March 3, 2025 • 59 mins
This episode covers the remarkable journey of Kathy Turiano, the Business Development and Marketing Director of Joe Bean Coffee, who has adeptly navigated the complexities of the coffee industry for over two decades. Kathy articulates her commitment to quality and sustainability, emphasizing the significance of ethical sourcing practices and the cultivation of meaningful connections with coffee producers. Her narrative encapsulates the challenges and triumphs inherent in entrepreneurship, serving as a testament to resilience and innovation in the face of adversity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:47):
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Getting Real with
Bossy.
I am your host, Kelly Bush.
And I'm your host, Kelly Metras.
We are so happy to have youhere today.
It is a blustery cold,blustery cold winter day here in
Rochester, New York.
It is snowing like crazy.
It's really pretty.
And I'm so glad to be insidetalking to Kathy Turiano about coffee
(01:11):
because.
Coffee is so warm and toasty.
Coffee is comfort andcommunity and all the things that
just make me happy.
Right.
Maybe Kathy, maybe Kathy wantsit on our retirement plan.
Yeah, I think that'd be great.
I think that'd be perfect.
We should ask her.
I'm happy it's Monday becauseusually the weather is shitty, unlike
(01:34):
Friday or Saturday, whichdirectly affects my success of the
week financially.
Be able to pay my bills.
Super happy.
It's a Monday.
No, it was supposed to be badweather, so I woke up very surprised.
Thankfully the kids don't haveschool, so I'm sure somebody will
pop in throughout this, this recording.
But yeah, Kathy, super excited.
She's got a really interesting story.
(01:55):
We got to speak with her orhave her as a guest at our panel
on our Bossy conference in 2024.
Very interesting story.
She's been in the coffeeindustry for over 2020 or this is
her 20th year now.
They've award winning coffee.
She's got a lot of interesting pivots.
(02:16):
So I'm excited to.
We're excited to share herstory with all of you, our wonderful
listeners.
(03:21):
So brew yourself a cup ofcoffee, however you choose to do
it and settle in for a prettyincredible story.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Getting Real with
Bossy, the podcast that showsyou what it's actually like to be
(03:42):
a business owner.
Today, we are thrilled towelcome Kathy Toriano, the business
development and marketingdirector of Joe Bean Coffee, to the
podcast.
Kathy is a trailblazer in thecoffee world, known for her dedication
to coffee, to quality,sustainability, and creating an exceptional
coffee experience.
Jo Bean is no exception to this.
(04:03):
We're excited to dive intoKathy's journey, her passion for
coffee, and what's brewingnext for Joe Bean.
They are mindfully grown,directly sourced, meticulously roasted,
and nationally recognized.
Thank you so much for joiningus today, Kathy.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Hi Kelly.
We're so happy to have you here.
Thank you so much for joining us.
(04:24):
We've wanted you on thepodcast since you were able to be
a panelist at our last Bossy conference.
So we're Excited to finallyable to make this happen.
So thank you so much.
How fun that was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a year ago.
Was it a year, year ago?
March?
That was a great conference.
Like, it was a great conference.
(04:46):
Really had some amazing speakers.
And, you know, well done, youguys, for putting that together.
I took a lot of notes at that conference.
I really did.
That's awesome.
I.
I met some really good people, so.
Yeah.
Fun.
All right.
I'm glad to hear that we'reworking on what we're.
We're working on this year's.
The whole year of things.
The whole.
The whole panel of panels ofall the things we're going to do
(05:07):
this year.
All the things.
All the things.
I'm very excited.
All the things.
Don't we all do that in January?
Isn't that the January?
Pretty much.
Oh, no, wait, I didn't make myyear plan yet.
Hang on.
Yeah, we always, like, oh, October.
Let's.
Let's have a meeting to planthe year, and then.
Then it's February.
Yeah.
Then it's February.
Planning the.
Yeah.
I think I always do my yearbudget in January.
(05:30):
I always do my calendar inJanuary and then.
Right.
Finish it by the end of themonth and think that's amazing.
Right.
Or sometimes I finish it in June.
So, you know.
Right.
You never know.
I love how hopeful and excitedI am in January.
And then, you know, as themonths go on, you're like, well,
(05:51):
that didn't work.
Like, let me adjust that.
I know.
I know, right?
And do you guys even buy aplanner and, you know, I bought a
note anymore.
No.
I have a lot of notebooks.
Yeah.
A lot of notebooks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just in case I want to takeall those copious notes and, you
know, follow a tremendous plan.
Exactly.
(06:12):
They're like my high school diaries.
They're fun to look back atand giggle.
Giggle over a glass of wine.
Oh, I was so hopeful.
I was so hopeful in January.
Such an idiot.
I was so organized that firstweek of January.
Right.
Nice.
Oh, boy, you are full of the quotes.
(06:32):
I'm gonna make Kelly.
I'm gonna make a notebook forKelly just of all her fun quotes
lately.
I love it.
That's going up there.
It's like my high school diaries.
So Kathy.
Kathy does one.
How does one start a coffee company?
Oh, goodness.
So Joe Bean has a really long history.
Is this my time to talk aboutour history?
(06:53):
It is your time.
Okay.
So we kind of have a longhistory, and we have three what I
consider to be major pivotswithin Our company.
So, you know, it's funny, overthe years, people are like, I remember,
you know, Joe Bean 1, Joe Bean2, Joe Bean 3, Joe being 1.5, 2.0,
2.5.
You know, I don't, you know,whatever reiteration we're on, but,
(07:16):
but I think, you know, itseems like that's a lot, but the
coffee industry itself hasevolved and changed and really moved,
especially in the last 20 years.
And so, you know, I think forus we're constant.
We were constantly kind ofreacting to the new thing and where,
(07:39):
where coffee really was and,and what was going on in coffee.
So I can take you all the wayback to the village of Webster and
you know, 2005, like you said,Kelly, you know, where we started,
we still, we started with alot of stars in our eyes and, you
know, lots of warm and fuzzyfeelings and, you know, a beautiful
(08:01):
idea which really my husbandand I at the time were volunteering
for.
We worked with junior high,high school and college students
and we had a ton of, of thatage group around us at any given
moment.
And Friday nights we wouldhave sort of an open house food meal
and anyone that came, I fed.
(08:22):
You know, if you were withinmy radius, I fed you.
During that time, we startedbuilding in particular sort of a
large group of college students.
And one of them actually wasDina, who eventually became my business
partner.
So her and her would behusband were two of our college students
that hung out at our house.
And what we saw and what wasbuilt in that season of our life
(08:45):
was really the value ofcommunity and what it does for young
people.
And I still stand for that today.
Like, I think it's importantfor that generation as they're growing
up, obviously to have the loveof family and friends.
But having a other adults whosee you and see value in you is just.
It does something that nothingelse does.
(09:07):
And that's my personal story.
I had a teacher when I was ineighth grade that I was one of those
super shy, like, you know,kids that just didn't think a lot
of themselves.
And then I had this teacherthat said things into my life and
it, and it changed how Ithought about me.
And so with that sort of in myown DNA, I really wanted to be that
(09:28):
for, for young people.
And so you can only have somany people at your house and you
can only feed so many people.
And so the idea, the seed, youknow, began to grow of how can we
bring that out, you know, andinto the community.
And so that was the birth ofJoe Bean that was at our root.
And so we.
We purchased a cafe, and inthe village of Webster.
(09:49):
And Dina was.
I was actually supposed to bekind of the silent partner, and Dina
was supposed to be kind of herand her husband, almost husband.
We're going to be sort of themain couple that was running it.
But, you know, guys, I'm sureknow and understand.
There's just an incredibleavalanche of details and activities,
and suddenly your life, youknow, just gets scooped up in these
(10:12):
things.
And honestly, Dena was alittle overwhelmed, and I could see
it, so I ended up stepping in,and then it just became her and I
just side by side, you know,kind of working that process a few
years.
And we were really busy.
Doors were always filled, andwe had a lot of young people.
But busy doesn't equate to money.
(10:32):
Can you say that one moretime, please?
Give it louder for the back, please.
Busy does not mean success,financial success, everybody at all.
And, you know, I.
I think people don't actuallyrecognize that.
They see your door filled, andthey're like, you're doing great.
(10:53):
And we were.
We were super involved in thecommunity, volunteered for everything
and anything.
I was on the chamber.
I ran events.
You know, name it, we did it.
And it had a lot of value, butfinancially, we were really struggling.
And so Dina and I actuallywent away for a weekend to a women's
retreat and, you know, didsome soul searching and, you know,
kind of came back saying,we're done.
(11:15):
Like, it was a great experiment.
It was wonderful, but, youknow, we're going to be done.
But I always leave myself aloop just a little, like, just in
case, right?
This is like how I run.
I said, just in case.
Let's make a list of what ifs, right?
If somebody, you know, didthese things for us, then we would
keep moving forward, right?
(11:36):
So we came back with thislittle tiny list and, you know, this
intent to close.
And within a week, our liststarted getting checked off.
Like, kid, you not like one ofthe things on our list.
So we weren't actuallyroasting our own coffee.
We were sourcing from somebody else.
And I thought, well, firstoff, I need a product.
Like, I can't sell somebodyelse's stuff.
(11:56):
There's just not enough margin.
So we wanted to roast, but Ithought, but I can't afford to buy
a roaster.
I can't afford to get a space.
Like, all of that.
Like, I put all the money intothis thing, so, you know, money's
gone, right?
So we got approached by a guyin the community.
Who.
His daughter was one of our regulars.
And apparently we were a bigplace in her life.
(12:17):
And I didn't know it.
And so he said, you guys aretoo important.
I heard you guys are closing.
He said, what do you need?
And so I, you know, pulled outmy little list and I said, well,
here's what I need.
And I said, I need a roaster.
I need a spot.
I need to be able to hunkerdown and I need just time, you know,
So I need somewhere cheap.
And he owned a warehouse.
He gave us his warehouse spacepretty cheap.
(12:39):
And he actually bought ourfirst roaster.
Yeah.
And.
And I kept saying, oh, soyou're like an investor this and
that.
And he goes, kathy, this is a gift.
And so our first roaster was agift to us.
And he became really anadvocate, you know, for us in that
little window of time.
And then second kind of big onour list was I knew that we were
(13:01):
doing things in coffee thatwere not quite where coffee was,
but I, I didn't know what.
Where to go.
Right.
And I knew we weren't competitive.
