June 4, 2024 • 51 mins
I sat down with my friend Aimee Gallo to talk about nuances in the health and wellness space and it morphed into a conversation that challenges conventional diet wisdom and explores the ever-changing landscape of food and health. Aimee has 20 years of clinical experience in holistic and functional nutrition and 30 years of study. This conversation was on fire
We talked about
- The nuances of diet and nutrition
- The evolution of influencers and the changes we see them making in the diet world
- The cyclical nature of diets and eating habits
- The differences of a healing diet and a healthy diet
You can find Aimee
Website: Vibrancenutrition.com
Podcast – Blasphemous Nutrition on all players: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blasphemous-nutrition/id1724482792
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vibrancenutrition/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Jolene (00:00):
So I recently sat down with my
friend Amy Gallo. She is a functional
nutritionist with over 20
years experience working in
the nutrition field, plus 30 years
of studying nutrition. We originally
sat down to talk just about nuances in the nutrition
(00:21):
field and it just morphed into this
wonderful conversation that you're really just not going to
want to miss. So tune in.
Are you ready to forget the fads, diet, dogma
and go beyond the calorie? You know, deep down,
there's gotta be a better way. Welcome to holistic
health made simple, where ancient wisdom and science
(00:41):
collide. I'm Jolene, your nutritional therapy
practitioner, and I'm here to empower you to
think outside the box and finally get healthy.
Together, we'll dive into the power of the gut metabolism
and your overall health. No more yo yo
dieting, no more quick fixes, and no more
confusing advice. Just simple, practical
and personalized steps that will help you reach your goals and
(01:04):
feel amazing. Are you ready to reclaim your
health? Grab some water and let's go.
Hey.
>> Amy (01:11):
Hey, everybody.
>> Jolene (01:12):
I am so excited to have my friend Amy here.
And today we are going to talk all about
diet and nuances and why
it's so important to not follow the
rules, basically. and how important those
nuances is. But before we get into it, I would
love Amy to tell us a little bit about
herself and how she does what she does. Like how
(01:35):
she got into it and what she does.
Welcome, Amy.
>> Amy (01:39):
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I'm excited
for this conversation.
I started studying nutrition when I was about twelve years
old and I was one
of those kids in the
nineties who became a radical
vegetarian animal rights activist.
And, I had some family members that were
(02:01):
concerned about me eliminating
meat from my diet. When I decided to go vegetarian,
they specifically were concerned about my protein intake and my
iron and, you know, my, at that point I was
13 and my 13 year old logic
was, well, there's millions of people in India
who are vegetarian and they're fine, so this
has to be fine. So I went to the local life and I looked
(02:24):
up vegetarian nutrition books
and fell into this rabbit hole
of discovery that what we eat actually
has an impact on our health.
And this was never a conversation that occurred in my
household. Food is food. Food is what you eat when
you're hungry. Some people like certain foods, some people don't like
certain foods, and that was kind of the extent of it.
(02:46):
So to understand
that what we put on our
plate has an impact on the
quality and the quantity of our
lifespan completely
blew my mind at, 13 years old.
And so I started
devouring everything I could about nutrition,
(03:08):
vegetarian nutrition specifically, because that was my
bias and I was convinced that was the key to saving
the world. And by the time I was 15,
I decided that I wanted to pursue this as a
career. And I've been really, really
lucky. I'm, one of the few people I know
who went through college
pursuing their passion, emerged from
(03:30):
it, still passionate about that topic,
and got to create a career doing
so. and so I've studied
nutrition for 30 years now. I've been in
practice, as a health
coach before, that was a word, because
I decided I did not want to become a registered
dietitian. I did not want to work in the hospital
(03:51):
system. And when I emerged
from undergrad and chose
not to pursue the registered dietetics tract,
I was basically told there's, you know, no one's going to
respect you. You're never going to get a job anywhere.
That's what the school told me, my advisors,
except for one teacher who said,
(04:11):
you have zero scope of practice, so
don't be stupid and don't get yourself in
trouble. But you have no scope of
practice, so there's no rules for you.
>> Jolene (04:23):
Wow. Nowadays we have tons of scope of
practice all of a sudden. Well, I mean,
yeah, to an extent.
>> Amy (04:30):
To an extent. Yeah, at that, you know, but, but at that point you
were either a registered dietitian or you were nothing.
And, and my running coach
was looking, he was like, hey, do you want to
coach? Do you want to do nutrition work with my runners when
you finish school? And I was like, absolutely, that would be great. So
I was able to start my practice immediately after receiving
(04:50):
my undergrad and I called myself a nutrition
coach because again, there were no labels for us at
that point in time. And, I've been in
practice ever since. After about,
let's see, 14 years,
I finish. After about ten years,
I went back and got my master's degree.
(05:11):
And so now I have two degrees in nutrition
and I'm, you know, I've got street cred as far as
licensure goes in a couple of states.
But, yeah, I still love
the topic, I'm still totally passionate about it, and
I see clients privately and I also have a podcast called
blasphemous nutrition where I discuss
nuance on a regular basis and
(05:34):
get, a little feisty about it.
>> Jolene (05:37):
Oh yeah.
Well, I am excited to have you here and I love your story.
Because, yeah, I get it. Most, a lot of us
in this space had some sort of health
crisis that or something
happened that developed the passion. I
was one of those that was always like, yeah,
I went into fashion, but I had a nutrition
(05:58):
knowledge from that because of my
undergraduate, for whatever reason, the college I
went to, my undergrad was together with fashion. So I had to take
enough of those to actually get my, degree because
you know how that all works. So I'm like, okay. But
you know, so I just, I find it interesting that you
just kept going and going, and it's like some of us just
always had it sprinkled in, or some people knew nothing at
(06:20):
all. And that's where
the nuances are important,
because there's people in,
good, I don't like to say it's good or bad, but there are certain
people who found or had a health crisis and
found a way that got them out of that health crisis.
And they swear
(06:41):
that that's the only way to live.
>> Amy (06:44):
Right.
>> Jolene (06:44):
It's the only, like, I mean, I started
this last set because this is my third time
down this health journey path. So the last time I started
on a ketogenic diet. And
at first I was like, okay, this makes sense.
But I understood some of the nuances
shortly thereafter. Within a few months. At the
(07:04):
beginning, I did not understand any of it. But
then there was
all these dogmatic zealots,
and I still think a
ketogenic diet can be a great therapeutic approach, and some
people need it and some people don't. But it's not the end
all, be all. But I'm not here
(07:25):
to bash, you know, we're not here to bash the ketogenic diet. It's about
the nuances that people don't let in. You've
got influencers now changing their mind. I mean,
yes, so, which is exciting.
>> Amy (07:37):
To see that people can change their mind.
That gives me hope. That gives me hope that people are
willing to change their perspective or adjust their
perspective over time. And because I've
been kind of entrenched in this field
for so long, I've seen so
many things, like what we're currently
(07:58):
emerging from now is really
the third iteration of
low carb versus vegetarian. The first
time this happened, to my knowledge, the first time this happened
was in the late sixties, early
seventies. We had, you know, this
environmental vegetarian movement that emerged from
hippie culture. And in the early seventies was
(08:21):
the first time that Robert Adkins published a
book on low carb diets.
And so there was that friction then, and it went
away and we had, you
know, nasty ass, low carb, low, sorry,
low, low fat
snack wells. Right. And in the late nineties,
(08:43):
in the mid to late nineties again, we had this resurgence
of vegetarianism, animal
rights advocacy, coinciding
with the republication of Adkins
book, the Atkins Diet Revolution.
And so the nineties early two thousands was, again,
this friction, this repeat of what we saw in the
seventies. That was when I came into the field,
(09:05):
and I did not realize that what I
was living through was recycling of the
1970s until about ten years ago,
when it showed up for a third time.
And it's really interesting
because these
food culture wars
(09:25):
are very closely tied
with fashion. Now that you mention it.
>> Jolene (09:31):
they are.
>> Amy (09:33):
When Keto came up with this resurgence
of what we're now calling plant based living, which
incidentally, has many of the same arguments
that were being thrown at us in the nineties,
the vintage sort of
long, flowy granny dresses, doc
martens, collared necklaces
(09:53):
were in fashion, as they have been
in fashion recently, as they were in
fashion, at least the flowy
floral dresses in the 1970s.
So there's an element with
our pop culture as it relates to
nutrition, very much following the
(10:13):
once a generation trends of
fashion and recycling
movies from our childhood, all of that stuff. It's
just this
big churning of regurgitation
that I'm seeing over and over again.
And if I'm blessed to live long enough,
in 20 or 30 years, we.
>> Jolene (10:34):
Will see it again. We will see it again.
And I didn't realize it because we have recycled it over and
over and over again. And, it's,
yeah, it's amazing how the trends
recycle. And I'm sure that some of
it has recycled prior.
Yeah, you know, it's just we didn't as,
it wasn't as pronounced. And I think their cycles get
(10:57):
closer and closer. So you might not have to wait very long to see it
all over again.
>> Amy (11:01):
I hope I get to wait long because I'm already bored of it
the second time around.
>> Jolene (11:05):
So, like, rid of all those clothes
and I gotta start all over
again.
But then the nuances, like, even, with
what we call plant based now, people
will say they're plant based, but when we look at
it, there's nuances
even within that.
>> Amy (11:24):
Right, right there is room right
now, yes. For what we would have called
flexitarian or semi vegetarian in the
nineties, where, you know, a plant based
diet isn't as,
it's, not as dogmatic as it was before. About
avoiding all animal products or
avoiding all meat and seafood. I
(11:47):
think some of that this time around may be
in part because we've. We did get so
extreme in the eighties and nineties with pushing fat as low
as it could possibly go with pushing
ideal body type. You know, the whole
Kate moss heroin chic nonsense,
right. That we went so extreme that people
(12:07):
don't have a palette now for that level
of dogma. with perhaps
regards to plant based, environmental based
eating, specifically. Specifically. I mean, I definitely see
extreme dogma peppered in the field
in many ways. But as far as anything that
is going to break through into the mainstream, as plant
(12:27):
based living has done, I don't
think by and large, many of
us are willing to swallow that bitter
pill again.
