August 25, 2025 • 55 mins
Graham sits down with Emmitt Smith to discuss moments from his NFL career, including the Cowboys’ infamous reputation, the Sports Illustrated cover jinx, and his first meeting with his football idol. The iconic running back also addresses his life in business, and gives his opinion as to why the NFL settlement with former players isn’t enough.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This week, a name synonymous with the Dallas Cowboys, Emmett
Smith. I played for the organization
that I always wanted to play forin the sport that I absolutely
loved. The NF LS all time leading
rusher says nothing could keep him from football as a kid,
including his father. Why'd your dad not want you to
play football? He knew how physically demanding
(00:21):
the sport really was on the body.
The Hall of Famer reflects on the most heart wrenching day of
his iconic career. It broke my heart so much I
cried for almost 30 minutes intomy locker.
And an unforgettable moment withhis football idol.
All of a sudden, Walter Payton shows up right over my head,
whispering in my ear. You going to be OK?
(00:42):
We begin with Smith opening up about how his post football plan
has led him to a successful career off the field.
I wanted to start by, you know, talking business.
Obviously that's where your yourhead's at now and that that's
what's consuming a large majority of your time.
(01:02):
But I want to take you back to when you were really young, you
go to your Pop Warner coach's house and you see blueprints on
the table. How did that impact you?
I think it has impacted me in a way that that has opened my mind
truly. And this is what he did for me.
I mean, he opened my mind to truly what the life could be
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like without football. And so I started thinking about,
OK, in my mind, I already said to myself, football is going to
end at some point. All I wanted to go on and do the
things that I've been able to dothus far through my sport and
and I wanted to transition that into something bigger.
Not knowing what bigger was until I met Staubach, Not
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knowing what bigger was until I met Irvin Johnson.
Not knowing what bigger was tillI met other former athletes who
had transitioned into Michael Jordan and others who has
transitioned over into the worldof entrepreneurship as well as
free enterprise. When I saw that then I
understood what that I had the capabilities of doing the same.
(02:09):
Thing and you had some businesses during your playing
career but it's really taken offpost career.
I wonder how does your enthusiasm for business compared
to the enthusiasm that you had for playing football?
You know, I would say they probably one in the same in the
context of excitement, the thrill of of the chase and and
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the agony of defeat. So it's never good to lose an
opportunity, and it's never goodto disappoint someone that
you're working with either. So just like in football, it is
you letting down the fans and not only letting down the fans,
but letting down your teammates and your organization.
In business, you're hurting families, you're hurting other
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businesses. So it's a lot more real.
You know, fans, on the other hand, yeah, they feelings get
hurt. But in business, livelihoods can
change for the better or for theworse.
So it's a little different, but they both kind of kind of
parallel each other. You mentioned Rodger Staubach,
you know, you also mentioned Dervin Johnson or or Magic, and
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he's obviously the most notable example of business success, at
least, you know, publicly among professional athletes.
But Staubach, I mean, created a massive business empire for
himself, sold it not too long ago for hundreds of millions of
dollars. Former Cowboys quarterback.
(03:43):
Explain why you reached out to him early on in your career.
As you grew up, you encounter people that give you tad bits of
wisdom along the way. And along the way I've learned.
And this came when I'll be when I, when I was a professional
athlete through a marketing guy,Warner Scott at the time, he
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said always surround yourself with people who are smarter than
you, but most importantly, you better learn from them along the
way. And so learning from others
along the way and having a connection with Roger Staubach
and having a connection with theIrvin Johnson.
But most importantly, having a guy that I was working for like
a Jerry Jones, who were, who wasable to allow me to sit down in
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his office and listen at some ofhis business conversation
conversations was was paramount for me.
And, you know, having this opportunity to have a dialogue
with Roger and understand what he did actually just said to me,
yes, I can do it. The question becomes not how you
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go about well, it it it's a how and a win.
How will you go about doing it and when you do it?
Investing in yourself after football is more critical than
investing in others while you'replaying football.
I believe you both interned and actually did work for Rodger.
What? What did you learn from him?
Well, I learned that some peopletalk about culture, some people
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live culture. Rodger Startback is a person
that lives culture. Also, his organization
personifies greatness and ethical caring, sharing.
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That's that's just the way everybody operated within that
organization. Now granted, there are some that
probably didn't do everything that the Roger Staubach way
because everybody wants to put their thumbprints on certain
things and they and they may have the right to do that.
But he was doing it right at thetop.
(06:01):
At the top, yeah. At the top, he got it right and
it trickled his way now and that's why he was so respected
in the in the marketplace and and did such a great job.
So you've obviously had the chance to start several
companies. Tell about you know the the
(06:22):
Cliff notes of each of your companies.
OK, E Smith Legacy is a full service real estate development
company and we truly focus on onretail, multifamily and
hospitality. We, we go find a location in
let's just say a trade area thatwe're willing to work in and
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that may have some services there, but may need some
additional services. We occupied some land, then
we'll come in and get it obviously entitled.
We'll take it through this entire process and then we'll
start to do development. Once we have tenants lined up
for the property. That's the development business
and we're we we we'll collect a fee, then we'll collect the
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promote on the backside with theother people money.
OPAOPM oh, or what they say, areyou down with OPP?
This is OPM other people money. And so that's the development
business. Then I have E Smith Realty
Partners, which is a servicing business that's very similar to
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the Starbuck company. We represent tenants across the
country. And then there's EJ Smith
construction. We are general contractors in
the sense of a word. We focus on of concrete
placement, placement, finishing work.
We we're in a space of commercial construction as well
as civil construction. And then I have Provo.
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I want to change the world of authentication.
I honestly believe that there are folks out there that are
spending significant capital on what they perceive to be real
sports memorabilia merchandise and the tools that they
currently have right now to me are way outdated.
I think technology has caught upto the point where we're able to
put smart tags on items and add statistical data, add add video
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data, including the point of when the item itself was
authenticated and matter of factautographed if you will.
And so you have. Your first hand experience?
Yes, I do that. Understanding the importance of
actually, you know, having the autographs.
Without a doubt, without a doubt.
If someone's going to go out exactly someone's going to go
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out and pay, pay. Matter of fact, I saw something
on Facebook at each time I had my autograph and it was on a
helmet. And I looked at the autograph
and he's like, my son drew it. So and I'm like, this is not my
signature. And and so I had to reply back
to it like this is not my signature.
Please don't buy. It But how much of a challenge
is access to capital? You know when you don't have a
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true track record, access to capital is extremely tough
because you haven't proven yourself, if you will, in the in
the marketplace. And even the wealthy man like
yourself when you get into 10s of millions of dollars, like
money can only go so far and youwant to as you said, OPM right
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other. People, that's one thing I've
learned over the over the last 23 years, 24 years if you will,
OPM people use OPM money. And at the end of the day,
whether it's a real estate transaction or you go talk to a
venture capitalist that believesin the Provo platform and what
it's all about, the opportunity that lies there.
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If the space is big enough for them and they trust who you are
and the team that you actually have that's working, that can
execute against that space, thenpeople invest in you.
But it's always a challenge. Sometimes you go to and what I
found is you go to people, they say, well, you're thinking too
small, then you go to others, they say you thinking too big.
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So you, you got to find the right one that understands that,
that you know your space very well, you're focused, you
committed and you can execute against your game plan and, and
bring this opportunity to the market, whether it's in real
estate or whether it's in technology, either way it goes,
it's the same philosophy. What do you think you personally
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have the most room for growth inwhen it comes to your own just
professional development business wise?
Oh, I have so much room for growth, whether it's in the
areas of truly understanding every aspect of my business.
That's always been a goal, just like I did in football,
understanding when our quarterback should be checking
out of a run play and going to apass play and perhaps what pass
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play he should be going to and understanding when we should be
checking out of a pass play and running the ball and what run
play we should be running. So reading those kind of things
and understanding our offenses, to me is like understanding
business from business one O 1 to to the highest level of
business. And and then it becomes how you
interact with people, how you make people feel when you're
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trying to work with them. And not only that, but when
you're, when you have a a directive and you have to
execute against that directive and how well you execute against
it, it becomes performance then.I want to take you back to when
you were growing up. Your father drove a bus for the
city. Your mom was a document clerk
who lived in the projects in Pensacola, FL.
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How aware were you of how littlemoney your family had when you
were growing up? I.
Wasn't that aware at all, to be honest with you, because how can
you be aware of something when you never been exposed to the
other? Your experience in life is only
limited to your knowledge base and my knowledge base right
there. I felt like I had the world.
I was comfortable with that. And then Charlie Edgar blew that
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smoke, blew it wide open. And and by doing such it really
elevated my mind to the possibilities.
And that being your your coach. My coach when I was 12 years old
when I stayed over his house andtheir house was 3600 square feet
and I thought it was a pretty good big house at that time.
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I got a chance to see how otherslived and and how we lived.
There was nothing wrong with theway we live outside of not
knowing that there was somethingdifferent.
But that change that changed my mom and dad and was able to move
us out and my grandfather was very instrumental in helping us
do such and we moved into our own home.
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So, but seeing that and realizing that that too is
attainable gave me few to want to go and do good.
And I think that's the problem with some of our kids right now.
They're limited in their thinking because they're not
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exposed to really what the possibilities are.
I always often say that people in the urban neighborhoods,
they're not looking for a handout, they're looking for a
hand up. They want somebody to give them
an opportunity so they can go and prove themselves.
And if they do that, they're willing to earn it.
They're willing to, to go out there and fight and, and do what
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they need to do to earn the right to, to, to earn that
opportunity. But if you tell them no, you
can't, you only can go so far. Frustration sets in.
You lived in a 2 bedroom home with your parents, your three
brothers, your two sisters. I'd imagine actually it.
Was a three bedroom home, 3 bedrooms they had their own room
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and then my three brothers and I, we all slept in the same room
that. Was nice.
What do you think, though, having gone through the kind of
tough times growing up taught you about fiscal responsibility?
You know, the one thing that that we didn't really talk about
was financial literacy at that time because we had so little.
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But my grandfather always told me to save my money, but he only
was limited in his capacity because the dollars that I saw
was significant capital. But in this world that we call
the financial world, you have tohave a minimum of $50,000 to
invest in anything just about. And so not having the ability to
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sit around the room and, and have dialogue about how you save
money, what you invest in, and all those kind of things was
something that was not readily available in my household.
