November 18, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of the HR Mixtape, host Shari Simpson welcomes Dr. Kevin Wright, a Senior Racial Equity Facilitator and Consultant at the Center for Equity and Inclusion. They dive into the critical topic of financial literacy in the workplace, discussing the significant gaps in access to financial education and the role employers can play in bridging these gaps. This conversation is timely as organizations increasingly recognize the importance of employee experience and well-being, especially in light of evolving financial systems and the need for inclusive leadership.
Listener Takeaways:
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Learn how to assess your organization's current financial literacy offerings and identify gaps.
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Discover why expanding financial education resources can enhance employee retention and productivity.
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Explore strategies for leveraging existing partnerships to provide valuable financial literacy training.
Hit “Play” to gain insights that can transform your workplace culture and empower your employees!
Guest(s): Dr. Kevin Wright, Senior Racial Equity Facilitator and Consultant, Center for Equity and Inclusion
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
You're listening to the HR Mixtape. Your podcast with
the perfect mix of practical advice, thought-provoking interviews, and
stories that just hit different so that work doesn't have to feel,
well, like work. Now, your host,
Joining me today is Dr. Kevin Wright, a Senior Racial Equity
(00:22):
Facilitator and Consultant at the Center for Equity and Inclusion. Kevin
is an educator and community leader whose work in equity and
belonging has impacted more than 100,000 learners globally.
Dr. Wright, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast
with me. This is a second time I'm having you on.
(00:44):
I was so thrilled to talk to you at SHRM's Inclusion
Yes, thank you for having me. I really do appreciate it. Quite
So we are going to talk about something today different than what we
talked about last time around financial acumen,
(01:05):
financial literacy, and potentially the role that employers
have in delivering those kind of resources for
employees. You recently just gave a talk about this. Why
Yeah, definitely. So when it comes to financial literacy, I
have been involved in the financial literacy sphere for
(01:28):
about seven years now. And the reason why I believe
it is a very critical and important topic is because of
how much access people don't have to
this type of information. Granted, there is a lot of information that I
have been made privy to, but that's only been because I've been certified as
a financial education instructor. Otherwise there
(01:49):
is roughly of all the content that I was trained on,
roughly 80% of it. I had no idea. I honestly had
no idea. I didn't know what questions to ask. I didn't even know that certain things
existed. If it wasn't for my certification, I would not have
the information that I have today only because of the fact that even prior to
the certification, I didn't know what questions to even bring
(02:10):
up to to whom specifically, just
because when it comes to developing financial networks, there's
just so many titles or so many roles, so many positions that
80%, that's a staggering statistic. Where
do we start then as employers? That just
(02:30):
seems so wide. I guess, what should our first step be?
Yes, take the time to understand how
financial literacy is even prioritized or
potentially not even prioritized within your specific state.
So, for example, as a
recent study because I want to make
(02:52):
sure that I'm saying the right figures because I know it happens every two
years, but there is the National Endowment for
Financial Education. There's the Council for Economic Education. There's
the NextGen Personal Finance Association. So everybody's always
doing these types of different studies. And at least as of August of
this year, only 29 states actually require some
(03:12):
type of standalone personal finance course for
students to graduate from high school. And even then, when you think about
those twenty nine states that require some type of financial literacy, the
fact that only twenty nine require an actual standalone course, other
states that require some type of financial literacy for
students to graduate. It's either a one
(03:34):
day course or it's a one hour seminar about
how to open a checking account. But yet it checks the box of light up
financial literacy done. They can graduate. And
then in college universities, it's even more disparate, where
there's not a universal standard of financial literacy offerings
on college campuses and universities across the country. So then
(03:55):
when those folks come into the workforce post-graduation, for
the most part, yeah, they'll be given some type of resource about their
retirement in 401Ks or 403Bs
or IRAs or Roth IRAs. And even then, that's just scratching the
surface of how much access and information they
can actually have as it relates to making healthy
(04:17):
financial choices. And even tying back
to what I said earlier about like 80% of the content comes
from my certification. Just to give context, I had to go through
an 80 plus hour training. I had to take a four hour
exam. I had to get a 90% minimum just to
pass the course. So when you think about how much content
(04:37):
is covered in 80 plus hours, when you think about how much content is
tested on you for a four hour exam, it's a lot to
take in. I would say that it's important for employers to start
with understanding what does financial literacy look like as a priority within
your state? And then how is your company contributing to that
prioritization? or potentially contributing to that deprioritization. Because
(05:00):
while I appreciate employers that provide a lot of lengthy
services and resources to their employees about retirement,
the fact of the matter is, is that that's only one Little
corner of financial literacy so it's important to think
about what opportunities are we creating where person can feel.
More comfortable with talking about money also does
(05:22):
your company even create a culture where it's openly
welcome to talk about what is another some places unfortunately. have
this culture where it's just like, hey, don't talk about money. Don't talk about
salary. Don't talk about what you're making, which is
a tactic of mass distraction. So it's important for us to think
about how are we reframing our relationship with money?
(05:43):
Because for some people, when thinking about finances
and money management, it can be a very sensitive topic. It can
be a taboo topic. It can even be a traumatic topic. But
nonetheless, it's important for us to think about where are
the opportunities for us to learn more, to have access
(06:04):
You brought up a couple really good things that I hadn't considered. So
when I think back to my high school days, you know,
we were required to take, I think it was called an economics class.
