February 23, 2023 • 31 mins
Find Jorim’s courses here → https://emergetoprosper.com/#courses
Can you have both Redundancy and Efficiency in business?
Make sure to watch this entire episode with Jorim Holtey-Weber and I as we explore whether this is even possible for business.
We also talk about the interdependence that we have with nature and with everyone else in the population, because if you want to go fast: go alone. If you want to go far: go together.
Chapters 0:00 - Interdependence in Nature, Our Lives & Business 1:20 - First principle of nature and how it applies to business 1:43 - The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey 3:33 - Mindset shift 5:30 - If you want to go far, go together 7:58 - Efficiency vs Redundancy 10:15 - What to do with redundancy 14:10 - Efficiency: 80/20 rule 15:18 - Networking 80/20 16:28 - Work that Jorim does with his clients 19:36 - Seasonal Affective Disorder 21:58 - Goals for the next 6 months 23:12 - What Jorim is learning right now 24:17 - Main takeaway 24:20 - The Illusion of Separation by Giles Hutchins 27:23 - Regenerative farming 29:03 - Best way to get in touch with Jorim: emergetoprosper.com & LinkedIn
Find Jorim’s courses:
https://emergetoprosper.com/#courses
Check out Emerge to Prosper’s website:
Connect with Jorim Hotley-Weber on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jholteyweber/
We mention the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey:
Jorim mentions the Illusion of Separation: Exploring the Cause of our Current Crises by Giles Hutchins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
As we look to explore the answer to this question and so many more during this amazing interview. 3 00:00:49,750.612244898 --> 00:00:50,110.612244898 all right. 4 00:00:50,120.612244898 --> 00:00:53,150.612244898 I'm very excited to have Jorim here on the call today. 5 00:00:53,150.612244898 --> 00:01:03,760.612244898 He's gonna be talking to us about how we can use aspects of nature and apply them to business and how we can investigate planetary health and apply those principles to business as well. 6 00:01:03,770.612244898 --> 00:01:07,500.612244898 But how we can also use business to boost our planet's health. 7 00:01:07,680.612244898 --> 00:01:08,280.612244898 All together. 8 00:01:08,280.612244898 --> 00:01:19,311.12244898 So Jorim, let's zoom out together and start us off with, one principle of nature and how it applies to business, and then we can explore others throughout our talk today. 9 00:01:19,366.12244898 --> 00:01:23,666.12244898 I'm really happy to be here and I'm always happy to talk about these topics too. 10 00:01:23,816.12244898 --> 00:01:28,956.12244898 So I think the most important principle of nature is interdependence. 11 00:01:28,961.12244898 --> 00:01:29,711.12244898 So that means. 12 00:01:29,721.12244898 --> 00:01:34,86.12244898 We depend on each other and, not just on other people, but also on nature. 13 00:01:34,266.12244898 --> 00:01:36,486.12244898 And nature also depends on us to a degree. 14 00:01:36,496.12244898 --> 00:01:40,461.12244898 And I think in business and in personal life, sometimes that is forgotten. 15 00:01:40,761.12244898 --> 00:01:46,451.12244898 Steven Coby wrote about it in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People that many people strive to be in. 16 00:01:46,461.12244898 --> 00:01:47,901.12244898 I wanna be independent. 17 00:01:47,901.12244898 --> 00:01:50,193.39002268 I want to, decide myself what I can do. 18 00:01:50,204.53514739 --> 00:01:56,869.21768707 And the direction is good, but you cannot achieve independence because, if you live in a society, you need money. 19 00:01:56,874.21768707 --> 00:02:00,219.21768707 Where does that money come from? It is somebody that is coming from. 20 00:02:00,229.21768707 --> 00:02:02,589.21768707 So you are always dependence. 21 00:02:02,644.21768707 --> 00:02:02,914.21768707 Okay. 22 00:02:02,914.21768707 --> 00:02:04,734.21768707 You're always dependent on somebody. 23 00:02:04,744.21768707 --> 00:02:21,19.21768707 So what he said is, it is good to strive for a certain level of independence, but knowing that it's not possible to actually achieve it and rather focus on choosing interdependence, meaning giving and taking, and, not doing that from a sense of need. 24 00:02:21,29.21768707 --> 00:02:22,799.21768707 If you're dependent, you're needing it. 25 00:02:22,809.21768707 --> 00:02:27,114.3877551 But if you're acting from a state of interdependence, it's like I'm choosing to interact with you. 26 00:02:27,114.3877551 --> 00:02:28,663.90022676 I'm choosing to do business with you. 27 00:02:28,963.90022676 --> 00:02:32,383.90022676 I'm choosing to have you as my client, I'm choosing to offer this. 28 00:02:32,398.90022676 --> 00:02:38,783.90022676 Which is, on a spiritual level, of course, something completely different, but also on a psychological level, something completely. 29 00:02:39,287.23356009 --> 00:02:40,37.23356009 Yeah, definitely. 30 00:02:40,37.23356009 --> 00:02:45,213.01814059 And think that brings up a really valid point and you mentioned that nature is interdependent on. 31 00:02:45,223.01814059 --> 00:02:51,873.59637188 Other, species in the environment they're interdependent on, we are interdependent on nature in so many aspects. 32 00:02:51,931.32879819 --> 00:02:58,351.32879819 We wouldn't be able to provide ourselves with food, with nutrients, with our nutrition without nature. 33 00:02:58,379.37868481 --> 00:03:00,75.3537415 That'd be completely impossible. 34 00:03:00,75.3537415 --> 00:03:04,895.98866213 So being able to, realize that you are interdependent with other. 35 00:03:04,905.98866213 --> 00:03:10,840.59183673 People with the environment, with realizing, how much we really depend on other things is really important. 36 00:03:11,230.59183673 --> 00:03:20,920.16099773 And, how would you say, would a company go about, or a person, an entrepreneur, say Oh, I'm doing this business to be independent. 37 00:03:20,920.16099773 --> 00:03:32,438.98185941 How do you switch that mindset to realizing, oh, maybe it's not completely independent, but I need to be focused on like, how can I be interdependent on others as well. 38 00:03:32,550.25170068 --> 00:03:32,790.25170068 Yeah. 39 00:03:32,795.25170068 --> 00:03:35,242.58730159 I think the biggest shift is in mindset. 40 00:03:35,282.75736961 --> 00:03:37,652.75736961 There's a valid desire to want to be in. 41 00:03:38,466.09070295 --> 00:03:43,782.6893424 It is something that, if you look at kids they want to become more independent and teenagers even more so. 42 00:03:43,882.6893424 --> 00:03:44,722.6893424 and that's valid. 43 00:03:44,853.39229025 --> 00:03:45,556.27210884 That's fine. 44 00:03:45,566.27210884 --> 00:03:51,146.27210884 And I think that the problem is really that seeing it as a goal rather than a direction. 45 00:03:51,156.27210884 --> 00:03:52,776.27210884 So if it's a direction it. 46 00:03:52,786.27210884 --> 00:03:55,176.27210884 I want to take more of decisions myself. 47 00:03:55,181.27210884 --> 00:04:07,810.71428571 I wanna decide what to eat and you what kind of apartment to live in and what kind of job to do, for example, right? Rather than having the feeling that is dictated by circumstances or by someone. 48 00:04:08,140.71428571 --> 00:04:09,790.71428571 And the same is true for the business. 49 00:04:09,940.71428571 --> 00:04:13,10.71428571 If you have the feeling, Oh, I only have one choice, you're not gonna feel in. 50 00:04:13,537.38095238 --> 00:04:26,996.62131519 As a business owner, As an entrepreneur, if you make decisions, if you just notice that you have the choice, that already shifts your mindset into not feeling dependent, but feeling independent and free to a certain degree to do one thing rather than another. 51 00:04:27,1.62131519 --> 00:04:28,581.62131519 And there's always a choice. 52 00:04:28,581.62131519 --> 00:04:33,461.62131519 There's always a choice not to do it and do something entirely different or closing down the business. 53 00:04:33,471.62131519 --> 00:04:40,785.95238095 So it is not such a big change in the outside as more on the inside that we have to be aware of what is actually happening. 54 00:04:40,795.95238095 --> 00:04:41,635.95238095 Yeah, definitely. 55 00:04:41,635.95238095 --> 00:04:50,779.6031746 And I know That you mentioned Stephen Covey's book earlier about the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I've read that book and I think it's, it's a great book. 56 00:04:50,846.67800453 --> 00:05:00,720.861678 And one of the things that he mentions in there is two, is like thinking about cooperation and how much further you can really get when you cooperate versus. 57 00:05:01,204.19501134 --> 00:05:02,284.19501134 Being competitive. 58 00:05:02,403.26530612 --> 00:05:13,496.4739229 He tells lots of stories about how, sales organizations, where they transformed them from competing to actually working all together to reach a ultimate goal. 59 00:05:13,736.4739229 --> 00:05:18,736.45124717 And they just demolish any of the competition, setups and everything like that. 60 00:05:18,736.45124717 --> 00:05:21,951.54195011 How do you see that playing out in nature. 61 00:05:21,956.54195011 --> 00:05:23,541.54195011 Maybe we can connect something from there. 62 00:05:23,541.54195011 --> 00:05:29,374.87528345 And how do we see that playing out in business as well, besides the sales organization I just mentioned Yeah. 63 00:05:29,539.87528345 --> 00:05:30,339.87528345 It's very interesting. 64 00:05:30,339.87528345 --> 00:05:33,799.87528345 I actually had a conversation with the client of mine about that recently. 65 00:05:33,979.87528345 --> 00:05:37,704.87528345 And, I think Steven Covey uses that quote in the book too. 66 00:05:37,714.87528345 --> 00:05:39,604.87528345 If you wanna go fast, go alone. 67 00:05:39,604.87528345 --> 00:05:41,434.87528345 If you want to go far, go together. 68 00:05:41,444.87528345 --> 00:05:48,420.09070295 And it's so true because many of us who are competitive and who do things by themselves are like, I can achieve more doing that. 69 00:05:48,425.09070295 --> 00:05:51,465.09070295 And the response is, you're faster, but you cannot go further. 70 00:05:51,475.09070295 --> 00:05:53,935.09070295 So if you wanna go fast, go ahead. 71 00:05:54,205.09070295 --> 00:05:57,185.09070295 But if you wanna play the long game, you need to connect with others. 72 00:05:57,195.09070295 --> 00:06:07,975.23809524 So I think if we look at nature, you can see for example, that annual plants grow fast compared to perennials, but the day after a year or two and, the life cycle is just different. 73 00:06:08,10.62358277 --> 00:06:10,804.97732426 I was into growing when I started being a bit more. 74 00:06:10,824.82993197 --> 00:06:18,660.72562358 Well connected to our balcony, let's say I started off with succulents, also because of the climate and everything and they were super slow growing. 75 00:06:18,720.72562358 --> 00:06:24,115.3968254 And then I saw my neighbor and he grew two meter high tomato plants within a couple of months. 76 00:06:24,505.3968254 --> 00:06:28,926.17913832 And, my succulents would grow like this much but of course the lifespan is completely different. 77 00:06:28,936.17913832 --> 00:06:31,681.2244898 I think, we just need to know what we want. 78 00:06:31,681.2244898 --> 00:06:35,407.09750567 And when I talk with entrepreneurs, it's if you wanna go alone, that's fine. 79 00:06:35,412.09750567 --> 00:06:38,322.09750567 Just know that at some point you're gonna hit a ceiling. 80 00:06:38,332.09750567 --> 00:06:39,692.09750567 So keep that in mind. 81 00:06:39,752.09750567 --> 00:06:45,552.09750567 Keep in mind that at some point you probably need and want people to work with collaborator. 82 00:06:45,562.09750567 --> 00:06:46,423.50340136 Yeah definitely. 83 00:06:46,813.50340136 --> 00:06:54,319.96598639 And sometimes you're not even trying, It just ends up being that you start working together because it just, makes perfect sense. 84 00:06:54,343.50340136 --> 00:07:01,73.73015873 There's a whole study research on Different species and like the mutual relationships that they will have. 85 00:07:01,73.73015873 --> 00:07:04,913.73015873 And you'll see that a lot of times it's just like they start working together. 