Jaws Ep. 06 - Alligator (with Erin Dawn of the Manic Movie Monday Podcast)

If you think animals only attack in the country, you’re dead wrong. 

Erin Dawn (Manic Movie Monday Podcast ) follows us into the city sewer for ALLIGATOR (1980) starring Robert Forster and Robin Riker in this film about a mutant man-eater.

Alligator was directed by Lewis Teague and written by John Sayles.

Manic Movie Monday Podcast

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
you
Hello and welcome to Get Me Another, a podcast where we explore those movies that have inthe wake of blockbuster hits and attempted to replicate their success.
My name is Chris Ayanakone and with me is my co-host Justin Bean.

(00:24):
Hey Chris.
That's all you're gonna give us?
Justin?
thrilled to be talking about Alligator today.
I love it.
I love it.
You gotta change up the formula sometime
Oh, yeah, I wanted to throw a curve ball and just see how it's like you were waiting forsomething horrible and I don't blame you.

(00:47):
Today is episode six in our Get Me Another Jaws series and the movie we'll be talkingabout today is a really interesting and unique one because the movies in this series up to
this point have been primarily set in more remote, less populated areas, whether that'sislands off the coast of New England or Newfoundland, whether it's the woods of Maine or

(01:09):
Georgia, a river in central Texas or the deserts of the Southwest.
But today's film...
brings a deadly creature right into the heart of a major American city.
Although I am still not sure which major American city that is, and we will talk aboutthat as we go.
And returning to the show to help us explore the sores of an American metropolis that I'mstill unclear on is Aaron Dawn of the absolutely fantastic Manic Movie Monday podcast.

(01:42):
Welcome back to the show, Aaron.
Thank you so much for having me.
I am very excited to talk about this because this is this is a first time watch for me andI absolutely adored it.
it's amazing.
It was a first time watch for me too, and I really, really, really liked it.
And how are things going over there at Manic Movie Monday?

(02:02):
They're going pretty fabulous.
I'm actually getting ready to hop on a plane this weekend and Hillary and I are going torecord a faster pussycat kill kill, do a live show where we're actually in the same room
together.
That's fantastic.
So, but yeah, the show, the show's going wonderful.
We just celebrated our three year anniversary and thank That's great.

(02:27):
And it went great.
And we got lots of fan questions and, uh you know, it's just, it's just such a, it reallyis such a love fest over there.
So we're very, very grateful for what we do have.
That's terrific.
I long for fan questions.
Anytime anybody wants to ask us questions, fan-wise or otherwise, we're here to answerthem at any time.

(02:52):
But today we're going to get started on this film that is capitalizing on the urban legendof alligators living in the sewers below us.
From 1980, this is Alligator.

(03:23):
alone.
looking at the one who saw it and it was big.

(03:43):
You said it was dark now perhaps you're mistaken.
would starve in a week.
kept coming up with some garbage about alligators in the sewer.

(04:07):
Alligators in the sewer?
Once it is skipped, there was no way to stop it.
No!
No!
The safety of the public is my job!

(04:36):
There he is!
attack at any moment.
seen what this animal can do.
You'd better take all the help you can get.

(05:12):
One believed it.
Now guys, before we get started, I want to take a moment.
I want to dedicate this episode.
We've never dedicated an episode before, but I want to dedicate this episode to Morris,the alligator who starred in today's film along with many, many others such as Happy

(05:41):
Gilmore and Interview the Vampire.
He passed away in May.
And while he had been retired for some years, he is undoubtedly the most accomplishedalligator actor, I guess, actor gator of all time.
And we're sorry to see him go, but he leaves behind a wonderful, a tremendous body of workthat will entertain people for years to come.

(06:07):
And I can't think of a better legacy than that.
So here's to you, Morris Godspeed.
And it's interesting that beyond Morris, quite a few of the key people involved inAlligator have done movies that we have explored on this podcast at one point or another.
This really feels like a greatest hits of get me another alumni.

(06:29):
Like the film was written by John Sales from a story by Sales and Frank Ray Pirelli.
wrote Piranha, which we just does only two weeks ago.
Sales was brought onto the project by director Louis Teague.
the two having worked together on Teague's first film, The Lady in Red for Roger Corman.
And Teague would go on to a film that we'll talk about next week, the Stephen Kingadaptation, Cujo, as well as the romancing the stone sequel, The Jewel of the Nile, which

(06:54):
we featured in our Get Me Another Indiana Jones series.
Also, the film was produced by Brandon Chase, an independent producer whose next film wasfeatured in our Conan the Barbarian series.
Albert Pune's The Sword and the Sorcerer.
And last but certainly not least, lead actor Robert Forster was starred in the Walt DisneyPictures film, The Black Hole, which we covered in our Star Wars series.

(07:18):
So as you guys could just imagine, I've turned into that meme from It's Always Sunny inPhiladelphia.
have...
You know, all kinds of things.
I have a big board and my wife is very upset because the whole bedroom is taken up by thisbig board, connecting all these people.
And, uh, and she's like, I need that out of here.
You can't, you can't keep that in here, honey.
It's too big.
Uh, so this movie had a fairly long development.

(07:40):
It was first announced by Brandon Chase in 1976, not coincidentally, the year after Jawswas released.
Chase had previously scored a hit with the 1975 Bill Rebane film.
The Giant Spider Invasion, a movie that I will go out of my way to not watch becausespiders are the one creature that bother me.

(08:01):
ah
don't worry about it.
There aren't that many in it.
It's the main spider is a Volkswagen Beetle with legs on it that runs around and chasestownsfolk.
now and now I want to see it.
mean, if it's a fake looking spider, I can handle it.
You know, you'll be fine.

(08:21):
But like, you know, real ones, it's like, God, we talked for a little while aboutarachnophobia as to wrap it up.
But we, we, we, we pushed that volume to thank goodness.
So I didn't have to deal with it.
my God.
In fact, it's funny.
Chase actually began building a giant alligator of rubber.
with an aluminum frame before director Louis Teague even signed on to the project.

(08:46):
And apparently the original script had the alligator never emerging from the sewers andgrowing to its giant size.
was set in Milwaukee and it grew to a giant size from drinking beer from a brewery, whichis insane.
There's part of me that would love to see that kind of, is this just giant drunk alligatorlike.

(09:09):
careening around the streets of Milwaukee, know, humming the theme to Laverne and Shirley.
It's just...
Schlamil, Schla-vazel, Awesome Pepper Incorporated!
uh
So apparently Teague didn't like that script, but he did like the concept and he broughton John Sayles to rewrite the whole thing, which he did in like a very short amount of

(09:31):
time.
And as we were talking about Piranha two weeks ago, this film as well, Sayles' sensibilityreally kind of shines through on this script.
Like he's got a kind of...
I don't want to say tongue in cheek, that's not quite right, but a self-aware sensibilitythat we saw in Piranha that I think is here too.

(09:52):
Yeah, agreed on that.
I love Piranha.
Piranha is one of my favorite movies.
And so I did notice there were a lot of hilarious moments in this, both intentionally andunintentionally.
for sure.
But there were just a lot of little nods, a lot of Jaws references, like crazy.
this movie basically combines Jaws 1 and Jaws 2 with all of its tropes and then makes amovie out of it, which I love.

(10:18):
uh But I really feel like
Yeah, sales writing really comes out with this one.
m
Absolutely.
In addition to Robert Forster as Detective David Madison, the film stars Robin Riker,Michael V.
Gazzo, Frank Pantangeli from The Godfather Part
That's right.
You came to me on the eve of my daughter's wedding.
m

(10:40):
He does that whole scene with Michael in the boathouse, basically in Italian.
I'm like, that's Godfather 2 was basically how, you know, any Italian I picked up isGodfather 2 Italian.
That's it, you know?
Despite the fact they took it in high school for two years.
Oh, that's hilarious.
know I took I took French for I think it was like three and a half years because I wantedto be different because I'm come from a big Spanish family.

(11:05):
So I was like, oh, no.
And and I literally can only say like, hello, goodbye.
How are you?
Is that the bathroom?
You know, that kind of thing.
But to eat from my I can order food.
That's about it.
Yeah, I have European vacation French.
uh

(11:25):
all I got.
From us.
It also stars Henry Silver, Sidney Lassack, and Dean Jagger.
Henry Silver actually is another eye actor who's peeled in a number of movies we've had onthis podcast.
Buck Rogers, Alan Quartermaine, and Lost City of Gold.
And of course, Megaforce.
Which is funny because Henry Silva is dressed like he is in Alan Quartermaine in thismovie.

(11:48):
Like he's gonna go big game hunting any day now.
Yes, he is dressed like Alan Quartermaine, is not how he is dressed in Alan Quartermaine,where he plays like the crazy, the crazy priest guy of the lost city of gold, the titular
lost city of gold.
Uh, he's way more restrained here than in Alan Quartermaine, where he is over the top ina, in in a, a fundamental way.

