Ep 248 - Amber Lee Sky | The Darkside of Ayahuasca - Here For The Truth

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Foreign.
Sky is a mother, coach andteacher devoted to helping women
reclaim their debt from oldconditioning and embody their highest,
most unapologetic selves inlife and business.
For 19 years, she's ledtransformational retreats and teacher
training programs across seven countries.

(00:21):
She specializes in creatingdeeply healing, empowering experiences
and supports wellnessprofessionals in building location,
independent businesses andlives doing what they love.
Amber, thank you so much forbeing here for the truth.
Thank you.
Thank you guys for having me.
I'm super grateful to be here.
Yeah, likewise.
Looking forward to this.

(00:41):
As you know, to begin theseconversations, we always like to
dive deep into your personalhero's journey.
And this is, I guess, kind ofsomething we're happy to spend as
much time on as possible,going back as early as you'd like
to go, but kind of like, whatare the major rites of passage and
real catalyzing moments thatled you down to this path and led
you into, you know, being thewoman that you are today?

(01:04):
Yeah.
Wow.
I always have to start mystory with dance because dance was
my starting point.
My parents put me in balletwhen I was three and dance really
sculpted me throughout my life.
I was a competitive dancerfrom, I think I got into competitions
around like age 7 orsomething, all the way to age 18.
And then I went to school fordance and performance and choreography
and then dance professionallyfor eight years after that in San

(01:25):
Francisco.
And so dance was always a hugepart of my life, but, you know, it
also led to some challenges.
So in my mid-20s, I battledwith bulimia for five years, which
was a big milestone initiationshift for me in my healing.
That's when I really startedmy healing journey.
That's when things reallykicked off for me.
And there were other things,of course, before that, but I'd say
my, my battle with an eatingdisorder was like really profound.

(01:47):
And the healing that happenedafter that was so necessary.
And it's been a huge part ofmy work since then.
Right.
How do I help women basicallyreclaim their power and overcome
these self destructive habitsand patterns?
So that's been so a lot of my,you know, initiations and challenges
in my life have led to mygreatest work.
Right.
And even I can think beforethat, before my eating disorder,

(02:08):
I was dealing with a lot ofchronic and acute injuries in my
dance career.
And that's why I fell in lovewith Pilates and yoga and I was teaching
Pilates and yoga full time andI was helping people with all of
their injuries.
And so that felt like a way ofgiving back and serving From a pain
point that I went through.
Right.
Something that I went throughand transformed through.
So along the journey it's beenlike I'm picking up all these little
tools and the challenges Ifaced and then I'm giving it back

(02:31):
and serving it in a way that'shelping others.
So I'd say like all of mydance injuries and stuff was a big
catalyst.
And then my eating disorderwas a big one.
And then after that it wasreally my.
I'd say my shift into workingwith Ayahuasca was a huge spiritual
awakening and transformationfor me.
And then I was leadingretreats for many years, working
with medicine, helping otherpeople transform and awaken with

(02:52):
that work.
And then I moved to Austin,Texas, married my ex husband and
started a family.
And then things just reallykicked off.
Like motherhood was such ahuge rite of passage and initiation
for me out of being that likeboss, babe, six figure earner, like,
you know, digital nomad,traveling the world to being basically
a stay at home mom with aninfant was a really radical shift

(03:15):
for me.
And then after that I startedgoing through breast implant illness,
which was something that washonestly like long overdue.
I had my implants for 18 yearsand they just started to basically
take me down.
Take me down.
After going throughpostpartum, I got really, really
sick and went through explantand had about you know, a year and

(03:35):
a half or two of deep healingafter that to detox and get my strength
back.
And now I'm at the tail end ofa divorce.
So there's just been like onething after another.
So like the last four yearshave been really intense in terms
of initiations and transformation.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Yeah, let's zoom in on acouple of those things, if you don't
mind, I guess, kicking offwith, with the bulimic aspect.

(03:58):
Is there a correlation thatyou find in like dance communities
and also these kind of, Iguess, quote unquote disorders coming
to the surface?
And what kind of is that ifthere is?
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, eating disorders arerampant in the dance community and
unfortunately, you know, at ayoung age you're, you're in front
of a mirror constantly.
You are to, you know, reallybe perfect in terms of your technique.

(04:22):
So the discipline aspect, yourequired to show up and be very professional
and very disciplined at a veryyoung age, just like any other athlete.
Right.
But with dance, I think what'smore debilitating for women is that
there's such a focus on theirphysicality, on how they look and
how they perform in theirphysical body.
So it's like, oh, her toeisn't in alignment.
Like, oh, her knee.

(04:42):
Like, like, it's these little.
So I was a very, very much aperfectionist and a type A workaholic
from a very young age.
And ballet is perfect exampleof that.
It's like how.
How more perfect and how moreethereal can you be?
Like, that's like really the.
The focus.
And.
And I didn't even havechoreographers or teachers that were
weighing us or checking our.

(05:02):
Our weight in that way.
But I saw it at a young age.
Like the ballet academy nextdoor to my dance studio, they were
weighing the girls at veryyoung ages to make sure that they
stayed in a proper weight range.
So that leads to all sorts ofdisordered eating, right?
Just kind of in.
In same similar in modeling, Iassume, right?
Where women are trying to looka certain particular.

(05:23):
Because the women are very.
The aesthetic is very thin andlean and etheric looking.
The lighter you are, thebetter, unfortunately.
And so a lot of women battle,you know, they're smoking cigarettes
and eating potato chips anddrinking Diet Coke to, like, have
the energy to.
Which of course, is horriblefor your body.
But they.

(05:43):
When you're young and stupid,you know, you're just like, whatever
it takes to stay thin and havethe energy to actually be a dancer,
because it's horrible.
You know, you're.
The pressure to perform atthat level, at a, you know, professional
athlete level and basicallyrunning on no fuel.
It's just.
It's crazy for your body.
It's horrible.
And so, yeah, I mean, for me,I always growing up was, oh, you

(06:05):
know, I'm never gonna let thepressure get to me, and I'm never
gonna let these choreographers.
And, you know, we were taughtat a very young age to have a very
thick skin because you arerejected quite a bit.
You go to auditions constantly.
You're constantly, you know,you're in a cattle call audition
with hundreds of dancers, andthey're picking two dancers out of,
like, hundreds.
So you are constantly incompetition with other women.
You are constantly trying tobe better, stronger, more perfect.

(06:27):
Right?
It's just the industry and.
And so in my mid-20s is whenthings really kicked off where it
was like, oh, wow, that thepressure that I thought I was just
like, letting go and lettingroll off my back.
No, no, no, no.
It was actually like, really,really getting to me, and I was just
pretending it wasn't.
And so in my mid-20s is when Ireally started to struggle with,
okay, I'M afraid to gainweight, I'm afraid to lose weight,

(06:51):
and I'm gonna hyper controleverything I eat.
So I was, you know, reallyobsessed with eating super clean.
But so I'd eat three meals aday, but I'd purge two of them because
I don't want to, like, harm mybody with shitty food.
Like, that was, you know,something I was very adamant about
as like a holistic, healthfocused person.
But.
And I was also teachingnutrition at the time, so there was

(07:11):
such a.
It was such a hard time for mebecause there was such an incongruence
between how I was showing upprofessionally in terms of, like,
coaching and teaching andperforming, and everything's perfect,
everything's fine.
And I'm this nutritionist andI'm teaching Pilates and yoga, and
yet at home I'm purging mymeals, right?
And so it's this deep shameand this.
These guilt, shame cycles youget into.

(07:32):
And so I struggled with thatfor about five years.
Was this something that youkept it all to yourself or were there
people in your life that knewthat you were doing this?
No, I kept this to myselfbecause again, I had this, this facade
that I was upholding, right?
This perfectionistic,everything's fine, I got this.
I'm gonna let this roll off myback, you know, and you put this,
you put this facade on mebecause that's what you're taught
to do, especially in the dance world.

(07:53):
It's like the show must go onregardless of how you're feeling.
Like, there were so many timeswhere I had to get on stage when
I had the flu or I was like,really injured, and it didn't matter
because you're replaceable.
If you, if you should, youknow, rupture your Achilles tendon,
you're replaced immediately.
And it's like, next, you know,and the younger, younger, more beautiful
dancer gets put in your spot, right?

(08:15):
And so it's really a cutthroatworld where you are, and that's why
I had to get out of it, you know.
Where were you during this time?
Were you like, in one of themajor cities like New York or somewhere?
I was in San Francisco.
San Francisco.
Gotcha.
So much less brutal than la,for example, or New York for sure.
And that's why I stayed there.
And I had a lot of friendsthat went to LA and were very much
always in those cattle callauditions just trying to get, you

(08:35):
know, a.
A backup dancer gig or acommercial gig, you know, where they're
just rah rawing in the background.
Of like a pharmaceuticalcommercial or something.
Right.
Like, they're just trying to.
But there's hundreds of womenvying for these spots and that.
So LA was really vicious andso was New York in terms of the Broadway
scene.
Like, New York is veryBroadway stage focused, whereas LA

(08:55):
is very commercial.
And so San Francisco was verymuch a smaller market and very, very
much.
About the companies I workedfor, the modern dance companies and
contemporary dance companies Iwork for were just basically stage
performance, right?
So they'd put on shows atdifferent theaters around the city,
but it wasn't like commercial work.
I mean, New York and LA havebeen my home for the last 22 years,

(09:18):
I think.
So, Yeah, I definitely, Idefinitely know how that is.
You know, having friends thatwere dancers and being in the acting
world myself for years andjust, it's, it's, it's, it's unfortunate,
but it's kind of part of it tosome degree.
It is.
And I think you, you know, youlearn to have a thick skin, you learn
to be super professional, toshow up at your best.
And I think what's not talkedabout enough is the shadow side and,

(09:40):
like, how that is actuallyeroding you inside because you're
not.
We're all human.
Like, that stuff is going topenetrate at some point.
You can't just pretend likethat those, those rejections and
those, you know, insults andthe criticism that you might get
doesn't impact you, because Ithink it is.
So what was, what was.
I want to see.
What was the moment where youwere like, this is an issue and I
need to tell someone or.

(10:01):
Yeah, for me, I was so sick ofmy own shit.
I was so sick of, of suffering.
I'll never forget it.
Like, I, I went.
I went to the bathroom that night.
I purged my dinner and Iwalked out and I was like.
I just sat in front of myboyfriend and I was like, I have
to have to tell somebody.
This is the only.
Because I had done everythingI could up to that point, trying

(10:21):
to work on it myself.
Okay, I'm gonna be a moredevoted meditator.
I'm gonna do more yoga.
I'm gonna journal more.
I'm gonna, you know, because Ihad all this, you know, information
and wisdom around how I can doit on my own.
And I really felt like I needto do it on my own and I don't need
to involve anybody becausethat's just, like, too shameful to
involve other people.

