Georgia Smith-Marr: Finding the intersections of culture, tech, and classism

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
But then if you were technology class,you'd have to spoil the American dream.

(00:04):
Hello.
Hello.
And welcome back to the I'm lost.
So what podcast, this is your host,Cassandra Le, and I am super excited for
you all to tune into today's conversationwith our very own podcast coordinator,
Georgia Smith-Marr Georgia is a writerfocused on the intersection of tech.
culture and fashion.
She's the founder of a portal inbetween a newsletter that focuses

(00:25):
on these intersections and howthey converge on spaces online.
She wants to let you all knowthat she is not thriving under
capitalism and wishes to opt out.
I'm super excited for this conversationbecause Georgia is the person who
is behind the scenes of the podcastdoing all of the background work
like editing and making sure thateverything sounds silky smooth.
And I'm really excited for her tobe joining and sharing all of the

(00:48):
things that we talk about on a normal.
day to day basis throughall of our messages.
In this podcast episode, we'll be coveringthings like pop culture, technology,
classism, and really diving intocritical thinking and media literacy.
Before you dive into this episode, Ido want to share a content warning.

(01:12):
We talk about racism,patriarchy, and classism.
And, um, yeah.
Let's just get into it.
Georgia's got a lot to share andI'm excited for you all to listen.
Hello?
Hello everyone.
I'm Cassandra Lei and you'relistening to I'm Lost.
So what the podcast exploring betweenbelonging and Carving your own path

(01:33):
for all the peeps out there who kindof know what you're doing, but still
question what the fuck is going on?
Yeah, I'm with you.
Welcome to the podcast.
I'm super excited to have you here.
I'm excited to be here slash slightlynervous, terrified, shitting it.
Ah, love it.
You know, love the honesty.
But I'm also super excited for theconversation, even if you'll be

(01:54):
shitting through it most of the time.
I'm excited too.
Okay.
I'm sure it'll like, you know,dissipate as we go through or not.
You'd think that, but no.
Okay.
No.
All right then.
That's totally fine.
So, let's just get into it.
The first question I always ask guests,uh, before we dive into all of the

(02:17):
other things that we talk about is,what does being lost mean to you?
And can you describe thefeeling of being lost?
I think, like, the first thing thatcomes into my mind is physically.
Like, I don't know if you've ever been toa building with a north and south tower.
That's hard.
I get lost.
Like, you-
I don't know what anorth and south tower is.

(02:39):
So basically
it's like a British thing?
No, it's like, Idiscovered it in Colombia.
I've never come across this inthe UK, but basically there's
like two sets of elevators.
Um, one goes to the north, one goesto the south and say like, you could
go to like the 11th floor, but ifyou're meant to be in the south and
you're in the north, you can't justcross a bridge or you can't just walk.

(03:00):
You have to go back down.
It's like a whole thing.
So it's like, it's like physically lost.
Like, or if you like, you know, don't haveGoogle maps, you're like physically lost.
But then there's also like, I don'tknow if it's spiritually or like, uh,
how do I say, like, personally or justin life or whatever you feel like lost,
like you're doing the wrong job, you'rewith the wrong friends, in the wrong
country, um, like, not just like location,but just like you feel like, you know.

(03:25):
Lost.
Directionless.
So I think there's different aspects.
You could be both.
I've been both.
I've been in both before.
Yeah.
So that's what lost is to me, I guess.
I love that.
And I love that you described itby using the North and South Tower.
So as soon as you described it and howit's like, oh, you have to take a certain
elevator, or as you would say, lift.

(03:47):
Thank you for using the word elevator.
I was going to say lift.
I know.
I was like But yeah, I mean, whenyou have to take a certain elevator
or like a certain route to get toa specific side of the building.
Yeah, that like, as soon as you saidthat, I was like, Oh my gosh, I totally
know the feeling because it's likeone lost physically, but then also

(04:10):
this frustration of did I just do?
And also, like, I don't know, like, ifyou were ever like a waitress, but I used
to like Yeah, it was a cheese bartender.
Okay, but that wasn't a place, right?
That was like in a place.
I used to go to like, I usedto do, I used to do events.
And this was like before GoogleMaps was like a really big thing.

(04:30):
And so I used to go all over like London.
And when I would get lost, which was everyevent, every single event I would get
lost, it would just, I would then spiralbeing like, why am I even doing this?
Why am I even here?
Like, this isn't the real job, like,I don't want to do this anymore.
Like, it would spiral my, like, internallostness because I was physically lost.
Oh my
gosh.
Oh my gosh, yeah, and Ifeel like that's so true.

(04:51):
Even in like, when we're talkingabout it from a, I guess the best
word that you used was directionless.
Like, when you get double lost.
Um, it's just like, I think exaggeratesthe feeling even more because then
you're just like, like, this is so dumb.
I can't believe I did this.

(05:12):
It's like when I make a decision thatI wasn't really sure about anyways,
and then I like hastily did it.
And then a dirt because of that decisionI made hastily, something else happens
like on the way to blah, blah, blah.
And then it like makes mereconsider everything where
I'm just like, this is so dumb.

(05:33):
I'm so dumb.
I can't believe I did this.
Like this is like punishment from theuniverse for not doing blah, blah, blah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I Yeah, no, yeah.
And I, and I, I know that I'm goingto have that feeling on Wednesday
because I have a dog's appointmentthat I've never been to before.
I know I'm going to get lost.
And I know that thesefeelings are going to come up.
Like what I do this time, Ishould have done this time.

(05:54):
I should have done better.
Like, why am I doing this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, let me know how that goes.
I hope, you know, you don't feelso lost or don't get as lost.
I'm prepared for it.
Like I'm fully prepared
for it.
And like, you're preparedfor the lostness.
Yeah, I'm, I've accepted it.
I do have anxiety about it though.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Well, I hope, I hope it's easy.

(06:15):
Thank you.
Let me get into the other questionsbecause there are lots of things
I want to cover about pop culture,about tech, about classism.
I feel like we always have lotsof different conversations on
various platforms, by the way.
At the same time.
Yeah.
Same time, like George and Iwill be talking on Instagram.
It'll be one conversation andthen we go into tick tock.

(06:36):
It'll be another conversation.
And then sometimes we'll belike emailing each other.
It's another one.
It's great.
Yeah.
Let me get into the pop culture stuffbecause I feel like anything, pop
culture, I am turning to you and like,yeah, and not even like surface level
pop culture, I'm talking about like.
Deep, deep pop culture stuff likeyou do so you send me some things

(06:58):
on Instagram and even like tick tockwhere I'm like, Oh, so to start it off.
Do you have a favorite pop culture moment?
That is like asking, a mother,like, who's your favorite child?
So I narrowed it down to four.
Okay, I'll take it.
The first one is, I thinkit's quite nostalgic.

(07:20):
It's the end of Friends, whichbasically was like a really big deal.
I feel like There hasn't beena TV show that has been as big.
And I remember that just beingeverywhere, even in the UK.
It was like specials on TV.
It was all over like themagazines and stuff like that.
So it's like my, my, my kind of firstmemory of pop culture being like a big
thing, like that pop culture moment.
But obviously last year with theSpitgate with Harry Styles and my

(07:44):
favorite Chris Pine, that was justthe most bizarre thing in the world.
That was just like the whole, the wholepress tour and the whole thing I could.
Like, literally, like, honestly, I'd wantto write a book about it, but I won't.
Then, um, I want to make this reference,but I feel like you, you haven't
seen The White Lotus, have you?
No.
Actually, when you were like,the ending of Friends, I was

(08:06):
like, you know, I actually havenever seen the ending of Friends.
I know, I
know.
But like, but like, it wasn't just theending of Friends, it was like a whole
closure so like yeah the tv you know allthe stations anyway it was a big deal but
the white lotus season two was just ohmy god and i'm not gonna say too much but
basically there's this late now she's likethese gays they're trying to murder me and

(08:27):
then it was just like it took over thiswhole thing on tiktok it was fantastic
And then obviously, Pedro Pascal, that'sjust a pop culture moment within itself.
Because like, I've been watchinghim since Game of Thrones.
And like, I've always loved him.
And I feel like he's finallygetting the attention he deserves.
I mean, in an interesting way.
Is it questionable?

