November 13, 2025 • 32 mins
Welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast, hosted by Daryl and Dave. In this episode, they delve into the evolution of language within Grow's 12-step program, highlighting key changes and the rationale behind them. Learn about the history and updates to terms such as "inadequacy," "maladjustment," and "personal disorder," and how these reflect Grow's commitment to inclusivity and clarity.
Daryl and Dave discuss the importance of the first step in the 12-step program, which involves admitting personal problems and the need for change. They explore the significance of personal responsibility, the challenges of adjusting to life, and how Grow's principles support mental health recovery and leadership development.
Tune in to understand the vital role of language in shaping mental health support and how Grow's evolving terminology aims to meet the needs of its diverse membership. Join the conversation and gain insights into creating a supportive and effective Grow group.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, and welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast for all our
Grow leaders and friends.
Here, you'll find all sorts of in-depth discussions and tips on a wide range
of topics, from personal leadership development in mental health recovery to
running your Grow group effectively.
(00:21):
Now, here's your hosts, Daryl and Dave.
Welcome to the podcast, Dave. Good to have you along. G'day,
mate. Good to be here. Yeah.
And I think it's been just looking over some of the topics we've released,
chatted about, some of the special guests we've had on and things.
(00:44):
It's been quite a good way for people to access a little bit of extra training.
The whole idea was to create an extra pathway to training.
You know, we've got our traditional training, training weekends,
training days, workshops and things that we do.
But this was just really another avenue to try and reach people that perhaps
(01:07):
sometimes time poor or they can't get around.
And so as ubiquitous, there's a big word, someone told me that.
As podcasts are these days and everybody's listening to them in the car or going
on a walk to the beach or something, yeah, it's been a really good way to reach people.
So I think looking at that, they give you little statistic graphs and showing
(01:31):
that the number of people listening to these podcasts in particular, these training ones,
is growing all the time considering how many people we have in Grow.
Yeah, so it's fantastic.
I think last month was one of the highest. So, yeah, really cool.
So if you're listening out there, welcome, and really great to have you along.
(01:53):
Hopefully this is being helpful.
So in the spirit of that.
We've got a topic today and we're both conscious of not coming,
as we said earlier, we're conscious
of not coming across as two old guys yelling at the clouds because.
(02:14):
You know, things change and, you know, we've got a principle in Grow that sometimes
we need to change to remain true.
Yeah. And in the spirit of that, there's some language that exists this in some
of the Grow publications, too many to mention.
So we're just focusing on a couple today. Yeah.
(02:34):
That often gets brought up and says, oh, you know, I don't know about this word
or, you know, that word's a problem.
And Grow's been through this many times. Grow's been around 65-plus years now.
So, yeah, we've been through this several times.
And we're currently going through an update of our program Blue Book program,
(02:59):
which is consequently one of the largest,
if not one of the largest peer project where the people involved in the project
are the people using the material and people taking a vote on the material and
having the final say on the program we use.
(03:22):
So it's not handed off to the CEO or a board to take recommendations and then
work it up the way they like it.
Thanks to David Butt for being very strong on that principle.
It's the season grow leaders, the people that have got skin in the game,
(03:43):
so to speak, that have the final say on what material is used and the final vote.
So consequently, it's very important that language is addressed and we get things right. So... Hmm.
At the heart of our program is our 12 steps. Yeah.
Now, the first steps had some undergone some transformations, hasn't it?
(04:07):
It has, yeah. I mean, language has evolved over time.
And, you know, I mean, and there's, you know, some words have,
you know, people have had emotional reactions to them.
And I certainly, you know, understand that. I know that when I first came to
Grow, when I first saw that first
(04:28):
step, you know, we admitted we were inadequate or maladjusted to life.
I had a bit of a reaction to it. It sounded pretty harsh to me.
But I think it was just a problem of understanding and me just keeping an open
mind until I did understand what it was about.
And as things evolved and as I learned that, you know, the program is written by the growers.
(04:49):
We write down what works, what's worked for us over time.
And certainly when GROW started, what worked for them was when they brought
together, when GROW, you know, those first early groups were about really focused
on helping the severely mentally ill in our community.
And they were the ones who started to document what was helping them.
And certainly the first thing they had to admit or they decided they needed
(05:13):
to admit was that they had terrible issues.
They had terrible or severe mental illness back in the day and there were no support groups.
We were the only support group around that started and back then it was known
as recovery and they were very focused on recovering their mental health.
(05:34):
So the first step of the program when we first started I started documenting
what helps and what works.
The first step said that we admitted we were mentally ill. Yeah.
Which was true of the membership and the leadership at the time.
And then as the groups evolved and grew and more people were attracted to attend
(05:55):
the meetings, we found that there were quite a few people coming to the groups
who hadn't had a breakdown or hadn't had them develop the mental illness.
Perhaps a formal diagnosis of mental illness at the time.
So we're talking, we're not talking today, we're talking 50 plus years ago.
Yeah, back in the day when it was first written.
(06:15):
I mean, it started with, you know, we had prison groups, you know,
Albert Lacey, one of our old leaders from way back, he was a lawyer in Sydney
and was very interested in using grow as a, or recovery as a means of prisoner rehabilitation.
So we had some ex-cons or what they call it, cons at the time.
We wouldn't call them that now, but they came to the groups and they were getting
(06:39):
a lot from the program helping them with their rehabilitation.
At the time, and once they got involved in the leaders meetings and started
to contribute their own documents and readings, they said, look.
We might be inadequate or we might be quite maladjusted to life,
but we're certainly not mentally ill, all right?
(07:00):
We certainly need this program, but we just can't admit that we're mentally ill.
