Brett Favre: Pain, Perseverance, and Overcoming Addiction

This week on the In Depth podcast, NFL legend Brett Favre opens up about his 20-year career, including his iconic run with the Packers, playing just a day after his father’s death, and overcoming a painkiller addiction.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
This week on the In Depth Podcast, Brett Favre, the
legendary quarterback and Hall of Famer, played for 20 seasons
in the NFL and started a record 297 consecutive games.
I played every game like it was the last.
I really did. The three time MVP is obviously
best known for his time with theGreen Bay Packers, where he

(00:25):
earned the Super Bowl ring and famously had one of the greatest
games of his life just a day after losing his father.
I could have never have imaginedto play the way I did.
Farve relived his biggest careermoments when we caught up with
him in 2015. He also opened up about beating
an addiction to painkillers. Had you quit?

(00:46):
I shook every night, Cole sweatsand it was a constant battle.
Set the record straight on his departure from the Packers well.
You can imagine I've been there 16 years and now you're shifting
gears. And responded to critics of his
relationship with Aaron Rodgers.To what extent do you think you

(01:08):
could have been a better mentor?Nowhere does it say that you
have to take that guy under yourwing and teach him the ropes.
But we began our chat by discussing Farbs attempt to get
back into shape following his retirement.
I know the first year and a halfafter you were after you
retired, you really didn't do much in terms of working out and

(01:30):
tell about the 5K he did, which is a little more than a three
mile run. How did you do on that I?
Retired and the following fall Iwas I was enjoying myself.
I was doing about what I thoughtI would do.
I like to to do stuff out of my property.

(01:51):
I would bike and run some with with my wife.
I was staying in in fairly decent shape, but I was eating
like I was 21 and then top shape.
That being said, not like top shape eating fish.
And I was eating everything likeI'll burn it off, you know, I'm

(02:11):
21, I'm fine. Well, all of a sudden I got on
the scale like around November and I had gained 25 lbs and I, I
didn't really think I knew my pants had gotten a little
tighter, but I thought I'm biking and running and so on.
Then I realized that regardless,you got to watch what you eat.

(02:31):
I was watching it, you know, whatever, but my wife and
several of her training buddies that that same fall year after I
had retired were were running ina 5K here in town for one of the
local churches that put it on and there's two hundred 250
people signed up. So so I drop her on the way.

(02:52):
They're talking about the, the run and you know, and I'm, I'm
listening to him. And I said, and honestly, and
I've, I've, I told the story andyou probably heard that I didn't
know what a 5K was. I didn't know mileage wise what
that equated to. Didn't, didn't care because I'd
probably ran a mile non-stop maybe once in the previous eight

(03:13):
years. There was no reason for me to do
that. And why would I do it again?
You know, I'd go out and run half a mile or quarter of a
mile, bike a little bit. So I said, they're, they're
talking. I said, you know what, I think
I'll run with you guys today. And they were like, oh, OK.
And I said, look, I, I I don't think I can keep up with you.
But I was kind of saying that like a little, a little

(03:35):
braggingly, like I don't, I don't think I can but but I
mean, I can run non-stop. I said how far is 5K?
And I said 3.1. I said no problem.
Did you think that you'd kick their ass?
I didn't think I would. I would, I would beat them, I
thought, because I knew that they had been doing this over
and over. But I just, I thought, OK, I, I

(03:56):
can run it non-stop. I didn't know anything about
pace. I didn't have a Garmin watch.
My wife had all this stuff. They talking pace and we're
going to, we got to start off doing this.
I'm thinking, what's the big deal about pace?
I mean, I, you know, you pace me, I pace you.
I had no clue what they're talking about.
But I said I can do it. So there was all these people

(04:18):
and I didn't care about signing up, getting a number and, and
you know, a belt and all the stuff didn't.
So all these people waiting, youknow, they're, they're getting
loose. And I was, I was, so I told, I
told the group, I said I'm goingto ease through the woods right
up here. And so when you get like 50
yards up, I'm going to jump out with you.
I didn't want to make a big scene or anything.
I said, OK, that's fine. So I'm waiting and they start

(04:41):
them and here they come and it'son bike trail here in town.
So it's kind of congested. So everyone's kind of falling in
line and I jump out with them and I start running their pace.
And honestly, I was probably 50 yards into it.
As I think back, what was the first thing, what was the worst?
And it was, it's a toss up. I thought I was going to have a

(05:03):
heart attack and my calves were going to explode.
And it was like, which one's going to stop me first?
So I'm so I'm running within my end.
And again, I don't have a pace watching that, but I knew this
was way too fast. So I'm like, oh, you guys go
ahead. I'm just going to kind of slow
down, little day. No, I mean, if I didn't slow

(05:23):
down, I was going to die. Bruises the ego a little bit. 50
yards into it, I'm thinking thisis awful.
So I'm walking, you know, I, I got all these people passing me
and most of the people I knew, little old ladies past me.
Hey, you're doing good, Brett, That's a thank you.
And I'd walk some, I'd run, I'd walk a little bit.

(05:45):
And I said, well, I can run, I can do it now.
I'd make it 100 yards. I'm like, I just got done
playing football like a year ago.
I mean, I'm supposed to be an athlete.
I think the the icing on the cake was like what?
I finished in like 48 minutes, alot of walking, some running and

(06:06):
48 minutes. I couldn't tell you what a good
5K was, but that's embarrassing for a not too far out of
retirement athlete. But all these kids were past me
and I would when I would run, I'd kind of pass the kids back
up, but then I would walk and then they would, you know, they
were running the whole time. And like they passed me the last
time and it eventually beat me. They were like, oh, Mr. Brett,

(06:28):
you're doing so good. Keep it up, keep it up.
And I'm walking at the time. So I was like, you know, I'm, I
mean, that's kind of the way I've done my whole career.
I mean, something has to motivate me.
Something has to challenge me. And I wasn't really challenged
at that point. I'm done with playing.
There's really nothing left to, to do necessarily.

(06:51):
I kind of told myself when I retired and a lot of guys do
this is like, I ain't doing nothing.
I'm not working out. That's all I've done.
I mean, you're paid to do that. You're told to do that.
And if you don't, you get fined.And, and after a while it's
just, it's work. And that's the kind of the way
I, I looked at it. And then all of a sudden it
changed. And I said, you know, I'm going

(07:12):
to, I'm going to challenge myself.
I'm going to say how fast I can run a 5K.
Why I just AM? And aren't you working out more
now almost than when you? Were playing yeah you know now
I. I mean, there's there's.
It's almost much like how I've done my whole career.
I mean, I play golf, but then all of a sudden I really got

(07:34):
serious in golf. And I mean, I'm cleaning my
balls. I've got a little dot on them
and scraping the grooves out made it.
I don't even play golf anymore. You know, I, I kind of dove in
deep was in it for a while and then now I hope as far as the
training aspect of it goes, because this is, this is your
life you're talking about. I think you can, you can get

(07:57):
into something too much too great.
And then there's also the, the flip side where you, you do
nothing. I enjoy going out running,
biking, you know, you, you feel better.
I, I'd like to think that I'm, you know, I'm, I'm delaying the,
the adverse effects that come along with with playing and

(08:19):
aging. I'd like to thank that at least.
I think a big part of it is the mental, the mental game that you
play with yourself. But I feel, I feel better.
I feel a lot better Monday mornings or you know, I think
back to what it was like after agame and it was, it was as I got
older especially, it was the recovery.

(08:41):
I don't even want to say it was recovery.
It was just about when you started feeling better.
You played again and it was justa snowball effect.
And I don't have that anymore. You know, it's not to say that
the cumulate, the cumulative effect won't take its toll at
some point, but I'm trying to keep that at a minimum.
And I'll talk about that in a bit, but it's interesting.

(09:03):
I'd imagine somebody who saw youwhen you finished playing and
then saw you today. I mean, you're you know, there's
no gut on you. Obviously you're you're ripped
is sucked in, right? Yeah, right.
You're, you know, pretty ripped And I'd imagine, and I mean
better. I'm in better shape right now.
I know when you're and that's that's crazy.

(09:23):
Yeah. Why is crazy?
I don't know. I think because the, the
consensus is that a lot of the guys, when they're done, they're
done right? And before they know it, they've
let themselves go. Like we all do it.
I mean, I did it a couple years ago.
I was 25 lbs overweight. You know, if you saw a picture

(09:44):
of me, then you know I had some puffy cheeks and I look like I
was enjoying chocolate chip # cake, which I was.
Hey, nothing wrong with that, though you have to, you know I.
Still treat myself to to ice cream or we went to a movie last
night. I had some some caramel popcorn
and some Whoppers and so I need a run today.

(10:05):
By the way, thanks for reminding.
Me. There you go.
So you were offensive coordinator of the local high
school, the football team here for a couple years after you
retired. And I mean, you're in daily
practice during the weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 PM.
You would have games Friday nights, film sessions on

(10:27):
Sundays. Why do it?
Sometimes I ask myself that question because it was not
overly time consuming, but I hadto be there.
You know, I committed to doing it.
So if I wanted to go on a three day hunt, you know, I couldn't

(10:50):
do it. If I just wanted to, you know,
ride the tractor all day, I couldn't do it.
I had to, I had to stop at some point, go up and and work with
these kids. But I really enjoyed it.
It wasn't. It wasn't something I had always
thought I would do after I played the head coach here.

(11:11):
Who's still the head coach? He's been a head coach in
Mississippi. He's a legend, His name's
Neville Barr. All the years that I got ready
to go back and play and ESPN wascamped out and all that stuff,
all that footage was was at Oak Grove.
And Neville years and years ago,was gracious enough to allow me
to come work out there with the kids.

(11:32):
And I knew a lot of their families and stuff.
So it wasn't like, Oh my God, you know, Brett Farr is here.
I live in this community. I know most of these.
I obviously know a lot of these kids now, but they're their
families. And so Neville was like, you
know, it's good for our kids. And I said, you know, it's good
for me. It gives me.
We would be running stadiums andthese kids were killing me, but

(11:54):
I was pushing myself because I didn't want to, you know, we'd
be Brett Favre. You know, they did to a certain
degree, but it was pushing me. It was pushed me and it and it
also gave me kids to throw to. So Neville would say, look, when
you retire someday, I'd like foryou to to coach with me, be my
offense coordinator and I you know, I would always kind of oh

(12:17):
sure, yeah, no problem. That will.
But it backed my mind. I was like, no way, no way.
And so when I retired, he, they,they came calling.
And at first I told him, no, my first year I did, I didn't
coach. And then then he said, come on,
you know, I'm really just. And I knew he was he was getting

(12:40):
to the latter part of his his career.
He'd never won A state championship, had gotten close.
It was a challenge. And I, you know, I knew the
commitment, the time commitment.I knew it was not like college
or pros. Were you there from from
daylight to dark and then some? And it's a year round job.
So I said, OK, I'll try it. And I and I just committed to

(13:03):
the, you know, to to being thereevery day.
And honestly, I didn't know whatI didn't.
In fact, I would told Deanna like the first night.
I said I don't like the night before I first practice.
I said I don't know what kind ofcoach I'm going to be.
I knew I knew football, but thatand how you relate it to someone
or two different things. You know, how I digest things

(13:24):
and understand it and try to relate that you may go, I have
no idea what you're talking about.
You know, you're not a good teacher, you know, So that was
that was the big challenge for me and.
We'll tell about the what you were told by your Packers head
coach when you were a young Packers quarterback and how that

(13:46):
influenced how you handled the situation with one of the young
quarterbacks you were coaching. Yeah.
And I, you're probably referringto when Mike Holmgren basically
put it in the simplest way. I was, I was good at times.
I was not so good at times. I was up and down, you know, and

(14:07):
in Pro Football, pro baseball, pro basketball, there's not a
lot of room for marginal or maybe a little less than that,
especially football. You have 16 games.
We can't afford to give too manyaway.
Baseball may be a little bit different, but there, you know,
I think there was a tremendous upside with me and I think Mike

(14:28):
Holman saw that. But when I say mutiny and I
can't remember the exact game, but it was in my second year and
the coaches more or less had voted and I, you know, I, I
don't know exactly how it went down, but more or less voted
that. Let's go with the with the other
quarterback. And so Homer and was like, you

(14:52):
know what, I'm going to give himanother chance now.
This was told to me later. A week to later, he calls me
into his office And I would, youknow, I think part of my success
is based on I was naive, not knowing any different.
You know, I thought, what the heck's a big deal?

