June 23, 2023 • 42 mins
We will explore the systemic erasure of Black women at work. Despite their significant contributions to the workforce and following the yellow brick road for advancement, the career ladder is stalled.
In this episode of Inclusion Unscripted, host Margaret Spence will discuss the state of Black Women's Careers and the unique and complex challenges that hinder their career advancement. From racial and gender-based discrimination to unequal pay and lack of representation, Black women often face a workplace environment that excludes and undervalues them. We delve into these issues and discuss what individuals and organizations can do to create a more equitable and inclusive workplace for Black women.
Inclusion Unscripted, where we're not just talking about diversity and inclusion, we're living it. The Inclusion Unscripted Live Weekly Podcast, hosted by Margaret Spence, is unapologetically honest about diversity and inclusion in the workplace. Our goal is to empower diverse listeners to ask for what they want and to inspire organizations to co-create more equitable and inclusive workplaces. Tune in every week for a new episode. Inclusion Unscripted is a live-streamed broadcast every Friday at 2 pm EST on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. Join us live, or find us on iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcasts app. Inclusion Unscripted with Host Margaret Spence. Sponsored by The Inclusion Learning Lab - https://inclusionlearninglab.com Intro Music Credit (Canva Pro) The Winner by Tape Machine Epidemic Sound
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
You are like a circle that floats around me, keeping me safe and sound, and when a fall you tied a rope to me.
You've listen me every day I was down with like a sparrow with broken wings, but now shine.
(00:26):
Will your reflection on me.
So today for Black History Month, we're gonna talk about the imaginary career development and the mysterious career development for women of color.
(00:46):
For those of you who are joining me for the first time, my name is Margaret Spence and I'm the founder of the Inclusion Learning Lab and the weekly host of inclusion, unscripted.
So today my voice is a little gone.
I'm working on it.
I have throat lozenger going on, but I had to do today's show.
(01:09):
It's the first day of first week, first days.
Of Women's History Month, and so what we we're, we're gonna talk about today is the systemic erasure of black women at work.
How do we systemically erase black women when we are thinking about developing them within their career? Despite contributions in the workforce despite following the yellow brick road for advancement, the career ladder is either stalled or erased every time we try to get on the ladder.
(01:55):
So as we go up the ladder, we get to a point where we're stuck.
We follow the rules that have been given to us, the yellow brick road that we are told.
If we follow the yellow brick road, we will get advancement.
Our career will grow.
There will be places for us to go in the organization, and oftentimes, black women are sold a bill of goods.
(02:24):
The bill of goods is something like this.
You're not quite ready yet.
Or you are ready, but we don't have a position open for you, or we have a better candidate that fits this role right now.
And so if we're gonna have an honest discussion during Women's History Month about women.
(02:51):
Then we need to address the subgroups of women and not the generalization of women.
Nothing annoys me more than organizations who think they are diverse because they have women as a checkbox in their diversity process.
See, if you have women checked and the women who are checked aren't diverse, then you've really done nothing.
(03:18):
Except re separate your organization.
So that's what we're gonna talk about today.
Today we're talking about the Ladder to Nowhere, how black women get erased in the process of growing their career.
(03:39):
So thank you for joining me today for Inclusion unscripted.
My name is Margaret Spence.
If this is the first time you're joining thank you for being here.
The Inclusion Unscripted is a weekly live podcast and I tried to come live last week.
I had no voice, so we were not live last week, but we are generally live at 2:00 PM on Friday, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
(04:07):
You can download our episodes from your favorite podcast app.
You can visit our website inclusion learning lab.com
and I'll put that up on the screen for everyone and you can go to our website and you can sign up for our episodes and information about our upcoming podcast.
(04:28):
So we are fresh off of Black History Month.
And during Black History Month, I talked about us pretending that we want diversity and inclusion.
I think I could have just taken that same title into Women's History Month and said, are we pretending that we want black women in leadership? And that should have been the probably the title of this episode today.
(04:58):
So what.
Let me, I, I don't even know because let me tell you, I left regular employment, what I call regular employment, nine to five to start my own business because I just got sick and tired of mainly white women bosses telling me how I could be successful.
(05:24):
And then giving me the, the, the process to be successful and then moving the bar after they gave it to me.
And so there was never, ever going to be an attainable spot that I was going to have because the bar moves every single time.
(05:45):
There are many black women who are sitting in your organization today.
Who are frustrated, who are angry, who are upset, who are resolved, who are being resilient, who are trying their best to maintain some decorum because they feel aggrieved by your talent development process.
(06:12):
And so black women face all kinds of things in the workforce.
We face it in the form of subtle but direct microaggressions.
We, we face it in terms of lack of development.
But I think the biggest issue that occurs for black women in the workforce is the fact that no one wants to give us the full information to manage our careers effectively.
(06:45):
I honestly think that this is a self saboteur process around black women.
I think that we self sabotage in terms of not a woman sab, black woman sabotaging herself, but we set black women up to be self sabotaged.
(07:09):
Because you tell us in your talent development processes, you will give us foundational skills.
We'll learn how to move our career forward.
We'll learn how to navigate for ourselves.
You wanna teach us how to be assertive? You wanna teach us how to operate in executive spaces? You want us to get mentors? So we go out and we get mentors, and then you tell us, well, we gotta have mentors who are champions.
(07:47):
And we go out and we get the mentors who are champions, the people who are willing to pick the phone up, dial in for us, call in for us, go into the rooms that we're not in, and advocate for our growth.
And then you say to us, oh, Get a sponsor because that's how I got to this role.
(08:12):
So if we sit down in the circle of majority men and women, they'll tell us their story of how they advanced.
How did you manage your career, is the question.
Oh, let me tell you.
I went from here, here to here to here.
And I had great mentors who mentored me.
And I had great sponsors who sponsored me and I had phenomenal champions who championed me.
(08:38):
And so we as black women get it in our head that if we go out now and find these mentors and we get them to mentor us up and we have deep conversations with these mentors, and the mentors give us great, solid advice.
(09:00):
And we follow that great advice and we do what the mentor tells us to do.
And we attend the leadership development program that's been put out by our company and we show up, smile and we do what we're supposed to do that will find a, a champion and a sponsor.
