we see any humans inthis movie.
Because whose side are we going to ultimately end up?
Guys, I don't know about you.
I was pulling for the whale.
Yes, and I think it's not really all that ambiguous.
No.
Because of the way this opens, this blissful, it's almost like orca couple in the Gardenof Eden.

(21:39):
was gonna say in the Garden of Eden,
this careless selfish man, a human will come and destroy their bliss.
Yeah.
Absolutely, that's exactly that.
it's this is it's all great and then humans gonna come in and I'll be honest, they'regonna fuck everything up.

(22:00):
It's also almost a complete reversal of the opening of Jaws where with that you see thepeople and not the shark and then you see the shark preying upon the people but you don't
see the shark.
It's all it's it's you're firmly on the side of of the people in Jaws.
even if you acknowledge that in Jaws, the animal is not malevolent, it's just doing whatit does, you're always on the side of the people.

(22:27):
Here, I mean, I was on the side of the whale and I'm not 100%.
I was like, I think the movie wants me to be there, but we also spend a lot of time withthe humans.
It's a very curious sort of, you know, it's a very curious movie.
I'm always on the side of the animals, just for note.
Sure.

(22:47):
In all these films, I'm always cheering for the animals.
We've had enough of man destroying things and most notably man destroying animals.
So that's part of why I love this cycle so much that we're going through here is becausewe get a chance to celebrate that.
And uh as a very animal friendly person, I have to say that it's always a joy to seenature get the one up.

(23:10):
Yeah, no.
And here, like again, if this stupid whale, you know, if this stupid fisherman hadn'tstuck his snout into all of this, these whales would have just kept on, it's not like,
they were swimming up to the beach and chomping on some girl who's, you know, who's takinguh a dip in the evening.

(23:31):
Man is entirely at fault for this, as he usually is, to be perfectly honest.
So we're on the
beautiful rugged coast of Newfoundland.
see a tape recorder with a wire leading down to the water.
We hear the sound of whale song.
There's a diver underwater and then the guy on the surface with an inflatable raft, who Ididn't realize until much later was Robert Carradine.

(23:56):
At first I couldn't because it was kind of you were far away.
wasn't until later I was like, my God, that's Robert Carradine.
Like literally like half the movie went by before I realized who he was.
Well, they really show him later on, like in his last reel is when you really get a goodlook at him.
But he is, I, he is the only time I've been starstruck when I was working on a title.

(24:19):
Really?
When I was doing the, the Blu-ray release of Body Bags, which is John Carpenter and TobyHooper anthology thing.
When Robert walked into the studio, I froze and I've never had that happen.
Just to hear his demure little voice having grown up watching Revenge of the Nerds meanmore times than I can count my brother and I can quote the entire film front to back

(24:42):
pretty much that and strange brew and uh See just seeing him walk in extend his hand andbe like Justin.
Thank you so much for having me be part of this.
I was like, ah, I was so excited
I will say this for Robert Carradine, he looks great with 70s hair.
Usually 70s hair is not necessarily gonna be the best look, but for Robert Carradine, man,it worked on him, it worked on him.

(25:11):
So there's a diver in the water, but who comes along but a great white shark?
Now, honestly, I'm surprised they didn't try and license the Jaws theme for it, becausethis movie, this section of the movie,
has a kind of meta-textual uh angle to it.
It's like, it's clearly building off of Jaws.
The diver sees the shark, tries to hide under a rock, but it drops and hits the sea floor.

(25:36):
And I love how when it drops and hits the sea floor, the shark's head kind of turns, likeit hears.
I don't know if that's how sounds work underwater.
I don't know how the shark's hearing works, but it's so cool.
It's very cool.
And I love that we're just getting this out of the way from the jump.
Yeah.
Everyone who showed up to see this, anyone who has rented it since, you know that theymade this movie to cash in on Jaws.

(26:05):
We might as well just get this formality out of the way and address this right from thegate.
And I love it's like an early version of what Sam Raimi ripping the Hills have eyesposter.
Yeah.
Because they're also, Hey, our heroes get away from a great white pretty easily.
uh what's coming up later will not be so easy for them to deal with.

(26:27):
So on the surface we meet the crew of the fishing vessel Bum Po, captained by Nolan,played by Richard Harris, with a crew that includes Keenan Wynn as Novak, Bo Derek as
Annie, and Peter Hooten as Paul.
Now, Peter Hooten played the role of Dr.
Strange in the 1978 TV movie of that character.

(26:49):
And I swear to God, if we don't get Peter Hooten in secret oars, I'm going to be bullshit.
What's weird, this is the weirdest crew.
Like, let's be honest.
Like, it's so odd that it's like, okay, you have Keenan Wynn, you uh have Richard Harris,Peter Houghton's the young guy, but then you have Bo Derek, who admittedly looks like Bo

(27:10):
Derek as part of the crew.
Like, it's such an odd mix of like, why is Bo Derek here?
As opposed to like on a beach in, know, 10 or something like that.
This was, by the way, her first film role.
What?
Just like

(27:31):
It's never really clear like why these people are the crew of this, how these people cametogether.
But it doesn't really matter.
No, it doesn't matter.
It feels slightly odd.
like, what is this group?
And they soon spot a shark and they go after it, but they're waved off by RobertCarradine, who tells them that there's a diver in the water.

(27:56):
Now, at first, they pull the diver up.
At first, Nolan is pissed that the diver got in the way until he realizes, guys, it's alady diver.
And then his attitude changes dramatically.
Nice going, baby.
You maybe just cost us a quarter of a million bucks.
I what?
It is the truth.

(28:16):
Do you know how much an aquarium would pay for a great white shark?
Ten thousand a foot.
And he was 25 feet if he was the arch.
Can you believe that, Fifty foot he was at least.
Fifty foot.
Climb aboard.
And the lady is Charlotte Rampling as cytologist Rachel Bedford.
And, you know, I mean, she just, she,

(28:38):
takes off the wetsuit, her hair comes down, it's sort of perfect, she has these brightblue eyes that sort of sparkle and it's just like, oh, it's, know, because you know what,
no one, ladies can be divers too, I'm just saying.
This whole character and her performance, not that I want to be clear, she does not soundlike Catherine Hepburn, but this really feels like a 70s update of that kind of character.

(29:04):
So Rachel gets on board on the, she gets on board the Bum Po for reasons I don't quiteunderstand.
Her assistant stays in the inflatable boat and immediately falls into the water.
Things are looking pretty grim for Robert Carradine because the shark is getting closerand closer until guys, he's saved by our superhero orca.

(29:26):
Yeah, there's a hero in this story.
It's not Richard Harris.
It is not Richard Harris.
Like, we see the orca, like the orcas racing in at the last minute and literally knocksthe shark out of the water.
Like, literally.
Like, it is a superhero intro.

(29:46):
It's like Superman flying up and catching Lois Lane and the helicopter and being like, youknow, who are you?
A friend.
That's the introduction that this the whale
Absolutely, it's totally that.
Like, all he needs is a cape!
There's a lot of superhero antics from the whales in this film.

(30:07):
There's a lot of flying.
There's a lot of very improbable scenarios where things are knocked up, down, off, oraround that are completely outside the water by the whale in this movie.
It's pretty remarkable what it does the entire time.
This whale does some amazing, amazing things.
my God, we'll get to them.

(30:29):
But like this whole scene here, know, so say before it feels very meta.
here's the big bad of the previous movie that everybody saw and now we're gonna introducesomething even bigger.
It's like, you mentioned the evil dead thing.
It's like starting your slasher film with someone killing a Michael Myers or Jason clone.

(30:50):
Like it's kind of that.
I forgot to mention before, but Rainey was doing that in response to Wes Craven rippingthe Jaws poster in Hills Have I.
Coming full circle.
uh yeah, no, their orca can kill your Jaws.
And I want to point out that the only one in the horror pantheon to have killed, puttingthis in air quotes, Jason and Freddie is Angela in Sleepaway Camp Part Two.