(15:13):
And and I was kind of out, you know, out in the dark, You know,
he he says, Brett, you know, thecoaches, we kind of want they
want to go in a different direction.
But I've told them no, that and he may have been pulling my leg,
but I think that's part of beinga good coach, a good teacher.
He said, I told him no, that I'mgoing to I'm either going to go

(15:34):
to the top or I'm going to go down with you.
And collectively, we need to allhave that mentality.
So I'm with you no matter what. I'm with you now again.
He may have been saying for another week, but I won't tell
him. I, I don't know, but that was a
huge vote of confidence for me. I just felt for whatever reason

(15:56):
that, you know, I mean, I know he was the head coach and he,
he, if he said don't play him orplay him, I mean, he had that
authority. And so I just felt really
confident that and I, and I started playing much better.
That really happened my first year as a, as a coach here at

(16:17):
Oak Grove. And our, our young quarterback,
our last game, we were not goingto the playoffs, but he had
showed he had one more year remaining.
He had showed tremendous upside,but he also had great kid.
I love Kirk to death. We had a lot of a lot of fun
together. And I, I wanted to strangle him
sometimes. And I would tell him that I

(16:37):
said, you know, these coaches athalftime of our last game, they
had actually said, let's put theother guy in.
And, and I was ready to do the same thing because, I mean, I
was always trying to push him and, and connect with him and we
would, but we wouldn't. And I was trying to get him to
become tougher, not so much physically, you know, yeah, but

(17:00):
more mentally and not, not pass the buck off on the other guys,
not whine, not complain. It's not, it's an extremely
bright kid, which was different than me.
I was not extremely bright, I was just extremely hard headed.
But he they're ready to bench. I said, look, give me one more
chance, one more chance and let me talk to him.

(17:23):
And they said, OK, because everycoach had voted to, to let's
let's get ready for next year with the other guy.
And I went and pulled Kirk asideand I told him and I said, and I
told him the truth. I said, look, they they're ready
to not only bench you, but run you off You're whining, you're
complaining, it's someone else'sfault.
You know, you need to decide what you want to do.

(17:46):
If you want to play, I'm behind you.
I'm going to let you play the second-half.
And this is your chance to show them what you can do when I'm
going to playoffs. And he said, OK, OK, Brett, I'll
I'll do what I can. And he played lights out
second-half following year. He has a great year.
We win the state championship and in a in a it wasn't the same

(18:10):
as winning the Super Bowl, but Ireally there was such a reward
in it that I never, I mean, it was it was there was such a
reward in in coaching those two years.
And I and I only stopped coaching because our daughters
is starting on the high school volleyball team and they play
the same time. You wanted to be.
I wanted. To be at every game, right?

(18:31):
And they play Tuesdays, they play Thursday.
Sometimes we had to go off for weekend tournaments and I wanted
to be there and and I wouldn't have been able to had I had our
coach, so that was the only reason I stepped down.
In winning that state title was far more satisfying, though,
than you would have ever expected.
You know what it was, it really was special.
It, it had, it was different because I, you know, I, I had

(18:55):
won, been a part of the Super Bowl winning team and that, you
know, that it's hard to compare that, but in a weird, smaller
sort of way, it, it felt the same, you know, and that's, I
think from a coaching, from a teaching standpoint, that's what
that's why you do it. Not necessarily win the state

(19:18):
championship. That would be great.
But when you see that you make an impact on a on a young man or
young woman's life in in a positive way and and that you
did something good or, you know,just for in, in a a fraction of
that is you, you coach a play oryou coach one move or just

(19:39):
something. And then they struggle to do it.
They struggle to do it. They struggle to do it.
And all of a sudden they do it. You you go, yeah, you know, they
get it. You know, I mean, you feel like
you're really doing something in.
And that was so much different than when I was playing because
I was on the other side of it. Maybe in the latter part of my
career. I I looked at things like a
coach or as a coach. I wasn't as naive.

(20:03):
I kind of saw things like we played a team that I knew we
didn't stand a chance of beating.
I knew we didn't stand a chance of beating.
When I was 25, I thought we can beat anybody and that's kind of
the way you should approach it. But I looked at it more from a
coach's standpoint. So that may be the only

(20:23):
difference in the latter part ofmy career was kind of like the
last two years of coaching. But it was, it was hard to be in
a situation where I couldn't control anything.
I, I could call a play, but I couldn't throw it.
That was the tough part. And I find like watching my
daughter play volleyball. I don't know anything about
volleyball. She would crush me in
volleyball, but I, I want to go out there and spike it for, or I

(20:45):
want to go serve it for, I want to get that block.
But you can't. You just got to sit there and
and be a fan and it's tough. I want to run through some
stories that are kind of funny and get get you to quickly
recall them. It seemed like you and your
buddies growing up for up for whatever and tell about the BB

(21:09):
in your brother's chin. Well, I always, yeah, I shot my
old brother in the chin with ABBgun and people.
You did what? And I said, well, it was his
fault. What do you mean it was his
fault? He wasn't the one pulling the.
Trigger. He let me put it up to his chin
and it was an old Red Ryder BB gun and you could shake it.

(21:32):
You could, you could hear if there were BBS in it and there
was you, you shook it. There was no BBS.
And so like when you would shootit was air.
You know, it was air rifle. You you pump it up and if there
was no BB in it and you pull thetrigger air would, you know, pop
out of it. So I said, I don't know how I

(21:53):
don't know which one actually said let's let's see what that
feels like up against my chin. But I'm going to say he did.
So I said OK, and I put it up tohis chin and lo and behold,
there was ABB in it. And so he got shot in the chin.
You know, moral that story. Don't every weapon is loaded

(22:14):
regardless. Don't ever.
And that you know, that's a goodexample, but better him than me
and course who got spanked for it.
I did. When I explained to my dad he he
wanted to see what it felt like with the air on his chin and so
it was his fault. But Needless to say, I think I
got beat with a black rubber hose.

(22:35):
You're the one that did shoot him.
I. Did pull the trigger, but I
mean, I mean he helped out. How did you once knock somebody
out during a potato fight? I guess I had a pretty good
right arm. Yeah, you're right.
We were rambunctious. We were into everything.

(22:57):
This one particular time we wereout throwing potatoes at at each
other. And I wasn't trying to knock
someone out, but I say a local neighbor.
I mean, it was, it was like a couple miles up the road was
over and I just happened to hit him the right place at the right
time with a potato and knocked him out cold.

(23:18):
And Brick said your brother. Once my old brother, he took a
beating from me I hit him one time with a brick, had rushed
him to the hospital, cut him up under his eye, I.
Mean this was intentional. Was I mean you?
Guys, you guys were throwing bricks, BB gun.
I was not trying to hurt him with ABB gun with a brick.
I was trying to hurt him. He and A and a buddy of his were

(23:39):
actually, they were harassing meand they were trying to hold me
down, beat me up, all this stuff, typical whatever.
And so I got away. I was actually going up the
steps in our barn and they were coming up and I, I warned them.
I said I had a brick and I said if you come, I'm going to throw

(24:00):
it at you. And they kept coming.
So I threw it and guess who got a weapon for that?
I did, but I I had no choice. You you dated your wife for 12
years before you got married andI guess she kind of, it was part
of the crew when you guys were younger.
Did you really have her jump offthe second story into the

(24:22):
shallow end of a pool? Once she had no choice, me and
my brother we. Right.
I mean, the shallow end was the close in, so you didn't want you
wanted to make it. So you take off running off of
our pool house. And, you know, and I think back,
if my kids were doing that, I'd be like worried sick thinking of

(24:44):
all the things that I did when we would be swimming in the
river with Gators. I mean, not necessarily there.
If I saw a Gator on the river, Iwould not go out there and swim.
But maybe three days later, I wouldn't be, you know, I mean,
but you and I now are thinking that's that's, that's stupid.
Well, we're jumping off this pool house and we thought

(25:04):
nothing of it. But now I think, you know, 1
misstep or you know, you, you trip, don't you fall and hit the
concrete. But we didn't, you know, we
didn't think that way. We just knew run as fast you
could, jump as far as you could,you would be fine.
And so we pulled Deanna with us and well, and you know, I go

(25:25):
back to my brother being shot inthe chin.
She got up there, you know, so she, she sort of was willing.
And then we just took her the rest of the way and we, you
know, she was always not necessarily up for whatever, but
she reluctantly would, would trythings.
End up in the ER a lot as kids. You would think so.

(25:48):
I mean my my older brother and my younger brother did a few
times because I hit my younger brother in the mouth with a
aluminum bat one time and had rushing.
Not intentional. Not necessarily.
I knew he was there. OK, but that forewarned him that
we were playing baseball. You need to get out of the way
and he's running around like through a sprinkler.
And he was he was a little over.He knew better, but he didn't

(26:10):
know better. He he really did after that and
just cracked him in the mouth, knocked all his teeth out and
had rushed him to hospital. And my older brother was
allergic to everything growing up.
He's since grown out of all of them.
He's allergic to bees, cats, a lot of different foods.
So I just remember one time there was a big red walls nest

(26:32):
under a a window eave. And so he looks under, you know,
and right away danger. And I looked at it and said
opportunity. And on the.
Smacked it with a broom and got him stung and, but by the time
we got into the hospital and made his head was like that big,
you know, And I thought it was the neatest thing, but we get

(26:57):
along right now. I'm glad, yeah.
When when you first got drafted in your first like big press
conference that you had, you remember the Atlanta Falcons.
You make some joke about where you grew up.
What happens to your parents mailbox?
You know that was. It was intended really to it was

(27:20):
intended as the situation. Yeah, I mean, I love, right?
I was very proud of where I was from, right?
It was completely taken the wrong way.
Yeah, you know, but you know, I was, I was talking, I made it.
I I made it. I guess it came across as being
like hillbillies and moonshiningand gambling and all this stuff.

