Switch to Sustainability and WIN or Don’t and LOSE | Trick or Treat #podcast

In this episode, we have the pleasure of speaking with Brent Schulkin, the founder of Trick or Treat, a company that has been gaining a lot of attention for its innovative approach to corporate social responsibility. Brent is an ecopreneur who has been working to create a more sustainable future for businesses and communities alike. During our conversation, he shares his insights on how companies can make a positive impact on their local communities through sustainable practices and social responsibility initiatives.

Trick or Treat is leading the way in this field, and Brent's passion for sustainability is contagious. He tells us about the challenges he faced when starting the company, and how he has been able to overcome them. We also learn about the unique ways that Trick or Treat is helping businesses to adopt sustainable practices and build stronger relationships with their communities.

So, whether you are a business owner looking to make a positive impact on your community, or simply interested in sustainability and social responsibility, this episode is a must-listen. Brent's journey and the work of Trick or Treat are truly inspiring, and we hope that you will be as motivated as we were by this conversation.

We hope that you enjoy the show!

Check out Trick or Treat’s website:

https://trickortreat.co

Socials for Trick or Treat:

https://www.instagram.com/7rickor7rea7/

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100085583011677

http://www.tiktok.com/@7rickor7rea7

https://twitter.com/7rickor7rea7

Find Brent Schulkin on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/schulkin/

Check out this interview that I mention at the end of the episode:

YouTube: https://youtu.be/5lkguqqKylk

or

Audio: https://podcast.greenbusinessimpact.com/e/empowering-your-wallet-to-impact-the-climate-crisis-power-to-the-stakeholders-fennel-interview/?token=2a3040eef7ff07713fe3ccab008ca611