86 00:07:04,913.73015873 --> 00:07:09,832.58503401 Not because Oh, I'm trying to benefit the other species, or that species is trying to benefit me. 87 00:07:09,837.58503401 --> 00:07:11,481.29251701 It's more of, you have this. 88 00:07:11,551.29251701 --> 00:07:17,801.29251701 Relationship because of the whole fact that you have what I need, they have and you have what they need. 89 00:07:17,801.29251701 --> 00:07:23,246.29251701 And then it's just like you start doing things together because it just makes, perfect sense. 90 00:07:23,246.29251701 --> 00:07:25,471.29251701 Like you can't make it work any other way. 91 00:07:25,476.29251701 --> 00:07:26,951.29251701 So it's funny how that works out. 92 00:07:26,951.29251701 --> 00:07:31,411.6553288 You might find that in business too, where you're, going along you realize Hey, this. 93 00:07:31,416.6553288 --> 00:07:34,399.98866213 Competitor, we started working together boom. 94 00:07:34,399.98866213 --> 00:07:40,138.7414966 Or Hey, there's this perfect this other person over here, they're doing something in this industry that's completely different. 95 00:07:40,138.7414966 --> 00:07:43,328.7414966 But if you guys work together, you guys could go really far. 96 00:07:43,361.79138322 --> 00:07:43,751.79138322 Exactly. 97 00:07:43,751.79138322 --> 00:07:52,10.31746032 It's a very interesting way about that and I know you wrote an article about this online about efficiency and resiliency. 98 00:07:52,10.31746032 --> 00:07:58,9.43310658 So can we have both in business? Is that even possible? I'd love to dive more into that here. 99 00:07:58,81.50793651 --> 00:07:58,471.50793651 Yeah. 100 00:07:58,476.50793651 --> 00:08:02,975.2154195 It was really mind bending when I wrote that article because I had to deeply. 101 00:08:02,985.2154195 --> 00:08:07,660.2154195 Look into what both of those words mean and how I can understand them and apply them. 102 00:08:07,670.2154195 --> 00:08:11,900.2154195 When it comes to efficiency, let's just say we talk about resource and time efficiency. 103 00:08:11,960.2154195 --> 00:08:17,40.2154195 So using time and resources, other resources efficiently to get things done right. 104 00:08:17,70.87301587 --> 00:08:21,993.43537415 If we look at the short term, that is completely contrary to, what I call the second. 105 00:08:22,353.43537415 --> 00:08:30,533.43537415 Principle of nature, which is or the third, which is redundance, right? If you want to be efficient, you remove redundancies, you streamline everything. 106 00:08:30,543.43537415 --> 00:08:39,895.10204082 And in the short term, it is not really compatible with resilience because resilience stands on redundance. 107 00:08:39,905.10204082 --> 00:08:50,729.19501134 If we let go of the short term focus and look long term, then we see that efficiency means being effective, being efficient, and doing something over then longer term longer period of time. 108 00:08:50,739.19501134 --> 00:08:55,859.19501134 And because things are changing, change is the only constant there is because things are changing. 109 00:08:55,859.19501134 --> 00:08:58,672.52834467 We need redundance to do that efficiently. 110 00:08:58,912.52834467 --> 00:08:59,812.52834467 Some bundance. 111 00:08:59,822.52834467 --> 00:09:01,22.52834467 To be able to adapt. 112 00:09:01,52.52834467 --> 00:09:07,535.47619048 We have to have some creativity, some adaptability along the way because it's not the same thing we can do, a whole decade. 113 00:09:07,535.47619048 --> 00:09:09,185.47619048 We have to adapt all the time. 114 00:09:09,545.47619048 --> 00:09:12,138.36734694 The environment changes, the market changes, the customer change. 115 00:09:12,188.36734694 --> 00:09:21,698.36734694 So actually if we look at the longer term, maybe a decade or so, or even longer, then efficiency and resilience go hand in hand because we need resilience. 116 00:09:21,708.36734694 --> 00:09:25,418.70748299 To be efficient and we need some redundance to be efficient. 117 00:09:25,423.70748299 --> 00:09:31,131.14512472 But if we look, just look at, a year or a couple of months, then it looks like that the complete opposite. 118 00:09:31,136.14512472 --> 00:09:35,135.87301587 Yeah, definitely you have to, think of what term you're really trying to go after. 119 00:09:35,135.87301587 --> 00:09:43,155.89569161 Are you talking about short term, you talking about long term? And I think the efficiency and resiliency question really comes into play. 120 00:09:43,155.89569161 --> 00:09:51,45.89569161 Like right now, especially as we might be going into a recession here, or if we are in a recession or whatever, defines recession nowaday. 121 00:09:51,491.58730159 --> 00:09:53,4.1723356 But we like hitting that stage. 122 00:09:53,282.87981859 --> 00:10:08,376.82539682 A lot of businesses are thinking about, where's the market going? What's that gonna look like in the future? So really understanding okay, should we, start cutting things? Should we start cutting those redundant things? But are they really, redundant might be a really good question to ask. 123 00:10:08,376.82539682 --> 00:10:13,481.8707483 Is this a good redundancy or is this just a complete you? Redundancy. 124 00:10:13,689.69387755 --> 00:10:20,423.1292517 So the thing with redundancy is it's, it's a word that has this negative connotation usually for most people. 125 00:10:20,428.1292517 --> 00:10:21,241.29251701 Oh, it's redundant. 126 00:10:21,241.29251701 --> 00:10:21,651.26984127 We don't need it. 127 00:10:21,656.26984127 --> 00:10:22,736.26984127 It's not exactly that. 128 00:10:22,746.78004535 --> 00:10:27,976.78004535 It's just that in this moment it does not necessarily serve the biggest puppets. 129 00:10:27,981.78004535 --> 00:10:30,21.78004535 But because everything is changing, all the. 130 00:10:30,488.44671202 --> 00:10:33,608.44671202 It might be that we don't need it, but it still has a function. 131 00:10:33,618.44671202 --> 00:10:35,868.44671202 So I'll give you an example from my garden. 132 00:10:36,108.44671202 --> 00:10:37,553.44671202 Okay? I have, not right now. 133 00:10:37,553.44671202 --> 00:10:40,383.44671202 In spring I had peas and beans. 134 00:10:40,438.44671202 --> 00:10:49,318.44671202 They are both nitrogen fixers, so they take nitrogen out of the air, put it in the ground, which is a nutrient for the plants and microorganisms, et cetera. 135 00:10:49,328.44671202 --> 00:10:52,298.44671202 Because I have both and they grow in the same area. 136 00:10:52,448.44671202 --> 00:10:54,328.44671202 I could say that one of them is redundant. 137 00:10:54,668.44671202 --> 00:10:59,668.44671202 I don't need it, right? Because if it's gone, the other one still puts nitrogen into the ground, fine. 138 00:10:59,678.44671202 --> 00:11:10,969.12698413 But what if suddenly there's one week of really strong wind, really strong sun and no water, The peas, or maybe two weeks, the peas will probably. 139 00:11:11,484.51247165 --> 00:11:13,74.51247165 The beans will still be there. 140 00:11:13,84.51247165 --> 00:11:15,19.51247165 So I could have said the peas grow faster. 141 00:11:15,24.51247165 --> 00:11:16,189.51247165 Maybe I don't need the beans. 142 00:11:16,499.51247165 --> 00:11:20,988.93424036 I didn't know, but I could have, foreseen predicted that something might change. 143 00:11:21,34.14965986 --> 00:11:28,918.06122449 And that's why the redundance, the unnecessary redundant we could say in the end, saved me, saved my soil, save. 144 00:11:28,928.06122449 --> 00:11:31,298.06122449 The capacity of putting nutrients into the ground. 145 00:11:31,308.06122449 --> 00:11:38,298.06122449 So it's usually something that has a function, but we see it as well, We have a better way of doing that already. 146 00:11:38,298.06122449 --> 00:11:41,248.46938775 So we are using it, but we don't really need it. 147 00:11:41,274.10430839 --> 00:11:45,651.81405896 But then, what happens if, for example in business terms, I run a men's group. 148 00:11:45,661.81405896 --> 00:11:49,771.81405896 We have a Facebook group, we have an Instagram page, and we had a WhatsApp group. 149 00:11:49,781.81405896 --> 00:11:56,426.81405896 Now, all those three belong to the same corporation, so last week we actually switched the WhatsApp group to Telegram. 150 00:11:56,436.81405896 --> 00:12:04,361.79138322 There were several reasons, but one of them is also, who knows what would happen if it it matter, decide something changes, something blows up. 151 00:12:04,371.79138322 --> 00:12:05,421.79138322 We still have telegram. 152 00:12:05,426.79138322 --> 00:12:18,356.79138322 It's sometimes a bit hard to pinpoint it, but I think you can get the idea of having something that is serving a function but is not necessary because you have another way that you use more to serve that same function. 153 00:12:18,366.79138322 --> 00:12:19,356.79138322 Yeah, definitely. 154 00:12:19,446.79138322 --> 00:12:20,690.14739229 But it still can come up. 155 00:12:20,690.14739229 --> 00:12:26,464.76190476 It still can, in the future if something happens or if you were like, say you're putting all your money into. 156 00:12:26,474.76190476 --> 00:12:46,123.14058957 See what adds for YouTube, or you're doing all Facebook ads, like if something happens where the YouTube algorithm changes or the Facebook ad algorithm changes or whatever, and then you're suddenly your Facebook account gets blocked or, they ban you from accessing your account for whatever reason. 157 00:12:46,123.14058957 --> 00:12:50,293.14058957 I, it's happened to a lot of people before for various reasons. 158 00:12:50,543.14058957 --> 00:12:59,228.48072562 If that, Then it's okay, now your primary way of collecting leads and getting leads into your business is shut down. 159 00:12:59,498.48072562 --> 00:13:12,119.30839002 What is that gonna do to your business? So you really gotta consider okay,, it might be redundant to have something on Facebook and something on YouTube or something like that, or you're, distributing out to Google ads and things like that as well. 160 00:13:12,477.47165533 --> 00:13:17,38.29931973 But you also have to consider if something happens, to your account in that one area. 161 00:13:17,158.29931973 --> 00:13:25,987.84580499 Do you have some bit of redundancy so that you can still get leads into your business? Your business can still run? even if. 162 00:13:26,19.30839002 --> 00:13:31,29.30839002 That one stream of incoming leads just completely shuts down. 163 00:13:31,359.30839002 --> 00:13:33,309.01360544 So I think that's a really important thing as well. 164 00:13:33,309.01360544 --> 00:13:41,733.93424036 Like you were mentioning the piece, if the drought comes or the strong weather the Facebook ad drought comes you wanna be prepared for that. 165 00:13:41,763.93424036 --> 00:13:44,129.76190476 You wanna be prepared for something that could happen. 166 00:13:44,176.51927438 --> 00:13:45,21.75736961 If you have. 167 00:13:45,946.75736961 --> 00:13:47,626.75736961 Capacity and bandwidth in your business. 168 00:13:47,626.75736961 --> 00:13:48,76.75736961 Of course. 169 00:13:48,346.75736961 --> 00:13:50,446.75736961 So I wanna ask you a little bit about this. 170 00:13:50,458.04988662 --> 00:13:59,228.66213152 What if you're a small business, you're just starting out, you don't have the capacity for redundancy, you realize something is redundant in your business. 171 00:13:59,233.66213152 --> 00:14:05,305.6122449 What would you consider are like the choices that you should make in order to say Okay, we can cut this. 172 00:14:05,545.6122449 --> 00:14:06,895.6122449 We shouldn't cut this. 173 00:14:06,941.54195011 --> 00:14:08,591.54195011 So it might sound a. 174 00:14:08,601.54195011 --> 00:14:12,182.56235827 Contradictive, but I'm a fan of efficiency and streamlining things. 175 00:14:12,214.7845805 --> 00:14:22,938.88888889 I often ask myself, where do I get the majority of my business from? My money, from? Where do I spend the majority of my time? Is it that or is it something else? If it's something else, change it. 176 00:14:22,953.88888889 --> 00:14:25,543.88888889 I think it is, it's just bit by bit upleveling. 177 00:14:25,553.88888889 --> 00:14:31,798.88888889 So we have the 80 20 principle, 80% of the income comes from 20% of the time or activity. 178 00:14:31,808.88888889 --> 00:14:35,543.88888889 So when we look at, okay, this 20% of time, I wanna spend more on that. 179 00:14:35,553.88888889 --> 00:14:39,213.88888889 Okay, let me make it my 80% of time or 90% of time. 180 00:14:39,243.88888889 --> 00:14:39,513.88888889 Okay. 181 00:14:39,513.88888889 --> 00:14:44,313.88888889 And then within that, I look again and I look again and I look again and I just continue going up. 182 00:14:44,328.88888889 --> 00:14:47,238.88888889 And there will always be some variety and that is good. 183 00:14:47,248.88888889 --> 00:14:47,908.88888889 Yeah, definitely. 