(08:48):
Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like his recent stalker and everything.
That's quite like horrific.
Okay, so this is whereI go to get my news.
Yeah, Georgia fills me inon my pop culture news too.
Like, there's one thing to create, like,these, like, videos of him, like, great,
and, you know, and, like, celebratehim, that's great, I'm glad he's getting
all the attention, all the likes, allthe views, all the interviews, like, he

(09:10):
was on Graham Norton, that's, like, theUK's biggest interview, like, that's
such a big deal, like, even my mumtuned in to watch him, right, my mum
doesn't know anything, but basically,so, he, pre strike, he was filming
Gladiator 2 in Malta, somebody, a person.
I don't know who exactly.
By the way, we know thisbecause they wrote about it.

(09:30):
Um, flew from the Statesto America, to Malta.
So with their own money.
So whoever this is, they've gotmoney and they painted their nails.
Pedro Pascal's favorite color, whichI don't even know what that is.
I don't even, anyway, they wentto, because Malta, I guess,
isn't the world's biggest place.
So they knew, you know,where he was filming.
They went to the beach wherehe was usually like, where

(09:53):
he usually like hung out.
Kind of like went towards him andthe security guard had to stop.
And in the post, they were like, well,I guess I did all of that for nothing.
You don't even appreciate your fans.
And it's like, you literallyjust stalk someone.
You just stalk someone.
It's, yeah, yeah, so it's kind ofgone to like an on a hinge level.
Yeah, it's not nice.
But I'm glad he's gettingthe recognition he deserves.

(10:16):
Oh my gosh, okay, so it was
He's not a nepo baby, he's like anice guy, you've got to support that.
Can you describe what a nepo baby isfor the people who are listening who
might not know because I feel likethat is pure Gen Z speak from TikTok.
It's nepo is short for nepotism.
And obviously nepotism is where you getyour drop through a family and friends.

(10:38):
And recently, like it'salways been a thing.
I'm not gonna like, yeah,deny that in every industry.
No one's saying it's not.
But recently, it takes thecost of living is very high.
So to explore and do yourcreative things like acting,
it's, it's almost near impossible.
So like many children, nipple babiesare now actors and some of them good
and some of them need to be stopped.

(11:01):
Yeah.
So if you don't know what a nipple babyis, I actually didn't at first, I thought
all over TikTok and then I had to Googlebecause I was like, this makes sense.
I totally get it.
There's a name for it nowbecause it's such a big thing.
Yes.
It just, it just is.
Like I said, some of them are very good.
Some of them are not.
So on the contrary of your favoritepop culture moments, do you have

(11:24):
pop culture moments that have madeyou feel totally cringe or like,
Ooh, this is when I feel like.
society as a whole needs to takea moment and sit down and think
about what they've just done.
So, um, what you'rereferring to is The Ick?
Yes.
And I'm going to talk about a nepo baby.
Yeah, he's an Englishnipple baby, actually.

(11:45):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't think you're going to know him.
Matty Healy.
You know him?
Oh, wait.
Yes, yes.
You know his name.
I think I do know this person.
I have to Google after to like put a faceto the name, but I've heard that name.
So he is, um, the leadsinger of a band called 1975.
He is the child of,uh, two British actors.

(12:07):
He has said some horrific things.
Is he the one that's dating Taylor Swift?
We'll get there.
Okay.
This is like a whole process.
All right.
He said some horrific thingsthat I'm not going to repeat,
but everyone can look it up.
I actually wrote about itbecause it's like, it's not okay.
Against women, specifically women ofcolor, really just nasty, nasty stuff.
Then he dated Taylor Swift andpeople were either defending her.

(12:32):
being like well we all make mistakes andit was notably the white woman defending
her and then another group of her fansbasically wrote to her and it was like
a weird we're gonna put you in a britneyhold type of vibe if you don't so it
was really weird like again yeah i knowfans are unhinged right now and then

(12:52):
so basically they broke up whatever.
Taylor Swift has like nothing to do withthe actual moment I'm going to talk about,
but just like the timeline of it all.
So he went to Malaysia with this bandin 1975 to do a concert or something.
And basically he did not do hisresearch about the country or anything.
So they, when he got there,he basically, um, their LGBTQ

(13:13):
laws aren't, they're not great.
So he got up on stage, he criticizedthat, and then he kissed a man.
No, I did see this.
Why, yeah, this is, whyis this problematic?
Well, an English guy coming to anothercountry telling people how to do things.
Where have we heard this before?
Sounds like a very, uh,well played narrative.
Yeah.

(13:33):
So there's that, there's colonization.
And also many creators, people fromMalaysia, kind of took to TikTok being
like, this is all well and good for you.
You're going to leave, but thegovernment could crack down even harder.
on the community.
You've just, you know,screwed it up basically.
But there were many people like defendinghim saying it was like the right thing
to do and it was very cringy and yes.

(13:55):
Okay, so that takes me actually to mysecond question because you kind of
just like totally summarize the ick.
Is there something that you think all ofus who consume pop culture, which I think
is a lot of people, is there somethingthat we need to be more critical or aware
of within pop culture or I guess not.
Aware of because like that's consumingit, but after we consume it, is

(14:20):
there something that you thinkwe need to be more critical of?
Yes,
I don't know how to like expressthis coherently, but I guess is it
media literacy or critical thinking?
Like maybe both maybe maybe one orthe other because if you go on and
the thing is like I don't know if it'sif it's the speed that you can just
click on your phone and start recordingMaybe people used to think about it

(14:43):
more, maybe they didn't, I don't know.
But many things lack nuance, theylack taking a beat just to think about
it, and basically critical thinking.
So I don't know if you know who SydneySweeney is, and don't worry if you
don't.
Yes, I do.
You do?
Okay.
Yeah, she was the actress thatplayed Cassie in Euphoria.
Yeah.
So you watch Euphoria but not Mad Men?

(15:03):
No, I've never watched euphoria.
Um, I was, my heart was going to break.
No, no, no.
I've only watched, for all the peoplewho aren't listening, Georgia has
sent me plenty of memes and alsomessages, very direct way of being
like, you need to watch Mad Men.
I don't have a TV at all.
Um, Like, we don't have one in the house.
And then Mario and I, we don'thave any streaming platforms.

(15:27):
So I don't watch any series.
Just so the people who arelistening are like, what?
So I've only watched clips ofeverything on TikTok, everybody.
I only watch my TV shows, quoteunquote, through TikTok clips.
So that's how I knowwho Sydney Sweeney is.
My heart just brokeeven just hearing that.
No.
Okay.
So I, I actually know her fromseason one of White Lotus.

(15:48):
She was incredible, butshe's very much like a Gen Z.
Actress so she basically a few monthsago gave an interview saying like by
the time she pays her agents She paysfor like her house and blah blah blah
She barely makes any money and she gota lot of shit for that She got so much
shit people saying that she's spoiled.
She's out of touch blah blahblah Now a few months later
we cut to the writer's strike.

(16:09):
We're learning how little Theseactors actually get paid, right?
And I think at the time, I was like,why are people shitting on her?
Like, it costs a lotto be, um, an actress.
It costs a lot to live it.
And you have to live in LA.
Or I guess New York.
You, you, you kind of have no choice.
Um, I don't think shewas whining about it.

(16:29):
I think she was just stating afact, but no one took a beat.
No one kind of thought maybe becauseshe's new, she might not get paid a lot.
Or maybe if she doesn't havefamily money supporting her, then,
you know, she, she needs to liveon the little money she gets.
No one thought about that.
They just went online and criticized it.
And there's many like examples of this.
So I think just like critical thinking,media literacy, nuance, taking time.

(16:53):
Pop culture is very rapid,especially at this point in time.
And I think the same rules applyto pop culture as anything else.
Just take a minute and think people.
So question on the media literacy,how could somebody develop?
Damn, that's a good question.
In the same way that I would read ahistory source, who made the video?