I did not get exposed to that until I became a Dallas Cowboy
and I got my first check. Wow.
Then I'm sitting here talking with my financial advisors and
they're talking to me about a balanced asset allocation.
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What the heck that really means?Well, that means we're going to
put some of your money in bonds,we're going to put some of your
money in stocks, and we're goingto do this and we're going to
put some of your money in alternative investments.
What the heck is an alternative investment?
OK, It's a little bit more riskier than stocks and bonds,
OK? Real estate, venture capital
kind of stuff, etcetera, etcetera.
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That's really what it truly meant.
And understanding what that situation was all about helped
me understand truly that it's not all about how hard you work.
Sometimes it's about how smart you work and and at the end of
the day, your money can truly work as hard as you can and work
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even smarter than you can in some cases.
Why did you used to turn your shirt and pants inside out?
Because my mom's we used to playfootball after we get out of
school and I used to come home my clothes dirty and my mom said
I bet I ever do that again. So I figured I would get smart,
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turn the jeans pants inside out,turn the clothes inside out,
then turn them inside out beforeI went back home and everything
looked like it was spreading home.
You ever? Get caught.
I'm sure she do knew exactly what was happening.
I mean, we couldn't afford to have replacement stuff and I'm
not here damaging the items. Why'd your dad not want you to
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play football? I think my father didn't want me
to play football because he knewhow physically demanding the
sport really was on the body. My father sustained a knee
injury. And at the time, I mean before
he sustained his knee injury, I was told and people often times
tells me this, he was the best running back in the city of
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Pensacola. And so and to this day, that
same knee which he just had replaced, he had four knee
replacement surgery about about two months ago in June had was
bothering him. And so now he has a new knee and
he's moving on with his life now.
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But I think that experience thathe had, he didn't want none of
his kids to go through it. And so fortunately, my mom
wanted us to have a complete experience.
How can you deter somebody from their passion, right?
And so at the end of the day, itworked out.
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What? It's surprising because it's
usually the other way around. It's usually the mom saying no,
no, no, we don't want. My mom loved football.
My mom loved football more than I did.
My mom was a football fanatic. She loved the sport of football
and and my mom probably believedthat her son could do anything
in football. Really.
(17:40):
Yes. So when you're you and your dad
are awaiting your, you know, certain election into the Pro
Football Hall of Fame, what doeshe say to you in a private
moment? In a private moment, my father
tells me, he said, son, you're, you're doing the things that I
wanted to do, He said, you're living my dream.
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And, and that's the really one of the first times that he truly
opened up like that. And it was kind of cool to see,
but it was it was heartfelt because I knew that he had
played the sport and it had to be hard on him to watch his son
go out and become that individual that he really wanted
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to become. And so he probably looked back
over his life. I can only imagine he probably
looking over his life, thinking about what it, what his life
could have been. I was just hoping, hoping that
he's proud that I was able to pick up the mantle where he left
off at and cared further and, and, and do the things and, and
I think the Hall of Fame solidified that for him.
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When you spoke about that conversation a little in your,
you know, Hall, Hall of Fame acceptance speech, but you know,
it got to you then and you can even see now talking to you it
touches. You.
Yeah, it does. What is it about that?
Because the because the human spirit itself is such a powerful
thing and I am the descendant ofmy father.
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My father was given a considerable amount of talent
and so was I. And I'm just thankful that I
didn't squander it and, and was able to, to maximize it to it to
its fullest. And I'm still trying to maximize
it to this day. Because the things that my
father did not have access to, Inow have access to.
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The things that I may not have access to, I'm hoping that my
kids will have access to in the future and so forth.
That I think that's the evolution of, of a, of a, of a,
of a people. That's the evolution of a
country. If you're not making it better,
you're making it worse. How true is it that when you
were growing up and playing sports that your mom would
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sometimes have to bring your birth certificate because people
wouldn't believe that you were the same age as their kids?
Yeah, that's very true because Iwas a pretty thick, strong,
strong kid and and yes, I was a little bit bigger than than than
most and I was well coordinated.I was extremely coordinated.
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I mean, you tell me somebody I can throw a football.
I probably could have got into the the punt kicking, pass, the
pass kicking, punt contest and done very well because I could
throw a football at a young age 4550 yards.
Well, yeah, I mean, I could sling it and I could run, I
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could catch. I could catch with one hand.
I knew how to tackle. I was real aggressive.
I was a real aggressive footballplayer and and I knew what to do
with the football. Once I got in my hand it you did
not have to tell me what to do with it.
You get it put in my hand. I knew what to do with it.
It it came so natural and you could see the instincts
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instantly. And I mean, it wasn't just
limited to football. Not either because I I think you
were leading the county in scoring in basketball in your
8th grade year, yet you end up stopping playing to run track
because it could help you betterin footballs.
Yeah, most definitely. I mean, I would like you said I
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I did lead the county in in basketball.
I was pretty decent. I really was.
I was pretty decent. Of course I was.
I could jump out the roof. I could almost dunk a football,
a basketball in the eighth grade.
So. But once I got the high school.
You aren't even 510. I was about 5-9 and 1/2 in the
eighth grade. I remember being measured at 5/9
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and 1/2 in the eighth grade, andI haven't grown since.
So I grew early in stock. Everybody else kept growing and
so, but I remember when I got tohigh school, I was going to go
out for basketball and and coachNorm Ross told me, he said,
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listen son, I've seen you play football.
He said you probably would have a better chance of going places
in football than than basketball.
He said, 'cause I made the varsity squad.
He said now you can you, you made the squad, but I'm not
going to play you that much 'cause I don't want you to get
hurt on my watch, he says. So I recommend you go on the
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track, work with your speed, do the things that are
complementary to football. And I did do that, but I yearned
to play basketball. The Cowboy scout that was
instrumental in drafting you wrote in his report that you
would someday make Cowboys fans forget about the Hall of Famer
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Tony Dorsett, who used to run for them.
And then, you know, draft day comes and you're, you know,
expected to go very high, tell about what happens and then the
call you get from the coach, Jimmy Johnson.
Well, you know, every player comes out and there's these
experts that have their mock drafts and, and I was projected
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to go in the top 10. And so looking at the top ten at
that time, I thought I had a chance to go to Tampa Bay, which
was obviously like only 2 1/2 oran hour and a half from
Gainesville, which made sense tome.
I thought I had a chance if I didn't go there, I thought I
would have a chance to go to Seattle and play out in Seattle.
And so when the top five went byand Tampa Bay passed me over,
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then Seattle passed me over, then the top ten went by.
I did not know what was going tohappen.
I didn't know. I, I started to get very nervous
I because I, I wanted to go in the top 10.
Then I fell back to the 17th pick.
By that time the Cowboys made ita trade, made a trade.
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And I got a call from Jimmy and saying, we're going to, we're
going to draft you and how wouldyou like to wear a star on your
helmet? And it was like a dream come
true for me because I had loved the Cowboys when I was 7 years
old and I still love them to this day.
So no offense to Arizona, but being out there, the big wheels,
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they always treated me with respect.
They took care of me. I loved them and still do to
this day respect them wholeheartedly.
But coming back in Texas Stadiumand playing as a Arizona
Cardinal versus playing as a Dallas Cowboy absolutely broke
my heart. They shattered it and I knew
right then and there. And why did that affect you so
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much? Because for 13 years I had got
dressed in the home locker room.For 13 years I played on
Thanksgiving Day. For 13 years, I played for the
organization that I always wanted to play for, in the sport
that I absolutely loved. A sport that I believe chose me
and a sport that to me is everything that any person want
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to learn about life must play. Because football is one of those
life sports. It teaches you about sacrifices
and, and, and not only commitment and getting knocked
down and getting back up and having the confidence that you
need. It teaches you how to overcome
obstacles and challenges and injuries and so forth, how to
push through injuries and so on.And it's the agony of the, it's
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the thrill of, of the victory and the agony of defeat.
It's all of those things teach you how to be humble because you
have to forget about what you did the year before and you have
to start over every year to chase after that, that ring
every year. And you have to work hard.
Your work ethic has to be on point from start to finish
throughout the entire offseason.And you have to take care of
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your body. You have to get rest.
You have to make those personal sacrifices of some of the things
that you really want to do, you know that you cannot do because
you have to take care of this temple that God has blessed you
with to go out there and do yourjob to the best of your ability.
All of those things. And that day, getting dressed in
the visitors locker room, hardlyever been in the visitors locker
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room in 13 years. I'm walking into the visitors
locker room and I'm sitting in my locker and I'm thinking that
my team is on the other on the other side of the wall.
And I could not get over that. It broke my heart so much.
I cried for almost 30 minutes sitting in my locker while all
my other Cardinal teammates was walking around looking at me
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like, wow. I cried like a baby and went on
the field and got hurt and came back in.
And it was like, this just didn't work out well.
And so the only thing I could think of was honoring out my
commitment because my mom and, and, and many coaches finish
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what you start. And, and that's what I wanted to
do for the colonels. I wanted to finish what I
started with the Arizona Colonels.
I wanted to honor out my contract, which I did.
And when I'm what I'm thankful of is I gave them everything I
had left. And and what I'm proud of, the
fact is I ended my my last football season the same way I
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started it, 930 some odd yards to the number.
How, how bitter were you that the Cowboys released you before
that? I wasn't bitter at all.
You weren't? No, because I knew I, I, I knew
I wanted to continue to play. I felt like I still had
something to prove. I wasn't bitter that the fact
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that I knew Jerry had to make a tough decision.
They wanted to go younger with Roy Hambrick, who was stronger,
faster, bigger back than I was and, and I understood it, it was
just business at that time and so they had to make a business
decision. I wanted to take you to the
Super Bowls. Obviously, you have a few of
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those rings. Your first Super Bowl, though,
you apparently got more exhausted in the pregame warmups
than you have in any other game.Period.
Why? And I should say, you got more
exhaustion in the pregame warmups than you have actually
gotten exhausted any actual game.
(28:38):
In the actual game, you're, you're absolutely correct.
