April 11, 2024 • 27 mins
Embark on an informative journey into the realm of credit scores and repair, featuring our special guest, Micah Smith, a credit solutions expert and owner of Micah Abigail Credit Solutions. In this episode of Hudson Valley's Real Estate Explained, hosts Michael Kahn and Rick Brescia dive deep into credit's vital role in real estate transactions and beyond.
Hear Micah explore the algorithms behind credit scoring, illustrating their potential impact on your financial dealings. From property purchases to securing business credit lines and affecting employment opportunities, she covers the extensive reach of credit scores. Learn about the importance of premium credit tiers, measures to improve your credit standing, and how her company helps individuals restore their credit health.
Engage in an enlightening discussion about the disparity in credit scoring algorithms between platforms like Credit Karma and Beacon 5.0, illuminating the intricacies of the credit industry. Find out how to get started with analyzing your credit reports, debunk common credit repair myths, and the significance of patience and dedication in restoring credit.
Benefit from Micah's expert advice whether you're buying a home, investing in real estate, or seeking to improve your understanding of credit scores. Elevate your financial literacy with this practical, enlightening episode packed with valuable insight into the credit repair landscape.
Don't miss out on this opportunity to learn from an industry expert and seize control of your financial future. For those trying to improve credit scores or delve deeper into the credit industry, this episode is an invaluable resource.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Hudson Valley's Real Estate Explained, your getaway to understanding real estate.
Whether you're buying your first home, an experienced investor,
or just real estate curious, this is the place for you.
So dive in with us as we unravel the intricacies of property deals and investment
strategies guided by industry experts.
We're demystifying Hudson Valley real estate together.
(00:26):
Let's go. And welcome back to another episode of Hudson in Valley Real Estate
Explained. I'm your host, Michael Kahn, and I'm joined today with my co-host,
Mr. Rick Brescia. How are you?
Wonderful. Thanks, Mike. Welcome back, everybody.
Excellent. So today, this will be released later, but today is a special day.
It's the day after the solar eclipse and it is 73 degrees and somehow we are
(00:48):
in a vault recording a podcast as opposed to being out there,
but bringing valuable content to you is important to us.
So here we are And we have a very special guest with us today.
Today is all about credit, not just credit repair, but understanding credit
at a deeper level. And we brought in Micah Smith.
She's owner of Micah Abigail Credit Solutions.
(01:10):
Micah, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely. We're thrilled to have you here. I know credit's on a lot of people's
mind, whether you're a first-time home buyer or an investor or even a seller, right?
You want to understand credit and how it impacts everything in your life, but also real estate.
But before we dive into that, tell us, you're a bit of an expert on credit and credit repair.
(01:32):
Tell us a little bit about how you got here and what made you start this organization?
I will make it short and to the
point. So I've actually been in the credit space for about 11 11 years.
And I was recruited into a very large firm. They were based out of Colorado,
which is actually where I'm originally from, born and raised.
And so I worked for this big firm for a long time.
(01:55):
And about three and a half years ago, I saw the writing on the wall.
And I'm like, I have to do this. I have an obsession with this very topic.
And I've been teaching coast to coast. And you're going to find that my affinity
for credit repair is very odd.
And so I saw the writing on the wall.
And I'm like, I have to start my own firm. So I started laying the groundwork
(02:15):
and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on education, man hours,
learning the back end of credit repair and opening up a firm in New York,
did the first year pro bono.
And then the last two and a half years, we've been open to the public and it's
been going swimmingly. That's awesome.
Thank you. That's fantastic.
So your firm essentially helps people understand their credit and improve their
(02:39):
credit scores so that they can, you know, take advantage of everything that
credit has to offer them. Correct?
Exactly. We want to give them buying power. So let's, let's dive right into that.
What, why is your, let's start very, very basic, but in a more detailed sense,
we all know credit's important because if you want to buy a car,
you're probably going to need credit, but let's
(02:59):
peel back a few layers of the onion. Why is having good credit so important?
Absolutely. So we believe it's a cornerstone to your overall financial health.
Credit is a true reflection of your financial health.
It impacts every aspect of your life from jobs that you can have to now they
have even dating apps where it's going to be exclusive to who you can date based
(03:23):
off of your credit score.
So it's- Is that, hold on, is that really a thing? It's really a thing.
It's unbelievable where not having a great credit score can hinder you in more
ways than you ever thought possible, from the people you date to the cars you
drive to how much you pay for insurance, your utility bills.
It's literally attached to every little thing. And now it's going to potentially
be attached to who you can and can't date.
(03:45):
To your love life. so mike and i didn't know that because
this would be a good time to do this plug because we're so
incredibly happily married that we would not know
that i mean yes not to each other but but we
are married and and you know we we wouldn't know that right listen i'm happily
married as well but i have to stay abreast of these things that come into play
right yeah you're not trying to suck up to your partner through a podcast though
(04:10):
too shy too shy absolutely fascinating i had no idea had had that much of an impact.
Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy, right? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. So, so obviously there's something that needs to be considered across the board.
When somebody comes into your organization and says, Hey, you know, I need some help.
What does that look like? Walk me through the process of getting somebody from,
(04:33):
you know, just knocking on your door to credit healthy, where they can go on
any dating app they want. Yes, absolutely.
So the first thing we do with every client is we do what's called a soft pull tri-merge.
So a soft pull simply means it doesn't impact the credit score in a negative
way, but we're pulling credit reports that are going to give you a full 10-year history.
So we can see everything that's going on, positive, negative,
(04:54):
what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong.
And we want to set you up with realistic expectations. We're going to set you
up with a roadmap as far as how you're going to be successful in our program.
So whether it's a five-month plan, a one-year plan, whatever it may be,
we're going to set you up so that you have a realistic expectations as far as
how our program works, right? What you can do better.
And then they understand what it is that we're going to be assisting with.
(05:16):
And again, we assist with the repair, which most people don't understand what that is.
We can go into that, but we give them a very clear roadmap.
But first things first, we always look at that credit report because that tells us the entire story.
So what's the goal? Just to get a better score?
For some people, but we want to be as specific usually as possible.
So my business is really geared towards, so all of my partners are lenders,
(05:39):
real estate agents, brokers, investors.
So that's my, those are my partners. And so, you know, partnering with like,
for instance, like Kai, who's here in the, in the office with us.
