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September 1, 2025 78 mins

Legendary Detroit Lions wide receiver Calvin Johnson invites Graham Bensinger to his home in Detroit, where he discusses their previous rift with the Lions’ ownership, a budding cannabis business and family life raising three boys. The first-ballot hall of famer also opens up about his decision to retire earlier than many expected.

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Episode Transcript

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(00:00):
This week on the In Depth podcast Pro Football Hall of
Famer Calvin Johnson, we have the opportunity to catch up with
the former Detroit Lions receiver after his 2021
enshrinement in Canton, OH and then traveled to his home in the
Detroit area where we talked foran additional couple hours.
Johnson had a strained relationship with the Lions for

(00:21):
years after retiring, and although it's better now, he
addressed what caused the rift with his former team.
I'm just now getting to learn the ownership.
I didn't. I never really spoke to him when
I played. And also discusses how chronic
pain led to early retirement. I get up in the morning, I
literally slide across the floorlike shuffle because I don't
have any bend in my ankles. And the knock at the door that

(00:42):
changed his life. I see there's like a bear at the
door and I'm like what the hell?So I started walking to where my
pistols at. But we begin the conversation
with how Johnson's looking to build his legacy post football.
So I wanted to start actually bytalking about cannabis.
Why did you make the decision toenter the industry?
You know, I had my own experiences with cannabis and

(01:02):
really I wanted to get down to the science of it, especially
after I began obviously using the flower as cool as social,
yeah, help with sleeping, insomnia.
But when I started use other applications, the topicals and
whatnot, and I'm like, OK, this is really there.
There's really a lot of healing properties to this that people
don't know about because it has that stigma.
And, you know, it's a shame because people used to use this

(01:24):
hundreds of years ago, thousandsof years ago, people used to use
plants in medicines, cannabis asmedicine.
And so to, to the fact that it was a schedule 1 drug.
It was almost a crime itself that we couldn't learn more
about, you know, the healing powers of this plant until now.
The marijuana's federal classification as a controlled
substance. How do you feel about that and
your thoughts on when you think that changes?

(01:47):
Not as at first, you know, I wasreal sketchy about getting into
the business because he's like, Dang, like the government,
government can literally shut this down if they wanted to.
But you see the, you know, snowball effect taking place.
You know, everything starts in California and then rolls east
and we see that happening. I feel like there's over 30
states that have some kind of marijuana legislation actually

(02:08):
going. So I don't think it's not going
backwards. It's too much one, it's too much
money coming into these states. It's funny how much times have
changed when going back to when you were entering the draft and
how much news was made just the about the fact that you admitted
in private discussions that you've once smoked.

(02:28):
Marijuana. It's so funny, like when I first
admitted that it was a, it was astorm.
Like Oh my goodness, yada yada. Yeah.
But I mean, for me, I'm already done playing, so yeah.
But people were doing it then tohurt your like, draft stock, and
now the NFL is becoming intensely.
Doing it to that point, that interview that we did, it was
like in the combine, they asked you, everybody just asked that

(02:49):
question, how do you smoke weed or yada, yada.
Yeah. And they they tell you before
that that is the confidential. It's not supposed to come out.
And lo and behold, it came out for several people, but
obviously didn't affect the draft stock.
But that's had to be what it wasfor the reason why it was
leaked. You made a point of discussing
it during your Hall of Fame speech.
Why was that important to you? You know, it really, and I was
real subtle with it during the speech.

(03:10):
It didn't want to come off as, you know, I'm selling.
You know, I even altered my speech the day of the other
thing because I read it the night before.
I told you I was my average go to sleep time we're getting home
was like 3:00 and I got home 3:00 that night from whatever
we're doing. And I was like, man, I read
through it again and I was like,yeah, it just, it feels like I'm
selling something, selling something.

(03:30):
And I didn't want to come out, come across as if I'm selling
something, you know, I just wanted to be a great message
about one, what we're doing and,and how I feel like they're
they're, they're, they're healing powers to this plant or
just to plant medicine in general.
So I tailored it, I switched it around.
I kind of, I left primitive in there, but in a different way.
It wasn't like I'm talking aboutprimitive.
I said something to the fact like the the plants primitive in

(03:51):
nature, you know, but one thing I did when I want to come across
is selling a product. You know, this is more than
that. This is about football life more
so. How much thought went into how
to present that in the speech? Or even if.
So much, I mean, I was, I had AIhad a speech writer, Tommy
Shaver, Doctor Tommy Shaver has helped me with my speech.
He helped me did a great job putting everything that all my

(04:12):
words on paper as I wanted. But you know, it was hard.
It was hard to to not be a be a salesman for what what's going
on right now in my life. How did your parents react when
you told him the first time? I.
Talked to my dad about it first.He didn't like it.
He wasn't as against it as my mom.
And he's your dad's, the laid back.
One, that's the laid back one. He didn't like it.
I'm like, I know Mom Johnson ain't gonna like it.

(04:34):
And yeah, she didn't like it onebit.
You know, when I told her I was in the industry, you know, I
thought she was going to disown me.
What did what did you remember what she said initially?
You know, I think, I think I remember her just saying that,
you know, this is this no good. Not, not, not not worth word,
but like to some sort of extent,like there's nothing good in
this. There's nothing good in this
there. I mean, it's illegal, you know,

(04:55):
you can't make money off of it and stuff like that.
And you know, lo and behold, it's just it was that was at the
time when the industry had just started to turn.
That was when California was wasalready going.
But and the we're on the East Coast.
We're in the my parents are in the Bible belt.
Those are going to be the last states to go.
So I understand the stigma. I mean, we're in the black
community. We probably have friends and
family that have been affected by it.
So it doesn't surprise me with that was their, their, their.

(05:18):
Their their, their thoughts towards it.
Even me as a young man, I I knewthere's I smell weed in high
school, you know, I had no interest in youth in it because
I wouldn't dare go home with smelling like weed because I was
Johnson who killed me. Yeah, right.
But you probably rightfully knewthen if you wanted to pursue
this, that was the time to start, you know, pursuing it as
opposed to years later after, you know, a lot of other first

(05:43):
movers had already entered the industry.
So I was talking to her the other night and.
You know she very clearly is proud of you know what you are
are doing in the steps you're taking.
What was kind of responsible forher shift in thinking?
I think just just communication.I remember, I remember we went
out on a ski trip to Colorado one time and this is when we

(06:03):
were first getting into the industry.
We had got denied and it was a big story that whole board they
denied us, they got disbanded shortly after because they're
probably doing things they were supposed to be doing, denying
people or taking bribes, whatever they're doing.
So they got disbanded, but we got approved not long after.
So you know what, that news whenwe got disbanded or not just we

(06:23):
got didn't get approved. It made newspapers because when
those things are public record and I didn't think they would
because I'm like they had to be a reporter in there that knows,
you know, because we didn't put everything in our name and stuff
like that. And there's reporters in there.
They kind of they put the two and twos together and came out
in the part in the articles. And at that time, we were

(06:44):
scrambling. Because we, yeah, we were.
Scrambling. Like how so?
We we got we didn't get approvedof a license.
So, and there's this competitiveprocess and if you didn't, if
you weren't able to get in, thensomebody the next person in
line. Will be up.
Yeah. So what are you thinking at that
point? At that time, at that point, I'm
like, Oh my goodness, like we put a lot into this so far and
we might not even have a chance to get in the industry.
And you put your name your. Reputation brand your your your

(07:09):
first kind of post playing career.
First, Yeah, first like, you know, entrepreneur endeavour,
endeavour after playing So I mean, nobody likes to fail, but
in order to get to where we are and have success, you're going
to fail, but you just got to fail for.
How did you go about deciding how much money to invest
initially? It just depends on the project,
the project that you had. You know, we, we have a very
small, not very small. We have the smallest commercial

(07:31):
grow. Now it's time for us to expand
because where we are, but that'swhere we started.
We started when the start small to bite off a little chunk and
see see if it's for us and and move from there.
And what have some of the notable steps been for you so
far in the growth process of just your business?
Just being compliant, it's a very heavy compliance industry.
We knew it would be very heavy on compliance, but there's so

(07:54):
many levels to it. Like well.
Just say, for instance, anytime you move a product within your,
your store, you know, within your facility, whether it's a
store, whether it's a, you know,cultivation, processing, every
little move, if you're moving from this room to that room,
there has to be a record of it. Changing it from this package to
that package, there's a record of it.
Every movement, there's a record.
So you know, it's, it's, it's possibly easy to get to get lost

(08:16):
and, and forget a step in there.That's why you have to have
people that obviously that practice and you can work.
I mean, you get, there's going to be an error sometimes, but
you have to have people that, that own it.
They're like, almost like we call it entrepreneurs, you know,
people that you know, own it within the business.
How about the biggest challengesso far in building the business?
Biggest challenges is just really, you know, for us, really

(08:40):
the biggest challenges were justpeople.
I think people are the biggest, biggest challenge is finding the
right people for the job. You know, you have, we have
people in place that know what to do, to know how to do it.
But having the supporting cast for those for your, your, your
not say your top dogs, but your,your, you know, say your
cultivation specialist or your metrics specialist, you know,
having a great supporting cast. And what's your involvement in

(09:03):
that process? Well, really I'm, you know, I'm
the landowner, you know, so you know, I own the land and the
brand. So, you know, we're we're
responsible. You know, that's when we came
into the industry. It was like we're going to put a
good team together. We've seen the good and the bad.
We've been on 16. I had some friends that have
been on championships. I unfortunately haven't been on
the championship, but team. But I know what a good team
looks like. You know, we know how to put

(09:24):
together a good team. So that's what we we set out to
do. Rob was telling me that
everybody kind of says they're an expert in this industry, but
nobody actually is yet. The only experts in this
industry are the guys that have been growing since they're like
kids, you know, but it's not many real experts in this space.
And for us, you know, we use recruiting services in order to

(09:46):
find that so-called expert for ourselves in the space because,
you know, we couldn't just go around Michigan like hey, how
much have you grown? How much are you?
There's no real track record, but for guys that have been
doing it out on the West Coast and the places that have a
legalized market. How do you go about figuring out
how to get the product right? Just, you know, trial and error.
You got to grow it, you know, you got to grow it, you got to
get it tested, you know, and that's really a big.

