November 13, 2025 • 28 mins
Welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast, hosted by Daryl and Dave. In this episode, we dive into the concept of group problems and how to effectively address them within your Grow group. Daryl and Dave discuss the importance of bringing up issues during meetings, the role of the group method card, and the benefits of solving problems at the group level.
Learn how to identify common group problems, such as starting meetings on time and maintaining confidentiality, and discover practical tasks and solutions to strengthen your group's dynamics. The hosts also emphasize the significance of 12-step work, social activities, and the feedback loop between group members and organizers.
Whether you're a seasoned Grow leader or new to the role, this episode provides valuable insights and strategies to enhance the effectiveness and cohesion of your Grow group. Tune in and become better equipped to tackle any group challenges that arise.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi and welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast for all our Grow leaders and friends.
Here you'll find all sorts of in-depth discussions and tips on a wide range
of topics from personal leadership development in mental health recovery to
running your Grow group effectively.
(00:20):
Now here's your hosts Daryl and Dave.
Welcome to the podcast today Dave, it's good to Good to have you along as usual.
G'day, mate. Yeah, good to be here.
And how's the weather there? Beautiful. Beautiful day for golf.
All right, well, we've got to wrap things up quick here then. No, absolutely.
(00:42):
I know there's many, many Grow members and volunteers and organisers and stuff.
They're enjoying the podcast. And some say, oh, you know, don't make them too long.
So i agree yeah depends what
you're doing sometimes it's nice to have something to listen to in the background yeah
(01:04):
sometimes it's good to get to the point so we'll try and do that today well
today's look i think it'd be interesting too for you know if people have any
any issues that they'd like talked about too to send them in to you yeah absolutely
we always could be for to discuss things that will be helpful yeah people most
of the things we discussed.
(01:24):
Are things that we've had in conversation with someone and said,
you know, what about this?
And if a couple of people say it, then we'll say, talk about this on the podcast.
It might be of benefit.
All these things are designed basically to be a companion to what's written
down in GROW, in literature, et cetera, and then to help you run the group.
(01:48):
So, all right. Well, today, in that vein,
we wanted to talk today about this idea of
group problems and what that means or it comes from and how you can do it because
it seems to be that there's a few groups saying that they're not really sure
(02:08):
how to do that or didn't realise it was even part of the group.
So in your group method card, which we use for every meeting,
in in a previous version excuse me
we had as part of the closing
routine we had kind of slipped in there group problems
(02:30):
and organize and record a meeting recommended solutions or on our meeting recommended
solutions yeah and then at some point we thought you know what that's a bit
buried in the closing routine when you're preparing for the end of the meeting
and yeah bearing refreshments and doing the evaluations.
So in the current version of the group method, there's a separate section for it now, Section 5.
(02:57):
And right at the top it says to ask the group organiser to inform the group,
members of the group, of any group problems and recommended solutions that had
been discussed at the organiser recorder meeting and some feedback and some
helpful advice had been given.
And secondly, to invite the group sitting there at the moment,
(03:24):
to discuss and hopefully come up with a resolution to any current group issues
or problems that we might have as a group. So it's a separate little section.
Yeah. The main body of the meeting is always for us to discuss our personal problems. Yeah.
And come up with some practical tasks regarding that and be supported in that.
(03:46):
But this part of the meeting is to discuss a group issue or problem.
So that begs the question. Yeah, they're going to come up at times.
I don't think any group will exist that doesn't have the occasional group problem.
Yeah, so we've got a group of people that, you know, looking at the first couple
of steps and freely admit that there's disorder in their life, all right?
(04:10):
So amongst that group of people, you're going to occasionally come up with group
problems that need to be resolved.
I mean, ideally, most group problems can be solved at the group level without
it being escalated straight to the program worker or straight to the ONR team.
(04:33):
First place, in the first instance, try and resolve your group issues at the group level.
Because it'll make your group stronger, you know. It tightens up the we of the group, you know.
And one of the voids is it keeps things out in the open and being talked about
rather than, you know, people gossiping or talking behind people's back or danger of the group,
(04:59):
you know, breaking into factions, you know. Yeah.
It's best to, you know, if there's a group problem, nip it in the bud,
bring it up sooner than later and use that group problems now,
you know, solutions level of, you know, the meeting to try and resolve it.
So initially try and resolve it at the group first.
(05:20):
Yeah, because that was the point I've heard you make many times is the reason
it's on there so that the group will tackle the problem themselves.
They'll learn to tackle a problem that's affecting all the group.
Yeah, we're going to learn something from it. I mean, there's even a little
wisdom. He said, if you've got a problem, it's good.
(05:42):
Yeah. Because it's going to lead to, you know, improving your group, you know.
And the more we put it off, the more we put off taking on some sort of challenging
issue in the group, the more challenging it will become, you know,
the harder it will be to take on.
The harder it will be to take on and that's when you can get people going,
(06:03):
yeah, I don't know if I'll keep coming, you know, And then people slowly sort
of start disappearing and you think, oh, so-and-so doesn't come anymore.
It's because you've got this issue and you're not dealing with it and people
are, like, getting uncomfortable.
So it's really important.
