February 5, 2025 • 46 mins
Zach Torpie and Katie Zakrzewski tackle the escalating crisis of wildfires in California, shedding light on the complex interplay of climate change, politics, and community resilience.
"These are not the end times, but damn if we ain't getting close." -Zach
With humor and insight, they discuss Zach's recent basketball injury, the whirlwind of news under the Trump presidency, and the dire state of environmental conditions in California.
As wildfires rage and devastate communities, the hosts explore the systemic failures in water management and firefighting resources, revealing the challenges of battling fires in a desert landscape. They delve into the rising frequency and intensity of wildfires, backed by alarming statistics that show California's increasing vulnerability to these disasters.
Through candid conversation, Zach and Katie dissect the political narratives surrounding the wildfires, including the controversial claims regarding DEI hires and the implications of federal aid. They emphasize the need for better infrastructure, forest management, and community preparedness in the face of climate change.
Join them as they brainstorm actionable steps listeners can take to support wildfire victims and advocate for sustainable solutions. This episode is a call to action for young conservatives to engage in the climate conversation and contribute to a movement that prioritizes environmental stewardship.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Zach (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to the Green Tea Party, where we discuss
conservative solutions to environmental problems. My name is Zach
Torpy.
>> Katie (00:09):
And I'm Katie Zachreski. Together, we'll guide you through
complex issues and provide strategies to address them, um,
all while remaining faithful to our conservative
values.
>> Zach (00:18):
Trust me, it'll be a good time.
>> Katie (00:20):
Yeah, it's a party, so grab your mugs
and we'll pour the tea.
Zach, it's been a minute. How are you?
>> Zach (00:29):
I'm good. Got a broken leg, but.
>> Katie (00:32):
Oh, my God. Zach. What?
Were you fighting Nazis again?
>> Zach (00:37):
Oh, I wish.
>> Katie (00:41):
Oh, Lord. Oh, gosh. How'd you do that?
What'd you do?
>> Zach (00:45):
I was just playing basketball.
>> Katie (00:46):
Okay, well, first of all, primarily, most importantly, are
you. Are you okay?
>> Zach (00:51):
Yeah, just turned 30, and now I'm getting
injured every time I play a sport.
>> Katie (00:55):
Uh. Oh, man. Yep. No, gotta hang it up. Sorry,
bud. Oh, my gosh. And you said
you. It was basketball, you said.
>> Zach (01:03):
Yeah, it slipped and, uh, landed
hard on my right knee. Just.
>> Katie (01:09):
Oh, my God.
>> Zach (01:10):
Fractured. Fractured my kneecap. Patella.
>> Katie (01:14):
Gosh. Well, did you win?
>> Zach (01:17):
I did win. That. I did win that game, but I lost.
>> Katie (01:19):
There you go.
You kept playing, and, Zach, I. I think.
I think it's all right that you lost because you had a broken
kneecap. Oh, my word.
Yeah, well, that makes. Ah, well, all right,
well, I think I had. Look, you know
what? We're moving on. Um,
(01:39):
there's no good that will come from this. I was just gonna
say, um, I am also in physical
rehabilitation because several, uh, of my lower vertebrae are
all sorts of goofed right now. Um, so we might be
crippled, but we care enough about the environment to come
here and sit in front of our microphones and tell you more about it. It's.
>> Zach (01:56):
We are small but mighty
banged up podcasters.
>> Katie (02:01):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Actually. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. If anybody's got, um,
rest, ice, compression, elevation tips, um,
feel free to leave them on our Twitter.
Oh, my Lord. Okay, so let's. Let's
banter a little bit, Zach.
>> Zach (02:18):
Um, we're one week into Trump's
presidency, as of this recording.
>> Katie (02:23):
Wow. It already feels like it's been a decade.
>> Zach (02:25):
He has been very. A very busy man.
>> Katie (02:28):
Very busy man. I don't know when he sleeps. To be honest.
>> Zach (02:31):
I feel he started arguing with, like, so
many presidents and prime
ministers. Mexico.
>> Katie (02:39):
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's the Danes.
Yeah. No, nobody is. Nobody is left untouched.
Yeah, he's. He's taking Greenland. It's the Gulf of
America. Um, and Colombia. Enjoy your
Tariffs. Yeah, no, if I feel like it changes like
every five minutes, so there's no telling what is even going to still
be relevant by the time that this episode comes out. It has been so
(02:59):
hard to plan episodes
this month because I swear every time we get a script
together or hammer out what we're going to talk about, it's almost
irrelevant or half of it's changed or
new, uh, executive orders have been signed. So
yeah, we're just kind of flying by our, by the seat of our
pants right now, I think.
>> Zach (03:18):
Yeah. The fast paced life of
the president. Fast paced life under President
Trump.
>> Katie (03:25):
Yeah. And for anybody who might not be keeping up with it,
um, let me cure your FOMO for you. Um, if you're an
environmentalist, shit's bad. Um, but it's
okay because we're going to keep working towards it because I can
be alive for up to 70 something years. Maybe he
can only be president for four. Uh, if we remain a democracy
that.
>> Zach (03:43):
Is amended to
change a thing, to change the constitution to allow third
term.
>> Katie (03:49):
Yeah.
>> Zach (03:49):
It turns out excluded Obama, which I found kind of funny.
>> Katie (03:52):
Yeah, I know, I love that. They were like, okay, we see your memes
chat. Um, and we've decided. Okay, so
good, uh, luck, uh, George W. Bush
or whoever's running next, um, maybe
Michelle Obama, who knows, maybe I, I
couldn't even begin to guess. I like jokingly said that the other day. I said,
yeah, so in 2028 when Michelle Obama runs for
president. And you know what, bookmark that clip that
(04:15):
chat. Um, I, I want to see some Nostradamus
level memeing as soon as that becomes a reality here
in three, four years.
Um, but yeah, no, I couldn't even begin to
predict how things are going to go. Um,
yeah, so that's where we're at. Um, I don't
even know where to start. These
(04:35):
are, these are not the end times, but damn if we ain't getting
close.
>> Zach (04:40):
Well, people in California would believe it is the end times.
>> Katie (04:43):
Yeah.
>> Zach (04:43):
You know how they're. The start of their year is going.
>> Katie (04:46):
Great segue, Zach.
Let's unfortunately talk about all of the
horrible things going on in California right now.
>> Zach (04:54):
Yeah. Imagine, I mean, literally
felt like hell for a couple, for two weeks
there, there. All of LA was on
fire. They were. So it started
off with three fire, separate fires.
>> Katie (05:08):
Mhm.
>> Zach (05:08):
Fires in Eaton, Palisades and
Hearst. And then over the next couple days,
three more fires started. The uh, fire,
Lydia Wildfire, Kenneth Wildfire.
And was it Sunset
Wildfire not to.
>> Katie (05:23):
Be m this person.
But what is the obsession with naming random weather and climate
change phenomenons now? I feel like
it only used to be hurricanes, now it's winter storms,
now it's fires.
>> Zach (05:34):
I think these are just names of the places that are on fire. Uh, oh, all
right, a little, little more.
>> Katie (05:38):
Can you tell I've had a 13 hour day? Can you, can
you tell that I don't know geography
after working for 12 or 13 hours. Anywho,
I'll, I'll shut up now. Go ahead, Zach.
>> Zach (05:50):
And now that the wildfires
seem to have been abated for the most part because there's always the threat
in California, it seems it's a year round problem.
>> Katie (05:59):
Yeah, like constantly.
>> Zach (06:00):
They now have threats of mudslides
due to all the burned debris
being taken off the mountains by
rain.
>> Katie (06:10):
God said so. I heard Joel's prayers, um,
went a little hard though.
>> Zach (06:16):
Yeah. This is the, uh, m. The God with a monkey
paw.
>> Katie (06:19):
Yeah. Actually though, this is like every biblical.
I think plague is, uh, hitting California as
we speak.
>> Zach (06:25):
You're just sitting up there like, whoops, I, I didn't mean to do
that, but I tried to help.
>> Katie (06:30):
Yeah. Get ready for the Locust Gang.
>> Zach (06:33):
Um, so
the flames were fanned by 100 mile per
hour winds, which led to mass destruction in
the surrounding LA area. It grounded the
air fleet, which made it particularly difficult in the, um, to
fight the fires. It's a major asset in this area because of
how mountainous and how many ridges they have
(06:53):
to deal with. And
so the no air fleet. The areas
are hard to reach with vehicles and ground teams, so people are going on
foot through like canyons, cliffs,
and it was incredibly difficult to fight and
contain. And after two
weeks, only 63
(07:14):
of the Palisades wildfire was contained and
89 of the eat wildfire.
>> Katie (07:19):
I know that they are not paying those folks enough.
>> Zach (07:22):
Oh yeah, I mean, I mean, we're not even gonna
have time to go into the story about, um, Was it
people coming from jails to fight the fires?
>> Katie (07:31):
Oh, yeah, I remember reading about that. I was like, this
is actually apocalyptic stuff right here.
>> Zach (07:36):
Yeah. Like you're
getting a couple hours off your sentence to come fight.
To risk your life to fight a wildfire.
>> Katie (07:45):
Yeah, I'd be like, it's gonna, I'm gonna need more than that, buddy. Get my lawyer
in the room. We're gonna make a deal. I'll put out this whole fire
if y'all let me go.
>> Zach (07:52):
So as of now, as of
this recording, there have been 28 confirmed
deaths. 18, 000
structures have been destroyed. Uh,
over 40,000 acres have been burned.
Tens of thousands people have been forced out of their homes
and a quarter trillion with a T
(08:13):
in damages is estimated.
>> Katie (08:15):
That is insane.
>> Zach (08:17):
Yeah, that's what happened when the property value is really high and
wildfire comes through and burns all the mansions.
>> Katie (08:23):
You know, that's what's kind of crazy about like trying to write a press
release or like a statement about it, like as it was happening
because, like, I would write it one day
and then work on it the next day and then update the stats
and then work on it the next day and update the stats and like every single day
it had like doubled from whatever it was before. It was crazy
to watch.
>> Zach (08:43):
Yeah. So just absolutely
devastating climate
experience. Wildfire. I, uh,
like, and this is with
the increased temperature we are expecting and the
higher estimates they are projecting going forward
with the lack of abatement for
climate change here, we are expecting this to
(09:06):
become more common and more crazy swings
in wildfire.
>> Katie (09:11):
Yikes.
>> Zach (09:12):
I was actually reading an interesting article today that talked
about how the massive amounts of rain
they got, uh, earlier this.
Earlier, I guess earlier last year
led to massive growth in the
mountains and then they had drought. So all
the growth from all that massive rain. I think California got
(09:32):
like half a year's worth of rain in.
>> Katie (09:35):
Oh, I remember seeing that day or.
>> Zach (09:37):
Two atmospheric river
and. Yeah, so massive flooding,
massive rain made all the
foliage in the mountains and the
ridges just explode. And then they experienced drought.
So all that stuff grew and then dried up and
made basically perfect kindling for fire.
>> Katie (09:57):
That's, uh, horrible.
>> Zach (10:00):
So I guess that's an aspect of climate change is
the unpredictability, um, of weather and the it
fluctuating from extreme ends instead of
being more consistent.