And, and I think it was all because of the anxiety and the
build up of planning your very first Super Bowl and the focus
of wanting to do your best in that particular game and not
being that guy to make the mistake that cost your team the
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victory. You stepped on that football
field. You step out there knowing that
in the next three to four hours,my life will be changed forever
one way or the other. Either I'm going to be on the
winning side and I'm going to beon the losing side.
I don't want to be on the losingside.
And so that anxiety itself was enough to wear me out before the
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game actually got started. There was a perceived Sports
Illustrated Super Bowl cover jinx.
Is it true that you had your agent actually reach out to
Sports Illustrated to try and get you off?
The cover, yes. Well, we played Buffalo in in,
down in Atlanta. Super Bowl 28.
(29:46):
Super Bowl 28, I never forget this.
This was on a Wednesday night. My agent Warner Scott and Larry
Lundy and I are riding around ina limousine and in Atlanta going
to various parties same night, Iprobably met Michael Jordan and
and Magic and Larry got in the car and said, big dog, we got
some good news for you. I'm like, really what?
(30:08):
What's the good news? I'm thinking like somebody want
me to endorse their project product.
And so I'm like getting all excited.
Guess who got the got the SportsIllustrated cover this week?
I'm like, who? They're like you.
I said, Oh no, I said, have y'all heard about the Sports
Illustrated jinx? I mean, like, that is a jinx.
Y'all going to put me on the Sports Illustrated cover before
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the Super Bowl? I'm like, that's crazy.
Y'all got to call them and get me off the cover.
Y'all got to say it's too late now, Too late.
And then Warner leaned over here, leaned over and said this
to me. He said, dawg, I suggest you
change your attitude. I looked him square dead, and I
said, you know what, you're right.
I said I don't care about no jinx.
I'm going to go out here and I'mgoing to do my thing regardless.
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So Super Bowl 28 Bills are aheadof the Cowboys, 13 to 6.
It's halftime and your Hall of Fame wide receiver Michael Irvin
storms in. And what does he scream at
halftime? Man, I don't Michael screaming
all the time. So it's kind of hard to remember
what exactly Michael was saying.But but I do know this much.
We coming off, we coming off thefield and there's a somber
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moment. Michael's saying we got to get
him back. We got to get in the second-half
for sure. And and Jimmy and North, then
they come at me. They come to me two different
times. And Jimmy says we're going to
run the football in the second-half.
Then N comes to him and says getready because we're going to run
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the football in the second-half.And and my office, I can see my
office of lineman getting geekedup.
Yeah, yeah. Because they wanted to run the
rock. So the second-half we come out,
the Bills made the fatal mistake.
They turned the football over intheir first possession and what
made it worse, James Washington picked it up and ran it back for
a touchdown to tie the score up.Then they kicked off.
(32:00):
So our defense is all jacked up.They go 123 and out and punt the
ball to us and we ran the same play six straight times and then
we threw a pass in the flat thatwas incomplete.
Then we ran on the 8th play of that drive, ran power right.
(32:20):
I break a tackle and I go for 20yards for a touchdown.
Game over. The Bills don't know what hit
them. You can see the life.
Just walk, just leave. And you see it in the highlight
tape on the sideline when their coach is cussing them out left
and right from sun up to sundown.
You got to strike that son of a PA, PA, PA just going off on
(32:44):
them. I mean, and they sitting around
like what just happened and we just took control of the game.
The 90 the 93 season finale Cowboys and Giants NFC East
titles on the line. The, you know, winner of that
game gets home field advantage in the playoffs.
Take me to that defining moment of your career.
(33:07):
You know, I think every player has a defining moment in their
career and that right there was the one for me because there was
so much at stake. That also was the year that I
missed the first two games of the season and.
You still win the rushing title.Yeah, yeah.
We as Richard Al Ripple used to tell me it's not where you
(33:28):
start, it's where you finish. And every week he used to just
say, I used to look at the statsand like, man, I'm behind by 200
yards. He said just keep chip, chip,
chip chipping away. He would say that every week
just keep chip, chip chipping away.
Then finally in in Week 17, we play in New York and New York
and everything is on the line. We got to win this game to
secure home field advantage. And not only that, but when the
(33:49):
NFCE side right and we playing in New York on the roll, cold
day and we having a a good start.
We're on a roll. I take a hand off a inside trap
play, break it out to the right side, giant side and I'm gone.
It's about about 40 yards later,50 yards later, Greg Jackson,
(34:10):
whom I played against in collegeat LSU, comes up to me on the
inside, rides me to the ground, hit the ground, funny clavicle
pops out of my AC area. And so now I have AAC
separation, not knowing what it was, but I knew it was, it was.
It felt pretty bad. And I come off the field, they
(34:32):
do their analysis. They take me to the locker room,
analyze my shoulder grade. They call it a grade 2
separation. Probably was a grade 3 because I
could bounce my clavicle up and down with my hand.
It sounds fun. Yeah, it wasn't fun at all.
And so mentally I know what's atstake.
(34:54):
And when you see the doctors andstaff go over to a corner and
huddle up in the corner and havea private conversation while you
laying there, you know something's not right.
Yeah, so, but Kevin, Kevin O'Neill comes back and and he
says we need you in this game. And I'm like, I know they gave
(35:17):
me some some stuff for the pain.I think it would may have been a
Vicodin at the time. They cut, they put two knee pads
together, cut a hole, made a doughnut of it, doughnut out of
it, laid it on my shoulder, strapped it to my shoulder to
give me a little extra pad in them on my shoulder pads.
And I trust that that was all I could do.
I wasn't going to damage it any further.
(35:39):
And N said we going to probably try to use you as a decoy.
I'm like, OK, Michael, say I need you to stay in the game.
Just act like you're going to run the football so they can
just line up. Michael Irving.
Irving and so went back there thinking that I'm going to be a
decoy for a whole half. Something changed.
(36:02):
The giants start coming back. The game get very interesting
and they start calling my numberand and I'm like saying, OK,
here we go. And the first time I hit the
ground, I can hear my hear my chest just cracking sound like
knuckles popping. Pain is shooting, radiating.
(36:27):
And I'm just saying, Oh my gosh.But I can't come out.
I can't come out. I got to stay in the game.
I got to stay in the game for the whole third and fourth
quarter, including the overtime.And I just kept running, just
kept running, just kept running.And and that's all I could ever
think about. Everything got quiet.
(36:48):
I was in my own zone. I was in my own happy place, if
you will, and that's how I was able to get through the game.
Not only that, but my teammates was encouraging me.
And and I kept coming back to the huddle, tears running out my
eyes, Troy looking at me saying,you all right?
Yeah, just call to play. Just call to play.
(37:10):
And it was a wrong play. I'm like, OK.
And he just kept saying he hanging there, man Hanging
there. To to what extent on the team's
flight home you were playing in New York flight back to Dallas,
Did the team actually consider stopping in a random city to get
you to the hospital sooner? Yeah, because after the game,
(37:32):
I'm, I'm so thankful that we wonthe game.
I don't even recall seeing the kick the field go go between the
uprights because I was in so much pain.
So I went and got on the bus andthen on the ride, on the plane
ride back, the pain was so intense because the air,
altitude and everything else, I was trying to knock my shoulder
out of place up against the wallbecause it was hurting so bad.
(37:54):
And they came, they held me down.
I think the doc may have given me a shot and I went back out.
Then I woke up again, pow, banging it up against the
window, screaming, it was hurting.
And Kevin O'Neill said, hey, man, we may have to land this
plane in Memphis to get you to ahospital.
I'm like, no, just get me back to Dallas.
(38:15):
I said if I'm going to die, I want to die in Dallas.
Tell about when you really got injured on the Bears turf.
You lost all the feeling on yourleft side and you thought your
career. I thought my career was over.
I mean, injuries do come and andI never thought I would get
injured faking like I had a football.
(38:38):
And so we had to play down on the goal line where I tried to
act like I had the ball and I was diving over the top and I
came down awkwardly on my shoulder.
Pinch, pinch made a nerve in my back and it didn't feel good.
And, and I lost the feeling on on the side, on my I want to
stay on my left side. And they carted me off and, and
(39:05):
I was and all I could see was the moon.
And so coming off the field and going in into the stadium,
underneath the stadium, and everybody's circling around you
and talking and you can't see nothing.
But all you can do is move your eyes left and right.
Can't move your head. And, and all of a sudden, Walter
Payton shows up right over my head, whispering in my ear,
(39:25):
you're going to be OK. You're going to be OK Don't
worry about it. You're going to be OK.
Kissing me on the forehead, talking to Rich, talking to
everybody in there. I didn't even know he was in the
stands at the time. And, and so it, it, it, it, it
comforted me for the moment, butmy idol was standing right over
me. It was a great thing to know
(39:46):
that he was there. And, and so they whisked me off
to the hospital. And I recall hearing him saying
to Rich, here's my number. If he needs anything, call me,
just give me an update. And, and, and that was that.
And so it was cool just to have him there.
(40:06):
But moments like that are rare. Moments for injuries will occur,
but be injured and to have one of your idols actually come down
and see on you, check on you wasphenomenal.
You you first met Walter Payton at a 95 awards ceremony and he
made a point of coming over and sitting next to you.
What do you recall from what youguys talked about?
(40:28):
We we talked about everything under the sun.
We talked about the game of football, we talked about his
career, we talked about his workethic, we talked about his
eating habits, we talked about his recovery habits.
We talked about transitioning from the game business and all
those things. We talked about family, we
talked about not losing yourself.
We talked about all of those things.
(40:49):
And it seemed like a whole day, but it was probably a matter of
an hour. But having a conversation with
someone that you look up to for so looked up to for so long and
to have that insight from someone that's was the ultimate
or the consummate professional it.
Was cool. His nickname was Sweetness and
you actually. I had sweetness on my Letterman
(41:12):
jacket in high school. High school, right?
I mean, you really looked up to him growing up.
What did he ask you to do with his?
Son, you know, during, during the time when he, he, he got
ill, I'd never at that point in time in my life, I'd never seen
a person with so much strength to face his situation the way he
(41:33):
did there he was a man that was actually dying encouraging me
and, and in return, I mean, basically I had to ask the
question, is there is anything Icould do?
And he said, no, he said, I'm good.
He said, I'm at peace with whereI'm at.
