John Waters - The Abolition of Reality: A First Draft of the End of History

John Waters discusses his book "The Abolition of Reality: A First Draft of the End of History," exploring the cultural and societal upheavals caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. He critiques the roles of media, economics, and authority in fostering a climate of fear and control, linking contemporary economic practices to the abolition of the gold standard in 1971. Waters argues that the pandemic served as an orchestrated project undermining human rights, facilitated by a compliant media that prioritized sensationalism over truth. He highlights groupthink's impact on societal panic and the expansion of state control, likening the political response to a predatory instinct to seize power. Waters warns against the normalization of extreme measures and advocates for future awareness and resistance to overreach, emphasizing the importance of documenting these events to prevent history from repeating itself.

 

Connect with John... SUBSTACK              johnwaters.substack.com/ WEBSITE:                anti-corruptionireland.com/

 

Connect with Hearts of Oak... 𝕏                         x.com/HeartsofOakUK WEBSITE            heartsofoak.org/ PODCASTS        heartsofoak.podbean.com/ SOCIAL MEDIA  heartsofoak.org/connect/ SHOP                  heartsofoak.org/shop/

*Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast.

Check out his art theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com and follow him on 𝕏 x.com/TheBoschFawstin

 

Episode Transcript

Hearts of Oak: And hello, Hearts of Oak. Thanks so much for joining us once again, (00:21):
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Hearts of Oak: as great to have John Waters back with us again. (00:25):
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Hearts of Oak: John, thank you so much for coming on today and joining us. (00:29):
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John Waters: Thank you for having me on, Peter. It's a great pleasure. (00:33):
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Hearts of Oak: Great to be with you. And it was certainly about a year ago and I actually reading (00:36):
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Hearts of Oak: your sub stack, which I think prompted me to reach out. (00:41):
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Hearts of Oak: And your book, The Abolition of Reality, a first draft of the end of history. (00:45):
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Hearts of Oak: And there's the front cover of it. (00:52):
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Hearts of Oak: All the links are in the description. You can get it on Amazon, (00:56):
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Hearts of Oak: hardback, paperback and ebook on Kindle. (00:59):
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Hearts of Oak: And it's a fascinating read as if you follow John's Substack, (01:02):
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Hearts of Oak: you will know that the writing style is really easy to understand, (01:08):
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Hearts of Oak: easy to read with prose, with poetry, (01:13):
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Hearts of Oak: with what you'd expect from an Irish writer, basically. (01:16):
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Hearts of Oak: So really enjoyable, a lot in it. (01:19):
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Hearts of Oak: But maybe the first thing I want to ask you, John, is one of the first lines, (01:22):
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Hearts of Oak: before we get into a collection of your Substack articles from 2020, 2024, (01:30):
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Hearts of Oak: looking at that COVID time, and there are a lot of things I'd just like to pull (01:34):
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Hearts of Oak: out and to get your thoughts on, because I can't do the book justice. (01:39):
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Hearts of Oak: But actually, very beginning, before chapter one, there was a line in it. (01:44):
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Hearts of Oak: And each year, you give the chronology of that year with a breakdown of what's (01:48):
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Hearts of Oak: happening before you go into the chapters covering that year. (01:54):
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Hearts of Oak: But one of the lines before then is, 15th of August, 1971, US abolition of the (01:59):
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Hearts of Oak: monetary gold standard. (02:06):
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Hearts of Oak: And I find that really interesting. in a book that's about control, (02:07):
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Hearts of Oak: about the power of media, the power of propaganda, and what people did, (02:11):
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Hearts of Oak: the role of governments, the role of farmers, all of that. (02:18):
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Hearts of Oak: Actually, you go back decades and use this line about the gold standard. (02:21):
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Hearts of Oak: Maybe let us know why you put that line in, which maybe doesn't seem to connect to the topic. (02:27):
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John Waters: Well, you see, this is the thing, Peter. The topic is, what is the topic? (02:34):
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John Waters: Well, the topic, this word COVID, which immediately short-circuits you into (02:38):
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John Waters: some kind of medical saga. (02:43):
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John Waters: But I've been saying for some time that COVID was not about COVID, (02:45):
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John Waters: that COVID was really about everything else except COVID. (02:50):
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John Waters: It was really an attack on the human race. And for a particular reason in particular (02:53):
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John Waters: to do with, as I say, it wasn't about your health. (02:58):
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John Waters: It was about your wealth much more. And that's where the gold standard connection (03:02):
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John Waters: begins to make sense, because, you know, that connection, which was, you know, (03:07):
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John Waters: between human endeavor, human labor, human work, human creativity and gold. (03:13):
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John Waters: Had in it a kind of equilibrium, you know, that the scarcity of gold, (03:19):
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John Waters: the difficulty of mining gold and so on, (03:23):
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John Waters: somehow, you know, reflected more or less approximately the difficulty of making (03:27):
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John Waters: things, of creating things, of producing things. (03:33):
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John Waters: And so that was a necessary kind of ballasting, as it were, of the two functions (03:36):
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John Waters: of the money and the work, and the getting out of bed in the morning, (03:41):
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John Waters: you know, that kind of sense of that connection. (03:46):
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John Waters: And when that was abolished then you had a kind of the (03:49):
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John Waters: result was a kind of a free-floating money or quasi-money (03:52):
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John Waters: because it wasn't really money anymore because it didn't have any root that's (03:56):
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John Waters: the anchor of money that was the reason gold gold has no intrinsic value of (04:00):
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John Waters: its own as a substance it's a metal of course it has now if you find gold you're (04:07):
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John Waters: going to be rich but why is that? (04:12):
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John Waters: Well it's because of that connection fundamentally And, you know, (04:14):
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John Waters: but objectively speaking, you know, gold is just another form of rock, you know. (04:18):
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John Waters: But that was the core of the human economy. (04:25):
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John Waters: And as a result of that, of human existence and coexistence. (04:30):
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John Waters: And once that connection was severed, you know, we were into a kind of a situation (04:34):
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John Waters: where economics became more or less about gambling, about stock markets and (04:38):
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John Waters: bond markets. And people could make a lot of money without actually doing anything (04:42):
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John Waters: useful or even getting out of bed in the morning. (04:46):
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John Waters: You know, you didn't have to get out of bed anymore. You could just tippy tap (04:49):
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John Waters: on your laptop and make a couple of million and go back to sleep. (04:52):
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John Waters: And that really destroyed the world. (04:57):
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John Waters: And then out of that came this whole idea of fiat currencies and debt. (05:00):
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John Waters: A debt as a creator, as an instrument of creating wealth. (05:06):
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John Waters: You know, where the way that wealth was created, that somebody went into a bank (05:10):
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John Waters: and borrowed money, that became then an asset of the bank, a liability of the (05:14):
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John Waters: person who had borrowed it. (05:18):
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John Waters: And this was how the world began to operate. And of course, that created a ballooning (05:20):
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John Waters: of debt because, by definition, intrinsic to the whole model was the fact that (05:26):
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John Waters: there wasn't going to be enough money to pay back all the debt with the interest. (05:31):
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John Waters: And this just ballooned. And now we have our economies really weighed down with (05:35):
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John Waters: debt, like just massive ballooning debt that is unsustainable. (05:41):
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John Waters: And, you know, very often I hear people, and sometimes what appear to be very (05:45):
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John Waters: qualified people, saying, oh, no, it's okay, they can just keep printing money. (05:49):
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John Waters: But, of course, if they could do that, that money would have no value instantly. (05:53):