(31:21):
in Sleepaway Camp Two, which is arguably the most fun of the Sleepaway Camps, there's somechicanery one night as they're trying, as some of the counselors or some of the kids
are...
plotting to scare Angela, like get revenge on her.
And so one of them dresses as Freddie with the glove.
One of them puts the Jason mask on and, then Angela shows up dressed as leather face andkills them both.

(31:47):
So it has happened in horror cinema, not at the beginning of the movie though, like wehave here.
And we even get a line like, there's only one creature in the world that do that.
A killer whale.
It's a fantastic opening contextualizing this movie.
Let me put it this way.
This movie knew it was going to be on our podcast.

(32:08):
When they were making this movie in 1977, they knew that someday there would be a thingcalled podcasts and there'd be one about movies that fall in the wake of other movies.
And this movie would be on it.
It's, know, it's just the way it is.
I also want to mention that the underwater shark footage here was shot by Ron Taylor, whodid a lot of the underwater shark footage for Jaws in Australia, Australian filmmaker.

(32:32):
So then we immediately cut to Rachel giving a lecture on orcas, presumably at whatevercollege she teaches at.
We learned that orca brains are the same size as humans.
We get a slide of an orca fetus, which we'll come back into play later.
And that their sonar is a bit like human beings having X-ray vision.

(32:52):
And it's interesting because we hear her in voiceover talking about how Nolan is attendingher lectures and talking to her after class.
But what's interesting, we never actually see that.
It's just told to us in voiceover.
And most notably, orcas are monogamous.
an important detail.
Yes, a word that Nolan doesn't understand when he's asked about it later.

(33:16):
What's that mean?
means they mate for life.
It will come.
It will.
Charlotte Rampling is so amazing.
Any time she's in a film, she brings this amazing presence.
And now voiceover narration irks a lot of people.
I get it.

(33:36):
But it's Charlotte Rampling.
Right.
It's that voice.
It's amazing.
I am not displeased to hear Charlotte rambling telling me about orcas or anything else shecares to talk about.
Yes.
It's also important that it is her character, Rachel, giving the voiceover, which isn't,you know, it's, it's minimal, think, throughout it, it comes and goes, but she is someone

(34:00):
who studies whales.
So this isn't the captain's voiceover.
And it's just another little clue, not that you necessarily need it when you're watching,but this is not his movie at all.
Um, you know, if anything at best it is kind of equal parts him in the whale, you know,cause that's the other thing is that if, if jaws drew from Moby Dick in some ways, I mean,

(34:22):
this really draws.
this is full on.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And so it's, it's pretty good in that way.
And I do love a lot of the technical information she's giving.
You do get kind of that same sense as Hooper, right?
And that, and then no one, no one wants to learn more, but his, desire for knowledge is uhnot, motivated by doing good.

(34:50):
No.
It's not pure at all,
And I think it may have been vital for audiences to learn a little bit about KillerWhales.
sure.
There was no way to know what Jaws initiated when it came to public perception of theGreat White and leading to today and Shark Week.
mean, 90 % of those shows are somehow tied to Great Whites.

(35:12):
it became the mythical creature of the ocean, just like T-Rex did after Jurassic Park.
And so the
It wasn't necessarily common knowledge what great whites were all about and the referencekiller whale.
Who would they stalk in the ocean?
Who would be their natural prey?
And what were they all about?
I think it's really helpful to set it up that way because it provides context also for theemotional maturity and capability of these animals, these mammals.

(35:41):
Absolutely.
It's something that's often discounted in a lot of these movies.
It's just taken for granted.
People know a bird's a bird or whatever.
But here,
I like that we give more to, we give credit to these animals for being sentient beings andfor being something more than just like killing machine.
And this is where that starts.
I love the little detail and I don't know how accurate it is.

(36:04):
When she's showing the slide of the different mammal brains and the orca brain has allthese folds, a lot more folds than the human brain.
oh And that's tied to intelligence, right?
Because that's, it's the, it's yes, it's the, it's the texture as much as the size.

(36:25):
Yes.
We also learned from this voiceover that Rachel kind of finds Nolan attractive.
Although I didn't necessarily get that vibe in their conversations, at least it's, it'stheir relationship is a curious one.
Let's just say that.
Like I'm never quite sure where, where her feelings were at.

(36:45):
She's conflicted, I think.
I think she is not pleased with his attitude towards animals and his treatment of animals.
And she feels very strongly about that.
However, there's there's an inner conflict going on here.
I think she's clearly drawn to him.

(37:06):
Yeah.
And then the fact the more he reveals this kind of tortured, brooding aspect of hischaracter.
She's more and more drawn in, which I understand.
Well, he starts out very kind of boisterous Irish.
Obviously Richard Harris is Irish.
Here he plays an Irishman who was living in Canada, although I'm not entirely clear onthat because the Bumbo is an American flagged ship, but he's at least working out of

(37:33):
Canada at the moment.
And here's the thing about Richard Harris early in this movie.
He's so authentically Irish, he almost comes off as fake Irish.
Like, nobody's that Irish.
But as the movie goes on and the layers get stripped away, it's really quite atransformation in his character over the course of this movie to a very dark and brooding

(37:58):
individual.
Yeah, very kind of Wuthering Heights Heathcliff, but with a sense of humor.
for sure.
And I also I wanted to talk for a minute about the name of the ship, the Bumbo, which soin Quint's ship in Jaws is the Orca.
Well, it's a predator of the Great White Shark.
I got it.
All I can think of here and I was was I was wrecking my brain.

(38:20):
was like Bumbo was the character of Natty Bumbo from James Fenimore Cooper'sLeatherstocking Tales, the most famous of which is The Last of the Mohicans.
wow.
And I had an English teacher in high school who would talk about them.
She didn't like to teach the books because she didn't think they were very good, but likethey were important.

(38:42):
And she would occasionally like imitate the character of Natty Bumpo from the final book,The Prairie, a character who chooses his own place of death.
He like journeys out into the prairie, lies down for like a couple hours or something.
And then

(39:02):
You know, sits up, says, here, and then just dies.
And I had an English teacher who imitated that to great effect.
That's amazing foreshadowing if you know that.
But even I had to think about it.
I kind of then cast myself back to Mrs.
Kiac's English class.
I'm like, oh.
So yeah, think that's the only thing I could think of was otherwise, the hell's a bumpbow?

(39:26):
clue.
Chekhov's Bum Po.
And clearly, know, as much as uh Rachel's feelings for uh Nolan are kind of ambiguous andconflicted, uh Nolan's feelings for Rachel are not.
Because he looks at her like Alex looked at Dan in Fatal Attraction.

(39:49):
So yeah, Rachel tells Nolan that he won't be able to capture an orca, but that he mightbutcher one or more in the attempt.
Is there any way that I can make you give up?
Well.
There's one you might try.
But I suppose that's out of the question.
So that's what it'll take.

(40:09):
If you're so sure I can't catch a killer whale, why are you so upset?
Listen, you won't catch one, but you might butcher a couple of dozen in the attempt.
that's not my style at all.
So you refuse to quit?
That's not my style either.
Especially when a pretty and intelligent girl like you tells me that I'm dumber than afish.
And this sequence, which is kind of the main part of Act One, is...

(40:35):
It is simultaneously horrifying, it's insane, and at times it's almost totally absurd.
Like, I couldn't believe I'm watching this, and I could not believe what I was watching.
It's wild.
It's gruesome.
It is heart wrenching.
Yeah.
You can't, like you don't want to watch, but you can't look away.

(40:58):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Like it's just like, so they find some orcas, Nolan fires a harpoon, he injures the male,and then spears into the female.
And he takes a chunk out of the male's fin, so we'll be able to recognize that whale forthe rest of the movie.
But the screaming here from the orcas, good God, it's horrific.