(10:09):
I mean, it's not like just somebody sitting there smoking
in in a room. There's like more to it than.
Oh, it's so. Much more honest.
You got to grow it right, you got to try it right and you got
to test it and make sure it's right, you know.
But in order to get to that point, there's like a whole,
there's months almost, you say ayear of processes.
If you're starting from seed, you know, it's like.
You know, 8 months. Before you actually get a full
grown plant. And when did you know you had

(10:30):
the the right product? Just I got to try it.
Quality control I take pride in now I do our quality control not
only myself, but the whole team.And then we have a survey that
we fill out and and you know, has different categories in the
survey. Of like, how's it taste?
How's it feel? How's it you know?
How about long term goals? So our mission is to be
innovative in the space, you know, just highlight the healing

(10:50):
powers of the plant. So and being innovative in the
space is creating new applications.
So maybe there is a new drink, you know, where we could drink
it instead of potentially smoking it may be harming your
lungs coming up with new ways toto to consume it, to put in your
body. So that's effective.
Rob had mentioned the desire eventually to go to the other
states in internationally. What are your thoughts on that

(11:13):
front? 100%, you know, as long as we we
continue to take care of our backyard, build a strong brand.
Like I said, we we have the celebrity behind the brand, but
when you a lot of people like think there's just a splash of
face on it. But when we put those two
together, that quality and that celebrity and just grow it from
there, we'll be able to license in other states.
Not so much sure if I want to dobrick and mortar unless it just
grows like that, but just, you know, being able to take it to

(11:34):
different states, you know that that would be a cool thing.
But the biggest thing without just quality control at that
point? And what's the hesitation with
brick and mortar because I know you guys have talked about
retail. It's just so much more of an
endeavor. You know, it's a lot more, you
know, you know, investing that goes on there when you got to
build out from the ground. So if we could do a licensing
deal and get into other markets to spread our brand, that would
probably be the quickest way, the best way to do it.

(11:56):
How about financial goals? Financially, at the end of the
day, and not right now in time, sometimes I feel like we have a
lot of work to do in the industry but be able to, you
know, sell our company to a bigger company or just become a
part of a bigger company, you know, where we could do more and
more research. You know, you need money to do
that. Yeah, because we got to fund it
ourselves because the feds aren't really doing it right
now. Until, until, until it's not in

(12:18):
schedule one anymore. Well, and on the federal front,
yeah, I mean, you can't even store the money somewhere,
right, because of the the federal regulation.
Any bank, yeah. The banks that have, you know,
federal finding and things like that, that that nature, yeah,
you can't do anything with those.
Even companies that have federalfunding, you can't really
partner and do things with them.So we have local banks though in
the state that do accept cannabis cash, but they're they

(12:40):
taxed though too. Oh, do they?
Oh yes. That's a whole another challenge
in another. It's a whole other challenge,
but it is it is a whole level ofcomfort on knowing that your
your money is in the bank. In what ways was the Harvard
Partnership helpful? For us, you know, just to be on
the holistic, the Wellness side of this thing, man, to be able
to do research and, and, and prove the point that we know

(13:02):
we're in it for the right reasons, that we're trying to
create products to help our brethren.
Everybody deals with pain. So being able to help the
masses, you know, that's what this thing is all about.
How do you view how the NF LS handled it in recent times?
You know, the NF LS changing themselves, you know, with the
NFL gives something give something to the players.
You ready to know they're takingsomething on the back end, you
know, so I feel like, you know, they gave the players the

(13:22):
ability to have more of the substance substance in their
system so that they don't get really get in trouble for it as
much anymore really. But at the same end, I think
that they they've you know, theymight have lost some of their
revenue potentially. I think there's something that
happened on the back end of that.
So they know when you know when the NFL players they're getting.
Something they're losing something too, you know, the
owners are going, they're not going to just give so.

(13:45):
But it's good for them so they can actually have another way to
take care of their body and not have to take all the opioids
that are prescribed because you get those things too.
And obviously we know the destructive effect and how
addictive those things could be.And that's another reason why
we're in this. Have you reached out to the NFL
to try and engage? We've reached out to to the

(14:05):
teams through people. I know the NFL has put a grant
out there where they're going todonate.
I forget how much was maybe a. $1,000,000 or.
Something like that to cannabis research.
So that's a start, you know, as a start, that's all.
I mean, right now that's all youcan ask for from the NFL out
because I wasn't expecting that so.
And do you see yourself reachingout to the league at some point
to try and develop some sort of partnership?

(14:25):
That's for sure. We're definitely going to, I
think that when we get in a better position with some of
these products that we're talking about and we're able to
do some more research on them and really show my, hey, this is
this is Harvard research, this is, you know, John Hopkins
research. You know, this is institutional
research that we're doing here is not, you know, we're not
doing this in our backyard. And you talked about, you know,
kind of positive effects of cannabis versus opioids, which

(14:48):
you know, are are still commonlyused and legal for medical
reasons. How often did you use marijuana
during your career? I use it on a regular early in
my career, coming out of college, I used it, you know,
every now and then. But when I got to the league, it
seems like you go from being in college to, you know.
Can't get hurt, never get hurt to all of a sudden once you get

(15:08):
in the league like you're hurt every day really.
You know, this is crazy because I mean, yeah, I.
Got little injuries in college, but nothing like the league.
I'm guessing it's just, you know, you're playing against
such bigger, faster players, youknow, stronger players.
But it definitely increased to the to the point where I'm using
every week, you know, during theduring the league, like after
games, you know, before I go to sleep, Yeah.
And what made you realize that helped?

(15:29):
Just the level of sleep, you know my for me, I know my my
mind could race or I'm just thinking about something.
I'm sitting there like thinking about my speech and my mind's
just racing. I'm like, no, something's not
right. Something's not right.
And I'm up at 4:00 in the morning trying to fix it the day
before my. Speech.
And I was finally like, my wife was like, get your butt in the
bed. And I'm like, yeah, you're
right. I just need to go to sleep.
And then I wake up the next morning.
It kind of. It all just came together.

(15:50):
Didn't you do it before a game once?
I don't remember. I feel like I was.
Scared to do it before a game. I I thought I read you did it
before a game once but then and you there were positive effects
but. Then you decided you didn't want
to do that anymore because you were concerned about like.
The the lung capacity. Yeah, I mean that's my main
reason for not wanting to do it for game comes like man, all I

(16:11):
do is. Run.
I'm running miles every game. I was like, I can't.
That's the last thing I want to do is go out there and have an
impact on my lungs. Because if you do, yeah, you'll
feel it. How about the most Vicodin you
ever had to take and how long that continues for?
I remember. I mean, I took I took a lot of
stuff to divide into it all someoxys, whatever you can do to

(16:33):
play. And that was the mindset, you
know, you want to be available. You know, you, you if you're not
available to your team, that's how you get off your team, you
know, and you know, for me personally, I just like to play.
I mean, we all just want to play.
We always want to be on the field, even if we're hurt
because we understand everybody's got injuries that we
got to deal with. But.
You know, that's just part of the game, being able to play
while you're hurt. Like I said in my speech,
anything that we could take to play?
We did. How long a period of time would

(16:54):
you have to take it for? Oh.
I was just a. Pain like so safer anchor is my
injury on my finger. That was at a point in time
where I was like, OK, the Aussies all this stuff makes my
stomach like it didn't make me feel felt, didn't feel right,
like just something about was off the Percocet.
Oh man, I took. That like 2 times for my finger
and it was great with the pain but I felt off like everything
was off and then from that pointI was just cannabis.

(17:17):
Looking back now, even if that'scommonplace and regularly used,
kind of when you're in it playing, how much do you think
it's actually overused? Like the tour dolls and all that
stuff. When I was playing, it was
freely available like, and they changed it halfway through my
career where they kind of, I mean, that's one of the opioid,

(17:38):
you know. Pending was getting really bad
and they had to make a change because it was too readily
accessible in the locker rooms where guys just go get it
whenever they need it. So that was a probably a change
for the better because you thinkthat some people went off the
deep end, you know, using other things because of the.
And that's where today, present day, as more and more research

(18:00):
comes available, the cannabis you believe can really step in
and make a big difference. Indeed, you know, there's, I
mean, we have what's called an endocannabinoid system.
You know, it's almost like cannabis is made for us, you
know, because we have receptors that that, that accept cannabis.
So that's my true belief that, you know, anything that is of
the earth, you know, that shouldgo into our body, you know,

(18:22):
anything of synthetic means. Not that I don't, you know, put
processed food into my body sometimes and take medicine,
but, you know, if I can avoid it, yeah.
All right, growing up, we want to take you way back.
So tell me about shooting a kid with a paintball gun who was
riding his bike. I did a lot of nonsense with
paintballs when I was in collegewhen I was a kid.

(18:43):
It wasn't just a random, it was always somebody I knew, you
know? So when we were at Georgia Tech,
we were like on the on the 4th floor of our dorm and we
overlooked the parking area. So we had a tennis player,
David, or just whoever's riding by or walking by or the cars.
We know the cars. Oh yeah, we're lighting them up.
So people will have eventually just stopped coming down this
way because they know they come by there.
They're getting hit with paintball guns.

(19:04):
I remember one time we shot one of our friends, one of my
friend's cars, and he pulled up.He's like, dude, look what y'all
did in my car. Yeah, yeah.
And a cop came and the cop came,he saw, I guess we had our
paintball guns. He got he got out, he pulled his
gun. And I was like, oh, really?
It's just paintballs. It's just paintballs.
You know, it was like, we're just playing around.
We know the good because I didn't do it.
It's it's what I just wanted to defensive lineman Darrow.

(19:24):
And he wasn't tripping, you know, he was just mad at us.
But the cop pulled his guns like, hey, man, we we go to
school here. Don't do that like you.
Know, but yeah, paintballs. I mean, yeah, don't be around me
if I got a paintball gun. What's the most trouble you get
in growing up? When I was a kid.
We were. It's a grocery store on in
College Park and my mom parked up at the top.