Like, I knew that there wasstuff happening in coffee and that
we were kind of competingagainst Dunkin Donuts and, and Starbucks,
which, by the way, openedwithin a year of me.
And like right around thecorner, you.
(13:22):
Know, with a drive through.
What's that?
With a drive through, I assume.
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly, Kelly.
Like with a drive through and,you know, I would have people like.
And God bless them, but, youknow, I would have people who supported
me, you know, supported me, right.
Go through the drive throughwith their cup and then, you know,
beep and honk and wave to me,you know, woo hoo, Joe Bean.
(13:45):
And I'm like, thanks.
You know, woo hoo.
Right.
But anyway, the.
The second kind of big thingthat I needed was fresh eyes and
a new generation.
And I really wanted our.
My son to join the business,but I didn't want to pressure him.
He was in college at the time,and, you know, I kind of thought
it has to be his idea.
(14:06):
Like, there's this funnydynamic in family businesses where
you want your family with you,but if you pressure them, then they
can resent you, and it's just messy.
On his own, he came and said,I want to be a part, especially now
that you're roasting.
I'm super interested and I seea lot that's going on in the industry.
So, Ben, I got all my lists,check, check, check.
(14:27):
And we decided to keep going.
And we took, took really whatI Consider to be kind of a three
or four year hiatus of movingsuper slow.
We.
We spent time going to NewYork, we went to Boston.
We got involved with thespecialty coffee industry outside
of Rochester.
We learned to roast.
I also realized this morningas I was thinking about this podcast,
(14:49):
it was this, like, reallyfunny, like, little window of time
for us where we startedmeeting, like, the geeky people,
like the geeky coffee peoplewho happened to be in Rochester,
and nobody was cleaning,collecting them, right?
And we started to collect themlike they were there, they had come
from other places.
And we met them all when wewere kind of doing this research,
(15:10):
you know, some of the coreplayers who ended up being our barista
team.
I met them during that littlewindow of time where we were doing
farmers markets and, you know,roasting on the side and, you know,
all of the things.
And it.
I.
I was also thinking about sortof my journey and thinking that I
am the type of person maybeyou guys can relate.
But, you know, once I sort ofget like a little community going
(15:33):
and it starts to feel good,like I could hunker down and be like,
this is great.
Let's just keep doing this,you know, and for.
For me to move to the nextthing, I need a shove, right?
And a lot of times it comes in conflict.
And so, you know, somethinghappens, some conflict happens, something,
you know, kind of comes.
(15:53):
Comes to a head, and I have todecide what to do with that.
I.
I read this great book yearsago called Necessary Endings that,
you know, some things need tocome to an end for the new thing
to begin.
And, you know, for me, I don'tlike endings.
So I would keep it going, you know.
So what came to an end was thebuilding that we were in actually
(16:15):
got bought out by a really bigdeveloper and one that kind of has
a reputation for not beinggreat with their tenants.
And so we were in thiswarehouse that had a lot of, you
know, more industrial typebusinesses and then us, right?
And so when they bought outthe building, they had a deal on
(16:35):
the table pretty quickly totake down the building and build
a medical center.
And so they gave all thetenants eviction notices, 30 day
eviction notices.
These are, like big, like,industrial type, you know, companies
that had been there for, like30 years and they had 30 days to,
you know, find a new space,move all their equipment, and then,
(16:58):
you know, get their businessand not lose business, because none
of them.
I found out that none of themhad leases.
They were all like kind of ahandshake because the village of
Webster was sort of a littlebit old school, you know, when it
came to that.
So the only one that had alease was, you know, yours truly.
So we.
We had this lease that we werepaying, you know, 200 bucks a month,
(17:18):
right?
And we had this tiny, youknow, but we were the ones that held
the lease.
And so they couldn't bringdown the building because of us.
So we became the brunt of, youknow, all of their focus, which really
wasn't good.
It was a lot of pressure.
They started, you know, not toget in and sidetracked on it too
much.
But, you know, it was.
It was like six months wherethey were trying to pressure us to
(17:41):
just exit.
And our whole focus at thattime was we'll exit, but we want
you to buy out our lease sothat we have the money to exit.
Right.
And we also want you to helpthese other tenants relocate.
So we.
We entered into.
Into a legal battle with thoseguys, and, you know, at the end of
(18:03):
the day, we won.
Right.
It was like a David and Goliath.
Like, we really, truly were so tiny.
If I told you the amount ofmoney that we were fighting for,
you would probably laugh, youknow, But.
But as a small business, like,thousand, you know, thousand dollars
is like it, right?
Like, yeah.
So important, you know, to putit down a down payment, you know,
(18:24):
on a new space and to, youknow, have a little bit of money
so that you can, you know,maybe do a tiny bit of construction.
I mean, I'm not talking a lot,but, you know, I held out for a few
thousand dollars and thoughtit was a huge victory.
It's a huge victory, though.
It is, absolutely.
So with our few thousanddollars right in hand, this is 2011.
(18:47):
Sorry.
This is a really long history.
I'm sorry, I actually, I justwant to pause for a second because
I think that this is alearning moment for a lot of listeners
that might be early on intheir business, that regardless of
what the people around you aredoing, you need to make sure that
you're taken care of.
And if you hadn't had thatlease, the next part of the story
that you're going to tell usis going to look very different because
(19:09):
you would have been kicked outin 30 days.
Yeah, we've seen it happen tobusinesses that we know.
I am a huge proponent ofmaking sure your ass is covered.
Yes, I may love my landlordtoday, but my landlord can sell his
building like nothing is setin stone ever.
Like, you have to make sureyou're covered.
Yes.
I think that this is just Agreat moment to really.
(19:30):
Because whatever you're aboutto tell us next, which we know where
you are now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wouldn't have happened, Right.
If you hadn't had that.
And it sounds like you knewthe person that was renting you the
space.
You didn't necessarily needthe lease.
Right.
And it saved your business.
Yeah.
And you know what, Kelly?
Thank you for stopping at thatmoment, because nobody tells you
(19:51):
these things, like.
And I did know him, and he wassuch an advocate for us, and we had
a great working business relationship.
And in fact, when I asked fora lease, he goes, oh, Kathy, you
don't need that.
You know, And I almost felt alittle embarrassed, you know, kind
of like I didn't trust him.
But I said, well, I.
I kind of feel like I wouldlike it, you know, just.
(20:11):
Just for.
Between us.
Right.
And it was the simplest, least.
But it was enough to keep meright in the game.
And, you know, they had tohonor it.
Like, no matter what, they hadto honor it.
It really.
I ended up with this.
We had so many people.
I mean, it does.
What do they say?
It takes a tribe.
Right?
But it takes a tribe to keep asmall business afloat.
(20:32):
Float.
In those early years.
Everything is against you.
Absolutely everything isagainst you.
And, you know, when we were upagainst this really large developer,
I mean, they're.
They're a big player.
And I had.
We were doing this tiny littlefarmer's market in Webster, and it
turns out that my neighbor whowas selling cookies was a retired
(20:55):
negotiator for this hugecorporation on the West Coast.
And he said, kathy, what'sgoing on?
And I told him, and he said,man, he said, I'll be your negotiator
at the table.
And I thought, holy cow.
Like, I got this guy who'snegotiating for us.
It floored me that he waswilling to give me his time and,
you know, and the value.
(21:16):
Somebody told me one time tolook around you and see the value
of the people that gatheraround you and recognize, you know,
that that itself is like, sosuch an asset, you know, and that
means, like, whatever value,though, you know what I'm saying?
Like, they're bringing youstuff that you could not afford,
(21:37):
like I could never haveafforded him.
And yet he was bringing me that.
That level of value, you know,in that moment.
And I thought that's.
But these things also happenedbecause of what you created, right?
Like, if you hadn't createdthat sense of community and belonging
in those groups, in thefarmer, farmers markets in the town,
you Know, allowing thatgentleman to have that place for
(22:01):
his daughter.
Right.
Open and honest about whatyou're going through and putting
that out into the universe.
And I think that's part ofwhat we try to advocate for with
this podcast is telling thatstory and being real and honest people.
If people can't help if theydon't know what you're going through,
so.
Right.
Yeah.
And I.
And thank you guys for saying that.
(22:22):
That means a lot.
And I think you.
You don't.
You give your heart, right?
Like, that's how we all start,you know, that.
That we start businessesbecause we love them and we give
everything.
We pour everything.
Especially I think womenentrepreneurs, look at.
I'm crying, do this.
We pour everything into it.
And then when they don'tsucceed, it's devastating, you know,
(22:44):
or when they're notfinancially successful, I think it's
devastating to us.
But what is grown out of thosemoments are these things that can
launch.
I had this friend in thatlittle window of time, too, who is
a lawyer, and she said to me,Kathy, she said she was a divorce
lawyer, and she.
She worked with women who cameout of really tough marriages, right.
(23:08):
And she said 90% of the time,can't stay.
Stay in the fight, the divorcefight, to get what they're due because
of the pressure.
And she said, and usuallythey'll fold, you know, before they
kind of get, like, what'sactually due to them, because it.
There's just so much pressure.
And she said, if you can stayin this and.
(23:28):
And exist in the pressure, shesaid, then there is.
There is the other side, andthe things that you've already invested
into will kind of pop up.
Right.
If you will and do have value.
But, boy, you.
You know, you almost got toexist in that moment of feeling like
everything is falling apartand everything is about.
(23:49):
About to dissolve and nothing left.
Right.
Including nothing of me.
There's nothing in business.
There's nothing of me.
Like, everything that I've,you know, invested into is worth
nothing.
And then.
But if you can stay in it, Ido think that's not true.
Those are all the lies that webelieve as entrepreneurs.
Right.
So there.
That's my.
Yeah, we could talk about thatfor, like, the next hour.
(24:12):
But I really want to hear whathappens next, because there's so
many lies that we tell.
Tell ourselves as businessowners and as women.
Yeah.
So we're in 2011.
So.
So we.
We recognized that again, sortof this thing that we were building
was what we wanted to bring tothe city, that, that's really where
(24:32):
we wanted to be.
I.
I'm gonna pause for just aminute and kind of go, like, it's
so funny.
I've never thought of loving Rochester.
Like, now I know, you know,you got your Rochester earrings,
right?
Like a Rochester sweatshirt on.
You know, think 2011.
Like, that was not a dialogue,you know, that existed.
(24:56):
And.