(12:10):
You know, over the course of this series, we've compared a number of movies that we'vetalked about to other genres.
Jaws as a slasher film, Orca as a 70s revenge movie with the whale in the Charles Bronsonrole.
And continuing with that, I'm watching Alligator and I kind of realized, my goodness, thisis part of a genre that was actually just emerging in the 80s, the serial killer movie.

(12:39):
Not necessarily the slasher movie, but the serial killer movie.
It's manhunter or.
Cobra with Robert Forster as the world-weary detective doing everything he can to stop aserial killer who in this case just happens to be an alligator.
oh

(13:00):
my God.
then Robin Riker's great.
Like she was in, was on this showtime sitcom back in the day when Showtime had really coolsitcoms called called brothers, which was really cool.
That's where I first remember seeing Robin Riker.
And then of course she's in, she's, she was on, you know, everything from, you know, emptynest to just different, different shows that she had co-starred on.

(13:23):
She's a big TV actress, like huge TV.
Yeah, she's been in a lot of stuff and she still works.
I she's still around.
there's such a great twist with her in this movie, which is one of the strangest movietwists, not in the content, but in how it's presented.
We'll get to that when we get to that.
it's such an interesting thing because it's solely for the audience and not for thecharacters in the movie, which is bizarre.

(13:48):
So I should say at the beginning, I love alligators.
There's something about them.
I think it's that they're so smiley.
They always look delighted to see you, even if they're gonna eat you.
I mean, I'm not someone to screw around and find out.
A healthy distance, but they're just so great.

(14:10):
There's something about them.
And Aaron, you're in Florida.
You must see alligators every day.
All the time, all the time.
uh We have like one of those sort of like backyard type things where somebody will postand they'll be like, alligator signing, you know, don't bring your dog to this park, you
know, like there are things we know because that's a big problem here is that people willtake their dogs to parks or places like that.

(14:36):
The dog will get loose and then the dog will get eaten.
And that is an absolute reality of living in this God forsaken hell hole that I live in.
is that we have to worry about our pets, especially with alligators.
they're, they're, you up, man.
They're really, they're not, you know, they're, they may be sardonic creatures, butthey're really mean.

(15:00):
I was in North Carolina in Charleston visiting my buddy Greg and my friends Greg and Pearlmaybe a month or two ago, it like two months ago.
And I was surprised that there it's the same thing, that there's alligators just around.
They're in the lakes in the area.
There's a small pond, actually two ponds that are right at his apartment complex.

(15:21):
And they have signs posted about being careful of gators and they get emails, blasts ortexts or something.
every time one of them returns because they go away for a while, then they come back.
And so it's very much a part of their culture there too.
And I was surprised by that, that it was uh such a common thing there.
And we went, walked around the lake trying to spot them and we saw some of them just sortof laying around.

(15:45):
And he said, the best time, the most unusual experiences at night when you go and you lookout at the lake and you see all these eyeballs looking back.
Wow.
remember years and years ago, I was on vacation with my parents when I was a kid.
My dad was golfing.
I went with him.
I wasn't really a good golfer, but I liked riding in the cart.

(16:06):
And at one point we looked across the fairway and there was a log that seemed to move.
And we said, oh geez, that's an alligator.
And we were like, we're going to just drive that cart and give that a wide berth becausewe're not going to fuck around and find out.
think the only experience I had with them was actually in Florida.

(16:26):
When we were little and we went to Disney, the hotel we stayed at was right on this kindof backwater.
I don't know what you'd call it.
Yeah, I kind of like that.
It was pretty still water.
But right by the pool behind the hotel is this lagoon.
And I remember very clearly my brother, I was in the pool and my brother starts yelling.

(16:51):
And I like over and he's like, alligator, alligator.
And he points and there's one just sort of slowly lumbering up from that lagoon toward thepool.
And so they blew the whistle and everyone had to get out.
And then they called these guys to come in and wrangle it.
And they wrapped duct tape around its mouth and kind of did this wrestling move to holdit.
And then they put it in the back of a truck and drove off.

(17:13):
I'm like, where does that go?
Where do you take that?
Yes, deep into the Okefenokee swamp and let it go.
Yeah, usually, usually it just gets relocated.
It gets relocated to a place like the Everglades, for instance, or some place where itcan't.
It's not completely near like a school or a hotel.

(17:37):
Everglade that's what I meant to say and I came up with okie finokie Is that he is that areal swamp did I make that up?
What I remember of Oki-Funoki is there was a Nintendo game called Tubin.
Two
The whole point of the game was just to ride down a river in this inner tube and bump intopeople and not hit sticks and things like that.

(18:00):
if I remember correctly, the first thing you're traveling down, the first, whatever thebody of water river is called Okefenokee.
And I always thought that was very
I you're both right, actually.
I think that is part of the Nintendo game.
So that's I don't think I don't know if that's a real place, mind you, but.
But now I don't know, I just came to my head and I was like, and the funny thing is, umand this is a confession I'll make on the show for the first time, uh I grew up uh as a

(18:28):
Sega kid, not Nintendo.
I had the Sega Master System.
So all my friends are uh Mario, I'm playing Alex Kidd in Miracle World.
What is going on?
What is going on?
To the point about relocation, I think it's interesting that there was maybe a year ago orsomething, there was an alligator, actual like a fatal attack at Disney in Florida.

(18:58):
Yep.
And I was thinking, how do they not, that place seems to have everything well, all oftheir processes seem so under, like in hand.
How do you not scour the park every night trying to make sure
you have children there every day.
It's like a feeding.
It's, it's a smorgasbord for these things.

(19:20):
they were people, how do they not keep track of that?
think if memory serves me correctly, because I remember this case, if this is the case I'mthinking of, I think that the family was staying at a hotel that happened to be on the
Disney property.
Okay.
And that that's where the attack was.
em And I'm not necessarily sure if they like scour their ponds, but.

(19:46):
uh
I know that obviously if we were talking about like, we were in frontier land and a gatorattacked you, that would be, That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
But I think it was that the hotel that they were staying at backed into a lagoon or a pondor some kind of a body of water.

(20:08):
that, like I said, if I can remember this case, I think somebody hopped over a fence.
Like, it was a situation where it was not a situation where the gator found them, if youknow what I mean.
It was a situation where somebody went over like an enclosure, not necessarily a fence,but.

(20:31):
That is very different than there's a gator on Space Mountain.
or Big Thunder Mountain or any of the mountains, the Matterhorn, although they only havethat.
Matterhorn is the oldest of the mountains and it's a little bit of a creaky track to beperfectly honest.

(20:54):
It would have been really cool to be on the 20,000 leagues ride and you see an alligatorswim by.
m
to love that ride and I'm so disappointed that it's gone.
that, that was, you know, those, those Nautilus subs were so cool.
I, like when I was a kid and we went to Disney world, I had ambitions to commandeer one ofthose subs and just sail it away.

(21:15):
Yeah, that's my favorite Disney movie.
when I was little, I was, that's why I wanted to go to Disney was simply for that.
And when I, in my article, the column that I have every month in remind magazine, I didone on the 20,000 leagues ride and its story and all the problems that they had with those
subs.
And it's a, it's a fascinating tail behind its legacy, it's something that people havereally held onto.

(21:38):
It's like the jaws ride with universal where there are real fans of it.
They're super fans.
sure.
Yeah, people are really, I know people really like it.
I, so I grew up here, which means that, you know, we only went to Disney when family cameinto town because it was like, we're going to go to Disney, you know?

(21:59):
but that was like, we never, we were not amusement park people.
We were not the people who were like, you know, like, we're going to get together and goto Disney for the weekend.
Nor were we the family who would pay, you know, thousands of dollars because
Disney people, that's a whole other conversation.
Like the people who pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to stay at these resorts and,you know, go to all of these things and skip the line and whatever, you know, it's like

(22:31):
that is a totally different animal.
So, and so growing up, no, we didn't do any of that kind of stuff.
So I haven't been to Disney World probably, I'd say about 20 years, I would say.
Yeah, yeah.
my goodness.
That's almost as long as me.
I've been to Disneyland much more frequent, much more recently, because of living outhere.
But we also, this movie also opens in a theme park of a kind, or at least some kind ofpark, as we have this family that's on vacation, and in this opening scene, which is set

(23:02):
in Florida in 1968, which, you know, it's so weird.
The opening sequence is 1968.
which was 12 years before the movie was made and the main part of it takes place.
So now it would be like having a flashback to 2013.
Yeah, that is so strange.
Time is, is, is really weird.