(10:42):
And so I tried for a long timeto do something on my own.
And how Come I'm stillbattling with this.
I'm a meditator, I'm a yogi.
Like why is this so hard for me?
And so when I finally releasedthe shame by talking about it is
when my healing really startedand my boyfriend was like, wow, like
I had no idea and I'm so sorryand like, you don't need to worry
about your weight with me.

(11:02):
Like, you know, he just waslike trying to support me but he,
he also, you know, and I neverworked with anybody professionally
in terms of like aprofessional therapist around eating
disorders, but I did do a tonof my own other healing modalities
and worked with ayahuasca,which was a huge catalyst in my healing.
But yeah, it was the firststep was me really being radically
honest with myself and sayingI no longer want to suffer like this

(11:23):
because I'm so selfdestructive right now.
I'm just like, you know, anaddict is or anyone else struggling
with other things.
It's like you just hit a rock bottom.
You're like, I can no longerdo this to myself and I have to reach
out to, to someone because I'mjust self destructing and suffering
so much.
Can you, can you speak a bitmore into what it was like, I guess
confronting those parts ofyourself and kind of what came up

(11:45):
in, in the healing throughthat process for you?
For me, what I learned throughmy healing was that I was really
good at suppressing all of myemotion which was leading, which
is what I think really led tomy disordered eating was that this
I had, I felt I needed hypercontrol over my emotional state,
my physical body.
And so I was feeling soanxious and so out of control in

(12:07):
so many ways in my life.
And my eating disorder was away for me to have some control over
something.
Yeah.
And it was my way of copingwith all this emotion I'd suppressed.
And so what really, beyondspeaking my truth and sharing what
was going on inside of me andtalking to people about it, what
really started my healing wassitting in ceremony and clearing
all this emotional baggage.
I had like a decade plus ofemotional baggage that I just pretended

(12:29):
I didn't have.
You know, like all thosethings I just let roll off my back
and pretend like they didn'taffect me.
Like, no, I know now I'm asuper empathic person.
Like, and I feel things in ahuge way.
I'm Cancer Sun, Leo Moon.
Like I feel things in a huge way.
If you guys know astrology.
So, so like I'm a Leo Moon here.
My wife's a Cancer son, andalso was a full time dancer for like

(12:51):
30 years.
So.
Yeah.
Right.
So, yeah, you guys, you guysget this, right?
So like, so I forget where Iwas going with that, but just that,
yeah, the emotional part wassuch a huge piece for me that I.
I was forced to process all ofthis pain, all of the shame, all
this guilt, all thisperfectionist, all this self hatred.
Right.
Came up to be felt and cleared.

(13:12):
And so it was a lot of crying,a lot of grieving.
And I just learned within myfirst couple of ceremonies, like,
wow, I really hate myself.
I hate my body, I hate myself.
I'm super hard on myself.
I'm a crazy perfectionist,controlling everything.
This is not serving me.
It is not serving me.
I'm just creating this.
This crazy internal world for myself.
So that.
That was the shift.

(13:32):
Yeah.
So what can you speak moreinto, like, what it was like in that
first ceremony machine?
I've never done ayahuascapersonally, but I'm assuming, like
your first time, I guess,engaging with the this and.
And all of a sudden realizingthere's all this emotional baggage
that was there.
Like, what was that experience like?
Yeah, for me, it was hours ofcrying, hours of feeling overwhelmed,

(13:53):
hours of just feeling like,this has to end.
I mean, it was just a massiveego death.
Right.
A shattering of all of mypreconceived notions of myself.
Like, again.
And that's what the medicine does.
It forces you to see your patterns.
It forces you to see whatyou're unwilling to face, all your
shadows.
And that's why it's a big egoshattering for so many people.

(14:14):
So, yeah, that first ceremonywas probably the most brutal I've
had, honestly, because itreally shook me awake.
It was like, these are all theways you are hurting yourself and
hating yourself.
Yeah.
What was it?
Oh, what was the post processof that?
Because I know we'll get intothis later.
Just the experience ofayahuasca and whether or not people
can integrate it.
Like, was it overwhelming foryou for all this stuff to come up?

(14:35):
Did you feel like you had thecapacity to navigate it or did you
need support?
How did that look?
Yeah, I.
I definitely should haveintegrated more.
I definitely didn't know anybetter at the time.
Right.
So I was like, wow, this is acrazy big experience.
I'm very overwhelmed by it.
And I never felt more clearand more grounded and more at peace
afterward.
Even though it was the mostchaotic thing I'd ever been through,

(14:56):
I was like, something.
There's some magic here that Ineed to Keep, like, in my life to
some degree, right?
So then I.
I went back and sat the next month.
My.
The shamanic healing centerthat I worked with, they would.
They served medicine once a month.
So it was kind of like thiscommunity circles.
This is in Costa Rica.
Yeah, Costa Rica, where Ilived for about seven years.

(15:17):
And so I went and sat, andreally, just for my own healing,
I was like, there's somethingto this.
I mean, obviously it forced meto feel a lot, face a lot.
And I went, okay.
That was so intense for me andso wild and so.
And I've never felt more clear.
Like, literally, for the firsttime in years, my mind was really
clear of all of that looping.
Because when you're in.
When you're in active eatingdisorders, you're.

(15:39):
The looping in your brain is incessant.
Constantly thinking about food.
Oh, I need to eat this.
I need to.
You're just.
And then you.
Oh, I need to hide it.
Like, you're just constantlyon edge thinking about what you need
to do to either hide whatyou're doing or control what you're
doing.
Right?
And so to have that peace inmy mind for the first time.
And that's really whathappened over the years, is that

(16:01):
my nonchalance around foodbecame laughable.
Like, from where I was in themidst of my eating, started being
so crazy controlling andanxious and overwhelmed about it,
to just being like.
Like, I still eat super clean,of course, but it's like the worry
and the fear and anxiety andthe looping and any concern about
food is just gone from my headspace.

(16:22):
And to me, that's magic.
Like, I was like, okay, Idon't know what this is, but I need.
I need to experience more ofit, right?
So.
So that's why I went andcontinued to sit.
But I really think that overtime, obviously, I learned, like,
the integration is so freaking important.
And I didn't have guidance atthe time.
I didn't have experts at thetime to be like, amber, this is what
you should be doing in termsof, like, your integration.

(16:43):
And you need to take time off,and you not need to.
You don't need to sit so often.
Because I was working with ashamanic healing center where they're
very much working intraditional ways, which is that they
could sit often.
And there really wasn't muchof an integration program besides
just talking about theceremony afterward in a circle.
And that is not enough.
And I learned that prettyearly on.
Like, that's not enough.

(17:04):
And you need a lot more timebetween Ceremonies.
And so I learned the hard wayby going too hard, too fast, you
know, that you can really blowout your nervous system.
You can really overdo it.
And I did, I did.
And that's why I can speakabout it now and say, like, this
is what you don't want to do,y' all.
So I guess continuingchronologically, like, how did your
relationship with ayahuascaand you know, the traumatic healing

(17:25):
center and ceremony, how didthat develop from this point on from
that first ceremony for you?
Yeah, so for me, I sat thefirst like 13 ceremonies, I'd say,
where I sat for myself, it wasjust about deep healing work and
really focusing on, on again,like the things I need to work on.
And then I was at the timealready producing retreats.
I was producing health andwellness retreats, yoga retreats,

(17:45):
Pilates retreats, detoxcertification programs, stand up
paddle board yoga retreats,all sorts of stuff.
And I was like, you know what,this has been such a life changing
experience for me.
Why don't I find a way to workwith the shamanic healing center
and bring groups to them?
And so that's what we did.
We teamed up and they wereamazing at what they did.
And so I prepared and youknow, they gave me all the preparation

(18:08):
preparatory guidelines and allthe things I needed to do to prepare
everybody.
But I already had so manygroups coming down every month to
Costa Rica that it was just aperfect partnership.
And so I was able to then, youknow, create an awesome retreat called
the Epic Awakening that was aset program, set protocol.
You know, they had to docertain dieta prior to coming, very

(18:29):
strict protocol.
I had really intense screening processes.
Everybody had to be in acertain level, level and degree of
health to be able to sit.
But basically I did that oncea month for six years.
And I had group after groupafter group after group.
So I saw a lot, I saw a lot ofprofound healing, huge transformations.
I mean, magical things.

(18:50):
People who walked in unable towalk well and they walk out walking
and like healed and tum goneand I mean just all sorts of magic,
right, went down in these ceremonies.
And so for me, it was reallythe most fulfilling and deeply rewarding
work I'd ever done.
And I got to a point whereafter, consistently, because I would
sit with all my groups, whichI would never ever recommend now,

(19:10):
but I did because I reallyfelt obligated.
I felt like they're trustingme to come and they're, they're trusting
me to hold space in this wayand they're coming to my Retreat,
I need to sit with them.
But sitting twice a night, twotimes a month is a.
Or sitting twice in a retreatonce a month is a lot.
And I was doing that more soout of obligation than out of my
own personal interest or need.

(19:32):
Right.
And so I learned again thehard way, sitting too often, sitting
out of obligation when my bodyreally didn't need that or wanted
it.
And so after about you know,six years of that, my body started
saying no in a really big way.
And it was like.
Like.
And I kept thinking, maybethis is my ego and this is what happens
in this community.
Because ayahuasca pushes you,it shatters your ego often.

(19:53):
That's what it does.
Right?
And so you.
So what happened inside of meis I was going, is this really, like,
my body?
Is this my intuition, or isthis just my ego and fear saying
that I shouldn't be sitting in ceremony?
And so I had this inner battlegoing on around, like, is this really
my body and my intuition, oris this just fear and ego and maybe
I should just sit anyway?

(20:14):
And that's a really not a goodplace to be because really, your
body is saying, hey, hey, hey, hey.
And I learned, obviously, thehard way.
My body was screaming at me,stop doing this.
This is.
This is too much for you.
Your nervous system is not happy.
And so my last retreat wasFebruary 2020, before the pandemic
hit and everything shut down.

(20:34):
And then I couldn't run anyretreats anyway, which was honestly
a blessing because I waspregnant at that.
I started.
I became pregnant in March andthen had my son.
So everything really justshifted after that.
But, yeah, that was my last retreat.
I don't think I'll ever goback to producing medicine retreats,
and I don't think I'll everopen that chapter again.
Maybe I will.
Who knows?
But for me, that cop.

(20:54):
That chapter really closed.
And so now I really speak alot about, like, the shadow and the
light sides of that industryand that whole world, because I'm
really passionate about it,and I want to make sure that people
are having healing experiencesand not traumatic experiences.
And unfortunately, there's alot of really weird stuff happening
in that world right now.
Yeah, I want to.