And I grew up in Rochester,and I don't know, I just didn't think
to say I loved it.
Right.
Like, it just was a place thatyou grow up.
And I think the decision tomove into the city and to create
a community that actuallyloved our city really was intentional.
(25:17):
And we saw that, you know,when we sort of were doing our exploration
of specialty coffee, thatthese specialty coffee places weren't
just about serving amazing coffee.
They actually were hubs ofpeople who loved the city that they
lived in and advocated for thecity that they lived in because they
wanted to grow something thatwas bigger than coffee or good cocktails
(25:41):
or good tequila or, you know,places to hang out.
Like, they wanted somethinglarger than that.
And so what I sort of say is2011, not just that we moved, but
I really, truly knew that wewere starting what I call a coffee
movement and that, you know,eventually the movement would move
(26:01):
outside of our door.
Right?
Because movements, like, amovement's not one place, A movement's
not, you know, one restaurantor one coffee place.
A movement kind of explodesinto the city.
But it took a little while.
2011, we moved in, we openedour espresso bar.
You know, we started doingpour overs and all these crazy things
(26:23):
with coffee that nobody wasdoing, and.
And started talking coffee inreally different ways.
And, you know, I always saythat you either loved us or absolutely
hated us.
There was sort of no in between.
But thankfully, enough peopleloved us that, you know, we started
to grow.
Oh, my gosh.
I remember walking into jobingon university.
(26:45):
Is this when you were on university?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And just being like, I didn'tknow you can make coffee like that,
right?
Taking so long.
But, no, it was just so cool.
Like, as like, a geek, I wasjust like, anything that's new and
different and interesting, Iwas like, wait, what is.
What are they doing?
And I would just, like, watchall the different ways people would
(27:06):
order their coffee being made.
And it was just the coolestthing ever, because no one was doing
it.
Yeah, we had.
Well, in Rochester, nobody wasdoing it.
Nobody.
And.
And we had.
We served.
Boy, I think it was like sixor seven different brewing methods.
I mean, it was ridiculous.
Like, but but we did that totake coffee out of where it was and
(27:27):
bring it into.
To where we saw.
And you almost have to, Ithink, when you sort of change over
how people look at somethingthat they know all the time, right?
Like, they look at, you know,a drink is a drink and coffee is
a coffee, and, you know, foodis food, you know, so you have to
shake it up in some way inorder to take them out of that, you
know, mode.
(27:47):
And so I think that's why wedid so many crazy things, you know,
at the beginning, which waslike, coffee's not just coffee.
It's grown by people, andit's, you know, it's tasty and wonderful,
and by the way, you could doall these great things.
Things with it.
And we started educating.
Like, that was a big piece ofwhat we did on university.
We did classes, and, you know,we started talking coffee in very
(28:08):
different ways and reallybuilding a community of people who
were focused on Rochester andon coffee and on food and local and,
you know, all the things thatI think that we see now in our city
that has developed.
The poutine truck was thefirst food, you know, food truck
in Rochester.
And they.
They came and were rightoutside my door.
(28:31):
I remember talking to Lizzyand being like, yeah, why don't we
have that food truck thing,you know, outside our door?
The eat me ice cream ladieswould come.
Like, a lot was happening in 2011.
So, yeah, fast forward.
We.
We.
We were solid.
We did that for seven years, right?
(28:52):
And really, really busy.
But I think, you know, we kindof came to another spot.
And as I said before, youknow, for me, I could have done that
for forever, right?
But I think you come to thesespots where you recognize that maybe
something needs to change.
And I think in that moment, itwas mainly for Dena and for Ben.
Things needed to change.
(29:13):
I think they were both.
That's my son.
They were both our businesspartners, and they were just really
burnt out.
We were open so seven days aweek, from morning until midnight
most days.
We were doing a thousand events.
We were running a fullkitchen, a full bar, full bunch of
events.
And then, you know, in themidst of all of that, coffee was
exploding in Rochester.
(29:34):
So, you know, you sort ofstart to see the writing on the wall
that you're.
You're now competing againstinstead of nobody, which we really
weren't competing against anybody.
Now we're competing against,you know, 10, 15 spots, you know,
that all kind of look like us.
And, well, and the competitionblew up on the chain side.
Too.
So you have way more locallyowned and operated coffee shops.
(29:56):
Right.
You see them popping up, butyou also have those drive thrus that
are exploding.
Yes, Rochester.
Yes, you're right, Kelly.
And you know what's interesting?
Both Dunkin Donuts andStarbucks were really not in the
city.
And you know, they're, theirmodel is to look where coffee is
happening.
And so, and then, and then land.
(30:18):
And so here all of theseindependents were making coffee happen
and they're like, Rochester isa great coffee scene.
What's like so, so then they land.
So you're right.
So now you're up againsteverybody, you know, locally.
And I don't want to say it ina bad way, but it is true.
Like, and I really do loveeveryone in the Rochester coffee
scene.
I know most of them and youknow, it is one kind of big, you
(30:41):
know, community but you know,you're still trying to survive financially
and so somebody is.
There's only so many customersand they're all going to make choices,
you know, of where to go.
And now you've got these otherdrive throughs in the mix so they're
going to make those choices as well.
So you know, your customerbase gets ever so slightly stretched
and when you have, you know,small margins and you're trying to
(31:05):
make life work, that stretchcan be difficult.
Add in 201617 we actuallywere, we were growing and so we bought
a new roaster and it was likethe lemon of all roasters piece of
equipment that was reallychallenging and ended up putting
me once again in a legal battle.
(31:25):
I've had two pretty big legal battles.
So if anybody out there wantsto talk to me about how to do that,
I can help.
I never thought I'd be in anyway an expert, and I'm not an expert,
but I do know how to navigatesome of that.
But it was a lot.
And so 2019, we just made thischoice to look at what we were doing
(31:46):
and to pare it back.
And roasting has always.
And in that time we werestarting to direct source.
So Ben was going to origin, hewas going to Colombia, Costa Rica,
Guatemala.
Like we were really getting toknow our farming partners way better
and recognizing how much welove that and how much we could bring
that to the Rochester coffeescene or the regional coffee scene
(32:09):
and how, you know, excitingthat whole aspect of the business
was for us.
And so we also had been seeingroasteries around the country building
out kind of their roasteryalmost like a brewery.
So, you know, there was thisnew model kind of going on where
you would build yourproduction space and then you would
house your espresso bar withinyour production space space.
(32:31):
So that was our originalthought in 2019, was to build out
our production space and buildour espresso bar, you know, in the
front and kind of do more likethe classes and, you know, bring
our farming partners into thespace and have people meet them.
So we, we did that.
(32:51):
So 2018, we closed on university.
Our lease was up too, so thetiming was kind of good.
And then we built out ourspace right around the corner on
Blossom in 2019.
Had our farming partner fromNicaragua come for our grand opening.
People loved him.
He was awesome to have there.
Had our farming partner fromGuatemala come.
(33:12):
It was super fun.
And then Covid hit damn it.
There it is.
So, you know, it was funny.
We did some of the stuff thatwe thought we would do in 2019 and
we.
We built out our website, webuilt out our home subscription program,
like a lot of ways to.
Then ended up being thefoundation of where we are right
(33:32):
now.
And then 2020 hit and all ofthe things that we built in 2019
digitally really became ourpath forward and where we needed
to be.
Like, our home subscriptionprogram took off.
Our online sales took off,really helped us survive.
You know, what we all know wasa wild year.
Wild years, right?
(33:53):
Yeah.
But the front of the housechanged radically.
Like, we had seating andeverything in there.
We had taken it away.
And then by the time you couldput it back, we needed the space.
Like, our production was busyand so.
And we didn't have the team toman it.
Like everybody, you know, hadkind of gone their own way as far
as our barista team.
Rightfully so.
(34:13):
Not in a bad way, but, youknow, so we just were in a very different
spot.
When it said you could bringall that back, we're like, well,
we're sort of done.
And so, you know, now here we are.
Today we're.
We're mainly focused on onlineand home subscriptions, but, you
know, also wholesale and.
And co packing is kind of abig, big part of our world too.
(34:34):
So.
So there.
I know.
Can you explain what.
So there's our 20 year historyin way too long.
I'm sorry.
Not at all.
So, Cath, Kathy, what is copacking for the listener that doesn't
know.
Sure.
So we.
We actually private label, Iguess, for a few other brands.
(34:55):
A few of them are.
Are regional and one of themis national and our name is not on
it.
Some we source coffee for andother ones they source their own
Coffee.
Because we have such greatrelationships at the farm level,
we're able to help withsourcing, and a lot of them are taking
(35:16):
advantage of that.
So.
So.
So, you know, people may besurprised to know there are roasters
that don't always roast.
Roasting is especially.
Sourcing in 2020 became reallytricky, and unless you had built
a.
A very solid network offarming partners, it was hard to
(35:38):
get your hands on inventory.
And so that's what we can kindof bring to the table.
And that's how we startedhelping some other, you know, sort
of regional roasters whodidn't have that.
So we have.
We kind of help them keepgoing so they can.
So you do the work and thenyou put their label on it?
Yes, that's exactly it.
So we help them source andthen we roast it, and then we put
(35:59):
their label on it.
It.
So we're not on there at all.
I think it's a great valuethat we can bring to other businesses
that, you know, want to keepthat brand going, but don't have
some of the infrastructurethat we've built out, you know, over
the last few years.
And you talk.
Sorry, I was gonna say, youtalked about the technical stuff
(36:20):
that you guys built.
And I just want to say yourwebsite's amazing, and for anybody
listening that needs to learnabout some of the things that we
talked about in the past halfan hour or however long we've been
telling your story.
You guys kind of break it downfor people like, you know, what the
different things mean, how touse them appropriately.
So if you want to be a bettercoffee drinker, you should go to
the jobing website and lookaround and see some of the tips and
(36:44):
tricks, because it is.
It is great.
You guys do a great job.
Thank you.
Kelly.
Yeah, I assume you're kind ofreferring to our blog.
And, you know, one of thethings we struggled with over the
last few years was so muchdialogue happened around our espresso
bar of, you know, peoplecoming in and saying, hey, I.
(37:04):
I can't make coffee at homethe way you guys make coffee.
Help me.
And, you know, what am I doing wrong?
Yeah.
And coffee is one of thosereally funny things where you think,
I can make coffee.
Everybody knows how to make coffee.