(41:21):
Like it's really upsetting.
And to be contrasted with at the beginning of this, when they spot that pack of whales,Richard Harris's performance, mean, he has like this absolute insane joy.
he, know, for the mayhem he's about to, you know, to wreck on these poor whales, not thathe knows the full extent, he just, wants what he wants.

(41:48):
And then to end with like the anguish in the sequence of the whales.
I mean, it is it's really affecting um in in something that is kind of, you know, totallycrazy on top of it.
is.
I honestly could not believe what I was watching as I was watching it for the first time.
Oh my God.

(42:10):
Like the female is hurt so badly.
She tries killing herself on the ship's propeller and there's like blood in the water andthe whale is screaming and they hoist the female up next to the boat and she's huge.
mean, she's got to topple over the boat it looks like.
My, yeah, and apparently this was an artificial rubber whale that was used for the scene.

(42:32):
They did not do this to a real orca.
Thank God.
But they have like the orca hanging off the boat.
And just as you think it couldn't get any worse.
It really does.
The female orcas fetus spills out of its body and onto the deck of the ship.

(42:54):
Guys, I was really not prepared for that.
Yeah, it's shocking.
It's one of those things I've never, I'm trying to think of the last movie where I justsat there open mouth, like I couldn't believe what I was watching.
And the whole time that she's hoisted up there on that hook, hanging off of the ship, theother one is watching and they kept the closeups of the eye, which is something that's

(43:16):
gonna be a thread throughout the film.
And you're seeing the sadness and it almost like tears, which I don't know how real thatwould be, but the way that that whale is watching its mate strung up there, and it's not
attacking at this point, it's bearing witness to this horror.
It's like a real life scenario of someone being kidnapped and murdered in front of theirlove.

(43:44):
And then when the baby thing happens, it ratchets it up so far in just an instant.
And you see that fall on everybody that's on the boat at the same time.
mean, everyone just sort of freezes and stares just like we are.
Well, I mean, the people on the boat were not prepared for that and admittedly arehorrified.
Like nobody was looking for that to happen.

(44:05):
Although the only one who's not horrified is Keenan Wynn's salty sea dog a-hole Novakwho's kind of like, whatever.
know, and then he gets, Nolan gets the fire hose and like, you know, sprays it over theside and Nolan's like, whatever, it's gone.
Like, I'm like, you suck, man.
It's so gnarly when they're hosing the orca fetus over the side.

(44:28):
It's just like, just pour salt in the wound, right?
Oh my God, I, it was shocking.
It was really shocking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
I, yeah, it's, is definitely pre temple of doom PG for sure.
But, what I find so telling besides how shocking this whole thing is, is that for Nolan'scharacter, he's clearly very affected by this, you know, beyond not expecting it.

(45:00):
He's clearly shaken, but does it cause it does change his actions, but not necessarily ina positive way.
I mean, he hoses.
the fetus off and then, um, you know, he's going to cut her loose, uh, eventually here.
No, not right away.

(45:22):
Yeah.
But the, does this give him the kind of pause to maybe, you know, stop hunting whales?
No, if, if, anything, it's almost like the cost of this moment means that he has to getone now.
Right.
Uh, it's never really articulated, you know, in, words as such.
But it feels that way.
Like he's already he has too much guilt to at least not get the prize.

(45:46):
Don't let it be in vain.
Right.
you're in for a penny at this point.
But on the way home, the male whale starts attacking the ship.
It's banging on the hull, the bottom of the hull.
like, first they don't know what it is, but it's banging on the hull.
And finally they cut the dying female orca loose and drop it into the water.

(46:09):
And just as they think they're clear of it all, the male orca jumps out of the water,grabs
salty sea dog, a whole Novak in his jaws and pulls him under.
It's incredible.
And it's fast.
Yeah.
oh
It is!
that thing is quick!
Holy shit, Dicker Barnes is going under!

(46:30):
I love the lights they use.
That's one of the cool visual things to make the orca that much more like a kind of like aotherworldly almost Avenger, kind of an angel of death.
Yeah.
And the thing they use these lights, either a bright white spotlight or red lights.

(46:52):
It seems like they're probably just supposed to be lights from the boat.
Yeah, I think they are.
I think they are supposed to be the lights in the boat, but it has an effect of being likethis thing is like, I mean, the things that this whale is going to do in pursuit of its
vengeance.
It's amazing.
And again, this is a movie only an independent producer like Dino De Laurentiis couldmake.

(47:16):
mean, guys, can you imagine going into a studio meeting and pitching that first act tosome guy behind a desk?
They look at you like you're nuts.
They throw you off a lot.
Be like, what?
You're gonna do what?
You're gonna see what?
So you want to give us another Jaws, but Jaws is the hero.
Like, yes.

(47:38):
Which is actually brilliant, but no studio would do.
Like that's why you needed, you know, Dino De Laurentiis who could just be like, yeah,that's what I want to do.
I mean, and I want to unpack this a little further because like, I want to know how we gothere.
Like Dino De Laurentiis sees Jaws.
He says to Luciano Vincentini,

(48:01):
almost literally get me another Jaws, but with a fish bigger and badder than a GreatWhite.
But there's not much in the ocean that's bigger and badder than a Great White, except foran orca.
One problem.
Orcas don't attack people.
There are apparently no recorded human fatalities from orca attacks in the wild.

(48:23):
So what does Luciano do?
He gives the orca a beef.
Like, it's amazing.
He gives the orca a reason to hunt and attack these particular humans who murder his wifeand unborn child.
This is how we end up with Aquatic Paul Kersey.

(48:44):
It's so incredible.
It's so incredible.
And this could and you're right, this could never happen again.
It's still crazy to me that it happened then.
And I I can't even imagine what folks who fell in love with Jaws thought when they said,oh cool, another animal attack movie.

(49:05):
Yeah.
And then showed up for this.
Imagine going to the movie theater in like the summer of 1977.
Oh, hey, I love Jaws.
Oh, this is going to be another Jaws.
OK, great.
Oh, my God.
You know how they have like audience reaction videos?
I would have given anything to have like a, you know, in the dark camera, like, you know,on the audience of Orca for that first tag, who just thought, hey, we're going to see

(49:34):
another Jaws.
OK, unbelievable.
Yeah, you think you're getting smile you son of a bitch and really you're just getting ason of a bitch.
It's a hell of a thing.
Like, I we're all rooting for the whale.
Let's just, I just want to make sure.
We're all on the side of the whale.
yeah, and I can pity the Nolan character.

(49:56):
Yes, especially as the movie goes on.
I can pity him.
I can have empathy for his tragic backstory and I see that he is contrite.
He feels regret.
But.
But.
This orca was wronged.
No shit.
This orca was wronged.

(50:19):
Like, for real.
And it's just amazing.
Like, we have that whole sequence after this where the orca is pushing its, like, deceasedmate along in the water.
Like, it eventually pushes it up on, pushes her up on shore.
Like, it is just heartbreaking.
it goes on.
And that's one of the things that the movie does is it really sits in these moments togive just you can't ignore it.

(50:46):
can in so many movies when there's something horrible happening, you can turn away.
the emotional weight of this is the real horror here.
And they make you sit in it.
And because they keep doing different angles, there's the sort of POV shot from what wouldI guess be the dorsal.
Yeah.
As the as it's pushing the along.
pushing her along and the way it plays out for so long, think just squeezes everything outof the audience.

(51:12):
I mean, it's really, this movie is not what I expected.
And I can imagine it was not in the expectation of the audiences in 1977, my goodness.
So we're also, this is around the time we're interested to Will Sampson's character,Jacob, an indigenous person who tells Nolan that the orca is coming for him.