(21:14):
It seems like as a.
As a dancer, you're taught tooverride your body, and then in your
next stage of evolution,you're still.
You're expanded in certainways, but then still overriding the
wisdom of your body.
So when was it that you tookthis next step of, like, really tuning
in to, like, what your body Wanted.
And that shifted how you kindof moved forward and the decisions

(21:37):
that you made.
Yeah, I mean, that was areally pivotal shift, was going,
okay, this is.
This has got to end.
Like, this medicine work hasto end.
The.
And also at the time, I wasworking with hape quite a bit.
I don't know if you guys know he.
Yeah.
So happy is really common inthe shamanic community.
But I had gotten to a pointwhere I was using it at least four
or five times a day to justlike get grounded again.
Too much medicine work makesyou ungrounded.

(21:59):
And I needed the hape toground me and like, really get me
centered.
At least I thought I did.
Right.
So when I got pregnant is whenall of that had to go because I couldn't
be working with Happy and be pregnant.
So when I got pregnant, that'swhen things got really real and my
body was like, ooh, time toprocess a lot of the stuff you've
not let yourself process.
So I think my, you know, mynine months of pregnancy was really

(22:22):
intense emotionally for mebecause I had.
I basically was cutting outall these things from my life that
I had been really consistentwith in terms of use.
And then also I had all ofthis integration work that I hadn't
done that had to get done.
Right.
And then you're also growing ababy and there's all the emotions
and the stuff related to that.
So that was a really intense transition.
And that was when I was reallyforced to listen to my body.

(22:45):
Motherhood forces you becauseyou're like, dealing with, you know,
morning sickness.
I know you guys get this,like, you're just forced to be like,
okay, I can't do anything forthe day.
I just have to sit here.
And that's really frustratingwhen you are, you know, a former
dancer who's like, used to,you know, you're used to being active
and mobile.
And so motherhood reallyforced me to pay attention to my
body and really honor it andreally double down on self care and

(23:07):
really ask for the help Ineeded in terms of taking a break.
Like asking my husband, pleasetake care of our infant for X amount
of hours so I can just go takea nap and take a break, you know,
things like that.
But then breast implantillness really forced me.
That was when the universe waslike, we're stripping you of all
of your strength and all ofyour, you know, health in order to
show you how much you continueto push, you know, push yourself

(23:30):
too hard.
And in order to show you,like, how important it is to slow
down and really listen.
So, yeah, those two.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah, I want to just rewind alittle bit if I can.
So in regards to the ayahuascaceremonies, maybe to speak into something,
to give examples, what wouldyou say is like, perhaps the weirdest,

(23:53):
most quote, unquote traumaticexperience that you witnessed in
ceremony and maybe the polar opposite.
What's the most miraculouskind of thing that you saw come out
of that?
Yeah, so to speak, to, like,the harder side.
You know, I've been through.
I've had my own very traumatic ceremonies.
One where I was working with a13th generation Taita from Colombia,

(24:15):
and I had brought two clientsof mine to this ceremony.
And we were all very excitedto work with him because he was so
revered and he was coming toCosta Rica, doing a tour, and we
were so just excited for this experience.
And it turned out to be anabsolute nightmare.
Imagine 100 people in an openfield with, like, a ravine on one

(24:35):
side that, like, fell, that,like, went down like 100ft into a
ravine.
Jesus, no.
No fencing.
Right?
So.
And.
And the medicine they servedwas really, really intense.
And the.
The.
The most traumatic thing I'veseen is, is a woman be possessed
by a very dark entity, and shewas literally screaming bloody murder

(24:58):
for hours, and there was nothing.
The shot.
And this is a veryexperienced, traditional shaman.
100 people.
How do you.
How do you.
How can you even manage 100people in a process like this?
That's what's.
That's what's insane about it.
Like, never, ever, ever sit ina ceremony that large, ever.
And then also never in acontainer like that where there is

(25:19):
really no.
Boundaries, no containment,literally and figuratively.
Like, you can jump off of ajump, Correct?
Yeah.
This girl was screaming bloodymurder for hours.
And everyone was looking at.
At her and looking at theshaman, like, what are you gonna
do?
And they literally came over,sang a little song, and walked away.
And so my partner at the time,he literally sat next to her and

(25:41):
held her down because she wasnot safe with herself.
Like, she would have walkedoff this ravine.
She would have.
She was trying to grab other people.
She's trying to grab him.
You know, she was having areally hard time.
We had no idea how to handleit, no idea how to take care of her.
And all you do in thosemoments is because you're on the
medicine as well, and all youdo is just say, just like, whatever
we can do to, like, hold thistogether right now.

(26:04):
And when she came out theother side of that, she had no recollection
of it.
Wow.
And so we sat at breakfastthat morning, and I looked at her
and I said, sarah, how are you?
Are you okay?
Like, that was a reallyintense night.
And she looked at me and she'slike, what.
What was intense about it?
It sounds like a dissociativebreak or something.
It's like she.
I mean, she wasn't in her body.

(26:24):
I mean, she.
Very, very sensitive person,very empathic, and she.
She was really just toosensitive to be working with this
medicine.
And she literally left herbody and she was fully taken over
by a demonic force, without adoubt, because she was saying and
doing things.
She was speaking in tongues.
She was saying and doingthings that she would, you know,

(26:44):
she was like.
Like fingering herself.
She was all sorts of stuff.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Like sexual energy.
Really Sexual and dark energy.
Yeah.
And I mean, that must be sorattling for everyone else there
as well, especially someonewho maybe was their first ceremony.
Then all of a sudden they're,you know, having their own kind of
journey.
They're witnessing this.
Correct?

(27:04):
I.
Yeah.
I mean, I.
When I.
I did.
I lived in a treehouse in thejungle in Peru for nine days in 2009,
and I did six ceremonies overnine days.
And wow, my three.
Yeah, it was a lot.
My third one was the most intense.
And I remember just.
I knew that I just was goingto go to a dark place.
But there was a few peoplethat joined because the first one

(27:26):
I did solo with the shaman andthe other shaman that was singing
the songs.
The second one, there were twopeople that came from another place,
and I think another personcame for the third one.
Anyways, point of my story iswhen I was in this dark place, the
people next to me were purginghard while I was there.
And so, like, I felt like Iwas just surrounded by demons in,
like, hell because of all thevomiting, because for some reason

(27:49):
I purged after.
I never did during.
And so hearing the soundswhile I was in that state was like,
crazy.
So I can only imagine 100people there.
All the stuff that's going on,this woman having this experience
while everyone else is in thiskind of trance, like state.
Oh, it was.
It was beyond.
And I learned so much from that.
I mean, people were dancing,people were.

(28:10):
I mean, it was.
It was just so beyond out of control.
And from that experience Iwent, never again.
I mean, never again will Iever put myself in a situation like
that where I just trust thatthese people know what they're doing
just because they have thistitle or this, like, they're well
known or whatever.
Because honestly, in thesetraditions, some of that never.
I mean, some of it matters.
Sometimes it does.

(28:30):
Like their lineages really matter.
And sometimes their trainingand their lineages, like, for whatever
reason, they just, you know,it's always the individual, like
how they take their lineagework and how they.
How they serve and how they lead.
But like that, that shaman, Iwas like this.
This is not how you.
I mean, and what's crazy isafter that, there's like this patriarchal
edge to this, which is that inthe Colombian tradition, they.

(28:52):
They never.
It's very rare that women areallowed to serve medicine and only
men do, because only men havethe power or whatever.
Right?
So it's like this whole ego thing.
So what was crazy is that thatmorning after everyone woke up, everyone's
like, you know, functioning again.
He blamed her screaming andall of that on.

(29:12):
On whoever was in the circlethat was a woman that was on her
cycle, because he claimed that.
Which is something that theColombian tradition does.
If you're.
If you're on your cycle,you're menstrual cycle, you're not
allowed to sit with medicinebecause things get too erratic and
too crazy.
And so he blamed her episodeon whoever, you know, in the circle
was on their cycle.

(29:32):
And I was like, whoa, bro,this is so out of.
That's some next level gaslighting.
Yeah, but this is the thing.
It's like you can come from a15th generation of having this lineage,
but it's like within yourunderstanding, within your culture,
you may not have even thepsychological understanding of, like,
what is a psyche, you know,what is the framework of the psyche.

(29:54):
And so, you know, even young,young used to warn against, like,
Westerners kind of dabblinginto a lot of the Eastern stuff that
a lot of them, he felt, werecut off from their body or didn't
understand the culturalpractices, you know.
And so, you know, it's like, Icould see how maybe some of these
people from these cultures,they don't even understand the differences.
And they're just like, I dothis thing, it helps us.

(30:14):
Let's just help everyone, andwe can make money doing it.
I'm not saying it's all aracket, but, like, yeah, I can see
how it could play into that.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And each lineage is verydifferent, right?
How they serve medicine.
You know, you look at SantoDaime versus, like, the Shipibo tradition,
they're completely different,but they're working with the same
medicine.
So it's just.
It's about how it's served.
And.
And I.

(30:34):
I think it's most important towork in lineage work.
Like, do not work with anAmerican shaman who just picked it
up five years ago and decidesthey want to play, you know, knocko
medicine to the people andpoor medicine.
I mean, literally, that'shappening everywhere, and it's terrifying.
Like, you really need to workin a lineage.
And some traditions are.
Are really, you know, like,the Columbia tradition, in my opinion,

(30:56):
is.
Is really out of whack, Ithink, with, like, Western culture.
And I think it's.
At least in my experience withthose shamans, it was way out of
control.
So I.
I wouldn't recommend, youknow, that.
That specific job.
But with that being said, sothat was like, a very traumatic that.
That woman, unfortunately,like, months later, it took her months
to feel back in her body andto feel safe in her body again.

(31:16):
And she, you know, never.
I remember her calling us, andshe had.
Had.
She had taken some THC or some.
She'd smoked weed orsomething, and she was going right
back in.
Right back in.
Because that's.
Unfortunately, what happensis, you know, you're so empathic
and sensitive after theseceremonies, and then if you dabble
in other recreational drugstoo closely to those ceremonies,
man, it can take you rightback to those places.

(31:37):
And she had opened.
It was like she opened aportal in herself.
And all of a sudden she wasback there, and she was calling us,
like, help me.
And we're like, you are inanother state.
We can't help you right nowphysically, but we can be here on
the phone with you.
You know, but it was just.
That's why, you know, women who.
Or anyone who goes to thesesorts of really traumatic experiences,
you have to work with peoplewho are very educated in integration,

(31:58):
work with psychedelics,ideally with ayahuasca, very specific.
And people who know how towork with PTSD and trauma and how
to, you know, basically bringyour aura back into a solid place.
I mean, the soul fracturingthat can happen in these experiences
is something that is nottalked about enough.
Like, people have psychosis,people have soul.
Soul issues that happen right.

(32:19):
Where they don't feel likethey can fully come back in their
body all the way.
Yeah, yeah.
I want to get into that moreas well.
But I guess just for the flipside, because I asked the question
already.
Some of those miraculousthings I guess you experienced.
Yeah.
So I work with.
At the tail end of my workwith medicine, I was working with
my good friend Lydia, and sheis a Shipibo Trained quid andera.