(17:18):
If not, who made it?
Who is funding the video?
Um, do they have a notarial motive?
I don't mean like, you know, arethey going to take over the world?
No.
I mean, um, are they tryingto sell you something?
Like especially so many contentcreators and actresses and actors and
musicians, they don't make money fromthe actual art they make money from.

(17:39):
commercials and getting sponsored.
They are a brand, way more thancelebrities of the past, big or small.
Everyone's got a motive.
So I think the first thing is take,take a step, again, take a step back.
Who is making this?
Who's funding it?
Do they have something to gain?
Do they not?
I think asking these questions couldhelp guide you in the right direction.

(18:01):
Also following accountsthat break it down.
I do think, especially now, becauseof the way the internet is moving and
also just with like social media andwhat you were saying, like brands,
and I feel like I talked about thisin season one, when we, when I brought
up parasocial relationships, likethe idea of what a personal brand is

(18:22):
or who we follow for guidance, whowe follow for news has drastically
changed in the past 10, 15 years.
Like we didn't follow Instagramaccounts for our news or for things
that are happening around the world.
We didn't follow.
Maybe some people follow Twitteraccounts, but I felt like, I feel like

(18:42):
back then, 15 years ago, I was 15.
I am 15, 16.
And I didn't think to follow a Twitteraccount to get my news updates.
I did.
Oh,
really?
I was really into politics, not becauseit, you know, I had to, but because
it was interesting to me at the time.
Oh, interesting.

(19:04):
But do you think then, like,that news has changed too?
Like what they share?
Well, now it's X.
So, you know, now it's owned by musk.
Can't even talk about it.
Yeah.
So the whole thing is a mess.
Honestly, at least I can't speak forthe US because I don't know that or
any other country other than the UKbecause I, I'm aware of other news
outlets, but I'm not intimate in the UK.

(19:26):
I will say that.
Maybe not the way that theyreport news has changed, but I do
feel like there has been a shiftand in the left and the right.
Specifically, moreeverything more to the right.
Like we have a whole new newschannel and, um, my, my mother
watches it and it terrifies me.
It's kind of like our Fox News.
Oh, interesting.
I guess that's the equivalent.

(19:47):
I think I, uh, the bestand that didn't exist.
So I do think maybe not necessarilythe way that we report it, but I
think more news things have popped up.
Hmm.
That's for the good and thebad, I guess, because I guess
maybe more grassroots news.
Hmm.
Potentially, like local area newsor something could have popped up.

(20:07):
But yeah, X.
Yeah, that would have to be awhole other podcast episode.
Okay.
So we said media literacy andcritical thinking for people who
consume a lot of pop culture andsomething to be aware of or something
to be aware of after you consume.
So do you think there's anything actuallymissing from the pop culture narrative?

(20:28):
I feel like you said it before,which was like nuance or
like taking time to process.
But is there something else?
The thing is the issue nowadays ispop culture, like, in 19, like 1990
or whatever, even 2000, okay I'm gonnause 2000 because I was alive then.
It was like, uh, Paris, uh,Paris Hilton, uh, Nicole Richie.

(20:51):
Britney Spears.
Yeah.
I got everything from Perez Hilton, which.
Oh, yes.
I think as a, as a young teenagegirl was a mistake, but he loved it.
His media outlet was very questionable.
I did comsume this content too.
Yeah, okay, good.
I'm not the only one.
I lived for it.

(21:11):
I'm not gonna lie, I lived for it.
And obviously, you know, these wereall celebrities in their own right.
Now pop culture has blended with TikTok,with Instagram, with influencers.
And everything is so blurred, so blurred.
So now you see singers or Hollywoodstars with TikTok influencers.
It's really surreal.
It's like you've hired that personto be there for internet clout.

(21:34):
It's like really weird.
So I do think.
Just being aware that everything youwatch is probably fake to some extent.
And your favorite is probablynot that great of a person.
I love that you're saying this, mainlybecause I do feel like whenever we open up
any social media app, we automatically puton like rose colored glasses or something,

(21:58):
especially if we have specific peoplethat we love consuming content from.
And I feel like I talked about this inthe parasocial relationships episode,
which I will link in the show notesif you all haven't listened to it,
and you can go back and listen to it.
Most of the time you.
don't really know.
And also a lot of people use I do thisfor work, but like a lot of people, we

(22:18):
use social media as a way to sell oras a way to now, I mean, I specifically
use it one to sell for my clients.
I use it for them to sell.
And then, um, if not to sell, itis basically to create a portfolio.
So somebody can then hire me.
Like I'm not using Instagram how itwas when it first came out and we all

(22:42):
shared food pictures with filters on it.
Like I'm using it so that somebody cansee my work, like me, like how I do and
create and write and then hire me as acreator, hire me as a creative director,
hire me as their marketing agency.
So there are multiple waysfor them to actually hire me.

(23:04):
Like I'm like, I was just talkingto my other friend about it and
we were like, Oh, do you have likea Finsta, like a fake Instagram
account or like a personal account?
And she was like, No,I tried creating one.
And then after I created one, I waslike, this is the stupidest thing ever.
Like, I don't want to be here.
Like, why would I share aboutmy life on social media?

(23:25):
And I thought the same because I createda fake account, personal account as well,
kind of being like, Oh, well, If I'm notgoing to share on my like personal brand
account, then I'm just going to sharelike fun things that I want to share
about and it really made me think thisis dumb, like I don't want to be here.
I'm here so that I can gethired and I can get paid.

(23:48):
Why am I sharing thingswith like my friends?
You can call me and I don't know ifthat's just like old school thinking
.I agree with you.
Am I old?
But we're not.
But I also think Gen Z have it too.
They just express it in a different way.
So obviously their platform is TikTok.
I've seen videos and the people havealso addressed this and it's not

(24:09):
just, I don't, I want to say it'snot just Gen Z, but obviously they're
the main generation of TikToks.
And even if they're crying on theinternet, which I cannot imagine,
because I don't even, I want to do it.
I would love, I would cry aboutso many things, but I just can't.
You have to set a camera up tocry, and then you have to edit
it, and then you have to upload.
That's a whole process.

(24:30):
That's curation.
That's, yeah, that's curated.
It's not all curated, but it is curated inthe same way that they invented, um, the,
oh, I forgot the words, the, the differentlike pictures, like, you know, like one of
the zoomed in food and the other, like youlooking a mess, like it's not as picture
perfect as the millennial kind of vibe.

(24:52):
That's curated everythingis curated different styles.
Yeah, exactly.
They might think it's spontaneousor it might appear spontaneous.
It's not, it's just a differentversion, whether or not Gen
Alpha is going to be like that.
I'm not sure.
I've heard people say that they are goingto think that Gen Z's openness is cringy

(25:15):
and going to retreat back, which I'mexcited to see, but I don't know if it's
The powers that be, the businesses, thesocial media would allow that because
they're going to make money somehow.
Yeah.
And now everybody's pushing, um,original content on social media.
Like whatever that is, itcould be the curated stuff.
It could be like, you know, you cryingand then putting together, like bits of

(25:37):
bars, like a mash of things for a video.
And I think what is happening now isa lot of, uh, social media platforms
are pushing for, for everybodybasically to build a personal brand.
If you want to reach certain audienceson that platform, like you could
be on that platform just consuming.
And that is one thing.
Um, and then there's a, the otherside, which is the person creating

(25:59):
the stuff that people consume.
And I feel like all the platformsare pushing towards that.
So aside from the pop culture stuff,I want to get into the tech because
there's a lot to talk about in.
In tech and we kind of got intoit now with like social media and
stuff, but everyone is talking aboutthe advancement of tech, especially
because we're talking about open AI,literally just open air right now.

(26:21):
And I guess a whole bunch of otherstuff can and how it's actually helpful.
So like the advancement of technology andhow it's so helpful and all of this stuff.
What if we looked at allof this advancement of
technology through privilege?
Is there something that you think thatwe are missing from the conversation?
Some things.
Got it.