And then as soon as you start,you know, tasting better coffee and
going to coffee shops andhaving baristas make stuff for you,
then you're like, what theheck are they doing?
(37:25):
You know, that I'm not doing?
And.
And.
But we miss that.
Like, we.
We ended up missing that whenwe didn't have that, you know, in
2020 or whatever, we missedthat community of talking to people.
So then we built out the blog,we built out our YouTube and have
been trying to kind of makethat digital community answer the
questions that we know people have.
(37:46):
Because I, I get it.
Like, you bring home this bagand you think, now what?
Right.
Especially for the gifters.
Right?
We're right after theholidays, people went and got some
jobine coffee for gifts andgive it to people, and then they're
like, okay, now what?
Yeah, we get that a lot.
Yeah.
You know, so and so sent methis and I don't know what to do
with it.
(38:06):
So.
Yeah.
And, you know, it's funnylittle things.
I mean, coffee is.
Coffee is.
How does it get flavor?
Right?
How does that drink get flavored?
You know, there's just coffeegrounds, get in touch with water.
Right.
So so little tiny tweaks,like, you know, grind size and how,
how.
And timing, like how much timedoes that actually engage and what's
(38:30):
the size of the granules?
Like, you tweak those littlethings and suddenly you have an amazingly
better beverage.
So that's what we, we'rehelping people do, those tiny little
tweaks.
That's fantastic.
Can you talk quick about thesubscription boxes?
I think that's prettyincredible that you offer that.
Sure.
So we have about a dozen or sosingle origin relationships.
(38:54):
So, you know, one farm, onecountry, you know, one family.
Right.
That we buy from.
So Perpetual Joy is ourrotating subscription where we go
through our single origins.
So you can pick the number ofbags you want, pick the timing that
you want, and then we takecare of everything else.
So you can get it once a week,once a month, once every other week,
(39:15):
whatever you want.
And then we in this last yearadded subscriptions.
We added a decaf subscriptionand then we added blends.
We also, we do two differentsize blends.
So we do a bulk size blend andthen we do a regular smaller size
blend.
So we found that it is funny,people actually mix and match our
subscriptions.
(39:35):
So, you know, we got a lot ofpeople who.
It's like, I drink regularcoffee, but my spouse drinks decaf.
Or I want, you know, theperpetual joy, the single origins
for my home.
But I like the bulk, you know,because I.
From my office or somethinglike that.
So.
So yeah, we're.
We're continuing to kind of add.
We've got a few more that wemight add where we actually now work.
(39:58):
Work with four fully ownedwomen producers at Origin, which
I Would love to just do awhole session on women in coffee
and how important it is.
We will bring you back for that.
That sounds wonderful.
How important it is, you know,especially in some of these cultures,
seeing women fully own.
So like 80% of coffee is.
(40:19):
The workers in coffee arewomen, but usually only about 30%
of farms are actually owned by women.
So we're really excited thatwe have four fully owned women producers
that we work with and havebeen working with for years.
So I would like to make thatinto a subscription just to see everybody
like, you know.
Absolutely.
Producers.
(40:40):
Yeah, that's my dream.
Ben goes out and visits all ofthe farming partners and.
And keeps in touch with them.
But my dream is to go to theCongo and visit our women producers
in the Congo because I justadore them and think they're amazing.
And so I want to go.
(41:00):
I know, yeah.
Is that a bossy sponsored trip?
Can we make this happen?
It's funny, I've had.
When I bring it up, because Ikeep bringing.
I brought it up for the lastfew years and I bring it up and every
woman I brought it up with islike, I'll go.
And I thought, yeah, I thinkyou all have a whole plane full of
people.
I think that's a no brainer.
I am kind of not kidding.
I.
I actually would love to puttogether a.
(41:21):
A Rochester focused tripbecause these women have overcome
a lot and I think they'resuper inspirational.
So, yeah, yeah, they inspire me.
(42:33):
So on top of all of theamazing things you've already said,
your company is also a B Corp,which I don't think a lot of people
know what that means.
So if you could tell us whatthat means and why you chose to go
that route.
Sure.
So B Corp businesses arebusinesses that are for profit, but
they're also existing to do good.
(42:53):
That's sort of their basic.
So famous B Corps would belike Tom's shoes.
Right.
You know, for every pair ofshoes, you know, we help this other
thing.
Eileen Fisher, Patagonia.
These are some of the pioneersof B Corp as a movement, and we chose
to be a B Corp.
A lot of coffee roasterschoose to be B Corps because was.
(43:15):
Let's see if I can make thisreally short.
So there's certificationswithin coffee.
Fair trade and organic are twokind of famous certifications that
you can get as a coffee roaster.
But as soon as you startmeeting coffee farmers, you start
recognizing that fair tradeisn't fair and organic isn't what
you think it is.
You know, it could be what itis in the United States, but we're
(43:37):
dealing with third world countries.
And so organic certificationoftentimes is expensive for small
farms and the larger farmerscan purchase it.
And so those labels don't meannecessarily what people think they
mean.
Fair trade wages is like theminimum and not even really the minimum.
(43:57):
It hadn't changed in like 10or 15 years.
As far as like the.
You have to pay at least adollar sixty, I think a pound.
We pay easily five times that amount.
So to put a fair trade labelon something when we're paying way
above that didn't make any sense.
And so B Corp comes in andsays, okay, we'll investigate how
(44:22):
you guys are working and areyou working in a way that's ethical?
Are you working in a waythat's sustainable?
And then if you are, then,then you can join the B Corp family.
So B Corp is really hard toget and takes months.
And it is literally likesomebody looking through your underwear
drawer.
They look at absolutely everything.
(44:43):
We had to prove not just whatwe were paying, but we had to actually
prove what our farmers werepaying their workers.
We had to prove what they weredoing doing for soil conditions.
I mean like everything.
Wow.
We can.
So it was a pretty extensive.
For us, it was a prettyextensive, extensive certification.
Yeah.
B Corp is an international movement.
(45:03):
It's not a national movement,but there's, there's like a dozen
here locally in the Rochester region.
And we're actually gettingready to launch a B Corp organization.
So I love that.
Stay tuned for that.
Yeah.
And thank you for that.
Congratulations.
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, I knew the basis of it,but I never really thought about
it on the third world countrybecause I know a lot about like the,
(45:27):
the way that, you know,tequila is labeled organic and, and
those kinds of things andadditive free and like those are
all big terms in that industry.
And what that means in Mexicois different than what it means here.
And I didn't really thinkabout it as far as like third world
countries.
Yeah.
And like organic and fairtrade and that kind of thing to put
that label on it.
(45:48):
Yeah.
So I think that.
Thank you very much for, forexplaining that.
And it sounds like it's likethe perfect match for what you're
doing.
Yeah.
And a lot of specialty coffeeroasters like us choose to be a B
Corp because of that becausethere's no direct trade certification.
It just doesn't exist.
And so it's really hard for usto talk about what we do and how
(46:11):
we work when there's no easyexplanation to it, and there's no
easy certification.
So, yeah, B Corp becomes kindof the where we go.
So.
And it's a.
It's an amazing bank of resources.
Like, I, I've.
I'm only kind of scratched thesurface, but they really do.
Once you're kind of in theirfamily, there's a lot that they can
(46:34):
do for you.
So, like I said, we're laughing.
Gull Chocolates is actually aB Corp.
And so Lindsay and I aretrying to spearhead, trying to get
the B Corps together, andthat's our goal in 2025, to do a
couple of events and to try toexplain what B Corp is and answer
questions.
So.
Nice.
Yeah, Very cool.
(46:56):
Well, gosh, we're out of time,of course, and I feel like we could
still go on and on, but thankyou so much, Kathy.
We love your story.
You're incredibly tenacious.
I love that you had.
You were ready to be done.
You got some affirmations, youwrote it down, you put it out into
the universe, and it came true.
(47:17):
Coffee is truly aboutcommunity, and you've encompassed.
Encompassed that from day one.
It continues to work for you.
Even though you don't have aspace that is inviting people into
your physical space now,you're still doing it.
You still have community andit's working for you.
You're still giving back.
And all of your pivots areintentional and not reactionary.
(47:38):
Even if they are coming out ofconflict, you're using it and it's
intentional and it's, it'sjust, it's truly inspirational.
You're remarkable andtenacious, and I really appreciate
you being here.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Kelly.
Oh, my gosh, you're gonna makeme cry again.
I, I wasn't expecting to be soemotional on this call, but you guys
(48:00):
are amazing, and thank you forletting me share and being interested
in, you know, what we're doingand how we're doing it and, and that
you guys, you know, arebringing together the women entrepreneurs,
Entrepreneurs here in this region.
What an important thing to do.
I, I think there's just somuch support that comes through you
guys and, you know, thenetwork that you're building.
(48:21):
So I'm a, I'm a big fan.
So thank you.
Thank you, Kathy.
Thank you.
Wow.
Talk about growth.
Like, I love where she camefrom, like a small town coffee shop
in, like, a village to adowntown roastery where she's co
packing and has these amazing relationships.
(48:42):
But the thing that stuck outfor that interview was relationships,
right?
Like the relationship she hadthat led her to have the small town
coffee shop and thatrelationship and the relationship
she built there that led herto the transition downtown.
And the relationship she builtthere led her to the, you know, large
(49:04):
rotisserie roastery.
Roastery that she's in now.
And in that she's stillbuilding relationships.
She's got relationships withthe farmers and the producers and.
Which is, which is coffee though.
I know.
She's affirming.
She's affirming.
She's affirming.
She's affirming.
(49:24):
I know.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.
I know.
And to see it work so well forher, I'm like, come on.
All right, fine.
Maybe you're not pen.
Do you want to write it in adifferent pen?
I have so many pens and Ithink you actually gave me this mug.
I think this mug is a giftfrom you.
(49:44):
It's the.
I'm trying not very.
I'm trying very hard not toconnect with people right now.
Mug holds all my pens.
So I'm going to write my, myaffirmations in all and with all
of these pens and then I'lljust see if maybe it is in fact that
I have the wrong pen.
I have a lot of differentcolor post it notes too.
So I'll just keep writing them.
Maybe different fonts.
(50:05):
Keep writing it.
Yeah, well, and I love the,you know, just that you have to stay
in the pressure.
Like it's living in thatpressure zone.
That hurt in my soul.
It hurt my soul.
Yeah.
Because as women, it is easierto fold and I.