184 00:14:47,933.91156462 --> 00:14:50,499.92063492 I think that 80 20 rule is really that key. 185 00:14:50,499.92063492 --> 00:14:57,194.58049886 Being able to assess and determine, okay, if I am spending time in these redundant what. 186 00:14:57,204.58049886 --> 00:14:58,657.9138322 Appear to be redundant. 187 00:14:58,827.9138322 --> 00:15:06,978.14058957 Which one is taking more of my time? Which one is taking more of my resources? And really comparing the two of those because you only have a limited amount of time. 188 00:15:07,47.31292517 --> 00:15:11,117.31292517 Resources of availability may change in the future, may completely go away. 189 00:15:11,117.31292517 --> 00:15:15,973.45804988 You make it more so you, you have to really depend look into your time cuz that's always constant. 190 00:15:16,32.61904762 --> 00:15:17,562.61904762 And be able to use that. 191 00:15:17,567.93650793 --> 00:15:29,384.05895691 And it's important to, I said 80% or 90%, right? I didn't say a hundred percent because I think there's always something that is, that will not be directly money related, income related, but that is still important in the long run. 192 00:15:29,414.05895691 --> 00:15:34,304.03628118 So networking, for example I spend time networking and I don't get money for it. 193 00:15:34,309.03628118 --> 00:15:35,659.03628118 not directly at least. 194 00:15:35,664.03628118 --> 00:15:36,894.03628118 But it is something that. 195 00:15:36,904.03628118 --> 00:15:41,514.03628118 I look at and there as well, I decide which kind of networking brings me the most. 196 00:15:41,524.03628118 --> 00:15:42,724.03628118 However I define that. 197 00:15:42,994.03628118 --> 00:15:44,164.03628118 Okay, let me focus on that. 198 00:15:44,164.03628118 --> 00:15:52,659.03628118 That's probably 20% of the networking I do, that I get 80, 80% of the value, be it, connection level, emotionally, business opportunity somewhere in the future. 199 00:15:52,899.03628118 --> 00:15:54,734.03628118 I focus on that, right? Yeah, I. 200 00:15:54,744.03628118 --> 00:16:04,719.07029478 It is good to, to use, for example, the 80 20 principle to make decisions and then within the different areas that you engage in, that you use your time for, narrow down a little bit. 201 00:16:04,729.07029478 --> 00:16:05,720.47619047 Yeah definitely. 202 00:16:05,781.74603174 --> 00:16:20,257.98185941 I'd love to talk a little bit about your business emerged to Prosper and is the process of some of the things that we mentioned today about efficiency, resiliency really being able to talk about how we apply, principles of nature and apply that to business. 203 00:16:20,447.98185941 --> 00:16:27,792.98185941 Is that kind of what you take your clients through as you work with them? How does that kind of work for your business? Yeah, I do. 204 00:16:27,901.60997732 --> 00:16:35,781.59863945 So most of my clients are in some sort of a leadership position, be it in an organization, be it as an entrepreneur. 205 00:16:35,791.59863945 --> 00:16:38,741.59863945 And I help them make important decisions. 206 00:16:38,741.59863945 --> 00:16:40,301.5986395 I help them with. 207 00:16:40,311.5986395 --> 00:16:42,741.5986395 Achieving more balance in their life. 208 00:16:43,83.2539683 --> 00:16:46,713.2539683 Be it work life balance or some other kind of balance, more wellbeing. 209 00:16:46,785.3287982 --> 00:16:53,694.9206349 And, often it also has something to do with transitions, right? So I coach them to, use their own wisdom. 210 00:16:53,694.9206349 --> 00:16:57,73.6938775 The name Emerge to Prosper is not my business name for nothing. 211 00:16:57,143.3310658 --> 00:17:03,550.5759637 I believe that, the core of us has to emerge so that we can prosper, right? So that's what I support my clients in. 212 00:17:03,555.5759637 --> 00:17:08,68.9773243 And I do use the principles of nature in the conversations whenever it is fitting. 213 00:17:08,126.7777778 --> 00:17:10,412.9229025 For example, there's the principle. 214 00:17:10,417.9229025 --> 00:17:15,621.0294785 Cyclity, meaning that, we go through different seasons in life and in a year and in a day. 215 00:17:15,652.4807256 --> 00:17:19,477.4807256 And, that we can honor that most people don't honor it a lot. 216 00:17:19,482.4807256 --> 00:17:22,32.4807256 But we can, and it is good for us. 217 00:17:22,392.4807256 --> 00:17:27,217.4807256 It's actually, it's so interesting there are a bunch of studies on. 218 00:17:27,227.4807256 --> 00:17:31,669.1360544 The circadian rhythm, more or less 24 hour rhythm of like day and night. 219 00:17:31,723.7732426 --> 00:17:43,978.7732426 And there are different studies looking at different variables, health variables and whether people follow their natural cycle or don't doing shift work, for example, working nights or whatever it is. 220 00:17:43,988.7732426 --> 00:17:46,812.3560091 And consistently they show if you live. 221 00:17:46,884.4081633 --> 00:17:55,294.4081633 According to the rhythm, which from person to person might be a bit different, but generally it is being awake during the day, sleeping at night. 222 00:17:55,318.4557823 --> 00:18:02,425.1111111 And then, there are some more details, but in general, those that don't follow that are sick compared to the ones that follow. 223 00:18:02,435.1111111 --> 00:18:04,841.7777778 That's on physical level, that's on an emotional level. 224 00:18:04,841.7777778 --> 00:18:06,251.7777778 It's on an energy level. 225 00:18:06,261.7777778 --> 00:18:11,45.4852608 So it's super, super interesting to know that, it's not just something that, we observe. 226 00:18:11,45.4852608 --> 00:18:11,285.4852608 Okay. 227 00:18:11,285.4852608 --> 00:18:22,217.5827664 The seasons of the year and day and night, it is directly related, not just to how awake with you, but also to how healthy we are if we follow it, or if we rebel against. 228 00:18:22,517.5827664 --> 00:18:23,599.9637188 Yeah, Definitely. 229 00:18:23,646.7210884 --> 00:18:24,186.7210884 That's great. 230 00:18:24,231.3469388 --> 00:18:28,250.9501134 And I think the topic of circadian rhythms is so interesting. 231 00:18:28,348.569161 --> 00:18:33,638.1043084 How much our bodies really depend on that circadian rhythm and what you can use to. 232 00:18:33,708.1043084 --> 00:18:38,686.6417234 Trigger circadian rhythms and make sure that everything is in sync and going a long line. 233 00:18:38,686.6417234 --> 00:18:53,15.2244898 And, it it's super interesting cuz I, it also prepares the way, you act throughout the day because there's not only, your circadian rhythm of, the 24 hour, about 24 hour cycle, but there's also the intra radiant. 234 00:18:53,69.861678 --> 00:18:53,519.861678 Rhythms. 235 00:18:53,519.861678 --> 00:18:57,659.861678 So like those 90 minute cycles that we have through throughout the day. 236 00:18:57,909.861678 --> 00:19:04,609.952381 And then you have seasonal rhythms, for women you have the monthly cycle for men. 237 00:19:04,609.952381 --> 00:19:09,733.8185941 There's also a cycle as well that we go through in terms of month, in terms of seasons. 238 00:19:09,733.8185941 --> 00:19:11,543.2290249 So we think of ourselves as like very. 239 00:19:11,560.9614512 --> 00:19:15,400.6666667 Oh I'm this way and I've always been this way and I always will be this way. 240 00:19:15,760.6666667 --> 00:19:20,790.0997732 But it's like we go through rhythms even throughout the day, throughout our energy levels and all sorts of stuff. 241 00:19:20,795.0997732 --> 00:19:27,250.6893424 So it's always very interesting to try to tap into those things or understand what's going on with our body. 242 00:19:27,255.6893424 --> 00:19:33,955.6893424 To, like you said, be able to understand where we are so we can emerge, get that core part of ourselves so that we can prosper. 243 00:19:33,955.6893424 --> 00:19:36,49.6575964 And I think that's really huge. 244 00:19:36,116.7097506 --> 00:19:45,168.3310658 Just to add to that in large parts of the world where there are more differences between summer and winter, there is the seasonal effective disorder or winter. 245 00:19:45,820.38322 --> 00:19:56,499.1814059 People get depressed in winter, meaning people feel a lack of energy, a lack of motivation to do things and feel down and don't wanna leave the bed. 246 00:19:56,509.1814059 --> 00:20:00,159.1814059 Now, if we look at it evolutionarily, that makes total sense. 247 00:20:00,169.1814059 --> 00:20:03,619.1814059 There's no wonder, because there's nothing much to do in winter. 248 00:20:03,662.6848073 --> 00:20:05,282.1972789 The question is perhaps. 249 00:20:05,292.1972789 --> 00:20:18,617.5034014 Should we consider it a disorder or is it just normal? Are those people, perhaps even the ones that are more normal than the ones who don't feel it? Because, when we look at the seasons, it's like in the regions that have a stronger difference between winter and summer. 250 00:20:18,692.5034014 --> 00:20:22,984.8390023 It's in winter, you don't really do much in spring, life starts to emerge. 251 00:20:23,57.1292517 --> 00:20:27,227.1292517 You can start walking around, eat some leaves, but you don't really have fruit yet. 252 00:20:27,294.2040816 --> 00:20:32,396.8004535 You can, if you cultivate something, you can start cultivating in summer, things get right it's more work. 253 00:20:32,401.8004535 --> 00:20:36,70.8707483 Maybe, more collecting and fall than is enjoy. 254 00:20:36,142.9229025 --> 00:20:52,734.69161 What you have harvested and preparing for the winter, preparing the food to be stored for winter and then in winter is not doing much, just being there, moving a little bit, turning on a fire, eating something that you conserved, so most of us nowadays don't live like that, which is also good, I think. 255 00:20:52,784.69161 --> 00:20:55,274.69161 That season of cycle is still somewhere within us. 256 00:20:55,364.69161 --> 00:21:02,625.7120181 And maybe we don't have to do it exactly like we did during the majority of our lifetime as humans, but we can honor it a little bit more. 257 00:21:02,775.7120181 --> 00:21:06,318.0929705 We say, Okay, December, January, February, I will slow down a little bit. 258 00:21:06,323.0929705 --> 00:21:09,353.0929705 And then March, April, okay, now it's time for innovation. 259 00:21:09,353.0929705 --> 00:21:12,540.553288 Make things happen, start new things, have a new business idea. 260 00:21:12,870.553288 --> 00:21:14,610.553288 Summer is executing it and. 261 00:21:14,621.675737 --> 00:21:21,565.0544218 Autumn fall is, reviewing it, seeing how it's going still, receiving some of the goods that came from it and then, do it again. 262 00:21:21,565.0544218 --> 00:21:22,675.0544218 Yeah, for sure. 263 00:21:22,765.0544218 --> 00:21:25,767.4353741 Being able to honor that cycle is important. 264 00:21:25,772.4353741 --> 00:21:45,603.5238095 and you mentioned are they more normal Like when you talk about people with seasonal effective disorder, cuz disorders are all dependent on the society that you live in, right? So it's very social in terms of like psychotic disorders and things like that because of the fact that it is all defined by the social surrounding. 265 00:21:45,663.5238095 --> 00:21:52,317.6394558 And are you the crazy one or is everyone around you just crazy, right? So it is that like crazy argument there. 266 00:21:52,375.2018141 --> 00:21:57,657.1292517 So what is your goals for the next six months for your business personally. 267 00:21:57,662.1292517 --> 00:22:00,252.2199546 It's a great segue from what I just talked about. 268 00:22:00,257.2199546 --> 00:22:04,287.2426304 So I'm not gonna start anything very new now, these months. 269 00:22:04,342.2426304 --> 00:22:05,482.2426304 business is going well. 270 00:22:05,487.2426304 --> 00:22:08,187.2426304 I wanna do more of what I'm doing already. 271 00:22:08,467.877551 --> 00:22:10,297.877551 I have space for a couple more clients. 272 00:22:10,369.952381 --> 00:22:11,179.952381 I wanna. 273 00:22:11,234.952381 --> 00:22:13,960.1678005 Solidify some things that I'm doing. 