And we learned to, you know, balance a checkbook back in the day. But I
don't I don't remember learning about
credit. I don't remember learning about, you know, different types of
(06:26):
credit cards, rewards cards, net rewards cards, what I
should be thinking at every stage of my life. I don't remember learning
anything about stock and the difference in types of
401ks that were available to me, potentially for me to think about. You
know, I think to my own children who are, who are now all launched and
in each one of them, I had to have a conversation about, you know, what,
(06:47):
what is credit? What affects your credit? How do we
think about it? Do I buy a car? Do I lease a car? Do I,
you know, rent or whatever I need to do? Do I buy a house? Do I not buy
a house? You know, all of those complexities, you're
right. There's a, there's a ton of resources per se
out there, but navigating them can be wholly just
(07:08):
very overwhelming. And I even think about it from the perspective of some of the
things that you mentioned, right. As you come into an organization, we'll give you, you know,
your 401k information, but What about if you
have an RSU program? What if you have a stock program?
How do you talk about compensation statements? If you've never
seen a comp statement, the totality of
(07:30):
your benefits and your salary and all these ancillary things, that
Absolutely. And that's why even when conversations about come
statements and negotiations and whatnot, a lot of people don't know
where to start. And then everyone has their own preference or
their own approach to these topics. And that's why it's
bittersweet, because while there's so much information and so much opportunity that
(07:52):
one can maximize on as it relates to financial literacy, there's
also just so many gray areas. Right.
And then also the the rules are always changing.
So one of the limitations or
one of the obstacles, I guess you could say, that I'd navigate often is
(08:12):
the fact of trying to stay current in order to share
this information with the masses. Because, for
example, when I was on college campuses back in
2020, I gave a lot of talks about the student loan debt crisis
because a lot of people were asking, like, oh, well, Kevin, like our
student loans getting forgiven? Are they getting canceled? Aren't
(08:34):
those the same thing? So having to talk about the difference between student loan
cancellation versus student loan debt forgiveness. And then even
then, that was under a different administration, because now in twenty twenty
five, the rules are different. And even then, the rules aren't even solidified yet.
They're still being formulated as we speak. So
I always tell folks, be mindful of the fact that it's one thing to even
(08:55):
take the step to have access to the information. It's another
completely different step to maintain that relevance
and that timeliness of information that you are accessing. Because, for
example, with my certification, I have to get recertified every three
years. So I have to retake the exam every three years. And that's
because every two to four years, there's a local or national
(09:17):
election. So depending on who the governor is or the president is,
will influence and inform how financial systems operate,
whether it's student loan debts, whether it's with the housing market, whether it's
with cost of living adjustments and salary, you know, the
whole gambit gets impacted. So I
always try to have employers understand that financial
(09:39):
literacy is more important than we think because it's not just a
money issue. It's not just a financial topic. It's
also a public health issue. It's also a public health concern because
of the fact that more people who develop negative and
unhealthy or unnecessary financial habits
tend to have a lower life expectancy. They tend to be in
(10:00):
more debt. They tend to have more negative of financial
habits, and they tend to make very unnecessary financial decisions
that are usually rooted in impulse or survival. No
shade to those folks, but the thing is, they don't know any better because they are a
reflection of the system. And these systems, I
mean, we already know financial systems, like many systems, were not
(10:22):
initially designed to benefit us. I mean, there was one
time in this country where women didn't have access to credit cards unless
they received permission from their husband, assuming they
were heterosexual. So it's, it's one of those things where like, even just
that historical data point shows you like financial systems
are always shifting and have always continued to shift. So
(10:43):
it's important to make sure that you are expanding that financial network
and then advocating in the workplace for those resources, because
I have more people in my network, not advocating for conferences
and conventions, they're advocating for financial literacy courses, they're advocating
for financial literacy, webinars, certifications, literature,
they're not really talking too much about like, hey, I want to get my
(11:07):
project management certification, you know, they're like, I want
to know how to buy a house. That's what I'm more focused on. I
can be a project manager anytime. But this housing market, depending
on where you live, even depending on the zip code that you live in, it's
like if you have your opportunity, you don't want to miss
it. So, of course, you're going to do everything that you can to try to get information
(11:27):
about critical topics like that, that impact your
wellbeing and your livelihood, because with financial literacy, the
goal should be not just solely being debt free. It
should also be about creating intergenerational wealth. So
essentially, what are you doing for yourself? Then also anybody
in your bloodline, in your family, in your community, you
(11:50):
There are so many nuggets that you just said. I was
feverishly taking notes because I wanted to double click into a
couple of them. The first being, you know, knowledge is power.
We know that, right? And when you have the knowledge, you
have the power to make better decisions for yourself, for your family,
for your generation. That is such an important concept that
(12:10):
we can't forget that knowledge is power. And, you know, you touched
base on the credit card thing for females. And it's
interesting because that history isn't that far behind us.
It wasn't until Please don't quote me on this. I'm going
to say 1975, but I could be off by a couple of years. You
know, women had to have their husband signed to have a checking account. You
(12:31):
know, you're talking about all these different systems and we're
still trying to teach women how to build their own wealth.