M. Nightmare. Yeah.
>> Katie (10:17):
You know, and then people make fun of me for living in Arkansas where everything
gets wiped off the map by a tornado. And then I'm like, huh, huh.
Wait, our, our place doesn't look like hell once a
year? Are you kidding?
>> Zach (10:30):
Yeah. I'm getting more afraid of, uh, living in certain
places. California is out. Uh,
Florida is out.
>> Katie (10:37):
Yeah, good call. Honestly, anywhere east and west coast,
you're either getting like crazy biblical
level fires or it's going to be underwater in
like five years. So, um, everybody,
we're on our way to Ohio.
>> Zach (10:52):
Hey, if you listen to the, to climate scientists, that's where they say the
best place will be to live is the, uh, around the Great Lakes.
>> Katie (11:01):
You heard it here first. Oh
my word.
>> Zach (11:04):
Okay, well, this is those nerds
yeah.
>> Katie (11:07):
Opening up my Zillow and looking around Cleveland. I'll
be back.
>> Zach (11:12):
Cleveland.
>> Katie (11:14):
Yeah, I know that look. No offense to our
Cleveland fans. You know, you got to be pretty bad when
you're looking at moving to
Ohio. I'm allowed to say that because I'm from
Arkansas. So don't, don't come for me.
>> Zach (11:28):
Um, yeah.
So first question we've got, is
our California wildfires becoming more common?
>> Katie (11:36):
Feels like.
>> Zach (11:37):
Yeah. The answer is yes.
>> Katie (11:39):
No. Well there you go.
>> Zach (11:40):
Not that hard.
>> Katie (11:41):
Um, put the points on the board.
>> Zach (11:43):
So they're becoming bigger, they're
occurring more frequently and
California has gone from having
78 annual fire days when
uh, conditions are ripe for like fires to spark
very easily from like lightning
dry, dry conditions.
All the electric wires that always seem to bark
(12:05):
fires.
>> Katie (12:06):
Mhm.
>> Zach (12:06):
Hippies and hippies camping and dropping their lighters.
>> Katie (12:08):
Um, burning man cigarette
dropping.
>> Zach (12:13):
So 78 more annual fire days than
50 years ago.
>> Katie (12:17):
Oh my God.
>> Zach (12:19):
Yeah. So it's becoming basically a year round
condition of you're just, it's in
constant threat of fire days. Um,
California's so called asbestos
forest have lost their immunity. These
were, uh, forests that were, they're like mini
rainforests that were very damp, moist, had lots of
(12:41):
fog. Um, and they have
dried out and now become, now burned.
>> Katie (12:47):
Yeah, ah, tender more or less.
>> Zach (12:48):
And they're not going to protect the California
anymore.
Um, California's become warmer and
drier and the severity of the average
wildfires has increased by 30% from
1980 to 2010.
Um, tree, tree cover in California has decreased
by 7% since 1985.
(13:12):
Um, from combined effects of wildfire
and droughts and bug
infestations. I think there's a certain type of beetle that came over
from Japan or China that's very bad
for um, North American
foliage. Um,
more homes are being built in fire zones with one in
(13:32):
three homes now in fire risk zones.
And you know what's also terrible? Because they're built
in fire zones, those homes are probably either have very
expensive insurance coverage or are now experiencing
the pull out of those insurance coverages.
>> Katie (13:47):
That is horrible.
>> Zach (13:49):
Leaving them at risk financially,
home wise. Everything.
>> Katie (13:54):
See that's one of the costs of climate change that people don't
often account for the insurance
factor that either you can't get insurance in a lot
of these places either because of um, fires or
flooding, or the insurance is so
expensive that you'll go broke just trying to pay it.
>> Zach (14:12):
Yeah. And everyone
feels those effects because higher insurance risks in other
areas get built into policies to cover Those areas
in lower risk areas, like my insurance has gone
up. My HOA has gone up $50
each year for the past two years to cover increases
in insurance and nothing else.
>> Katie (14:31):
HOA, uh. Oh my God. I'd rather be dead.
>> Zach (14:34):
Oh God, I hate it. Never, never
get, never go anywhere with.
>> Katie (14:38):
An HOA Secret final layer of hell.
HOA presidents.
>> Zach (14:42):
You, you want, you want to find government
bureaucracy? Find an hoa.
>> Katie (14:47):
Ab. Absolutely. Oh my God. I cannot think of a
better, a better program for getting
people to condemn bureaucracy. Just, just join the
hoa.
>> Zach (14:56):
And the worst part about HOA is you go to the
meetings and it is the stupidest people you could ever
imagine. Just sitting there yelling at the board. You're like, can
we ask, can we do solve real problems? Can you idiots just
show up for like five seconds?
>> Katie (15:08):
Yeah. All, all the world's hall monitors,
um, compete for HOA president.
>> Zach (15:17):
So in between
1990 and 2010, an estimated
45 of new housing units were constructed in
wildland urban interfaces where uh,
suburbia and rural towns back up to like wild and
combustible landscapes. And where these fire risk
zones are, um,
(15:38):
and more, more trees are dying due to fluctuation,
fluctuating conditions from the
drought and inconsistent weather conditions.
Um, one in ten California
wildfires is related to the energy equipment.
Gotta love those PG E wires coming down and sparking
wildfires and burning everyone's house down.
>> Katie (15:57):
Yeah. Aren't they still like investigating whether or not that was
the cause of this incident? I think that they're like trying to figure
out if it was like a cigarette or like downed power lines or something like
that. If they figured that out yet, I might be getting ahead of myself.
>> Zach (16:09):
Uh, the reports aren't out yet, but I was reading something
of like preliminary reports are one of
the fires may have been human caused. One of the fires may
have been, uh, electrical wire.
There's so many fires that, yeah, it's.
>> Katie (16:23):
Hard to pinpoint what's responsible.
>> Zach (16:26):
Many different culprits, probably.
>> Katie (16:27):
Yeah, actually probably more than one.
>> Zach (16:31):
Um,
so warming climate has altered the background conditions for these
wildfires. Uh, researchers out
of UCLA say that with every degree of
warming, the atmosphere is able to evaporate and
absorb and release 7% more
water. So the expanded,
the expanding atmospheric sponge as
(16:54):
the science sciences term it, not only leads to flood
flooding when things are wetter, but it pulls extra moisture out of
the plants and soils when the drier conditions set in.
So atmosphere gets hotter, it's able to absorb more
water, which is
bad for dry areas.
>> Katie (17:12):
Yeah, that Makes sense.
>> Zach (17:15):
Um, the climate change also boosted what they
call whiplash conditions globally by 31 to
60, 66%. Um,
which is going from the extreme rainfalls to the extreme
drought, which is exactly what California experienced this
past year and a half.
>> Katie (17:31):
Mhm.
>> Zach (17:32):
And models are suggesting
a doubling of the volatility for a global temperature
warming. If we reach 3 degrees Celsius,
which is looking increasingly likely
that we will go beyond that.
California, prepare for this to be
your low end.
>> Katie (17:50):
More. More of the same. Yeah. So.
And you might be getting ready to get into this, Zach, but I want to address
the elephant in the room. Um,
a lot of Republicans
have accused DEI
for the wildfires.
And their argument, from what I surmise by
(18:12):
scanning through some of the
most brilliant arguments you've ever read in your life,
um, is that
because unqualified people were put in
leadership positions to check a box,
this happened.
But from what you've said, this has
(18:32):
clearly been going on for
decades. What are
your thoughts on that theory or
accusation? And I. That probably sounds
like a leading question. Um, but
you know what, let's just get into that real quick, if you don't mind. What are
your thoughts on that? And obviously, you know, you did a lot of the research
for this episode. What. What stands out to you?
(18:55):
What are your thoughts on that? I'll just, I'll just shut up. Go on.
>> Zach (18:58):
I, uh, find when people are arguing,
when someone throws out that someone was a DEI
hire, it just seems like a very
unqualified and unresearched statement. Because
you have to explain why you believe they were DEI
hire. Just because they were a woman or person of color
doesn't make them DEI m. Like they could be
(19:21):
highly qualified, served two
decades in their service and earn their way
up.
>> Katie (19:27):
Mhm.
>> Zach (19:27):
If you're going to accuse someone of being dei you need
to come with facts, figures. Be like, this person was
unqualified. This person didn't deserve this job. You can't
just say it. And I feel like I've never, I
haven't seen any backing up of those
accusations.
>> Katie (19:43):
Now, yeah, now I will say what I've
seen and God only knows, this could have been
taken out of context. Um,
I think I saw a couple things that were kind of like they
make you scratch your head, if that makes sense. Like one of them
was like an interview with like, I don't know, I think she was
like the LA fire chief. I have no
(20:03):
idea. But she was talking about
how people often say that
they wouldn't want a woman firefighter,
like dragging them down three flights of
stairs or carrying them off scene of
a fire. And she was like, well, my response to that is, you know,
if you have to say that, you shouldn't have gotten yourself in that situation in the
(20:23):
first place, like, trying to be, like, really cool, but at the same
time, like, buddy, you're a fire chief.
Like, if people could prevent
their accidents, you'd be out of a job. So,
like, like, so there was that and there was like, a couple
things where, like, people were bragging about
not having an adequate budget to fight
(20:43):
fires and saying that they haven't had the budget to
sufficiently, you know, like, forest management and things like
that for years. Um, which, based
on this script here, you're, you're going to get into the water system,
um, here in a minute. But I mean, like,
he. Okay, my take is, for
whatever it's worth, which is really zilch at the end
(21:05):
of the deck. I don't know that the right
people were in place for these jobs,
but I don't know that we can blame people who have been in
these positions, like several people who have been
in all of these positions for,
I don't know, everybody I saw was in their 30s or
40s, so probably no more than 20
years for issues that have been going on
(21:27):
for 30 to 40 to 50.
So, like, while I don't think that the most qualified
people held these positions, clearly, uh, because this has
been an ongoing problem for decades
and nobody's offered to do anything about it or managed to do anything
about it, people have also not managed to do
anything about it for decades. Therefore, I don't think it was
(21:48):
because they were checking a box that this went south. I just think
that, like, the state of
California's way as a whole of managing wildfires
is clearly lacking.
So. So, I mean, I think that for me,
that's the angle, that's the comfortable middle. They, um,
always say, if you want to figure out what the truth is, look at both
extremes and meet somewhere in the middle.
(22:10):
Um, another thing that I don't know if you're going to touch
on or not, but this might just be like the political
application of Republicans wanting to
withhold wildfire
aid to California. First of all, that
is absolutely insane to me, especially
for the political party who claims to be pro life
to say that we don't care about literally
(22:31):
lives, uh, because the state is blue, they
don't have the same letter behind their name that we do.
>> Zach (22:36):
That. That's just weaponization of having
federal office. And I think it is
Entirely unprofessional. I, I
also question when these people are
saying these are DEI hires and
California doesn't deserve federal aid. What did,
what was done when North Carolina and
(22:56):
yeah.
>> Katie (23:00):
Not to be that.
>> Zach (23:01):
Person, but those were experiences
of failures of those were damn failures
that should have been known about
and been. They were predictable based
on models that they could, that you can run.
>> Katie (23:15):
Yeah, nobody was talking about DEI hires, them.