(26:41):
Um.
You could look at this from a worldperspective or within your own country,
but from a world perspective, I lookedthis up actually, and there's going to
be, there is, it's going to be, thereis a massive divide, uh, between the
global north and the global south.
And AI is predicted, I think, thisis according to the World Economic
Forum, by the way, is expectedto make over 15 trillion by 2030.

(27:06):
Well, like 15 trillion, the majority ofthat is going to go to America and China
and by America, I mean North Americaand the USA and China, the rest of the
countries just won't make that much money.
So a country like the USAthat's already rich is basically
going to become even richer.
And that also has fallout effects.
You know, many countries have expresseddispleasure in people from the U.

(27:31):
S.
A.
gentrifying their countries, their cities.
Um, so that's a huge issue.
Uh, you also have Basically, a digitaldivide between the global south and
the global south and global north,which basically means like access
to like laptops and equipment.
But that also exists within, I'm goingto guess it's going to exist within

(27:54):
the USA, but I know it exists withinthe UK when, um, it was locked down.
Children obviously had their, theirclasses online, many, many, many parents
didn't have laptops, any headphones,or if they had a laptop, it was one
and like three kids or two kids.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's not going to work.
So there's a huge digital divide across,and again, like that's class or that's

(28:16):
global north, global south type thing.
You also have, which I think islike deeply, deeply disturbing.
Have you heard of the, the facialrecognition that the, that the police
in the USA are using in certain states?
Yes.
Yeah.
So basically they, uh, not all ofthem, but some of them are AI powered.
And the thing about AI is.

(28:37):
AI is great, but who is AI?
Who taught AI?
Like, who's the parents of AI?
Humans.
And humans have biases.
So they're usually like, white men, right?
From the global north.
And so facial recognition services,uh, things are being used, and
it can't tell black people apart.
Meaning that there aremany wrongful arrests.
Many wrongful arrests.

(28:58):
As opposed to what was happening prior.
It exacerbated the issue.
Yeah, exactly.
It exacerbated the issue.
So technology is often sold as the greatequalizer, and it has potential to be.
I mean, anyone that's seen Star Trekkind of has that, but it's not, it's
not, it continues to do the work that weare currently doing, which is not great.

(29:21):
So heating up the planet, racism,patriarchy, all of these things are
like exacerbating issues betweenfinancial inequalities between
global North and global South.
So yeah, tech.
Tech, invest, no, I'm just kidding.
Thank you for sharing all of that.
I do feel like, you know, I've seen somany different things on LinkedIn and

(29:45):
a lot of articles talking specificallyabout OpenAI, ChatGPT, if you want
to get granular, because ChatGPThas taken over at least my industry,
which is marketing and like contentcreation and all of that stuff.
And it's something that Ialways tell people is okay,
ChatGPT, sure, You can use it.
I'm not gonna, I'm not here to tellyou what to use or don't use for your

(30:06):
marketing, but you have to like, comeat it with a critical eye because
like Georgia was saying, like whocreated these open AI sources and
what system was it created under?
It was created under our current system.
And when I'm talking systems,I'm talking multiple.
It was created under a racist system.
It was created under anextremely capitalist one.

(30:29):
It was created under the patriarchy.
So all of these things like chat GPTdoesn't like, you know, skip them.
Doesn't absolve those things.
And also it's pulling from oldrecords anyways, it's, it's not
like on the internet, it's justin the cloud or whatever it is.
I don't know what it fully is.
It's offline.
I know that.
I could be wrong, so people don'tcome after me, but I think the,

(30:51):
the most 2021, or no, 2022 wasthe last date, December 2022.
Was it 2022?
For some reason I thought it was 2011.
It could be 21.
I think it could be 21.
Okay.
2021.
Somebody.
Maybe.
Message us if you're listening to this andyou actually know the real date, um, let
us know, but I know it's not like the mostaccurate and also if it's created under

(31:15):
this, like it is just recreating biasesand, um, stereotypical representation
of people, specifically people of color.
Specifically, black people, specifically,indigenous people, specifically,
people who have like disabilities,um, all of those things are just
following a really old narrativethat needs to kind of be questioned.

(31:38):
I mean, I'm yeah, everybody'slike, Oh, yeah, everybody's
talking about the advancement tech.
And of course, I'm sure chatGPT also helps people in other
ways that I probably don't know,because I am an able bodied person.
And I also speak English.
So I bring in already a quite abit of privilege, because I think.
I was just talking to a friend herein Spain and her marketing agency

(32:00):
uses it, but she was like, theSpanish version of whatever chat GPT
is that she uses is not very good.
So she actually, and sheworks also as a translator.
So she actually pulls in things.
in English and then she'll translateit because the Spanish version just
doesn't give the same amount ofinformation, which is interesting.

(32:21):
So does that mean that chatty PT isbeing used in different languages?
Is it not?
Is it not being like developed asquickly because more people are putting
in questions and prompts in English.
And then that also createsdisparity because English
already is seen as the privilegedlanguage and the global language.
So all the people whomaybe don't speak English.

(32:42):
How are you going to get like thebest and accurate information?
Is there the best andaccurate information?
That's like a whole other thing.
Yeah.
And that lies into the bigger problemof tech and the global dominance
of one country, which is the USA.
A lot of the tech country, a lot of thetech companies are coming from the USA.
Like, I mean, the heavy hitters, likethe UK and Europe also have like.

(33:03):
Nothing like Facebook or Meta, sorry.
We're just confusing all the names here.
Yeah, x, you know, um, all of these kindof big, the ones that have the power.
And if it comes from another countrylike China, then they challenge
it completely and try and get it.
To be like banned or whatever, which isinsane, but they will do the same thing.

(33:25):
Yeah, so this is, it's onlyexacerbating not just wealth
inequality, as you said, like language,I guess, inequality, like cultural.
Culturalization.
Yeah.
Imperialization.
Um, one of.
Yeah.
One of our clients, um, she isan intercultural intelligence

(33:45):
facilitator or also like a designerspecialist and she was talking to
me about cultural imperialism and.
If we want to get into it, um,globalization in general, um, but I do
think, and this is actually somethingthat I talked about in my TEDx talk.
Um, I've linked that in the show notes,but technology, I think, has sped up

(34:09):
globalization, which is kind of cool.
I guess if we want to think aboutit on like economic level, or if you
want to think about, you know, justthe way the world is advancing, maybe
it makes sense to have one culture.
But the thing is, Because technology isadvancing globalization at such a rapid
rate, which culture, though, is actuallydominating if we are to create one

(34:33):
culture, which language is dominating,which religion, which type of culture,
which Way of thinking, like, you know,those things need to be examined because
yeah, globalization, I guess, is cool.
And like, we are all connectedand we can be connected.
You can make a friend all over theworld, um, and then literally become
that person's best friend and webecome more connected, but also what's

(34:57):
happening to the greater society.
If you want to think about that.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, like, it's, it's, it's whatI, it's what we were talking about
earlier, the amount of people fromthe USA that assume that when someone
else is writing in English, they'refrom the USA, they could be literally
from anywhere else in the world.
And their country mightnot even speak English.

(35:18):
It might be that person's second,third, fourth, fifth language,
but I think, oh, USA is English.
Yeah.
So this is, I think, symbolic.
Of everything it's not great andthe thing is it's not going to stop
either because it makes too much moneyAnd money makes the world go round.
Yeah.

(35:39):
Yay.
Yeah.
Okay, so I feel like we got likereally deep and intense, um, which
I love these types of conversations,but I am also curious, are there any
specific current technology advancementsyou're exploring and excited about?
And also, how has technology helpedyou as a neurodivergent person?

(35:59):
So I'm into technology becauseI don't see a good end in sight.
So as someone who's like not, you know,I did humanities and social sciences.
I'm not an engineer or a scientistSo I have been exploring and just
looking at different options.
One of them I am deeply curious aboutI don't know why more people Are using
it aren't using it and I just feellike it's money, but whatever so, you

(36:22):
know, like fast fashion is an issue Sowhen companies make clothes to sell to
you, they make, um, they're not calledpreviews, but like, like mock ups, right?
It takes a lot of material.
That takes a lot of planning.
Now you can do it digitally.
And like the material that is not justlike really bad, like special effects.
It's really good.
It's like really cool.

