July 4, 2024 • 36 mins
Welcome to the latest episode of Grow's program training and resource podcast, hosted by Daryl and Dave. In this episode, we delve into the significance of leadership roles within the Grow community. As a largely volunteer-driven organization, Grow relies on members stepping up to various roles to keep the group dynamic and supportive.
Daryl and Dave discuss the importance of roles such as the organizer and recorder, highlighting how these positions not only benefit the group but also significantly contribute to the personal development and mental health recovery of the individuals who take them on. They emphasize the concept of lived experience leadership, where members use their own recovery journey to help others.
The hosts explore the challenges and rewards of stepping into a leadership role, supported by research that shows higher levels of well-being among those who participate actively. They also touch on the broader opportunities within Grow, such as regional and branch program teams, offering members a chance to contribute at different levels.
Throughout the episode, Daryl and Dave share personal anecdotes and practical advice on how to encourage participation and support new leaders in their journey. Tune in to learn how taking on a role in Grow can be a transformative experience, both for the individual and the community.
For more information on Grow Groups, mental health resources, or to make a donation, please visit grow.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, and welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast for all our
Grow leaders and friends.
Here, you'll find all sorts of in-depth discussions and tips on a wide range
of topics, from personal leadership development in mental health recovery to
running your Grow group effectively.
(00:21):
Now here's your hosts, Daryl and Dave.
Well, welcome to the podcast today, Dave, or the training video,
whichever you're consuming.
Thanks, mate. Good to be here. Good to have you back, as always.
Just, even though it's midwinter and bitterly cold in Australia,
(00:44):
we just wanted to check in about a couple of little things things in relation
to grow and specifically in the grow roles in the organization so,
for those that are listening or fairly new obviously you
might be aware that in any given group there's
(01:05):
a role of the organizer of the group which is somebody who's attending the group
and the role of the recorder of the group which is someone who's also attending
that group and then there's a bunch
of other roles in the organisation for people who are members of GROW.
Yeah. So not for staff people or necessarily external people but for the members
(01:32):
of the groups themselves. Yeah.
We're essentially, we've got some staff, you know, but mostly we're a volunteer organisation.
Organization you know so we're forever rebuilding
and and inviting people to join the groups but
we're also need to be inviting people to you know
step up into roles to you know keep keep the organization growing and developing
(01:55):
and moving forward keep it alive basically you know yeah yeah so we're not while
they're voluntary roles we're not asking volunteers to come in and spend their time necessarily.
It's really for the members, by the members.
There's a real particular few reasons we do that. Mm-hmm.
(02:17):
It might be a bit confusing if you haven't been involved with Grow very long,
but there's a few reasons we do that very directly and deliberately,
and we call them leadership roles.
Roles so as a person comes into the organization through a weekly grow meeting
they come in to the meeting primarily i would say 99.9 of the time they're coming in because their,
(02:42):
life is not traveling the way they want and they feel a bit
overwhelmed they've got some particular mental health issue that's you know
really been something that they've perhaps carried a long time and to come into
a group that meets every week with supportive people who are also working on
their mental health and creating this lovely support network,
(03:05):
but beyond just support, actually doing some work and making some personal change is amazing.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and to keep that, you know, keep the momentum going,
the development of GROW and the groups,
groups we need people to you know step up
into certain roles at times and leadership roles
(03:27):
to you know administer the groups to
look after the groups because they're mostly there then they're looked
after by volunteers you know yeah and
and who better to who better to help
me if i'm attending a group you know
in this non-clinical environment we're talking me yeah who better to help me
(03:49):
than somebody that's walked the path i'm walking yeah or is still on the journey
yeah so it's not a doctor it's not an expert it's not even a staff member.
Necessarily but it's someone that's actually taking that journey and and doing
it and making changes so that's who i want to hear from yeah and you know it
(04:15):
doesn't mean any of those other the things that are not valid or necessary,
they're completely necessary in all different facets of our recovery journeys and our mental health.
But in our GROW meetings, in what we call peer-to-peer support,
we want to hear from peers and peers who have done the work or are doing the work.
(04:38):
And that's how we create that environment. And so that lived experience leadership,
which you and I have started getting onto that term a bit more,
in terms of explaining what Grow's been doing from day one,
is people using that lived experience to help others through the Grow program.
(05:00):
So we call these leadership roles. Yes.
So there's a couple of sides to it, isn't there? There's the side where me as
a member sees Dave, the leader in the group,
who shares his testimony of how he recovered, perhaps how unwell he was,
what he did in Grow, and now he's the organiser or the recorder of the group, et cetera.
(05:26):
But what about, what does it do for you, the leader in the group?
Mm-hmm yeah well there's there's huge benefits to taking on a leadership role
you know and I think in particular we're talking about the roles within the
grow group to start with to start with the grow meaning like the role of recorder
and the role of group organizer.
(05:47):
And and they because they're they're not you know those roles are temporary you know like,
we usually you might be you might be in the role of organizer for up to two
years you know The ideal is that someone else will develop and grow and step
up into that role or will be encouraged to take on that role of organiser at a time.
(06:10):
We don't have one person who becomes
a group organiser and stays a group organiser for five, 10, 15 years.
We generally encourage other people to step up and take on the roles because
then there's, you know, a lot of benefit in taking on the roles,
(06:33):
especially for our well-being and our, you know, mental health.
If you're the person taking it on or stepping up into that role. Yeah.
I mean, objectively, there was a lot of research done about,
you know, people who take on leadership roles by Lizzie Finn in Western Australia some years back.
(06:54):
And, you know, that research indicated that taking on leadership roles,
is associated with higher levels of well-being. She even talked about a reduction
of the use of, you know, medication hospitalisation, you know,
which is a bit of an indicator of, you know, how well we're travelling.
It's not the main goal, but certainly it's part of what she found out in her studies.
(07:15):
And, you know, she went around Australia and studied, you know,
900 different people who took on leadership roles, and they certainly were doing
better than people who didn't take on the roles.
So there's a personal benefit in stepping up and taking on the role of organiser.
(07:35):
Yeah, so, you know, and there's other personal benefits we're going to get out of it too, you know.
Well, it's going to help us, it helps us with our confidence.
Well, it helps us understand the organisation better because once we get involved
in becoming an organiser,
we're able to go to the organiser and recorders meetings and there's a lot of
good training that goes on there and support.
(07:56):
We're never really left with the baby, so to speak, there's always a support
network behind these leadership roles too.