274 00:22:14,200.1678005 --> 00:22:18,348.4897959 I wanna, keep in contact with business opportunities that I have. 275 00:22:18,348.4897959 --> 00:22:29,812.4580499 For example, the cause there to care, I partnered up with somebody and I think the fisher part of what he's doing with another partner of his is just taking so long, but, I want to keep on top of it. 276 00:22:29,822.4580499 --> 00:22:45,312.6054422 And then I think prepare already or, have my feelers out there for next year and see what's gonna happen because, now, knock on wood, with the winter coming in the Northern Hemisphere, There's not gonna be too much covid going on and restrictions going on. 277 00:22:45,317.6054422 --> 00:22:50,567.6054422 I would really like to see more traveling next year, more offline events next year. 278 00:22:50,572.6054422 --> 00:22:56,760.0884354 Yeah, my first offline event was this summer in July when I spent three weeks in pto. 279 00:22:56,850.0884354 --> 00:22:57,510.0884354 That was great. 280 00:22:57,510.0884354 --> 00:23:01,825.723356 So something like that, working with accelerators giving workshops. 281 00:23:01,894.8730159 --> 00:23:03,489.8730159 And just more of the same. 282 00:23:03,489.8730159 --> 00:23:03,879.8730159 Really. 283 00:23:03,889.8730159 --> 00:23:04,379.8730159 Good. 284 00:23:04,379.8730159 --> 00:23:08,522.1836735 When you've got a system that works, you just kind keep going and keep doing it so that's great. 285 00:23:08,527.1836735 --> 00:23:11,829.4399093 And I like to ask as well, what are you currently learning right now? Yeah. 286 00:23:11,839.4399093 --> 00:23:12,389.4399093 I am. 287 00:23:12,399.4399093 --> 00:23:16,969.4399093 Learning and relearning and reinforcing quality over quantity. 288 00:23:16,974.4399093 --> 00:23:28,689.8253968 When it comes to relationships especially that's what I'm learning right now and learning about actually connects to my first point, learning about, dependence and interdependence in relationships. 289 00:23:28,744.8253968 --> 00:23:43,76.4920635 On a very personal level, so noticing, okay, when I'm too dependent on another person, what I want to do is actually take initiative if possible, or do together to get out of that and become a bit more dependen. 290 00:23:43,186.4920635 --> 00:23:55,701.4920635 Not disconnected, but independent to then be able to more intentionally and more from the heart, choose each other's company rather than it's comfortable, it's working. 291 00:23:55,731.4920635 --> 00:23:56,661.4920635 Okay, let's do this. 292 00:23:56,661.4920635 --> 00:23:59,306.3673469 No that's not how I want my relationships to look like. 293 00:23:59,378.4195011 --> 00:24:02,378.4195011 I want it to be intentional and I want it to be from the heart. 294 00:24:02,558.4195011 --> 00:24:03,798.4195011 So that's where I'm going. 295 00:24:03,803.4195011 --> 00:24:04,373.4195011 That's good. 296 00:24:04,373.4195011 --> 00:24:04,793.4195011 That's good. 297 00:24:04,793.4195011 --> 00:24:05,423.4195011 I like that. 298 00:24:05,492.8526077 --> 00:24:08,882.8526077 Being really intentional with your actions, which is really good. 299 00:24:08,987.8526077 --> 00:24:18,645.6984127 And what is one takeaway that you could hope somebody who's listening to this interview, what is one thing that you hope they take away from listening to this? I think That's a great book, actually. 300 00:24:18,645.6984127 --> 00:24:19,215.6984127 Have it here. 301 00:24:19,225.6984127 --> 00:24:35,465.6984127 It's called The Illusion of Separation by Jill Hutchins, and what he writes is that his opinion is that, or his conclusion of this analysis is that the problems we have today in society come because we perceive a separation that is actually an illusion. 302 00:24:35,705.6984127 --> 00:24:36,695.6984127 There is no separat. 303 00:24:36,705.6984127 --> 00:24:43,30.6984127 The separation he's talking about is mostly, we humans being separated from the rest of nature, from the other animals. 304 00:24:43,40.6984127 --> 00:24:43,760.6984127 It's not true. 305 00:24:43,770.6984127 --> 00:24:45,172.3764172 So we are part of it. 306 00:24:45,262.3764172 --> 00:24:52,9.4739229 We're part of a giant web of interconnections and, there are repercussions everywhere all the time. 307 00:24:52,19.4739229 --> 00:25:06,44.4739229 And if we tune into that, Which means living also or paying attention also to outside of everything that we humans have created ourselves, meaning nature, the rest of nature the rest of all the other animals. 308 00:25:06,99.4739229 --> 00:25:15,380.1428571 If we tune into that and learn from and with that, we can actually heal ourselves and contribute more positively to the development of. 309 00:25:15,385.1428571 --> 00:25:19,625.1428571 There's often this very masculine feeling of, but I wanna be in control. 310 00:25:19,835.1428571 --> 00:25:24,610.1428571 And I think as societies we have to see, okay, there's space and time for that. 311 00:25:24,610.1428571 --> 00:25:31,729.1904762 But then also there's space and time to listen and absorb and see and be agile and go with the flow of the seasons, for example. 312 00:25:31,729.1904762 --> 00:25:33,319.1904762 And learn from and with. 313 00:25:33,329.1904762 --> 00:25:34,49.1904762 Yeah, definitely. 314 00:25:34,49.1904762 --> 00:25:53,290.4943311 And I think that's coming into play with so many different areas of business and of industry is just realizing how much we really need to understand, how we can work with nature in the natural way of things versus just trying to control it and go, and try to make it do what we want it to do. 315 00:25:53,300.4943311 --> 00:26:12,579.4852608 and it's like realizing that when you start understanding The way things are supposed to be or used to be and the way things have grown in that way, and you start using that to your advantage, you can make such bigger progress than you ever could if you just try to control it and constrict it and make it do what you want it to do. 316 00:26:12,969.4852608 --> 00:26:19,414.0544218 Just like in, Big one that comes up for me is like agriculture with the new movement for regenerative farming. 317 00:26:19,744.0544218 --> 00:26:34,23.1814059 Being able to look at like understanding, the soil and understanding, the relationship between the different crops that you have and being able to distribute into multi, crop, fields and being able to, use that to your advantage. 318 00:26:34,43.6122449 --> 00:26:51,457.1156463 It has been completely transformational for the farming industry and will continue to just completely transform because instead of just bombarding the crops with different pesticides and herbicides and all this stuff that it just ended up create even more problems than it fixed. 319 00:26:51,467.1156463 --> 00:27:00,561.968254 We're realizing that, hey, maybe if we diversify our fields a little bit, maybe if we, try to, stop tilling the soil every single year. 320 00:27:00,592.9659864 --> 00:27:06,77.1836735 Maybe if we, plant something in between in the off season so that all the dirt doesn't run away. 321 00:27:06,77.1836735 --> 00:27:11,387.1836735 Like we're learning all of these new things about just understanding how connected we are. 322 00:27:11,727.1836735 --> 00:27:22,393.3061225 To the, natural way of things and that we really just need to go back to that and understand how we can leverage those pieces of it to really go forward. 323 00:27:22,558.3061225 --> 00:27:22,858.3061225 Yeah. 324 00:27:22,888.3061225 --> 00:27:24,585.4263039 I'm so passionate about that too. 325 00:27:24,683.0113379 --> 00:27:30,594.5646259 We live in an area where, I can walk 10 minutes and I'm in the middle of farms and they don't look good. 326 00:27:30,883.9297052 --> 00:27:32,617.6371882 Every time I'm there I'm like, damn. 327 00:27:32,627.6371882 --> 00:27:37,695.5510204 So that Barron large part of the year, and if not, there's a single crop growing. 328 00:27:37,695.5510204 --> 00:27:43,66.9909297 There has to be irrigated because there's a lot of sun, there's some wind that's right at the coast. 329 00:27:43,76.9909297 --> 00:27:47,211.9909297 And what I've actually observed is that there is no lack of water. 330 00:27:47,581.6961451 --> 00:27:50,101.6961451 We live in a dry area, but there is no lack of water. 331 00:27:50,341.6961451 --> 00:27:50,761.6961451 They need to. 332 00:27:51,503.0453515 --> 00:27:53,992.3786848 because they interfered with the way how it is naturally. 333 00:27:54,2.3786848 --> 00:27:57,287.3786848 Because, I went on the street just a couple kilometers from here on the right. 334 00:27:57,297.3786848 --> 00:28:03,697.2426304 Orange groves, every tree, a tree every three or four meters, they all need to be drip irrigated. 335 00:28:03,707.2426304 --> 00:28:06,347.2426304 At least it's drip irrigation, but it's still irrigation. 336 00:28:06,497.2426304 --> 00:28:08,487.2426304 They need at least two liters per day. 337 00:28:08,492.2426304 --> 00:28:10,656.9478458 And the monthly rainfall on average, Minimal. 338 00:28:10,701.9478458 --> 00:28:18,61.9478458 And then I look on the other side of the road and it's bushes and shrubs and herbs, two meters high, zero irrigation. 339 00:28:18,66.9478458 --> 00:28:19,176.9478458 Life is there. 340 00:28:19,236.9478458 --> 00:28:21,366.9478458 Life has a way to express itself here. 341 00:28:21,636.9478458 --> 00:28:29,81.9478458 It's not the orange trees, it's not them singled out without anything around it, but there is life and there's more, biodiversity. 342 00:28:29,81.9478458 --> 00:28:30,916.9478458 There are more animals and it. 343 00:28:30,961.9478458 --> 00:28:31,741.9478458 It is possible. 344 00:28:31,741.9478458 --> 00:28:37,941.9478458 We just have to live more aligned with nature and with the possibilities that we have in the context that we live in. 345 00:28:37,951.9478458 --> 00:28:38,701.9478458 Yeah, definitely. 346 00:28:38,701.9478458 --> 00:28:42,652.5487528 And realizing how, important that is, is a key thing. 347 00:28:42,652.5487528 --> 00:28:45,270.0544218 And I think we're getting back there for a lot of different things. 348 00:28:45,343.659864 --> 00:28:46,283.6825397 It takes time. 349 00:28:46,288.6825397 --> 00:28:50,158.6825397 of course, just like anything, but I think we're, I think we're getting back there, which is really good. 350 00:28:50,168.6825397 --> 00:28:52,868.6825397 Now, just to finish up here with the last question. 351 00:28:52,868.6825397 --> 00:29:04,467.3900227 If anybody wants to reach out to you, learn more about your coaching business, learn more about what you're doing with the accelerators and all sorts of other things, how can they best reach out to you? So There are basically two things. 352 00:29:04,517.3900227 --> 00:29:10,787.2539683 It's my website to get to know a bit more about me and my coaching, what I offer and the courses I do. 353 00:29:10,792.2539683 --> 00:29:18,259.600907 And then if it's more on an inspirational level every now and then come connect with me on LinkedIn, read my content, read the things I write and interact. 354 00:29:18,264.600907 --> 00:29:23,479.600907 If you have anything to share, if you have any questions, then I'm happy to have quality interactions, as I said. 355 00:29:23,489.600907 --> 00:29:24,29.600907 Awesome. 356 00:29:24,89.600907 --> 00:29:25,199.600907 Yes, definitely. 357 00:29:25,439.600907 --> 00:29:31,427.2086168 And what's your website for everybody listening here? So it's emerge to prosper.com 358 00:29:31,437.2086168 --> 00:29:31,637.2086168 altogether. 359 00:29:31,637.2086168 --> 00:29:31,957.2086168 Perfect. 360 00:29:31,967.2086168 --> 00:29:32,417.2086168 Perfect. 361 00:29:32,427.2086168 --> 00:29:32,997.2086168 Awesome. 362 00:29:33,57.2086168 --> 00:29:35,821.8344671 Jorim, thank you so much for joining us on this show. 363 00:29:35,821.8344671 --> 00:29:48,658.0022676 It's been really awesome having you on talking all about this connection between nature and using those features of nature to understand business and applying them both ways and a great conversation. 364 00:29:48,688.0022676 --> 00:29:53,78.0022676 And I'm sure that everyone listening today definitely got a lot out of our conversation. 365 00:29:53,78.0022676 --> 00:29:56,678.0022676 So thank you so much for joining the show and I hope to have you back on. 366 00:29:56,688.0022676 --> 00:29:57,678.0022676 Yeah, thank you too. 367 00:29:57,738.0022676 --> 00:29:58,398.0022676 Would be great. 368 00:29:58,403.0022676 --> 00:30:09,743.0022676 And if you enjoyed this interview with Dream and how to reconnect with nature and use nature's principles and apply them to business, then I invite you to check out his online courses linked in the description below. 369 00:30:09,803.0022676 --> 00:30:19,603.0022676 They're the perfect way for you to enhance your leadership skills and connect back to nature to provide you a way to reach your goals in 2020.
