EP62: Unlocking Wellness: Integrating Naturopathic and Chinese Medicine to Heal Your Body and Achieve Optimal Health w/ Dr. Liz Carter

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
But the patients that I see the most progress also get body work because you're
right, the body stores what the mind and emotions, what we can't process.
So having a way to speak to the body in this really gentle, nourishing kind
of space helps it to process and then you can usually move forward mentally
and emotionally faster.
Music.

(00:23):
Faster. Hello, Grown Girl Gang. Welcome back to the Girl We Grow Now podcast.
I am your host, Victoria, and I am so grateful that you are here tuning back in for another episode.
If you are looking for tips, advice, and or inspiration, then you are in the right place.

(00:44):
This podcast cast was created to help you navigate life and live your most fulfilled and authentic life.
So last week, you may have noticed that there was not a new episode released.
When I tell you that I had the most hectic week,
literally, I know Mercury was in retrograde from April 1st to like the 24th,

(01:07):
But those last few days of Mercury being in retrograde, I literally felt it.
So I decided that I was not going to put an episode out.
I know that I really pride myself on putting out an episode every week,
no matter how busy I am and no matter how chaotic life may seem.

(01:28):
And I was super bummed that I did not put an episode out,
but I really decided that I needed to give myself some grace and cut myself
some slack because I had a lot of things going on and I will actually talk about
that more in next week's episode because I don't want to take away from this
episode because today's episode is with a really amazing guest and I'm so excited

(01:49):
to share her episode with you all.
So today we are wrapping up our health series.
I feel like I have learned so much this series and I'm super excited to share
this episode with you all.
For today's episode, I had the pleasure of having Dr.
Liz Carter. She is a naturopathic doctor and acupuncturist who has been practicing

(02:11):
in Seattle, Washington since 2011.
So she has a lot of experience and really her mission is to help people connect more with their bodies.
And really guide them through their healing process. We had an amazing conversation.
We really talked a lot about her line of work as a naturopathic doctor and working in Chinese medicine.

(02:33):
I feel like I learned so much and now I'm really interested in incorporating.
Naturopathic medicine into my health and wellness journey.
From this episode, you truly will gain a better understanding of what naturopathic
medicine is if you aren't that familiar because I think as As Dr.
Liz mentioned in this episode, a lot of times people don't really know the difference

(02:54):
between holistic, naturopathic, and just all the words that we hear within the wellness space.
So I think this is a really good episode to help clear some of that up and just
to give you a better understanding of what it is and if it's something that
may be ideal for you to incorporate into your health and wellness journey.
So with that being said, let's go ahead and jump into the conversation with Dr. Liz.

(03:16):
I'm so excited to have you, Dr. Liz. How are you?
I'm doing all right. Yeah, I'm really, really excited to be here.
This is going to be super fun.
Yes, it totally is. So before we get into the questions, I want to ask you a
little icebreaker that I love to ask all of my guests.
So what is your 2024 mantra or focus word that you were using to help you live
your most fulfilled life this year?

(03:37):
Yeah, you know, I'm going to go real deep, real quick. So I think for me,
my word for 2024 is remember, because I am someone who who is always really
like pushing ahead, forward thinking.
I'm quite impatient many times.
And one of my, I have a naturopathic doctor who I see regularly,

(03:58):
and she's also like a counselor for me.
And that's one of the best things she does for me is she encourages me to like
slow down, look, really think about what's going on.
And again, remember, remember how far I've come rather than just always looking
forward. Remember my support systems that I have, even my ancestors.
That's something I'm working on a lot right now to remember that I don't have

(04:20):
to just go it alone. So that is my word.
I think that's so beautiful and so powerful because I think you're right.
I think a lot of us in today's society have this, we're always looking for the
next best thing and we're always wanting something more.
And we forget that at one point we wanted the things that we have now.
So I think it's good to remember and give that gratitude as you are working

(04:41):
towards whatever it is that you're working towards. So I love that.
Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you.
So I want to know what led you to want to become a naturopathic doctor?
And can you tell us a little bit about what that is. Yeah. So I think a lot
of people, you know, find naturopathic medicine is maybe like a second career
because it's not super well known around the country.

(05:02):
For me, it is my first career, but I didn't grow up with it at all.
I had no knowledge of it. I grew up in a place where the only alternative medicine
was chiropractic. So there was a little bit, but not much.
So I wanted to be a doctor since I was five. And I went to undergraduate graduate
school with like the full intention of becoming a regular Western kind of medicine doctor.

(05:23):
And then I realized I had a really amazing family physician growing up,
even though he was in the Western medicine system.
He genuinely cared about people. He took time with people. He was compassionate.
You never felt like you were rushed or like you were a number in his office.
And as part of my college, like pre-med curriculum, which I'm very grateful
for in retrospect, they had a of shadow other doctors to be like,

(05:46):
hey, do you really want to do this?
And I did that. And I was just really, really disheartened by what I saw in
the system in terms of patient care visits were incredibly rushed.
The doctors were burned out. Their lives were run by either hospital administration
or insurance companies.
And some of them just straight up were not in the right field.
They had no empathy left for their patients.

(06:07):
And it was intense, you know, and it was really scary for me because I was like,
oh, my God, I don't know if I want to do this and go into this system.
And I kind of lost my way for about a year in college. I had no idea what I wanted to do after like.
20 years or almost 20 years of thinking I was going to go down this path.
And I ended up checking out a book from the library because it was like 2002.

(06:30):
And that was still kind of the thing instead of Googling. I think it was like
Google's new AltaVista was like the big one then.
Anyway, so I read about the principles of naturopathic medicine and Chinese
medicine. And that was like an aha moment.
I was like, oh my God, okay, I get this. I understand it. This is how I want to be with people.
You know, with naturopathic medicine, there are six core principles where first

(06:53):
do no harm, which is the same as Western medicine.
But then we also have the healing power of nature or essentially the belief
that your body has a capability of healing itself, which you can see when you
think about the healing of a cut or a bruise.
You're not directing your body to heal it. It just does.
And it does that every single second of every single day, even though we don't always see that happen.

(07:17):
Other principles are treat the whole person, treat the root cause, doctor as teacher.
So really emphasizing the importance of educating patients about their health, about their body.
That's one of my very favorite things to do.
And yeah, and prevention. So that's what really drew me in.
And it was kind of wild. I didn't have any practical experience with the medicine.

(07:38):
I kind of got to shadow one person, but that was enough that it made me apply
to naturopathic school and also had Chinese medicine in there where I did two
degrees at the same time.
I read a book on Chinese medicine was like, yes, this is furthering what I want to know.
So that's what I did. You know, it was I kind of applied, I was accepted.
And I moved from the Midwest all the way out to Seattle in within like five

(08:01):
or six months. So yeah, that is really cool.
And just going back to when you mentioned just how when you were going through
I think your residency and your shadowing and you noticed that some of the empathy
and bedside manner was kind of lost.
I love that you say that because I'm really big on that.
And we as patients, we can feel that even maybe I'm a little too sensitive to it.
But even when I go and get my blood drawn and the person is so cold knowing

(08:22):
that I hate needles, they're about to stick one in me and draw my blood.
It just makes me feel so uncomfortable. And just I wish that they even had empathy
like when I'm going to get my blood drawn too, because I think it does make a difference.
Absolutely. I mean, to me, that's the foundation to any good medicine,
in my opinion, is the relationship between the provider and the patient.

(08:42):
And if that is not there, if that's not honored and respected and built with
trust and rapport, what are we even doing?
And I do think that Western medicine, in some aspects, not all providers,
has lost sight of that to a certain extent.
And it's tough. It's tough, I think, both for the providers,
because they're kind of in a system that forces them.

(09:02):
To act in a similar way with that. And then it's really hard on patients.
Yeah. Actually, for the last year, I've gotten into functional medicine.
I've been using a company called Parsley Health and I've been getting into that.
And I feel like I have learned a lot more about my body.
And so I think that is like something that sounds a little bit similar to naturopathic,
just the teaching method, because I feel like a lot of times they would just

(09:23):
be like, hey, get this, get this.
Here's the prescription for this. And it's like, okay, but I'm like someone
who naturally asked a lot of questions. So I always had questions.
Sometimes they would answer.
Sometimes they were just like, you know, kind of would shy away from the answer.
But I think the beautiful thing is like when you have a practice like this and
it's about teaching because we all should have that knowledge of what's going
on in our body and what our body needs, because I feel like it's empowering.