Especially the bi-monthly organisers and recorders meeting where you get a lot of support.
Also, the organisation, we have elections every year. They're an elected role.
(08:16):
After the elections, we provide training for the new organisers and recorders.
You know so there's that's free training that's
on offer and it's a pretty high level of training as well so
then that that's it yeah so you've hit
on you've hit on something interesting there because we're talking
(08:38):
about the difference of that idea of me seeing
a leader in the group and thinking well you know they've really got it
together and hearing how far you've come but not
you know not necessarily always have
traveled a long distance in terms of your mental health journey sometimes people
take on that role while they're still learning and
growing but they they we see potential in
(09:01):
them yeah but one of the things you know and i think this podcast is deliberately
titled encouraging participation in grow roles because sometimes you know some
program workers that are helping support groups and you know provide them with
the things they they need to keep running,
they can get into a bit of a space where the groups are saying things like,
(09:27):
oh, who would like to be the organiser?
You know, my time's done. Who would like to be the next organiser?
And they're met with the deathly silence. And they might even carry on for a
few months without anybody taking on the role officially.
Someone kind of always ends up doing it unofficially.
But and one of the problems is is i think when we throw it open or who would like to do it.
(09:53):
You know, there might be plenty of people there with potential that have been
making personal changes, using the program,
but they don't, they lack a bit of confidence or they're actually a bit introverted,
you know, and they'll sort of never put their hand up thinking that perhaps
they can do it as good as the person they just saw or whatever's going through their mind.
(10:14):
Yeah. You know, they're not, perhaps they're not capable or whatever.
So it's really important that we avoid
that scenario area and and that
we actually try and identify people in
the group and say hey you know i've
been noticing this that
(10:34):
you've done this progress that you've made the program that you used how supportive
you were of of that situation you know etc etc and you know the group could
really benefit from you being the organizer and of course they were that that
away at first but then there's also Also, like you said,
you could really benefit from being the organiser, as the research has shown.
(10:57):
And sometimes we just need to understand that, don't we? Yeah.
You know, we need to say, well, not trying to appeal to our egocentricity and
to our sense of self so much, but there is always sort of like,
well, what do I get out of it? Is it just a chore I have to do?
You know? Well, absolutely not. This is an opportunity for me to,
(11:20):
you know, I've come into the group thinking about my own problems and trying to get help.
And now's the chance for me to look at the group and how it functions in the
community and how can I help the group change or progress.
And that's a challenge, but it's a great one. Do you know, think how much that
(11:42):
would help you if you're in a family.
And you're a bit, perhaps you've been, you know, you're a bit focused on self
and it's been hard to break some of those old habits.
And now you, so you might be able to translate that to be a better part of your
family at home or, you know, if you're a parent, especially.
It's going to help us be more objective. More objective. Think about these needs.
(12:05):
I mean, certainly when the group is looking for a, you know,
someone to step up and take on the role. Yeah.
As a group organiser, one of my tasks would be over the next year or two,
maybe in my second year as group organiser,
(12:25):
is to find someone or reflect on the group members and get alongside someone
or a couple of people who have the potential to be the group organiser and encourage them.
You know, give them a bit of informal training and encouragement leading up to it.
But because the part of the role of the organiser is, we've talked about it
(12:50):
over the years, is to animate the group, activate,
you know, delegate, you know, which is, you know, sharing the tasks around the
group, especially, you know, sharing the task of who's going to be the next
group organiser, and then to advocate, you know.
So we want a, you know, we want a flow of members coming through and stepping up into the role.
(13:15):
So, as a group organiser, you're kind of reflecting and spotting and recognising,
acknowledging, you know, good leadership in the group and potential for taking on the role. Yeah.
And you see it especially in people who, you know, who are regular at meetings,
you know, you start thinking about what their leadership qualities are and what
(13:36):
they're putting into the program, you know.
No, they don't need to be perfect. That's right. You don't pick the brightest,
most confident person in the group, you know.
Well, you don't necessarily all the time do that, you know.
You're going to be looking for someone who's getting to group regularly,
who's taking their personal growth seriously,
(13:57):
who's working on the steps, who's coming back to group and sharing progress
reports, is starting to develop, you know, a personal testimony and who is an example.
It's a good example of how growth works.
They're the sort of... Not only saying the right things.
Yeah. Not only saying the right things, but also doing the work for themselves.
(14:21):
It's easy to be kind of a bit swayed by somebody who says all the right things
and they make you feel reassured.
But, you know, we've got to be careful. That might be part of their problem
too, is that they're very good at masking, you know, yeah, I've got it all covered,
(14:42):
but really they don't. That's why they've come to the group.
And so we need to be able to help them see through that and actually commit
them to doing things before they take on a role like an organiser, which, you know.
Is something that we're really valuing grow.
Grow and it and it helps you helps me
(15:04):
the person to be able to like i
said you sort of come in thinking as an individual about
myself which is completely understandable because i'm in
pain or i'm you know i'm struggling i'm i'm really down i'm going through whatever
and as i start to make some personal progress now i can think about the group
(15:25):
and so you know if i go if i end up going back to work or to study or I might
be involved in a team at work.
Now I can see things from a group perspective.
I can assess things, needs, basically.
I can see perhaps how I can help Dave in the team at work.
(15:46):
All these things help build us and prepare us.
And like you said, the evidence shows that if you're involved in a leadership
role, what we're saying is by no means comprehensive, But we're just saying
these are the types of things that can happen for you taking on that role.
And it can be just as big a benefit for you as it is for the group. Yeah.
(16:12):
So it's really something to consider. And how do you go, though,
from just being a member in the group to the organizer?
Some people just feel a bit overwhelmed by that. And they think,
well, I'm just going to be responsible for everything.
How does Grove, how does Grove handle that?
Well, it's about, you know, accepting that, you know, people with potential
(16:36):
can grow into the position, you know.
They're not at an ideal level where they're ready to take it on and be left
with the baby, so to speak.
And how do we compensate for that? How does the group compensate for that?
How does the group allow a person that's perhaps a bit rough or raw,
(16:56):
Or, you know, in terms of how does the group compensate for that?
Well, we need to support that person, you know. Good 12-step work.
We need to give them encouragement.
We need to give them an opportunity to share. I mean, once we take on the role
of organiser, it doesn't mean that we stop sharing.
Yeah, we're still a member of the group, aren't we? And the group needs to rally
(17:20):
around that person and say, you know, it's not all your responsibility.
We're in this together, aren't we?
