S1E4: Andrew Spott, Founder of VividFront & The NEW ’HR Signal’

Episode Transcript
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Microphone (RODECaster Pro Stereo)-5: In today's episode of the into the storm (00:01):
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leaders podcast, we sit down with Andrewspot, the founder of vivid front and
established successful marketing agencyhere in Cleveland, Ohio, that runs on EOS.
They're both a client of oursand have been for a few years.
And a strategic partnerof ours, a vendor as well.
Andrew takes us through his story ofbecoming an entrepreneur as a kid, selling

(00:25):
his first successful business that hehad built while still in college and
every step along the way and storm thathe's charged into to not only found.
And scale vivid front, but also tolaunch a new business called HR signal.
We're really excited about thisone because of the parallels
and the sort of work that we do.
And how much of a game changer thisnew platform can be because it is a

(00:47):
people centric retention tool thatgives you insights about your workforce.
You probably wouldn't find anywhere else.
This episode does run a little bitlonger than some of the others.
I think you'll see why, because his storyis incredible and so is what he's created.
Buckle up for this one and letus know your feedback as always

(01:09):
in the comments section, whereveryou're checking out this podcast.

Joe Jurec (01:15):
Welcome to into the storm leaders, the no BS podcast that ignites
leadership potential and sparks innovationin the ever evolving business landscape.
We all work in I'm Joe jurec, yourhost and catalyst for growth joined
by my co host and CultureShoc,senior coach Pete Honsberger.
Together, we embark on a journeyto uncover the strategies.

(01:35):
Mindsets and actions that drive trulyexceptional leadership and winning
culture, whether you're an emergingleader, looking to level up in your
career or an accomplished executiveseeking fresh perspectives, join us.
As we uncover inspiring stories andthought provoking insights from proven
leaders and share practical takeawaysthat enable courageous leadership,
get ready to charge into the storm andbecome a catalyst for better workplace.

(01:58):
Welcome
podcast today.
I don't have Pete Honsberger with me.
I'm really excited aboutthe guest that we do have.
This is Andrew Spot, and he's been oneof the clients of ours at CultureShoc,

(02:19):
uh, with multiple businesses,one of our strategic partners.
And I think you're just apretty awesome frickin dude.
I'm pumped to talk to you and have thelisteners hear more about your story.
Uh, I've gotten to know itpretty well recently, and

Andrew Spott (02:36):
welcome.
Joe, thank you for having me.
Yeah, for sure.
Uh,

Joe Jurec (02:41):
to, to kick things off, I really, I'd love if you could just
introduce yourself, talk a little bitabout kind of how we got here today and
anything that you want to share to kindof lay the groundwork in the beginning.
I know we're going todig more into HR signal.
Uh, EOS, Peak Leadership, Storms,all that good stuff, but tell

(03:02):
the listeners who you are and

how we got here.
Wonderful.
Joe, uh, thanks for having me again.
Uh, it's really a specialintersection of many ways we know
each other and work together.
So, uh, it's cool tobe on the show as well.
I met CultureShoc, um, I thinkit was three, three years
ago, something like that.
And I met Ron Kaminski because I started amarketing agency named VividFront in 2009.

(03:29):
And we had reached a point where thebusiness was, uh, running on EOS, we
had self implemented in 2017, we weregrowing, but we felt we had reached a
point, uh, in 2020 where we needed morestructure, uh, better implementation.
To take the business to the next level.

(03:49):
And so we did a search for EOS consultantsand people who could help us, uh,
better implement the model for sure.
And we found Ron and,and, and CultureShoc here.
And we had a tough decisionpicking who to work with.
Then we picked Ron and it was,uh, for me as the founder of
IVIDFRONT, a life alteringexperience in a very, very good way.

(04:11):
And for the business, um, we've recorded,uh, incredible growth, uh, since then.
Not just in headcount, but in, inrevenue and most importantly, um, in
operational, uh, sort of proficiency.
Uh, we've become betterat running that business.
And so, uh, I met, uh, your team here, um,from a professional implementation of EOS.

(04:35):
And that has been part of, for me, Um, apersonal journey in entrepreneurship, um,
starting a business 15 years ago to now.
Um, the last five years I've spenttrying to work more on, uh, VividFront
and implementing EOS allowed me to,to culminate a goal of leaving day
to day operations, um, promotingour leadership team from within.