(27:41):
And, and I didn't mean it in AI know it sounds crazy, but I
didn't mean it in a negative way, derogatory way.
I was proud of where I came from.
But some people didn't see it that way.
And that's the case a lot of times in those situations.
But yeah, my my parents caught alot of everything is fine and

(28:02):
dandy now, but there for a long time they they caught a lot of
Flack. I can't even remember what
happened. I don't know if they.
Just told somebody shot up theirmailbox.
I was going to say that it got knocked over or something, but
you're right. You're right there.
I mean that. I just remember, like my parents
saying, Gee, thanks, you know, you get to go off and live
somewhere else. We have to be here every day.

(28:23):
Yeah. But yeah, you live and learn.
When you were growing up, you didn't always play quarterback.
You were put in once a wide receiver, My first Well.
The first time I ever played I was a wide receiver.
And I mean, I don't even know ifthat qualifies as playing, but
it was my fifth grade year I guess, and got one of the few

(28:45):
times the ball was ever thrown at my school period, even when I
play quarterback. Just happened to be when I was
receiver and I caught it sort ofand fell on the ball and got the
wind knocked out and started crying and I thought this
receiver position sucks. I'm, you know, I'm I got to play
something else. And actually after that play,

(29:07):
after being a whiny baby, I got moved to quarterback and never
looked back. So.
How would you describe the area that you grew up in?
Very rural, although it's growing some a lot more so
today, but growing up it was. The kill.

(29:29):
Yeah, I mean, there was a lot. You didn't bike to your
neighbor's house. There wasn't like a.
And why not everybody lived too far away.
From each other. There wasn't Rd. bikes back
then. You know, you had like a little
Huffy with tassels hanging off and you just you didn't do it.

(29:52):
There wasn't like community pickup football games, baseball
games because there just was notcommunities.
I mean there you were patchy. You know, people were, were
spread out whenever people had to ride.
But ride a bus 4550 minutes to to school and you may have

(30:12):
passed 3 houses along the way. You know, maybe it was just, it
was, it was out in the country, but hard working as we kind of
talked early about naive and notnot knowing what you're missing
and stuff. I mean, for me, all I knew was
football and baseball. My dad was a football coach.
He, he was driver's Ed teacher at my school for 30 years.

(30:36):
My mom was a special education teacher.
We didn't go on trips. I never skipped school.
The fact that I went 12 years without missing the day of
school, it's hard to miss when your parents are driving you to
school. And so that's all I knew and
there wasn't any other distractions out there.

(30:57):
Your father, as you mentioned, was the head coach at the high
school you played at. What do you think you must learn
from him? You know, The thing is with my
dad, you know, and it never bothered me because I was one of
those that I was self motivated enough.
And a lot of, and I, I had this conversation with people all the

(31:19):
time when you talk about what itwas like with their dad growing
up, especially down in the South.
And it was this tough love. He may tell other people, Boy,
I'm proud of that Boy, I never heard that.
I, I know he was proud of me, but it was almost like this fear
of, of being soft, you know, from his standpoint or from,

(31:44):
from, you know, he had to be tough all the time.
And even when I'd made it, you know that.
But that was OK because, you know, regardless of how I played
in any game, I never, I mean, there were sometimes after a
game, I was like, you know, I played pretty good.
You know, I may not tell people that, but I felt that way.

(32:04):
But even in those times, I wouldsay, but you know, that that was
that's what's tough about playing the game for me, or was
tough is at some point the expectations were so great even
I couldn't that I placed upon us.
The better you play, the tougherit is to outdo yourself, if that
makes any sense. And that's the way my dad was

(32:24):
like after a game. I mean, that's the way I looked
at my career and the way I played.
I was always, I was never like, OK, finally, you know, I've
arrived. I mean, that's the way I need to
play it. Was it?
I never felt that way. Yeah.
Was I content at times, but I always push myself.
So what he would do or say didn't really bother me a whole

(32:48):
lot because I was still, you know, internally was the same
way, but I did. It's at times would be like
thinking, I wouldn't say anything, but I'd be thinking,
you know, I mean, a good job would be good to hear right now,
you know, like where you played well, but odd boy, you know, it
wasn't bad, but you can play a little bit better than that.

(33:11):
Or what, what happened on that one play?
I'd be like, it might be 70 goodplays and there was 1 bad one.
And he would, he would bring that to light.
And I, you know, I think part ofgrowing up, part of being a
parent is learning from your mistakes, learning from what

(33:33):
your parents say or as a parent,learning from past mistakes that
maybe your parents made or said or, and you know, he, but he, it
was, it was tough love. I mean, and he was a, he was a
coach first with me. And I would say to him at times,
like when I was playing high school football for him, I said,

(33:54):
Dad, I think we ought to throw it some well, I think you ought
to let me run the damn team. And, and you just, you do what I
say. I'm like, you know, kind of Gee,
thanks. You know, I wouldn't say that,
but I'm like, if you want your son to get a scholarship now, I
wouldn't say that to him, but I'm thinking to myself, surely

(34:15):
he wants me to get a scholarship.
He's got to throw the ball. But but Long story short, it
worked out and we didn't throw the ball and that makes him look
like. It rocked me, except it did
almost prevent you from getting a scholarship because you did
have this strong arm. Yeah, but he didn't look at it
that. Way and.

(34:36):
You're absolutely right. You know, to him almost was 100%
guarantee, right. You know, it all worked out in
the end and that's the way he helooked at things that he didn't
have to change his coaching style or or whatever.
And and I know, I do know that he he was not going to change,

(34:59):
even even if it was for the better of the team when it in
regards to his son. So he was not going to throw,
even if it would have helped theteam, because he didn't want
people to think that he was playing favoritism to his son.
And and that's wrong. But you know, I'm not saying

(35:21):
let's do what's best for me and the heck with the rest of the
team, but but you should, you know, you should help your son
out if he's the best player. And he he but yeah, he almost
stick to my guns. And it was crazy thing my older
brother played for him. They threw it all the time and I

(35:42):
was much better thrower than my brother.
He may say differently. You think he was tougher on you?
Oh, absolutely. And and Scott, my older brother,
and Jeff, my younger brother, would probably say the same
thing. For whatever reason, I and only
he could answer that. Of course he's gone now, but
only he can answer that. I my only I, I just think that

(36:04):
he saw maybe more than me, not anything against my two
brothers. Scott and I were a lot alike
size wise, throwing. I probably was a little bigger
and and maybe a little more physical than him.
I was taller than Jeff. But maybe dad saw something in
me that set me apart from those two.
I don't know. And so maybe he was hard on me

(36:27):
because of that. You were out on a golf course
and you, you know, didn't have your cell phone with you.
Your wife calls the teammate that you're with and he turns to
you and tells you the tragic news that your father had passed
away, had a heart attack. You have Monday Night Football

(36:49):
the next day that you're supposed to be playing in and
are left with the decision of whether to play in the game or
fly home to Mississippi. Why do you decide to play?
It was easy. It was a it was a tough choice,
but it was an easy choice, if that makes any sense.
Up to that point, any, any conversations with my dad always

(37:14):
involve football. As far back as I could remember.
And as I look back at even today, if I saw a picture of me
as a as a child before, you know, I could remember and I
just see a picture. It has to do with football or
baseball not working on the truck.

(37:34):
You're not sawing down trees, not, you know, going to a
business meeting that not, you know what it was football or
baseball. And that's, that's what we did.
That's who we were. That's what we talked about.
And when I say that that's what he would have wanted me to do,

(37:56):
that's that's the truth. Tough, tough to do it in those
circumstances. But that was the, I look at it
this way. Thankfully for me, I was not in
the situation of my two brothersand my sister to have to be
there where I could kind of get away from it.
There's nothing I can do by being there.

(38:19):
But I'm, I'm, I was so relieved,not necessarily at that moment,
but as I look back on that moment, I was so relieved that I
had football to take, take me away from that.
You know, I had something to distract my mind and all the

(38:39):
teammates. It was such an amazing moment in
such a tragic circumstance to see how the guys rallied around
me and I really at that point really understood what a team
and a family we really was about.
Now the tough part was I knew I I needed to play.

(39:01):
I knew I wanted to play, but I didn't want to play and play
bad. I felt like playing and playing
bad was not honoring my dad. Playing and playing at a high
level was. But you know, I could have never
have imagined to play the way I did.
I was so fearful that I would just lay an egg, understandably

(39:24):
so. I was more fearful that more so
than that, I would have played the way I did.
And that's apparently the only game you've ever been really
scared for. Yeah, You know, I, that was the
by far the most nervous I've ever been for a game, Super
Bowls included. I think the only one that would

(39:48):
be close would be Green Bay and Lambeau when I was with
Minnesota. But still, you know, the
pressure that I felt to play thebest I've ever played right
after my dad died was I I can't even.
Relate to you how that felt and and because of that, I don't

(40:11):
think you ever. I don't think there's a whole
lot of good that comes out of like a scared type of
nervousness. I think there's, you know, there
is a, you know, a fine line there And I thought I I was on
the I'm going to screw up side more than I was on.
It's OK to be a little nervous and, and anxious and excited,

(40:33):
but I, I felt more on the, you know, I'm going to lay an egg
and that's, that's never a good,good approach.
I don't believe you like giving speeches, but you asked the head
coach to speak to the team. What did you say?
You know, I don't even remember exactly what I I've only done
that a couple of times as a leader of of the team for 20
years, the guys that I played with would probably tell you

(40:57):
Brett didn't talk very much. Now when I played, I was
probably more vocal. I was never a rah rah guy or but
I was always a motivational guy.But in the moment, not like
prior to the game, you didn't see me call the team up and and
give this new rockney type of speech.
It just wasn't my nature. Even though I, I wasn't a quiet

(41:19):
guy, I would kind of turn into adifferent guy like once I was
never controversial until a game.
I would yell at a referee or or get get hostile where if I saw
the guy on the street, I, I would never complain about a
call. That was just not my nature.
And that's the way I was with, with, with speaking with the

(41:40):
team. And, you know, I, I don't
remember exactly what I said, but I think it was more probably
along the lines of not sure how I'll play.
You know, I more or less what I've told you that I want to
play at a high level for obviousreasons, but we still had a
chance for the playoffs. I do remember that we needed to

(42:00):
win that game and the next game and need some help from from
other teams. So it was crucial that we won.
And I didn't want to take away or distract from what our main
focus was and has to get to the playoffs.
And I think the guys that that Iplayed with over the years would
say that that that's, that's true that his his focus was the

(42:21):
team. And so I didn't want to take
away, but I needed the guy's help more than anything.
I need your help to carry me through.
I don't want to play and play bad and hurt this team.
And you say, well, you had an excuse.
I didn't want an excuse, but I did need their help.
And that's more or less what I tried to get across.
As the players are running out, you're playing Oakland.