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John Waters: If the idea got around that you could do that and people started believing it, (05:57):
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John Waters: then they wouldn't believe in money anymore because it would be just your toilet (06:02):
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John Waters: roll in the bathroom would be more valuable. (06:05):
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John Waters: So that's kind of the connection. But where this really comes in to land in (06:09):
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John Waters: relation to the COVID project, that's, by the way, that phrase was created by the World Bank, (06:16):
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John Waters: as the descriptor of what was going on. The COVID project. (06:24):
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John Waters: They didn't say, you know, save the people. They didn't say, (06:29):
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John Waters: you know, deadly disease. It said the COVID project. So it was an economic project. (06:32):
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John Waters: And also it was a military project, which is under a different heading, but connected. (06:36):
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John Waters: So, you know, I think that on the 15th of August, the... (06:41):
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John Waters: 2019, BlackRock, the world's biggest asset management company. (06:46):
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John Waters: You know, you could call them other things too, but that's what they call themselves, right? (06:52):
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John Waters: And they sent out a letter to the Federal Exchange in the United States, to the World Bank, IMF. (06:57):
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John Waters: The G20, etc., interested parties, saying the world economy is about to collapse. (07:07):
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John Waters: We need to take it down very gently and put it in cotton wool and keep it safe (07:13):
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John Waters: for a little while while we prepare our exit strategy. (07:19):
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John Waters: Because their imperative was to ensure that none of their clients lost even a cent of their wealth. (07:23):
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John Waters: Whereas what happened to the world (07:29):
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John Waters: was, if anything, not even secondary importance. It was way down the list. (07:30):
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John Waters: And that's kind of been the colour, the tenor of the entire COVID project from (07:36):
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John Waters: then on and for the past five years. And, of course, it still goes on. (07:43):
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John Waters: It is not completed until the landing of those currencies, which I call the (07:46):
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John Waters: supernova of currencies, where they're basically going to implode. (07:52):
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John Waters: And, you know, then you will wake up one morning and all the money you have (07:56):
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John Waters: at the bank will actually be worth less than the toilet roll in your bathroom. (07:59):
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John Waters: That's the general idea as I see it. (08:03):
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John Waters: Now, it may not come out exactly like that, but that's in general where we're (08:05):
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John Waters: going. And of course, that's what everything else is now about. (08:09):
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John Waters: All of the introduction of tyranny, which is really a rehearsal for the real (08:12):
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John Waters: deal when people realise that they've been robbed of everything they ever had. (08:17):
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John Waters: They're not going to be very pleased. And that's when you'll have martial law. (08:21):
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John Waters: That's when you'll have then, it is suggested, the mass migration will come (08:27):
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John Waters: into its own as well. we'll begin to see why exactly they were porting all these (08:32):
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John Waters: military-aged men into our countries in Europe and in the West generally. (08:37):
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Hearts of Oak: Oh yeah. Also really interesting, I think (08:41):
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Hearts of Oak: The journalists especially have tried to rewrite the history, and they have tried. (08:46):
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Hearts of Oak: We see now stories on the impact, the destruction of COVID, especially on the health side. (08:52):
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Hearts of Oak: And they've tried to rewrite themselves saying, no, I was really concerned. (08:59):
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Hearts of Oak: I spoke about this earlier on. (09:04):
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Hearts of Oak: But what you've put together is really fascinating because your foresight is (09:06):
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Hearts of Oak: the same as your hindsight. (09:12):
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Hearts of Oak: That's extremely rare. (09:13):
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John Waters: Yes. Well, I think it's an instinct, Peter, which I thought everybody had. (09:17):
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John Waters: This was the shocking thing. (09:23):
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John Waters: When I heard back in April 2020, and people misremember, this has been rewritten (09:26):
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John Waters: as well, this particular day. You remember the thing about what they told us, (09:32):
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John Waters: well, you can't go any more than two kilometers from your own home. (09:36):
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John Waters: That actually wasn't what it was. (09:39):
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John Waters: The actual regulation, if you can call it that, whatever it was, (09:41):
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John Waters: law, probably not, but makey-uppy stuff. (09:45):
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John Waters: What it said was that you cannot leave your home at all except with a good, (09:51):
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John Waters: a reasonable excuse that, (09:57):
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John Waters: And then you can only go two kilometers, right? That's a rather different matter. (09:59):
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John Waters: These guys are telling, who have no authority whatsoever to tell you such a (10:04):
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John Waters: thing, are telling you that you can't leave your house. (10:07):
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John Waters: They're putting you under house arrest, even though you haven't done anything, (10:10):
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John Waters: even though they haven't charged you with anything. And I said, you can't do that. (10:13):
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John Waters: It's obvious you can't do that. And I met up with my friend at the time, (10:17):
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John Waters: Gemma Doherty, who agreed with me. (10:21):
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John Waters: And we said, well, let's put in a case about this. Now, to be honest with you, (10:24):
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John Waters: Peter, I kind of wasn't, I did think it was absolutely the right thing to do. (10:29):
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John Waters: But boy, was I not looking forward to facing those awful judges on an issue (10:34):
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John Waters: because I knew they'd all been bought off by then, you know, (10:38):
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John Waters: I got that distinct impression. (10:40):
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John Waters: And so, but I said, we have to do this because to put down a marker, (10:43):
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John Waters: you know, and to, as it were, dramatize what happens so that people will actually (10:47):
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John Waters: absorb it and understand that this is not normal. (10:52):
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John Waters: And that, in other words, we anticipated that the treatment of our case would (10:56):
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John Waters: not be normal either and that we would be given the runaround. (11:01):
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John Waters: And that we were for two and a half years. A case that if one judge sitting alone could, (11:04):
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John Waters: reviewing our submissions initially and just flicking through them in about (11:10):
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John Waters: like three or four minutes, could either have said aye or nay, (11:14):
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John Waters: and that would be the end of it. (11:18):
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John Waters: You know, he'd have said, look, your papers aren't up, your case doesn't stand (11:20):
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John Waters: up, or whatever, and we couldn't, go home and have another go, (11:23):
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John Waters: whatever. But he didn't do that, and he kicked it into the stand. (11:27):
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John Waters: And as a result of that, it took two and a half years, something like 30 hours (11:32):
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John Waters: of time, all three layers of court. (11:37):
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John Waters: That's the High Court, Court of Appeal and Supreme Court, no less than 13 judges, (11:42):
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John Waters: and probably several Amazonian forests. (11:48):
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John Waters: And at the end the Supreme Court seven judges all seven no six out of seven (11:55):
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John Waters: one actually found in our favour, (12:00):
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John Waters: said you can't have any judicial review of this because (12:03):
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John Waters: we say so right and actually the (12:06):
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John Waters: guy who dissented was probably the best judge in the (12:10):
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John Waters: Irish system for the previous hundred years he had written all (12:12):
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John Waters: the textbooks so he probably you know in (12:15):
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John Waters: a certain sense I felt that was a victory morally you (12:18):