(19:44):
For some reason you can move thegear while I was parked and the
keys weren't in it. So my brother.
'S in the back seat, probably like 2 year, three years old in
his car seat. I'm in the front seat and I I
move the gear, I go down this long hill and it's just a hill
like this and then it goes up atthe bottom and there's like a
tractor trailer at the bottom ofthe hill.
So we start rolling down the hill, fortunately, like we're
like in the like the lane where people drive through and there's

(20:06):
no cars coming. I see my mom running down the
hill and it goes up and it stopsliterally right before this
tractor trailer and it just comes back and settles in the
little valley of the little hillin the in the parking lot.
And then I got home. That's where my mom would grab
my like, flip me upside down andwhoop my ass over.
I ain't ever got my butt little so bad in my life, man I
remember. Remember that.
So I mean, I remember that that was the that was the funniest.

(20:29):
I remember going up the steps and I feel like I got flipped
upside down and got my ass like.So what what's interesting about
your your family is, you know, while you might be the most
famous, all of your siblings have had a lot of success in
their own right. And you know, it wasn't as if
you came from some Uber rich family that can send you guys to

(20:50):
the best schools and provide thebest of everything.
It just seems like your parents were really involved, great
parents. But first just kind of just set
the scene here. Give a little background on what
each of your siblings do. My older sister, you know, she's
an immunologist. She just got a professorship.
She worked at Emory for a while and she just got a professorship

(21:11):
at Morehouse School of Medicine where she actually did her Med
school. So she's she's doing well there.
She's a smart cookie there. She was, like I said in my
speech, she was a precedent. She led the way for she was she
bad at lead off and she set the example, set the tone for us.
Is this? Erica, Erica, my older sister,
sorry, Erica Lashay Dawson, I keep saying Johnson and Dawson,
she got married a couple years ago and I got myself, my little

(21:34):
brother Wally Rashad Johnson, he's in might have a year and a
half, two years left a residencydown at at Vanderbilt.
You know, he's like a general surgeon, so he's very smart.
And my baby sister, she just finished up school, so she just
got a nice little, it's kind of logistical job.
So everybody's doing well. I'm happy for them.
They're doing, I'm most proud ofmy little sister because she got

(21:54):
her got her first real nice job and stuff like that.
She gets paid well. So don't have no, I'm not
worried about my siblings. So they're doing well for.
What about your upbringing? Do you think it's responsible
for that? My parents are real involved.
Mom Johnson, you know, she's, you know, kind of like a
perfectionist to her own right, you know, always trying to do
everything to the best of her ability.
And you know, everything she touches is like turns the goal.

(22:16):
You know, she does a great job of whatever she does.
And she's always on us about school, man, just all ASBS, A/C
is like AFAC, she's pulling you out of sports, you know, stuff
like that. You know, just little, little
small threats like that just kept us on point, you know,
while we were growing up. And I mean, I think that's the
big credit to, you know, one of them just being consistently
there, you know, whether it was too much, you know, overbearing,

(22:38):
but that's just the fact that they're consistently there.
My dad always played the other role.
He was just cool, calm, collected, you know, and, you
know, just seeing him, same demeanor all the time, you know,
whatever, whatever, with whatever's going on, you know,
those two totally different personalities.
But we're able to see the work, you know, they put in for
everything that they that they that they gotten.
That's why we are the way we are.
And they balance each other well.
That's exactly it. You you mentioned everything

(23:00):
your mom touches turning into gold.
I I understand it's follow through that she has.
That's really helpful, right? Strong follow through.
You know, she's going to, yeah, she might do something, but she
going to go back and make sure it's right and stays tight.
What do you think you most learned from your mom and dad?
Well, my mom, you know, just having a vision and goals, you
know, and just seeing those things, you know, if you, you

(23:22):
put your mind to it, you work towards it, you know,
everything, nothing's out of outof reach.
You know, with my dad, I think, like I say for him was just my
demeanor. You know, I'm always, I always
try to keep cool, calm and collected, you know, and I mean,
not that I am all the time, but with, with, with how what I see
him go through and, and the way he, you know, continues to
maintain himself. How so?

(23:44):
Just, you know, from, you know, what he had to deal with, you
know, going to work day in, day out and he's on call when he's
on the railroad. So we'll be in the middle of the
day. It's always, always seem to
happen whenever we're having fun.
So whatever you mean. There's no rhyme or reason to
what time he gets called. He got to go.
You know, he's he's out the house in 3045 minutes on the
work and he might be gone for a day.
He might be gone for 12 hours. You.

(24:05):
Know it's just depend on the call, but come back home, you
know, you get home first thing he does food on the table,
whether it's morning, afternoon,evening, getting food ready,
then he could take a nap or whatever and you know, get
ketchup on his rest. But he didn't let the fact that
he was ever tired, you know, or,you know, stressed out from work
or what not, you know, affected,you know, how what happened at
home. In what ways was your mom

(24:26):
strict? We wanted to do something.
We knew not to ask Mom 'cause wewere probably going to get to
know. You know, we always ask Dad, but
and then he would be like, well,go ask your mom.
We just didn't. We just didn't bother asking so.
But with her, like I say, whether it was school, she's a
huge disciplinarian and both of them preached that.
Do it to the best of your ability or you won't know how
good you can be. And the worst punishment was not
being able to leave the yard, right?

(24:47):
Yeah, when you get in trouble and like you can go outside but
you can't leave the backyard, then you can see everybody in
the cul-de-sac playing kickball,baseball, whatever, football in
the street. You know, just yeah, that was
the worst, having to stay in thebackyard.
So you're playing for the Lions.It's a snowy game against the
Eagles. She's in the airport, I believe,
going home, and she slips and falls.

(25:10):
Take it from there. We played up there in
Philadelphia, She slips on some ice on the going into the
airport and I fell and hit her back.
In the process of getting checked out, they noticed some
abnormalities and found out she had pancreatic cancer during the
process. And unfortunately with, you
know, you know, you hear pancreatic cancer is like death
centers. You know, fortunately she found
it, I guess as early as you can.And when the John Hopkins doctor

(25:33):
Mccurry did a little Whipple operation on her and you know,
she's that's happened like 5-6 years, seven years ago now.
Why was it important to you to bring it up in the speech?
Because I mean, when she, we heard she had it, we didn't know
what stage exactly. We, we kind of heard it was
early. It hadn't really metastasized
yet. But every time you hear that
he's like, yeah. And then you find out later
that, you know, this, this has done something already.

(25:54):
But you know, just to see her, her faith in action, man, she
just, you know, all, she was just in her in her prayer closet
all day every day. You know, she was in the
hospital. She's always in good spirits,
you know, always speaking positively, you know, when they
let anybody come in there speaking any or bringing any bad
energy or anything like that. So she did a great job of just
controlling her, you know, her whole attitude and the effort

(26:15):
was then she put into a recovery.
And taking that spill that fall was about the best thing that
could have ever happened to her because, right, the issue with
pancreatic cancers, you just don't find it till it's too
late. Yeah, yeah.
What was your reaction when you initially found out?
When I it just, you know, you just everything just drops.

(26:37):
You know, it's just, it's like that's that's the one you, I
mean, you might not know much about cancer, but if you know
anything about cancer, you know,like pancreatic is not the one
you want to get. So we found out it was just, it
was a blow. You know, we, I mean, sure, we
had my dad had a quadruple bypass like when I first got
into the league, so it could be easily be without bump
appearance right now. So, you know, just a, just a

(26:57):
straight blessing. What was the hardest part about
her process of going through that?
Just seeing her, you know, she wanted really to say
deteriorating, but she was losing weight, you know, and
just seeing her looking real frail, you know, that was that
was a scary time. Whether the mom or the dad, your
kind of takeaways from going through those experiences?

(27:18):
Just enjoy the time that you have and spend as much time as
you have with them. You know, right now the business
keeps me up here, but you know, my oldest son is down there.
So I get back down to Georgia tosee them and the family.
But you know, it'd be nice to tobe living down there and enjoy
like all the time I have left with them.
Baseball. So first, what's the deal with
you and powdered mashed potatoes?

(27:41):
That's a college thing, man. Ain't got no money, man.
Man, we was in college and that's my that's my go to.
Don't athletes on scholarship? Can't they eat for free in the
cafeteria? We can, but it's.
Like there's certain times. Too though I.
Mean it's. Like I had a heavy potato diet,
like from high school to college, high school, you
wouldn't believe it, but all I ate was French fries every day.

(28:03):
Really. Every day in high.
School like we had like you can buy a regular lunch, you would,
you know? You buy like burger and fries?
I had like 2. Dollars to spend on lunch so $3
spent on lunch or this so I bought French fries and a drink
you know, so that was good but you know, and then I got to
college you know, I'm always been a I'm a I'm a fiend for
French fries so. Or potatoes.

(28:24):
And yeah, powdered potatoes, man.
I don't know what got me on thembut.
It was just easy probably and I could eat it and I'm good.
I don't know why but I love them.
Better diet today. Oh yeah, much better diet today.
Yeah. Oh yeah, I actually make my own
potatoes from scratch now. There.
You go, but I mean, otherwise like I can't imagine you'd be in

(28:44):
the shape you are today even if you are still working at
aggressively, right? No, yeah, I mean, I try to just
try to eat right, man. That's that's the biggest thing,
you know, just eat a good diet. You know, I mean, I don't
exercise probably as much as I should do, but I think that
eating a good diet, that guy keeps me in pretty decent shape.
So what was it about the Fairburn Flames jersey?
Back in the day, I played baseball at Duncan Park and

(29:06):
that's where actually Eric Berry, he played it with the
Fairburn Flames. And every time he leaving
baseball, you know, from T-ball all the way up to like, you
know, I was in middle school, I always wanted to play football
just because it was so cool. They had the orange flame on the
helmet with the blue helmets andthen like the almost like a blue
Bronco, like jersey kind of, youknow, and I just loved it.
You know, just my blue is my color.

(29:26):
You know, it's blue and orange and it's more so just because
they look so cool that I wanted to play.
I mean, that was it. That's why I want to play
because the uniforms look so cool.
And, and you could have gone proin baseball.
What was the offer that you got and why did you ultimately turn
it down? I know we got one from the
Dodgers offer letter. I thought, I don't know why I
thought it was Cincinnati, but might be, I don't know.