(41:55):
He said, but every now and then just reach out to my son Jerry
to make sure that he's OK, stay in touch with him and just be
there for him if he needs you. And that was it.
And I was like, that's not a problem.
I would do that. And you know, but the
encouraging part was to watch a man who had played the same
(42:19):
sport that I played, same position, done the things that
I've done and watch him face death the way he did with his
attitude was incredible. But it was it was heart
wrenching too, because as a football player, you want your
idol to be there someday. If you do something very, very
(42:40):
special, if you surpass him in anything, you want to celebrate
it with him. And and that that opportunity
never happened, but I had the opportunity of celebrating it
with his family. And that means just as much.
He died at 45 years old. Then a few days after that, the
Cowboys are playing the Vikings.And you said that game that
(43:06):
night was unlike anything you'veever experienced before,
including the three Super Bowl victories.
Because what I felt his spirit that night and I said, you know
what? Tonight I want to dedicate this
night to him. I want to go out and I wanted to
be the best night I've ever had in my professional career.
I wanted to go out and rush for over 275 yards and break his
(43:28):
single season rushing record. That's what I wanted to do.
And man, I was on a mission. I was on my way until I broke my
hand in the second quarter. And but that night was full of
emotions because I wanted it forhim.
I wanted to do it for him. I wanted to say this night, this
(43:51):
performance was dedicated to him.
And it's still, I mean, it stillgets you a little emotional even
talking about to this day. He he mean.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, he did.
I mean, he he was a he, he was aa great man.
And and I just love the way he handled himself on the football
(44:12):
field, handed himself off the football field.
Even some of the referees that Ijoke around with, they say you,
you, I remind them of him because I joke with him just the
way he used to. And I didn't even know he used
to joke with them. But but that's, you know, that's
the ultimate compliment. When, when, when someone says
that you remind them of someone that you looked up to as a
(44:34):
athlete. That's that's kind of cool.
Booze, drugs, girls, the you know, the kind of the excesses
of the Cowboys of the 90s. His stories have become that of
legend. How hard was it to avoid getting
caught up in all of that excess?You know, I could point to a
(44:57):
couple of occasions where I learned very valuable lessons.
One of those occasions that happened in college when I got
suspended with the some of my teammates for fighting and the
headlines read Smith and Smith and eleven others.
That's all they read. So I learned there that lesson
of being guilty by association and your name will make
(45:19):
headlines. Another one occurred in my
career as a Dallas Cowboy that night with James Washington my
rookie year here in Dallas. And obviously I just got drafted
probably 2 weeks prior to our first camp or 10 days prior to
(45:40):
our first camp. And James Washington, who
actually had a vehicle at the time, a white Mercedes, he and I
decided a bunch of us decided togo to a nightclub.
And James and I didn't know, didnot know the ways, but he only
knew one way that somebody told him.
And so we, we ride down the street called Harry Hines.
And Harry Hines is a street withsome night walkers hang out at.
(46:05):
And I didn't know this, I didn'tknow the severity of it until we
got pulled over by some Dallas cops and they got out, some of
them had the the guns drawn. They come in approaching the car
and and they shining lights and,and people don't and cops
probably they know what they're doing because they shining the
light to the point where it's inyour face where you can't see
(46:25):
nothing anyway. So if you disoriented and moving
around, I can see how they can put a cap in somebody easy.
But at the end of the day, we put our hands up out the window
and so forth and you know, they asking for driving license and
everything else, treating us like criminals, like we about to
do something wrong, all because we're in a Mercedes-Benz.
(46:45):
So we driving while black. Be honest with you.
And these are black cops. So it's not like these are white
cops. These are black cops.
So at the end of the day, they they, they, they, they tell us
guys, do y'all know what street y'all on?
I'm like, man, I'm new to this city.
How would I know this? And so he started to explain to
us what street we are on and andI'm like, OK, cool, James, James
(47:10):
driving. We got out, got where they let
us go. And right then and there, I said
I learned my second valuable lesson.
What'd you learn from it? I.
Learned never to ride with anybody, to drive yourself.
You can leave when you want to. You can go where you want.
Everything else. Then I learned a valuable
lesson. One night hanging out in Dallas
(47:32):
before we played the Giants one night I hung out with a friend
of mine. We hung out till about four
o'clock 5:00 in the morning. This is sort of the morning of a
game now. No, no, this is not the morning
of the game. This is the Friday night before
we departed to go to New York. So I get home about 5:00, we the
(47:55):
plane departs at 10. So I get about two or three
hours of sleep right and I'm wore out.
Well, the next day we playing and we jump on New York behind
and I'm running. I'm having a great game.
But in the first half, we we scored 30 some points on them in
(48:17):
the first half. And I'm having a good game.
But I'm in a huddle and I'm gasping for air.
I can't hardly breathe. My legs are just numb.
I turn them, turn the mic. I said, Mike, I can't feel my
legs. I can't feel my legs.
And so after that game, New Yorkcomes back.
We barely wins the game. On the ride back.
I said right then and I said, you know what?
(48:38):
I can't do this no more. I cannot do this no more.
It's either the streets or it's my career.
Yeah. So I had to make a decision.
And I said, you know what, if I'm a party, I'm only going to
party. I'm going to party up to
Thursday if I if I want to, but I'm shutting it down.
I'm not doing these things no more than I said, you know what,
that's that. So you learn lessons along the
(49:00):
way and there are signs that you're going down the wrong path
and you try to correct those things before they get too bad.
How out of control was it thoughas a team?
The Parting in the 90s. I wouldn't say that depends on
your your definition of out of control.
Sure, I. Mean.
(49:23):
OK, by normal people standard. Well, what?
What? You don't know what normal
people are doing now. You just don't know.
I mean, you, they just not caught.
They just not publicized the wayit is I mean.
OK, compared to what your life is now.
Oh, I'm married now. I got 55 kids now I have deeper,
(49:43):
deeper responsibilities. At the time I was single.
So to each their own. As long as you.
I mean, you're a single man and there are single people out
there that enjoy being single. And so at the end of the day, I
mean, you just have to learn howto do things in moderation and,
(50:04):
and that's what I learned as well.
So once and for all, what? What was the White House?
I can't talk about the White House.
It's not my place to talk about the White House.
I mean the White House is where George Bush was at along with
Bill Clinton and and so we visited the White House 3 times.
So this wasn't a place the Cowboys rented for the party.
(50:25):
I don't know what you're talkingabout.
Here here to to what extent do you think the like excessiveness
played a role in kind of the thedownfall of the team?
You know what I think excessiveness plays a role in
everybody's career, in everybody's life.
Success sometimes make you thinkthat you were invincible and
that you could do almost anything.
(50:47):
But the the true strength of having success is being able to
control it and not allow it to take control of you.
Not be arrogant with it or to the point where you allow people
to embrace you the way that theywant to embrace you and you're
OK with it because you know who you are and what you've been
(51:08):
able to accomplish. Being self confident, not self
arrogant in that way, in that regard.
And that's to me, I see that happens happening quite a bit in
just about anybody, whether you're in business, sometimes
you get business and now you toobig for your bridges.
Same thing in sport, same thing in life.
(51:28):
I mean, people get to certain levels and they think that they
have arrived and so they forget the journey and the process that
they'd gone through to get to that point.
That's something that I tried not to ever forget, is what it
takes to not only be where I'm at, but sustain where I'm at and
take it even further. And I think that keeps things in
(51:50):
perspective. How concerned are you by the the
potential long term side effectsthat having played for so long
will? Have on you.
I am concerned. I am very concerned and here's
why. No man in the National Football
League has cared the football more than I have, which means
I've been hit more times than anybody in the National Football
(52:11):
League. No one is rushing more yardage
than I have. So that meant that I ran a long
ways. But just the hits themselves
when I think about guys like Tony Dorsett and Rayfield Wright
and many others right now that are dealing with those head
trauma issues, yes, it is a concern.
I'm only 45 right now and, and when I think about these guys,
(52:35):
these guys in the mid to late 50s and so 10 more years talk to
me. It's not that far away.
It's not that far away, but 10 more years.
Talk to me. Let's see how how I'm doing
then. And, and, and, and that to me
probably say a lot, but what I'mdoing right now, I'm on the
preventative side. I'm taking the initiative to to
(52:57):
establish a baseline and monitormyself probably every year or
every two years if I have to, orall according to what the
doctor's request. And so far I'm doing OK.
And you have gout, which is severe arthritis.
How does that affect you? It only effects when I have a
flare. My uric acid levels were
(53:19):
extremely high therefore whenever I had AI had a flare up
and it attacked some of my joints and it it attacked my big
toe and my right right point finger.
But long as I keep my uric acid levels in in check I think I
will be OK with gout. I can manage that piece.
Do you any other effects currently?
No, no. I mean, my neck is jacked up.
(53:43):
My head is always tethered to the right or to the left, which
I can't tell you which way. When I'm looking in the mirror,
it's like like it's to the right, maybe it's to the left,
but I don't know. But at the end of the day.
That's from the plant. Yeah, well, it is from the from
the from the hits to the head and my neck is jacked up.
And so that part, outside of that, it doesn't really give me
a whole lot of issues. But outside of that I'm doing
(54:06):
pretty good. I can't comply.
The NFL that has settled with the retired players for $765
million. Money that's intended What?
That's nothing, right? The money that's intended it's.
Only like $20,000 a player, $20,000 a player, that's
nothing. I mean no offense to somebody
that think $20 a $1000 a lot, but $20,000 you just go to the
(54:29):
hospital one time, it's gone. That's how quick $20,000 can go.
Heck, I got $15,000 worth of worth of repairment that I got
to do to my house, $20,000 gone quick, quick.
And what the issues that we all going to be dealing with, it's
going to be worth, it's going tocost a lot more than $20,000.
(54:49):
That'll do it for this week. To see video clips of my time
with Smith or other football legends, head to
youtube.com/graham Bensinger. And if you enjoyed this podcast,
please leave us a rating and review.
Thanks again for listening.
This week, a name synonymous with the Dallas Cowboys, Emmett
Smith. I played for the organization
that I always wanted to play forin the sport that I absolutely
loved. The NF LS all time leading
rusher says nothing could keep him from football as a kid,
including his father. Why'd your dad not want you to
play football? He knew how physically demanding
(00:21):
the sport really was on the body.