And that's just one category of people. You
know, there's all that intersexuality that complicates all those things. And
like you said, people don't know what they don't know. And so they are making
decisions based on the information they have. I want to play the
(12:53):
dissenter for a moment here for this conversation. Isn't
EAP enough? It offers all these resources. Why do I
as an employer have to go above and beyond? And again, I'm
No, no, you're totally fine. So when it comes to EAP employee
assistance programs, I am not saying that EAPs are
(13:15):
not doing enough. It's just that what I
have learned from experience, but then also actually consulting with
different organizations that have EAPs is
that usually when it comes to financial literacy and wellness,
right, it's only covering one particular aspect. or
only a limited amount of information in regards to financial literacy.
(13:37):
So if there's an opportunity to expand those
offerings, that would be great. Because here's the thing, I'm not saying that, oh,
EAPs only talk about retirement. What I'm
saying is that when I see organizations have EAPs that
offer financial wellness coaching, And even then
the employee takes advantage and
(13:58):
gets access and obtains access to that coaching. More times
than not, I'm getting people reporting that, oh, I
went to my financial coaching, financial onus coaching session. And
all we talked about was, do I have a checking account? Do
I have at least one credit card? Did I sign up for all of my
401k retirement benefits? Am I making the maximum contribution? That's
(14:20):
it. And then we just kept the surface level and we just kept on
checking the box. So it was very technical, nothing wrong with
that. And at the same time, I don't know of
too many EAP programs that are actually talking about
financial psychology, account management, developing your financial networks,
investments, stocks, bonds, CDs, et cetera, et
(14:41):
cetera. I mean, the financial network piece alone is
something that I when I do these these workshops and
these seminars, it's it's its own session, because I actually
have this activity where I put 20 titles on
the screen and I ask people, I mean, might tell me the difference between
even two of these titles. more times than not, they
(15:03):
can't. And then I ask them just like, so raise your hand if
you believe that most of these titles are probably the
same thing. And I'm talking like financial coach, financial mentor, financial
advocate, financial advisor, financial instructor,
tax planner, college planner. All of these titles sound
very synonymous, right? And yet they all have very different specializations. And
(15:28):
there are practitioners that hold multiple titles, depending
on all the spaces they're in, whether they're a financial attorney, a
tax planner, and a financial consultant, they could be all
three in their clientele, not even know. So even
with understanding what it means to diversify your financial
network. I appreciate EAPs because that is
(15:50):
one branch of a person's financial network. And
at the same time, it needs to be further expanded. It
needs to be further diversified because I think it's unfair to
EAPs to have the pressure to provide anything and
everything all at once, you know, about financial literacy.
And at the same time, I think it's unnecessary to
(16:12):
to only focus on one particular aspect of
financial literacy as it relates to the workplace. Because while I
appreciate the information about retirements,
401Ks, 403Bs, IRAs, Roth IRAs, there
is just so much more to it than that. And I wish
people were aware of that fact because of
(16:34):
the fact that some organizations navigate these
financial literacy conversations with a very minimalistic lens
where it's just like, we are only here to cover this because this is all that matters.
When in actuality, we need to be taking the time to meet the folks where
they're at. We need to first understand, does this person even know what
they're getting themselves into when they Sign up
(16:54):
for 401k. Do they even know why it's
called a 401k? Like, how did we land on the number four zero
one and then the letter K? So it's it's things like that, because I
have run into questions like that where it's important for people to, you
know, have that context where some people have just been told, oh, make
sure you sign up for it because it'll help you in the long run. But
(17:15):
when you think about this current workforce, knowing that
we have intergenerational employees, there are some people
that are navigating off of what their parents told them or
what their grandparents told them, or it's just like save, save, save, invest,
invest, invest. And at the same time, there
are some people that didn't come from that background where they're
(17:36):
literally trying to start from scratch, where maybe
they're the first person in their family's
history in a full-time job with benefits. Maybe
they're the first person in their family's history to have a job
where they're making six figures, but they don't know what to do with that. They
have access to this money, but they don't even know what to do with the
(17:57):
money. Versus somebody who comes from wealth
and stocks and bonds and inheritance money and
social capital in an investment portfolio handed
down to them. Those are two different experiences. And
yet what I've seen from organizations and some EAPs
is that they treat everyone like the same, where it's just like, you should have the same amount
(18:19):
of knowledge, you should have the same amount of awareness, and
you should already know what type of financial strategies and decisions
you want to make, as opposed to actually sitting down with the person, meeting
them where they're at, and actually walking them through it. instead of just rushing
them into a decision because of the fact that we have these tight deadlines in
the workplace. You have 15 days to sign up for your EAP. You
(18:40):
have 10 days to sign up for your retirement. You have 30 days to sign up for the rest
of your benefits. Things like that, where it's just like, it's not
fair to some people because they need more than even 30 days
to figure all of this out. And when it comes to financial literacy, that
is a lifelong learning journey. You know, there are people even
in their eighties are still finding out new things about financial literacy.