Right. So when he is a client that needs assistance, he's like,
Micah, we got to get this person to a 640 because we're trying to do this type
of loan and we need it to be here.
And by this time, and can you make it happen? That kind of a thing.
So the more specific they are, obviously, the better.
(05:59):
And the goal is to obviously on our end, we want to get them into premium tiers
long term. So there's usually short term and long term goals.
So it's really our goal for them is always to get them into premium tiers.
So they're saving as much money as possible. Absolutely. 760 to 780.
Well, you're mentioning calls, sorry, not calls, but numbers 760,
(06:21):
780, are all credit scores the same?
Like, for instance, I heard a rumor that not all scores are the same.
Yes. So really what it comes down to is where do you pull your score from?
So what people don't realize is that there are hundreds of algorithms that they
use to calculate your score.
(06:41):
So one of the biggest myths that I debunk in all of my seminars is credit karma
versus everybody else because everybody uses credit karma as like the end-all
be-all and that's not how it works.
Credit karma is what we call a vantage scoring model.
So it's oftentimes, so say you pull your score with a lender in the mortgage
world, that credit karma score on average is going to be about 40 to 60 points
(07:03):
higher than what a lender will see.
And it's because it's just simply a different algorithm that they use to calculate
the score. So the one big thing that I want everyone to know is that whoever
pulls your score, that's your score with them and them alone.
Scores are not transferable. So if you go get a card, that's your score with
them. If you're looking at your bank, your bank.
Card or your bank score app, right? That's your score with them.
(07:24):
If you're looking at credit karma, that's your score with them.
You go to a mortgage lender, that's your score with them. They're not transferable,
but you usually see different scores from pole to pole to pole to pole.
So how does that happen, right? Because, I mean, we have the exact same credit history.
If we go and apply different places, are they just putting different weightings
on different things in your credit?
Exactly. It's the algorithm. That's my favorite word, the algorithm.
(07:45):
Yep. That's all that it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's that fancy mathematical equation. equation.
So like, for instance, to show off a little bit, like the mortgage industry
uses Beacon 5.0, Farisic version 2, Classico 4.
Those are the names of the algorithms that are used in the mortgage industry
versus say you go to Credit Karma, they're using Vantage 3.0, right?
Mortgage industry is coming up with new algorithms. We've got Vantage 4.0,
then you get the car industry, there's like FICO 2, FICO 8, FICO 9,
(08:09):
you've got FICO 10, FICO 10 T plus.
I mean, there's so many. So many different ways to analyze the same information.
Yes, yes. So it's pretty mind boggling.
That's fascinating. And I've seen Vantage in several places.
I think that's one that a lot of the banks probably use when I pull up like
a Chase or a TG or something like that. And, you know, say your Vantage credit score.
(08:32):
Yes, some of them do. Some use Vantage. Yeah. Most of them use FICO.
Most. But yeah, Vantage does get used by some bank cards. Absolutely.
Yes. Very, very interesting. Yeah.
So obviously we need to get our credit. it.
If let's, let's talk for a first-time home buyer that's thinking about buying
a home in your professional understanding, where do they need to be from a credit
(08:56):
score to get the best possible outcome for their home buying?
760 to 780. You don't get any better rate past that point. So anything past
that is bragging rights. That's it.
That's excellent. So 760, 780, how on, on how many people are actually up in that range right now?
Like, do you have, Do you have any idea on like the general population who has what credit scores?
(09:19):
Very few. It's very, very few. I actually don't even know because the statistics
are not up to date. So I can really only see statistics from even like a couple of years ago.
So my speculation is, is that scores seemingly seem to be dropping lower and
lower and as a result of COVID.
And so it's, I don't know who's in those premium tiers. My husband,
myself, and a few other people.
(09:40):
Not that many. My team.
Well, that's good. Yeah. As they should be. As they should be, yeah.
So let's say you have less than perfect credit and you're going to buy a home.
Would you recommend, I guess it depends on you're looking at the credit history,
would you take a look at that with somebody and say, hey, we can fix this in
(10:02):
60 days so that you can get a higher credit score and get a better interest
rate? Is that a service that you offer?
Yes. So when we look at the credit report, so one of the biggest things that
credit repair is not supposed to do is we're not legally supposed to give someone
timeframes because there's too many variables that could potentially impact the credit score.
So we don't usually ever give anyone a definitive time frame.
We give them the potential possibility that something could happen,
(10:25):
you know, within 30 days. So each round of investigations.
So when we're going after a negative item, right, the bureaus,
the creditors, they have 30 days to conduct a full investigation and respond back to the client.
So we let them know, hey, there's a 30-day time frame and hopefully we see something
within that amount of time.
But we don't ever give them a definitive time frame because legally we're not allowed to.
Got it. But a lot of repair companies do just to make a sale.
(10:48):
And that's what's really disheartening.
Yeah, I can imagine that's a complicated thing to put an actual date on. It is.
But people are very happy when they see results after 30 days because it happens all the time.
Love it. A lot of our listeners are investors too, and we work a lot with investors.
And I imagine that a business line of credit differs from your personal line
(11:11):
of credit. Does your personal line of credit differ?
Or not line of credit, but does your personal credit score affect your ability
to get business credit? Like what's the, how does that work? Absolutely.
And that's one of the biggest things that, and we didn't even cover that when
you said, what does it impact? Like also your business.
So if you're trying to get business credit, they're absolutely going to ask
you initially for that personal guarantee because you're not established yet.
(11:31):
So that personal guarantee, if you have bad personal credit,
then it's obviously going to be a much slower route to building that business credit.
And so you're not going to get approved for the creme de la creme,
when you're trying to establish that business credit, but there are options
for people with low credit scores, just like there are with personal.
There are a lot of options for low personal scores, but it's going to cost you
more. Everything will cost you more.
(11:52):
And that's what it comes down to. So the riskier you look on paper,
the more it's going to cost you. Got it.
Now, if you take out a business line of credit, does that help your,
I mean, you ran your personal credit to have a guarantee.
If you take out a business line of credit, does that help your personal credit as well or no?
It does not. So here's the one thing. So what people don't realize,
(12:13):
and it gets very convoluted very, very quickly.
But so for instance, when you open up business trade lines, and I'm going to
keep it super simple, but say you open up a Capital One credit card,
a business credit card, it's going to report to your personal credit.