>> Zach (23:18):
I've, I've been in damn meetings where we discussed
how, discussion reaction for dam,
how to model if a DAM is going to fail, how it's going to react
to a 500 year storm, which is what they experienced.
So I think in both scenarios
it's a lack of investing in the
infrastructure, but it's also the amount of investment
(23:39):
in this infrastructure you would need to meet
these very,
what is considered rare conditions and very
dangerous conditions is very difficult. You need to invest
hundreds of millions of dollars to be able
to design for a 500 year storm
event, which is, you know, crazy.
>> Katie (23:58):
And I think that what makes me mad is it like, yeah, I get
it. Here's how politics works. You pick on the thing
that's trending in the media to get as much
traction as you can out of it. I'm not an idiot and I
get DEI is the big thing in the media right now
because Trump is shutting all down all the DEI stuff.
But would this not have been the easiest
layup in favor of the Department of
(24:20):
Government Efficiency to be
like, why do these things keep happening
if we've got presumably
well paid people who are
bureaucratically in charge of all of these
disaster management responses and they keep fumbling the
ball like I, I personally. And granted
they'll never elect me because I have common sense. You can put that on the
(24:42):
record. Um, that is the angle
that I would have gone for other than you see, the wildfires
are racist. Like I don't think, I don't think. No, that wasn't the
angle. Like, I'd have been like, I can't think of a better
argument for streamlining and taking
better inventory of our federal
programs and our government
programs. We're going to help California, but how do
(25:05):
we prevent this? Like, like that for me would have been the easiest
layup and we went with the most brain rot
argument imaginable for this one.
>> Zach (25:13):
Yeah, there are much better arguments to be had and much better.
Like if you're making these arguments come with solutions,
come with ideas.
>> Katie (25:19):
Yeah, absolutely. Like give me, give
me a solution. What is your big idea then? Which you
don't like it. What's your proposal for fixing it?
>> Zach (25:28):
Republicans now control all three
branches of the government, the federal government. And
if you're, you can't, you can no longer complain
about what's going on.
>> Katie (25:39):
Yeah, y'all are in charge.
>> Zach (25:40):
You now have, you are in charge. You have to be the solutions oriented party.
>> Katie (25:42):
They're like, man, who, who's responsible for this mess? I want to talk to the guy
in charge. Well, that would be you.
>> Zach (25:46):
The buck stops here.
>> Katie (25:48):
Yeah, that, that would be you. What are you gonna do about
it? So, yeah, let's talk about now.
Now that I've gone on this tangent and we've talked a little bit
about politics, um, and
how to twist them. Um, one of the big things that
I've been hearing about is the water system not being
adequate, not having enough funding, not having enough access
to water. They literally ran out of water, which, which is an
(26:10):
idea that's absolutely unfathomable to me here in
Arkansas. Like, it's just, I can't,
I still can't wrap my brain around that one. I've never been able to wrap my brain around
that one. Zach, you, you, you are, you're a
research wizard here. You break out the Zach's facts.
Was the water system adequate, would you say?
>> Zach (26:27):
All right, so let's start this with. When you think of la,
you think of palm trees, you think of
green grass, lawns.
>> Katie (26:34):
Mhm.
>> Zach (26:35):
Think of very ornamental lawns. That
is a lie. LA is a
desert.
>> Katie (26:41):
There shouldn't be.
>> Zach (26:42):
No, there shouldn't be this type of
grass. There shouldn't be palm trees. It is a desert.
Should be very sparse
foliage. And they
import their water from Northern California. They take
it from the Colorado river also. They take it from all
over, which is. As a Coloradoan,
(27:03):
we, uh,
very much do not like California taking more than their
fair share of water.
>> Katie (27:09):
Makes sense.
>> Zach (27:10):
Which we can go into another podcast about.
Um, so this is a desert,
so you get very dry conditions. So all their water
has to be brought in from other areas and
stored in
reservoirs and storage
tanks. And the areas
that caught fire where these wildfires were
(27:31):
occurring were in
the eastern part of la
towards like, ridges and mountains. So they're up, uh,
they're up, uh,
they're, they're at a increase
in height. So you have to pump that water.
>> Katie (27:48):
Yeah, I'm pulling up a map right now.
>> Zach (27:50):
Yeah, you have to pump water uphill to these
areas to fight fires. So it's a very difficult
situation to design for and very
expensive. As someone I work in water
engineering. So this. It's in my ballpark. M.
So yeah.
>> Katie (28:06):
Um, and I guess that's where I'm kind of confused being in a
landlocked state because they're next to the
ocean, but they're next to. They're next to the ocean. So I guess
that that's what's been like confusing me this whole
time because they're like we're out of water. And then I'm like
pans to look at all of
the water. So. But. But
(28:27):
yeah, you're. You're the engineer. Make it make sense. Zach.
Yeah.
>> Zach (28:32):
Do you remember that those 100 mile per hour winds I was talking
about.
>> Katie (28:36):
So that's a
problem.
>> Zach (28:40):
So they. They couldn't find those giant. I
uh, forgot. I forgot what they were called C.
Something. Those giant airplanes that go down, scoop water and then
deliver it to the mountains. They couldn't fly
those. They couldn't fly their helicopters that are also do that. They
couldn't fly. Also one of
those. One. One of the aircraft got hit by a
drone of someone trying to film them do this.
(29:02):
It was like. It.
>> Katie (29:04):
It might.
>> Zach (29:05):
It might terrible people. People who
interfere with drones. Oh my God. That.
>> Katie (29:11):
Whatever it is control delete. Um,
we've gone too far as.
>> Zach (29:20):
Um. Yeah. So fire hydrants in both the
Palisades eating fires did stop working.
>> Katie (29:26):
That is insane. I would
get it if it was like after day 10 or something.
>> Zach (29:31):
Yeah.
>> Katie (29:32):
The first 24 hours.
Oh yeah. Someone needs to be fired.
>> Zach (29:38):
So.
So. But
um, the um,
Metropolitan Water District of Southern California said that there
was way more water in local storage than you could ever fight a fire
with. So they're saying that they had plenty of water. They had
enough water. Roughly three years water
(30:01):
demand for LA.
And the
systems got. Were operating for
15 hours straight at four
times normal demand, which lowered the water pressure, which meant
they can't pump the water up the hill
to the station.
>> Katie (30:20):
This is going to be somebody's village origin story. I'm not even kidding with you
right now.
>> Zach (30:26):
So an 8 inch PVC pipe can pump around
2800 gallons per minute.
Um, and which is a
lot of water. But you also need. You need those pipes
to be filled with water because if you're. If
those pipes empty out, they could also, um. You could also
collapse those pipes, which is a major design
(30:46):
concern.
>> Katie (30:47):
Yeah. Be even worse. Yeah, yeah.
>> Zach (30:49):
If that happened during the fires. Yeah.
So the hydrant and water systems were designed for
structure fires at individual homes, apartment buildings or
commercial buildings and not. Not large
wildfires. So no one
engineers for a fire like this. According uh to
Marty Adams, the former general manager and chief
(31:09):
engineer at the um
la.
I think they're the Department of Water and Public Works. I forget
what it was but. So this
is not something that water utility is designed for
because it would be prohibitively cost
expensive. It would be hundreds of millions probably
into the billions of dollars to design to fight these
(31:31):
wildfires. Get the muskrat probably, probably into the.
>> Katie (31:33):
Buildings, get them on it.
We'll pay you whatever you want to go to Mars if you can figure out this
wildfire.
>> Zach (31:44):
So because of all those, all
those hydrants uh being used
at numerous different wildfires at the same time, the
tanks got drained very quickly.
Um they ran
out of pressure to pump it uphill and they
even they brought in 19 water trucks
that can carry, that can each carry around 4000 gallons
(32:06):
to help help with fighting
the fires. And usually they would
rely heavily on air support and firefighting
helicopters because of how difficult the terrain is. But due
to the high wind they were grounded and
couldn't help fight those fires. And
when these fires are being being blown at
(32:28):
100mph they're spreading so
fast that they're almost impossible to
contain especially without those air assets. So
it's like there's, I was about.
>> Katie (32:39):
To say yeah this is like literally the worst case apocalyptic
scenario.
>> Zach (32:45):
Yeah. Numerous large wildfires
approaching a suburban city.
>> Katie (32:50):
Incredible winds. Um, you've got
even more, more or less fire
starter than before because of what
happened weather wise with the rain the year before.
Um, you run out of water like literally everything
that could have gone wrong did.
>> Zach (33:10):
Yes. And just
incredibly difficult situation to deal
with. And I,
I'm not sure that you could have designed a system to
handle this. And it sounded like
the LA engineering department, water engineering department
says they don't think they could have designed a system to handle this.
(33:30):
And you would have to if you wanted to even come close you would have
to be, you would be spending probably into the buildings
to protect.
>> Katie (33:37):
You're probably going to get into this in a minute. My favorite
catchphrase. Um, um,
but here's another elephant in the room. California is
like the bluest state in the Union by head and shoulders except
for maybe New York. Um,
wouldn't they be more like environmentally savvy
and concerned than any
(33:59):
other state and they're uh, the state with like all the richest people in the
world. So why
is that like, like they're saying we couldn't have
done it. There's. Okay, well if anybody is Poised to. Would it not
be California? Like politically and
financially?
>> Zach (34:17):
Yeah, M. It. I think if
they start read right.
>> Katie (34:22):
So like that's what I like. Like you guys, you all believe
in climate change, like more so than the average state. I would
say. You've seen that this has been a problem for a long
time, that it will continue to be a problem and that it will
continue to get worse. And you've got more
rich people in California than anywhere else. Uh, did nobody at
any point think, hey, maybe we should start a program
(34:42):
of some sort, like a long term, five to ten year
program? Like, that's why I'm kind of like every
single time I see, uh, it. We couldn't. There's no way. It's impossible.
I like raise an eyebrow because I'm like, okay,
yeah, sure. All right.
>> Zach (34:58):
Time to start implementing solutions now to correct.
>> Katie (35:01):
Or else there will be no la. So.
>> Zach (35:03):
Yeah, yeah,
um, yeah, there,
there are definitely some things that they could start
doing. One thing is, uh, working on making LA more
of a sponge city and less reliant on
water from other states and Northern
California. Um, currently their
system is designed. When
(35:26):
rain falls in la, it's basically immediately just channeled
out of LA through concrete
culverts. Um, environmental,
environmentalists have been pushing to make those more natural
culverts so the water gets into the ground and
seeps into the aquifer and refills the LA
aquifer. Um, but that's
going to take a long time to design and
(35:48):
lots of money that you're gonna need to spend on rewilding and
redesigning these culverts and different green areas
and making LA more of a sponge city as they do
in China and interesting
Amsterdam.
But, um,
(36:08):
so some things I have for how to
deal with or how to prevent such control
these wildfires, these aren't 100
solutions. They'd all. They would all need to be
implemented.
>> Katie (36:21):
Sorry. Uh, I was gonna say they're all clearly better than what
I figured out right now.
So let's hear them.
>> Zach (36:30):
Um, looking into controlled burns,
but because of how many,
um, fire days they have now, it's
difficult to set those off because if you do it during fire day,
you could lose control. If the wind's too strong, you could lose
control. So it's a risk reward that's
difficult to judge. Um, they
need to significantly expand their, uh,
(36:51):
budget to help with
these efforts. Um, work on getting rid of
dead.