>> Jolene (12:37):
Well, that's a good thing because I think the whole, when we
pushed the fat really low, it made a lot of people sick and.
>> Amy (12:43):
Absolutely.
>> Jolene (12:44):
And the
whole culture of diets,
which I don't think either one of us love.
I like diet in the term of, it's the way you
eat. It's what you eat, not in the form
of what I'm like.
Bugs me. When people are like, their identity is tied
to the way they eat. you
(13:07):
are more of a person than
that. I get it. You like to eat vegan, or you're a
keto or palette, but that's not your identity.
That's just food on a plate.
>> Amy (13:17):
For some people, it is their identity, though, particularly for
those, I think, who had that significant transformation.
It is like, we
also have this entanglement in at least
american culture of our
food and what we eat and what we choose to
eat. Having almost a
(13:37):
religious
aroma to a religious. Like there's this. Just this
subtle underpinning. Underpinning of
religiosity. And it
doesn't surprise me at all that people will identify, like,
say, I am keto and or I am paleo
or what have you, and strongly identify that with
(13:58):
that as though it
were a religious belief,
particularly if they have had that health transformation
from doing that. Right. It's like being born again. Yeah.
You are a walking testimony of how
this works. And you want to spread the good word
and you want others to be reborn as you
(14:19):
have been reborn. And
I've kind of come to this hypothesis
as I've been watching things,
over the last ten years, particularly reach kind of a
fever pitch with the splintering
and turning, everything into an identity.
Identifying yourself by your illness, by your diet, by
(14:40):
your politics. Right. All of that that we're doing.
It seems that in the. It seems that there is
almost a deeply wired
need for humans
to have this greater sense of meaning.
And in the absence of what we
collectively used to have, you know, our
(15:02):
church and, you know, the US is
largely, in many places, a secular culture
now. I almost wonder
if, in the
absence of that structure, that
people are seeking it elsewhere
and becoming drawn
into Instagram gurus
(15:24):
as their
leaders. It's a weird.
>> Jolene (15:29):
They're pastor, their priest.
>> Amy (15:32):
Right. They're food
popes. just because it
has so much of that, it has
so many similar themes. There's the
fervor, there's the conviction, there's the dogma.
And if there is someone who is in the
fold who breaks away, who changes
their opinion. Sarah Ballantyne is a
(15:54):
great example, with paleo
autoimmune paleo. And in the last couple of years,
she's really pulled away from that and has been critical
of some of the things that she helped
popularize, and her community
ripped her apart for it. And again,
it's very similar to how, in
a tight knit
(16:15):
community, if you don't follow the
rules of the sect, you are cast
away. Yeah. And, you know, this goes, of
course, beyond organized religion. This is something very fundamental
to human.
>> Jolene (16:27):
Tribal behavior, our m
tribal instinct. And, I noticed that with Sarah
Ballantyne was a big one. yeah, I noticed the
change. I was gone in the middle.
she was very dogmatic. But speaking of
dogmatic, she was very dogmatic about a lot of things, and so I had
trouble. So I actually, she was
(16:48):
a person that had a great wealth of knowledge,
but when she got really dogmatic in her
thinking, I couldn't take it, because it's like, there's.
Let's go back to the nuances. There's.
That one way isn't the only
way.
>> Amy (17:03):
Right?
>> Jolene (17:04):
Like, even if you're vegan,
there's lots of ways to be vegan. And I keep bringing that
up because I like to use something on the outlier, like,
there's lots of ways to be vegan. There's lots of ways to be keto.
There's lots of ways to be paleo mediterranean.
But when you get into that
fold, and that's where I see the nuances
go out the window, even with their tribal leaders,
(17:27):
is that, well, here are the rules. You got to follow the rules or you're not
it, right? Like, how many times have you
heard something, somebody say something? Well, that's not
keto. And. And. And it's
corn oil. And now, I'm not a big proponent of corn oil,
but technically, that's
not. I mean, technically, that's not going to affect you getting
into ketosis or not. Is it healthy for you? That's a
(17:50):
whole other story.
>> Amy (17:51):
Like, yeah, yeah, I mean, if it's. Yes, yes,
exactly.
>> Jolene (17:54):
You know, there's two parts to this. There's the health part,
you know, or vegan. It's like the plant
based crap versus
fruits, vegetables, nuts and beans. Like,
you know, when you did it, there wasn't all this processed
food, and people would go, how did you do it? It's
like, well, because you ate real food.
>> Amy (18:16):
Like, yeah, I mean, yeah. when I started,
there was. There was. There was Morningstar farms. That
was it. Ah, yeah.
You know, Morningstar farms had been around since the seventies,
and I was. I had just started. I was probably
three years in. I was vegetarian for 13 years.
I tried so hard to be vegan, and after about three months,
my body would just need cheese or eggs. And so I
(18:37):
was never, you know, quote, a good vegan.
And this was badge of shame that I very
quietly carried. But,
Boca burgers came onto the scene, soy milk
came onto the scene during that time, and I
was eating a great deal of processed soy,
which really ended up messing me up so
(18:58):
bad. But this is the thing that we see,
too, with all of these food fads, is when they initially start
off, because they eliminate a
lot of the commonly
consumed processed foods.
Initially, when people would go keto or
start the Atkins diet in the seventies especially,
(19:18):
they were effectively eating an
unprocessed diet. And
so they were getting a lot of nutrients
and feeling better because there were things that had been taken
out and replaced with more wholesome
foods. What I saw in the nineties
and early two thousands, I was working in a health food
store at the time, and people
(19:40):
initially would come in and they're on this,
Atkins diet and they're feeling great, and they've lost 40,
50, 60, 70 pounds. And, oh, my gosh, this is
amazing. And then a couple years later, Adkins
started making their Adkins bars. And, there
was the low carb spaghetti made with soy flour
that started coming out. And the more the
industry responds to the demand and
(20:02):
creates the processed foods that people
miss, but
use it with.
How do I want to say this? You'll need to edit this.
As the industry begins to respond to the demand,
they create hyper processed foods that fit the
(20:24):
label of Atkins friendly, low carb
friendly vegan using
super processed ingredients.
So the macros look right. The
ingredients are within the
rules. Yet these are hyper
palatable, hyper processed foods. And so
people who jumped on the Atkins bandwagon
(20:45):
five, six years later, after they saw their friends
and their family and all these people having great success at it,
who had access to these hyper processed, Atkins
friendly foods, they would lose maybe
1520 pounds. And that's it. And then they'd
swallow. Same, thing happened this time around. There
was paleo. Paleo by
definition, unprocessed
(21:07):
diet. Now, 15 years later, we
got paleo snack cakes, paleo this, paleo that,
right? And paleo then became keto. And
then Keto became the invitation to create all of
these, you know, sugar, alcohol,
sweetened keto. Crazy nonsense
stuff.
>> Jolene (21:25):
It's crazy. And for me,
I'm always upfront is I never tolerated
erythritol. And if you were a true
keto back, you know, seven, eight years ago,
you couldn't have the other sugar alcohols. It was
erythritol. Well, I couldn't tolerate it. So
that kicked all the processed junk food out.
So I really got healthy by eating whole
(21:48):
foods because that's all that was left. That was all that
was. You can't even bake yourself something
without the erythritol. Without the erythritol, because monk
fruit is so strong.
Everyone's like, well, just, you're taking out a dry ingredient. So if
you're trying to bake a cookie or cake or something, you can't take
out a cup of a dry ingredient. Like
(22:09):
it just doesn't work.
>> Amy (22:10):
Exactly.
>> Jolene (22:11):
So you're stuck with pretty much whole foods. And I
think, you know, back in the day when
there wasn't, like even the vegan, when you started,
there wasn't a lot of processed food, so people ate, more
real foods. And I had a conversation recently with a
family member, oh, look at this plant based butter. And I looked at her
go, that's nothing more than margarine.
(22:32):
And she's looking at me like, like I'm nuts. And I'm like, that's nothing
plant based.
>> Amy (22:35):
What do you mean? It's margarine healthy.
>> Jolene (22:39):
It's margarine. Like, and I'm like, I get
it. And I'm one. I, when I work with
people, and I don't know if you're dairy free,
don't start replacing cheeses and butters
if you have it, because it's not
now, milk or soy
milk, like, depending on the processing of
(23:00):
that. That's different. Like, because some people do. You need a
little bit of something in your coffee. But, you know, I
always say coconut milk and people freak out. They're like, it's got so much fat. And
I'm like, it's probably the closest
thing to a natural, unprocessed
anything than the rest. The rest all
need a lot of work to get there. I
(23:22):
hate coconut, so that's never going to end up in my
coffee.
>> Amy (23:26):
Some people really like it. I didn't like my
coffee either.
>> Jolene (23:30):
It's probably why. I've just never loved coconut. I'm one of
those weirdos. But, no, and it's the nuances. It's
like, how do you get around it? Like you said, there's all
this processed stuff that are now
even in the vegan world and the low
carb world. It's tricking them to think they're
eating better.
>> Amy (23:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
We're all prey and susceptible to marketing,
and we're all, we're all
susceptible to our bias overriding
our better judgment. Like, that's just being
human. And these companies
have insane marketing budgets
with, like,
(24:10):
behavior scientists who
totally know how to hook us and reel us
in. And, like, the odds are really
stacked against you. You
have to go out, like, mentally armed to the
teeth in a grocery store to get through without,
like, having your emotions hijacked and
coming home with the latest. Oh, gosh. What
(24:33):
was it? Someone sent me a picture earlier
this week of. Oh, it was, it
was peanut, butter
and jelly. Like
snack bars, but the jelly was
this shellac on the top of
peanut butter. Yeah. Like just
hideous, hideous snack
(24:55):
cake thing. but,
you know, someone out there is going to be in
the grocery store. They're either going to be hungry or they're having a
bad day. And you look at that
weird. It looks like a peanut butter jelly kit
Kat. okay. And
it's gonna trigger the
nostalgia. It's gonna. And it's gonna
(25:18):
end up in your cart, right? Oh, yeah. And for
shareholders, it's a short term win. Whatever that, you know, that
product's probably not gonna be around in five years. Just like lady
Gaga. Oreos are no longer on the shelf.