So it's not just going to report to your business. Whereas say you open up a
Chase credit card, it's only going to report to your EIN and to your business credit.
So if you default on the Chase credit credit card, then it reports to your personal,
(12:34):
therefore causing major catastrophe.
And then the capital one that reports to your personal, what you don't want
there is a lot of times business owners are racking up large amounts of debt.
And you don't want that reporting to your personal credit because that hurts your utilization.
So credit cards, high utilization brings down the credit score.
So ideally, you want to know which ones report to personal, which ones don't,
(12:55):
because otherwise you can cause absolute harm.
But it does not impact you in a a positive way on your personal credit once
you have something open in your business.
Got it. Very interesting. Yeah. So...
If somebody really wanted to analyze their credit, what are the things they
should be? Where do they start?
So the first place you want to start is credit reports, right?
(13:17):
So the credit and they make them. Credit karma?
No. So, I mean, there's so many services out there that offer credit reports.
So the ones we use, so we use a company called GetFitCredit.com and they use
a Vantage 3.0 model as well, but it's a very easy credit report to read.
And it's something that we go, that's what we use for all of our clients.
(13:41):
But there's a lot of resources out there.
I would also say, so you can go to myannualreport.com. You're entitled to one
free credit report a year from the credit bureaus, but I'm gonna tell you this.
If you're looking at those reports, they're extremely confusing.
So you're gonna be very, very overwhelmed.
So that's why we like the getfitcredit.com or even like myfico.com.
It's a great resource because they're gonna give you access to like over 20 different algorithms.
(14:04):
And so you'll be able to see your mortgage scores. You can see your auto loan scores.
You can see so many different scores based off of, and it's a hundred percent accurate.
So my FICO is great. It's a lot to go through, but if you take the time,
you can actually see what your real scores are depending on what you're looking for at the time.
Very interesting. Very interesting. Mike, I just had a quick question.
(14:25):
When people come in to you generally, is there something that's the usual biggest problem?
Like you can see it's either like, you know, people just rack up credit cards
or, you know, like, is there something that's, I don't want to say a standard
by any means, but like you know to look for immediately like,
oh, I could see what's driving them down. Sure.
(14:46):
So when I teach my classes with my lenders, one of the biggest things we look
at on their credit reports is we see factor codes.
So the factor codes is actually it's
going to determine what it is that's impacting the score most to least.
So, you know, either it's going to be negative items or it's going to be debt.
And I would say, you know, it's 75% of the time negative items and 25% of the
time it's going to be, you know, the credit card debt.
(15:08):
So, you know, obviously the repair, we're helping with the negative items.
So if you've had late payments, collections, charge-offs, I mean,
that's what we assist you with is we help you remove those things based off of the laws.
And then obviously the credit card debt, that's obviously a huge, huge, huge issue.
And don't get me started on that. It's like a whole other day of conversation.
But the debt is a major, major issue. 30% of your credit score comes from how
(15:32):
you manage your credit card. So if you have high utilization,
you're going to plateau.
So you have nothing negative on the credit report. And so you're maxed out on
all your credit cards. You're really going to plateau around the 620 range.
You won't get past it. You just won't. So...
People need to know. But the solve to that is paying off the debt. Paying off the debt.
Or taking out more credit cards so your utilization rate is lower.
(15:56):
That's the worst thing you can do. The opinions of Michael Kahn is not necessarily the opinion.
We have to do more debt. More debt. No. We have to do one of these a podcast. It's no big deal.
I do a disclaimer. disclaimer.
Very, very, very good. What are, tell me, there's got to be some common myths
(16:19):
out there that people believe that you're really good at busting.
What are some common credit myths?
Absolutely. So I think one of my biggest ones, and I actually,
I had this conversation with my husband the other day and it's,
I can fix my credit on my own.
And I'm like, no, you really really can't. There's those anomalies, of course.
But it's like me, like, see, I have like these beautiful blonde highlights.
(16:41):
I'd be like me trying to put these blonde highlights in my hair.
Are you kidding me? Like, I would have fried my head.
You know, like, it's just there's so many mistakes that people make when they're
trying to repair it on their own. And it costs them exorbitant amounts of time.
And people have to constantly think is what is the time worth.
And I was reading a great book the other day. And I actually I posted about it.
But the CEO next door, they talk talk about that under pressure,
(17:05):
you don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.
And we have, I spend thousands and thousands of hours in training and my team,
and we've helped people,
thousands of people help their files and situations that we've seen thousands
of scenarios and we know how to handle each one and we know how to rebuttal.
(17:26):
The bureaus and the creditors are no joke.
There's a reason why credit repair companies exist.
So I think one One of the biggest things that there's this misconception,
oh, I can just do it on my own and it's gonna be so simple and so easy.
I'm gonna be done in three months.
And we're just like, you have no idea the mountain that you're trying to climb
because things have gotten harder and harder and harder as the bureaus have
gotten busier and busier and busier.
(17:47):
And I think that's one of the biggest ones. And the other one is that credit repair doesn't work.
People think that credit repair doesn't work. And it's simply because it's like,
I consider it to the weight loss journey.
You know, people will put in two weeks towards a weight loss program and be
like, it didn't work. And it's like, well, what did you eat when you left the gym?
Well, you know, it's and it's the same thing with credit restoration.
(18:07):
They don't put the necessary time in for it to work.
So everything great, you have to put in the necessary time in order for it to
work. And so in our business, persistence really does overcome resistance.
So those are, I think, some of the top two. I mean, there's probably like 30
more that I could give you, but for now, we'll keep it at those two. Sure. Okay.
(18:27):
I like the fact that Micah did, of all the analogies she could have done,
she chose a hair analogy and highlights.
And Micah and I are just nodding our heads like, yeah, no, of course. Yeah, we know that.
I've been thinking about getting dressed for men for my beard to get rid of
some of the grays. maybe I should hire a professional.
(18:51):
Listen, if everybody can see this hair, this is some good hair.
The hair is amazing. I've got good hair. The hair is amazing.
Absolutely. It's my signature. Everybody knows.
No, but I think that's really great. I also think about landlords and trying
to evict their own tenants.
It's like just hire the attorney. Absolutely.
It's not that expensive. They do a much better job. A lot of these fixes or
(19:16):
repairs, whether it's credit or
evicting a tenant or doing a real estate transaction, it doesn't matter.