And in discussion. Some would have been, but it didn't necessarily apply to everyone.
No, no. It didn't apply to all that were attending, you know,
because while GROW initially was a program of rehabilitation,
it developed over time into a program of prevention, you know,
(07:23):
and that's where the words, you know, were added. And rehabilitation.
Yeah, prevention and rehabilitation. So the words were inadequate or maladjusted
to life were added into that first step, or that's how the first step evolved.
And then, you know, some years later, when, you know, the Blue Book was up for
(07:43):
review, the inadequate or maladjustment was changed to, you know,
we admitted to, you know, disorder in our lives.
Personal disorder, yeah. Personal disorder, you know.
Which is, it's a humble admission that anyone going to any 12-step program to
get help from it would need to make that admission.
Because it was difficult. Yeah, it was difficult, wasn't it,
(08:06):
to, you know, obviously fairly obvious to go, we admitted we were mentally ill.
Well, that's quite limiting.
Completely appropriate for the time and for the people that were coming.
But as the base grew, if you're not mentally ill,
there's a big difference between mentally ill and not mentally ill and just
(08:30):
not coping with things versus having a, you know,
being diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
There's a big difference there. So having to admit I'm mentally ill,
perhaps when I'm not, It's a bit of a problem.
(08:50):
So the membership was canvassed.
I said the input from some of those newer members that were actually in prison at the time.
So it was adjusted to say, well, look, we need to admit, though,
that we're inadequate in some form or we're maladjusted to life in some form.
(09:13):
Yeah. And so we had time to explain that.
It was used as language that was used a little bit more at the time.
I won't say extensively, but it was used. And over time, admitting we're inadequate
or maladjusted as step one,
(09:36):
there's nothing wrong with that because those principles exist,
but the way that was said, people weren't catching quite what it meant.
Like you said, some people were kind of reacting to the language and thinking,
oh, what am I saying here?
And so in an effort to make it clearer, again,
all the GROW members had the opportunity to have input, the Seas and Grow leaders
(09:59):
vote and said, you know, we need to admit that we've got a level of personal disorder in our lives.
We need to at least, that step one is acknowledging not everything is going
right and we're not living in an order that's helping us maintain our mental health. That's it.
(10:20):
It's disordered. It's out of order. so that went on for a long time then cultures change,
times change the way things are described in the world and then the mental health
sector changes so then people start saying I'm not sure about this particular
(10:42):
phrase anymore and so we're looking at something that's far more perhaps straightforward it forward.
The crux is if you're coming to grow, you're,
You've got to admit that you, me, the person coming, has personal problems I need to deal with.
(11:04):
Then it's not necessarily my neighbour or all those sort of things.
Even if that person's there, I'm having a problem I need to deal with.
And whether that's mental illness per se, say, something that's more in terms
of what you said, prevention, rehabilitation, all the things.
(11:27):
It's admitting that I've got some things to deal with.
Yeah. Yeah. But under that are all these things that still really exist,
which is what we want to talk about today because we know that in the,
it used to be called the brown book,
but it's slowly morphed into being called the yellow book.
(11:50):
The brown book with the mustard cover. The brown book with the mustard cover,
and now people just more straightforwardly call it the yellow book.
First reading in there is inadequacy or maladjustment. And so you can think
to yourself, oh, you know, we need to change that.
Well, hold on. No, it's still talking about a really important principle,
and that's what we wanted to discuss today.
(12:11):
Yeah. Because these things are going to, existing bro literature is still going.
Some will be phased out a little bit. some will be there'll be new stuff coming
on but some of these are really important principles so,
I mean, we can adjust to the, you know, the ordinary way of,
you know, dealing and coping with life or not, depending on all sorts of complicated
(12:35):
things, you know, the upbringing,
the example we, you know, we had as we were growing up, the,
you know, our life experience up to that point has left gaps in how we,
how we cope, you know, and if we don't know know, the right way or a,
you know, objective right way to do it,
(12:55):
we'll, we'll adjust ourselves to, you know, to what we know and accumulate habits that way. That's true.
Habits of thinking, habits of talk, habits of socializing, you know, doing,
you know, I mean, there's, if you looked at the word maladjusted,
(13:17):
I'd say that, you know, I mean, And it can be described when we describe people
who are really unwell and sick. You know, they're maladjusted to life.
That's what we used to say. Maladjustment was about being either really wrong
about something or sick.
And mental illness, I've heard it broken down into its simplest form,
(13:38):
is an accumulation of habits of thinking and talk and behavior and treating
others over a long period of time.
Now, we either worked it out ourselves or we have a good example of that in
role models that we grow up with, but some of us don't.
Some of us grow up in quite unfriendly environments, you know,
(13:58):
so we cope the best way we can.
But objectively, it is causing us to become maladjusted to life as a whole.
Yeah, so some really important things to say here,
because obviously GROW is a non-clinical organisation,
organization yeah and we're definitely
(14:19):
in that space
and so we're not we're not making any pretensions to talking about causality
or chemical makeup genetics all these different things we're just simply talking
from our experience says that if we do these things we'll get these results.
(14:42):
And so being able to have that level of being able to admit that there's some gaps,
which, you know, we used to talk about inadequacy, meaning, and there was no
sense that there was fault proportioned to that.
It's more that I just got to acknowledge that there's some stuff I don't know.
(15:04):
I haven't been taught or I don't,
I've avoided learning it or whatever it is, and I'm not sufficient on my own in this area.
I'm missing it, and I need help.
That's why I come to the group. I say, look, I can't do this on my own.
(15:27):
I've got some gaps in my knowledge here or my understanding.