(51:36):
And if I were you, I'd stay far away from his territory.
And we get that there's like a, we don't even see the funeral for Novak because who cares?
That guy sucks.
But after the funeral, Nolan has a conversation with a priest asking if you can sinagainst an animal.

(51:58):
What I was mean and trashy like.
Can you commit a sin against an animal?
You can commit a sin against a blade of grass.
sins are really against oneself.
You understand?

(52:27):
Thank you, Everett.
So clearly, Nolan feels remorse from the get-go for what he's done.
He did not go out intending to butcher this animal.
From the orcas point of view, I don't think it really matters.
But he does feel bad about what he's done.

(52:50):
Absolutely.
But he, mean, this is also the part where you're going to get the classic horror movietrope of a million warnings, right?
He got one warning early from Rachel, but it wasn't really about him.
And he, if he had just walked away, you know, uh, how many people would live and you know,it's, that interesting thing of someone who thinks they want to do the right thing, but

(53:13):
they just can't do it.
Yeah.
And this church scene here with him asking about it, you know, I, number one, it's my,that two shot where he is talking with the priest and they're kind of both in profile,
like each on one side and you have, think the nave down in between them, which is likethis separate visual separation between them.

(53:35):
You're doing a, you're doing a, he's Catholic, you're doing the confessional, right?
Yeah, yeah.
And it's, but it's not enough to move him.
But that's like, I think actually my favorite shot in the whole movie is that I just lovethe way that it's framed.
But it also just tells that story of however close he is to maybe, you know, trying toactually reckon with this.

(53:58):
just he's not going to.
No, and I love, I mean, we could really, could really dig into this, the way thatmasculinity is being played with here.
Oh, sure.
Kind of a man's man, a working class guy.
It's clear that he's, you know, doesn't have a lot of education.

(54:20):
He works on a boat.
He doesn't know what monogamous means.
Absolutely.
And a lot of times when he's confronted by different characters that are giving him thesewarnings or questioning him about his idea about continuing to try to get the whale or not

(54:45):
wanna leave the town, he always plays it off very nonchalant, kinda uses a joke to diffusethe situation, acts like he doesn't care.
He's Irish, he has a sense of humor.
He uses that.
And and, know, the kind of this man's man, I'm not that affected.
And then we get to see those moments like in the church with the priest, where you or weget shots where he doesn't the character doesn't have any dialogue, but just the reaction

(55:13):
on Richard Harris's face that he's clearly remorseful, that he's clearly upset by whathe's done, what's happened, that he's wrestling with it.
There's like a vulnerability to the character.
that you wouldn't necessarily get in an animal attack movie.
No, no, it's not the usual for these types of movies.

(55:35):
It's a very different movie.
It's a movie, again, I didn't expect.
What a surprise of a movie.
Yeah, and and Carmeluda, you'd mentioned Harris's face at times.
And, you know, this was a guy who when he was a young man, I, you know, was pretty damngood looking.
But by this point, you see so much life on his face just from the real world.

(56:00):
And the way that it plays out here with his performance is so fantastic.
You know, just agreeing with you, you can see so much there.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, he was younger when he made this movie than I am now.
But clearly, there's a lot of life in that face.
More life than probably is in mine, for goodness.

(56:20):
Yeah, there's probably only a lot more booze than in mine.
I also want to mention that the fishing town here, it was shot in the town of Petty Harboron Newfoundland.
And I just love this place.
It's like this horseshoe bay, and you've got the houses around it.
And I just, absolutely love, I love the vibe of all of it.

(56:41):
You know, you guys, you've heard me talk about this before that in another life I couldhave had, you know, another universe, I could have had a maritime life.
My wife says that's bullshit, but she's wrong and I'm right.
And you know, I could, could have been in a town like this, living in a lighthouse orsomething.
And I just love it.
I just love this town.

(57:01):
I wouldn't hunt whales, but, but you know, I could have, you know, I could have had asweater.
yeah, thick woolen sweater.
I can't wear that sweater in Los Angeles, even the coldest day.
can't wear sweaters like that.
I could barely wear a sweatshirt for goodness sake.
It's no, but in a road not taken, I could have had a maritime life.

(57:22):
So now we enter the middle portion of this movie where the orca basically goes on acampaign to go Nolan into taking his boat out to sea for a one-on-one uh confrontation
and.
It's a little like when Apollo Creed is trying to get Rocky to fight him in Rocky II, andhe's taking out ads, calling him the stallion chicken, and doing all these things to make

(57:46):
his life as uncomfortable as possible uh in order to get him to come out to fight.
Like he starts by ramming the hulls of the boats in the harbor and putting holes in themand sinking them.
And the townspeople, they know that Nolan went after the whale.
And they don't want him around.
They think if he leaves, maybe the whale will leave too.
So we really start to see the pressure the whale is putting on him, which is amazingbecause he's a whale.

(58:14):
This orca believes in collective punishment.
Number one.
Yeah.
no, and it, it kind of works because the other fishermen are going to push Nolan to getthe F out of there.
And the things that this orca will do later to sabotage this Harbor are it is fantastic.

(58:39):
Oh my God, like Nolan goes out to the end of the jetty, like there's a red light there andthe whale is waiting for him out there, stalking him.
Like, and it pops up out of the water screaming.
is an eye for me.
I am personally invested in this whale's quest for vengeance, which is an insane statementwhen you stop and say, I was like, wait, what?

(59:04):
But it's totally like, you go whale, like I'm with you.
it's 100 % true.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
oh as the whale's screaming, like Nolan's standing there, we get two flashes.
One of the baby whale falling onto the deck of the ship, which I mean, I'll never get thatimage out of my mind.

(59:27):
So it's not like I needed a reprise of it, but also of one car crashing into another, animage that is, as of this point in the movie, unexplained.
Jacob goes to tell Nolan that maybe he should get out there and fight the whale.
mean, honestly, I'm not entirely sure of Jacob's motivations other than just to, know, getthe town back to normal.

(59:50):
that really.
he does.
Yeah.
He has a wonderful sweater and it's in contrast to Nolan's very filthy, filthy clothing.
Why is he so dirty?
I have that note!
All of his clothes are filthy!
Is he is his place full of coal?
Is he the Unabomber?
What is wrong with this guy that he lives in such perpetual filth?

(01:00:14):
Come on.
I mean, there's like point where it's like him and they're talking on the deck and Nolan'sshirt which is this theoretically was white when it was bought, it's just yeah, is he
digging coal in there?
Like what is up?
Like yeah.
It's so dirty.
And what better time to go to church?

(01:00:36):
Well, honestly, here's the thing.
His house is literally backs onto the water, which is a bad idea given that now a whalehas got a beef with him.
And we're going to find out how bad of an idea that is.
He's sharing his house with Paul and Annie.
Her leg is in a cast from the last confrontation with the whale, which doesn't stop herand Paul from making out.

(01:00:59):
You know, like at one point he opens the door, they're making out.
Okay, sure.
Closes the door.
It was the 70s.
mean, it's not quite Tinturera, you know, where everybody...
God nothing is.
Accept that movie.
Very easily avoidable.
But I did notice there's one, this is so weird, in Nolan's house, like on the mantle.

(01:01:27):
And this is so 1970s.
There is a picture of a woman, it might've been Bo Derek, I couldn't tell, who is in scubagear with no shirt.
And I'm just like, you have that on your mantle.
Like that's, indeed, saucy scuba.
So there's an interesting scene where Nolan is setting up a dummy.

(01:01:47):
with his clothes.
These were probably the, I'm sure he didn't wash them, know, clothes at like the end ofthe jetty, you know, hoping to draw the whale in and he's got a rifle with him and Rachel
comes down and talks to him and they kind of have a heart to heart here.
I brought this gun to shoot him.

(01:02:08):
Yes.
Yes I did.
But I knew when I came to do it, I couldn't do it.
So I got to thinking and I thought well, if what you say is right, that Wales cancommunicate.
Well then I thought I'd look at him right in the eye and I'd tell him that the killing ofhis wife and his child was a terrible accident.