(36:43):
That saves a lot ofmaterial and a lot of waste.
And that has the potentialto go really far.
So rather than make thousands ofdifferent mock ups because don't forget.
You don't just make one, likesomeone might say, okay, you know
what, change the color of the bow,or you know what, drop the sleeves.
With 3D design, you can reallyfix that, which is fantastic.

(37:05):
And additionally, now we have the powerto say like, okay, here's the design.
If you want it, buy it now.
And that will mean you'llhave to wait as a consumer.
But then if a thousand people orderit, they'll make a thousand rather
than we're going to make 50, 000and then 20, 000 people buy it and
30, 000 get sent like to be burned.
That, I think, would be greatif more companies, obviously,

(37:30):
like, especially if like smallercompanies, that might be an issue.
in terms of cost and also like to get a3D designer and to do all of that I think
would be quite a hard task when it's quitenew but the bigger companies I feel like
they could do it but we as a consumerwould have to readdress to our uh, next
day delivery kind of fetish if you will.

(37:51):
Yeah.
That I think could be very powerfulbut again I don't know if these models
will be adopted under capitalism.
Um, it's been used, I think,maybe me, bigger designers,
like, like the bourgeoisie ones.
Yeah, I'm not seeing it ingreat use now, which is a
shame, because, you know, money!
But, to answer your second question,as a neurodivergent person, for those

(38:13):
of you that don't know, I have ADHD.
It's really fun and Iwant to die sometimes.
But basically, if you put in like areally like long article, I say long,
it could be two paragraphs, depending onhow you're feeling, like sometimes like
I can read, but like nothing I can't likefocus, it can give you bullet points.
Or for example, like writingemails, I find really hard,
it can tell you what to write.

(38:34):
And like, I'm like, Oh, yeah, okay.
Even if I don't copy andpaste, I can be like, Oh.
I'm going to write a line like this.
So for doing like kind of admintasks, I think it's quite useful
for me or just like open AI,
I use chat, GBT.
Chat, GBT is like, I think the main one,it's just the most productive again, if
you're going to do research, I would make,I ask it to make me cite sources and then

(38:56):
I look up the sources myself, don't justtrust what it says, people don't trust
what it says, but for stuff like emailsand I have trouble processing audio.
So then I copy and paste like the actualwords and then it again puts it in
bullet points so it's really easy andfun and it can make you a productive
member of society when you have to work.

(39:17):
When you have to work.
I do.
Yeah, I, I like that and I like how ithelps you with admin things because I do
feel like there are just some admin stuff.
I mean, I am neurotypical, so they say,who knows, but a lot of the admin things,
I can see how it would take a lot ofenergy to go through and just do it all.

(39:41):
So yeah, I love that.
It helps you kind of likesummarize bullet points and then
kind of just make things easier.
Also, if you're from anotherculture, English isn't your second
language, is it isn't your firstlanguage are neurodivergent.
Or all of the above.
I had a situation where I wanted towrite an email, but I knew not an email
message on LinkedIn, but I knew if I didit, it would be like too blunt, like too

(40:05):
direct because like, uh, people who areneurodivergent usually are a little bit
more direct and it's seen as quite rude.
Also like I, I am workingclass I, I'm very blunt.
That's nice.
I'm from London, so . Yeah.
And I'm from London.
Yeah.
So I'm very blunt.
A lot of layers here.
Yes.
You can ask, you can explain thesituation to chat GBT and it writes an
appropriate message, which is great.

(40:26):
Especially like if, I feel like if you'reworking in the corporate or tech well
or a very professional that's in airquotes, people professional environment
and you don't know the lay of theland or how to appropriately speak,
especially like American corporatespeak is a little bit difficult for me
to understand what's going on to chat.
GBT can tell you what to write,which I think is very useful.

(40:48):
Interesting.
I never thought about that.
So helpful.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
So going from technology, we, youmentioned that you are working class.
So I'm going to take us tothe next part, um, or a set of
questions that I've got for you.
Classism.
And I feel like we have had.
So many conversations just you and Iabout around classism and something

(41:11):
that I think the United States is notvery aware of is actually classes.
I don't know if this is mecoming from a middle class.
Privilege.
So like my parents, uh, I think Imentioned this maybe in season one, but
if you don't know, um, they came to theUSA after the Vietnam war in the eighties.
So my parents are immigrantsand slash refugees.

(41:34):
Um, I was born specifically in theUnited States in an area of the U.
S.
Which is called Northern Virginia.
That is very, very, veryinfluenced by Washington DC.
So like my area is considered, Ithink one of the more expensive areas
to live in, and it's very diverse.
It's really fun, I guess.
I don't live there now, but it is fun.

(41:58):
But yeah, coming from like my middleclass privilege, I don't know if me saying
that sounds like super, super tone deaf.
So if you have a differentopinion, please let me know.
Send me a message on Instagramand we can chat about it.
Um, I will correct myself if I am wrong.
Um, but how do you think classismplays a role in pop culture and tech,
I guess from UK standpoint, or evenlike globally, what have you seen?

(42:22):
I also, do you want to quickly add in, Ido think Americans or people from the USA
do not acknowledge class on a grand scale.
It's not a, it's not a, it's sometimestalked about, but it's, it's usually
other identities and it's weird becauseclass does affect every identity.
There is.
It's but then if you were to acknowledgeclass, you'd have to spoil the American
dream, and that's not, Yeah, so that's-

(42:47):
I'll ask you about thatafter this question.
And an extension of goingfrom the American dream.
Yes.
I do have a really big onein really fucked me off.
Okay.
Do you know who Sophia Richie is?
Yes.
Did she just get married?
Excellent.
Yes.
I'm so happy you know that.
So for those of you that don't know,she's Lionel Richie's daughter.
Lionel Richie is asinger from the eighties.

(43:09):
So she's no stranger to wealth and fame.
Whoever does her branding, her marketbranding, cause she's a brand, right?
No, whoever does her marketing,her PR has done an amazing job.
I will give them that.
So basically.
The only way to say this is she wentfrom dressing like the Kardashians, which
I want to say there's nothing wrong ifthat's how you want to dress, that's how
you want to dress, to a more older styleof dressing, what's considered classic.

(43:33):
And then she had a wedding, and again,whoever done that done a bang up job.
And people are now referringto her as like, kind of like
the old money aesthetic.
What did old money do apart from,you know, colonize, enslave people?
Exploit.
So when you were saying, Oh,like, I want to look old money.
Like, what does that mean?
What does that mean?

(43:54):
So I think that's inherently classes.
And I have seen a fewcreators address this.
Even in Colombia, I see like oldmoney, aesthetic and English followed
by Spanish from Spanish shows.
It's, it's literally like everywhere,but I think people don't realize
what it means to be old money,um, which is quite worrying.
Again, critical thinking.

(44:14):
And a little bit of history.
And even if you look at like thepeople who are still old money now,
they're not great people or they'renot doing great things, they're still
exploiting people in one way or another.
As for tech, I don't evenknow where to begin with tech
because it's mostly a meal.
dominated industry from the IvyLeagues, I guess, of the world,

(44:36):
or specifically North America.
That's the middle toupper classes right there.
I don't, and especially within a certaingroup, usually like white, white men.
Right.
So it's like, again, see howclass intersects with stuff.
Yay.
No, but yeah.
Um, so they're creating these apps.
All these platforms and then the way tobe successful on these platforms is if

(44:58):
you are, or if you do have money, likefilming in a nice aesthetic with like, you
know, great equipment, you have the timeto do it because goodness knows if you're
working two or three jobs, you're notgoing to want to sit there and be like,
Okay guys, guess what I'm doing today.
No, so it's these platforms builtby these primarily middle class, Ivy
League educated, you know, people,men, white men from North America,

(45:22):
and then the people that are beingsuccessful on it are the rich people.
Yeah.
Upper class.
Because I want to say, I know inthe States, class equates to money,
but that's, that's not in, in theUK, it's a little bit different.
It can equate to money, butthere's also like new money.
Class is also culture.
Hmm.
Can you explain that a little bit?
Yeah, sticking deep into the Britishpsyche, but basically there's this

(45:43):
idea of old money or new money.
So a really obvious example ofthis, and again, if this is what you
want to wear, there's no judgment.
A new money would be likethe graphic logo to use.
Like that's designer name, right?
Yeah.
Old money.
People say like old money whispers, soyou could wear like a cashmere sweater
and you walk past it, you think it'snothing, that thing's worth like 2, 000.