(09:22):
And oftentimes we find a champion and we find a sponsor who's willing to endorse and underwrite us as women of color.
And then when we do all of that, every bit of that is done.
We go out now and we apply for the job.
We think we want.
(09:45):
And that's where the whole system that y'all created.
About talent development blows up.
It literally explodes because see, there's two or three different versions of talent development.
There's a version that's given to white men.
(10:07):
There's a version that's given to white women.
There's a version that's given to black women.
There's a version that's given to Hispanic women.
There's a version that's given to Asian women.
There's a version that's given to native women.
There's a version that's given to non-gender conforming women.
(10:30):
See, cuz everybody has their own version of talent development.
There's no one cookie cutter method for me to move from point A to point B.
Even though you may think you have created a one size can fit all.
(10:51):
What in essence happens is depending on the person going through the process.
That's how we figure out whether we are going to be included or not.
That's the method of inclusion.
Inclusion doesn't happen because it's going to happen.
Inclusion happens in talent development depending on who we are.
(11:16):
So this week I posted something, well, I didn't post it.
Another organization posted it on LinkedIn and they posted Simon Sinek's picture.
And Simon Sinek says, we don't hire for skills.
We hire for attitude, and cuz we can teach skills.
And I said, that's not true.
(11:38):
See, for black and brown women especially and men specifically, you don't hire us for our attitude.
You don't promote us because we have a good attitude.
You don't empower us because of our attitude.
See, here's how it works for, here's how talent development works for people of color.
(12:03):
The first bar that we have to overcome is prove your skills.
Prove your skills.
That's the first bar.
So we're running a, you know, a a a race where we're having to jump over the hurdles on the way to the end.
(12:23):
So the first hurdle is prove your skills.
And then they compare that against the skills we need.
But nobody gives us the blueprint that says, prove your skills, but here's the skills we should have told you you needed the day you started working for us.
Way back when.
See, nobody does that leveling up, right? That leveling up doesn't occur.
(12:47):
So then fast forward, A woman is told take some classes, get certified demonstrate, ask for stretch assignments.
The challenge for women of color is that the stretch assignments don't come with the assignment we need.
(13:07):
The stretch assignment often comes with the garbage work that other people don't wanna do.
So when we ask for stretch assignments, instead of getting things that are going to be ready to be put onto our resume so that it can be stacked accordingly, what we get is the garbage work that is considered stretch assignment.
(13:29):
When our counterparts get the plumb work, that gets them seen by the powers above and they get tapped immediately for roles and we don't get that assignment because we're down here doing the grunt work, which is now considered stretch assignment.
See the wording around stretch assignment that we say as the hurdle two that's given to black and brown women is.
(13:51):
If you take these stretch assignments, you'll be better adapted to and ready to take on the promotion.
The problem is nobody ever sits down with you and matches up the stretch assignment that you've been given to a journey that you're going on with your career.
(14:12):
So that's another one of those imaginary.
Black women, black men, Hispanic, Asian men and women hurdle.
Because see, when our counterparts are given the stretch assignments, they're told, if you take this stretch assignment, it will prepare you for this role, which will be coming available in nine months.
(14:36):
And we want you to be ready so that when the role opens, you have the necessary prerequisite skills for that opportunity.
See, that's the conversation that occurs on the non-diverse side of the house.
On the diverse side of the house, it's you need stretch assignments so that you can gain the skills necessary so that we can consider you for the role.
(15:03):
There's our hurdles, hurdle number two, hurdle number three.
Once you've gotten those stretch assignments, then they say, well, the role is not open yet.
So we'll, we're gonna we're, we're still gonna consider you, but continue doing your current job.
We're going to consider you keep doing your current role because you've, you've, you've checked all the boxes we need, but somewhere after that conversation with us, the number of boxes and the placeholder on the boxes get moved.
(15:36):
But nobody ever came back to us to say, Hey, Margaret black girl in the ring.
This, the ring has been moved.
It moved across the street, and you need to move across the street with it.
That conversation doesn't happen for us at all.
So now we think we're ready.
(15:58):
We think we're absolutely ready for whatever movement we desire.
And the reality is we have been kept in the dark around the exact skills and competencies needed to move ahead.
No one intended to tell you about the exact skills and competencies needed to move ahead.
(16:21):
There wasn't that blueprint.
It was never going to be given to you.
And on top of that, there was never going to be a conversation with your manager to say, Hey, manager we are considering Margaret for this role, so we want you to give her some additional work that's gonna help her prepare for the role.
(16:44):
When it comes open, the manager conversation doesn't occur.
So if the manager doesn't know, Where you are supposed to be headed and you don't know what you need exactly to go there, that is where you get erased from the talent development process and it becomes now a mystery of how you grow and build your career.
(17:12):
So let me give you some data points because I think it's important to hear the data points lean in.
Who publishes the women in the Workplace report every year and every year, leanin does this whole report around women in the workplace, and when Leanin does the report, they give certain data points year after year after year.
(17:38):
And so I'm gonna read directly from the report.
It says, black women receiving less support from their managers.
Managers are less likely to advocate for black women.
This is not my report.
This is Lean In's report.
This is directly from Lean in.
(17:59):
Leanin says, women of color and black women in particular tend to receive less support and encouragement from their managers.
In fact, I'm adding this part.
In fact, what what they do to you as a black woman is frustrates you to the point where you give up trying to advance your career.
(18:22):
That is the the fact compared to white women, black women are less likely to have managers showcase their work, advocate for new opportunities for them, and give them the opportunity to manage people and projects, which will be their stretch assignments, right? Black women are also less likely to report.
(18:43):
Likely to report that their manager helps them navigate organizational politics or balance work life and personal life.
So we are not given the skills or tools or ability or, or support to navigate the organizational politics because here's what I know, no one gets promoted unless you jump over the organization.
(19:07):
Politics and the locus of power within the organization.
See, nobody gets that.
Normally, no one gets that process normally, right? No one gets that process.
And so what ends up happening is as black women, we get less support.
(19:31):
Now let me read you the Lean in statistics.
The, the data is my manager helps me navigate organizational politics.