(19:01):
And now that we have certain things such as cryptocurrency, you know,
and other forms of currency, it's important to make sure that we are remaining timely
Yeah. Well, and the ever changing is so important to
remember, you know, it's something as simple as, you know, what our FSA
limits are going to be, what our tuition reimbursement limits are going to be for the year.
(19:21):
I mean, those are all driven by, you know, administration changes and
those types of things. So it's complex to say the least.
When you look at the data surrounding organizations that are
really doing this well, what kind of
ROI are they seeing in their employees? Is
there a, productivity number we're seeing? Is there a retention
(19:43):
number we're seeing? You know, how is it actually hitting the
Yeah, most definitely. So more times than not, organizations that
are actually investing more into financial literacy resources
and information for their employees are seeing higher retention rates.
They're seeing more company loyalty. They're seeing more
(20:04):
stable productivity. So, you know, deadlines are being met.
There's low turnover. Uh, there is not that much churn,
so to speak. A lot of people are actually feeling a
stronger sense of belonging to the company because they're actually seeing
like, aside from a paycheck, I can see how the company is investing into
me knowing that I am contributing all this labor, you
(20:25):
know, both physical and emotional and psychological labor into
the company. And yet here's what I'm getting in return tenfold. So
a lot of places are seeing that. And even then, a lot of
places are trying to trying to copy each other. And what
I always tell folks is that this is why it's important to assess the needs
of your people. So I'm working with organizations that
(20:46):
are providing additional financial literacy information as
it relates to stocks and bonds and navigating the stock
market, because majority of the employees said we would love to have more
information about this, whereas some organizations are now developing
a stock options, a compensation package for their employees because
many employees have said, Oh, you know, what would keep me here as
(21:08):
opposed to more pay if there was actually stock options available
based on the company that I'm working for. So now some companies are
focusing on that. They're not focusing on navigating the stock market because they
just want stock with this particular company. And that's okay because
that is where equity still comes into play. Not everybody's financial literacy
strategies or programs or offerings are going to be the same, nor
(21:29):
do they need to be. However, it is important to make sure
that we are thinking about how can we invest even more into
our employees, knowing that it will pay off in the long run. Because
I'm not saying that everyone is now going to become a millionaire overnight
because of this. However, what I am saying is that at least people can have
more of a fair chance to navigate financial systems accordingly.
(21:51):
So that way they're not having to navigate with so much misunderstanding and
I can't imagine what it would have been like when I think back to my, my
earlier career years, if I had walked into an organization and
they had said to me, Hey, you know, we have this financial literacy track
of education that you can, you know, even if it was on demand, right. That
(22:11):
you can participate in, and it's going to teach you about credit cards.
It's going to teach you about buying a house. You know, you have to
do all of that work on your own as an individual in so many organizations
and. Like you said, there's just so much information out there. It's like you don't even know necessarily
what the right stuff is. So I love kind of your first step advice
for those that are listening is figure out what your organization, what your employees
(22:33):
want. Don't go down this rabbit hole of creating all this stuff, right? Building
this whole program, hiring all these people, right? Because you may totally
miss the mark. Maybe, you know, the population really just
wants home buying stuff, maybe they want will writing
and planning for the future, or maybe they just have kids and
they need to know about trust and stuff like that. So definitely step
(22:54):
one. I love that. What's step two, right? So now
you've kind of gotten the landscape as an HR person.
Okay. I have my list now of what people want, but I don't know that I
can provide that education. You know, what are some creative
ways that we should be thinking? Obviously people like you who are consultants who are
in this space is a great resource. Is there other things in our environment, though,
(23:14):
that we should be able to tap into that maybe won't cost us
something? So I'm thinking specifically about your relationship with
401k, right? That's very specific to the 401k. You can have that
provider come in. But is there other things that we maybe haven't
realized are resources for us as HR professionals to
Yes, I mean, financial consultants are definitely a good thing. Financial
(23:38):
education instructors, which is a separate role is
another thing. And the thing is that they don't necessarily have to always come at a
cost depending on what you need. I would
say the 2nd step is to understand how. Essentially
assess what partnerships do you already have in terms of who holds this
knowledge that you may haven't tapped into that much and
(23:59):
then what can they provide in addition you know in addition to
further sustaining that relationship so like for example I've
seen some organizations who. primarily work with
like Vanguard and Fidelity and AXA Equitable, you know, for
their retirement accounts. And yet they also have
partnered with those companies to provide additional financial literacy
(24:19):
education to their employees because the companies tapped
further into the resources that companies such as those had
at their disposal that they didn't know about. Now, granted, These
companies weren't trying to hide the fact that they had these resources, just that more
times than not, they come from historically only
having transactional relationships or transactional partnerships
(24:41):
with companies where it's just for the sake of the 401k retirement benefits,
nothing else. So now that folks are aware, they're like, hey,
these companies that we already work with, let's further strengthen this
partnership. Or for example, I work with a lot of colleges and
universities. So I know that many colleges and universities have
partnerships with other local banking institutions,
(25:03):
if not credit unions, who also provide financial literacy
education as well, usually at no cost because of the fact
that they are already serving the demographic that they are already being paid to
serve. So therefore there's usually no cost. There's
just an added benefit to further strengthening the relationship, strengthening
the partnership, but then also strengthening the availability of
(25:24):
offerings. And even in regards to that, I would say
an additional second step is to develop a
strategy on how you're going to sustain what you're
offering because of the fact that the information is always
shifting. It is always changing depending on who is in political office.