As we look to explore the answer to this question and so many more during this amazing interview. 3 00:00:49,750.612244898 --> 00:00:50,110.612244898 all right. 4 00:00:50,120.612244898 --> 00:00:53,150.612244898 I'm very excited to have Jorim here on the call today. 5 00:00:53,150.612244898 --> 00:01:03,760.612244898 He's gonna be talking to us about how we can use aspects of nature and apply them to business and how we can investigate planetary health and apply those principles to business as well. 6 00:01:03,770.612244898 --> 00:01:07,500.612244898 But how we can also use business to boost our planet's health. 7 00:01:07,680.612244898 --> 00:01:08,280.612244898 All together. 8 00:01:08,280.612244898 --> 00:01:19,311.12244898 So Jorim, let's zoom out together and start us off with, one principle of nature and how it applies to business, and then we can explore others throughout our talk today. 9 00:01:19,366.12244898 --> 00:01:23,666.12244898 I'm really happy to be here and I'm always happy to talk about these topics too. 10 00:01:23,816.12244898 --> 00:01:28,956.12244898 So I think the most important principle of nature is interdependence. 11 00:01:28,961.12244898 --> 00:01:29,711.12244898 So that means. 12 00:01:29,721.12244898 --> 00:01:34,86.12244898 We depend on each other and, not just on other people, but also on nature. 13 00:01:34,266.12244898 --> 00:01:36,486.12244898 And nature also depends on us to a degree. 14 00:01:36,496.12244898 --> 00:01:40,461.12244898 And I think in business and in personal life, sometimes that is forgotten. 15 00:01:40,761.12244898 --> 00:01:46,451.12244898 Steven Coby wrote about it in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People that many people strive to be in. 16 00:01:46,461.12244898 --> 00:01:47,901.12244898 I wanna be independent. 17 00:01:47,901.12244898 --> 00:01:50,193.39002268 I want to, decide myself what I can do. 18 00:01:50,204.53514739 --> 00:01:56,869.21768707 And the direction is good, but you cannot achieve independence because, if you live in a society, you need money. 19 00:01:56,874.21768707 --> 00:02:00,219.21768707 Where does that money come from? It is somebody that is coming from. 20 00:02:00,229.21768707 --> 00:02:02,589.21768707 So you are always dependence. 21 00:02:02,644.21768707 --> 00:02:02,914.21768707 Okay. 22 00:02:02,914.21768707 --> 00:02:04,734.21768707 You're always dependent on somebody. 23 00:02:04,744.21768707 --> 00:02:21,19.21768707 So what he said is, it is good to strive for a certain level of independence, but knowing that it's not possible to actually achieve it and rather focus on choosing interdependence, meaning giving and taking, and, not doing that from a sense of need. 24 00:02:21,29.21768707 --> 00:02:22,799.21768707 If you're dependent, you're needing it. 25 00:02:22,809.21768707 --> 00:02:27,114.3877551 But if you're acting from a state of interdependence, it's like I'm choosing to interact with you. 26 00:02:27,114.3877551 --> 00:02:28,663.90022676 I'm choosing to do business with you. 27 00:02:28,963.90022676 --> 00:02:32,383.90022676 I'm choosing to have you as my client, I'm choosing to offer this. 28 00:02:32,398.90022676 --> 00:02:38,783.90022676 Which is, on a spiritual level, of course, something completely different, but also on a psychological level, something completely. 29 00:02:39,287.23356009 --> 00:02:40,37.23356009 Yeah, definitely. 30 00:02:40,37.23356009 --> 00:02:45,213.01814059 And think that brings up a really valid point and you mentioned that nature is interdependent on. 31 00:02:45,223.01814059 --> 00:02:51,873.59637188 Other, species in the environment they're interdependent on, we are interdependent on nature in so many aspects. 32 00:02:51,931.32879819 --> 00:02:58,351.32879819 We wouldn't be able to provide ourselves with food, with nutrients, with our nutrition without nature. 33 00:02:58,379.37868481 --> 00:03:00,75.3537415 That'd be completely impossible. 34 00:03:00,75.3537415 --> 00:03:04,895.98866213 So being able to, realize that you are interdependent with other. 35 00:03:04,905.98866213 --> 00:03:10,840.59183673 People with the environment, with realizing, how much we really depend on other things is really important. 36 00:03:11,230.59183673 --> 00:03:20,920.16099773 And, how would you say, would a company go about, or a person, an entrepreneur, say Oh, I'm doing this business to be independent. 37 00:03:20,920.16099773 --> 00:03:32,438.98185941 How do you switch that mindset to realizing, oh, maybe it's not completely independent, but I need to be focused on like, how can I be interdependent on others as well. 38 00:03:32,550.25170068 --> 00:03:32,790.25170068 Yeah. 39 00:03:32,795.25170068 --> 00:03:35,242.58730159 I think the biggest shift is in mindset. 40 00:03:35,282.75736961 --> 00:03:37,652.75736961 There's a valid desire to want to be in. 41 00:03:38,466.09070295 --> 00:03:43,782.6893424 It is something that, if you look at kids they want to become more independent and teenagers even more so. 42 00:03:43,882.6893424 --> 00:03:44,722.6893424 and that's valid. 43 00:03:44,853.39229025 --> 00:03:45,556.27210884 That's fine. 44 00:03:45,566.27210884 --> 00:03:51,146.27210884 And I think that the problem is really that seeing it as a goal rather than a direction. 45 00:03:51,156.27210884 --> 00:03:52,776.27210884 So if it's a direction it. 46 00:03:52,786.27210884 --> 00:03:55,176.27210884 I want to take more of decisions myself. 47 00:03:55,181.27210884 --> 00:04:07,810.71428571 I wanna decide what to eat and you what kind of apartment to live in and what kind of job to do, for example, right? Rather than having the feeling that is dictated by circumstances or by someone. 48 00:04:08,140.71428571 --> 00:04:09,790.71428571 And the same is true for the business. 49 00:04:09,940.71428571 --> 00:04:13,10.71428571 If you have the feeling, Oh, I only have one choice, you're not gonna feel in. 50 00:04:13,537.38095238 --> 00:04:26,996.62131519 As a business owner, As an entrepreneur, if you make decisions, if you just notice that you have the choice, that already shifts your mindset into not feeling dependent, but feeling independent and free to a certain degree to do one thing rather than another. 51 00:04:27,1.62131519 --> 00:04:28,581.62131519 And there's always a choice. 52 00:04:28,581.62131519 --> 00:04:33,461.62131519 There's always a choice not to do it and do something entirely different or closing down the business. 53 00:04:33,471.62131519 --> 00:04:40,785.95238095 So it is not such a big change in the outside as more on the inside that we have to be aware of what is actually happening. 54 00:04:40,795.95238095 --> 00:04:41,635.95238095 Yeah, definitely. 55 00:04:41,635.95238095 --> 00:04:50,779.6031746 And I know That you mentioned Stephen Covey's book earlier about the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and I've read that book and I think it's, it's a great book. 56 00:04:50,846.67800453 --> 00:05:00,720.861678 And one of the things that he mentions in there is two, is like thinking about cooperation and how much further you can really get when you cooperate versus. 57 00:05:01,204.19501134 --> 00:05:02,284.19501134 Being competitive. 58 00:05:02,403.26530612 --> 00:05:13,496.4739229 He tells lots of stories about how, sales organizations, where they transformed them from competing to actually working all together to reach a ultimate goal. 59 00:05:13,736.4739229 --> 00:05:18,736.45124717 And they just demolish any of the competition, setups and everything like that. 60 00:05:18,736.45124717 --> 00:05:21,951.54195011 How do you see that playing out in nature. 61 00:05:21,956.54195011 --> 00:05:23,541.54195011 Maybe we can connect something from there. 62 00:05:23,541.54195011 --> 00:05:29,374.87528345 And how do we see that playing out in business as well, besides the sales organization I just mentioned Yeah. 63 00:05:29,539.87528345 --> 00:05:30,339.87528345 It's very interesting. 64 00:05:30,339.87528345 --> 00:05:33,799.87528345 I actually had a conversation with the client of mine about that recently. 65 00:05:33,979.87528345 --> 00:05:37,704.87528345 And, I think Steven Covey uses that quote in the book too. 66 00:05:37,714.87528345 --> 00:05:39,604.87528345 If you wanna go fast, go alone. 67 00:05:39,604.87528345 --> 00:05:41,434.87528345 If you want to go far, go together. 68 00:05:41,444.87528345 --> 00:05:48,420.09070295 And it's so true because many of us who are competitive and who do things by themselves are like, I can achieve more doing that. 69 00:05:48,425.09070295 --> 00:05:51,465.09070295 And the response is, you're faster, but you cannot go further. 70 00:05:51,475.09070295 --> 00:05:53,935.09070295 So if you wanna go fast, go ahead. 71 00:05:54,205.09070295 --> 00:05:57,185.09070295 But if you wanna play the long game, you need to connect with others. 72 00:05:57,195.09070295 --> 00:06:07,975.23809524 So I think if we look at nature, you can see for example, that annual plants grow fast compared to perennials, but the day after a year or two and, the life cycle is just different. 73 00:06:08,10.62358277 --> 00:06:10,804.97732426 I was into growing when I started being a bit more. 74 00:06:10,824.82993197 --> 00:06:18,660.72562358 Well connected to our balcony, let's say I started off with succulents, also because of the climate and everything and they were super slow growing. 75 00:06:18,720.72562358 --> 00:06:24,115.3968254 And then I saw my neighbor and he grew two meter high tomato plants within a couple of months. 76 00:06:24,505.3968254 --> 00:06:28,926.17913832 And, my succulents would grow like this much but of course the lifespan is completely different. 77 00:06:28,936.17913832 --> 00:06:31,681.2244898 I think, we just need to know what we want. 78 00:06:31,681.2244898 --> 00:06:35,407.09750567 And when I talk with entrepreneurs, it's if you wanna go alone, that's fine. 79 00:06:35,412.09750567 --> 00:06:38,322.09750567 Just know that at some point you're gonna hit a ceiling. 80 00:06:38,332.09750567 --> 00:06:39,692.09750567 So keep that in mind. 81 00:06:39,752.09750567 --> 00:06:45,552.09750567 Keep in mind that at some point you probably need and want people to work with collaborator. 82 00:06:45,562.09750567 --> 00:06:46,423.50340136 Yeah definitely. 83 00:06:46,813.50340136 --> 00:06:54,319.96598639 And sometimes you're not even trying, It just ends up being that you start working together because it just, makes perfect sense. 84 00:06:54,343.50340136 --> 00:07:01,73.73015873 There's a whole study research on Different species and like the mutual relationships that they will have. 85 00:07:01,73.73015873 --> 00:07:04,913.73015873 And you'll see that a lot of times it's just like they start working together. 86 00:07:04,913.73015873 --> 00:07:09,832.58503401 Not because Oh, I'm trying to benefit the other species, or that species is trying to benefit me. 87 00:07:09,837.58503401 --> 00:07:11,481.29251701 It's more of, you have this. 88 00:07:11,551.29251701 --> 00:07:17,801.29251701 Relationship because of the whole fact that you have what I need, they have and you have what they need. 89 00:07:17,801.29251701 --> 00:07:23,246.29251701 And then it's just like you start doing things together because it just makes, perfect sense. 90 00:07:23,246.29251701 --> 00:07:25,471.29251701 Like you can't make it work any other way. 91 00:07:25,476.29251701 --> 00:07:26,951.29251701 So it's funny how that works out. 92 00:07:26,951.29251701 --> 00:07:31,411.6553288 You might find that in business too, where you're, going along you realize Hey, this. 93 00:07:31,416.6553288 --> 00:07:34,399.98866213 Competitor, we started working together boom. 94 00:07:34,399.98866213 --> 00:07:40,138.7414966 Or Hey, there's this perfect this other person over here, they're doing something in this industry that's completely different. 95 00:07:40,138.7414966 --> 00:07:43,328.7414966 But if you guys work together, you guys could go really far. 96 00:07:43,361.79138322 --> 00:07:43,751.79138322 Exactly. 97 00:07:43,751.79138322 --> 00:07:52,10.31746032 It's a very interesting way about that and I know you wrote an article about this online about efficiency and resiliency. 