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Episode Transcript

(00:24):
That will incentivize companies to make sustainability reforms to their business for a treat, and if they don't, then there will be some consequences, a trick.
So stay tuned to learn exactly. 5 00:00:35,471.666666667 --> 00:00:38,781.666666667 What those consequences are and the benefits for receiving a treat. 6 00:00:38,791.666666667 --> 00:00:41,471.666666667 And make sure to also listen to how you. 7 00:00:41,731.666666667 --> 00:00:45,791.666666667 Can help make this a reality on this episode of the Green Business Impact Podcast. 8 00:01:22,367.823129252 --> 00:01:31,940.550401979 brent, thank you so much for coming on to Green Business Impact Podcast, and can you tell us about Trick or Treat and what you guys do? Yeah, for sure. 9 00:01:31,945.550401979 --> 00:01:33,470.550401979 So thanks for having me. 10 00:01:33,470.550401979 --> 00:01:40,435.09585652 Trick or Treat is a Halloween themed exchange traded fund that does climate activism. 11 00:01:40,798.42918986 --> 00:01:43,108.42918986 Which is probably something you haven't heard of before. 12 00:01:43,611.76252319 --> 00:01:44,541.76252319 It's pretty new stuff. 13 00:01:45,76.76252319 --> 00:01:52,286.76252319 Basically what we're doing is we're building a community of people who care about climate and then we're all going to invest together in a fund. 14 00:01:52,296.76252319 --> 00:02:10,773.42918986 And then the idea is that every month that fund will invest in, buy stock in one company, and then we're gonna challenge that company to take some action on climate, do some sustainable action, and if the company does what we want, And you know, the, we here, hopefully it's like a million people, like very large influential group. 15 00:02:11,13.42918986 --> 00:02:16,246.76252319 If they do what we want, then we are going to reward them, which we call the treat, of trick or treat. 16 00:02:16,251.76252319 --> 00:02:17,631.76252319 And that means we're promoting them. 17 00:02:17,631.76252319 --> 00:02:23,161.76252319 And in theory, if we just make a ton of noise and we're buying their product, we can actually increase the value of the company. 18 00:02:23,785.09585652 --> 00:02:30,635.09585652 And that means that the stock price would go up while we are, a significant shareholder. 19 00:02:30,680.09585652 --> 00:02:42,950.09585652 So basically we're pressuring companies to take climate action, but potentially making money for this fund if they do what we want, but it's also possible that they will not do what they want. 20 00:02:43,170.09585652 --> 00:02:44,670.09585652 They will not do something impressive. 21 00:02:45,143.42918986 --> 00:02:49,393.42918986 In which case we will do a trick, which is not as nice as the treat. 22 00:02:49,403.42918986 --> 00:02:58,673.42918986 And a trick basically means that we're all trying to destroy this company and we want to actually make an example of them, make them go bankrupt as quickly as possible. 23 00:02:58,688.42918986 --> 00:03:06,300.09585652 And so it's a climate action thing that we're doing that happens to also be a potentially lucrative investment fund as well. 24 00:03:06,360.09585652 --> 00:03:07,530.09585652 So that's the gist of it. 25 00:03:07,540.09585652 --> 00:03:07,840.09585652 Yeah. 26 00:03:07,840.09585652 --> 00:03:16,845.09585652 And so you're, giving them a treat or you're tricking them and basically, trying to make it so that they didn't do what they said they were gonna do, they didn't hold up on their end of the promise. 27 00:03:17,421.76252319 --> 00:03:20,916.76252319 So they should have some consequences associated with like that. 28 00:03:20,966.76252319 --> 00:03:23,941.76252319 You can't just, come out and pledge, you're gonna do this, and that. 29 00:03:23,941.76252319 --> 00:03:31,631.76252319 And then, really after three years later, you really haven't taken any steps forward or done anything that you've said you're gonna do. 30 00:03:31,661.76252319 --> 00:03:33,481.76252319 So there should be some consequences. 31 00:03:33,641.76252319 --> 00:03:41,586.76252319 I think that's what you guys are trying to prove here, right? Yeah, I think that, so part of it is definitely if you said you would do something, let's hold you accountable to that. 32 00:03:41,736.76252319 --> 00:03:45,696.76252319 But another part of it is like maybe you didn't even say you were gonna do anything yet. 33 00:03:46,56.76252319 --> 00:03:49,576.76252319 And then we're gonna say, Hey, you have to, here's the bar. 34 00:03:49,586.76252319 --> 00:03:52,867.76252319 And this is maybe what's normal, but we're gonna raise that bar here. 35 00:03:52,877.76252319 --> 00:03:54,187.76252319 And it's up to you. 36 00:03:54,187.76252319 --> 00:03:56,887.76252319 It's your choice and you can either impress us or not. 37 00:03:56,897.76252319 --> 00:04:04,582.76252319 And it's I see the market as this like evolutionary process where, every day companies fail because they don't meet the demands of the market. 38 00:04:04,592.76252319 --> 00:04:09,242.76252319 And we're saying, we're the market, we're getting organized and we have a specific demand around this. 39 00:04:09,632.76252319 --> 00:04:14,518.76252319 And it's fine if you can't meet that and maybe you'll have to shut down, but if you can, can, you'll thrive. 40 00:04:14,518.76252319 --> 00:04:17,13.76252319 And instead of just being about traditional. 41 00:04:17,373.76252319 --> 00:04:21,113.76252319 Business imperatives we're saying, this is what we want you to compete for. 42 00:04:21,263.76252319 --> 00:04:22,898.76252319 So see if we can move some markets. 43 00:04:22,898.76252319 --> 00:04:23,432.76252319 Yeah, definitely. 44 00:04:23,437.76252319 --> 00:04:23,947.76252319 Definitely. 45 00:04:24,127.76252319 --> 00:04:27,417.76252319 So what's really, your mission for bringing this about? Yeah. 46 00:04:27,467.76252319 --> 00:04:33,887.76252319 The way I look at the world personally is very much, I'm a very impact driven person. 47 00:04:33,892.76252319 --> 00:04:45,72.76252319 How can I of my short life just maximize the impact on the world? And I go from small things like, oh, in the early days when I was younger, maybe I was like, oh, let's like feed the hungry, the soup kitchen. 48 00:04:45,77.76252319 --> 00:04:47,622.76252319 I'm like, ah, I wanna think bigger and more systemic. 49 00:04:47,622.76252319 --> 00:04:48,492.76252319 And I kept thinking bigger. 50 00:04:49,119.42918986 --> 00:04:55,359.42918986 And then I got to like climate and I was like, wow, climate is like the biggest, most complex thing. 51 00:04:55,359.42918986 --> 00:04:56,619.42918986 That's what I want to go after. 52 00:04:56,619.42918986 --> 00:04:58,574.42918986 We have to solve all these things at once. 53 00:04:58,574.42918986 --> 00:05:00,164.42918986 It's all interdependent. 54 00:05:00,174.42918986 --> 00:05:07,999.42918986 And then I was like, you know what really is gonna help us solve climate, something even more complex, which is like capitalism, like the economy. 55 00:05:07,999.42918986 --> 00:05:12,864.42918986 And I don't know, I think I just get really excited about really complex systemic problems. 56 00:05:12,874.42918986 --> 00:05:14,319.42918986 And climate change is one. 57 00:05:14,454.42918986 --> 00:05:18,804.42918986 How the economy works is another, and this is the nice fusion of both of those. 58 00:05:18,804.42918986 --> 00:05:21,694.42918986 And I think there's a lot of people in the world who feel. 59 00:05:21,704.42918986 --> 00:05:29,24.42918986 Quietly desperate about climate and they're full of grief and fear and they're also like, ah, we'll be fine. 60 00:05:29,34.42918986 --> 00:05:30,329.42918986 But we're not seeing the progress. 61 00:05:30,329.42918986 --> 00:05:38,824.42918986 And a lot of people feel that way about, that people have all kinds of opinions about capitalism, but there are a lot of people who are like, wow, this system isn't quite doing what we would love to have it do. 62 00:05:39,254.42918986 --> 00:05:41,174.42918986 And like I don't really know the way around that. 63 00:05:41,174.42918986 --> 00:05:45,34.42918986 So that's why I'm trying to deliver a solution that will. 64 00:05:45,409.42918986 --> 00:05:52,279.42918986 Make climate people be like, oh, at last, a way we can go faster and systemically, move these big institutions to change. 65 00:05:52,289.42918986 --> 00:05:54,599.42918986 And then people feel about their role in business. 