(42:42):
In Oakland, the Raiders fans aredoing player after player after
player. Then you come out.
What's the crowd? Reaction, literally a standing
ovation. And and you're right, even in
the best of circumstances for their home team, they don't get
that type of response right. So I was, I was, and if Deanna

(43:06):
was here right now, she'd tell you the same thing.
The, the response from the Oakland fans was from fan.
I mean, whether it was Oakland or anywhere else, it just
happened to be Oakland, which makes it even more impressive
because of how how tough they are.
The, the, the respect that they gave was unbelievable.

(43:28):
We had a police escort after us because Deanna charted a plane.
We flew back to Green Bay. We got, it was right before
Christmas. We got a Christmas presents from
under the tree. We loaded them up the plane.
We went to Mississippi for for the funeral and the wake.
So it was a it was a a crazy couple of days.
But so right after the game, instead of flying back to the

(43:49):
team, we, we, we went ahead right away and they gave a
police escort that would make, Ithink the president blush.
I mean, it was, it was that special.
I mean, it was and that so and it started with the standing
ovation as I run out, you know, and I've played in Oakland, a
Fairmount. It ain't usually that way.

(44:10):
So I I was truly thankful to. You You had 399 yards, 4
touchdowns, one of the finest performances of your career.
How much did that mean to you? Oh my goodness, there was better
what I had envisioned or how I had envisioned playing, which

(44:31):
obviously was was good. I I had envisioned playing well,
it was not so I've far exceeded what I would had hoped out how I
would play. You know, I mean, there were
there were some of the best throws.
As I think back to that game, there were a couple throws that
that would rank as maybe some ofmy best ever.

(44:55):
Really. But there were also some that
had no chance of being caught byour guys.
But yet they were. And so it was just one of those
nights. You started for a record 18 1/2
years straight in the NFL, 297 games or 321 games including
playoffs. What's the most difficult part

(45:17):
of, and I should say that's the record that you're most proud
of, What's the most difficult part of doing that?
Boy, I don't, you know, that's Icould give you a long list
physically. You know, I would think if you
polled 10 people who knew a little bit about football and
you said what would be the toughest, you probably would get

(45:41):
more physically. I would say from 8 out of 10
would probably say physically the demand that you face week in
week out that it's some somewhere along the way you're
going to get hurt bad enough to not play whether you want to
play or not that something's going to happen.
And I would say that that would be the case.

(46:03):
The law of averages is going to catch up with you 18 1/2 years
sprain and ankle bad enough you tear tear a knee ligament, you
break a thumb and I say that because I did all those or you
you come down with the flu so bad.
You know you, I mean you would think that that so that from AI

(46:27):
mean there was times that when Ibroke my thumb, for example, I
thought I didn't think, OK, the streak's over.
Thumb on the throwing hand. Thumb on the throwing hand.
If you, if you just asked me or said to me before I'd ever
broken my thumb, if you said, you know, what would you think a
broken thumb when you throw in hand would be enough to keep you

(46:48):
out? And that's absolutely a thumb on
my throwing hand. I mean, I'm done.
But yet I ended up playing and and playing great with that torn
knee ligament. I can't tell you many times I've
hurt my ankle. I can't tell you how many times
I've separated my shoulders, hadconcussions.

(47:11):
But mentally, you know, in orderto play that long, just say you
withstand the physical part of it.
It's tough to be good week in week out consistently long
enough that they don't have to worry about that position where
they just, you know, he's got that handle.
If you go four or five weeks in a row where you absolutely suck,

(47:34):
they're going to they're going to play someone else.
They just they have to you can'tgo on a slump for too long.
And so I that from that standpoint, so physically if
you're OK, it's being good consistently enough for a long
time. Well, it's interesting you say
that because your brother has said before that part of the
reason behind the streak is, youknow, if you go down that gives

(47:56):
somebody else an opportunity to start at quarterback and and if
you don't go down, somebody elsedoesn't have that opportunity.
So how how much was there? That is sort of I.
Always. I always had the little man on
my shoulder saying, remember howyou played?
You came in the game because theguy in front of you got hurt and
no one knew who you were, and now no one knows who he is.

(48:21):
And that's the way it works. And so you need to always be
looking over your shoulder. And even when I had won three
MVPS in a row from the outside looking in, you may have thought
that guy's not worried about hisjob.
I always was worried about my job because you're only I mean,
I was never I was naive and, youknow, come across as old, you

(48:46):
know, country dumb guy. But I knew that you were play
away from never playing again. And someone else comes in and
their first throw is a touchdownand the crowd goes wild and it's
not about you and how quickly they can forget you.
I knew that. I knew that.

(49:08):
So I always reminded myself of that and always pushed myself
and motivated myself to never ifif I could get myself up and
come back and play. I didn't necessarily do it
because I didn't want the other guy to play, although that was
part of it. I did it because I love to play

(49:29):
and I wanted the guys to be ableto count on me no matter what.
And I took a lot of pride in that.
But I also knew that they'll they'll forget you pretty
quickly. What expectations did you have
for yourself when you entered the NFL?
You know my I tell people this all time I play 20 years.
There wasn't a day that went by and my growing up in Mississippi

(49:53):
that I did not dream of playing football, but I never dreamed
all the dreams that I had about football.
We're all and but not too many people can say this first of all
came true, but we're far exceeded by what I actually
accomplished. And that's, that's such an
amazing, amazing thing because most people, it's like, you

(50:14):
know, I dreamed of this, but I never got that chance or
whatever. For me, I dreamed of, of playing
in the, in the National FootballLeague.
I used to, I loved Archie Manning.
I was a Saints fan. It was tough back then, but I
was really was a Cowboys fan. I love Rodger Staubach and I, I
was both of those guys. I was out in the yard all the
time. I, you know, last second, you

(50:35):
know, I was running around and Ijust envisioned being them
running out on the field in the Superdome as a St. like Archie
Manning did, running out as Rodger Staubach and, and, and
that's really what I dreamed of.I didn't dream of winning three
MVPS. I didn't dream of playing 297

(50:57):
straight games. I didn't dream I I, I did dream
of playing the Super Bowl, but Ididn't Pro Bowl, all those other
things. I didn't let it Hall of Fame's
all that never crossed my mind. I just wanted to play And, and
then before I knew it, all this other stuff had happened.

(51:18):
And so my expectations were to always play and whatever came
along with it came along with it.
But so it mean that, you know, it's such an amazing thing to
say that you're you out, you know, you, you outdid your
dream. How competitive are you?

(51:39):
Well, I, I don't know how competitive I am now.
I probably still am. It's just hard to, you know, how
do you relate that to play in the National Football League?
But when I was playing, I think that's what set me apart from
for most of the guys, it wasn't that I was the tallest, the

(52:01):
fastest, the biggest, the smartest, but I was the most
competitive. I was determined that it, you
know, and then that filters down.
OK, What does that necessarily mean that you know, you
competitive is it's such a vagueword.
I, I knew no one could wanted towin as bad as I I wanted to win.

(52:24):
I just knew that and and I was determined that whatever I had
to do to win, I was going to do.If I had to block, if I had to
hand off, if I had to throw, if I had to come from behind, if I
had to work harder than the nextguy at whatever I had to do, I
was going to do. I I, I heard a story that you
challenged a teammate to a punt,kick and pass contest something

(52:50):
outside. It was a.
Past contest. A past contest and he ends up
beating you and you're furious. Well.
Actually, I'm thinking of he didn't beat me.
It was actually a good friend ofmine, Billy Joe Tolliver, who
was we're still great friends today.
And he was so much like me. It wasn't funny because he
thought he was the best. He thought he should have been a

(53:12):
starter. We were both.
He was second string, I was third string in Atlanta.
And we were so much alike. We hated each other.
I mean, technically we didn't hate each other, but we we
fought about everything. And he had a great arm, he did.
Is there a downside to being that competitive?

(53:33):
I don't know, I'm sure there's adownside to anything.
It worked for me. It's, it's a little more
disheartening when you lose something when you're so
competitive because it matters so much to you and the littlest
things matter to you, you know, and my wife is ultra competitive
too. And so even when we're on teams,

(53:57):
we're competing against each other, you know, and that's.
So I think the downside, if there is one, is that when
you're playing checkers, you, you love to play, you know, you
love to compete, you lose at checkers.
I mean, it's, I mean, it's not life or death, but you get the
point. I mean, it's, but again, stuff

(54:18):
matters to you, you know, I think it should, you know, some
matter more than others. Winning the Super Bowl matters
more than winning the game of checkers, I would think.
But I think the, the, the reallygood players, I would say most
of them are super competitive because it really matters to

(54:39):
them. Not only does it matter winning
or losing, but but being the best or being being an impact
player, being the one who I wanted to be the one who had the
ball. I wanted to be the one who made
a difference or did make a difference.
Of course I wanted to make a difference in a positive way.
I wanted to win the game. I didn't want to be watching

(54:59):
right. I want, as tough as it may be, I
wanted to be the one out there who who determined whether we
won or lost. What do you think's responsible
for your success? I thank God more than anything,
you know, there's some things wecan control, some things we
can't control. And the good Lord had blessed me
with, and it happens to a lot ofpeople are blessed with

(55:21):
something maybe that they know they have and then in some cases
they don't know they have. And it's, it's up to the parents
or, or a coach or a teacher or something to bring that out of
them. And of course my dad brought
that out of me. But I knew I had a gift.
I didn't know what I how far it would take me, but I knew I
could throw better than anyone. Now accuracy and learning to

(55:44):
read defenses and all those things had to come along with
it. But there's no one could
outthrow me. And I was just a little skinny
kid. It's like when I went to the LSU
football camp as a 15 year old kid, no one, they walked past me
and didn't think twice about me.I was that big around that
freckles. My knees were actually bigger

(56:05):
than my thighs. I mean, I just I came down and
kind of did like this and again,I would be the one pick last on,
but when I threw it, you know that everyone stopped and was
like, whoa, who is this? And that I knew that set me
apart and in this determination I knew that I had that I just

(56:30):
never, there was never one day that went by and I honestly can
say that that I didn't think I would make it.
Imagine how disheartening it would have been had I not made
it like, you know, I'm there's, there was never doubt.
That's the thing that I think about that is just as amazing to
me that not one day went by thatI thought, you know what I mean?
The chances are not good. I always thought the chances

(56:53):
were good. You mentioned your MVPS and
there's one year in particular Iwant to ask you about because as
part of the preparation for thisinterview, I just found it,
like, impressive and extraordinary what you went
through and the fact that you were still able to have great
success that year. You won an MVP and then have

(57:14):
success in the seasons after that.
And that's 1996. The first nine months of the
year were presumably really tough on you.
You know, you're now wife and daughter almost leave because of
your painkiller addiction. Your sister was arrested for
being in the car during a drive by shooting.
Your brother drives drunk, gets in an accident that kills your

(57:38):
close friend. What was the difficulty like for
you involved with going through all that?
Well, you know, I thank God thatI made it through, but I, you
know, and I don't want to sound like, I don't want to say that
selfishly because there were other people involved in all

(57:59):
this that were directly affectedor indirectly affected by the
trickle down effect, if you will.
The one constant through all that was football.
And it was a, for me, it was a good place to escape And, and I
shouldn't say hide, but, but I was able to just, it was kind of

(58:28):
like talking to someone when I play football.
Rather, it's kind of like going back to, you know, talking about
when my dad passed away. I would much rather have been
playing than to sit in a FuneralHome.
And that's just me. It gave me a way to escape but
also feel like I was actually doing something good.