98 00:07:52,10.31746032 --> 00:07:58,9.43310658 So can we have both in business? Is that even possible? I'd love to dive more into that here. 99 00:07:58,81.50793651 --> 00:07:58,471.50793651 Yeah. 100 00:07:58,476.50793651 --> 00:08:02,975.2154195 It was really mind bending when I wrote that article because I had to deeply. 101 00:08:02,985.2154195 --> 00:08:07,660.2154195 Look into what both of those words mean and how I can understand them and apply them. 102 00:08:07,670.2154195 --> 00:08:11,900.2154195 When it comes to efficiency, let's just say we talk about resource and time efficiency. 103 00:08:11,960.2154195 --> 00:08:17,40.2154195 So using time and resources, other resources efficiently to get things done right. 104 00:08:17,70.87301587 --> 00:08:21,993.43537415 If we look at the short term, that is completely contrary to, what I call the second. 105 00:08:22,353.43537415 --> 00:08:30,533.43537415 Principle of nature, which is or the third, which is redundance, right? If you want to be efficient, you remove redundancies, you streamline everything. 106 00:08:30,543.43537415 --> 00:08:39,895.10204082 And in the short term, it is not really compatible with resilience because resilience stands on redundance. 107 00:08:39,905.10204082 --> 00:08:50,729.19501134 If we let go of the short term focus and look long term, then we see that efficiency means being effective, being efficient, and doing something over then longer term longer period of time. 108 00:08:50,739.19501134 --> 00:08:55,859.19501134 And because things are changing, change is the only constant there is because things are changing. 109 00:08:55,859.19501134 --> 00:08:58,672.52834467 We need redundance to do that efficiently. 110 00:08:58,912.52834467 --> 00:08:59,812.52834467 Some bundance. 111 00:08:59,822.52834467 --> 00:09:01,22.52834467 To be able to adapt. 112 00:09:01,52.52834467 --> 00:09:07,535.47619048 We have to have some creativity, some adaptability along the way because it's not the same thing we can do, a whole decade. 113 00:09:07,535.47619048 --> 00:09:09,185.47619048 We have to adapt all the time. 114 00:09:09,545.47619048 --> 00:09:12,138.36734694 The environment changes, the market changes, the customer change. 115 00:09:12,188.36734694 --> 00:09:21,698.36734694 So actually if we look at the longer term, maybe a decade or so, or even longer, then efficiency and resilience go hand in hand because we need resilience. 116 00:09:21,708.36734694 --> 00:09:25,418.70748299 To be efficient and we need some redundance to be efficient. 117 00:09:25,423.70748299 --> 00:09:31,131.14512472 But if we look, just look at, a year or a couple of months, then it looks like that the complete opposite. 118 00:09:31,136.14512472 --> 00:09:35,135.87301587 Yeah, definitely you have to, think of what term you're really trying to go after. 119 00:09:35,135.87301587 --> 00:09:43,155.89569161 Are you talking about short term, you talking about long term? And I think the efficiency and resiliency question really comes into play. 120 00:09:43,155.89569161 --> 00:09:51,45.89569161 Like right now, especially as we might be going into a recession here, or if we are in a recession or whatever, defines recession nowaday. 121 00:09:51,491.58730159 --> 00:09:53,4.1723356 But we like hitting that stage. 122 00:09:53,282.87981859 --> 00:10:08,376.82539682 A lot of businesses are thinking about, where's the market going? What's that gonna look like in the future? So really understanding okay, should we, start cutting things? Should we start cutting those redundant things? But are they really, redundant might be a really good question to ask. 123 00:10:08,376.82539682 --> 00:10:13,481.8707483 Is this a good redundancy or is this just a complete you? Redundancy. 124 00:10:13,689.69387755 --> 00:10:20,423.1292517 So the thing with redundancy is it's, it's a word that has this negative connotation usually for most people. 125 00:10:20,428.1292517 --> 00:10:21,241.29251701 Oh, it's redundant. 126 00:10:21,241.29251701 --> 00:10:21,651.26984127 We don't need it. 127 00:10:21,656.26984127 --> 00:10:22,736.26984127 It's not exactly that. 128 00:10:22,746.78004535 --> 00:10:27,976.78004535 It's just that in this moment it does not necessarily serve the biggest puppets. 129 00:10:27,981.78004535 --> 00:10:30,21.78004535 But because everything is changing, all the. 130 00:10:30,488.44671202 --> 00:10:33,608.44671202 It might be that we don't need it, but it still has a function. 131 00:10:33,618.44671202 --> 00:10:35,868.44671202 So I'll give you an example from my garden. 132 00:10:36,108.44671202 --> 00:10:37,553.44671202 Okay? I have, not right now. 133 00:10:37,553.44671202 --> 00:10:40,383.44671202 In spring I had peas and beans. 134 00:10:40,438.44671202 --> 00:10:49,318.44671202 They are both nitrogen fixers, so they take nitrogen out of the air, put it in the ground, which is a nutrient for the plants and microorganisms, et cetera. 135 00:10:49,328.44671202 --> 00:10:52,298.44671202 Because I have both and they grow in the same area. 136 00:10:52,448.44671202 --> 00:10:54,328.44671202 I could say that one of them is redundant. 137 00:10:54,668.44671202 --> 00:10:59,668.44671202 I don't need it, right? Because if it's gone, the other one still puts nitrogen into the ground, fine. 138 00:10:59,678.44671202 --> 00:11:10,969.12698413 But what if suddenly there's one week of really strong wind, really strong sun and no water, The peas, or maybe two weeks, the peas will probably. 139 00:11:11,484.51247165 --> 00:11:13,74.51247165 The beans will still be there. 140 00:11:13,84.51247165 --> 00:11:15,19.51247165 So I could have said the peas grow faster. 141 00:11:15,24.51247165 --> 00:11:16,189.51247165 Maybe I don't need the beans. 142 00:11:16,499.51247165 --> 00:11:20,988.93424036 I didn't know, but I could have, foreseen predicted that something might change. 143 00:11:21,34.14965986 --> 00:11:28,918.06122449 And that's why the redundance, the unnecessary redundant we could say in the end, saved me, saved my soil, save. 144 00:11:28,928.06122449 --> 00:11:31,298.06122449 The capacity of putting nutrients into the ground. 145 00:11:31,308.06122449 --> 00:11:38,298.06122449 So it's usually something that has a function, but we see it as well, We have a better way of doing that already. 146 00:11:38,298.06122449 --> 00:11:41,248.46938775 So we are using it, but we don't really need it. 147 00:11:41,274.10430839 --> 00:11:45,651.81405896 But then, what happens if, for example in business terms, I run a men's group. 148 00:11:45,661.81405896 --> 00:11:49,771.81405896 We have a Facebook group, we have an Instagram page, and we had a WhatsApp group. 149 00:11:49,781.81405896 --> 00:11:56,426.81405896 Now, all those three belong to the same corporation, so last week we actually switched the WhatsApp group to Telegram. 150 00:11:56,436.81405896 --> 00:12:04,361.79138322 There were several reasons, but one of them is also, who knows what would happen if it it matter, decide something changes, something blows up. 151 00:12:04,371.79138322 --> 00:12:05,421.79138322 We still have telegram. 152 00:12:05,426.79138322 --> 00:12:18,356.79138322 It's sometimes a bit hard to pinpoint it, but I think you can get the idea of having something that is serving a function but is not necessary because you have another way that you use more to serve that same function. 153 00:12:18,366.79138322 --> 00:12:19,356.79138322 Yeah, definitely. 154 00:12:19,446.79138322 --> 00:12:20,690.14739229 But it still can come up. 155 00:12:20,690.14739229 --> 00:12:26,464.76190476 It still can, in the future if something happens or if you were like, say you're putting all your money into. 156 00:12:26,474.76190476 --> 00:12:46,123.14058957 See what adds for YouTube, or you're doing all Facebook ads, like if something happens where the YouTube algorithm changes or the Facebook ad algorithm changes or whatever, and then you're suddenly your Facebook account gets blocked or, they ban you from accessing your account for whatever reason. 157 00:12:46,123.14058957 --> 00:12:50,293.14058957 I, it's happened to a lot of people before for various reasons. 158 00:12:50,543.14058957 --> 00:12:59,228.48072562 If that, Then it's okay, now your primary way of collecting leads and getting leads into your business is shut down. 159 00:12:59,498.48072562 --> 00:13:12,119.30839002 What is that gonna do to your business? So you really gotta consider okay,, it might be redundant to have something on Facebook and something on YouTube or something like that, or you're, distributing out to Google ads and things like that as well. 160 00:13:12,477.47165533 --> 00:13:17,38.29931973 But you also have to consider if something happens, to your account in that one area. 161 00:13:17,158.29931973 --> 00:13:25,987.84580499 Do you have some bit of redundancy so that you can still get leads into your business? Your business can still run? even if. 162 00:13:26,19.30839002 --> 00:13:31,29.30839002 That one stream of incoming leads just completely shuts down. 163 00:13:31,359.30839002 --> 00:13:33,309.01360544 So I think that's a really important thing as well. 164 00:13:33,309.01360544 --> 00:13:41,733.93424036 Like you were mentioning the piece, if the drought comes or the strong weather the Facebook ad drought comes you wanna be prepared for that. 165 00:13:41,763.93424036 --> 00:13:44,129.76190476 You wanna be prepared for something that could happen. 166 00:13:44,176.51927438 --> 00:13:45,21.75736961 If you have. 167 00:13:45,946.75736961 --> 00:13:47,626.75736961 Capacity and bandwidth in your business. 168 00:13:47,626.75736961 --> 00:13:48,76.75736961 Of course. 169 00:13:48,346.75736961 --> 00:13:50,446.75736961 So I wanna ask you a little bit about this. 170 00:13:50,458.04988662 --> 00:13:59,228.66213152 What if you're a small business, you're just starting out, you don't have the capacity for redundancy, you realize something is redundant in your business. 171 00:13:59,233.66213152 --> 00:14:05,305.6122449 What would you consider are like the choices that you should make in order to say Okay, we can cut this. 172 00:14:05,545.6122449 --> 00:14:06,895.6122449 We shouldn't cut this. 173 00:14:06,941.54195011 --> 00:14:08,591.54195011 So it might sound a. 174 00:14:08,601.54195011 --> 00:14:12,182.56235827 Contradictive, but I'm a fan of efficiency and streamlining things. 175 00:14:12,214.7845805 --> 00:14:22,938.88888889 I often ask myself, where do I get the majority of my business from? My money, from? Where do I spend the majority of my time? Is it that or is it something else? If it's something else, change it. 176 00:14:22,953.88888889 --> 00:14:25,543.88888889 I think it is, it's just bit by bit upleveling. 177 00:14:25,553.88888889 --> 00:14:31,798.88888889 So we have the 80 20 principle, 80% of the income comes from 20% of the time or activity. 178 00:14:31,808.88888889 --> 00:14:35,543.88888889 So when we look at, okay, this 20% of time, I wanna spend more on that. 179 00:14:35,553.88888889 --> 00:14:39,213.88888889 Okay, let me make it my 80% of time or 90% of time. 180 00:14:39,243.88888889 --> 00:14:39,513.88888889 Okay. 181 00:14:39,513.88888889 --> 00:14:44,313.88888889 And then within that, I look again and I look again and I look again and I just continue going up. 182 00:14:44,328.88888889 --> 00:14:47,238.88888889 And there will always be some variety and that is good. 183 00:14:47,248.88888889 --> 00:14:47,908.88888889 Yeah, definitely. 184 00:14:47,933.91156462 --> 00:14:50,499.92063492 I think that 80 20 rule is really that key. 185 00:14:50,499.92063492 --> 00:14:57,194.58049886 Being able to assess and determine, okay, if I am spending time in these redundant what. 186 00:14:57,204.58049886 --> 00:14:58,657.9138322 Appear to be redundant. 187 00:14:58,827.9138322 --> 00:15:06,978.14058957 Which one is taking more of my time? Which one is taking more of my resources? And really comparing the two of those because you only have a limited amount of time. 188 00:15:07,47.31292517 --> 00:15:11,117.31292517 Resources of availability may change in the future, may completely go away. 189 00:15:11,117.31292517 --> 00:15:15,973.45804988 You make it more so you, you have to really depend look into your time cuz that's always constant. 