July 5, 2023 • 64 mins
In this thought-provoking episode of the Into The Storm Leaders podcast, host Joe Jurec engages in a conversation with Ron Kaminski, Certified EOS Implementer® and the founder of CultureShoc.
Join them as they discuss the inception of CultureShoc, the origin of Into The Storm, and the vision for the path forward. In addition to learning about Ron and the work he's done, they share things that have inspired and influenced them both, some wisdom for new and accomplished leaders, and insights around meaningful connections and healthy workplace cultures.
Tune in to gain valuable insights and better understanding of what to expect in the episodes to come.
We hope you'll subscribe and give us feedback on what you'd like to hear more of in future episodes!
Prefer to watch the video? Check it out at https://www.youtube.com/@cultureshoc/podcasts
Learn more about what we do at www.CultureShoc.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Into The Storm Leaders,the NO BS podcast that ignites
leadership potential and sparksinnovation in the ever evolving
business landscape we all work in.
I'm Joe Jurec, your hostand catalyst for growth.
Joined by my co-host and cultureshoc senior coach Pete Honsberger.
Together we embark on a journey touncover the strategies, mindsets, and
(00:22):
actions that drive truly exceptionalleadership and winning culture.
Whether you're an emerging leaderlooking to level up in your career
or an accomplished executive seekingfresh perspectives, join us as
we uncover inspiring stories andthought-provoking insights from proven
leaders and share practical takeawaysthat enable courageous leadership.
Get ready to charge into thestorm and become a catalyst
(00:43):
for better workplace culture.
Welcome listeners, to a foundationalepisode of Into the Storm
Leaders, featuring an interviewwith expert EOS implementer and.
Our founder, you're atCultureShoc, Ron Kaminski.
Thanks, Joe.
Excited to be here.
(01:04):
You put a lot of time intothis, uh, studio here.
Smells of rich mahogany.
Mm.
Leather bound books.
Leather bound books.
Well done.
Yeah, I, I'm excitedabout this one as well.
And we, we've been workingtowards this for a while.
Uh, listeners may have already heard,uh, an introductory episode from myself
(01:25):
and my co-host, Pete Hansberger, butthis is an idea you've had for a while,
and thank you for believing in usand empowering us to, to run with it.
But I, I'm excited to haveyou featured quite a bit.
Right.
And while listeners are gonna hear Peteand I on a regular basis, they're probably
gonna be pretty familiar with you aswell as you, you share some insights.
(01:49):
So can you tell us just before weget into exa, I have some questions
I want to ask you, and I, I thinkour listeners will benefit from it.
Uh, But kind of talk about the start,you're a founder, you started Culture
Shock in 2014, and that's about allI'll say about it cuz I, I'd love, uh,
for you to talk about kinda the ideahow you started that journey and what
(02:10):
inspired you to embark on the missionof discovering, engaging and growing
leaders, which is the only place today.
Yeah.
Um, happy to share, you know, this,this business actually truly started
in oh three 2003 and, um, I cameout of, uh, college right before Y2K
(02:33):
in 99 and went right into helpingcompanies implement e r P systems.
And, you know, to be honest, I watcheda lot of dysfunctional implementation
teams, um, just make things morecomplex than they needed to be.
(02:53):
Um, a lot of egos in the room.
And, uh, if anyone's been a partof a software implementation, we
know it, it takes twice as long,it costs three times as much.
But I, I think that there is a,there, I always thought there was a
better way and, uh, kind of reallydiscovered that I wasn't all that
passionate about the software solutions.
I was passionate about the teamdynamics associated with, uh,
(03:18):
organizations that were looking tochange things in their business.
And everyone knows the termsaround change management.
Um, and so pair that with being exposedto some world class athletic teams, um,
that I grew up around and in, and then,um, you know, some not so great teams.
(03:42):
And to watch the dichotomy of greatleaders on both fronts and to be
leaders in some of those teams was, uh,Was something that always fascinated
me, inspired me, and, um, I thinkthat's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
Yeah.
So 2014, you're right.
We spun, we spun off Cultureshock, CultureShoc into its
(04:03):
current form, and um, it's justbeen a rocket ship ever since.
I'm glad you did To know Right.
And that we met, uh, a year and a halfor so ago and it, I, I'm the newest
member of the team or one of the newestmembers of the team at CultureShoc.
I can tell you, you introduced me to the,into the Storm mindset that this podcast
(04:26):
is based around, that our programs arebased around, and I I've seen firsthand
how impactful it can be, the connectionbetween CultureShoc and kind of its
origin and the Buffalo and into the Storm.
Listeners might have heard itfrom, from Pete and I, but.
(04:47):
I really liked your take on theinception of it and, and what it
means to you, why it's been such animportant piece of this business.
Sure.
Yeah.
I'll be honest.
I found this, um, story, itwas first shared with me,
um, right around 2010, 2011.
(05:10):
I was actually at a leadership conferencein Athens, Greece for an organization
called EO Entrepreneurs Organization.
And I was on, it was a globalleadership conference and I was
training to be a, a board memberfor our chapter and, and region.
And, uh, this story was brought tome in a breakout session facilitated
(05:33):
by a professor, uh, at a universityin Spain talking about an American.
Indian tribal story, right?
Buffalo's charging into the storm.
And as soon as I heard that, I, it wasclear as day, this is what we have been
(05:55):
helping our clients do since oh three.
It's what I want to continue to helpour, our clients do, um, going forward.
And I think we're really good at it.
And so that concept of making excitingforward facing decisions as opposed
to fear-based decisions and knowingthat we have to go through some storms
(06:16):
in order to get to the other side,um, that's always been something I
think, um, tried to handle head onin my personal life and in business.
And then, um, I am inspired when Iwatch other leaders do the same thing.
So that's where it came from.
So, I don't pretend to own a story,you know, analogy, et cetera.
(06:39):
You didn't create buffalo.
Sure, yeah.
They are delicious, Dan.
I do consume them.
Um, it's more bison, but um, forthose high fact finders out there,
people will make it very clear.
Are, are very clear to point out that, um,the American buffalo is actually extinct.
That being said, um, uh, so everythingthat looks like a buffalo, that we call
(07:03):
a buffalo right now is really bison.
That, that came from several high factfinders that have pointed out to me daily.
Um, it's come up to me quitea few times as well, right.
Uh, but who's gonna let detailsget in the, in the way of a
great story or an analogy?
So to be fair too, I, I was in Denver acouple weeks ago for an event that I was
(07:24):
facilitating and went to this wildlifepreservation with bison and there were
signs up all over the place for Buffalo.
So if even the preservation,uh, is tomato to tomato.
Yeah.
You get it?
Yep.
Uh, you mentioned how it, it not onlyinspires you, we've helped clients charge
(07:45):
into their storms, embody that courageousleadership and recognize it in the moment.
I think that's part of the trick, right?
Is being it mindful enough to see,oh, this is one of those opportunities
to take the little bit more painfulat times or uncomfortable path,
knowing it'll get to a better outcome.
(08:06):
What are the most notableones for you and your journey?
Whether they relate toCultureShoc or not?
That's something we, we wanna accomplishin this podcast all the time, is helping
inspire others by talking with successfulbusiness leaders and entrepreneurs, and
having them share times that they'vecharged into storms successfully.
(08:27):
You've got a few, I'm sure.
What, what comes to mind?
Probably the biggest storm mostentrepreneurs can relate to is the,
um, the financial crisis in oh 8, 0 9,and literally being within weeks of,
of watching, of, of, of having, havingto shut the doors on the business
and, um, didn't have to do that.
(08:50):
Um, had to deal with some, makesome really tough decisions in
order to get through that survivethat we are way better off for it.
Um, it was very humbling, um, butit's a lesson I'll never forget.
Um, a lot of good entrepreneurslost really great businesses in
(09:13):
that, um, in that, uh, crisis.
Um, just like y2k, just like C O V I D.
Um, those experiences kindof hopefully stick with you.
I think we've done a good jobof kind of curating our, um,
lessons learned in our vision.
(09:35):
So for instance, we went into thatcrisis, um, with about 60% of our business
being tied to financial institutions.
And we all know what happenedwith financial institutions
and oh 8, 0 9, right?
Um, now we're very intentional thatno clients more than 5% of total
(09:56):
revenue here at CultureShoc.
And so no industry and noindustry is more than 10%.
So, so we've been very intentionalabout that and that diversification
lesson was really hard earned.
Um, uh, but it's somethingI'll never forget.
And, um, you know, another one was covid.
We are in the business of facilitatingin-person, uh, team and leadership.
(10:23):
Um, Sessions for our clientsleadership development sessions,
uh, strategic planning.
Um, and so to go from a hundred milesan hour to zero overnight and having to
pivot, um, we kind of took the approachof, hey, we can either survive this
(10:46):
downturn, uh, in going virtual, or wecan become world class and being able
to facilitate in a virtual environment.
And so that was another great exampleof the storms we charged into.
Um, plenty of, plenty of storms in thepersonal life, but I would say, you know,
(11:06):
the biggest challenge, uh, I think a lotof people can relate to is just trying to
be a great parent in tough times, right?
During covid for your children.
Uh, you know, you're, I think it's true.
You're only as happy asyour most miserable child.
And so sometimes your kids are goingthrough it and, um, and uh, I can
(11:27):
certainly continue to try to evolveas a parent, but, you know, I think,
I think we've gotta be, one of thethings I also like about the way we
approach this, and I think it's beenintentional, is recognizing people
are, we're, we're all human beings.
This is not a nine to five or seven toseven type of an approach to people.
(11:50):
We take a 24 7, 365 approach to, to,um, the way we look at leadership
development and the way we hopelytreat people here as, as team members.
And, um, you know, sometimes peopleare going through something personally
and it's affecting business orit's going through something in the
business and it's affecting personal.
So, so we don't pretend to think that,you know, people can compartmentalize
(12:15):
and not have those affect each other.
Yeah.
Well, There's a lot there.
And I'll tell you the something thatI, I felt and heard in each one of
those instances and that I, I've seenit so much here, is that intentional,
um, the, the decision to be moreintentional and whether it was C O I
(12:39):
D or some of the other challenges thatyou face, I think so often people just
kinda let it happen and roll with it.
And I, I've, I think that'sa big component of, into the
storm it has been for me.
And you've, you and the team here.
I know you always saywe eat our own dog food.
Uh, I, it was the first time I heardthat when was outta your mouth.
(13:01):
But, uh, e even we advertise ourprinciples through our actions truly.
And that pausing being more, uh, mindful,intentional, uh, disciplined around.
Addressing the reality of asituation and making a decision
about how you're gonna chart forward.
Uh, I, I think a lot of people can relateto that and quite frankly, outta covid
(13:26):
it, that's a big positive benefit that I,I think a lot of people took from it in
conversations I've had with them, whetherit be parenting or, uh, their business,
or just realizing I, I'm not spending mytime how I want to, I'm not getting what
I want outta my business or outta my time.
Sure.
Right?
Sure.
(13:46):
So let, let's, before we move on from itthough, let, let me talk about the flip
side of those into the storm realizations.
What about, has there been a time thatyou realized after you didn't charge into
the storm on something and you probablyshould have, and you thought to yourself,
(14:06):
man, if I'd only dealt with that sooner,it would've been a whole lot easier.
Is there anything there thatcomes to mind for you too?
I mean, we are, of course,there's, there's plenty of them.
And um, you know, I think thefirst one that comes to mind
that I think every leader can,um, relate to is people issues.
(14:28):
Yeah.