(29:47):
When I was playing baseball all growing up in high school, I
started to get pretty good at itand you know, I was hitting
really well. Obviously I was covering it out
center field like like like no other.
But baseball got boring because when I started playing football
in 7th grade, I was running backcornerback.
I got to high school, hit my growth spurt and they moved me
over to the receiver and kind ofgot good towards the end of that
second year. Third year turned it up and

(30:09):
senior year just kept going. But it got to the point where I
was like, man, I want to go to college and mainly the reason I
want to go. To college is because.
A senior or a junior or whatever.
My sister was in college and my mom was semi up to her at Clark
Atlanta and she'll do a little like tutoring.
If there's some course I might need some help on, she'll, you
know, just help me out or whatever and then.
I got to just chill out downtownand see the college life, you

(30:30):
know, just. I was like, man, I got to be a
part of this, you know, and thenand then not only foot was
football, you know, taking, you know, the precedent, you know,
baseball is falling behind. But college life I was thinking
about too. So I was like, yeah, I'm going
to school. So regardless of whatever the
the economics of the offer were,you you knew and not to mention
your mom probably wouldn't have let you go anyway.

(30:53):
I'm not so sure. I only know she probably
wouldn't have been. She probably wanted me to go to
school for sure. And then before that, I had a
couple guys that played before me at school that actually went
off into the farm leagues and, you know, kind of see how people
get lost sometimes in it. Oh, really?
Yeah. So that was something you were
aware? Of even though.
So tell about being 12 years oldand the class assignment where

(31:14):
you wrote about your future. You know, I didn't even know
about this until I went home recently and she showed me this
letter that I wrote. And it was like, whoa, I
literally like spoken into to tolife.
I sit there and read the letter talking about, you know, want to
be a professional athlete and dothings that are able to, you
know, help people's quality of life and stuff like that.
And I'm like, wow, that's exactly what we're doing right

(31:34):
now. Was there something that you
said in the the letter that kindof most or stood out?
To I think, I mean you had to being a professional athlete.
Athlete. Yeah, we.
They always wanted to do that, but to be able to talk about,
you know, how, how we're going to come out here and try to
change people's lives and, and create a better quality of life
for people. And that's kind of exactly what
we're doing right now, you know,and, and continuing to build.

(31:56):
Yeah. And your mom had initially
resisted you playing football, but it was something about that
letter that opened her up to thepossibility, right?
I. Don't even remember what it was,
but yeah, she had. Didn't want to play football and
I think mainly because I was little, she said.
I couldn't play until I got to 7th grade and you know, from
when I was, you know, shoot, however young I was, it's feel
like that took forever just to get 7th grade because I wouldn't

(32:17):
play football so bad in the first day playing football.
I wouldn't quit. Because everybody was hitting
you well. Yeah, because we had a stupid.
Hitting drill like I'm running down the sideline and then
there's like AD lineman coming down at an angle crashing me.
Like on just tackle drill on thesideline.
Like they don't do that. They don't do this.
And you also had offensive line cleats?
Man, my mom had me out there looking nasty and just nasty and

(32:39):
just had me on the Rydells like molded Rydell boots.
It was ugly. And so tell about the
Butterfinger dubbing. My 10th grade year, I got moved
up to the to varsity. I was trashed my first two
years. They called me butterfingers so
I couldn't catch a cold and theyput me in a game and I remember
I like dropped like a couple balls just hit me right in the
hand. I remember like yesterday.

(33:00):
I mean, I could see it just. Hit me right in the hand and
still. I'm.
Like man, I I still remember it and I remember it's just it's a
big let down. I think we lost that game.
Like if I feel like if I would have caught those balls, we
would have easily won the game. Could have been like big plays
and stuff like that and I'll. Just.
It was just like man, this and then all of a sudden just got
the Butterfingers and it was a it was a joke and then just kept

(33:23):
on Butterfinger Butterfingers. I'm like, man, I'm gonna come
caught in Butterfingers so. What?
So what did when you drop those passes, what did teammates say
to you? I.
Don't remember what they said atthe time.
I just remember the after effect, you know, of, you know,
what it felt like to lose those games.
And then, you know, sometime later it was a joke, but

(33:43):
Butterfingers. And then everybody started
calling me Butterfingers, Butterfingers, Butterfingers,
until I started make some play as a nation.
And it was a joke, but it reallywasn't.
It was a joke, but it wasn't. Yeah, right.
How did you feel at the time? You know it.
Cut it cut. Like legitimately?
No, yeah, it cut. For sure, you know, I was like,
man, I'm out here, you know, embarrassing myself and like
that junk can't that can't do that, you know, But now the only

(34:05):
way to get rid of it is to work,work it out, you know.
And so I put that chain that, that that little rubber football
on that bungee cord on that chain link fence, it just went
to throwing that ball. And like what you do, you throw
it away from and the rubber, thebungee cord brings it back twice
as fast as you throw it out. So I think that just really just
helped with reaction really morethan anything.
Do you think going through that experience where you were

(34:25):
dropping the passes and people were giving you a hard time
helped ultimately in you having success one?
100% because it's just, you know, all those times, it's just
like, you know. You get used to.
People not used to it, but you know, you understand that, you
know, people are going to be mean.
People won't say stuff, but it don't affect what you're doing.
You know, it doesn't affect how you keep on living.

(34:46):
You know, it doesn't affect whatwhat tomorrow's going to bring,
if Mark could be a totally different day.
Just depends on, you know, how you approach what's your mental,
what's your mental's. Like, and you mentioned that
throwing the football into the chain link fence, if you could
just explain the work ethic that's responsible for the
success that you achieved. Yeah, man, it's just.
That's all my dad, you know, youknow, grinding day in, day out.

(35:10):
So I'm a mom go from, you know, flight attendant, school
teacher, the school administrator to now have her
minister's license. So it's like anything you want
to do, you can do it if you put your mind to it or work it until
I'm not dropping nothing no more.
And that's why I said I put thatthat chain on that fence.
All I did was go out there and just throw it away, catch it,
throw it away, catch it. And then just try to work those

(35:30):
hands. Just work on the quickness.
It's just whatever I see. You just got to be real with
yourself too. Whatever you see you need to
work on. You got to attack it, you know
you can't you. Can't go at it passively.
And even if the the drills and what you were doing changed over
time, to to what extent did the the time investment and the
commitment only grow as you wanted?
To have. More success.
It only grew because you got to be you become that much more.

(35:53):
For me, I became that much more paranoid about if I'm not
preparing that at least at the same level or better than I did
last time, I'm going to fall short.
I'm falling behind. Really paranoid, isn't concerned
somebody else will pass you. Up.
Not even concerned. Somebody else passed me up, but
maybe I didn't put in enough attention to detail on maybe how

(36:14):
I'm coming out of this route or put enough attention to detail
on how this guy is going to be playing on film.
What about sacrifices that forces you to make and kind of
pursuing your professional dreams?
It would. Have been hard for me to have a
family during that time because I don't know how I could have,
you know, you know, put all the love into the game and then put
all the love into a family at home and, and, and still be able

(36:36):
to, you know, take care of my body, get in my, my hyperbaric
chamber, you know, get all my body work done and then come
home with a wife and like, hey, while she's putting the kids
down the bed, you know, so everyday so it's just.
Just using my game ready, my compression, just thinking about
all the things I did on a daily basis, like I wouldn't have time
for family. You have to be selfish if you

(36:56):
want. To be selfish with your time, I
mean 100% you got to be selfish with your time.
Even if you do have family, you're going to have to be
selfish with your time. Your wife is going to, I mean my
coach's wives like that are in good marriage.
There's some real low GS becauseand you got family and kids
because the wife is holding downthe household.
Right. And probably in.
Coaches at work from 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM.
You know what I'm saying? So that's every.

(37:18):
That's not like a daily thing. And then probably impossible to
have success at everything, or at least all at the same time.
I mean, you see Tom Brady do it,but there's not really like.
So there are times that you would catch the ball playing and
actually not really have any idea how it got to you or that

(37:38):
you actually caught it. Explain that.
I think it's just. It starts with muscle memory.
I think it's just one of you just do things so many time that
you can almost just like do it in your sleep.
So there'll be times where I go up and make a play, you know, or
catch a ball and I just don't even remember it happening
because it's just, I don't know if it's just, I'm so used to
doing it, you know, almost like when you're driving, if I'm

(37:59):
driving South here going like tothe airport, I almost
accidentally get off at the facility.
I don't do it anymore, but I almost accidentally get off at
the facility accident just because I've done it so many
times. So it's just the same, same
thing, You know, I'd be running the slant route and I can do it
in my sleep. You know, Matthew, he puts it on
the same spot sometimes, just depending on how it's going and
just. Don't even remember, I just
remember I have to play. Oh, how did that happen?

(38:20):
You say your long time quarterback Matt Stafford, who
we talked to the other night. That at your party spoke about
how when you first the two of you started playing together,
you guys were not on the the same page.
What led to you guys syncing up?Yeah, I mean, time LED us
syncing up time, communication and just me getting to
understand like, OK, Matthew just always throws A fastball.

(38:42):
OK, you're ready. As simple as that.
OK, but when was it at its worst?
After he came back from injury, he got injured early and then he
came back, You know, Sean Hill had all this touch, you know,
all we had to play with like 5 different quarterbacks, you
know, and then, you know, you used to seeing that change up,
change up, change up and then come with that fastball all the
time. You'll get back ready.
I remember at the time, you know, I was, I was mad because I

(39:02):
was like, dude, like you're effing my fingers up.
But but. Like I said, you got used to it
and like they say, it's just oneis for me right now, it's more
of appreciation. I'm like, man, anybody got to
play with that kid? Like if you're catching that
ball with your hands, I'll call you your receiver now.
What do you think of him no longer playing for the Lions?
Good for him, he got to get awayand go somewhere where he really

(39:22):
wanted. To be, I think, you know, he
spent a lot of time in California.
I honestly thought he might end up in Texas.
That's where he's from. I'm sure he wouldn't mind going
there. But once Dak Prescott showed he
was going to be healthy, I was like, Oh yeah, that's not
happening. But you know, being in Cali, he
spent a lot of time there and all the season, I think he's
very comfortable. What did it mean for you to have
him at your ceremony? Oh, it's huge.
You know, I appreciate him coming.
I wasn't sure if he was going tobe able to make it because I
knew he's going to be in training camp.