So you come into the group, and the group helps fill that in for you,
You fill in the gaps and you can model from people that are there.
You can listen and learn.
You can learn from the literature of wisdom left behind.
And then the second part of it was, as you were saying, this idea of not quite
(15:51):
being adjusted to life correctly.
And again, that might be because of somebody's action toward me.
It might be because of my own action.
Wasn't to make people feel bad it's just to say i just didn't need to acknowledge
that perhaps i've developed some ways of dealing with situations which are not
(16:14):
helpful and not healthy and they need to be adjusted to more helpful and more healthy,
and so an easy one to grab onto is something like anger.
Anger, you can use anger as an explosive means of getting what you want in the moment.
(16:35):
And if you're angry enough or big enough or scary enough or seem, you know,
You might be able to get the thing that you want in that very moment,
but over time, that's an adjustment, a bad adjustment.
(16:56):
I shouldn't say bad, but it's an unhealthy adjustment, an unhealthy way of dealing
with problems that, you know.
It might get what we want. It might get what we want. And then obviously there's
occasion where you need, where being angry is the right thing to do to change
an unacceptable situation.
But over time, if that's your constant way you deal with problems,
(17:19):
you're going to end up with no relationships or terrible ones,
and be very isolated and then back to square one in terms of being susceptible
to mental health issues.
Well, yeah, you'd relate that to lots of things, I suppose.
You talk about anger, but it could be fear, anxiety. Oh, anything, yeah.
(17:40):
You know, an overactive imagination, whatever, there are ways.
And I like what you said before about, you know, like there might be some personal
action in our decline, you know, into some sort of disorder or maladjustment
or inadequacy, but there's also stuff that can be inflicted on people too, you know what I mean?
You look at, you know, some people have grown up in domestic violence situations
(18:03):
where the only example they've seen of, you know, dealing with issues in the
house It's through anger and violence.
And then they adopt those habits unbeknown and it causes them in the end to
a decline to the point where they need a grow group.
Our best behavior, a mating crow, his best thinking, talk, behavior led him
(18:27):
into needing a grow group.
So there is some personal action there, but the causes do go back.
I mean, when we talk about the causes, we look at a complex of causes, don't we?
We do. We're not ascribing them, are we?
We're really saying it's your journey, your responsibility to start to unpack
(18:52):
them and get some insight and kind of see what they are.
Whatever they are whether it's cause on you or or by you you still got to tread
the path of admitting that there's an issue there and i've got some work to do and if we're,
(19:14):
maladjusted or if we're not adjusted properly to life if we need to make some
adjustments in our behavior and our thinking our talk or our relationships which
are the three basic changes
the program's set up for you right there that's all that's where you start,
like one of those if you need adjusting if
(19:36):
you can admit that i've got some adjustments to make then that's where you start
those three basic changes yeah it's accepting that we need to change isn't it
yeah yeah and it's the same for any of them or if you know if we if we understand
Stan, there's disorder in my life.
And it's not saying you have a disorder. It was more around accepting that things
(20:00):
aren't ordered in the way that are helping me stay mentally healthy and well.
So I need to get order. I need to put things first things first or don't put
the cart before the horse.
I've got to get things in the right order so that I can start to make progress in my life.
(20:21):
It's very hard when you've got chaos. Yeah, it could be as simple a practical
task as getting up at a reasonable time every day, you know.
Or, you know, when we get up, make the bed, you know. It's just making those adjustments.
And, yeah, so the principles don't change.
(20:43):
No. That's what we're trying to get to. The language, you know,
you don't really say to someone, well, you're inadequate.
Adequate but for
us we say well i don't i've got gaps in my knowledge and
my and my skills i don't know how to
do this and admitting that is the
first step admitting i've got
(21:03):
some disorder in my life that's part
of me personally that's a
first step and so basically admitting i've got personal problems to work on
is the first step we can't change anybody else step one is admitting though
(21:24):
something I need to change it doesn't matter it's sorry.
It it's not about finding blame
or those sorts of things that they will naturally be
part of your process of of perhaps
getting insight into why you're in the position but after all that it's like
(21:44):
well the only one that i can change is me and so step one i start the journey
and then you work down through those 12 steps yeah it's like the first of your
foundation of maturity your understanding and acceptance, you know.
Once we can accept, I mean, no matter what's happened to me,
you know, only responsible living today can change what's happened to me in the past.
(22:08):
Yeah. And that's a very personal thing. That humble admission is a very personal
thing that, yes, I'm inadequate or maladjusted to life or I have disorder in my life.
It's a very humbling admission, but it gives you a starting place, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, and that's really it.
And so people, as I say, people might pick up the yellow book.
(22:34):
They might pick up some other versions of materials that we've got.
They might see these words inadequacy, maladjustment, personal disorder, these types of things.
And that's why we're going to leave some of them there because they are important principles.
Yeah. But, you know, going forward, step one won't say that.
(22:56):
But it will always be about admitting and accepting that there's something that
is not going right for me and that I need to make some changes, isn't it? That's it.
Yeah, that I've got some personal problems I need to work on and that's where
I'm going to start. I can't change Dave. Mm-hmm.
(23:19):
I can hardly change me. Yeah. I mean, that was kind of impressed upon me earlier
on when I started attending the meetings. You know, who am I here to change?
You know, I can only change myself, really. Yeah.
As I change me, my thinking, my talk, my way of, you know, doing things,
(23:40):
my relationships change.
Yeah. It's amazing how people around us get so much better.
Sometimes it's true. They do. Sometimes they respond to us changing,
and sometimes we start seeing them in a better light and appreciating them,
and we change the way we relate to them completely.
We have really hopeful relationships.