(58:54):
You know, we're trying to do something good, you know that.
And it just so happens that thatwas the year we won the Super
Bowl, you know, go figure. You know, I and I, I say this
more so lately that as I've gotten older, you know, I, my,

(59:15):
my belief in God has gotten stronger.
But you, you, God's timing is not our timing.
And and you know, that's that's a perfect example of, you know,
why me or all it? And then all of a sudden, you
know, like you go from the worstto the best feeling and you
know, you, Oh, sorry, God, you know, but life goes on and we we

(59:41):
sure have and I sure have faced my demons and circumstances, you
know, not in like a lot of otherpeople.
It's just that some people that you don't know about, but being
able to overcome those and and doing something positive with

(01:00:02):
your life is is most important thing.
Not necessarily I made football games you've won, but just I
think a daily walk with with thepeople you confront, you know,
what type of impact do you leaveon them?
And and so I felt like football was a way to, it wasn't really

(01:00:25):
my focus, but it was a. I, I realized that over time
that I I've made a positive impact on people and if I
sucked, it would be different. But fortunately I didn't suck
enough that I could I could was able to withstand.
You know, I, I read the book youwrote many years back and I, I

(01:00:46):
was really surprised by how openand honest you were about the,
you know, Vicodin addiction, which also, you know, 96 same
period. What led to all of that
happening in your opinion? I don't think I can put my
finger on one one particular thing other than pain.

(01:01:07):
Pill addiction obviously startedbecause of pain.
Now there came a point, I don't know exactly when that point was
where it wasn't about the pain anymore.
It was about the effect. And what started out as
harmless, say harmless, I mean, I sprained ankle, my ankle's
killing me. Or a separated shoulder.

(01:01:30):
You take rightfully so, you takea couple pain pills, get through
the night. And by no means am I blaming it
on any person or, or football itself.
It's just, and some people more prone to addictions than others.
I mean, I, I can almost teach a class on addictions.
Not that I'm an expert, but somewhere in your genetic

(01:01:53):
makeup, you're probably more susceptible to to addictions
than others. And you just need the right
opportunity, you know, to kick start it.
And, and in my case that probably, you know, was first
separated shoulder or ankle or then it got to where I you
become a great manipulator and. In what ways?

(01:02:18):
When you were not hurt, you, you, You know, I needed a couple
more pain pills, man, My shoulder's killing me.
You know who? Who's going to argue?
To what extent did you feel likeat the time that you needed it
to play well? I don't think I need it.
Well, I it's been a long time, but I, I knew what I was doing.

(01:02:40):
I knew that I didn't necessarilyneed it, but I but I sure like
the way it felt and I knew it was wrong.
How did it feel? Well, you know, I tell people
all the time that I took 15 Vicodin ES at one time and they,
they're like, I didn't knock youout.

(01:03:01):
And I said I did totally the opposite.
I was, I was up. I was and, and that's kind of
the way with addictions too. I mean, you what it, what it's
supposed to do it It doesn't. So when you know, you take 2
pain pills, you're knocked out and you don't feel pain, you
wake up what, 4568 hours later, I would be up and just talking

(01:03:23):
and just, I mean, I was, I didn't want to sleep until about
10:00 the next morning when we were in offensive meetings is
about the only time I went to sleep.
Not a good time to want to sleep.
And, and I doze off of it, leaning back into the like a
coat rack in our quarterbacks meeting room.

(01:03:43):
And so I mean, I, it was, and this went on for a long time.
It wasn't just 96. How long that's when that's when
people knew about it because of the announcement.
I don't know. I mean, it started three years
before maybe. I mean, I just, I was taking
pain pills before that, but maybe not abuse them.

(01:04:05):
It it took a while before maybe I there, there's probably this
period where you don't, you don't really know that you're
abusing them. You don't really know that
you're manipulating the system. And then there comes a point
where you go, I really don't need these.
But when that exactly was, I don't know it.
Again, it was a long time ago, but.

(01:04:27):
How long were you taking 15 a day for?
You know, I don't remember how the how the the dynamics of it
work, but say 2 gave me an effect that I liked.
After a month, it it 2 didn't doanything.
So you needed three and it may have been less than that, and
then four and then, you know, maybe so on and so forth.

(01:04:48):
And again, I don't remember how long it took before you had to
graduate up to to more, but I knew that 15 was hard to come
by. It's hard, hard to get out a
month. A month's prescriptions was is
30. What is the 30 pills or
something, you know, depending on what they prescribed for you.

(01:05:10):
And I was going through that in 2 days.
Well, so I was having to hustle a lot and you know, I, I'd ask
this guy for pills and that guy for pills and that guy for
pills. And you know, I mean, after a
while it got, you know, I was going back around pretty
quickly. Did people start scratching
their heads like, Oh no. I mean, I was the last one to
know, you know, it's one of those things and no one knows

(01:05:31):
what's going on. But like my wife said, she goes
everyone knew, but I thought no one knew.
You mentioned sleep, I think that one of the side effects was
you only sleep like hour 2 hoursa night caused you to throw up a
lot. You would drink like gallons of
water, yet you wouldn't even be able to be, apparently.

(01:05:57):
The, the adverse effects, probably, it was probably good
that I was 232425 years old because you can, you can
overcome a lot because of your age.
If I sleep five hours now, I'm terrible the next day.
I need to, you know, it's harderas in a 40 year old award to get

(01:06:21):
a good night's sleep. For whatever reason.
You wake up, I guess you got to go to the bathroom a lot.
But now, not drinking, not taking pain pills, all that
stuff, I feel pretty good. But even then I I think back and
I go, wow, how in the world did I do it?
What happened at the 96 Espy's that made your wife confront you
about it? I probably about like some of

(01:06:44):
the other times where I just hadhad had taken too many pain
pills and drank at the same time.
Not a good combination. One of them is not a good, you
know, a good thing to do and just I can't.

(01:07:06):
I vaguely remember that situation, but I mean it.
I probably had promised her thatI wouldn't take pain pills and
again, thought I had everything under control and probably was
throwing up and and self destructing much like I had

(01:07:26):
before. And I'd had two seizures after,
after this incident that you're talking about.
One was in the hospital in GreenBay after an ankle surgery.
And I woke up all these doctors and, and Deanna and our oldest
daughter Brittany's, like, it looks like, you know, someone
had died. And I'm like, what's the deal?

(01:07:47):
And I said, you just had a, a seizure.
I'm like, for what? And then I had another one at
our house in Green Bay two nights before one of our games.
And all this was a result of a lack of sleep, which was because
brought upon because of pain pills.
So I mean, I was getting, and I,I just remember a meeting with

(01:08:10):
all kinds of doctors and neurologist.
And, and not to sound like a doctor, but more or less what I
was told was your, your brain, this computer, it's yours is
short circuiting because of the lack of, of sleep.
It's, you know, it's it, you need sleep.
And so I like to sleep as much as the next person, but I like

(01:08:31):
the effect of pain pills more atthe time.
So I was, it was, you know, a dangerous game.
And so the second one, really, you know, you think the first
one would scare you enough. It was the second one.
The second one scared me enough I thought because it wasn't that

(01:08:52):
far apart from the first one. And one seizure when you're not
a seizure person should be scaryenough.
But that that really struck fearin me.
How'd you quit? You know what, I'd love to give
you some big formula on how I quit, but I just, I had about

(01:09:13):
four pills left and was trying to figure out how I was going to
get more pills again. And I don't remember the day or
the exact moment, but it was, you know, not long after
actually this right before we won the Super Bowl, somewhere in
that, in that time frame. And I just, I mean, I had kind

(01:09:38):
of hit rock bottom. I mean, I, I don't say I
shouldn't even say kind of, I mean, I, even though things
around me seem like they were good internally, I, I'd hit rock
bottom and I, I said, I'm going to flush these down the toilet,
the remainders and, and, and I remember when I poured them in
the toilet and it started to flush.

(01:09:58):
I almost crawled in the toilet to go after them because I
thought, what in the world did you just do?
I mean, I just had such a dependency on those and it's
not, I was taking 15 a night. Any expert would tell you that's
not the way to wean yourself offof you.
Should you should start with 12 maybe and then 10 and slowly

(01:10:23):
decrease. I just went cold Turkey and I'm
not, I don't say that braggingly, but I know that that
was the worst month as far as any kind of recovery that I've
ever went to. I shook every night in cold
sweats and just it was a it was a constant battle a month or two

(01:10:44):
of what I do now and then now I can't believe I ever drank.
So, you know, there's that window that if you can get past,
that's why I look at if you can get past that hump and, and it's
different for everyone, but if you can do it, you know, I mean,
it's been so long that I think people who are close to me even

(01:11:07):
with, with almost say, you know,it wasn't that bad.
People have forgotten. Well, I mean, it's been over 20
years, you know, drinking. This is closing on 20 years and
I quit 98. I haven't had a drop since
Haven't missed it First couple months I did, but but now I mean
you can drink by me. It doesn't bother me when I

(01:11:28):
don't I'm not going to drink. I don't want to.
I'm not going to. I can say that in front of you
or when I'm by myself driving home.
I don't say well, maybe one I just I'm to a point where I'm
I'm beyond that. I've had it's been a long time
ago, but had my wisdom teeth cutout after I'd quit taking pain
pills and I wanted to take pain pills.
That had to be hard, right? That was extremely hard.

(01:11:51):
That was that was probably the toughest test I've ever had.
My mouth hurt so bad. But I I just and you know, I
think you, you gain you gain something in those times.
I don't recommend, you know, putting yourself through those
struggles all the time, but but when you win those battles, you
become stronger. And I can't tell you how many

(01:12:13):
times after games since I had quit taking pain pills that I
had, it crossed my mind and I was like, Nah, you know, just it
wasn't. I mean, I, I had, I had the
upper hand on it by that time. What do you remember from
blacking out on the final snap of your career?
I just remember when I got therewas no pain.