And I think that the long-term benefit of learning to deal with a group issue
(06:29):
or a problem and discuss it as a group and it might be a bit uncomfortable or
awkward sometimes, not always,
But getting to the point where you actually discuss it, come up with an agreed
practical task or solution. Yep.
That everyone goes, right, fair enough.
I'm prepared to do that or whatever. But everyone has their say.
(06:52):
Is that ability to do that when you go home,
if you end up having a family or, you know, in a share house or you're at work and working in a team,
the ability to be able to talk about a problem as a group, not get personal,
(07:13):
not overreact, you know, not get upset, fly off the handle, walk out and then
have to come back and say I'm sorry or never come back again.
All the things that we all do, if you learn to do this in the group,
it really can change your whole outlook on life and,
(07:33):
as you said, maintains the we of the group. We're in this together. We've come up with this.
It's not just Dave coming in saying, right, you all need to do this.
You're all naughty, whatever it is. So, yeah, it's a great point.
Yeah, I mean, and you touched on something too when you started there about,
(07:55):
you know, being a practical task and a part of the program.
I mean, when you do have a group problem and you talk about it, You discuss it.
You understand the problem, right? Any problem in the first instance is a problem
of understanding, right?
So it does give us practice of, you know, communicating these difficult things sometimes.
But just like a personal problem, you come up with a practical task for the
(08:17):
group as a whole, and then you come up with part of the program to support it,
to support that change, you know, that whatever that little change is.
I mean, there's lots of different, you know, group problems that come up over the years.
I mean, a fairly common one, yeah, the group not starting on time, you know.
(08:39):
Probably the most common, yeah. People getting there late, you know.
Ideally, you want people there, you know, if the group starts at,
say, 10 o'clock, you want everyone there at 10 to 10.
So that might be the practical task, okay. From now on, we're all going to arrive
10 minutes early and we'll help you organise and set up the chairs and, yeah.
But then you would take in, you know, if there's a group member that's catching
(09:02):
a bus and they can't, you'd make allowances for that.
But the idea is that as a group, we've decided.
But having said that, as a group, we're all getting there at 20 past 10. Yeah.
And consistently, you might. So do we need to shift the time of the group?
(09:22):
Yeah. Because none of us can actually be here at 10 o'clock.
Yes. And we're all getting here at 10.20 or 10.30.
We've got newcomers standing on the door waiting around. They're getting more
and more anxious and nervous while they're waiting for people to turn up, and they take off.
Unfortunately, I've seen that happen many times. Yeah.
(09:42):
Yeah, look, it's an issue worth talking about and getting a solution for because
we do get some government funding,
we have an obligation to the community, we advertise our groups starting at a particular time.
So yeah, it's worth bringing up if it is a group problem.
(10:02):
But it's one example of many and it's probably one of the more simple problems.
There are more complex problems that come up at times and more serious problems
like confidentiality being breached, you know, that would need to be brought up fairly quickly.
It might be a matter of helping the group understand, if it's a fairly,
(10:23):
a lot of new members, understanding what that clause in the Grow commitment
means about confidentiality, you know. Some people mightn't completely understand what it means.
So talking about in-group problems, like you say, it builds up that we of the
group and that common understanding about, you know, why we do things.
(10:43):
So, yeah, in the first instance, most group problems can be resolved at the group level.
Now, if it's ongoing and it can't be resolved there and it's a matter of a more
serious nature that the group needs help with from outside, the next step is
to take it to your ONR team, you know.
(11:04):
The Organising Recorder Meeting. The Organising Recorder's Meeting,
you know. And that's where we
get support from the other leaders in the area, in the region, you know.
And it's, I don't know, my thinking always was that if a group problem is being
shared at an ONR team, it needs to have been discussed at the group level during
(11:27):
that group problems and ONR recommended solutions.
First? Yeah, first, you know. Ideally, the group knows that the organiser and
recorder are going to talk about to take this issue to the ONR team.
So, yeah, that can be really helpful. And you go into the ONR team prepared
and ready because it's a working meeting, the organisers and recorders meeting.
(11:51):
Quite a lot of important business gets done. Yeah.
And that can be great support for the organiser.
The temptation, I guess, the opposite temptation is to think,
oh, we've got this problem, this problem.
Take them all to the ONR, organise a recorded meeting, discuss them,
(12:12):
and come back with ready-made solutions,
so that when you bring up the problem, you've already got the solution and the
group's a bit sort of slapped across the face, you know, like, hang on, what?
We didn't even know this was happening. So, yeah, that's maybe the extreme.
I'm sure if you occasionally brought up a problem and said, look,
(12:35):
I'm not sure how to approach this.
We've got an issue in the group i'm not sure how to bring it
up that would actually be something to bring
up at the leadership meeting wouldn't it
like your your personal issue of leadership and how do i challenge how do i
bring up an issue yeah yeah yeah that's the difference in there between problem
(12:58):
solving isn't it at group levels and you've got personal issues and group problems
during that part of the meeting.
At R&R meetings, you work on group problems usually.
And if there's a problem... Related to the running of the group. Yeah.
And then leadership meetings, you bring up problems of leadership.
(13:18):
If you're struggling to lead a meeting or to communicate with a group,
yeah, it's your own personal issue around leadership.
So that's at your leadership meetings. But certainly your R&R meetings,
you'd be surprised, you know, that objective feedback from the other groups
and some recommended solutions to an issue that other groups might have experienced
(13:41):
already and have found solutions for.