You know, when we have, when we in our gutknow we have a people issue, it is very
easy to kick the can down the road on thatbecause that's difficult conversation.
Oh, I can do that next week.
Um, uh, and so that can easily, thatkicking the can can easily become
(14:49):
habitual, especially when you'redealing with, uh, people and you know,
I think to, um, no company out thereis ever gonna be batting a thousand on.
They make a higher rightperson, right seat every time.
It's not gonna happen.
That includes us.
(15:09):
Um, I.
That doesn't make any of those people,that didn't work out for CultureShoc.
Um, bad people.
They just weren't right fit for us.
Yeah.
And we wanted to find a place,find a way for them to succeed
even if it wasn't in here.
And um, and so I think everyonecan relate to the idea of
(15:32):
procrastinating on people issues inour personal lives and in business.
Right.
Um, how long have we keptrelationships going with people
that were pretty toxic for us.
Right.
And I think so that's true for, um, that'strue for most of the entrepreneurs I know.
And, uh, I've yet to find one whenI ask them to get really open and
(15:56):
honest with me about Have you everreally had to part ways with someone?
Not because we had to downsize.
Right.
Um, but because we had to let someonego cuz they were wrong person, um, and
regretted it and to the person, I don't,I've yet to find an entrepreneurial
(16:19):
leader that says, you know what?
In my heart of hearts, I thoughtthat was the wrong person.
I had to let 'em go.
I did.
And quite honestly, I regret it.
I haven't found that person yet.
So the data's telling me that,uh, there's a lot of us out there
procrastinating, especially on peopleissues and tough conversations.
And if there's anything we're really goodat that, um, we are absolute students
(16:44):
of is to find better and better ways ofhaving those tough conversations because
we genuinely care for those peopleand we wanna be great leaders for 'em.
Boy, that, that one, thatone resonates for me.
I, I learned it the hard way.
Of and, and recognized after that I hadn'tcharged into the storm, that I kicked the
(17:09):
can down the road, held onto a toxic topperformer for far too long out of fear
thinking our business was hinge to it.
Right.
And for me, that was one of the mostvalidating things that, that trust
my body, trust my instincts, becausewhen we did art ways, people almost
(17:31):
came out of the woodwork stepped upthat I would've never expected to.
Sure.
And there were new levels of teamperformance that we're, we're far greater
than we were used to, we're accustomed to.
Right.
It, it's, it's crazy how simple things canbe, but how difficult they can also Yeah.
Simple doesn't mean easy.
Right, right.
(17:52):
Uh, I, I've heard thatquite a bit and I, I agree.
The other thing before we move on thatyou hit on and I wanna call attention
to, is the, We do care about people.
It's not that, you know, quiet,quitting does go both ways.
I, I've heard this where it, youknow, management teams or leaders
(18:13):
in general, they also have atendency of writing someone off.
Right.
If they've any given up on them.
And rather than addressing itdirectly or asking the right questions
through curiosity to find out why,just kinda let it run its course.
Even though you can tell that person'snot the right person, not the right fit.
(18:35):
Right.
And probably not happy.
Right.
So when you talk about somebody movingon, is there a, a kind way to do it?
Is there a, a, a service that you canoffer that person as well through like the
conversation you have with them to help'em figure out what they really wanna do?
Like what, if any, experiencehave you had there?
(18:55):
Uh, well I think it comes,it's gotta come from a mindset.
Sure, there's a ton of techniques we canhelp deploy and we can talk into those.
But I think the mindset's most importantif we genuinely care for someone, um,
if it's gotten to a point where I feellike I have to have a tough conversation
(19:16):
with someone, the chances that they arealso unhappy and not feeling like they're
excelling and not feeling in a right spotand not feeling inspired or, or tied to
a vision that aligns with them, uh, Ihave yet to find someone that when that
(19:36):
gut feeling is present here, it's alsopresent on the other side of the tape.
Right?
Right.
And so, um, it kind of goes to, ifI think it, I have to say it now,
that doesn't mean I say thingswithout filter or without, um,
without care for, for someone else's.
Um, Livelihood and wellbeing, et cetera.
(19:59):
Of course, I certainly, butI certainly owe it to open
my mouth to that individual.
And so if I, if I can just get quiet,listen to myself, um, in your heart of
hearts, you know, and they know thisis right, fit or this isn't right.
Right.
(20:19):
So, um, that hasn't steered me wrong.
I, I would say when I listen, yeah.
It's when I don't listen, um, that we gothrough more pain than I think we need to.
Boy, and that's on both sides.
Yeah.
So huge difference betweenlistening to comprehend, listening
(20:41):
to respond, active listening.
We're waiting to speak.
We'll talk more about that at length,I'm sure in future episodes and such.
But I've had that same experience whenI had somebody that I knew wasn't a
fit when I did have that conversation.
So often it was mutual and it's the,the times that I've actually terminated
(21:02):
that person are actually quite low.
But when it comes from a place of careand directness and being willing to lead
and help that person think through where,where, what do you really enjoy doing?
What's the reason, uh, that, that we'reseeing some of these things and, and
(21:22):
they may not have had somebody in theirlife to help them be more intentional
and, and set some goals and milestonesthat align work with their strengths.
It often ends up being a, a betterrelationship that yes, it can
lead to that person moving on.
And I, I've tried to offer even support,like in, in guiding them, connecting with
(21:45):
a recruiter and really showing that it,it is not leaving things off on a bad
foot, but it, it's kind of remarkable and.
Not what you would expect that comesout of those conversations, right?
That if you help people realize,hey, this might not be the place,
but let's figure out what that is.
And they end up being happier too, right?
(22:06):
Like tho those are the, that's thehealthy churn, the healthy turnover
that I think we all hope to achieve.
And it's within grass.
We just often won'thave that conversation.
Cause we think it's gonnacome off negative though.
Right.
Very true.
Uh, so let, let's talk more about the,the creation of, into the storm leaders.
Th this podcast.
(22:27):
Mm-hmm.
We've got some of the backgroundon CultureShoc how we
started, how we got here.
But just in the, the past year or so sincesome of these ideas started to, to form
for you, uh, and you, you know, enrolledPete and I to be, you know, some decision
makers as well and, and to create thevision for this alongside CultureShoc.
(22:51):
Let's share with the listenersyour, your perspective on that.
So into the storm leaders,what's your vision for it?
What do you hope that our listenerscan take from this and like
what, why are they listening?
Why would they tune in and Sure subscribe?
Well, I think ultimatelythe audience is twofold.
(23:13):
One is, um, the entrepreneurs and theirleadership teams that we're working with.
So we're inside of well over a hundredorganizations and we are, we see almost
to the organization the challenge thatthese companies face on the gap they
(23:37):
have between their emerging leaders,middle managers, high potentials.
And the, um, and executive leadership, andeven some of the, some of these leaders
on these leadership teams are stillstruggling with development because it
might have grown up in the organizationand now they're leading some peers.
And that's a tough transition for anybody.
(24:00):
But what we have found is that allof these companies are concerned
with and focused on trying tosolve for sustainability and
succession in key positions inthose, in those organizations.
And so we feel pretty strongly that thereis a, there is a group of soft skills that
(24:25):
have to be absorbed by high potential andemerging leaders, uh, and mid mid managers
in order to close that skillset gapneeded, um, if they're really gonna play
a successful role in their organization.
So certainly we think that, I think that.
Entrepreneurs and their leadership teamsare, you know, can be tuning in to kind of
(24:48):
hear about how we best go and grab them,engage them, and develop them, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, even identifying.
And two is that high potentialemerging leader, middle manager,
supervisor that really wants tobe a leader in an organization.
(25:09):
Um, and by the way, our version,our, our definition of leader is
different than the formal title, right?
Anyone can lead in an organization.
That being said, if I, if I want tobe leading other people, other human
beings, um, that is something that I,I think some people do for the right
(25:33):
reasons, and some people do for thewrong reasons, and, Ego for me and, and
a title that, I'm not saying those arewrong reasons completely, but that's
some of sometimes a driving motivator.
I kind of have that, have that businesscard, have that title, um, be the boss
(25:55):
so to speak as, uh, Renee Bore would say.
Um, I think the best leaders, some of thebest leaders I've ever watched operate
inside of a business or a team are humble,are soft spoken, uh, they care deeply
about their people and they want to mastertheir craft of leading those individuals
(26:20):
and are being very intentional abouttrying to work on their own development.
And so if you want to be able toprovide another human being, peak
leadership experience, we think we have.
We've been students of it for 20 years.
So we think we have certainly acurriculum that can help get people there.
(26:42):
And so I think sharing some ofthose nuggets and trying to, uh,
kind of just give that away ispart of the vision there too.
So I think there's two types ofaudiences we're trying to play to,
or, you know, support with this,with this effort of, uh, its leaders,
podcasts and the its leaders program.
Um, but for sure, I, I think there'san equation of its leaders plus its
(27:05):
teams equals in its culture and intothe storm culture for an organization.
And so, um, we've gotta startwith the individuals though.
Yeah.
And, and that's, that's reallywhere our focus is with its leaders.
And, uh, I I wanna talk moreabout culture and the connection
between leaders and, and culture.
(27:25):
Before we do though, When fortho for those two listeners,
right, for the emerging leaders.
And, and I, I agree.
I've seen it, I've lived it.
There's a lot of managers whoweren't necessarily put into
managerial roles because of theirleadership ability or, uh, their
affinity towards strong leadership.
(27:48):
And I get it.
It, it's so often if there's not ahigh performer, individual contributor
track, that's the only way for peopleto advance the livelihood and wellbeing,
their position, their financialstanding for so many things, right?
Aside from just title and egoand, and that, that piece of it.
(28:11):
But I think people, most of them havethe potential to become great leaders
and want to, they've just not necessarilybeen exposed to the right tools, mindsets.
Mentors or maybe they gotexposed to 'em, but those people
didn't have the capacity Right.
To invest the time.
(28:31):
Right.
Right.
And, and, and so here's, here's somethingwe often charge our emerging leaders or,
uh, that engage in its leaders programwith who in your life has provided
you with a peak leadership experience?
Like when you can look back tothem and say, wow, that is the best
(28:53):
exposure I've had to a genuine leader,be a coach, teacher, parents, aunt,
uncle, someone who left their mark.
Doesn't matter.
Right.
An influences you boss, whatever.
Um, and what were the characteristicsof that relationship with you?
Well, I can tell you after asking thatquestion over a thousand times, um, to
(29:18):
groups of leaders, The characteristicsare, they had higher expectations
of me than I ever had of myself.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, it, we achieved more than we everthought we could individually as a team.
Um, they weren't easy on us, right?
They, uh, they didn't allow for excuses.
(29:40):
Uh, they called us on ourbs, all of those things.
And yet knowing that that's what wecorrelate with a great and peak leadership
experience in our life, yet we hold backon having high expectations for people
cuz I'm, um, I can't have them quit.
(30:01):
Right?
It's a tough talent market tofind people and retain them.
Um, you know, so, so yet we hold backon those things, but after we ask them
to get real about what that, what thatlooked like for them, Um, they start
to recognize it, ah, this might be apath where I can actually intentionally
provide this experience for someone else.
(30:23):
And so that's what we're trying tohelp, uh, people do, is if that is
part of your vision of, um, then,then we think we've got a path there.
I'm not saying it's the only path, right?
We, we think we've got a path there.
So, um, that's part of that vision.
(30:44):
And I've had some exposures to justamazing leadership experiences in my life.
And then I've had some not sogreat exposures shared with me and
I've learned from both of them.