(46:05):
Or, again, bags.
Did you, you didn't seeSuccession, did you?
No.
Okay, so, uh, Succession is, they'reactually new money, but obviously they,
they mix in new old money circles.
But there was a woman who, one of thecharacters called Greg, was dating at the
time and for those that watch Successionthey're gonna know exactly what I mean.

(46:26):
She came to an event with a Burberry bag.
The Burberry bag was like this big andit had the Burberry design all over and
like another guy commented um was likeoh it's a ludicrously capacious bag.
And basically she didn't know the rulesis kind of what he was referring to.
And so he was like, what is shecarrying her flats for the subway?

(46:47):
Like that kind of thing.
He was like, there are a set of rulesthat new money kind of don't do.
big bag that screams designer to a lowkey event is not, not, it's not done.
Yeah.
And old money, like in the UK, theygo to, I know in the USA it's the
same too, but they go to certainschools and then they become prime
ministers or politicians or presidents.

(47:09):
Um, this is the thing,new money, big shiny cars.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's kind of like, it's knowinghow to do rich people things.
That's old money.
No matter if you win the lotterytomorrow, you won't know how
to fit in with these people.
That's new money.
So it's not just money.
It's a mix of both.
I think play into it.
Yeah.
So it's like money, but then alsobehaviors and trends and like-

(47:33):
-norms and values, like peoplewould call it class, like having
class, you're a classy person.
That's what it means.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Okay.
Yeah.
Did not know that.
Now that you've explained it.
Yeah.
I can see it in, like, play outin everything else that, you know,
I, I see in the United Statesand maybe also here in Spain.

(47:55):
But anyways, okay, back tothe questions around classism.
You mentioned that the UnitedStates doesn't want to acknowledge
classism because it wouldcompletely derail this concept
that we have of the American dream.
And I am super curious about that,mainly because I'm like, as soon as
you said it, I was like, oh, it true.
It is so true, at least in my opinion.

(48:16):
Um, and if you are listening,you're like, what the fuck?
Let us know.
Yeah.
People in the USA.
I know I'm English, butplease don't hate me.
Can you explain a littlebit around that concept?
Um, because coming, me coming from animmigrant background, like my parents
came, you know, they came from nothing.
My dad came and arrived to the UnitedStates with just the clothes on his back.

(48:39):
They now have.
a lovely house in the suburbs.
They put three kids through college.
Like I don't have debt that I'mlike, Oh, that is amazing though.
Because like my parents did it.
They went from zero to like having thislovely life and like are semi retired, but
I can also see how, you know, this ideaof the American dream almost kept them.

(49:03):
And I would have to ask themand kind of like confirm, but I
do see it that they just were.
Their entire lives.
And now, like, myparents are semi retired.
My mom is doing well.
My dad is kind of like, oh, what do I do?
I'm not totally sure.
You know, yeah, get hobbies, whatever.
But they've both been working for so long.
And yes, they put me and my sistersthrough college, but at what cost for

(49:26):
their own, like, I mean, they were just insurvival mode for like most of their life.
But yeah, I would love to hear fromyou and kind of break this down.
So, I will, I do want to acknowledgethat the USA, more than the UK
and several other countries, isa place that you can make it.
Yeah.
And by make it, I mean, Pedro Pascalis one of the perfect examples of this.

(49:47):
His parents came from Chile, theyescaped the dictatorship in Chile.
I think they're back in the countrynow and he's like a global superstar
and your parents proof as well.
And I do, and if you watch like anythingfrom like Downton Abbey or anything of
that kind of a genre, like you have thestuffy rich English family and there's
always like an obligatory Americanand they make and they're like, Oh, Oh

(50:08):
yeah, over there you can do anythinglike, Oh, like as if, as if say, like,
you know, our rules are better or theAmerican comes in and says something.
outlandish.
Like, um, oh yeah, my, my dad workedin a factory, now I'm a journalist.
And the English people are like,horrific, how could this possibly happen?
So the USA, given how it developed, it hasbecome a place for people to, to make it.

(50:33):
That, that aspect is, I think,more true than other countries.
That said, I don't think it's as true aspeople, both American, both people from
the USA and outside would like to believe.
Like, as you said, like your parentsworked worked and they worked and they
worked and they worked and they worked.
It's not ideal.
Yeah.
And I'm confused as to what peoplethink work means as well, because the

(50:56):
people that work two or three jobs, arethey, are they not working hard too?
Is that not an issue?
I don't quite understandwhat makes someone's work
more worth more than others.
It doesn't quite make sense, like,if you're working in a diner and
then you're working in a factory oryou're doing DoorDash or whatever.
That's still working if I'm not mistaken,I think there isn't, and you can correct

(51:20):
me if I'm wrong, in certain states orcities, specifically, I'm thinking of
like New York specifically, there are manyoptions, if you go down to like the middle
or southern states, there's not as manyoptions, and you need a car, specifically,
yeah, again, that's like class issuesas well, like within a country, and
again, if you look a certain way, Yeah.
Uh, if you have a certain accent,if you're from a certain country,

(51:42):
if your name appears a certainway, you're not going to get hired.
So it's not equal.
It's not the land of equal opportunities.
The USA has survived so longbecause of this narrative.
And I was watching The RealHousewives of New York season
14 for anybody, for anybody thatwatches it, please message me.
I need, I need this.
It's like, so they had a whole reboot.
So you have like new.

(52:02):
New housewives.
I mean, I love it.
I do.
I'm going to say this,but it's propaganda.
So you, so it's very like eliteNew York money, like New York money
is different than any other money.
Like it's like, you've gotto be richer right there.
So you have like the majority ofthe women come from generational
wealth, but one of them didn't.
And she basically came fromnothing and abusive household.
And you know, good on her.

(52:22):
She's, she's lovely.
This has not to do with her.
But it's kind of like perpetuating this.
You too can be on the row housewives ofNew York if you just persist, persist.
And rather than acknowledge theinequalities like healthcare, food
deserts, you know about food deserts.
Yeah.
Food deserts.
For those that don't know, likea food desert in the USA is when

(52:43):
people can't access fresh foodwithin like a reasonable distance.
And by fresh fruit, I mean, veg.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And everything is just verylike microwavey artificial.
Yeah.
Well, that's not the American dream.
How are you supposed to succeedwhen you can't even like
put proper nutrition in you?
Yeah.
Yeah.

(53:04):
So it's interesting the way thatthe propaganda machine works,
but it's such a good show.
Again, see, it works like it's, it's,it's a well oiled machine that works.
Yeah.
However, yeah, this is the thing.
It's interesting.
Yeah,
I feel like, and I'm asking youthese questions, not really to
like fully break down the system.

(53:25):
Of course, I want to likeburn it down and rebuild it.
And if you follow Georgia onInstagram, her literal handle is
I want to burn this place down.
Um, but I do think we need to have moreconversations around this, especially
me specifically, because, you know, Ilive outside of the U S now and I came
from middle class, even if my parentsand my family came from lower class.