(39:43):
But I think, I mean, Sean was a cool coach.
I'm I mean, I met Sean, so he's a cool guy.
And I think that just the fact that we have a good
relationship, me more so with Matt, you know, that he he
allowed him to come out. So the Hall of Fame take me
through. Everything that you can remember
from finding out you were being inducted, starting with the door

(40:03):
knock. That day at the door knock,
obviously my wife knew that day and then the day before.
So she did a hell of a job. She's never I could tell when
she's like holding something. So she did a good job there way.
She played it off and she said we had a family call and we it
wasn't. Out of the ordinary because it's
Corona, you know, we would do a call like a monthly college,
check up everybody on FaceTime, yada, yada, yada.
And she's like, I think my friend Mel's coming over.

(40:25):
So I hear knock, knock, knock. I look at the door, I'm like,
mail, like mail is like freakingmail.
Ain't number like 5-5 if that, you know, I see there's like a
bear at the door and I'm like, what the hell?
So I started walking to where mypistol's at.
Oh, really? Oh, yeah.
I was going to get my pistol. I don't use the door at night
without my pistol. Crazy.
Maybe in Michigan. Well, I'm going to eat my

(40:48):
pistol. My wife is like, dude, you're
good. You do not need your pistol once
you set up. I'm like, what you mean I'm
good? What you mean?
And like it's night time. You see this person at the door
and she's like, you good. I'm like, OK, something's up.
And then it starts to like, holymoly, this ain't right.
This ain't real. Because I didn't think I was
honestly, I was like, man, I don't even know if it's going to
happen. And and then she's like, go

(41:09):
answer the door. And as I'm walking through the
door, I'm like, oh, it's starting to sink in.
I'm like, oh, and I opened up the door.
I'll just was at a loss, loss ofwords at that point.
What were you thinking? I'm like Ashley, how I'm like,
it's dream. That's that until the next day.
Like I was like, you know, I wasliterally pinching myself.
I'm like this. Real like it's.
Real. Yeah, because even now talking

(41:30):
about it, you can tell. Even now still, I mean, it's
starting to sink in. I got the jacket and all, but I
think that it'll all come home. Like when we when I get to go to
the game and get the ring in front of the fans, I think that
will that be real emotional time?
You aware enough of what's goingon in that moment where you
actually can remember it? Or is it kind of like I?
Remember. I remember every moment of it.
Yeah, I remember every moment ofit from David.

(41:51):
I might not remember every word,but from David at the door
telling me, you know, congratulations, you're 1 of
however many that have ever played it.
He's a he's an encyclopedia of the of football like.
You're one of one small number of however many 100 thousands of
guys or thousands of guys have come to the NFL and the hundreds

(42:12):
of millions have ever played thegame.
And I'm just like, man, stop. Like you, you're really making
it, you know, making a lot of really heavy on me right now,
you know? So yeah, it was.
An end in tears start to pour. And David Baker being the the
the Hall of Fame head, the the experience from this past week
that most sticks out to you. Would be what?
This the embrace, the guys embracing me, you know, the all

(42:36):
the gold jackets embracing me. There that was.
That was probably the most comfort, comforting thing.
You know, you never know how that's going to go, how that's
going to be. You know, you got all these
guys, all these, you know, alphas in one room and stuff
like that. But they were nothing but but
gracious, you know, you know, sheer like, you know, from
Marshall to Bruce Smith to Charles Haley to, you know, Irv

(42:58):
and Carter, man, just being ableto just had to have those
conversation with those guys that you looked up to.
Harold Carmichael, like the first big wide receiver, you
know what I'm saying? Just it's, you can't put those
conversations in the word how, what they mean.
You know, it's hard to, you know, it's just, it's just, it's
just like I say, it's just the greatest honor, you know, just
to be able to have those conversations, you know, that

(43:19):
nobody else can have, that nobody else know about, you
know, the things that happened in the locker room, you know?
Is there a single favorite part from?
The past week, man, the funniestthing to me that happened when I
was talking to Jimmy Johnson, there's a lot of funny things
that happened. Jimmy Johnson was telling me
about the time his Cowboys went out to play the Redskins or the
Washington Football Team now on the well on the East Coast.

(43:39):
I think they're He said they're already in the playoffs.
This might have been one of the last games of the season and
they laid an. Egg out there.
He said he went back into the plane.
He'd always go back there with the win or lose and talk to the
team or whatever. He said he was talking to his
team or he went back to check onthe team after the loss and
they're right there having a good time playing cards, yada
yada. Ya, He said he saw the store
just pulling out the the food tray.

(44:00):
She's like, Nah, they not eatingon this flight.
He told her to put the food up and they just flew home.
Like, you know, without eating. I'm just sitting there thinking
like, that's the worst thing youcould do.
So the team like not give them food after 'cause you just you
just played four hours running around and you're looking
forward to getting something to eat.
And oh man, he made them sit up the plane without eating.
I was like, he was mad. They pissed him off that game.

(44:21):
Retirement tell about the conversation with your dad that
ended up leading to you playing in ninth season I.
Remember sitting there with my arm on the couch looking out the
window and it was like, man, dad, I don't think I could do it
anymore. My body is hurting.
Like it's not fun. You know, everything.
And all I do is run. You know, the joints is beating,
knees and ankles. They never stop swelling up, you

(44:43):
know? You know, it's just, it's been
rough to get out there on the field and play.
And he was just like, I'm like, I don't think I'm done.
He's just like, you know what, you know, he, I tell he didn't,
he didn't like, he, he didn't believe me at the time, but he's
like, man. And he took it in and he was
like, well, you think you could do it again?
And I sat there and I was sitting there thinking about, I
looked out the window. I looked up and it's like, and

(45:03):
before I could say anything, he's like, well, you thought
about it so you can do it one more time.
And I was like, all right, you right.
Like do it one more time. And there's too many.
There's about 3-4 games in that last season where I just didn't
want to be out there. Body hurts so bad.
Even though I'll take the, the Toradol.
Like when we were playing Saint Louis my last season, I had like
1 catch that game and I was, I just feel like I was just

(45:25):
running in sand the whole game, You know, I just couldn't, I
just couldn't push out my anklesbecause they're swollen,
swollen. So you just didn't have the
range of motion. So it just, it was just not fine
because I just like I said, I didn't have the juice.
That's what I got to call. I didn't have the juice.
And I always tell myself at the beginning, like I, I would like
to play 10 years, have 10,000 yards, you know, average 1000
yards a season and, and just leave an impact on the game.

(45:45):
But I did tell myself like once I feel like I'm not the same
putting out that same product. I'm done and hang them up.
And it was that time. And what was the different
feeling the last season? Just going to the game, you
know, not feeling confident because half the season I didn't
practice. And for me, I told you earlier,
like preparation, you know, that's when that's when I'm at
the most kind. I feel a little paranoid when I
don't get all the preparation that I need.

(46:06):
Feel like I'm missing something.And every week all would be
doing. And while the team was
practicing, I'll be inside, maybe, you know, running in the
water treadmill, just trying to keep my wind up or biking all
week and just maybe I'll go out there to end the practice.
And just watch, Yeah, I knew what to do.
But for me, just having those live reps, you know, that meant
a lot for me. And not being able to do that
with the team, You know, I, I, me personally, I hated seeing

(46:27):
guys like that. Didn't practice all all.
You know, and I hear guys comingfrom other teams, they come here
like like dude, like why you runso much?
Why they why do y'all do it likethis?
I'm like, dude, that's all we know.
We're in Detroit. We're trying to get it, you
know, we've been forever trying to get it, you know, So we got
to work. We got to work hard, we got to
bust our ass. But you come from other teams
like dude, dude, we don't run our stars like that.
You know, Larry, don't run like that guy doesn't run like that.

(46:49):
And he's like, hey, that's all we know.
What if at all about how Barry Sanders retired influenced you
it? Didn't, but if funny come come
to find out there might have been some of the same reasons.
You know, for me, like I said, my body was shook, my body was
done, but at the same time, I feel like the the team they
weren't retaining some of the top talent that we had.

(47:11):
So I saw it as a time to rebuildand I'm like.
I'm not here to rebuild. We're going to win.
We have to win now or we're not going to win at all.
And I felt like, you know, we had those guys on the team.
When you had those guys on your team, those studs, you got to
get the get you got to you got to fill it up, get it in there.
Like when you get a chance to even when you sniff in the
playoffs and you feel like you can get there maybe on a couple,
you got to fill that team up andget the team in there.

(47:32):
If you want a chance to win thatSuper Bowl.
You know, I feel like that was our challenge.
You know, we had the staff, but we had so we had the offense.
I was putting out 5000 yards a year.
We had one of the we had a top defense.
You know, we had some mean defensive lineman in there.
You know, we just had a couple more pieces in the back end
there. You know, we had some decent.
But you know, we we got a team there, but we we got rid of like
3 guys on that defensive line after that year of maybe that

(47:55):
last time we went to the playoffs and.
Why? Why did you get rid of them?
Yeah. What do you think that is?
I don't know if it's personalityor money.
But I know the personality, the team personnel, we're good on
the team. Not have been personalities
upstairs that get clashed with some of the guys on the team.
But I forget y'all y'all down onthe field.
Man, if we go down here, that's all that matters, you know?
Was that the feeling among the the teammates that were still

(48:18):
around? Well, the ones that I mean, the
teammates that were still around, I think I mean, it's
easy for anybody to see. I mean, you get rid of three of
your top 4 defensive lineman you're and you get rid of sewing
along with one of those guys youknow?
You're in the rebuilding mid year.
You're not you're not planning on going to the playoffs because
D line, they're the one part of the half the reason why you get
there because they're the ones that shut that get on the

(48:40):
quarterback that forced some Aaron throws to come out so the
secondary can get in on the action and get some picks and
get us back on the off, get the offensive back on the field.
If you don't have that, then you're just getting run up and
down the field and that's what happened.
You know, they're just running the ball on us.
Why did your first year away youwere retired?
Why did you want nothing to do with the game?
I, I didn't, I was, I was done with football.