(24:01):
We've all sat in the meeting and thought, oh, yeah, read the grow material.
I think that stuff's great. I need to get so-and-so to, you know,
I need to get so-and-so to read this. they've got, you know,
if they do that, my life will be so much better.
If they can change this, my life will be so much better.
(24:24):
And we all do it. It's a pretty natural thing to do is think,
oh, if that person would change, my life would be so much easier.
But, of course, good luck.
Good luck trying to change somebody else.
It doesn't work too well. but but our
lives change dramatically when we start to make small personal changes yeah
(24:48):
yeah and that starts with the step one you've got to have that step one that's
it that's it interestingly dave do you think step one always comes first,
I think, well, certainly that's the starting point when we take responsibility
(25:08):
for, you know, changing and adjusting and working on our,
you know, recovery or working on, you know, preventing any further breakdown
is coming to terms with that.
I mean, initially a friend might just bring us to grow to hear what's going
on and we can identify with some of the steps, you know, like learning to think
(25:29):
by reason rather than feelings and imagination. That makes sense to anybody.
Yeah. Care and control of our bodies. Yeah, exactly. It's step seven.
Physically healthy. But that kind of creates, you know, we're talking these
days in terms of mindfulness that kind of creates the space to allow that step one to sink in and go,
(25:54):
you know what, I've got to make some actual changes in me here that are not,
those things are good, but this is some stuff that I have to deal with.
So I think step one is the first step, but like you said, it can come along
a little bit later sometimes, times, but it always has to kind of be re-addressed.
(26:18):
Yeah, I suppose I was told too that the program meets us where we're at.
Yeah, it's a good point. And sometimes we haven't flow.
Yeah. There is, when you look at it, there is a natural order to the steps.
Of course. And the way I see it, if you break them down, the first six steps
are about gaining insight and prevention.
(26:39):
And then the last six are about rehabilitation and pretty serious change in our lives.
But we live in flow, you know, like, oh, you might be ticking along and growing
and progressing for a couple of years and then something significant happens
in your life and you take a step or two back.
Well, then you might have to go back to step one.
You know and just work through our process sounds step one step two take inventory
(27:02):
you know down to step four you know what's my part in this or you know have
an objective look at it yeah use your reason don't don't run on your feelings
yeah there's lots lots of nodes at 12 steps we can,
we can even flow back backwards and forwards through them at times depending
on our on what our direct needs yeah yeah yeah we don't have to rigidly rigidly
(27:25):
go from one to one the other to the other, it'll just meet us where we're at,
you know, what do I need this week?
Well, I need to get some exercise, so I'm going to work on step seven,
you know, or things like that.
Or I'm a bit isolated, so I'm going to work on step 12 and get out and have
a cup of one of my grow mates, you know.
(27:45):
Yeah, there's always... Share a story, share about grow with people that are in need.
You know, some growers do with their, they visit a hospital and share a story
and say, hey, I was where you are now, but there's hope.
Yeah. This is why I go to my group every week and this is how it's helped me
(28:06):
and how it's changed. It's as simple as that. Yeah.
It's probably the most important step, that's for sure.
But, yeah, absolutely. I like that idea that it kind of ebbs and flows and comes around it.
You know, it's about us building our capacity as people, And,
(28:26):
you know, sometimes it's very
hard to see where you're going if you don't know where you've come from.
So being able to admit, okay, here's a line of sand for me.
I'm going to admit there's some changes I need to make in myself. It's a big step.
You know, and, you know, maybe later you might sort of realise,
(28:48):
yeah, probably there's some gaps, you know, there's probably some inadequacies
there and there might be some adjustments I need to make in myself and not expecting
other people to make all the adjustments all the time.
So they are important principles.
Yeah, well, people might come to Grow and have their first impressions.
(29:09):
They might feel a bit sceptical. You know, that's why I always encourage people
to, you know, give it a few meetings.
You know, just take it one meeting
at a time until you've made a decision whether it grows for you or not.
You know, it's hard to see this whole program in that first two hours. That's for sure.
Yeah, it's personal responsibility. It's taking responsibility,
(29:29):
but that creates capacity in you and strength and resilience and power in yourself.
Taking control. Yep. of your life and your journey and your path,
all those good things that comes from being able to do that first step.
(29:51):
Well, that's the main thing we wanted to talk about today, just to give a little
bit of insight in language.
Particularly those phrases, inadequacy or maladjustment and why they existed.
By all means, have a look at that first reading in the yellow book,
some short little thing that's really great.
(30:14):
It gives you an insight as to what those grower members were thinking at the
time, how they were processing that and how they were opening up the ideas.
You could be either or.
You know, fit in, like you said, it's where you're at. Fit in where you can and get started.
(30:38):
Anyway, thanks again for joining us on this little podcast today.
I hope you've enjoyed it. Please.
For those listening, these are not intended to be policy or...
The final word even. Or the final word. There's some insight into the material.
(30:59):
By all means, discuss them in your groups, discuss them at your workshops and
training days and different things that you participate in, study days.
And any future topics or things that you'd like us to discuss,
us, please send through to, if you go on the Grow website,
you can submit little inquiries there or questions, and we'll get them and we'll do our best.
(31:25):
So, well, Dave, talk to you next time. Hope you stay warm.
Yes, yes. Winter is here. It is, isn't it?
But no, thanks, mate. It's always good. I always enjoy our catch-ups and these
sessions, and it's a great way, I suppose, of preserving and sharing,
you know, a combined whatever it is, 60-odd years of experience of growth.
(31:48):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm enjoying it. And look, yeah, any of you,
anyone has any topics they'd like us to talk about, you know,
talk to your program workers as well.