(04:59):
Um, to really run the business.
And so, uh, in EOS terms today, I'm, I'ma visionary and I'm in the owner's box.
Yep.
And, uh, I'm lucky to have the incredibleleadership of the Vivid Front Management
team, um, who runs a day to day businessand, and keeps things, uh, running
smoothly and, uh, and our clients happy.

(05:19):
Well, I'm glad

Joe Jurec (05:19):
EOS is a, a part of that.
You, you're a hell of a successstory for EOS implementation.
But I think even outside of that,like, What you built and then hearing
your start into entrepreneurshipand where you've gotten today.
Like one of the things I was mostexcited about in this interview
is getting to tell people aboutwhat you've built with HR Signal.

(05:42):
And we'll get more intothat for, you mentioned EOS.
I want to make sure if you are listeningand you're not yet familiar with that,
it's the entrepreneurial operatingsystem, something that we operate on.
You're a CultureShoc.
We help our clients implement it as well.
And a radically simple way torun and grow your business.

(06:04):
Simple, not always easy, but just ahyper disciplined, uh, approach to,
uh, being an entrepreneurial business.
Alright, so.
What has, how would you summarize it?
Like, as you're explaining EOSto, to somebody else, maybe, uh,
somebody who's not yet familiar withit, if it's just someone in your

(06:24):
network, how would you describe EOS?

So, uh, in, in life as an entrepreneur or in business, as
a leader working for a company, uh,you come across many business books.
Um, these business books fallinto categories of either
self help or leadership help.
or organizational observations.
Like what, what makes healthy companies,healthy teams that, um, traction the book

(06:53):
by Gino Wickman, that is what started EOS.
Right.
Um, I think what he did tact andgenius is take the pieces of.
Other best practices in place thatare self help related, professional
proficiency and leadership relatedand organizational, uh, uh, sort
of strategies and combine theminto one model, which is simple.

(07:16):
And when I describe it to other people,I say, look, like there's no book, um,
on how to run a successful business.
Um, how do you sort of takesomething that would run a successful
pizza shop versus professionalservices versus a product company?
or a software company, um, what would bein common with any of those businesses?
Well, uh, EOS has found a way tocreate a common language for problem

(07:39):
solving, for measuring, um, and forsolving issues, accomplishing big goals
that I think works with any business.
And so, um, I had my ownskepticism in 2016, 2017 before
we implemented it ourselves.
Um, and luckily, um, youknow, saw the value quickly.
And I think that most peoplewho I've recommended it to have
also seen the value quickly.

(08:01):
You've

Joe Jurec (08:02):
actually, you've been exposed to it quite a bit longer than I have.
It was just about a year and a half ago,uh, that I joined CultureShoc, and that
I, somebody handed me the book Traction.
And...
It has made a profound impact on me asa human, but also as a professional, and

(08:23):
I love it because I get to sit here inthe office and whether it's somebody's
first session or their 10th and they'regoing through this, get to hear the
different stories and some of the healthyconflict that comes out of some of
the quarterlies and sessions as well,which is I think a part of it, right?
It's leadership at the center,getting clarity around vision.

(08:46):
Using your values as a filterfor decisions and getting
healthy traction to grow.
And to do that, you needto be open and honest.
You need to fight things out insteadof letting resentment, you know, burrow
onto the surface and things like that.
And, uh, it, it all kind of connectswith what we're talking about here today.
And that's culture and leadership, right?

(09:09):
They're big pillars in there.
So I'd like if, can you talkto us, let's zoom back a little
bit or rewind from there.
And.
Tell us, tell us where you started, like,we're, we're in Cleveland, Ohio now.
Uh, did, did you grow up here?
What do you love or hate about this place?
I think there's, there's plenty of both.

(09:29):
I, I, I have an appreciation for it.
I never would have had had Inot left for about 10 years.
I'm gonna, I, I am atruther and love Cleveland.
Not everyone feels that way.
Curious where your head's at.
And just, what shaped you?
Like, what, what were your, your first,you know, forays into entrepreneurship?
And give us that part of the story.