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John Waters: know Ireland used to really be into the moral victories one time when (12:21):
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John Waters: we were playing football you know what I mean you lost only 3-0 when it (12:24):
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John Waters: could have been 4 you know that was a moral victory well I regarded that as (12:27):
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John Waters: a really a moral victory that the Gerard Hogan was explained that the best judge (12:30):
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John Waters: in the system for the previous whatever number of years had actually found in (12:34):
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John Waters: a favour but the actual result was very much against us so yeah but to go back (12:37):
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John Waters: to your initial to your actual point, (12:43):
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John Waters: I thought everybody. (12:45):
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Hearts of Oak: Because I think chapter four, as I was looking for it, called A New Kind of Stupid. (12:47):
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Hearts of Oak: And in that you talk about getting abuse from cyclists, shouting things at you. (12:52):
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Hearts of Oak: And you're obviously, and you (12:58):
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Hearts of Oak: make the comment, you're a more recognisable face and person than Gemma. (13:00):
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Hearts of Oak: So you seem to have suffered that. (13:05):
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Hearts of Oak: But also by people coming to you privately and saying, oh, thank you for what (13:08):
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Hearts of Oak: you're doing. But it's a bit weird whenever you go out and are getting abuse (13:13):
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Hearts of Oak: from strangers simply for fighting for their rights. (13:17):
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John Waters: Well, exactly. But it was completely, obviously, it was completely Pavlovian. (13:21):
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John Waters: In other words, just programmed, you know, and you could actually detect it (13:26):
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John Waters: in the ebbs and flows of events, you know, that if there was a sudden discussion (13:29):
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John Waters: about some aspect or some lurching in some new variant or whatever, (13:34):
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John Waters: they would immediately become more and more exercised. You know, (13:39):
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John Waters: it was quite interesting. (13:42):
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John Waters: Like we had a, where we live, we had the first week in the lockdown, (13:43):
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John Waters: they actually put a cycle lane right opposite, or they closed half the road (13:47):
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John Waters: down and put a new cycle lane right there. (13:51):
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John Waters: Like this is the first priority, like when, at the beginning of the lockdown. (13:54):
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John Waters: And these guys are whizzing up at like, I don't know, like it seemed very fast. (13:57):
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John Waters: I don't know how fast cyclists can go, but these guys were going pretty fast. (14:01):
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John Waters: And it was like a racetrack. (14:04):
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John Waters: But when they would see me, they would speed up and then they would fly with (14:07):
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John Waters: their payload of explosives in my direction. (14:11):
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John Waters: And, you know, I kind of, after a while, didn't really take much notice of it. (14:14):
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John Waters: But, you know, it was Pavlovian. (14:18):
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John Waters: And the whole thing was so orchestrated and so, you know, nasty and deliberately so. (14:21):
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John Waters: Like it was engineered to be nasty because that was the whole way. (14:28):
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John Waters: You know, in a certain sense, you know, we went to court and it was about law in one sense. (14:32):
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John Waters: But, you know, really, most of this stuff wasn't even law. It was pretend law. (14:36):
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John Waters: And there's a chapter at the end of the book where I call it a satanic playground, (14:40):
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John Waters: where I actually talk about the weaponization of the play instinct of human beings. (14:46):
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John Waters: And the way I explain that is that you think about it like there's something, (14:50):
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John Waters: like it's hard, plays and games, these things are hardwired into human beings (14:55):
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John Waters: and into animals, actually, for that matter. (15:01):
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John Waters: It goes right back. It's about the most basic sort of instinct, (15:03):
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John Waters: it seems, that we have. and children from a very early age start to play and they love games and so on. (15:06):
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John Waters: You know, but you think about it, like when you were kids, like you get a new (15:13):
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John Waters: game for Christmas and, you know, it's arcane and obscure. (15:18):
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John Waters: You don't know what you need. You have to read this little booklet and figure (15:23):
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John Waters: out what the parts are for and all that. (15:25):
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John Waters: And everybody sits around the first night and they do a kind of a dress rehearsal (15:27):
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John Waters: and everybody does an argument about the rules. (15:31):
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John Waters: But the thing about the rules is that they don't belong in the other world, in the outside world. (15:34):
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John Waters: They're about the game and purely about the game. So you have to obey those rules. (15:39):
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John Waters: And you can't bring the logic of the outside world in and say, (15:43):
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John Waters: well, this contradicts these rules. They're not reasonable. (15:47):
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John Waters: And that's what they did. They managed to weaponize that kind of, (15:50):
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John Waters: what you might call, that particular reflex in humans, whereby they would accept (15:53):
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John Waters: something in a game that didn't make any sense. (16:00):
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John Waters: So, and the way when I'm talking about this now, I talk about, (16:03):
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John Waters: well, take, for example, a game in which you have to enter into a room, (16:06):
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John Waters: you know, wearing a face covering. Yes, but when you're crossing the room, (16:09):
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John Waters: you have to continue wearing the face covering. (16:13):
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John Waters: But if you sit down, then you can take the face covering off. (16:16):
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John Waters: And if you want to go to the bathroom, then you have to put it back on again and walk to the door. (16:19):
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John Waters: And then you come out. But if you want to go to the bar, okay, (16:25):
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John Waters: now you can take it off then. (16:28):
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John Waters: But when you're drinking, you take it off and then you put it back on again. (16:30):
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John Waters: So you kind of have to almost keep putting it up and down. So all of these are (16:37):
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John Waters: the rules of this game, which obviously sounds completely crazy and daft. (16:40):
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John Waters: If you think of it as a game, you say, what would be the point of that? (16:45):
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John Waters: Well, now we know what would be the point of it. And we actually did it, (16:48):
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John Waters: or most people did it for them at the, you know, just the click of their fingers. (16:52):
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John Waters: And that's kind of, so there's many, many sinister aspects of this. (16:56):
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John Waters: If you think about, again, that game thing, the dancing nurses, (17:00):
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John Waters: which was, you know, that these hospitals were overrun, they told us. (17:05):
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John Waters: We knew they weren't because people were going in with cameras and they couldn't find anybody. (17:09):
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John Waters: But then suddenly these videos started erupting of dancing nurses. (17:13):
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John Waters: And not alone dancing, but carrying like blow up coffins, you know, (17:19):
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John Waters: and dancing with the coffins on their shoulders. (17:23):
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John Waters: And you think this is a burlesque. This is like and and and. (17:26):
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John Waters: So this was a dark, dark thing. And yet all this happened without people realising how dark it was. (17:31):
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John Waters: It was as if, as I say, they were in the game and everything that was within (17:38):
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John Waters: the game had to be observed. (17:42):
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John Waters: And there was no room for dissent. And where there was dissent, (17:44):
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John Waters: then the dissenters were attacked. (17:48):
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John Waters: In the game, there's a guy called Kruzenga who wrote a book about the games (17:50):
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John Waters: back in the 1930s. It's a very interesting book. (17:56):
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John Waters: Homo Ludens is the name of it and he talks about the two figures in the game (17:59):