A lot of it comes down to details and timing and consistency.
And you can find yourself starting the process over. You can find yourself just
not getting results because you're not staying on top of it.
And I understand that not everybody is in a position where they can hire a professional
(19:38):
like yourself or an attorney, but definitely consider it. it might be some of
the best money, best money spent.
Absolutely. Well, even to a kid into our business, you know,
I mean, it's just like a for sale by owner.
How many times have we stepped in where there's someone trying to sell their
house by themselves and it's very easy to fix.
It's just, they don't do it every day. We do it all the time.
And it's like, well, this is why it's not selling. Yes.
(20:02):
So I just needed to give an analogy that was something besides a hair. Understood.
Excellent. Excellent. So-
Who benefits from a credit repair company? Is it just the people with bad credit?
No, not always. I mean, listen, if you're just even trying to get to the next
tier, so even if you're just trying to go from like, let's say like a 720 to
(20:24):
that 760, 780 range, I mean, the savings are astronomical.
People have no idea, you know, the difference between tier to tier.
And I break down in all my classes how much the savings really do add up to.
So say Say you're even at a 620 range, 620 to a 760. I know that's a big jump, 140 points,
but that, just to give you a quick example, so in the state of New York,
(20:45):
on average, let's say you get a $450,000 loan,
on average, just going from a 620 to a 740, it's gonna save you $500 a month just on interest,
just on interest, over a 30-year time period.
Say you never refinance that home and you stay at that 620, that's $190,000
in interest you will save if you fix your credit and go from the 620 to the 760 range, 740 range.
(21:11):
So it's something that people just say, really have no idea how much it's actually costing them.
So we tell people, if you are not in premium tiers, which is right,
the 760 to 780, absolutely.
If you've ever had anything negative hit your credit report.
And that's the biggest misconception is people think, oh, well, I had a late payment.
You know, how bad could it be? I'm like, how bad it could be is it could drop
your score as much as 180 points.
(21:32):
And it's going to stay on the report for seven seven years, seven and cause damage.
So if you've ever had anything negative pitch your credit report,
that's when a credit repair specialist needs to come into play. Love it. Wow.
Love it. All right. Mic drop?
Well, you came in saying that you had a passion for this.
(21:53):
Boy, do you. And a lot of energy. I have a ton of energy.
It's honestly my gift. Well, I mean, I'm just thinking about that $190,000.
That's an enormous amount of interest. And that's just on the home loan on a $450,000 home.
We're talking car loans, personal loans, you know, credit cards.
All of this can be car insurance, all of this dating, you know,
who you get to marry it's so funny
(22:15):
it's like you have to fill out an application now and they're going to run
your credit fingerprint you before i can take you out to chick-fil-a in a movie
it's crazy yeah yeah a hundred percent yeah i take that's where you're gonna
take me yep yep that's right you heard it here chick-fil-a in a movie just kidding
like you also apologize to ladies ladies out there.
(22:39):
Oh man. When you're married, that's a great date.
It's just away from the kids and you're just living the good life.
Listen, you can't hate on Chick-fil-A.
I would choose Chipotle over Chick-fil-A, but Hey, that's just me. Love it.
All right. So you already alluded to one of the things that separates you from
(23:00):
other credit repair companies, but what is, is what is your differentiating factor?
What makes you different than other companies out there? Why would somebody
want to talk to you as opposed to just Googling credit repair and going with
the first name that pops up on Google, assuming that it's not you,
it might be, but you know, what separates you from the rest of the pack?
There's so much. And I don't even know where to begin sometimes. So.
(23:23):
I think the ethical side, the ethical. And we all share the same affinity for
credit, credit repair, the love for our clients. And it comes through in every conversation.
We implemented regular follow-up. So I worked, I mean, obviously you heard my story in the beginning.
I came from a very large firm and one of the biggest things I learned from them,
right? Sometimes you just learn what not to do to make things better.
(23:44):
And I noticed the lack of follow-up. I think the biggest problem people always
have when they enroll in credit restoration is, hey, I'm enrolled in this program,
but I have no idea what's going on from the people who send them over to the
people who are in the program.
And it's constant, constant, constant follow-up because we realize that this
is not a normal everyday conversation.
This is not something that people understand how it works or what to do.
(24:07):
And so we realize and understand a little more hand-holding has to go into working
with these clients. And we really embrace that.
And our partners, our goal is to help all of our partners, yourselves, right?
People that I work with to help their clients get to the closing table. That's the goal.
So everybody needs to be well informed through the process.
(24:29):
So because we partner with the mortgage industry, I mean, being in the business,
as long as I have, I can walk into any office from 11 years ago and I still
have a wonderful relationship with that company.
And that's what it's all about. It's relationships, relationships, relationships.
I'm not like a wham bam, thank you, ma'am, where I know a lot lot of companies
are that way, you know, I don't think that you can just burn a bridge and it's
okay, like you can't, you know, so we're really all about our partnerships.
(24:52):
And I think that's what really separates us all of our clientele,
they all come from referrals, you know, it's not like, you know,
it's not a cold call or anything like that.
It's just it's a warm referral, someone needs our assistance,
they know who we are, they know what we do.
And it really, we really have the absolute best service, we spend so many man
hours training on service, Service, service, service, service, service.
(25:15):
Like people should never question what they pay us because they're like,
wow, what astounding service, right?
I love it. And you have great hair. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. I listen.
All right. If somebody wanted to get in touch with you, Micah,
they wanted to work on their credit, whether it's getting from a 480 to a 680 or a 720 to a 780.
(25:39):
How are they getting in touch with you? Absolutely.
So you can always go to our website, which is just www.micahabigail,
A-B-I-G-A-I-L. And Micah is spelled like a guy, M-I-C-A-H, so www.micahabigail.com.
So you go here and you can request more information to sign up and one of my
(26:01):
team members will be in contact immediately.
You can always call us directly at 516-377-6053 and we would love to hear from you.
You can email us as well as at info at micahabigailcs.com.
Awesome. Fantastic. Fantastic. Mike, I really appreciate you coming down and
(26:21):
talking to our audience about this today. I think it's a super important topic.
I think credit, you know, I didn't know about the dating thing,
but I always knew credit was the key to financial freedom, right?
It's the key to, you know, just like a pleasant life essentially, right?
To achieving your dreams and achieving your goals, you have to have credit. It's so important.