(53:49):
I can see yay privilege and I get tolike live this lifestyle that I do now,
but also understand that this mightnot be a reality for a lot of people.
And within like the conversation thatwe had just now about pop culture and
technology, like class still plays areally big part in that, because like
Georgia was saying, people who want tobe creators or content creators or have a

(54:12):
personal brand, if you are working class,maybe your house isn't set up to film
like, and you know, you're not aesthetic.
And yes, TikTok has changed that alittle bit because I've seen like
other types of videos, but I do think.
That it still almost like continuesthat narrative because yes, people will

(54:34):
post, you know, these videos and stuff.
And then people in the commentswill kind of be like, the way they
comment sounds like poverty porn.
You know what I mean?
Where they're like, oh, mygosh, like, and I'm over here
complaining about blah, blah, blah.
I'm so lucky.
Thank you for sharing about your life.
Yeah, that's such an inspiration.

(54:54):
Yeah.
Right.
And that is not necessarily theconversation that sure you can have
whatever conversation you want, butlike, I feel like that conversation
doesn't actually move the needle forwardto create more equality or more equity
for everybody in the world, especially.
If we're consuming content literallyfrom everybody in the world and people
are getting super rich off of TikTok.

(55:17):
And then there are creators who arenot getting rich, but then they get
lovely comments like this, where they'relike, your life is an inspiration.
Keep going.
You'll make it one day.
And I'm like, okay, people.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's I even like have words for it.
I feel like tick tock, atleast on my side of tick tock.
It's slowly.

(55:37):
Did you see there was this girlI say this like with gritted
teeth because it was just likesomething out of like Versailles.
She was doing she's doing an internshipat Dior in Paris and her apartment.
I mean, it's like Versailles kind oflike Golden paintings everywhere, right?
And she's like, get readywith me to go to a ball.

(55:59):
A ball, not a prom, buta ball, a literal ball.
And I kept seeing her and I waslike, I feel so bad about my life.
Like she's like a baby by, by baby people.
I mean, like she's 18, but thenI saw people stitch her saying.
No, no, no, this is not real.
This is why we need to like havea revolution or like, this is

(56:19):
exactly why like we need to eitherrich or no, this is no, I can't.
I also feel a certain way.
It's not just you.
And the thing is, they're notthe people creating the content.
No, they're, they're responding to it.
So it's great that they're respondingto it, but what content can they create?
Cause they don't have any balls.
Paris internships in Dior.
So again, pros and cons.

(56:39):
Yeah.
Pros and cons.
Yeah.
It was a beautiful place.
I was into a screenshot.
Yeah, please.
Because I'm like, I don't, I don'tthink I'm on that side of TikTok.
I'm so jealous.
Yeah.
And like, apparently herfamily are like old money.
So, you know, I love that you'reusing old money, new money, because
now I like, I understood the concept.
prior to this conversation, butthen because you explain like the

(57:01):
culture of it, I'm like, Oh yeah, Itotally know what Georgia was saying.
Once I think it's explained orjust even like shown in a picture,
like I think it's everywhere.
Like it's completely everywhere.
And, and like Gwyneth Paltrow,she's like all the money.
George Clooney.
And you see it.

(57:22):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go Googlethese people and like put pictures.
George Clooney, really?
Well, George Clooney, I can tell,especially after you explained
the like aesthetic and likebehaviors and all that stuff.
Um, I can totally see that.
Okay.
But last question before we getinto the last, last question, uh,
what solutions have you imaginedto create a more equitable world?
Since we were just talking aboutthat through pop culture and tech.

(57:44):
So for those of you that don't knowme very well, I'm very cynical.
So I found, I found this question veryhard other than the future of Star Trek.
Uh, the Star Trek that showsthe future, that gives me hope.
For those of you that don't know, StarTrek shows, uh, an equal society, uh,
where everyone can be who they wantto be and everyone is valued equally.

(58:06):
No matter skin, race, ethnicity,gender, uh, ability, disability.
And tech is used for good.
And we all get on with thealiens, apart from certain
aliens, but it's a separate issue.
Anyway, the point is,it's a utopian future.
Yeah.
Do you know Grimes?
Yes, actually we were justtalking about Grimes yesterday.
I was talking about her with I forgot who.

(58:29):
Okay, so Grimes, for those of you thatdon't know, is a singer and she's also
the mother of, I was going to say babymama, but I didn't, I didn't know if I
should, baby mama, yeah, of um, of Elonmusk's one of his two of his children.
He has many children.
For those of you that don't know,if you don't know, please do a deep
dive because it is disturbing anyway.

(58:49):
Yeah.
So she's super into tech and shewas on, uh, Julia Fox's and Nikki
Takeshi's podcast, The Forbidden Fruits.
And she said this thing that reallystuck with me that, um, TikTok is like
a kind of version of oral history.
In that sense, TikTok is very egalitarianin that anyone can have an opinion.
I mean, is it always great?
No, but it is easier to becomea celebrity in that sense.

(59:13):
Like, you have people like JenniferAniston saying, like, they're not
real celebrities, blah, blah, blah.
I loved you in Friends, Jen,but your dad's an actor.
So again, this is only for nepo babies.
So I guess this kind of idea of oralstorytelling really does kind of put it
into a different perspective where it'snot so depressing, where it's a part
of human history that we can all takepart in, which I think is pretty cool.

(59:33):
I think if more tech could kind ofhave a more human aspect like that...
inclusionary.
So, for example, it's okay forKendall Jenner to show her tits on
Instagram, but if a person with bigtits does it, suddenly it's, uh,
it's sexualized, or if a bad persondoes it, then it's no, it's banned.
That doesn't make sense.
So it's like one rule for, youknow, upholding all these standards.

(59:55):
So I think tech needs tobe developed ethically.
And it's socially responsible.
However, I don't think that can bedone in the environment we live in,
in capitalism, which is why StarTrek is not capitalism, by the way.
It's like communist,socialist, anyway, I digress.
Um, but it's like the only thing that,that, that gives me hope because I
don't see any tech is only being usedright now to make a shit ton of money

(01:00:19):
for people that already have money.
Yeah.
So I would like to imaginethat it could be more ethical.
inclusive and socially responsible, but Idon't, I don't, I don't, I don't see it.
I don't feel it.
If I'm wrong, please let me know.
Give me hope.
Give me hope.
Other than Star Trek.
If it's from Star Trek, thenI already know it's okay.
Funnily enough, I actuallyused to watch Star Trek, so.

(01:00:40):
Like way back in the day.
I think it's because my uncle,um, really enjoyed the show.
So he would put it on and thenI would watch it with him.
So I don't know, like a lot of thethings about it, but I have watched it
and I kind of understand the premise.
I know.
I am so shocked.
We'll have to talk about it off of thispodcast, but I love what you said one
about the tech stuff being more sociallyresponsible, more ethical, more human

(01:01:03):
and created with more inclusion in mind.
And then on the other side with popculture being part of the conversation
I think is something all of us cando if whether we are a air quoting
this, um, personal brand or not,whether we are a business owner
or not, as like just individualhuman beings, I think we can have.

(01:01:24):
These conversations and itdoesn't need to be on like a viral
platform, like TikTok or Instagram.
Um, whenever you get to that point, maybethat would be awesome, but it would be
just like normal everyday conversationswith like your partner, your friends,
your family, um, somebody that you decideto like meet up with for networking.
I don't know.
I think those are just as powerful aswhen you take it to TikTok or Instagram or

(01:01:50):
whatever social media platform you want.
I always say, like, especially withinpersonal branding, this is something that
I tell our clients that social media istechnically used to scale the opinion or
the message that you already have, but to,in order to have like a well formulated
one, one that you like can stand behindsomething that you really truly believe

(01:02:12):
in and that like aligns with your values.
It requires having like these behindthe scenes conversations first, so that
you can really create a well roundedholistic opinion and stand behind it as
well as one that aligns with your values.
And then when you have that, You cantake it to social media to amplify it

(01:02:35):
and also to scale that message becausethen you can reach more people faster
when you don't have like a well roundedopinion is when you know you open tick
tock or Instagram and you're like,should have taken a beat there, buddy.
Again, yeah, which plays into.
Critical thinking.
Yeah.
We have a circle over here.
Yes.