The Hall of Famer reflects on the most heart wrenching day of
his iconic career. It broke my heart so much I
cried for almost 30 minutes intomy locker.
And an unforgettable moment withhis football idol.
All of a sudden, Walter Payton shows up right over my head,
whispering in my ear. You going to be OK?
(00:42):
We begin with Smith opening up about how his post football plan
has led him to a successful career off the field.
I wanted to start by, you know, talking business.
Obviously that's where your yourhead's at now and that that's
what's consuming a large majority of your time.
(01:02):
But I want to take you back to when you were really young, you
go to your Pop Warner coach's house and you see blueprints on
the table. How did that impact you?
I think it has impacted me in a way that that has opened my mind
truly. And this is what he did for me.
I mean, he opened my mind to truly what the life could be
(01:24):
like without football. And so I started thinking about,
OK, in my mind, I already said to myself, football is going to
end at some point. All I wanted to go on and do the
things that I've been able to dothus far through my sport and
and I wanted to transition that into something bigger.
Not knowing what bigger was until I met Staubach, Not
(01:48):
knowing what bigger was until I met Irvin Johnson.
Not knowing what bigger was tillI met other former athletes who
had transitioned into Michael Jordan and others who has
transitioned over into the worldof entrepreneurship as well as
free enterprise. When I saw that then I
understood what that I had the capabilities of doing the same.
(02:09):
Thing and you had some businesses during your playing
career but it's really taken offpost career.
I wonder how does your enthusiasm for business compared
to the enthusiasm that you had for playing football?
You know, I would say they probably one in the same in the
context of excitement, the thrill of of the chase and and
(02:37):
the agony of defeat. So it's never good to lose an
opportunity, and it's never goodto disappoint someone that
you're working with either. So just like in football, it is
you letting down the fans and not only letting down the fans,
but letting down your teammates and your organization.
In business, you're hurting families, you're hurting other
(02:59):
businesses. So it's a lot more real.
You know, fans, on the other hand, yeah, they feelings get
hurt. But in business, livelihoods can
change for the better or for theworse.
So it's a little different, but they both kind of kind of
parallel each other. You mentioned Rodger Staubach,
you know, you also mentioned Dervin Johnson or or Magic, and
(03:22):
he's obviously the most notable example of business success, at
least, you know, publicly among professional athletes.
But Staubach, I mean, created a massive business empire for
himself, sold it not too long ago for hundreds of millions of
dollars. Former Cowboys quarterback.
(03:43):
Explain why you reached out to him early on in your career.
As you grew up, you encounter people that give you tad bits of
wisdom along the way. And along the way I've learned.
And this came when I'll be when I, when I was a professional
athlete through a marketing guy,Warner Scott at the time, he
(04:04):
said always surround yourself with people who are smarter than
you, but most importantly, you better learn from them along the
way. And so learning from others
along the way and having a connection with Roger Staubach
and having a connection with theIrvin Johnson.
But most importantly, having a guy that I was working for like
a Jerry Jones, who were, who wasable to allow me to sit down in
(04:27):
his office and listen at some ofhis business conversation
conversations was was paramount for me.
And, you know, having this opportunity to have a dialogue
with Roger and understand what he did actually just said to me,
yes, I can do it. The question becomes not how you
(04:51):
go about well, it it it's a how and a win.
How will you go about doing it and when you do it?
Investing in yourself after football is more critical than
investing in others while you'replaying football.
I believe you both interned and actually did work for Rodger.
What? What did you learn from him?
Well, I learned that some peopletalk about culture, some people
(05:18):
live culture. Rodger Startback is a person
that lives culture. Also, his organization
personifies greatness and ethical caring, sharing.
(05:40):
That's that's just the way everybody operated within that
organization. Now granted, there are some that
probably didn't do everything that the Roger Staubach way
because everybody wants to put their thumbprints on certain
things and they and they may have the right to do that.
But he was doing it right at thetop.
(06:01):
At the top, yeah. At the top, he got it right and
it trickled his way now and that's why he was so respected
in the in the marketplace and and did such a great job.
So you've obviously had the chance to start several
companies. Tell about you know the the
(06:22):
Cliff notes of each of your companies.
OK, E Smith Legacy is a full service real estate development
company and we truly focus on onretail, multifamily and
hospitality. We, we go find a location in
let's just say a trade area thatwe're willing to work in and
(06:43):
that may have some services there, but may need some
additional services. We occupied some land, then
we'll come in and get it obviously entitled.
We'll take it through this entire process and then we'll
start to do development. Once we have tenants lined up
for the property. That's the development business
and we're we we we'll collect a fee, then we'll collect the
(07:05):
promote on the backside with theother people money.
OPAOPM oh, or what they say, areyou down with OPP?
This is OPM other people money. And so that's the development
business. Then I have E Smith Realty
Partners, which is a servicing business that's very similar to
(07:25):
the Starbuck company. We represent tenants across the
country. And then there's EJ Smith
construction. We are general contractors in
the sense of a word. We focus on of concrete
placement, placement, finishing work.
We we're in a space of commercial construction as well
as civil construction. And then I have Provo.
(07:49):
I want to change the world of authentication.
I honestly believe that there are folks out there that are
spending significant capital on what they perceive to be real
sports memorabilia merchandise and the tools that they
currently have right now to me are way outdated.
I think technology has caught upto the point where we're able to
put smart tags on items and add statistical data, add add video
(08:15):
data, including the point of when the item itself was
authenticated and matter of factautographed if you will.
And so you have. Your first hand experience?
Yes, I do that. Understanding the importance of
actually, you know, having the autographs.
Without a doubt, without a doubt.
If someone's going to go out exactly someone's going to go
(08:36):
out and pay, pay. Matter of fact, I saw something
on Facebook at each time I had my autograph and it was on a
helmet. And I looked at the autograph
and he's like, my son drew it. So and I'm like, this is not my
signature. And and so I had to reply back
to it like this is not my signature.
Please don't buy. It But how much of a challenge
is access to capital? You know when you don't have a
(08:58):
true track record, access to capital is extremely tough
because you haven't proven yourself, if you will, in the in
the marketplace. And even the wealthy man like
yourself when you get into 10s of millions of dollars, like
money can only go so far and youwant to as you said, OPM right
(09:19):
other. People, that's one thing I've
learned over the over the last 23 years, 24 years if you will,
OPM people use OPM money. And at the end of the day,
whether it's a real estate transaction or you go talk to a
venture capitalist that believesin the Provo platform and what
it's all about, the opportunity that lies there.
(09:41):
If the space is big enough for them and they trust who you are
and the team that you actually have that's working, that can
execute against that space, thenpeople invest in you.
But it's always a challenge. Sometimes you go to and what I
found is you go to people, they say, well, you're thinking too
small, then you go to others, they say you thinking too big.
(10:02):
So you, you got to find the right one that understands that,
that you know your space very well, you're focused, you
committed and you can execute against your game plan and, and
bring this opportunity to the market, whether it's in real
estate or whether it's in technology, either way it goes,
it's the same philosophy. What do you think you personally
(10:25):
have the most room for growth inwhen it comes to your own just
professional development business wise?
Oh, I have so much room for growth, whether it's in the
areas of truly understanding every aspect of my business.
That's always been a goal, just like I did in football,
understanding when our quarterback should be checking
out of a run play and going to apass play and perhaps what pass
(10:47):
play he should be going to and understanding when we should be
checking out of a pass play and running the ball and what run
play we should be running. So reading those kind of things
and understanding our offenses, to me is like understanding
business from business one O 1 to to the highest level of
business. And and then it becomes how you
interact with people, how you make people feel when you're
(11:11):
trying to work with them. And not only that, but when
you're, when you have a a directive and you have to
execute against that directive and how well you execute against
it, it becomes performance then.I want to take you back to when
you were growing up. Your father drove a bus for the
city. Your mom was a document clerk
who lived in the projects in Pensacola, FL.
(11:34):
How aware were you of how littlemoney your family had when you
were growing up? I.
Wasn't that aware at all, to be honest with you, because how can
you be aware of something when you never been exposed to the
other? Your experience in life is only
limited to your knowledge base and my knowledge base right
there. I felt like I had the world.
I was comfortable with that. And then Charlie Edgar blew that
(11:55):
smoke, blew it wide open. And and by doing such it really
elevated my mind to the possibilities.
And that being your your coach. My coach when I was 12 years old
when I stayed over his house andtheir house was 3600 square feet
and I thought it was a pretty good big house at that time.
(12:16):
I got a chance to see how otherslived and and how we lived.
There was nothing wrong with theway we live outside of not
knowing that there was somethingdifferent.
But that change that changed my mom and dad and was able to move
us out and my grandfather was very instrumental in helping us
do such and we moved into our own home.
(12:37):
So, but seeing that and realizing that that too is
attainable gave me few to want to go and do good.
And I think that's the problem with some of our kids right now.
They're limited in their thinking because they're not
(12:58):
exposed to really what the possibilities are.
I always often say that people in the urban neighborhoods,
they're not looking for a handout, they're looking for a
hand up. They want somebody to give them
an opportunity so they can go and prove themselves.
And if they do that, they're willing to earn it.
They're willing to, to go out there and fight and, and do what
(13:20):
they need to do to earn the right to, to, to earn that
opportunity. But if you tell them no, you
can't, you only can go so far. Frustration sets in.
You lived in a 2 bedroom home with your parents, your three
brothers, your two sisters. I'd imagine actually it.
Was a three bedroom home, 3 bedrooms they had their own room
(13:41):
and then my three brothers and I, we all slept in the same room
that. Was nice.
What do you think, though, having gone through the kind of
tough times growing up taught you about fiscal responsibility?
You know, the one thing that that we didn't really talk about
was financial literacy at that time because we had so little.
(14:05):
But my grandfather always told me to save my money, but he only
was limited in his capacity because the dollars that I saw
was significant capital. But in this world that we call
the financial world, you have tohave a minimum of $50,000 to
invest in anything just about. And so not having the ability to
(14:29):
sit around the room and, and have dialogue about how you save
money, what you invest in, and all those kind of things was
something that was not readily available in my household.
I did not get exposed to that until I became a Dallas Cowboy
and I got my first check. Wow.