>> Katie (36:58):
Yeah, so sorry to cut you off, Zach, for like the
4,000th time, but
that's kind of what surprised Me, because like
again, again, regional differences. No, nobody's better than
anybody else. But here in Arkansas and in the
Southeast in particular, forestry
programs are huge. And I have several friends who
are foresters. Hell, one of our congressmen is a forester
(37:20):
and they never shut up about
undergrowth and brush management. And then
I like now granted, I'm not even going to
remotely act like I know half of what's going on in
California. Not even a tenth of what's going on
in California at any given time. Never been there.
Um, but
I had read somewhere that they don't
(37:43):
do like brush and undergrowth
management. Like it just seems like there's like a non
existent forestry program in the place where you
would think that they literally needed the most.
>> Zach (37:58):
Yeah, I can't speak to the funding or operation
of their forestry department, but yeah,
yeah.
>> Katie (38:04):
And so that was more funding, more.
>> Zach (38:06):
Hours put into it.
>> Katie (38:06):
Mentioned controlled burns and things like that because this is part of that,
that, that uh, you know, but
cultivate, I don't even want to say cultivating but
like peeling back that undergrowth and like
you said controlled burning. And it's just kind
of crazy that that's not something they've invested in when that's
literally exactly like what we said here a few
minutes ago. That's part of what caused us to be as bad as it
(38:29):
is. And clearly there's no
undergrowth management. If they have a God awful
wildfire every single year, that means they're not managing
it. And the wildfires are bad because they're burning all that
undergrowth for one of like 10 billion
reasons.
>> Zach (38:44):
Yeah. One
thing I did read though was that this would not have ah, impacted the
Palisades fire.
>> Katie (38:50):
Oh, that's true.
>> Zach (38:52):
Suburban area where they wouldn't be doing
this. So it is,
it is probably not.
>> Katie (38:59):
A one size fits all.
>> Zach (39:00):
Yeah, Palisade still would have been.
Yeah. Um, there's
also an onus on the uh,
residents to make sure if they're going to
live in these areas they need to have fire hardened
properties. Um, so in
2008, ah, there's a new building code
that required more fire resistant material to be used for home
(39:22):
constructions. Uh, roofs to be made with
terracotta tiles or metal instead of wood, shackles
or shingles.
>> Katie (39:29):
Um, does that not kind of bother you that they're putting the
onus on like homeowners
who are like. And granted you shouldn't just be able to like
willy nilly whatever and then act shocked when
you lose everything. But like, and uh, again I'm
gonna say it again. In a state as affluent as California,
I would like for these solutions to at first come from the
(39:50):
government before they tell me, okay, you gotta tear off
your roof and put terracotta tiles up there because we can't be
bothered to manage our
undergrowth. Like really, like
what? How much do I pay to live here?
>> Zach (40:05):
Yeah, but I don't know. I think this is the more conservative
or libertarian.
>> Katie (40:09):
That is true. It does, it does rely on the individual to do the right
thing here.
>> Zach (40:12):
So the houses that were built to
this new code had a much higher, higher survival rate.
And neighborhoods built with this, these
standards did much better
than previous neighborhoods.
>> Katie (40:25):
Okay, I'll stop playing devil's advocate. Fine.
Your Zach's facts are too good. You've got me beat.
>> Zach (40:31):
Um, yeah, this includes, you gotta,
gotta keep um, brush clear of your
house and keep a little
area to separate from uh, your
neighbor's house that's clear of brush and stuff that could
catch easily.
>> Katie (40:48):
Yeah, uh, that is true. If my neighbor's house burned down and caught mine on
fire, I'd, I'd be absolutely.
Yeah, I'd be in jail.
>> Zach (40:55):
Yeah. So there's like things where like there's a huge
fire like the fires approaching it and it stops. This
one house that's like super fire resistant and
designed to like super high standards and the rest and the whole line
of houses next to it survive because this one house was
good and protected the entire neighborhood. What would you
do for your neighbor if he saved your.
>> Katie (41:14):
Whatever the hell he wanted. Zach. Whatever he wanted
from then on out. Yeah,
he could live in my house.
>> Zach (41:23):
So another thing is installing double pane
windows, um, putting ember
resistant vents in the attics, which is a major issue. I was.
>> Katie (41:32):
That's crazy too. That. Yeah, just stuff you don't think
about like not having it. That is really
crazy.
>> Zach (41:38):
And gotta have a lot of fire resistant material
on the uh, outside part of your house, such as stone,
stucco, brick, stuff
that's going to burn more, burn slowly and
hopefully not catch it all.
>> Katie (41:51):
That is genuinely crazy. I'm sorry, that's not.
>> Zach (41:54):
Yeah. So
these added measures can add up, can add a 3 to
10% onto the cost of new uh,
homes. But if their
survival rate is significant, I think it's a worthy investment
for if you're going to live in these areas. Absolutely.
>> Katie (42:11):
Yeah. If that's what you're going to do.
>> Zach (42:18):
For um, the local, local utilities, they got to beef up their
water system. I don't know how they could meet
the, what they're what these fires would require.
But it's definitely worth looking to investing in this because it's
become, it's going to become a more frequent issue going
forward and it's worth the investment.
Gotta start clearing brush and trees away from transmission
(42:39):
lines and insulate or put
these power lines underground which just
seems.
>> Katie (42:45):
To be the way the world is trending anyway. You might as well.
>> Zach (42:48):
Yeah. And install or maintain remote cameras or weather
stations, detect wind or smoke and other
dangerous uh, weather
activities. And something,
something California is also has started doing
is uh, public safety power
shutoffs, also known as D enter de
energization. So once they pick
(43:09):
up that there's 100 mile per hour winds and they don't think their lines are
going to hold up, they start shutting off electric power. So if
those lines do snap, they don't start a giant
wildfire.
>> Katie (43:19):
Dude, that is so crazy. Can you imagine explaining that to your
grandkids here in like 50 years? We
had to turn off the power because we thought everything was going to burn down.
>> Zach (43:28):
Yeah, yeah. And
that, that's a uh, complicated riskier weighing.
Like you're going to turn off the power, then people aren't going to get a message that
there's a giant fire where ah, you're going to impact
hospitals or other.
>> Katie (43:41):
I would not want to be the one who has to make that call at
all.
>> Zach (43:44):
Yeah, definitely not.
Um,
the cost of fighting fires is
immense.
>> Katie (43:54):
Mhm.
>> Zach (43:54):
So resource management and
fire prevention has grown from 800 million a year in
2005 to an estimated 3.7
billion in 2021. 2022.
>> Katie (44:08):
Oh my God.
>> Zach (44:10):
Yeah. And yeah, I have a little
chart looking at the fire. Fire
suppression investment by quarter and it
is immense.
And how much it's growing, it's basically exponential with
how much they're investing and it's still, they're still getting
these giant wildfires in not
working.
>> Katie (44:30):
Clearly. Yeah, well, and that's
uh, that's cra. Because I'm looking at your graph here. That is so insane
that like even if you do everything right. Tada.
Lightning, New fire. Yeah, that's
so. That's horrible dude.
>> Zach (44:45):
Yeah, it's uh, not a lot
of good options here.
>> Katie (44:49):
Leave California everybody.
>> Zach (44:51):
Yeah, California. Uh, homeowners
insurance rates have increased by more than
43% since uh, 2018.
Oh.
>> Katie (45:00):
So you're not gonna be able to live there anyway. So. Okay. Yeah, I might as
well go.
>> Zach (45:04):
And a lot of insurers are just leaving and they
won't insure in California anymore.
>> Katie (45:09):
Wow.
>> Zach (45:10):
So you could Have a house that's uninsured and be at risk of
wildfire.
>> Katie (45:14):
That's horrible. How do you even sell a house like
that?
>> Zach (45:18):
Yeah. You don't. For the big discount for probably
much less than you bought it for.
>> Katie (45:23):
That's crazy. That's insane.
>> Zach (45:25):
Yeah. And proposed
sweeping safety measures from, um,
post, like, investigation by
California, um, PG. Uh, E. Said
that it would cost him 150
billion to impose, like, these new safety measures, making sure the
lines don't break to prevent wildfires in the future.
>> Katie (45:46):
That is insane.
>> Zach (45:48):
Yeah, I, uh.
>> Katie (45:49):
Like, I can't even. Like, my brain can't even quantify that
amount of money.
>> Zach (45:54):
Yeah. But if you look at the $150 billion
investment versus the quarter trillion
dollars in damage that was done.
>> Katie (46:02):
Yeah.
>> Zach (46:03):
It starts to weigh a little differently.
>> Katie (46:06):
Well, that. And if you're doing what,
like just, uh, looking up at your script
again. Resource management and wildfire prevention has
grown from $800 million in 2005-2006 to
an estimated 3.7 billion in
2001-2022. I guess I'd just rather bite
the bullet up front and pay the 150 instead
(46:26):
of shelling out 4 billion every single year for the
foreseeable future.
>> Zach (46:30):
Yeah, it's.
I don't know.
>> Katie (46:34):
And like you said, not even accounting for property loss and
insurance and stuff like that. Yeah.
>> Zach (46:39):
Ah, California is just in a bad
situation, and I don't know how you can
fully protect it against scenarios like this, especially
with the way climate change is going and the increased
likelihood of these becoming a recurring
phenomenon.
>> Katie (46:56):
Horrible. Horrible. Please pardon the world's
loudest cat in the background trying to see just how
loudly she can use the litter box, um, while
also simultaneously being disabled. Um,
let's. Let's give her a minute. How you doing, Peanut?
She's pooping. Thank you, Peanut.
She looks very determined, though. I'll give her that. How
(47:18):
we doing? We doing okay, Peanut?
Peanut has no thoughts about the wildfire situation.
In fact, Peanut has no thoughts at all. I could have ended the sentence
there and it would have remained correct.
>> Zach (47:31):
All right, should we get to
closing?
>> Katie (47:35):
Yeah. All right. Well, we have some
action steps. Um, no, we
don't, because now I'm looking at it and I'm like, I don't know that there are any
action steps we could. You know what? Here's gonna be my action
step. Um, I know if you're listening to this, you're probably
young and you don't have a ton of money, but I
Recommend you take 15 minutes to google around and see what
(47:55):
you can do to help people who are affected by the wildfires in
California. Whether it's making like a $20 donation or writing a
letter of support to somebody who's been impacted, um,
or, you know, donating a material good of some
sort, um, I'm going to make that your only action
step for this week. Do a little bit of research and see what you can
do to help our friends and neighbors in California. And please
excuse my very loud cat.
(48:21):
I guess we'll go into the closing peanut.
Please don't scream, I swear
for you, our listener. Email us with your
thoughts. Our email is info
greenteapartyradio.com.
>> Zach (48:36):
Yeah. Thank you for listening to Green Tea Party Radio. And a very
special thank you to all our patrons. We couldn't just without
you. If you're interested in getting early access episodes as well as
Green Tea Party Radio merch, check us
out@greentypartyradio.com if you have feedback. Tell us
what's in your mind and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and
TikTok.