Only 24% of black women said that was true.
My manager advocates for new opportunities for me, 29% versus our counterparts at 37%.
(19:56):
My manager gives me opportunities to manage people and projects.
36%.
My manager provides opportunities for me to showcase my work.
36%.
My manager helps me manage my career path.
22%.
I don't even think this is an adequate number.
(20:16):
This is 22% of the people who LinkedIn lean in surveyed because the majority of black women have no management of their career path inside of the organization.
They want us to not have the light.
This is the truth and.
(20:37):
The question was, I have sponsors needed to advance my career and only 24% of black women have sponsors.
The follow up question for me is, if you have a sponsor, has the sponsor allowed you to advocate or move your career forward? And I could tell you probably 40% of black women would say no.
The sponsor has not helped me do that.
(20:59):
The sponsor has been a great buffer for me, but the sponsor has not actually delivered on what it is that I need to move my career forward.
So this is the reality for black women, right? And I am going to actually try to share my screen because I wanna, I wanna do a lesson today.
(21:20):
So I'm hoping that everyone can see my screen.
Let me bring this in.
So this is a presentation that I do around talent.
And languaging talent when women are applying for a job and when men are applying for a job.
(21:45):
And when diverse candidates are applying for a job, whether you're applying for the job as a promotion, or you're applying for the job as a new entrant coming into the organization, we describe men as high performers, future leaders, trusted professionals.
That's how men are described when it comes to women.
(22:08):
We say effective leader, high potential woman, steady under pressure.
Okay.
But when it comes to black and brown employees, what we say is most qualified, most qualified, we still say most qualified.
(22:30):
Every time I'm in A D N I discussion about talent development, I get this conversation around most qualified.
But you don't give me what most qualified means.
So if you are sitting in an organization trying to move your career forward and what they're thinking is most qualified, then you're never going to move.
(22:58):
If what they're thinking is best employee and not future leader, you're never going to move because the thing is, in order for black women, And black men and brown men and brown women to move.
We have to not be seen as the best employee because here's the thing, ladies and gentlemen, black women, I'm talking to you directly.
(23:24):
I'm gonna look in the camera and talk to you.
If you are the best employee, you are not the future leader.
If they are languaging you as you are the best employee, you are the best at that skill.
You are the best at doing this.
You are the best here.
If they're languaging you as best employee best skills, you are not future leader.
(23:51):
What best employee and best skills means is you need to stay in the job you're in because if you, if you give you an opportunity to move out of the job you're in, we're gonna have to go train another best employee.
And we don't really wanna train another best employee, so you will never be a future leader.
So they will blow smoke up your ass.
(24:13):
And tell you that you're the best employee and you feel great about being the best employee, but you are not the future leader.
See, many of you want the validation of best employee.
Best employee is not the description of a future leader either.
You tell me that I'm a future leader, and your conversation with me includes the word future leader.
(24:39):
And you are demonstrating that you are going to make me a future leader.
Anything they're saying to you is a load of bull with Anness at the end.
This is what I want you guys to understand.
It's the languaging that is used to describe black women.
(25:00):
It is the languaging that is used that is telling us what they already think.
The challenges.
You guys don't wanna hear them.
They're languaging you.
And the one that kicks me right in my gut is the culture fit.
(25:20):
Or we want people who are culturally fit in our organization.
Culture fit doesn't exist because an organization we have gone around, let me pause.
We have gone around as HR people and we have picked up every single solid little buzz ass word out there in the planet, and we have put these little buzz ass words into things that mean something.
(25:47):
Sort of like I was having, I was having a discussion.
With Ingo, one of my consultants and business partners that work with me, and we were talking about attitude, and he says, I look for people's attitude.
I said, if you look for their attitude, you don't see their skills, you don't see their potential, you don't see their purpose.
(26:11):
You don't see them because all you're doing is looking for attitude and the reality.
The definition of attitude is subjective for black and brown people.
If somebody says she has a great work attitude, or I love her attitude about stuff, what they're saying is, you make me feel safe, and you are not an intimidated black person.
(26:34):
You are not intimidating me as a black person.
So I like your attitude because you're not intimidating me.
That's what they're saying to you.
That is it right there.
If they are saying, oh, I like your attitude, it's because they're not basically thinking about anything but that.
(26:56):
Right? So if.
You are struggling through trying to figure out how am I gonna move from point A to point B? Let me go deeper into languaging around how we language black women for men.
When an, when a male starts, a white male starts to work the requirements that are given to him before he's considered a leader.
(27:24):
A leader is.
Shorter than what's given to a ma, to a woman, right? So maybe an organization would say, this man communicates well.
He's got positive attitude.
He's got confidence.
He's building relationships.
He's good at teamwork.
He's a fast learner.
He's got analysis skills.
(27:44):
We're gonna make him a leader.
We're gonna make him leader right away.
We don't worry if he's adaptable or creative.
We don't worry about that because he's given us confidence and fast learner and teamwork, right? Even if it's self-serving teamwork.
This is the male me mental model and languaging used around male candidates.
(28:08):
Right? Now, imagine now for a second that a woman comes into the mix.
Not a diverse woman, but a woman comes into the mix.
Female talent comes into the mix.
What we'll say about her is communication, positive attitude, confidence, adaptability.
Suddenly adaptability gets moved down.
(28:31):
For a, for a white woman, it moves down the language moves right, then it becomes teamwork, fast learner analysis, skills, relationship, creativity, and if you hit all of those boxes before, then we will consider you for leadership.
See, this is the breakdown.
(28:53):
It's the languaging that is used to describe your process, and so many of you don't realize that you've been erased from the advancement timeline.
You've been erased based on the language they're using to describe you.
(29:17):
Based on the language they're using to describe you, the they're already languaging how they think.
They're already languaging it.
So now when it comes to a person of color, right? When it comes to a person of color, this is what I hear.
(29:43):
Excellent communication because first thing they wanna make sure of is that we can talk and chew gum and not be intimidating.
Positive attitude, right? Positive attitude.
Let me tell you what that definition of that means.
Positive attitude is you don't intimidate me.
(30:03):
You are a good, good black person.
I can deal with you on a daily basis.