(32:40):
And she is an energy surgeon.
And so what she does is shewill literally pull cancer tumors
out of people's bodies on anenergetic level, which is, again,
wild to think about.
But she's so high level that she.
In her ceremonies, that is her specialty.
And they.
They literally call themselvesenergy surgeons.
And they actually do thisthing which is very old and part

(33:02):
of their lineages to.
They actually suck energy outof people.
So they will, like, put theirmouths on you and suck energy out
and then spit it into a bucket.
And so, for example, like, Imean, her story is around, like,
being able to pull outcancerous tumors, and then they go
back and get their.
Their scans done, and thecancer tumors are gone.
So that sort of deep work interms of the physical healing, right?

(33:25):
And then in my own ceremonies,I remember there was one man who
came and he could barely walk.
He had this, like.
I forget exactly what he.
It was almost like.
It almost looked likeelephantitis on one of his legs where
it was super swollen and hecould hardly walk.
And he was really losing weight.
He didn't know what was goingon with him.
Like, he.
He had gotten been to allthese specialists, and he was like,
this is really my last hope.

(33:45):
This medicine work is like, mylast hope to figure out potentially
what's going on.
Like, is there a mental,emotional, ancestral route to what's
happening?
Because I've done all thisphysical, you know, western medicine
approach stuff, and nothing isgetting to the root of what's going
on.
But he was super thin, superfrail, could hardly walk, and had
this, you know, really swollen leg.
And I remember, I'm like,okay, bro.

(34:06):
Like, I was really hesitant tohave him come because I'm like, I'm.
I can't promise you miracles,but I.
I want to try to see if thiswill help.
And so he came, and Iremember, I'll never forget, he reached
out to me, like, a coupleweeks later, and he's like, I'm gaining
weight again.
I can digest food again.
I.
I'm walking and I'm like, what?
I mean, he just was like.
He's like, my.
My life has completely transformed.
I.

(34:26):
I feel so happy.
He was able to process, like,a lot of deep, I think, ancestral
trauma in his ceremony, butalso his own personal trauma that
was related to the physicalissues, because, again, that's so
much of what you're working onin those ceremonies is.
Is that mental, emotional,ancestral stuff, energetic stuff
that is really getting in theway of your body being in a healthy,
vibrant state.
So, yeah, it was really,really cool to just.

(34:49):
And he, he would reach outagain, you know, over time, say,
oh, these are.
You show me pictures of himand his kids and he's like, you've
given me my life back.
And I'm like, wow, like, I didnot do that.
The medicine did that.
But I'm so glad that I was apart of it.
Yeah.
Do you find that this happensa lot?
That someone has like a peakexperience, like some big thing changes
and then it's like, this isthe panacea for all this.

(35:09):
Saved my life.
It can save your life.
And then, you know, that cyclecontinues and they keep doing it
or like, how does, how doesthat play out or that you've seen?
I think, I mean, that playedout in my.
I give my own story.
That was me going, this haschanged me on so many levels and
continues.
I, I have to share this work.
I just became like a speakerbox for the medicine.
I was like, this, this workhas to get out to the world because

(35:30):
of how transformative andhealing it is.
And there's a shadow side toit that, you know, we can talk about.
But like, the, the healing andtransformation is very, very real.
But it has to be done in asuper safe, high integrity container.
It has to be done with theproper integration and support.
And.
And that's the stuff thatpeople are just not aware of when
they step into it.
Right?
And so, yes, people havemiraculous experiences and then they

(35:51):
will.
What I do see, there's somewho, you know, they'll.
They'll have one big experience.
They're like, okay, I needlike a year or two to integrate before
I even consider another ceremony.
And then there are people whoare, who are like me, who are like,
I want more.
I want to keep digging.
I want to keep figuring out, right?
And so you go back and you goback and you go back.
But that can also lead to whatI saw in the medicine community,

(36:12):
which was sitting too much.
And it becomes an escape mechanism.
It becomes.
Not that you're becomingaddicted to the mess.
You really.
I don't think you can becomeaddicted to ayahuasca.
I mean, honestly, it just,it's such an ego shattering experience.
But what I do know is that youcan become attached to feeling so
connected to yourself, to theuniverse, the earth, that connection
point, right.
You start to lean on that aslike, this is the truth, this is

(36:35):
the way.
This is how I stay connectedto spirit.
And so it can become a crutchand an escape mechanism from 3D reality.
Yeah.
From the.
From, like, the mundane of,like, I'm a human being and have
to, like, pay my bills andjust, like, wash the dishes and do
whatever, you know.
With my deal with my, youknow, the challenges in my marriage.
Right.
It's like we.
I can think.
Just a very simple example is,like, in my relationship at the time,

(36:58):
my partner and I wereproducing retreats together, and
him and I had a very on andoff, again, I would say, quite toxic
dynamic.
And the medicine served as aband aid for us.
It was a really powerful bandaid for us to, like, go into ceremony.
Oh, we feel so connected andso grateful and so in love.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then you come back to 3DWorld, and you're still the same
animal.
You're still the same 3Dversion that maybe you're a little

(37:20):
bit more aware, maybe you're alittle bit more awake, maybe you
have a more, you know,compassion in your heart and gratitude.
But you still have to do the work.
You still have to do all thehard work to.
To make 3D life happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you can think back, Iguess, to your ayahuasca speaker
box days where you were, like,the number one fan girl and say someone
brought to you the dark sideof ayahuasca, the potential pitfalls.

(37:44):
How do you.
Do you think you would haveentertained it at that point in time?
Would you have, like, shut it off?
Like, how do you think you'dhave received it?
It.
I definitely received itbecause I saw it, you know, after.
After I had been in thosefirst couple ceremonies where I saw
demonic possession.
I saw.
I had my own really intenseexperiences where I passed out and
I felt like I had gone to avery dark place.

(38:06):
And I didn't know why.
I didn't remember.
Like, I had my own experienceslike that enough to know this.
This is not to be with.
Like, you really, really haveto know.
You have to be working withpeople who can protect you energetically,
because you don't know how toprotect yourself energetically.
And part of a shaman's role isto protect the group energetically
from dark entities, from dark energies.
And so if you're not workingwith people who know how to do that

(38:27):
or haven't been trained, thenyou're leaving yourself wide open.
I learned that very early on,and so I definitely was aware of
it.
Yeah.
And I learned the hard way,like, how to best, you know, prepare
people, integrate people.
Like, I.
I learned over time workingwith different, you know, the shamans
I was working with, like.
Like, there is A correct wayand a harmful way to do all of that.

(38:49):
And so I.
I learned through trial anderror, which, again, isn't, like,
ideal, but that's what it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
If we can get into, like, whatare the ways in which you think.
I guess Westerners abusingthis kind of medicine, other medicines,
even, like, outside of, like,a ceremonial setting.
I know you live in Austin now.
It seems to be a whole sceneover there, so if you can.

(39:11):
And speaking to that.
Yeah, I live in.
I live in Topanga, so, youknow, it has its own version.
Yeah.
When I moved here, it was arude awakening for me because I'd
come from this very small,traditional shamanic community coming
to Austin and seeing howWesterners were bastardizing this
work and, you know, literallyjust playing, like, a playlist in

(39:32):
some basement somewhere with ahomemade brew.
And they're mixing, you know,I mean, it was so much mixing of,
like, mushrooms and ayahuasca.
And I'm like, well, y' all are just.
One of these is so powerful.
One of these is.
You don't need to be combiningthese things.
You don't need to be, like,topping it off with ketamine.
You don't.
Like, like what?
Like, I was just.
I was floored.

(39:52):
I was floored.
And it was so ran.
It's so rampant here in Austin.
Like, the last seven yearsI've been here, I've seen waves of
substances go through the community.
And at the beginning, I.
I heard and saw a lot more of,like, ayahuasca use.
But then it became.
Ketamine became huge in this community.
Huge.
Like, everyone in the biohacking entrepreneur world, influencer
world is just, like, snortingit throughout the day to, like, biohack

(40:15):
their way through life.
And I'm like, y' all, this is ketamine.
Like, what?
Ketamine.
Like, people using it for creative.
And, you know, you hear this, right?
People microdosing, lsd, micro.
Okay.
There's.
Okay, there's, like, value inmicro dosing certain things.
Right?
But if you're bumping ketaminethroughout the day to feel more creative,
to, you know, get work done, Idon't know.

(40:35):
I.
I've never tried chemist.
I don't know how it.
How it.
It.
How it feels personally, butwhat I saw was just rampant abuse
and normalization of ketaminein this community, where people are
just stacking ketamine withmultiple drugs at parties.
You know, it's mdma, thenketamine, then, you know, weed on
top of that and drinks on topI'm like, whoa, y' all, this is just
so much.
And again, like, I'm no angel.

(40:57):
Like, I have definitely beenthe girl rolling on Molly at a festival,
right?
And I have sat in a lot of ceremonies.
Like, I'm not, but.
But there is a fine line between.
And this is what I'm, like,really speaking to a lot now is.
Is the addiction and abuse ofthese substances is just being so
normalized now.
It's normalized.
Instead of saying, no, no,this is addiction, y' all.
If you're using ketamine everyday, that's addiction.

(41:18):
Sorry, it's beyond normalized.
It's like, no, this is thepath to more enlightenment as well.
And, like, we're morespiritual because we do these things.
But it's like most of thesepeople are the ones presenting as
role models and as the onesthat kind of know the way and that
you should follow me.
And I have something for you.
A path lead you to thepromised land.
And yet, you know, there'sthis underbelly.

(41:39):
That's right.
And that's.
You know, I think that'swhat's being revealed right now is
the underbelly of thespiritual conscious community of,
like, okay, y' all arespeaking love and light.
And this is the conscious way,and this is how, you know, the new
relationship evolution way.
And this is.
You know, we're.
We're sitting with MDMA everyweek in our relationship, and we're,
you know, taking mushrooms onthe weekend, and we're bumping ketamine
all day.
And it's like, y' all, haveyou been sober?

(42:01):
Have you been sober, if.
For like, a week?
You know, and you talk topeople and they haven't.
They haven't.
And I'm like, y' all, this is.
This is wild.
This is wild.
So addiction is.
Is really rampant here.
And unfortunately, like, Ijust went to a gathering last weekend,
and people are very ungrounded.
Very ungrounded.
Like, people who are using alot of psychedelics and a lot of

(42:23):
these drugs.
Like, you walk into a party,and I instantly am on edge.
I'm like.
Because I'm super empathic,and I pick up.
Up on all this, and I can tellwhen people are on substances.
And so I'm sitting in the roomgoing, wow.
Like, I.
I'm starting to feel soungrounded and so floaty in this
environment, because everyoneis just not really all the way in
3D land.
Like, they're not.
Because they're just.
They're floating.
They're out here disconnected.