So my guess is most of the peoplethat would be interested in listening
to this podcast and taking in thatcontent, those individuals are trying to
(31:07):
provide that, that experience for other.
Yeah.
Personally and professionallydoesn't need to just be in
the four walls of a business.
I was with a group yesterday,grand Rapids for Planet Fitness.
It was all their club managers and wetalked about peak leadership experience
and slowed it down and paused for a momentand said, now I want you to really think
(31:28):
about how many people would say thatyou are there, be leader, ex experience.
Who have you had thatlevel of influence on?
Right.
And now let's talk about whatit's gonna take to get there.
Mm-hmm.
And you, you touched on what I feelto be one of the, the largest skillset
(31:50):
gaps or, or just areas of discomfort andfear for new managers for first time.
Heck, mid mid-career managersand some senior leaders are
the tough conversations.
The.
Finding a way to blend not justcaring and being compassionate.
(32:10):
I think most people do genuinely careabout their team and people, but confuse
the way that they can show that mosteffectively with being too soft or
pulling punches, not being direct,not giving that direct criticism.
And when you're talking about peakleadership being, being challenged,
(32:32):
somebody having high standardsfor you, pushing you beyond where
you would've gotten on your own.
I've, I've seen that and that's been oneof the most gratifying parts of my time
with CultureShoc, is that our programsfor Into the Storm Leaders trust, uh, or
establish authentic trust, real simplecommunication and positive accountability,
(32:56):
the way that those blend together.
Yeah.
Do you agree that that has been,In, in your experience, one of,
if not the biggest hurdles toclimb that defines a good leader?
A hundred percent.
I mean, think about it this way.
(33:18):
We call it positive accountability herebecause if you and I talk about what you
need to be doing for you to be great,to truly live your own vision, and then
I don't hold you accountable to that.
I am doing you a massive disservice.
(33:38):
Yeah.
On the flip side of that, um, a lot ofus view this accountability as this thing
that I'm gonna impose on somebody else.
Right.
I'm gonna hold you accountable.
And I think that's the furthest thingfrom what real accountability looks like.
(33:58):
It's the perception.
Sure.
It's the, for a lot of mutual is why.
I'm not comfortable doing this, right.
Well, that's not what we thinkpositive accountability is.
Let's let's have an open and honestdialogue about what you want for
your life and your, your futureand your role and your experience.
(34:18):
And let's go hold each otheraccountable to that and the
roles we both need to play.
So, um, that's where positive comes.
It's probably the biggest gift we can giveis holding them accountable to mission.
And you can hear it, but until youexperience it yourself, then it, it takes
(34:41):
that mindset, that realization, right?
That it is truly a disservice.
If we care enough about somebody,it's our responsibility to Right.
Hold them accountable.
I, there's a difference between comfortwith having comfort with conflict and,
uh, Effect and skillful conflict, right?
(35:03):
I don't know a whole lot of people thatare incredibly comfortable with conflict.
Certainly there are some out there.
Um, get a thrill from it.
Who, who just, that's their thing, right?
And then they leverage that withpeople around them cuz they sense
a less comfort with that conflict.
That's not what we're talking about here.
(35:24):
I, we recognize that most peopleare uncomfortable with it.
This is, uh, fight or flight.
This is in our limbic brains, right?
This is how we're wired as human beingsbecause it's life or death conflict.
Our brain doesn't know that I'm notbeing chased by a tiger when I'm just
sitting here trying to have a toughconversation with you because you're
(35:45):
not meeting your own expectations.
It's the same response.
Internally.
Internally, same response.
So to us, it's life or death.
Internally.
Reigns don't really.
Understand that difference.
And so if we can just chargeinto that storm, what if we only
need to be brave enough for 30seconds to say, you know what?
(36:09):
This makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
I care deeply about you and youknow, you're not putting everything
into this like you had committed to.
What's going on?
Yeah.
How can I help?
So to kind of round things out, talkingabout positive accountability, there's
one other thing I wanna share, and Idon't even think we've talked about this
yet, but one of our, one of my coachingclients, we started working together
(36:35):
because ha was told he didn't reallyhold his team accountable or need to do a
better job of doing so, but he had desire.
We don't coach people who,uh, for disciplinary reasons
or something like that.
It, it's when they want to unlock.
Potential and get to the next year.
And he, he truly did.
(36:57):
We'd gone through some of our tools, we'dtalked trust, effective communication,
introduced to some of these differentprinciples that we've curated and created.
And he told me the other day,like, so positive accountability.
It's kind of an equation.
I see how these fit together, where ifI'm intentional about building trust and
(37:20):
I've made that clear, I've set honestexpectations and asked for them in return,
then gotten a commitment on what thatlooks like if one of us is falling short.
And then when I go to have anaccountability conversation or hold
somebody accountable, I make sure toget my heart and mind right, to remember
(37:45):
that it is a service to rememberthat we've mutually agreed to this.
When I actually deliver that message,I do so with curiosity or by being
more interested than interesting and Ideliver it, or my positioning of things
is a combination of being compassionateand challenging, directly being direct.
(38:12):
So he fit together a lot of thedifferent things that we had talked
about into this flow that he wasable to then set as kind of the
standard expectation with his people.
I was like, you, you kinda openedmy eyes to just a, a way to look at
that, that positive accountability isan equation of these crucial steps.
(38:33):
You can't jump straight to accountabilityand expect it to be well received.
Right.
E, even if there is compassion andcare, it takes hard work to get there.
Sure.
By, by by.
Sounds like he's got a great coach.
I, I was pretty happy with the outcome.
Uh, and I, I actually, I'vesince used it when explaining it.
(38:55):
Cause I think it's, uh, a way thatpeople can understand that there's just
a simple, simple but not easy process.
Well, you just brought up somethingthat I want to touch on as part of
the expectation of the podcast becauseI'm not sitting here and I don't
think you or Pete or I, any of us aresitting here thinking we're experts on
(39:18):
culture, we're experts on leadership,we're experts on, uh, on any of that.
We're students of it.
Totally.
And so part of the reasonfor the podcast is selfish.
Um, I know I have some clientsthat we wanna highlight their
stories of how they've chargedinto storms in their organizations.
(39:41):
For sure.
Uh, I think.
The audience will see themself ina lot of those stories and, and
quite frankly, in, you know, theirlessons learned from those stories.
And selfishly, I still want tocontinue to, to learn and grow.
And so part of this was just, uh, aselfish pursuit to say, Hey, how can
(40:04):
we get some really smart, inspirationalleaders in this room sharing,
you know, war stories essentiallyabout, uh, charging into the storm.
And, um, as you can imagine, beinginside of a hundred plus organizations,
um, and having worked with as anorganization, we've worked with over
(40:24):
30,000 unique leaders that we'vehad a positive and direct impact on.
The impact that they'vehad on us is immeasurable.
And so, I'm being honest,some of this is selfish.
So, Um, you sure You call what it is?
I I, yeah.
I feel the same way.
Like, we're influenced by so manythings, whether it be a, a book or
(40:46):
a podcast or a, a conversation thatwe have and we've had this fortunate
advantage that we do wanna share, right.
Of coming into contactwith some incredible Right.
Humans that, and leaders, uh, evenjust in the time that, that I've
been here because we're in differentindustries and in this intimate
setting where we're really helpingpeople get more outta what they Sure.
(41:09):
More of what they want outta the business.
So how do you think, uh,when we're talking about the
podcast evolution, right?
We're, we're in the formative stages,uh, of recording and I, we're not just
students of leadership, like we're,we're students of this stuff too.
We're figuring this, figuringthis out right as we go.
I'm surely gonna fall on myjob, make up as we go along.
(41:32):
We'll give you someentertainment as well, when.
You know, a light falls on us one day,or, you know, we butcher something.
We're all right with that humbleconfidence, vulnerability.
We'll mess it up, we'll get better,we'll learn other than just it being
a better, uh, finished product and,uh, something that, that we get
(41:55):
more confident and comfortable in.
How do you see it evolving?
Like if things go the the way that wewant and potentially even better if people
do get the value that we are pretty surethey, they can and should, from this sort
of sharing, how could this thing takeoff or, or expand into more of a herd?
(42:19):
Sure.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, you just touched on it a herd.
I mean, that's, I think that's whatwe're trying to be intentional about.
So when we, uh, L relaunchedCultureShoc in its current form.
2014, we set a, uh, core targetof having a direct and positive
(42:42):
impact on 108,975 leaders.
It's a specific number, very specific.
At the time, it was the largestattendance ever at the shoe, the
Ohio State Stadium, not in Columbus.
And we imagined an entire stadium filledwith leaders that we've had a direct and
(43:06):
positive impact on their words, not ours.
Right?
And so to this, to date, we'vehad about 30,000 plus unique
leaders in that stadium.
And if every one of those leaders is,uh, leading about 10 other people,
we've had an indirect and positiveimpact on about a million people.
(43:28):
So I think about, you know, our team, ourcollective team here, CultureShoc as,
as kind of as a, as a little herd, right?
Family inside of the herd.
And then we think about the leaderswe've had a direct positive impact on.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the larger herd and then,and then the herd of the herd, right?
(43:50):
And so this whole idea of just tryingto, um, find, engage, grow like-minded,
um, people, um, by sharing best practiceswith each other in an environment where
(44:13):
our guard is down and we are open andopen-minded to the idea that the way
I'm doing it might not be the best way.
And quite honestly, we'regonna continue to hone our,
our content and our curriculum.
Based on what we're learning,and that's never gonna stop.
And so, um, I just envision having apretty positive impact on our customers,
(44:39):
our region, um, and those leadersthat get exposed to, to what we do.
And so why wouldn't we want tointentionally and exponentially
grow that, um, that exposure?
And I think this is agreat, great way to do that.
I tend to agree, Ron, uh, trulylike into the storm, the buffalo
(45:01):
or technically bison mindset.
It, it's, it's powerful.
I've seen it.
I've, I've felt it and the like,it, it's an honor to get to
more, expose more people to it.
It's simple.
It, it resonates and sticks andthat's what matters most because
then in the times where you are,In the challenging the situation.
(45:23):
You, you think back to your training,you think back to your tools, you
think back to what's simple and stickswhen Last thing there, there's, we
talk about our uniques and what I,I've truly experienced in other, what,
what someone perceived as competitors.
I know we have an abundance mindsetwhere if we're not the best fit, we're,
(45:47):
we're gonna tell you and we're, we'rehappy to introduce you to somebody
else who, who might be a better fit.
But the more professor led classroomstyle curriculum, like where, where
I've seen it and heard feedback is how,cause we're always evolving because the
world's changed dramatically and we'recontinuing to kind of iterate that that's
(46:10):
something different that people relate to.
Right.
That, that I'm excited to share.
I think that's, I've observed thisshift when it comes to workplace culture
becoming a, a bigger emphasis and therebeing that more authenticity, true
self as a large component of that.
(46:33):
Let's connect these two, cause we'retalking about the development of
emerging leaders, first time managers.
The secondary benefit of this podcastbeing for the executives who, you
know, want, want to keep theirperspective short, wanna keep pulse
of changes and I think the, theculture aspect of what we do and what
we set out to achieve with this isprobably gonna be largely beneficial.
(46:57):
If I'm thinking about, you know,when, when I ran a company or
when an an executive who's been inplace for a while wants to continue
to level up their awareness.
So what's the connection?
Our name's CultureShoc, rightinto the storm is a big part of it.
We're talking leaders, we'retalking strategic planning.
Where does the culture piece fit in?
(47:18):
Yeah, so we work exclusively withentrepreneurial, uh, led organizations
that are hitting the ceilings.