We're going to support you through, you know? So if there's a week where there's
a conflict appointment and the organiser can't be there, they need to say, hey, can you –,
arranged, we'll meet up, we'll give you the key if you're at a venue or a login
(17:45):
if you're online and can you set up the meeting 15 minutes before the meeting and welcome people.
It's all, it's a group effort, isn't it? That's it.
We're never alone. We should be, that's our
little community and we should be supporting each other
(18:05):
in the roles and learning from each other that's
interesting you know we get a lot we get a lot
out of grow you know sometimes don't don't appreciate how
much we get out of it you know yeah yeah and and sometimes stepping
up is about you know and saying yes and going going against our feelings and
saying all right all right i'll give it a crack it's about you know showing
(18:28):
our gratitude you know you know back in the day we call it the the gratitude
attitude you know oh yeah we were we're happy to give back
Because we get a lot out of the program, you know, and we get our mental health back, you know.
Some of us get our lives back and it does save our lives for some of us too, you know.
So, you know, not to put it on
(18:48):
people that they have to because it is voluntary. Don't want to say that.
That's the truth of it. That's the truth of it, you know. Really, we go to grow.
We might throw a gold coin in the tin each week, but, boy, that two hours,
we get a real good checkup, you know, on our mental health.
During that time, you know, for the price of a gold coin or paying five bucks
(19:12):
for a blue book, I mean, it's, you know, materially it's very cheap,
but, you know, the benefits we get out of it are lifelong, you know, really.
Benefits, insights, you know, the relationships.
At minimum, you're always going to feel better that you went.
Yeah. But most likely, you're going to have got a bit of support and help and
(19:37):
something practical to do during the week that gives you meaning and purpose,
you know, like you actually got,
I'm going to work on this this week and, you know,
that's part of being the role.
So, yeah, of course, as soon as you become the organiser or recorder,
you don't become the guru, you don't become the answer person,
you don't become the one responsible for every single thing.
(20:00):
You set up the meeting, you make sure the material is ready,
you help welcome people, of course.
But once the meeting starts, all the leadership in the group contributes,
just as usual, you know, and you're just, once that meeting goes,
you're one of the members and you're there to get support, just like everyone else.
And you have a few little extra responsibilities, but, you know, the benefit you'll get.
(20:23):
I think far outweighs, and as we've said many times now, the evidence shows that too.
I mean, it would have been written into our literature in the Blue Book somewhere.
It might have been the old Blue Book that says in there about the more active
that we've become in the grow community, the more we will feel at home,
you know, the more secure we feel, the more contented we are,
(20:46):
and the more we'll feel like we belong, you know,
because you're joining a community. Growers are a service. us.
Someone's going to come and do something to or for us.
It's about doing things with each other. You know, that's a community of people
that we join, like-minded people who have been through similar things to us,
who'd walk the talk, you know.
(21:07):
I mean, there's no one up and out there telling us, you know, poor me what to do.
People do things with each other, you know.
Do things with each other, absolutely. And that's a
good point because just to kind of to finish off on this
section yeah getting people to make the jump from being a regular member to
a say an organizer recorder some people are willing to make that jump and many
(21:31):
of many of us would be like oh no thanks you know but a good organizer and a
good program worker working in the background,
will be identifying you know who potential next organizers could be yeah and
would be helping prepare them by giving them small tasks to complete,
(21:53):
kind of build their confidence.
Well, yeah, we'd be gassing, like you say, chair a meeting.
We'd be inviting them to a leadership meeting, inviting them to write a paper
if and when they're ready, inviting them to a training day, inviting them to be involved.
(22:13):
Involved you know inviting them to you know
think about the reading for the
next week you know dave you know i'm just wondering if you could have a think
this week about a good reading for our group based on you know what we've been
talking about recently and come come prepared with that next week it might be
that small thing but all of a sudden dave's thinking about the group group, not just Dave,
(22:37):
and, you know, and build up little tasks like that over time.
Yeah. And they might feel like, you know, it's not a big jump to switch in, you know, and.
I mean, look, taking on a role could be the start of something fantastic, you know, like.
Yeah. You know, eventually. For many people, yeah. Eventually working for growth. Yeah.
That's the other thing. Imagine that. We love that, don't we? Yes.
(22:59):
I mean, that's how I came through. I came through the program from recovery
into, you know, taking on roles in the group and then offering to do voluntary
work for Grow and eventually getting a job with Grow.
And it was, you know, when you're doing something you love, it's not work, you know.
No. Well, it's work that – it's meaningful work. It is the energy.
(23:20):
And you feel like you're doing something worthwhile, you know.
I suppose the last question about this I might ask is when you were first asked
to be the organiser, how did you feel?
Did you feel like no worries? Did you feel a bit overwhelmed?
Actually, when I started with Grow and that role came up, I had a pretty big
(23:46):
ego. I really wanted the role.
And the group actually said, no, you're not quite ready yet,
Dave. So I had to grow a bit in humility.
But I loved that. I loved that story. And we might have said it before,
but it's really important. It's the other side.
Yeah. I mean, I was a bit devastated, but I picked myself up and it was explained why, you know.
(24:14):
And, yeah, I moved on. And eventually I was asked to take on the role and went
off and started a grow group up at Nimbin. but with a lot of support from the
leaders in the area and became organiser there. That was probably my first role as organiser.
But initially, yeah, I was a bit full of ego and a bit of a high type at times,
(24:34):
so I was encouraged to grow in humility.
The choices part, there's a little bit of wisdom in the growth programme.
The choices part of growing up is growing little.
Yes. And I saw that as, oh, I now have to grow a little bit at a time.
But really, it's about growing little in stature, you know.
When you're full of yourself and think you're better than people,
(24:57):
you know, that's about growing little in stature and growing in a bit of humility.
Yeah, coming down, being equal with one of the group, not the guru.
Yeah, that's it. So that's the other side of the coin, isn't it?
Yeah, and it's a good lesson.
And showed a lot of maturity by that group at that time too.
(25:17):
Yeah. They didn't just go, oh, yeah, great, Dave wants to do it,
great, I don't have to, or something.
And, you know, they had the maturity to say, actually.
You might need to learn a little bit more before you take that on about yourself.
Yeah, I wasn't ready. I was still quite unwell. That was the thing that they
(25:38):
saw before I did, you know.
So that's what's good about the group, that objectivity, you know.
But it certainly, you know, got me on the road to working towards,
was growing towards being able to take on one of those roles.