(09:45):
And then when you know what's going on inside your body, I feel like for me
personally, I'm more likely to change my lifestyle or whatever needs to be changed
because I know how crucial it is. Absolutely.
Yeah, I think that's a really big piece of it where I think a huge part of like
lifestyle modification motivation comes from knowing the why because we're all

(10:06):
so busy and overwhelmed.
And if we don't know why somebody is telling us to do this, like it's kind of
out the window, like whatever, I'm never going to get to it.
It's not that important.
But if you take the time to connect the dots, this affects, you know, your liver.
So therefore, you want to do X, Y and Z. And that's going to help with your
eczema and your gut stuff.
And you know, that is a big part of naturopathic medicine. And at least for
me as a provider, that's a huge piece of what I like to do is that education,

(10:29):
which is why I'm on Instagram and make a whole bunch of reels and posts,
just trying to get that information out there for people.
Because I know in my own healing journey, that was absolutely transformational
when I had providers who did that and took the time to really see me and hear
me and connect those dots.
Even though I was learning about it in school, it was still amazing to have

(10:51):
that reflected to me from my own provider as well. I know you told us the core
principles of naturopathic medicine, but is that the same as Chinese medicine
or is that a little bit different?
So it is a little bit different. There's a lot of overlap, which is why I think
they're very complementary and why I practice them together,
because they essentially, they really do look at the body in the same kind of

(11:13):
way, where, you know, in Western medicine.
Symptoms need to be squashed, they're bad, they're making us uncomfortable,
and the body essentially doesn't know what it's doing.
In both naturopathic medicine and Chinese medicine, there's this belief that
symptoms are messengers.
They're leading us deeper into what the root cause could be.
The body is intelligent.

(11:34):
If it's creating discomfort, there is always a reason behind that discomfort.
And it's our job to help our patients get to the bottom of why that might be
happening. And then there are some unique concepts in Chinese medicine as well.
I'm sure you've probably heard of yin. I say yin and yang.
That's how I learned it. Other people say yin and yang. You know,
the white and the black, the interrelated concepts where they're like two sides of the same coin.

(11:57):
They're always defined in relation to each other. So in Chinese medicine, it's all about balance.
It's just bringing the system back into balance. So we need to have the right
amount of yin, which is this cooling, nurturing, restorative, dark force.
We can think about like a still lake on a moonlit night. That's a really nice visual of what yin is.

(12:18):
And we have to balance that with yang, which is this bright,
heating, active kind of go, go, go energy.
So like sunshine on a bright afternoon day, sky is completely clear.
So those two forces are everywhere in the universe. They're within us. They're within nature.
And bringing those into relative balance can help to restore our health.
And that's the last piece of Chinese medicine philosophy that is really unique

(12:41):
is that humans are intimately connected with nature.
We are the natural world. The natural world is us. There's no separation.
So we can literally look to nature to understand ourselves better.
We can look at a tree and how it is flexible and adaptable in the wind,
yet it's still rooted and grounded.
We can look at a fire and how it naturally draws people to it to sit around and tell stories.

(13:06):
All of that is a microcosm for the five elements within our body,
which are wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. So those are found in nature,
and they're also found within us.
So yeah, that's part of the unique piece of Chinese medicine, I think.
And one of my favorite things is checking in with those element balances within
people, and everybody has two of the five elements that influence them the most.

(13:30):
So that's part of my job is to diagnose those and then kind of come up with
supportive measures or treatments to help balance those out within people.
That is really interesting.
So when you mentioned the five elements, and then just the different core principles.
So how do like you as a naturopathic doctor use that to diagnose health conditions?

(13:51):
Yeah, you know, it's different. Again, it's a very different concept with diagnosis.
You know, with Western medicine, it's very, very, like, specific.
Like, they want to get down to the cellular receptor that is the issue, right?
And we call that, like, reductionistic. You know, it's a big funnel that comes
down to this tiny thing. In naturopathic medicine, we tend to look a lot more

(14:12):
at systems and what systems are imbalanced or struggling.
So I would look at skin, I would look at nervous system, I would look at endocrine,
which is about your hormones, I would look at digestive, all of these,
so circulatory. So it's a much wider scope.
And in that way, we do have specific therapies, but many of our therapies are

(14:32):
meant to benefit at least one, usually multiple systems at a time.
And that's where we kind of get
this nourishment in your whole health and improvement in your whole being.
Chinese medicine is similar, where we're also, we're kind of taking a zoomed
out approach where there are like symptoms that correlate with certain imbalances, for sure.

(14:54):
It's also kind of wild because in Chinese medicine, there are like six different
kinds of headaches and all of your different, yeah,
all of your different symptom patterns matter because it's saying,
okay, well, this headache is related to the liver or this headache is related
to your spleen, which is your main digestive organ in Chinese medicine.
And just a little caveat, when I say organs in Chinese medicine,
they are similar to the Western concepts of organs, but they're not entirely the same.

(15:19):
They also have mental and emotional correlations with them.
And that's usually where we are in Chinese medicine and acupuncture is kind
of balancing those before we get to any like physical, oh my gosh,
your liver has physical issues going on with it.
That's, that's not, not, I don't want to freak anybody out. That's not usually
where we're going with it. So yeah, so they're,

(15:39):
two very different, unique ways of looking at the body and health,
but again, complementary and very different than Western medicine, for sure.
So when you are looking at it, are you looking and asking your patient questions
or are they getting labs and getting like 50 vials of blood drawn like I do?
So like kind of what's that approach?
That's such a great question. Yeah, there's so for naturopathic medicine,

(16:02):
I guess I'm what you would call a vitalist or practicing nature cures.
So we tend to minimize labs and supplements and really focus on kind of symptom
picture and what is the root cause that we need to work on.
You know, we always ask if I order this lab or give them the supplement,
will that change my treatment plan?
And if the answer is no, then okay, let's work on the basics,

(16:25):
the foundations of health with more water, good sleep, good diet that's not inflammatory.
Good social relationships with loved ones, downtime and rest,
all of those core foundational things I tend to gravitate to before doing lots
of labs and supplements.
I also find that lifestyle changes, they are the biggest bang for your buck.
They are the hardest for sure, but in terms of improving your health,

(16:48):
they do make the biggest difference.
You know, supplements can kind of help with a temporary imbalance, right?
Where they can kind of be like a crutch to kind of get you moving.
But if you're not doing the underlying kind of lifestyle support and change.
Then a lot of times you'll end up needing more supplements, or it just won't
quite get you to where you need to be. And

(17:09):
Yeah, Chinese medicine wise. So I practice two types of acupuncture.
There's traditional Chinese medicine and five element, and they're both very different.
Traditional Chinese medicine is mostly based on physical ailments.
And then five element is much more mental, emotionally, spiritually based.
So when I am diagnosing imbalances from a five element perspective,

(17:31):
I am really paying attention to you as you walk into my office.
I'm looking at the color of your skin.
I'm listening to the tone and quality of your voice. I'm looking at the emotion
that is coming through for you that's the strongest.
All of that leads me to a diagnosis of which element is going to be out of balance for you.
So it's much less about the content of what you're saying, even though that's important.