There's some frustrations in therebecause they're hitting ceilings and they,
they're, they want help breaking through.
They're, they're obsessedwith wanting to grow.
(47:38):
Um, and growth comes in many forms, right?
Top line revenue, bottom line,um, internal growth, et cetera.
So I s where this came from in largepart was we saw a gap and we're
(48:00):
trying to intentionally add valueand fill that gap with its leaders.
And I think that there is a placefor, and certainly a need for.
The universities of the worldto be developing not just young
people, but people in general.
Uh, great example.
(48:21):
We wouldn't have appreciative inquiryas a philosophy and a methodology
without case Western Reserve and,and it's author Cooperrider, right?
And so you're in Cleveland.
That being said, very proud.
That being said, um, I think there issomething to be said for, uh, taking a
(48:47):
group of entrepreneurial leaders insideof an organization or cross-functionally
across multiple organizations andexposing them to, um, the curriculum
we've developed over the last 20years that we've learned firsthand.
Works in these, these size organizationsthat we're working with, the small
(49:10):
to mid-size and even some of the,um, some of the larger organizations.
So they can actually grow up together,establishing a authentic trust
with each other, with each othercross-functionally as they grow up in
their organization or they grow up intheir organizations together, getting
(49:33):
them speaking the same language versusI send this individual over here to
this, uh, school for a certification.
This one does an online training,this one is doing something else.
All those are great things and we thinkneeds to continue, but how do we get them
actually talking the same language aroundwhat great leadership looks like, um, and
(49:56):
how do we get them actually solving realissues in their businesses as opposed
to just esoterically talking about.
Philosophy, uh, leadership philosophy.
And so we think, uh, we've found, uh,certainly a, you know, our clients
(50:17):
have told us that they have thisneed and that's why we've developed
the curriculum we have, right?
And so we're cer certainly excitedto share that, um, value everyone
that's contributed to that, um,uh, and are not blind to the idea
that we don't have all the answers.
(50:40):
This is just a path in order to beable to intentionally provide a peak
leadership experience for someone else.
For sure.
Not the only one, right?
So, and you're, you're the, in my eyes,one of the kings of simplification.
We always talk about simplify.
Is it fair to say take a page outta your,but as goes, the leader goes the culture.
(51:04):
Sure.
Uh, and Gino will say, as goes, theleadership team, Gino Wickman, by the
way, of eos, uh, we haven't talkedspecifically about EOS much yet
today, but we'll have time for that.
We'll have time, we'll haveplenty of time for that.
But as goes, the leadership team,so goes the entire organization.
And so to the extent that that team can behealthy, open, honest, vulnerable, talking
(51:27):
about the real issues, we're not sittingon them for a day or a week or a month or
a year in some family businesses a decade.
Um, and so, uh, yes, absolutelyit starts with those leaders.
And, uh, I think we, most people listeningcan attest that we probably need, we need
(51:49):
more of those types of leaders, right?
There's, there's certainly, wedon't have abundance in that area.
Um, It is not an issue says mostof our companies are still sitting
with open positions, right?
And so, um, if we can fill thosefrom within all the better, right?
If we can develop people internally inour organizations and give them a path
(52:14):
inside of those organizations that says,Hey, this is how you continue to add
more and more value to this organizationif you have these skill sets, right?
And if we can help close someof those gaps and help these
people become the leaders thatthey want to, um, everyone wins.
(52:34):
No doubt.
I, I'm sure I told you this,uh, when we first met, we, we
talked for a while to make sure,again, right person, right seat.
But one of the biggest motivatingfactors for me and why I, I love
this, like the impact that I wannamake, stems from my own experience.
(52:55):
Experiences shape our beliefs.
And I, I believe that everybodydeserves to know what it feels like
to work at a healthy culture and tohave a, a peak leadership experience.
Like in my own, I was a beneficiaryof some really bad leadership along
the way and some great that and somegreat leaders that I will absolutely
(53:17):
celebrate, uh, you know, in anotherepisode, beneficiary in the sense
that told me what not to do, right.
And it, it did help strengthen myown conviction around certain things.
Unfortunately, I don't thinkeverybody takes it that way.
And, uh, people I care about deeplywhen I, I ask about their experience,
(53:40):
all they've really known are the,the negative, the downside, and have
made decisions in life about the typeof work they're gonna do based on if
kind of settled with the fact that.
Well, I work is just not somethingthat I get that satisfaction
or gratification from.
And for me, like that drives me becausethe work that we do, the impact that I
(54:04):
wanna make, I know with at all levelsof leadership, it's executive teams
through EOS and the other things thatwe do, the, the middle managers and
emerging leaders through into the stormleaders, they have such a direct impact
on people's lives and, and culture.
So I, I never forget that.
(54:26):
Cause I had somebody tell me oncewhen, when I became a manager, like,
well, congratulations, you justbecame the second most important
person in your, your team's lives.
And it's like, whoa, what do you mean?
They're like, well, think about it outother than their spouse or maybe their
children, people's boss or direct managerkinda swing in one way or the other, a
(54:48):
large amount of their wellbeing and, and.
Livelihood and mindset,so I take that seriously.
Right, right.
Uh, Ron, I, I want to have youtalk one or two more things here,
because, like, you're a founder,you've hit on some of this.
You have worked, you've helped hundredsof different businesses, small to
(55:08):
medium, uh, size organizations.
All industries just get healthier, buildtheir businesses faster, get more of
what they want outta their business.
So if somebody was just tuning infor this episode, and hopefully they
subscribe and come back for more when wedig deeper, but if they're just hearing
this, what, what can you tell 'em?
(55:31):
What insights or lessons do youthink our listeners will benefit
from most if you were to simplify itdown, give them something meaningful.
Um,
trust your gut.
Don't put off the importantand tough conversations.
And
(55:56):
making exciting forward facingdecisions versus fear-based
decisions is going to absolutelyget you where you want to go faster.
I also believe wholeheartedly,every human I, every person wants
to be a part of something great.
(56:19):
Not everyone knows exactlyhow to the path to get there.
And so, um, there's a reason why westart with leadership teams and leaders
in organizations, but ultimatelythis, anyone can be a leader.
I might not want to be a leaderof other people, but I can be
(56:42):
a leader in my organization.
If I see something, I say something and.
The chance that we're gonna improve aprocess or client relationship because
I do that, that's a form of leadership.
And so, um, everyone, if we start withthe, assume the positive, everyone
(57:03):
wants to be a part of something.
Great.
Let's just start there.
If that's true, I can and should beopen and honest with that individual.
Second is when an organizationis truly aligned around a vision,
like bought in, hook, line andsinker, this is why we're here.
This is where we're going, thisis how we're going to get there.
(57:26):
Nots part of the onboarding.
Yep.
This, yeah, this is who we are.
They're all in on that.
Those organizations don't have roomor time for drama and dysfunction
and, uh, and everything that'snegative that goes with that.
We have enough opportunities to be exposedto negativity in our, in our lives.
(57:49):
Given the media and everythingthat's going on in the world
these days, why couldn't ourorganizations be a place where people
go for that positive experience?
And so we see enough people sufferingthrough this, uh, work life, painful
work from, I'd rather work from home.
(58:09):
I don't want to Why we're, weare built to be social beings.
We're built to besurrounded by other people.
And so that's not a knock onintrovert versus extrovert there.
That's just the truth.
And so how can we design, helporganizations intentionally
(58:30):
design an environment where theirpeople want, genuinely want to be
there and to be contributing intheir uh, uh, highest and best.
Purpose.
And so they do exist.
Yeah.
We talk about this podcast beingNo BS real world, and some may not
have experienced it, so they mightthink, yeah, yeah, that sounds nice.
(58:54):
It's imaginary that they do exist.
You've helped a lot of organizationsget there and, uh, guided them.
They did a lot of it ontheir own as well, right?
Because they did it all.
They did all the hard work.
We just held up a mirror.
And, you know, when we think about, um,this idea of drama in organizations and
(59:15):
or we get some unhealthy and lack oftrust in leadership or lack of trust
cross-functionally in other people andus versus them type of mentalities, um,
the root cause there is, is really arewe bought in around a common vision when
we are, uh, we're not gonna, we're notgonna have, we're not gonna sweat it.
(59:38):
We're not gonna have time for it.
Uh, That's a distraction, right?
And so, um, I, I want morepeople to have that experience.
I think we have certainly,we're not perfect.
We've got plenty of issues on ourissues list as an organization, right?
Um, I, but we, I think we're tryingto be very intentional about giving
(01:00:03):
people an experience there thatthey really wanna be a part of.
And, um, and, you know, we buildand shape our vision together.
And so, um, that collaboration'sbeen really special for us.
And, um, and I think, I think for ourclients that have done that well too.
And so, yeah, there'ssome nuggets in here.
(01:00:24):
We've got, I wanna selfishly absorb somenuggets from people participating in this.
And, you know, if this helps us grow theherd, uh, while we're doing it, great.
Right?
Right.
So, I'm gonna fill that stadium, right?
That's right.
I think it was actuallya game against Michigan.
(01:00:46):
Let's not talk about that.
I was at the lastMichigan, Ohio State game.
Oh, I, I was gonna recall amore fond memory, uh, yeah.
That day.
But yeah, I get it.
Uh, yeah, like I said, Iwas in Michigan yesterday.
I don't wanna exclude them either.
It's just when we're talkingfootball, I, I sway one direction.
Uh, Ron, this is awesome.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Immensely for coming on today.
(01:01:07):
I, I'm confident and I'm hopeful,but confident that those who listened
were able to pull something that theyrelated to, that mattered to them.
That, that it did either inspire or,or spark some thought, if nothing else,
then slowing down being more intentionaland, you know, kind of that honest
(01:01:30):
self-assessment of what you're doing ifyou're somebody's peak leader or what.
What you need to do to, tostep up and help your business,
get some of this clarity.
Like there, there's a lot of greatthings that you shared today.
I know we're gonna get more intoa lot of these and we'll expand
on them with specific topicsand tools and stories alongside.
(01:01:51):
But I hope to be some reallycompelling interviews.
Cause I hear 'em in the office.
I hear 'em in oursessions, uh, from people.
And I think some of the beststories go untold largely, right?
You hear from thought leaders and thegurus, but the people who are doing
it, living it day in, day out, andhave gotten some really good results
(01:02:11):
in growing their businesses, that's whowe want to amplify the voice of, right?
So, uh, stay tuned.
I I hope that everybody will,uh, you know, give, give us some
feedback throughout this process.
Uh, let us know what youwant to hear more of.
Subscribe to our channel.
Uh, you can find us on, on YouTube on.
Uh, LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram of course.
(01:02:34):
And then the podcast itself is found.
Uh, if you are seeing the videoof this, you can find the podcast
itself on, on Spotify and, uh, appleMusic or, or iTunes and anywhere
else that you can find podcasts.
But Ron, you're a prettyawesome human, in my eyes.
I know you, you've got so much humility.
You're like, ah, don't tell me that stuff.
Don't gimme these.
(01:02:54):
But you've made a mark on mylife and countless others.
So thank you, uh, from everyone here andfrom those that you've had an impact on.
Not Well, I would say the same thing, Joe.
This, uh, having a vision oran idea, that's the easy part.
Making this a reality.
That's where the rubber meets the road.
(01:03:15):
And so kudos, right?
I literally watched you buildthis studio with your bare hands.
And, um, you got, youshould be proud of it.
And, and, um, And I love, I thinkyou are absolutely in your unique
ability, um, to use some Dan Sullivanstrategic coach language there.