(23:22):
So we have this girl, she's with her parents and they're watching, guess what I would callan alligator show.
Like it's a guy handling an alligator and sure enough, that dude gets bit.
like, and that's, I was going to ask, is this, is this,
A form of populi- is this something you get in Florida?
Guys wrestling alligators.
yeah, absolutely.

(23:43):
That's a thing.
ah I'm trying to find that weird amusement park that's over there.
Is it Gator?
here it is.
Gatorland.
Gatorland.
Gatorland.
Tickets and tours.
Okay, so this is true.
This is a real thing.
And it has like a giant Gator on it.
it's in Orlando, Florida.
uh Gators and birds, Florida Panthers and wildcats, crocodiles, snakes and critters.

(24:09):
It's like a- Wow.
Sort of like sad.
a sad zoo kind of.
Aren't they all?
They are all kind of, but I guess there's degree.
There was one, I actually, another thing that I covered in my column was one called thealligator or the California alligator farm that was in Los Angeles many, moons ago.

(24:30):
And these guys moved out from the East coast with a few gators under their arm, quoteunquote, and air quotes.
And they opened this insane place that I even had to put part of one of their postcards onthe cover of the book just to show people how outlandish some of the stories are because
it was an open space.
where people wandered around among the alligators.

(24:55):
Children, get this, children would ride on them on saddles.
my god.
Look up California alligator farm.
You're going to see the images right off the bat.
I mean, that's how I discovered it.
I was, I encountered one of the postcards and I'm like, wait, what the fuck?
And I start looking into it and I realized this shit is real and it went on for a longtime.

(25:17):
And also they had them doing tricks.
They had one pond, they had a slide in it and the guy, don't know what he would use toprod them.
I couldn't find that information, but he would sort of probably get the Gators to crawl upthis.
these steps and then slide down this thing.
And in the pictures that I found of this, the other Gators at the bottom of this, who wereprobably just either freshly down the slide or just relaxing in the sun or something.

(25:45):
So angry because they're like, fuck these people and fuck everybody coming down thisslide.
You can just imagine them running into each other and stuff.
It sounds like a nightmare.
then the the main Gator trainer guy.
or caretaker or whatever, he kept getting attacked.
give it!
Over and over, he kept getting attacked and he lost fingers and he lost-

(26:07):
think he'd have a hook!
It was, it's an incredible story.
That is the last one in my book.
think that was like the 27th column entry.
And that's what I wrapped up that first volume of the book with.
Cause I'm like, this needs to go out with a bang.
And it absolutely did.
What an insane concept.
wow, that's fantastic.
No, I figured he'd have a hook like Teehee, the alligator trainer from Live and Let Die,where Bond runs across the backs of the alligator.

(26:36):
And I wonder if this was also true here, because in the movie, the souvenir at thealligator show is a baby alligator, which seems like a terrible idea.
That's bananas.
mean, so having gone to like bush gardens and places like that when you grow up here inFlorida, yeah, I can honestly say I don't think there's been any place where they're like,

(27:01):
here, take a gator home for you.
Right?
Like that said, that Gator is absolutely adorable.
Ramon, the girl names him Ramon.
And that Gator is adorable.
Like I gotta say, but you know, it's gonna grow up.
Like that's gonna happen.
know?

(27:21):
So the family drives back home and I got to, guys, I spent a lot of time in this movieconfused as to where the movie was taking place.
I thought about it a lot.
Why that matter so much?
I don't know.
uh Geography and chronology are two things that I kind of like, I don't know, get a, Idon't know, I just get a thing about.

(27:45):
like, so the opening's obviously in Florida, but then they're driving back and they passthe signs says, welcome to Missouri.
But then the canals are Los Angeles.
this movie was clearly shot in Los Angeles.
Like there are very clearly identifiable Los Angeles area.
Like there's MacArthur Park, various parts of the LA river.

(28:06):
Like this was clearly shot in Los Angeles.
And you have, they get home and on the radio or the television, you hear them talkingabout the 68 Democratic convention in Chicago.
So for a while I kept thinking, oh, is this movie supposed to be in Chicago?
And then I thought, oh, well, that's just national news.
She gets home.
She's you know, she's got the alligator in like a like a fish tank kind of thing You knownot with water in it, but just a tank but her father this fucking

(28:33):
What a dick!
What a f-
First class a-hole.
He just goes up there for no reason and just flushes the baby alligator down the toiletfor no, like no reason.
He's got glee in his face about it.
Like he's just, he's just a jerk for jerk's sake.
I'm like, and it's done.

(28:53):
Like it's swirling around.
It's got music that sounds like it's straight out of Psycho.
And I'm like, this is our alligator killer's origin story.
Poor Ramon.
Yeah, poor Ramon.
Poor thing lost and alone in the sewers of whatever city this is.
Like honestly guys, it kind of breaks my heart.

(29:15):
Like this poor gay-
Okay, did you guys have any kind of local myths about alligators in the sewer or anythingsimilar?
here.
We didn't have them in the sewers.
were just they were literally in the yard.
That was always a thing, you I grew up in the the greater New York area and you'd hear,you know, tale of alligators and the sores that kind of thing.

(29:40):
I never thought it was true, but like.
When I was a kid and saw this movie, which was probably too young to have experiencedthat, I was taking swimming lessons at the YMCA in Marion, Iowa.
oh And the Y is an older building, it's gone now, but at the bottom of the deep end isthis big, dark, foreboding grate.

(30:03):
Which I presume is when they drain the pool, that's where the water goes or something likethat.
I had convinced myself,
as a kid.
And this even interfered with my swimming lessons progress, swimming lesson progress,because I was like, I don't want to go off the diving boards.
I don't want to dive.
And my parents are like, what is wrong with you?
You, you can dive fine.

(30:23):
I'm like, I'm not going to do it.
I can't.
I was convinced that there was sharks that were going to come out of that thing or analligator.
Wow.
Existing somewhere in the bowels of the building.
And it's only access was this weak little gate at the bottom of the pool.
That is it is and I even told my brother about it and my mom got on me because I kind ofspooked him with it a little bit.

(30:43):
I wasn't trying to, but then he got a little scared about it.
And I'm like, it could be down there.
It could be anywhere.
And it's something that's always stuck with me when I drive by those big sewer pipes underhighways and stuff, kind of crane your neck and see if anything's lurking in there.
Nice.
I like that.
that's that's what this whole movie is built off of.

(31:04):
that is that, you know, kind of idiot?
it's just it's that thing of it's like my wife is always fascinated by like the doors thatyou can't go into.
Like if you go into like a random like, it's that little random door.
I wonder where that goes.
You know, like like the the the access door to a thing.

(31:24):
She's fascinated by it.
And she's like, I wonder what's behind there.
I'm like, nothing.
Right.
It's literally nothing.
crush her dreams.
that where she found you was behind some mystery door?
Who by-
It's Chris!
Cute.
With an alligator!
With an alligator!
It's not the dating game killer, it's Chris.

(31:48):
We've been walking around saying alligator like Kermit the frog in the Muppet movie forthe last two days.
Like I've just been like alligator.
So, so we go, but 12 years go by, the guy flushes the alligator down 12 years go by.
meet detective David Madison, who's buying a dog to replace one that was stolen.

(32:12):
man, Robert Forster is so.
damn likeable in this movie.
He's so down to earth.
He's just absolutely fantastic.
He is.
He's given, I got to say, you know, we were my my boyfriend and I were having thisconversation because I was like, I was like, you know, I know that John Saxon probably

(32:33):
cleaned up in the Pussy Department back in the day.
But then I thought to myself, I was like, do you think that Forrester did that?
And he was like, yeah, absolutely.
He said, but Henry Silva, not so much.
Henry Silva had a great career, going back to the Manchurian candidate and the originalOcean's Eleven, I'm sure he did.

(32:54):
But the way that he talks to the girl at the, you know, like, we'll get to this later, buthe's just like, he's like, well, you're a pretty girl.
Who are you?
whole thing, his whole spiel.
Like he's such an interesting spin on the Quint character because he is a complete buffoonand totally ineffective, ultimately.

(33:15):
I love that.
I love that he's fallible and that he's not just coming in with all the answers and doingeverything like super smooth.
He's a guy who's finding his way around this impossible scenario and that goes all the wayto the end.
There's never a moment of arrival and triumph where he's all of a sudden has this thingpinned down.
It's just a series of solving the immediate mysteries and moving on to the nextcatastrophe throughout the whole movie.

(33:41):
And he's so great.
He's so dynamic.
He really is.
sales script to you handed, but jeez, the pairing of those two is phenomenal.
It's great.
And like the continuing bit about people noticing that his hair is thinning, that was putin at the suggestion of Robert Forster.
Like he knew, he was like, the camera's gonna see it.

(34:02):
We should just hit it head on, so to speak.
And I'm like, it's such a great, there's so many great little character moments thatdon't.
have anything to do necessarily with the pursuit of the alligator, but make the world ofthis movie feel so rich and fun.
Do you have the 4K that I worked on?