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll send on the suggestions because we're keen to help
fill in the gaps, you know.
And just to be clear too, I think 95% of what we've discussed have come through people saying,
(32:11):
hey, what's this, what's that, what's the other and so he's happily do it so
there you go all right we'll see you next time thanks dave thanks again see
ya we hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast,
for further information on grow groups or mental health.
(32:33):
Music.
Hi, and welcome to Grow's program training and resource podcast for all our
Grow leaders and friends.
Here, you'll find all sorts of in-depth discussions and tips on a wide range
of topics, from personal leadership development in mental health recovery to
running your Grow group effectively.
(00:21):
Now, here's your hosts, Daryl and Dave.
Welcome to the podcast, Dave. Good to have you along. G'day,
mate. Good to be here. Yeah.
And I think it's been just looking over some of the topics we've released,
chatted about, some of the special guests we've had on and things.
(00:44):
It's been quite a good way for people to access a little bit of extra training.
The whole idea was to create an extra pathway to training.
You know, we've got our traditional training, training weekends,
training days, workshops and things that we do.
But this was just really another avenue to try and reach people that perhaps
(01:07):
sometimes time poor or they can't get around.
And so as ubiquitous, there's a big word, someone told me that.
As podcasts are these days and everybody's listening to them in the car or going
on a walk to the beach or something, yeah, it's been a really good way to reach people.
So I think looking at that, they give you little statistic graphs and showing
(01:31):
that the number of people listening to these podcasts in particular, these training ones,
is growing all the time considering how many people we have in Grow.
Yeah, so it's fantastic.
I think last month was one of the highest. So, yeah, really cool.
So if you're listening out there, welcome, and really great to have you along.
(01:53):
Hopefully this is being helpful.
So in the spirit of that.
We've got a topic today and we're both conscious of not coming,
as we said earlier, we're conscious
of not coming across as two old guys yelling at the clouds because.
(02:14):
You know, things change and, you know, we've got a principle in Grow that sometimes
we need to change to remain true.
Yeah. And in the spirit of that, there's some language that exists this in some
of the Grow publications, too many to mention.
So we're just focusing on a couple today. Yeah.
(02:34):
That often gets brought up and says, oh, you know, I don't know about this word
or, you know, that word's a problem.
And Grow's been through this many times. Grow's been around 65-plus years now.
So, yeah, we've been through this several times.
And we're currently going through an update of our program Blue Book program,
(02:59):
which is consequently one of the largest,
if not one of the largest peer project where the people involved in the project
are the people using the material and people taking a vote on the material and
having the final say on the program we use.
(03:22):
So it's not handed off to the CEO or a board to take recommendations and then
work it up the way they like it.
Thanks to David Butt for being very strong on that principle.
It's the season grow leaders, the people that have got skin in the game,
(03:43):
so to speak, that have the final say on what material is used and the final vote.
So consequently, it's very important that language is addressed and we get things right. So... Hmm.
At the heart of our program is our 12 steps. Yeah.
Now, the first steps had some undergone some transformations, hasn't it?
(04:07):
It has, yeah. I mean, language has evolved over time.
And, you know, I mean, and there's, you know, some words have,
you know, people have had emotional reactions to them.
And I certainly, you know, understand that. I know that when I first came to
Grow, when I first saw that first
(04:28):
step, you know, we admitted we were inadequate or maladjusted to life.
I had a bit of a reaction to it. It sounded pretty harsh to me.
But I think it was just a problem of understanding and me just keeping an open
mind until I did understand what it was about.
And as things evolved and as I learned that, you know, the program is written by the growers.
(04:49):
We write down what works, what's worked for us over time.
And certainly when GROW started, what worked for them was when they brought
together, when GROW, you know, those first early groups were about really focused
on helping the severely mentally ill in our community.
And they were the ones who started to document what was helping them.
And certainly the first thing they had to admit or they decided they needed
(05:13):
to admit was that they had terrible issues.
They had terrible or severe mental illness back in the day and there were no support groups.
We were the only support group around that started and back then it was known
as recovery and they were very focused on recovering their mental health.
(05:34):
So the first step of the program when we first started I started documenting
what helps and what works.
The first step said that we admitted we were mentally ill. Yeah.
Which was true of the membership and the leadership at the time.
And then as the groups evolved and grew and more people were attracted to attend
(05:55):
the meetings, we found that there were quite a few people coming to the groups
who hadn't had a breakdown or hadn't had them develop the mental illness.
Perhaps a formal diagnosis of mental illness at the time.
So we're talking, we're not talking today, we're talking 50 plus years ago.
Yeah, back in the day when it was first written.
(06:15):
I mean, it started with, you know, we had prison groups, you know,
Albert Lacey, one of our old leaders from way back, he was a lawyer in Sydney
and was very interested in using grow as a, or recovery as a means of prisoner rehabilitation.
So we had some ex-cons or what they call it, cons at the time.
We wouldn't call them that now, but they came to the groups and they were getting
(06:39):
a lot from the program helping them with their rehabilitation.
At the time, and once they got involved in the leaders meetings and started
to contribute their own documents and readings, they said, look.
We might be inadequate or we might be quite maladjusted to life,
but we're certainly not mentally ill, all right?
(07:00):
We certainly need this program, but we just can't admit that we're mentally ill.
And in discussion. Some would have been, but it didn't necessarily apply to everyone.
No, no. It didn't apply to all that were attending, you know,
because while GROW initially was a program of rehabilitation,
it developed over time into a program of prevention, you know,
(07:23):
and that's where the words, you know, were added. And rehabilitation.
Yeah, prevention and rehabilitation. So the words were inadequate or maladjusted
to life were added into that first step, or that's how the first step evolved.