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John Waters: who are anathema in a certain sense of the game there's the cheat, (18:04):
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John Waters: and then there's the spoilsport and he actually makes a (18:08):
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John Waters: very interesting point that the spoilsport is much worse than the cheat because (18:11):
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John Waters: the cheat still wants to play the game he wants to win the game at all costs (18:16):
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John Waters: but the spoilsport wants to spoil the game and that's exactly how we were treated (18:20):
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John Waters: when we started to try and question anything That's what the lycra lods were saying. (18:25):
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John Waters: They said, you're a spoilsport. That's what they were really telling me. You're a spoilsport. (18:29):
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John Waters: You're interfering with our game. This is a game. You don't understand. Are you stupid? (18:34):
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John Waters: You know, that was the vibe because there was no sense in which people would say to you. (18:38):
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John Waters: Only one person, really, that I met who kind of obviously disagreed with me, (18:43):
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John Waters: came up to me in the street and tried to kind of say to me, well, (18:47):
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John Waters: what are you trying to do? What is your point? (18:50):
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John Waters: You know, what is your point? And I started to explain to him that it's about (18:53):
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John Waters: freedom. and he didn't understand what I meant. (18:56):
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John Waters: You know, he didn't, he said, hmm, I don't know. And he walked away, (18:59):
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John Waters: you know, scratching his head. (19:03):
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John Waters: So it was a bizarre kind of logic which was accepted uncritically by virtually everyone. (19:04):
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Hearts of Oak: And one of the rules of the game was at six o'clock, we sat round our screens (19:11):
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Hearts of Oak: to see what latest information would be given those press conferences. (19:18):
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Hearts of Oak: And in chapter one, The COVID panic-demic and you scam-demic in the first line. (19:23):
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Hearts of Oak: So it's like you don't know what's happening. But you talk about the process (19:30):
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Hearts of Oak: of mass entrapment and entrapment, I guess, (19:34):
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Hearts of Oak: by the media that left many people terrified and waiting to hear what the latest information was. (19:39):
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Hearts of Oak: And obviously at the beginning you realised the power of the media to actually tell us what to think, (19:47):
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Hearts of Oak: why to think it, how to think, and to give us the latest kind of fear level (19:55):
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Hearts of Oak: so we knew how to actually carry out our lives that day until the next press conference. (19:59):
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John Waters: Yeah, well, the media was really the most disgraceful thing. (20:05):
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John Waters: In a certain sense, you would have to say the media were the worst of all, (20:09):
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John Waters: in this particular sense, that if they didn't behave as they did, (20:12):
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John Waters: none of this would have been possible in the first place. (20:16):
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John Waters: It couldn't have lasted for any more than a week if the media hadn't been completely behind it. (20:18):
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John Waters: And if the media had done the job of investigating or just putting up alternative (20:23):
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John Waters: viewpoints and analysing things properly, then the politicians would have had (20:27):
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John Waters: to fold their tents and go away. (20:31):
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John Waters: But obviously what happened was that the media were bought off. (20:33):
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John Waters: And instead they were invited to flip their model from attempting to tell the (20:37):
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John Waters: truth on a daily basis to basically telling lies all the time. (20:42):
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John Waters: And they agreed to that deal. (20:44):
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John Waters: And then they began to kind of see this as a kind of a virtue of theirs, (20:46):
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John Waters: you know, that they were saving lives. (20:50):
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John Waters: But, you know, then when there was no lives to be saved in 2020, (20:52):
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John Waters: there were no excess deaths contrary to their expectations. (20:56):
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John Waters: But in 2021, the excess deaths started in earnest. And suddenly they lost all (20:59):
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John Waters: their interest in saving lives and they started to make up all kinds of nonsense (21:03):
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John Waters: about why people were now dying at levels that were unprecedented, (21:07):
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John Waters: orders of magnitude beyond what would have been a crisis in a previous era. (21:13):
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John Waters: And suddenly, you know, we were now being told like that, you know, (21:19):
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John Waters: oh, gardening is bad for your health. (21:23):
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John Waters: You know, it could give you strokes and heart attacks, you know, (21:25):
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John Waters: and particularly if you let the dirt get under your fingernails. (21:27):
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John Waters: It's really bad apparently that's the real cause of death this sort of nonsense (21:30):
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John Waters: and they put this out with straight faces and absolutely scurrilous but this (21:35):
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John Waters: is the thing about media and that whole kind of. (21:41):
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John Waters: Period, was that, you know, people bought into their, you know, (21:45):
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John Waters: they bought into everything that they were told. (21:51):
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John Waters: And, you know, it's absolutely shameful what's happened. (21:54):
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John Waters: You know, the indoctrination of the public, the terrorization of the public. (21:58):
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John Waters: There's a very interesting book which came out. I didn't, there was a, (22:03):
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John Waters: I had written a chapter to this effect in, or an article in my sub-stack, (22:06):
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John Waters: which I didn't make it into the book because I wasn't happy with it. (22:11):
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John Waters: But the book is very interesting. (22:14):
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John Waters: It's called by Dr. Michael Neal. It's called The Indoctrinated Brain. (22:16):
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John Waters: And he talks about that session, or seance, that you might call it at the 6 (22:20):
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John Waters: o'clock news or the 9 o'clock news, where he talks about it in terms of that the human brain. (22:24):
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John Waters: When it's tired, has huge difficulty in taking in new information. (22:31):
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John Waters: It's so late in the evening. It's not a good time to be taking in new information. (22:37):
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John Waters: And what he says is that the effects of that is that they were essentially imposing (22:41):
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John Waters: early onset Alzheimer's on whole populations because they were forcing them (22:47):
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John Waters: to take in this information. (22:54):
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John Waters: And the consequence of that, he says, is that you start to erase parts of your (22:55):
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John Waters: memory in order to accommodate this new information. And he says a similar thing (23:00):
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John Waters: happened as a result of the vaccines with the brain. (23:05):
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John Waters: So, you know, what was going on wasn't, you know, it was protocoled, (23:08):
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John Waters: you know, it was scripted. (23:16):
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John Waters: It didn't come from the genius of journalists, let's put it that way, (23:18):
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John Waters: that they were basically following orders, and they didn't necessarily know (23:22):
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John Waters: what they were doing all the time or why they were doing it. (23:27):
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John Waters: But somebody sure knew, and somebody had written those protocols and written (23:29):
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John Waters: those scripts in order to achieve a certain outcome, and that outcome is ongoing. (23:34):
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John Waters: I mean, you can see now, I mean, there's all these kind of involutions in relation (23:38):
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John Waters: to media and the way they worked. (23:42):
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John Waters: One of the striking things about it was that you could notice that there had (23:44):
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John Waters: been a radical change in the way that information was being received by the public. (23:50):
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John Waters: And that that had something to do with the way that the presentation of information was being altered. (23:55):
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John Waters: And I'll give you an example. It's just like, you know, that they, (24:00):