They can share it with you. They often have, yeah. They often have.
Yeah, it's that collective wisdom, isn't it, of the team?
Absolutely. I mean, as we say in Grow, you know, You know, problems should be
tried to be dealt with at the level at which they arise.
(14:02):
So if it's a problem between you and me, it should be tried to be dealt with
between you and me first.
And if that breaks down and fails for some reason, then we can perhaps appeal
to some of the seasoned leadership that we have in the group,
in the organiser recorder meeting, branch programming team and so on.
(14:22):
But we're always trying to bring it up at the level at which it's happening.
So if there's a group issue, it should be the group that discusses it first.
And if they really can't make headway or they're not understanding it,
then yes, by all means, say, oh, maybe we can refer this to the organiser and
reporter team and see if any other groups are having the same issue.
(14:42):
Because you can almost guarantee they have or have in the past and they say,
oh, yeah, we had that, this is what we did.
So, but the important thing is to have the courage to say something in the group
problems section. Yeah.
(15:02):
The easy thing or the thing that happens most often is go, oh,
I'll tell the program worker we've got this problem and there you go, I've done my bit.
Well, a good program worker will come back and bring it up at the group problems
section, have the group discuss it.
Yeah. Not go away and fix it. Yeah. Yeah.
(15:26):
Yeah, that's doing things for or to people, isn't it?
We're in Grow, we're very much about the we've relationship,
you know, working things out together, you know, because we all learn something
from it then, you know. That's what it's for.
Everything we do in Grow has two purposes at least.
(15:47):
One is to do the thing and the other is for our own personal development.
To be able to develop ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to,
I mean, resolving any of these issues in group is going to help each of us and
the group grow in those foundations of maturity,
you know, understanding, acceptance, confidence, control and love.
(16:10):
So it's going to help build one of those, one or more of those resources.
And the way it's done is, you know, the living it out is that,
you know, When the R&R or the group has solved the problem or found a solution,
they find a practical task and a part of the program to support,
(16:30):
to underpin that change that we're about to make.
And the R&R team need to do the same thing as well.
Once an organiser has shared the group problem, they'll come up with a solution.
Once they understand the problem, they might ask a question or two or three.
But you really need to understand the problem before you can find the right solution.
(16:51):
And then you come up with a practical task and then you come up with a part
of the program for the whole group to think about.
Yeah. You know, some sort of growth philosophy to underpin and support the change
that we're about to make.
Yeah. So just to recap, what are some common group problems you might bring up?
(17:11):
We talked about the issue of perhaps the group not starting on time.
Yeah. What might be another one that is a good thing to bring up in that group problem section?
Or perhaps some that you've had experience with when you're a program worker?
Sometimes a breach of confidentiality.
It's just reminding people the confidential nature of the groups.
(17:36):
A problem might be that we're down to just being a small group. We need new members.
As a voluntary organization, we're constantly rebuilding.
Aren't we? Yeah. And that's the very, you know, the nature, that's the very
nature of any voluntary organisation is we're constantly rebuilding.
(17:59):
So it might be the group saying, you know, the organiser saying,
look, we haven't been doing any 12-step work, you know.
I'm sure Grow does some promotion for us and the program worker does their outreach,
but the groups themselves during their 12-step work might want to organise doing
some of their own 12-step work promoting their group, whether it be,
you know, some posters and pamphlets what's around town or doing a little, you know,
(18:23):
little chat on community radio or something like that, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. And then basically any section of this running of the meeting that you
feel is not being done or perhaps is being skipped,
(18:43):
perhaps we're avoiding a certain section of the group method constantly or something,
that's the perfect time to bring that up in that section.
Yeah. You know, like, hey, we're not doing problem solving.
We keep avoiding it. We just ask each other how the week is and then we go straight on.
Yeah. Or, you know, why do we always skip the middle routine?
(19:07):
You know, there might be good reasons, but let's discuss it as a group and make
sure that we, you know, anything out of here that we think. Yeah.
Well, it could be the 12-step work, you know. I mean, I've seen groups talk
about, you know, look, geez, we haven't had a group social together for a while.
Absolutely. That's a group issue, you know, because there's a certain amount
(19:28):
of work you can get done during that two-hour group meeting.
But for the development of the caring and sharing community of grow,
it's about just meeting each other in an ordinary way for friendship.
You know, the solution might be, oh, okay, I can get to the cafe down a little
bit earlier each week. if people want to meet for a cuppa before group or...
(19:49):
You know, I'll organise hosting a barbecue at the local park,
you know, Sunday week or something.
You know, you can be creative and talk about it together when it's the group.
But, yeah, 12-step work, you know, building up, you know, getting some social
activities into the group, that can be a group issue, you know,
because it's just about work and problem solving all the time.
(20:09):
I think, you know, for proper balance, you need someone to fund stuff too, you know.
You do. You need to balance the building the community,
but you've got to maintain, at the same time, maintain that we're bringing up
problems and we're dealing with
(20:30):
them and giving practical tasks and challenging each other to be a bit,
to be more definite when we're sharing those things,
not just to kind of swipe by and go, oh, yeah.