That's for sure. And it kind of came true, you know, what Con says about humility.
You know, the road to humility is paved with humiliations.
(26:00):
I thought, oh, gee, that's harsh. But it's kind of true, you know.
Has to be, doesn't it? Yeah.
But perhaps to finish, because I think this title is Participation in Grow Roles,
which you talked about specifically grow roles in the group.
But, of course, they extend out then to part of there's a role as a regional
(26:25):
organiser, so you become the organiser for all the region at the O&R organiser recorder meeting.
Yeah. It's a very specific role. And same thing, it's looking at as that meeting comes together.
Again, taking focus off the program worker but onto the GROW person, the GROW member, sorry.
(26:49):
Looking at the region as a whole, what are the needs, what support can the region offer?
Is there group visits that can happen to help support a group struggling a little bit?
We organise all that stuff from that organise and record meeting.
Is there a new group being suggested?
Have we got leadership to perhaps support that to give it the best chance to get going?
(27:10):
All these types of things, you know, and helping sort out group problems.
Problems and that's another great opportunity
and then from that you can go onto the branch program team yeah as well which
looks at the if you've got several regions in your branch now that that team
kind of evaluates and looks at the whole branch and very specific roles around training in the.
(27:39):
Delivering that training and grow members, seeing other growers doing these things.
And, you know, again, it's not about being exceptional corporate people.
It's about being really honest, sharing what you've learnt, saying,
oh, we had this issue or I've learnt this about myself and leadership and passing it on to others.
(28:02):
This is how I became well or this is how I've made significant change in my
life because we need to hear it from people that we really feel like understand
where we're coming from.
Yeah. It's our community. Yeah, I mean, I love the collective wisdom of your
weekly grow group for the objectivity you get to help with problems.
(28:25):
Then you join an ONR team or a program team.
And it's another level of collective wisdom that you're involved with and being
able to tune into and listen and gain advantage from and also contribute to,
you know, so that there's real advantages with,
you know, stepping up and participating in Grow at a different,
(28:46):
you know, beyond just our weekly Grow group, you know.
Yeah, and when you get onto those teams, you realise it's just ordinary people. Yeah.
You know, it's just ordinary people there. Yeah, you make friends.
You make friends. It expands your circle of influence, you know.
But yeah yeah and that's
(29:08):
you know participating sort of
in those lived experience sort of governance roles and
that can sound all really you know kind of flash and whizzing but again it's
just being ordinary and you know you don't have to be educated none of these
things is really about your lived
(29:28):
experience and understanding the grow program helping others get them,
but not everybody's going to be for that.
Like you said, some people want to just come in and grow and then get what they
need and leave and that's absolutely fine. It's designed to deal with that.
Some people do want to contribute but that might not be, it just can't go that way.
(29:50):
But there's plenty of other opportunities, like there might be a social activities
group, there might be a newsletter team, there might be an evaluation team in
your region, and there might be, you know.
12-step team that supports groups in Australia with their numbers, you know.
Yeah, like an outreach team, 12-step group.
(30:13):
Hospital orientations, you know, getting involved with, you know,
attending hospitals and telling, you know, telling people in there about PRO.
Yeah, that's a great thing to do.
So every time we do that and every time we invite someone to come with us to
something like that and get them to participate, and make their participation
just a little bit deeper than the group.
(30:34):
Again, that research showed that,
personal benefits of mental health and recovery increase.
Yeah. Much higher levels of wellbeing for people, especially taking on the organiser
and recorder's role. Yeah.
But the deeper we become involved and participate and connected.
(30:59):
You know, in personal value we talk about our unique identity and we talk about
being a connecting link between people.
The more we do that the bigger
our sense of our personal community
grows the more opportunity we have to contribute and
feel like we really will not feel like we're actually doing something really
(31:20):
meaningful and worthwhile and providing that for others and that's um that's
a great place to be and grows fantastic we offer that and do you know we'll
just put a little footnote here in terms of the role of the program worker.
Program worker's role is to kind of help support all this to happen and then get out of the way.
(31:47):
We talk about stepping in if there's a gap and helping.
And then as soon as that gap's filled, we step out. But, you know,
if we're making it about ourselves, we're kind of missing the mark in our role
as a program worker, as a staff member.
So we're really about creating,
(32:11):
helping create community, but we need to be getting out of the way to allow
people to take on these roles themselves
because that's about their development, not, you know, not ours.
Yeah, and the big picture is that, you know, for the organisation to,
you know, survive and thrive even, we need people to be, you know,
(32:34):
actively identifying potential leaders to step up into these roles as they come up, you know? Yeah.
So if we could leave you with two things, it's.
Like we said, research shows that you'll get the benefit.
And the second, I think, is it's not who would like to do this.
(32:57):
Dave, we've noticed you. Yes. Or I've noticed you.
Will you consider taking on this role? I'll support you. Yes.
I'll be right there. It's a bit more targeted, I suppose, for want of a better word.
Well, it's key because it's important for us to hear our name.
You know, and it's important for us to feel like somebody actually will be there with me.
(33:23):
And Grow are all about doing things with each other. So whenever we want to
encourage participation in Grow roles or beyond the group in other activities,
number one thing to do is go and invite someone.
Now, you can't do that with 100 people because you can't support 100 people.
(33:43):
Yeah. but everybody can invite one or two from the group and you'll see exponential
growth at your leadership meetings your activities trainings weekends all these
different things yeah if if we say hey do you want to come with me yeah or will
you take this on i'll support you,
(34:04):
and then you've got to support them yeah we've got to be prepared to follow
up with that that, you know, challenge that we're giving people. Yeah. Yeah.
And that, you know, because we're offering a gift, I think, really.
Yeah, it's full of opportunities, you know. Yeah. Taking on these roles, you know.
Yeah, it really is. And perhaps sometimes we're not great at explaining that. Mm.
(34:28):
That's it. How much of a benefit it is for you personally. Yeah.
So that's something we always need to improve on.
Mm. But anyway, thanks again for sharing the time with me.
That's all right, Darrell. Good to be here. I always enjoy it.
Yeah, we cover some interesting topics.
So I'm sure perhaps next time we can have a special guest on.
(34:50):
We haven't had one for a little while.
And perhaps talk about something that's come up through suggestions,
through the community and...
And address people at the level that they need.
And then, who knows, maybe one day we'll have a special golf episode to talk
about your improving golf game.
(35:14):
Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's going really well.
That's a cracker of a game yesterday. It's one of those games,
you know, one week you play really well and the next week you're off.