And then, you know, some years later, when, you know, the Blue Book was up for
(07:43):
review, the inadequate or maladjustment was changed to, you know,
we admitted to, you know, disorder in our lives.
Personal disorder, yeah. Personal disorder, you know.
Which is, it's a humble admission that anyone going to any 12-step program to
get help from it would need to make that admission.
Because it was difficult. Yeah, it was difficult, wasn't it,
(08:06):
to, you know, obviously fairly obvious to go, we admitted we were mentally ill.
Well, that's quite limiting.
Completely appropriate for the time and for the people that were coming.
But as the base grew, if you're not mentally ill,
there's a big difference between mentally ill and not mentally ill and just
(08:30):
not coping with things versus having a, you know,
being diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
There's a big difference there. So having to admit I'm mentally ill,
perhaps when I'm not, It's a bit of a problem.
(08:50):
So the membership was canvassed.
I said the input from some of those newer members that were actually in prison at the time.
So it was adjusted to say, well, look, we need to admit, though,
that we're inadequate in some form or we're maladjusted to life in some form.
(09:13):
Yeah. And so we had time to explain that.
It was used as language that was used a little bit more at the time.
I won't say extensively, but it was used. And over time, admitting we're inadequate
or maladjusted as step one,
(09:36):
there's nothing wrong with that because those principles exist,
but the way that was said, people weren't catching quite what it meant.
Like you said, some people were kind of reacting to the language and thinking,
oh, what am I saying here?
And so in an effort to make it clearer, again,
all the GROW members had the opportunity to have input, the Seas and Grow leaders
(09:59):
vote and said, you know, we need to admit that we've got a level of personal disorder in our lives.
We need to at least, that step one is acknowledging not everything is going
right and we're not living in an order that's helping us maintain our mental health. That's it.
(10:20):
It's disordered. It's out of order. so that went on for a long time then cultures change,
times change the way things are described in the world and then the mental health
sector changes so then people start saying I'm not sure about this particular
(10:42):
phrase anymore and so we're looking at something that's far more perhaps straightforward it forward.
The crux is if you're coming to grow, you're,
You've got to admit that you, me, the person coming, has personal problems I need to deal with.
(11:04):
Then it's not necessarily my neighbour or all those sort of things.
Even if that person's there, I'm having a problem I need to deal with.
And whether that's mental illness per se, say, something that's more in terms
of what you said, prevention, rehabilitation, all the things.
(11:27):
It's admitting that I've got some things to deal with.
Yeah. Yeah. But under that are all these things that still really exist,
which is what we want to talk about today because we know that in the,
it used to be called the brown book,
but it's slowly morphed into being called the yellow book.
(11:50):
The brown book with the mustard cover. The brown book with the mustard cover,
and now people just more straightforwardly call it the yellow book.
First reading in there is inadequacy or maladjustment. And so you can think
to yourself, oh, you know, we need to change that.
Well, hold on. No, it's still talking about a really important principle,
and that's what we wanted to discuss today.
(12:11):
Yeah. Because these things are going to, existing bro literature is still going.
Some will be phased out a little bit. some will be there'll be new stuff coming
on but some of these are really important principles so,
I mean, we can adjust to the, you know, the ordinary way of,
you know, dealing and coping with life or not, depending on all sorts of complicated
(12:35):
things, you know, the upbringing,
the example we, you know, we had as we were growing up, the,
you know, our life experience up to that point has left gaps in how we,
how we cope, you know, and if we don't know know, the right way or a,
you know, objective right way to do it,
(12:55):
we'll, we'll adjust ourselves to, you know, to what we know and accumulate habits that way. That's true.
Habits of thinking, habits of talk, habits of socializing, you know, doing,
you know, I mean, there's, if you looked at the word maladjusted,
(13:17):
I'd say that, you know, I mean, And it can be described when we describe people
who are really unwell and sick. You know, they're maladjusted to life.
That's what we used to say. Maladjustment was about being either really wrong
about something or sick.
And mental illness, I've heard it broken down into its simplest form,
(13:38):
is an accumulation of habits of thinking and talk and behavior and treating
others over a long period of time.
Now, we either worked it out ourselves or we have a good example of that in
role models that we grow up with, but some of us don't.
Some of us grow up in quite unfriendly environments, you know,
(13:58):
so we cope the best way we can.
But objectively, it is causing us to become maladjusted to life as a whole.
Yeah, so some really important things to say here,
because obviously GROW is a non-clinical organisation,
organization yeah and we're definitely
(14:19):
in that space
and so we're not we're not making any pretensions to talking about causality
or chemical makeup genetics all these different things we're just simply talking
from our experience says that if we do these things we'll get these results.
(14:42):
And so being able to have that level of being able to admit that there's some gaps,
which, you know, we used to talk about inadequacy, meaning, and there was no
sense that there was fault proportioned to that.
It's more that I just got to acknowledge that there's some stuff I don't know.
(15:04):
I haven't been taught or I don't,
I've avoided learning it or whatever it is, and I'm not sufficient on my own in this area.
I'm missing it, and I need help.
That's why I come to the group. I say, look, I can't do this on my own.
(15:27):
I've got some gaps in my knowledge here or my understanding.
So you come into the group, and the group helps fill that in for you,
You fill in the gaps and you can model from people that are there.
You can listen and learn.
You can learn from the literature of wisdom left behind.
And then the second part of it was, as you were saying, this idea of not quite
(15:51):
being adjusted to life correctly.
And again, that might be because of somebody's action toward me.
It might be because of my own action.