An issue. But we didn't discuss anything. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I just thought then, you know, an issue for the group might be
that none of us ever go to the leadership meetings, you know,
(20:54):
or none of our group has ever written a leadership paper.
You know, so there's all sorts of good ordinary problems too.
Yeah, yeah. They can help us develop in lots of ways. But we've just got to
remember the main focus for today is to remind people that it's there in the
group method, you know, for anyone in the group to bring up an issue.
(21:16):
And certainly any issue or problem
taken to the R&R meeting needs to be discussed with the group first.
Yeah, any issue that's affecting the way the group's running. Yeah.
It could be the venue. You know, the venue isn't suitable. It's noisy.
You know, there's another group that meets next door that, you know,
(21:36):
they're playing bowls or, you know, indoor bowls and making a lot of racket
and, you know, that sort of thing.
You know, it could be many things, but certainly, you know.
Yeah, it doesn't always have to be, you know, like you said,
breach of confidentiality or somebody sort of taking over the group and not
letting anyone else have a say but there might be some things that still affect it.
(21:58):
If you're going to a venue, it's too noisy, you can't hear or it's freezing
cold and you can't concentrate, those things affect the running of the meeting.
So, you know, it might be something that you guys can come up with.
When you discuss together, hey, are we happy here in this place?
Can we have a look around maybe once?
(22:19):
You never know what people in the group of, you know, but sometimes we just,
if we don't address it, we don't talk about it, we don't ask, we won't know.
Or similarly, if you don't address it, people will discuss it outside of the meeting.
Yeah. Even though we say, please don't do that. and then you run the risk of
(22:40):
these couple and this couple and everybody got, like you said,
a little faction and kind of breaks the group apart.
So bring it up, discuss it, move on.
I mean, the other way that part of the meeting can be used,
and you might not have a group problem, but I have
(23:00):
seen that part of the meeting get handed over to the group recorder
after an ONR meeting and for the recorder to give the group some feedback on
any issues that came up from the attendance sheets or from the weekly evaluation
that we end on or the program work at the end of the bi-monthly period.
(23:22):
So it's very important for the organiser and recorder, when they come back from
an ONR meeting, organiser and recorder's meeting,
to actually use that part of the meeting to give the group some feedback back
on how the ONR meeting went and any big issues for the whole area that came up, you know. Yeah.
(23:43):
Yeah, I think, what about, just to finish off, we've got to wrap this up so
we can keep to our promise of being quick.
What about the program worker? Can they say anything at this point?
Can they bring anything up?
Well, it is a good opportunity if there's, you know, sometimes groups get in
the habit of doing things and there might be a habit that needs correcting,
(24:09):
that needs to be changed.
So what's good about having a program worker come in is that,
you know, you ask them for feedback at the end of the meeting to get some effective
feedback on how the group's going.
And also the program worker might come in and point out a group issue during
that part of the meeting.
And that's okay, isn't it? As long as it's necessary and they're willing to
(24:36):
help them discuss it and help them come up with a solution.
It's not just a frustration. It was a group issue. Yeah, all sorts of things can creep in.
We've seen it where you don't necessarily think it's a problem until somebody
else sees it from the outside.
(24:57):
So, you know, we've had groups where they've been meeting for a while,
they get really good friendship, you know, they're really good relationship,
friendships, and then the organiser might...
Oh i can't be there this week and they'll
call up the other group members and say oh look i'm not
going to be able to be there this week and so
(25:19):
that group member might go oh okay well they're not going there yeah maybe i
won't go and then in i think we've discussed this before but it's a fairly common
problem is you do a bit of a ring around decide not to go yeah everybody decided not to go oh,
you know, it'll only be the three of us if that person's not there or whatever.
(25:41):
Yeah, maybe we'll just meet again next week. And then, you know,
you can guarantee, I know it sounds like Murphy's Law, but you can guarantee
that's the week somebody finally has the courage to turn up. Yeah.
Yeah, there's that, and there is that. There's the other idea that,
you know, we have a responsibility community, you know, to the wider community
(26:05):
to at least have someone at the meeting to agree on any first times it might turn up.
I think the point is that the group might not see there's a problem because
they've let each other know, they've all done the right thing, you know.
But, of course, they might not realise.
We've had a couple of weeks when you've done that where, somebody's turned up
(26:27):
ready for the meeting and they've said oh you know what time's oh they should
be starting at 10 and you know that well should be starting at one and they don't count,
and so it's perfectly reasonable
for the program worker to go hey you guys got a
bit of a problem here we're missing out on
new members because yeah we're doing this this issues look that's just that's
(26:50):
just one of many things you can discuss but it's just the point was more that
the program Program worker can bring up an issue if they need to in that space
as well for the group to discuss, which they may not even be aware of.
And, of course, the other forum for that to discuss things is at the organiser
recorder meeting when group brings their two-monthly reflection evaluation of
(27:15):
the group and the program worker simile and they discuss and compare and contrast together.
Yeah. All right, well, I think that's about enough for group problems and issues
and recommended solutions from the ONR meeting.
So, again, we'll appeal to anybody if they want to share something with us, send us an email.
(27:39):
You can just do it on the website and say this is a suggestion for the podcast.
You can contact me via email or call in the Grow office in South Australia,
and we'll happily discuss those points here if there are any benefit.