(49:02):
I was just like, I've been around it all my whole life, you
know, or at least until this point and I'm done with.
I just didn't have anything before the game.
Maybe it was part of the way I was treated when I left from the
Lions too. But it wasn't long.
It didn't take the next, the following year I started
watching a little bit more. The year after that I was
watching about every game. I was like, man, I'm like,

(49:23):
there's not there's not too manymore guys that I actually grew
up playing with that are still playing.
So I want to be able to watch some of these guys play.
That was part of it. And like, let me let me check
these, let me let me let me TuneIn to Matt.
Let me see Matt play. Let me see, you know, so I still
watch the lions play. You know, I was still a fan of,
of, of, of Matthew and the guys that were still on the team.
For sure Slay and all those guys.
So the injuries that you alludedto take me to a morning that you

(49:46):
would wake up while you were still playing.
I mean, every morning, you know,especially the last couple
years, I can't even walk. I get up in the morning.
I literally slide across the floor like shuffle because I
don't have any bend in my ankles, you know, because you
wake up everything just super stiff and it takes a little
while. I let every every morning I get
up. I.
Shuffle across the floor and I get out.
I'll be out the house. Like, you know, I wake up, I'm

(50:08):
probably out the house in like 10 minutes.
And I go to work and I'll get tothe facility and do ankle work
like Steve, sure, he was my PT and he was just work the ankles
out to try to free them up and move all the, you know, the, the
fluid around in there. So I can, you know, and then
tape them up. So I can, you know, move around
and. That was a daily basis.
Name all the injuries that you can recall sustaining during

(50:30):
your career. You know, broken fingers, ankle
sprains, ligaments in the knees.Not full tears, just partial
tear. I fortunately never had a full
tear since college. But I think the ankles and
knees, you know, the scopes to get in the knee drain before
games, all that stuff took tolls.
Let's see that finger, by the way.

(50:50):
Which one? Yeah.
That one, yeah, of course, that one.
So this one was stuck. So then this one, it was stuck
like this for the whole like 11th season.
So I played the whole 11th season like catching balls like
like this. And then I was like, man, I
cannot keep playing like this because sometimes a ball would
hit that finger like, you know, and it would hurt like a mother.
Especially when Stafford. That's what I'm saying.

(51:11):
Like he's all it would throw to me.
So I think every time it would like straighten it out, when it
wasn't, it wasn't able to straighten out and I just, it
would hurt so bad. So I was just, I was like, OK,
let me tape them together. So that kind of helped out a
little bit. And then I finally was like, let
me go get this operation. The trainer at the time told me
I should wait till I was done planning to get the operation.
I'm like, dude, do you see my freaking finger?
I can't even put my hand in my pocket right now.

(51:32):
Yeah. So when I got the operations
doctor, John Hawkins up in New York, I got a special hand
surgery placed right up there inin in New York City.
He went up there. He told me it would never be
straight again, but I'll at least be able to function, use
it and put my hand in my pocket.So, So this is as straight as it
is ever going to get. I could you know, straighten it
up a little bit, but that's as straight as it's.
Going to get it doesn't really, you know, it hurts, you know,

(51:54):
when I'm gripping stuff, you know, or if I'm playing golf for
a while. But that's what I'm topicals are
for, you know, and. What was the 1st?
Year injury you alluded to in your Hall of Fame speech with
the back where you. See, nobody knows about that.
Except for the people that actually dare, you know, it's so
fun, so. We're playing the Eagles.
It's probably the first half of the season, early in the season

(52:15):
playing the Eagles and I had safety in the corner on me.
I go up there, literally I'm in the middle of them.
I go up and they're up under me.So I'm thinking I'm going to
call falling by. I go down to the grace like
split and I literally fall on the small of my back.
I hit the ground and I lay in there and I'm literally like I
can't feel my legs. So I immediately start to tear
up and I'm like oh like I can't feel anything.

(52:37):
And it took a little 2nd and Donovan McNabb come over.
He's like, come on, little fella, get up, you know, And my
coach was like, come on, we're going to walk off this field.
And I get up, he helped me up and I end up like like hobbling
over to the sideline. It took a while, but I probably,
I'm I'm not sure how long the ordeal took, but it took me a
while to be able to get up and walk off the field.
I had to walk off under under help.
But he like he maybe he's like, we're going to walk off this

(52:58):
field. I was trying Jay.
He's like, we're going to show no weakness.
I was like, damn, coach, I can'tfeel my legs, man.
And. It started to come back as
really tingly and. And I get off to the side and
they bring the card over drivingoff the field.
And that's why that's why I hatePhiladelphia fans, man.
I was getting card off the fieldand they were throwing and
booing. I was like, y'all, my just don't
even know. I can't even feel my legs like
y'all some but you know, that's just Philly fans, you know for

(53:21):
it. But that's the instant and it
took a while for me to actually be able to run.
I couldn't run. I literally couldn't.
Run for like a whole like week or two.
Like and, and the coach is therepushing me and I'm like dude,
y'all just don't Nobody, nobody really understood because you
can't see it. They see me, I look good you
know, but they don't see what's happening on the inside.
And I literally, I was hooked upto machines like by
chiropractors that would like pull my lower body and hold my

(53:43):
other upper body and pull up andpull it.
I'm like it was terrifying. I'm like this thing don't mess
up. But you know, the stuff like
that, 'cause I had this like bulging and stuff like that and
it just sharp pains and those like, I mean, and that's what
the, that's what the medicine was, the tour dolls and that
stuff they took off that dull and allowed you to play.
But that whole first year, even through like the end of the
year, it took me a long time to get that back right.
And even now, if I'm not constantly doing back exercises,

(54:06):
I'll wake up and it feels like, it feel, literally feel like I
don't have a back. You remember what those two
weeks were like when you couldn't.
Run. It was hell because I had
coaches that wanted me to play, that wanted me to get back on
the field. I got doctors that not saying
that that's that can't tell me what's wrong, but I know that I
can't. If I try to run, it's just like
I'm getting stabbed in the back.How about issues with your body

(54:26):
today? Today I'm good.
I mean, so if I do a camp like for my guys and I'm not there
doing the drills, I feel like I just played a full game.
I'll just be out there like, hey, this is the three steps I
want or you know, this is how you do.
I just do a display on each eachone of the drills I do with the
guys. And I swear to God, like by that
evening my ankles are swollen. The next day I wake up in the
morning, I'm shuffling across the ground again 'cause I feel

(54:47):
like I just played. And even if you ride a bicycle
with the ankles right? Yeah, I feel my ankle will
swallow up anything on time. I'm doing anything with any kind
of impact, like if I snowboard alot but fortunately by the
snowboard boots they keep it compressed but I still.
Like start to swell up after I take off the compression.
And what about the rib? I got a rib that that I don't
know. I remember this happened in
practice, man. I got I got hit one time and my

(55:10):
rib just sticks out all the timenow and it's just yeah, that
it's easy. Like they they like they'll I
don't have any car. That's what I don't have
cartilage on it. I like RIP the carlet.
So like they'll get like this and all of a sudden sometimes I
do something weird. I play too much golf.
They'll like stack up like this and it takes I get to see my
chiropractor and he'll he'll tighten.
Me up and a knee. You have a knee issue.

(55:30):
Knees are good, these are good. Now I might feel a little pain
or swell up, but I don't have any issues with there and I used
to get those things drained before every game.
You know, but fortunately I don't have too many issues
there. Describe the feeling when you
get a concussion. You know, you might blank out,
you might see stars, you have headache.
You can I never got to the pointwhere I I've thrown up, but I've
seen people get to the point where they've they've already

(55:51):
thrown up. You can't sleep.
Just headaches, migraines. I think that's the main thing
that I had was just migraines. But other than that, you know, I
haven't had. I don't feel like I've had too
many side effects from. Them.
Hopefully God love them. What do you mean when you see
stars? Like what's that actually?
It's like literally like blinking lights.
You know, you never like, you know, just blinking little like

(56:11):
you're like right here, but you got blinking lights.
How many like do you think you've had?
I mean, true, it's hard to tell,man.
Then that's the thing. A concussion, it can be as so
little as, you know, just a bump, but as long as that that
your brain touched that score, that is a concussion.
So it could be, I mean, you get a concussion just from driving
in the car and, and, and gettingin a little minor Fender Bender.

(56:33):
So think about how many times wehit head, head or that head.
Hits the ground. You can't really call how many
times, how many little or major concussion you.
Had and did I hear you say somewhere you think upwards of
10? Yeah, easily.
I mean, you play, you're going to get a concussion every year
if you play football. And how many of those do you you
as a player actually report I? Remember there was a discrepancy
one time where I said I did and the lion saying I did, and it

(56:55):
was just like, OK, you're going to tell me, but you know,
they're just trying to protect their butts.
You say you have a concussion and then you have to go back and
say you misspoke. There's a game that we played
the Vikings. And I was going up over the
middle mat threw it up. It was up.
And it it, it touched my hand. So I probably should have caught
it. But I I felt the line.
I felt, oh, it wasn't that linebacker right up on him.
I literally came down chin on his head and gossip cheerless.

(57:18):
He always like when I got tackled, he was always there.
Here's my dog. I got up too fast and I went
right back down. He caught me.
And I'm not sure if that was thesame time when that happened.
But I mean, like, you know, you could look at the look at the
film and see what happened. Like that's a concussion.
What was the conversation that took place with the team?
Where? Yeah, there was, you know, you
talking to the. Trainers, they're like, yeah,

(57:38):
this came out, but we don't haveit, you know, written up as we
didn't report. I think this is the thing they
didn't report, you know, whatever.
So, you know, they're, they're just, you know, cover your butt.
Should doctors that diagnose concussions in the NFL work for
the team you're playing for? No, no conflict adventures.
They're going to do what the team wants.
All. Of that they're.
Going to do what the team wants.The team wants you in the field.