I'm kicking a divot further than I am the ball, but no, it's good.
It's good fun. Yeah. Gives you out of mischief.
(35:36):
Well, that's step seven, yeah? Carrying control of our bodies,
you know, and walk. That's a nice walk too. Absolutely.
Yeah, but I do like catching up here with you. It's good. All right.
Thanks again. All right, we'll see everyone next time. Okay, matey. Yeah. See you.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. For further information on
(35:57):
Grow Groups or mental health, and to donate, please visit grow.org.
Music.
Hi, and welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast for all our
Grow leaders and friends.
Here, you'll find all sorts of in-depth discussions and tips on a wide range
of topics, from personal leadership development in mental health recovery to
running your Grow group effectively.
(00:21):
Now here's your hosts, Daryl and Dave.
Well, welcome to the podcast today, Dave, or the training video,
whichever you're consuming.
Thanks, mate. Good to be here. Good to have you back, as always.
Just, even though it's midwinter and bitterly cold in Australia,
(00:44):
we just wanted to check in about a couple of little things things in relation
to grow and specifically in the grow roles in the organization so,
for those that are listening or fairly new obviously you
might be aware that in any given group there's
(01:05):
a role of the organizer of the group which is somebody who's attending the group
and the role of the recorder of the group which is someone who's also attending
that group and then there's a bunch
of other roles in the organisation for people who are members of GROW.
Yeah. So not for staff people or necessarily external people but for the members
(01:32):
of the groups themselves. Yeah.
We're essentially, we've got some staff, you know, but mostly we're a volunteer organisation.
Organization you know so we're forever rebuilding
and and inviting people to join the groups but
we're also need to be inviting people to you know
step up into roles to you know keep keep the organization growing and developing
(01:55):
and moving forward keep it alive basically you know yeah yeah so we're not while
they're voluntary roles we're not asking volunteers to come in and spend their time necessarily.
It's really for the members, by the members.
There's a real particular few reasons we do that. Mm-hmm.
(02:17):
It might be a bit confusing if you haven't been involved with Grow very long,
but there's a few reasons we do that very directly and deliberately,
and we call them leadership roles.
Roles so as a person comes into the organization through a weekly grow meeting
they come in to the meeting primarily i would say 99.9 of the time they're coming in because their,
(02:42):
life is not traveling the way they want and they feel a bit
overwhelmed they've got some particular mental health issue that's you know
really been something that they've perhaps carried a long time and to come into
a group that meets every week with supportive people who are also working on
their mental health and creating this lovely support network,
(03:05):
but beyond just support, actually doing some work and making some personal change is amazing.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and to keep that, you know, keep the momentum going,
the development of GROW and the groups,
groups we need people to you know step up
into certain roles at times and leadership roles
(03:27):
to you know administer the groups to
look after the groups because they're mostly there then they're looked
after by volunteers you know yeah and
and who better to who better to help
me if i'm attending a group you know
in this non-clinical environment we're talking me yeah who better to help me
(03:49):
than somebody that's walked the path i'm walking yeah or is still on the journey
yeah so it's not a doctor it's not an expert it's not even a staff member.
Necessarily but it's someone that's actually taking that journey and and doing
it and making changes so that's who i want to hear from yeah and you know it
(04:15):
doesn't mean any of those other the things that are not valid or necessary,
they're completely necessary in all different facets of our recovery journeys and our mental health.
But in our GROW meetings, in what we call peer-to-peer support,
we want to hear from peers and peers who have done the work or are doing the work.
(04:38):
And that's how we create that environment. And so that lived experience leadership,
which you and I have started getting onto that term a bit more,
in terms of explaining what Grow's been doing from day one,
is people using that lived experience to help others through the Grow program.
(05:00):
So we call these leadership roles. Yes.
So there's a couple of sides to it, isn't there? There's the side where me as
a member sees Dave, the leader in the group,
who shares his testimony of how he recovered, perhaps how unwell he was,
what he did in Grow, and now he's the organiser or the recorder of the group, et cetera.
(05:26):
But what about, what does it do for you, the leader in the group?
Mm-hmm yeah well there's there's huge benefits to taking on a leadership role
you know and I think in particular we're talking about the roles within the
grow group to start with to start with the grow meaning like the role of recorder
and the role of group organizer.
(05:47):
And and they because they're they're not you know those roles are temporary you know like,
we usually you might be you might be in the role of organizer for up to two
years you know The ideal is that someone else will develop and grow and step
up into that role or will be encouraged to take on that role of organiser at a time.
(06:10):
We don't have one person who becomes
a group organiser and stays a group organiser for five, 10, 15 years.
We generally encourage other people to step up and take on the roles because
then there's, you know, a lot of benefit in taking on the roles,
(06:33):
especially for our well-being and our, you know, mental health.
If you're the person taking it on or stepping up into that role. Yeah.
I mean, objectively, there was a lot of research done about,
you know, people who take on leadership roles by Lizzie Finn in Western Australia some years back.
(06:54):
And, you know, that research indicated that taking on leadership roles,
is associated with higher levels of well-being. She even talked about a reduction
of the use of, you know, medication hospitalisation, you know,
which is a bit of an indicator of, you know, how well we're travelling.
It's not the main goal, but certainly it's part of what she found out in her studies.
(07:15):
And, you know, she went around Australia and studied, you know,
900 different people who took on leadership roles, and they certainly were doing
better than people who didn't take on the roles.
So there's a personal benefit in stepping up and taking on the role of organiser.
(07:35):
Yeah, so, you know, and there's other personal benefits we're going to get out of it too, you know.
Well, it's going to help us, it helps us with our confidence.
Well, it helps us understand the organisation better because once we get involved
in becoming an organiser,
we're able to go to the organiser and recorders meetings and there's a lot of
good training that goes on there and support.
(07:56):
We're never really left with the baby, so to speak, there's always a support
network behind these leadership roles too.
Especially the bi-monthly organisers and recorders meeting where you get a lot of support.
Also, the organisation, we have elections every year. They're an elected role.
(08:16):
After the elections, we provide training for the new organisers and recorders.