(01:12:36):
God pushed me. We're playing the University of
Minnesota, playing Chicago. Harmless, you know, I'd love to
to say that the guy hit me hard,but it it was just a push and
the field was solid ice almost hard cold threw a little swing
route to the left. The guy pushed me and I just
kind of slipped, lost my footingand I fell over and just hit the

(01:13:00):
left side of my head, which that's probably been done
thousands of times. And the next thing I remember, I
was snoring or trainer had came out on the field.
Eric Sugarman, we call him Sugarand he's like, hey, buddy, you
all right? I was kind of laying on my
stomach with my head on the turnto to my right a little bit and

(01:13:22):
I was snoring. I was taking a good nap and and
he says you're right. And I said, hey, I was snoring.
It's kind of like he woke me up.He said, I know, but he had a
concussion and I thought no pain, nothing.
It was just in fact, I kind of warmed up a little bit.
I was freezing before then and Igot up and I kind of looked over
and I said what a couple of Bears, Urlacher and Lance Briggs

(01:13:44):
feel those guys are clapping. So what are they doing here?
And I think I took one step towards the the Bear sideline
and shooks it up. Come over here with me, buddy.
And went straight to the sideline and I said let's go on
into the locker room. I figured, figured after 20
years, I, I should be able to say what I want to do.
Went right in, took a shower, put my street clothes on, got a

(01:14:06):
jacket. Got hot chocolate and a chili
dog and I never look back. Never missed it since.
Verse New England in 2010. Tell about why you were thinking
fireworks were going off. Oh, yeah, that really?
Well, it was the only time, first of all in 20 years that I
was ever cut anywhere. And I was cut right here on my

(01:14:30):
chin, which you would think as aquarterback you play 20 years,
you get catch a helmet to the chin.
And sure, that would happen morethan than one occasion.
But no, it's kind of like the the writing on the wall the the
week before against Green Bay, Ibroke my foot, broke my
calcaneus, which I didn't even know what a calcaneus was.

(01:14:54):
It's your heel bone. OK, give you a little learn
something new everyday anatomy. Lesson but the next week I go
and I play against New England. We don't have a chance for
playoffs. Maybe that my foot's broken and
I'm thinking why am I even trying to play?
Who am I trying to impress here?John Wayne.
So I play and I ended up playingwell.

(01:15:15):
We got a chance to win. We're driving late in the game.
My good friend Steve Hutchinson,a great player.
He's our left guard been a greatplayer for a long time was was
outstanding. He he won the few times in his
career he ever whiffed on a guy.He misses his guy completely.
I'm like on the 3 yard line. I see his guy coming.
I throw it. Soon as I throw it, man, the

(01:15:36):
lights went out and then kind oflike fireworks went off and I
get hit right in the chin and Steve's like over the top of me
when I look up and he's like, hey, man, you all right?
I So what is fireworks going on for?
He's like, I, you just got hit in the chin.
I'm sorry. And he said, man, you're
bleeding bad. And I was like and my chin was

(01:15:58):
killing me and I had a gash likethat.
It opened up like that wide and it was meat hanging out of it.
Went right in and got it sewed up.
My oldest daughter was there at the game.
She came down while they were sold me up and I remember
looking out and said, Brittany, this is it.
You know, I, of course, I think everyone else knew it was it

(01:16:20):
too. But I, I knew broken foot, first
time I've ever been cut, not along along without a
concussion. I mean, it was, it was not to
mention age. It, it was just time.
It seems like, you know, when itrains, it pours.
And the injuries? The injuries at 21 are a lot

(01:16:41):
easier to deal with than they are at 41.
How many concussions do you think you got during your
career? Here's here where the problem to
me lies, not that it really matters at this point, what's
done is done, but what is technically or scientifically or
or medically A concussion? We know when you see when you

(01:17:03):
see a guy or boxer, for example,get knocked out, that's a
concussion. But what about when you get hit?
And like in football, a lot of times you don't you don't know
it. I even I'm watching now and I, I
may, can I may I say I think he might to myself.
He may have had a concussion. You'll see a guy get up and it's

(01:17:24):
when you know, bells are ringinga little bit or you know, like
flashbulbs are going off and that stuff that people don't
see. You see when someone's out cold
and they get up and they they don't know what sideline to go
to. That's easy.
I guess my point is of the true he's got a concussion with
outside looking in those 2-3 maybe maybe, but what about the

(01:17:45):
ones that I got up ran the next play.
You never thought anything of it, but we had a little saying
bell was ringing endless, endless, no telling and my
understanding as we we find out more about those, the toll of
those maybe even greater than the big ones.

(01:18:06):
But again, there's nothing you can do about it.
How would it affect you when, whether you got a concussion
that everybody knows about or you got one that nobody knew
about? You know, I didn't think much
about it. I mean, this was at a time and
I, you know, it's not that long since I retired, but I'm talking
about back in college and early part of pro career that you were

(01:18:29):
a Sissy. Pardon my, my term there, but
you were Sissy if you, if your bell was rung and you let that
keep you out. And I, you know, everyone,
everyone reacts to different to to pains or hits or something
differently. What may keep one guy out of the

(01:18:51):
game, the next guy may not be out of play.
And you know, early in my careerI was so, I mean, I was, I was
taking pain pill. I I don't know what normal felt
like. I couldn't tell you if I had a
concussion and and I felt woozy because of a concussion or if it
was because of pain. I have no idea.

(01:19:11):
I would probably say the pain pills, but but there were times
after, after I'd gotten clean and sober that I did have what
would be borderline concussion, I guess.
And I and I had headaches for a day or two.
I don't I don't know if it's hard to say if if it ever

(01:19:32):
affected the way I played, I'd have to go back and you know,
maybe too far gone to see if that if that day or two after if
there's really they're just starting to learn the the
effects of concussions and it's not good.
That's the scary thing. How concerned are you about the
long term side effects? You know, only when I do
interviews like this. OK, like this Dumb media types

(01:19:56):
bring it up. I jokingly said, but, but that
is partly there's really not a whole lot I can do worrying as I
tell or we tell our youngest daughter all the time.
No sense of worrying about something you can't control
right now. You know, there's no sense of
worrying. I mean, I, I feel, I don't, I

(01:20:16):
can't say I feel normal. I don't know what normal but I
feel pretty good mentally and physically and so.
Across that bridge when we get to it.
You have any side effects now? I don't know.
I don't know. It's like after you have a

(01:20:36):
concussion in the National Football League, you have to
take a baseline test, but you have to have a a starting point.
And for us older players, they started this like when I was in
my 15th year. So there's 1515 years of wear
and tear that we don't know if you're, you know, if you've

(01:20:57):
never had a concussion, you takethis test, you got a pretty good
starting point and you get what we think is a concussion.
And next time you take the test and you can you score
considerably lower, your motor skills are out of whack.
We kind of know where where you are and, and what the effect of
getting hit in the head has on you.

(01:21:18):
With me, it's you know, it's it's the way it is.
They the protocol now is a lot better, but it doesn't help the
older guys a lot. You know, I my in fact, coming
back from the movies last night,Deanna said, you know, you tell
I was telling, I was talking about an old story that she knew

(01:21:40):
about that I don't know how it came up.
And I was like, yeah. And she goes, that's not the way
it went. And I said, surely it is.
I'm the one who the story's about, but I couldn't remember.
I can remember, but it's not right.
And she said, well, I got news for you.
All the stories you tell are notright.
Who am I to argue? But is that is that is that age?

(01:22:05):
Is that concussions? Is that both?
Or is that just, I'm a terrible storyteller?
I say all of the above. I think I'm a pretty good
storyteller, even though they'renot necessarily right all the
time. So there isn't though any
obvious memory loss or pain thatno.
OK. No, you've said before if you
had a son, you probably wouldn'tlet him play football.

(01:22:28):
I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I told Matt Lauer
that and maybe maybe what I should have said is, and maybe I
did say it, but it would be tough.
I don't say how I cannot let himplay because I'd always, I mean,
I can't make him not play. But if he chose not to, I don't

(01:22:51):
think I would be that upset. And and for two reasons.
The expectations would be if he never in my mind, he you know, I
may, may be proud of him, but toeveryone else, if he if he
doesn't exceed what I did, then he's a failure.

(01:23:13):
Not everybody can be Peyton and Eli, you know, and I'll do what
their dad did. So from that standpoint, I would
just I would, I would hate for him to be faced with that.
You know why, you know, your daddid this, why didn't you do
that? So on and so forth.
But also the physical effect as we're just finding out.

(01:23:36):
I mean, I know football's violent sport and I would I
would have trouble watching him as a you know, it's kind of talk
talking early about the things we did as a kid and now as an
adult, I'm thinking, my goodness, I can't believe I did
that. I'd be worried sick about my
kids. That's the way I would feel as I
watched him play. Just hate for him to get hit,

(01:24:00):
worried about him getting up, not getting up, the cumulative
effect of that. Not to mention the the the
pressure he would face daily to be the best.
Aaron Rodgers, he has, you know,made it pretty clear that when
you guys were playing, when you were the starter, when he was
the backup, you guys really didn't have much of a

(01:24:23):
relationship. What?
Why do you think that was? That's not uncommon.
You know, we watch film together.
His locker was, you know, like right there from mine.
We were in meetings together daily.

(01:24:44):
Other than that, I mean, that's not uncommon.
You know, a lot of the guys thatI played with quarterback wise,
I probably spent more time with Aaron than I did with those.
I mean, it's the exception wouldbe Doug Peterson, who who was a
long time backup and great friend and Matt Hasselbeck and,

(01:25:07):
and those two play with me for 10 years or more.
And you know, they wear on your,I wear on them.
I mean, you can't help but be around each other, but that's
not uncommon. That's not that that has nothing
to do with, but not to mention it.
I'm much older than him. I shouldn't say much, but I'm

(01:25:27):
considerably older than him. And what he does and what I do
are different when you leave thebuilding.
His likes are different than my likes.
And but I would always, if I waswatching film, which I watched a
lot of film by myself and I can remember a numerous occasion,
Hey, what you watching? Come on in.
So I wouldn't say, hey, now I that that's just not me.

(01:25:52):
You know, I never felt threatened my job, although I
knew that at some point I would not be the starter in Green Bay.
I knew that well. That's the, I guess, the
question that some people would have.
Do you think there was any hesitation on your end to be
closer because you knew this wasa guy that was brought in to
ultimately take over for you? No.

(01:26:13):
OK. No, I I really didn't.
When when they drafted him in the first round, that was that
was usually, that's usually a good sign that they're preparing
for the the end in the beginning, if you will.
How do you feel about it when ithappened?
I was surprised it took that long really, but I but I was

(01:26:34):
proud of the fact that it took that long.
I seen a lot of first round picks come and go at different
positions, but quarterback was not one of them.
So I was proud of that. First round pick comes up, they
don't pick a quarterback. Wasn't like, I was like, yes, I
just didn't think twice about it.

(01:26:55):
And and that went on for a long time.
So the one constant was I was going to be the quarterback and
the quarterback and everyone wasOK with that and that was a good
feeling. To what extent do you think you
could have been a better mentor to him than you were?
I think I was, I think a lot of it falls on, you know, I, I
don't know what the consensus feeling is of the general public

(01:27:19):
in this regard. I mean, I've, I've kind of been
asked this question, It's been talked about in the past and I
don't know where the, the, the present starter like myself in
that case is, is paid to be a mentor, so to speak, or if

(01:27:40):
that's part of the job description.
I don't think that that well, I think there's a misconception.
Maybe there's a misconception. I don't know him or anyone else
anything other than in my opinion, being a nice guy and
being, being, you know, thoughtful and I just, but I,
you know, I don't have to give him any insights to what I do or

(01:28:02):
don't do. That being said, I, I was, and I
guess backing up, I think it the, the mentorship, whether
you're the mentor or the one being mentored, so to speak, I
think it falls more on the the person who is being mentored or
wants to be rather than the old vet.