(01:03:37):
And super excited for, uh, you know, justcontinue to watch you grow, um, in this
role and, and as our growth, uh, leader.
So thank you.
Rock on.
Yeah, no doubt.
Storm into the storm folks.
That's it for today.
Uh, tune in.
We'll see you next time.
And again, thank you for allyou do charge into the storm.
(01:03:59):
Cheers.
Welcome to Into The Storm Leaders,the NO BS podcast that ignites
leadership potential and sparksinnovation in the ever evolving
business landscape we all work in.
I'm Joe Jurec, your hostand catalyst for growth.
Joined by my co-host and cultureshoc senior coach Pete Honsberger.
Together we embark on a journey touncover the strategies, mindsets, and
(00:22):
actions that drive truly exceptionalleadership and winning culture.
Whether you're an emerging leaderlooking to level up in your career
or an accomplished executive seekingfresh perspectives, join us as
we uncover inspiring stories andthought-provoking insights from proven
leaders and share practical takeawaysthat enable courageous leadership.
Get ready to charge into thestorm and become a catalyst
(00:43):
for better workplace culture.
Welcome listeners, to a foundationalepisode of Into the Storm
Leaders, featuring an interviewwith expert EOS implementer and.
Our founder, you're atCultureShoc, Ron Kaminski.
Thanks, Joe.
Excited to be here.
(01:04):
You put a lot of time intothis, uh, studio here.
Smells of rich mahogany.
Mm.
Leather bound books.
Leather bound books.
Well done.
Yeah, I, I'm excitedabout this one as well.
And we, we've been workingtowards this for a while.
Uh, listeners may have already heard,uh, an introductory episode from myself
(01:25):
and my co-host, Pete Hansberger, butthis is an idea you've had for a while,
and thank you for believing in usand empowering us to, to run with it.
But I, I'm excited to haveyou featured quite a bit.
Right.
And while listeners are gonna hear Peteand I on a regular basis, they're probably
gonna be pretty familiar with you aswell as you, you share some insights.
(01:49):
So can you tell us just before weget into exa, I have some questions
I want to ask you, and I, I thinkour listeners will benefit from it.
Uh, But kind of talk about the start,you're a founder, you started Culture
Shock in 2014, and that's about allI'll say about it cuz I, I'd love, uh,
for you to talk about kinda the ideahow you started that journey and what
(02:10):
inspired you to embark on the missionof discovering, engaging and growing
leaders, which is the only place today.
Yeah.
Um, happy to share, you know, this,this business actually truly started
in oh three 2003 and, um, I cameout of, uh, college right before Y2K
(02:33):
in 99 and went right into helpingcompanies implement e r P systems.
And, you know, to be honest, I watcheda lot of dysfunctional implementation
teams, um, just make things morecomplex than they needed to be.
(02:53):
Um, a lot of egos in the room.
And, uh, if anyone's been a partof a software implementation, we
know it, it takes twice as long,it costs three times as much.
But I, I think that there is a,there, I always thought there was a
better way and, uh, kind of reallydiscovered that I wasn't all that
passionate about the software solutions.
I was passionate about the teamdynamics associated with, uh,
(03:18):
organizations that were looking tochange things in their business.
And everyone knows the termsaround change management.
Um, and so pair that with being exposedto some world class athletic teams, um,
that I grew up around and in, and then,um, you know, some not so great teams.
(03:42):
And to watch the dichotomy of greatleaders on both fronts and to be
leaders in some of those teams was, uh,Was something that always fascinated
me, inspired me, and, um, I thinkthat's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
Yeah.
So 2014, you're right.
We spun, we spun off Cultureshock, CultureShoc into its
(04:03):
current form, and um, it's justbeen a rocket ship ever since.
I'm glad you did To know Right.
And that we met, uh, a year and a halfor so ago and it, I, I'm the newest
member of the team or one of the newestmembers of the team at CultureShoc.
I can tell you, you introduced me to the,into the Storm mindset that this podcast
(04:26):
is based around, that our programs arebased around, and I I've seen firsthand
how impactful it can be, the connectionbetween CultureShoc and kind of its
origin and the Buffalo and into the Storm.
Listeners might have heard itfrom, from Pete and I, but.
(04:47):
I really liked your take on theinception of it and, and what it
means to you, why it's been such animportant piece of this business.
Sure.
Yeah.
I'll be honest.
I found this, um, story, itwas first shared with me,
um, right around 2010, 2011.
(05:10):
I was actually at a leadership conferencein Athens, Greece for an organization
called EO Entrepreneurs Organization.
And I was on, it was a globalleadership conference and I was
training to be a, a board memberfor our chapter and, and region.
And, uh, this story was brought tome in a breakout session facilitated
(05:33):
by a professor, uh, at a universityin Spain talking about an American.
Indian tribal story, right?
Buffalo's charging into the storm.
And as soon as I heard that, I, it wasclear as day, this is what we have been
(05:55):
helping our clients do since oh three.
It's what I want to continue to helpour, our clients do, um, going forward.
And I think we're really good at it.
And so that concept of making excitingforward facing decisions as opposed
to fear-based decisions and knowingthat we have to go through some storms
(06:16):
in order to get to the other side,um, that's always been something I
think, um, tried to handle head onin my personal life and in business.
And then, um, I am inspired when Iwatch other leaders do the same thing.
So that's where it came from.
So, I don't pretend to own a story,you know, analogy, et cetera.
(06:39):
You didn't create buffalo.
Sure, yeah.
They are delicious, Dan.
I do consume them.
Um, it's more bison, but um, forthose high fact finders out there,
people will make it very clear.
Are, are very clear to point out that, um,the American buffalo is actually extinct.
That being said, um, uh, so everythingthat looks like a buffalo, that we call
(07:03):
a buffalo right now is really bison.
That, that came from several high factfinders that have pointed out to me daily.
Um, it's come up to me quitea few times as well, right.
Uh, but who's gonna let detailsget in the, in the way of a
great story or an analogy?
So to be fair too, I, I was in Denver acouple weeks ago for an event that I was
(07:24):
facilitating and went to this wildlifepreservation with bison and there were
signs up all over the place for Buffalo.
So if even the preservation,uh, is tomato to tomato.
Yeah.
You get it?
Yep.
Uh, you mentioned how it, it not onlyinspires you, we've helped clients charge
(07:45):
into their storms, embody that courageousleadership and recognize it in the moment.
I think that's part of the trick, right?
Is being it mindful enough to see,oh, this is one of those opportunities
to take the little bit more painfulat times or uncomfortable path,
knowing it'll get to a better outcome.
(08:06):
What are the most notableones for you and your journey?
Whether they relate toCultureShoc or not?
That's something we, we wanna accomplishin this podcast all the time, is helping
inspire others by talking with successfulbusiness leaders and entrepreneurs, and
having them share times that they'vecharged into storms successfully.
(08:27):
You've got a few, I'm sure.
What, what comes to mind?
Probably the biggest storm mostentrepreneurs can relate to is the,
um, the financial crisis in oh 8, 0 9,and literally being within weeks of,
of watching, of, of, of having, havingto shut the doors on the business
and, um, didn't have to do that.
(08:50):
Um, had to deal with some, makesome really tough decisions in
order to get through that survivethat we are way better off for it.
Um, it was very humbling, um, butit's a lesson I'll never forget.
Um, a lot of good entrepreneurslost really great businesses in
(09:13):
that, um, in that, uh, crisis.
Um, just like y2k, just like C O V I D.
Um, those experiences kindof hopefully stick with you.
I think we've done a good jobof kind of curating our, um,
lessons learned in our vision.
(09:35):
So for instance, we went into thatcrisis, um, with about 60% of our business
being tied to financial institutions.
And we all know what happenedwith financial institutions
and oh 8, 0 9, right?
Um, now we're very intentional thatno clients more than 5% of total
(09:56):
revenue here at CultureShoc.
And so no industry and noindustry is more than 10%.
So, so we've been very intentionalabout that and that diversification
lesson was really hard earned.
Um, uh, but it's somethingI'll never forget.
And, um, you know, another one was covid.
We are in the business of facilitatingin-person, uh, team and leadership.
(10:23):
Um, Sessions for our clientsleadership development sessions,
uh, strategic planning.
Um, and so to go from a hundred milesan hour to zero overnight and having to
pivot, um, we kind of took the approachof, hey, we can either survive this
(10:46):
downturn, uh, in going virtual, or wecan become world class and being able
to facilitate in a virtual environment.
And so that was another great exampleof the storms we charged into.
Um, plenty of, plenty of storms in thepersonal life, but I would say, you know,
(11:06):
the biggest challenge, uh, I think a lotof people can relate to is just trying to
be a great parent in tough times, right?
During covid for your children.
Uh, you know, you're, I think it's true.
You're only as happy asyour most miserable child.
And so sometimes your kids are goingthrough it and, um, and uh, I can
(11:27):
certainly continue to try to evolveas a parent, but, you know, I think,
I think we've gotta be, one of thethings I also like about the way we
approach this, and I think it's beenintentional, is recognizing people
are, we're, we're all human beings.
This is not a nine to five or seven toseven type of an approach to people.
(11:50):
We take a 24 7, 365 approach to, to,um, the way we look at leadership
development and the way we hopelytreat people here as, as team members.
And, um, you know, sometimes peopleare going through something personally
and it's affecting business orit's going through something in the
business and it's affecting personal.
So, so we don't pretend to think that,you know, people can compartmentalize
(12:15):
and not have those affect each other.
Yeah.
Well, There's a lot there.
And I'll tell you the something thatI, I felt and heard in each one of
those instances and that I, I've seenit so much here, is that intentional,
um, the, the decision to be moreintentional and whether it was C O I
(12:39):
D or some of the other challenges thatyou face, I think so often people just
kinda let it happen and roll with it.
And I, I've, I think that'sa big component of, into the
storm it has been for me.
And you've, you and the team here.
I know you always saywe eat our own dog food.
Uh, I, it was the first time I heardthat when was outta your mouth.
(13:01):
But, uh, e even we advertise ourprinciples through our actions truly.
And that pausing being more, uh, mindful,intentional, uh, disciplined around.
Addressing the reality of asituation and making a decision
about how you're gonna chart forward.
Uh, I, I think a lot of people can relateto that and quite frankly, outta covid
(13:26):
it, that's a big positive benefit that I,I think a lot of people took from it in
conversations I've had with them, whetherit be parenting or, uh, their business,
or just realizing I, I'm not spending mytime how I want to, I'm not getting what
I want outta my business or outta my time.
Sure.
Right?
Sure.
(13:46):
So let, let's, before we move on from itthough, let, let me talk about the flip
side of those into the storm realizations.
What about, has there been a time thatyou realized after you didn't charge into
the storm on something and you probablyshould have, and you thought to yourself,
(14:06):
man, if I'd only dealt with that sooner,it would've been a whole lot easier.
Is there anything there thatcomes to mind for you too?
I mean, we are, of course,there's, there's plenty of them.
And um, you know, I think thefirst one that comes to mind
that I think every leader can,um, relate to is people issues.
(14:28):
Yeah.
You know, when we have, when we in our gutknow we have a people issue, it is very
easy to kick the can down the road on thatbecause that's difficult conversation.
Oh, I can do that next week.
Um, uh, and so that can easily, thatkicking the can can easily become
(14:49):
habitual, especially when you'redealing with, uh, people and you know,
I think to, um, no company out thereis ever gonna be batting a thousand on.
They make a higher rightperson, right seat every time.
It's not gonna happen.