66 00:05:54,599.42918986 --> 00:05:56,69.42918986 It's actually, okay, this is fine. 67 00:05:56,69.42918986 --> 00:06:01,864.42918986 This is yeah, it's about profits and business, but we're gonna put our values in there so that actually solves problems. 68 00:06:01,924.42918986 --> 00:06:05,729.42918986 So I think that's hopefully what we'll find a yearning for out there. 69 00:06:05,739.42918986 --> 00:06:06,429.42918986 Yeah definitely. 70 00:06:06,519.42918986 --> 00:06:16,867.76252319 Have you talked to any people so far? Have you seen a lot of support around this so far? Have you gotten any like big names or anybody who's really been like, yeah I like that. 71 00:06:16,877.76252319 --> 00:06:17,927.76252319 I like what you're doing there. 72 00:06:17,937.76252319 --> 00:06:18,437.76252319 Yeah, totally. 73 00:06:18,632.76252319 --> 00:06:23,312.76252319 I came up with this idea, I've got a background in starting companies, technology startups. 74 00:06:23,657.76252319 --> 00:06:29,867.76252319 I know about business, I know about activism, but I knew nothing about finance and the stock market that was totally new to me. 75 00:06:30,137.76252319 --> 00:06:38,377.76252319 So I definitely spent about a little over a year just talking to experts and saying, this has gotta be illegal, right? This is really possible. 76 00:06:38,387.76252319 --> 00:06:40,887.76252319 I'm like, there's gotta be some loophole here. 77 00:06:41,67.76252319 --> 00:06:47,967.76252319 And just, continually talking to, whether it's lawyers or hedge fund managers, or people on the board of publicly traded companies. 78 00:06:48,342.76252319 --> 00:06:50,482.76252319 And people were like, this is outrageous. 79 00:06:50,492.76252319 --> 00:06:52,172.76252319 This is just a preposterous idea. 80 00:06:52,172.76252319 --> 00:06:55,952.76252319 It'll be difficult, but actually it is possible and it is legal. 81 00:06:56,7.76252319 --> 00:06:57,2.76252319 And that's what I've been hearing. 82 00:06:57,2.76252319 --> 00:07:00,522.76252319 So throughout that process of doing diligence, I identified a group. 83 00:07:00,527.76252319 --> 00:07:04,812.76252319 There's probably about 60 people who I call my brain trust, and they're experts. 84 00:07:04,812.76252319 --> 00:07:07,942.76252319 Some of them are, just big executives and they understand different parts of this. 85 00:07:07,997.76252319 --> 00:07:10,397.76252319 And so I have those people and I call upon them sometimes. 86 00:07:10,452.76252319 --> 00:07:13,212.76252319 But that was all like private, like behind closed doors. 87 00:07:13,217.76252319 --> 00:07:15,12.76252319 I was like making sure this idea had legs. 88 00:07:15,372.76252319 --> 00:07:20,958.76252319 Now in the last six months or so, I like put up the website publicly and told my friends I was doing it. 89 00:07:21,77.76252319 --> 00:07:25,7.76252319 And so we've started to get more people checking out and being excited about it. 90 00:07:25,7.76252319 --> 00:07:25,637.76252319 We certainly do. 91 00:07:25,647.76252319 --> 00:07:27,207.76252319 Get people who are super excited. 92 00:07:27,252.76252319 --> 00:07:31,967.76252319 We haven't yet really done the huge marketing push, we're not growing that crazy. 93 00:07:31,967.76252319 --> 00:07:39,153.76252319 So what I'm actually doing is like working on how do I grow this? How does this thing go viral? What story do I tell? And so that's the phase I meant right now. 94 00:07:39,163.76252319 --> 00:07:40,243.76252319 Next will make some more noise. 95 00:07:40,318.76252319 --> 00:07:40,843.76252319 Yeah. 96 00:07:40,873.76252319 --> 00:07:41,413.76252319 Definitely. 97 00:07:41,593.76252319 --> 00:07:52,343.76252319 So why don't we go ahead and, oh, here, just provide us an example of how this would work and how you would see this play out in terms of the trick and the treat and how that would all work in terms of Yeah. 98 00:07:52,613.76252319 --> 00:07:56,193.76252319 The group and, supporting or moving away from a company. 99 00:07:56,682.09585652 --> 00:07:58,32.09585652 Yeah, why don't we go to an example. 100 00:07:58,62.09585652 --> 00:07:58,632.09585652 Oh my God. 101 00:07:58,632.09585652 --> 00:08:00,252.09585652 It's, I have such a crazy vision. 102 00:08:00,252.09585652 --> 00:08:01,482.09585652 It's super fun to talk about. 103 00:08:01,487.09585652 --> 00:08:04,697.09585652 Imagine, okay, you got a million people who all care about climate. 104 00:08:04,697.09585652 --> 00:08:12,147.09585652 They like making money, they like fun stuff, and they're all in this sort of the big chat room or something, right? So then we say, all right, it's the first of the month. 105 00:08:12,477.09585652 --> 00:08:14,547.09585652 Let's start planning what we're gonna do next. 106 00:08:14,787.09585652 --> 00:08:23,293.76252319 What climate solution are you all excited about? And people can vote, oh, I wanna do something with solar or low carbon concrete, or whatever their passion is. 107 00:08:23,293.76252319 --> 00:08:27,733.76252319 And maybe, for example, the winning vote could be regenerative of agriculture. 108 00:08:27,743.76252319 --> 00:08:37,963.76252319 And so then we would have a couple analysts, like paid analysts who work for the fund, or experts in sustainability and finance, and they would come up with some proposals for specific companies. 109 00:08:38,173.76252319 --> 00:08:41,153.76252319 We could ask them to do something different on regenerative agriculture. 110 00:08:41,153.76252319 --> 00:08:45,573.76252319 So maybe they say, oh, we could ask Campbell's soup to grow their celery in a different way. 111 00:08:45,573.76252319 --> 00:08:49,533.76252319 Or we could ask Safeway to only sell products with a certain certification. 112 00:08:49,533.76252319 --> 00:08:51,603.76252319 Or we could ask the Cheesecake Factory. 113 00:08:51,613.76252319 --> 00:08:57,783.76252319 To make their meat supply chain carbon negative with rotational grazing, whatever it is, and they come up with some ideas. 114 00:08:57,843.76252319 --> 00:09:09,843.76252319 And then we have a group that I'm calling the commission that doesn't exist yet, but we will create this group and they will have full governance, voting rights over every investment that the fund, the trick or treat fund makes. 115 00:09:09,853.76252319 --> 00:09:15,133.76252319 And so the vision here is that this is a bunch of people who are all. 116 00:09:15,143.76252319 --> 00:09:18,833.76252319 Climate impact people, they do not come from the stock market. 117 00:09:18,833.76252319 --> 00:09:20,183.76252319 They're the opposite of Wall Street. 118 00:09:20,573.76252319 --> 00:09:24,353.76252319 And those people will be on this meeting and they're like, okay, we're holding a meeting. 119 00:09:24,353.76252319 --> 00:09:30,824.76252319 There's a Zoom meeting, come analyst and present us with your proposals and everything that happens on this meeting. 120 00:09:31,213.76252319 --> 00:09:38,63.76252319 Everyone has to wear Halloween costumes cause it's very much a Halloween themed experience and it's just wacky. 121 00:09:38,403.76252319 --> 00:09:39,33.76252319 It's part of it. 122 00:09:39,38.76252319 --> 00:09:41,858.76252319 So the analysts come and say, okay, here's the Safeway idea. 123 00:09:42,128.76252319 --> 00:09:44,438.76252319 Here's the Cheesecake Factory, here's the Campbell soup. 124 00:09:44,483.76252319 --> 00:09:50,623.76252319 There's q and a, and then the commission will do like a secret ballot in that case, okay, I vote for this proposal. 125 00:09:50,623.76252319 --> 00:09:52,993.76252319 So maybe they choose the Cheesecake Factory idea. 126 00:09:53,3.76252319 --> 00:09:56,480.42918986 So then say we have a billion dollars in the fund. 127 00:09:56,480.42918986 --> 00:10:00,620.42918986 Some people invested a hundred bucks, some people invested a hundred thousand. 128 00:10:00,630.42918986 --> 00:10:01,785.42918986 And we get this a big chunk of money. 129 00:10:01,785.42918986 --> 00:10:09,325.42918986 So we take, let's say 5% of that $50 million, and we secretly buy up stock in the Cheesecake Factory. 130 00:10:09,335.42918986 --> 00:10:11,105.42918986 And then we get ready to announce it. 131 00:10:11,110.42918986 --> 00:10:15,245.42918986 We say, okay, community, you ready to know who's next? Drum roll please. 