It's not necessarily a genderthing, but we are taught very young
(50:30):
not to push back.
Right.
And it's something that Ithink is more ingrained in our heads
because of society pressuring us.
It doesn't mean it doesn'thappen for men, but we are two fold
and not.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Getting Real with
Bossy.
I am your host, Kelly Bush.
And I'm your host, Kelly Metras.
We are so happy to have youhere today.
It is a blustery cold,blustery cold winter day here in
Rochester, New York.
It is snowing like crazy.
It's really pretty.
And I'm so glad to be insidetalking to Kathy Turiano about coffee
(01:11):
because.
Coffee is so warm and toasty.
Coffee is comfort andcommunity and all the things that
just make me happy.
Right.
Maybe Kathy, maybe Kathy wantsit on our retirement plan.
Yeah, I think that'd be great.
I think that'd be perfect.
We should ask her.
I'm happy it's Monday becauseusually the weather is shitty, unlike
(01:34):
Friday or Saturday, whichdirectly affects my success of the
week financially.
Be able to pay my bills.
Super happy.
It's a Monday.
No, it was supposed to be badweather, so I woke up very surprised.
Thankfully the kids don't haveschool, so I'm sure somebody will
pop in throughout this, this recording.
But yeah, Kathy, super excited.
She's got a really interesting story.
(01:55):
We got to speak with her orhave her as a guest at our panel
on our Bossy conference in 2024.
Very interesting story.
She's been in the coffeeindustry for over 2020 or this is
her 20th year now.
They've award winning coffee.
She's got a lot of interesting pivots.
(02:16):
So I'm excited to.
We're excited to share herstory with all of you, our wonderful
listeners.
(03:21):
So brew yourself a cup ofcoffee, however you choose to do
it and settle in for a prettyincredible story.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Getting Real with
Bossy, the podcast that showsyou what it's actually like to be
(03:42):
a business owner.
Today, we are thrilled towelcome Kathy Toriano, the business
development and marketingdirector of Joe Bean Coffee, to the
podcast.
Kathy is a trailblazer in thecoffee world, known for her dedication
to coffee, to quality,sustainability, and creating an exceptional
coffee experience.
Jo Bean is no exception to this.
(04:03):
We're excited to dive intoKathy's journey, her passion for
coffee, and what's brewingnext for Joe Bean.
They are mindfully grown,directly sourced, meticulously roasted,
and nationally recognized.
Thank you so much for joiningus today, Kathy.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Hi Kelly.
We're so happy to have you here.
Thank you so much for joining us.
(04:24):
We've wanted you on thepodcast since you were able to be
a panelist at our last Bossy conference.
So we're Excited to finallyable to make this happen.
So thank you so much.
How fun that was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a year ago.
Was it a year, year ago?
March?
That was a great conference.
Like, it was a great conference.
(04:46):
Really had some amazing speakers.
And, you know, well done, youguys, for putting that together.
I took a lot of notes at that conference.
I really did.
That's awesome.
I.
I met some really good people, so.
Yeah.
Fun.
All right.
I'm glad to hear that we'reworking on what we're.
We're working on this year's.
The whole year of things.
The whole.
The whole panel of panels ofall the things we're going to do
(05:07):
this year.
All the things.
All the things.
I'm very excited.
All the things.
Don't we all do that in January?
Isn't that the January?
Pretty much.
Oh, no, wait, I didn't make myyear plan yet.
Hang on.
Yeah, we always, like, oh, October.
Let's.
Let's have a meeting to planthe year, and then.
Then it's February.
Yeah.
Then it's February.
Planning the.
Yeah.
I think I always do my yearbudget in January.
(05:30):
I always do my calendar inJanuary and then.
Right.
Finish it by the end of themonth and think that's amazing.
Right.
Or sometimes I finish it in June.
So, you know.
Right.
You never know.
I love how hopeful and excitedI am in January.
And then, you know, as themonths go on, you're like, well,
(05:51):
that didn't work.
Like, let me adjust that.
I know.
I know, right?
And do you guys even buy aplanner and, you know, I bought a
note anymore.
No.
I have a lot of notebooks.
Yeah.
A lot of notebooks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just in case I want to takeall those copious notes and, you
know, follow a tremendous plan.
Exactly.
(06:12):
They're like my high school diaries.
They're fun to look back atand giggle.
Giggle over a glass of wine.
Oh, I was so hopeful.
I was so hopeful in January.
Such an idiot.
I was so organized that firstweek of January.
Right.
Nice.
Oh, boy, you are full of the quotes.
(06:32):
I'm gonna make Kelly.
I'm gonna make a notebook forKelly just of all her fun quotes
lately.
I love it.
That's going up there.
It's like my high school diaries.
So Kathy.
Kathy does one.
How does one start a coffee company?
Oh, goodness.
So Joe Bean has a really long history.
Is this my time to talk aboutour history?
(06:53):
It is your time.
Okay.
So we kind of have a longhistory, and we have three what I
consider to be major pivotswithin Our company.
So, you know, it's funny, overthe years, people are like, I remember,
you know, Joe Bean 1, Joe Bean2, Joe Bean 3, Joe being 1.5, 2.0,
2.5.
You know, I don't, you know,whatever reiteration we're on, but,
(07:16):
but I think, you know, itseems like that's a lot, but the
coffee industry itself hasevolved and changed and really moved,
especially in the last 20 years.
And so, you know, I think forus we're constant.
We were constantly kind ofreacting to the new thing and where,
(07:39):
where coffee really was and,and what was going on in coffee.
So I can take you all the wayback to the village of Webster and
you know, 2005, like you said,Kelly, you know, where we started,
we still, we started with alot of stars in our eyes and, you
know, lots of warm and fuzzyfeelings and, you know, a beautiful
(08:01):
idea which really my husbandand I at the time were volunteering
for.
We worked with junior high,high school and college students
and we had a ton of, of thatage group around us at any given
moment.
And Friday nights we wouldhave sort of an open house food meal
and anyone that came, I fed.
(08:22):
You know, if you were withinmy radius, I fed you.
During that time, we startedbuilding in particular sort of a
large group of college students.
And one of them actually wasDina, who eventually became my business
partner.
So her and her would behusband were two of our college students
that hung out at our house.
And what we saw and what wasbuilt in that season of our life
(08:45):
was really the value ofcommunity and what it does for young
people.
And I still stand for that today.
Like, I think it's importantfor that generation as they're growing
up, obviously to have the loveof family and friends.
But having a other adults whosee you and see value in you is just.
It does something that nothingelse does.
(09:07):
And that's my personal story.
I had a teacher when I was ineighth grade that I was one of those
super shy, like, you know,kids that just didn't think a lot
of themselves.
And then I had this teacherthat said things into my life and
it, and it changed how Ithought about me.
And so with that sort of in myown DNA, I really wanted to be that
(09:28):
for, for young people.
And so you can only have somany people at your house and you
can only feed so many people.
And so the idea, the seed, youknow, began to grow of how can we
bring that out, you know, andinto the community.
And so that was the birth ofJoe Bean that was at our root.
And so we.
We purchased a cafe, and inthe village of Webster.
(09:49):
And Dina was.
I was actually supposed to bekind of the silent partner, and Dina
was supposed to be kind of herand her husband, almost husband.
We're going to be sort of themain couple that was running it.
But, you know, guys, I'm sureknow and understand.
There's just an incredibleavalanche of details and activities,
and suddenly your life, youknow, just gets scooped up in these
(10:12):
things.
And honestly, Dena was alittle overwhelmed, and I could see
it, so I ended up stepping in,and then it just became her and I
just side by side, you know,kind of working that process a few
years.
And we were really busy.
Doors were always filled, andwe had a lot of young people.
But busy doesn't equate to money.
(10:32):
Can you say that one moretime, please?
Give it louder for the back, please.
Busy does not mean success,financial success, everybody at all.
And, you know, I.
I think people don't actuallyrecognize that.
They see your door filled, andthey're like, you're doing great.
(10:53):
And we were.
We were super involved in thecommunity, volunteered for everything
and anything.
I was on the chamber.
I ran events.
You know, name it, we did it.
And it had a lot of value, butfinancially, we were really struggling.
And so Dina and I actuallywent away for a weekend to a women's
retreat and, you know, didsome soul searching and, you know,
kind of came back saying,we're done.
(11:15):
Like, it was a great experiment.
It was wonderful, but, youknow, we're going to be done.
But I always leave myself aloop just a little, like, just in
case, right?
This is like how I run.
I said, just in case.
Let's make a list of what ifs, right?
If somebody, you know, didthese things for us, then we would
keep moving forward, right?
(11:36):
So we came back with thislittle tiny list and, you know, this
intent to close.
And within a week, our liststarted getting checked off.
Like, kid, you not like one ofthe things on our list.
So we weren't actuallyroasting our own coffee.
We were sourcing from somebody else.
And I thought, well, firstoff, I need a product.
Like, I can't sell somebodyelse's stuff.
(11:56):
There's just not enough margin.
So we wanted to roast, but Ithought, but I can't afford to buy
a roaster.
I can't afford to get a space.
Like, all of that.
Like, I put all the money intothis thing, so, you know, money's
gone, right?
So we got approached by a guyin the community.
Who.
His daughter was one of our regulars.
And apparently we were a bigplace in her life.
(12:17):
And I didn't know it.
And so he said, you guys aretoo important.
I heard you guys are closing.
He said, what do you need?
And so I, you know, pulled outmy little list and I said, well,
here's what I need.
And I said, I need a roaster.
I need a spot.
I need to be able to hunkerdown and I need just time, you know,
So I need somewhere cheap.
And he owned a warehouse.
He gave us his warehouse spacepretty cheap.
(12:39):
And he actually bought ourfirst roaster.
Yeah.
And.
And I kept saying, oh, soyou're like an investor this and
that.
And he goes, kathy, this is a gift.
And so our first roaster was agift to us.
And he became really anadvocate, you know, for us in that
little window of time.
And then second kind of big onour list was I knew that we were
(13:01):
doing things in coffee thatwere not quite where coffee was,
but I, I didn't know what.
Where to go.
Right.
And I knew we weren't competitive.
Like, I knew that there wasstuff happening in coffee and that
we were kind of competingagainst Dunkin Donuts and, and Starbucks,
which, by the way, openedwithin a year of me.
And like right around thecorner, you.
(13:22):
Know, with a drive through.