(01:02:38):
But I didn't mean it.
I didn't mean it.
I tell him that I was sorry.
I understand what that whale is feeling.
Because the same thing happened to me.

(01:03:03):
My wife was pregnant, she was driving to the hospital alone.
A drunken driver came down the wrong side of the road and hit her.
He killed her.
And he killed my baby.
It's clearly dredging up deep feelings for Nolan, even though he was the aggressor in allof this.

(01:03:23):
But he does feel bad, you know, on account of all of this.
later on, he actually says, like, I'm its drunk driver.
Like it's.
This movie is amazingly dark and complex in its emotions.
Very, very layered.
lot of gray areas, a lot of conflicted emotions.

(01:03:43):
It's got all of that.
really does.
It's really amazing.
Here's the here's the poster quote.
The only thing black and white in this movie is the killer whale.
Yes.
I love it.
That's...
There you go.
Even more amazing, the Orca continues up his pressure campaign on Nolan by blowing up thelocal oil refinery.

(01:04:07):
oh
That's so crazy.
I want to point out again, he's a whale.
Now, I think blowing up the refinery doesn't quite do this.
No, it doesn't.
That's the thumbnail.
need to break this down because we see Nolan and some of the other characters are I thinkthey're like on the other side of things right and you go what's what's our killer whale

(01:04:33):
doing on this other side and the whole all of a sudden you see like the pipe one of thepipes like way above the the water line.
Right, but down near the water, like near the the do-
Yeah.
And the whale busts the pipe first, but that doesn't blow stuff up.

(01:04:54):
The whale knows that that's just the fuel and then it goes and essentially knocks oversome other house housing or whatever.
thing that starts a fire.
Yeah, what happens is there's open flame in this.
Everything is very dry here, except for Nolan's filthy wet clothes.
so inside one of these shanties that are haphazardly mounted right above the water,someone is not there.

(01:05:20):
There's no one present, but there's an open flame.
And when the architect Orca figures out that the first pipe that it burst in its study ofcity planning,
That wasn't the one.
It's time to find that open flame that must be in here.
That thing being knocked over is what initiates the fire.

(01:05:40):
And it spreads in a way...
Comically fast.
And then you get these wide shot of the fire just burning across everything in view.
It's incredible.
And then of course, explosions.
Yeah.
And everything else as the orca has a virtual orgy in the water flipping and flopping andslapping its tail around.

(01:06:08):
it is the, it is, it had the best orgasm.
celebrating.
oh
celebrate, absolutely!
Well, and this I have to call back to uh Rachel's uh college talk, right?
Where you have that whole thing about the whale sounds you're now hearing and the certainwavelengths and they, you know, there's, you know, the sounds were analyzed by computers

(01:06:33):
at Caltech and they were like, they were found to contain 15 million pieces ofinformation.
The Bible contains only 4 million.
there's that whole thing about how
Such a great lie.
It's kind of like Day of the Animals, like we're challenging God, and here we'rechallenging God again.
Yeah, it's amazing.

(01:06:54):
It is absolutely incredible.
At this point now, it's blown up an oil refinery.
So the town is like, they're all going to work together to repair Nolan's boat becausethey want him to get the hell out of there.
And it's interesting, you have a similarity with Jaws.
In both of the movies, the town is worried about the economic impact of this creature'sactivities.

(01:07:18):
But here they place the blame squarely on one man.
Because guess what?
He fucking deserves it.
Right, this is a personal vendetta.
Exactly!
You get out there and you take care.
You brought this problem on us, pal.
You get out there and take care of it.
And that's just another Jaws reversal where in Jaws, the town doesn't want to believe inthe danger.

(01:07:38):
Right.
Because it's in their economic interest to do so.
And here the town totally believes in the danger because it's in their economic interestto do so.
Also, they're right.
They should be afraid.
Back at his house, Nolan gets a phone call telling him the boat will be ready at dawn andhe's going to hunt the whale.
And basically with the implication of, we're going to fuck you up if you don't go outthere and hunt that whale because you brought this trouble on us, buddy.

(01:08:06):
He tells Paul and Annie, Annie's still got a broken leg to get out, that he's going to goafter the whale alone.
And then he calls Rachel, who tries to talk him out of going.
And...
Nolan starts having second thoughts.
Well, maybe I won't go.
Maybe I won't do this.
But what does the orca do?
Orca knows.

(01:08:27):
Orca knows that Nolan is maybe having a moment of pause.
Well, orca is going to fix that.
So, the house which is backed up against the water is terrible if you have a whale archnemesis.
Because this whale is going to take down that house like he's Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon2.

(01:08:49):
Like, it is coming down.
He is slamming the whale, slamming into the pilings.
It's one of the most amazing things I've seen in a motion picture.
This orca is just bringing this house down.
And I wrote down, my note was, do it, orca, do it.

(01:09:12):
And admittedly I wrote that down before I realized the next thing the orca was going to dowas bite Annie's leg right off.
Well, it broke it broke a glass first.
Well, you
to do that, you know.
Hey, she's maimed that she lives.
Yeah, but what's weird about that moment for this dramatic score that we have throughoutthe whole film, that is the most understated moment, I think in the whole movie, because

(01:09:34):
there's no musical accompaniment.
It just leaps up, chomps her legs, falls back down.
You see like stumps.
Yeah.
And there's no musical stinger.
There's no emphasis on this moment.
It's very odd.
And it all happened so fast that you're almost like, wait, what happened?
Did she wait?
And then you cut to the next scene.
Well, then you cut.
whale like swimming around with the leg in its mouth and jumping in celebration.

(01:10:00):
It is.
It's just like, know, Rob, it's what you said before, this whale believes in collectivepunishment.
He's going after anybody, everybody.
It's a 70s revenge film.
and a seventies one up, right?
If Jaws was going to destroy the little tiny orca boat, this orca is going to take out awhole damn house.

(01:10:23):
Exactly.
It is one upsmanship.
Uh, it's fantastic.
oil refinery.
Yes.
And Nolan has like flipped out like he's going on.
He's like, he's got that, you know, you revengeful son of a bitch.
Like it's, and this is where we really start to see a turn in, in Richard Harris'sperformance, because some of the joviality that we saw earlier is being stripped away to

(01:10:49):
this sort of really kind of like bittered man.
It's, it's, it's again, I think
His performance is really extraordinary in this movie.
And it's understandable why he would assume that the orca understood English.
Yeah.
Because the orca understands pipes.
understands city planning, pillars, all of that stuff.

(01:11:10):
They're the most intelligent.
Didn't you see their brains?
That's right.
So many folds, all the folds.
And so it makes sense that he would be trying to have a conversation with you.
Honestly, in his position, I probably would have too.
So Nolan is going to go out on the, on the, on the bumbo.
Name is ridiculous.
Nolan's going to go out on the bumbo after the orca.

(01:11:32):
His crew consists of Paul, Jacob, Rachel and Rachel's assistant, Ken.
Guys, this poor fucking kid.
Like this kid just wanted to be a TA for extra credit.
He thought he'd be grading papers.
maybe recording a little whale song, but here he goes, you know, on this mad quest and itis not going to go well.

(01:11:59):
It is not going to go well for him.
But like, honestly, this crew that he assembles, I'm still not a hundred percent sure whythey all go.
like, I'm the motivations in particular for Jacob.
I'm like, why are you going?
You want to see that he goes, but why are you going?
it's not explicitly stated why.

(01:12:19):
I've always thought that maybe it's their concern for Nolan, although they haven't.
mean, none of these people have known him for very long to have formed a really deepconnection, but maybe because he's just so broken.
I see that with Rachel.
I can see that with Rachel.
She says that.