(28:02):
Yeah, ask a program worker to pass on any suggestions as well.
Yeah, pass on to your program worker to bring up as well.
All right, well, thanks again, Dave. We'll look forward to talking to you next time.
That's all right, mate. Yeah, look forward to it. Enjoy golf this afternoon.
Yes, I will. Thanks, mate. Talk to you later. See you.
(28:25):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. For further information on Grow.
Music.
Hi and welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast for all our Grow leaders and friends.
Here you'll find all sorts of in-depth discussions and tips on a wide range
of topics from personal leadership development in mental health recovery to
running your Grow group effectively.
(00:20):
Now here's your hosts Daryl and Dave.
Welcome to the podcast today Dave, it's good to Good to have you along as usual.
G'day, mate. Yeah, good to be here.
And how's the weather there? Beautiful. Beautiful day for golf.
All right, well, we've got to wrap things up quick here then. No, absolutely.
(00:42):
I know there's many, many Grow members and volunteers and organisers and stuff.
They're enjoying the podcast. And some say, oh, you know, don't make them too long.
So i agree yeah depends what
you're doing sometimes it's nice to have something to listen to in the background yeah
(01:04):
sometimes it's good to get to the point so we'll try and do that today well
today's look i think it'd be interesting too for you know if people have any
any issues that they'd like talked about too to send them in to you yeah absolutely
we always could be for to discuss things that will be helpful yeah people most
of the things we discussed.
(01:24):
Are things that we've had in conversation with someone and said,
you know, what about this?
And if a couple of people say it, then we'll say, talk about this on the podcast.
It might be of benefit.
All these things are designed basically to be a companion to what's written
down in GROW, in literature, et cetera, and then to help you run the group.
(01:48):
So, all right. Well, today, in that vein,
we wanted to talk today about this idea of
group problems and what that means or it comes from and how you can do it because
it seems to be that there's a few groups saying that they're not really sure
(02:08):
how to do that or didn't realise it was even part of the group.
So in your group method card, which we use for every meeting,
in in a previous version excuse me
we had as part of the closing
routine we had kind of slipped in there group problems
(02:30):
and organize and record a meeting recommended solutions or on our meeting recommended
solutions yeah and then at some point we thought you know what that's a bit
buried in the closing routine when you're preparing for the end of the meeting
and yeah bearing refreshments and doing the evaluations.
So in the current version of the group method, there's a separate section for it now, Section 5.
(02:57):
And right at the top it says to ask the group organiser to inform the group,
members of the group, of any group problems and recommended solutions that had
been discussed at the organiser recorder meeting and some feedback and some
helpful advice had been given.
And secondly, to invite the group sitting there at the moment,
(03:24):
to discuss and hopefully come up with a resolution to any current group issues
or problems that we might have as a group. So it's a separate little section.
Yeah. The main body of the meeting is always for us to discuss our personal problems. Yeah.
And come up with some practical tasks regarding that and be supported in that.
(03:46):
But this part of the meeting is to discuss a group issue or problem.
So that begs the question. Yeah, they're going to come up at times.
I don't think any group will exist that doesn't have the occasional group problem.
Yeah, so we've got a group of people that, you know, looking at the first couple
of steps and freely admit that there's disorder in their life, all right?
(04:10):
So amongst that group of people, you're going to occasionally come up with group
problems that need to be resolved.
I mean, ideally, most group problems can be solved at the group level without
it being escalated straight to the program worker or straight to the ONR team.
(04:33):
First place, in the first instance, try and resolve your group issues at the group level.
Because it'll make your group stronger, you know. It tightens up the we of the group, you know.
And one of the voids is it keeps things out in the open and being talked about
rather than, you know, people gossiping or talking behind people's back or danger of the group,
(04:59):
you know, breaking into factions, you know. Yeah.
It's best to, you know, if there's a group problem, nip it in the bud,
bring it up sooner than later and use that group problems now,
you know, solutions level of, you know, the meeting to try and resolve it.
So initially try and resolve it at the group first.
(05:20):
Yeah, because that was the point I've heard you make many times is the reason
it's on there so that the group will tackle the problem themselves.
They'll learn to tackle a problem that's affecting all the group.
Yeah, we're going to learn something from it. I mean, there's even a little
wisdom. He said, if you've got a problem, it's good.
(05:42):
Yeah. Because it's going to lead to, you know, improving your group, you know.
And the more we put it off, the more we put off taking on some sort of challenging
issue in the group, the more challenging it will become, you know,
the harder it will be to take on.
The harder it will be to take on and that's when you can get people going,
(06:03):
yeah, I don't know if I'll keep coming, you know, And then people slowly sort
of start disappearing and you think, oh, so-and-so doesn't come anymore.
It's because you've got this issue and you're not dealing with it and people
are, like, getting uncomfortable.
So it's really important.
And I think that the long-term benefit of learning to deal with a group issue
(06:29):
or a problem and discuss it as a group and it might be a bit uncomfortable or
awkward sometimes, not always,
But getting to the point where you actually discuss it, come up with an agreed
practical task or solution. Yep.
That everyone goes, right, fair enough.
I'm prepared to do that or whatever. But everyone has their say.