And then they want you to be confident, but not overly confident, right? Not confident, where you are exuding confidence but confident and they want you to be adaptable.
What is adaptability when it comes to career development? Adaptability means that if I'm adaptable, that means you can hand me junk assignments and I won't really complain.
(30:38):
You can ask me to do things and I'll say, okay, I'll take that on.
Even though in the back of your mind, you're like swearing.
You know you're adaptable, right? You're adaptable, and then there's your teamwork.
You're team worker.
And you're a team player, right? And then you're a fast learner, and then you've got skills and expertise, but the language of leadership doesn't come next.
(31:15):
So I'm gonna silence that and I'm gonna ask the question, are you hearing the language of leadership from your organization? Listen out.
Go into your company tomorrow, Monday next week, next two weeks, next three weeks, and listen to how leaders are described in your organization.
(31:44):
Listen to how the person, the last person who got promoted is described in your organization.
Listen to that.
And hear that.
Hear the words that are being used to describe that person, and then ask yourself a simple question, are they describing me the same? That is the question.
(32:11):
Are they describing me the same? Because the mythical career ladder is not even at the career ladder.
It's in the view of you, are you being viewed as a leader? Are you being viewed as someone who is advanced who can advance and be successful? Is there a, but let me give you the, but Margaret is an amazing person.
(32:48):
She is phenomenal when it comes to her skills.
She's great at what she does.
I don't know how this team would exist without Margaret.
No idea how we would exist from day to day without Margaret.
Okay, that's it.
(33:10):
There's nothing else being said about you.
Nothing else.
The conversation ended.
You know why the conversation ended.
Because they cannot see your potential.
They can't see what's possible for you beyond right now.
They can't see it, and so they don't language it, right? So here is the assignment before my voice completely dies today, right? Here's the assignment.
(33:43):
I'm gonna keep doing this for Women's History Month.
I'm gonna talk about black women during Women's History month because this is about us, this sisterhood that we belong to, but here's the assignment for today.
What is the organization telling you about your career? What are they telling you? What is the language they're using to describe you? What is the exact language that they're using to describe you? Have you asked deeper? When somebody says you've got the, you've got great skills, have you said, do these skills get me ready for promotion? Have you asked the question when someone says to you in the organization, Margaret, you got great mad skills.
(34:41):
Have you said to them, What is this skill preparing me for? Have you said that? Have you asked that question? So here's the assignment, ladies, my black women, I want you to lift your head up from the desk immediately.
(35:05):
I want you to lift your head up from the desk, right? I want you to understand.
That if they are not telling you where you are going, if you cannot ask the question, what is this task job skill preparing me for, then you are not moving ahead.
(35:31):
You are not moving ahead.
You are not moving ahead.
You are sitting still in that spot.
And guess what? Everyone is comfortable with you sitting there.
So here is the assignment.
Let me get to it and my voice is going right.
(35:52):
I want you all to pull out a journal.
I want you to keep a career journal starting today.
The Career Journal needs to list the skills that you are acquiring.
I want you all over this weekend and next week till we come back on Friday, and hopefully I'll have a voice on Friday, right? When we come back on Friday.
(36:16):
I want all of you who are listening to me live, who are listening to the recording.
I want you to start a career journey, a journal on one side.
I want you to write the skills you have gained, the skills you are gaining.
The skills that you think you have.
On another side, I want you to write what you've accomplished in your role.
(36:37):
Every single solid accomplishment that you've had in your role.
I want you to write that down.
Solid, writing that down.
Okay? And then I want ask you to decide where you wanna go next.
And I want you to go look at the skills that are required for that position.
(36:59):
And put it in that Jo Journal as well, and I need you to line this up.
Are the skills you are gaining, preparing you to go where you want to go and if the skills you are gaining that you are proficient at, because here's the thing, black women, here's the thing, my sisters, here's the thing.
(37:19):
Most of you can do your job with your eyes closed.
You don't even need.
A reason to do the job.
You come in, the job is on rote.
Maybe something will come in and intervene that stops your day.
But the job and the process is on rote.
If you can close your eyes and do your job, you have outgrown the position you're in, and it's time for you to move up.
(37:44):
And if you cannot move up, sisters, move out because equity.
Is the theme of this Women's history Month, and we don't get equity by sitting solid in these jobs that are not willing to promote us.
Don't be loyal to the loyalist who will not be loyal to you.
(38:09):
Here's the thing, if they're gonna lay you off like they've been doing all this last couple of months, they're not gonna be loyal to you.
And if you don't build your skills so that it aligns so that you can take those skills somewhere else or move up where you are right now, you are missing your own opportunity.
(38:30):
And let me see the last thing to you cuz my voice is officially going.
Now, last thing to you ladies.
Your only job is managing your career.
Let me say that again.
Your only job is managing your career.
You don't have another job.
You work.
(38:51):
Work is not your job.
Work is your sustenance.
It is your apprentice.
It is your thing that you do, but your purpose in life is to manage your own life.
And managing your own life means that you manage your career.
If you manage your life, you manage your career, you don't depend on a job or a leader or an organization to tell you what your potential is.
(39:23):
You don't depend on them because the purpose that we are standing here on the shoulders and giants that we are standing on, all the people that walk slavery and Jim Crow and all the other crap that we've walked.
The, the people that walked all of that for us did not walk all of that for us to get complacent.
(39:45):
Now they walked that for us to be steadfast, resilient, but on purpose with our careers on purpose, black women on purpose with our career.
So get that journal, write your skills down, write 'em down.
(40:07):
Match 'em up is this skill I'm gaining, preparing me for anything other than a cute resume that I cannot get hired and I cannot get promoted.
And are they just blowing smoke up my behind by telling me I'm the best employee they could ever have? Don't be the best.
(40:29):
Be the future leader.
Don't be the best employee.
Be the future leader.
And if you wanna be the future leader, then you know that the only job you have is managing your career.
That's it.
Nothing else.
So my voice made it to the end of today.
(40:50):
I will be back next week.
Thank you, Gina, for your wonderful comments.
Thank you all that are joining live.
Thank you for listening to this.
But this month I want us as black women to tune into ourselves.