(01:12:40):
She says that in the voiceover as we see the ship leaving to make its way out to sea.
Her voiceover is saying that she wanted to protect him from himself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great job, lady.
uh I do love as you're going out, uh you see the wrecked house on as as as they're asthey're sailing out to sea.

(01:13:02):
I love that the whole town as they're as they're swimming out of the boat is pulling outof the harbor that the entire town is watching them go.
All of them, everybody in this town has come out to see it's amazing.
They're all standing on that one section there.
it's, it's man, like if the Orca really wanted to get, he could have wiped out that wholetown in one chomp.

(01:13:28):
Like they're all clustered together.
So I, I, do have a question for Rachel because I, I questioned her choice of wardrobe onthis voyage because at one point she's got a skirt on.
Like I think there's leggings underneath, like maybe I think slacks might have beenbetter.

(01:13:48):
Like, you know, maybe jeans if you're, you know, if you have like it just there's timeswhere she's like down in the hole, like with a tank top on them.
Like, aren't you cold?
And you know, this was a picture made by Italians because no one's got a bottle of J and Bon the boat.
Shades of every Giallo movie we have ever seen.

(01:14:09):
Anyway, so they encounter the whale.
at the spot where its mate was killed, and Nolan starts lighting sticks of dynamite, whichRachel tries to grab, goes flying across the deck, wall lit, she barely gets it overboard
in time, and the whale starts waving its tail, indicating that they should follow him.

(01:14:33):
It's weird that there's no damage to the boat from that because the explosion is huge.
Yeah.
And I was like, okay, the back of it is blown out.
Maybe I don't remember this part, but no, the boat's fine.
It doesn't have any kind of impact on the boat at all.
yeah, when then the whale, once again, is just being cute and waving and doing all kindsof little tricks out there.

(01:14:54):
And by the way, throughout the whole thing, anytime they cut to an underwater shot of thewhale, it is so clearly in a tank.
Yeah.
The water is completely different.
made no effort to like color match the ocean tone of the look of it.
and in some of them, it's like old episodes of Wonder Woman where she would like dive offa pier and you see her in a pool with the portholes in the pool, like the lights in the

(01:15:19):
pool.
You can see the sides of the pool in some of these shots in this.
Well, that was all the stuff shot at Marine land of the Pacific.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, it's very it's a little jarring here and there when they cut to that.
Plus the the dorsal fin is very different from shot to shot.
If it's above water, it's.
It's up, it's what do I say?

(01:15:41):
Full mast.
Yeah.
And any other time, like you normally see with orcas, especially in captivity, they'vebeen leaning over to the side.
Yeah.
So there's that too.
Yeah.
All right.
I'll get off my soapbox.
know they got you already though.
You're hooked.
True.
That's true.
That's true.
you know, who else they've got is poor Ken, who's just standing on deck, minding his ownbusiness and get snatched in the whale's jaws and kill like this.

(01:16:09):
Honestly, guys, this poor kid, like he was probably trying to figure out whether he wantedto major in Marine biology or theater and he picked the wrong major and now he's fish
food.
Yeah.
Like that's.
it.
Dire consequences.
It's just like honestly.

(01:16:30):
And we're getting into the final, the final showdown stuff, right?
I know not the final, final showdown, but this is just another difference with Jaws, whichis, know, Jaws is third act is 100 % like just like classic Hollywood propulsive, right?
It keeps building and building and building, right?
It is a boulder going downhill.

(01:16:51):
Orca is not that at all.
Um, and it's like, I love it.
It's almost like
the Italian exploitation like Tartakovsky.
It is like, you know, the sacrifice.
It's not that slow.
So don't get me wrong.
but it is so like melancholic and there's such this fate.

(01:17:14):
It feels like inescapable.
It is.
I don't know that I've quite seen like a big, you know, for, for what it was, this is apretty good sized budget.
you know, attempting to be the newly invented summer blockbuster and to see what it does.
It really is very striking.
And it's all completely because of the influence of the orca.

(01:17:36):
Yeah.
In Jaws, once they get out there, Quint loses his mind and he smashes the radio and hebasically isolates them from the world.
I mean, now you're facing his madness and the shark.
So how do you escape that?
Here, they've managed to create an environment where this...

(01:17:59):
whale is in complete control of everything.
It's directing the destiny of everybody involved.
And it, the way that that progresses feels doom laden, like you were saying, Rob, wherefrom the beginning you just sense that this is going to be bad because nothing really over
the, I mean, I shouldn't say over the top because certainly there are over the top momentsfor sure, but it's nothing that's outwardly sort of commonly exploitive.

(01:18:28):
that has gone down in this thing.
And the relationships are different than we see in a lot of movies.
They don't spend a lot of time on the relationships between the people.
It's about what's happening to them.
Like something, this thing has entered their world and now will not leave.
And in a way, there's an ambiguity to it as well, because you can't ever, you can't guessthe motive of an animal.

(01:18:54):
And so when it's waving its fin, you're like, what is this?
Oh, then they, then they take the bait.
They keep on moving through the paces, just doing everything that the, that the whalewants them to do from front to back, which is a fascinating difference than a lot of these
films, because what we talked about during Jaws was, well, what's the best way to avoid ashark, stay out of the water.

(01:19:16):
Right.
This is a completely different scenario and the madness element that was, that has beenassociated with some of the other films that we've talked about isn't necessarily here in
the same way.
Yeah, and Nolan has this conversation with Rachel on the ship where, you know, and he'stalking about the similarity between himself and the whale.

(01:19:46):
What's he telling you?
Well now, you're me, he said.
I knew, he said.
You're my drunk driver, he said.

(01:20:10):
Just to turn back now.
It's too late for me.
There's such a strong undercurrent of tragedy here.
Like he says, it's too late for me.
Like it's just as if he has surrendered any kind of agency to the whale itself.

(01:20:33):
And I always think, and I've said this in previous episodes, for me, a really effectivetragedy is one where you start to think maybe the consequences can be avoided.
I was like, maybe there's a way out of this for these guys.
But pretty soon you're like, no, this is all going down and it's going, it's.

(01:20:57):
yeah, he's resigned to his fate.
Yeah.
Yeah, he knows what he did was wrong.
He knows that he wronged this whale.
He is this whale's drunk driver and he has to there has to be a penance paid and he knowsit.
Indeed,

(01:21:17):
Totally.
Oh my god, yeah.
They follow the whale through the Strait of Belle Isle and out into the North AtlanticOcean with the weather growing colder and colder.
Icebergs appear and soon they go so far that they realize they don't have enough fuel toget home.
Most of the exteriors with the boat moving through icy waters were actually shot off thecoast of the very non-arctic island of Malta in the Mediterranean and they created fake

(01:21:44):
ice and fake icebergs and they all look really terrific for this final part of the movie.
They do establish that there's a radar station not too far away, so they could send ahelicopter to pick them up.
But again, as you said, Nolan is certain of his fate.
Paul eventually freaks out.
The further they go north, they're into the ice.

(01:22:05):
Paul freaks out and starts to get the lifeboat ready.
But once he swings it out, the whale smashes it and takes Paul down into the freezingwater.
Rachel reacts to Paul's death more than that of her own intern.
She's...
very disturbed by that.
And then she takes Nolan into her bed.
It's just an amazing conversation that they have here where he comes and sees her andthey're talking.

(01:22:30):
And the way this is shot, Richard Harris's face is almost entirely in darkness except forhis face and like the blonde hair.
And it's really amazing.
He tells her that he just wanted to make enough money off the whale to pay off the boatand move back to Ireland.
And Richard Harris, he really does give this amazing performance that evolves over thismovie from this boisterous and proud guy to this spare, like beaten, resigned to his fate

(01:23:08):
individual.
The performance here is absolutely extraordinary.
It is and you you it comes through and I think he mentions it that at this point what hereally is lamenting is that all these other people who have been killed or who are now in
danger of being killed.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, he and we also get I think it was in this scene.