Then I'm sitting here talking with my financial advisors and
they're talking to me about a balanced asset allocation.
(14:52):
What the heck that really means?Well, that means we're going to
put some of your money in bonds,we're going to put some of your
money in stocks, and we're goingto do this and we're going to
put some of your money in alternative investments.
What the heck is an alternative investment?
OK, It's a little bit more riskier than stocks and bonds,
OK? Real estate, venture capital
kind of stuff, etcetera, etcetera.
(15:13):
That's really what it truly meant.
And understanding what that situation was all about helped
me understand truly that it's not all about how hard you work.
Sometimes it's about how smart you work and and at the end of
the day, your money can truly work as hard as you can and work
(15:34):
even smarter than you can in some cases.
Why did you used to turn your shirt and pants inside out?
Because my mom's we used to playfootball after we get out of
school and I used to come home my clothes dirty and my mom said
I bet I ever do that again. So I figured I would get smart,
(15:54):
turn the jeans pants inside out,turn the clothes inside out,
then turn them inside out beforeI went back home and everything
looked like it was spreading home.
You ever? Get caught.
I'm sure she do knew exactly what was happening.
I mean, we couldn't afford to have replacement stuff and I'm
not here damaging the items. Why'd your dad not want you to
(16:15):
play football? I think my father didn't want me
to play football because he knewhow physically demanding the
sport really was on the body. My father sustained a knee
injury. And at the time, I mean before
he sustained his knee injury, I was told and people often times
tells me this, he was the best running back in the city of
(16:37):
Pensacola. And so and to this day, that
same knee which he just had replaced, he had four knee
replacement surgery about about two months ago in June had was
bothering him. And so now he has a new knee and
he's moving on with his life now.
(16:57):
But I think that experience thathe had, he didn't want none of
his kids to go through it. And so fortunately, my mom
wanted us to have a complete experience.
How can you deter somebody from their passion, right?
And so at the end of the day, itworked out.
(17:20):
What? It's surprising because it's
usually the other way around. It's usually the mom saying no,
no, no, we don't want. My mom loved football.
My mom loved football more than I did.
My mom was a football fanatic. She loved the sport of football
and and my mom probably believedthat her son could do anything
in football. Really.
(17:40):
Yes. So when you're you and your dad
are awaiting your, you know, certain election into the Pro
Football Hall of Fame, what doeshe say to you in a private
moment? In a private moment, my father
tells me, he said, son, you're, you're doing the things that I
wanted to do, He said, you're living my dream.
(18:03):
And, and that's the really one of the first times that he truly
opened up like that. And it was kind of cool to see,
but it was it was heartfelt because I knew that he had
played the sport and it had to be hard on him to watch his son
go out and become that individual that he really wanted
(18:25):
to become. And so he probably looked back
over his life. I can only imagine he probably
looking over his life, thinking about what it, what his life
could have been. I was just hoping, hoping that
he's proud that I was able to pick up the mantle where he left
off at and cared further and, and, and do the things and, and
I think the Hall of Fame solidified that for him.
(18:47):
When you spoke about that conversation a little in your,
you know, Hall, Hall of Fame acceptance speech, but you know,
it got to you then and you can even see now talking to you it
touches. You.
Yeah, it does. What is it about that?
Because the because the human spirit itself is such a powerful
thing and I am the descendant ofmy father.
(19:11):
My father was given a considerable amount of talent
and so was I. And I'm just thankful that I
didn't squander it and, and was able to, to maximize it to it to
its fullest. And I'm still trying to maximize
it to this day. Because the things that my
father did not have access to, Inow have access to.
(19:33):
The things that I may not have access to, I'm hoping that my
kids will have access to in the future and so forth.
That I think that's the evolution of, of a, of a, of a,
of a people. That's the evolution of a
country. If you're not making it better,
you're making it worse. How true is it that when you
were growing up and playing sports that your mom would
(19:55):
sometimes have to bring your birth certificate because people
wouldn't believe that you were the same age as their kids?
Yeah, that's very true because Iwas a pretty thick, strong,
strong kid and and yes, I was a little bit bigger than than than
most and I was well coordinated.I was extremely coordinated.
(20:17):
I mean, you tell me somebody I can throw a football.
I probably could have got into the the punt kicking, pass, the
pass kicking, punt contest and done very well because I could
throw a football at a young age 4550 yards.
Well, yeah, I mean, I could sling it and I could run, I
(20:37):
could catch. I could catch with one hand.
I knew how to tackle. I was real aggressive.
I was a real aggressive footballplayer and and I knew what to do
with the football. Once I got in my hand it you did
not have to tell me what to do with it.
You get it put in my hand. I knew what to do with it.
It it came so natural and you could see the instincts
(21:00):
instantly. And I mean, it wasn't just
limited to football. Not either because I I think you
were leading the county in scoring in basketball in your
8th grade year, yet you end up stopping playing to run track
because it could help you betterin footballs.
Yeah, most definitely. I mean, I would like you said I
(21:23):
I did lead the county in in basketball.
I was pretty decent. I really was.
I was pretty decent. Of course I was.
I could jump out the roof. I could almost dunk a football,
a basketball in the eighth grade.
So. But once I got the high school.
You aren't even 510. I was about 5-9 and 1/2 in the
eighth grade. I remember being measured at 5/9
(21:45):
and 1/2 in the eighth grade, andI haven't grown since.
So I grew early in stock. Everybody else kept growing and
so, but I remember when I got tohigh school, I was going to go
out for basketball and and coachNorm Ross told me, he said,
(22:05):
listen son, I've seen you play football.
He said you probably would have a better chance of going places
in football than than basketball.
He said, 'cause I made the varsity squad.
He said now you can you, you made the squad, but I'm not
going to play you that much 'cause I don't want you to get
hurt on my watch, he says. So I recommend you go on the
(22:27):
track, work with your speed, do the things that are
complementary to football. And I did do that, but I yearned
to play basketball. The Cowboy scout that was
instrumental in drafting you wrote in his report that you
would someday make Cowboys fans forget about the Hall of Famer
(22:48):
Tony Dorsett, who used to run for them.
And then, you know, draft day comes and you're, you know,
expected to go very high, tell about what happens and then the
call you get from the coach, Jimmy Johnson.
Well, you know, every player comes out and there's these
experts that have their mock drafts and, and I was projected
(23:13):
to go in the top 10. And so looking at the top ten at
that time, I thought I had a chance to go to Tampa Bay, which
was obviously like only 2 1/2 oran hour and a half from
Gainesville, which made sense tome.
I thought I had a chance if I didn't go there, I thought I
would have a chance to go to Seattle and play out in Seattle.
And so when the top five went byand Tampa Bay passed me over,
(23:37):
then Seattle passed me over, then the top ten went by.
I did not know what was going tohappen.
I didn't know. I, I started to get very nervous
I because I, I wanted to go in the top 10.
Then I fell back to the 17th pick.
By that time the Cowboys made ita trade, made a trade.
(24:01):
And I got a call from Jimmy and saying, we're going to, we're
going to draft you and how wouldyou like to wear a star on your
helmet? And it was like a dream come
true for me because I had loved the Cowboys when I was 7 years
old and I still love them to this day.
So no offense to Arizona, but being out there, the big wheels,
(24:22):
they always treated me with respect.
They took care of me. I loved them and still do to
this day respect them wholeheartedly.
But coming back in Texas Stadiumand playing as a Arizona
Cardinal versus playing as a Dallas Cowboy absolutely broke
my heart. They shattered it and I knew
right then and there. And why did that affect you so
(24:44):
much? Because for 13 years I had got
dressed in the home locker room.For 13 years I played on
Thanksgiving Day. For 13 years, I played for the
organization that I always wanted to play for, in the sport
that I absolutely loved. A sport that I believe chose me
and a sport that to me is everything that any person want
(25:16):
to learn about life must play. Because football is one of those
life sports. It teaches you about sacrifices
and, and, and not only commitment and getting knocked
down and getting back up and having the confidence that you
need. It teaches you how to overcome
obstacles and challenges and injuries and so forth, how to
push through injuries and so on.And it's the agony of the, it's
(25:39):
the thrill of, of the victory and the agony of defeat.
It's all of those things teach you how to be humble because you
have to forget about what you did the year before and you have
to start over every year to chase after that, that ring
every year. And you have to work hard.
Your work ethic has to be on point from start to finish
throughout the entire offseason.And you have to take care of
(26:02):
your body. You have to get rest.
You have to make those personal sacrifices of some of the things
that you really want to do, you know that you cannot do because
you have to take care of this temple that God has blessed you
with to go out there and do yourjob to the best of your ability.
All of those things. And that day, getting dressed in
the visitors locker room, hardlyever been in the visitors locker
(26:26):
room in 13 years. I'm walking into the visitors
locker room and I'm sitting in my locker and I'm thinking that
my team is on the other on the other side of the wall.
And I could not get over that. It broke my heart so much.
I cried for almost 30 minutes sitting in my locker while all
my other Cardinal teammates was walking around looking at me
(26:48):
like, wow. I cried like a baby and went on
the field and got hurt and came back in.
And it was like, this just didn't work out well.
And so the only thing I could think of was honoring out my
commitment because my mom and, and, and many coaches finish
(27:12):
what you start. And, and that's what I wanted to
do for the colonels. I wanted to finish what I
started with the Arizona Colonels.
I wanted to honor out my contract, which I did.
And when I'm what I'm thankful of is I gave them everything I
had left. And and what I'm proud of, the
fact is I ended my my last football season the same way I
(27:35):
started it, 930 some odd yards to the number.
How, how bitter were you that the Cowboys released you before
that? I wasn't bitter at all.
You weren't? No, because I knew I, I, I knew
I wanted to continue to play. I felt like I still had
something to prove. I wasn't bitter that the fact
(27:56):
that I knew Jerry had to make a tough decision.
They wanted to go younger with Roy Hambrick, who was stronger,
faster, bigger back than I was and, and I understood it, it was
just business at that time and so they had to make a business
decision. I wanted to take you to the
Super Bowls. Obviously, you have a few of
(28:18):
those rings. Your first Super Bowl, though,
you apparently got more exhausted in the pregame warmups
than you have in any other game.Period.