(34:22):
I I do.
watched some of the special features that you did.
That was so fun and part two is insane as well, but yeah
Talk about part two at the end, we may have to come back some point and do Alligator 2,but it's, it's, my goodness.
They set Gators loose in a pond and then they then they lost track of them during part twoand they never found one of them.

(34:44):
oh It's a pond in Griffith Park and and you can see the shot in the movie where they letthat one into it.
He's like, yeah, that's the shot.
And we couldn't we couldn't find him.
We called an animal people.
They couldn't find him.
It was just out there.
And so somewhere in Griffith Park, Alligator two gifted someone a nightmare.

(35:06):
with this thing.
I'm Pat!
Or guys, now the idea for Alligator 3, which is done in like a, you know, like a WesCraven's new nightmare thing where it comes off of an alligator who was let loose during
the filming of Alligator 2.
And the way that they move the gators around in that one, was that they got them very coldbecause when alligators get cold, they just sort of stop moving to preserve their whatever

(35:38):
body heat they have.
And so they would have this ice truck that they would put the gators on.
The animal trainers did this.
mean, these are people.
Sure.
And they would bring them to set and then they would have to thaw them out with lights.
So.
They would warm them up and then when they saw them start to move, the trainer would comeover and go, all right, they're ready.

(35:59):
And then they would do the shot.
They do the scene.
And then this thing will be put back into stasis again.
Isn't that crazy?
Oh my god poor babies
oh What Detective Madison does not know is that the guy who owns the pet store, Gutschel,played by one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest actor, Sidney Lass, is responsible for the

(36:26):
missing pets in the neighborhood.
Yeah, he's a bastard.
but.
Can we talk about Sidney Lasset's like the poor man's James Coco, you know what I mean?
Like, when I was first watching this, I was like, oh, James Coco is doing this horrorfilm.
And then I was like, oh, no, it's Sidney Lasset, my bad, you know.
But he is he wants to play cruising really badly with Forrester.

(36:52):
Like he's he's looking at him and he's like, oh, a cop.
moment.
Yes, they do.
Yes.
But yeah, just the fact that he's I hated.
Oh, God, did I hate him in the him in the lab?
I Oh, my God, the lab.

(37:13):
They're the worst.
They're the worst.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
So part of, part of his, so he has been stealing dogs and selling them to slayedpharmaceutical who has been using them for research resulting in a lot of dead animals.
So part of his arrangement, Gutschel takes the dead animals and dumps them in the sewerwhere we learned that our poor, lost, forgotten alligator has been feeding on them.

(37:40):
Right.
And these animals, like, were the objects of tests to increase their size, you know, forlivestock.
And by consuming the test subjects, Ramon the alligator has now grown to absolutelygargantuan size, which makes this the third week in a row with a mutant animal running

(38:00):
amok.
That has very quickly become a theme here of from early on, not just an animal, it's amutant animal.
think it's because it's the law of one-upmanship in a way.
In Jaws, it was a simple thing where they encountered this animal that just naturallyhappened upon these people.

(38:21):
to be a big shark, but it was just a shark, ultimately.
Yeah, yeah.
there were really, there wasn't, you're safe when you're on the water.
And so, or when you're on land.
When you're not on the water.
Yeah, when you're not on the water.
So it was pretty safe for most people in that scenario.
But when you start getting into the movies in the wake of a film, I think we've noticedthroughout multiple series that there's this sense with the producers, the studio,

(38:51):
whomever.
that we need to ratchet this up some.
And how do you ratchet it up too much if it's an alligator?
I mean, one gator can't attack that many people, right?
No, we need to make it mutant and super crazy.
And then like in prophecy, the bear's this enormous mutant thing towering over people andstuff.
So I think it's just this game of let's make it bigger, let's make it more.

(39:16):
Yeah.
absolutely.
mean, you know, I mean, honestly, I'm surprised they didn't do a land shark movie.
Like the old Saturday Night Live sketch.
Knock, knock.
Candygram.
Land shark.
Yeah.
So when they, oh God, when they, when he goes down to the, uh, to the lab and he's like,why are the puppies so quiet?

(39:37):
Oh yeah.
And, and they're like, we cut the puppy's larynx out.
makes for a quieter is scenario because they were quite noisy when they got here.
And I was just like, motherfucker, you know, like I was no man.
No, these people are the worst.
are just terrible.
it's, yeah, no, the whole lab, but they'll all get what's coming to them, which is one ofthe things that makes this movie so great.

(40:03):
Everybody gets a comeuppance, I love it, yeah.
Like, and so then we have that whole sequence where Gulchel takes the dogs to be dumped inthe sewers.
And like this, the multi-level sewer set was the only one that was specifically built forthe film.
Everything else was done on location in Los Angeles in like the water and drainage systemhere in LA that, you know, the basically the LA river, which I think is an amazing,

(40:29):
amazing feat of engineering to have that much concrete.
And it's, it's incredible.
But then he like, can't get the.
dog's body to go down the sewer and just everything this guy is doing is so disgusting,both literally and morally.
I mean, you're hoping the alligator is going to get him.

(40:50):
And the alligator absolutely can.
We have that fantastic shot from like the gators POV and like as he's approachingGutsherl, like the music is very Jaws-esque.
Like it's like, oh, it's, and then, you you hear almost what sounds like a roar and it'sso great.

(41:11):
And then you get the leg popping up in the water.
It's so terrific.
my God.
So Madison, you know, he's been finding body parts at different like, you know, sewagetreatment facilities and everything.
They, they, find an arm, you know, he, finds a leg.
He deduces that the legs belongs to Gutchell because there was kitty litter in the shoe,which honestly guys, as far as detective work,

(41:35):
feels like a leap.
You
Like could have just been a cat enthusiast.
didn't necessarily have to be a pet store owner.
And if it was a pet store owner, how did you happen to know that it was the pet storeowner that you just bought a dog from who was making eyes at you?
Not more than, you know, 10 minutes ago.
But he makes that leap and, you know, hey, he gets there.

(41:57):
And then another leap is that he traces all that activity to Slade Pharmaceutical, who, ofcourse, deny knowledge of everything.
Absolutely.
So do you guys want to hear a cool story about uh an animal lab that got blown up?
Okay.
So when my partner's dad was in his 20s, his late 20s, uh he found out that there was alab and this, guess this would be in New Jersey.

(42:20):
So, cause this is the where he's from.
He out that there was like an animal testing lab and that they were performing all theseexperiments on these animals.
So he blew it up.
that's like,
amazing.
actual story that my partner told me about and I was like, that's pretty fucking cool.
And then his grandmother was like, you'll never guess what your father did back in theday.

(42:46):
That is amazing here.
Right.
Not all heroes wear capes,
It's It's true.
Very, very cool.
Madison, has a, you know, he's, good.
So they think it's a serial killer.
They think there's a serial killer operating down the sores and Madison gives a uh verycontentious press conference.
This is just, it is, there are, there is, I don't even know why they held this pressconference because nobody's getting any kind of answers, but a reporter brings up the

(43:15):
Hotel Baldwin incident.
yeah.
Which is, yeah, something.
Something when he was a cop in St.
Louis that resulted in his partner's death.
Is there any...
...murderers?
First all, we don't know that it was a murder.
Second of all, that would be evidence.
I wouldn't be able to comment on it.
Is there anything you can comment on?
Next question.
could the bodies have found their way the sewer system?
Say it again, please.

(43:35):
How could the bodies have found their way into the sewer system?
In this city, we use a combination sewage and drainage system.
Therefore, the bodies could have found their way into the system at any point.
Can you give us a cause of death in each case?
The bodies were dismembered.
waiting on the coroner's report.
Can you tell us at least if they were similar?
The bodies were dismembered.
Are you No comment.

(43:56):
Do you think would be a J.R.Ripper type killer operating in the city?
It's a little too early to speculate on that kind of...
What do you think the motive might have been in these slings?
Raise newspaper circulation.
Look, I can't do this.
As you can see, we have very little information at the moment.

(44:16):
Now if you'll excuse us, Detective Madison and I have worked...
Officer Madison, aren't you the same David Madison who lost his partner in the HotelBaldwin incident in St.
Louis?
Yeah.
I believe in that case your partner was stabbed to death, wasn't he?
Nobody's walking away from this press conference with like more information of any kind.

(44:39):
it's, it's not, it's, but like another thing about Robert Forster here, he playsexhausted.
really well
well.
throughout this movie, he just seems so tired in the best sort of classic detective way.
He has, he's like a frustrated dad.

(45:01):
Yeah.
You know, like he's like a frustrated dad of a kid that really wants to join littleleague.
And then he's forced to have to travel to places like Tarzana and he's like, well, my kidwants to join little league.
So I guess I, I guess my weekends are fucking done.
You know, like he has this very exhausted, like crest fallen look all the time.