You know so there's that's free training that's
on offer and it's a pretty high level of training as well so
then that that's it yeah so you've hit
on you've hit on something interesting there because we're talking
(08:38):
about the difference of that idea of me seeing
a leader in the group and thinking well you know they've really got it
together and hearing how far you've come but not
you know not necessarily always have
traveled a long distance in terms of your mental health journey sometimes people
take on that role while they're still learning and
growing but they they we see potential in
(09:01):
them yeah but one of the things you know and i think this podcast is deliberately
titled encouraging participation in grow roles because sometimes you know some
program workers that are helping support groups and you know provide them with
the things they they need to keep running,
they can get into a bit of a space where the groups are saying things like,
(09:27):
oh, who would like to be the organiser?
You know, my time's done. Who would like to be the next organiser?
And they're met with the deathly silence. And they might even carry on for a
few months without anybody taking on the role officially.
Someone kind of always ends up doing it unofficially.
But and one of the problems is is i think when we throw it open or who would like to do it.
(09:53):
You know, there might be plenty of people there with potential that have been
making personal changes, using the program,
but they don't, they lack a bit of confidence or they're actually a bit introverted,
you know, and they'll sort of never put their hand up thinking that perhaps
they can do it as good as the person they just saw or whatever's going through their mind.
(10:14):
Yeah. You know, they're not, perhaps they're not capable or whatever.
So it's really important that we avoid
that scenario area and and that
we actually try and identify people in
the group and say hey you know i've
been noticing this that
(10:34):
you've done this progress that you've made the program that you used how supportive
you were of of that situation you know etc etc and you know the group could
really benefit from you being the organizer and of course they were that that
away at first but then there's also Also, like you said,
you could really benefit from being the organiser, as the research has shown.
(10:57):
And sometimes we just need to understand that, don't we? Yeah.
You know, we need to say, well, not trying to appeal to our egocentricity and
to our sense of self so much, but there is always sort of like,
well, what do I get out of it? Is it just a chore I have to do?
You know? Well, absolutely not. This is an opportunity for me to,
(11:20):
you know, I've come into the group thinking about my own problems and trying to get help.
And now's the chance for me to look at the group and how it functions in the
community and how can I help the group change or progress.
And that's a challenge, but it's a great one. Do you know, think how much that
(11:42):
would help you if you're in a family.
And you're a bit, perhaps you've been, you know, you're a bit focused on self
and it's been hard to break some of those old habits.
And now you, so you might be able to translate that to be a better part of your
family at home or, you know, if you're a parent, especially.
It's going to help us be more objective. More objective. Think about these needs.
(12:05):
I mean, certainly when the group is looking for a, you know,
someone to step up and take on the role. Yeah.
As a group organiser, one of my tasks would be over the next year or two,
maybe in my second year as group organiser,
(12:25):
is to find someone or reflect on the group members and get alongside someone
or a couple of people who have the potential to be the group organiser and encourage them.
You know, give them a bit of informal training and encouragement leading up to it.
But because the part of the role of the organiser is, we've talked about it
(12:50):
over the years, is to animate the group, activate,
you know, delegate, you know, which is, you know, sharing the tasks around the
group, especially, you know, sharing the task of who's going to be the next
group organiser, and then to advocate, you know.
So we want a, you know, we want a flow of members coming through and stepping up into the role.
(13:15):
So, as a group organiser, you're kind of reflecting and spotting and recognising,
acknowledging, you know, good leadership in the group and potential for taking on the role. Yeah.
And you see it especially in people who, you know, who are regular at meetings,
you know, you start thinking about what their leadership qualities are and what
(13:36):
they're putting into the program, you know.
No, they don't need to be perfect. That's right. You don't pick the brightest,
most confident person in the group, you know.
Well, you don't necessarily all the time do that, you know.
You're going to be looking for someone who's getting to group regularly,
who's taking their personal growth seriously,
(13:57):
who's working on the steps, who's coming back to group and sharing progress
reports, is starting to develop, you know, a personal testimony and who is an example.
It's a good example of how growth works.
They're the sort of... Not only saying the right things.
Yeah. Not only saying the right things, but also doing the work for themselves.
(14:21):
It's easy to be kind of a bit swayed by somebody who says all the right things
and they make you feel reassured.
But, you know, we've got to be careful. That might be part of their problem
too, is that they're very good at masking, you know, yeah, I've got it all covered,
(14:42):
but really they don't. That's why they've come to the group.
And so we need to be able to help them see through that and actually commit
them to doing things before they take on a role like an organiser, which, you know.
Is something that we're really valuing grow.
Grow and it and it helps you helps me
(15:04):
the person to be able to like i
said you sort of come in thinking as an individual about
myself which is completely understandable because i'm in
pain or i'm you know i'm struggling i'm i'm really down i'm going through whatever
and as i start to make some personal progress now i can think about the group
(15:25):
and so you know if i go if i end up going back to work or to study or I might
be involved in a team at work.
Now I can see things from a group perspective.
I can assess things, needs, basically.
I can see perhaps how I can help Dave in the team at work.
(15:46):
All these things help build us and prepare us.
And like you said, the evidence shows that if you're involved in a leadership
role, what we're saying is by no means comprehensive, But we're just saying
these are the types of things that can happen for you taking on that role.
And it can be just as big a benefit for you as it is for the group. Yeah.
(16:12):
So it's really something to consider. And how do you go, though,
from just being a member in the group to the organizer?
Some people just feel a bit overwhelmed by that. And they think,
well, I'm just going to be responsible for everything.
How does Grove, how does Grove handle that?
Well, it's about, you know, accepting that, you know, people with potential
(16:36):
can grow into the position, you know.
They're not at an ideal level where they're ready to take it on and be left
with the baby, so to speak.
And how do we compensate for that? How does the group compensate for that?
How does the group allow a person that's perhaps a bit rough or raw,
(16:56):
Or, you know, in terms of how does the group compensate for that?
Well, we need to support that person, you know. Good 12-step work.
We need to give them encouragement.
We need to give them an opportunity to share. I mean, once we take on the role
of organiser, it doesn't mean that we stop sharing.
Yeah, we're still a member of the group, aren't we? And the group needs to rally
(17:20):
around that person and say, you know, it's not all your responsibility.
We're in this together, aren't we?
We're going to support you through, you know? So if there's a week where there's
a conflict appointment and the organiser can't be there, they need to say, hey, can you –,
arranged, we'll meet up, we'll give you the key if you're at a venue or a login
(17:45):
if you're online and can you set up the meeting 15 minutes before the meeting and welcome people.
It's all, it's a group effort, isn't it? That's it.