Wow, Kevin, this was such a good conversation. It gave
(25:45):
me personally a lot of food for thought. I'm sure it gave our audience
a lot of notes to take back to their organizations as well. So thanks for
I hope you enjoyed today's episode. You can find show notes
and links at TheHRMixtape.com. Come back
You're listening to the HR Mixtape. Your podcast with
the perfect mix of practical advice, thought-provoking interviews, and
stories that just hit different so that work doesn't have to feel,
well, like work. Now, your host,
Joining me today is Dr. Kevin Wright, a Senior Racial Equity
(00:22):
Facilitator and Consultant at the Center for Equity and Inclusion. Kevin
is an educator and community leader whose work in equity and
belonging has impacted more than 100,000 learners globally.
Dr. Wright, thank you so much for jumping on the podcast
with me. This is a second time I'm having you on.
(00:44):
I was so thrilled to talk to you at SHRM's Inclusion
Yes, thank you for having me. I really do appreciate it. Quite
So we are going to talk about something today different than what we
talked about last time around financial acumen,
(01:05):
financial literacy, and potentially the role that employers
have in delivering those kind of resources for
employees. You recently just gave a talk about this. Why
Yeah, definitely. So when it comes to financial literacy, I
have been involved in the financial literacy sphere for
(01:28):
about seven years now. And the reason why I believe
it is a very critical and important topic is because of
how much access people don't have to
this type of information. Granted, there is a lot of information that I
have been made privy to, but that's only been because I've been certified as
a financial education instructor. Otherwise there
(01:49):
is roughly of all the content that I was trained on,
roughly 80% of it. I had no idea. I honestly had
no idea. I didn't know what questions to ask. I didn't even know that certain things
existed. If it wasn't for my certification, I would not have
the information that I have today only because of the fact that even prior to
the certification, I didn't know what questions to even bring
(02:10):
up to to whom specifically, just
because when it comes to developing financial networks, there's
just so many titles or so many roles, so many positions that
80%, that's a staggering statistic. Where
do we start then as employers? That just
(02:30):
seems so wide. I guess, what should our first step be?
Yes, take the time to understand how
financial literacy is even prioritized or
potentially not even prioritized within your specific state.
So, for example, as a
recent study because I want to make
(02:52):
sure that I'm saying the right figures because I know it happens every two
years, but there is the National Endowment for
Financial Education. There's the Council for Economic Education. There's
the NextGen Personal Finance Association. So everybody's always
doing these types of different studies. And at least as of August of
this year, only 29 states actually require some
(03:12):
type of standalone personal finance course for
students to graduate from high school. And even then, when you think about
those twenty nine states that require some type of financial literacy, the
fact that only twenty nine require an actual standalone course, other
states that require some type of financial literacy for
students to graduate. It's either a one
(03:34):
day course or it's a one hour seminar about
how to open a checking account. But yet it checks the box of light up
financial literacy done. They can graduate. And
then in college universities, it's even more disparate, where
there's not a universal standard of financial literacy offerings
on college campuses and universities across the country. So then
(03:55):
when those folks come into the workforce post-graduation, for
the most part, yeah, they'll be given some type of resource about their
retirement in 401Ks or 403Bs
or IRAs or Roth IRAs. And even then, that's just scratching the
surface of how much access and information they
can actually have as it relates to making healthy
(04:17):
financial choices. And even tying back
to what I said earlier about like 80% of the content comes
from my certification. Just to give context, I had to go through
an 80 plus hour training. I had to take a four hour
exam. I had to get a 90% minimum just to
pass the course. So when you think about how much content
(04:37):
is covered in 80 plus hours, when you think about how much content is
tested on you for a four hour exam, it's a lot to
take in. I would say that it's important for employers to start
with understanding what does financial literacy look like as a priority within
your state? And then how is your company contributing to that
prioritization? or potentially contributing to that deprioritization. Because
(05:00):
while I appreciate employers that provide a lot of lengthy
services and resources to their employees about retirement,
the fact of the matter is, is that that's only one Little
corner of financial literacy so it's important to think
about what opportunities are we creating where person can feel.
More comfortable with talking about money also does
(05:22):
your company even create a culture where it's openly
welcome to talk about what is another some places unfortunately. have
this culture where it's just like, hey, don't talk about money. Don't talk about
salary. Don't talk about what you're making, which is
a tactic of mass distraction. So it's important for us to think
about how are we reframing our relationship with money?
(05:43):
Because for some people, when thinking about finances
and money management, it can be a very sensitive topic. It can
be a taboo topic. It can even be a traumatic topic. But
nonetheless, it's important for us to think about where are
the opportunities for us to learn more, to have access
(06:04):
You brought up a couple really good things that I hadn't considered. So
when I think back to my high school days, you know,
we were required to take, I think it was called an economics class.