>> Katie (48:53):
And just so you know, this is our passion project. We don't
have any organizational sponsor, but that doesn't mean I'm not
open to one. Uh, just a reminder that Green Tea Party
Radio is not representative of the Diocese of Little Rock
Catholic Climate Covenant or any of our employers. We are
young people, young conservatives who are building a movement because we want
the world to know that conservatives, particularly young ones like
us, have important things to say about climate change.
>> Zach (49:16):
And if you want to hear our show and your college radio
station, email
us@infogreenteaparidio.com and give us the
details about your campus and your radio station. That email gets
info at greentparradio. Com.
Thanks for listening.
>> Katie (49:30):
Thank you, everybody.
Wonderful. Let me hit stop.
Hello, and welcome to the Green Tea Party, where we discuss
conservative solutions to environmental problems. My name is Zach
Torpy.
>> Katie (00:09):
And I'm Katie Zachreski. Together, we'll guide you through
complex issues and provide strategies to address them, um,
all while remaining faithful to our conservative
values.
>> Zach (00:18):
Trust me, it'll be a good time.
>> Katie (00:20):
Yeah, it's a party, so grab your mugs
and we'll pour the tea.
Zach, it's been a minute. How are you?
>> Zach (00:29):
I'm good. Got a broken leg, but.
>> Katie (00:32):
Oh, my God. Zach. What?
Were you fighting Nazis again?
>> Zach (00:37):
Oh, I wish.
>> Katie (00:41):
Oh, Lord. Oh, gosh. How'd you do that?
What'd you do?
>> Zach (00:45):
I was just playing basketball.
>> Katie (00:46):
Okay, well, first of all, primarily, most importantly, are
you. Are you okay?
>> Zach (00:51):
Yeah, just turned 30, and now I'm getting
injured every time I play a sport.
>> Katie (00:55):
Uh. Oh, man. Yep. No, gotta hang it up. Sorry,
bud. Oh, my gosh. And you said
you. It was basketball, you said.
>> Zach (01:03):
Yeah, it slipped and, uh, landed
hard on my right knee. Just.
>> Katie (01:09):
Oh, my God.
>> Zach (01:10):
Fractured. Fractured my kneecap. Patella.
>> Katie (01:14):
Gosh. Well, did you win?
>> Zach (01:17):
I did win. That. I did win that game, but I lost.
>> Katie (01:19):
There you go.
You kept playing, and, Zach, I. I think.
I think it's all right that you lost because you had a broken
kneecap. Oh, my word.
Yeah, well, that makes. Ah, well, all right,
well, I think I had. Look, you know
what? We're moving on. Um,
(01:39):
there's no good that will come from this. I was just gonna
say, um, I am also in physical
rehabilitation because several, uh, of my lower vertebrae are
all sorts of goofed right now. Um, so we might be
crippled, but we care enough about the environment to come
here and sit in front of our microphones and tell you more about it. It's.
>> Zach (01:56):
We are small but mighty
banged up podcasters.
>> Katie (02:01):
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Actually. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. If anybody's got, um,
rest, ice, compression, elevation tips, um,
feel free to leave them on our Twitter.
Oh, my Lord. Okay, so let's. Let's
banter a little bit, Zach.
>> Zach (02:18):
Um, we're one week into Trump's
presidency, as of this recording.
>> Katie (02:23):
Wow. It already feels like it's been a decade.
>> Zach (02:25):
He has been very. A very busy man.
>> Katie (02:28):
Very busy man. I don't know when he sleeps. To be honest.
>> Zach (02:31):
I feel he started arguing with, like, so
many presidents and prime
ministers. Mexico.
>> Katie (02:39):
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's the Danes.
Yeah. No, nobody is. Nobody is left untouched.
Yeah, he's. He's taking Greenland. It's the Gulf of
America. Um, and Colombia. Enjoy your
Tariffs. Yeah, no, if I feel like it changes like
every five minutes, so there's no telling what is even going to still
be relevant by the time that this episode comes out. It has been so
(02:59):
hard to plan episodes
this month because I swear every time we get a script
together or hammer out what we're going to talk about, it's almost
irrelevant or half of it's changed or
new, uh, executive orders have been signed. So
yeah, we're just kind of flying by our, by the seat of our
pants right now, I think.
>> Zach (03:18):
Yeah. The fast paced life of
the president. Fast paced life under President
Trump.
>> Katie (03:25):
Yeah. And for anybody who might not be keeping up with it,
um, let me cure your FOMO for you. Um, if you're an
environmentalist, shit's bad. Um, but it's
okay because we're going to keep working towards it because I can
be alive for up to 70 something years. Maybe he
can only be president for four. Uh, if we remain a democracy
that.
>> Zach (03:43):
Is amended to
change a thing, to change the constitution to allow third
term.
>> Katie (03:49):
Yeah.
>> Zach (03:49):
It turns out excluded Obama, which I found kind of funny.
>> Katie (03:52):
Yeah, I know, I love that. They were like, okay, we see your memes
chat. Um, and we've decided. Okay, so
good, uh, luck, uh, George W. Bush
or whoever's running next, um, maybe
Michelle Obama, who knows, maybe I, I
couldn't even begin to guess. I like jokingly said that the other day. I said,
yeah, so in 2028 when Michelle Obama runs for
president. And you know what, bookmark that clip that
(04:15):
chat. Um, I, I want to see some Nostradamus
level memeing as soon as that becomes a reality here
in three, four years.
Um, but yeah, no, I couldn't even begin to
predict how things are going to go. Um,
yeah, so that's where we're at. Um, I don't
even know where to start. These
(04:35):
are, these are not the end times, but damn if we ain't getting
close.
>> Zach (04:40):
Well, people in California would believe it is the end times.
>> Katie (04:43):
Yeah.
>> Zach (04:43):
You know how they're. The start of their year is going.
>> Katie (04:46):
Great segue, Zach.
Let's unfortunately talk about all of the
horrible things going on in California right now.
>> Zach (04:54):
Yeah. Imagine, I mean, literally
felt like hell for a couple, for two weeks
there, there. All of LA was on
fire. They were. So it started
off with three fire, separate fires.
>> Katie (05:08):
Mhm.
>> Zach (05:08):
Fires in Eaton, Palisades and
Hearst. And then over the next couple days,
three more fires started. The uh, fire,
Lydia Wildfire, Kenneth Wildfire.
And was it Sunset
Wildfire not to.
>> Katie (05:23):
Be m this person.
But what is the obsession with naming random weather and climate
change phenomenons now? I feel like
it only used to be hurricanes, now it's winter storms,
now it's fires.
>> Zach (05:34):
I think these are just names of the places that are on fire. Uh, oh, all
right, a little, little more.
>> Katie (05:38):
Can you tell I've had a 13 hour day? Can you, can
you tell that I don't know geography
after working for 12 or 13 hours. Anywho,
I'll, I'll shut up now. Go ahead, Zach.
>> Zach (05:50):
And now that the wildfires
seem to have been abated for the most part because there's always the threat
in California, it seems it's a year round problem.
>> Katie (05:59):
Yeah, like constantly.
>> Zach (06:00):
They now have threats of mudslides
due to all the burned debris
being taken off the mountains by
rain.
>> Katie (06:10):
God said so. I heard Joel's prayers, um,
went a little hard though.
>> Zach (06:16):
Yeah. This is the, uh, m. The God with a monkey
paw.
>> Katie (06:19):
Yeah. Actually though, this is like every biblical.
I think plague is, uh, hitting California as
we speak.
>> Zach (06:25):
You're just sitting up there like, whoops, I, I didn't mean to do
that, but I tried to help.
>> Katie (06:30):
Yeah. Get ready for the Locust Gang.
>> Zach (06:33):
Um, so
the flames were fanned by 100 mile per
hour winds, which led to mass destruction in
the surrounding LA area. It grounded the
air fleet, which made it particularly difficult in the, um, to
fight the fires. It's a major asset in this area because of
how mountainous and how many ridges they have
(06:53):
to deal with. And
so the no air fleet. The areas
are hard to reach with vehicles and ground teams, so people are going on
foot through like canyons, cliffs,
and it was incredibly difficult to fight and
contain. And after two
weeks, only 63
(07:14):
of the Palisades wildfire was contained and
89 of the eat wildfire.
>> Katie (07:19):
I know that they are not paying those folks enough.
>> Zach (07:22):
Oh yeah, I mean, I mean, we're not even gonna
have time to go into the story about, um, Was it
people coming from jails to fight the fires?
>> Katie (07:31):
Oh, yeah, I remember reading about that. I was like, this
is actually apocalyptic stuff right here.
>> Zach (07:36):
Yeah. Like you're
getting a couple hours off your sentence to come fight.
To risk your life to fight a wildfire.
>> Katie (07:45):
Yeah, I'd be like, it's gonna, I'm gonna need more than that, buddy. Get my lawyer
in the room. We're gonna make a deal. I'll put out this whole fire
if y'all let me go.
>> Zach (07:52):
So as of now, as of
this recording, there have been 28 confirmed
deaths. 18, 000
structures have been destroyed. Uh,
over 40,000 acres have been burned.
Tens of thousands people have been forced out of their homes
and a quarter trillion with a T
(08:13):
in damages is estimated.
>> Katie (08:15):
That is insane.
>> Zach (08:17):
Yeah, that's what happened when the property value is really high and
wildfire comes through and burns all the mansions.
>> Katie (08:23):
You know, that's what's kind of crazy about like trying to write a press
release or like a statement about it, like as it was happening
because, like, I would write it one day
and then work on it the next day and then update the stats
and then work on it the next day and update the stats and like every single day
it had like doubled from whatever it was before. It was crazy
to watch.
>> Zach (08:43):
Yeah. So just absolutely
devastating climate
experience. Wildfire. I, uh,
like, and this is with
the increased temperature we are expecting and the
higher estimates they are projecting going forward
with the lack of abatement for
climate change here, we are expecting this to
(09:06):
become more common and more crazy swings
in wildfire.
>> Katie (09:11):
Yikes.
>> Zach (09:12):
I was actually reading an interesting article today that talked
about how the massive amounts of rain
they got, uh, earlier this.
Earlier, I guess earlier last year
led to massive growth in the
mountains and then they had drought. So all
the growth from all that massive rain. I think California got
(09:32):
like half a year's worth of rain in.
>> Katie (09:35):
Oh, I remember seeing that day or.
>> Zach (09:37):
Two atmospheric river
and. Yeah, so massive flooding,
massive rain made all the
foliage in the mountains and the
ridges just explode. And then they experienced drought.
So all that stuff grew and then dried up and
made basically perfect kindling for fire.
>> Katie (09:57):
That's, uh, horrible.
>> Zach (10:00):
So I guess that's an aspect of climate change is
the unpredictability, um, of weather and the it
fluctuating from extreme ends instead of
being more consistent.
M. Nightmare. Yeah.
>> Katie (10:17):
You know, and then people make fun of me for living in Arkansas where everything
gets wiped off the map by a tornado. And then I'm like, huh, huh.
Wait, our, our place doesn't look like hell once a
year? Are you kidding?
>> Zach (10:30):
Yeah. I'm getting more afraid of, uh, living in certain
places. California is out. Uh,
Florida is out.
>> Katie (10:37):
Yeah, good call. Honestly, anywhere east and west coast,
you're either getting like crazy biblical
level fires or it's going to be underwater in
like five years. So, um, everybody,
we're on our way to Ohio.