Why? And I should say, you got more
exhaustion in the pregame warmups than you have actually
gotten exhausted any actual game.
(28:38):
In the actual game, you're, you're absolutely correct.
And, and I think it was all because of the anxiety and the
build up of planning your very first Super Bowl and the focus
of wanting to do your best in that particular game and not
being that guy to make the mistake that cost your team the
(29:02):
victory. You stepped on that football
field. You step out there knowing that
in the next three to four hours,my life will be changed forever
one way or the other. Either I'm going to be on the
winning side and I'm going to beon the losing side.
I don't want to be on the losingside.
And so that anxiety itself was enough to wear me out before the
(29:25):
game actually got started. There was a perceived Sports
Illustrated Super Bowl cover jinx.
Is it true that you had your agent actually reach out to
Sports Illustrated to try and get you off?
The cover, yes. Well, we played Buffalo in in,
down in Atlanta. Super Bowl 28.
(29:46):
Super Bowl 28, I never forget this.
This was on a Wednesday night. My agent Warner Scott and Larry
Lundy and I are riding around ina limousine and in Atlanta going
to various parties same night, Iprobably met Michael Jordan and
and Magic and Larry got in the car and said, big dog, we got
some good news for you. I'm like, really what?
(30:08):
What's the good news? I'm thinking like somebody want
me to endorse their project product.
And so I'm like getting all excited.
Guess who got the got the SportsIllustrated cover this week?
I'm like, who? They're like you.
I said, Oh no, I said, have y'all heard about the Sports
Illustrated jinx? I mean, like, that is a jinx.
Y'all going to put me on the Sports Illustrated cover before
(30:30):
the Super Bowl? I'm like, that's crazy.
Y'all got to call them and get me off the cover.
Y'all got to say it's too late now, Too late.
And then Warner leaned over here, leaned over and said this
to me. He said, dawg, I suggest you
change your attitude. I looked him square dead, and I
said, you know what, you're right.
I said I don't care about no jinx.
I'm going to go out here and I'mgoing to do my thing regardless.
(30:54):
So Super Bowl 28 Bills are aheadof the Cowboys, 13 to 6.
It's halftime and your Hall of Fame wide receiver Michael Irvin
storms in. And what does he scream at
halftime? Man, I don't Michael screaming
all the time. So it's kind of hard to remember
what exactly Michael was saying.But but I do know this much.
We coming off, we coming off thefield and there's a somber
(31:18):
moment. Michael's saying we got to get
him back. We got to get in the second-half
for sure. And and Jimmy and North, then
they come at me. They come to me two different
times. And Jimmy says we're going to
run the football in the second-half.
Then N comes to him and says getready because we're going to run
(31:39):
the football in the second-half.And and my office, I can see my
office of lineman getting geekedup.
Yeah, yeah. Because they wanted to run the
rock. So the second-half we come out,
the Bills made the fatal mistake.
They turned the football over intheir first possession and what
made it worse, James Washington picked it up and ran it back for
a touchdown to tie the score up.Then they kicked off.
(32:00):
So our defense is all jacked up.They go 123 and out and punt the
ball to us and we ran the same play six straight times and then
we threw a pass in the flat thatwas incomplete.
Then we ran on the 8th play of that drive, ran power right.
(32:20):
I break a tackle and I go for 20yards for a touchdown.
Game over. The Bills don't know what hit
them. You can see the life.
Just walk, just leave. And you see it in the highlight
tape on the sideline when their coach is cussing them out left
and right from sun up to sundown.
You got to strike that son of a PA, PA, PA just going off on
(32:44):
them. I mean, and they sitting around
like what just happened and we just took control of the game.
The 90 the 93 season finale Cowboys and Giants NFC East
titles on the line. The, you know, winner of that
game gets home field advantage in the playoffs.
Take me to that defining moment of your career.
(33:07):
You know, I think every player has a defining moment in their
career and that right there was the one for me because there was
so much at stake. That also was the year that I
missed the first two games of the season and.
You still win the rushing title.Yeah, yeah.
We as Richard Al Ripple used to tell me it's not where you
(33:28):
start, it's where you finish. And every week he used to just
say, I used to look at the statsand like, man, I'm behind by 200
yards. He said just keep chip, chip,
chip chipping away. He would say that every week
just keep chip, chip chipping away.
Then finally in in Week 17, we play in New York and New York
and everything is on the line. We got to win this game to
secure home field advantage. And not only that, but when the
(33:49):
NFCE side right and we playing in New York on the roll, cold
day and we having a a good start.
We're on a roll. I take a hand off a inside trap
play, break it out to the right side, giant side and I'm gone.
It's about about 40 yards later,50 yards later, Greg Jackson,
(34:10):
whom I played against in collegeat LSU, comes up to me on the
inside, rides me to the ground, hit the ground, funny clavicle
pops out of my AC area. And so now I have AAC
separation, not knowing what it was, but I knew it was, it was.
It felt pretty bad. And I come off the field, they
(34:32):
do their analysis. They take me to the locker room,
analyze my shoulder grade. They call it a grade 2
separation. Probably was a grade 3 because I
could bounce my clavicle up and down with my hand.
It sounds fun. Yeah, it wasn't fun at all.
And so mentally I know what's atstake.
(34:54):
And when you see the doctors andstaff go over to a corner and
huddle up in the corner and havea private conversation while you
laying there, you know something's not right.
Yeah, so, but Kevin, Kevin O'Neill comes back and and he
says we need you in this game. And I'm like, I know they gave
(35:17):
me some some stuff for the pain.I think it would may have been a
Vicodin at the time. They cut, they put two knee pads
together, cut a hole, made a doughnut of it, doughnut out of
it, laid it on my shoulder, strapped it to my shoulder to
give me a little extra pad in them on my shoulder pads.
And I trust that that was all I could do.
I wasn't going to damage it any further.
(35:39):
And N said we going to probably try to use you as a decoy.
I'm like, OK, Michael, say I need you to stay in the game.
Just act like you're going to run the football so they can
just line up. Michael Irving.
Irving and so went back there thinking that I'm going to be a
decoy for a whole half. Something changed.
(36:02):
The giants start coming back. The game get very interesting
and they start calling my numberand and I'm like saying, OK,
here we go. And the first time I hit the
ground, I can hear my hear my chest just cracking sound like
knuckles popping. Pain is shooting, radiating.
(36:27):
And I'm just saying, Oh my gosh.But I can't come out.
I can't come out. I got to stay in the game.
I got to stay in the game for the whole third and fourth
quarter, including the overtime.And I just kept running, just
kept running, just kept running.And and that's all I could ever
think about. Everything got quiet.
(36:48):
I was in my own zone. I was in my own happy place, if
you will, and that's how I was able to get through the game.
Not only that, but my teammates was encouraging me.
And and I kept coming back to the huddle, tears running out my
eyes, Troy looking at me saying,you all right?
Yeah, just call to play. Just call to play.
(37:10):
And it was a wrong play. I'm like, OK.
And he just kept saying he hanging there, man Hanging
there. To to what extent on the team's
flight home you were playing in New York flight back to Dallas,
Did the team actually consider stopping in a random city to get
you to the hospital sooner? Yeah, because after the game,
(37:32):
I'm, I'm so thankful that we wonthe game.
I don't even recall seeing the kick the field go go between the
uprights because I was in so much pain.
So I went and got on the bus andthen on the ride, on the plane
ride back, the pain was so intense because the air,
altitude and everything else, I was trying to knock my shoulder
out of place up against the wallbecause it was hurting so bad.
(37:54):
And they came, they held me down.
I think the doc may have given me a shot and I went back out.
Then I woke up again, pow, banging it up against the
window, screaming, it was hurting.
And Kevin O'Neill said, hey, man, we may have to land this
plane in Memphis to get you to ahospital.
I'm like, no, just get me back to Dallas.
(38:15):
I said if I'm going to die, I want to die in Dallas.
Tell about when you really got injured on the Bears turf.
You lost all the feeling on yourleft side and you thought your
career. I thought my career was over.
I mean, injuries do come and andI never thought I would get
injured faking like I had a football.
(38:38):
And so we had to play down on the goal line where I tried to
act like I had the ball and I was diving over the top and I
came down awkwardly on my shoulder.
Pinch, pinch made a nerve in my back and it didn't feel good.
And, and I lost the feeling on on the side, on my I want to
stay on my left side. And they carted me off and, and
(39:05):
I was and all I could see was the moon.
And so coming off the field and going in into the stadium,
underneath the stadium, and everybody's circling around you
and talking and you can't see nothing.
But all you can do is move your eyes left and right.
Can't move your head. And, and all of a sudden, Walter
Payton shows up right over my head, whispering in my ear,
(39:25):
you're going to be OK. You're going to be OK Don't
worry about it. You're going to be OK.
Kissing me on the forehead, talking to Rich, talking to
everybody in there. I didn't even know he was in the
stands at the time. And, and so it, it, it, it, it
comforted me for the moment, butmy idol was standing right over
me. It was a great thing to know
(39:46):
that he was there. And, and so they whisked me off
to the hospital. And I recall hearing him saying
to Rich, here's my number. If he needs anything, call me,
just give me an update. And, and, and that was that.
And so it was cool just to have him there.
(40:06):
But moments like that are rare. Moments for injuries will occur,
but be injured and to have one of your idols actually come down
and see on you, check on you wasphenomenal.
You you first met Walter Payton at a 95 awards ceremony and he
made a point of coming over and sitting next to you.
What do you recall from what youguys talked about?
(40:28):
We we talked about everything under the sun.
We talked about the game of football, we talked about his
career, we talked about his workethic, we talked about his
eating habits, we talked about his recovery habits.
We talked about transitioning from the game business and all
those things. We talked about family, we
talked about not losing yourself.
We talked about all of those things.
(40:49):
And it seemed like a whole day, but it was probably a matter of
an hour. But having a conversation with
someone that you look up to for so looked up to for so long and
to have that insight from someone that's was the ultimate
or the consummate professional it.
Was cool. His nickname was Sweetness and
you actually. I had sweetness on my Letterman
(41:12):
jacket in high school. High school, right?
I mean, you really looked up to him growing up.
What did he ask you to do with his?