And we learned to, you know, balance a checkbook back in the day. But I
don't I don't remember learning about
credit. I don't remember learning about, you know, different types of
(06:26):
credit cards, rewards cards, net rewards cards, what I
should be thinking at every stage of my life. I don't remember learning
anything about stock and the difference in types of
401ks that were available to me, potentially for me to think about. You
know, I think to my own children who are, who are now all launched and
in each one of them, I had to have a conversation about, you know, what,
(06:47):
what is credit? What affects your credit? How do we
think about it? Do I buy a car? Do I lease a car? Do I,
you know, rent or whatever I need to do? Do I buy a house? Do I not buy
a house? You know, all of those complexities, you're
right. There's a, there's a ton of resources per se
out there, but navigating them can be wholly just
(07:08):
very overwhelming. And I even think about it from the perspective of some of the
things that you mentioned, right. As you come into an organization, we'll give you, you know,
your 401k information, but What about if you
have an RSU program? What if you have a stock program?
How do you talk about compensation statements? If you've never
seen a comp statement, the totality of
(07:30):
your benefits and your salary and all these ancillary things, that
Absolutely. And that's why even when conversations about come
statements and negotiations and whatnot, a lot of people don't know
where to start. And then everyone has their own preference or
their own approach to these topics. And that's why it's
bittersweet, because while there's so much information and so much opportunity that
(07:52):
one can maximize on as it relates to financial literacy, there's
also just so many gray areas. Right.
And then also the the rules are always changing.
So one of the limitations or
one of the obstacles, I guess you could say, that I'd navigate often is
(08:12):
the fact of trying to stay current in order to share
this information with the masses. Because, for
example, when I was on college campuses back in
2020, I gave a lot of talks about the student loan debt crisis
because a lot of people were asking, like, oh, well, Kevin, like our
student loans getting forgiven? Are they getting canceled? Aren't
(08:34):
those the same thing? So having to talk about the difference between student loan
cancellation versus student loan debt forgiveness. And then even
then, that was under a different administration, because now in twenty twenty
five, the rules are different. And even then, the rules aren't even solidified yet.
They're still being formulated as we speak. So
I always tell folks, be mindful of the fact that it's one thing to even
(08:55):
take the step to have access to the information. It's another
completely different step to maintain that relevance
and that timeliness of information that you are accessing. Because, for
example, with my certification, I have to get recertified every three
years. So I have to retake the exam every three years. And that's
because every two to four years, there's a local or national
(09:17):
election. So depending on who the governor is or the president is,
will influence and inform how financial systems operate,
whether it's student loan debts, whether it's with the housing market, whether it's
with cost of living adjustments and salary, you know, the
whole gambit gets impacted. So I
always try to have employers understand that financial
(09:39):
literacy is more important than we think because it's not just a
money issue. It's not just a financial topic. It's
also a public health issue. It's also a public health concern because
of the fact that more people who develop negative and
unhealthy or unnecessary financial habits
tend to have a lower life expectancy. They tend to be in
(10:00):
more debt. They tend to have more negative of financial
habits, and they tend to make very unnecessary financial decisions
that are usually rooted in impulse or survival. No
shade to those folks, but the thing is, they don't know any better because they are a
reflection of the system. And these systems, I
mean, we already know financial systems, like many systems, were not
(10:22):
initially designed to benefit us. I mean, there was one
time in this country where women didn't have access to credit cards unless
they received permission from their husband, assuming they
were heterosexual. So it's, it's one of those things where like, even just
that historical data point shows you like financial systems
are always shifting and have always continued to shift. So
(10:43):
it's important to make sure that you are expanding that financial network
and then advocating in the workplace for those resources, because
I have more people in my network, not advocating for conferences
and conventions, they're advocating for financial literacy courses, they're advocating
for financial literacy, webinars, certifications, literature,
they're not really talking too much about like, hey, I want to get my
(11:07):
project management certification, you know, they're like, I want
to know how to buy a house. That's what I'm more focused on. I
can be a project manager anytime. But this housing market, depending
on where you live, even depending on the zip code that you live in, it's
like if you have your opportunity, you don't want to miss
it. So, of course, you're going to do everything that you can to try to get information
(11:27):
about critical topics like that, that impact your
wellbeing and your livelihood, because with financial literacy, the
goal should be not just solely being debt free. It
should also be about creating intergenerational wealth. So
essentially, what are you doing for yourself? Then also anybody
in your bloodline, in your family, in your community, you
(11:50):
There are so many nuggets that you just said. I was
feverishly taking notes because I wanted to double click into a
couple of them. The first being, you know, knowledge is power.
We know that, right? And when you have the knowledge, you
have the power to make better decisions for yourself, for your family,
for your generation. That is such an important concept that
(12:10):
we can't forget that knowledge is power. And, you know, you touched
base on the credit card thing for females. And it's
interesting because that history isn't that far behind us.
It wasn't until Please don't quote me on this. I'm going
to say 1975, but I could be off by a couple of years. You
know, women had to have their husband signed to have a checking account. You
(12:31):
know, you're talking about all these different systems and we're
still trying to teach women how to build their own wealth.
And that's just one category of people. You
know, there's all that intersexuality that complicates all those things. And
like you said, people don't know what they don't know. And so they are making
decisions based on the information they have. I want to play the
(12:53):
dissenter for a moment here for this conversation. Isn't
EAP enough? It offers all these resources. Why do I
as an employer have to go above and beyond? And again, I'm
No, no, you're totally fine. So when it comes to EAP employee
assistance programs, I am not saying that EAPs are
(13:15):
not doing enough. It's just that what I
have learned from experience, but then also actually consulting with
different organizations that have EAPs is
that usually when it comes to financial literacy and wellness,
right, it's only covering one particular aspect. or
only a limited amount of information in regards to financial literacy.