>> Zach (10:52):
Hey, if you listen to the, to climate scientists, that's where they say the
best place will be to live is the, uh, around the Great Lakes.
>> Katie (11:01):
You heard it here first. Oh
my word.
>> Zach (11:04):
Okay, well, this is those nerds
yeah.
>> Katie (11:07):
Opening up my Zillow and looking around Cleveland. I'll
be back.
>> Zach (11:12):
Cleveland.
>> Katie (11:14):
Yeah, I know that look. No offense to our
Cleveland fans. You know, you got to be pretty bad when
you're looking at moving to
Ohio. I'm allowed to say that because I'm from
Arkansas. So don't, don't come for me.
>> Zach (11:28):
Um, yeah.
So first question we've got, is
our California wildfires becoming more common?
>> Katie (11:36):
Feels like.
>> Zach (11:37):
Yeah. The answer is yes.
>> Katie (11:39):
No. Well there you go.
>> Zach (11:40):
Not that hard.
>> Katie (11:41):
Um, put the points on the board.
>> Zach (11:43):
So they're becoming bigger, they're
occurring more frequently and
California has gone from having
78 annual fire days when
uh, conditions are ripe for like fires to spark
very easily from like lightning
dry, dry conditions.
All the electric wires that always seem to bark
(12:05):
fires.
>> Katie (12:06):
Mhm.
>> Zach (12:06):
Hippies and hippies camping and dropping their lighters.
>> Katie (12:08):
Um, burning man cigarette
dropping.
>> Zach (12:13):
So 78 more annual fire days than
50 years ago.
>> Katie (12:17):
Oh my God.
>> Zach (12:19):
Yeah. So it's becoming basically a year round
condition of you're just, it's in
constant threat of fire days. Um,
California's so called asbestos
forest have lost their immunity. These
were, uh, forests that were, they're like mini
rainforests that were very damp, moist, had lots of
(12:41):
fog. Um, and they have
dried out and now become, now burned.
>> Katie (12:47):
Yeah, ah, tender more or less.
>> Zach (12:48):
And they're not going to protect the California
anymore.
Um, California's become warmer and
drier and the severity of the average
wildfires has increased by 30% from
1980 to 2010.
Um, tree, tree cover in California has decreased
by 7% since 1985.
(13:12):
Um, from combined effects of wildfire
and droughts and bug
infestations. I think there's a certain type of beetle that came over
from Japan or China that's very bad
for um, North American
foliage. Um,
more homes are being built in fire zones with one in
(13:32):
three homes now in fire risk zones.
And you know what's also terrible? Because they're built
in fire zones, those homes are probably either have very
expensive insurance coverage or are now experiencing
the pull out of those insurance coverages.
>> Katie (13:47):
That is horrible.
>> Zach (13:49):
Leaving them at risk financially,
home wise. Everything.
>> Katie (13:54):
See that's one of the costs of climate change that people don't
often account for the insurance
factor that either you can't get insurance in a lot
of these places either because of um, fires or
flooding, or the insurance is so
expensive that you'll go broke just trying to pay it.
>> Zach (14:12):
Yeah. And everyone
feels those effects because higher insurance risks in other
areas get built into policies to cover Those areas
in lower risk areas, like my insurance has gone
up. My HOA has gone up $50
each year for the past two years to cover increases
in insurance and nothing else.
>> Katie (14:31):
HOA, uh. Oh my God. I'd rather be dead.
>> Zach (14:34):
Oh God, I hate it. Never, never
get, never go anywhere with.
>> Katie (14:38):
An HOA Secret final layer of hell.
HOA presidents.
>> Zach (14:42):
You, you want, you want to find government
bureaucracy? Find an hoa.
>> Katie (14:47):
Ab. Absolutely. Oh my God. I cannot think of a
better, a better program for getting
people to condemn bureaucracy. Just, just join the
hoa.
>> Zach (14:56):
And the worst part about HOA is you go to the
meetings and it is the stupidest people you could ever
imagine. Just sitting there yelling at the board. You're like, can
we ask, can we do solve real problems? Can you idiots just
show up for like five seconds?
>> Katie (15:08):
Yeah. All, all the world's hall monitors,
um, compete for HOA president.
>> Zach (15:17):
So in between
1990 and 2010, an estimated
45 of new housing units were constructed in
wildland urban interfaces where uh,
suburbia and rural towns back up to like wild and
combustible landscapes. And where these fire risk
zones are, um,
(15:38):
and more, more trees are dying due to fluctuation,
fluctuating conditions from the
drought and inconsistent weather conditions.
Um, one in ten California
wildfires is related to the energy equipment.
Gotta love those PG E wires coming down and sparking
wildfires and burning everyone's house down.
>> Katie (15:57):
Yeah. Aren't they still like investigating whether or not that was
the cause of this incident? I think that they're like trying to figure
out if it was like a cigarette or like downed power lines or something like
that. If they figured that out yet, I might be getting ahead of myself.
>> Zach (16:09):
Uh, the reports aren't out yet, but I was reading something
of like preliminary reports are one of
the fires may have been human caused. One of the fires may
have been, uh, electrical wire.
There's so many fires that, yeah, it's.
>> Katie (16:23):
Hard to pinpoint what's responsible.
>> Zach (16:26):
Many different culprits, probably.
>> Katie (16:27):
Yeah, actually probably more than one.
>> Zach (16:31):
Um,
so warming climate has altered the background conditions for these
wildfires. Uh, researchers out
of UCLA say that with every degree of
warming, the atmosphere is able to evaporate and
absorb and release 7% more
water. So the expanded,
the expanding atmospheric sponge as
(16:54):
the science sciences term it, not only leads to flood
flooding when things are wetter, but it pulls extra moisture out of
the plants and soils when the drier conditions set in.
So atmosphere gets hotter, it's able to absorb more
water, which is
bad for dry areas.
>> Katie (17:12):
Yeah, that Makes sense.
>> Zach (17:15):
Um, the climate change also boosted what they
call whiplash conditions globally by 31 to
60, 66%. Um,
which is going from the extreme rainfalls to the extreme
drought, which is exactly what California experienced this
past year and a half.
>> Katie (17:31):
Mhm.
>> Zach (17:32):
And models are suggesting
a doubling of the volatility for a global temperature
warming. If we reach 3 degrees Celsius,
which is looking increasingly likely
that we will go beyond that.
California, prepare for this to be
your low end.
>> Katie (17:50):
More. More of the same. Yeah. So.
And you might be getting ready to get into this, Zach, but I want to address
the elephant in the room. Um,
a lot of Republicans
have accused DEI
for the wildfires.
And their argument, from what I surmise by
(18:12):
scanning through some of the
most brilliant arguments you've ever read in your life,
um, is that
because unqualified people were put in
leadership positions to check a box,
this happened.
But from what you've said, this has
(18:32):
clearly been going on for
decades. What are
your thoughts on that theory or
accusation? And I. That probably sounds
like a leading question. Um, but
you know what, let's just get into that real quick, if you don't mind. What are
your thoughts on that? And obviously, you know, you did a lot of the research
for this episode. What. What stands out to you?
(18:55):
What are your thoughts on that? I'll just, I'll just shut up. Go on.
>> Zach (18:58):
I, uh, find when people are arguing,
when someone throws out that someone was a DEI
hire, it just seems like a very
unqualified and unresearched statement. Because
you have to explain why you believe they were DEI
hire. Just because they were a woman or person of color
doesn't make them DEI m. Like they could be
(19:21):
highly qualified, served two
decades in their service and earn their way
up.
>> Katie (19:27):
Mhm.
>> Zach (19:27):
If you're going to accuse someone of being dei you need
to come with facts, figures. Be like, this person was
unqualified. This person didn't deserve this job. You can't
just say it. And I feel like I've never, I
haven't seen any backing up of those
accusations.
>> Katie (19:43):
Now, yeah, now I will say what I've
seen and God only knows, this could have been
taken out of context. Um,
I think I saw a couple things that were kind of like they
make you scratch your head, if that makes sense. Like one of them
was like an interview with like, I don't know, I think she was
like the LA fire chief. I have no
(20:03):
idea. But she was talking about
how people often say that
they wouldn't want a woman firefighter,
like dragging them down three flights of
stairs or carrying them off scene of
a fire. And she was like, well, my response to that is, you know,
if you have to say that, you shouldn't have gotten yourself in that situation in the
(20:23):
first place, like, trying to be, like, really cool, but at the same
time, like, buddy, you're a fire chief.
Like, if people could prevent
their accidents, you'd be out of a job. So,
like, like, so there was that and there was like, a couple
things where, like, people were bragging about
not having an adequate budget to fight
(20:43):
fires and saying that they haven't had the budget to
sufficiently, you know, like, forest management and things like
that for years. Um, which, based
on this script here, you're, you're going to get into the water system,
um, here in a minute. But I mean, like,
he. Okay, my take is, for
whatever it's worth, which is really zilch at the end
(21:05):
of the deck. I don't know that the right
people were in place for these jobs,
but I don't know that we can blame people who have been in
these positions, like several people who have been
in all of these positions for,
I don't know, everybody I saw was in their 30s or
40s, so probably no more than 20
years for issues that have been going on
(21:27):
for 30 to 40 to 50.
So, like, while I don't think that the most qualified
people held these positions, clearly, uh, because this has
been an ongoing problem for decades
and nobody's offered to do anything about it or managed to do anything
about it, people have also not managed to do
anything about it for decades. Therefore, I don't think it was
(21:48):
because they were checking a box that this went south. I just think
that, like, the state of
California's way as a whole of managing wildfires
is clearly lacking.
So. So, I mean, I think that for me,
that's the angle, that's the comfortable middle. They, um,
always say, if you want to figure out what the truth is, look at both
extremes and meet somewhere in the middle.
(22:10):
Um, another thing that I don't know if you're going to touch
on or not, but this might just be like the political
application of Republicans wanting to
withhold wildfire
aid to California. First of all, that
is absolutely insane to me, especially
for the political party who claims to be pro life
to say that we don't care about literally
(22:31):
lives, uh, because the state is blue, they
don't have the same letter behind their name that we do.
>> Zach (22:36):
That. That's just weaponization of having
federal office. And I think it is
Entirely unprofessional. I, I
also question when these people are
saying these are DEI hires and
California doesn't deserve federal aid. What did,
what was done when North Carolina and
(22:56):
yeah.
>> Katie (23:00):
Not to be that.
>> Zach (23:01):
Person, but those were experiences
of failures of those were damn failures
that should have been known about
and been. They were predictable based
on models that they could, that you can run.
>> Katie (23:15):
Yeah, nobody was talking about DEI hires, them.
>> Zach (23:18):
I've, I've been in damn meetings where we discussed
how, discussion reaction for dam,
how to model if a DAM is going to fail, how it's going to react
to a 500 year storm, which is what they experienced.
So I think in both scenarios
it's a lack of investing in the
infrastructure, but it's also the amount of investment
(23:39):
in this infrastructure you would need to meet
these very,
what is considered rare conditions and very
dangerous conditions is very difficult. You need to invest
hundreds of millions of dollars to be able
to design for a 500 year storm
event, which is, you know, crazy.