Son, you know, during, during the time when he, he, he got
ill, I'd never at that point in time in my life, I'd never seen
a person with so much strength to face his situation the way he
(41:33):
did there he was a man that was actually dying encouraging me
and, and in return, I mean, basically I had to ask the
question, is there is anything Icould do?
And he said, no, he said, I'm good.
He said, I'm at peace with whereI'm at.
(41:55):
He said, but every now and then just reach out to my son Jerry
to make sure that he's OK, stay in touch with him and just be
there for him if he needs you. And that was it.
And I was like, that's not a problem.
I would do that. And you know, but the
encouraging part was to watch a man who had played the same
(42:19):
sport that I played, same position, done the things that
I've done and watch him face death the way he did with his
attitude was incredible. But it was it was heart
wrenching too, because as a football player, you want your
idol to be there someday. If you do something very, very
(42:40):
special, if you surpass him in anything, you want to celebrate
it with him. And and that that opportunity
never happened, but I had the opportunity of celebrating it
with his family. And that means just as much.
He died at 45 years old. Then a few days after that, the
Cowboys are playing the Vikings.And you said that game that
(43:06):
night was unlike anything you'veever experienced before,
including the three Super Bowl victories.
Because what I felt his spirit that night and I said, you know
what? Tonight I want to dedicate this
night to him. I want to go out and I wanted to
be the best night I've ever had in my professional career.
I wanted to go out and rush for over 275 yards and break his
(43:28):
single season rushing record. That's what I wanted to do.
And man, I was on a mission. I was on my way until I broke my
hand in the second quarter. And but that night was full of
emotions because I wanted it forhim.
I wanted to do it for him. I wanted to say this night, this
(43:51):
performance was dedicated to him.
And it's still, I mean, it stillgets you a little emotional even
talking about to this day. He he mean.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, he did.
I mean, he he was a he, he was aa great man.
And and I just love the way he handled himself on the football
(44:12):
field, handed himself off the football field.
Even some of the referees that Ijoke around with, they say you,
you, I remind them of him because I joke with him just the
way he used to. And I didn't even know he used
to joke with them. But but that's, you know, that's
the ultimate compliment. When, when, when someone says
that you remind them of someone that you looked up to as a
(44:34):
athlete. That's that's kind of cool.
Booze, drugs, girls, the you know, the kind of the excesses
of the Cowboys of the 90s. His stories have become that of
legend. How hard was it to avoid getting
caught up in all of that excess?You know, I could point to a
(44:57):
couple of occasions where I learned very valuable lessons.
One of those occasions that happened in college when I got
suspended with the some of my teammates for fighting and the
headlines read Smith and Smith and eleven others.
That's all they read. So I learned there that lesson
of being guilty by association and your name will make
(45:19):
headlines. Another one occurred in my
career as a Dallas Cowboy that night with James Washington my
rookie year here in Dallas. And obviously I just got drafted
probably 2 weeks prior to our first camp or 10 days prior to
(45:40):
our first camp. And James Washington, who
actually had a vehicle at the time, a white Mercedes, he and I
decided a bunch of us decided togo to a nightclub.
And James and I didn't know, didnot know the ways, but he only
knew one way that somebody told him.
And so we, we ride down the street called Harry Hines.
And Harry Hines is a street withsome night walkers hang out at.
(46:05):
And I didn't know this, I didn'tknow the severity of it until we
got pulled over by some Dallas cops and they got out, some of
them had the the guns drawn. They come in approaching the car
and and they shining lights and,and people don't and cops
probably they know what they're doing because they shining the
light to the point where it's inyour face where you can't see
(46:25):
nothing anyway. So if you disoriented and moving
around, I can see how they can put a cap in somebody easy.
But at the end of the day, we put our hands up out the window
and so forth and you know, they asking for driving license and
everything else, treating us like criminals, like we about to
do something wrong, all because we're in a Mercedes-Benz.
(46:45):
So we driving while black. Be honest with you.
And these are black cops. So it's not like these are white
cops. These are black cops.
So at the end of the day, they they, they, they, they tell us
guys, do y'all know what street y'all on?
I'm like, man, I'm new to this city.
How would I know this? And so he started to explain to
us what street we are on and andI'm like, OK, cool, James, James
(47:10):
driving. We got out, got where they let
us go. And right then and there, I said
I learned my second valuable lesson.
What'd you learn from it? I.
Learned never to ride with anybody, to drive yourself.
You can leave when you want to. You can go where you want.
Everything else. Then I learned a valuable
lesson. One night hanging out in Dallas
(47:32):
before we played the Giants one night I hung out with a friend
of mine. We hung out till about four
o'clock 5:00 in the morning. This is sort of the morning of a
game now. No, no, this is not the morning
of the game. This is the Friday night before
we departed to go to New York. So I get home about 5:00, we the
(47:55):
plane departs at 10. So I get about two or three
hours of sleep right and I'm wore out.
Well, the next day we playing and we jump on New York behind
and I'm running. I'm having a great game.
But in the first half, we we scored 30 some points on them in
(48:17):
the first half. And I'm having a good game.
But I'm in a huddle and I'm gasping for air.
I can't hardly breathe. My legs are just numb.
I turn them, turn the mic. I said, Mike, I can't feel my
legs. I can't feel my legs.
And so after that game, New Yorkcomes back.
We barely wins the game. On the ride back.
I said right then and I said, you know what?
(48:38):
I can't do this no more. I cannot do this no more.
It's either the streets or it's my career.
Yeah. So I had to make a decision.
And I said, you know what, if I'm a party, I'm only going to
party. I'm going to party up to
Thursday if I if I want to, but I'm shutting it down.
I'm not doing these things no more than I said, you know what,
that's that. So you learn lessons along the
(49:00):
way and there are signs that you're going down the wrong path
and you try to correct those things before they get too bad.
How out of control was it thoughas a team?
The Parting in the 90s. I wouldn't say that depends on
your your definition of out of control.
Sure, I. Mean.
(49:23):
OK, by normal people standard. Well, what?
What? You don't know what normal
people are doing now. You just don't know.
I mean, you, they just not caught.
They just not publicized the wayit is I mean.
OK, compared to what your life is now.
Oh, I'm married now. I got 55 kids now I have deeper,
(49:43):
deeper responsibilities. At the time I was single.
So to each their own. As long as you.
I mean, you're a single man and there are single people out
there that enjoy being single. And so at the end of the day, I
mean, you just have to learn howto do things in moderation and,
(50:04):
and that's what I learned as well.
So once and for all, what? What was the White House?
I can't talk about the White House.
It's not my place to talk about the White House.
I mean the White House is where George Bush was at along with
Bill Clinton and and so we visited the White House 3 times.
So this wasn't a place the Cowboys rented for the party.
(50:25):
I don't know what you're talkingabout.
Here here to to what extent do you think the like excessiveness
played a role in kind of the thedownfall of the team?
You know what I think excessiveness plays a role in
everybody's career, in everybody's life.
Success sometimes make you thinkthat you were invincible and
that you could do almost anything.
(50:47):
But the the true strength of having success is being able to
control it and not allow it to take control of you.
Not be arrogant with it or to the point where you allow people
to embrace you the way that theywant to embrace you and you're
OK with it because you know who you are and what you've been
(51:08):
able to accomplish. Being self confident, not self
arrogant in that way, in that regard.
And that's to me, I see that happens happening quite a bit in
just about anybody, whether you're in business, sometimes
you get business and now you toobig for your bridges.
Same thing in sport, same thing in life.
(51:28):
I mean, people get to certain levels and they think that they
have arrived and so they forget the journey and the process that
they'd gone through to get to that point.
That's something that I tried not to ever forget, is what it
takes to not only be where I'm at, but sustain where I'm at and
take it even further. And I think that keeps things in
(51:50):
perspective. How concerned are you by the the
potential long term side effectsthat having played for so long
will? Have on you.
I am concerned. I am very concerned and here's
why. No man in the National Football
League has cared the football more than I have, which means
I've been hit more times than anybody in the National Football
(52:11):
League. No one is rushing more yardage
than I have. So that meant that I ran a long
ways. But just the hits themselves
when I think about guys like Tony Dorsett and Rayfield Wright
and many others right now that are dealing with those head
trauma issues, yes, it is a concern.
I'm only 45 right now and, and when I think about these guys,
(52:35):
these guys in the mid to late 50s and so 10 more years talk to
me. It's not that far away.
It's not that far away, but 10 more years.
Talk to me. Let's see how how I'm doing
then. And, and, and, and that to me
probably say a lot, but what I'mdoing right now, I'm on the
preventative side. I'm taking the initiative to to
(52:57):
establish a baseline and monitormyself probably every year or
every two years if I have to, orall according to what the
doctor's request. And so far I'm doing OK.
And you have gout, which is severe arthritis.
How does that affect you? It only effects when I have a
flare. My uric acid levels were
(53:19):
extremely high therefore whenever I had AI had a flare up
and it attacked some of my joints and it it attacked my big
toe and my right right point finger.
But long as I keep my uric acid levels in in check I think I
will be OK with gout. I can manage that piece.
Do you any other effects currently?
No, no. I mean, my neck is jacked up.
(53:43):
My head is always tethered to the right or to the left, which
I can't tell you which way. When I'm looking in the mirror,
it's like like it's to the right, maybe it's to the left,
but I don't know. But at the end of the day.
That's from the plant. Yeah, well, it is from the from
the from the hits to the head and my neck is jacked up.
And so that part, outside of that, it doesn't really give me
a whole lot of issues. But outside of that I'm doing
(54:06):
pretty good. I can't comply.
The NFL that has settled with the retired players for $765
million. Money that's intended What?
That's nothing, right? The money that's intended it's.
Only like $20,000 a player, $20,000 a player, that's
nothing. I mean no offense to somebody
that think $20 a $1000 a lot, but $20,000 you just go to the
(54:29):
hospital one time, it's gone. That's how quick $20,000 can go.
Heck, I got $15,000 worth of worth of repairment that I got
to do to my house, $20,000 gone quick, quick.
And what the issues that we all going to be dealing with, it's
going to be worth, it's going tocost a lot more than $20,000.
(54:49):
That'll do it for this week. To see video clips of my time
with Smith or other football legends, head to
youtube.com/graham Bensinger. And if you enjoyed this podcast,
please leave us a rating and review.
Thanks again for listening.
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