(17:53):
Not saying it's not, but there is this whole kind of persona and kinesthetic
feel that someone walks in with that tells me a lot about what the treatment
might need to look like for them that day for acupuncture?
When I think of acupuncture, I think of the little needle. So it sounds like
there's more to it, but is that the main treatment that you do?
Yeah. You know, mine is unique. So I will say, yes, if you're just getting an

(18:14):
acupuncture treatment, you know, the needles are the main thing. You know, they're tiny.
They're not quite less than the width of your hair. They're about the width
of your hair. They're flexible.
They are solid, right? So they're not a hollow needle that's going to like push
something in or take something out. So they tend to be really comfortable.
But yeah, so with acupuncture, that's a huge piece of it and then some people
will add on cupping there's also gua sha which is a chinese form of body work

(18:39):
tuina is another form of body work it just depends on your practitioner and
what skills they are using in in each treatment for sure and then i blend,
three types of therapies into my visits. I do naturopathic medicine,
acupuncture, mainly five element, and then craniosacral therapy,
which is a wonderfully gentle form of body work that works really nicely with

(19:02):
the acupuncture, wonderful for nervous system relaxation overall.
So yeah, so there's a lot in there. There's probably a large answer for your question.
Yes, but it is really cool because it does sound like a very whole approach.
It's It's not just the lifestyle. It's not just the diagnosis,
but it sounds like, like I haven't even heard of Gua Sha for the body.
I know Gua Sha for your face because I've heard of like somatic therapy and

(19:24):
like just how our body like holds a lot of our trauma and a lot of different things.
So it sounds like you're getting in there, getting the body work,
you're getting the inner work.
So it just sounds like you're healing everything, which is really cool to me
because I don't think I've ever heard of that within like a medicine.
Because when I think of the doctor or medicine, I either think of traditional
Western medicine or now functional medicine. But I feel like this is a very unique approach.

(19:46):
So I think it's really cool. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and it is rare.
It's more rare to see somebody integrate all of these things.
I was lucky enough to have a couple mentors who also integrated modalities,
and I experienced that medicine and loved it.
And that's a huge piece of what inspired me to move forward in that way and
offer that to my patients.

(20:07):
I also can do that because I'm not contracted with insurance.
Because insurance will make you put things into little boxes as a provider and
we're only going to reimburse this or we're only going to reimburse that.
So I didn't really want them dictating how I got to treat my patients,
which is why I decided to kind of do this integrated thing, not be within the insurance system.

(20:29):
And yes, you absolutely nailed it with the inner work and the outer work.
That's what I received and had profound changes in my health and my life.
And that's what I wanted to provide for everyone.
And those are the people that I see make the most progress in their life if
they get body work as well as, you know, I know therapy, it's very popular right
now. Everybody's thinking about it and talking about it.

(20:50):
But the patients that I see the most progress also get body work because you're
right, the body stores what the mind and emotions, what we can't process.
So having a way to speak to the body in this really gentle, nourishing kind
of space helps it to process.
And then you can usually move forward mentally and emotionally faster than if
you didn't have that work done. I think that's amazing.

(21:12):
And even going back to what you're saying about how you start more with lifestyle
changes versus going straight into supplements and testing, literally everything
that you said that you do with the lifestyle.
The sleep, the social connection, that's literally, I've gotten all this blood
work and literally those are the things that I have to work on.
So it makes so much sense just to start there. And then maybe like after you're

(21:32):
your patient or the person has nailed that, then seeing maybe testing if it's
necessary, but that makes so much sense. And honestly, I feel like it would save a lot of money.
Yes. I mean, honestly, that's why I do it because I'm with you.
I understand testing can be vital in some circumstances, and that's part of
our training is to figure out, okay, is this person iron deficient and I really

(21:54):
need to check their iron levels and see what's going on, or do they have an
inflammatory disease or a blood disorder or a thyroid issue?
Okay, we need to do some testing upfront for sure.
But I understand, I think a lot of functional medicine is, you know,
they test so then they can put you on the specific protocols.
And, you know, sometimes that's incredibly valuable. And then other times,

(22:14):
you know, yes, I think those foundational pieces usually always need to be addressed.
And I get it. I'm very sensitive to like the upfront cost of tons of supplements in labs.
And that's not something that I like to dive into for people right away and
just be a lot more conscious and thoughtful about like, do you actually need
this to make a difference?

(22:35):
Yeah, I know for me, like I had to remind myself that a supplement is to supplement
your healthy lifestyle.
So if I can't get the basic healthy things and habits down, then I can really,
especially since I don't have a dire need for most of these,
I could probably hold off on it.
But I do understand what you said about some people, if there's certain deficiencies
that are severe, then yes.
But I just think if you're, you know, eating overly processed food,

(22:59):
refined sugars, and then you're taking supplements. I just don't know how effective that would be.
I totally 100% agree with you. Yeah, you're not you're not addressing the root cause.
And this is this is kind of the issue sometimes with supplementation that I
see is and herbs and whatever other thing they can get in a bottle,
you know, because we're also used to the understanding of how Western medicine

(23:20):
works and that, you know, okay, well, you take a pill for that.
People think about prescribing naturopathic medicine or natural therapies in
the same way, You know, we're like, okay, I'm going to replace this drug with
a supplement, but the drugs are.
Almost never, they're not working on the root cause. They're covering up your symptoms.
So if you're using the herbs or the supplements in the same way,
we're still not getting to the root cause and you're not going to have the lasting

(23:43):
change that you're looking for in most cases.
I literally saw someone talking about that today, how they got off this medicine
and all the problems came back. So I think just your approach is really amazing.
Can you tell us about the concept of qi in Chinese medicine and its significance
in maintaining health? So chi is another one of those big philosophical concepts.

(24:03):
So the idea is that chi is in everything.
It makes up the universe. Your pencil has chi, your blood has chi,
the sky has chi, the universe has chi.
And that's how we are all connected as humans to the universe.
So there are different types and qualities of
qi that's part of what you know we'll kind of look into

(24:25):
or you know i said like the kinesthetic feel of somebody
when they come into my office that has to do with their
qi is it balanced is it out of balance is it the liver
qi that's off is it the spleen qi that's off as a heart qi so
yeah qi is is incredibly important and it's
it's kind of in naturopathic medicine it's similar to like vitality or
our life force it's not one-to-one but that is

(24:45):
kind of part of the thought behind qi the simplest translation which
maybe i should have started with is energy no that
makes so much sense but you also talked about vitality and
what was the other one life oh vitality or life force they're
kind of similar yeah okay but that's on the naturopathic side of things so it's
basically you also look at energy in naturopathic medicine right yeah there's

(25:06):
a whole thing about assessing vitality essentially you know and that that comes
down to i think the ultimate treatment goal in naturopathic medicine is we want
to increase someone's vitality.
Because when we do that, the body functions better, it can do its work better,
it can heal you up better.
So in that way, we're not always trying to direct the body in a certain way,

(25:26):
like do this one really specific thing. It's more like, let me just give you...
More energy, and you are intelligent. So you're going to use it the best way that you know how.
And there are some specific ways we see things heal up for sure.
You can see the vitality kind of increasing as you go, which can be a little
confusing if you've never been through a healing process. It's a little hard
to interpret sometimes.

(25:48):
But yeah, I think vitality is a really important concept in naturopathic medicine for sure.
Yeah, I guess I just find it so interesting because it sounds like as a provider,
you'd have to be very, well, obviously you have your training,
but it sounds like you also have to be very intuitive with this training,
like to be able to like see somebody come in and notice all these different things.
But again, like I know you had training, but that just to me,
it's a little mind blowing and cool all at the same time. Makes me want to try it.

(26:11):
Yeah. And I will say, you know, that is the part that I really enjoy.
I love those little observations. I love learning about personality types.
I like understanding what makes people work.
And then I am a very kinesthetic person. So, you know, I can feel kind of some
of the energy that somebody is bringing into a treatment room.
And I'm sure many providers can for sure. So there is that intuitive side.

(26:32):
And then with vitality, there are more objective measures, you know,
where yes, you can look at labs for sure.
But you can also just listen to somebody's story and basically how well you
think they're processing emotions or not.
If there's a lot of suppression that lowers vitality, if they have chronic health
conditions, how long have they been going on?
How long has it been unaddressed? You know, if somebody comes in with back pain.