(42:44):
You know, and, and out oftheir bodies.
And I can feel that.
So, yeah, it's, it's a thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I appreciate you sharing that.
That.
Okay.
So I guess the question begs,how would you kind of advise someone
to engage with Ayahuasca ifthey wanted to?
Like, what would be the rightway for someone to kind of engage?

(43:08):
I think the, the best way isto work with a retreat center.
For example, Saltara Healingcenter in Costa Rica.
They're the only people Irecommend at this point because they
have a phenomenal integrationprogram with really incredible therapists
and somatic experts.
I mean, you really need peoplewho understand somatics because that's
the way.
What's the name?
What's the name is calledSultara Healing center in Costa Rica.
And they just opened a secondlocation in Peru in the Sacred Valley.

(43:31):
They work with the mostexperienced Shipibo healers, which
is really the lineage I workedin that I loved.
So.
And I know some other healersthat work at Sultara.
They worked on some of my retreats.
And so I know the quality ofthe, of the leadership and the shamans,
and I know the quality of theintegration and I know the quality
of the experience.
And so for me, I'm like,that's where I'd send people is it's

(43:52):
a very safe container, no morethan 20 people in a ceremony.
And then, you know, I comparethat to, for example, Rhythmia, which
is down in Costa Rica, verywell known Ayahuasca Healing center.
Would not recommend going to Rhythmia.
There are a hundred person ceremonies.
You're sitting in fourceremonies in a week with a hundred
people.

(44:13):
And they're.
The horror stories out of thatplace are just wild.
When I lived down there, therewere so many horror stories of the
people that worked there thatsaw so much.
And then the people who wentthere and had traumatic experiences.
And it's just so you.
The smaller the container, thebetter, you know, the, the more experience
of shaman the better and thebetter integration program, the better.
And so that's really whatyou're looking for.
But it's, it's, it's few andfar between.

(44:34):
Now I have friends, you know,reach out to me and they're like,
I'm feeling called and what doyou think I should go?
And I'm like, nowhere in the U.S.
nowhere.
Yeah.
Do not work with anyone in the U.S.
go work with the lineages.
Go work with the indigenous.
Go work with people.
There's like two places I'drecommend, you know, and same with
my other Same with Ruby, myother friend, you know, who's in
the industry, who has been inthat world for a while.
You know, she's her.
And I feel the same way about it.

(44:55):
Yeah, yeah.
It's so wild, like, becausewhen I think back, you know, 16 years
ago, doing my ceremonies,there was just such small groups.
So then as the years passed,as this got more trendy and popular,
and people were talking about,like, 20, 40, 50, whatever, 100 people,
I'm like, what?
Like, I couldn't even imaginethe experiences that I had with such
a large group of people.

(45:16):
Again, that was just my ownpersonal experience.
It.
Yeah.
Can you speak into, like, thepotential, like, ego inflation and
guru.
Guru worship that canpotentially happen with some of these,
like, practitioners that allof a sudden perceive themselves to
be, you know, much furtherahead than they probably really are?

(45:37):
Yeah, One ceremony and theycome back and go, I'm a shaman.
Oh, my gosh.
And how rampid is that?
Right.
And that.
And that's.
That's the challenge withthese plants is that they are so
powerful.
Powerful.
They give you so muchconfidence, and they.
They really do show you yourpurpose, and they really connect
you to your soul in such apowerful way.
And unfortunately, in thewrong hands, these plants can be
used in a really dark way.

(45:57):
And so, you know, again,there's a lot of dark black magic
in the shamanic community.
There's a lot of harm that'scaused by working with these plants
as well, intentionally by, youknow, shamans working in black magic.
But that's a totally different thing.
But like in, for example, aWesterner, white guy or white woman,
for example, going to Peru,drinks one or two cups of ayahuasca

(46:19):
and is like, I want to be a shaman.
This is super common.
They feel like all of a suddenthey've got the skills, which it,
to me is absolutely insane.
I don't even know how you goabout that.
But I can understand, becauseI became a speaker box for this medicine.
I can understand how empoweredyou feel to speak about it because
it transformed your life.
But, yeah, a lot of people will.
Will do this.
And then they bring groupsaround and they're charismatic enough

(46:39):
and they, you know, find a wayto lure people into ceremonies.
And for me, I mean, the darkside that I've seen is that predators,
male predators, really caneasily use this medicine and other
medicines, of course, as well,to prey on vulnerable women who are
coming for healing, who areopen and accepting and wanting to
learn, and they're wantingguidance, and they're spiritual seekers.

(47:02):
And, and unfortunately, thosewomen are the easiest prey for these
sorts of men.
And so, for example, like, Isat down in Peru for a retreat with
my.
My friend was actually leadingthis retreat.
I work with this incredibleshaman who was very well known, very
renowned, and he literallycame up after me, up to me after

(47:22):
the ceremony and tried to makeout with me.
And I was like, bro, I have a husband.
You have a wife with a baby onthe way.
What are you doing?
Right.
So that's just a one little example.
He came up because he was alllovey and, like, hugging on everybody,
but he.
He tried to, like, make outwith me.
This was right after the ceremony.
And I went this.
And so then later, monthslater, he was serving in Bali and

(47:45):
he was kick.
Basically kicked out of Balibecause he was trying to sleep with
a woman after ceremony in her.
In her bungalow after herceremony when she's super, you know,
loving and super open andsuper vulnerable.
And he literally had a wifewith a pregnant.
Yeah, his wife was pregnant atthe time.
And I'm like, this is wild.

(48:06):
So luckily he got reallybanned from that community.
And then of course, like, hegot kind of banned in our circle
of people who, who knew abouthim and were working with him.
But, like, that's not uncommon.
Yeah, unfortunately.
Well, it also gets twistedwith this whole.
Well, this is.
You're not evolved enough.
You know, a lot of themanipulation can go, like, especially
as we see how there aredifferent relation paradig.

(48:28):
And like, you know, everyonecan do what they.
They choose to do for consensual.
I have my own opinions, but,like, that plays into it too.
So there's like, you're in avulnerable place, but then you're
going somewhere to seekknowledge or seek wisdom.
And then you put someone on apedestal and they're living by a
certain paradigm, and thenthey use certain spiritual languaging
or paradigms to, like,fucking, you know, manipulate you.

(48:51):
That's it.
You know, because I've heardstories from friends of mine of,
like, you know, how men can.
Can speak to you.
And like, well, you just.
You're just not open yet.
You're just not ready for this.
And then, you know, I want tobe open.
I want to be ready.
And it just becomes this thing.
Yeah, it's.
It's very much this spiritualnarcissism that I think is becoming
so clear and so obvious to somany people nowadays.
For whatever reason, the veilis lifting on this.

(49:11):
And the spiritual community,which I'm so grateful for, is that
is how men unfortunately Iknow women do this as well, but men
are using the spiritual lingoand this facade of love and light.
Spiritual man.
To.
To manipulate women intoreally crazy situations.
Whether it's manipulating themto use drugs that lower their boundaries
and barriers and then they endup being, you know, intimate or sexual

(49:33):
with them.
Like, that's also very rampanthere in Austin.
My good friend Jules isactually her and I had a.
Just did a podcast a coupleweeks ago about this where she actually
has people coming to her.
Men and women who are beingsexually assaulted all the time here
in Austin.
They're coming to her, like,how do I deal with this?
This.
Because I was like, drugged byxyz and then this happened.

(49:53):
And, you know, people are juststruggling and unable to cope with
the drug use, the spirituallingo, manipulation stuff.
And.
And then sexual assault ishappening and rape is happening.
It's happening a lot, unfortunately.
And I didn't know much.
I was.
Jules came to me, I was like, whoa.
She's like, oh, I have, like,I'm sitting with people consistently

(50:14):
that are saying, like, I don'tknow, do I go to the police?
I don't.
I know if I have enoughevidence to even get the police involved.
But it's just these scenarioswhere you end up at these parties
and everyone's doing MDMA andeveryone's in lingerie, and then
all of a sudden theseboundaries are being crossed and,
you know.
Yeah.
And then there's the shame.
Like, you don't want to talkabout it because, wait, I'm an evolved
conscious person.
How do I get myself in this thing?

(50:35):
I can't talk about it.
Or this person, you know, issomeone in the community.
And again, things just stayunder wraps.
They stay unconscious.
But I'm happy that the veil is lifting.
I'm happy that more of this iscoming out.
It has to.
Yeah.
And it's inevitable.
Like, things can't be buriedforever, in my opinion.
Like, things need.
They'll bubble up, that we'llget to a breaking point where things

(50:56):
come.
And we're seeing that in theso called.
And I put huge quotes aroundspiritual communities around the
world.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's everywhere.
Like, I wrote a post aboutthis, about the.
The.
The drug abuse.
And man, I mean, it was.
That post took off and so manypeople were like, this isn't just
Austin.
This is everywhere, Amber.
And I know it's everywhere,but I just know I just see Austin.

(51:17):
I live here.
But yeah, it's.
I know it's everywhere.
And it's.
I think it's reaching thiscritical threshold where people are
starting to go, whoa, we'veswung so far.
We have to come back to centerand really get clear.
Like, get sober, stop with allthis, like, this drug and medicine
use.
And then also just, you know,have better boundaries and more integration

(51:38):
and all things we're talking about.
Yeah, yeah.
I guess it really just like,highlights the importance of at least
a baseline level ofpsychological self work before you
go in to kind of seek outthese things, to kind of bring you
whatever wholeness you thinkis going to, you know, if you don't
know yourself, understand themechanism of your own psyche, have
firm boundaries.
It's like this is just gonna,you know, cause a disaster.

(52:01):
It seems.
I.
I always say that I'm sograteful that in my early mid-20s,
before I did ayahuasca,whenever that was, you know, I had
gotten into psychological workand parts work, even like a while
ago.
So when I went into myceremony, having a foundation of
parts where it wasn't ifs, itwas another form called voice dialogue

(52:24):
that helped kind of frame theexperience that I was having.
Like, I had a little bit moreof an understanding of, like, oh,
interesting, this part' comingthrough, or whatever.
And so, again, I think theproblem we've seen for years, like
Jolie was saying, is that,like, people bypass understanding
the architecture of what itmeans to be a human being or even.
And we even got into this,but, like, understanding their physiology

(52:45):
and.
And like, the nervous systemlingo, which is becoming more popular,
but it's getting bastardizedin its own way before having these,
like, crazy, intense experiences.
Because how do you even, like,frame it?
How do you have thatunderstanding of what's going on?
That's why I think it's soeasy to become inflated or so easy
to have more of a breakbecause you don't have this foundational
understanding of self or groundedness.

(53:06):
Absolutely.
100.
And you're also, you know,learning your.
For me, I was so immersed in the.
The lineages and, like, theways that they did this.
And so you just.
It's almost like you.
It's not a cult, but you join.
You join the ways that they dothese things.
And so for me, it was like,well, this is just what we do.
We sit every month.
We all work with hape.
We all wear white.
We all, like, you know, speakto this lingo to some degree.