That includes us.
(15:09):
Um, I.
That doesn't make any of those people,that didn't work out for CultureShoc.
Um, bad people.
They just weren't right fit for us.
Yeah.
And we wanted to find a place,find a way for them to succeed
even if it wasn't in here.
And um, and so I think everyonecan relate to the idea of
(15:32):
procrastinating on people issues inour personal lives and in business.
Right.
Um, how long have we keptrelationships going with people
that were pretty toxic for us.
Right.
And I think so that's true for, um, that'strue for most of the entrepreneurs I know.
And, uh, I've yet to find one whenI ask them to get really open and
(15:56):
honest with me about Have you everreally had to part ways with someone?
Not because we had to downsize.
Right.
Um, but because we had to let someonego cuz they were wrong person, um, and
regretted it and to the person, I don't,I've yet to find an entrepreneurial
(16:19):
leader that says, you know what?
In my heart of hearts, I thoughtthat was the wrong person.
I had to let 'em go.
I did.
And quite honestly, I regret it.
I haven't found that person yet.
So the data's telling me that,uh, there's a lot of us out there
procrastinating, especially on peopleissues and tough conversations.
And if there's anything we're really goodat that, um, we are absolute students
(16:44):
of is to find better and better ways ofhaving those tough conversations because
we genuinely care for those peopleand we wanna be great leaders for 'em.
Boy, that, that one, thatone resonates for me.
I, I learned it the hard way.
Of and, and recognized after that I hadn'tcharged into the storm, that I kicked the
(17:09):
can down the road, held onto a toxic topperformer for far too long out of fear
thinking our business was hinge to it.
Right.
And for me, that was one of the mostvalidating things that, that trust
my body, trust my instincts, becausewhen we did art ways, people almost
(17:31):
came out of the woodwork stepped upthat I would've never expected to.
Sure.
And there were new levels of teamperformance that we're, we're far greater
than we were used to, we're accustomed to.
Right.
It, it's, it's crazy how simple things canbe, but how difficult they can also Yeah.
Simple doesn't mean easy.
Right, right.
(17:52):
Uh, I, I've heard thatquite a bit and I, I agree.
The other thing before we move on thatyou hit on and I wanna call attention
to, is the, We do care about people.
It's not that, you know, quiet,quitting does go both ways.
I, I've heard this where it, youknow, management teams or leaders
(18:13):
in general, they also have atendency of writing someone off.
Right.
If they've any given up on them.
And rather than addressing itdirectly or asking the right questions
through curiosity to find out why,just kinda let it run its course.
Even though you can tell that person'snot the right person, not the right fit.
(18:35):
Right.
And probably not happy.
Right.
So when you talk about somebody movingon, is there a, a kind way to do it?
Is there a, a, a service that you canoffer that person as well through like the
conversation you have with them to help'em figure out what they really wanna do?
Like what, if any, experiencehave you had there?
(18:55):
Uh, well I think it comes,it's gotta come from a mindset.
Sure, there's a ton of techniques we canhelp deploy and we can talk into those.
But I think the mindset's most importantif we genuinely care for someone, um,
if it's gotten to a point where I feellike I have to have a tough conversation
(19:16):
with someone, the chances that they arealso unhappy and not feeling like they're
excelling and not feeling in a right spotand not feeling inspired or, or tied to
a vision that aligns with them, uh, Ihave yet to find someone that when that
(19:36):
gut feeling is present here, it's alsopresent on the other side of the tape.
Right?
Right.
And so, um, it kind of goes to, ifI think it, I have to say it now,
that doesn't mean I say thingswithout filter or without, um,
without care for, for someone else's.
Um, Livelihood and wellbeing, et cetera.
(19:59):
Of course, I certainly, butI certainly owe it to open
my mouth to that individual.
And so if I, if I can just get quiet,listen to myself, um, in your heart of
hearts, you know, and they know thisis right, fit or this isn't right.
Right.
(20:19):
So, um, that hasn't steered me wrong.
I, I would say when I listen, yeah.
It's when I don't listen, um, that we gothrough more pain than I think we need to.
Boy, and that's on both sides.
Yeah.
So huge difference betweenlistening to comprehend, listening
(20:41):
to respond, active listening.
We're waiting to speak.
We'll talk more about that at length,I'm sure in future episodes and such.
But I've had that same experience whenI had somebody that I knew wasn't a
fit when I did have that conversation.
So often it was mutual and it's the,the times that I've actually terminated
(21:02):
that person are actually quite low.
But when it comes from a place of careand directness and being willing to lead
and help that person think through where,where, what do you really enjoy doing?
What's the reason, uh, that, that we'reseeing some of these things and, and
(21:22):
they may not have had somebody in theirlife to help them be more intentional
and, and set some goals and milestonesthat align work with their strengths.
It often ends up being a, a betterrelationship that yes, it can
lead to that person moving on.
And I, I've tried to offer even support,like in, in guiding them, connecting with
(21:45):
a recruiter and really showing that it,it is not leaving things off on a bad
foot, but it, it's kind of remarkable and.
Not what you would expect that comesout of those conversations, right?
That if you help people realize,hey, this might not be the place,
but let's figure out what that is.
And they end up being happier too, right?
(22:06):
Like tho those are the, that's thehealthy churn, the healthy turnover
that I think we all hope to achieve.
And it's within grass.
We just often won'thave that conversation.
Cause we think it's gonnacome off negative though.
Right.
Very true.
Uh, so let, let's talk more about the,the creation of, into the storm leaders.
Th this podcast.
(22:27):
Mm-hmm.
We've got some of the backgroundon CultureShoc how we
started, how we got here.
But just in the, the past year or so sincesome of these ideas started to, to form
for you, uh, and you, you know, enrolledPete and I to be, you know, some decision
makers as well and, and to create thevision for this alongside CultureShoc.
(22:51):
Let's share with the listenersyour, your perspective on that.
So into the storm leaders,what's your vision for it?
What do you hope that our listenerscan take from this and like
what, why are they listening?
Why would they tune in and Sure subscribe?
Well, I think ultimatelythe audience is twofold.
(23:13):
One is, um, the entrepreneurs and theirleadership teams that we're working with.
So we're inside of well over a hundredorganizations and we are, we see almost
to the organization the challenge thatthese companies face on the gap they
(23:37):
have between their emerging leaders,middle managers, high potentials.
And the, um, and executive leadership, andeven some of the, some of these leaders
on these leadership teams are stillstruggling with development because it
might have grown up in the organizationand now they're leading some peers.
And that's a tough transition for anybody.
(24:00):
But what we have found is that allof these companies are concerned
with and focused on trying tosolve for sustainability and
succession in key positions inthose, in those organizations.
And so we feel pretty strongly that thereis a, there is a group of soft skills that
(24:25):
have to be absorbed by high potential andemerging leaders, uh, and mid mid managers
in order to close that skillset gapneeded, um, if they're really gonna play
a successful role in their organization.
So certainly we think that, I think that.
Entrepreneurs and their leadership teamsare, you know, can be tuning in to kind of
(24:48):
hear about how we best go and grab them,engage them, and develop them, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, even identifying.
And two is that high potentialemerging leader, middle manager,
supervisor that really wants tobe a leader in an organization.
(25:09):
Um, and by the way, our version,our, our definition of leader is
different than the formal title, right?
Anyone can lead in an organization.
That being said, if I, if I want tobe leading other people, other human
beings, um, that is something that I,I think some people do for the right
(25:33):
reasons, and some people do for thewrong reasons, and, Ego for me and, and
a title that, I'm not saying those arewrong reasons completely, but that's
some of sometimes a driving motivator.
I kind of have that, have that businesscard, have that title, um, be the boss
(25:55):
so to speak as, uh, Renee Bore would say.
Um, I think the best leaders, some of thebest leaders I've ever watched operate
inside of a business or a team are humble,are soft spoken, uh, they care deeply
about their people and they want to mastertheir craft of leading those individuals
(26:20):
and are being very intentional abouttrying to work on their own development.
And so if you want to be able toprovide another human being, peak
leadership experience, we think we have.
We've been students of it for 20 years.
So we think we have certainly acurriculum that can help get people there.
(26:42):
And so I think sharing some ofthose nuggets and trying to, uh,
kind of just give that away ispart of the vision there too.
So I think there's two types ofaudiences we're trying to play to,
or, you know, support with this,with this effort of, uh, its leaders,
podcasts and the its leaders program.
Um, but for sure, I, I think there'san equation of its leaders plus its
(27:05):
teams equals in its culture and intothe storm culture for an organization.
And so, um, we've gotta startwith the individuals though.
Yeah.
And, and that's, that's reallywhere our focus is with its leaders.
And, uh, I I wanna talk moreabout culture and the connection
between leaders and, and culture.
(27:25):
Before we do though, When fortho for those two listeners,
right, for the emerging leaders.
And, and I, I agree.
I've seen it, I've lived it.
There's a lot of managers whoweren't necessarily put into
managerial roles because of theirleadership ability or, uh, their
affinity towards strong leadership.
(27:48):
And I get it.
It, it's so often if there's not ahigh performer, individual contributor
track, that's the only way for peopleto advance the livelihood and wellbeing,
their position, their financialstanding for so many things, right?
Aside from just title and egoand, and that, that piece of it.
(28:11):
But I think people, most of them havethe potential to become great leaders
and want to, they've just not necessarilybeen exposed to the right tools, mindsets.
Mentors or maybe they gotexposed to 'em, but those people
didn't have the capacity Right.
To invest the time.
(28:31):
Right.
Right.
And, and, and so here's, here's somethingwe often charge our emerging leaders or,
uh, that engage in its leaders programwith who in your life has provided
you with a peak leadership experience?
Like when you can look back tothem and say, wow, that is the best
(28:53):
exposure I've had to a genuine leader,be a coach, teacher, parents, aunt,
uncle, someone who left their mark.
Doesn't matter.
Right.
An influences you boss, whatever.
Um, and what were the characteristicsof that relationship with you?
Well, I can tell you after asking thatquestion over a thousand times, um, to
(29:18):
groups of leaders, The characteristicsare, they had higher expectations
of me than I ever had of myself.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, it, we achieved more than we everthought we could individually as a team.
Um, they weren't easy on us, right?
They, uh, they didn't allow for excuses.
(29:40):
Uh, they called us on ourbs, all of those things.
And yet knowing that that's what wecorrelate with a great and peak leadership
experience in our life, yet we hold backon having high expectations for people
cuz I'm, um, I can't have them quit.
(30:01):
Right?
It's a tough talent market tofind people and retain them.
Um, you know, so, so yet we hold backon those things, but after we ask them
to get real about what that, what thatlooked like for them, Um, they start
to recognize it, ah, this might be apath where I can actually intentionally
provide this experience for someone else.
(30:23):
And so that's what we're trying tohelp, uh, people do, is if that is
part of your vision of, um, then,then we think we've got a path there.
I'm not saying it's the only path, right?
We, we think we've got a path there.
So, um, that's part of that vision.
(30:44):
And I've had some exposures to justamazing leadership experiences in my life.
And then I've had some not sogreat exposures shared with me and
I've learned from both of them.
So my guess is most of the peoplethat would be interested in listening
to this podcast and taking in thatcontent, those individuals are trying to
(31:07):
provide that, that experience for other.
Yeah.
Personally and professionallydoesn't need to just be in
the four walls of a business.
I was with a group yesterday,grand Rapids for Planet Fitness.
It was all their club managers and wetalked about peak leadership experience
and slowed it down and paused for a momentand said, now I want you to really think
(31:28):
about how many people would say thatyou are there, be leader, ex experience.