(06:52):
Is that ability to do that when you go home,
if you end up having a family or, you know, in a share house or you're at work and working in a team,
the ability to be able to talk about a problem as a group, not get personal,
(07:13):
not overreact, you know, not get upset, fly off the handle, walk out and then
have to come back and say I'm sorry or never come back again.
All the things that we all do, if you learn to do this in the group,
it really can change your whole outlook on life and,
(07:33):
as you said, maintains the we of the group. We're in this together. We've come up with this.
It's not just Dave coming in saying, right, you all need to do this.
You're all naughty, whatever it is. So, yeah, it's a great point.
Yeah, I mean, and you touched on something too when you started there about,
(07:55):
you know, being a practical task and a part of the program.
I mean, when you do have a group problem and you talk about it, You discuss it.
You understand the problem, right? Any problem in the first instance is a problem
of understanding, right?
So it does give us practice of, you know, communicating these difficult things sometimes.
But just like a personal problem, you come up with a practical task for the
(08:17):
group as a whole, and then you come up with part of the program to support it,
to support that change, you know, that whatever that little change is.
I mean, there's lots of different, you know, group problems that come up over the years.
I mean, a fairly common one, yeah, the group not starting on time, you know.
(08:39):
Probably the most common, yeah. People getting there late, you know.
Ideally, you want people there, you know, if the group starts at,
say, 10 o'clock, you want everyone there at 10 to 10.
So that might be the practical task, okay. From now on, we're all going to arrive
10 minutes early and we'll help you organise and set up the chairs and, yeah.
But then you would take in, you know, if there's a group member that's catching
(09:02):
a bus and they can't, you'd make allowances for that.
But the idea is that as a group, we've decided.
But having said that, as a group, we're all getting there at 20 past 10. Yeah.
And consistently, you might. So do we need to shift the time of the group?
(09:22):
Yeah. Because none of us can actually be here at 10 o'clock.
Yes. And we're all getting here at 10.20 or 10.30.
We've got newcomers standing on the door waiting around. They're getting more
and more anxious and nervous while they're waiting for people to turn up, and they take off.
Unfortunately, I've seen that happen many times. Yeah.
(09:42):
Yeah, look, it's an issue worth talking about and getting a solution for because
we do get some government funding,
we have an obligation to the community, we advertise our groups starting at a particular time.
So yeah, it's worth bringing up if it is a group problem.
(10:02):
But it's one example of many and it's probably one of the more simple problems.
There are more complex problems that come up at times and more serious problems
like confidentiality being breached, you know, that would need to be brought up fairly quickly.
It might be a matter of helping the group understand, if it's a fairly,
(10:23):
a lot of new members, understanding what that clause in the Grow commitment
means about confidentiality, you know. Some people mightn't completely understand what it means.
So talking about in-group problems, like you say, it builds up that we of the
group and that common understanding about, you know, why we do things.
(10:43):
So, yeah, in the first instance, most group problems can be resolved at the group level.
Now, if it's ongoing and it can't be resolved there and it's a matter of a more
serious nature that the group needs help with from outside, the next step is
to take it to your ONR team, you know.
(11:04):
The Organising Recorder Meeting. The Organising Recorder's Meeting,
you know. And that's where we
get support from the other leaders in the area, in the region, you know.
And it's, I don't know, my thinking always was that if a group problem is being
shared at an ONR team, it needs to have been discussed at the group level during
(11:27):
that group problems and ONR recommended solutions.
First? Yeah, first, you know. Ideally, the group knows that the organiser and
recorder are going to talk about to take this issue to the ONR team.
So, yeah, that can be really helpful. And you go into the ONR team prepared
and ready because it's a working meeting, the organisers and recorders meeting.
(11:51):
Quite a lot of important business gets done. Yeah.
And that can be great support for the organiser.
The temptation, I guess, the opposite temptation is to think,
oh, we've got this problem, this problem.
Take them all to the ONR, organise a recorded meeting, discuss them,
(12:12):
and come back with ready-made solutions,
so that when you bring up the problem, you've already got the solution and the
group's a bit sort of slapped across the face, you know, like, hang on, what?
We didn't even know this was happening. So, yeah, that's maybe the extreme.
I'm sure if you occasionally brought up a problem and said, look,
(12:35):
I'm not sure how to approach this.
We've got an issue in the group i'm not sure how to bring it
up that would actually be something to bring
up at the leadership meeting wouldn't it
like your your personal issue of leadership and how do i challenge how do i
bring up an issue yeah yeah yeah that's the difference in there between problem
(12:58):
solving isn't it at group levels and you've got personal issues and group problems
during that part of the meeting.
At R&R meetings, you work on group problems usually.
And if there's a problem... Related to the running of the group. Yeah.
And then leadership meetings, you bring up problems of leadership.
(13:18):
If you're struggling to lead a meeting or to communicate with a group,
yeah, it's your own personal issue around leadership.
So that's at your leadership meetings. But certainly your R&R meetings,
you'd be surprised, you know, that objective feedback from the other groups
and some recommended solutions to an issue that other groups might have experienced
(13:41):
already and have found solutions for.
They can share it with you. They often have, yeah. They often have.
Yeah, it's that collective wisdom, isn't it, of the team?
Absolutely. I mean, as we say in Grow, you know, You know, problems should be
tried to be dealt with at the level at which they arise.
(14:02):
So if it's a problem between you and me, it should be tried to be dealt with
between you and me first.