(45:22):
Right, right.
It's amazing.
Like, even like there's this incident at the police station when a guy shows up confessingto the sewer killings and he's got a fake bomb.
And the guy's like, I'll set this off.
And Madison, like, he's like, dude, you're going to do whatever you're to do.
I stopped caring about this job last week.

(45:43):
It's so good.
And then he's got this new young partner and together they actually disarm the guy andthey realized that the bomb was fake.
So Madison and his new partner, the enthusiastic young Kelly go into the sewers lookingfor this killer.
And I'll be honest, they spend a lot of time looking.
this is a long scene.

(46:05):
And here's the thing, I am a huge fan of Kelly because that's Perry Lang from one of myall time favorite 80s movies, Spring Break.
I love Spring Break, like seriously.
um And Perry Lang plays in Spring Break.
He was also in an episode of Miami Vice.
Of course, everyone who knows me knows how much.
Right, like I'm a ridiculous Miami Vice aficionado.

(46:28):
was season five, so nobody saw it.
But know, so so when I saw Perry Lang pop up, I was like, oh, there's that baby face likehe's so cute.
And then, of course, he doesn't he doesn't last.
So.
No.
Well, part of it is he goes down in the sewer.
They're looking around and at one point Kelly just disappears.

(46:50):
Like, you think, wait, did the alligator get him?
But no, he's just fucking around.
And I'm like, what are you doing, man?
You're looking for a serial killer in the sewer.
What is wrong with you?
It's just ridiculous.
And then, yeah, they're just dicking around basically.

(47:10):
Like that's what they're doing.
They're just dudes dicking around in a sewer.
But then we get a glimpse of the Gator and it comes, like it's behind them and they likemove the flashlight a certain way and you see that behind them.
It reminded me of the shot, the shot that we've talked about on this show, maybe more thanany other single shot in cinema history of Michael Myers appearing in the darkness behind

(47:36):
Laurie Strode in Halloween.
It's the Gator.
Yep.
Yeah, it's a pretty cool, that's a pretty cool shot.
Like that when they see the big mouth open and then there's like a almost delayed reactionfrom Forrester that actually cracks me up when I, I rewound it a few times to watch.
Yeah.
like he, he, he, the Gator shows up and he takes a whack at Kelly with his big honkingtail.

(48:00):
Oh my God.
They're like, they're trying to haul ass out of there, but then they're climbing up theladder and, and Ramon chomps Don on Kelly and just pulls him down and there's nothing
Madison can do.
And he's just screaming for this kid.
He's like, he's really like,
Robert Forster is doing his work.

(48:20):
ah is.
There's emotion on this dude's face.
for sure.
And you know, like then he wakes up in a hospital bed and is told he just popped out of amanhole on Campbell Street and started yelling alligator.
And I'm thinking, well, who among us has not done that?
You know, it happens to us all.

(48:41):
But it's also very similar to in Jaws 2 when Brody reacts to literally everything in thatmovie.
I'm not going again?
I was like, you see that?
That's the eyes, the mouth.
I know what a shark looks like because I've seen one up close.
He goes through this whole thing and then he goes through those unloading bullets.
It's just blue fish, man.

(49:02):
It's just blue fish.
His, the way that he, this is treated is very similar to Jaws and Jaws 2.
It's just like, yeah, you don't know what you're
there's a section of this movie where he's the only one convinced that there's analligator there.
But he and the chief go to see a reptile expert, Dr.
Marissa Kendall, oh who takes on the role, the Hooper role of the creature expert.

(49:28):
And I'll be honest, she's one of the foxiest Hoopers in the whole series.
Yeah, she's a spicy little redhead.
Yeah.
Love her.
Love her.
She's She's great.
And she gives Madison a book on alligators.
In fact, it's her book on alligators and like he's looking through it at home and I'mthinking to myself, it's like the scenes in the first Jaws where Brody is looking through

(49:50):
the shark book.
I'm like, it's right there.
Ah, yes it is!
And I love the little exchange, like he and the chief are in the car.
uh

(50:23):
I didn't say she was normal.
said she had the word on alligators.
She had the word on alligators.
So his fellow cops give Madison a hard time.
They put a rubber alligator in his locker, which is an amazing moment.
Cause like Forrester reacts like, like no, no lie.
He reacts like Brendan Fraser in school ties when he walks in and all the Nazi memorabiliais on the wall.

(50:50):
he's just like, they just look at him and they literally just look at him like with justthis like dead pan silence.
Like, Hey, you're going to read that?
Like they, you know, they grabbed the newspaper from, mean, you know, nobody cares.
But the problem for the lack of evidence is gonna be solved by this reporter, thisreporter who I might add smokes in hospital, which I mean, I know it's 1980, but for

(51:14):
goodness sake, and he goes down in the sewer with the camera and he finds the remains ofanother dog, which is a genuinely disgusting moment.
I know that's not a real dog, but man, it was just really gross.
But he is promptly eaten, but not before snapping a few pictures.
Yeah, great value Tony Danza uh actually did serve a purpose in this film.

(51:40):
Yes, yes, indeed.
His, but like the photos that he takes, guys, they're like, they're these crazy closeupsof the, of the Gator and the eyes and like they're amazing and just honestly put them in
the Louvre right now.
And, and like the headline on the paper is like, reporter takes pick of own killer.

(52:03):
I'm like, what a great headline.
Honestly, I want to, I want to get that.
prop and frame it in my house.
It's fan-
LA Times.
oh
Yeah, exactly.
So now there's a citywide alligator hunt on and the police put all their resources intofinding the creature and they have like a SWAT team.

(52:23):
There's guys with bazookas and rocket launchers.
Again, here's a little bit more mystery about the film setting because the big map thatMadison has to organize the police efforts is clearly Los Angeles.
Like you could see Alhambra, Monterey Park, Dodger Stadium.
This is what the 4K gives you is you can see the...
The names on the map and you're like, this is LA.

(52:44):
I know this is LA.
And Dr.
Kendall joins the efforts to find the gator.
And here we get the major revelation of the film.
No, I had one once when I was little, an alligator.
I just wanted to get a call.
My father found it dead one day, though, so I didn't get to keep it very long.

(53:05):
Same was Ramon.
It's approximately a quarter of a mile south of the Actually, they're not very good pets.
Thanks a lot.
We're a kid, aren't we?
Not a kid.
Everybody younger than me is a kid.
She's the little girl from the opening sequence.
Like we knew that it was the alligator that was flushed down the toilet, but I had no ideathat the little girl grew up to be Dr.

(53:30):
Kendall.
Like here's what I love about this twist.
It is solely for the audience.
The characters in the movie never realize that this was her gator.
Only only we know.
Like I was like, like, the Gator had a weird, a weird white stripe down its head orsomething like that.

(53:53):
And she's eventually going to recognize it as her Gator.
And you can have a moment where she's like, it's you Ramon.
But no, that doesn't happen.
But like, it's such an interesting, like midpoint twist, because it's only for us.
they fail to capture the alligator in the sewer.
Like they send a bunch of guys down there and the guys are coming up.

(54:14):
think that, maybe the alligator, no, it's just the guys.
And thankfully they don't start opening fire on their own guys.
But the reason they don't capture the alligator and the sewer guys is because this gatoris busting loose.
It is it is busting out like the Kool-Aid man.
Oh
my God.
So we should set this up because like you, have this city street and there's a bunch ofkids playing stick ball in the street and there's one kid he's got the I'm a pepper

(54:43):
t-shirt.
Yes.
The old Dr.
Pepper, the slogan, I'm a pepper.
And this little asshole, like the face he gives the cops as they're driving through thiskid, you could just tell this kid's a jerk.
And there's another kid wearing a Freddy Krueger sweater.
Like, I don't know you guys saw him, like four years before Nightmare on Elm Street, thiskid has got a Freddy Krueger sweater on.

(55:04):
It's amazing.
And you have this moment where like the ground starts shaking and people kind of move awayand the alligator literally bursts through the sidewalk.
It's one of the greatest things I've ever seen.
so, it is so sublimely wonderful and goofy.

(55:28):
I just love it.
It's a great moment.
And then it's walking through these miniature sets and it works great.
does.
The shots are quick.
So you're not thinking too much about them being model cars and all that, but they reallydid a nice job with this whole thing here.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The funniest thing about that sequence when the alligator bursts up is that nobody seemssuper surprised by it.

(55:51):
Like all the kids, like there's one girl who looks just kind of mildly confused.
Like as opposed to, my God, you know, it would be enough to be an alligator walking downthe street, but an alligator bursting through the sidewalk, I'd be like, I don't know why
these people, like they're just, but they're very kind of blase about the whole thing.
I mean, they're getting away.
So the gator, causes a cop car to crash.