(26:56):
For me, it's very different if somebody's had it for 40 years versus two weeks, right?
That's a difference in, you know, how I'm going to treat them and in vitality.
And then, you know, what's their environment like?
Is it actually allowing them to lead a healthy lifestyle if they wanted to?
Or is it something that they're fighting against?
So there's a lot of kind of measures you can tune into when you're just asking

(27:19):
somebody about their life to kind of do that vitality assessment for sure.
Actually, I love that you mentioned environment because I think it hinders a lot of us.
So I don't know if you do have any tips on how someone could overcome their
environment to make those healthier habits. it?
Oh my gosh, that is like a million dollar question for sure.
I would say, you know, the way I work with people around it is I think the first

(27:42):
step is figuring out which parts of your environment are changeable and which aren't, right?
Because some, you know, you're just, you're stuck in a job that doesn't work
for you, but you have to pay the bills and you don't have any other options.
Okay, that's something that we can't move right now. But what can we do to support
you until tell you're kind of getting moving forward into something else that

(28:05):
that might work better for you. Right. And it usually, again,
it's those foundational stuff.
There's a lot of counseling that I do around that, too, with just trying to
help people see many things about themselves, how capable they are,
how difficult the situation is, I think just empathizing with like,
yeah, that's really hard.
Just helping people feel validated and heard is a huge piece of helping them shift.

(28:28):
And then sometimes the acupuncture treatments really line up for them.
And because five element is more mentally and emotionally based,
they can end up making those shifts. But some of it is behavioral.
And you know, we only have control over ourselves. So that's usually what I've.
Encourage people to focus on. And in naturopathic medicine, there is a concept
called obstacle to cure.

(28:50):
So the idea there, and it applies to many environments, is that there's this
elephant in the room, you know, let's say it's a really crazy, stressful job.
And I'll talk to people about it where it's like, okay, let's work on all these
other things that we can work to help you compensate around this elephant in the room.
But you have to realize that we might only get so far in your progress until

(29:14):
this elephant in the room is addressed and that it will have to likely be addressed
at some point if you want your health to progress farther.
And some people don't. Some people are like, you know what, this is good enough
for right now, and that's totally fine.
And then other people are like, okay, yeah, now I've got the energy,
my health has improved here, I actually can take this on.

(29:34):
So I hope that was helpful. Yes, I love that. I feel like it's very much so
like you're meeting people where they're at and then giving them the power of
choice of how far they want to go to get healthier. So I think that's amazing.
I think you've already answered this question, but if you have anything else
to add. So how does naturopathic and Chinese medicine treatment address the
root cause of health issues rather than just treating the symptom?

(29:54):
Yes, I think I did speak to some of that. I think, you know,
we are looking deeper than symptoms for sure.
You know, they are messengers. We're trying to get to the root of why is this occurring?
And I think that's the question that's the most important for us is really encouraging
people to self-reflect. A lot of times our
And I wish I could, I wish I had like a magic ball to be like,

(30:16):
this is why, you know, sometimes it is obvious. And I'm like,
okay, well, let's start here. Let's do this.
And then many times we check these boxes, and things are still happening.
You know, it's like, okay, well, we got your sleep better, we got your emotions
processing better, whatever else.
And usually, you know, it is that empowerment that you were speaking of earlier,
you know, that people kind of have to take charge and be like,

(30:36):
okay, like, this keeps happening.
I've made these improvements. improvements what in my life is
triggering this or setting this off you know and
sometimes it ends up being a diet diary or just writing down
things that happen throughout your day to try to understand the correlations
to what are creating these symptoms because when we can answer that question
that's when we get to the root cause and i want to make sure too it's usually

(30:59):
not just one root cause which again i think we're used to thinking that way
in western medicine where where it's like, okay, A to B to C, linear, got it, good.
In naturopathic medicine, in Chinese medicine, it's very much so multiple things usually.
And I'll talk to people about it where it's like, okay, we'll try this thing.
For some people, this resolves 80% and they're pretty good with that.

(31:20):
For other people, we only get about 30% and it's going to be like X,
Y, and Z, these other pieces of your health that we also need to work on.
So it's kind of like this whole circle approach, right? Where we have to like
address, I look at it as like spokes on a wheel almost, you know,
where if one piece of that is off kilter, the wheel isn't going to rotate very well, you know?

(31:42):
So we have to address all of those aspects in order to improve health overall,
usually. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really important.
So what are some common treatment modalities used in naturopathic and Chinese
medicine, acupuncture work, herbal medicine, all the things, diet therapy?
Yeah, I think that's where some people get really confused because naturopathic
medicine does have a lot of modalities.

(32:03):
We learn a ton of different ways to work with the body.
So there's kind of naturopathic medicine that we talked about a bit with philosophy.
There's naturopathic medicine also was built on what's called hydrotherapy.
So basically water therapy originated in Germany.
And we're kind of like the OG of the cold plunge, you know, that's so popular now.

(32:25):
We do it a little differently than, you know, the extreme guys like Wim Hof.
But, you know, that's part of our training is, you know, how water helps people's
health that way. So naturopathic medicine has that basis.
It has botanical medicine included as homeopathy. It has physical medicine like
some naturopaths, at least in our scope in Washington, you can do adjustments

(32:45):
like chiropractors. We can do massage.
There's all kinds of stuff that is included under the umbrella of naturopathic medicine.
Yeah, diet and lifestyle counseling, counseling in general, you know,
that's part of what I do where I'm not a therapist, but it's kind of like I
am a little bit in my appointments, but I really enjoy that.
So that's part of the, I would say the beauty and the frustration of naturopathic

(33:08):
medicine and maybe natural modalities in general. Whereas I think in Western
medicine, it can be very cookie cutter and like you go to one provider and you
get the same thing or the same answer.
But in naturopathic medicine, it's very different depending on your provider
and then what modalities they've chosen to really emphasize in their practice.
And that can be great because you can find somebody who's unique.

(33:30):
Style of medicine really works for you, which is wonderful.
And yeah, Chinese medicine, we talked about that a little bit where there's
the gua sha, which is definitely more aggressive on the body than on the facial.
The facial gua sha, very soothing, calming. Body gua sha, a little intense.
And then tuina, cupping. There's all kinds of different things in that,
in acupuncture and Chinese medicine, herbal medicine, that kind of thing.

(33:52):
So with a gua sha for the body, is the purpose similar to lymphatic drainage
massages or it's very different.
Yeah, you know, that could be part of it. That's definitely not how I learned it.
You know, the main place that I learned it for, and you can do it all over the
body, it's relevant, but is kind of at the base of your neck,
especially when you're getting sick.

(34:12):
So the idea in Chinese medicine, this is called your wind gate down here,
and that evil qi or pathogens enter at the wind gate.
And that can be why a lot of people get stiff necks when they're starting to get sick.
So one of the early ways to help prevent actually getting completely sick is
to do gua sha over your wind gate here because it does something called release the exterior.

(34:36):
So essentially, that pathogen is trying to get into your body and you rub pretty
aggressively with gua sha over this.
It opens it up and it releases that pathogen instead of allowing it to go deeper into the body.
And you get these little kind of red petechiae or bruising marks there.
And then some people do it just for pain relief, where there's a lot of tension.

(34:58):
And in Chinese medicine, we call it stagnation, when we can feel tightness in the muscles.
And you can do gua sha in those areas as well to release that.
And with that, it's much more, it's deeper strokes, and then usually faster and back and forth.
Whereas the facial gua sha is very, yes, very light and pleasant.
The other gua sha, I wouldn't say it's unpleasant. I would just say it's very

(35:18):
different and it can be a lot more.
Intent. So if you are going to acupuncture for the first time and somebody wants
to do Gua Sha and you're just familiar with the facial, just know it's probably
going to be a little more intense.
That is good to know. But I feel like I'm someone who carries a lot of tension
in my shoulder. So I think Gua Sha might be good for me. Totally.
Yeah, I agree. Gua Sha and then cupping also excellent. Really amazing for working

(35:40):
on that muscular tension for sure.
I'm going to have to add those for things for me to try because I'm actually
I've seen the aftermath of cupping, like people having the little round things,
but I guess I've just never really understood what it was for.
Yeah, definitely musculoskeletal tension for sure.
And usually, you know, when people are on my table, I'm assessing kind of their

(36:01):
muscle tissue and texture and the tension.
And that's part of deciding, you know, is cupping appropriate? Is it not?
And then, you know, people can have different responses to the cups too.
Sometimes you have those really dark purple marks.
Sometimes you put a cup on and there's not much that comes up and that's okay.
That can be a couple different things.
But yeah, it's very, it's a great therapy. And again, it's a little more,

(36:23):
I'd say it's like a, if you've had a deep massage, it can feel that way,
you know, and it's mainly working on connective tissue layers.
And, you know, if you've tight muscles that connective tissue,
it should glide like this, but it gets like stuck together.
So the cupping helps it to glide again, because it's literally kind of,
I wouldn't say ripping, but it's moving those layers apart.