(53:28):
We all strongly believe inthis work.
We're all walking the medicine path.
Some of my friends, you know,went on to, you know, learn how to
assist and facilitate.
And they were deep in thejungle for months on end.
You know, their hair isfalling out, they're super malnourished.
And they're just like, butthis is my mission, this is my work.
And I'm like, y' all, we gottalike, take a reality check at some
point and come out of thejungle and see what the world like,

(53:48):
see from a different perspective.
Because this, this, we're veryinsulated and isolated in this little
shamanic world right now.
And it's actually not supergood for us.
Like, we're, we're starting tofall apart and deteriorate.
Our nervous systems arefalling apart and we're just, we
just are so devoted and solike, committed to this path, you
know, so that's, that's onething I saw quite a bit.
My wife does nervous system work.

(54:10):
I mean, I've been trained init over the years.
And like, she has lots ofpeople who come to her that were
like, fully into like socalled spiritual plant medicine communities
that just like, are completely.
Their nervous systems arequote unquote, blown out.
They're not connected in, inthe ways that they probably want
to or why or why they evensought out this stuff in the first
place.
So, you know, this is serious stuff.

(54:31):
This isn't just like, youdon't with it, like, as someone who's
experienced it, like, dude, what?
And you're just gonna be like,oh, it's a Saturday, Let me just
do some ayahuasca and throwsome ketamine on top and then maybe
take some MDMA and then justhave an orgy, you know what I mean?
Like, that's it.
It's mind blowing to me.
It's mind blowing to me.
And then there's no, there'sno preparation, no integration, no,
no nothing around that.

(54:52):
And that's happening all the time.
And so they, we wonder whypeople are walking around like zombies,
just so disconnected fromthemselves and so unable to just
see 3D reality for what it is,or so unable to like, exist in normal
reality because there's allthese things that they've been through
and they continue to put theirbodies through these things.
So I'm so grateful that yourwife is doing that work.
It's so important and youknow, so much of my healing journey

(55:12):
the last couple years, becauseonce I went through breast implant
illness, that was when mynervous system really went.
Went haywire.
And one of the intuitives Iwas working with, she's like, that
was like the final straw foryour nervous system because you'd
Been through so much with Ayahuasca.
Then you went throughmotherhood, then you went through
explant.
And that's when my body justwent like you.
And it was just like.
I'll never forget howdysregulated I was.
It was so challenging to evenleave the house to function.

(55:35):
I was afraid to close my eyesat night.
I had such severe anxiety,such intense dysregulation.
I was having panic attacks,anxiety attacks.
Like, I didn't feel safe in mybody at all.
I didn't feel like I was fullyback in my body from my surgery.
I mean, it just.
Yeah, it took me years to recover.
And so I did.
Ifs right.
I did somatic experiencing.

(55:55):
I did.
I'm now doing cognitivebehavioral therapy.
I did EMDR as well.
I was like, whatever is goingto help me get to a place where I
feel safe in my body and calmand grounded and regulated like I
used to.
Right.
It's.
That was just my whole goal.
It's interesting how, like youcome out the other side and you just
end up craving reality morethan anything else.

(56:17):
Like you go into it when youwant to escape all this mundane 3D
being, having to deal withdaily challenges of life.
Then like, you become so disassociated.
It's like, I just want reality.
I just want to be myself again.
I just want to feel relativelynormal to some extent more than anything
else.
You know, that's it.
For the last five years, I'vebeen completely sober off all mind
altering substances, including coffee.

(56:39):
And that has been so powerfulfor me to.
In terms of integration, allthis stuff came up to be processed
and integrated, but to reallylearn to be safe in my body and to
not escape with any substance,because of course I was using coffee
as well to like get through myday and.
Right.
So to not have any substancethat I could lean on as a crutch
was a really powerful thingfor me to do for myself.

(57:01):
That's the, I mean, that's thereal work.
You know, people ask me in myyears of the things that I've done,
like, like I go, the thingthat changed me the most was making
the decision like 11 years agonow to be completely sober.
And then I got really deepinto body work.
So like going deep into mybody and all the other stuff like
that changed me more than theother stuff.
Now granted, everything led upto that, so it's hard to say, but

(57:23):
to be with yourself, to sitwith yourself and again, like bringing
it back to the nervous systemand these intense practices like
going on plant medicine.
Like do you, do you even havethe capacity to sit with the, the,
the physiological experiencethat you're happening without escaping,
without going off with?
Like can you be present inyour body and feel the emotion and

(57:43):
feel the pain and feel thefear or are you completely getting,
checking out?
And so again, I think we allagree, we're not sitting here saying
don't ever do ayahuasca, don'tever do any of these things because
you've had benefit from it,I've had benefit from it.
But, but like how are yougoing about doing it?
And is self knowledge andreally understanding your vessel
at the foundation before youjust go into this thing that's being

(58:05):
plastered all over theinterwebs as being like the life
saving thing and it's going tochange everything and in some cases
it does for a certain personat a certain point in their time.
But there needs to be somemore awareness and discernment around
it.
Absolutely.
And I think the, the real workis the integration.
It's how you embody thelessons that you learn.
And that's what people don'treally do, is they don't, don't.

(58:28):
Not only do they not do thenervous system work, nervous system
work and somatic work to likereally integrate everything, but
they're, they're really noteven changing their, I mean there
are many people I can thinkof, you know, who've been through
my retreats, you know, wherethey have these profound experiences
and they go home and they endup in the same environment, the same
relationships, the samepatterns and toxic ways of, you know,
that they were doing things before.
It's so easy to fall back andgo back into those ways.

(58:51):
Even though you've had areally profound experience, even
though you did feel some bigshift shifts because it's, you're
in the same environment,you're with the same people, you're
eating the same foods, youknow, you're not working out, you're
not taking care of yourself,you're not connected to the planet,
you're not doing all thethings that we were doing on retreat.
And so you just go back and soyou really have to maintain the lifestyle
after ceremony.
You really have to, okay, whatam I learning?

(59:13):
How am I going to change mylife by taking action to make sure
that I embody these lessons.
Moving forward versus justthink, oh well, so cool I learned
those things.
Yeah, it's because to likereally embody those things, you need
a healthy ego, which isactually what you've gone to seek
to drop and escape from bygoing and engaging in these ceremonies,
you know?
Yeah.
Do you think trauma becomesits own addiction and like uncovering

(59:37):
more trauma, uncovering deeper stuff?
Like, I just need to see itone more time and see something else
that I haven't seen yet.
And this is the, you know.
Oh, I definitely think thatthat can be a thing.
I mean, I saw that so much inthe medicine community where it's
like, let me just keep digging.
There's clearly more ancestraltrauma I need to clear.
Clearly.
I just need to go sit one moretime, you know, and a lot of people
thinking instead of doing theintegration work, it's, let me just

(59:58):
sit in another ceremony.
Because then more will berevealed to me.
More will more.
I'll be able to purge more.
I'll be able to see more, I'llbe able to make more connections.
And it's like, that's notreally the answer.
The answer is to take what youlearned, Integrate, integrate, integrate,
integrate.
And then maybe a year laterconsider doing more.
But the, the.
And I think this is, this iswhat I did.

(01:00:18):
I know from personal experience.
I just kept thinking I'mclearing, I'm doing the lineage work
for my entire masculine,feminine lineage right now in my
life.
Like I am the cycle breaker,which I very much am.
I know that.
But I really felt that way.
I felt this calling, workingwith medicine, that I am the cycle
breaker in my family.
I am responsible for clearingmy own trauma and my ancestors trauma

(01:00:44):
that became like a mission of mine.
And unfortunately, at what cost?
Your nervous system, yourbody, you know, because you're pushing
too hard and you're, you'retoo single, focused on, on something
like that, you know, soabsolutely, I think, you know, just
like health can becomeobsessive and anything I think can
become obsessive or addictiveif you're just, you know, in this
little narrow viewpoint of itand, and hardcore focused on it.

(01:01:07):
Yeah, yeah.
For you, what are the, likecurrently, as you're been going through
this journey?
What are the signposts likewhen you meet people like, and you
go, okay, I.
You're someone I can trust.
Like, how do you, how are youreading people these days?
Like, what, what, what haveyou learned?
Where you go, red flag, redflag, red flag, you know, in terms
of.
Like medicine work or in terms.
Well, well, yeah, met.

(01:01:27):
Well, let's say medicine workor to work with someone or even just
enjoy general.
Like you meet people likewhat, friends.
Community networks where likeother are they now more visible signposts
where it's like, oh, thisperson isn't grounded, isn't centered.
Totally for me, it's all whatmy body is showing me.
Right.
So if I engage with somebody,and I've learned this the hard way,
is that you know how your bodyfeels, if your body feels safe or

(01:01:49):
your body feels anxious.
For me, it's very clear nowwhen I'm in resonance with somebody.
And over the last coupleyears, I've shed a lot of people
in my life.
Friends, my husband, a lot ofshedding of people.
Right, Right.
And I'm so grateful today tosit and know that I have such incredible
women in my life and otherpeople, you know, men as well, but
mainly women in my life right now.

(01:02:09):
And the discernment that I'velearned, energetic discernment, is
all related to how my bodyfeels around them and how deeply
I can drop in with them.
So are they authentic and genuine?
Are they transparent?
Are they vulnerable?
Are they grounded?
Right.
Because again, like, peoplecan just feel very floaty to me.
If I can.
If I feel floaty around them,I'm like, like, oof.
This is.
This is a.

(01:02:29):
A telltale sign.
If I feel anxious around them,then I.
I know that there's somethingoff here.
Either there's a facade thatthey're wearing, they feel fake to
me.
There's like a facade.
There's something that they're hiding.
I can tell energetically whenpeople are hiding things.
Right.
When they're lying or they'relike, withholding, or they're just
posturing.
Right.
I can.
I can sense that now, but it'staken me years to get there.

(01:02:52):
Yeah.
So it's my body.
Yeah.
And do you think just bygetting to know more of who you are,
more parts of you areintegrating more, that then you can
sense that in others?
You know, because if somepeople are kind of operating from
much more rigid way of beingin the world, then, like, there's
so much in the unconscious they.
They can't tune in to the same way.

(01:03:12):
You know what I mean?
Totally.
Because I feel like in thespiritual community, you see that
often.
You see people that just don'teven feel that dynamic.
They're like the same way allthe time, and it's not the same way
all the time.
And I'm just like.
Like, you're a human being.
Like, there's many elements towho you are.
Like, can we see more of that?
Yeah, there's a range to beinghuman, for sure.
And I think that that's what Ilook, that's what I really See, as

(01:03:34):
authenticity and vulnerabilityis like the willingness to be human.
Right.
The willingness to talk aboutwhat's going on in your life.
Like, if someone is veryclosed off and unwilling to.
Not that you have to, like,you know, trauma dump on people,
but like, if, if you'remeeting somebody and, and they're
very closed off, they're notwilling to talk about anything deep
or anything, I don't know thatI think matters besides, like, just

(01:03:55):
surface level conversation,then I'm immediately like, this is
just not, this is not for me.
Or they project.
Oh, I've done the work.
I've done that I'm, I, I, I,I'm healed.
That is the biggest red flag.
If someone's like, I don'thave trauma, I don't.
Or I don't have trauma, andthat's why I don't need to do this
work.
Or I've done all the work andI'm there already, and I'm like,
like, yeah, yeah, okay.