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John Waters: I think, I think that I probably didn't, hadn't realized really fully how we (24:03):
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John Waters: take in information from media. (24:10):
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John Waters: Because we kind of think, well, no, I just saw it on the news or I saw it in the newspaper. (24:12):
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John Waters: But in fact, when you look back on it, you realize that actually, (24:16):
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John Waters: of course, a critical aspect of this is repetition, reinforcement of a certain (24:19):
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John Waters: message or a certain story. (24:25):
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John Waters: You know, like if you only see an item on the 6 o'clock news and it's not on (24:26):
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John Waters: the 9 o'clock news, you tend to forget it. (24:30):
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John Waters: Well, it mustn't be true or whatever. It's not important. (24:32):
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John Waters: But they could sort of prioritise certain stories in people's consciousness (24:35):
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John Waters: by treating them in a certain way and not prioritise them in other stories by (24:39):
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John Waters: just simply reporting them in a way that would give them deniability in the (24:45):
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John Waters: future and yet not in a way that people would sort of clearly remember. (24:49):
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John Waters: Other than that, well, I thought I saw something about that. (24:54):
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John Waters: Yeah, that's vaguely, yeah, yeah, I think I do. Yeah, I know what you mean. (24:57):
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John Waters: But, you know, so it's a lot of kind of tricks that journalists didn't make (25:01):
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John Waters: up because they'd never done it before, but they were operating these protocols (25:05):
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John Waters: in ways that had fiendish outcomes, (25:09):
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John Waters: regardless of whether they knew what they were doing or not. (25:14):
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John Waters: And in one of the early chapters. (25:17):
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Hearts of Oak: You talk about the ideological stripe of COVID, where you give some of the stats (25:18):
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Hearts of Oak: of the 10 worst states for fatalities. (25:27):
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Hearts of Oak: Democratic states in the US accounted for in the region of 13 times the number (25:30):
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Hearts of Oak: of deaths of Republican-led states. (25:34):
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Hearts of Oak: And I was thinking, well, actually, you could have titled that chapter maybe (25:37):
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Hearts of Oak: Death by Stupidity, but you do stupid in your chapter four. (25:41):
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Hearts of Oak: But it was strange to see that, and yet in the UK, we had a supposedly conservative (25:44):
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Hearts of Oak: government, supposedly, (25:53):
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Hearts of Oak: but they went full down control and taking away all our freedoms. (25:54):
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Hearts of Oak: But that kind of divide between right and left or conservative and on the left, (26:01):
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Hearts of Oak: we saw that all across the world, really. We did, yeah. (26:09):
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John Waters: We did. That was the strangest thing about it at the very beginning. (26:14):
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John Waters: Because, you know, I remember the emergence of various previous pandemics or (26:17):
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John Waters: epidemics, whatever you call them, which tended to come and go. (26:23):
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John Waters: And pretty quickly, you know, like the first SARS thing went in 2009. (26:28):
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John Waters: That disappeared in a matter of like a week or so. (26:32):
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John Waters: And for a moment I thought that's what was going to happen here, (26:37):
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John Waters: but it didn't and I kind of started to (26:41):
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John Waters: wonder about this because I remember being in the newsroom and going to news (26:44):
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John Waters: conferences when I was at the Irish Times for example or other media and there (26:47):
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John Waters: was always going to be I mean there'd be a lot of I suppose a good number of (26:53):
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John Waters: young journalists who mightn't be all that kind of but there'd be a kind of lot of, (26:57):
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John Waters: hard-bitten old Charles at the back like who had seen it all and who weren't (27:02):
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John Waters: going to listen to any nonsense. (27:06):
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John Waters: But they seem to have lost their tongues in this whole episode or to have been (27:07):
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John Waters: excluded. I don't know exactly how because there was no common sense emanating from the media at all. (27:12):
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John Waters: It was almost as if there had been some kind of mandating issued against common (27:18):
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John Waters: sense that people were advised, whatever you do, don't say anything commonsensical. (27:23):
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John Waters: Just nod your head at every, no matter how ridiculous what you hear is, (27:28):
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John Waters: just nod your head. That was kind of like, and then we'll put it in the paper tomorrow. (27:32):
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John Waters: And that's what happened. And that's what still happens. (27:35):
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John Waters: And so journalism is over now. I mean, I was a journalist for 35 years. (27:39):
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John Waters: I remember as a child, the word journalist used to excite me. (27:45):
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John Waters: The word, you know, to hear a journalist speak, or to read, you know, (27:48):
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John Waters: it was like it's almost like a godhead. You know, it was a really exalted position. (27:52):
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John Waters: And now I'm ashamed of the word. Like I kind of, when people could introduce (27:58):
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John Waters: me as a journalist, I say, sorry, do you mind? (28:02):
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John Waters: And I've said to my wife that if in my obituaries I'm described as a journalist, (28:06):
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John Waters: she's to immediately ask for a correction and clarification the next day. (28:11):
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Hearts of Oak: There was another, early on, one of the chapters was the break for evil. (28:16):
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Hearts of Oak: And this is intriguing, your thinking on this. (28:22):
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Hearts of Oak: A few lines from the chapter are, I call it the break for evil. (28:27):
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Hearts of Oak: By evil, I mean that as though in a single instant, perhaps precisely traceable (28:30):
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Hearts of Oak: in retrospect, the authorities of the Western world all at once began to shift (28:35):
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Hearts of Oak: from the right foot of good authority to the sinister hooves of wickedness, violence and coercion. (28:39):
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Hearts of Oak: I mean, breaking the sense of running for the border as though they had seen (28:45):
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Hearts of Oak: their opportunity and made a run for it. (28:48):
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Hearts of Oak: It was as if they were kind of held back until this moment and then just suddenly (28:51):
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Hearts of Oak: were desperate to do other countries out in terms of restricting freedoms. (28:57):
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Hearts of Oak: And there was a race to see who could take away more of our freedoms than another country. (29:03):
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John Waters: Yeah, and the lockstep nature of that, Peter, was really astonishing because (29:08):
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John Waters: we'd never witnessed that before. You know what I mean? (29:13):
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John Waters: And that told us that there was some supranational authority at play here because (29:19):
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John Waters: we knew that our own incompetent governments couldn't get it together to put (29:24):
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John Waters: those chalk men that you had on the pats in the park where he's in the park. (29:29):
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John Waters: And so that would have taken them about two and a half years to get that sorted (29:33):
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John Waters: out, you know, and the yellow poster is another year, you know, like so. (29:37):
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John Waters: But these things happened overnight and it was quite extraordinary, you know. (29:40):
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John Waters: And, you know, there's an image I use in that as well, in that chapter, I think, (29:44):
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John Waters: about the crows, that the whole world, it was like, you know, (29:47):
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John Waters: if you're watching in a field where the crows land in the evening, (29:51):
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John Waters: you know, and they all gather up there and then they fall silent, you know. (29:55):
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John Waters: And then, without any audible signal, they just whoosh, they take off. And it was like that. (30:01):
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John Waters: And of course, appropriately, a group of crows that is called a murder, a murder of crows. (30:09):
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John Waters: Well, this was a murder of humanity, because that's what it was about fundamentally. (30:16):