We're never alone. We should be, that's our
little community and we should be supporting each other
(18:05):
in the roles and learning from each other that's
interesting you know we get a lot we get a lot
out of grow you know sometimes don't don't appreciate how
much we get out of it you know yeah yeah and and sometimes stepping
up is about you know and saying yes and going going against our feelings and
saying all right all right i'll give it a crack it's about you know showing
(18:28):
our gratitude you know you know back in the day we call it the the gratitude
attitude you know oh yeah we were we're happy to give back
Because we get a lot out of the program, you know, and we get our mental health back, you know.
Some of us get our lives back and it does save our lives for some of us too, you know.
So, you know, not to put it on
(18:48):
people that they have to because it is voluntary. Don't want to say that.
That's the truth of it. That's the truth of it, you know. Really, we go to grow.
We might throw a gold coin in the tin each week, but, boy, that two hours,
we get a real good checkup, you know, on our mental health.
During that time, you know, for the price of a gold coin or paying five bucks
(19:12):
for a blue book, I mean, it's, you know, materially it's very cheap,
but, you know, the benefits we get out of it are lifelong, you know, really.
Benefits, insights, you know, the relationships.
At minimum, you're always going to feel better that you went.
Yeah. But most likely, you're going to have got a bit of support and help and
(19:37):
something practical to do during the week that gives you meaning and purpose,
you know, like you actually got,
I'm going to work on this this week and, you know,
that's part of being the role.
So, yeah, of course, as soon as you become the organiser or recorder,
you don't become the guru, you don't become the answer person,
you don't become the one responsible for every single thing.
(20:00):
You set up the meeting, you make sure the material is ready,
you help welcome people, of course.
But once the meeting starts, all the leadership in the group contributes,
just as usual, you know, and you're just, once that meeting goes,
you're one of the members and you're there to get support, just like everyone else.
And you have a few little extra responsibilities, but, you know, the benefit you'll get.
(20:23):
I think far outweighs, and as we've said many times now, the evidence shows that too.
I mean, it would have been written into our literature in the Blue Book somewhere.
It might have been the old Blue Book that says in there about the more active
that we've become in the grow community, the more we will feel at home,
you know, the more secure we feel, the more contented we are,
(20:46):
and the more we'll feel like we belong, you know,
because you're joining a community. Growers are a service. us.
Someone's going to come and do something to or for us.
It's about doing things with each other. You know, that's a community of people
that we join, like-minded people who have been through similar things to us,
who'd walk the talk, you know.
(21:07):
I mean, there's no one up and out there telling us, you know, poor me what to do.
People do things with each other, you know.
Do things with each other, absolutely. And that's a
good point because just to kind of to finish off on this
section yeah getting people to make the jump from being a regular member to
a say an organizer recorder some people are willing to make that jump and many
(21:31):
of many of us would be like oh no thanks you know but a good organizer and a
good program worker working in the background,
will be identifying you know who potential next organizers could be yeah and
would be helping prepare them by giving them small tasks to complete,
(21:53):
kind of build their confidence.
Well, yeah, we'd be gassing, like you say, chair a meeting.
We'd be inviting them to a leadership meeting, inviting them to write a paper
if and when they're ready, inviting them to a training day, inviting them to be involved.
(22:13):
Involved you know inviting them to you know
think about the reading for the
next week you know dave you know i'm just wondering if you could have a think
this week about a good reading for our group based on you know what we've been
talking about recently and come come prepared with that next week it might be
that small thing but all of a sudden dave's thinking about the group group, not just Dave,
(22:37):
and, you know, and build up little tasks like that over time.
Yeah. And they might feel like, you know, it's not a big jump to switch in, you know, and.
I mean, look, taking on a role could be the start of something fantastic, you know, like.
Yeah. You know, eventually. For many people, yeah. Eventually working for growth. Yeah.
That's the other thing. Imagine that. We love that, don't we? Yes.
(22:59):
I mean, that's how I came through. I came through the program from recovery
into, you know, taking on roles in the group and then offering to do voluntary
work for Grow and eventually getting a job with Grow.
And it was, you know, when you're doing something you love, it's not work, you know.
No. Well, it's work that – it's meaningful work. It is the energy.
(23:20):
And you feel like you're doing something worthwhile, you know.
I suppose the last question about this I might ask is when you were first asked
to be the organiser, how did you feel?
Did you feel like no worries? Did you feel a bit overwhelmed?
Actually, when I started with Grow and that role came up, I had a pretty big
(23:46):
ego. I really wanted the role.
And the group actually said, no, you're not quite ready yet,
Dave. So I had to grow a bit in humility.
But I loved that. I loved that story. And we might have said it before,
but it's really important. It's the other side.
Yeah. I mean, I was a bit devastated, but I picked myself up and it was explained why, you know.
(24:14):
And, yeah, I moved on. And eventually I was asked to take on the role and went
off and started a grow group up at Nimbin. but with a lot of support from the
leaders in the area and became organiser there. That was probably my first role as organiser.
But initially, yeah, I was a bit full of ego and a bit of a high type at times,
(24:34):
so I was encouraged to grow in humility.
The choices part, there's a little bit of wisdom in the growth programme.
The choices part of growing up is growing little.
Yes. And I saw that as, oh, I now have to grow a little bit at a time.
But really, it's about growing little in stature, you know.
When you're full of yourself and think you're better than people,
(24:57):
you know, that's about growing little in stature and growing in a bit of humility.
Yeah, coming down, being equal with one of the group, not the guru.
Yeah, that's it. So that's the other side of the coin, isn't it?
Yeah, and it's a good lesson.
And showed a lot of maturity by that group at that time too.
(25:17):
Yeah. They didn't just go, oh, yeah, great, Dave wants to do it,
great, I don't have to, or something.
And, you know, they had the maturity to say, actually.
You might need to learn a little bit more before you take that on about yourself.
Yeah, I wasn't ready. I was still quite unwell. That was the thing that they
(25:38):
saw before I did, you know.
So that's what's good about the group, that objectivity, you know.
But it certainly, you know, got me on the road to working towards,
was growing towards being able to take on one of those roles.
That's for sure. And it kind of came true, you know, what Con says about humility.
You know, the road to humility is paved with humiliations.
(26:00):
I thought, oh, gee, that's harsh. But it's kind of true, you know.
Has to be, doesn't it? Yeah.
But perhaps to finish, because I think this title is Participation in Grow Roles,
which you talked about specifically grow roles in the group.
But, of course, they extend out then to part of there's a role as a regional
(26:25):
organiser, so you become the organiser for all the region at the O&R organiser recorder meeting.
Yeah. It's a very specific role. And same thing, it's looking at as that meeting comes together.