>> Katie (23:58):
And I think that what makes me mad is it like, yeah, I get
it. Here's how politics works. You pick on the thing
that's trending in the media to get as much
traction as you can out of it. I'm not an idiot and I
get DEI is the big thing in the media right now
because Trump is shutting all down all the DEI stuff.
But would this not have been the easiest
layup in favor of the Department of
(24:20):
Government Efficiency to be
like, why do these things keep happening
if we've got presumably
well paid people who are
bureaucratically in charge of all of these
disaster management responses and they keep fumbling the
ball like I, I personally. And granted
they'll never elect me because I have common sense. You can put that on the
(24:42):
record. Um, that is the angle
that I would have gone for other than you see, the wildfires
are racist. Like I don't think, I don't think. No, that wasn't the
angle. Like, I'd have been like, I can't think of a better
argument for streamlining and taking
better inventory of our federal
programs and our government
programs. We're going to help California, but how do
(25:05):
we prevent this? Like, like that for me would have been the easiest
layup and we went with the most brain rot
argument imaginable for this one.
>> Zach (25:13):
Yeah, there are much better arguments to be had and much better.
Like if you're making these arguments come with solutions,
come with ideas.
>> Katie (25:19):
Yeah, absolutely. Like give me, give
me a solution. What is your big idea then? Which you
don't like it. What's your proposal for fixing it?
>> Zach (25:28):
Republicans now control all three
branches of the government, the federal government. And
if you're, you can't, you can no longer complain
about what's going on.
>> Katie (25:39):
Yeah, y'all are in charge.
>> Zach (25:40):
You now have, you are in charge. You have to be the solutions oriented party.
>> Katie (25:42):
They're like, man, who, who's responsible for this mess? I want to talk to the guy
in charge. Well, that would be you.
>> Zach (25:46):
The buck stops here.
>> Katie (25:48):
Yeah, that, that would be you. What are you gonna do about
it? So, yeah, let's talk about now.
Now that I've gone on this tangent and we've talked a little bit
about politics, um, and
how to twist them. Um, one of the big things that
I've been hearing about is the water system not being
adequate, not having enough funding, not having enough access
to water. They literally ran out of water, which, which is an
(26:10):
idea that's absolutely unfathomable to me here in
Arkansas. Like, it's just, I can't,
I still can't wrap my brain around that one. I've never been able to wrap my brain around
that one. Zach, you, you, you are, you're a
research wizard here. You break out the Zach's facts.
Was the water system adequate, would you say?
>> Zach (26:27):
All right, so let's start this with. When you think of la,
you think of palm trees, you think of
green grass, lawns.
>> Katie (26:34):
Mhm.
>> Zach (26:35):
Think of very ornamental lawns. That
is a lie. LA is a
desert.
>> Katie (26:41):
There shouldn't be.
>> Zach (26:42):
No, there shouldn't be this type of
grass. There shouldn't be palm trees. It is a desert.
Should be very sparse
foliage. And they
import their water from Northern California. They take
it from the Colorado river also. They take it from all
over, which is. As a Coloradoan,
(27:03):
we, uh,
very much do not like California taking more than their
fair share of water.
>> Katie (27:09):
Makes sense.
>> Zach (27:10):
Which we can go into another podcast about.
Um, so this is a desert,
so you get very dry conditions. So all their water
has to be brought in from other areas and
stored in
reservoirs and storage
tanks. And the areas
that caught fire where these wildfires were
(27:31):
occurring were in
the eastern part of la
towards like, ridges and mountains. So they're up, uh,
they're up, uh,
they're, they're at a increase
in height. So you have to pump that water.
>> Katie (27:48):
Yeah, I'm pulling up a map right now.
>> Zach (27:50):
Yeah, you have to pump water uphill to these
areas to fight fires. So it's a very difficult
situation to design for and very
expensive. As someone I work in water
engineering. So this. It's in my ballpark. M.
So yeah.
>> Katie (28:06):
Um, and I guess that's where I'm kind of confused being in a
landlocked state because they're next to the
ocean, but they're next to. They're next to the ocean. So I guess
that that's what's been like confusing me this whole
time because they're like we're out of water. And then I'm like
pans to look at all of
the water. So. But. But
(28:27):
yeah, you're. You're the engineer. Make it make sense. Zach.
Yeah.
>> Zach (28:32):
Do you remember that those 100 mile per hour winds I was talking
about.
>> Katie (28:36):
So that's a
problem.
>> Zach (28:40):
So they. They couldn't find those giant. I
uh, forgot. I forgot what they were called C.
Something. Those giant airplanes that go down, scoop water and then
deliver it to the mountains. They couldn't fly
those. They couldn't fly their helicopters that are also do that. They
couldn't fly. Also one of
those. One. One of the aircraft got hit by a
drone of someone trying to film them do this.
(29:02):
It was like. It.
>> Katie (29:04):
It might.
>> Zach (29:05):
It might terrible people. People who
interfere with drones. Oh my God. That.
>> Katie (29:11):
Whatever it is control delete. Um,
we've gone too far as.
>> Zach (29:20):
Um. Yeah. So fire hydrants in both the
Palisades eating fires did stop working.
>> Katie (29:26):
That is insane. I would
get it if it was like after day 10 or something.
>> Zach (29:31):
Yeah.
>> Katie (29:32):
The first 24 hours.
Oh yeah. Someone needs to be fired.
>> Zach (29:38):
So.
So. But
um, the um,
Metropolitan Water District of Southern California said that there
was way more water in local storage than you could ever fight a fire
with. So they're saying that they had plenty of water. They had
enough water. Roughly three years water
(30:01):
demand for LA.
And the
systems got. Were operating for
15 hours straight at four
times normal demand, which lowered the water pressure, which meant
they can't pump the water up the hill
to the station.
>> Katie (30:20):
This is going to be somebody's village origin story. I'm not even kidding with you
right now.
>> Zach (30:26):
So an 8 inch PVC pipe can pump around
2800 gallons per minute.
Um, and which is a
lot of water. But you also need. You need those pipes
to be filled with water because if you're. If
those pipes empty out, they could also, um. You could also
collapse those pipes, which is a major design
(30:46):
concern.
>> Katie (30:47):
Yeah. Be even worse. Yeah, yeah.
>> Zach (30:49):
If that happened during the fires. Yeah.
So the hydrant and water systems were designed for
structure fires at individual homes, apartment buildings or
commercial buildings and not. Not large
wildfires. So no one
engineers for a fire like this. According uh to
Marty Adams, the former general manager and chief
(31:09):
engineer at the um
la.
I think they're the Department of Water and Public Works. I forget
what it was but. So this
is not something that water utility is designed for
because it would be prohibitively cost
expensive. It would be hundreds of millions probably
into the billions of dollars to design to fight these
(31:31):
wildfires. Get the muskrat probably, probably into the.
>> Katie (31:33):
Buildings, get them on it.
We'll pay you whatever you want to go to Mars if you can figure out this
wildfire.
>> Zach (31:44):
So because of all those, all
those hydrants uh being used
at numerous different wildfires at the same time, the
tanks got drained very quickly.
Um they ran
out of pressure to pump it uphill and they
even they brought in 19 water trucks
that can carry, that can each carry around 4000 gallons
(32:06):
to help help with fighting
the fires. And usually they would
rely heavily on air support and firefighting
helicopters because of how difficult the terrain is. But due
to the high wind they were grounded and
couldn't help fight those fires. And
when these fires are being being blown at
(32:28):
100mph they're spreading so
fast that they're almost impossible to
contain especially without those air assets. So
it's like there's, I was about.
>> Katie (32:39):
To say yeah this is like literally the worst case apocalyptic
scenario.
>> Zach (32:45):
Yeah. Numerous large wildfires
approaching a suburban city.
>> Katie (32:50):
Incredible winds. Um, you've got
even more, more or less fire
starter than before because of what
happened weather wise with the rain the year before.
Um, you run out of water like literally everything
that could have gone wrong did.
>> Zach (33:10):
Yes. And just
incredibly difficult situation to deal
with. And I,
I'm not sure that you could have designed a system to
handle this. And it sounded like
the LA engineering department, water engineering department
says they don't think they could have designed a system to handle this.
(33:30):
And you would have to if you wanted to even come close you would have
to be, you would be spending probably into the buildings
to protect.
>> Katie (33:37):
You're probably going to get into this in a minute. My favorite
catchphrase. Um, um,
but here's another elephant in the room. California is
like the bluest state in the Union by head and shoulders except
for maybe New York. Um,
wouldn't they be more like environmentally savvy
and concerned than any
(33:59):
other state and they're uh, the state with like all the richest people in the
world. So why
is that like, like they're saying we couldn't have
done it. There's. Okay, well if anybody is Poised to. Would it not
be California? Like politically and
financially?
>> Zach (34:17):
Yeah, M. It. I think if
they start read right.
>> Katie (34:22):
So like that's what I like. Like you guys, you all believe
in climate change, like more so than the average state. I would
say. You've seen that this has been a problem for a long
time, that it will continue to be a problem and that it will
continue to get worse. And you've got more
rich people in California than anywhere else. Uh, did nobody at
any point think, hey, maybe we should start a program
(34:42):
of some sort, like a long term, five to ten year
program? Like, that's why I'm kind of like every
single time I see, uh, it. We couldn't. There's no way. It's impossible.
I like raise an eyebrow because I'm like, okay,
yeah, sure. All right.
>> Zach (34:58):
Time to start implementing solutions now to correct.
>> Katie (35:01):
Or else there will be no la. So.
>> Zach (35:03):
Yeah, yeah,
um, yeah, there,
there are definitely some things that they could start
doing. One thing is, uh, working on making LA more
of a sponge city and less reliant on
water from other states and Northern
California. Um, currently their
system is designed. When
(35:26):
rain falls in la, it's basically immediately just channeled
out of LA through concrete
culverts. Um, environmental,
environmentalists have been pushing to make those more natural
culverts so the water gets into the ground and
seeps into the aquifer and refills the LA
aquifer. Um, but that's
going to take a long time to design and
(35:48):
lots of money that you're gonna need to spend on rewilding and
redesigning these culverts and different green areas
and making LA more of a sponge city as they do
in China and interesting
Amsterdam.
But, um,
(36:08):
so some things I have for how to
deal with or how to prevent such control
these wildfires, these aren't 100
solutions. They'd all. They would all need to be
implemented.
>> Katie (36:21):
Sorry. Uh, I was gonna say they're all clearly better than what
I figured out right now.
So let's hear them.
>> Zach (36:30):
Um, looking into controlled burns,
but because of how many,
um, fire days they have now, it's
difficult to set those off because if you do it during fire day,
you could lose control. If the wind's too strong, you could lose
control. So it's a risk reward that's
difficult to judge. Um, they
need to significantly expand their, uh,
(36:51):
budget to help with
these efforts. Um, work on getting rid of
dead.
>> Katie (36:58):
Yeah, so sorry to cut you off, Zach, for like the
4,000th time, but
that's kind of what surprised Me, because like
again, again, regional differences. No, nobody's better than
anybody else. But here in Arkansas and in the
Southeast in particular, forestry
programs are huge. And I have several friends who
are foresters. Hell, one of our congressmen is a forester
(37:20):
and they never shut up about
undergrowth and brush management. And then
I like now granted, I'm not even going to
remotely act like I know half of what's going on in
California. Not even a tenth of what's going on
in California at any given time. Never been there.