(26:43):
And I think there's a lot of people out there that are working on their credit
but could use that extra help and hopefully they reach out to you and can get
on their path to financial freedom.
And if you get to be in a room with Micah doing this, you'll see that her energy
is absolutely infectious as well. So that's helpful.
Thank you. I appreciate that so much.
Tremendous. Thank you. All right. Thank you. In the meantime,
(27:04):
everybody, thank you so much for tuning in.
Looking forward to future podcasts. We've got a great lineup coming for you.
This is Michael Kahn's Rick Brescia, Hudson Valley Real Estate Explained.
Wherever you're listening to this, drop us a five-star review and leave us some notes.
Music.
Welcome to Hudson Valley's Real Estate Explained, your getaway to understanding real estate.
Whether you're buying your first home, an experienced investor,
or just real estate curious, this is the place for you.
So dive in with us as we unravel the intricacies of property deals and investment
strategies guided by industry experts.
We're demystifying Hudson Valley real estate together.
(00:26):
Let's go. And welcome back to another episode of Hudson in Valley Real Estate
Explained. I'm your host, Michael Kahn, and I'm joined today with my co-host,
Mr. Rick Brescia. How are you?
Wonderful. Thanks, Mike. Welcome back, everybody.
Excellent. So today, this will be released later, but today is a special day.
It's the day after the solar eclipse and it is 73 degrees and somehow we are
(00:48):
in a vault recording a podcast as opposed to being out there,
but bringing valuable content to you is important to us.
So here we are And we have a very special guest with us today.
Today is all about credit, not just credit repair, but understanding credit
at a deeper level. And we brought in Micah Smith.
She's owner of Micah Abigail Credit Solutions.
(01:10):
Micah, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.
Absolutely. We're thrilled to have you here. I know credit's on a lot of people's
mind, whether you're a first-time home buyer or an investor or even a seller, right?
You want to understand credit and how it impacts everything in your life, but also real estate.
But before we dive into that, tell us, you're a bit of an expert on credit and credit repair.
(01:32):
Tell us a little bit about how you got here and what made you start this organization?
I will make it short and to the
point. So I've actually been in the credit space for about 11 11 years.
And I was recruited into a very large firm. They were based out of Colorado,
which is actually where I'm originally from, born and raised.
And so I worked for this big firm for a long time.
(01:55):
And about three and a half years ago, I saw the writing on the wall.
And I'm like, I have to do this. I have an obsession with this very topic.
And I've been teaching coast to coast. And you're going to find that my affinity
for credit repair is very odd.
And so I saw the writing on the wall.
And I'm like, I have to start my own firm. So I started laying the groundwork
(02:15):
and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on education, man hours,
learning the back end of credit repair and opening up a firm in New York,
did the first year pro bono.
And then the last two and a half years, we've been open to the public and it's
been going swimmingly. That's awesome.
Thank you. That's fantastic.
So your firm essentially helps people understand their credit and improve their
(02:39):
credit scores so that they can, you know, take advantage of everything that
credit has to offer them. Correct?
Exactly. We want to give them buying power. So let's, let's dive right into that.
What, why is your, let's start very, very basic, but in a more detailed sense,
we all know credit's important because if you want to buy a car,
you're probably going to need credit, but let's
(02:59):
peel back a few layers of the onion. Why is having good credit so important?
Absolutely. So we believe it's a cornerstone to your overall financial health.
Credit is a true reflection of your financial health.
It impacts every aspect of your life from jobs that you can have to now they
have even dating apps where it's going to be exclusive to who you can date based
(03:23):
off of your credit score.
So it's- Is that, hold on, is that really a thing? It's really a thing.
It's unbelievable where not having a great credit score can hinder you in more
ways than you ever thought possible, from the people you date to the cars you
drive to how much you pay for insurance, your utility bills.
It's literally attached to every little thing. And now it's going to potentially
be attached to who you can and can't date.
(03:45):
To your love life. so mike and i didn't know that because
this would be a good time to do this plug because we're so
incredibly happily married that we would not know
that i mean yes not to each other but but we
are married and and you know we we wouldn't know that right listen i'm happily
married as well but i have to stay abreast of these things that come into play
right yeah you're not trying to suck up to your partner through a podcast though
(04:10):
too shy too shy absolutely fascinating i had no idea had had that much of an impact.
Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy, right? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. So, so obviously there's something that needs to be considered across the board.
When somebody comes into your organization and says, Hey, you know, I need some help.
What does that look like? Walk me through the process of getting somebody from,
(04:33):
you know, just knocking on your door to credit healthy, where they can go on
any dating app they want. Yes, absolutely.
So the first thing we do with every client is we do what's called a soft pull tri-merge.
So a soft pull simply means it doesn't impact the credit score in a negative
way, but we're pulling credit reports that are going to give you a full 10-year history.
So we can see everything that's going on, positive, negative,
(04:54):
what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong.
And we want to set you up with realistic expectations. We're going to set you
up with a roadmap as far as how you're going to be successful in our program.
So whether it's a five-month plan, a one-year plan, whatever it may be,
we're going to set you up so that you have a realistic expectations as far as
how our program works, right? What you can do better.
And then they understand what it is that we're going to be assisting with.
(05:16):
And again, we assist with the repair, which most people don't understand what that is.
We can go into that, but we give them a very clear roadmap.
But first things first, we always look at that credit report because that tells us the entire story.
So what's the goal? Just to get a better score?
For some people, but we want to be as specific usually as possible.
So my business is really geared towards, so all of my partners are lenders,
(05:39):
real estate agents, brokers, investors.
So that's my, those are my partners. And so, you know, partnering with like,
for instance, like Kai, who's here in the, in the office with us.
Right. So when he is a client that needs assistance, he's like,
Micah, we got to get this person to a 640 because we're trying to do this type
of loan and we need it to be here.
And by this time, and can you make it happen? That kind of a thing.
So the more specific they are, obviously, the better.
(05:59):
And the goal is to obviously on our end, we want to get them into premium tiers
long term. So there's usually short term and long term goals.
So it's really our goal for them is always to get them into premium tiers.
So they're saving as much money as possible. Absolutely. 760 to 780.
Well, you're mentioning calls, sorry, not calls, but numbers 760,
(06:21):
780, are all credit scores the same?
Like, for instance, I heard a rumor that not all scores are the same.