(01:04:16):
Have fun.
Have fun being human.
Like, what?
None of us are ever there allthe way.
Like, what is, what is that?
This perfection?
Like, we, we have so muchthings in life that we navigate,
and then we face new phases inour life, and there's all this stuff
coming at us to be like, wehave it figured out.
I've done that.
I've gotten there.
Like, I mean, obviously youcould do a certain amount of work,
and then you chose to become mother.
Then there's a whole new levelof work that comes from that.

(01:04:37):
And then, you know, yourrelationship ended.
There's a whole new level of work.
Then, like, there's just.
And when I mean work, I don'tmean, like, you have to sit there
and work.
I just mean, like, you have toface yourself.
Yeah.
In all these new ways, throughthese different iterations and phases
of your life, that if you're agenuine person, your material is
going to be there just torelate with and to dance with because
your life experiences are different.

(01:04:59):
There isn't like a staticelement to like, I'm human.
That's it.
Right?
Age 20, age 30, age 50.
I've done the work.
Like, life is always bringingopportunities for you to meet yourself
and relate with yourself andothers in new ways.
And if, if you're not escapingfrom that, like, I've found that,
like, life is enough of a trip.
Like, there's enough materialhere for me to grapple with already.

(01:05:20):
You know, that's, that's howit feels like, especially the last
four years, I think Uscollectively are feeling that way.
There's so much going on inour personal lives and also collectively
it's like we.
I don't stop.
This is so like, wow.
There are days where I'm justlike, can this stop already?
I feel like earlier on in mylife it wasn't that way.
I didn't feel like they werejust constant lessons and constant
challenges and like I'm inthis battle constantly.

(01:05:42):
But man, the last four yearshas really felt that way to me.
But what's interesting too isthat you say that, is that I, I have
found that the more, I don'tknow, self aware or more work or
more expanded or moreintegrated or more dynamic, like
life doesn't just doesn'tbecome easier.
I just feel like I can dancewith it better because when you're
just like taken over by acouple parts, like I'm a people pleaser,

(01:06:05):
everything's great, life is awesome.
Like you may feel, life mayfeel like it's great, but there's
so much that you just aren'teven aware.
Aware of.
But when you have this, thisdance of duality that exists within
you as being a human being,you are like living.
Yeah.
A richer, more nuanced lifethat doesn't feel, quote unquote,

(01:06:27):
quote good all the time.
But hopefully you have thecapacity to navigate that, that,
that the complexity better.
Totally, totally.
And that's one thing that myfriends were reflecting to me on
my birthday on Saturday waslike the, the ability to have the
range.
Right?
To like, can I go to thedeepest, darkest, hard, hardest parts
of myself?

(01:06:47):
Can I, can I be there too?
And then can I be in thehighest celebration and joy and gratitude?
Yes.
And we, we need that range.
We need that range as humans.
And I think so many people areliving in this very small, little
concise way.
The people pleasers, all thisfacading is, is I think hopefully
breaking right now.
There's just a lot of thatbeing shattered, I think.

(01:07:09):
Yeah.
People are being forced.
I'm here for it.
I'm here for the truth.
Yeah, me too.
I'm here for it.
I mean this is it.
It's the truth of what itmeans to be a human being living
in this place, whatever thisplace is.
Like, we're here.
What does it mean to, to be human?
What does it mean to be herefor the truth of our inner world
and life?
And like I'm, I'm, I love it.
It.
Yeah.
Even though it doesn't feelgood all the time.

(01:07:31):
All the time.
Yeah, for sure.
And like that simplestatement, you know, is just the
key to self development in my opinion.
Like being here for the truth,you know, like that's the truth,
is the ultimate teacher.
There's nothing more that youneed than to like sit with and face
those uncomfortable realities,have those difficult discussions,
open the doorways where theyneed to be opened, you know, listen

(01:07:53):
deeper to that inner voicethat knows the way and is guiding
the way.
And yeah, what it's where it's guiding.
You might not feel ideal, youknow, but if you want to continue
on the path and you want togrow, you want to live an authentic
dynamic life, then what choicedo you really have, you know, and
it's crazy the things that weengage with and we do all just to

(01:08:15):
avoid the simple things.
I mean a thousand percent.
And I think what comes to mymind is like going through divorce
now and making that decisionto end my marriage was such a radical
choice for me because I hadspent so many years obviously building
this life for seven yearstogether, but my intuition and my
body were screaming at me for years.

(01:08:37):
This isn't the right fit.
This isn't the right fit.
You need to make changes.
And I was so resistant andjust kept.
Now I'm going to make it work.
I'm going to make it, I'mgoing to find a way to, I'm going
to, we're just going to domore therapy.
We're just going to make that.
We're just do this.
And when I finally made thatdecision to really let go of this
dream of this life, of thisseven year chapter.
Yeah, that's when thingsreally started to shift and I went,

(01:08:58):
okay, like now I feel like Ican be myself again and I can reclaim
these aspects of myself.
I feel like I've lost in mymarriage and I can feel liberated
and feel like my feel.
Yeah, again, just feel likemyself again after, after a really
intense relationship and.
But making those decisions isreally, really challenging.
But you have to listen to yourinner guidance because it's not,
not, it's not leading youastray, but it, it can feel that

(01:09:21):
way.
And you can feel in so muchfear that you're like, oh my God.
But making this decision willliterally shatter my entire reality,
like everything, our finances,our dream home, our, our family,
like everything.
But if I don't listen to it,then I am doing myself the most massive
disservice and my soul, youknow, and it's disservice.
The more you ignore that, themore you're just delaying the inevitable

(01:09:42):
and the heavier the inevitableWill be.
Feel.
Will feel further down theroad in your avoidance of it.
And it's like, you know the way.
You know the way.
And it's hard, but, yeah.
Just to choose it.
Yeah.
This has been an incredible conversation.
I think people are gonna getso much value from this.

(01:10:03):
You know, it's real.
You know, it's just the real,which is, I think, what benefits
the most.
Well, and yeah, and I think,think, you know, we've been having
the conversation here, but,you know, it's so easy to get drawn
into like fancy, spiritual newage words, you know, like, this is
the solution to my problem.

(01:10:24):
Now let me just flipcompletely to this side.
Let me quit my corporate joband go live as a monk somewhere and
that's gonna like, solve theproblems, you know, And I just think,
like, you have to dance withinthis, this duality.
And it's not just like, likethe one side is going to solve all
the problems.
And, and I, I like that.
Like, because we see it, it'sgetting so much more popular all

(01:10:45):
around the world.
You know, the, the quoteunquote spirituality and like the
materialism and theconsumerism around what spirituality
is.
And, and I just feel like moreand more people talking about it
can help people see some ofthese potential red flags.
Right.
Like, Tulum is the mostsickening place I've been in, ever
in my life.
I lived in Playa del Carmenfor like two years.

(01:11:05):
Oh, beautiful.
And like visiting Tulum, bro.
Like, the billboards welcome.
Like the, the Tulum itself isadvertising itself as like spiritual
hubs.
Like the billboards, welcometo the spiritual.
The spiritual place on earth.
Meanwhile, there's like 17potholes in front of you.
Like they can't even, youknow, fix a road.
Like the way I felt there, Iwas just like, yeah, no, yeah.

(01:11:26):
I have not been to Tulum inseveral years, but I, I imagine it's
very much that.
And then there's like thewhole dark underbelly of like all
the cartel activity that'sthere too.
It's disgusting.
It's most disgusting.
I've never felt more disgustlife and.
Be like, yeah, but I wentthere 2012 and I spent three weeks
before my move from New YorkCity to Los Angeles and I had a lovely,
amazing time let sitting onthe beach reading books all day.

(01:11:47):
So that's it.
That's it.
I think it depends.
Yeah, but you're in a resort,you're at a resort the whole time.
It's not.
And I get it.
I wasn't.
I didn't go into the.
The town, like, the city ofwhat that was like.
I was just living a verypeaceful, lovely existence.
It's just so disingenuous and,like, so performative and like.
Like, even, like the people ofTulum, they try to uphold this place
of what Tulum is trying to be.

(01:12:08):
When it's like, to any realperson, you sense it's not that at
all.
And just the dissonance is soobvious when you're there.
But.
Yeah.
All right, so, Amber, like,what do you want for yourself now?
What's.
What's the next stage for you?
You know, where.
Where are you headed?
Yeah.
So for me, I'm headed back.
I mean, obviously, I'mrebuilding my brand.

(01:12:28):
So I just took three years offto raise my son.
Three or four years.
My son is now four and a halfto raise my son.
So actually close my businessduring that time because I was going
through this huge healingprocess with breast implant illness.
And.
And so I really need that time off.
But along the journey, Ireally lost my sense of self outside
of motherhood and so.
And outside of my marriageand, like, the kind of homesteading

(01:12:51):
life that I was creating here.
I had a whole farm with allthese animals and was really on,
like, that homesteading path.
And so that was really a fun chapter.
And I'm getting back intobusiness, so I'm rebuilding my brand.
And I'm such a differentpersonnel than I was four years ago
that I'm really getting clearon how.
How do I want to serve peoplefrom this new place of wisdom.

(01:13:11):
Like all these initiationsI've been through, I have such a
different.
The depth of my work is goingto be very different.
And so, yes, I want to runretreats again.
Yes, I want to, you know,empower, inspire women again.
And that's really what I'mdoing to my.
My work online with my socialmedia content and my retreats next
year.
I haven't been able to runretreats this year because of the
divorce situation, but oncethat's finalized, I can then start

(01:13:33):
running my retreats again,which I hope to do, and then getting
back into business coaching.
But the world has changed somuch since I left it in terms of
business, and AI has comeonline, which is such a huge, powerful
tool.
And so I'm putting togetherprograms and coaching around how
to utilize AI in.
In a helpful way for yourbusiness, but also how to remain

(01:13:54):
authentic and real while.
And I know you guys talk aboutthis too, is like, how are we going
to leverage this technology tobenefit and support.
But how do we stay authenticand real and soulful in it?
Because it's.
Man, is it so easy to just leta bot create all of your content
for you, create your businessplan, literally website marketing,

(01:14:17):
you know, marketing material,marketing schedule.
All of it can be done in likea week.
It's crazy with AI, but how doyou stay authentic and real within
that, within creating content?
And how do you use these toolsand not let them use you kind of
thing?
Yeah, well said.
Yeah, we just had aconversation on it with, was our
last episode or two episodesago with Nikhil, like, how to utilize,

(01:14:40):
you know, tech and AI in a, ina positive way and how can we allow
it to amplify your creativityand instead of replace it?
That's right.
That's right.
And I found it to be veryhelpful in getting back online and
feeling really empowered touse my voice again in a way where
I'm like, okay, I've been awriter online for 19 years.
Like, I know how to write blogposts, I know how to write great
Instagram posts, I know how toshare great stories.