132 00:10:15,255.42918986 --> 00:10:18,255.42918986 And everyone's who's it gonna be? Who's it gonna be? And then we just tweet it out. 133 00:10:18,255.42918986 --> 00:10:19,755.42918986 We say, congratulations. 134 00:10:19,765.42918986 --> 00:10:21,925.42918986 The Cheesecake Factory and everyone's cheesecake. 135 00:10:21,935.42918986 --> 00:10:28,645.42918986 And the Cheesecake Factory is like, what? What, who's this? What, who are these people? What, what's going on? And we say, Hey, we're trick or treat. 136 00:10:29,35.42918986 --> 00:10:33,375.42918986 We just bought 8% of you and we're about to make you the most successful restaurant. 137 00:10:33,655.42918986 --> 00:10:35,34.76252319 We're going to all spend money. 138 00:10:35,538.09585652 --> 00:10:36,828.09585652 We're gonna double your sales. 139 00:10:36,828.09585652 --> 00:10:38,848.09585652 We're gonna blow up your social media. 140 00:10:39,238.09585652 --> 00:10:40,198.09585652 Everyone's gonna love you. 141 00:10:40,388.09585652 --> 00:10:41,943.09585652 This is gonna be so good for your business. 142 00:10:41,953.09585652 --> 00:10:43,813.09585652 And there's just one catch. 143 00:10:43,823.09585652 --> 00:10:44,723.09585652 We have an ask. 144 00:10:44,728.09585652 --> 00:10:50,513.09585652 So we want you to do something about, the supply chain, the way you do your meat sourcing. 145 00:10:50,693.09585652 --> 00:10:54,233.09585652 You have a hundred days to come back to the next meeting we have. 146 00:10:54,503.09585652 --> 00:11:02,296.42918986 You better send your ceo, they better wear a costume and then you're gonna tell us what you're willing to do and then our commission will listen to your proposal. 147 00:11:02,656.42918986 --> 00:11:04,696.42918986 And then they'll say, okay, get off the call ceo. 148 00:11:04,696.42918986 --> 00:11:14,381.42918986 And then they'll say, okay, is this guy deserve a trick or a treat? And if it's very impressive, then they'll say, wow, this company is gonna evolve into the future. 149 00:11:14,381.42918986 --> 00:11:17,811.42918986 They're making the change we want, let's reward them in a big way. 150 00:11:17,901.42918986 --> 00:11:21,471.42918986 Treat, or if they're just like, this is greenwashing, this is not serious. 151 00:11:21,471.42918986 --> 00:11:24,171.42918986 You don't understand the scope of change that's needed. 152 00:11:24,171.42918986 --> 00:11:24,951.42918986 This is a trick. 153 00:11:25,191.42918986 --> 00:11:26,301.42918986 Let's punish this company. 154 00:11:26,311.42918986 --> 00:11:28,961.42918986 And the idea is most of the time it's a treat. 155 00:11:29,141.42918986 --> 00:11:30,281.42918986 We want it to be a treat. 156 00:11:30,286.42918986 --> 00:11:31,781.42918986 We want everyone to make money. 157 00:11:31,781.42918986 --> 00:11:34,221.42918986 We want the, the climate impact to happen. 158 00:11:34,521.42918986 --> 00:11:35,631.42918986 And that's what we're going for. 159 00:11:35,631.42918986 --> 00:11:43,776.42918986 It's a good faith, let's encourage this company and while we're waiting for them to come up with their proposal, the thing about this fund is so cool is that, fees. 160 00:11:44,166.42918986 --> 00:11:50,346.42918986 So if there's a billion dollars in the fund we're charging 1% on that every year, which is like revenue that comes in. 161 00:11:50,351.42918986 --> 00:11:54,231.42918986 Most Wall Street funds will take that and be like, sweet, let's buy a house in the Hamptons. 162 00:11:54,501.42918986 --> 00:12:03,866.42918986 But instead we're taking it and saying, we actually have a chunk of this money that goes to pay people in the community who want to, do fun promotional stuff. 163 00:12:04,61.42918986 --> 00:12:05,521.42918986 Hey I'm in the high school. 164 00:12:05,521.42918986 --> 00:12:08,341.42918986 We'll do a pizza party in support of the Cheesecake Factory. 165 00:12:08,341.42918986 --> 00:12:09,871.42918986 We need 200 bucks for pizza. 166 00:12:09,881.42918986 --> 00:12:13,366.42918986 And then someone's Hey I got a barn on next to the highway. 167 00:12:13,366.42918986 --> 00:12:16,576.42918986 I'll paint my barn with this fun Cheesecake Factory promotion. 168 00:12:16,906.42918986 --> 00:12:18,586.42918986 I need a thousand bucks for that. 169 00:12:18,586.42918986 --> 00:12:23,734.76252319 And big celebrities, we could say, Hey, for 50 grand I'll record hit song about the Cheesecake Factory. 170 00:12:23,734.76252319 --> 00:12:30,956.42918986 So those opportunities are there and we've got this money so we can budget out this crowdsource promotional campaign. 171 00:12:30,966.42918986 --> 00:12:33,246.42918986 And then we go to the CMO of the Cheesecake Factory. 172 00:12:33,246.42918986 --> 00:12:33,906.42918986 We're like, Hey. 173 00:12:34,296.42918986 --> 00:12:38,196.42918986 This is the coolest thing that's ever happened to your brand. 174 00:12:38,206.42918986 --> 00:12:39,616.42918986 We're about to make you little viral. 175 00:12:39,621.42918986 --> 00:12:40,731.42918986 This is a lightning struck. 176 00:12:40,731.42918986 --> 00:12:44,611.42918986 This is just, where's gonna be so good for you? So just keep that in mind. 177 00:12:44,611.42918986 --> 00:12:46,111.42918986 You better make a really strong proposal. 178 00:12:46,116.42918986 --> 00:12:47,41.42918986 You better earn the treat. 179 00:12:47,41.42918986 --> 00:12:48,301.42918986 So that's how it would go. 180 00:12:48,401.42918986 --> 00:12:53,571.42918986 And then, the hope is that most of the time, let's say five outta six times, they'd come up with something impressive. 181 00:12:53,571.42918986 --> 00:12:54,291.42918986 It's a treat. 182 00:12:54,291.42918986 --> 00:12:55,371.42918986 Everyone makes money. 183 00:12:55,381.42918986 --> 00:12:57,571.42918986 Our 50 million becomes a hundred million. 184 00:12:57,581.42918986 --> 00:12:59,171.42918986 We don't know exactly what that number will be. 185 00:12:59,171.42918986 --> 00:13:00,101.42918986 We don't know if it'll go up. 186 00:13:00,101.42918986 --> 00:13:02,801.42918986 This is an experiment, but in theory it could. 187 00:13:02,811.42918986 --> 00:13:08,841.42918986 And so then if that's happening most of the time, then our fund would be performing very well. 188 00:13:09,181.42918986 --> 00:13:12,409.09585652 And only once in a while, it would be a trick. 189 00:13:12,409.09585652 --> 00:13:14,564.09585652 Once in a while if we said it was a trick. 190 00:13:14,574.09585652 --> 00:13:28,49.09585652 Before we announced that we would sell the stock for a couple weeks, we'd quietly, stop, and then we'd announce it's a trick, and then everyone would be like, oh, you know what? We just have been working on this trying to help you, and now you can't do this one thing. 191 00:13:28,59.09585652 --> 00:13:29,289.09585652 Unbelievable. 192 00:13:29,289.09585652 --> 00:13:41,319.09585652 And so it's just like all this sort of frustration and, and pent up confused anger about climate and capitalism and all, all that emotion, we just send it right at this company, let's destroy the cheese dick factory. 193 00:13:41,379.09585652 --> 00:13:47,274.09585652 But we don't do it in a way of It's not like hateful energy or like you, you're bad people. 194 00:13:47,274.09585652 --> 00:13:48,204.09585652 It's not like that. 195 00:13:48,474.09585652 --> 00:13:52,869.09585652 It's just I'm sorry, we're all gonna go to, Chili's or whatever your competitor is. 196 00:13:52,924.09585652 --> 00:13:54,754.09585652 I'm sorry, you just don't get to exist anymore. 197 00:13:54,934.09585652 --> 00:13:56,554.09585652 Thank you so much for the cheesecake. 198 00:13:56,554.09585652 --> 00:13:57,254.09585652 It was delicious. 199 00:13:57,852.42918986 --> 00:13:58,182.42918986 Goodbye. 200 00:13:58,539.09585652 --> 00:14:11,514.09585652 Anyway, so that's the vision and hopefully if the fund actually does perform really well and this is repeatable, which I believe is possible, Then we just attract more and more capital to the fund and it would just continue to grow and we could start doing it with bigger and bigger companies. 201 00:14:11,514.09585652 --> 00:14:12,334.09585652 And that's the vision. 202 00:14:12,339.09585652 --> 00:14:13,149.09585652 Yeah, definitely. 203 00:14:13,419.09585652 --> 00:14:20,744.09585652 Do you foresee the commission also helping out with the, company and saying Hey, this is a suggestion. 204 00:14:20,744.09585652 --> 00:14:26,954.09585652 We think you should try out these type of things in order to meet your treat criteria. 