And if that breaks down and fails for some reason, then we can perhaps appeal
to some of the seasoned leadership that we have in the group,
in the organiser recorder meeting, branch programming team and so on.
(14:22):
But we're always trying to bring it up at the level at which it's happening.
So if there's a group issue, it should be the group that discusses it first.
And if they really can't make headway or they're not understanding it,
then yes, by all means, say, oh, maybe we can refer this to the organiser and
reporter team and see if any other groups are having the same issue.
(14:42):
Because you can almost guarantee they have or have in the past and they say,
oh, yeah, we had that, this is what we did.
So, but the important thing is to have the courage to say something in the group
problems section. Yeah.
(15:02):
The easy thing or the thing that happens most often is go, oh,
I'll tell the program worker we've got this problem and there you go, I've done my bit.
Well, a good program worker will come back and bring it up at the group problems
section, have the group discuss it.
Yeah. Not go away and fix it. Yeah. Yeah.
(15:26):
Yeah, that's doing things for or to people, isn't it?
We're in Grow, we're very much about the we've relationship,
you know, working things out together, you know, because we all learn something
from it then, you know. That's what it's for.
Everything we do in Grow has two purposes at least.
(15:47):
One is to do the thing and the other is for our own personal development.
To be able to develop ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to,
I mean, resolving any of these issues in group is going to help each of us and
the group grow in those foundations of maturity,
you know, understanding, acceptance, confidence, control and love.
(16:10):
So it's going to help build one of those, one or more of those resources.
And the way it's done is, you know, the living it out is that,
you know, When the R&R or the group has solved the problem or found a solution,
they find a practical task and a part of the program to support,
(16:30):
to underpin that change that we're about to make.
And the R&R team need to do the same thing as well.
Once an organiser has shared the group problem, they'll come up with a solution.
Once they understand the problem, they might ask a question or two or three.
But you really need to understand the problem before you can find the right solution.
(16:51):
And then you come up with a practical task and then you come up with a part
of the program for the whole group to think about.
Yeah. You know, some sort of growth philosophy to underpin and support the change
that we're about to make.
Yeah. So just to recap, what are some common group problems you might bring up?
(17:11):
We talked about the issue of perhaps the group not starting on time.
Yeah. What might be another one that is a good thing to bring up in that group problem section?
Or perhaps some that you've had experience with when you're a program worker?
Sometimes a breach of confidentiality.
It's just reminding people the confidential nature of the groups.
(17:36):
A problem might be that we're down to just being a small group. We need new members.
As a voluntary organization, we're constantly rebuilding.
Aren't we? Yeah. And that's the very, you know, the nature, that's the very
nature of any voluntary organisation is we're constantly rebuilding.
(17:59):
So it might be the group saying, you know, the organiser saying,
look, we haven't been doing any 12-step work, you know.
I'm sure Grow does some promotion for us and the program worker does their outreach,
but the groups themselves during their 12-step work might want to organise doing
some of their own 12-step work promoting their group, whether it be,
you know, some posters and pamphlets what's around town or doing a little, you know,
(18:23):
little chat on community radio or something like that, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. And then basically any section of this running of the meeting that you
feel is not being done or perhaps is being skipped,
(18:43):
perhaps we're avoiding a certain section of the group method constantly or something,
that's the perfect time to bring that up in that section.
Yeah. You know, like, hey, we're not doing problem solving.
We keep avoiding it. We just ask each other how the week is and then we go straight on.
Yeah. Or, you know, why do we always skip the middle routine?
(19:07):
You know, there might be good reasons, but let's discuss it as a group and make
sure that we, you know, anything out of here that we think. Yeah.
Well, it could be the 12-step work, you know. I mean, I've seen groups talk
about, you know, look, geez, we haven't had a group social together for a while.
Absolutely. That's a group issue, you know, because there's a certain amount
(19:28):
of work you can get done during that two-hour group meeting.
But for the development of the caring and sharing community of grow,
it's about just meeting each other in an ordinary way for friendship.
You know, the solution might be, oh, okay, I can get to the cafe down a little
bit earlier each week. if people want to meet for a cuppa before group or...
(19:49):
You know, I'll organise hosting a barbecue at the local park,
you know, Sunday week or something.
You know, you can be creative and talk about it together when it's the group.
But, yeah, 12-step work, you know, building up, you know, getting some social
activities into the group, that can be a group issue, you know,
because it's just about work and problem solving all the time.
(20:09):
I think, you know, for proper balance, you need someone to fund stuff too, you know.
You do. You need to balance the building the community,
but you've got to maintain, at the same time, maintain that we're bringing up
problems and we're dealing with
(20:30):
them and giving practical tasks and challenging each other to be a bit,
to be more definite when we're sharing those things,
not just to kind of swipe by and go, oh, yeah.
An issue. But we didn't discuss anything. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I just thought then, you know, an issue for the group might be
that none of us ever go to the leadership meetings, you know,
(20:54):
or none of our group has ever written a leadership paper.
You know, so there's all sorts of good ordinary problems too.
Yeah, yeah. They can help us develop in lots of ways. But we've just got to
remember the main focus for today is to remind people that it's there in the
group method, you know, for anyone in the group to bring up an issue.