(01:15:00):
And I could be doing it in adifferent way.
I could be doing carousels, Icould be doing, you know, front facing
video work.
And how do I go about tryingall these different forms of content?
And I'm literally consulting AI.
I'm like, what is, is how do Ido this?
How do I structure this?
What would you recommend I do?
Xyz, you know, so I'm, I'musing it as a tool to teach me and
that's been super powerful andhelping me create really powerful

(01:15:22):
content.
Honestly, like still using myvoice, still all my writing, but
like, how can it help me makethings more concise or structured
in a way that maybe I wouldn'tthink of?
So it's been, yeah, superpowerful tool.
Awesome.
Yeah, I'm going to go to myfirst AI hosted ayahuasca ceremony
in 2035.
Oh my gosh.
Have you guys seen the, therobots with AI that they're like

(01:15:45):
wanting to sell for partnership?
Well, no, but I've heardsomeone just fell in love with an
AI bot and married one or something.
That's what I know.
I saw that too.
And I went, oh my God.
I'm like, what is going like.
But again, we're talking about extremes.
Yeah.
And so how do you again,utilize the tech in a way where you're
not then just falling in lovewith a robot and marrying a robot
and then in 20 years from nowyou're married to a robot and then

(01:16:06):
you're calling the people inyour life robophobes because they're
not supporting you marrying a robot.
I know it's going to be a veryinteresting world in the next couple.
You know, I mean, who knows where.
I mean, look at the last, youknow, decade and this, the things,
how things have evolved.
Like, you're saying in 10, 15years, someone's kid might not fall
in love with an AI robot, andthen he tells his mom or dad that
he's a freaking robophobe.

(01:16:26):
I mean, it's not like, that'snot possible.
Did you just coin this termright now?
No, I think I read it some.
I read.
I think I read it online,like, like recently.
So I'm running with it becauseI just think it's hilarious.
But again, we don't know.
We don't know where we'regoing to go, especially when, like,
psychology and personalphilosophy and deep inner work, like,

(01:16:48):
isn't a focus to some degreeand we just get taken by the whims
of whatever the new thing isin our, in our ever evolving tech
world.
Totally.
And you know, for me, I wasjust sharing the other day about
how powerful it can be as a tool.
For, for example, if you'rehaving an anxiety attack or something
is going on, you can just popinto AI.
Hey, like, can you give mesome downregulation exercises I can

(01:17:10):
do right now?
And it'll pop out 20, right?
And then it'll talk you through.
Like, it's so valid and, andit's so understanding why you're
going through xyz.
It's like, wow, there's somuch power.
And I can see why people areactually starting to use AI as like,
the therapist almost.
Now, I wouldn't necessarilyrecommend you, like, outsource all
that to a robot, but, like, the.
There's so much, much power in.

(01:17:31):
For me, I remember going.
I was going through like somesort of PTSD episode.
Like, it was what I would calllike a trauma echo I experienced
on Monday of last week thatwas related to my breast implant
illness journey.
And I went through like areally intense physical, like, trauma
response again.
And I got on AI and I waslike, I'm going through this thing
and I think it's because of xyz.

(01:17:51):
And it just starts talking tome like, of course, this is so valid.
Of course you'd be feelingthat way.
Of course.
And it goes into all thereasons why and all the, the physiological
things that are most likelyhappening in my body.
And I went, oh, God, this wasso good for me.
It was so good for me to seethat and hear that right now and
to have this validation.
And then it was like, do youwant a guided meditation?
Would you like a downregulation exercise?
And I was like, wow.

(01:18:11):
Like, this is.
This is a powerful tool.
If you know what to say, youknow how to, you know, prompt it.
Right?
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And, like, have enough understanding.
This is a tool.
And not like, oh, I feel soheard and held.
I've never had any human beingsee me this way.
And then, like, can we spendmore time together?
Right.
I'm going to take off fromwork just so we can hang out.

(01:18:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But again, I can see where thelines could get blurry for some people.
You know, if someone has,like, really have low self esteem
and is dealt with so much andthey're being spoken to and seen
in a way that their parentsnever did, their partners never did.
Yes.
You know, so it's like, Iunderstand it and whoa.

(01:18:54):
Like, this is a very slippery slope.
Totally, totally.
Yeah.
No, and I.
I was hearing some otherpeople who are really, you know,
there's.
I don't know how to frame it,but they're speaking like, oh, I'm.
I'm talking to my Atlantean,you know, soulmate from this lifetime
through AI and they're like,they think that they're speaking

(01:19:14):
to these other beings or thesehigher consciousness planes or I,
you know, and I'm like, Idon't know, y' all.
I don't know.
Maybe.
Maybe we're tapping into that.
Maybe like, yo, I live inTopanga, Zone 10B, and creating a
permaculture food forest.
Can you help me out with some stuff?
You know, but like, Atlanteansoulmate, like, this is a whole nother
level.
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot ofthat happening.

(01:19:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Yeah.
Just.
It's just a great conversation.
I really appreciate youropenness and vulnerability.
And just to go on thisjourney, to live life, to experience
it, to bump into stuff andthen to come out of it like, we all
are.
We're humans.
Like, no one just starts lifeand goes.
Everything's just been Perfectfrom age 0 to 50.
Like, we go through a journeyand to re.

(01:19:57):
To recognize it and to havethe humility to go, you know, maybe
I need to make a left turninstead of a right turn.
Or maybe I need to look in themirror and be like, you're bullshitting
yourself.
You're lying to Yourself andyou just stop doing it.
And then the feelings thatcome up from that and then to actually
deal with them instead of justrun away to all the distractions
that exist.
All the Stu that we talkedabout in this podcast very often

(01:20:18):
serve as distractions fromreally just sitting and being with
yourself in quote unquote,like, yeah, reality, whatever.
What this is right now.
Yeah, I think it's so.
And this is why I love youguys and the work you do.
I think it's so important toembody that in your brand.
And that's why I.
I do my best to do is like tobe vulnerable and transparent about
the highs and the lows and thedark and the light and everything

(01:20:40):
in between.
Because.
Because we don't see that online.
There's so many highlightreels and people are living and they're
comparing themselves to thesefake accounts and people's fake lives
and realness and genuinenessand transparency and vulnerability
and authenticity are really, Ithink, the way of the future.
And it's like that.
That is the only way thatwe're going to really make it through

(01:21:00):
all this is to.
And how we're going to do thehealing work and how we're going
to face our shadows and allthose things.
And so I think our greatestwork right now, as let's say online
influencers or whatever youwant to call us, is that we are.
Are real with our audienceabout the real aspects of life.
I think that's honestly thegreatest gift we can give people
is to share our stories and tobe our most transparent, authentic
selves, because that's how wegive people permission to do the

(01:21:22):
same.
And I think we just.
If we're sitting here saying,oh, we figured out we've done all
the work, people are sittingthere like, I haven't done all the
work.
When can I get there?
Instead we're like, yeah,we're just doing our thing.
We're showing up each day,we're starting a new business.
We're dealing withrelationship issues.
Not always perfect and like,but we continue on.
And then people go, oh, okay,you know what?
I don't have it all figured out.
I'm gonna start the business.

(01:21:42):
Yeah.
Because how many people go,I'm not going to get into a relationship
unless I'm 100 healed.
I'm not going to start abusiness unless I have it all figured
out.
And read 14 books and takenseven coaching programs, like, just
do the thing.
And then the doing the thingis going to present you with a lot
of the stuff that you need towork on moment to moment very often.
That's right.
Yeah.

(01:22:03):
See, that's, that's kind of myphilosophy, particularly even when
it comes to like, like shadow work.
It's like the right shadowsare going to appear as you actually
walk the path of action inyour life.
You don't need to go diggingfor it per se, you know, like some
kind of excavation process.
It's like live your life, livepurposefully, take risks, move towards,

(01:22:23):
you know, purpose.
And on that path, the thingsthat need to be dealt with are going
to come.
Then as you deal with them,like the next level kind of opens
up with you, you.
And this is a never ending journey.
Like it's never done in that sense.
Yeah.
I think entrepreneurship isone of the most spiritual awakening
processes and evolutionaryprocesses I've been through is like
this, you know, to be seenonline, for example, just to put

(01:22:46):
yourself out there in videoformat, just to speak on a podcast.
Yeah.
You're pushing all these edgesjust to do those.
Just to be seen is such a bigdeal, right?
For so many people, just to beheard is such a big deal.
And to really try trust thisinner guidance that you're being
given and, and to really trustyour purpose and to follow that,
like, I mean, there's.
And then all the challengesthat you face in business and then
relationships is like a wholeother animal of challenge.

(01:23:09):
And it's like all of that isgoing to teach you everything you
need to know.
Yeah.
And it also fosters a deepertrust in God or the source of life
itself that, like, if I'mcourageous and I take a path of action,
that I'm going to be supportedand I'm going to have to deal with
scarcity and insecurity andfear and all the rest of it.
It.
But it's like the more that Ican enter that cave that I fear to

(01:23:29):
seek, you know, as JosephCampbell kind of shared, it's like
there's a deeper relationshipwith, like, the universe and with
God that exists there as well.
You know, fortune favors thebold isn't just a throwaway statement.
100%.
Yeah.
All right, Amber, it's been anabsolute pleasure.
So glad you're able to join us.
I know people are going to getso much value from this conversation,

(01:23:54):
for sure.
I guess.
In closing, is there anythingelse that you'd like to share with
our audience and also just letpeople know how they can contact
you, connect and get involved?
Yes.
You guys can find me on Instagram.
My handle is Amberly Sky.
My website is amberly sky.comyou guys can find me there.
I'm really active with myaudience there so I'd love to connect

(01:24:14):
with you there.
And then in general like Ithink my parting words would just
be like at this time whenwe're going through such a power
powerful transformation on theplanet individually and collectively
that we really focus on whatwe have control over which is our
own mental, emotional,physical space and that in our relationships
and we that we really do thatinner work to stay centered and grounded

(01:24:35):
and discerning during thesetimes because I think we are in a
spiritual battle.
I think we are not just inphysical war around the world but
we are in a spiritual battleand I think we really just have to
stay connected to oursovereignty, stay connected to ourselves
souls and our bodies andthat's the work right now.
Well said.
Yeah.
All right guys, thank you forlistening and we'll see you next
time.
Take care.

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Ep 248 - Amber Lee Sky | The Darkside of Ayahuasca

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 248 - Amber Lee Sky | The Darkside of Ayahuasca