190 00:15:16,32.61904762 --> 00:15:17,562.61904762 And be able to use that. 191 00:15:17,567.93650793 --> 00:15:29,384.05895691 And it's important to, I said 80% or 90%, right? I didn't say a hundred percent because I think there's always something that is, that will not be directly money related, income related, but that is still important in the long run. 192 00:15:29,414.05895691 --> 00:15:34,304.03628118 So networking, for example I spend time networking and I don't get money for it. 193 00:15:34,309.03628118 --> 00:15:35,659.03628118 not directly at least. 194 00:15:35,664.03628118 --> 00:15:36,894.03628118 But it is something that. 195 00:15:36,904.03628118 --> 00:15:41,514.03628118 I look at and there as well, I decide which kind of networking brings me the most. 196 00:15:41,524.03628118 --> 00:15:42,724.03628118 However I define that. 197 00:15:42,994.03628118 --> 00:15:44,164.03628118 Okay, let me focus on that. 198 00:15:44,164.03628118 --> 00:15:52,659.03628118 That's probably 20% of the networking I do, that I get 80, 80% of the value, be it, connection level, emotionally, business opportunity somewhere in the future. 199 00:15:52,899.03628118 --> 00:15:54,734.03628118 I focus on that, right? Yeah, I. 200 00:15:54,744.03628118 --> 00:16:04,719.07029478 It is good to, to use, for example, the 80 20 principle to make decisions and then within the different areas that you engage in, that you use your time for, narrow down a little bit. 201 00:16:04,729.07029478 --> 00:16:05,720.47619047 Yeah definitely. 202 00:16:05,781.74603174 --> 00:16:20,257.98185941 I'd love to talk a little bit about your business emerged to Prosper and is the process of some of the things that we mentioned today about efficiency, resiliency really being able to talk about how we apply, principles of nature and apply that to business. 203 00:16:20,447.98185941 --> 00:16:27,792.98185941 Is that kind of what you take your clients through as you work with them? How does that kind of work for your business? Yeah, I do. 204 00:16:27,901.60997732 --> 00:16:35,781.59863945 So most of my clients are in some sort of a leadership position, be it in an organization, be it as an entrepreneur. 205 00:16:35,791.59863945 --> 00:16:38,741.59863945 And I help them make important decisions. 206 00:16:38,741.59863945 --> 00:16:40,301.5986395 I help them with. 207 00:16:40,311.5986395 --> 00:16:42,741.5986395 Achieving more balance in their life. 208 00:16:43,83.2539683 --> 00:16:46,713.2539683 Be it work life balance or some other kind of balance, more wellbeing. 209 00:16:46,785.3287982 --> 00:16:53,694.9206349 And, often it also has something to do with transitions, right? So I coach them to, use their own wisdom. 210 00:16:53,694.9206349 --> 00:16:57,73.6938775 The name Emerge to Prosper is not my business name for nothing. 211 00:16:57,143.3310658 --> 00:17:03,550.5759637 I believe that, the core of us has to emerge so that we can prosper, right? So that's what I support my clients in. 212 00:17:03,555.5759637 --> 00:17:08,68.9773243 And I do use the principles of nature in the conversations whenever it is fitting. 213 00:17:08,126.7777778 --> 00:17:10,412.9229025 For example, there's the principle. 214 00:17:10,417.9229025 --> 00:17:15,621.0294785 Cyclity, meaning that, we go through different seasons in life and in a year and in a day. 215 00:17:15,652.4807256 --> 00:17:19,477.4807256 And, that we can honor that most people don't honor it a lot. 216 00:17:19,482.4807256 --> 00:17:22,32.4807256 But we can, and it is good for us. 217 00:17:22,392.4807256 --> 00:17:27,217.4807256 It's actually, it's so interesting there are a bunch of studies on. 218 00:17:27,227.4807256 --> 00:17:31,669.1360544 The circadian rhythm, more or less 24 hour rhythm of like day and night. 219 00:17:31,723.7732426 --> 00:17:43,978.7732426 And there are different studies looking at different variables, health variables and whether people follow their natural cycle or don't doing shift work, for example, working nights or whatever it is. 220 00:17:43,988.7732426 --> 00:17:46,812.3560091 And consistently they show if you live. 221 00:17:46,884.4081633 --> 00:17:55,294.4081633 According to the rhythm, which from person to person might be a bit different, but generally it is being awake during the day, sleeping at night. 222 00:17:55,318.4557823 --> 00:18:02,425.1111111 And then, there are some more details, but in general, those that don't follow that are sick compared to the ones that follow. 223 00:18:02,435.1111111 --> 00:18:04,841.7777778 That's on physical level, that's on an emotional level. 224 00:18:04,841.7777778 --> 00:18:06,251.7777778 It's on an energy level. 225 00:18:06,261.7777778 --> 00:18:11,45.4852608 So it's super, super interesting to know that, it's not just something that, we observe. 226 00:18:11,45.4852608 --> 00:18:11,285.4852608 Okay. 227 00:18:11,285.4852608 --> 00:18:22,217.5827664 The seasons of the year and day and night, it is directly related, not just to how awake with you, but also to how healthy we are if we follow it, or if we rebel against. 228 00:18:22,517.5827664 --> 00:18:23,599.9637188 Yeah, Definitely. 229 00:18:23,646.7210884 --> 00:18:24,186.7210884 That's great. 230 00:18:24,231.3469388 --> 00:18:28,250.9501134 And I think the topic of circadian rhythms is so interesting. 231 00:18:28,348.569161 --> 00:18:33,638.1043084 How much our bodies really depend on that circadian rhythm and what you can use to. 232 00:18:33,708.1043084 --> 00:18:38,686.6417234 Trigger circadian rhythms and make sure that everything is in sync and going a long line. 233 00:18:38,686.6417234 --> 00:18:53,15.2244898 And, it it's super interesting cuz I, it also prepares the way, you act throughout the day because there's not only, your circadian rhythm of, the 24 hour, about 24 hour cycle, but there's also the intra radiant. 234 00:18:53,69.861678 --> 00:18:53,519.861678 Rhythms. 235 00:18:53,519.861678 --> 00:18:57,659.861678 So like those 90 minute cycles that we have through throughout the day. 236 00:18:57,909.861678 --> 00:19:04,609.952381 And then you have seasonal rhythms, for women you have the monthly cycle for men. 237 00:19:04,609.952381 --> 00:19:09,733.8185941 There's also a cycle as well that we go through in terms of month, in terms of seasons. 238 00:19:09,733.8185941 --> 00:19:11,543.2290249 So we think of ourselves as like very. 239 00:19:11,560.9614512 --> 00:19:15,400.6666667 Oh I'm this way and I've always been this way and I always will be this way. 240 00:19:15,760.6666667 --> 00:19:20,790.0997732 But it's like we go through rhythms even throughout the day, throughout our energy levels and all sorts of stuff. 241 00:19:20,795.0997732 --> 00:19:27,250.6893424 So it's always very interesting to try to tap into those things or understand what's going on with our body. 242 00:19:27,255.6893424 --> 00:19:33,955.6893424 To, like you said, be able to understand where we are so we can emerge, get that core part of ourselves so that we can prosper. 243 00:19:33,955.6893424 --> 00:19:36,49.6575964 And I think that's really huge. 244 00:19:36,116.7097506 --> 00:19:45,168.3310658 Just to add to that in large parts of the world where there are more differences between summer and winter, there is the seasonal effective disorder or winter. 245 00:19:45,820.38322 --> 00:19:56,499.1814059 People get depressed in winter, meaning people feel a lack of energy, a lack of motivation to do things and feel down and don't wanna leave the bed. 246 00:19:56,509.1814059 --> 00:20:00,159.1814059 Now, if we look at it evolutionarily, that makes total sense. 247 00:20:00,169.1814059 --> 00:20:03,619.1814059 There's no wonder, because there's nothing much to do in winter. 248 00:20:03,662.6848073 --> 00:20:05,282.1972789 The question is perhaps. 249 00:20:05,292.1972789 --> 00:20:18,617.5034014 Should we consider it a disorder or is it just normal? Are those people, perhaps even the ones that are more normal than the ones who don't feel it? Because, when we look at the seasons, it's like in the regions that have a stronger difference between winter and summer. 250 00:20:18,692.5034014 --> 00:20:22,984.8390023 It's in winter, you don't really do much in spring, life starts to emerge. 251 00:20:23,57.1292517 --> 00:20:27,227.1292517 You can start walking around, eat some leaves, but you don't really have fruit yet. 252 00:20:27,294.2040816 --> 00:20:32,396.8004535 You can, if you cultivate something, you can start cultivating in summer, things get right it's more work. 253 00:20:32,401.8004535 --> 00:20:36,70.8707483 Maybe, more collecting and fall than is enjoy. 254 00:20:36,142.9229025 --> 00:20:52,734.69161 What you have harvested and preparing for the winter, preparing the food to be stored for winter and then in winter is not doing much, just being there, moving a little bit, turning on a fire, eating something that you conserved, so most of us nowadays don't live like that, which is also good, I think. 255 00:20:52,784.69161 --> 00:20:55,274.69161 That season of cycle is still somewhere within us. 256 00:20:55,364.69161 --> 00:21:02,625.7120181 And maybe we don't have to do it exactly like we did during the majority of our lifetime as humans, but we can honor it a little bit more. 257 00:21:02,775.7120181 --> 00:21:06,318.0929705 We say, Okay, December, January, February, I will slow down a little bit. 258 00:21:06,323.0929705 --> 00:21:09,353.0929705 And then March, April, okay, now it's time for innovation. 259 00:21:09,353.0929705 --> 00:21:12,540.553288 Make things happen, start new things, have a new business idea. 260 00:21:12,870.553288 --> 00:21:14,610.553288 Summer is executing it and. 261 00:21:14,621.675737 --> 00:21:21,565.0544218 Autumn fall is, reviewing it, seeing how it's going still, receiving some of the goods that came from it and then, do it again. 262 00:21:21,565.0544218 --> 00:21:22,675.0544218 Yeah, for sure. 263 00:21:22,765.0544218 --> 00:21:25,767.4353741 Being able to honor that cycle is important. 264 00:21:25,772.4353741 --> 00:21:45,603.5238095 and you mentioned are they more normal Like when you talk about people with seasonal effective disorder, cuz disorders are all dependent on the society that you live in, right? So it's very social in terms of like psychotic disorders and things like that because of the fact that it is all defined by the social surrounding. 265 00:21:45,663.5238095 --> 00:21:52,317.6394558 And are you the crazy one or is everyone around you just crazy, right? So it is that like crazy argument there. 266 00:21:52,375.2018141 --> 00:21:57,657.1292517 So what is your goals for the next six months for your business personally. 267 00:21:57,662.1292517 --> 00:22:00,252.2199546 It's a great segue from what I just talked about. 268 00:22:00,257.2199546 --> 00:22:04,287.2426304 So I'm not gonna start anything very new now, these months. 269 00:22:04,342.2426304 --> 00:22:05,482.2426304 business is going well. 270 00:22:05,487.2426304 --> 00:22:08,187.2426304 I wanna do more of what I'm doing already. 271 00:22:08,467.877551 --> 00:22:10,297.877551 I have space for a couple more clients. 272 00:22:10,369.952381 --> 00:22:11,179.952381 I wanna. 273 00:22:11,234.952381 --> 00:22:13,960.1678005 Solidify some things that I'm doing. 274 00:22:14,200.1678005 --> 00:22:18,348.4897959 I wanna, keep in contact with business opportunities that I have. 275 00:22:18,348.4897959 --> 00:22:29,812.4580499 For example, the cause there to care, I partnered up with somebody and I think the fisher part of what he's doing with another partner of his is just taking so long, but, I want to keep on top of it. 276 00:22:29,822.4580499 --> 00:22:45,312.6054422 And then I think prepare already or, have my feelers out there for next year and see what's gonna happen because, now, knock on wood, with the winter coming in the Northern Hemisphere, There's not gonna be too much covid going on and restrictions going on. 277 00:22:45,317.6054422 --> 00:22:50,567.6054422 I would really like to see more traveling next year, more offline events next year. 278 00:22:50,572.6054422 --> 00:22:56,760.0884354 Yeah, my first offline event was this summer in July when I spent three weeks in pto. 279 00:22:56,850.0884354 --> 00:22:57,510.0884354 That was great. 