(56:14):
like, like the guy gets out, he got out through the door, the door stuck, he crawls outthrough the window and then the gator eats him.
Like it's just, it's like he takes his leg off as he's trying to crawl away.
And then the Dr.
Pepper kid goes up to his apartment and gets his mother's kitchen.
That was so cool because the mother like could not be bothered.

(56:37):
Mother is talking on the phone while drinking a schlitt.
I might ask.
And she says to the person on the other end of the phone, kids are outside playingalligator.
Like that's a thing kids do.
Oh, let's go play alligator.
It's not a thing.
It's not a game.
It's not a thing.
Kids are playing alligator.

(56:58):
What does he think he's going to do with that knife?
Like he's not getting, he's not taking out that alligator with that kitchen knife.
It's not happening.
Come on.
That's a great little moment because that's that's McColl McCurio and she played the momand she's the mom in flash dance and she's.
Oh my God.
she's Jeannie's mom in flash dance.

(57:20):
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Having seen flash dance one billion times.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
She's in that.
She's in gleaming the cube of the client while you were sleeping.
Like it it's kind of crazy like she but but it's such a quick.
you know, blink and you'll miss her kind of a situation, but I recognized her voice.
That's why I looked her up and was like, my God, it's Sheenie's mom, you know.

(57:41):
A quick flash dance.
I watched that movie for the first time this year.
wife and I watched it.
Oh, what?
For the very first time, we had never seen it.
Neither of us.
my.
And we loved it.
Okay, I love that and I'm gonna have you on the show to talk about it because- uh
I want to do it.

(58:01):
Yeah, I, cause I loved it.
My God, Jennifer Beals, amazing.
And there's something about that movie that I don't know what it was because it's, it'smildly plotless.
Like it just kind of, like it's just kind of hanging around.
But like, loved it.
No, it's a it's a series of very well shot music videos and I, I love it and I've beenhere for it since I was five years old and I saw the PG rated version that was on NBC that

(58:32):
my parents somehow got, you know, videotaped off of the television and I was, I've beenobsessed with it ever since.
So yeah.
Amazing.
So they go and they interview the kid.
I love the interview kid and he tells them the alligator is as big as an El Dorado.
It's as big as a car?
Like, yeah.
Specifically in El Dorado, you know, the American automobile industry at the peak of itspowers in 1980.

(58:58):
Oh my God.
So they find these huge footprints that there's around a lake that is literally LosAngeles's MacArthur Park.
And this is where we're introduced to our quint character, Colonel Brock, who was broughtin by the chief and the mayor to hunt the alligator.
And Henry Silva is fantastic.

(59:19):
He's amazing.
He's amazing.
I love him.
You know, have you ever seen Amazon women on the moon?
Is it bullshit or not?
not.
That's my Henry Silva.
Oh God, Amazon women, the moon is just another ad there.
I guess if we did get me another Kentucky fried, it's kind of that.

(59:42):
uh
That was a frequent rent when I was a kid.
My brother and I can still quote that.
Yeah, sometimes I will literally walk around the house and do the scene with CorinneAlphen and uh Andrew Dice Clay and Mark McClure.
And just like literally just to entertain my boyfriend.

(01:00:05):
He's never seen the movie, mind you.
But I will do that whole scene.
And he just starts laughing because he's like, my God.
Junior, oh yeah
Yep.
And the line, oddly the line sticks in my head.
think it's Arsenio Hall when he's gonna...

(01:00:26):
Tell my hear!
Don't live here.
I love that.
God.
then the, then the, um, and, oh yeah, I just know too much.
David Allen Greer as the blacks without soul.
Yeah.
All of it.
yeah.
yeah, yeah.
God, got to, got to.

(01:00:47):
Tonight is Amazon women on the moon.
But like Henry Silva here, like there's something so quietly unhinged about him.
it's not, it's not like Alan Quartermaine in the lost city of gold where he's ranting andraving and, like, first of all, he hits on every woman he sees.

(01:01:08):
yeah.
And there's like this bit where he's doing an interview with the reporter and he'simitating the alligator sounds.
Hi, are we live on this thing?
nice.
You're very pretty.
But we're to talk about alligators.
Well, look, alligators respond to sound.

(01:01:28):
They talk to each other, call each other.
Listen.
uh
That's the distress call of a young gator that's still his mother.
love call.
Your alligator is a very romantic creature.

(01:01:51):
It gets the itch, comes praying, and it'll give out with a sound, something like this.
Will it attract another alligator?
Well, I'm hoping so.
I'm counting on it.

(01:02:14):
Your alligator is a very romantic creature.
And she is eating this up too.
let's just.
She is?
Yeah, she's like, my God, you're so wise.
know, oh my God.
And just like what's interesting about his character and the way it figures in the storyhere is he is unlike other movies where you have a Quint character, the experienced hunter

(01:02:37):
who then becomes part of the group to kill this creature.
is, know, obviously Quint is, know, but like we've seen that a few times.
He's on his own track in this movie.
Like he's not teaming up with anybody.
He's just kind of on his own thing.
And it's,
Like it's very different, like there's very little interaction with him and the othercharacters other than this introductory scene.

(01:03:01):
Yeah, yeah.
He's not quite as smarmy as Philip FitzRoyce from Jaws 3D.
You know, Simon McCorkindale.
Who?
Oh, manimal himself, manimal himself.
know what?
He does give his life, so to speak, in order to facilitate the blowing up of the shark inpart three.

(01:03:25):
So we have to give him credit for that.
yeah, but other than that, like before then, he is hitting on Kay and just very, you know.
Simon McCorkendale again another guy probably did pretty well No for sure
Another thing I love in this scene is that we see people monetizing and merchandising theapp.

(01:03:51):
This is so Florida.
This is so this scene.
This is this scene was so Florida.
Like that is absolutely who we fucking are.
When when Bundy was going to be or was going to be, you know, uh executed, it was T-shirtsand sandwiches named after him and all kinds of things that happened over oh over in

(01:04:17):
Rayford.
And it was just ridiculous.
And but that is Florida, man.
We
capitalize off of the most trash things that happen.
my God.
got people selling stuffed alligators, rubber alligators.
guy's trying to sell a baby alligator.
my God.
we have Colonel Brock, he's hunting the alligator in the city.
He comes across a very large pile of poop.

(01:04:40):
That was something apparently John Sayles wanted to have because he grew up watching those50s creature features that we talked about when we talked about Piranha.
We're so, you know,
key to the identity of that movie.
it's here too.
But like, he's like, that's something you never saw.
you know, you'd never see, you know, Godzilla leave behind a big, a big poopy, you know,it's a

(01:05:06):
Big poopy.
shit.
I mean, of course, some years later, Jurassic Park would give us an even bigger pile ofshit.
problem, you know, a quick aside about Jurassic Park, I just want to say the problem withthat scene is Jeff Goldblum standing there and it's a funny cut to Jeff Goldblum.

(01:05:27):
But man, that would stink.
You're not just going to be standing there.
Yeah.
are you doing?
David goes poking on Slade Pharmaceutical a little too much.
So he, the owner gets his buddy, the mayor to fire him.
He gets
It doesn't seem to bother him too much.
Like he's just like, well, yeah, I always always thought I might get fired.

(01:05:47):
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, he was, he was absolutely over it.
And he was pretty much just like, it's, it's a lot less of a somber scene than Jaws 2 whenhe gets fired and he's drunk and he comes home and he, you know, accidentally calls the
other actor by his real name and you know, lots of things happen in that scene, uh, thatmake it very like poignant, right?

(01:06:10):
And then this is just pretty much like, yeah, I lost my job.
Time to go get laid.
Yeah, because he has got so much chemistry with Robin Riker here.
It is just fantastic.
And there's so many great moments, like little moments between them as their romance isgoing on.
there's the stuff with her mother, like she calls her mother when she goes over his placeand she's like, I'm going to be home late.

(01:06:35):
And the mother says, it's a school night and I love mom.
I'm the teacher.
Right.
I love that.
I love that she just has to look at him and she used to be like, I live with my mother,you know?
And it's like, hey man, I've had to do that.
I understand.
Yeah, like the romantic stuff here is so good and Forster is so charming.

(01:06:55):
Like, you know, that bit where they're talking about going to get dinner and he's like,well, you know, I'm going to be wondering the whole time if you're going to be coming back
with
Right, and then she's like, you know what, solution, we fuck first, then we eat.
Yeah, that's it, that did it.
But like, they're so good.
He's so char, like there's no, like you totally understand why Quentin Tarantino cast himas Max Cherry in Jackie Brown.

(01:07:19):
Like he has got such a charisma to him in a very down to earth way.
You know, he's incredibly charming, but you also feel like this is a guy you might know.
Yeah, yeah, he's very, he is very endearing and very charming, which which makes the scenein the diner that much more upsetting to me, which we'll get to in a second.