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John Waters: Because, you know, when people said about the excess deaths, (30:21):
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John Waters: and these would be the measure. (30:26):
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John Waters: Well, in 2020, there was no excess deaths. But that doesn't mean that there (30:27):
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John Waters: wasn't a spike of deaths. (30:32):
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John Waters: There was a spike of deaths from late March to early May, peaking in the middle of April. (30:33):
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John Waters: And that was all in the nursing homes, where as a result of stress, (30:39):
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John Waters: misuse of sedatives and ventilators, many people died who wouldn't have died (30:44):
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John Waters: maybe for weeks or months later, elderly people. (30:51):
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John Waters: And that seems to have been a calculation within the model that they were working (30:54):
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John Waters: in order to push the numbers up and keep the scare factor going. (30:59):
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Hearts of Oak: There was another show, the victory of bondage, and I just want to touch on (31:04):
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Hearts of Oak: all different areas in it. (31:08):
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Hearts of Oak: And that was the end of 2020. (31:09):
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Hearts of Oak: And there's a line, it's a quote in it from someone else. (31:13):
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Hearts of Oak: The time of COVID has revealed to us something we would not have believed about (31:17):
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Hearts of Oak: our fellow human beings, that many of them are happier in slavery. than in freedom. (31:21):
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Hearts of Oak: And there seemed to be a safety or a security in that kind of slave mentality (31:25):
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Hearts of Oak: of having all our freedoms taken and the more freedoms that were taken, (31:31):
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Hearts of Oak: the better off we would be. (31:36):
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Hearts of Oak: And then the whole thing of people, you know, the curtains twitching of neighbours, (31:39):
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Hearts of Oak: if they dare have out for a cup of tea then to report on them. (31:44):
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Hearts of Oak: And that, yeah, that seemingly happiness or security in all our freedoms being gone. (31:48):
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John Waters: Yeah, I think that that was a very noticeable thing. (31:57):
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John Waters: And, you know, since I don't know if I'd included this point in the book, (32:00):
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John Waters: I don't think I did, actually. (32:03):
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John Waters: But it has struck me recently that actually maybe (32:05):
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John Waters: there is something about the modern way of living that creates such stress and (32:08):
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John Waters: anxiety for people that they welcome some kind of break like that where they (32:13):
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John Waters: can become infantilized and throw all of their power away and sort of give themselves (32:18):
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John Waters: over to some tyranny. so that they can be told what to do. (32:24):
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John Waters: And it's a little bit like being back in school again and just taking instructions from the teacher. (32:27):
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John Waters: And that, you know, the fear of responsibility, the fear of getting things wrong, (32:32):
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John Waters: the tiredness you feel of pushing, pushing, pushing with your life and always (32:37):
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John Waters: just about at best, you know, hanging on, hanging in. (32:41):
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John Waters: I think there's certainly something in that, that there's something in the modern (32:46):
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John Waters: mentality, in the modern lifestyle that makes us very susceptible to interventions (32:50):
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John Waters: like that would sort of say, you know, well, you know, (32:55):
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John Waters: we, you know, and it is like, you know, in a certain sense, bondage in multiple senses because, (32:58):
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John Waters: you know, obviously bondage in the sense of slavery, but also bondage in the (33:04):
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John Waters: BDSM sense where there's a kind of, almost that sort of master sub-relationship (33:08):
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John Waters: between the people and between the politicians and the people. (33:14):
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John Waters: You know, the politicians crack the whip, like, and, you know, (33:19):
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John Waters: the people just kind of shiver and, you know, get on with it, you know. (33:22):
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John Waters: And I think there's a lot of dark forces there, you know. (33:28):
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John Waters: And, of course, that brings us then to the darkest forces, which is that the (33:31):
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John Waters: idea that all of this is, at some level, what we call satanic, (33:34):
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John Waters: whatever that might mean to people. (33:38):
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John Waters: For what it means to me is that it's basically that there is a tendency of more (33:39):
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John Waters: and more people in power, particularly. (33:47):
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John Waters: Place their trust in dark forces rather than in forces for good. (33:50):
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John Waters: Because it's easier like that. You can actually take a shortcut to wealth, (33:55):
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John Waters: to power, and you don't have to obey any rules, really. (34:01):
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John Waters: The rules are for your subjects. And I think that that's something that is part (34:04):
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John Waters: of this sort of spiritual war, very intrinsically central to this spiritual (34:09):
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John Waters: war that we've been fighting, because ultimately that's what it is. (34:13):
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Hearts of Oak: No, and there were many things I took from the book that I had no idea about. (34:17):
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Hearts of Oak: When I've been through it, my thought at the end was, I need to make sure I (34:23):
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Hearts of Oak: read all of John Waters' sub-stack because sometimes you read here and there, (34:28):
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Hearts of Oak: but you realise there's so much packed into it. (34:31):
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Hearts of Oak: So that's kind of my light to the viewers, read more of what John puts out. (34:34):
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Hearts of Oak: But you said here, in a related point, (34:39):
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Hearts of Oak: I want to repeat it the preamble of the 1937 constitution of Ireland which begins (34:43):
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Hearts of Oak: the name of the most holy trinity from whom is all authority and to whom as (34:49):
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Hearts of Oak: our final end all actions both of men and states must be referred we the people (34:53):
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Hearts of Oak: of error humbly acknowledging our obligations to our divine Lord Jesus Christ (34:58):
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Hearts of Oak: and then you talk about when God is abolished what goes in he is replaced by (35:03):
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Hearts of Oak: all he is not replaced by all men but by a few men and putting their will on the rest. (35:08):
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Hearts of Oak: How does this fit into kind of that removal, (35:15):
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Hearts of Oak: not just Ireland, but moksha of the Western world, (35:18):
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Hearts of Oak: that removal of acknowledging the divine, of acknowledging who God is to actually (35:22):
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Hearts of Oak: thinking we are God ourselves and then being controlled by a smaller and smaller (35:29):
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Hearts of Oak: group at the top, really? (35:35):
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John Waters: Yeah, well, there's a point, I mean, and what I'm going to say now isn't exactly, (35:37):
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John Waters: isn't in any sense kind of you know an attempt to to, (35:41):
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John Waters: downplay the importance of any particular religion or religion as a thing. (35:46):
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John Waters: But, you know, much more in this context, (35:50):
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John Waters: in a certain sense, much more important than the question of God is the question (35:56):
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John Waters: of emphasizing to each and every human being, you are not God. (36:01):
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John Waters: You are not God. So the real danger here is not forgetting about God in itself, (36:06):
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John Waters: it's what happens next, which is that you then replace God with yourself. (36:14):
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John Waters: You place yourself on God's throne in your own life in the normal things. (36:19):
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John Waters: And that is a syndrome which within Alcoholics Anonymous is recognized and one (36:25):
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John Waters: of the primary causes where you take on the burden of everything in your life. (36:29):
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John Waters: You have nobody to refer it to any longer because you've abandoned God. (36:34):
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John Waters: You've kicked God off the throne. (36:39):
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John Waters: But now you find yourself with all the responsibility of God and none of the power. (36:41):