It was there for a brief minute. It was hilarious and
wrong.
>> Jolene (25:34):
Oh, no, I've seen, like, Barbie, like, what was it?
Was Barbie Waterloo or something? Like, of the sparkling
water. And I'm like, what flavor is
Barbie like?
>> Amy (25:46):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (25:47):
Like, it's just. And it was, it was something that would normally just be,
like, sparkling water. Nothing much in it. And I'm looking at it
like, why?
>> Amy (25:55):
Because some little girl is going to freak out,
get so excited and tester her mom
until her mom says, fine, sparkling
water.
>> Jolene (26:03):
At least it's sparkling water. Yeah,
but it's, it's, we're all
into, you know, following something,
trying to get us back a little bit to nuances, but following
something because it worked for,
okay, worked for you. So I'm going to do it just
like you.
>> Amy (26:22):
You're human. I'm human. Why not? Why would that
work?
>> Jolene (26:26):
Because we're not each other.
We don't even live in the same time zone.
>> Amy (26:31):
Like.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah,
that's. And it's, you know, it does make it.
I know how frustrated people get because rules
just make things so much easier and
so much simpler. And we all have so many other things
going on that if there could
(26:52):
just be some food rules to follow,
I would feel more confident, I would know what to
do. And if there
was, you know, a skilled professional guiding me,
then it would work. Right? And
not necessarily the body
is this gloriously,
(27:12):
insanely complex ecosystem that
is always changing and always adapting
and always shifting. One thing that I think gets lost,
too, with all the different dietary fads or things that
do work for people. And part of the reason why
I think that people who have been
dogmatically carnivore are starting to do, you
know, blasphemous things like adding honey into their diet
(27:35):
or fruit. you know, things
like, like Sarah Ballantyne making the shift away from
AIP. And for those who are still AIP
advocates, Mickey Trescott and those, the
others, they are adjusting
AIP based on new research, based on new
knowledge, based on now the 15 years or so of
clinical experience that people have had implementing these
(27:57):
diets to make it less rigid, not to get
rid of all the seed spices, not to make it
so restrictive, because that was, by and large,
unfounded when you took the research, the
theory, and applied it in real life. So
we're seeing shifts there as well.
And I think one thing that does get lost
(28:18):
when people find something and it works for
them is we forget that we
do live in this ever changing ecosystem of a body.
And the food that healed you
may not necessarily be the food that
sustains your health.
There is a difference between
(28:38):
a healing diet and a
healthy diet.
>> Jolene (28:43):
Absolutely. Thank you for saying that. Because
that is the biggest thing that I
see personally when I'm working with people or getting
them out of that headspace
because I went vegan or I went
paleo. I went keto and I felt so good and
it was healing and then I got stuck, so I
doubled down on it and I tripled down on it and I
(29:05):
ketoed harder and I vegan harder and I
didn't get any better. That's what, they didn't get any better.
And so it must be the diet. It
can't, it must be something wrong with me because it had to have worked.
Like, it's just our bodies are
changing and have different needs at different
times. Yeah, or I fell off and I went
back and it didn't work well because your body's not the same as
(29:27):
it was when you did it the first time.
>> Amy (29:30):
Yes. And particularly with these elimination diets
like low FODMAp and AIP and
carnivore, when you stay there too
long because it works, you feel good, you feel like, oh, I found the
thing that works for me. I can just, you know, set it and
forget it. Now, many of
these, well, firstly, low
FODMAP and AIP were never intended to be
(29:53):
lifestyle diets. They were intended to
be. And the, the
initial creators and advocates and
proponents of these plans will tell you this, they
were intended to be short term
dietary changes to provide
relief and to ascertain which
foods were problematic for you
(30:14):
through a reintroduction phase.
When you severely restrict multiple different
foods for such a long period of time, you
can end up with dietary deficiencies that
inhibit your body from healing, from reaching that
next level. And when your response is to
restrict further, what you actually double
down on is your illness and your inability to
(30:36):
heal.
>> Jolene (30:38):
Well, I often hear I went
carnivore and all my digestive and gut
issues healed.
>> Amy (30:44):
Yep.
>> Jolene (30:45):
And my thing is, no, you removed the offending
foods. Did you work on
healing your gut lining,
you know, diversifying your bacteria
and, and doing that aspect which you can do on a
carnivore diet. It does require supplementation, but, and
then reintroduce stuff and everyone looks
at me who's like, no, because if I reintroduce it, I'll get sick again.
>> Amy (31:09):
Then are you healed?
You know, really, what does healing mean
then?
>> Jolene (31:16):
I mean, an elimination diet is awesome to give
your whole body the break to then do the work. But
I think we've, as a society or
as, as these diets become influencer
pushed and there's nothing wrong with
influencers. I just want to put that out there. But they get pushed by people
who don't understand the full concept that they weren't
meant forever. They were meant
(31:38):
as a stepping stone, tend to do the healing work
behind it.
>> Amy (31:42):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (31:43):
and the healing work is the work that always gets
neglected, unfortunately.
>> Amy (31:49):
I mean, for many people, it's a multi year
process. It's messy, it's not cut and dry.
It's a lot of experimentation, it's a lot of.
And the healing process is
incremental.
it isn't linear by any stretch of the imagination,
(32:10):
and it isn't without setbacks. And sometimes you don't know why you have those
setbacks, and there is no way to know.
>> Jolene (32:14):
But.
>> Amy (32:18):
Our bodies are mysterious. As much as we like to think
we know so much about the human body.
Can I curse that?
>> Jolene (32:25):
Sure.
>> Amy (32:26):
Okay. We don't know shit
we don't particularly like. The science of
nutrition is less than 150 years old. We didn't
know that vitamins existed 150 years
ago. We still
largely have no idea
what the optimal amount of nutrients are
(32:47):
for human health. We know how to avoid
scurvy. We know how to avoid
rickets.
>> Jolene (32:54):
We do it this way. We're just even learning
how to prevent muscle deficiency.
And we've had an RDA forever. And everybody
thinks the RDA means recommended daily
allowance when with protein, it's the bare
minimum to prevent deficiencies. And people thought it was
the maximum. Like, yeah, ah, people still think it's a
(33:14):
maximum. And they're like, oh, well, this is the latest trend. I'm like,
no, this is actually the latest research. There's a
difference.
>> Amy (33:20):
Yes, yes, there is.
Yeah. Oh, the RDA.
>> Jolene (33:27):
I know that I didn't even, I, dove
into the RDA not too long ago and realized that there was
actually originally an RDA, even on carbohydrates. But
nobody talks about it. It's something like 150
to 200 grams.
>> Amy (33:40):
Yeah, yeah. And we're
overshooting that quite well. We, we can't really talk about
that because all of our cheap subsidized
food will, will need to be somewhat curtailed. And
you know, that, that makes our GDP look, less
exciting than last year. Not allowed. Not
allowed.
>> Jolene (33:58):
You know, it's, it's the nuances
of that, like diet. Okay, let's
go back to like you just said, that
we're learning more stuff. Like the AIP, they've learned from
clinical research in their clinics.
Like, not everything is going to be a scientific
published paper. I just won't put that out there. But
(34:18):
it's realistic from
some of these health professionals
implementing it. We're getting data out of
that, and that shouldn't just be thrown away because
you have people who say, well, it's not a randomized controlled trial, so it
doesn't, it's meaningless. I won't mention names,
but.
>> Amy (34:39):
You.
>> Jolene (34:40):
Know, but it, it is meaningful.
If you've seen 1000, 2000
people and you can
curtail something based on the results of
that, that's to me as valid as a
randomized controlled trial that was done only on healthy
people.
>> Amy (34:57):
Yes, yes. And I mean, going to
AIP specifically, it was,
you know, it was those early
individuals. Rob Wolf, Sarah
Ballantyne. I know there's an argument about who actually started
AIP, but that's not my. I have
zero interest in that.
>> Jolene (35:15):
Yeah.
>> Amy (35:15):
those early, those
early influencers who looked at the research
and said, well, this appears to be flammatory, this appears to be flammatory.
Let's cut all these things out. Then it became
popular and it was this
underground movement, but people started seeing
results after ten years of this.
Someone in the research field
(35:38):
said, hey, this is an interesting signal we're
seeing. Let's see if the research backs it up.
And then there was clinical research done which did in
fact validate that autoimmune paleo can be
helpful for bowel disorders,
and autoimmunity. So
you can't wait. Sometimes the
(35:58):
clinical research comes from the
evidence that people see in private practice, that
people see in multiple areas, multiple different areas of the
world, and that creates a signal that
then a researcher wants to explore
further. We can't expect
people locked in a lab asking
(36:18):
questions to know all the questions that need to be
asked. Sometimes it has to come from the people, it
has to come from these movements to get
enough momentum and enough popularity that then we can
take a look at research and negate or confirm it.
Same thing with acupuncture. Acupuncture
is backed by clinical research. So is,
(36:39):
eft, so is chiropractic. All
of these things were considered
witchcraft, nonsense,
you know, snake oil at some point
in time within the last hundred years.
>> Jolene (36:53):
Absolutely. No, it's true. And that's
where we like to take a step
back and kind of pack
science together with ancestral wisdom
and make them collide. Because
saying what your grandparents did, your great
grandparents did, oh, it was bad because
science said this new stuff is
(37:14):
better, but they lived
a lot healthier than we do.
That's what common sense has to come in as well, which,
you know, sometimes we forget all about common sense,
you know, you're telling me that this, that
we've eaten for thousands of years is bad, but this new
process thing in a lab is going to be healthier.
(37:34):
Like, you know, that goes back to the
saying, we're the only people smart enough to make our own food and stupid
enough to actually eat it.
>> Amy (37:42):
Oh, my gosh. I have not heard that, but that is
hilarious.