What's that?
With a drive through, I assume.
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly, Kelly.
Like with a drive through and,you know, I would have people like.
And God bless them, but, youknow, I would have people who supported
me, you know, supported me, right.
Go through the drive throughwith their cup and then, you know,
beep and honk and wave to me,you know, woo hoo, Joe Bean.
(13:45):
And I'm like, thanks.
You know, woo hoo.
Right.
But anyway, the.
The second kind of big thingthat I needed was fresh eyes and
a new generation.
And I really wanted our.
My son to join the business,but I didn't want to pressure him.
He was in college at the time,and, you know, I kind of thought
it has to be his idea.
(14:06):
Like, there's this funnydynamic in family businesses where
you want your family with you,but if you pressure them, then they
can resent you, and it's just messy.
On his own, he came and said,I want to be a part, especially now
that you're roasting.
I'm super interested and I seea lot that's going on in the industry.
So, Ben, I got all my lists,check, check, check.
(14:27):
And we decided to keep going.
And we took, took really whatI Consider to be kind of a three
or four year hiatus of movingsuper slow.
We.
We spent time going to NewYork, we went to Boston.
We got involved with thespecialty coffee industry outside
of Rochester.
We learned to roast.
I also realized this morningas I was thinking about this podcast,
(14:49):
it was this, like, reallyfunny, like, little window of time
for us where we startedmeeting, like, the geeky people,
like the geeky coffee peoplewho happened to be in Rochester,
and nobody was cleaning,collecting them, right?
And we started to collect themlike they were there, they had come
from other places.
And we met them all when wewere kind of doing this research,
(15:10):
you know, some of the coreplayers who ended up being our barista
team.
I met them during that littlewindow of time where we were doing
farmers markets and, you know,roasting on the side and, you know,
all of the things.
And it.
I.
I was also thinking about sortof my journey and thinking that I
am the type of person maybeyou guys can relate.
But, you know, once I sort ofget like a little community going
(15:33):
and it starts to feel good,like I could hunker down and be like,
this is great.
Let's just keep doing this,you know, and for.
For me to move to the nextthing, I need a shove, right?
And a lot of times it comes in conflict.
And so, you know, somethinghappens, some conflict happens, something,
you know, kind of comes.
(15:53):
Comes to a head, and I have todecide what to do with that.
I.
I read this great book yearsago called Necessary Endings that,
you know, some things need tocome to an end for the new thing
to begin.
And, you know, for me, I don'tlike endings.
So I would keep it going, you know.
So what came to an end was thebuilding that we were in actually
(16:15):
got bought out by a really bigdeveloper and one that kind of has
a reputation for not beinggreat with their tenants.
And so we were in thiswarehouse that had a lot of, you
know, more industrial typebusinesses and then us, right?
And so when they bought outthe building, they had a deal on
(16:35):
the table pretty quickly totake down the building and build
a medical center.
And so they gave all thetenants eviction notices, 30 day
eviction notices.
These are, like big, like,industrial type, you know, companies
that had been there for, like30 years and they had 30 days to,
you know, find a new space,move all their equipment, and then,
(16:58):
you know, get their businessand not lose business, because none
of them.
I found out that none of themhad leases.
They were all like kind of ahandshake because the village of
Webster was sort of a littlebit old school, you know, when it
came to that.
So the only one that had alease was, you know, yours truly.
So we.
We had this lease that we werepaying, you know, 200 bucks a month,
(17:18):
right?
And we had this tiny, youknow, but we were the ones that held
the lease.
And so they couldn't bringdown the building because of us.
So we became the brunt of, youknow, all of their focus, which really
wasn't good.
It was a lot of pressure.
They started, you know, not toget in and sidetracked on it too
much.
But, you know, it was.
It was like six months wherethey were trying to pressure us to
(17:41):
just exit.
And our whole focus at thattime was we'll exit, but we want
you to buy out our lease sothat we have the money to exit.
Right.
And we also want you to helpthese other tenants relocate.
So we.
We entered into.
Into a legal battle with thoseguys, and, you know, at the end of
(18:03):
the day, we won.
Right.
It was like a David and Goliath.
Like, we really, truly were so tiny.
If I told you the amount ofmoney that we were fighting for,
you would probably laugh, youknow, But.
But as a small business, like,thousand, you know, thousand dollars
is like it, right?
Like, yeah.
So important, you know, to putit down a down payment, you know,
(18:24):
on a new space and to, youknow, have a little bit of money
so that you can, you know,maybe do a tiny bit of construction.
I mean, I'm not talking a lot,but, you know, I held out for a few
thousand dollars and thoughtit was a huge victory.
It's a huge victory, though.
It is, absolutely.
So with our few thousanddollars right in hand, this is 2011.
(18:47):
Sorry.
This is a really long history.
I'm sorry, I actually, I justwant to pause for a second because
I think that this is alearning moment for a lot of listeners
that might be early on intheir business, that regardless of
what the people around you aredoing, you need to make sure that
you're taken care of.
And if you hadn't had thatlease, the next part of the story
that you're going to tell usis going to look very different because
(19:09):
you would have been kicked outin 30 days.
Yeah, we've seen it happen tobusinesses that we know.
I am a huge proponent ofmaking sure your ass is covered.
Yes, I may love my landlordtoday, but my landlord can sell his
building like nothing is setin stone ever.
Like, you have to make sureyou're covered.
Yes.
I think that this is just Agreat moment to really.
(19:30):
Because whatever you're aboutto tell us next, which we know where
you are now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wouldn't have happened, Right.
If you hadn't had that.
And it sounds like you knewthe person that was renting you the
space.
You didn't necessarily needthe lease.
Right.
And it saved your business.
Yeah.
And you know what, Kelly?
Thank you for stopping at thatmoment, because nobody tells you
(19:51):
these things, like.
And I did know him, and he wassuch an advocate for us, and we had
a great working business relationship.
And in fact, when I asked fora lease, he goes, oh, Kathy, you
don't need that.
You know, And I almost felt alittle embarrassed, you know, kind
of like I didn't trust him.
But I said, well, I.
I kind of feel like I wouldlike it, you know, just.
(20:11):
Just for.
Between us.
Right.
And it was the simplest, least.
But it was enough to keep meright in the game.
And, you know, they had tohonor it.
Like, no matter what, they hadto honor it.
It really.
I ended up with this.
We had so many people.
I mean, it does.
What do they say?
It takes a tribe.
Right?
But it takes a tribe to keep asmall business afloat.
(20:32):
Float.
In those early years.
Everything is against you.
Absolutely everything isagainst you.
And, you know, when we were upagainst this really large developer,
I mean, they're.
They're a big player.
And I had.
We were doing this tiny littlefarmer's market in Webster, and it
turns out that my neighbor whowas selling cookies was a retired
(20:55):
negotiator for this hugecorporation on the West Coast.
And he said, kathy, what'sgoing on?
And I told him, and he said,man, he said, I'll be your negotiator
at the table.
And I thought, holy cow.
Like, I got this guy who'snegotiating for us.
It floored me that he waswilling to give me his time and,
you know, and the value.
(21:16):
Somebody told me one time tolook around you and see the value
of the people that gatheraround you and recognize, you know,
that that itself is like, sosuch an asset, you know, and that
means, like, whatever value,though, you know what I'm saying?
Like, they're bringing youstuff that you could not afford,
(21:37):
like I could never haveafforded him.
And yet he was bringing me that.
That level of value, you know,in that moment.
And I thought that's.
But these things also happenedbecause of what you created, right?
Like, if you hadn't createdthat sense of community and belonging
in those groups, in thefarmer, farmers markets in the town,
you Know, allowing thatgentleman to have that place for
(22:01):
his daughter.
Right.
Open and honest about whatyou're going through and putting
that out into the universe.
And I think that's part ofwhat we try to advocate for with
this podcast is telling thatstory and being real and honest people.
If people can't help if theydon't know what you're going through,
so.
Right.
Yeah.
And I.
And thank you guys for saying that.
(22:22):
That means a lot.
And I think you.
You don't.
You give your heart, right?
Like, that's how we all start,you know, that.
That we start businessesbecause we love them and we give
everything.
We pour everything.
Especially I think womenentrepreneurs, look at.
I'm crying, do this.
We pour everything into it.
And then when they don'tsucceed, it's devastating, you know,
(22:44):
or when they're notfinancially successful, I think it's
devastating to us.
But what is grown out of thosemoments are these things that can
launch.
I had this friend in thatlittle window of time, too, who is
a lawyer, and she said to me,Kathy, she said she was a divorce
lawyer, and she.
She worked with women who cameout of really tough marriages, right.
(23:08):
And she said 90% of the time,can't stay.
Stay in the fight, the divorcefight, to get what they're due because
of the pressure.
And she said, and usuallythey'll fold, you know, before they
kind of get, like, what'sactually due to them, because it.
There's just so much pressure.
And she said, if you can stayin this and.
(23:28):
And exist in the pressure, shesaid, then there is.
There is the other side, andthe things that you've already invested
into will kind of pop up.
Right.
If you will and do have value.
But, boy, you.
You know, you almost got toexist in that moment of feeling like
everything is falling apartand everything is about.
(23:49):
About to dissolve and nothing left.
Right.
Including nothing of me.
There's nothing in business.
There's nothing of me.
Like, everything that I've,you know, invested into is worth
nothing.
And then.
But if you can stay in it, Ido think that's not true.
Those are all the lies that webelieve as entrepreneurs.
Right.
So there.
That's my.
Yeah, we could talk about thatfor, like, the next hour.
(24:12):
But I really want to hear whathappens next, because there's so
many lies that we tell.
Tell ourselves as businessowners and as women.
Yeah.
So we're in 2011.
So.
So we.
We recognized that again, sortof this thing that we were building
was what we wanted to bring tothe city, that, that's really where
(24:32):
we wanted to be.
I.
I'm gonna pause for just aminute and kind of go, like, it's
so funny.
I've never thought of loving Rochester.
Like, now I know, you know,you got your Rochester earrings,
right?
Like a Rochester sweatshirt on.
You know, think 2011.
Like, that was not a dialogue,you know, that existed.
(24:56):
And.
And I grew up in Rochester,and I don't know, I just didn't think
to say I loved it.
Right.
Like, it just was a place thatyou grow up.
And I think the decision tomove into the city and to create
a community that actuallyloved our city really was intentional.