Who have you had thatlevel of influence on?
Right.
And now let's talk about whatit's gonna take to get there.
Mm-hmm.
And you, you touched on what I feelto be one of the, the largest skillset
(31:50):
gaps or, or just areas of discomfort andfear for new managers for first time.
Heck, mid mid-career managersand some senior leaders are
the tough conversations.
The.
Finding a way to blend not justcaring and being compassionate.
(32:10):
I think most people do genuinely careabout their team and people, but confuse
the way that they can show that mosteffectively with being too soft or
pulling punches, not being direct,not giving that direct criticism.
And when you're talking about peakleadership being, being challenged,
(32:32):
somebody having high standardsfor you, pushing you beyond where
you would've gotten on your own.
I've, I've seen that and that's been oneof the most gratifying parts of my time
with CultureShoc, is that our programsfor Into the Storm Leaders trust, uh, or
establish authentic trust, real simplecommunication and positive accountability,
(32:56):
the way that those blend together.
Yeah.
Do you agree that that has been,In, in your experience, one of,
if not the biggest hurdles toclimb that defines a good leader?
A hundred percent.
I mean, think about it this way.
(33:18):
We call it positive accountability herebecause if you and I talk about what you
need to be doing for you to be great,to truly live your own vision, and then
I don't hold you accountable to that.
I am doing you a massive disservice.
(33:38):
Yeah.
On the flip side of that, um, a lot ofus view this accountability as this thing
that I'm gonna impose on somebody else.
Right.
I'm gonna hold you accountable.
And I think that's the furthest thingfrom what real accountability looks like.
(33:58):
It's the perception.
Sure.
It's the, for a lot of mutual is why.
I'm not comfortable doing this, right.
Well, that's not what we thinkpositive accountability is.
Let's let's have an open and honestdialogue about what you want for
your life and your, your futureand your role and your experience.
(34:18):
And let's go hold each otheraccountable to that and the
roles we both need to play.
So, um, that's where positive comes.
It's probably the biggest gift we can giveis holding them accountable to mission.
And you can hear it, but until youexperience it yourself, then it, it takes
(34:41):
that mindset, that realization, right?
That it is truly a disservice.
If we care enough about somebody,it's our responsibility to Right.
Hold them accountable.
I, there's a difference between comfortwith having comfort with conflict and,
uh, Effect and skillful conflict, right?
(35:03):
I don't know a whole lot of people thatare incredibly comfortable with conflict.
Certainly there are some out there.
Um, get a thrill from it.
Who, who just, that's their thing, right?
And then they leverage that withpeople around them cuz they sense
a less comfort with that conflict.
That's not what we're talking about here.
(35:24):
I, we recognize that most peopleare uncomfortable with it.
This is, uh, fight or flight.
This is in our limbic brains, right?
This is how we're wired as human beingsbecause it's life or death conflict.
Our brain doesn't know that I'm notbeing chased by a tiger when I'm just
sitting here trying to have a toughconversation with you because you're
(35:45):
not meeting your own expectations.
It's the same response.
Internally.
Internally, same response.
So to us, it's life or death.
Internally.
Reigns don't really.
Understand that difference.
And so if we can just chargeinto that storm, what if we only
need to be brave enough for 30seconds to say, you know what?
(36:09):
This makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
I care deeply about you and youknow, you're not putting everything
into this like you had committed to.
What's going on?
Yeah.
How can I help?
So to kind of round things out, talkingabout positive accountability, there's
one other thing I wanna share, and Idon't even think we've talked about this
yet, but one of our, one of my coachingclients, we started working together
(36:35):
because ha was told he didn't reallyhold his team accountable or need to do a
better job of doing so, but he had desire.
We don't coach people who,uh, for disciplinary reasons
or something like that.
It, it's when they want to unlock.
Potential and get to the next year.
And he, he truly did.
(36:57):
We'd gone through some of our tools, we'dtalked trust, effective communication,
introduced to some of these differentprinciples that we've curated and created.
And he told me the other day,like, so positive accountability.
It's kind of an equation.
I see how these fit together, where ifI'm intentional about building trust and
(37:20):
I've made that clear, I've set honestexpectations and asked for them in return,
then gotten a commitment on what thatlooks like if one of us is falling short.
And then when I go to have anaccountability conversation or hold
somebody accountable, I make sure toget my heart and mind right, to remember
(37:45):
that it is a service to rememberthat we've mutually agreed to this.
When I actually deliver that message,I do so with curiosity or by being
more interested than interesting and Ideliver it, or my positioning of things
is a combination of being compassionateand challenging, directly being direct.
(38:12):
So he fit together a lot of thedifferent things that we had talked
about into this flow that he wasable to then set as kind of the
standard expectation with his people.
I was like, you, you kinda openedmy eyes to just a, a way to look at
that, that positive accountability isan equation of these crucial steps.
(38:33):
You can't jump straight to accountabilityand expect it to be well received.
Right.
E, even if there is compassion andcare, it takes hard work to get there.
Sure.
By, by by.
Sounds like he's got a great coach.
I, I was pretty happy with the outcome.
Uh, and I, I actually, I'vesince used it when explaining it.
(38:55):
Cause I think it's, uh, a way thatpeople can understand that there's just
a simple, simple but not easy process.
Well, you just brought up somethingthat I want to touch on as part of
the expectation of the podcast becauseI'm not sitting here and I don't
think you or Pete or I, any of us aresitting here thinking we're experts on
(39:18):
culture, we're experts on leadership,we're experts on, uh, on any of that.
We're students of it.
Totally.
And so part of the reasonfor the podcast is selfish.
Um, I know I have some clientsthat we wanna highlight their
stories of how they've chargedinto storms in their organizations.
(39:41):
For sure.
Uh, I think.
The audience will see themself ina lot of those stories and, and
quite frankly, in, you know, theirlessons learned from those stories.
And selfishly, I still want tocontinue to, to learn and grow.
And so part of this was just, uh, aselfish pursuit to say, Hey, how can
(40:04):
we get some really smart, inspirationalleaders in this room sharing,
you know, war stories essentiallyabout, uh, charging into the storm.
And, um, as you can imagine, beinginside of a hundred plus organizations,
um, and having worked with as anorganization, we've worked with over
(40:24):
30,000 unique leaders that we'vehad a positive and direct impact on.
The impact that they'vehad on us is immeasurable.
And so, I'm being honest,some of this is selfish.
So, Um, you sure You call what it is?
I I, yeah.
I feel the same way.
Like, we're influenced by so manythings, whether it be a, a book or
(40:46):
a podcast or a, a conversation thatwe have and we've had this fortunate
advantage that we do wanna share, right.
Of coming into contactwith some incredible Right.
Humans that, and leaders, uh, evenjust in the time that, that I've
been here because we're in differentindustries and in this intimate
setting where we're really helpingpeople get more outta what they Sure.
(41:09):
More of what they want outta the business.
So how do you think, uh,when we're talking about the
podcast evolution, right?
We're, we're in the formative stages,uh, of recording and I, we're not just
students of leadership, like we're,we're students of this stuff too.
We're figuring this, figuringthis out right as we go.
I'm surely gonna fall on myjob, make up as we go along.
(41:32):
We'll give you someentertainment as well, when.
You know, a light falls on us one day,or, you know, we butcher something.
We're all right with that humbleconfidence, vulnerability.
We'll mess it up, we'll get better,we'll learn other than just it being
a better, uh, finished product and,uh, something that, that we get
(41:55):
more confident and comfortable in.
How do you see it evolving?
Like if things go the the way that wewant and potentially even better if people
do get the value that we are pretty surethey, they can and should, from this sort
of sharing, how could this thing takeoff or, or expand into more of a herd?
(42:19):
Sure.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, you just touched on it a herd.
I mean, that's, I think that's whatwe're trying to be intentional about.
So when we, uh, L relaunchedCultureShoc in its current form.
2014, we set a, uh, core targetof having a direct and positive
(42:42):
impact on 108,975 leaders.
It's a specific number, very specific.
At the time, it was the largestattendance ever at the shoe, the
Ohio State Stadium, not in Columbus.
And we imagined an entire stadium filledwith leaders that we've had a direct and
(43:06):
positive impact on their words, not ours.
Right?
And so to this, to date, we'vehad about 30,000 plus unique
leaders in that stadium.
And if every one of those leaders is,uh, leading about 10 other people,
we've had an indirect and positiveimpact on about a million people.
(43:28):
So I think about, you know, our team, ourcollective team here, CultureShoc as,
as kind of as a, as a little herd, right?
Family inside of the herd.
And then we think about the leaderswe've had a direct positive impact on.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the larger herd and then,and then the herd of the herd, right?
(43:50):
And so this whole idea of just tryingto, um, find, engage, grow like-minded,
um, people, um, by sharing best practiceswith each other in an environment where
(44:13):
our guard is down and we are open andopen-minded to the idea that the way
I'm doing it might not be the best way.
And quite honestly, we'regonna continue to hone our,
our content and our curriculum.
Based on what we're learning,and that's never gonna stop.
And so, um, I just envision having apretty positive impact on our customers,
(44:39):
our region, um, and those leadersthat get exposed to, to what we do.
And so why wouldn't we want tointentionally and exponentially
grow that, um, that exposure?
And I think this is agreat, great way to do that.
I tend to agree, Ron, uh, trulylike into the storm, the buffalo
(45:01):
or technically bison mindset.
It, it's, it's powerful.
I've seen it.
I've, I've felt it and the like,it, it's an honor to get to
more, expose more people to it.
It's simple.
It, it resonates and sticks andthat's what matters most because
then in the times where you are,In the challenging the situation.
(45:23):
You, you think back to your training,you think back to your tools, you
think back to what's simple and stickswhen Last thing there, there's, we
talk about our uniques and what I,I've truly experienced in other, what,
what someone perceived as competitors.
I know we have an abundance mindsetwhere if we're not the best fit, we're,
(45:47):
we're gonna tell you and we're, we'rehappy to introduce you to somebody
else who, who might be a better fit.
But the more professor led classroomstyle curriculum, like where, where
I've seen it and heard feedback is how,cause we're always evolving because the
world's changed dramatically and we'recontinuing to kind of iterate that that's
(46:10):
something different that people relate to.
Right.
That, that I'm excited to share.
I think that's, I've observed thisshift when it comes to workplace culture
becoming a, a bigger emphasis and therebeing that more authenticity, true
self as a large component of that.
(46:33):
Let's connect these two, cause we'retalking about the development of
emerging leaders, first time managers.
The secondary benefit of this podcastbeing for the executives who, you
know, want, want to keep theirperspective short, wanna keep pulse
of changes and I think the, theculture aspect of what we do and what
we set out to achieve with this isprobably gonna be largely beneficial.
(46:57):
If I'm thinking about, you know,when, when I ran a company or
when an an executive who's been inplace for a while wants to continue
to level up their awareness.
So what's the connection?
Our name's CultureShoc, rightinto the storm is a big part of it.
We're talking leaders, we'retalking strategic planning.
Where does the culture piece fit in?
(47:18):
Yeah, so we work exclusively withentrepreneurial, uh, led organizations
that are hitting the ceilings.
There's some frustrations in therebecause they're hitting ceilings and they,
they're, they want help breaking through.
They're, they're obsessedwith wanting to grow.
(47:38):
Um, and growth comes in many forms, right?
Top line revenue, bottom line,um, internal growth, et cetera.
So I s where this came from in largepart was we saw a gap and we're
(48:00):
trying to intentionally add valueand fill that gap with its leaders.