205 00:14:27,144.09585652 --> 00:14:34,919.09585652 Cuz it sounds a little subjective oh, are you gonna meet the criteria or not? Yeah, I think that's something which I haven't tried to define yet. 206 00:14:34,919.09585652 --> 00:14:37,799.09585652 I think it's something for the commission itself to figure out how to define. 207 00:14:37,804.09585652 --> 00:14:41,289.09585652 But yes, I think that there's gonna be a bunch of different opinions. 208 00:14:41,289.09585652 --> 00:14:51,920.76252319 Like maybe we have a bunch of people who work at, Greenpeace and Nature Conservancy on this commission, maybe we have a, someone who's in Congress or just different perspectives. 209 00:14:51,955.76252319 --> 00:14:57,845.76252319 And so I think that we'll want to give some guidelines to the company and basically say, look, we don't know for sure. 210 00:14:57,845.76252319 --> 00:15:04,365.76252319 There's not like a clear do this or that, and actually there's some legal reasons why we can't have it be like a yes no to a specific thing. 211 00:15:04,375.76252319 --> 00:15:07,985.76252319 There's a longer story about insiders trading, so we have to leave it somewhat vague. 212 00:15:07,995.76252319 --> 00:15:10,30.76252319 And let the company come up. 213 00:15:10,60.76252319 --> 00:15:10,900.76252319 It's their business. 214 00:15:10,930.76252319 --> 00:15:15,500.76252319 They're gonna know if we tried to say, Hey, this is the specific factory you should change. 215 00:15:15,500.76252319 --> 00:15:17,60.76252319 Make this like we don't know. 216 00:15:17,70.76252319 --> 00:15:28,704.09585652 So it's more we'll say, Hey, here's some examples of what other companies have done that most people in our commission feel are exemplary, and here's some examples of things that we find not satisfactory. 217 00:15:28,709.09585652 --> 00:15:32,384.09585652 And then what I think we should do is say we have, three experts. 218 00:15:32,729.09585652 --> 00:15:39,779.09585652 Who are going to advise you call these people, they'll tell you what is the state of the art with, meat supply chain. 219 00:15:39,779.09585652 --> 00:15:54,204.09585652 What's the state of the art with regener ag? Oh, do you want some like reports and like financial analysis of this? Yeah we'll help get those resources so they're really equipped because we want the company, the boardroom conversation when we come knocking needs to be like 90%. 220 00:15:54,214.09585652 --> 00:15:56,644.09585652 What an amazing opportunity. 221 00:15:56,644.09585652 --> 00:15:58,534.09585652 This just is the jackpot. 222 00:15:58,534.09585652 --> 00:16:05,184.09585652 We're like this mediocre company and this is what we've been waiting for to change the game and 10% fear, 10%. 223 00:16:05,184.09585652 --> 00:16:06,864.09585652 If we don't do this, they're gonna destroy us. 224 00:16:07,254.09585652 --> 00:16:12,189.09585652 But like it needs to really hit as an opportunity it's a fine line to walk, but that's what I'm trying to accomplish. 225 00:16:12,189.09585652 --> 00:16:21,944.09585652 I think it's a good question of like how much structure do we give them about what's gonna be acceptable, but I think we have to leave it a little bit vague because it's also up to the vote. 226 00:16:21,974.09585652 --> 00:16:22,904.09585652 We don't know in advance. 227 00:16:22,904.09585652 --> 00:16:25,454.09585652 We gotta hear what their proposal is and see if it impresses people. 228 00:16:25,454.09585652 --> 00:16:26,904.09585652 I think I agree with that. 229 00:16:26,904.09585652 --> 00:16:31,839.09585652 I can see your point there because legally you can't, make those kind of determinations. 230 00:16:31,844.09585652 --> 00:16:32,924.09585652 This is what you have to do. 231 00:16:33,194.09585652 --> 00:16:41,459.0958565 But I also see you do want to support them at the end of the day You want it to be a treat, like you want the company to win, you want you guys to win. 232 00:16:41,639.0958565 --> 00:16:45,579.0958565 Like it, it's a win-win all around if they're willing to put in the work. 233 00:16:45,579.0958565 --> 00:16:52,599.0958565 And so it's just at that point, you gotta make sure that, they're also successful too because I think a lot of things that I've. 234 00:16:52,944.0958565 --> 00:16:58,804.0958565 Seen in the past, people, really shaming companies and being like, oh, you're greenwashing and all this stuff. 235 00:16:58,814.0958565 --> 00:17:03,639.0958565 And I don't always believe that, companies are out there we're gonna, greenwash people. 236 00:17:03,859.0958565 --> 00:17:06,199.0958565 I don't think like people are inherently evil. 237 00:17:06,199.0958565 --> 00:17:07,789.0958565 I think they come from a good place. 238 00:17:07,799.0958565 --> 00:17:10,139.0958565 I think a lot of people just don't know. 239 00:17:10,139.0958565 --> 00:17:17,469.0958565 Their CEO plops something on their desk and they say, okay, I have to, decrease. 240 00:17:17,479.0958565 --> 00:17:19,789.0958565 Such and such by this period. 241 00:17:20,19.0958565 --> 00:17:25,969.0958565 And I go online and I hear a lot of people talking about how negative plastic is. 242 00:17:25,974.0958565 --> 00:17:27,249.0958565 And, that's a big thing. 243 00:17:27,429.0958565 --> 00:17:35,769.0958565 So let me, create a sustainability initiative about, replacing our plastic bottles with boxed water or something like that, and oh, we'll call that a win. 244 00:17:35,779.0958565 --> 00:17:41,904.0958565 And it's I don't think they were trying to, greenwash, I don't think they were trying to make a bad decision. 245 00:17:41,934.0958565 --> 00:17:48,24.0958565 They were coming from a good place, but they didn't really think long term or they just didn't have the knowledge. 246 00:17:48,24.0958565 --> 00:17:55,659.0958565 They didn't have the resources to go out there and find out all the things because maybe they weren't trained in, sustainability for 20 years. 247 00:17:55,659.0958565 --> 00:17:58,964.0958565 Maybe they just came into the position because the CEO was like, Hey. 248 00:17:58,974.0958565 --> 00:18:02,844.0958565 You wanna try this c s o thing? Like you're barely pretty big into the environment. 249 00:18:02,874.0958565 --> 00:18:03,804.0958565 Like you want to try it. 250 00:18:03,804.0958565 --> 00:18:07,734.0958565 So I think a lot of people they really attack companies and call it greenwashing. 251 00:18:07,734.0958565 --> 00:18:11,629.0958565 I think there's probably a percentage of companies that, do it intentionally. 252 00:18:11,939.0958565 --> 00:18:17,329.0958565 Not intentionally, but try to like, say oh, we're gonna do all this great stuff and then just not do it right. 253 00:18:17,509.0958565 --> 00:18:19,144.0958565 And say oh, example, more likely. 254 00:18:19,149.0958565 --> 00:18:19,719.0958565 Exactly. 255 00:18:19,719.0958565 --> 00:18:31,39.0958565 But I think there's a lot of companies, the majority of companies who might be getting called down on this green washing are just really coming from a place of poor knowledge and poor understanding of the. 256 00:18:31,94.0958565 --> 00:18:35,264.0958565 Entire impact that they're causing when they're doing something. 257 00:18:35,544.0958565 --> 00:18:36,954.0958565 And really understanding that. 258 00:18:36,954.0958565 --> 00:18:41,454.0958565 So I think that's, a good thing to include about, you're trying to help these companies too. 259 00:18:41,459.0958565 --> 00:18:45,284.0958565 You're just not gonna sit there and say okay, we're gonna promote you and you better do. 260 00:18:45,454.0958565 --> 00:18:46,834.0958565 But I'm not gonna help you. 261 00:18:46,839.0958565 --> 00:18:47,139.0958565 Yeah. 262 00:18:47,139.0958565 --> 00:18:48,759.0958565 And I think there's a really important. 263 00:18:48,769.0958565 --> 00:18:50,659.0958565 Public education component to this. 264 00:18:50,689.0958565 --> 00:19:00,989.0958565 If we're able to say, Hey, there's a agricultural technique called multip grazing and it involves this and this is what happens with the roots of grass and most people haven't heard of that. 265 00:19:01,199.0958565 --> 00:19:06,349.0958565 But if we're like, Hey, we've got this viral campaign and we've got all these viral videos and celebrities and. 266 00:19:06,359.0958565 --> 00:19:14,364.0958565 And now, everyone on the Wall Street traders are watching our live stream to be like, what's gonna happen? And they're learning about this stuff, right? That sort of moves the norm. 267 00:19:14,544.0958565 --> 00:19:21,175.7625232 And it says to, the McDonald's middle manager who wasn't paying attention to this, now they learn about it. 268 00:19:21,175.7625232 --> 00:19:22,555.7625232 Like, Oh, this is a thing. 