(21:16):
And certainly any issue or problem
taken to the R&R meeting needs to be discussed with the group first.
Yeah, any issue that's affecting the way the group's running. Yeah.
It could be the venue. You know, the venue isn't suitable. It's noisy.
You know, there's another group that meets next door that, you know,
(21:36):
they're playing bowls or, you know, indoor bowls and making a lot of racket
and, you know, that sort of thing.
You know, it could be many things, but certainly, you know.
Yeah, it doesn't always have to be, you know, like you said,
breach of confidentiality or somebody sort of taking over the group and not
letting anyone else have a say but there might be some things that still affect it.
(21:58):
If you're going to a venue, it's too noisy, you can't hear or it's freezing
cold and you can't concentrate, those things affect the running of the meeting.
So, you know, it might be something that you guys can come up with.
When you discuss together, hey, are we happy here in this place?
Can we have a look around maybe once?
(22:19):
You never know what people in the group of, you know, but sometimes we just,
if we don't address it, we don't talk about it, we don't ask, we won't know.
Or similarly, if you don't address it, people will discuss it outside of the meeting.
Yeah. Even though we say, please don't do that. and then you run the risk of
(22:40):
these couple and this couple and everybody got, like you said,
a little faction and kind of breaks the group apart.
So bring it up, discuss it, move on.
I mean, the other way that part of the meeting can be used,
and you might not have a group problem, but I have
(23:00):
seen that part of the meeting get handed over to the group recorder
after an ONR meeting and for the recorder to give the group some feedback on
any issues that came up from the attendance sheets or from the weekly evaluation
that we end on or the program work at the end of the bi-monthly period.
(23:22):
So it's very important for the organiser and recorder, when they come back from
an ONR meeting, organiser and recorder's meeting,
to actually use that part of the meeting to give the group some feedback back
on how the ONR meeting went and any big issues for the whole area that came up, you know. Yeah.
(23:43):
Yeah, I think, what about, just to finish off, we've got to wrap this up so
we can keep to our promise of being quick.
What about the program worker? Can they say anything at this point?
Can they bring anything up?
Well, it is a good opportunity if there's, you know, sometimes groups get in
the habit of doing things and there might be a habit that needs correcting,
(24:09):
that needs to be changed.
So what's good about having a program worker come in is that,
you know, you ask them for feedback at the end of the meeting to get some effective
feedback on how the group's going.
And also the program worker might come in and point out a group issue during
that part of the meeting.
And that's okay, isn't it? As long as it's necessary and they're willing to
(24:36):
help them discuss it and help them come up with a solution.
It's not just a frustration. It was a group issue. Yeah, all sorts of things can creep in.
We've seen it where you don't necessarily think it's a problem until somebody
else sees it from the outside.
(24:57):
So, you know, we've had groups where they've been meeting for a while,
they get really good friendship, you know, they're really good relationship,
friendships, and then the organiser might...
Oh i can't be there this week and they'll
call up the other group members and say oh look i'm not
going to be able to be there this week and so
(25:19):
that group member might go oh okay well they're not going there yeah maybe i
won't go and then in i think we've discussed this before but it's a fairly common
problem is you do a bit of a ring around decide not to go yeah everybody decided not to go oh,
you know, it'll only be the three of us if that person's not there or whatever.
(25:41):
Yeah, maybe we'll just meet again next week. And then, you know,
you can guarantee, I know it sounds like Murphy's Law, but you can guarantee
that's the week somebody finally has the courage to turn up. Yeah.
Yeah, there's that, and there is that. There's the other idea that,
you know, we have a responsibility community, you know, to the wider community
(26:05):
to at least have someone at the meeting to agree on any first times it might turn up.
I think the point is that the group might not see there's a problem because
they've let each other know, they've all done the right thing, you know.
But, of course, they might not realise.
We've had a couple of weeks when you've done that where, somebody's turned up
(26:27):
ready for the meeting and they've said oh you know what time's oh they should
be starting at 10 and you know that well should be starting at one and they don't count,
and so it's perfectly reasonable
for the program worker to go hey you guys got a
bit of a problem here we're missing out on
new members because yeah we're doing this this issues look that's just that's
(26:50):
just one of many things you can discuss but it's just the point was more that
the program Program worker can bring up an issue if they need to in that space
as well for the group to discuss, which they may not even be aware of.
And, of course, the other forum for that to discuss things is at the organiser
recorder meeting when group brings their two-monthly reflection evaluation of
(27:15):
the group and the program worker simile and they discuss and compare and contrast together.
Yeah. All right, well, I think that's about enough for group problems and issues
and recommended solutions from the ONR meeting.
So, again, we'll appeal to anybody if they want to share something with us, send us an email.
(27:39):
You can just do it on the website and say this is a suggestion for the podcast.
You can contact me via email or call in the Grow office in South Australia,
and we'll happily discuss those points here if there are any benefit.
(28:02):
Yeah, ask a program worker to pass on any suggestions as well.
Yeah, pass on to your program worker to bring up as well.
All right, well, thanks again, Dave. We'll look forward to talking to you next time.
That's all right, mate. Yeah, look forward to it. Enjoy golf this afternoon.
Yes, I will. Thanks, mate. Talk to you later. See you.
(28:25):
We hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast. For further information on Grow.
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