It's Women's History Month, but we have a history that we need to tell our history.
(41:14):
So thank you.
Join me next Friday and I hope to have a better voice by next Friday.
Take care.
Everyone have a great weekend.
You're like a circle that floats around me, keeping me safe and sound.
And when a fall you tied a rope to you've listen me day.
(41:39):
I was down with an illusion like a sparrow with broken wings.
But now shine will your reflection.
Thank you everyone.
Take care.
Have a good weekend.
And thank you for everyone who joined live.
Christina.
Thank you.
Great comment.
(41:59):
Thank you.
Thank you.
And Gina, thank you as well.
Again, take care.
Bye.
You are like a circle that floats around me, keeping me safe and sound, and when a fall you tied a rope to me.
You've listen me every day I was down with like a sparrow with broken wings, but now shine.
(00:26):
Will your reflection on me.
So today for Black History Month, we're gonna talk about the imaginary career development and the mysterious career development for women of color.
(00:46):
For those of you who are joining me for the first time, my name is Margaret Spence and I'm the founder of the Inclusion Learning Lab and the weekly host of inclusion, unscripted.
So today my voice is a little gone.
I'm working on it.
I have throat lozenger going on, but I had to do today's show.
(01:09):
It's the first day of first week, first days.
Of Women's History Month, and so what we we're, we're gonna talk about today is the systemic erasure of black women at work.
How do we systemically erase black women when we are thinking about developing them within their career? Despite contributions in the workforce despite following the yellow brick road for advancement, the career ladder is either stalled or erased every time we try to get on the ladder.
(01:55):
So as we go up the ladder, we get to a point where we're stuck.
We follow the rules that have been given to us, the yellow brick road that we are told.
If we follow the yellow brick road, we will get advancement.
Our career will grow.
There will be places for us to go in the organization, and oftentimes, black women are sold a bill of goods.
(02:24):
The bill of goods is something like this.
You're not quite ready yet.
Or you are ready, but we don't have a position open for you, or we have a better candidate that fits this role right now.
And so if we're gonna have an honest discussion during Women's History Month about women.
(02:51):
Then we need to address the subgroups of women and not the generalization of women.
Nothing annoys me more than organizations who think they are diverse because they have women as a checkbox in their diversity process.
See, if you have women checked and the women who are checked aren't diverse, then you've really done nothing.
(03:18):
Except re separate your organization.
So that's what we're gonna talk about today.
Today we're talking about the Ladder to Nowhere, how black women get erased in the process of growing their career.
(03:39):
So thank you for joining me today for Inclusion unscripted.
My name is Margaret Spence.
If this is the first time you're joining thank you for being here.
The Inclusion Unscripted is a weekly live podcast and I tried to come live last week.
I had no voice, so we were not live last week, but we are generally live at 2:00 PM on Friday, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and YouTube.
(04:07):
You can download our episodes from your favorite podcast app.
You can visit our website inclusion learning lab.com
and I'll put that up on the screen for everyone and you can go to our website and you can sign up for our episodes and information about our upcoming podcast.
(04:28):
So we are fresh off of Black History Month.
And during Black History Month, I talked about us pretending that we want diversity and inclusion.
I think I could have just taken that same title into Women's History Month and said, are we pretending that we want black women in leadership? And that should have been the probably the title of this episode today.
(04:58):
So what.
Let me, I, I don't even know because let me tell you, I left regular employment, what I call regular employment, nine to five to start my own business because I just got sick and tired of mainly white women bosses telling me how I could be successful.
(05:24):
And then giving me the, the, the process to be successful and then moving the bar after they gave it to me.
And so there was never, ever going to be an attainable spot that I was going to have because the bar moves every single time.
(05:45):
There are many black women who are sitting in your organization today.
Who are frustrated, who are angry, who are upset, who are resolved, who are being resilient, who are trying their best to maintain some decorum because they feel aggrieved by your talent development process.
(06:12):
And so black women face all kinds of things in the workforce.
We face it in the form of subtle but direct microaggressions.
We, we face it in terms of lack of development.
But I think the biggest issue that occurs for black women in the workforce is the fact that no one wants to give us the full information to manage our careers effectively.
(06:45):
I honestly think that this is a self saboteur process around black women.
I think that we self sabotage in terms of not a woman sab, black woman sabotaging herself, but we set black women up to be self sabotaged.
(07:09):
Because you tell us in your talent development processes, you will give us foundational skills.
We'll learn how to move our career forward.
We'll learn how to navigate for ourselves.
You wanna teach us how to be assertive? You wanna teach us how to operate in executive spaces? You want us to get mentors? So we go out and we get mentors, and then you tell us, well, we gotta have mentors who are champions.
(07:47):
And we go out and we get the mentors who are champions, the people who are willing to pick the phone up, dial in for us, call in for us, go into the rooms that we're not in, and advocate for our growth.
And then you say to us, oh, Get a sponsor because that's how I got to this role.
(08:12):
So if we sit down in the circle of majority men and women, they'll tell us their story of how they advanced.
How did you manage your career, is the question.
Oh, let me tell you.
I went from here, here to here to here.
And I had great mentors who mentored me.
And I had great sponsors who sponsored me and I had phenomenal champions who championed me.
(08:38):
And so we as black women get it in our head that if we go out now and find these mentors and we get them to mentor us up and we have deep conversations with these mentors, and the mentors give us great, solid advice.
(09:00):
And we follow that great advice and we do what the mentor tells us to do.
And we attend the leadership development program that's been put out by our company and we show up, smile and we do what we're supposed to do that will find a, a champion and a sponsor.
(09:22):
And oftentimes we find a champion and we find a sponsor who's willing to endorse and underwrite us as women of color.
And then when we do all of that, every bit of that is done.
We go out now and we apply for the job.
We think we want.
(09:45):
And that's where the whole system that y'all created.
About talent development blows up.
It literally explodes because see, there's two or three different versions of talent development.
There's a version that's given to white men.
(10:07):
There's a version that's given to white women.
There's a version that's given to black women.
There's a version that's given to Hispanic women.
There's a version that's given to Asian women.
There's a version that's given to native women.
There's a version that's given to non-gender conforming women.