(01:02:56):
100 percent agree.
Okay.
So last, last, or not last question, butlike last is question for the segment.
Um, is there a nuanced conversationthat you think we are not having enough?
Oh, class.
Okay, yeah, I can see that.
I'm really curious about class,not just in, you know, individual
countries, but class all over the world.
There's been research, the richare getting richer and the poor

(01:03:17):
are getting poorer in the majorityof countries, and the wealth gap
between each country is equalizing.
And if you notice all over the world,rent is getting really expensive
and our wages are not increasing,they're probably decreasing.
Just a coincidence oryeah, so I feel like class.
And class solidarity, and what that couldlook like across the global north, the

(01:03:42):
global south, like across everything,because this wouldn't be happening.
There's too many of us.
If we all said no, there's justtoo many of us if we work together.
So I do think class is,needs to be addressed.
That's all that comesto my mind right now.
Personally, I'm hoping for,like, the French Revolution
style type thing, but we'll see.

(01:04:03):
To each their own.
We'll see how that plays out.
For all of you who are like, whathappened in the French Revolution?
The guillotine happened.
They became a republic andthey have no more royal family.
The UK never had a revolution andit still has a royal family, so.
Spain also I don't thinkhas had a revolution.
We still have a royal family.
Oh wait, I mean, I'm not Spanish, butlike, they still have a royal family.

(01:04:24):
But wasn't it reinstated?
It was reinstated.
Why didn't they do it?
Uh, after, I think.
After?
Yeah.
Okay.
For those that you, thatdon't know, I apologize.
I don't.
Too much about Spanish history.
Well, actually, I could be wrong.
I say after, I think.
But yeah, double check.
Don't take my word for it.
Around the time or slightly after.

(01:04:44):
Yes.
Ambiguous.
Okay.
So before we wrap up thisconversation, thank you, Georgia,
for joining and for sharing.
I loved it.
I always like to end each podcastepisode with either journaling prompts.
Exploratory questions are anactivity for people to kind of do
their own like little reflection.
So do you have any journalingprompts, exploratory questions or an

(01:05:07):
activity for the people listening?
So I panicked when I got this questionbecause I do not do journaling
questions because I overthink and overintellectualize and I will just end
up writing an essay and really removeit from myself, if that makes sense.
Yes.
I wish I could because I want to join in.
I want to be a part ofthe journaling thing.
Like, especially the guided questions.

(01:05:28):
Those look like fun, butalas, they're not for me.
I did, I do the artist way.
Um, it's a book.
If any of you would like to look it up.
Thank you, Adrienne, forputting me onto that book.
Yes.
But basically, why I like thebook, the book does have some
journaling prompts and I do dothem, but I don't do them very well.
But what I like, whatsticks with me is that.
You have to journal every day, andthat for me is, it's not guided.

(01:05:52):
I just write down, and like, I'mthe type of person that will care
about how my paragraphs appear, likeon the paper, if there's an indent.
I care about the structure, but like,doing that, I've learned to let it go and
just like release my feelings, as opposedto just, introduction, paragraph, body
paragraph, yeah, yeah, so the artist way,it encourages you to explore creativity.

(01:06:17):
In a way that is sometimes isuncomfortable, but I feel like it
does have something for everyone.
It has guided journaling,non guided journaling.
It has activities that you can do.
I find myself hating it the entiretime and I think that's quite useful.
Is that like the most British thingthat you said on this podcast?
I don't think so.
I'm sure if you all roll backthere are more things that you said

(01:06:40):
that are very British, but yeah.
Because yeah, I heard that one.
I did hear that one and Iwas like shit, but it's true.
Like it it makes you like reallyfeel your discomfort and for somebody
that does over intellectualize theiremotions or does overthink It's good
to like feel something in your bodybecause when people say to me, oh,
where do you feel that in your body?
I don't know I don't know.

(01:07:01):
What do you mean feel in your body?
I don't feel my body.
Like, what does that mean?
So, um, it helps.
That's the message.
It helps.
And it's like week one,week two, week three.
So it's not just like, oh, answera question and then you go.
Okay.
I will link that in the shownotes for anybody who doesn't
know about the artists way.
And you can check that out.

(01:07:22):
All right, Georgia.
Well, thank you again for joining.
Thank you for sharingall of your thoughts.
I love to this conversation.
I love that we were able to like.
Yeah, of course.
I love that we were able to kindof like bring a lot of what we
talk about in our like regularmessages and expand on it here.
Can you share something that youare excited about in the upcoming

(01:07:44):
months and then where peoplecan reach you and follow you?
Christmas, which you shouldhave known is coming.
You should have known you look straight.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Christmas or the holidays for thosethat don't celebrate as long as it's
December and it's snowing and I can hearChristmas music and have holiday food.

(01:08:04):
Yeah Good times.
That's number one.
I'm Mariah Carey.
Don't forget.
I want Mariah Carey singing.
Oh my gosh
Yeah, uh, the second oneis I have a newsletter.
It's called a portal betweenso basically it's kind of what?
Me and you Cassandra have been talkingabout it's where the intersection
of fashion, pop culture, art, theinternet, all these types of things,

(01:08:27):
tech, where they meet and we've allkind of been there like with the
endless scrolling and you kind of getdepressed and everyone has a hot take.
I get the good stuff off the internet,like the really good stuff and all the
conversations and I break it down andgive like pros and cons and like you know
from the from the different creators.
So, You're up to date, you're pluggedin, but it's not like shitty content.

(01:08:51):
It's like good contentthat I find like art.
Like why do we use thisword content when it's art?
It's like, it's great.
Anyway, that's a wholeseparate issue, but yes.
So that's my newsletterwhere you can subscribe.
It's free.
It's like my passion project.
I will also link that into the comments.
I am also subscribed.
I think your first one went out and I waslike, Oh my gosh, these are like really.

(01:09:15):
They are really good pieces of content.
I am subscribed to like quitea few different newsletters
and like sub stacks and stuff.
Georgia definitely findsthings, I think, from like deep,
deep corners of the Internet.
And it's very interesting.
It's interesting, but also I thinkit's necessary because I feel
like culture is the Internet.
This is why I made it for people thatjust Want to plug like unplug plug out.

(01:09:39):
I was gonna say unplug but still want tobe up to date and still want to like be
entertained or intellectually stimulated.
Hmm.
So yeah, I will link it in thecomments below or not the comments.
Oh, the show notes.
Um, so you can all can check that out.
And then where can peopleconnect with you on the internet
aside from your newsletter?

(01:10:00):
Instagram and TikTok@IWantToBurnThisPlaceDown, which
Cassandra, it's a quote from Mad Men.
Did you know?
No.
It's a quote from Mad Men.
It's a quote from Mad Men.
So yeah, I want to burn this place down.
Anyone can message me or not.
I will also link that in the show notesso that you can check out and message

(01:10:21):
Georgia if you want to, or follow.
And yeah, I think that's it, Georgia.
Thank you so much for joining you.
Thank you also for helpingme produce this podcast.
If you also don't know, she is the,I don't know the podcast producer,
manager, editor, coordinator.

(01:10:42):
I like it.
Yeah.
Only if the above.
All of the above.
The podcast coordinatorfor I'm Lost, So What?
So she's the one that's putting all ofthis together and making it amazing.
Yeah,
I have to edit myself.
Yay!
Let me know how that goes later.
Well, everyone.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So much for tuning into this conversation.

(01:11:04):
And if you have any questions, thoughts,if there's something that we said
that was like completely wrong, uh,message one of us and let us know.
And I will see you in the next episode.
Stay fierce fam.
If you're hearing this message, that meansyou made it to the end of this episode.
Yay.
Thanks for listening.
If you enjoyed this episode and thoughtto yourself, whoa, it me, then I'd

(01:11:28):
love if you could share this withothers, post about it on social media
and or leave a rating and review.
Don't forget to subscribe towant to hang out with me in
other areas of the internet.
You can follow me on Instagram@CassandraTLe for brand message and
content marketing tips and resources.
Check out my business at@TheQuirkyPineappleStudio.
Thanks again and seeyou in the next episode.

(01:11:50):
Stay fierce, fam.

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Georgia Smith-Marr: Finding the intersections of culture, tech, and classism

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