(25:17):
And we saw that, you know,when we sort of were doing our exploration
of specialty coffee, thatthese specialty coffee places weren't
just about serving amazing coffee.
They actually were hubs ofpeople who loved the city that they
lived in and advocated for thecity that they lived in because they
wanted to grow something thatwas bigger than coffee or good cocktails
(25:41):
or good tequila or, you know,places to hang out.
Like, they wanted somethinglarger than that.
And so what I sort of say is2011, not just that we moved, but
I really, truly knew that wewere starting what I call a coffee
movement and that, you know,eventually the movement would move
(26:01):
outside of our door.
Right?
Because movements, like, amovement's not one place, A movement's
not, you know, one restaurantor one coffee place.
A movement kind of explodesinto the city.
But it took a little while.
2011, we moved in, we openedour espresso bar.
You know, we started doingpour overs and all these crazy things
(26:23):
with coffee that nobody wasdoing, and.
And started talking coffee inreally different ways.
And, you know, I always saythat you either loved us or absolutely
hated us.
There was sort of no in between.
But thankfully, enough peopleloved us that, you know, we started
to grow.
Oh, my gosh.
I remember walking into jobingon university.
(26:45):
Is this when you were on university?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And just being like, I didn'tknow you can make coffee like that,
right?
Taking so long.
But, no, it was just so cool.
Like, as like, a geek, I wasjust like, anything that's new and
different and interesting, Iwas like, wait, what is.
What are they doing?
And I would just, like, watchall the different ways people would
(27:06):
order their coffee being made.
And it was just the coolestthing ever, because no one was doing
it.
Yeah, we had.
Well, in Rochester, nobody wasdoing it.
Nobody.
And.
And we had.
We served.
Boy, I think it was like sixor seven different brewing methods.
I mean, it was ridiculous.
Like, but but we did that totake coffee out of where it was and
(27:27):
bring it into.
To where we saw.
And you almost have to, Ithink, when you sort of change over
how people look at somethingthat they know all the time, right?
Like, they look at, you know,a drink is a drink and coffee is
a coffee, and, you know, foodis food, you know, so you have to
shake it up in some way inorder to take them out of that, you
know, mode.
(27:47):
And so I think that's why wedid so many crazy things, you know,
at the beginning, which waslike, coffee's not just coffee.
It's grown by people, andit's, you know, it's tasty and wonderful,
and by the way, you could doall these great things.
Things with it.
And we started educating.
Like, that was a big piece ofwhat we did on university.
We did classes, and, you know,we started talking coffee in very
(28:08):
different ways and reallybuilding a community of people who
were focused on Rochester andon coffee and on food and local and,
you know, all the things thatI think that we see now in our city
that has developed.
The poutine truck was thefirst food, you know, food truck
in Rochester.
And they.
They came and were rightoutside my door.
(28:31):
I remember talking to Lizzyand being like, yeah, why don't we
have that food truck thing,you know, outside our door?
The eat me ice cream ladieswould come.
Like, a lot was happening in 2011.
So, yeah, fast forward.
We.
We.
We were solid.
We did that for seven years, right?
(28:52):
And really, really busy.
But I think, you know, we kindof came to another spot.
And as I said before, youknow, for me, I could have done that
for forever, right?
But I think you come to thesespots where you recognize that maybe
something needs to change.
And I think in that moment, itwas mainly for Dena and for Ben.
Things needed to change.
(29:13):
I think they were both.
That's my son.
They were both our businesspartners, and they were just really
burnt out.
We were open so seven days aweek, from morning until midnight
most days.
We were doing a thousand events.
We were running a fullkitchen, a full bar, full bunch of
events.
And then, you know, in themidst of all of that, coffee was
exploding in Rochester.
(29:34):
So, you know, you sort ofstart to see the writing on the wall
that you're.
You're now competing againstinstead of nobody, which we really
weren't competing against anybody.
Now we're competing against,you know, 10, 15 spots, you know,
that all kind of look like us.
And, well, and the competitionblew up on the chain side.
Too.
So you have way more locallyowned and operated coffee shops.
(29:56):
Right.
You see them popping up, butyou also have those drive thrus that
are exploding.
Yes, Rochester.
Yes, you're right, Kelly.
And you know what's interesting?
Both Dunkin Donuts andStarbucks were really not in the
city.
And you know, they're, theirmodel is to look where coffee is
happening.
And so, and then, and then land.
(30:18):
And so here all of theseindependents were making coffee happen
and they're like, Rochester isa great coffee scene.
What's like so, so then they land.
So you're right.
So now you're up againsteverybody, you know, locally.
And I don't want to say it ina bad way, but it is true.
Like, and I really do loveeveryone in the Rochester coffee
scene.
I know most of them and youknow, it is one kind of big, you
(30:41):
know, community but you know,you're still trying to survive financially
and so somebody is.
There's only so many customersand they're all going to make choices,
you know, of where to go.
And now you've got these otherdrive throughs in the mix so they're
going to make those choices as well.
So you know, your customerbase gets ever so slightly stretched
and when you have, you know,small margins and you're trying to
(31:05):
make life work, that stretchcan be difficult.
Add in 201617 we actuallywere, we were growing and so we bought
a new roaster and it was likethe lemon of all roasters piece of
equipment that was reallychallenging and ended up putting
me once again in a legal battle.
(31:25):
I've had two pretty big legal battles.
So if anybody out there wantsto talk to me about how to do that,
I can help.
I never thought I'd be in anyway an expert, and I'm not an expert,
but I do know how to navigatesome of that.
But it was a lot.
And so 2019, we just made thischoice to look at what we were doing
(31:46):
and to pare it back.
And roasting has always.
And in that time we werestarting to direct source.
So Ben was going to origin, hewas going to Colombia, Costa Rica,
Guatemala.
Like we were really getting toknow our farming partners way better
and recognizing how much welove that and how much we could bring
that to the Rochester coffeescene or the regional coffee scene
(32:09):
and how, you know, excitingthat whole aspect of the business
was for us.
And so we also had been seeingroasteries around the country building
out kind of their roasteryalmost like a brewery.
So, you know, there was thisnew model kind of going on where
you would build yourproduction space and then you would
house your espresso bar withinyour production space space.
(32:31):
So that was our originalthought in 2019, was to build out
our production space and buildour espresso bar, you know, in the
front and kind of do more likethe classes and, you know, bring
our farming partners into thespace and have people meet them.
So we, we did that.
(32:51):
So 2018, we closed on university.
Our lease was up too, so thetiming was kind of good.
And then we built out ourspace right around the corner on
Blossom in 2019.
Had our farming partner fromNicaragua come for our grand opening.
People loved him.
He was awesome to have there.
Had our farming partner fromGuatemala come.
(33:12):
It was super fun.
And then Covid hit damn it.
There it is.
So, you know, it was funny.
We did some of the stuff thatwe thought we would do in 2019 and
we.
We built out our website, webuilt out our home subscription program,
like a lot of ways to.
Then ended up being thefoundation of where we are right
(33:32):
now.
And then 2020 hit and all ofthe things that we built in 2019
digitally really became ourpath forward and where we needed
to be.
Like, our home subscriptionprogram took off.
Our online sales took off,really helped us survive.
You know, what we all know wasa wild year.
Wild years, right?
(33:53):
Yeah.
But the front of the housechanged radically.
Like, we had seating andeverything in there.
We had taken it away.
And then by the time you couldput it back, we needed the space.
Like, our production was busyand so.
And we didn't have the team toman it.
Like everybody, you know, hadkind of gone their own way as far
as our barista team.
Rightfully so.
(34:13):
Not in a bad way, but, youknow, so we just were in a very different
spot.
When it said you could bringall that back, we're like, well,
we're sort of done.
And so, you know, now here we are.
Today we're.
We're mainly focused on onlineand home subscriptions, but, you
know, also wholesale and.
And co packing is kind of abig, big part of our world too.
(34:34):
So.
So there.
I know.
Can you explain what.
So there's our 20 year historyin way too long.
I'm sorry.
Not at all.
So, Cath, Kathy, what is copacking for the listener that doesn't
know.
Sure.
So we.
We actually private label, Iguess, for a few other brands.
(34:55):
A few of them are.
Are regional and one of themis national and our name is not on
it.
Some we source coffee for andother ones they source their own
Coffee.
Because we have such greatrelationships at the farm level,
we're able to help withsourcing, and a lot of them are taking
(35:16):
advantage of that.
So.
So.
So, you know, people may besurprised to know there are roasters
that don't always roast.
Roasting is especially.
Sourcing in 2020 became reallytricky, and unless you had built
a.
A very solid network offarming partners, it was hard to
(35:38):
get your hands on inventory.
And so that's what we can kindof bring to the table.
And that's how we startedhelping some other, you know, sort
of regional roasters whodidn't have that.
So we have.
We kind of help them keepgoing so they can.
So you do the work and thenyou put their label on it?
Yes, that's exactly it.
So we help them source andthen we roast it, and then we put
(35:59):
their label on it.
It.
So we're not on there at all.
I think it's a great valuethat we can bring to other businesses
that, you know, want to keepthat brand going, but don't have
some of the infrastructurethat we've built out, you know, over
the last few years.
And you talk.
Sorry, I was gonna say, youtalked about the technical stuff
(36:20):
that you guys built.
And I just want to say yourwebsite's amazing, and for anybody
listening that needs to learnabout some of the things that we
talked about in the past halfan hour or however long we've been
telling your story.
You guys kind of break it downfor people like, you know, what the
different things mean, how touse them appropriately.
So if you want to be a bettercoffee drinker, you should go to
the jobing website and lookaround and see some of the tips and
(36:44):
tricks, because it is.
It is great.
You guys do a great job.
Thank you.
Kelly.
Yeah, I assume you're kind ofreferring to our blog.
And, you know, one of thethings we struggled with over the
last few years was so muchdialogue happened around our espresso
bar of, you know, peoplecoming in and saying, hey, I.
(37:04):
I can't make coffee at homethe way you guys make coffee.
Help me.
And, you know, what am I doing wrong?
Yeah.
And coffee is one of thosereally funny things where you think,
I can make coffee.
Everybody knows how to make coffee.
And then as soon as you start,you know, tasting better coffee and
going to coffee shops andhaving baristas make stuff for you,
then you're like, what theheck are they doing?
(37:25):
You know, that I'm not doing?
And.
And.
But we miss that.
Like, we.