(01:23:30):
It might have been earlier, but I'm pretty sure it was a scene where we get that there'san aspect of guilt he feels about his wife and unborn child, that he wasn't in the car,
that his wife was driving alone.
And so there's.
this whole other layer of the guilt, not just that he has this parallel loss, but thathe's responsible for what happened to the orca, but that he also feels responsible for

(01:23:55):
what happened to his wife.
He says to Rachel, he's like, that whale loved his mate more than I did.
he really kind of, man, I mean, he is jamming the nails in himself.
Like, it's just, it's, there's something really extraordinary in this movie and RichardHarris is at the core of it.

(01:24:23):
I mean, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong.
A whale blowing up an oil refinery is amazing, but Richard Harris's performance is reallyjust, it's incredible.
I really, really kind of, that's what happened when I was watching pieces of this movieover the last few days, we're preparing for this show.

(01:24:46):
I just, I realize how extraordinary this performance is.
And you know, you'd mentioned, and I don't know who wrote what, but you mentioned thatRobert Town ah did some, least a dialogue pass.
And this sounds crazy because, Harris is great, but some of these monologues that he and,you know, other characters get too, but especially him, I mean, it sounds crazy to say

(01:25:13):
that there are monologues, there's at least two monologues in this movie that you could doin fucking acting classes.
Yeah.
And it's Orca.
And that really is a little mind blowing.
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
So the next day, Nolan and the whale have their final confrontation among the icebergs.

(01:25:34):
you know what this sequence made me think of?
uh Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
Like in the novel and some of the more faithful film adaptations, the story ends withVictor Frankenstein pursuing his creation into the Arctic wastelands.
There's something like I was like I got a very kind of like Mary Shelley's Frankensteinvibe off of this whole final setting in the ice.

(01:26:01):
He puts aside his gun, he picks up the harpoon, he says it's going to be a fair fight,although Jacob immediately grabs the gun and demands they turn around.
Like he's he's he said to send an SOS.
I still don't know why Jacob came.
I don't know what he's doing on that boat.
Well, Jacob is there to drive the boat.
And when he drives it, he drives like Toonsis on Saturday Night Live, where he's whippingthe wheel left and right and left and right.

(01:26:25):
I'm like, Jacob, good Lord, get a hold of yourself.
You're going to hurt somebody.
ToonSys, the cat who could drive a car.
I didn't have a ToonSys, the cat who could drive a car reference on my board for thisepisode, but I love that it came.
I absolutely do.
You're welcome.
So the orca pushes an iceberg into the boat, piercing the hull.

(01:26:49):
Jacob is killed by falling ice and the boat starts to sink.
Nolan stabs the whale with his harpoon.
So Nolan and the whale each kind of inflict a wound on the other.
And Nolan falls on this piece of ice separating from Rachel and the whale leaps up onto itand it tilts the ice into the water.

(01:27:09):
it's this amazing shot.
Amazing of like the whale on one end and like it's this table of ice and it's hoisted upinto the water and Nolan's on the other end of it.
it's just like, it is extraordinary looking.
It is hilarious.

(01:27:30):
It's like it's like the shark in Jaws, the revenge that a lot of people call boner sharkbecause the whole movie, it is just stiff and straight.
And when it comes up out of the water, I think toward the end, it's just like thisprojectile, almost like if you've seen monolith monsters when the right of the big shards

(01:27:51):
come up out of the ground.
The shark comes up and that's what the whales are.
It just goes thunk on the end of it.
And it's just sitting there.
And you see it's, this is really where you see the mouth of this mechanical thing at worktoo.
It's a lot, it just kind of flops open the bottom jaw on it.
And he's sliding down to it in his quint moment.
It is truly epic.

(01:28:11):
Oh, it's incredible.
I just love, I just love that as we go into this, that he talked about this needing to bea fair fight, but this is an orca.
Six tons, 600 tons or something.
I forget what the stats were.

(01:28:32):
This is a massive apex predator.
There's no fair nothing.
It's not like, they're in the same weight class.
No, it's, it's, I mean, it's so, it's so amazing.
And as you say, Justin, this is his quint moment where he's going to go sliding into themouth of the creature, but it's contextualized in such a way.

(01:29:02):
It's just, it's like, honestly, this movie is amazing the way this all happens.
And then
You know, Nolan slides down into the water, the whale grabs him with his jaws and thenflings him across like the ice to his death.
And Nolan's body sinks down into the water in the end.

(01:29:24):
And it's basically the same shot as the shark at the end of Jaws.
There's less blood because Nolan didn't swallow a compressed air tank and blown up, butlike he sinks down into the water and it's, it is literally like the same shot as the
The shark sinking down and you have both of the initial aggressors in both films in Jawsand Orca sink down into the depths of the sea.

(01:29:51):
It that moment is the most hilarious one in the entire film.
It reminds me of when you go to the carnival and I have these rubber frogs on a platformand hand at a mallet and you the other end of it and the frog kind of flips and flops and
you want to make it land on a platform.
The way that this orca yeets Nolan across this like this, it's amazing.

(01:30:13):
And he slams into the side of an iceberg.
Yeah.
You're talking about the pitch for the opening of this film.
Let's talk about how you sell the ending.
And you're like, all right, guys, hear me out here.
We're going to flip this guy across time and space.
Who's going to do it?
The boner orca.
And he does.
He goes flailing and flying and he hits it.

(01:30:36):
And you're not sure if he's dead, but then they show you his kind of bloody face as heslides down into the water.
And my note there was Jesus Christ, movie's depressing.
Well, yeah, it is not the rousing ending of Jaws.
It's the anti-Jaws.
This movie is the anti-Jaws.
uh Put that on the poster.

(01:30:57):
It's an interesting reaction.
If you look at horror as a whole, when there's a cycle of stuff that tends to be moreoutrageous, it's usually followed by a cycle of really, well, like Saw.
What came in the Saw films, for example, in the wake of the Scream movies, which were verylighthearted and fun and whatever and colorful and young.

(01:31:19):
And then they needed to have something dirty and grimy.
And it feels like that's kind of how horror works as a whole.
Right.
Everything's a reaction to the last.
Yeah, the reaction, like we're not just gonna, we're gonna use beats.
We don't wanna remake the thing.
In fact, we wanna make something that isn't that thing.
Right.
So, and I wonder how this film would play if it didn't have the score that it has.

(01:31:45):
Cause I've owned the score for many, years and I hadn't seen the movie in many, yearsprior to getting ready for this episode.
But that adds this, there's a certain,
intense melancholy and a sort of claustrophobia to the music and how repetitive it is.

(01:32:06):
And just the instrument from the instrumentation down to it doesn't let up when there'smusic playing, there's no beats of silence.
It just goes.
And so it's dragging you kind of like the boats being led into this frozen tundra, whichis the orcas playground for these people to die in.

(01:32:27):
The music is doing the same thing and I could see the movie feeling very different if itwas scored differently, which is pretty obvious thing to say, I suppose.
But the weight and the darkness of the movie, I think the real thread is that score.
And this is where it plays out to the hilt.
No, I agree.
I agree.
It really strikes at the emotions that they want for the audience to feel throughout thisstory with that score.

(01:33:00):
The score is gorgeous.
It's beautiful.
ends in no levity.
No.
No.
No, let the there's no jovial moments.
No, there's the only levity is in watching the crazy shit like the guy being flipped offan iceberg or whatever.
I mean, that's where your moments of chuckling are.
But the rest of it, the movie itself, the story doesn't offer you a moment to breathe.

(01:33:24):
No, it is relentless, like the Orca in its campaign of revenge.
And then there's this moment between the orca and cause she survives.
And then the orca has this moment with her, which I thought was very interesting as if tosay, you're okay.