>> Jolene (37:46):
You know, it's one of those, we gotta think about it, and I
think there's a time and a place, like, you know, on a special occasion,
whatever you want to eat. But, you know, we're going
into scary territory
as a society, and our health is just
declining more and more and more. The more we try
to manipulate the
(38:07):
food we're eating.
>> Amy (38:08):
Yeah, Soylent green isn't turning out so well.
>> Jolene (38:12):
I ain't eating you.
>> Amy (38:13):
Sorry.
>> Jolene (38:18):
Yeah, no, it's not. It's crazy, but,
yeah, it's the little things like that.
So when. When you work with people, or because
you've worked with people over the years, how do you explain to
him, explain to them in general that
there's this. This is
the guidelines,
(38:38):
but you have something over here that we need
to tweak this or tweak that.
Like, how do
we, as practitioners. I mean, maybe that's.
Maybe this is more for me. How do we, as practitioners, open
people's eyes that they do need to tweak it
specifically for themselves to get the
most out of whatever they're doing, and if it's not
(39:01):
working, it's okay. Move on to something
else.
>> Amy (39:04):
Yeah. Yeah. you know, when I'm
having that conversation, I always like to remind the person
that whoever created those
rules didn't know them
and wasn't thinking about this specific person.
Right. They were looking. Either they were looking at
research, which is all theoretical,
or they are advocating what
(39:26):
worked for them and they are not. You
and
I work a lot with digestive dysfunction. and so low
fodmap comes up more frequently
than autoimmune. paleo for me, at this point in time
with low fodmap, I explain to them,
okay, so the idea is there are
(39:47):
fibers which are fermentable, and the gut, and this is
what creates the symptoms. Not everybody
is sensitive to all of these different kinds of
fibers. Not everyone is sensitive to
all of the foods within a certain category of
fermentable fibers, like the f or the o or the p
or whatever. Right. And so
when we start, you know, for
(40:10):
two, up to four weeks, we're going
to take out as many of these as we
can. If you already
know within
this group that there are some items which
for sure do not aggravate your symptoms. We
can. And there are foods you love.
(40:30):
Let's keep them in and double check
that. Right. But
we'll start with the most
extensive elimination, and then we are not going to stay
there long, because, one, it's not
necessary, and two, the longer you stay there, the more likely
you are to get stuck, because the gut microbiome can
(40:51):
change and prohibit you from eating
these foods. But very, very,
very rarely do I just do a low FODMAp diet without other
interventions to support the gut.
and then we start bringing things in, and we start
trying, and
I remind them, your personalized low
(41:13):
FODMAp diet, whatever ends up
working for you long term is not going to be like the person I
spoke to yesterday. It's tailored
to you. And that's why, I think, also
why people come to see
practitioners like you and I, because they want something that
works for them.
>> Jolene (41:32):
Yeah. And they're tired of trying
everything in, it not working.
>> Amy (41:37):
Exactly. And if you want something that
works for you, you have to
be willing to throw away the rulebook
that said, you can't eat this, you can't eat that. Only eat
this, because any book that's been
published, anybody who's talking to a
camera on Instagram M. That book
is not written specifically for you. That
(41:59):
person is not. That person is speaking to a camera.
They're not speaking directly to you. They
don't know you. They cannot know
what is best for you. When someone finds out what
I do and they say, oh, you know, I've got anemia, what I.
What should I do? Or, oh, I've got this, what should I do? I'm like, I
don't know. I don't know you well enough to make any kind of
(42:20):
advice. I would need to know
what your dietary status is, how your
absorption is. You know, if we're discussing anemia,
why do you have anemia? Do you have gut
bleeding? Like, we can't just. It's not as simple
as, well, try liver.
>> Jolene (42:38):
You know, and it's. It's crazy that you say that, because it's true. And
that's what they say. Someone says, I have x, and I was like, well, then you
have to do this. But what's causing
x?
>> Amy (42:48):
Right, right.
>> Jolene (42:49):
You know, there's certain things that it could be a
multiple. Multiple,
Outside influences that are affecting x that we need to get
to. you know, and that's why some people.
I don't. I think that if you've tried every diet,
and this is for the people out there. If you tried every diet and
it didn't work and it should have worked, maybe you do need
(43:10):
somebody who can figure out what's going on, because our medical
system doesn't dive that deep where,
you know, certain practitioners have
tools that will dig deeper.
>> Amy (43:22):
Yes.
>> Jolene (43:22):
And try to at least find that root cause.
>> Amy (43:26):
so many times I have had people
in my office and they've been like,
I tried this and it didn't work.
Everybody lost weight but me.
or, you know, everything I do, I'm trying to lose weight
and it's not working. I don't know why. And it turns
out that whatever dietary plan they're on, that they
picked up from a book or they picked up from whatever
(43:48):
contains a food that they have a sensitivity to
and the resultant inflammation and aggravation
that's happening, the immune response that's happening from the body is
inhibiting them from losing weight. And then
as soon as you transition that food out of their diet,
like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, the weight starts to come off.
>> Jolene (44:06):
You know, it's like, it's especially big in, like, grain
free, because then they all of a sudden go to almond flour.
Well, you might not have had any problems having a
handful of almonds every few days. You're
eating way more than that when you start turning it into
a flower. So it reacts in your body
completely differently all of a sudden. Because it's in the
abundance.
>> Amy (44:26):
Yes, yes. Our ancestors did not
eat all of the almonds on the tree all at
once.
>> Jolene (44:35):
You know, I mean, we all like a good baked good every now and
then, but you have to be realistic with
what you're doing. Like, I have, I
don't know, coconut flour, because we'll eat a whole
coconut. It's probably not as condensed
as almond flour.
>> Amy (44:52):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (44:53):
or any nut flour, for that matter. You know,
it's just we've got to look at the. And also
you were meant to have, like, a little bit. So if you bake something, have
a little bit. I, always tell people it's like, it's all in the
dose. The poison's in the dose. You know, they'll
talk about all the talk about the different sweeteners and
stuff, and it's like, yeah, the poison truly isn't the dose, but
(45:13):
are you having one every
six months? Are you having five a day?
>> Amy (45:19):
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all
those, you know, all those little, whatever
approved treats that, the industry creates
for us to satisfy our cravings
also keeps us attached to the cravings. It
keeps the craving alive. And if cravings
are something that you struggle with and
(45:39):
emotional eating is something you struggle with,
the dietary, approved
substitute will not help you break free from
that.
It's really important to find non
food substitutes wherever possible
to really have a broad
diversity of coping skills and a
(46:01):
broad diversity of ways to reward and treat
yourself. It's not to say that
it's bad or wrong to use food as
a celebration, as a treat, as a comfort,
because, I mean, that's, I think,
denying your humanity.
You know, for as long as we have
been, we have celebrated
(46:23):
over a good meal because it meant that we got to live
another day.
You cannot divorce celebration
and reward from food.
However, we never want to put all
our eggs in one basket. Right. We want to have a
diverse set of coping skills available.
Because if, you know, if food is your
only resource to turn
(46:46):
to for emotions,
it will be very, very difficult to maintain your health
over the years. We just do
not have an environment
that permits that to happen.
>> Jolene (47:00):
Absolutely. It is.
We have gone to food too
much for our, coping mechanisms
rather than sitting in our feelings,
even, which is a big one. Like, you know, we got to
remember we're all one person,
so our feelings affect our health as
(47:20):
well, our emotions. And learning how
to deal with them outside of food, that's already
putting you at a disadvantage because you're
eating junk food. We need to learn that maybe
it's, you know, going outside sometimes it's just
being. It's okay to not feel okay
sometimes.
>> Amy (47:38):
Yeah, that's something too. I think we've forgotten. Right?
Like, there's this.
There's this idea that we shouldn't ever be
unhappy. That life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness somehow got morphed into
life, liberty, and the right to be happy all of the
time. And if you're going to be
(47:59):
alive for any length of time, like, that's just.
That's not. It's not a thing. It
can't happen. Life is in. Life is
chaotic.
>> Jolene (48:08):
It is chaos, it's crazy, it's chaotic,
and it's okay to feel it. Like. And I think
that when we get so separated is when we create the
problems.
>> Amy (48:17):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (48:17):
Get separated from those feelings.
We're looking to mask them, hide them. do what?
But sometimes if we just live in them, they
last a few moments and then they're gone.
>> Amy (48:29):
Yeah. The only way out is through.
>> Jolene (48:31):
And that's the same thing with our food, is the only way out is
through is you're not going to make those changes unless you
make those changes and move forward through it
and be okay with changing.
It's not one way, and that's a big one.
for me to teach everybody is that there is no one right
way. It's whatever's working for you now.
(48:55):
That's all it is, so.
Well, thank you, Amy. This has been a fabulous,
fabulous conversation. I appreciate
your time. I know I enjoyed it. I can't wait. I
have a feeling we'll be doing this again because
I need some. Some good experts on that. I can
bounce stuff off. And, it's as
(49:16):
much for me as others because we're all learning,
you know, and we all learn different ways. So I
appreciate you taking the time. And can you tell everybody
where people can find you?
>> Amy (49:28):
Oh, certainly. Certainly. if you enjoy
the sound of my voice, you can hear me
every week on blasphemous nutrition, which
is available on, nearly all of the podcast
apps as well as Apple. And
I am
also@vibrancenutrition.com
that's vibrance
(49:48):
nutrition.com.
that is the, website for my private practice.
And I am sort
of on Instagram at vibrancenutrition,
but not especially. I try and stay away
from social media because I value my mental health.
>> Jolene (50:07):
Exactly. And you know what, everybody tune into
her podcast. I will link everything in the show notes
because she was so gracious with her time today. And you're going to want to
check out her podcast because it's been fabulous. I've been listening
to it and binging it. but thank you so much for
taking the time, and I will see you all
later.
>> Amy (50:25):
Bye bye.
>> Jolene (50:28):
Thanks for listening in today. I hope you got some nuggets to take
on your health journey. Remember, this podcast is for
educational and entertainment purposes. No medical
advice is being given. By listening to this podcast, you agree to
the full disclaimer, which is linked in the show notes.