We ended up missing that whenwe didn't have that, you know, in
2020 or whatever, we missedthat community of talking to people.
So then we built out the blog,we built out our YouTube and have
been trying to kind of makethat digital community answer the
questions that we know people have.
(37:46):
Because I, I get it.
Like, you bring home this bagand you think, now what?
Right.
Especially for the gifters.
Right?
We're right after theholidays, people went and got some
jobine coffee for gifts andgive it to people, and then they're
like, okay, now what?
Yeah, we get that a lot.
Yeah.
You know, so and so sent methis and I don't know what to do
with it.
(38:06):
So.
Yeah.
And, you know, it's funnylittle things.
I mean, coffee is.
Coffee is.
How does it get flavor?
Right?
How does that drink get flavored?
You know, there's just coffeegrounds, get in touch with water.
Right.
So so little tiny tweaks,like, you know, grind size and how,
how.
And timing, like how much timedoes that actually engage and what's
(38:30):
the size of the granules?
Like, you tweak those littlethings and suddenly you have an amazingly
better beverage.
So that's what we, we'rehelping people do, those tiny little
tweaks.
That's fantastic.
Can you talk quick about thesubscription boxes?
I think that's prettyincredible that you offer that.
Sure.
So we have about a dozen or sosingle origin relationships.
(38:54):
So, you know, one farm, onecountry, you know, one family.
Right.
That we buy from.
So Perpetual Joy is ourrotating subscription where we go
through our single origins.
So you can pick the number ofbags you want, pick the timing that
you want, and then we takecare of everything else.
So you can get it once a week,once a month, once every other week,
(39:15):
whatever you want.
And then we in this last yearadded subscriptions.
We added a decaf subscriptionand then we added blends.
We also, we do two differentsize blends.
So we do a bulk size blend andthen we do a regular smaller size
blend.
So we found that it is funny,people actually mix and match our
subscriptions.
(39:35):
So, you know, we got a lot ofpeople who.
It's like, I drink regularcoffee, but my spouse drinks decaf.
Or I want, you know, theperpetual joy, the single origins
for my home.
But I like the bulk, you know,because I.
From my office or somethinglike that.
So.
So yeah, we're.
We're continuing to kind of add.
We've got a few more that wemight add where we actually now work.
(39:58):
Work with four fully ownedwomen producers at Origin, which
I Would love to just do awhole session on women in coffee
and how important it is.
We will bring you back for that.
That sounds wonderful.
How important it is, you know,especially in some of these cultures,
seeing women fully own.
So like 80% of coffee is.
(40:19):
The workers in coffee arewomen, but usually only about 30%
of farms are actually owned by women.
So we're really excited thatwe have four fully owned women producers
that we work with and havebeen working with for years.
So I would like to make thatinto a subscription just to see everybody
like, you know.
Absolutely.
Producers.
(40:40):
Yeah, that's my dream.
Ben goes out and visits all ofthe farming partners and.
And keeps in touch with them.
But my dream is to go to theCongo and visit our women producers
in the Congo because I justadore them and think they're amazing.
And so I want to go.
(41:00):
I know, yeah.
Is that a bossy sponsored trip?
Can we make this happen?
It's funny, I've had.
When I bring it up, because Ikeep bringing.
I brought it up for the lastfew years and I bring it up and every
woman I brought it up with islike, I'll go.
And I thought, yeah, I thinkyou all have a whole plane full of
people.
I think that's a no brainer.
I am kind of not kidding.
I.
I actually would love to puttogether a.
(41:21):
A Rochester focused tripbecause these women have overcome
a lot and I think they'resuper inspirational.
So, yeah, yeah, they inspire me.
(42:33):
So on top of all of theamazing things you've already said,
your company is also a B Corp,which I don't think a lot of people
know what that means.
So if you could tell us whatthat means and why you chose to go
that route.
Sure.
So B Corp businesses arebusinesses that are for profit, but
they're also existing to do good.
(42:53):
That's sort of their basic.
So famous B Corps would belike Tom's shoes.
Right.
You know, for every pair ofshoes, you know, we help this other
thing.
Eileen Fisher, Patagonia.
These are some of the pioneersof B Corp as a movement, and we chose
to be a B Corp.
A lot of coffee roasterschoose to be B Corps because was.
(43:15):
Let's see if I can make thisreally short.
So there's certificationswithin coffee.
Fair trade and organic are twokind of famous certifications that
you can get as a coffee roaster.
But as soon as you startmeeting coffee farmers, you start
recognizing that fair tradeisn't fair and organic isn't what
you think it is.
You know, it could be what itis in the United States, but we're
(43:37):
dealing with third world countries.
And so organic certificationoftentimes is expensive for small
farms and the larger farmerscan purchase it.
And so those labels don't meannecessarily what people think they
mean.
Fair trade wages is like theminimum and not even really the minimum.
(43:57):
It hadn't changed in like 10or 15 years.
As far as like the.
You have to pay at least adollar sixty, I think a pound.
We pay easily five times that amount.
So to put a fair trade labelon something when we're paying way
above that didn't make any sense.
And so B Corp comes in andsays, okay, we'll investigate how
(44:22):
you guys are working and areyou working in a way that's ethical?
Are you working in a waythat's sustainable?
And then if you are, then,then you can join the B Corp family.
So B Corp is really hard toget and takes months.
And it is literally likesomebody looking through your underwear
drawer.
They look at absolutely everything.
(44:43):
We had to prove not just whatwe were paying, but we had to actually
prove what our farmers werepaying their workers.
We had to prove what they weredoing doing for soil conditions.
I mean like everything.
Wow.
We can.
So it was a pretty extensive.
For us, it was a prettyextensive, extensive certification.
Yeah.
B Corp is an international movement.
(45:03):
It's not a national movement,but there's, there's like a dozen
here locally in the Rochester region.
And we're actually gettingready to launch a B Corp organization.
So I love that.
Stay tuned for that.
Yeah.
And thank you for that.
Congratulations.
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, I knew the basis of it,but I never really thought about
it on the third world countrybecause I know a lot about like the,
(45:27):
the way that, you know,tequila is labeled organic and, and
those kinds of things andadditive free and like those are
all big terms in that industry.
And what that means in Mexicois different than what it means here.
And I didn't really thinkabout it as far as like third world
countries.
Yeah.
And like organic and fairtrade and that kind of thing to put
that label on it.
(45:48):
Yeah.
So I think that.
Thank you very much for, forexplaining that.
And it sounds like it's likethe perfect match for what you're
doing.
Yeah.
And a lot of specialty coffeeroasters like us choose to be a B
Corp because of that becausethere's no direct trade certification.
It just doesn't exist.
And so it's really hard for usto talk about what we do and how
(46:11):
we work when there's no easyexplanation to it, and there's no
easy certification.
So, yeah, B Corp becomes kindof the where we go.
So.
And it's a.
It's an amazing bank of resources.
Like, I, I've.
I'm only kind of scratched thesurface, but they really do.
Once you're kind of in theirfamily, there's a lot that they can
(46:34):
do for you.
So, like I said, we're laughing.
Gull Chocolates is actually aB Corp.
And so Lindsay and I aretrying to spearhead, trying to get
the B Corps together, andthat's our goal in 2025, to do a
couple of events and to try toexplain what B Corp is and answer
questions.
So.
Nice.
Yeah, Very cool.
(46:56):
Well, gosh, we're out of time,of course, and I feel like we could
still go on and on, but thankyou so much, Kathy.
We love your story.
You're incredibly tenacious.
I love that you had.
You were ready to be done.
You got some affirmations, youwrote it down, you put it out into
the universe, and it came true.
(47:17):
Coffee is truly aboutcommunity, and you've encompassed.
Encompassed that from day one.
It continues to work for you.
Even though you don't have aspace that is inviting people into
your physical space now,you're still doing it.
You still have community andit's working for you.
You're still giving back.
And all of your pivots areintentional and not reactionary.
(47:38):
Even if they are coming out ofconflict, you're using it and it's
intentional and it's, it'sjust, it's truly inspirational.
You're remarkable andtenacious, and I really appreciate
you being here.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Kelly.
Oh, my gosh, you're gonna makeme cry again.
I, I wasn't expecting to be soemotional on this call, but you guys
(48:00):
are amazing, and thank you forletting me share and being interested
in, you know, what we're doingand how we're doing it and, and that
you guys, you know, arebringing together the women entrepreneurs,
Entrepreneurs here in this region.
What an important thing to do.
I, I think there's just somuch support that comes through you
guys and, you know, thenetwork that you're building.
(48:21):
So I'm a, I'm a big fan.
So thank you.
Thank you, Kathy.
Thank you.
Wow.
Talk about growth.
Like, I love where she camefrom, like a small town coffee shop
in, like, a village to adowntown roastery where she's co
packing and has these amazing relationships.
(48:42):
But the thing that stuck outfor that interview was relationships,
right?
Like the relationship she hadthat led her to have the small town
coffee shop and thatrelationship and the relationship
she built there that led herto the transition downtown.
And the relationship she builtthere led her to the, you know, large
(49:04):
rotisserie roastery.
Roastery that she's in now.
And in that she's stillbuilding relationships.
She's got relationships withthe farmers and the producers and.
Which is, which is coffee though.
I know.
She's affirming.
She's affirming.
She's affirming.
She's affirming.
(49:24):
I know.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.
I know.
And to see it work so well forher, I'm like, come on.
All right, fine.
Maybe you're not pen.
Do you want to write it in adifferent pen?
I have so many pens and Ithink you actually gave me this mug.
I think this mug is a giftfrom you.
(49:44):
It's the.
I'm trying not very.
I'm trying very hard not toconnect with people right now.
Mug holds all my pens.
So I'm going to write my, myaffirmations in all and with all
of these pens and then I'lljust see if maybe it is in fact that
I have the wrong pen.
I have a lot of differentcolor post it notes too.
So I'll just keep writing them.
Maybe different fonts.
(50:05):
Keep writing it.
Yeah, well, and I love the,you know, just that you have to stay
in the pressure.
Like it's living in thatpressure zone.
That hurt in my soul.
It hurt my soul.
Yeah.
Because as women, it is easierto fold and I.
It's not necessarily a genderthing, but we are taught very young
(50:30):
not to push back.
Right.
And it's something that Ithink is more ingrained in our heads
because of society pressuring us.
It doesn't mean it doesn'thappen for men, but we are two fold
and not.
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