Again, taking focus off the program worker but onto the GROW person, the GROW member, sorry.
(26:49):
Looking at the region as a whole, what are the needs, what support can the region offer?
Is there group visits that can happen to help support a group struggling a little bit?
We organise all that stuff from that organise and record meeting.
Is there a new group being suggested?
Have we got leadership to perhaps support that to give it the best chance to get going?
(27:10):
All these types of things, you know, and helping sort out group problems.
Problems and that's another great opportunity
and then from that you can go onto the branch program team yeah as well which
looks at the if you've got several regions in your branch now that that team
kind of evaluates and looks at the whole branch and very specific roles around training in the.
(27:39):
Delivering that training and grow members, seeing other growers doing these things.
And, you know, again, it's not about being exceptional corporate people.
It's about being really honest, sharing what you've learnt, saying,
oh, we had this issue or I've learnt this about myself and leadership and passing it on to others.
(28:02):
This is how I became well or this is how I've made significant change in my
life because we need to hear it from people that we really feel like understand
where we're coming from.
Yeah. It's our community. Yeah, I mean, I love the collective wisdom of your
weekly grow group for the objectivity you get to help with problems.
(28:25):
Then you join an ONR team or a program team.
And it's another level of collective wisdom that you're involved with and being
able to tune into and listen and gain advantage from and also contribute to,
you know, so that there's real advantages with,
you know, stepping up and participating in Grow at a different,
(28:46):
you know, beyond just our weekly Grow group, you know.
Yeah, and when you get onto those teams, you realise it's just ordinary people. Yeah.
You know, it's just ordinary people there. Yeah, you make friends.
You make friends. It expands your circle of influence, you know.
But yeah yeah and that's
(29:08):
you know participating sort of
in those lived experience sort of governance roles and
that can sound all really you know kind of flash and whizzing but again it's
just being ordinary and you know you don't have to be educated none of these
things is really about your lived
(29:28):
experience and understanding the grow program helping others get them,
but not everybody's going to be for that.
Like you said, some people want to just come in and grow and then get what they
need and leave and that's absolutely fine. It's designed to deal with that.
Some people do want to contribute but that might not be, it just can't go that way.
(29:50):
But there's plenty of other opportunities, like there might be a social activities
group, there might be a newsletter team, there might be an evaluation team in
your region, and there might be, you know.
12-step team that supports groups in Australia with their numbers, you know.
Yeah, like an outreach team, 12-step group.
(30:13):
Hospital orientations, you know, getting involved with, you know,
attending hospitals and telling, you know, telling people in there about PRO.
Yeah, that's a great thing to do.
So every time we do that and every time we invite someone to come with us to
something like that and get them to participate, and make their participation
just a little bit deeper than the group.
(30:34):
Again, that research showed that,
personal benefits of mental health and recovery increase.
Yeah. Much higher levels of wellbeing for people, especially taking on the organiser
and recorder's role. Yeah.
But the deeper we become involved and participate and connected.
(30:59):
You know, in personal value we talk about our unique identity and we talk about
being a connecting link between people.
The more we do that the bigger
our sense of our personal community
grows the more opportunity we have to contribute and
feel like we really will not feel like we're actually doing something really
(31:20):
meaningful and worthwhile and providing that for others and that's um that's
a great place to be and grows fantastic we offer that and do you know we'll
just put a little footnote here in terms of the role of the program worker.
Program worker's role is to kind of help support all this to happen and then get out of the way.
(31:47):
We talk about stepping in if there's a gap and helping.
And then as soon as that gap's filled, we step out. But, you know,
if we're making it about ourselves, we're kind of missing the mark in our role
as a program worker, as a staff member.
So we're really about creating,
(32:11):
helping create community, but we need to be getting out of the way to allow
people to take on these roles themselves
because that's about their development, not, you know, not ours.
Yeah, and the big picture is that, you know, for the organisation to,
you know, survive and thrive even, we need people to be, you know,
(32:34):
actively identifying potential leaders to step up into these roles as they come up, you know? Yeah.
So if we could leave you with two things, it's.
Like we said, research shows that you'll get the benefit.
And the second, I think, is it's not who would like to do this.
(32:57):
Dave, we've noticed you. Yes. Or I've noticed you.
Will you consider taking on this role? I'll support you. Yes.
I'll be right there. It's a bit more targeted, I suppose, for want of a better word.
Well, it's key because it's important for us to hear our name.
You know, and it's important for us to feel like somebody actually will be there with me.
(33:23):
And Grow are all about doing things with each other. So whenever we want to
encourage participation in Grow roles or beyond the group in other activities,
number one thing to do is go and invite someone.
Now, you can't do that with 100 people because you can't support 100 people.
(33:43):
Yeah. but everybody can invite one or two from the group and you'll see exponential
growth at your leadership meetings your activities trainings weekends all these
different things yeah if if we say hey do you want to come with me yeah or will
you take this on i'll support you,
(34:04):
and then you've got to support them yeah we've got to be prepared to follow
up with that that, you know, challenge that we're giving people. Yeah. Yeah.
And that, you know, because we're offering a gift, I think, really.
Yeah, it's full of opportunities, you know. Yeah. Taking on these roles, you know.
Yeah, it really is. And perhaps sometimes we're not great at explaining that. Mm.
(34:28):
That's it. How much of a benefit it is for you personally. Yeah.
So that's something we always need to improve on.
Mm. But anyway, thanks again for sharing the time with me.
That's all right, Darrell. Good to be here. I always enjoy it.
Yeah, we cover some interesting topics.
So I'm sure perhaps next time we can have a special guest on.
(34:50):
We haven't had one for a little while.
And perhaps talk about something that's come up through suggestions,
through the community and...
And address people at the level that they need.
And then, who knows, maybe one day we'll have a special golf episode to talk
about your improving golf game.
(35:14):
Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's going really well.
That's a cracker of a game yesterday. It's one of those games,
you know, one week you play really well and the next week you're off.
I'm kicking a divot further than I am the ball, but no, it's good.
It's good fun. Yeah. Gives you out of mischief.
(35:36):
Well, that's step seven, yeah? Carrying control of our bodies,
you know, and walk. That's a nice walk too. Absolutely.
Yeah, but I do like catching up here with you. It's good. All right.
Thanks again. All right, we'll see everyone next time. Okay, matey. Yeah. See you.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. For further information on
(35:57):
Grow Groups or mental health, and to donate, please visit grow.org.
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