Wasn't to make people feel bad it's just to say i just didn't need to acknowledge
that perhaps i've developed some ways of dealing with situations which are not
(16:14):
helpful and not healthy and they need to be adjusted to more helpful and more healthy,
and so an easy one to grab onto is something like anger.
Anger, you can use anger as an explosive means of getting what you want in the moment.
(16:35):
And if you're angry enough or big enough or scary enough or seem, you know,
You might be able to get the thing that you want in that very moment,
but over time, that's an adjustment, a bad adjustment.
(16:56):
I shouldn't say bad, but it's an unhealthy adjustment, an unhealthy way of dealing
with problems that, you know.
It might get what we want. It might get what we want. And then obviously there's
occasion where you need, where being angry is the right thing to do to change
an unacceptable situation.
But over time, if that's your constant way you deal with problems,
(17:19):
you're going to end up with no relationships or terrible ones,
and be very isolated and then back to square one in terms of being susceptible
to mental health issues.
Well, yeah, you'd relate that to lots of things, I suppose.
You talk about anger, but it could be fear, anxiety. Oh, anything, yeah.
(17:40):
You know, an overactive imagination, whatever, there are ways.
And I like what you said before about, you know, like there might be some personal
action in our decline, you know, into some sort of disorder or maladjustment
or inadequacy, but there's also stuff that can be inflicted on people too, you know what I mean?
You look at, you know, some people have grown up in domestic violence situations
(18:03):
where the only example they've seen of, you know, dealing with issues in the
house It's through anger and violence.
And then they adopt those habits unbeknown and it causes them in the end to
a decline to the point where they need a grow group.
Our best behavior, a mating crow, his best thinking, talk, behavior led him
(18:27):
into needing a grow group.
So there is some personal action there, but the causes do go back.
I mean, when we talk about the causes, we look at a complex of causes, don't we?
We do. We're not ascribing them, are we?
We're really saying it's your journey, your responsibility to start to unpack
(18:52):
them and get some insight and kind of see what they are.
Whatever they are whether it's cause on you or or by you you still got to tread
the path of admitting that there's an issue there and i've got some work to do and if we're,
(19:14):
maladjusted or if we're not adjusted properly to life if we need to make some
adjustments in our behavior and our thinking our talk or our relationships which
are the three basic changes
the program's set up for you right there that's all that's where you start,
like one of those if you need adjusting if
(19:36):
you can admit that i've got some adjustments to make then that's where you start
those three basic changes yeah it's accepting that we need to change isn't it
yeah yeah and it's the same for any of them or if you know if we if we understand
Stan, there's disorder in my life.
And it's not saying you have a disorder. It was more around accepting that things
(20:00):
aren't ordered in the way that are helping me stay mentally healthy and well.
So I need to get order. I need to put things first things first or don't put
the cart before the horse.
I've got to get things in the right order so that I can start to make progress in my life.
(20:21):
It's very hard when you've got chaos. Yeah, it could be as simple a practical
task as getting up at a reasonable time every day, you know.
Or, you know, when we get up, make the bed, you know. It's just making those adjustments.
And, yeah, so the principles don't change.
(20:43):
No. That's what we're trying to get to. The language, you know,
you don't really say to someone, well, you're inadequate.
Adequate but for
us we say well i don't i've got gaps in my knowledge and
my and my skills i don't know how to
do this and admitting that is the
first step admitting i've got
(21:03):
some disorder in my life that's part
of me personally that's a
first step and so basically admitting i've got personal problems to work on
is the first step we can't change anybody else step one is admitting though
(21:24):
something I need to change it doesn't matter it's sorry.
It it's not about finding blame
or those sorts of things that they will naturally be
part of your process of of perhaps
getting insight into why you're in the position but after all that it's like
(21:44):
well the only one that i can change is me and so step one i start the journey
and then you work down through those 12 steps yeah it's like the first of your
foundation of maturity your understanding and acceptance, you know.
Once we can accept, I mean, no matter what's happened to me,
you know, only responsible living today can change what's happened to me in the past.
(22:08):
Yeah. And that's a very personal thing. That humble admission is a very personal
thing that, yes, I'm inadequate or maladjusted to life or I have disorder in my life.
It's a very humbling admission, but it gives you a starting place, you know. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, and that's really it.
And so people, as I say, people might pick up the yellow book.
(22:34):
They might pick up some other versions of materials that we've got.
They might see these words inadequacy, maladjustment, personal disorder, these types of things.
And that's why we're going to leave some of them there because they are important principles.
Yeah. But, you know, going forward, step one won't say that.
(22:56):
But it will always be about admitting and accepting that there's something that
is not going right for me and that I need to make some changes, isn't it? That's it.
Yeah, that I've got some personal problems I need to work on and that's where
I'm going to start. I can't change Dave. Mm-hmm.
(23:19):
I can hardly change me. Yeah. I mean, that was kind of impressed upon me earlier
on when I started attending the meetings. You know, who am I here to change?
You know, I can only change myself, really. Yeah.
As I change me, my thinking, my talk, my way of, you know, doing things,
(23:40):
my relationships change.
Yeah. It's amazing how people around us get so much better.
Sometimes it's true. They do. Sometimes they respond to us changing,
and sometimes we start seeing them in a better light and appreciating them,
and we change the way we relate to them completely.
We have really hopeful relationships.
(24:01):
We've all sat in the meeting and thought, oh, yeah, read the grow material.
I think that stuff's great. I need to get so-and-so to, you know,
I need to get so-and-so to read this. they've got, you know,
if they do that, my life will be so much better.
If they can change this, my life will be so much better.
(24:24):
And we all do it. It's a pretty natural thing to do is think,
oh, if that person would change, my life would be so much easier.