269 00:19:22,675.7625232 --> 00:19:24,715.7625232 This is actually a thing that's happening in our industry. 270 00:19:24,715.7625232 --> 00:19:30,960.7625232 Maybe I should Have a meeting about this or learn about it, right? So that's a really cool public education component. 271 00:19:30,960.7625232 --> 00:19:36,580.7625232 And it also would hopefully mean that the million people, all of our customers of these companies, they're learning about it. 272 00:19:36,580.7625232 --> 00:19:39,965.7625232 So maybe there you start to ask questions and so that's a cool angle. 273 00:19:39,965.7625232 --> 00:19:43,275.7625232 But yeah, I think the educational piece is a important part. 274 00:19:43,280.7625232 --> 00:19:44,895.7625232 And then there's like the power piece. 275 00:19:44,895.7625232 --> 00:19:47,155.7625232 The other thing that I think happens is when. 276 00:19:47,165.7625232 --> 00:19:51,122.4291899 People and activists when we attack companies. 277 00:19:51,127.4291899 --> 00:20:02,747.4291899 To your point, partially it's cause they're not doing enough cuz they don't know, sometimes they're not doing enough because it's so complex and sometimes they actually just don't have the power because you're like, cool, you're the VP of sustainability. 278 00:20:03,320.7625232 --> 00:20:05,585.7625232 But you have to get permission from the ceo. 279 00:20:05,705.7625232 --> 00:20:10,565.7625232 And the CEO needs permission from the board, and the board needs permission from the shareholders. 280 00:20:10,565.7625232 --> 00:20:14,635.7625232 And the shareholders need permission from the Goldman Sachs financial executive. 281 00:20:14,995.7625232 --> 00:20:20,845.7625232 And that person needs permission from the bureaucracy of it, the spreadsheet, and that person needs permission from the data. 282 00:20:20,845.7625232 --> 00:20:26,745.7625232 It's just like where, so it is pretty systemic and so that's why I've just come to feel it's very unproductive to. 283 00:20:27,25.7625232 --> 00:20:28,975.7625232 Dunk on these companies and attack them. 284 00:20:28,975.7625232 --> 00:20:40,25.7625232 Whereas what I think we're doing is okay, we're gonna actually simultaneously impact the data and the spreadsheets and the shareholders and the, wall Street people and the board's gonna hear about it. 285 00:20:40,25.7625232 --> 00:20:43,546.7625232 And so it's like we can move all of that at once if we get enough people involved with that. 286 00:20:43,551.7625232 --> 00:20:44,241.7625232 Yeah, definitely. 287 00:20:44,241.7625232 --> 00:20:51,276.7625232 If you've got the whole backing of all of that moving together, it all lifts, right? It all boots rise with the sea rising. 288 00:20:51,276.7625232 --> 00:20:52,331.7625232 So I agree with that. 289 00:20:52,331.7625232 --> 00:20:52,421.7625232 Yeah. 290 00:20:52,421.7625232 --> 00:21:00,786.7625232 I think you've got, a way to impact it also, that everybody's seeing that and having seen that impact on their little side of things. 291 00:21:00,946.7625232 --> 00:21:04,766.7625232 Can really start, moving some of this, the bureaucracy and all the inside. 292 00:21:05,36.7625232 --> 00:21:06,266.7625232 And stuff that has to go on. 293 00:21:06,266.7625232 --> 00:21:11,956.7625232 You can start actually moving it forward, which is what we need to happen for these stuff to happen. 294 00:21:11,956.7625232 --> 00:21:18,646.7625232 We need stuff to actually start happening a lot faster than it is, and we don't have time to just, wait around. 295 00:21:18,696.7625232 --> 00:21:19,836.7625232 it really needs to happen now. 296 00:21:19,836.7625232 --> 00:21:24,426.7625232 So I think, this can spur that action, which is super important. 297 00:21:24,436.7625232 --> 00:21:27,916.7625232 Yeah, it's super interesting to imagine right now, most of the climate people are. 298 00:21:28,341.7625232 --> 00:21:34,141.7625232 You and I were in the green business world, but most people are like, cool, we're just gonna wait for Congress to pass the law to make the companies do it. 299 00:21:34,151.7625232 --> 00:21:34,506.7625232 It's cool. 300 00:21:34,506.7625232 --> 00:21:36,751.7625232 That'll be another, decade of like just waiting. 301 00:21:36,931.7625232 --> 00:21:46,186.7625232 But like something like this where at feels much more yeah, but here we're just, okay, we're gonna go in, we're gonna directly make the companies do something without needing the government involved. 302 00:21:46,286.7625232 --> 00:21:48,836.7625232 That's super empowering and exciting. 303 00:21:48,886.7625232 --> 00:21:50,386.7625232 So I really wanna prove that it works. 304 00:21:50,396.7625232 --> 00:21:51,166.7625232 Yeah definitely. 305 00:21:51,166.7625232 --> 00:21:58,371.7625232 Where do you see the timeline are you looking at to see a test, prototype or something, go live. 306 00:21:58,381.7625232 --> 00:21:59,551.7625232 That's a good question. 307 00:21:59,551.7625232 --> 00:22:06,471.7625232 I'm definitely gonna be a bit improvisational about this cuz this is the type of thing where overnight it could get big and there's a bunch of unknowns. 308 00:22:06,471.7625232 --> 00:22:11,66.7625232 But in general, the next thing that I've got my eye on is I wanna make some noise about this. 309 00:22:11,156.7625232 --> 00:22:13,306.7625232 We have a website trick or treat.co 310 00:22:13,886.7625232 --> 00:22:26,271.7625232 and on the website you can fill in if we launched this fund, would you hypothetically invest in it? Would you go on, Robinhood or Fidelity and buy some shares in this etf? How much would you do? So anyone could just go be here's my email address. 311 00:22:26,271.7625232 --> 00:22:29,205.0958565 I'd put in a hundred bucks, or I'd put in $25,000. 312 00:22:29,805.0958565 --> 00:22:32,355.0958565 And we have a counter on the website. 313 00:22:32,365.0958565 --> 00:22:36,685.0958565 And that counter, I think it's up to $730,000 or something. 314 00:22:36,695.0958565 --> 00:22:42,815.0958565 And I need that counter to get to 50 million because that's the minimum where this whole model will work. 315 00:22:42,825.0958565 --> 00:22:46,15.0958565 And so for now, I'm working on some promotional ideas. 316 00:22:46,405.0958565 --> 00:22:51,90.0958565 Maybe it won't be necessary because this episode will go so viral that'll just take care of it. 317 00:22:51,100.0958565 --> 00:22:52,460.0958565 But oh yes, definitely. 318 00:22:52,760.0958565 --> 00:22:54,170.0958565 We'll take you two by storm. 319 00:22:54,180.0958565 --> 00:22:57,470.0958565 Yeah, if you could maybe just take it to a hundred million, that's even better than 50. 320 00:22:57,525.0958565 --> 00:22:57,735.0958565 Okay. 321 00:22:57,740.0958565 --> 00:23:06,25.0958565 So we want to get that proof that people are in, and if we stall out, hey, we've got like 20 million or 30 million, but it stalls out. 322 00:23:06,340.0958565 --> 00:23:16,505.0958565 Then I think it might make sense for us to explore doing some kind of pilot where we don't even have a fund yet, but we could experiment, see if we can all coordinate to move a stock price or something. 323 00:23:16,540.0958565 --> 00:23:17,50.0958565 But. 324 00:23:17,60.0958565 --> 00:23:27,400.0958565 Ideally we can without needing to do that, just go ahead, get to the 50 million mark, in which case we raise money, we, pay the lawyers, we create the fund, and we actually do it for real. 325 00:23:27,400.0958565 --> 00:23:30,620.0958565 I'm not gonna predict how long this will take, but hopefully we're in a hurry. 326 00:23:30,650.0958565 --> 00:23:31,480.0958565 So let's go. 327 00:23:31,490.0958565 --> 00:23:37,268.4291899 Yeah, think that gives us good, milestones that you're looking to achieve so that you can, reach, launch day. 328 00:23:37,278.4291899 --> 00:23:38,448.4291899 So that'll be awesome. 329 00:23:38,838.4291899 --> 00:23:46,443.4291899 And to dive more into you, what was your background and your motivation for, creating trick or treat? My motivation? Yeah. 330 00:23:46,493.4291899 --> 00:23:51,143.4291899 There's this is an interesting part of a pattern that's been going on in my life and career. 331 00:23:51,188.4291899 --> 00:23:55,168.4291899 In college I became pretty impact focused activisty kind of person. 