(10:30):
See, cuz everybody has their own version of talent development.
There's no one cookie cutter method for me to move from point A to point B.
Even though you may think you have created a one size can fit all.
(10:51):
What in essence happens is depending on the person going through the process.
That's how we figure out whether we are going to be included or not.
That's the method of inclusion.
Inclusion doesn't happen because it's going to happen.
Inclusion happens in talent development depending on who we are.
(11:16):
So this week I posted something, well, I didn't post it.
Another organization posted it on LinkedIn and they posted Simon Sinek's picture.
And Simon Sinek says, we don't hire for skills.
We hire for attitude, and cuz we can teach skills.
And I said, that's not true.
(11:38):
See, for black and brown women especially and men specifically, you don't hire us for our attitude.
You don't promote us because we have a good attitude.
You don't empower us because of our attitude.
See, here's how it works for, here's how talent development works for people of color.
(12:03):
The first bar that we have to overcome is prove your skills.
Prove your skills.
That's the first bar.
So we're running a, you know, a a a race where we're having to jump over the hurdles on the way to the end.
(12:23):
So the first hurdle is prove your skills.
And then they compare that against the skills we need.
But nobody gives us the blueprint that says, prove your skills, but here's the skills we should have told you you needed the day you started working for us.
Way back when.
See, nobody does that leveling up, right? That leveling up doesn't occur.
(12:47):
So then fast forward, A woman is told take some classes, get certified demonstrate, ask for stretch assignments.
The challenge for women of color is that the stretch assignments don't come with the assignment we need.
(13:07):
The stretch assignment often comes with the garbage work that other people don't wanna do.
So when we ask for stretch assignments, instead of getting things that are going to be ready to be put onto our resume so that it can be stacked accordingly, what we get is the garbage work that is considered stretch assignment.
(13:29):
When our counterparts get the plumb work, that gets them seen by the powers above and they get tapped immediately for roles and we don't get that assignment because we're down here doing the grunt work, which is now considered stretch assignment.
See the wording around stretch assignment that we say as the hurdle two that's given to black and brown women is.
(13:51):
If you take these stretch assignments, you'll be better adapted to and ready to take on the promotion.
The problem is nobody ever sits down with you and matches up the stretch assignment that you've been given to a journey that you're going on with your career.
(14:12):
So that's another one of those imaginary.
Black women, black men, Hispanic, Asian men and women hurdle.
Because see, when our counterparts are given the stretch assignments, they're told, if you take this stretch assignment, it will prepare you for this role, which will be coming available in nine months.
(14:36):
And we want you to be ready so that when the role opens, you have the necessary prerequisite skills for that opportunity.
See, that's the conversation that occurs on the non-diverse side of the house.
On the diverse side of the house, it's you need stretch assignments so that you can gain the skills necessary so that we can consider you for the role.
(15:03):
There's our hurdles, hurdle number two, hurdle number three.
Once you've gotten those stretch assignments, then they say, well, the role is not open yet.
So we'll, we're gonna we're, we're still gonna consider you, but continue doing your current job.
We're going to consider you keep doing your current role because you've, you've, you've checked all the boxes we need, but somewhere after that conversation with us, the number of boxes and the placeholder on the boxes get moved.
(15:36):
But nobody ever came back to us to say, Hey, Margaret black girl in the ring.
This, the ring has been moved.
It moved across the street, and you need to move across the street with it.
That conversation doesn't happen for us at all.
So now we think we're ready.
(15:58):
We think we're absolutely ready for whatever movement we desire.
And the reality is we have been kept in the dark around the exact skills and competencies needed to move ahead.
No one intended to tell you about the exact skills and competencies needed to move ahead.
(16:21):
There wasn't that blueprint.
It was never going to be given to you.
And on top of that, there was never going to be a conversation with your manager to say, Hey, manager we are considering Margaret for this role, so we want you to give her some additional work that's gonna help her prepare for the role.
(16:44):
When it comes open, the manager conversation doesn't occur.
So if the manager doesn't know, Where you are supposed to be headed and you don't know what you need exactly to go there, that is where you get erased from the talent development process and it becomes now a mystery of how you grow and build your career.
(17:12):
So let me give you some data points because I think it's important to hear the data points lean in.
Who publishes the women in the Workplace report every year and every year, leanin does this whole report around women in the workplace, and when Leanin does the report, they give certain data points year after year after year.
(17:38):
And so I'm gonna read directly from the report.
It says, black women receiving less support from their managers.
Managers are less likely to advocate for black women.
This is not my report.
This is Lean In's report.
This is directly from Lean in.
(17:59):
Leanin says, women of color and black women in particular tend to receive less support and encouragement from their managers.
In fact, I'm adding this part.
In fact, what what they do to you as a black woman is frustrates you to the point where you give up trying to advance your career.
(18:22):
That is the the fact compared to white women, black women are less likely to have managers showcase their work, advocate for new opportunities for them, and give them the opportunity to manage people and projects, which will be their stretch assignments, right? Black women are also less likely to report.
(18:43):
Likely to report that their manager helps them navigate organizational politics or balance work life and personal life.
So we are not given the skills or tools or ability or, or support to navigate the organizational politics because here's what I know, no one gets promoted unless you jump over the organization.
(19:07):
Politics and the locus of power within the organization.
See, nobody gets that.
Normally, no one gets that process normally, right? No one gets that process.
And so what ends up happening is as black women, we get less support.
(19:31):
Now let me read you the Lean in statistics.
The, the data is my manager helps me navigate organizational politics.
Only 24% of black women said that was true.
My manager advocates for new opportunities for me, 29% versus our counterparts at 37%.
(19:56):
My manager gives me opportunities to manage people and projects.
36%.
My manager provides opportunities for me to showcase my work.
36%.
My manager helps me manage my career path.
22%.
I don't even think this is an adequate number.
(20:16):
This is 22% of the people who LinkedIn lean in surveyed because the majority of black women have no management of their career path inside of the organization.
They want us to not have the light.
This is the truth and.
(20:37):
The question was, I have sponsors needed to advance my career and only 24% of black women have sponsors.