And I think that there is a placefor, and certainly a need for.
The universities of the worldto be developing not just young
people, but people in general.
Uh, great example.
(48:21):
We wouldn't have appreciative inquiryas a philosophy and a methodology
without case Western Reserve and,and it's author Cooperrider, right?
And so you're in Cleveland.
That being said, very proud.
That being said, um, I think there issomething to be said for, uh, taking a
(48:47):
group of entrepreneurial leaders insideof an organization or cross-functionally
across multiple organizations andexposing them to, um, the curriculum
we've developed over the last 20years that we've learned firsthand.
Works in these, these size organizationsthat we're working with, the small
(49:10):
to mid-size and even some of the,um, some of the larger organizations.
So they can actually grow up together,establishing a authentic trust
with each other, with each othercross-functionally as they grow up in
their organization or they grow up intheir organizations together, getting
(49:33):
them speaking the same language versusI send this individual over here to
this, uh, school for a certification.
This one does an online training,this one is doing something else.
All those are great things and we thinkneeds to continue, but how do we get them
actually talking the same language aroundwhat great leadership looks like, um, and
(49:56):
how do we get them actually solving realissues in their businesses as opposed
to just esoterically talking about.
Philosophy, uh, leadership philosophy.
And so we think, uh, we've found, uh,certainly a, you know, our clients
(50:17):
have told us that they have thisneed and that's why we've developed
the curriculum we have, right?
And so we're cer certainly excitedto share that, um, value everyone
that's contributed to that, um,uh, and are not blind to the idea
that we don't have all the answers.
(50:40):
This is just a path in order to beable to intentionally provide a peak
leadership experience for someone else.
For sure.
Not the only one, right?
So, and you're, you're the, in my eyes,one of the kings of simplification.
We always talk about simplify.
Is it fair to say take a page outta your,but as goes, the leader goes the culture.
(51:04):
Sure.
Uh, and Gino will say, as goes, theleadership team, Gino Wickman, by the
way, of eos, uh, we haven't talkedspecifically about EOS much yet
today, but we'll have time for that.
We'll have time, we'll haveplenty of time for that.
But as goes, the leadership team,so goes the entire organization.
And so to the extent that that team can behealthy, open, honest, vulnerable, talking
(51:27):
about the real issues, we're not sittingon them for a day or a week or a month or
a year in some family businesses a decade.
Um, and so, uh, yes, absolutelyit starts with those leaders.
And, uh, I think we, most people listeningcan attest that we probably need, we need
(51:49):
more of those types of leaders, right?
There's, there's certainly, wedon't have abundance in that area.
Um, It is not an issue says mostof our companies are still sitting
with open positions, right?
And so, um, if we can fill thosefrom within all the better, right?
If we can develop people internally inour organizations and give them a path
(52:14):
inside of those organizations that says,Hey, this is how you continue to add
more and more value to this organizationif you have these skill sets, right?
And if we can help close someof those gaps and help these
people become the leaders thatthey want to, um, everyone wins.
(52:34):
No doubt.
I, I'm sure I told you this,uh, when we first met, we, we
talked for a while to make sure,again, right person, right seat.
But one of the biggest motivatingfactors for me and why I, I love
this, like the impact that I wannamake, stems from my own experience.
(52:55):
Experiences shape our beliefs.
And I, I believe that everybodydeserves to know what it feels like
to work at a healthy culture and tohave a, a peak leadership experience.
Like in my own, I was a beneficiaryof some really bad leadership along
the way and some great that and somegreat leaders that I will absolutely
(53:17):
celebrate, uh, you know, in anotherepisode, beneficiary in the sense
that told me what not to do, right.
And it, it did help strengthen myown conviction around certain things.
Unfortunately, I don't thinkeverybody takes it that way.
And, uh, people I care about deeplywhen I, I ask about their experience,
(53:40):
all they've really known are the,the negative, the downside, and have
made decisions in life about the typeof work they're gonna do based on if
kind of settled with the fact that.
Well, I work is just not somethingthat I get that satisfaction
or gratification from.
And for me, like that drives me becausethe work that we do, the impact that I
(54:04):
wanna make, I know with at all levelsof leadership, it's executive teams
through EOS and the other things thatwe do, the, the middle managers and
emerging leaders through into the stormleaders, they have such a direct impact
on people's lives and, and culture.
So I, I never forget that.
(54:26):
Cause I had somebody tell me oncewhen, when I became a manager, like,
well, congratulations, you justbecame the second most important
person in your, your team's lives.
And it's like, whoa, what do you mean?
They're like, well, think about it outother than their spouse or maybe their
children, people's boss or direct managerkinda swing in one way or the other, a
(54:48):
large amount of their wellbeing and, and.
Livelihood and mindset,so I take that seriously.
Right, right.
Uh, Ron, I, I want to have youtalk one or two more things here,
because, like, you're a founder,you've hit on some of this.
You have worked, you've helped hundredsof different businesses, small to
(55:08):
medium, uh, size organizations.
All industries just get healthier, buildtheir businesses faster, get more of
what they want outta their business.
So if somebody was just tuning infor this episode, and hopefully they
subscribe and come back for more when wedig deeper, but if they're just hearing
this, what, what can you tell 'em?
(55:31):
What insights or lessons do youthink our listeners will benefit
from most if you were to simplify itdown, give them something meaningful.
Um,
trust your gut.
Don't put off the importantand tough conversations.
And
(55:56):
making exciting forward facingdecisions versus fear-based
decisions is going to absolutelyget you where you want to go faster.
I also believe wholeheartedly,every human I, every person wants
to be a part of something great.
(56:19):
Not everyone knows exactlyhow to the path to get there.
And so, um, there's a reason why westart with leadership teams and leaders
in organizations, but ultimatelythis, anyone can be a leader.
I might not want to be a leaderof other people, but I can be
(56:42):
a leader in my organization.
If I see something, I say something and.
The chance that we're gonna improve aprocess or client relationship because
I do that, that's a form of leadership.
And so, um, everyone, if we start withthe, assume the positive, everyone
(57:03):
wants to be a part of something.
Great.
Let's just start there.
If that's true, I can and should beopen and honest with that individual.
Second is when an organizationis truly aligned around a vision,
like bought in, hook, line andsinker, this is why we're here.
This is where we're going, thisis how we're going to get there.
(57:26):
Nots part of the onboarding.
Yep.
This, yeah, this is who we are.
They're all in on that.
Those organizations don't have roomor time for drama and dysfunction
and, uh, and everything that'snegative that goes with that.
We have enough opportunities to be exposedto negativity in our, in our lives.
(57:49):
Given the media and everythingthat's going on in the world
these days, why couldn't ourorganizations be a place where people
go for that positive experience?
And so we see enough people sufferingthrough this, uh, work life, painful
work from, I'd rather work from home.
(58:09):
I don't want to Why we're, weare built to be social beings.
We're built to besurrounded by other people.
And so that's not a knock onintrovert versus extrovert there.
That's just the truth.
And so how can we design, helporganizations intentionally
(58:30):
design an environment where theirpeople want, genuinely want to be
there and to be contributing intheir uh, uh, highest and best.
Purpose.
And so they do exist.
Yeah.
We talk about this podcast beingNo BS real world, and some may not
have experienced it, so they mightthink, yeah, yeah, that sounds nice.
(58:54):
It's imaginary that they do exist.
You've helped a lot of organizationsget there and, uh, guided them.
They did a lot of it ontheir own as well, right?
Because they did it all.
They did all the hard work.
We just held up a mirror.
And, you know, when we think about, um,this idea of drama in organizations and
(59:15):
or we get some unhealthy and lack oftrust in leadership or lack of trust
cross-functionally in other people andus versus them type of mentalities, um,
the root cause there is, is really arewe bought in around a common vision when
we are, uh, we're not gonna, we're notgonna have, we're not gonna sweat it.
(59:38):
We're not gonna have time for it.
Uh, That's a distraction, right?
And so, um, I, I want morepeople to have that experience.
I think we have certainly,we're not perfect.
We've got plenty of issues on ourissues list as an organization, right?
Um, I, but we, I think we're tryingto be very intentional about giving
(01:00:03):
people an experience there thatthey really wanna be a part of.
And, um, and, you know, we buildand shape our vision together.
And so, um, that collaboration'sbeen really special for us.
And, um, and I think, I think for ourclients that have done that well too.
And so, yeah, there'ssome nuggets in here.
(01:00:24):
We've got, I wanna selfishly absorb somenuggets from people participating in this.
And, you know, if this helps us grow theherd, uh, while we're doing it, great.
Right?
Right.
So, I'm gonna fill that stadium, right?
That's right.
I think it was actuallya game against Michigan.
(01:00:46):
Let's not talk about that.
I was at the lastMichigan, Ohio State game.
Oh, I, I was gonna recall amore fond memory, uh, yeah.
That day.
But yeah, I get it.
Uh, yeah, like I said, Iwas in Michigan yesterday.
I don't wanna exclude them either.
It's just when we're talkingfootball, I, I sway one direction.
Uh, Ron, this is awesome.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Immensely for coming on today.
(01:01:07):
I, I'm confident and I'm hopeful,but confident that those who listened
were able to pull something that theyrelated to, that mattered to them.
That, that it did either inspire or,or spark some thought, if nothing else,
then slowing down being more intentionaland, you know, kind of that honest
(01:01:30):
self-assessment of what you're doing ifyou're somebody's peak leader or what.
What you need to do to, tostep up and help your business,
get some of this clarity.
Like there, there's a lot of greatthings that you shared today.
I know we're gonna get more intoa lot of these and we'll expand
on them with specific topicsand tools and stories alongside.
(01:01:51):
But I hope to be some reallycompelling interviews.
Cause I hear 'em in the office.
I hear 'em in oursessions, uh, from people.
And I think some of the beststories go untold largely, right?
You hear from thought leaders and thegurus, but the people who are doing
it, living it day in, day out, andhave gotten some really good results
(01:02:11):
in growing their businesses, that's whowe want to amplify the voice of, right?
So, uh, stay tuned.
I I hope that everybody will,uh, you know, give, give us some
feedback throughout this process.
Uh, let us know what youwant to hear more of.
Subscribe to our channel.
Uh, you can find us on, on YouTube on.
Uh, LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram of course.
(01:02:34):
And then the podcast itself is found.
Uh, if you are seeing the videoof this, you can find the podcast
itself on, on Spotify and, uh, appleMusic or, or iTunes and anywhere
else that you can find podcasts.
But Ron, you're a prettyawesome human, in my eyes.
I know you, you've got so much humility.
You're like, ah, don't tell me that stuff.
Don't gimme these.
(01:02:54):
But you've made a mark on mylife and countless others.
So thank you, uh, from everyone here andfrom those that you've had an impact on.
Not Well, I would say the same thing, Joe.
This, uh, having a vision oran idea, that's the easy part.
Making this a reality.
That's where the rubber meets the road.
(01:03:15):
And so kudos, right?
I literally watched you buildthis studio with your bare hands.
And, um, you got, youshould be proud of it.
And, and, um, And I love, I thinkyou are absolutely in your unique
ability, um, to use some Dan Sullivanstrategic coach language there.
(01:03:37):
And super excited for, uh, you know, justcontinue to watch you grow, um, in this
role and, and as our growth, uh, leader.
So thank you.
Rock on.
Yeah, no doubt.
Storm into the storm folks.
That's it for today.
Uh, tune in.
We'll see you next time.
And again, thank you for allyou do charge into the storm.
(01:03:59):
Cheers.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.