(36:43):
So you can feel it move those layers apart, heart, but afterwards it feels really
great because everything's more loosened up. That sounds really awesome.
So how does acupuncture work to promote healing and balance within the body?
You know, it's very similar to naturopathic medicine and our discussion about
vitality and that our treatments are really just trying to increase the body's own healing abilities.

(37:05):
So to me, that's the core of acupuncture. That's the core of how I think about
my acupuncture treatments is how can we bring the elements within the body or
the organs or the channels, whatever I'm working on, usually all of those things
for somebody in treatment.
What's imbalanced and how can
I bring it back into balance? That's kind of the core of my treatments.

(37:26):
Yeah. So what, are there certain conditions or health concerns that can benefit
from acupuncture treatments or is it kind of just like all of them depending on your level?
It's a great question. And I think, you know, a lot of people are the most familiar
with acupuncture for pain.
That's like one-to-one. People get that, and that's awesome.
But, you know, acupuncture, it's a part of Chinese medicine,

(37:46):
and Chinese medicine is an entire system that's been around for thousands of
years, and it treats all complaints.
You know, if we're talking about asthma, if we're talking about autoimmune conditions,
you know, I'd say naturopathic medicine has some really good stuff in there too.
Skin issues, you know, liver disorders, all kinds of stuff.
You can really benefit a lot from, I'd say, all health conditions from getting acupuncture. Okay.

(38:12):
I agree with you, which whenever I thought about acupuncture,
I would think about pain or something like that.
So I think it is really good to know that it can be used for so much more. Absolutely.
Yeah. So how does diet therapy and naturopathic and Chinese medicine support
overall health and well-being?
Yeah. I mean, diet is it's one of those like core lifestyle issues, right?
That it can really profoundly affect the rest of our body in different ways.

(38:36):
You know, in Chinese medicine, it's got a very unique way of looking at food
in that certain foods are associated with certain elements.
There are five tastes in Chinese medicine.
Each taste is correlated with an element. It's correlated with a season.
So there's the idea that, for example, the taste of the water element is salty

(38:59):
and its season is winter.
So we are naturally inclined to eat more salty things in the winter because
of the energetic properties of salty foods and how they go along with the winter.
And if you think about our ancestors, they preserved a lot of things in salt over time.
So we naturally were going to eat a lot more salt in the winter because of the

(39:21):
way our food was preserved.
There's also Lake temperature energetics. And it's kind of wild.
Chinese medicine is really amazing at that.
And the whole point is, again, to balance the qi in your organs, in your system.
And then, you know, in naturopathic medicine, I say kind of jokingly that we
are really all kind of like gastroenterologists because the gut is so core to
health that we work with it all the time.

(39:43):
That's kind of like a naturopathic specialty, I would say.
If you go to see any naturopath, they are going to do some gut stuff.
That's just, that's kind of what we, what we do.
So yeah, you know, and it kind of, the gut can be so core because of something called leaky gut.
I don't know, are you familiar with what leaky gut is? I am,
but I think it would be worth explaining.
Sure. So leaky gut, I think in the simplest way to think about it is that we,

(40:06):
you know, we have our cells in our.
In our gut, and they're all lined up together. And there's a nice barrier between
what's in our gut and then our bloodstream, right?
So what happens in leaky gut over time is that those cells will swell or they'll
pull apart due to irritating foods.
And then those particles that should not leak into the bloodstream that maybe

(40:30):
are partially digested or stuff that like we don't get agree with that should
not come through that barrier do.
And then once they get into the bloodstream, They can go anywhere in the body.
This is why, you know, the gut can impact everywhere where, you know,
eczema and psoriasis, skin issues can be due to issues in the gut.
Hashimoto's thyroiditis often due to leaky gut from the gluten protein because

(40:54):
the gluten protein looks very similar to our thyroid gland.
Some people get joint pain like rheumatoid arthritis.
So that's part of why with naturopathic medicine, the gut is so core and we
do a lot of work to kind of heal that up. And I know functional medicine does
something very similar as well. Yes.
I had literally had no idea about what was going on in my gut or what gut health

(41:15):
even was before I started functional medicine.
And then I took a stool test and I also did a food sensitivity test,
but it also had a gut barrier component to it.
It was very interesting to see, one, what was going on in my gut. It wasn't great.
And then two, just to know that some of the foods I eat every day are the foods
I get the largest reaction from, which I feel like kind of maybe makes sense

(41:38):
why I would feel certain ways throughout the day. Very eye-opening.
For sure. Yeah. Gut health is, it's really, really core. So that's awesome that
you've got that insight.
Yeah. So is there anything that we all should be doing to take care of our gut?
Yeah. You know, I think if we get to the basics, slowing down and taking time
to eat is probably the biggest one.

(42:00):
It's very, very hard. This is is why, you know, I was talking about like the
simplest things, they're the easiest to say and the hardest to execute.
So like really give yourself grace around doing it. Part of it too,
is when we're stressed out, when we're not in our relaxed, also known as the
parasympathetic nervous system,
we are not producing stomach acid and we need stomach acid to digest.
Specifically, mostly protein, but stomach acid also gets the entire digestive

(42:25):
cascade going. It tells your pancreas to release enzymes.
It tells your gallbladder to release lipase, which breaks down fat, like it's a whole thing.
So if we don't have enough stomach acid, we're really kind of compromising the rest of our digestion.
So part of that is slowing down and trying to chew your food,
trying to think about your food, maybe 10 minutes before you eat it,

(42:47):
because digestion doesn't actually start.
It doesn't start in your stomach. It doesn't start in your mouth. It starts in your brain.
Thinking about food gets your stomach acid going and moving,
which is kind of amazing.
So if we're like rushing around and just eating a bar, or we just microwave
something really quick, it kind of subverts that piece and it shortens and it
makes it much harder to digest. And I think...

(43:08):
The tip from Chinese medicine that I always tell people that's in a very similar vein.
So our spleen is our main digestive organ. And digestion is not just about food in Chinese medicine.
The spleen also digests thoughts, emotions, information, and our environment.
So that's a lot of stuff that it's taking in. And if we are working and eating

(43:30):
at the same time, we're literally dividing.
I know, everybody does it, right? but we're dividing our digestive capabilities.
And that spleen is like, I don't have enough to get this done.
And that's where we can feel like heavy and bloated and fatigued and like spacey after a meal.
So even, you know, if you can just give yourself like 20 minutes and you don't
have to just sit there and not doing anything, but try to, if you think about

(43:54):
the content you're taking in, try to make it light,
try to make it like a show you enjoy or a conversation with a friend,
And nothing that's heavy duty, I got to get this done,
or you're trying to like study and absorb too much, that kind of thing to just
actually allow your body the chance to digest what you are giving it.
I think that's a really good tip because I know I laughed because I am like

(44:16):
queen of working and eating.
And just I think in today's society, at least I know like me and my friends,
we are just always on the go. We're so busy trying to do a thousand things at once.
But like you said, if we can just take 20 minutes to enjoy a meal,
which I think a 20 minutes we all deserve, to really just kind of shut our brain
off from all the things we're worried about or stressed about and just enjoy
our food and really treat it as children do.

(44:37):
Like my niece is so funny when she eats, she's just so excited.
She'll be like, this is so, so yummy.
That smells so tasty. And she
just takes it all in and eats so slowly and really just enjoys her food.
And I think if we get back to that, we would all benefit from it. For sure, yes.
Very hard to execute, but worth trying. And even if you get 10 minutes and not 20,

(44:59):
even if you get five minutes like that's still going to
be better and benefit you and you'd be really surprised
with those little pieces that you give your body like how much it will run with
it and be like great i'm gonna work really hard to make this work yes or maybe
even if we just try to start with one meal whether it's like breakfast lunch
or dinner just one meal to give ourselves time just to really like eat and slow
down so i think that's amazing tip so going back to leaky gut.