(58:00):
They're going to push you to getback on the field.
You know, not to say that there's not no doctors that take
your best interest. Not saying that all of our
doctors on the Lions didn't do that, but I mean, there's a
conflict of interest there, clearly.
Why do you think that hasn't been changed when it's so
obvious? I mean, unless the NFL is going
to go out there and pay for all the doctors.
I mean, still, if it's the NFL doing it, then still slightly a

(58:22):
conflict. So I don't know.
I don't know how you get around that.
I don't know how. And they're not going to let
anybody just in. Concerns for lasting damage.
You know, all you do is just pray for the best, just live
life to the fullest while you'rehere.
And like I say, just we're just trying to find solutions that
that'll help us out. Right.
I mean, but you have to have. Thought about it before.
Yeah, of course. I mean, when sure, the
Concussion movie came out, everybody was thinking about it

(58:42):
and people still think about it to today.
I mean, a lot of rules, we've seen a lot of rules change
recently because of that. I mean, when I was playing, it
was OK to do the crack back. I mean, it changed later in my
career. It was OK to, you know, because
we celebrated, we celebrated that stuff.
It was a, it was a, it was a, itwas a part on ESPN.
Like I forget what it was called.
Like when you knock somebody out, you know, I forget there's
a segment. So, you know, it's not

(59:04):
celebrated no more. But I mean, it's football you're
going to have. Concussions.
You're going to have injuries. You alluded to this a bit ago
when we were talking about retirement and Barry Sanders,
you've, I mean, pretty publicly said you didn't feel like you
were treated the way you should have been on the way out.
How so? You know, for me, you know, I
felt I did a lot for the city. You know, honestly, are you

(59:25):
talking about dollars and cents?I mean, I I played half my
contract and I earned half the money on the contract.
So why you coming after me? But what?
Really made me feel out of way with like, damn, you see Romo
come out, you see Andrew Luck come out.
You see how their owners take care of them.
I had the honor of meeting Jim Urge saying I see why he did
that because he has he's in touch with his players.
I talked to Edrin this weekend when he got in drafted with the
2020 class. I see why he didn't come out the

(59:48):
lot because he loves his guys. He spends time with his players.
I asked him like, was he like always around you guys?
I'm like, dude, like he's like afriend.
You know, I'm like, you don't who who who says that about
their owner in the NFLI mean yousee Jerry Jones around, but you
don't think you hear the guys maybe say he's a friend.
You can appreciate the fact thathe's around and has his eye on
everything. You know when we're playing with
the Lions. I mean, you see them out of

(01:00:10):
practice, but I mean not only that, that wasn't all everyday
thing, you know, when I was playing.
And how do you think that different dynamic ultimately
ended up impacting the end result?
Well, that affected us because they just see us as we're just
pawns out there. We're just numbers.
You know, they don't see the personalities, they don't see
the people. I'm just now getting to learn
the ownership. I didn't I never really spoke to
them when I played. I played.

(01:00:31):
I actually spoke, told spoke to Bill young man for it because
he's not really part of the teamas much anymore.
Seem like all the sisters and and the mother took over.
But I mean, he would be in the training room when I would be in
the training room all the time. You know, he'd be out there
working out. So I had to have a good
conversation with him. But after that, he was going, I
mean, they weren't really aroundthe team.
How did the the team? Respond that they either

(01:00:52):
privately or publicly when you first kind of addressed your
misgivings. I don't even remember how the
team actually responded. I mean, I spoke to ownership,
you know, that day when I told the team that I was done.
So, you know, they were just like, you know.
Thank you. We appreciate.
You know all that kind of stuff.So and.
What do you make of their efforts to resolve it?

(01:01:13):
Not really any effort. No.
I mean, I mean they sent us somestuff but not hasn't been really
any effort to resolve it so. Do you think it's likely that
that there will be positive resolution?
That'd be nice. No, I'm not.
I'm not going to, you know, close the chapter, you know, but
I'm not going to, you know, bendover backwards to try to do
anything because I didn't do anything.
I did my job. What do you think has to happen

(01:01:34):
to make it right? I'm not saying they got to repay
me the the 1.6 all up front but then they figure out a way to do
it and not and not have me work for it because I already did the
work for it. Because that was the offer that
was made, right that. Come work for it, right?
That's a joke. Your wife, who you know once you
worked for the team, who is, youknow, your staunchest defender

(01:01:57):
and tough lady, she said. It's the principal.
It's petty pissing match over 1.6 million when they actually
saved money. Time can't heal all wounds.
That's what she said the other day on the.
Phone that's and I'll put it like.
This imagine like you had a friend, or maybe not even a
friend, just somebody they gave you something and then they take

(01:02:18):
it back and are y'all going to still really hang out?
You know, y'all still cool like and, and imagine you did a whole
bunch of work for it too. It's the principle.
It's the principle of it. Like no, you cannot have me back
if you unless you put that moneyback in my pocket.
I ain't got to do it all at once.
You ain't got to do it, but you got to commit to do it in the
right way. You know, don't have me.
I'm not working for it. I don't mind coming and doing

(01:02:39):
work for the for the organization because I love
football, love pouring back intothe team.
Well, there ain't no way in the world I'm coming back over there
to do anything unless that's coming back and I see how it's
coming back. I probably shouldn't have said
friend because it wasn't a friend.
It's more of a call, you know, just it wasn't a friend
situation with a friend that would hurt.
A little more. And with a friend, I'd probably
try to figure out a way to work out.
There was no friendship there, it was just a work relationship.
Is that why you consciously kindof decided not to address the

(01:03:03):
team in the Hall of Fame speech?I mean, Mama always tell you, if
you've got nothing good to say, don't say it at all, right?
So. You know, I don't have anything
to say to the organization personally, but the fans, you
know, they've been the ones thatthat have been, they've been
there to support. You know, I was drafted pretty
high whether I came to the Lionsor not, and I was going to a
team, you know, and I was going to appreciate those fans or

(01:03:26):
whoever that team was for who they were.
But you know, more than anythinghere in Detroit, it's about the
fans. They made it that much more.
You know, you know, great to be in that stadium, you know, to
play in front of because I mean one what we've been through here
in Detroit and you know what we built out of that, you know,
coming from O 116 and the fans still being there all that time
and supportive. You know, I'm not just, I mean

(01:03:47):
of everybody, the family, all ofthe families so love Detroit
sports, you know, love the city.I've been to all the sports
venues. I mean, it's a great time for
sports. So, you know, that's why I said
what I said, you know, but I don't have, I should have
anything to. Say, and obviously you're one of
the greatest wide receivers everto live, one of the greatest
players of all time. I mean, there is the desire to

(01:04:08):
figure it out and repair the relationship, right?
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I love football, you know, it's
not. This ain't about the team, you
know, I still pour into those guys when I can.
You know, I still hang out with those guys when I can.
So if the team wants to, you know, get their stuff together,
that's cool. I'll be happy to come back and
pour into the team. I do it with other teams so.
Might as well be the Lions, too.Shoot, they gotta get their

(01:04:28):
stuff together though first. Married life.
Yeah, Why Brittany? No, This is why.
This is How I Met Brittany. Brittany was working as an
intern my second year in the league.
And she had, you know, and the Lions didn't have like these
safe shirts on. I don't even know what the
acronym means, but there's security.
And so she was, that's her internship.
She was working in front of overthere by the receiver position.

(01:04:49):
So Roy Williams at the time, he was like, man.
You see that girl, you know you got camp eyes.
You know any female at the time just walking around, all you see
is dudes. All any female is good.
And Roy was like, man, I bet youwon't go say nothing.
I'm like this, you crazy how much you want to bet and you bet
put 100 on it. So end up saying Long story
short, he gave me that hundred. I went to go meet her after
practice when she was on her wayto the car.

(01:05:10):
I feel like I was all nasty and sweaty probably.
But anyway, I tracked her down, went to go holler at her and,
you know, really didn't even talk to her since from that
point when we saw each other outand stuff.
And but we really weren't really, really talking at the
point because she knew I had a had a had somebody else talking
to and she was like, Nope, don'twant no parts of that because I
know I'm like, how you know, youlike there's a thing called
social media. I was like, oh, OK, OK, now that

(01:05:33):
social media gets you in trouble, but.
And you're also a football player, too.
And she, you know, grew up in a football family and probably,
probably knows better. Exactly.
She already knows. She's like, OK, y'all out here
being dogs and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.
And you know, it's just for me, I was like, man, like she just
had my eye ever since. You know, and about it was six
years later, five years later before we even really, really

(01:05:55):
got acquainted again. Oh, really?
Yeah. It was like, like I told you,
she didn't want to mess with me because I had a a little like a
girlfriend at a time. And oh, for some reason we was
always real awkward around each other.
I think we both liked each other, but it was just always
awkward. I remember one time Nate
Burleson tried to get us at at adinner and I forget what it was,
but it was just the most awkwardscene because we were just

(01:06:17):
sitting across from each other wearing talking to each other
and everybody else was trying toget us to talk.
So it was just, you could tell Dan like there was something up,
but I didn't think about it likeI am now.
Like, damn, oh, she liked me. I liked her, but that's what.
It was. So how did you guys go out for
the first time? She hit.
Me up saying I'm coming through Atlanta, you know, and I'm like,
oh shoot, that's what's up. But I'm going to Florida.
I'm going out of Miami with the boys, you know?
And she's like, oh shoot, I'm going to Miami too.

(01:06:39):
And I'm like, oh shit, that's crazy.
I'm going out for my birthday and.
I'm like, oh shoot, this is an. Opportunity so we're down there
and and I actually get her cake.It worked.
And then from that point on we were like, we're talking and.
Now we're here, yeah. OK, so one of the stranger
proposal stories. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

(01:07:00):
The night of proposal, I forget I'm getting some award in
Baltimore. Wait.
Wait, wait, we need to backtrackto to you mailing a package to
the house and asking her to pickit up for you.
I totally forgot about that. Wow.
So I think I had. Was it the ring?
I think I had to mail the ring. I forgot why it was mailed by.
Either I forgot it or something happened.

(01:07:22):
I had her to get her to bring itand I had to get her to bring it
without her opening it up. I forget how I did that.
And this is like a year before you propose.
This is a while before I proposed it was I forget where
we're going, but it was a time Ithink we're.
French. That's what it was.
And we're, yeah, we're going to France and I was going to
propose. I don't know why I didn't.
I forget why I didn't propose. Maybe she she'll probably be

(01:07:46):
able to be able to tell you better.
But when I did propose, we were in Baltimore and I knew I was, I
was so nervous because I was going to propose that this one
night and we fell asleep, literally fell asleep and woke
up and it was like after 9:00 and I'm like, oh, I blew it.
That was my chance. I was going to propose to her on
the pier and all this stuff. And we were home.