The follow up question for me is, if you have a sponsor, has the sponsor allowed you to advocate or move your career forward? And I could tell you probably 40% of black women would say no.
The sponsor has not helped me do that.
(20:59):
The sponsor has been a great buffer for me, but the sponsor has not actually delivered on what it is that I need to move my career forward.
So this is the reality for black women, right? And I am going to actually try to share my screen because I wanna, I wanna do a lesson today.
(21:20):
So I'm hoping that everyone can see my screen.
Let me bring this in.
So this is a presentation that I do around talent.
And languaging talent when women are applying for a job and when men are applying for a job.
(21:45):
And when diverse candidates are applying for a job, whether you're applying for the job as a promotion, or you're applying for the job as a new entrant coming into the organization, we describe men as high performers, future leaders, trusted professionals.
That's how men are described when it comes to women.
(22:08):
We say effective leader, high potential woman, steady under pressure.
Okay.
But when it comes to black and brown employees, what we say is most qualified, most qualified, we still say most qualified.
(22:30):
Every time I'm in A D N I discussion about talent development, I get this conversation around most qualified.
But you don't give me what most qualified means.
So if you are sitting in an organization trying to move your career forward and what they're thinking is most qualified, then you're never going to move.
(22:58):
If what they're thinking is best employee and not future leader, you're never going to move because the thing is, in order for black women, And black men and brown men and brown women to move.
We have to not be seen as the best employee because here's the thing, ladies and gentlemen, black women, I'm talking to you directly.
(23:24):
I'm gonna look in the camera and talk to you.
If you are the best employee, you are not the future leader.
If they are languaging you as you are the best employee, you are the best at that skill.
You are the best at doing this.
You are the best here.
If they're languaging you as best employee best skills, you are not future leader.
(23:51):
What best employee and best skills means is you need to stay in the job you're in because if you, if you give you an opportunity to move out of the job you're in, we're gonna have to go train another best employee.
And we don't really wanna train another best employee, so you will never be a future leader.
So they will blow smoke up your ass.
(24:13):
And tell you that you're the best employee and you feel great about being the best employee, but you are not the future leader.
See, many of you want the validation of best employee.
Best employee is not the description of a future leader either.
You tell me that I'm a future leader, and your conversation with me includes the word future leader.
(24:39):
And you are demonstrating that you are going to make me a future leader.
Anything they're saying to you is a load of bull with Anness at the end.
This is what I want you guys to understand.
It's the languaging that is used to describe black women.
(25:00):
It is the languaging that is used that is telling us what they already think.
The challenges.
You guys don't wanna hear them.
They're languaging you.
And the one that kicks me right in my gut is the culture fit.
(25:20):
Or we want people who are culturally fit in our organization.
Culture fit doesn't exist because an organization we have gone around, let me pause.
We have gone around as HR people and we have picked up every single solid little buzz ass word out there in the planet, and we have put these little buzz ass words into things that mean something.
(25:47):
Sort of like I was having, I was having a discussion.
With Ingo, one of my consultants and business partners that work with me, and we were talking about attitude, and he says, I look for people's attitude.
I said, if you look for their attitude, you don't see their skills, you don't see their potential, you don't see their purpose.
(26:11):
You don't see them because all you're doing is looking for attitude and the reality.
The definition of attitude is subjective for black and brown people.
If somebody says she has a great work attitude, or I love her attitude about stuff, what they're saying is, you make me feel safe, and you are not an intimidated black person.
(26:34):
You are not intimidating me as a black person.
So I like your attitude because you're not intimidating me.
That's what they're saying to you.
That is it right there.
If they are saying, oh, I like your attitude, it's because they're not basically thinking about anything but that.
(26:56):
Right? So if.
You are struggling through trying to figure out how am I gonna move from point A to point B? Let me go deeper into languaging around how we language black women for men.
When an, when a male starts, a white male starts to work the requirements that are given to him before he's considered a leader.
(27:24):
A leader is.
Shorter than what's given to a ma, to a woman, right? So maybe an organization would say, this man communicates well.
He's got positive attitude.
He's got confidence.
He's building relationships.
He's good at teamwork.
He's a fast learner.
He's got analysis skills.
(27:44):
We're gonna make him a leader.
We're gonna make him leader right away.
We don't worry if he's adaptable or creative.
We don't worry about that because he's given us confidence and fast learner and teamwork, right? Even if it's self-serving teamwork.
This is the male me mental model and languaging used around male candidates.
(28:08):
Right? Now, imagine now for a second that a woman comes into the mix.
Not a diverse woman, but a woman comes into the mix.
Female talent comes into the mix.
What we'll say about her is communication, positive attitude, confidence, adaptability.
Suddenly adaptability gets moved down.
(28:31):
For a, for a white woman, it moves down the language moves right, then it becomes teamwork, fast learner analysis, skills, relationship, creativity, and if you hit all of those boxes before, then we will consider you for leadership.
See, this is the breakdown.
(28:53):
It's the languaging that is used to describe your process, and so many of you don't realize that you've been erased from the advancement timeline.
You've been erased based on the language they're using to describe you.
(29:17):
Based on the language they're using to describe you, the they're already languaging how they think.
They're already languaging it.
So now when it comes to a person of color, right? When it comes to a person of color, this is what I hear.
(29:43):
Excellent communication because first thing they wanna make sure of is that we can talk and chew gum and not be intimidating.
Positive attitude, right? Positive attitude.
Let me tell you what that definition of that means.
Positive attitude is you don't intimidate me.
(30:03):
You are a good, good black person.
I can deal with you on a daily basis.
And then they want you to be confident, but not overly confident, right? Not confident, where you are exuding confidence but confident and they want you to be adaptable.
What is adaptability when it comes to career development? Adaptability means that if I'm adaptable, that means you can hand me junk assignments and I won't really complain.
(30:38):
You can ask me to do things and I'll say, okay, I'll take that on.
Even though in the back of your mind, you're like swearing.
You know you're adaptable, right? You're adaptable, and then there's your teamwork.
You're team worker.
And you're a team player, right? And then you're a fast learner, and then you've got skills and expertise, but the language of leadership doesn't come next.