(45:23):
What naturopathic methods can we use to come to heal our leaky gut if we do have that issue?
So there are a lot of different ways. I'll tell you the way that I like to start.
And, you know, part of it is talking to people about what we just said,
you know, with digestion.
And, you know, because if we're not breaking down the food appropriately,
that's going to be more likely to irritate things, right?

(45:44):
So that's kind of number one is assessing, like, what's going on with your stomach
acid and your digestion? And like, how can we improve that?
Number two is something that I run for almost all my patients.
It's like the one piece of testing that I do really regularly.
And it's called a food intolerance evaluation, which is different than a food
sensitivity, which is confusing, I realize.

(46:06):
I used to run sensitivities. I did that for about seven years.
And I switched over to food intolerance about five years ago.
And it has been like a game changer for people.
I've just found it to be more accurate, focused and effective for people and
they just get better results.
So that's something that I do where at the root of that, what I'm saying is
we have to figure out which foods are irritating your gut.

(46:28):
And that That is the most reliable method that I have personally found to figure
those out or at least get us started because there's a lot of layers to foods
and people have different issues with foods and sometimes you have intolerances and sensitivities,
you know, it just, there's a lot of layers there.
But to help leaky gut, you really have to get to the bottom of the irritating factor.
You can take a lot of soothing herbs like glutamine or cabbage,

(46:52):
old school naturopathic remedies, cabbage juice, which is gross,
but nobody does that anymore, but it's effective. It's high in glutamine,
which is like your gut cell's favorite food. So it helps them to restore.
But if we're not taking away the irritant, that it's just it's still going to be an ongoing issue.
Makes sense. So can you tell us what the difference between the food intolerance
test and the food sensitivity test is?

(47:14):
Sure. Yeah. So the sensitivity test is immune mediated and it comes back with
I'm sure you saw like 96 different foods and it kind of gives you a gradation
of like one through six of like, OK, you know, you're this sensitive to this
food, this sensitive to this one.
The struggle that I had with sensitivities was that because it is based on your
immune system, it matters what you're eating. It matters how much you're eating.

(47:36):
It matters what's going on with your general health. And you need to have it retested every like
six months to a year to be like, I changed my diet. Okay, now what's going on
here? I also found that it didn't really point people to a root cause.
I had people come back with 20 that lit up and like all sixes and it's like,
okay, you're just inflamed, you know?
And then some people come back with 10 things, which is less,

(47:58):
but it's still overwhelming to try to take out 10 things from your diet and
like, and you don't know the root.
So what I would always run into is like, okay, people took it out and then we
didn't know what was causing it.
And then they would add things back in and just start eating it all again and then feel bad.
And they still haven't gotten to like, they didn't do the testing process of
like, okay, let's add one thing back in at a time, which you can do.

(48:19):
So those are kind of some of the issues that I had with sensitivity testing for folks.
And some people like didn't react at all. And they were obviously having gut
stuff and the sensitivity came up with nothing.
And you're like, okay, apparently that part of your immune system is just not reacting.
So the intolerances are interesting.
They are a, at least the intolerance evaluation that I'm talking about is it's

(48:42):
a traditional naturopathic technique.
Only a few of us are trained in it. It's been around for about 100 years,
maybe 120 at this point, and it's not immune mediated.
So it's actually based on how biologically adapted you are to eat certain food
groups, which is where it gets really fascinating and interesting.
If you think back a few hundred years, you know, our ancestors likely ate the

(49:06):
vast majority of their food within like a 25 or 50 mile radius, right?
And now we have access to all the foods from all the places in the world.
And the reality is that our biology hasn't actually caught up to.
That. So my favorite example of that is a potato intolerance,
which you never hear of a potato sensitivity.

(49:26):
But potato intolerance is incredibly common in Northern Europeans,
or people of Northern European descent, and which blows their mind because they're
like, wait a minute, I'm Irish, like everything is potatoes, what's going on.
But the reality is that potatoes are not native to Europe, they're native to South America.
And they came over to Europe in about the 1600s, late 1500s.

(49:47):
So a lot of people who are Northern European still have not biologically adapted
to digest potato appropriately, which is pretty wild.
So anyway, that's kind of how it goes. And it's much more focused.
We only get one food back, maybe two that are like the big ones to remove.
So it tends to be much less overwhelming for people. And they're with you for

(50:08):
life as well, because they're based on inherited patterns.
We often see the intolerances run in families, which is super fascinating,
but they are kind of like a, okay, I can hang my hat on this and really dive
in and work on it rather than like, I don't know, it's kind of shifting sands
and I'm not sure what the root food is, that kind of thing. Oh, okay.
So is that one also done by blood or?
It is. Yeah. It's very similar sample collection. It's just a little tiny finger

(50:31):
prick sample that's collected.
Okay. Now I'm like so much more curious about the test that I took,
because I know it had like, I want to say like 200, it had a lot of different foods.
I went from one to four, but I just know that I was bummed because I think egg
whites were like my more severe one in case in which I think is in like all
dairy, all the things that I eat all the time.
But I would be interested in checking out a food intolerance one.

(50:54):
So I have to look into that.
For sure. Yeah. If you're interested or anybody listening, I do have a link
to it on my website where you can order a kit and I will mail it to you.
So I'm with you. I yeah, I've found it to be really helpful.
And I know me, I went through a whole thing with like, you know,
I was vegan and I was vegetarian.
And then maybe I did a little paleo and then I did some other things and I still couldn't figure it out.

(51:16):
And once I did the intolerances, I was like, oh, okay.
I got it. It's focused. Great. This was mine. And it made a huge difference
in my health as well, personally. So yeah. Yeah. It sounds amazing.
Because as you said, if you find out what's irritating your gut and then you're
able to maybe cut that out and then also do the things to rebuild your gut barrier
back, then that's going to make all the difference.

(51:37):
Because even just what you said, if you keep eating the irritating things and
you try to heal your gut, it's going to kind of just be like you're going around
in a circle, which is not going to be fun. So I definitely think that that is
really crucial. I would definitely be checking that out.
Awesome. Yeah. Well, and one other piece I wanted to say, too,
about food stuff as well is that it is a big conversation in the natural health world for sure.

(51:58):
And I think there's a little bit of blindness sometimes as well to disordered
eating issues, you know, around orthorexia, having to have the healthiest version of the thing.
You know, I'm someone who I would say had mild orthorexia.
I had anorexia, binge eating disorder, body dysmorphia, all the things.
So part of, I guess, how I work with people too, and that hopefully you could

(52:18):
find somebody as well who's sensitive to those things, you know,
is we always have a conversation about, is this the right time to do this for
you? Are you worried about being triggered?
You know, let's talk about that. And I think to me, the point of any food evaluation
or testing is for you to have an informed choice around your food.
So you understand how it's affecting you and then you get to choose.

(52:42):
Do I want to have that slice of cake tonight? Yeah, let's do it.
I'm totally fine. I'm going to have a headache for two hours the next day. Whatever.
Not a big deal. Or you know what? I'm really not up for that.
I'm going to feel bad for three days.
So I'm just not into eating that, especially with intolerances because they are with you for life.
It's really important to be like, you know what? It doesn't have to be 100%
perfection for your life.

(53:02):
You know, it is really understanding how it works in there. And And I have people
who choose different, you know, different amounts that it's in.
Some people, it's totally out. Other people, they have whatever they have once
a week and, you know, they give their self time to recover.
So I think, yeah, that's another really important piece of the food and diet
and gut health healing issue.

(53:22):
Yeah, I really appreciate you mentioning that because I think sometimes it can
feel like, oh, I probably shouldn't eat this or you can just be really hard
on yourself. And like you said, you can develop disorders.
And I think that's a really huge thing to mention. So definitely appreciate you bringing that up.
How does, oh my gosh, so stress, I feel like is something that most of us suffer with.
How do stress reduction techniques such as meditation and Qijong complement

(53:43):
naturopathic and Chinese medicine approaches?
Because I think, again, like a lot of us are very stressed. And sometimes I
think I'm more stressed than I know. though.
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that they are crucial to any, I'd say,
natural health modality.
I think a reactive nervous system is also at the root of so much.
I would say it's probably just as important as gut health, though it is in a

(54:05):
way harder to deal with because we are so chronically overwhelmed and stressed
and just doing all the things all the time.
So yeah, I think those things that you mentioned, they're very commonly things
that I recommend to people or at least ask.
I I think the important piece with relaxation techniques, you know,
is that you just allow yourself to experiment and try out anything that sounds

(54:26):
interesting to you in that realm, because we're all different.
And I think to the idea with any lifestyle change, I will often recommend Dead
Sea Salt Baths to my patients.
They are absolutely wonderful for relaxation, sleep, muscle aches and pains,
mineral repletion, all the things.
The whole point is for you to develop a relationship with that technique and for it to be one.