(13:37):
So if there's an opportunity to expand those
offerings, that would be great. Because here's the thing, I'm not saying that, oh,
EAPs only talk about retirement. What I'm
saying is that when I see organizations have EAPs that
offer financial wellness coaching, And even then
the employee takes advantage and
(13:58):
gets access and obtains access to that coaching. More times
than not, I'm getting people reporting that, oh, I
went to my financial coaching, financial onus coaching session. And
all we talked about was, do I have a checking account? Do
I have at least one credit card? Did I sign up for all of my
401k retirement benefits? Am I making the maximum contribution? That's
(14:20):
it. And then we just kept the surface level and we just kept on
checking the box. So it was very technical, nothing wrong with
that. And at the same time, I don't know of
too many EAP programs that are actually talking about
financial psychology, account management, developing your financial networks,
investments, stocks, bonds, CDs, et cetera, et
(14:41):
cetera. I mean, the financial network piece alone is
something that I when I do these these workshops and
these seminars, it's it's its own session, because I actually
have this activity where I put 20 titles on
the screen and I ask people, I mean, might tell me the difference between
even two of these titles. more times than not, they
(15:03):
can't. And then I ask them just like, so raise your hand if
you believe that most of these titles are probably the
same thing. And I'm talking like financial coach, financial mentor, financial
advocate, financial advisor, financial instructor,
tax planner, college planner. All of these titles sound
very synonymous, right? And yet they all have very different specializations. And
(15:28):
there are practitioners that hold multiple titles, depending
on all the spaces they're in, whether they're a financial attorney, a
tax planner, and a financial consultant, they could be all
three in their clientele, not even know. So even
with understanding what it means to diversify your financial
network. I appreciate EAPs because that is
(15:50):
one branch of a person's financial network. And
at the same time, it needs to be further expanded. It
needs to be further diversified because I think it's unfair to
EAPs to have the pressure to provide anything and
everything all at once, you know, about financial literacy.
And at the same time, I think it's unnecessary to
(16:12):
to only focus on one particular aspect of
financial literacy as it relates to the workplace. Because while I
appreciate the information about retirements,
401Ks, 403Bs, IRAs, Roth IRAs, there
is just so much more to it than that. And I wish
people were aware of that fact because of
(16:34):
the fact that some organizations navigate these
financial literacy conversations with a very minimalistic lens
where it's just like, we are only here to cover this because this is all that matters.
When in actuality, we need to be taking the time to meet the folks where
they're at. We need to first understand, does this person even know what
they're getting themselves into when they Sign up
(16:54):
for 401k. Do they even know why it's
called a 401k? Like, how did we land on the number four zero
one and then the letter K? So it's it's things like that, because I
have run into questions like that where it's important for people to, you
know, have that context where some people have just been told, oh, make
sure you sign up for it because it'll help you in the long run. But
(17:15):
when you think about this current workforce, knowing that
we have intergenerational employees, there are some people
that are navigating off of what their parents told them or
what their grandparents told them, or it's just like save, save, save, invest,
invest, invest. And at the same time, there
are some people that didn't come from that background where they're
(17:36):
literally trying to start from scratch, where maybe
they're the first person in their family's
history in a full-time job with benefits. Maybe
they're the first person in their family's history to have a job
where they're making six figures, but they don't know what to do with that. They
have access to this money, but they don't even know what to do with the
(17:57):
money. Versus somebody who comes from wealth
and stocks and bonds and inheritance money and
social capital in an investment portfolio handed
down to them. Those are two different experiences. And
yet what I've seen from organizations and some EAPs
is that they treat everyone like the same, where it's just like, you should have the same amount
(18:19):
of knowledge, you should have the same amount of awareness, and
you should already know what type of financial strategies and decisions
you want to make, as opposed to actually sitting down with the person, meeting
them where they're at, and actually walking them through it. instead of just rushing
them into a decision because of the fact that we have these tight deadlines in
the workplace. You have 15 days to sign up for your EAP. You
(18:40):
have 10 days to sign up for your retirement. You have 30 days to sign up for the rest
of your benefits. Things like that, where it's just like, it's not
fair to some people because they need more than even 30 days
to figure all of this out. And when it comes to financial literacy, that
is a lifelong learning journey. You know, there are people even
in their eighties are still finding out new things about financial literacy.
(19:01):
And now that we have certain things such as cryptocurrency, you know,
and other forms of currency, it's important to make sure that we are remaining timely
Yeah. Well, and the ever changing is so important to
remember, you know, it's something as simple as, you know, what our FSA
limits are going to be, what our tuition reimbursement limits are going to be for the year.
(19:21):
I mean, those are all driven by, you know, administration changes and
those types of things. So it's complex to say the least.