(01:08:08):
We woke up home. And so I'm like, OK, that's
sushi spot open, let's go get some food, go get some food, you
know, eat up, yada yada. We're walking back.
We're walking back at the pier. And I was like, you know, let me
see your finger, you know, and I'll mess with her.
I'll 'cause I, I knew I was going to, I was going to propose
her that night, but I wanted to mess with her before and I.
Did she know it was coming? She.
Didn't know it was coming. I had a ring measurement thing

(01:08:29):
tool I got from one of my friends or something.
I was just like let me see your hand and I stuck it on her
finger and she started to get excited and I was like, I just
want to measure your finger, seewhat your ring size is over
there. I was just messing around and
she was pissed. She was very mad.
She started to storm off and shestarted walking back towards the
hotel and we're on a pier and I'll hold up, hold up, come
back, you know. And then I got down on my knee
and I actually pulled a ring outand actually proposed to her.

(01:08:50):
And yeah, she say yes. And that was that.
I probably left out a couple details there, but she probably,
yeah. Done with the kids.
Done with kids. But she says we're done.
We're done. I got three boys you got.
I got a 7 year old boy from a former relationship.
He's seven years old and then I got AI, got a three-year old and

(01:09:12):
I got a four month old. What's the hardest part of
parenting and the way you you went with the your son that
lives in Atlanta? It's tough because obviously you
know, your Co parent might not see eye to eye on everything,
but you know, it's just really just, you know, trying to keep
the lines of communication open.They weren't great at first
because obviously, you know, yougot the whole baby Mama

(01:09:34):
situation and you're not married.
There's tension there between families and stuff.
We all went through that. But that was, you know, seven
years ago. And now we're at a point where,
you know, I invite her to the Hall of Fame ceremony.
You know, him and the mom came and we're all in there.
Just, you know, we even partied after together.
So it's a good thing to be in the situation where we're all in

(01:09:54):
the same page. And you guys deserve a lot of
credit for that, because it's probably easier said than done.
It's so much easier said than done.
It's that's another movie itself.
So your mom was a strict one, your dad was a laid back one?
How do you and Brittany Co. Parent, you know, we we switch
off like there'd be sometimes where, you know, I'd be on the
boys hard and then she'd be chill and she'd like calm down
there all right, and there's sometimes where mom where she

(01:10:15):
get where she get on now and I'mlike, I don't say nothing to her
when she get on. I'm just letting like just let
her do what she do so. I don't know, I feel like I got
a mix of both. The non cannabis work?
How much private receiver consultation work do you still
do? Probably a couple of every year.
OK, I don't do as much than whenI first came out because I just,

(01:10:36):
you know, it's you want to be inthe game and I still want to be
in the game, but I just don't have the time to do it as much
as I used to. But I love to go travel and meet
new guys, especially guys that are that a lot of guys try to
get, you know, meet with tall guys that are, you know, maybe
even taller or lengthier, just can't move their feet as.
Well, problem example is like, hey, my feet weren't, weren't
always following fire. They weren't, they didn't always

(01:10:57):
move real fast, but I worked them out.
I worked it out, you know, and it's all you got to do is you
got to work it out. What do you enjoy about that?
I love just. Pouring into the guys and really
just, you know, just seeing them.
Maybe I'll try to dump everything into them.
I just wanted to grasp a couple things and I just want to see it
in the game. Like like I had the opportunity
to talk chat with Chris got when, you know, when he was a
young man. See him now as a champ down

(01:11:18):
there in Tampa and playing with Tom Brady and he, you know, tell
me. Thank you.
I'm, I'm just hope I'll be able to pour into guys like that man,
because it means a lot just to, you know, see those guys have
success, especially after you'vebeen able to work with them a
little bit. Why locker room consulting?
It's perfect name. You know, Rob, I and we came
back from Italy doing like a Italian Football League, Super

(01:11:39):
Bowl. They had a Super Bowl over
there. We went out there and we're a
special guest and we're sitting over there thinking about just
about business opportunities. You know, we're just sitting in
all these rooms, you know, just talking business and from
football to, you know, apparel and different things.
And we was like, man, you know, a lot of guys, you know, when
they come out the league, they get taken advantage of.
You know, I've, I've been part of that.

(01:12:01):
You want to stop it. You want to help guys put a good
team around them of advisors so that, you know, they can, you
know, cut through a lot of the BS and you know, just really,
you know, get to what they're whatever it is that they want to
do in their post football life and just surround them with a
network of people that they can lean on.
So that's our goal with locker room consulting And then as well
create business opportunities for them to invest in as well.

(01:12:22):
But I think the first and foremost is just making sure the
player themselves is is in a good shape.
Because too often there and there's a long history of
documented poor financial decisions which lead to players
who, you know, make the bulk majority of their lifetime
earnings over. A handful of years broke

(01:12:42):
shortly. After it's like I say, it's all
it somebody's always going to come with the next get rich
quick scheme. And I say, I've been part, I've
been I've been part of them bad business transactions too.
So it's just a matter of puttingthe right people around you that
can, you know, dive a little deeper into what what's really
going on and. Having that team of people
around is will save. It will save you a lot of
trouble. Do I have this right that you

(01:13:03):
franchised an Auntie Anne? I did and.
That's one of those business ventures out that I'm talking
about. It didn't didn't go really well
for me because, you know, one thing I learned about is you got
to be there. You got to be there.
You got to put your stamp on it,you know, and now I was up here
most of the time and that was down in Georgia.
And then you, you put people. One thing that I learned really
quick after playing football is that not everybody's going to do
things the way you do and then try to live up to a standard of

(01:13:25):
excellence in everything that they do.
You know, I had to change from what I say, like living up to,
you know, trying to be perfect. Obviously there's only one
person that walk this earth thatwas perfect.
And we're we're not that, you know, we're always going to fall
short. But if you're just striving for,
I mean, for me, I strove for perfection, knowing that wasn't
going to be perfect, but trying to do every little thing to the
best of my ability. That's all it was really for me.

(01:13:47):
You know, it's really just trying to strive for.
Excellence and everything that you do.
So what was the kind of take away from that experience?
The big take away from me was that if I'm not there, if I'm
not there to see it, if I'm not there to push it, you know, I
can't rely on somebody else to to put in the same kind of
effort that I would. What attracted you to real
estate? Real estate was tangible, you
know, something I could see, youknow, something that I, I can

(01:14:09):
actually, you know, put my handson something I can actually
move. And it's not, it's not something
intangible like a stock. You know, where you're not sure
what the rhyme or reason is for what it's doing.
So that's easier for guys to come out of lead to, to grasp
because some of them already doing.
And then and that's just something that you can see.
It's much easier to deal with and then you can't you can trust
yourself. You know, it's hard to trust a

(01:14:31):
lot of other people to do the dodo like, you know, your stock
portfolio or stuff like that. I mean, fortunate, I'm in the
fortunate position to have some people I can trust.
And that's why I wanted, that's why locker room is existing, so
we can help put other people in those good situations.
And how do you go about decidingwhat to invest in?
Just, you know, use your team, use my advisory team.
You know, we dive through it, dive through all the pros and
cons. Is it true that your mom was

(01:14:53):
instrumental in helping negotiate your kind of big NFL
contract? You know what, I know Bus Cook,
you know he's my agent. I know Bus Man Bus is going to
relate. He's going to relate whatever is
going on to Mama Johnson. So I'm sure that he relate
whatever was happening to to my mom.
So that's why she was thoroughlyinvolved.
I guess that's the one thing I've learned to appreciate

(01:15:14):
growing up, you know, is that she's going to dive into the
full to detail the nitty gritty,get into it.
And then that kind of annoyed meat first, you know, especially
as a grown man. But you know, she's been great,
you know, as far as like, you know, imparting that on me,
like, Hey, you better go throughit with a fine tube comb.
Because you want somebody havingyour back like that and also
imparting that wisdom. Best and worst financial

(01:15:35):
decision you've made. I feel like the best has been, I
would like to say, you know, joining the cannabis industry,
but that's yet to be told. That story's yet to be told.
The worst one I would have to say is probably loaning money.
You know, you loan money and youthink you're going to get it

(01:15:56):
back, especially like people that are close to it to you.
But for anybody I would tell now, like you loaning money to a
friend or anybody close to you, just know that.
You're not getting it back. You know, and I've loaned a lot
of money to people and you know,I've grown.
I'm just like, OK, I know I'm not going to get it back.
You know, it's cool with me now.But I think that what that does
though, is it sours relationships and relationships
are one thing, like money you could always get back.

(01:16:17):
But relationships, man, you knowthose are very you got to
cherish those you know and don't.
If you can not allow money to get involved in those
relationships, don't because that will money can easily mess
up a relationship. Best financial advice you ever
received? Best financial advice I ever
received was probably from my attorney.
Just let me read everything you get.

(01:16:40):
You know those attorneys, man, they, they pull out like, OK,
this isn't right. This right here, this little,
this little sentence right here can be the difference in like
you getting your money, you're not, you know, stuff like that,
you know, stuff that I wouldn't see.
And is there kind of a a granderpicture behind how you go about
managing your money? Yeah, I mean, I have a great
team. They've been around for a very
long time. And one thing I think.

(01:17:01):
That they have. Done that others haven't is just
been very, very big on education.
You know, anything I needed anything I don't know, anything
I might not know if they feel like I know.
I, I got people over there that are great at explaining anything
I need to know and like to the point where, you know, I, I
brought other people along to them, you know, and those people
that I've brought on to them are, are thankful, you know, so

(01:17:22):
that's what we're talking about,you know, just just being able
to add or bringing the guys intothat network.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Appreciate you doing. This no doubt.
The thanks for listening to my chat with Hall of Fame receiver
Calvin Johnson during our time together in Canton.
We also spoke with Johnson's immediate family, plus some
former coaches and teammates, including quarterback Matthew

(01:17:44):
Stafford. You can watch all that on our
YouTube channel, youtube.com/graham Bensinger.
Also there a tour of Johnson's Home Office memorabilia and find
out what special piece of gear he was able to stash away before
the Hall of Fame could. As always, we'd love to hear
your feedback. Please drop us a rating a review

(01:18:05):
to share your thoughts. Thanks again for listening.
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