If you found this podcast helpful, could you take 30 seconds
and leave a review? Your m feedback means the world to me,
(50:48):
and it helps others discover my show. Once
again, thank you for being part of my community. Until next
time, have a blessed day.
So I recently sat down with my
friend Amy Gallo. She is a functional
nutritionist with over 20
years experience working in
the nutrition field, plus 30 years
of studying nutrition. We originally
sat down to talk just about nuances in the nutrition
(00:21):
field and it just morphed into this
wonderful conversation that you're really just not going to
want to miss. So tune in.
Are you ready to forget the fads, diet, dogma
and go beyond the calorie? You know, deep down,
there's gotta be a better way. Welcome to holistic
health made simple, where ancient wisdom and science
(00:41):
collide. I'm Jolene, your nutritional therapy
practitioner, and I'm here to empower you to
think outside the box and finally get healthy.
Together, we'll dive into the power of the gut metabolism
and your overall health. No more yo yo
dieting, no more quick fixes, and no more
confusing advice. Just simple, practical
and personalized steps that will help you reach your goals and
(01:04):
feel amazing. Are you ready to reclaim your
health? Grab some water and let's go.
Hey.
>> Amy (01:11):
Hey, everybody.
>> Jolene (01:12):
I am so excited to have my friend Amy here.
And today we are going to talk all about
diet and nuances and why
it's so important to not follow the
rules, basically. and how important those
nuances is. But before we get into it, I would
love Amy to tell us a little bit about
herself and how she does what she does. Like how
(01:35):
she got into it and what she does.
Welcome, Amy.
>> Amy (01:39):
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. I'm excited
for this conversation.
I started studying nutrition when I was about twelve years
old and I was one
of those kids in the
nineties who became a radical
vegetarian animal rights activist.
And, I had some family members that were
(02:01):
concerned about me eliminating
meat from my diet. When I decided to go vegetarian,
they specifically were concerned about my protein intake and my
iron and, you know, my, at that point I was
13 and my 13 year old logic
was, well, there's millions of people in India
who are vegetarian and they're fine, so this
has to be fine. So I went to the local life and I looked
(02:24):
up vegetarian nutrition books
and fell into this rabbit hole
of discovery that what we eat actually
has an impact on our health.
And this was never a conversation that occurred in my
household. Food is food. Food is what you eat when
you're hungry. Some people like certain foods, some people don't like
certain foods, and that was kind of the extent of it.
(02:46):
So to understand
that what we put on our
plate has an impact on the
quality and the quantity of our
lifespan completely
blew my mind at, 13 years old.
And so I started
devouring everything I could about nutrition,
(03:08):
vegetarian nutrition specifically, because that was my
bias and I was convinced that was the key to saving
the world. And by the time I was 15,
I decided that I wanted to pursue this as a
career. And I've been really, really
lucky. I'm, one of the few people I know
who went through college
pursuing their passion, emerged from
(03:30):
it, still passionate about that topic,
and got to create a career doing
so. and so I've studied
nutrition for 30 years now. I've been in
practice, as a health
coach before, that was a word, because
I decided I did not want to become a registered
dietitian. I did not want to work in the hospital
(03:51):
system. And when I emerged
from undergrad and chose
not to pursue the registered dietetics tract,
I was basically told there's, you know, no one's going to
respect you. You're never going to get a job anywhere.
That's what the school told me, my advisors,
except for one teacher who said,
(04:11):
you have zero scope of practice, so
don't be stupid and don't get yourself in
trouble. But you have no scope of
practice, so there's no rules for you.
>> Jolene (04:23):
Wow. Nowadays we have tons of scope of
practice all of a sudden. Well, I mean,
yeah, to an extent.
>> Amy (04:30):
To an extent. Yeah, at that, you know, but, but at that point you
were either a registered dietitian or you were nothing.
And, and my running coach
was looking, he was like, hey, do you want to
coach? Do you want to do nutrition work with my runners when
you finish school? And I was like, absolutely, that would be great. So
I was able to start my practice immediately after receiving
(04:50):
my undergrad and I called myself a nutrition
coach because again, there were no labels for us at
that point in time. And, I've been in
practice ever since. After about,
let's see, 14 years,
I finish. After about ten years,
I went back and got my master's degree.
(05:11):
And so now I have two degrees in nutrition
and I'm, you know, I've got street cred as far as
licensure goes in a couple of states.
But, yeah, I still love
the topic, I'm still totally passionate about it, and
I see clients privately and I also have a podcast called
blasphemous nutrition where I discuss
nuance on a regular basis and
(05:34):
get, a little feisty about it.
>> Jolene (05:37):
Oh yeah.
Well, I am excited to have you here and I love your story.
Because, yeah, I get it. Most, a lot of us
in this space had some sort of health
crisis that or something
happened that developed the passion. I
was one of those that was always like, yeah,
I went into fashion, but I had a nutrition
(05:58):
knowledge from that because of my
undergraduate, for whatever reason, the college I
went to, my undergrad was together with fashion. So I had to take
enough of those to actually get my, degree because
you know how that all works. So I'm like, okay. But
you know, so I just, I find it interesting that you
just kept going and going, and it's like some of us just
always had it sprinkled in, or some people knew nothing at
(06:20):
all. And that's where
the nuances are important,
because there's people in,
good, I don't like to say it's good or bad, but there are certain
people who found or had a health crisis and
found a way that got them out of that health crisis.
And they swear
(06:41):
that that's the only way to live.
>> Amy (06:44):
Right.
>> Jolene (06:44):
It's the only, like, I mean, I started
this last set because this is my third time
down this health journey path. So the last time I started
on a ketogenic diet. And
at first I was like, okay, this makes sense.
But I understood some of the nuances
shortly thereafter. Within a few months. At the
(07:04):
beginning, I did not understand any of it. But
then there was
all these dogmatic zealots,
and I still think a
ketogenic diet can be a great therapeutic approach, and some
people need it and some people don't. But it's not the end
all, be all. But I'm not here
(07:25):
to bash, you know, we're not here to bash the ketogenic diet. It's about
the nuances that people don't let in. You've
got influencers now changing their mind. I mean,
yes, so, which is exciting.
>> Amy (07:37):
To see that people can change their mind.
That gives me hope. That gives me hope that people are
willing to change their perspective or adjust their
perspective over time. And because I've
been kind of entrenched in this field
for so long, I've seen so
many things, like what we're currently
(07:58):
emerging from now is really
the third iteration of
low carb versus vegetarian. The first
time this happened, to my knowledge, the first time this happened
was in the late sixties, early
seventies. We had, you know, this
environmental vegetarian movement that emerged from
hippie culture. And in the early seventies was
(08:21):
the first time that Robert Adkins published a
book on low carb diets.
And so there was that friction then, and it went
away and we had, you
know, nasty ass, low carb, low, sorry,
low, low fat
snack wells. Right. And in the late nineties,
(08:43):
in the mid to late nineties again, we had this resurgence
of vegetarianism, animal
rights advocacy, coinciding
with the republication of Adkins
book, the Atkins Diet Revolution.
And so the nineties early two thousands was, again,
this friction, this repeat of what we saw in the
seventies. That was when I came into the field,
(09:05):
and I did not realize that what I
was living through was recycling of the
1970s until about ten years ago,
when it showed up for a third time.
And it's really interesting
because these
food culture wars
(09:25):
are very closely tied
with fashion. Now that you mention it.
>> Jolene (09:31):
they are.
>> Amy (09:33):
When Keto came up with this resurgence
of what we're now calling plant based living, which
incidentally, has many of the same arguments
that were being thrown at us in the nineties,
the vintage sort of
long, flowy granny dresses, doc
martens, collared necklaces
(09:53):
were in fashion, as they have been
in fashion recently, as they were in
fashion, at least the flowy
floral dresses in the 1970s.
So there's an element with
our pop culture as it relates to
nutrition, very much following the
(10:13):
once a generation trends of
fashion and recycling
movies from our childhood, all of that stuff. It's
just this
big churning of regurgitation
that I'm seeing over and over again.
And if I'm blessed to live long enough,
in 20 or 30 years, we.
>> Jolene (10:34):
Will see it again. We will see it again.
And I didn't realize it because we have recycled it over and
over and over again. And, it's,
yeah, it's amazing how the trends
recycle. And I'm sure that some of
it has recycled prior.
Yeah, you know, it's just we didn't as,
it wasn't as pronounced. And I think their cycles get
(10:57):
closer and closer. So you might not have to wait very long to see it
all over again.
>> Amy (11:01):
I hope I get to wait long because I'm already bored of it
the second time around.
>> Jolene (11:05):
So, like, rid of all those clothes
and I gotta start all over
again.
But then the nuances, like, even, with
what we call plant based now, people
will say they're plant based, but when we look at
it, there's nuances
even within that.
>> Amy (11:24):
Right, right there is room right
now, yes. For what we would have called
flexitarian or semi vegetarian in the
nineties, where, you know, a plant based
diet isn't as,
it's, not as dogmatic as it was before. About
avoiding all animal products or
avoiding all meat and seafood. I
(11:47):
think some of that this time around may be
in part because we've. We did get so
extreme in the eighties and nineties with pushing fat as low
as it could possibly go with pushing
ideal body type. You know, the whole
Kate moss heroin chic nonsense,
right. That we went so extreme that people
(12:07):
don't have a palette now for that level
of dogma. with perhaps
regards to plant based, environmental based
eating, specifically. Specifically. I mean, I definitely see
extreme dogma peppered in the field
in many ways. But as far as anything that
is going to break through into the mainstream, as plant
(12:27):
based living has done, I don't
think by and large, many of
us are willing to swallow that bitter
pill again.
>> Jolene (12:37):
Well, that's a good thing because I think the whole, when we
pushed the fat really low, it made a lot of people sick and.
>> Amy (12:43):
Absolutely.
>> Jolene (12:44):
And the
whole culture of diets,
which I don't think either one of us love.