Yes. So really what it comes down to is where do you pull your score from?
So what people don't realize is that there are hundreds of algorithms that they
use to calculate your score.
(06:41):
So one of the biggest myths that I debunk in all of my seminars is credit karma
versus everybody else because everybody uses credit karma as like the end-all
be-all and that's not how it works.
Credit karma is what we call a vantage scoring model.
So it's oftentimes, so say you pull your score with a lender in the mortgage
world, that credit karma score on average is going to be about 40 to 60 points
(07:03):
higher than what a lender will see.
And it's because it's just simply a different algorithm that they use to calculate
the score. So the one big thing that I want everyone to know is that whoever
pulls your score, that's your score with them and them alone.
Scores are not transferable. So if you go get a card, that's your score with
them. If you're looking at your bank, your bank.
Card or your bank score app, right? That's your score with them.
(07:24):
If you're looking at credit karma, that's your score with them.
You go to a mortgage lender, that's your score with them. They're not transferable,
but you usually see different scores from pole to pole to pole to pole.
So how does that happen, right? Because, I mean, we have the exact same credit history.
If we go and apply different places, are they just putting different weightings
on different things in your credit?
Exactly. It's the algorithm. That's my favorite word, the algorithm.
(07:45):
Yep. That's all that it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's that fancy mathematical equation. equation.
So like, for instance, to show off a little bit, like the mortgage industry
uses Beacon 5.0, Farisic version 2, Classico 4.
Those are the names of the algorithms that are used in the mortgage industry
versus say you go to Credit Karma, they're using Vantage 3.0, right?
Mortgage industry is coming up with new algorithms. We've got Vantage 4.0,
then you get the car industry, there's like FICO 2, FICO 8, FICO 9,
(08:09):
you've got FICO 10, FICO 10 T plus.
I mean, there's so many. So many different ways to analyze the same information.
Yes, yes. So it's pretty mind boggling.
That's fascinating. And I've seen Vantage in several places.
I think that's one that a lot of the banks probably use when I pull up like
a Chase or a TG or something like that. And, you know, say your Vantage credit score.
(08:32):
Yes, some of them do. Some use Vantage. Yeah. Most of them use FICO.
Most. But yeah, Vantage does get used by some bank cards. Absolutely.
Yes. Very, very interesting. Yeah.
So obviously we need to get our credit. it.
If let's, let's talk for a first-time home buyer that's thinking about buying
a home in your professional understanding, where do they need to be from a credit
(08:56):
score to get the best possible outcome for their home buying?
760 to 780. You don't get any better rate past that point. So anything past
that is bragging rights. That's it.
That's excellent. So 760, 780, how on, on how many people are actually up in that range right now?
Like, do you have, Do you have any idea on like the general population who has what credit scores?
(09:19):
Very few. It's very, very few. I actually don't even know because the statistics
are not up to date. So I can really only see statistics from even like a couple of years ago.
So my speculation is, is that scores seemingly seem to be dropping lower and
lower and as a result of COVID.
And so it's, I don't know who's in those premium tiers. My husband,
myself, and a few other people.
(09:40):
Not that many. My team.
Well, that's good. Yeah. As they should be. As they should be, yeah.
So let's say you have less than perfect credit and you're going to buy a home.
Would you recommend, I guess it depends on you're looking at the credit history,
would you take a look at that with somebody and say, hey, we can fix this in
(10:02):
60 days so that you can get a higher credit score and get a better interest
rate? Is that a service that you offer?
Yes. So when we look at the credit report, so one of the biggest things that
credit repair is not supposed to do is we're not legally supposed to give someone
timeframes because there's too many variables that could potentially impact the credit score.
So we don't usually ever give anyone a definitive time frame.
We give them the potential possibility that something could happen,
(10:25):
you know, within 30 days. So each round of investigations.
So when we're going after a negative item, right, the bureaus,
the creditors, they have 30 days to conduct a full investigation and respond back to the client.
So we let them know, hey, there's a 30-day time frame and hopefully we see something
within that amount of time.
But we don't ever give them a definitive time frame because legally we're not allowed to.
Got it. But a lot of repair companies do just to make a sale.
(10:48):
And that's what's really disheartening.
Yeah, I can imagine that's a complicated thing to put an actual date on. It is.
But people are very happy when they see results after 30 days because it happens all the time.
Love it. A lot of our listeners are investors too, and we work a lot with investors.
And I imagine that a business line of credit differs from your personal line
(11:11):
of credit. Does your personal line of credit differ?
Or not line of credit, but does your personal credit score affect your ability
to get business credit? Like what's the, how does that work? Absolutely.
And that's one of the biggest things that, and we didn't even cover that when
you said, what does it impact? Like also your business.
So if you're trying to get business credit, they're absolutely going to ask
you initially for that personal guarantee because you're not established yet.
(11:31):
So that personal guarantee, if you have bad personal credit,
then it's obviously going to be a much slower route to building that business credit.
And so you're not going to get approved for the creme de la creme,
when you're trying to establish that business credit, but there are options
for people with low credit scores, just like there are with personal.
There are a lot of options for low personal scores, but it's going to cost you
more. Everything will cost you more.
(11:52):
And that's what it comes down to. So the riskier you look on paper,
the more it's going to cost you. Got it.
Now, if you take out a business line of credit, does that help your,
I mean, you ran your personal credit to have a guarantee.
If you take out a business line of credit, does that help your personal credit as well or no?
It does not. So here's the one thing. So what people don't realize,
(12:13):
and it gets very convoluted very, very quickly.
But so for instance, when you open up business trade lines, and I'm going to
keep it super simple, but say you open up a Capital One credit card,
a business credit card, it's going to report to your personal credit.
So it's not just going to report to your business. Whereas say you open up a
Chase credit card, it's only going to report to your EIN and to your business credit.
So if you default on the Chase credit credit card, then it reports to your personal,
(12:34):
therefore causing major catastrophe.
And then the capital one that reports to your personal, what you don't want
there is a lot of times business owners are racking up large amounts of debt.
And you don't want that reporting to your personal credit because that hurts your utilization.
So credit cards, high utilization brings down the credit score.
So ideally, you want to know which ones report to personal, which ones don't,
(12:55):
because otherwise you can cause absolute harm.
But it does not impact you in a a positive way on your personal credit once
you have something open in your business.
Got it. Very interesting. Yeah. So...