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John Waters: But then in the public arena, when people start to believe, then they begin (36:47):
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John Waters: to believe that they're God. (36:52):
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John Waters: And they begin to create structures which make them feel more and more godlike. (36:55):
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John Waters: And of course, that's a very, very dangerous thing. You know, (36:59):
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John Waters: in the Constitution of Ireland, I've often said it to people, (37:02):
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John Waters: that preamble, those first over in the name of the most holy trinity, (37:06):
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John Waters: the purpose of those is to take the rights of the people and hold them up towards heaven, as it were, (37:09):
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John Waters: maybe not as it were, as it is. Okay. (37:16):
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John Waters: And in doing so, fundamentally, apart from all the other meanings of that, (37:19):
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John Waters: you are actually holding those rights out of the reach of tyrants. (37:25):
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John Waters: And when you actually look at what's happened in the law courts in the context (37:30):
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John Waters: of the way that judgments over the recent decades have gone in respect of things (37:35):
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John Waters: like natural law principles, (37:44):
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John Waters: the language of the constitutions, (37:46):
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John Waters: the fundamental absolutist language that's inalienable. (37:48):
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John Waters: Imprescriptible, antecedent, anterior. (37:54):
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John Waters: You know, all those words which (37:57):
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John Waters: were like almost like as close to 100% absolute as you could imagine. (38:00):
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John Waters: Maybe having some minor possibility for flexibility in particular extreme cases, (38:05):
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John Waters: but always cases which were to do with particular situations. (38:10):
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John Waters: Never to say all the people will lose their rights now for the foreseeable future. (38:15):
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John Waters: That was inconceivable by the logic of those constitutions and that language. (38:22):
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John Waters: And the judges reinterpreted this language and issued judgments that were watering (38:27):
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John Waters: this down all the time and saying, oh, no, well, the words are just, (38:31):
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John Waters: they're there, they're interesting, but, you know, they're not really intended (38:35):
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John Waters: to be this or that or the other. (38:38):
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John Waters: So what you realize with listening to these judgments over the last (38:39):
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John Waters: few decades is that these judges were basically saying (38:42):
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John Waters: anything that came into their heads and putting it into their judgments without (38:45):
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John Waters: taking any responsibility either for the consequences or for the intentions (38:50):
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John Waters: of the frameworks of the Constitution and all the discussions that had gone (38:55):
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John Waters: into the formation and the formulation of those paragraphs, those articles in that Constitution. (38:59):
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John Waters: So that's where we are. And we've seen this in virtually every country, (39:05):
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John Waters: I would say, in the West, where, you know, they now tell us that, (39:09):
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John Waters: you know, there is no absolute right to life. (39:14):
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John Waters: They tell us that the unborn child is not a human being. (39:16):
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John Waters: They tell us all this stuff, which has no basis in anything. (39:20):
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John Waters: In anthropology or in metaphysics or in philosophy or anything, (39:24):
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John Waters: there's no logic to it other than made-up stuff. (39:28):
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John Waters: And that now is believed by people who want the easy life. (39:31):
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John Waters: And, you know, and that is satanic. That is the definition, that if you go down (39:36):
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John Waters: the road of finding an easy way to go through existence, then you're basically (39:41):
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John Waters: playing it by the devil's rules. (39:46):
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Hearts of Oak: What what was your thinking pulling these substack (39:50):
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Hearts of Oak: articles together um is it um (39:53):
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Hearts of Oak: i mean you show the power of groupthink throughout (39:56):
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Hearts of Oak: and there are three chapters of groupthink so you're showing what has happened (40:00):
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Hearts of Oak: and doing a public record of that but also it's a warning for the future and (40:04):
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Hearts of Oak: if this was so successful um up to now imagine what can happen in the future (40:09):
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Hearts of Oak: now people know i mean what What were, (40:15):
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Hearts of Oak: because there's a lot here, you could have just left on your sub-stop, (40:18):
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Hearts of Oak: but you want to publish as a book. (40:22):
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Hearts of Oak: Kind of, how exactly that, that should be my first question, John. I don't know. (40:23):
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Hearts of Oak: To finish off, how did it come together and why? (40:28):
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John Waters: Okay, well, actually, it was my publisher, Joseph Dindinger in Texas, (40:30):
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John Waters: who was reading my articles and said, we have to put this in a book. (40:34):
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John Waters: And I said, well, yeah, be my guest. (40:39):
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John Waters: I want that because I don't believe in the internet. I've never have believed (40:43):
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John Waters: this idea that if it's on the internet, it's there forever. (40:47):
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John Waters: It's only on there as long as the guys in charge want it to be there. (40:49):
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John Waters: And you can wake up next morning, tomorrow morning, and everything is gone if they want that. (40:53):
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John Waters: But also because I love books. I don't mean that in any kind of sentimental (40:58):
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John Waters: way. I've grown up with books. (41:02):
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John Waters: And I just think that when you have a book, you know, it's an extraordinary (41:04):
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John Waters: resource to have that and know there's words in it. (41:10):
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John Waters: And so I had this idea that, (41:14):
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John Waters: First of all, re-reading 1984, Orwell's book, and I came across that section (41:18):
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John Waters: where Winston Smith has got his beautiful new notebook and he wants to start (41:24):
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John Waters: a diary, and he's hiding in the alcove away from, he thinks, (41:28):
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John Waters: from the telescreen where you can't see him, and he's starting to write. (41:32):
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John Waters: And then he stops and asks himself, well, who is this for? (41:35):
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John Waters: And he said, for the future, for the unborn, he says. (41:37):
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John Waters: And I thought, yeah, that's what it is. And I had this idea that, (41:43):
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John Waters: you know, If I could get people to buy a book and read it, obviously, (41:47):
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John Waters: and then maybe buy two and keep one, but do one like this and wrap it in cellophane (41:51):
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John Waters: and wrap it in brown paper, (41:57):
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John Waters: maybe tinfoil, and then put it in a cardboard box and put that in a plastic (41:59):
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John Waters: bag and then hide it in the rafters of your house so that in 70 or 90 or 120 years, (42:02):
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John Waters: somebody will be up there doing (42:09):
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John Waters: some work with the slave and they will find it and they will read it. (42:11):
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John Waters: Because the great fear I have had from the beginning of this was that the devilish (42:14):
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John Waters: techniques that they were applying to the people now, the behavioral psychology (42:21):
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John Waters: and the propaganda tools and the group thing and all those, (42:25):
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John Waters: that were so badly understood in our culture. (42:29):
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John Waters: And I went to great lengths then to dig out all I could find to explain these (42:32):
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John Waters: concepts to people so they would know them and recognize them again. (42:36):
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John Waters: And I wanted to have a book that in the future people would be able to read it and say, well, oh, (42:39):
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John Waters: so this society we now live in, let's say, if it goes down the road that the (42:50):
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John Waters: tyrants want, it's not the only natural way that human beings should live. (42:54):