Um, but
I had read somewhere that they don't
(37:43):
do like brush and undergrowth
management. Like it just seems like there's like a non
existent forestry program in the place where you
would think that they literally needed the most.
>> Zach (37:58):
Yeah, I can't speak to the funding or operation
of their forestry department, but yeah,
yeah.
>> Katie (38:04):
And so that was more funding, more.
>> Zach (38:06):
Hours put into it.
>> Katie (38:06):
Mentioned controlled burns and things like that because this is part of that,
that, that uh, you know, but
cultivate, I don't even want to say cultivating but
like peeling back that undergrowth and like
you said controlled burning. And it's just kind
of crazy that that's not something they've invested in when that's
literally exactly like what we said here a few
minutes ago. That's part of what caused us to be as bad as it
(38:29):
is. And clearly there's no
undergrowth management. If they have a God awful
wildfire every single year, that means they're not managing
it. And the wildfires are bad because they're burning all that
undergrowth for one of like 10 billion
reasons.
>> Zach (38:44):
Yeah. One
thing I did read though was that this would not have ah, impacted the
Palisades fire.
>> Katie (38:50):
Oh, that's true.
>> Zach (38:52):
Suburban area where they wouldn't be doing
this. So it is,
it is probably not.
>> Katie (38:59):
A one size fits all.
>> Zach (39:00):
Yeah, Palisade still would have been.
Yeah. Um, there's
also an onus on the uh,
residents to make sure if they're going to
live in these areas they need to have fire hardened
properties. Um, so in
2008, ah, there's a new building code
that required more fire resistant material to be used for home
(39:22):
constructions. Uh, roofs to be made with
terracotta tiles or metal instead of wood, shackles
or shingles.
>> Katie (39:29):
Um, does that not kind of bother you that they're putting the
onus on like homeowners
who are like. And granted you shouldn't just be able to like
willy nilly whatever and then act shocked when
you lose everything. But like, and uh, again I'm
gonna say it again. In a state as affluent as California,
I would like for these solutions to at first come from the
(39:50):
government before they tell me, okay, you gotta tear off
your roof and put terracotta tiles up there because we can't be
bothered to manage our
undergrowth. Like really, like
what? How much do I pay to live here?
>> Zach (40:05):
Yeah, but I don't know. I think this is the more conservative
or libertarian.
>> Katie (40:09):
That is true. It does, it does rely on the individual to do the right
thing here.
>> Zach (40:12):
So the houses that were built to
this new code had a much higher, higher survival rate.
And neighborhoods built with this, these
standards did much better
than previous neighborhoods.
>> Katie (40:25):
Okay, I'll stop playing devil's advocate. Fine.
Your Zach's facts are too good. You've got me beat.
>> Zach (40:31):
Um, yeah, this includes, you gotta,
gotta keep um, brush clear of your
house and keep a little
area to separate from uh, your
neighbor's house that's clear of brush and stuff that could
catch easily.
>> Katie (40:48):
Yeah, uh, that is true. If my neighbor's house burned down and caught mine on
fire, I'd, I'd be absolutely.
Yeah, I'd be in jail.
>> Zach (40:55):
Yeah. So there's like things where like there's a huge
fire like the fires approaching it and it stops. This
one house that's like super fire resistant and
designed to like super high standards and the rest and the whole line
of houses next to it survive because this one house was
good and protected the entire neighborhood. What would you
do for your neighbor if he saved your.
>> Katie (41:14):
Whatever the hell he wanted. Zach. Whatever he wanted
from then on out. Yeah,
he could live in my house.
>> Zach (41:23):
So another thing is installing double pane
windows, um, putting ember
resistant vents in the attics, which is a major issue. I was.
>> Katie (41:32):
That's crazy too. That. Yeah, just stuff you don't think
about like not having it. That is really
crazy.
>> Zach (41:38):
And gotta have a lot of fire resistant material
on the uh, outside part of your house, such as stone,
stucco, brick, stuff
that's going to burn more, burn slowly and
hopefully not catch it all.
>> Katie (41:51):
That is genuinely crazy. I'm sorry, that's not.
>> Zach (41:54):
Yeah. So
these added measures can add up, can add a 3 to
10% onto the cost of new uh,
homes. But if their
survival rate is significant, I think it's a worthy investment
for if you're going to live in these areas. Absolutely.
>> Katie (42:11):
Yeah. If that's what you're going to do.
>> Zach (42:18):
For um, the local, local utilities, they got to beef up their
water system. I don't know how they could meet
the, what they're what these fires would require.
But it's definitely worth looking to investing in this because it's
become, it's going to become a more frequent issue going
forward and it's worth the investment.
Gotta start clearing brush and trees away from transmission
(42:39):
lines and insulate or put
these power lines underground which just
seems.
>> Katie (42:45):
To be the way the world is trending anyway. You might as well.
>> Zach (42:48):
Yeah. And install or maintain remote cameras or weather
stations, detect wind or smoke and other
dangerous uh, weather
activities. And something,
something California is also has started doing
is uh, public safety power
shutoffs, also known as D enter de
energization. So once they pick
(43:09):
up that there's 100 mile per hour winds and they don't think their lines are
going to hold up, they start shutting off electric power. So if
those lines do snap, they don't start a giant
wildfire.
>> Katie (43:19):
Dude, that is so crazy. Can you imagine explaining that to your
grandkids here in like 50 years? We
had to turn off the power because we thought everything was going to burn down.
>> Zach (43:28):
Yeah, yeah. And
that, that's a uh, complicated riskier weighing.
Like you're going to turn off the power, then people aren't going to get a message that
there's a giant fire where ah, you're going to impact
hospitals or other.
>> Katie (43:41):
I would not want to be the one who has to make that call at
all.
>> Zach (43:44):
Yeah, definitely not.
Um,
the cost of fighting fires is
immense.
>> Katie (43:54):
Mhm.
>> Zach (43:54):
So resource management and
fire prevention has grown from 800 million a year in
2005 to an estimated 3.7
billion in 2021. 2022.
>> Katie (44:08):
Oh my God.
>> Zach (44:10):
Yeah. And yeah, I have a little
chart looking at the fire. Fire
suppression investment by quarter and it
is immense.
And how much it's growing, it's basically exponential with
how much they're investing and it's still, they're still getting
these giant wildfires in not
working.
>> Katie (44:30):
Clearly. Yeah, well, and that's
uh, that's cra. Because I'm looking at your graph here. That is so insane
that like even if you do everything right. Tada.
Lightning, New fire. Yeah, that's
so. That's horrible dude.
>> Zach (44:45):
Yeah, it's uh, not a lot
of good options here.
>> Katie (44:49):
Leave California everybody.
>> Zach (44:51):
Yeah, California. Uh, homeowners
insurance rates have increased by more than
43% since uh, 2018.
Oh.
>> Katie (45:00):
So you're not gonna be able to live there anyway. So. Okay. Yeah, I might as
well go.
>> Zach (45:04):
And a lot of insurers are just leaving and they
won't insure in California anymore.
>> Katie (45:09):
Wow.
>> Zach (45:10):
So you could Have a house that's uninsured and be at risk of
wildfire.
>> Katie (45:14):
That's horrible. How do you even sell a house like
that?
>> Zach (45:18):
Yeah. You don't. For the big discount for probably
much less than you bought it for.
>> Katie (45:23):
That's crazy. That's insane.
>> Zach (45:25):
Yeah. And proposed
sweeping safety measures from, um,
post, like, investigation by
California, um, PG. Uh, E. Said
that it would cost him 150
billion to impose, like, these new safety measures, making sure the
lines don't break to prevent wildfires in the future.
>> Katie (45:46):
That is insane.
>> Zach (45:48):
Yeah, I, uh.
>> Katie (45:49):
Like, I can't even. Like, my brain can't even quantify that
amount of money.
>> Zach (45:54):
Yeah. But if you look at the $150 billion
investment versus the quarter trillion
dollars in damage that was done.
>> Katie (46:02):
Yeah.
>> Zach (46:03):
It starts to weigh a little differently.
>> Katie (46:06):
Well, that. And if you're doing what,
like just, uh, looking up at your script
again. Resource management and wildfire prevention has
grown from $800 million in 2005-2006 to
an estimated 3.7 billion in
2001-2022. I guess I'd just rather bite
the bullet up front and pay the 150 instead
(46:26):
of shelling out 4 billion every single year for the
foreseeable future.
>> Zach (46:30):
Yeah, it's.
I don't know.
>> Katie (46:34):
And like you said, not even accounting for property loss and
insurance and stuff like that. Yeah.
>> Zach (46:39):
Ah, California is just in a bad
situation, and I don't know how you can
fully protect it against scenarios like this, especially
with the way climate change is going and the increased
likelihood of these becoming a recurring
phenomenon.
>> Katie (46:56):
Horrible. Horrible. Please pardon the world's
loudest cat in the background trying to see just how
loudly she can use the litter box, um, while
also simultaneously being disabled. Um,
let's. Let's give her a minute. How you doing, Peanut?
She's pooping. Thank you, Peanut.
She looks very determined, though. I'll give her that. How
(47:18):
we doing? We doing okay, Peanut?
Peanut has no thoughts about the wildfire situation.
In fact, Peanut has no thoughts at all. I could have ended the sentence
there and it would have remained correct.
>> Zach (47:31):
All right, should we get to
closing?
>> Katie (47:35):
Yeah. All right. Well, we have some
action steps. Um, no, we
don't, because now I'm looking at it and I'm like, I don't know that there are any
action steps we could. You know what? Here's gonna be my action
step. Um, I know if you're listening to this, you're probably
young and you don't have a ton of money, but I
Recommend you take 15 minutes to google around and see what
(47:55):
you can do to help people who are affected by the wildfires in
California. Whether it's making like a $20 donation or writing a
letter of support to somebody who's been impacted, um,
or, you know, donating a material good of some
sort, um, I'm going to make that your only action
step for this week. Do a little bit of research and see what you can
do to help our friends and neighbors in California. And please
excuse my very loud cat.
(48:21):
I guess we'll go into the closing peanut.
Please don't scream, I swear
for you, our listener. Email us with your
thoughts. Our email is info
greenteapartyradio.com.
>> Zach (48:36):
Yeah. Thank you for listening to Green Tea Party Radio. And a very
special thank you to all our patrons. We couldn't just without
you. If you're interested in getting early access episodes as well as
Green Tea Party Radio merch, check us
out@greentypartyradio.com if you have feedback. Tell us
what's in your mind and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and
TikTok.
>> Katie (48:53):
And just so you know, this is our passion project. We don't
have any organizational sponsor, but that doesn't mean I'm not
open to one. Uh, just a reminder that Green Tea Party
Radio is not representative of the Diocese of Little Rock
Catholic Climate Covenant or any of our employers. We are
young people, young conservatives who are building a movement because we want
the world to know that conservatives, particularly young ones like
us, have important things to say about climate change.
>> Zach (49:16):
And if you want to hear our show and your college radio
station, email
us@infogreenteaparidio.com and give us the
details about your campus and your radio station. That email gets
info at greentparradio. Com.
Thanks for listening.
>> Katie (49:30):
Thank you, everybody.
Wonderful. Let me hit stop.
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