332 00:23:55,178.4291899 --> 00:23:59,948.4291899 Shortly thereafter I started a global social movement called Carrot Mob. 333 00:24:00,118.4291899 --> 00:24:05,393.4291899 And Carrot Mob was about people voting with their money and it was similar. 334 00:24:05,393.4291899 --> 00:24:13,753.4291899 Basically, in 2008, I went to 23 liquor stores in the Mission District of San Francisco and I said, Hey, I'm gonna bring hundreds of people to one liquor store. 335 00:24:13,963.4291899 --> 00:24:15,133.4291899 We're gonna buy everything you got. 336 00:24:15,143.4291899 --> 00:24:19,953.4291899 If you wanna be that liquor store, demonstrate to me that you're the most environmentally committed liquor store in this neighborhood. 337 00:24:19,953.4291899 --> 00:24:31,221.7625232 So what percentage of this hypothetical revenue that we would all show up and spend, would you be willing to invest in energy efficiency upgrades and so on? And so there was a bidding war and this one store had the best bid. 338 00:24:31,281.7625232 --> 00:24:33,351.7625232 I brought hundreds of people to this store. 339 00:24:33,741.7625232 --> 00:24:37,561.7625232 We just spent all this money at this liquor store land around the block for three hours. 340 00:24:37,561.7625232 --> 00:24:39,361.7625232 We tripled the biggest sales in history. 341 00:24:39,416.7625232 --> 00:24:40,706.7625232 And they made all these changes. 342 00:24:40,706.7625232 --> 00:24:43,106.7625232 They changed their like lighting system and their refrigeration. 343 00:24:43,785.0958565 --> 00:24:45,820.0958565 And it made a video and it went viral. 344 00:24:46,120.0958565 --> 00:24:49,420.0958565 And then this is called carrot mob because we use the carrot instead of the stick. 345 00:24:49,430.0958565 --> 00:24:49,880.0958565 And. 346 00:24:49,890.0958565 --> 00:24:55,450.0958565 For the next seven years, there's this movement, there's over 200 campaigns in 20 plus countries. 347 00:24:55,510.0958565 --> 00:25:01,970.0958565 People in Helsinki and Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur and South Carolina and Mexico City, all these places doing this. 348 00:25:01,975.0958565 --> 00:25:10,25.0958565 And so it was a bit of a long story, but basically I had this whole thing of we're gonna vote with our money and change businesses to be sustainable with our sales. 349 00:25:10,35.0958565 --> 00:25:12,95.0958565 And now I'm doing the same thing. 350 00:25:12,105.0958565 --> 00:25:16,220.0958565 Except it's with the stock market, it's like we're gonna reward, right? Investing and now there's this stick. 351 00:25:16,430.0958565 --> 00:25:18,20.0958565 Before it was only positive. 352 00:25:18,25.0958565 --> 00:25:19,555.0958565 There was only carrot, not stick. 353 00:25:19,585.0958565 --> 00:25:21,535.0958565 And now we're doing, there's trick and treat. 354 00:25:21,535.0958565 --> 00:25:24,485.0958565 So I guess things have escalated with the climate crisis. 355 00:25:24,775.0958565 --> 00:25:26,155.0958565 I guess we have to have that part now. 356 00:25:26,165.0958565 --> 00:25:28,215.0958565 But anyway, so that's a big piece of it. 357 00:25:28,215.0958565 --> 00:25:32,435.0958565 And I did another startup along the way that was building an app for people to. 358 00:25:32,445.0958565 --> 00:25:36,220.0958565 Vote with their money when they make purchases and vote for what they want the business to do. 359 00:25:36,220.0958565 --> 00:25:40,400.0958565 So you unite sort of values driven feedback for businesses with spending data. 360 00:25:40,400.0958565 --> 00:25:44,315.0958565 And anyway, so this is like a theme of what I've worked on my whole career. 361 00:25:44,325.0958565 --> 00:25:45,150.0958565 Yeah, that's fun. 362 00:25:45,420.0958565 --> 00:25:54,430.0958565 That's awesome that you were able to do that for that liquor store and just see that, change happen for them and they, actually went out and, implemented that change and they're like, Hey yeah this worked. 363 00:25:54,485.0958565 --> 00:25:54,965.0958565 Let's do it. 364 00:25:55,105.0958565 --> 00:25:59,890.0958565 And you mentioned that for trick or treat, you're trying to reach that 50 million mark. 365 00:26:00,80.0958565 --> 00:26:06,345.0958565 And then you're also looking just to bring out some more influencers and really get into this space with the marketing side of things. 366 00:26:06,635.0958565 --> 00:26:13,810.0958565 Do you have any other, goals that you're looking to achieve here coming up soon? Right now the strategy I'm working on is like a short form video strategy. 367 00:26:13,815.0958565 --> 00:26:14,370.0958565 Like I've. 368 00:26:14,425.0958565 --> 00:26:23,605.0958565 Been playing with TikTok and Instagram reels and stuff like that yeah, so I think hopefully you guys should all follow us and soon enough we'll start dropping some videos that might help with growth. 369 00:26:23,610.0958565 --> 00:26:32,625.0958565 I think there's interestingly two pieces here, right? Part of what we need is 50 million lined up, and part of what we need is grassroots excitement and, If we had 50 million, we could launch the fund. 370 00:26:32,715.0958565 --> 00:26:41,230.0958565 And so there's a part of me that's oh, should I just go to all my rich friends and should I go to try to get, millionaires and billionaires to gimme 50 million? That would help. 371 00:26:41,235.0958565 --> 00:26:48,766.7625232 However, it doesn't prove that we can have a grassroots movement that would change a brand, right? We need to prove. 372 00:26:48,776.7625232 --> 00:26:57,681.7625232 This part first, we need to prove that we can get people excited so that if we all just agree to, that we love cheesecake, bacteria that we hate, that, that that's credible. 373 00:26:57,981.7625232 --> 00:26:59,61.7625232 So that's the hard part. 374 00:26:59,161.7625232 --> 00:27:08,46.7625232 So I think there's, getting the number up to 50 million is part of it, but related to just getting more people to just put in my email and say, I'm excited and more people to follow us on social. 375 00:27:08,56.7625232 --> 00:27:25,636.7625232 And that's the thing I wanna feel right now I have a feeling of There are a small number of people who are super passionate about this, and that is super encouraging because I can feel the passion and it's real, but I need to get to the point where I look at this network and it's oh, we got a tiger by the tail. 376 00:27:25,666.7625232 --> 00:27:27,46.7625232 This is just electric. 377 00:27:27,56.7625232 --> 00:27:29,776.7625232 It's not just a small group of people like, this is going place. 378 00:27:29,986.7625232 --> 00:27:31,366.7625232 That's what I want to feel. 379 00:27:31,756.7625232 --> 00:27:38,121.7625232 And I have my things I'm gonna try to do to make that happen, right? I'm gonna try to make funny videos and this, but it's not really about me. 380 00:27:38,121.7625232 --> 00:27:49,856.7625232 It's just like, cool, here's the idea and it's about, you the people listening and watching and it's are you gonna put your email in the thing? Are you gonna follow us? And are you going to put it on the group shot? Check this out. 381 00:27:49,976.7625232 --> 00:27:53,286.7625232 And it's we'll see if it pops, but that's your job, not mine. 382 00:27:53,286.7625232 --> 00:27:53,287.7625232 Own. 383 00:27:53,297.7625232 --> 00:27:58,158.7625232 And by you, anyone who's hearing this, Anybody who's listening and is interested in, supporting this. 384 00:27:58,347.7625232 --> 00:27:58,827.7625232 Definitely. 385 00:27:58,837.7625232 --> 00:28:03,432.7625232 And what are you currently learning right now? I guess the first phase was learning. 386 00:28:03,756.0958565 --> 00:28:07,596.0958565 Law, finance, stock market, operational minutia. 387 00:28:07,606.0958565 --> 00:28:14,676.0958565 Now I feel like I'm learning like TikTok and just as like the art of short form video, it's that's where my focus is at the moment. 388 00:28:14,676.0958565 --> 00:28:17,316.0958565 I'm like writing scripts and like praying to shoot stuff. 389 00:28:17,316.0958565 --> 00:28:21,222.0958565 So yeah, I've done some video stuff in the past, but it's a different thing this short form stuff. 390 00:28:21,232.0958565 --> 00:28:21,592.0958565 Yeah. 391 00:28:21,622.0958565 --> 00:28:23,732.0958565 But I feel like, yeah short form is very interesting. 392 00:28:23,742.0958565 --> 00:28:24,32.0958565 Yeah. 393 00:28:24,322.0958565 --> 00:28:27,337.0958565 Have you done much of that social media? I just mostly do long forms. 