When you look at the data surrounding organizations that are
really doing this well, what kind of
ROI are they seeing in their employees? Is
there a, productivity number we're seeing? Is there a retention
(19:43):
number we're seeing? You know, how is it actually hitting the
Yeah, most definitely. So more times than not, organizations that
are actually investing more into financial literacy resources
and information for their employees are seeing higher retention rates.
They're seeing more company loyalty. They're seeing more
(20:04):
stable productivity. So, you know, deadlines are being met.
There's low turnover. Uh, there is not that much churn,
so to speak. A lot of people are actually feeling a
stronger sense of belonging to the company because they're actually seeing
like, aside from a paycheck, I can see how the company is investing into
me knowing that I am contributing all this labor, you
(20:25):
know, both physical and emotional and psychological labor into
the company. And yet here's what I'm getting in return tenfold. So
a lot of places are seeing that. And even then, a lot of
places are trying to trying to copy each other. And what
I always tell folks is that this is why it's important to assess the needs
of your people. So I'm working with organizations that
(20:46):
are providing additional financial literacy information as
it relates to stocks and bonds and navigating the stock
market, because majority of the employees said we would love to have more
information about this, whereas some organizations are now developing
a stock options, a compensation package for their employees because
many employees have said, Oh, you know, what would keep me here as
(21:08):
opposed to more pay if there was actually stock options available
based on the company that I'm working for. So now some companies are
focusing on that. They're not focusing on navigating the stock market because they
just want stock with this particular company. And that's okay because
that is where equity still comes into play. Not everybody's financial literacy
strategies or programs or offerings are going to be the same, nor
(21:29):
do they need to be. However, it is important to make sure
that we are thinking about how can we invest even more into
our employees, knowing that it will pay off in the long run. Because
I'm not saying that everyone is now going to become a millionaire overnight
because of this. However, what I am saying is that at least people can have
more of a fair chance to navigate financial systems accordingly.
(21:51):
So that way they're not having to navigate with so much misunderstanding and
I can't imagine what it would have been like when I think back to my, my
earlier career years, if I had walked into an organization and
they had said to me, Hey, you know, we have this financial literacy track
of education that you can, you know, even if it was on demand, right. That
(22:11):
you can participate in, and it's going to teach you about credit cards.
It's going to teach you about buying a house. You know, you have to
do all of that work on your own as an individual in so many organizations
and. Like you said, there's just so much information out there. It's like you don't even know necessarily
what the right stuff is. So I love kind of your first step advice
for those that are listening is figure out what your organization, what your employees
(22:33):
want. Don't go down this rabbit hole of creating all this stuff, right? Building
this whole program, hiring all these people, right? Because you may totally
miss the mark. Maybe, you know, the population really just
wants home buying stuff, maybe they want will writing
and planning for the future, or maybe they just have kids and
they need to know about trust and stuff like that. So definitely step
(22:54):
one. I love that. What's step two, right? So now
you've kind of gotten the landscape as an HR person.
Okay. I have my list now of what people want, but I don't know that I
can provide that education. You know, what are some creative
ways that we should be thinking? Obviously people like you who are consultants who are
in this space is a great resource. Is there other things in our environment, though,
(23:14):
that we should be able to tap into that maybe won't cost us
something? So I'm thinking specifically about your relationship with
401k, right? That's very specific to the 401k. You can have that
provider come in. But is there other things that we maybe haven't
realized are resources for us as HR professionals to
Yes, I mean, financial consultants are definitely a good thing. Financial
(23:38):
education instructors, which is a separate role is
another thing. And the thing is that they don't necessarily have to always come at a
cost depending on what you need. I would
say the 2nd step is to understand how. Essentially
assess what partnerships do you already have in terms of who holds this
knowledge that you may haven't tapped into that much and
(23:59):
then what can they provide in addition you know in addition to
further sustaining that relationship so like for example I've
seen some organizations who. primarily work with
like Vanguard and Fidelity and AXA Equitable, you know, for
their retirement accounts. And yet they also have
partnered with those companies to provide additional financial literacy
(24:19):
education to their employees because the companies tapped
further into the resources that companies such as those had
at their disposal that they didn't know about. Now, granted, These
companies weren't trying to hide the fact that they had these resources, just that more
times than not, they come from historically only
having transactional relationships or transactional partnerships
(24:41):
with companies where it's just for the sake of the 401k retirement benefits,
nothing else. So now that folks are aware, they're like, hey,
these companies that we already work with, let's further strengthen this
partnership. Or for example, I work with a lot of colleges and
universities. So I know that many colleges and universities have
partnerships with other local banking institutions,
(25:03):
if not credit unions, who also provide financial literacy
education as well, usually at no cost because of the fact
that they are already serving the demographic that they are already being paid to
serve. So therefore there's usually no cost. There's
just an added benefit to further strengthening the relationship, strengthening
the partnership, but then also strengthening the availability of
(25:24):
offerings. And even in regards to that, I would say
an additional second step is to develop a
strategy on how you're going to sustain what you're
offering because of the fact that the information is always
shifting. It is always changing depending on who is in political office.
Wow, Kevin, this was such a good conversation. It gave
(25:45):
me personally a lot of food for thought. I'm sure it gave our audience
a lot of notes to take back to their organizations as well. So thanks for
I hope you enjoyed today's episode. You can find show notes
and links at TheHRMixtape.com. Come back
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