(31:15):
So I'm gonna silence that and I'm gonna ask the question, are you hearing the language of leadership from your organization? Listen out.
Go into your company tomorrow, Monday next week, next two weeks, next three weeks, and listen to how leaders are described in your organization.
(31:44):
Listen to how the person, the last person who got promoted is described in your organization.
Listen to that.
And hear that.
Hear the words that are being used to describe that person, and then ask yourself a simple question, are they describing me the same? That is the question.
(32:11):
Are they describing me the same? Because the mythical career ladder is not even at the career ladder.
It's in the view of you, are you being viewed as a leader? Are you being viewed as someone who is advanced who can advance and be successful? Is there a, but let me give you the, but Margaret is an amazing person.
(32:48):
She is phenomenal when it comes to her skills.
She's great at what she does.
I don't know how this team would exist without Margaret.
No idea how we would exist from day to day without Margaret.
Okay, that's it.
(33:10):
There's nothing else being said about you.
Nothing else.
The conversation ended.
You know why the conversation ended.
Because they cannot see your potential.
They can't see what's possible for you beyond right now.
They can't see it, and so they don't language it, right? So here is the assignment before my voice completely dies today, right? Here's the assignment.
(33:43):
I'm gonna keep doing this for Women's History Month.
I'm gonna talk about black women during Women's History month because this is about us, this sisterhood that we belong to, but here's the assignment for today.
What is the organization telling you about your career? What are they telling you? What is the language they're using to describe you? What is the exact language that they're using to describe you? Have you asked deeper? When somebody says you've got the, you've got great skills, have you said, do these skills get me ready for promotion? Have you asked the question when someone says to you in the organization, Margaret, you got great mad skills.
(34:41):
Have you said to them, What is this skill preparing me for? Have you said that? Have you asked that question? So here's the assignment, ladies, my black women, I want you to lift your head up from the desk immediately.
(35:05):
I want you to lift your head up from the desk, right? I want you to understand.
That if they are not telling you where you are going, if you cannot ask the question, what is this task job skill preparing me for, then you are not moving ahead.
(35:31):
You are not moving ahead.
You are not moving ahead.
You are sitting still in that spot.
And guess what? Everyone is comfortable with you sitting there.
So here is the assignment.
Let me get to it and my voice is going right.
(35:52):
I want you all to pull out a journal.
I want you to keep a career journal starting today.
The Career Journal needs to list the skills that you are acquiring.
I want you all over this weekend and next week till we come back on Friday, and hopefully I'll have a voice on Friday, right? When we come back on Friday.
(36:16):
I want all of you who are listening to me live, who are listening to the recording.
I want you to start a career journey, a journal on one side.
I want you to write the skills you have gained, the skills you are gaining.
The skills that you think you have.
On another side, I want you to write what you've accomplished in your role.
(36:37):
Every single solid accomplishment that you've had in your role.
I want you to write that down.
Solid, writing that down.
Okay? And then I want ask you to decide where you wanna go next.
And I want you to go look at the skills that are required for that position.
(36:59):
And put it in that Jo Journal as well, and I need you to line this up.
Are the skills you are gaining, preparing you to go where you want to go and if the skills you are gaining that you are proficient at, because here's the thing, black women, here's the thing, my sisters, here's the thing.
(37:19):
Most of you can do your job with your eyes closed.
You don't even need.
A reason to do the job.
You come in, the job is on rote.
Maybe something will come in and intervene that stops your day.
But the job and the process is on rote.
If you can close your eyes and do your job, you have outgrown the position you're in, and it's time for you to move up.
(37:44):
And if you cannot move up, sisters, move out because equity.
Is the theme of this Women's history Month, and we don't get equity by sitting solid in these jobs that are not willing to promote us.
Don't be loyal to the loyalist who will not be loyal to you.
(38:09):
Here's the thing, if they're gonna lay you off like they've been doing all this last couple of months, they're not gonna be loyal to you.
And if you don't build your skills so that it aligns so that you can take those skills somewhere else or move up where you are right now, you are missing your own opportunity.
(38:30):
And let me see the last thing to you cuz my voice is officially going.
Now, last thing to you ladies.
Your only job is managing your career.
Let me say that again.
Your only job is managing your career.
You don't have another job.
You work.
(38:51):
Work is not your job.
Work is your sustenance.
It is your apprentice.
It is your thing that you do, but your purpose in life is to manage your own life.
And managing your own life means that you manage your career.
If you manage your life, you manage your career, you don't depend on a job or a leader or an organization to tell you what your potential is.
(39:23):
You don't depend on them because the purpose that we are standing here on the shoulders and giants that we are standing on, all the people that walk slavery and Jim Crow and all the other crap that we've walked.
The, the people that walked all of that for us did not walk all of that for us to get complacent.
(39:45):
Now they walked that for us to be steadfast, resilient, but on purpose with our careers on purpose, black women on purpose with our career.
So get that journal, write your skills down, write 'em down.
(40:07):
Match 'em up is this skill I'm gaining, preparing me for anything other than a cute resume that I cannot get hired and I cannot get promoted.
And are they just blowing smoke up my behind by telling me I'm the best employee they could ever have? Don't be the best.
(40:29):
Be the future leader.
Don't be the best employee.
Be the future leader.
And if you wanna be the future leader, then you know that the only job you have is managing your career.
That's it.
Nothing else.
So my voice made it to the end of today.
(40:50):
I will be back next week.
Thank you, Gina, for your wonderful comments.
Thank you all that are joining live.
Thank you for listening to this.
But this month I want us as black women to tune into ourselves.
It's Women's History Month, but we have a history that we need to tell our history.
(41:14):
So thank you.
Join me next Friday and I hope to have a better voice by next Friday.
Take care.
Everyone have a great weekend.
You're like a circle that floats around me, keeping me safe and sound.
And when a fall you tied a rope to you've listen me day.
(41:39):
I was down with an illusion like a sparrow with broken wings.
But now shine will your reflection.
Thank you everyone.
Take care.
Have a good weekend.
And thank you for everyone who joined live.
Christina.
Thank you.
Great comment.
(41:59):
Thank you.
Thank you.
And Gina, thank you as well.
Again, take care.
Bye.
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