394 00:28:27,342.0958565 --> 00:28:33,477.0958565 I don't, because it's mostly podcasting and I do a, short clip, but, I don't really try to optimize it for that. 395 00:28:33,707.0958565 --> 00:28:42,262.0958565 But yeah, short shorts is a different world cuz you know, you have to, get people's attention really quickly and then, have some type of, way of. 396 00:28:42,577.0958565 --> 00:28:47,917.0958565 Holding them for a little bit, just a little bit of time, but getting them engaged enough so that they come and watch the next thing. 397 00:28:48,277.0958565 --> 00:28:49,322.0958565 So it's a different world. 398 00:28:49,442.0958565 --> 00:28:54,768.0958565 And like You could tell I've so enjoyed this conversation because the idea has really had room to breathe. 399 00:28:54,778.0958565 --> 00:28:56,463.0958565 Like this is long form is great. 400 00:28:56,493.0958565 --> 00:28:58,697.0958565 I'm like, oh we've talked about different angles on it. 401 00:28:58,697.0958565 --> 00:29:02,942.0958565 There's you don't get it in the first two minutes, but then by the five minutes you're like, oh I see it now. 402 00:29:03,72.0958565 --> 00:29:09,468.7625232 And so like, how do I put that in a 92nd video? That's some of the art, so I'm working on some ways to do that. 403 00:29:09,468.7625232 --> 00:29:09,998.7625232 Yeah, definitely. 404 00:29:09,998.7625232 --> 00:29:11,208.7625232 I think, but I think it's a process. 405 00:29:11,208.7625232 --> 00:29:14,788.7625232 It's give people a little tidbit each time and over time they start to get it. 406 00:29:14,798.7625232 --> 00:29:15,158.7625232 But yeah. 407 00:29:15,168.7625232 --> 00:29:22,893.7625232 Yeah, I think it was mark Twain, he wrote, he said I couldn't write something short, so I wrote a long essay instead, or something like that. 408 00:29:22,898.7625232 --> 00:29:25,774.7625232 He was like, I couldn't write only a page, so I wrote 10 or something like that. 409 00:29:25,834.7625232 --> 00:29:35,599.7625232 It was like, it's what? But yeah, but it's because of that idea, being concise, And being effective can be difficult when, you know you're trying to explain something complex. 410 00:29:35,629.7625232 --> 00:29:39,169.7625232 And just to wrap it up here, there's a couple last questions. 411 00:29:39,389.7625232 --> 00:30:01,454.7625232 What is one tip that you would give any ecopreneur who is here on the podcast listening to this? What is one tip that you would give them for either growing their green business or getting started with their green business? I think that the more impact oriented you are, the more my tip is focused on business model because I came in my career early on just being like, wow, this is exciting. 412 00:30:01,459.7625232 --> 00:30:07,734.7625232 People are into it and like I'm into it and it's got, hypothetical potential, but in not figuring out the business model. 413 00:30:07,734.7625232 --> 00:30:12,629.7625232 And I just have hit so many like brick walls because, I just thought that would fall into place later. 414 00:30:12,634.7625232 --> 00:30:22,198.0958565 And early on I just I wasn't, in the beginning of my career, I didn't fall in love with the idea of like, how can I design a business? That's not why I'm here. 415 00:30:22,198.0958565 --> 00:30:24,868.0958565 I'm here to do this other cool stuff or maybe make a cool product. 416 00:30:24,878.0958565 --> 00:30:28,418.0958565 And so I think that if that's you, you should. 417 00:30:28,428.0958565 --> 00:30:34,338.0958565 Really fall in love with the idea that you're making a business as a machine and it's got all these parts and make that work. 418 00:30:34,578.0958565 --> 00:30:43,153.0958565 And just assume hypothetically, that there was no impact, that no one wanted to do anything because of good reasons that everyone is like greedy, terrible people. 419 00:30:43,614.7625232 --> 00:30:48,491.4291899 And would you have something that works in that situation? Make sure the answer is yes. 420 00:30:48,501.4291899 --> 00:30:56,686.4291899 And then you actually do have all this good impact stuff and great motivated and good story and so then that just adds onto it and like supercharges is what you're doing. 421 00:30:56,696.4291899 --> 00:30:58,261.4291899 And so I guess that's my advice. 422 00:30:58,266.4291899 --> 00:31:04,676.4291899 And now actually if you look at Trick or Treat it's interesting because like our whole thing is governed by radical climate impact activists and stuff. 423 00:31:04,686.4291899 --> 00:31:07,571.4291899 But this would totally work if no one cared about climate. 424 00:31:07,626.4291899 --> 00:31:14,561.4291899 If everyone was evil, people are like, I wanna invest in this fund because we will use force to move, company values and I'll make money. 425 00:31:14,561.4291899 --> 00:31:18,111.4291899 And then the company is like, yeah, we'll do whatever they say cuz we're gonna make money. 426 00:31:18,111.4291899 --> 00:31:19,671.4291899 And like climate was even part of it. 427 00:31:19,681.4291899 --> 00:31:20,191.4291899 This would work. 428 00:31:20,401.4291899 --> 00:31:22,966.4291899 So maybe that's a signal of like, how I got here. 429 00:31:22,971.4291899 --> 00:31:26,271.4291899 But like the magic, like that it would work and it would have no soul. 430 00:31:26,281.4291899 --> 00:31:29,16.4291899 And Because we're all like, we care. 431 00:31:29,26.4291899 --> 00:31:30,441.4291899 Then it's gonna have soul. 432 00:31:30,441.4291899 --> 00:31:31,771.4291899 And so that is just that's magic. 433 00:31:31,826.4291899 --> 00:31:33,986.4291899 But yeah, that foundational business model, that's my advice. 434 00:31:33,996.4291899 --> 00:31:44,538.0958565 Yeah, can't run a company off of impact and passion, So you have to make sure that that business model is there, but when you combine both of them, that's when the magic happens. 435 00:31:44,543.0958565 --> 00:31:44,753.0958565 Totally. 436 00:31:44,753.0958565 --> 00:31:44,903.0958565 Yeah. 437 00:31:44,903.0958565 --> 00:31:46,73.0958565 I completely agree with you. 438 00:31:46,128.0958565 --> 00:31:53,408.0958565 And if anybody wants to find out more about you, wants to get in touch with you, what is the best way for them to get in touch? Yes. 439 00:31:53,408.0958565 --> 00:31:56,598.0958565 So our website is trick or treat.co. 440 00:31:57,181.4291899 --> 00:32:01,921.4291899 And when you get there, I would love for you to drop your email and say you'd invest. 441 00:32:01,931.4291899 --> 00:32:04,91.4291899 A hundred bucks or whatever it is. 442 00:32:04,96.4291899 --> 00:32:05,986.4291899 I would love for you to share it with friends. 443 00:32:05,986.4291899 --> 00:32:13,76.4291899 And we also have a members only Some people are paying, 10 bucks a month to be in our private community where we're discussing a lot of this stuff. 444 00:32:13,91.4291899 --> 00:32:13,861.4291899 And then social media. 445 00:32:14,283.0958565 --> 00:32:19,59.7625232 So our handle, this is for Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, it's all the same name. 446 00:32:19,69.7625232 --> 00:32:26,339.7625232 It's trick or treat, but there's three Ts in trick or treat and just replace each of the Ts with the number seven. 447 00:32:26,349.7625232 --> 00:32:29,289.7625232 It kinda looks like a T, it's a trick or treat with sevens instead of Ts. 448 00:32:29,299.7625232 --> 00:32:30,349.7625232 So follow us on Gotcha. 449 00:32:30,639.7625232 --> 00:32:31,714.7625232 Instagram and all that. 450 00:32:31,824.7625232 --> 00:32:32,964.7625232 Yeah, and you can totally message me. 451 00:32:32,964.7625232 --> 00:32:34,554.7625232 Messages me there as well. 452 00:32:34,564.7625232 --> 00:32:35,104.7625232 Sweet. 453 00:32:35,164.7625232 --> 00:32:35,794.7625232 Sounds great. 454 00:32:35,844.7625232 --> 00:32:39,384.7625232 Thank you so much Brent, for coming onto the Green Business Impact Podcast. 455 00:32:39,384.7625232 --> 00:32:52,659.7625232 It was so much fun having you on the show and being able to talk about trick or treat and how you guys are looking to, really take the climate movement and just apply finance to it and just bring it all together and just speed everything forward. 456 00:32:52,659.7625232 --> 00:32:55,179.7625232 So thank you so much for coming on the show. 457 00:32:55,189.7625232 --> 00:32:55,639.7625232 Thanks, bill. 458 00:32:55,639.7625232 --> 00:32:56,539.7625232 I really enjoyed that.