But, of course, good luck.
Good luck trying to change somebody else.
It doesn't work too well. but but our
lives change dramatically when we start to make small personal changes yeah
(24:48):
yeah and that starts with the step one you've got to have that step one that's
it that's it interestingly dave do you think step one always comes first,
I think, well, certainly that's the starting point when we take responsibility
(25:08):
for, you know, changing and adjusting and working on our,
you know, recovery or working on, you know, preventing any further breakdown
is coming to terms with that.
I mean, initially a friend might just bring us to grow to hear what's going
on and we can identify with some of the steps, you know, like learning to think
(25:29):
by reason rather than feelings and imagination. That makes sense to anybody.
Yeah. Care and control of our bodies. Yeah, exactly. It's step seven.
Physically healthy. But that kind of creates, you know, we're talking these
days in terms of mindfulness that kind of creates the space to allow that step one to sink in and go,
(25:54):
you know what, I've got to make some actual changes in me here that are not,
those things are good, but this is some stuff that I have to deal with.
So I think step one is the first step, but like you said, it can come along
a little bit later sometimes, times, but it always has to kind of be re-addressed.
(26:18):
Yeah, I suppose I was told too that the program meets us where we're at.
Yeah, it's a good point. And sometimes we haven't flow.
Yeah. There is, when you look at it, there is a natural order to the steps.
Of course. And the way I see it, if you break them down, the first six steps
are about gaining insight and prevention.
(26:39):
And then the last six are about rehabilitation and pretty serious change in our lives.
But we live in flow, you know, like, oh, you might be ticking along and growing
and progressing for a couple of years and then something significant happens
in your life and you take a step or two back.
Well, then you might have to go back to step one.
You know and just work through our process sounds step one step two take inventory
(27:02):
you know down to step four you know what's my part in this or you know have
an objective look at it yeah use your reason don't don't run on your feelings
yeah there's lots lots of nodes at 12 steps we can,
we can even flow back backwards and forwards through them at times depending
on our on what our direct needs yeah yeah yeah we don't have to rigidly rigidly
(27:25):
go from one to one the other to the other, it'll just meet us where we're at,
you know, what do I need this week?
Well, I need to get some exercise, so I'm going to work on step seven,
you know, or things like that.
Or I'm a bit isolated, so I'm going to work on step 12 and get out and have
a cup of one of my grow mates, you know.
(27:45):
Yeah, there's always... Share a story, share about grow with people that are in need.
You know, some growers do with their, they visit a hospital and share a story
and say, hey, I was where you are now, but there's hope.
Yeah. This is why I go to my group every week and this is how it's helped me
(28:06):
and how it's changed. It's as simple as that. Yeah.
It's probably the most important step, that's for sure.
But, yeah, absolutely. I like that idea that it kind of ebbs and flows and comes around it.
You know, it's about us building our capacity as people, And,
(28:26):
you know, sometimes it's very
hard to see where you're going if you don't know where you've come from.
So being able to admit, okay, here's a line of sand for me.
I'm going to admit there's some changes I need to make in myself. It's a big step.
You know, and, you know, maybe later you might sort of realise,
(28:48):
yeah, probably there's some gaps, you know, there's probably some inadequacies
there and there might be some adjustments I need to make in myself and not expecting
other people to make all the adjustments all the time.
So they are important principles.
Yeah, well, people might come to Grow and have their first impressions.
(29:09):
They might feel a bit sceptical. You know, that's why I always encourage people
to, you know, give it a few meetings.
You know, just take it one meeting
at a time until you've made a decision whether it grows for you or not.
You know, it's hard to see this whole program in that first two hours. That's for sure.
Yeah, it's personal responsibility. It's taking responsibility,
(29:29):
but that creates capacity in you and strength and resilience and power in yourself.
Taking control. Yep. of your life and your journey and your path,
all those good things that comes from being able to do that first step.
(29:51):
Well, that's the main thing we wanted to talk about today, just to give a little
bit of insight in language.
Particularly those phrases, inadequacy or maladjustment and why they existed.
By all means, have a look at that first reading in the yellow book,
some short little thing that's really great.
(30:14):
It gives you an insight as to what those grower members were thinking at the
time, how they were processing that and how they were opening up the ideas.
You could be either or.
You know, fit in, like you said, it's where you're at. Fit in where you can and get started.
(30:38):
Anyway, thanks again for joining us on this little podcast today.
I hope you've enjoyed it. Please.
For those listening, these are not intended to be policy or...
The final word even. Or the final word. There's some insight into the material.
(30:59):
By all means, discuss them in your groups, discuss them at your workshops and
training days and different things that you participate in, study days.
And any future topics or things that you'd like us to discuss,
us, please send through to, if you go on the Grow website,
you can submit little inquiries there or questions, and we'll get them and we'll do our best.
(31:25):
So, well, Dave, talk to you next time. Hope you stay warm.
Yes, yes. Winter is here. It is, isn't it?
But no, thanks, mate. It's always good. I always enjoy our catch-ups and these
sessions, and it's a great way, I suppose, of preserving and sharing,
you know, a combined whatever it is, 60-odd years of experience of growth.
(31:48):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm enjoying it. And look, yeah, any of you,
anyone has any topics they'd like us to talk about, you know,
talk to your program workers as well.
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll send on the suggestions because we're keen to help
fill in the gaps, you know.
And just to be clear too, I think 95% of what we've discussed have come through people saying,
(32:11):
hey, what's this, what's that, what's the other and so he's happily do it so
there you go all right we'll see you next time thanks dave thanks again see
ya we hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcast,
for further information on grow groups or mental health.
(32:33):
Music.
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