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John Waters: Something happened to make this happen. (42:59):
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John Waters: Perhaps we could reverse it. Perhaps we could go back and find another way of (43:03):
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John Waters: living that isn't so tyrannical, isn't so cruel. And that's what I think. (43:07):
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John Waters: And that sounds like a very fundamental, basic kind of thing. (43:13):
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John Waters: And it seems almost like a hyperbole, in a sense, I know. (43:17):
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John Waters: Because why? Because I'm offering it in a normalized context, in a certain sense. (43:20):
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John Waters: I don't mean here between you and me, but in the general world that there's (43:25):
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John Waters: now, these crimes are being covered up by journalists. (43:28):
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John Waters: There's a sense of normalization of the extreme and the surreal. (43:32):
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John Waters: And I want to basically be able to remind people that this is the worst, (43:36):
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John Waters: the most heinous crime in history, what has happened here. It is not a small thing. (43:40):
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John Waters: It is not the overreach. It is not these guys being so anxious to save our lives (43:45):
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John Waters: that they did a bit too much, you know, went a bit too far. No, no, no, no. (43:50):
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John Waters: This is appalling beyond imagination. (43:54):
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John Waters: And we need to understand that this can never happen again. (43:56):
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John Waters: If we can get out of this, then we have to create conditions that, (44:00):
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John Waters: you know, that it never happens again, that everybody is educated in these things, (44:03):
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John Waters: that we understand immediately when we see somebody pulling one of these tricks, (44:08):
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John Waters: we say, yeah, yeah, get off now, get off now. (44:12):
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John Waters: You know, that's what we need to do. And I think, and I have said it repeatedly, (44:14):
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John Waters: that all of this, the institutions of our societies need to be dismantled after (44:18):
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John Waters: this, including the media. (44:22):
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John Waters: And the media closed down and their buildings razed to the ground, you know. (44:23):
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John Waters: Like remember those people the two murderers husband and (44:27):
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John Waters: wife was it the Wests their building was their (44:30):
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John Waters: house was knocked down as a mark of (44:33):
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John Waters: respect to their victims well I think the same should happen to (44:36):
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John Waters: the Irish Times and RTE and the BBC and the (44:39):
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John Waters: Guardian and all those newspapers who pushed these lies and (44:42):
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John Waters: pushed this bullying campaign against the human race for (44:45):
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John Waters: those years and have left us now absolutely demoralised (44:49):
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John Waters: and destitute and heartbroken many (44:53):
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John Waters: of us and many of us name for life and many people having lost people that shouldn't (44:57):
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John Waters: have lost all this and then they say everything's fine everything's fine oh (45:02):
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John Waters: by the way there's a new variant you know that's covering up the crime and these (45:07):
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John Waters: Peter these are the same journalists in Ireland certainly. (45:12):
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John Waters: Who lined up to attack the church the bishops for covering up crimes of priests (45:16):
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John Waters: rightly so at the time but okay hey, can we now point the finger at them and (45:23):
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John Waters: say, you are the guilty one here. (45:28):
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Hearts of Oak: Yeah, and you talk about it. The crime of having mass was one of the many crimes of individuals. (45:32):
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Hearts of Oak: Just my last thought on emotion, because use a rich tapestry of language to (45:40):
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Hearts of Oak: present it, and that makes you think, but it would be too easy, (45:47):
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Hearts of Oak: very easy, I guess, to move over into anger, because there is sheer anger from all of us. (45:52):
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Hearts of Oak: What has happened but that doesn't come out and (45:58):
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Hearts of Oak: you're able to tell a story to pull people in of a (46:01):
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Hearts of Oak: horrendous time in our history and (46:05):
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Hearts of Oak: yet not go over into this shoddy anger frustration um i think that's a i'm just (46:08):
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Hearts of Oak: wondering for yourself how how do you put that down because your first reaction (46:16):
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Hearts of Oak: is maybe anger but actually you put it in a way which that doesn't come across (46:20):
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Hearts of Oak: and i think that really connects with the audience? (46:25):
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John Waters: I think that's a very, very interesting question. I haven't thought about that, (46:28):
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John Waters: but I guess it's something to do with, you know, sitting down and saying, (46:31):
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John Waters: okay, there's a story here. How am I going to tell this story? (46:36):
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John Waters: What is the scaffolding of this story? How do I construct it? (46:39):
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John Waters: And then you go off and you start to kind of find, you know, (46:44):
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John Waters: channels of understanding of the subject, whatever it might be. (46:47):
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John Waters: You say groupthink. Well, what is known about groupthink? (46:51):
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John Waters: Who came up with the term? You know, what did he say or she say? (46:54):
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John Waters: You know, what books can I find about groupthink? Very few, actually. (46:59):
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John Waters: And I tried to try, what I wanted to do in those three chapters was, (47:04):
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John Waters: conscious of the fact that the subject of groupthink was kind of so important (47:07):
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John Waters: and yet had been kind of neglected or incompletely dealt with, (47:10):
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John Waters: I wanted to create a kind of more or less comprehensive analysis of groupthink (47:15):
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John Waters: so people would know it when they saw it. (47:19):
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John Waters: Because there's a very important aspect of groupthink, which is the in-group people, (47:22):
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John Waters: whether it's a room full of people or a hall full of people or the entire human race, (47:27):
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John Waters: that they can be manipulated into a singular way of thinking by a very cunning (47:32):
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John Waters: person using neuro-linguistic programming, etc., and made to think in a certain way. (47:38):
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John Waters: And then the most important thing then is that the group think, (47:44):
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John Waters: the leader of the group think, creates an out-group. (47:48):
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John Waters: The threat of which is the stabilizing of the in-group. (47:50):
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John Waters: And this actually serves to galvanize the in-group all the more against this (47:56):
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John Waters: threat that they will undo their great work, whatever it might be. (48:03):
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John Waters: And so there's this specter summoned up outside the window of the dark force that is looming. (48:07):
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John Waters: And of course, this is always an imaginary force. In this case, it was the far right. (48:13):
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John Waters: Our societies had virtually no far right, Certainly Ireland has none. (48:18):
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John Waters: You know, the last far right that was in Ireland was the Blue Shirts in the (48:22):
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John Waters: 1930s, which were the foundational force of the current Fine Gael Party, (48:25):
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John Waters: which was the party pushing this tyranny from government buildings. (48:32):
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John Waters: So the only far right in the country was the people in government buildings. (48:37):
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John Waters: And those of us who instinctively knew that can show it historically as well. Wow. (48:42):
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Hearts of Oak: Let I just again encourage your (48:49):
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Hearts of Oak: viewers and listeners johnwaters.substack.com the (48:51):
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Hearts of Oak: book The Abolition of Reality a first draft of the end of history and anyone (48:55):
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Hearts of Oak: who is so highly regarded by Mike Eden and I read his quotes about watching (49:00):
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Hearts of Oak: one of your videos and how impressed he was of how you look through history and present that (49:08):
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