I like diet in the term of, it's the way you
eat. It's what you eat, not in the form
of what I'm like.
Bugs me. When people are like, their identity is tied
to the way they eat. you
(13:07):
are more of a person than
that. I get it. You like to eat vegan, or you're a
keto or palette, but that's not your identity.
That's just food on a plate.
>> Amy (13:17):
For some people, it is their identity, though, particularly for
those, I think, who had that significant transformation.
It is like, we
also have this entanglement in at least
american culture of our
food and what we eat and what we choose to
eat. Having almost a
(13:37):
religious
aroma to a religious. Like there's this. Just this
subtle underpinning. Underpinning of
religiosity. And it
doesn't surprise me at all that people will identify, like,
say, I am keto and or I am paleo
or what have you, and strongly identify that with
(13:58):
that as though it
were a religious belief,
particularly if they have had that health transformation
from doing that. Right. It's like being born again. Yeah.
You are a walking testimony of how
this works. And you want to spread the good word
and you want others to be reborn as you
(14:19):
have been reborn. And
I've kind of come to this hypothesis
as I've been watching things,
over the last ten years, particularly reach kind of a
fever pitch with the splintering
and turning, everything into an identity.
Identifying yourself by your illness, by your diet, by
(14:40):
your politics. Right. All of that that we're doing.
It seems that in the. It seems that there is
almost a deeply wired
need for humans
to have this greater sense of meaning.
And in the absence of what we
collectively used to have, you know, our
(15:02):
church and, you know, the US is
largely, in many places, a secular culture
now. I almost wonder
if, in the
absence of that structure, that
people are seeking it elsewhere
and becoming drawn
into Instagram gurus
(15:24):
as their
leaders. It's a weird.
>> Jolene (15:29):
They're pastor, their priest.
>> Amy (15:32):
Right. They're food
popes. just because it
has so much of that, it has
so many similar themes. There's the
fervor, there's the conviction, there's the dogma.
And if there is someone who is in the
fold who breaks away, who changes
their opinion. Sarah Ballantyne is a
(15:54):
great example, with paleo
autoimmune paleo. And in the last couple of years,
she's really pulled away from that and has been critical
of some of the things that she helped
popularize, and her community
ripped her apart for it. And again,
it's very similar to how, in
a tight knit
(16:15):
community, if you don't follow the
rules of the sect, you are cast
away. Yeah. And, you know, this goes, of
course, beyond organized religion. This is something very fundamental
to human.
>> Jolene (16:27):
Tribal behavior, our m
tribal instinct. And, I noticed that with Sarah
Ballantyne was a big one. yeah, I noticed the
change. I was gone in the middle.
she was very dogmatic. But speaking of
dogmatic, she was very dogmatic about a lot of things, and so I had
trouble. So I actually, she was
(16:48):
a person that had a great wealth of knowledge,
but when she got really dogmatic in her
thinking, I couldn't take it, because it's like, there's.
Let's go back to the nuances. There's.
That one way isn't the only
way.
>> Amy (17:03):
Right?
>> Jolene (17:04):
Like, even if you're vegan,
there's lots of ways to be vegan. And I keep bringing that
up because I like to use something on the outlier, like,
there's lots of ways to be vegan. There's lots of ways to be keto.
There's lots of ways to be paleo mediterranean.
But when you get into that
fold, and that's where I see the nuances
go out the window, even with their tribal leaders,
(17:27):
is that, well, here are the rules. You got to follow the rules or you're not
it, right? Like, how many times have you
heard something, somebody say something? Well, that's not
keto. And. And. And it's
corn oil. And now, I'm not a big proponent of corn oil,
but technically, that's
not. I mean, technically, that's not going to affect you getting
into ketosis or not. Is it healthy for you? That's a
(17:50):
whole other story.
>> Amy (17:51):
Like, yeah, yeah, I mean, if it's. Yes, yes,
exactly.
>> Jolene (17:54):
You know, there's two parts to this. There's the health part,
you know, or vegan. It's like the plant
based crap versus
fruits, vegetables, nuts and beans. Like,
you know, when you did it, there wasn't all this processed
food, and people would go, how did you do it? It's
like, well, because you ate real food.
>> Amy (18:16):
Like, yeah, I mean, yeah. when I started,
there was. There was. There was Morningstar farms. That
was it. Ah, yeah.
You know, Morningstar farms had been around since the seventies,
and I was. I had just started. I was probably
three years in. I was vegetarian for 13 years.
I tried so hard to be vegan, and after about three months,
my body would just need cheese or eggs. And so I
(18:37):
was never, you know, quote, a good vegan.
And this was badge of shame that I very
quietly carried. But,
Boca burgers came onto the scene, soy milk
came onto the scene during that time, and I
was eating a great deal of processed soy,
which really ended up messing me up so
(18:58):
bad. But this is the thing that we see,
too, with all of these food fads, is when they initially start
off, because they eliminate a
lot of the commonly
consumed processed foods.
Initially, when people would go keto or
start the Atkins diet in the seventies especially,
(19:18):
they were effectively eating an
unprocessed diet. And
so they were getting a lot of nutrients
and feeling better because there were things that had been taken
out and replaced with more wholesome
foods. What I saw in the nineties
and early two thousands, I was working in a health food
store at the time, and people
(19:40):
initially would come in and they're on this,
Atkins diet and they're feeling great, and they've lost 40,
50, 60, 70 pounds. And, oh, my gosh, this is
amazing. And then a couple years later, Adkins
started making their Adkins bars. And, there
was the low carb spaghetti made with soy flour
that started coming out. And the more the
industry responds to the demand and
(20:02):
creates the processed foods that people
miss, but
use it with.
How do I want to say this? You'll need to edit this.
As the industry begins to respond to the demand,
they create hyper processed foods that fit the
(20:24):
label of Atkins friendly, low carb
friendly vegan using
super processed ingredients.
So the macros look right. The
ingredients are within the
rules. Yet these are hyper
palatable, hyper processed foods. And so
people who jumped on the Atkins bandwagon
(20:45):
five, six years later, after they saw their friends
and their family and all these people having great success at it,
who had access to these hyper processed, Atkins
friendly foods, they would lose maybe
1520 pounds. And that's it. And then they'd
swallow. Same, thing happened this time around. There
was paleo. Paleo by
definition, unprocessed
(21:07):
diet. Now, 15 years later, we
got paleo snack cakes, paleo this, paleo that,
right? And paleo then became keto. And
then Keto became the invitation to create all of
these, you know, sugar, alcohol,
sweetened keto. Crazy nonsense
stuff.
>> Jolene (21:25):
It's crazy. And for me,
I'm always upfront is I never tolerated
erythritol. And if you were a true
keto back, you know, seven, eight years ago,
you couldn't have the other sugar alcohols. It was
erythritol. Well, I couldn't tolerate it. So
that kicked all the processed junk food out.
So I really got healthy by eating whole
(21:48):
foods because that's all that was left. That was all that
was. You can't even bake yourself something
without the erythritol. Without the erythritol, because monk
fruit is so strong.
Everyone's like, well, just, you're taking out a dry ingredient. So if
you're trying to bake a cookie or cake or something, you can't take
out a cup of a dry ingredient. Like
(22:09):
it just doesn't work.
>> Amy (22:10):
Exactly.
>> Jolene (22:11):
So you're stuck with pretty much whole foods. And I
think, you know, back in the day when
there wasn't, like even the vegan, when you started,
there wasn't a lot of processed food, so people ate, more
real foods. And I had a conversation recently with a
family member, oh, look at this plant based butter. And I looked at her
go, that's nothing more than margarine.
(22:32):
And she's looking at me like, like I'm nuts. And I'm like, that's nothing
plant based.
>> Amy (22:35):
What do you mean? It's margarine healthy.
>> Jolene (22:39):
It's margarine. Like, and I'm like, I get
it. And I'm one. I, when I work with
people, and I don't know if you're dairy free,
don't start replacing cheeses and butters
if you have it, because it's not
now, milk or soy
milk, like, depending on the processing of
(23:00):
that. That's different. Like, because some people do. You need a
little bit of something in your coffee. But, you know, I
always say coconut milk and people freak out. They're like, it's got so much fat. And
I'm like, it's probably the closest
thing to a natural, unprocessed
anything than the rest. The rest all
need a lot of work to get there. I
(23:22):
hate coconut, so that's never going to end up in my
coffee.
>> Amy (23:26):
Some people really like it. I didn't like my
coffee either.
>> Jolene (23:30):
It's probably why. I've just never loved coconut. I'm one of
those weirdos. But, no, and it's the nuances. It's
like, how do you get around it? Like you said, there's all
this processed stuff that are now
even in the vegan world and the low
carb world. It's tricking them to think they're
eating better.
>> Amy (23:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
We're all prey and susceptible to marketing,
and we're all, we're all
susceptible to our bias overriding
our better judgment. Like, that's just being
human. And these companies
have insane marketing budgets
with, like,
(24:10):
behavior scientists who
totally know how to hook us and reel us
in. And, like, the odds are really
stacked against you. You
have to go out, like, mentally armed to the
teeth in a grocery store to get through without,
like, having your emotions hijacked and
coming home with the latest. Oh, gosh. What
(24:33):
was it? Someone sent me a picture earlier
this week of. Oh, it was, it
was peanut, butter
and jelly. Like
snack bars, but the jelly was
this shellac on the top of
peanut butter. Yeah. Like just
hideous, hideous snack
(24:55):
cake thing. but,
you know, someone out there is going to be in
the grocery store. They're either going to be hungry or they're having a
bad day. And you look at that
weird. It looks like a peanut butter jelly kit
Kat. okay. And
it's gonna trigger the
nostalgia. It's gonna. And it's gonna
(25:18):
end up in your cart, right? Oh, yeah. And for
shareholders, it's a short term win. Whatever that, you know, that
product's probably not gonna be around in five years. Just like lady
Gaga. Oreos are no longer on the shelf.
It was there for a brief minute. It was hilarious and
wrong.