(54:48):
Tool in a toolbox where you have a variety of things and you're like,
you know what, I'm really stressed and I know that that salt bath always helps
me sleep well. So I'm going to go ahead and do that.
Whereas another thing you're like, you know, I got a lot of aches and pains today.
The salt bath kind of helps, but you know, I'm going to do a castor oil pack,
which is another very old school, very easy naturopathic thing to do.
And that's going to help me more. So yeah, I think it takes time and effort

(55:11):
to develop the relationships with things, But I think to develop a relationship,
you have to self-reflect, you know, on how much did this help me?
What did I like about the experience?
What didn't I like about the experience? And how can I adapt that experience
to meet my needs rather than trying to fit yourself into some sort of predetermined
protocol? Like, that's not how it works, right? We're all...

(55:32):
Individuals and we need to personalize our healthcare and I'd say relaxation
techniques and everything to ourselves.
I like that. And I love the whole having a toolbox so that you really just have
multiple things that you can pull out when you need them.
And I think also a part of having that toolbox is really learning and understanding your body.
And I think the more that we do that and the more that we know what's going
on within, it's going to be a lot easier to kind of decipher what we need in those moments.

(55:57):
So what are some common misconceptions about naturopathic and Chinese medicine?
Yeah, I think the big one we talked about with acupuncture and Chinese medicine
is that it only treats pain.
And it doesn't, right? It's a full system of medicine.
And I think the most common one I come across in the naturopathic world is that
people don't really know what it is. Is it functional medicine?

(56:17):
Is it homeopathy? Like, we don't know, you know? So, and I get it.
It's hard to explain because it does encompass so many things.
But I think we've done a pretty good job of talking about the difference between functional medicine.
And again, I'm not an expert in functional medicine, so I might have missed some things.
And naturopathic medicine, where it really has that core philosophy that we're
working on treating the root, treating the whole person, prevention,

(56:39):
doctor is teacher, and that innate healing power that the body has.
Do you think there's a world and where like you can, for someone who maybe isn't
completely sold on naturopathic medicine, is there a world in which you can
kind of combine that with like your traditional Western medicine doctor that
you're just like really used to seeing?
Do you think there's a world where you can kind of maybe have both?
Like you have a naturopathic doctor and a traditional medicine doctor,

(57:01):
or do you think it just might clash and maybe confuse you more?
Yes, I would say that's such a good question. I would say it's possible.
And I do encourage my patients like it's the best when they have a health care
team, not just one doctor, multiple.
And some of my patients even have multiple naturopaths. And because we all have
different specialties. But having multiple practitioners to go see who you know

(57:23):
help you with certain things in your health is invaluable.
And many of my patients still have PCPs who are in Western medicine,
and that can be great for referrals within that system if they need to go see a specialist.
Basic blood work, even though a lot of naturopaths can run basic blood work,
it does depend on the licensure of the state that you're in,
what the scope of naturopathic medicine is. In Washington, we can do all the

(57:46):
things, prescriptive rights and labs.
But I will say, you know how we talked about like the philosophy of Western
medicine and naturopathic medicine, they are truly diametrically opposed.
One is squashing symptoms, one is trying to go deeper and get to the root cause.
And I think that they are both necessary and needed in the right circumstance.

(58:07):
Circumstance, you know, one of my mentors said, there is no room for dogma in
medicine, because the second you get dogmatic about something,
you are doing a disservice to your patient.
And that's true. You know, if you're closed minded, then you might not see what
they truly need in that instance.
I recently had a patient with kidney stones, who's very, very afraid of going into Western medicine.

(58:28):
She's had some very negative experiences before. And she came to me first and
was like, okay, we're gonna do an acupuncture treatment. But like,
you need to go to the ER after this, you know, like that.
We need to get you some pain meds and some things to help you pass the stone
and, you know, all the things. So I think.
Yes, I think they can coexist, but it is the patient's responsibility.
You are holding that your naturopathic doctor might tell you something completely

(58:52):
different than your Western medicine doctor.
And it just depends on what support you need at that time, how you want to work
with your body, but each has appropriate modalities for sure.
I think that makes sense.
I know for me, I still see my PCP and then also I'm doing functional medicine.
So I love how you said that really having a health team. And I think you're really right.
I think that's a really good approach to have if you are able to really decipher

(59:15):
and make those decisions.
But again, it's kind of like you're getting a well-rounded view and then it's
up to you to decide what you want to do for your health.
So I think that's good. Good. What advice would you give to anyone who is interested
in incorporating naturopathic and Chinese medicine principles into their own
wellness routines for the first time?
Yeah, for the first time, that's such a good question.
I would say this is going to be sound a little bit weird, but I will explain. Expect the unexpected.

(59:40):
Yes, what I see when people first step into natural health, it's a very different
experience in Western medicine in terms of the healing process.
Because again, Western medicine tends to really like shut that Whereas in naturopathic
medicine and Chinese medicine, you are probably going to go through some stuff before you feel better.
That's part of it is when we have these things that have been unprocessed or

(01:00:04):
suppressed and the body is still holding on to.
When we stimulate vitality, the body, once it gets strong enough,
is going to try to get rid of that stuff that's built up.
And in the naturopathic world we call that discharge discharge sucks it's what
everybody hates it's coughing sneezing crying diarrhea like all the uncomfortable things.

(01:00:25):
The beautiful thing about discharge is that once it's out, it's truly out of
your system. It's not rolling around in there anymore.
You don't have to deal with it. And once the discharge is out,
people truly feel better. They feel more like themselves.
They feel lighter, like a weight was lifted.
But it is kind of scary if it's your first time going through a healing process
like that because it's very disorienting. It's like, oh my God,

(01:00:48):
what's happening? I'm feeling worse.
I don't understand. stand. And that can be part of it too. It's after an acupuncture
treatment and somebody's like, I just cried for like three days.
And to me, that's a good thing.
And I try to explain that to them as to why it's good. And you're letting go
of all this stuff and you're going to feel better on the other side,
but it is a lot to hold in the process.
But that's also one of my favorite parts of the medicine is guiding people through

(01:01:10):
that transformation process and really educating them about what that could
look like and reassuring them when these difficult passages come up and it's really,
really beautiful once they've been through that first iteration of maybe not
feeling as good and then making it to the next level because they just have
this skill set that they're going to walk away with for the rest of their life

(01:01:30):
and just be more confident and more self-assured the next time something comes up.
And, you know, the core of that in becoming confident and making it through
that first healing process is learning to trust the body, even though it's making
you really uncomfortable and you're not sure why and what's going on or who you are anymore,
you know, but that's the core.

(01:01:51):
And if you have a practitioner or a group who can ground you.
As you go through that process and explain that this is normal,
or maybe this isn't normal, and we need to go get some other help.
That's really how I see people make it through and develop that confidence in
continuing on that healing journey.
So I just think that it's not talked about enough. And I think that sometimes

(01:02:12):
with those initial reactions, people can really get turned off and think, oh, this isn't for me.
And sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's not the right time. It wasn't the right
practitioner, whatever it is.
But I would just encourage you to continue to try it if you feel like it's something
that you need and that's supportive and helpful or could be.
Yeah. I love that you said that, especially at the end when you said that sometimes

(01:02:34):
it's just maybe not the right time or the right practitioner.
And I think that, because I know for me, I experienced something similar with therapy.
It just wasn't the right therapist. And then I didn't go back and I was just
kind of turned off until I met another therapist who kind of encouraged me.
She's like, it's kind of like, I forgot her analogy, but you kind of have to
shop around and find out the best fit for you because what works for maybe somebody

(01:02:54):
else might not be the best fit for you and that's okay.
But it can be a little bit of a process, but to not be deterred by like that
one experience, like give yourself time to find the right fit because with any
relationship, that's kind of what you have to do anyway. So I think that's huge.
Absolutely. It is a relationship at the end of the day. And I think again,
people are maybe not used to thinking about it being a relationship in terms

(01:03:18):
of medicine, But yes, 100% right.
So can you discuss the importance of ongoing educational research within your
field of naturopathic medicine and Chinese medicine?
Sure. That's a really interesting question. It definitely is happening and occurring.
I would say it's much slower than like Western medicine because there isn't
truly there is not money behind it.
There's not a giant benefit there.