(01:07:43):
Get to in a second, but we have first one of my favorite scenes.
think I know what you're talking about.
The walking of the plank.
Okay, first of all, was like sitting there going, well, they're not going to kill the kid,are they?
And then when they, when they killed the kid, threw my head back and laughed because I waslike, aha, they killed a kid.

(01:08:05):
I have problems.
I had the same reaction.
uh One of the things John Sales talks about in some of the interviews, including I thinkjust in your interview with him, you know, the alligator eats his way up through the
socioeconomic hierarchy.
Yeah.
Like he emerges in a fairly poor neighborhood and now here he is in a middle classneighborhood with a swimming pool.

(01:08:31):
That's interesting.
I didn't even think about that.
Wow.
A lot of layers.
A lot of layers in this.
That's John Sayles for you.
So you have this scene where the kids, it's some kind of costume party and you have twokids dressed like pirates and a third is a cowboy.
And the two pirates take the cowboy out and make him walk the plank, i.e.

(01:08:54):
the diving board.
All right.
First, this is a bad idea to begin with.
This is not being aware of water safety.
You don't push people into pools.
This is not a good idea.
but even worse because what they don't know is there's an alligator in the pool.
Like this is Justin's nightmare.

(01:09:16):
Absolutely.
I love it though, because it is so bizarre.
It's such a bizarre scene.
The pool and the atmosphere of the pool reminds me very much of Nightmare on Elm Street 2,Freddy's Revenge.
Yes, because there's so much like, it's like steam coming off of it.
totally, it totally feels like that backyard from Nightmare on Elm Street 2.

(01:09:39):
A movie I haven't watched in ages and need to revisit at some point.
It gets a bad rep because it's sandwiched between one and three, which are both brilliant.
Absolutely, absolutely.
um But it has its own charm.
I kind of look at it as almost like a standalone in a lot of ways.
It is.
It doesn't connect.
There's not a lot of mythology connections except he's living in the house.

(01:10:03):
it.
Yeah.
But the way this scene plays out in Alligator, it is amazing because we don't know thatthe alligator is there at first either until the underwater lights snap on just before the
kid goes in the water.
So we see the gator just as the kid is seeing the gator and

(01:10:23):
Like a beat later, he's pushed off into the pool.
The two kids pushing him don't see it.
And uh yeah, that kid gets eaten.
It really is.
It really is.
And then the water like lit by the pool like turns red.
It's fantastic.
It is a fantastic.
gorgeous.
love I love pool kills.

(01:10:45):
Like, let me just say that the only reason I like the Prowler is the pool kill, like 100percent like I could.
The characters in the Prowler to me are just 18 different shades of boring.
But I love the kills in the Prowler.
And one of my favorite kills is absolutely that pool scene.
So, yeah.
Oh, that the pool scene in the Prowler is great.
I like the Prowler, I, know, it's, we've talked about it when we did our Halloween series,but you know, it's the creativity of the kills in that movie that really kind of, like the

(01:11:16):
bit in the shower, the shower scene.
em The rest of the movie really drag
So Colonel Brock, he's out doing his thing.
He's hired some kids from the neighborhood to show him around.
This is awful.
You see him come out of a convenience store with like a paper bag and he immediately handsthem like a six pack of
my god, yeah, oh lord, it's like, hey, I got some inner city youths to take a bullet forme, like, this can't be bad.

(01:11:44):
He refers to them as his bearers.
Like I guess that would be, you know, the hunting, you know, the Alan Quartermaine greatwhite hunter thing.
Like, here's the thing, it's like he comes across the alligator and we get one of like themost unceremonious disposals of a Quint character.

(01:12:05):
It's not like Quint where he goes out, you know, like friggin' Captain Ahab from MobyDick.
Here he's just walking down, we see a shadow of a gator on the wall, and then it pops outand chomp.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, it happens very, very quickly.
yeah, unceremonious for I believe that they did him dirty, as the kids would say,

(01:12:28):
the kids today.
And I want to point out, it's never dealt with in the movie.
One of the kids runs off with that gun.
That's it.
uh Yeah, Madison, we have a scene you alluded to earlier where Madison nearly blows itwith Kendall in the diner.
Yeah.
So in terms of the band 38 special, this goes from caught up in you to hold on looselyreal fucking quick.

(01:12:49):
Real, real fast,
I mean, very fast.
Like he's just, he's like, don't, you know, you know, like, don't try to understand me tooquickly.
And I jumped off the couch.
I was like, oh no, you motherfucker.
Like I was so mad.
I was, I literally wrote down on my, in my notes.

(01:13:09):
I'm like, he blew it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause like, like he learns like a couple of cops come into this diner and like, he learnsthat Brock is dead and she, she's just like, I know how you must feel.
And you know, he just gets all, you know, he just, but like to his credit, he wises uppretty.
He had an emotional moment and then he wises up pretty quick.

(01:13:32):
He shows up at her house to apologize and we get this.
fantastic scene with her mother.
Mmhmm.
Mmhmm.
She'll be down in a minute.
person just hates to get out of bed in the morning.
Oh, some days I used to go up there.
She was sleeping so peaceful.
I just didn't want to wake her up.
She'd get so mad at me.

(01:13:53):
Of course, of course, she didn't want to go to school.
And then I'd make her some cookies, and we'd watch days of our lives till Bill, myhusband, came home.
And then we would...
I've been looking all over for that rosary.
There it is.
God rest his soul.
You know what he used say to me?
Sleeping too much leads to an early grave.

(01:14:15):
Worked just the opposite for him, rest of his soul.
Do you know I have an evil eye?
Bet you can't tell which one it is.
Is it this one?
Or is it this one?

(01:14:36):
Did you like that?
What's your name?
Madeleine.
Can I give you a cup of coffee?
No, I got to.
You really make yourself at home, don't you?
Good morning, David.
Hey, Vy.
Hi.
Hi.
came to apologize.
What for?

(01:14:57):
You name it, I apologize for it.
Don't forget tonight's a school night, Marissa.
You want to see my rock election?
Kendall's mother, Madeline, is amazing.
not since Louise Lasser uh in Blood Rage has there been a more awesome, absolutelyneurotic, mommy character than in this.

(01:15:23):
God.
She's amazing.
Love her.
Made even more amazing because she reminds me both physically and personality wise of abuddy of mine from high school's mom.
Like who has since passed away, but the resemblance, uncanny.
Love that.
It's amazing.
She's painting a self-portrait.

(01:15:44):
Like you see like a self-portrait on an easel of her.
it's amazing.
Like it's just such amazing.
Like what a great little quirky bit.
to put in and they never refer to it.
It's just like you get the whole thing with the evil eye.
It's so good.
It's so good.
Love it.
And his apology is great.
He's got a great apology, you know, to, to, to Dr.

(01:16:05):
Kendall.
And the next day they go out after the alligator and they're talking about how to kill it.
And she says, like, maybe we could bring my mother and have her talk it to dad.
And the cops find the alligator in a lake and they shoot out from a boat.
You get the whole boat scene, which is fantastic.

(01:16:25):
Like they end up running over the alligator.
They send the boat flying into the rocks and some grenades detonate, blowing the wholething up.
It's like it's that I said to I said to my partner, I said it is total Sardaris level ofgrenade work.
yeah.
This movie.
Absolutely.
It's like it's this isn't a Roger Corman movie, but this is a scene straight out of aRoger Corman movie.

(01:16:49):
It's like the scene in Piranha where the boat that's pulling the water skier ends up likecausing all kinds of mayhem on the lake that are not directly connected to the Piranha.
Yes.
And then one of the cops in the water, the alligator goes for him and you see them pullhim up and both of his legs are gone.

(01:17:10):
Yes, yes.
That was done apparently using a stunt person who was a double amputee.
Yeah.
Oh, that's interesting.
have to tell my, my, my, people who listen to the show know this, my, partner's anamputee.
So that is going to be something I tell them because I remember when they pulled the guyout of the boat, he was like, Oh, okay.
You know, but he didn't know if that was like, if they just tied his leg, if they justtied the pant leg or if he was an actual amputee.

(01:17:37):
that will be very interesting.
He was.
This was many years before Forrest Gump would do it all digitally with Lieutenant Dan'slegs.
So, everything we've talked about in this movie so far is leading up to what I'm going tosay and I'm not, guys, I'm not going to sugarcoat this.

(01:17:57):
I'm not going to downplay it.
Everything is leading up to one of the greatest scenes in movie history.
the wedding scene.
wedding scene.
So good.
Yeah.
As I mentioned before, like the alligator is eating his way up the social ladder.
So he reaches the top at this fancy wedding of the daughter of Mr.