(01:28:25):
I don't, I think the young guy, it's up to him to to at least
ask and. And I have no opinion in this
argument, but there are some that would say, well you're
you're the legend, the face of the franchise, it should be on
you to be the 1 reaching out. Why?
I said. Why?

(01:28:46):
He's young guy doesn't maybe have the confidence to go up to
OF of Brett Favre and. I think as a starter, my job's
hard enough to win ball games and, and be a leader.
And I and I, I'm not, you're nota babysitter.
And and I'm not by no means talking about Aaron, but it's

(01:29:09):
he, he's the starter now. So the next quarterback comes in
whether he's a first round pick or third round pick or a free
agent, but they like him. Nowhere does it say that you
have to take that guy under yourwing and teaching the ropes.
You don't have to do anything but win ball games for whoever
it is you're the starting quarterback for.

(01:29:31):
Ultimately, that's what keeps you around or does it right?
That's the bottom. Whether or not you take a guy
under your wing means really nothing.
And so it's, you know, I if if there is a, you know, a belief
out there that I did not help not only Aaron Rodgers or help

(01:29:51):
other players, first of all, that's wrong.
To what extent that I help them,heck, I don't know.
How does that compare to other guys across the league?
I don't know. How much do you think all of
it's just been fed by the media?I think most of it is OK, you
know, I, you know, and, and and I could be a lot of stuff.

(01:30:16):
Controversy sells it. You know it, it's interesting,
you know, like the two guys thatget along and work well
together. Who wants to read about that?
Who cares? But the two guys who are giving
each other the finger and and talking bad about this for that,
that's that's what we want, you know.
So I think that in that regards,yeah.

(01:30:37):
I mean, the media fuels a lot. Of and it's interesting you say
that too, because it leads in perfectly to this topic and that
being retirement. You know, you have to wonder how
much of that was really fed and progressed by the media.
But why do you think you went back and forth so much about?
Well-being a retirement is sort of in some ways is facing kind

(01:31:01):
of what I faced made a terrible loss.
The questions are just bombarding you.
No, even if he's not in a press conference wherever he goes.
There was a time and and I believe it or not still to this
day may go somewhere and it's few and far between where
someone say I I'm hoping you come back.

(01:31:21):
I mean it's crazy but I still get that.
So imagine like when I first retired like.
Well, it's not that crazy. You got called by the Rams not
too. Long ago, but just the constant
Willie and not to mention your own.
You look in the mirror and you go, what am I going to do?
I I don't know you have to face that with everyone you leave out

(01:31:42):
of the house. Hey, were you coming back for
another year? What I mean, it's just and when
you when you're at and there's no way I can explain to you the
feeling because it's only happened to a few guys.
But when you're 40 years old, 373830 what whatever and you
lose a game like Peyton lost or I lost against New Orleans, the

(01:32:04):
last thing you want to think about is football, even though
that's the only thing you're going to think about,
unfortunately, you're going to think about what you should have
done, how you could have done it.
The redemption part of it comes to mind.
Like we were so close. I know.
But do I want to put myself through that again and and have

(01:32:25):
heartbreak yet again? Do I do I want to go through?
Do I want to start over and do all this again?
And then you then you stop and you go and can I do it daily and
physically like I want to do it because each year, you know,

(01:32:45):
that becomes tougher and tougher.
Your mind tells you, you can, but maybe your body's not
cooperate. And so that was that was my, my
dilemma. It made it, I didn't want to
think about it. And so when I was asked, I was
asked and I was asked and I was asked and you, you almost hate

(01:33:06):
the question and you, you almosthate the answer, whatever it may
be, yes or no. Yeah, I am coming back.
The I don't really want to do this.
Then you say, no, I'm, I don't want to come back right now.
And then later on, you're like, you know, maybe I do have a
little bit, you know, so there'sno way I can explain to you what
that feels like because obviously I don't have it

(01:33:28):
figured out myself. Oh no.
It was interesting, though, watching an appearance you made
on Letterman around that time. I think you'd just retired from
the Packers. And I was watching the
appearance the other day and he's asking you about it.
And even though you'd retired, it really didn't seem like you
were confident in your decision to stay retired.
But you retired and then June 2008, you called the Packers

(01:33:52):
head coach up and say you want to come back.
What was said on that call? Not a lot on my end.
Mike was not too happy, but understandably so.
What did he say? They had gone in a different
direction, as you imagine, and Ithrew a kink into the whole

(01:34:17):
situation because the offseason is not necessarily offseason.
You're preparing for next seasonand you're you're kind of
correcting and doing all the things that happened the
previous season. Well, you can imagine I'd been
there 16 years and now you're shifting gears.
I mean, this is a big deal and going in a different direction

(01:34:37):
with a different quarterback andprobably a philosophy to a
certain a certain degree. So that was more or less what,
you know, Mike was saying in hisway.
And of course there's two hard headed people on the phone.
I felt like I could still play and I was wrong for retiring

(01:34:58):
early, but I should have known and he should have known that
that was my my thought process. Like, you know, no one loves
football in April or March. Better yet a 40 year old guy, a
37 year old guy. I don't know if too many of them
go. I can't wait for mini camp.
I can't wait for OTAs. You know, I just gosh darn it, I

(01:35:21):
love this. I don't know if too many and
when you when you've when you suffered a tough loss and a
great season, but a devastating loss to end.
I don't know if too many that then that are are care anything
about it. But given time, you you know

(01:35:44):
that that itch will come back a little bit and as hasn't hasn't
come back in four years. So I know I've made the right
decision. I don't miss when I saw Peyton
lose that. I don't miss that one bit.
I don't, you know, there's always chance you win.
There's always a chance you lose.
I don't want to take that chance.
I know that. But then I did.

(01:36:05):
How much did you feel like you were forced into making your
your retirement decision initially?
You let your emotions rather than stopping and thinking,
which is what I should have done.
You don't. You don't do that.
And I can only speak from my end.

(01:36:26):
I should. I should have stood my ground
and not retired early. And.
Gave it more time, stood your. Ground.
What do you mean there was therewas pressure?
Well, Mike wanted to know, and that's as his, as the head coach
of the team or Ted Thompson's job as AGM.
I think rightfully so. They need to know which

(01:36:47):
direction they're going to go in.
But there was nothing in the rule books that said I had to
give them an answer until the day of the training camp.
Quite frankly, I could day of training camp, say, you know, I
decided I don't want to play. That'd be kind of a cruel way to
do it. You know, like you could have

(01:37:10):
told us early so we could have prepared for this.
Or, you know, I could retire early and and then have four
months to think about it and then all of a sudden, right when
training camp starts, I could go, you know, I kind of want to
be there again. The last four years I haven't
wanted to be at training camp. I haven't missed it.
So there wasn't this boy, how you know, I wish I could No, but

(01:37:34):
once I kind of got over if if you want to call, get over the
the the loss to the giants and, and thought, I mean, it was my
best year. If you really want to thank my
in 16 years, it was my best yearbased on all the circumstances
and stuff that last year in green, that was my best year in

(01:37:55):
16 years. So you can imagine like it
mentally I'm you're thinking I'mstill pretty good.
Whether you are or not, it's hard not to think that way now.
You were. You're.
Thinking I, I still do. I want to play or go to mini
camp right now. No I don't.
So when when Mike asked, and he asked several times to me, do I

(01:38:21):
do I do I think you know what, what do I think?
And I said, well, I don't know. I was good at that.
And I knew a week was not going to change.
I mean, Peyton in five weeks, because I heard what Elway said
in five weeks, we'll readdress this in five weeks.
If he has a clear cut, I know what I'm going to do.

(01:38:43):
It's it's no ifs and buts. I know exactly then you know,
he's better at it than I am. But if that was the case of me,
I knew that probably come July, I would, I would have a pretty
good, maybe June. I'd have a pretty good idea if I
wanted to go through it. Not March or April, but at the

(01:39:04):
time they wanted. An answer they were hammering
you. Again, they're not wrong and
there is no right. I mean the bottle.
There's nothing in the rule books that said, OK, if you
don't give us an answer. They could have cut me if I
didn't give an answer or they could have just waited it out.
And I just honestly, at the timeI was not.

(01:39:27):
I remember saying, Mike, you know, if you if you really want
an answer right now, I'm not 100% committed.
I cannot commit. If you want to know right now,
I'm not 100%. Can I get be all in?
No. Could I be in July?
Maybe, But that's not an answer That was was doable.
So I don't blame them. I mean, yeah, there was, it was,

(01:39:50):
it was, it was bad for a while and point fingers all the stuff.
But that's really how it went down, you know?
I mean, there was a better way to handle it, but it all worked
out. What was said in that several
hour meeting that you had in Green Bay?
Well, you know, again, I, I don't want to stoke the fire

(01:40:11):
because it's, it is what it is and everything is, is, is fine
now because time heals everything.
And I think for me, I felt like I, I admit that I was wrong and
it and it retiring early, but and they were, I was OK with the
fact that they wanted to move onin a different direction.
I really was. But I felt like, I think for me

(01:40:36):
it was like I'm not good enough to play here, but I'm too good
to play against you mentality. That's why I, that's kind of how
I felt that, you know, they, they didn't want to cut me
because anyone can pick me up. And yeah, I could, I could
compete for the job in Green Bay, which was that was fine.

(01:40:58):
But I just felt like I, I was not going to play there because
they'd already gone in a different direction, if you know
what I mean, Even though they were not going to cut me if I
put them in that position and that, and I was, again, I was
wrong. And so that's kind of what we
talked about in that meeting. And there was no easy
resolution, put it that way, because I now as I look back, I

(01:41:21):
tried to put myself in their, their position.
Now, I can't see it from their perspective that it wasn't that
I wasn't good enough to play forthe Packers, but they had to
figure out what they were going to do with Aaron in the in the,
in the at some point, you have to go in a different direction.
And and that means at times making tough, hard decisions

(01:41:42):
that not everyone agrees with. And that may be the fans or the
player himself. And that was the case.
But yet in saying that, he played too well last year from a
public standpoint to just let him go.
So we're kind of it's catch 22. You know, you damn, you do damn

(01:42:06):
if you don't. And I saw it more from just a
selfish standpoint. Like what?
You felt that, I mean, based on the success you'd had there and
for the 15 plus years you'd had it, that you'd earned that
right. And in the business world,
that's not necessarily the case.Yeah, you may have been our best
salesman for years, but you know, you're getting old.

(01:42:29):
You don't move around like you used to.
You're good. But we have to kind of.
We can save money and see what our young guy can do, or we can
hang on to the old, the old mayor and saw me.
But it's all good now. You end up going to The Jets,

(01:42:50):
play one season there, then playtwo seasons for the the Vikings
before the final season with theVikings.
I think you retired, then you unretired.
There were three Vikings players.
I think that in August, fly downto see you here in Hattiesburg
to try and convince you to come back.