280 00:22:57,510.0884354 --> 00:23:01,825.723356 So something like that, working with accelerators giving workshops. 281 00:23:01,894.8730159 --> 00:23:03,489.8730159 And just more of the same. 282 00:23:03,489.8730159 --> 00:23:03,879.8730159 Really. 283 00:23:03,889.8730159 --> 00:23:04,379.8730159 Good. 284 00:23:04,379.8730159 --> 00:23:08,522.1836735 When you've got a system that works, you just kind keep going and keep doing it so that's great. 285 00:23:08,527.1836735 --> 00:23:11,829.4399093 And I like to ask as well, what are you currently learning right now? Yeah. 286 00:23:11,839.4399093 --> 00:23:12,389.4399093 I am. 287 00:23:12,399.4399093 --> 00:23:16,969.4399093 Learning and relearning and reinforcing quality over quantity. 288 00:23:16,974.4399093 --> 00:23:28,689.8253968 When it comes to relationships especially that's what I'm learning right now and learning about actually connects to my first point, learning about, dependence and interdependence in relationships. 289 00:23:28,744.8253968 --> 00:23:43,76.4920635 On a very personal level, so noticing, okay, when I'm too dependent on another person, what I want to do is actually take initiative if possible, or do together to get out of that and become a bit more dependen. 290 00:23:43,186.4920635 --> 00:23:55,701.4920635 Not disconnected, but independent to then be able to more intentionally and more from the heart, choose each other's company rather than it's comfortable, it's working. 291 00:23:55,731.4920635 --> 00:23:56,661.4920635 Okay, let's do this. 292 00:23:56,661.4920635 --> 00:23:59,306.3673469 No that's not how I want my relationships to look like. 293 00:23:59,378.4195011 --> 00:24:02,378.4195011 I want it to be intentional and I want it to be from the heart. 294 00:24:02,558.4195011 --> 00:24:03,798.4195011 So that's where I'm going. 295 00:24:03,803.4195011 --> 00:24:04,373.4195011 That's good. 296 00:24:04,373.4195011 --> 00:24:04,793.4195011 That's good. 297 00:24:04,793.4195011 --> 00:24:05,423.4195011 I like that. 298 00:24:05,492.8526077 --> 00:24:08,882.8526077 Being really intentional with your actions, which is really good. 299 00:24:08,987.8526077 --> 00:24:18,645.6984127 And what is one takeaway that you could hope somebody who's listening to this interview, what is one thing that you hope they take away from listening to this? I think That's a great book, actually. 300 00:24:18,645.6984127 --> 00:24:19,215.6984127 Have it here. 301 00:24:19,225.6984127 --> 00:24:35,465.6984127 It's called The Illusion of Separation by Jill Hutchins, and what he writes is that his opinion is that, or his conclusion of this analysis is that the problems we have today in society come because we perceive a separation that is actually an illusion. 302 00:24:35,705.6984127 --> 00:24:36,695.6984127 There is no separat. 303 00:24:36,705.6984127 --> 00:24:43,30.6984127 The separation he's talking about is mostly, we humans being separated from the rest of nature, from the other animals. 304 00:24:43,40.6984127 --> 00:24:43,760.6984127 It's not true. 305 00:24:43,770.6984127 --> 00:24:45,172.3764172 So we are part of it. 306 00:24:45,262.3764172 --> 00:24:52,9.4739229 We're part of a giant web of interconnections and, there are repercussions everywhere all the time. 307 00:24:52,19.4739229 --> 00:25:06,44.4739229 And if we tune into that, Which means living also or paying attention also to outside of everything that we humans have created ourselves, meaning nature, the rest of nature the rest of all the other animals. 308 00:25:06,99.4739229 --> 00:25:15,380.1428571 If we tune into that and learn from and with that, we can actually heal ourselves and contribute more positively to the development of. 309 00:25:15,385.1428571 --> 00:25:19,625.1428571 There's often this very masculine feeling of, but I wanna be in control. 310 00:25:19,835.1428571 --> 00:25:24,610.1428571 And I think as societies we have to see, okay, there's space and time for that. 311 00:25:24,610.1428571 --> 00:25:31,729.1904762 But then also there's space and time to listen and absorb and see and be agile and go with the flow of the seasons, for example. 312 00:25:31,729.1904762 --> 00:25:33,319.1904762 And learn from and with. 313 00:25:33,329.1904762 --> 00:25:34,49.1904762 Yeah, definitely. 314 00:25:34,49.1904762 --> 00:25:53,290.4943311 And I think that's coming into play with so many different areas of business and of industry is just realizing how much we really need to understand, how we can work with nature in the natural way of things versus just trying to control it and go, and try to make it do what we want it to do. 315 00:25:53,300.4943311 --> 00:26:12,579.4852608 and it's like realizing that when you start understanding The way things are supposed to be or used to be and the way things have grown in that way, and you start using that to your advantage, you can make such bigger progress than you ever could if you just try to control it and constrict it and make it do what you want it to do. 316 00:26:12,969.4852608 --> 00:26:19,414.0544218 Just like in, Big one that comes up for me is like agriculture with the new movement for regenerative farming. 317 00:26:19,744.0544218 --> 00:26:34,23.1814059 Being able to look at like understanding, the soil and understanding, the relationship between the different crops that you have and being able to distribute into multi, crop, fields and being able to, use that to your advantage. 318 00:26:34,43.6122449 --> 00:26:51,457.1156463 It has been completely transformational for the farming industry and will continue to just completely transform because instead of just bombarding the crops with different pesticides and herbicides and all this stuff that it just ended up create even more problems than it fixed. 319 00:26:51,467.1156463 --> 00:27:00,561.968254 We're realizing that, hey, maybe if we diversify our fields a little bit, maybe if we, try to, stop tilling the soil every single year. 320 00:27:00,592.9659864 --> 00:27:06,77.1836735 Maybe if we, plant something in between in the off season so that all the dirt doesn't run away. 321 00:27:06,77.1836735 --> 00:27:11,387.1836735 Like we're learning all of these new things about just understanding how connected we are. 322 00:27:11,727.1836735 --> 00:27:22,393.3061225 To the, natural way of things and that we really just need to go back to that and understand how we can leverage those pieces of it to really go forward. 323 00:27:22,558.3061225 --> 00:27:22,858.3061225 Yeah. 324 00:27:22,888.3061225 --> 00:27:24,585.4263039 I'm so passionate about that too. 325 00:27:24,683.0113379 --> 00:27:30,594.5646259 We live in an area where, I can walk 10 minutes and I'm in the middle of farms and they don't look good. 326 00:27:30,883.9297052 --> 00:27:32,617.6371882 Every time I'm there I'm like, damn. 327 00:27:32,627.6371882 --> 00:27:37,695.5510204 So that Barron large part of the year, and if not, there's a single crop growing. 328 00:27:37,695.5510204 --> 00:27:43,66.9909297 There has to be irrigated because there's a lot of sun, there's some wind that's right at the coast. 329 00:27:43,76.9909297 --> 00:27:47,211.9909297 And what I've actually observed is that there is no lack of water. 330 00:27:47,581.6961451 --> 00:27:50,101.6961451 We live in a dry area, but there is no lack of water. 331 00:27:50,341.6961451 --> 00:27:50,761.6961451 They need to. 332 00:27:51,503.0453515 --> 00:27:53,992.3786848 because they interfered with the way how it is naturally. 333 00:27:54,2.3786848 --> 00:27:57,287.3786848 Because, I went on the street just a couple kilometers from here on the right. 334 00:27:57,297.3786848 --> 00:28:03,697.2426304 Orange groves, every tree, a tree every three or four meters, they all need to be drip irrigated. 335 00:28:03,707.2426304 --> 00:28:06,347.2426304 At least it's drip irrigation, but it's still irrigation. 336 00:28:06,497.2426304 --> 00:28:08,487.2426304 They need at least two liters per day. 337 00:28:08,492.2426304 --> 00:28:10,656.9478458 And the monthly rainfall on average, Minimal. 338 00:28:10,701.9478458 --> 00:28:18,61.9478458 And then I look on the other side of the road and it's bushes and shrubs and herbs, two meters high, zero irrigation. 339 00:28:18,66.9478458 --> 00:28:19,176.9478458 Life is there. 340 00:28:19,236.9478458 --> 00:28:21,366.9478458 Life has a way to express itself here. 341 00:28:21,636.9478458 --> 00:28:29,81.9478458 It's not the orange trees, it's not them singled out without anything around it, but there is life and there's more, biodiversity. 342 00:28:29,81.9478458 --> 00:28:30,916.9478458 There are more animals and it. 343 00:28:30,961.9478458 --> 00:28:31,741.9478458 It is possible. 344 00:28:31,741.9478458 --> 00:28:37,941.9478458 We just have to live more aligned with nature and with the possibilities that we have in the context that we live in. 345 00:28:37,951.9478458 --> 00:28:38,701.9478458 Yeah, definitely. 346 00:28:38,701.9478458 --> 00:28:42,652.5487528 And realizing how, important that is, is a key thing. 347 00:28:42,652.5487528 --> 00:28:45,270.0544218 And I think we're getting back there for a lot of different things. 348 00:28:45,343.659864 --> 00:28:46,283.6825397 It takes time. 349 00:28:46,288.6825397 --> 00:28:50,158.6825397 of course, just like anything, but I think we're, I think we're getting back there, which is really good. 350 00:28:50,168.6825397 --> 00:28:52,868.6825397 Now, just to finish up here with the last question. 351 00:28:52,868.6825397 --> 00:29:04,467.3900227 If anybody wants to reach out to you, learn more about your coaching business, learn more about what you're doing with the accelerators and all sorts of other things, how can they best reach out to you? So There are basically two things. 352 00:29:04,517.3900227 --> 00:29:10,787.2539683 It's my website to get to know a bit more about me and my coaching, what I offer and the courses I do. 353 00:29:10,792.2539683 --> 00:29:18,259.600907 And then if it's more on an inspirational level every now and then come connect with me on LinkedIn, read my content, read the things I write and interact. 354 00:29:18,264.600907 --> 00:29:23,479.600907 If you have anything to share, if you have any questions, then I'm happy to have quality interactions, as I said. 355 00:29:23,489.600907 --> 00:29:24,29.600907 Awesome. 356 00:29:24,89.600907 --> 00:29:25,199.600907 Yes, definitely. 357 00:29:25,439.600907 --> 00:29:31,427.2086168 And what's your website for everybody listening here? So it's emerge to prosper.com 358 00:29:31,437.2086168 --> 00:29:31,637.2086168 altogether. 359 00:29:31,637.2086168 --> 00:29:31,957.2086168 Perfect. 360 00:29:31,967.2086168 --> 00:29:32,417.2086168 Perfect. 361 00:29:32,427.2086168 --> 00:29:32,997.2086168 Awesome. 362 00:29:33,57.2086168 --> 00:29:35,821.8344671 Jorim, thank you so much for joining us on this show. 363 00:29:35,821.8344671 --> 00:29:48,658.0022676 It's been really awesome having you on talking all about this connection between nature and using those features of nature to understand business and applying them both ways and a great conversation. 364 00:29:48,688.0022676 --> 00:29:53,78.0022676 And I'm sure that everyone listening today definitely got a lot out of our conversation. 365 00:29:53,78.0022676 --> 00:29:56,678.0022676 So thank you so much for joining the show and I hope to have you back on. 366 00:29:56,688.0022676 --> 00:29:57,678.0022676 Yeah, thank you too. 367 00:29:57,738.0022676 --> 00:29:58,398.0022676 Would be great. 368 00:29:58,403.0022676 --> 00:30:09,743.0022676 And if you enjoyed this interview with Dream and how to reconnect with nature and use nature's principles and apply them to business, then I invite you to check out his online courses linked in the description below. 369 00:30:09,803.0022676 --> 00:30:19,603.0022676 They're the perfect way for you to enhance your leadership skills and connect back to nature to provide you a way to reach your goals in 2020.
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