(01:18:19):
Slade, the owner of the pharmaceutical company that started all of this.
And this is just, I mean, this fancy outdoor wedding.
like, there's so many weird moments here.
Like Slade is there manning the grill at his daughter's wedding?

(01:18:39):
Yeah.
He's actually grilling steaks and the mayor's there and it's like, it is bizarre.
And then the alligator appears and oh my.
Amazing.
What a beautiful revenge sequence.
Like, yeah, everyone's getting, I mean, there's bloods being, you know, spilled and themaid gets eaten and it's just crazy.

(01:19:05):
Also, Slade is old as fuck.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's people getting eaten, people getting knocked with the tail.
guy goes straight through the wedding ca-
That was so good.
So good!
Well, you've got a cake there.
What are you going to do with it?
You got to do
You got it.
know, like it would be cinematic malpractice to not have someone going through that.

(01:19:29):
And then and you know like the groom who I think works for Slade He was the guy who cutthe larynx is like it's it's the guy from the lab who's marrying Slade's daughter He gets
eaten.
Yeah, which is just is fantastic Yeah, no fuck that guy and and and then Slade locks thebear out of his limo and the Gator grabs him He's like slamming him against the column

(01:19:55):
And then finally, the giant alligator just crushes the limo.
Yeah.
oh
It's a, it's a commentary on having just left a corporate job.
Like, let's just say that having, having left a corporate job, I can honestly say thatthat is the perfect metaphor for, my God, this person who's made me so much money is
trying to get into my, is trying to get into my limo and I'm going to watch him die andhave his brain splattered against my limo and then hopefully get eaten by the thing that's

(01:20:24):
doing it.
You know what I mean?
But yeah.
But he's going to get crushed inside the limo.
The whole thing, it is just sublime.
If you're out there and you have not seen Alligator, first of all, I highly recommendAlligator, but just go, you can find this scene on YouTube.
Just type in Alligator wedding into YouTube and you will find it and it is just amazing.

(01:20:49):
And anything else you find outside of this is probably great too.
Alligator wedding.
Is it alligators getting married?
Is it an alligator officiating a wedding?
Like, you know, the possibilities.
I'm in no matter what.
I'm in.
Yeah.
It's gonna be a win.
No question.
No question.
So Madison and Kendall, they arrive, they follow the alligator back to its lair.

(01:21:12):
He brings the timer and some dynamite from the, like the bomber, the fake bomber earlierin the movie.
He's been carrying that around for a while and he sets the bomb as the alligator is comingafter him, but is delayed from getting out of the manhole because this woman has parked
her car on the manhole cover while there's a, there's like a, there's a garbage truckthere and it's just like,

(01:21:35):
It's what you said, like there's no, there's no like, it's not quite a triumphant moment.
The final climactic beat is his escape.
He's not, he's not taking the alligator out.
It's not, it's not smile you son of a bitch.
Even though you both, in both cases you have an animal that's blown up.
It's, there's something more of I'm able to get this thing done and then just run awaybefore it, before it takes me down.

(01:22:01):
Yeah.
Now, did you notice, Justin, I wanted to ask you this because I'm sure you've seen thismovie a lot more than me and Chris have.
But did you notice that there is an old man in a row with a walker in the background whenthey go to enter the actual when they actually go to enter the sewer?
Oh, my God.
OK, so I'm the only one who fucking knows that.
All right.
So there's it like and it's like and it's not a blink and you'll miss it kind of momenteither.

(01:22:25):
It's like you need to be paying attention to the background players, if you will.
But there is an old man.
in a robe, shuffling slowly across the street with a walker while Robert Forresterattempts to enter the sewer.
It's so good.
I was like, man, this movie is amazing.

(01:22:46):
Oh, yeah.
oh I back and watch that as soon as we're done.
that's a- That's life.
To quote boogie nights, sometimes there's shadows in life.
in life, babe.
Well, there there's lots of little moments in this that are funny like that.
Like when they go to the alligator experts place, I think it was and David David Forster,Forster playing David goes to sit down on this counter and he bumps the It never turns

(01:23:20):
into anything.
It's not like it doesn't become a bigger moment.
It's just allowed to be that.
Yeah.
And I think it's those little things, those little touches that are so great that Lewischose to include that.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And then, know, Kendall, you know, she shoves the woman in her car, she just gets it,shoves her aside, pulls the car back and the alligator blows up spectacularly.

(01:23:44):
But down in the sewer, we see another baby alligator emerge from a pike.
So you never know, alligator too.
And a couple of like, Brian Cranston was a production assistant on this film.
He was part of the team that rigged the foe alligator to explode and he had tells thisgreat story about if you have the the the get the blu-ray or the 4k uh You know that some

(01:24:11):
of the special he tells this great story about being in the crew band van with RobertForrester and talking to him and you know how he took a real interest in what he was doing
on the crew and It's just it's just great like it's and then years later when he whenforced I was on Breaking Bad It's just it
It's a fantastic story from uh Brian Cranston and it's a great little moment.

(01:24:34):
uh And also apparently director Louis T credited his experience on this film withinspiring to want to kick his drug and alcohol habit.
uh
Yeah.
Well, you know, as someone in recovery, I love hearing shit like that.
So that's awesome.
I love that story.
That's so cool.
m
he had just, he'd been doing a lot of stuff and then he made this movie and it was like, Ican do so much more if I'm not.

(01:24:56):
And then he ended up making like a bunch of, like he made a, like a bunch of movies overthe next decade and a half, two decades, uh you know, and including a movie we'll talk
about next week as well.
And there was a sequel in 1991, Alligator 2, The Mutation, starring Joseph Bologna, D.

(01:25:17):
Wallace, Richard Lynch, and Steve Railsback.
which does not connect in terms of characters to this original film, which is funnybecause Aaron, this is the second time you've been on the show and it's the second time
there's been a movie that's had a sequel with no connective tissue to its brain.
Like in name only like yeah
Single white female too!

(01:25:38):
The psycho?
it the psycho?
it's the psycho.
Yeah, amazing.
my God.
ah yeah.
This movie is, this movie is a delight.
I it's, you know, you can have a lot worse nights than a, than a double bill of John salescreature features with Piranha and Alligator.

(01:25:59):
mean, yeah, that's cinema right there.
Oh, Erin.
I want to thank you so much for joining us today.
is just, is so great to have you on the show and, and, and can you tell people where youand the Manic Movie Monday podcast can be found out there?
So Manic Movie Monday airs uh midnight Mondays every Monday.

(01:26:22):
We try at least.
It's part of our charm is that we actually do air it every Monday.
And so when you you wake up Monday morning, there's usually an episode.
uh It's there.
It's there.
You can find us on Spotify, iTunes and Amazon Music.
ah If you'd like to contact the show or follow us, we are on Instagram under Manic MovieMonday podcast.

(01:26:49):
is there it is check out the manic movie Monday podcast it is a terrific show they do theycover some just fantastic movies and uh it is a good time I'm gonna be traveling soon and
I will be how a few downloaded onto my phone to listen to on the
was going to say, like you hop in the way back machine and start with like a, you know, dolike some of the older episodes like basket case and slaughter high.

(01:27:13):
Those are Hillary.
Those are Hillary's favorite.
Like you'll ask her, she will tell you she's like slaughter high slaughter.
High is my favorite episode.
about another movie, another movie that confuses me with where it's set.
yeah.
Because it was shot in England, it's purporting to take place.
That movie, I spent the whole movie like, where is this?
yeah.
are
I did so much deep diving into that.

(01:27:34):
It was crazy.
oh But yeah, that's that's that's that's her favorite episode.
My mine, I have so many, but like I know the I really like Alice Sweet Alice and theFriday the 13th part five, the new beginning.
Those those were my favorites.
So.
Both movies that I love.
Owl Sweet Owl is one of the great New Jersey movies.
you go, New Jersey all the way.

(01:27:55):
For sure, for sure.
Now, next week, it's said that dogs are a man's best friend.
Next week, we're gonna put that to the test on Get Me Another Jaws as we look at two filmsfeaturing very dangerous canines.
First up will be Samuel Fuller's controversial 1982 film White Dog, followed by the 1983adaptation of Stephen King's novel

(01:28:26):
So come back next week.
It's going to be great.
Again, we are your hosts, Chris Iannicone and Justin Beam.
If you've enjoyed the show, please consider subscribing and following us on Blue Sky,Instagram, threads and Twitter at Get Me Another Pod.
Check out the Justin Beam Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts and you can findJustin's book, Roadside Memories, which we talked about a little bit today at

(01:28:47):
JustinBeam.com or wherever books are sold.
And if you've liked the show, tell your friends about it.
your enemies about it.
Tell those kids outside, play an alligator about it, because that's the thing kids play.
And join us next time as we continue to explore what happens when Hollywood Says, Get MeAnother.