If somebody really wanted to analyze their credit, what are the things they
should be? Where do they start?
So the first place you want to start is credit reports, right?
(13:17):
So the credit and they make them. Credit karma?
No. So, I mean, there's so many services out there that offer credit reports.
So the ones we use, so we use a company called GetFitCredit.com and they use
a Vantage 3.0 model as well, but it's a very easy credit report to read.
And it's something that we go, that's what we use for all of our clients.
(13:41):
But there's a lot of resources out there.
I would also say, so you can go to myannualreport.com. You're entitled to one
free credit report a year from the credit bureaus, but I'm gonna tell you this.
If you're looking at those reports, they're extremely confusing.
So you're gonna be very, very overwhelmed.
So that's why we like the getfitcredit.com or even like myfico.com.
It's a great resource because they're gonna give you access to like over 20 different algorithms.
(14:04):
And so you'll be able to see your mortgage scores. You can see your auto loan scores.
You can see so many different scores based off of, and it's a hundred percent accurate.
So my FICO is great. It's a lot to go through, but if you take the time,
you can actually see what your real scores are depending on what you're looking for at the time.
Very interesting. Very interesting. Mike, I just had a quick question.
(14:25):
When people come in to you generally, is there something that's the usual biggest problem?
Like you can see it's either like, you know, people just rack up credit cards
or, you know, like, is there something that's, I don't want to say a standard
by any means, but like you know to look for immediately like,
oh, I could see what's driving them down. Sure.
(14:46):
So when I teach my classes with my lenders, one of the biggest things we look
at on their credit reports is we see factor codes.
So the factor codes is actually it's
going to determine what it is that's impacting the score most to least.
So, you know, either it's going to be negative items or it's going to be debt.
And I would say, you know, it's 75% of the time negative items and 25% of the
time it's going to be, you know, the credit card debt.
(15:08):
So, you know, obviously the repair, we're helping with the negative items.
So if you've had late payments, collections, charge-offs, I mean,
that's what we assist you with is we help you remove those things based off of the laws.
And then obviously the credit card debt, that's obviously a huge, huge, huge issue.
And don't get me started on that. It's like a whole other day of conversation.
But the debt is a major, major issue. 30% of your credit score comes from how
(15:32):
you manage your credit card. So if you have high utilization,
you're going to plateau.
So you have nothing negative on the credit report. And so you're maxed out on
all your credit cards. You're really going to plateau around the 620 range.
You won't get past it. You just won't. So...
People need to know. But the solve to that is paying off the debt. Paying off the debt.
Or taking out more credit cards so your utilization rate is lower.
(15:56):
That's the worst thing you can do. The opinions of Michael Kahn is not necessarily the opinion.
We have to do more debt. More debt. No. We have to do one of these a podcast. It's no big deal.
I do a disclaimer. disclaimer.
Very, very, very good. What are, tell me, there's got to be some common myths
(16:19):
out there that people believe that you're really good at busting.
What are some common credit myths?
Absolutely. So I think one of my biggest ones, and I actually,
I had this conversation with my husband the other day and it's,
I can fix my credit on my own.
And I'm like, no, you really really can't. There's those anomalies, of course.
But it's like me, like, see, I have like these beautiful blonde highlights.
(16:41):
I'd be like me trying to put these blonde highlights in my hair.
Are you kidding me? Like, I would have fried my head.
You know, like, it's just there's so many mistakes that people make when they're
trying to repair it on their own. And it costs them exorbitant amounts of time.
And people have to constantly think is what is the time worth.
And I was reading a great book the other day. And I actually I posted about it.
But the CEO next door, they talk talk about that under pressure,
(17:05):
you don't rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.
And we have, I spend thousands and thousands of hours in training and my team,
and we've helped people,
thousands of people help their files and situations that we've seen thousands
of scenarios and we know how to handle each one and we know how to rebuttal.
(17:26):
The bureaus and the creditors are no joke.
There's a reason why credit repair companies exist.
So I think one One of the biggest things that there's this misconception,
oh, I can just do it on my own and it's gonna be so simple and so easy.
I'm gonna be done in three months.
And we're just like, you have no idea the mountain that you're trying to climb
because things have gotten harder and harder and harder as the bureaus have
gotten busier and busier and busier.
(17:47):
And I think that's one of the biggest ones. And the other one is that credit repair doesn't work.
People think that credit repair doesn't work. And it's simply because it's like,
I consider it to the weight loss journey.
You know, people will put in two weeks towards a weight loss program and be
like, it didn't work. And it's like, well, what did you eat when you left the gym?
Well, you know, it's and it's the same thing with credit restoration.
(18:07):
They don't put the necessary time in for it to work.
So everything great, you have to put in the necessary time in order for it to
work. And so in our business, persistence really does overcome resistance.
So those are, I think, some of the top two. I mean, there's probably like 30
more that I could give you, but for now, we'll keep it at those two. Sure. Okay.
(18:27):
I like the fact that Micah did, of all the analogies she could have done,
she chose a hair analogy and highlights.
And Micah and I are just nodding our heads like, yeah, no, of course. Yeah, we know that.
I've been thinking about getting dressed for men for my beard to get rid of
some of the grays. maybe I should hire a professional.
(18:51):
Listen, if everybody can see this hair, this is some good hair.
The hair is amazing. I've got good hair. The hair is amazing.
Absolutely. It's my signature. Everybody knows.
No, but I think that's really great. I also think about landlords and trying
to evict their own tenants.
It's like just hire the attorney. Absolutely.
It's not that expensive. They do a much better job. A lot of these fixes or
(19:16):
repairs, whether it's credit or
evicting a tenant or doing a real estate transaction, it doesn't matter.
A lot of it comes down to details and timing and consistency.
And you can find yourself starting the process over. You can find yourself just
not getting results because you're not staying on top of it.
And I understand that not everybody is in a position where they can hire a professional
(19:38):
like yourself or an attorney, but definitely consider it. it might be some of
the best money, best money spent.
Absolutely. Well, even to a kid into our business, you know,
I mean, it's just like a for sale by owner.
How many times have we stepped in where there's someone trying to sell their
house by themselves and it's very easy to fix.
It's just, they don't do it every day. We do it all the time.
And it's like, well, this is why it's not selling. Yes.
(20:02):
So I just needed to give an analogy that was something besides a hair. Understood.