(01:43:10):
Why ultimately decide to come back?
Well, you know what? I I, we lost the Saints in the
championship game. It was devastating.
I was beat to hell. It was tough, boy.
We were close. I mean, really close.
I can't, I don't even. We were closer than Denver was
against the Colts the other day.We were that close and we made

(01:43:35):
it was right there. And and it goes back to what I
was saying earlier. That is so devastating if you're
2125 years old by the time you get back home off it, but from
the trip, you almost forgot about it.
You just, it's like your kids, you know, you just, they just

(01:43:55):
like you spank them and they cryan hour later, you know that
they they forgot what happened. But as an adult who's played 19
years, I knew how hard it was. I knew that getting to that that
point in itself was was such a good thing.

(01:44:20):
Almost not impossible to repeat to get, but but hard.
I mean, 20 years was fortunate to win the Super Bowl one time
went went one other time. But I would have thought we'd
have gone 12 other times. But that's what you get for
thinking. So part of me was like, it's
impossible to have this year. But then there was this other

(01:44:42):
part of me that said, if you, ifyou don't go back, you're always
going to wonder what if. And that is true.
You know what people would have said had you come back?
We'd have done it. We'd have gone, you know, we'd
have gone to the Super Bowl. And I would have wondered what
if? Well, by going back, yeah, it
was. It was not a good year, you

(01:45:05):
know, we didn't even have a winning record.
But by going back there is no what if.
I will never have that looming. So I'm glad I went back.
I wish the season would have ended up differently, but I know
now I know there is no if you'd have came back, we'd have won.
I mean, are you really glad though you came back?
I mean, because you look at thatseason and I mean it was.

(01:45:28):
Well, for I am I really? Am I mean, you know, for
obviously not fun topic, but there were sexual harassment
allegations. Then you have, you know, you
apparently clash with the head coach.
You had your worst quarterback rating in most interceptions a
season after having the best in both categories.

(01:45:48):
So I mean just all things considered.
I was beat the heck, I mean, I broke my my foot, got my jaw
collarbone it. But I but you know, what, if if
we were sitting here right now and I didn't go back, I know
what I would be thinking. You know, if I went back, we may
have had a shot and other peopleand I just I think that would

(01:46:11):
eat at me forever that if I wentback, we may have won it.
Well, I know that now that that's not the case, but I'm I'm
able to live with that easier I think, than always wondering
what if. Embarrassed at all by the last.

(01:46:32):
Season No, you know, I mean I'm not I'm not, you know, from it
was four years and you you want to be remembered as something
and I think that I've I've I've done that.

(01:46:54):
I'm not I'm not perfect. Haven't don't claim to be.
And you know, I'm not. I'm, I'm content with where I
am. Hard on the family at all.
Yeah, it was. It's extremely hard.

(01:47:16):
You know, just like the footballfamily, they rely on you and you
let them down. You you don't live up to
expectations at times. That's that's life in general.
But but things are much better now.
Your mom and I love her because you read all these articles and

(01:47:37):
she's a great quote. She said she thought you should
have retired after the final year in Green Bay.
What do you think? You know what, I think it
doesn't matter. And I say this to, to like when
I was coaching kids or our youngest daughter all the time,

(01:47:59):
I'm like, really, because peoplewill say, and you may or, or, or
at least heard people say like, if you could go back and you can
do people do that. And I, I'm one of those that
goes, I don't even want to go there because you can't do it.
It doesn't matter what I should have retired and not.

(01:48:19):
I mean, that's not even for her to say.
That's her opinion. But the bottom line is I didn't.
I played three more years, that we know.
Your best season in your second to last season 1 of your.
Best. And you know what, that's that's
what matters is what you know, what happened, not what we think

(01:48:41):
could have happened or should have happened that that really
doesn't matter. So I don't even go there.
What made you really realize it was time to retire?
Well, I knew it 20 years that ifI'd had another good year, there
would always been this boy. He's still got a little bit left
in the tank. And I don't know if that's

(01:49:01):
necessarily a good thing, because the fact that it takes
on the body and mentally just over and over and over again.
At some point you got to stop, you know, and the competitive
spirit was always there. But I realized my last year more

(01:49:24):
than anything, and I got hit a bunch.
It seemed like the really tough hits, but I realized I didn't
like them. And for 19 years, I don't want
to say I like getting hit, but really didn't bother me a whole
lot. In fact, I kind of thrived on
it. Like, Oh yeah, that's all you

(01:49:44):
got. Well, the last year is like, I
didn't like that, you know, and I didn't have a lot of fight to,
to prove them otherwise. And so when I would get hit, I,
I would probably bounce up maybea little slower.
But what I was thinking mentallywas like the, the, the, the, the

(01:50:07):
benefit or the reap the reward, the, the, you know, the ups and
downs, whatever you want to say or or not in the this is OK
favor, you know, it's, it's, it's more of the, I don't
particularly like this. I don't whether we win or not.
I don't know if that offsets, you know, getting beat up.

(01:50:32):
It just I was started to weigh, weigh in the pros and cons and
every time I got hit, I was like, OK, I could throw a
touchdown pass after this. I don't know if that really
outweighs the the physical part of it, but it took 20 years for
me to feel that way. You're obviously one of the most
iconic players in the game and above and beyond the stats,
you're the type of player that you know, a parent who's

(01:50:54):
coaching or has a young kid onceyou know, would encourage their
child to be like because you know, the mentality, the
toughness. The Packers obviously on in July
are going to be honoring you, inducting you into the Packers
Hall of Fame, also retiring yournumber.

(01:51:17):
How much will that mean to you? It will mean as much as anything
I've accomplished in my career because that, you know,
obviously that's a culmination of of a that that says not that
I need it to be said, but that really is the the exclamation
point on a on a wonderful career.

(01:51:40):
And not that I ever needed that,but I'm honored to to have
played in Green Bay. But to be with Bart Starr and
Ray Nitschke and, you know, Jerry Kramer, her Batterly,

(01:52:00):
Willie Wood, Willie Davis, I mean, I can go on and on and on
and on. Because I remember sitting on
the sidelines and I was always Ialways consider myself a an
historian of the game. I mean, I I knew a lot about the
game. I didn't really know where the
Green Bay was growing up and it was cold and it was up north,

(01:52:21):
but I couldn't really find it onthe map.
But I knew who I knew who all Paul Horning and and Max McGee,
you know, and Jim Taylor. I mean, I, I Fuzzy Thurston, the
list goes on. And I knew who all those guys
were. And so I was one of those when I
was still on the sidelines, I looked up and saw the, you know,

(01:52:43):
the stadium, the Ring of Honor. And it meant something.
It really did. It may not mean a lot to some
guys today. I you know, you know, that's not
for me to say, but for me it meant something.
So to be thought of in Green Bayto me is I guess Dallas could
and and Pittsburgh could could say the same thing, but their

(01:53:05):
own tradition and history is as as big as the NF LS almost Bears
could say that as well where, you know, they got a long
laundry list of not only Packer Hall of Fame, but that are also
in the NFL Hall of Fame. And that says a lot.
I mean, you have to first of all, be around a long time, but

(01:53:26):
the tradition and history is there and to be thought of as
one of the best in that, you know, that franchise is, I mean,
it's it's truly an honor. It really.
What do you think the day will be like?
Nervous. Probably nervous in a good in a
good way, though. In a good way.
Just almost kind of like before the first game type of very

(01:53:51):
excited, you know, and I I was like that before every game.
I was excited. I was a little nervous about how
it how's it going to play out? You know, I'm not going to play
good. I'm not going to play bad.
I mean, hopefully we can block them hopefully.
And so I'm sure they'll be get some of those emotions that
that's sort of like before game.Well, it's interesting you say
nervous because you know, in reading about it, you said you

(01:54:14):
went Bart Starr to be part of itand obviously Bart one of the
greatest Packers of all time. But in reading that I'm like,
well, this is this is Brett's day.
You know, I wonder if you just, you know, once somebody.
I kind of like someone to hold my hand, right, you know, right,
which which is really the the truth, you know, I mean, I've

(01:54:36):
never been real good, believe itor not, being even though I I
love being a quarterback and andthe pressure being on me, I'm
not really good. Like when the spotlight is like,
OK, everyone else just moved to the side, right?
It's kind of like, OK, but here's Bart, you know, and

(01:54:58):
that's not to mention it goes back to this tradition, history
and and respect for the game that I've always had.
And I always wanted those guys to know as when I was playing
that now that I'm one of the guys, you're, you're nobody.
Because that was never the way I, I know that people like Bart

(01:55:22):
paved the way for, for my career.
They read an interview that you did and you were asked for like,
the favorite moment from your career.
And I thought what you said was interesting.
You said it would have to include the interceptions, the,
you know, and the tough losses. Explain why.

(01:55:43):
You know, it's I, I, I just don't look at my career and
think of the good. You know, unfortunately there
was some bad, but I but I think that's what shapes us, you know,
into the type of people we are, the character and the type of
player. If I was in 20 years, if I never

(01:56:04):
lost a game, how would I really know what winning a, a big game
or coming from behind or a SuperBowl, or how would I really
appreciate what that felt felt like if I've never experienced
the down? Because then when you do, you

(01:56:24):
really appreciate a last second throw or a season in which you
you endure and and you're, you're fortunate enough to to
win a Super Bowl or you do some unbelievable things that that
early in the year or the previous year seemed impossible.
If you win every game, how do you know what impossible is or

(01:56:46):
possible? I mean, it's just, it's kind of
like giving your kids everything, giving them
everything. How will they ever know what
hard work and having to go without something is, is really
like? And so that's the way I look at
my career. People say, what would you
change anything? Would you do this?
Would you have played different?All that stuff.

(01:57:07):
And I said, you know, it is whatit is.
First of all, I can't change it.And it sure made me appreciate
not only the football part of life, but just life in general,
you know, how quickly things canchange and, and people can be
taken away, how quickly you can become starter, how quickly you

(01:57:27):
can not be the starter. And, and that's just, that's the
way I look at things. And so it's not perfect.
It was, you know, but it it's mycareer and you take the good
with the bad and it makes you appreciate the good a lot, a lot
more. What would you say is the most
satisfying moment from your career?

(01:57:50):
You know, I don't think that there is a a game or a moment
more so than the fact that, you know, when people say how do you
want to be remembered or what? And it's like the a retirement
ceremony and Hall of Fame, all stuff is it's truly an honor.
But I'd like to think that the body of work not not so much

(01:58:12):
what what was given after the fact, but the body works speaks
for itself. I could care less of how where I
rank in the the experts top 10 or whatever.
It's just the way I played. I know I played with with desire
and love and passion for the game that that in my opinion is

(01:58:35):
not equal by anyone. Was it the prettiest?
Was it the best pocket passer? Was it that I look that I don't
care about that I just played ashard as I possibly could?
And most satisfying thing for mewas that I did it, that I was
able to dress out in the National Football League uniform
for one game. Better yet, 20 seasons.
And, and again, not not perfect,but I played every game like it

(01:58:59):
was the last. I really did.
Really a pleasure. Thank you.
Thanks for making the time to dothis.
That's all for my chat with Brett Favre.
You can watch video of that content plus a whole lot more on
youtube.com/graham Bensinger. And if you get a chance, give us
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