>> Jolene (25:34):
Oh, no, I've seen, like, Barbie, like, what was it?
Was Barbie Waterloo or something? Like, of the sparkling
water. And I'm like, what flavor is
Barbie like?
>> Amy (25:46):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (25:47):
Like, it's just. And it was, it was something that would normally just be,
like, sparkling water. Nothing much in it. And I'm looking at it
like, why?
>> Amy (25:55):
Because some little girl is going to freak out,
get so excited and tester her mom
until her mom says, fine, sparkling
water.
>> Jolene (26:03):
At least it's sparkling water. Yeah,
but it's, it's, we're all
into, you know, following something,
trying to get us back a little bit to nuances, but following
something because it worked for,
okay, worked for you. So I'm going to do it just
like you.
>> Amy (26:22):
You're human. I'm human. Why not? Why would that
work?
>> Jolene (26:26):
Because we're not each other.
We don't even live in the same time zone.
>> Amy (26:31):
Like.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah,
that's. And it's, you know, it does make it.
I know how frustrated people get because rules
just make things so much easier and
so much simpler. And we all have so many other things
going on that if there could
(26:52):
just be some food rules to follow,
I would feel more confident, I would know what to
do. And if there
was, you know, a skilled professional guiding me,
then it would work. Right? And
not necessarily the body
is this gloriously,
(27:12):
insanely complex ecosystem that
is always changing and always adapting
and always shifting. One thing that I think gets lost,
too, with all the different dietary fads or things that
do work for people. And part of the reason why
I think that people who have been
dogmatically carnivore are starting to do, you
know, blasphemous things like adding honey into their diet
(27:35):
or fruit. you know, things
like, like Sarah Ballantyne making the shift away from
AIP. And for those who are still AIP
advocates, Mickey Trescott and those, the
others, they are adjusting
AIP based on new research, based on new
knowledge, based on now the 15 years or so of
clinical experience that people have had implementing these
(27:57):
diets to make it less rigid, not to get
rid of all the seed spices, not to make it
so restrictive, because that was, by and large,
unfounded when you took the research, the
theory, and applied it in real life. So
we're seeing shifts there as well.
And I think one thing that does get lost
(28:18):
when people find something and it works for
them is we forget that we
do live in this ever changing ecosystem of a body.
And the food that healed you
may not necessarily be the food that
sustains your health.
There is a difference between
(28:38):
a healing diet and a
healthy diet.
>> Jolene (28:43):
Absolutely. Thank you for saying that. Because
that is the biggest thing that I
see personally when I'm working with people or getting
them out of that headspace
because I went vegan or I went
paleo. I went keto and I felt so good and
it was healing and then I got stuck, so I
doubled down on it and I tripled down on it and I
(29:05):
ketoed harder and I vegan harder and I
didn't get any better. That's what, they didn't get any better.
And so it must be the diet. It
can't, it must be something wrong with me because it had to have worked.
Like, it's just our bodies are
changing and have different needs at different
times. Yeah, or I fell off and I went
back and it didn't work well because your body's not the same as
(29:27):
it was when you did it the first time.
>> Amy (29:30):
Yes. And particularly with these elimination diets
like low FODMAp and AIP and
carnivore, when you stay there too
long because it works, you feel good, you feel like, oh, I found the
thing that works for me. I can just, you know, set it and
forget it. Now, many of
these, well, firstly, low
FODMAP and AIP were never intended to be
(29:53):
lifestyle diets. They were intended to
be. And the, the
initial creators and advocates and
proponents of these plans will tell you this, they
were intended to be short term
dietary changes to provide
relief and to ascertain which
foods were problematic for you
(30:14):
through a reintroduction phase.
When you severely restrict multiple different
foods for such a long period of time, you
can end up with dietary deficiencies that
inhibit your body from healing, from reaching that
next level. And when your response is to
restrict further, what you actually double
down on is your illness and your inability to
(30:36):
heal.
>> Jolene (30:38):
Well, I often hear I went
carnivore and all my digestive and gut
issues healed.
>> Amy (30:44):
Yep.
>> Jolene (30:45):
And my thing is, no, you removed the offending
foods. Did you work on
healing your gut lining,
you know, diversifying your bacteria
and, and doing that aspect which you can do on a
carnivore diet. It does require supplementation, but, and
then reintroduce stuff and everyone looks
at me who's like, no, because if I reintroduce it, I'll get sick again.
>> Amy (31:09):
Then are you healed?
You know, really, what does healing mean
then?
>> Jolene (31:16):
I mean, an elimination diet is awesome to give
your whole body the break to then do the work. But
I think we've, as a society or
as, as these diets become influencer
pushed and there's nothing wrong with
influencers. I just want to put that out there. But they get pushed by people
who don't understand the full concept that they weren't
meant forever. They were meant
(31:38):
as a stepping stone, tend to do the healing work
behind it.
>> Amy (31:42):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (31:43):
and the healing work is the work that always gets
neglected, unfortunately.
>> Amy (31:49):
I mean, for many people, it's a multi year
process. It's messy, it's not cut and dry.
It's a lot of experimentation, it's a lot of.
And the healing process is
incremental.
it isn't linear by any stretch of the imagination,
(32:10):
and it isn't without setbacks. And sometimes you don't know why you have those
setbacks, and there is no way to know.
>> Jolene (32:14):
But.
>> Amy (32:18):
Our bodies are mysterious. As much as we like to think
we know so much about the human body.
Can I curse that?
>> Jolene (32:25):
Sure.
>> Amy (32:26):
Okay. We don't know shit
we don't particularly like. The science of
nutrition is less than 150 years old. We didn't
know that vitamins existed 150 years
ago. We still
largely have no idea
what the optimal amount of nutrients are
(32:47):
for human health. We know how to avoid
scurvy. We know how to avoid
rickets.
>> Jolene (32:54):
We do it this way. We're just even learning
how to prevent muscle deficiency.
And we've had an RDA forever. And everybody
thinks the RDA means recommended daily
allowance when with protein, it's the bare
minimum to prevent deficiencies. And people thought it was
the maximum. Like, yeah, ah, people still think it's a
(33:14):
maximum. And they're like, oh, well, this is the latest trend. I'm like,
no, this is actually the latest research. There's a
difference.
>> Amy (33:20):
Yes, yes, there is.
Yeah. Oh, the RDA.
>> Jolene (33:27):
I know that I didn't even, I, dove
into the RDA not too long ago and realized that there was
actually originally an RDA, even on carbohydrates. But
nobody talks about it. It's something like 150
to 200 grams.
>> Amy (33:40):
Yeah, yeah. And we're
overshooting that quite well. We, we can't really talk about
that because all of our cheap subsidized
food will, will need to be somewhat curtailed. And
you know, that, that makes our GDP look, less
exciting than last year. Not allowed. Not
allowed.
>> Jolene (33:58):
You know, it's, it's the nuances
of that, like diet. Okay, let's
go back to like you just said, that
we're learning more stuff. Like the AIP, they've learned from
clinical research in their clinics.
Like, not everything is going to be a scientific
published paper. I just won't put that out there. But
(34:18):
it's realistic from
some of these health professionals
implementing it. We're getting data out of
that, and that shouldn't just be thrown away because
you have people who say, well, it's not a randomized controlled trial, so it
doesn't, it's meaningless. I won't mention names,
but.
>> Amy (34:39):
You.
>> Jolene (34:40):
Know, but it, it is meaningful.
If you've seen 1000, 2000
people and you can
curtail something based on the results of
that, that's to me as valid as a
randomized controlled trial that was done only on healthy
people.
>> Amy (34:57):
Yes, yes. And I mean, going to
AIP specifically, it was,
you know, it was those early
individuals. Rob Wolf, Sarah
Ballantyne. I know there's an argument about who actually started
AIP, but that's not my. I have
zero interest in that.
>> Jolene (35:15):
Yeah.
>> Amy (35:15):
those early, those
early influencers who looked at the research
and said, well, this appears to be flammatory, this appears to be flammatory.
Let's cut all these things out. Then it became
popular and it was this
underground movement, but people started seeing
results after ten years of this.
Someone in the research field
(35:38):
said, hey, this is an interesting signal we're
seeing. Let's see if the research backs it up.
And then there was clinical research done which did in
fact validate that autoimmune paleo can be
helpful for bowel disorders,
and autoimmunity. So
you can't wait. Sometimes the
(35:58):
clinical research comes from the
evidence that people see in private practice, that
people see in multiple areas, multiple different areas of the
world, and that creates a signal that
then a researcher wants to explore
further. We can't expect
people locked in a lab asking
(36:18):
questions to know all the questions that need to be
asked. Sometimes it has to come from the people, it
has to come from these movements to get
enough momentum and enough popularity that then we can
take a look at research and negate or confirm it.
Same thing with acupuncture. Acupuncture
is backed by clinical research. So is,
(36:39):
eft, so is chiropractic. All
of these things were considered
witchcraft, nonsense,
you know, snake oil at some point
in time within the last hundred years.
>> Jolene (36:53):
Absolutely. No, it's true. And that's
where we like to take a step
back and kind of pack
science together with ancestral wisdom
and make them collide. Because
saying what your grandparents did, your great
grandparents did, oh, it was bad because
science said this new stuff is
(37:14):
better, but they lived
a lot healthier than we do.
That's what common sense has to come in as well, which,
you know, sometimes we forget all about common sense,
you know, you're telling me that this, that
we've eaten for thousands of years is bad, but this new
process thing in a lab is going to be healthier.
(37:34):
Like, you know, that goes back to the
saying, we're the only people smart enough to make our own food and stupid
enough to actually eat it.
>> Amy (37:42):
Oh, my gosh. I have not heard that, but that is
hilarious.
>> Jolene (37:46):
You know, it's one of those, we gotta think about it, and I
think there's a time and a place, like, you know, on a special occasion,
whatever you want to eat. But, you know, we're going
into scary territory
as a society, and our health is just
declining more and more and more. The more we try
to manipulate the
(38:07):
food we're eating.