Excellent. Excellent. So-
Who benefits from a credit repair company? Is it just the people with bad credit?
No, not always. I mean, listen, if you're just even trying to get to the next
tier, so even if you're just trying to go from like, let's say like a 720 to
(20:24):
that 760, 780 range, I mean, the savings are astronomical.
People have no idea, you know, the difference between tier to tier.
And I break down in all my classes how much the savings really do add up to.
So say Say you're even at a 620 range, 620 to a 760. I know that's a big jump, 140 points,
but that, just to give you a quick example, so in the state of New York,
(20:45):
on average, let's say you get a $450,000 loan,
on average, just going from a 620 to a 740, it's gonna save you $500 a month just on interest,
just on interest, over a 30-year time period.
Say you never refinance that home and you stay at that 620, that's $190,000
in interest you will save if you fix your credit and go from the 620 to the 760 range, 740 range.
(21:11):
So it's something that people just say, really have no idea how much it's actually costing them.
So we tell people, if you are not in premium tiers, which is right,
the 760 to 780, absolutely.
If you've ever had anything negative hit your credit report.
And that's the biggest misconception is people think, oh, well, I had a late payment.
You know, how bad could it be? I'm like, how bad it could be is it could drop
your score as much as 180 points.
(21:32):
And it's going to stay on the report for seven seven years, seven and cause damage.
So if you've ever had anything negative pitch your credit report,
that's when a credit repair specialist needs to come into play. Love it. Wow.
Love it. All right. Mic drop?
Well, you came in saying that you had a passion for this.
(21:53):
Boy, do you. And a lot of energy. I have a ton of energy.
It's honestly my gift. Well, I mean, I'm just thinking about that $190,000.
That's an enormous amount of interest. And that's just on the home loan on a $450,000 home.
We're talking car loans, personal loans, you know, credit cards.
All of this can be car insurance, all of this dating, you know,
who you get to marry it's so funny
(22:15):
it's like you have to fill out an application now and they're going to run
your credit fingerprint you before i can take you out to chick-fil-a in a movie
it's crazy yeah yeah a hundred percent yeah i take that's where you're gonna
take me yep yep that's right you heard it here chick-fil-a in a movie just kidding
like you also apologize to ladies ladies out there.
(22:39):
Oh man. When you're married, that's a great date.
It's just away from the kids and you're just living the good life.
Listen, you can't hate on Chick-fil-A.
I would choose Chipotle over Chick-fil-A, but Hey, that's just me. Love it.
All right. So you already alluded to one of the things that separates you from
(23:00):
other credit repair companies, but what is, is what is your differentiating factor?
What makes you different than other companies out there? Why would somebody
want to talk to you as opposed to just Googling credit repair and going with
the first name that pops up on Google, assuming that it's not you,
it might be, but you know, what separates you from the rest of the pack?
There's so much. And I don't even know where to begin sometimes. So.
(23:23):
I think the ethical side, the ethical. And we all share the same affinity for
credit, credit repair, the love for our clients. And it comes through in every conversation.
We implemented regular follow-up. So I worked, I mean, obviously you heard my story in the beginning.
I came from a very large firm and one of the biggest things I learned from them,
right? Sometimes you just learn what not to do to make things better.
(23:44):
And I noticed the lack of follow-up. I think the biggest problem people always
have when they enroll in credit restoration is, hey, I'm enrolled in this program,
but I have no idea what's going on from the people who send them over to the
people who are in the program.
And it's constant, constant, constant follow-up because we realize that this
is not a normal everyday conversation.
This is not something that people understand how it works or what to do.
(24:07):
And so we realize and understand a little more hand-holding has to go into working
with these clients. And we really embrace that.
And our partners, our goal is to help all of our partners, yourselves, right?
People that I work with to help their clients get to the closing table. That's the goal.
So everybody needs to be well informed through the process.
(24:29):
So because we partner with the mortgage industry, I mean, being in the business,
as long as I have, I can walk into any office from 11 years ago and I still
have a wonderful relationship with that company.
And that's what it's all about. It's relationships, relationships, relationships.
I'm not like a wham bam, thank you, ma'am, where I know a lot lot of companies
are that way, you know, I don't think that you can just burn a bridge and it's
okay, like you can't, you know, so we're really all about our partnerships.
(24:52):
And I think that's what really separates us all of our clientele,
they all come from referrals, you know, it's not like, you know,
it's not a cold call or anything like that.
It's just it's a warm referral, someone needs our assistance,
they know who we are, they know what we do.
And it really, we really have the absolute best service, we spend so many man
hours training on service, Service, service, service, service, service.
(25:15):
Like people should never question what they pay us because they're like,
wow, what astounding service, right?
I love it. And you have great hair. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. I listen.
All right. If somebody wanted to get in touch with you, Micah,
they wanted to work on their credit, whether it's getting from a 480 to a 680 or a 720 to a 780.
(25:39):
How are they getting in touch with you? Absolutely.
So you can always go to our website, which is just www.micahabigail,
A-B-I-G-A-I-L. And Micah is spelled like a guy, M-I-C-A-H, so www.micahabigail.com.
So you go here and you can request more information to sign up and one of my
(26:01):
team members will be in contact immediately.
You can always call us directly at 516-377-6053 and we would love to hear from you.
You can email us as well as at info at micahabigailcs.com.
Awesome. Fantastic. Fantastic. Mike, I really appreciate you coming down and
(26:21):
talking to our audience about this today. I think it's a super important topic.
I think credit, you know, I didn't know about the dating thing,
but I always knew credit was the key to financial freedom, right?
It's the key to, you know, just like a pleasant life essentially, right?
To achieving your dreams and achieving your goals, you have to have credit. It's so important.
(26:43):
And I think there's a lot of people out there that are working on their credit
but could use that extra help and hopefully they reach out to you and can get
on their path to financial freedom.
And if you get to be in a room with Micah doing this, you'll see that her energy
is absolutely infectious as well. So that's helpful.
Thank you. I appreciate that so much.
Tremendous. Thank you. All right. Thank you. In the meantime,
(27:04):
everybody, thank you so much for tuning in.
Looking forward to future podcasts. We've got a great lineup coming for you.
This is Michael Kahn's Rick Brescia, Hudson Valley Real Estate Explained.
Wherever you're listening to this, drop us a five-star review and leave us some notes.
Music.
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