(01:03:40):
To somebody if we study castor oil packs and be like, this is the exact molecule
that makes it happen and work.
You know, the fact is that clinically, we know for over 100 years that it works.
It helps with aches and pains and scar tissue and all the things.
And honestly, sometimes, you know, Chinese medicine and naturopathic medicine,
it is a little bit hard to fit into a traditional study paradigm,

(01:04:01):
again, because of that reductionistic view where it's like, we're looking at
this one tiny little thing.
So, herbally, they'll look at like one constituent. but
the issue we have with that is usually like how is that relevant for
our clinical practice when we're using the whole herb which has
other pieces to it that might modulate that constituent
and might work differently within other people so there is a form of research

(01:04:23):
called black box research so the idea is that like we have this input that's
general like this is a treatment i do all the things i do in a treatment and
what's the outcome is somebody better is somebody worse so i hope there's more
and more of that because i think that's great but it gets very hard to
me, to study accurately medicine that is inherently personalized to the person.

(01:04:45):
Like with acupuncture, you see like, oh, we did the same acupuncture point protocol
on everyone in this study for neck pain.
And for me, I'm like, okay, but was that along the gallbladder channel?
Was the neck pain along small intestine?
You know, were they a fire constitution? Are they wood? Do they have an imbalance in their kidneys?
There's all these other variables that, to me, make the research a little bit

(01:05:05):
less accurate when it is that personalized medicine.
To me, it's harder to study. I think it's really important to do so to continue
to make progress and learn these amazing things, but it can be challenging for
sure. Yeah, I think that makes sense.
And also, this is kind of a question that I've been thinking about today.
So like in your practice, have you, because I feel like just what I've seen

(01:05:25):
in society and just kind of even with people that I know, it seems like people
are getting cancer and things younger.
And from my understanding, I think diet, environment, all of these things play
a role. But like, are you seeing a lot of of those things in your practice as well.
Yeah. You know, I would say I do think younger people are struggling more than I have seen before.

(01:05:47):
You know, like it's gotten kind of worse over my 13 years.
I'm sure it would be different if I had been practicing 40 years,
but for sure, I think, yes, what you said, diet, environment,
and I think just the crazy stress of the world right now is really,
really affecting people for sure. I agree.
I feel like even in the last couple of years, it just seems like people have,

(01:06:08):
they are really struggling.
And I think we're seeing that a lot when we see all the things that we see on
social media and on the news, which honestly, I try to avoid a little bit.
But yeah, I just feel like, I don't know, because I was,
thinking, I was like, well, I'm also getting older. So maybe that's a part of
it too. Because I think sometimes when you're so young, you just don't think of these things.
And then as you get older, you notice like, oh, your friends start to get sick
or like your family members. And then it can be kind of jarring.

(01:06:30):
But are there any like key health tips that you like to give to all of your
clients that you can give us today just so that we can just maybe incorporate
one healthier habit? Yeah.
So this is not a habit. Well, it could be mentally, but I think too,
because it's really unique in that we have access to so much information all the time.
And I think part of that with health information and being able to Google it

(01:06:53):
and all that stuff, it can be good.
But I think it can also make us very fearful and feel like we're more fragile than we are.
Oh my God, all these things go wrong and my life's falling apart and I have
cancer and I'm going to die.
You know, that kind of like doom spiral that we can go on.
A couple of things mentally that I think really help people is realizing just
how resilient you and your body are in terms of how adaptable and fluid and dynamic you are.

(01:07:18):
And if you are not in a good environment or you can't eat healthy,
that is not going to ruin your health for the rest of your life.
If you are in an extreme circumstance, that's okay.
Whenever you can pick that up and start a good habit, again,
your body's really going to run with that. It will take a lot.
It'll surprise you how quickly things will improve.

(01:07:39):
And that, again, that speaks to vitality. The quicker you can make that shift,
you know, if you're like, OK, I'm just going to start going to bed like two hour or an hour earlier.
And then you notice this profound shift. It's like, wow, my body really took
that and ran with it. The same thing is when you get
sick, people feel awful, you know, when they get a fever. I'm super happy when
people get a fever because it means you are strong enough to get a fever and

(01:08:01):
to respond to that illness.
I'm much more worried when people do not get fevers because their system can't process it.
That's actually one of the issues with folks who are older, maybe in a retirement
home or a nursing home, in that it's very common to die of pneumonia because
they don't have a fever until their lungs are filled with fluid and it's almost too late.

(01:08:22):
So having some of this, the discomfort that your body creates means that you
are vital and that you are strong.
And it's just a really, really nice reframe mentally.
And again, knowing how resilient and adaptable you are and trusting that your
body is always there for you and it's always working for you, I think can really help.

(01:08:42):
So what do you envision for the future of naturopathic and Chinese medicine
in terms of healthcare integration and accessibility.
I know you said that it's harder to do that right now, but just if the world
was your oyster and you can make things happen, what do you envision?
Yeah. I mean, to me, and I take this with a grain of salt because it's just
my opinion, you know, to me, naturopathic medicine and Chinese medicine,

(01:09:03):
the natural health modalities,
they are kind of, they're like first line of defense medicine in terms of,
I have this little ache, I have this little pain.
They really address this like gray zone, you know, of like, Like,
I don't have the three of the five symptoms that I need, you know,
to check this box to tell me that I have this condition.

(01:09:23):
They address what happens before you get to the point.
Of having that condition. So that's what I would love to see is way more practitioners
that way, and way more people using naturopathic and Chinese medicine in that way.
And then using Western medicine, you know, more sparingly in terms of,
you know what, I really need to get this lab done, or I really need to get imaging

(01:09:44):
done and this checked out, you know, to understand what's going on.
And then, of course, Western medicine, excellent in trauma and emergency.
Emergency fabulous right so really really important
but to me if we could move that pyramid down
where where we're kind of the base layer and we help everybody in that those
first stages that would be amazing and ideal and then be able to refer back

(01:10:06):
and forth like hey can you help me out here we need to do this you guys are
really good at western medicine is excellent at diagnosing things and getting
very very specific and that can be very valuable sometimes so i think having
all of that available to more people so people have more of a choice would be fabulous.
I agree. I really like that. Yeah, I think that's great. Well,
thank you so much for coming on, Dr. Liz. I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.

(01:10:29):
I feel like I've learned a lot. So where can we find you to follow you online
and how can we work with you? Yeah.
Yeah. I have a website. It's drlizcarter.com with a lot of resources,
kind of free downloads for things we talked about, like the salt bath and the
castor oil pack. If you're interested in that and the food intolerance evaluation.
And then I'm very active on Instagram. So that's just Dr.

(01:10:51):
Liz Carter on Instagram. So yeah, those are great places to come find me.
And then I'm always coming up with kind of like new courses and offers.
And so if you're on social media, you might see that or you're welcome to sign
up for my newsletter on my website to make sure you're kind of in the know.
I send out a weekly newsletter just with little kind of health snippets and

(01:11:11):
things from naturopathic medicine and in Chinese medicine perspective.
Beautiful. Again, thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah,
thank you so much for having me.
Thank you all for tuning into this week's episode. If you really loved the episode
and you felt like it resonated with you, be sure to share the love and share
the episode with a friend.
Also, if you could take a minute and head to the review section wherever you

(01:11:33):
listen to your podcast and leave me a review, letting me know what you're loving
about these episodes and which topics you want to hear next.
That way I can make sure that i continue creating episodes that you love also
make sure you hit the subscribe button so that you don't miss an episode until next.
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