(01:33:47):
It's, it's okay.
And then going to become a real theme in this series, a helicopter comes flying by.
So we know that we know safety is on the way.
of natural born killers or princess bride, you have to leave someone alive, right?
To tell the tale.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good connection.

(01:34:10):
Right?
Absolutely.
And then the orca swims away under the ice, possibly to die from its wounds.
Like, they even make the point that, you know, it can't go too far under the ice becauseit, you know, it's a mammal, it needs to breathe air.
And then we get that end credits song.
my God.
with lyrics.
Carol Connors, my love, we are one.

(01:34:31):
uh
And the lyrics, you guys, the lyrics, rainbows in your eyes, my love, we are one.
What?
Yes.
Yes.
You just threw him across the-
It's, it's, no, it's the orca talking about its lost mate.
She's singing in the voice of the, of the whale.
If he wants to die to be one with her again.

(01:34:53):
Yeah.
That's my argument.
I'm with you.
sad.
So sad.
think maybe Nolan felt the same way, but about his family.
his family.
My god, this is a tough one.
It reminds me of the third creature from the Black Lagoon film.
I've maintained and I wrote a piece in Famous Monsters Forever ago about the threecreature films.

(01:35:14):
never seen the second or third one.
I've seen the first one many times.
Third one is the Florida theme park one.
Yes.
Second one.
this is the swamp.
Chris, do you mind if I spoil a little bit?
ahead.
I've had plenty of time.

(01:35:36):
Spoilers for the third creature of the Black Lagoon.
Spoilers for all of them.
So when the first one man enters the creature's realm, yes, box around with it, injuresit.
The creature lives.
Yep.
In the second one, man re-enters the realm, captures the creature, puts it on exhibitionand ultimately victimizing it, is what we do.

(01:36:00):
Story.
Exactly what we do to animals every day.
You go to the grocery store, et cetera.
And so we exploit it.
in part two, which leads to a battle at the end.
In the third one, the creature is burned at the beginning.
And it's an accident, but it's a haphazard thing that happens.

(01:36:21):
And the creature's gills are burned off.
They bring the creature onto the boat to study it and find that it has human lungs.
So it had gills and lungs.
And so now that the gills are burned off and non-functional,
It can only live on land.
Is it the one where it's wearing clothes?
Yes.
And they keep it in a cage next to this house and that there's this whole love trianglething going on.

(01:36:46):
And the creature, the whole movie is just this depressed shell.
Like how much more do I have to fucking go through?
And the very last shot of the movie, which is so still to me, almost absurd for a seriesthat at that point was really aimed at kids.
Cause that by the creature movie era.

(01:37:07):
of the universal monster cycle.
It was about toys and masks and whatever.
it ends with the creature breaking free from the cage, tearing up the house, and thengoing to the ocean and standing there considering its fate.
And as it's looking out into the ocean, knowing if it were to enter the ocean, it's goingto drown, it starts taking its first steps and then cut.

(01:37:30):
it fades out.
intense.
amazing.
So it begins with the creature peaceful in this beautiful place where it has thrived andthen man comes Annihilates its universe over and over again manipulates exploits and the
creature decides I'm not this I'm not doing this anymore and it just is willing to commitsuicide at the end Yeah, I can't it's orca I can't think of any other parallels to draw

(01:37:56):
within the genre that are like this movie outside of creature walks among us, which is thethird that's
my God.
It's so funny because it's not funny, haha, but it's so curious.
In some ways, I've been thinking about this movie and it's almost an ideal get me anothermovie because it was clearly made from the impulse of Jaws was a success, let's make

(01:38:26):
something like that.
Nobody's kidding themselves that it was like, oh, that was not.
how this movie began its journey.
But it evolved in such a way that it ends as something so extraordinary unto itself.
And while some aspects of it are totally bonkers, there's qualities that I found reallymoving.

(01:38:48):
And again, the more I watched of this movie in preparation, the more I was moved by itsdepth and connected to it.
It's extraordinary.
Let me ask everybody here and Carmelita in particular, when are you in the mood to throwOrca on?
So there's something that you need to know about me.

(01:39:09):
I love depressing movies.
I love bleak, somber films.
This is like one of my things.
So I actually rewatch Orca more often than Jaws.
Amazing.
Yeah.
I it makes me think of a line.

(01:39:29):
If you've been listening to this podcast, you know that I'm a Doctor Who fan.
There's a line in a great Doctor Who episode called Blink where uh the character in theresays, you know, I go to this place and it makes me sad.
And the other character asks, why would you want to be sad?
And she replies, it's happy for deep people.
It's Carey Mulligan who says the

(01:39:49):
Yeah, I watched that episode ages ago now.
I like that.
It's great one.
It's a great one.
It's a well, mean, yeah, it's it's this is this is this has been an extraordinary movie.
This has been an extraordinary conversation about it.
Carmelita, thank you so much for joining us to explore this incredibly strange, but Ifound a compelling movie.

(01:40:18):
It's been it's been a real pleasure.
Thank you.
No, gentlemen, thank you so very much.
I have to say I love Get Me Another.
Love listening.
Can I just tell you that the Fatal Attraction series?
Amazing.
Amazing.

(01:40:39):
thank you.
You've done so many excellent series, but you really outdid yourself.
Yeah
We really had a great time.
fun.
So it's a pleasure listening.
And so it's an honor to be on here and guest and meet the three of you and talk about thismovie that I love and and get your thoughts on it.

(01:41:03):
So, no, honestly, the pleasure is all mine.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You're very welcome and thank you.
And for people out there listening, where can you be found on social media out there inthe social media sphere?
we'll put it, and I know because we've been interacting for a while on Twitter and BlueSky, but where can you be found?

(01:41:26):
if you're drifting in the dark waters of the internet.
Yes, you will find me still on Twitter, also on Blue Sky, and I'm also posting what Iwatch on Letterboxd.
Same handle everywhere at Carmelita says.
just followed you!
I just followed you right now!

(01:41:48):
Multitasking, yes!
Yay!
You put together the best double features.
Oh, thank You post those double features every couple of nights.
And I'm like, they're so, the way you pair films.
And I'll admit, I think of myself as pretty good at pairing films.
And we've been doing it for the show because a lot of episodes are two movies.

(01:42:11):
But I just think you're great at it.
Absolutely.
I see, like, oh, I want
Watch this.
thank you.
I do watch them.
I don't just post ideas.
no, no, I know.
I figured it's tonight's double feature.
And it's great.
I'm so far behind on everything I'm watching.
It's like, God, there's not enough time.

(01:42:32):
It's not enough time.
But yeah, so now for us here at Get Me Another Jaws, after two episodes on the water, nextweek we are going to move to the land where I'm sure everything is going to be perfectly
safe.
We'll be looking at two movies from filmmaker William Gerdler, 1976's Grizzly, which takesthe formula of Jaws and substitutes a bear for a shark, as well as his follow-up movie Day

(01:43:04):
of the Animals, in which an entire forest's worth of creatures run amok.
It's going to be great.
Join us again next week for Grizzly and Day of the Animals.
As always,
We are your host Chris Iannacone, Rob Lemorgas, and Justin Beam.
If you've enjoyed the show, please consider subscribing and following us on Blue Sky,Instagram, threads, and Twitter, all at Get Me Another Pod.

(01:43:29):
In addition, check out the Justin Beam Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts, andJustin's book, Roadside Memories, can be found at JustinBeam.com or wherever books are
sold.
And if you've liked the show, tell your friends about it.
Tell your enemies about it.
Tell that
college kid who might be considering majoring in cetacean biology about it and then maybetell him to pick another major.

(01:43:54):
And join us next time as we continue to explore what happens when Hollywood says, get meanother.
For the

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Jaws Ep. 02 - Orca (with Carmelita Valdez McKoy)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jaws Ep. 02 - Orca (with Carmelita Valdez McKoy)