>> Amy (38:08):
Yeah, Soylent green isn't turning out so well.
>> Jolene (38:12):
I ain't eating you.
>> Amy (38:13):
Sorry.
>> Jolene (38:18):
Yeah, no, it's not. It's crazy, but,
yeah, it's the little things like that.
So when. When you work with people, or because
you've worked with people over the years, how do you explain to
him, explain to them in general that
there's this. This is
the guidelines,
(38:38):
but you have something over here that we need
to tweak this or tweak that.
Like, how do
we, as practitioners. I mean, maybe that's.
Maybe this is more for me. How do we, as practitioners, open
people's eyes that they do need to tweak it
specifically for themselves to get the
most out of whatever they're doing, and if it's not
(39:01):
working, it's okay. Move on to something
else.
>> Amy (39:04):
Yeah. Yeah. you know, when I'm
having that conversation, I always like to remind the person
that whoever created those
rules didn't know them
and wasn't thinking about this specific person.
Right. They were looking. Either they were looking at
research, which is all theoretical,
or they are advocating what
(39:26):
worked for them and they are not. You
and
I work a lot with digestive dysfunction. and so low
fodmap comes up more frequently
than autoimmune. paleo for me, at this point in time
with low fodmap, I explain to them,
okay, so the idea is there are
(39:47):
fibers which are fermentable, and the gut, and this is
what creates the symptoms. Not everybody
is sensitive to all of these different kinds of
fibers. Not everyone is sensitive to
all of the foods within a certain category of
fermentable fibers, like the f or the o or the p
or whatever. Right. And so
when we start, you know, for
(40:10):
two, up to four weeks, we're going
to take out as many of these as we
can. If you already
know within
this group that there are some items which
for sure do not aggravate your symptoms. We
can. And there are foods you love.
(40:30):
Let's keep them in and double check
that. Right. But
we'll start with the most
extensive elimination, and then we are not going to stay
there long, because, one, it's not
necessary, and two, the longer you stay there, the more likely
you are to get stuck, because the gut microbiome can
(40:51):
change and prohibit you from eating
these foods. But very, very,
very rarely do I just do a low FODMAp diet without other
interventions to support the gut.
and then we start bringing things in, and we start
trying, and
I remind them, your personalized low
(41:13):
FODMAp diet, whatever ends up
working for you long term is not going to be like the person I
spoke to yesterday. It's tailored
to you. And that's why, I think, also
why people come to see
practitioners like you and I, because they want something that
works for them.
>> Jolene (41:32):
Yeah. And they're tired of trying
everything in, it not working.
>> Amy (41:37):
Exactly. And if you want something that
works for you, you have to
be willing to throw away the rulebook
that said, you can't eat this, you can't eat that. Only eat
this, because any book that's been
published, anybody who's talking to a
camera on Instagram M. That book
is not written specifically for you. That
(41:59):
person is not. That person is speaking to a camera.
They're not speaking directly to you. They
don't know you. They cannot know
what is best for you. When someone finds out what
I do and they say, oh, you know, I've got anemia, what I.
What should I do? Or, oh, I've got this, what should I do? I'm like, I
don't know. I don't know you well enough to make any kind of
(42:20):
advice. I would need to know
what your dietary status is, how your
absorption is. You know, if we're discussing anemia,
why do you have anemia? Do you have gut
bleeding? Like, we can't just. It's not as simple
as, well, try liver.
>> Jolene (42:38):
You know, and it's. It's crazy that you say that, because it's true. And
that's what they say. Someone says, I have x, and I was like, well, then you
have to do this. But what's causing
x?
>> Amy (42:48):
Right, right.
>> Jolene (42:49):
You know, there's certain things that it could be a
multiple. Multiple,
Outside influences that are affecting x that we need to get
to. you know, and that's why some people.
I don't. I think that if you've tried every diet,
and this is for the people out there. If you tried every diet and
it didn't work and it should have worked, maybe you do need
(43:10):
somebody who can figure out what's going on, because our medical
system doesn't dive that deep where,
you know, certain practitioners have
tools that will dig deeper.
>> Amy (43:22):
Yes.
>> Jolene (43:22):
And try to at least find that root cause.
>> Amy (43:26):
so many times I have had people
in my office and they've been like,
I tried this and it didn't work.
Everybody lost weight but me.
or, you know, everything I do, I'm trying to lose weight
and it's not working. I don't know why. And it turns
out that whatever dietary plan they're on, that they
picked up from a book or they picked up from whatever
(43:48):
contains a food that they have a sensitivity to
and the resultant inflammation and aggravation
that's happening, the immune response that's happening from the body is
inhibiting them from losing weight. And then
as soon as you transition that food out of their diet,
like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, the weight starts to come off.
>> Jolene (44:06):
You know, it's like, it's especially big in, like, grain
free, because then they all of a sudden go to almond flour.
Well, you might not have had any problems having a
handful of almonds every few days. You're
eating way more than that when you start turning it into
a flower. So it reacts in your body
completely differently all of a sudden. Because it's in the
abundance.
>> Amy (44:26):
Yes, yes. Our ancestors did not
eat all of the almonds on the tree all at
once.
>> Jolene (44:35):
You know, I mean, we all like a good baked good every now and
then, but you have to be realistic with
what you're doing. Like, I have, I
don't know, coconut flour, because we'll eat a whole
coconut. It's probably not as condensed
as almond flour.
>> Amy (44:52):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (44:53):
or any nut flour, for that matter. You know,
it's just we've got to look at the. And also
you were meant to have, like, a little bit. So if you bake something, have
a little bit. I, always tell people it's like, it's all in the
dose. The poison's in the dose. You know, they'll
talk about all the talk about the different sweeteners and
stuff, and it's like, yeah, the poison truly isn't the dose, but
(45:13):
are you having one every
six months? Are you having five a day?
>> Amy (45:19):
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all
those, you know, all those little, whatever
approved treats that, the industry creates
for us to satisfy our cravings
also keeps us attached to the cravings. It
keeps the craving alive. And if cravings
are something that you struggle with and
(45:39):
emotional eating is something you struggle with,
the dietary, approved
substitute will not help you break free from
that.
It's really important to find non
food substitutes wherever possible
to really have a broad
diversity of coping skills and a
(46:01):
broad diversity of ways to reward and treat
yourself. It's not to say that
it's bad or wrong to use food as
a celebration, as a treat, as a comfort,
because, I mean, that's, I think,
denying your humanity.
You know, for as long as we have
been, we have celebrated
(46:23):
over a good meal because it meant that we got to live
another day.
You cannot divorce celebration
and reward from food.
However, we never want to put all
our eggs in one basket. Right. We want to have a
diverse set of coping skills available.
Because if, you know, if food is your
only resource to turn
(46:46):
to for emotions,
it will be very, very difficult to maintain your health
over the years. We just do
not have an environment
that permits that to happen.
>> Jolene (47:00):
Absolutely. It is.
We have gone to food too
much for our, coping mechanisms
rather than sitting in our feelings,
even, which is a big one. Like, you know, we got to
remember we're all one person,
so our feelings affect our health as
(47:20):
well, our emotions. And learning how
to deal with them outside of food, that's already
putting you at a disadvantage because you're
eating junk food. We need to learn that maybe
it's, you know, going outside sometimes it's just
being. It's okay to not feel okay
sometimes.
>> Amy (47:38):
Yeah, that's something too. I think we've forgotten. Right?
Like, there's this.
There's this idea that we shouldn't ever be
unhappy. That life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness somehow got morphed into
life, liberty, and the right to be happy all of the
time. And if you're going to be
(47:59):
alive for any length of time, like, that's just.
That's not. It's not a thing. It
can't happen. Life is in. Life is
chaotic.
>> Jolene (48:08):
It is chaos, it's crazy, it's chaotic,
and it's okay to feel it. Like. And I think
that when we get so separated is when we create the
problems.
>> Amy (48:17):
Yeah.
>> Jolene (48:17):
Get separated from those feelings.
We're looking to mask them, hide them. do what?
But sometimes if we just live in them, they
last a few moments and then they're gone.
>> Amy (48:29):
Yeah. The only way out is through.
>> Jolene (48:31):
And that's the same thing with our food, is the only way out is
through is you're not going to make those changes unless you
make those changes and move forward through it
and be okay with changing.
It's not one way, and that's a big one.
for me to teach everybody is that there is no one right
way. It's whatever's working for you now.
(48:55):
That's all it is, so.
Well, thank you, Amy. This has been a fabulous,
fabulous conversation. I appreciate
your time. I know I enjoyed it. I can't wait. I
have a feeling we'll be doing this again because
I need some. Some good experts on that. I can
bounce stuff off. And, it's as
(49:16):
much for me as others because we're all learning,
you know, and we all learn different ways. So I
appreciate you taking the time. And can you tell everybody
where people can find you?
>> Amy (49:28):
Oh, certainly. Certainly. if you enjoy
the sound of my voice, you can hear me
every week on blasphemous nutrition, which
is available on, nearly all of the podcast
apps as well as Apple. And
I am
also@vibrancenutrition.com
that's vibrance
(49:48):
nutrition.com.
that is the, website for my private practice.
And I am sort
of on Instagram at vibrancenutrition,
but not especially. I try and stay away
from social media because I value my mental health.
>> Jolene (50:07):
Exactly. And you know what, everybody tune into
her podcast. I will link everything in the show notes
because she was so gracious with her time today. And you're going to want to
check out her podcast because it's been fabulous. I've been listening
to it and binging it. but thank you so much for
taking the time, and I will see you all
later.
>> Amy (50:25):
Bye bye.
>> Jolene (50:28):
Thanks for listening in today. I hope you got some nuggets to take
on your health journey. Remember, this podcast is for
educational and entertainment purposes. No medical
advice is being given. By listening to this podcast, you agree to
the full disclaimer, which is linked in the show notes.
If you found this podcast helpful, could you take 30 seconds
and leave a review? Your m feedback means the world to me,
(50:48):
and it helps others discover my show. Once
again, thank you for being part of my community. Until next
time, have a blessed day.
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