Great question.
Um, I'm a Clevelander, uh, born andraised, um, I, uh, grew up in South
Euclid, uh, later on, uh, I, I, we, ourfamily moved to Solon and I graduated
from Solon, um, went to Ohio State and,uh, and was in Columbus for a while,
came back, so going, going back to thebeginning, um, I had a very, I think, uh,

(10:13):
fortunate upbringing with parents that,um, gave me both freedom to do things,
As well as the trust, um, and the, andthe rules to, to exist in to do things
right and to, to make good decisions.
And so, I recall, uh, being able to goout in elementary school on my bicycle

(10:36):
and ride to a friend's house or ride to mycousin's house, um, without supervision.
Yep.
Um, taking sidewalks, crossing bigstreets, um, and being able to, uh, run
my own afternoon, uh, I think was a, anexecutive function that, Uh, was really
commonplace in upbringing for people myage and older, um, but isn't anymore.

(11:00):
And so from a young age, uh, I, I sawthat now growing up, my father had
an electronics repair business, um,TVs, uh, VCRs, radios, record players.
And I had the joy of working.
In his shop from time to time when wehad a, you know, bank holiday, school

(11:21):
holiday or in the summertime betweendifferent camps and things like that.
And I was able to have the model ofgrowing up under an entrepreneurial
father, but not just entrepreneurialin the sense of business.
He worked on things with hishands and fixed them along
with his other team members.
And that experience was amazing,um, to see him, uh, not just be

(11:43):
in business, but, but work withyour hands and make things better.
Yeah.
And then interestingly, um, you know,I also got to see the, the value of
entrepreneurship because he was able torun his own schedule and he could pick us
up from school or go to a special event.
Um, it wasn't like he had to,you know, have a certain bank
of PTO days or hours to use.

(12:04):
Um, so I saw that, that benefit,it was in contrast to my mother who
was a nurse at university hospitalsand had a very rigid schedule.
And yes, there is lots of flexibility,you can change your shifts, you can do
many different things in, in healthcare.
Um, but ultimately she was sort ofthe other end of the spectrum, right?
Where she's in a union and she's partof an institution and, and, um, is

(12:25):
not making her own decisions the sameway you would as an entrepreneur.
Uh, so growing up with two parentsat, at, at the sort of opposite
ends of the spectrum from a careerstandpoint was, was great because
I knew both were great options.
Um, entrepreneurially at a young age,I got into, you know, lawn mowing and

(12:45):
doing chores and tasks for people tryingto, um, make money, probably shoveling
snow, shoveling snow, unfortunatelymore than cutting a lawn in this city.
Um, and I, I quickly realized that, um,There was two ways to make money, uh,
you could sell your time or you couldsell an object at least in those days.

(13:06):
I only knew those two.
Um, so if you were mowing a lawn,um, you were selling a service.
And so I would, the service was mytime spent for a certain hourly rate.
Uh, on the other hand, if you, um,could buy something and sell it.
Uh, you could have more of those objectsfor sale and, and not necessarily be,

(13:27):
uh, earning based on your time, butbased on your margin between what you buy
something for and what you sell it for.
And so as the, um, internet age began,my father being, you know, uh, working
on computers and electronics andTVs and fixing things was obviously
very technologically inclined.
We had a very earlycomputer with, you know, 14.

(13:48):
4 internet and prodigy and, you know,early days of bulletin board systems.
And, uh, I was able to sort ofbalance like riding my bike around the
neighborhood and being a normal kidplaying outside, but having really sort
of early exposure, uh, to technologyand the internet at a young age.
I feel grateful

Joe Jurec (14:07):
for that because I too kind of straddled that border where...
The freedom of a bicycle and nothaving a cell phone and just getting
outside with friends, that was life.
A windows 3.
1 computer.
And some of the, we grew up with it.
We grew up alongside it.

(14:28):
And because of that, I think it's thisunique kind of timeframe where we.
Can relate with those where that'sall they know and those where they
struggle with that a little bitmore but boy It's fascinating.
I'm intrigued similarly with with techwith innovation with new stuff It worked
at Sony Electronics for a long time.

(14:49):
I wasn't fixing them, but You knoweverything else you can imagine with with
home electronics Were you, were you justholding the flashlight for dad or did
you, are you also mechanically inclinedlike, did you like getting your hands
on stuff and, and building and fixing?
You

know, it, it must be, uh, a nature not nurture because I was, um,
I have this really vivid memory of, uh,one of his employees was, was working
on fixing the main board of a TV andI was like, what are you working on?
And he's like, well, I'm trying to fixthe, you know, this, some sort of part
is bad and we don't know which one.

(15:24):
I was like, it looks like that one.
And at, at, you know, I was in elementaryschool, um, I pointed out this part
that to me looked different than allthe other transistors or resistors
or whatever they were on the board.
And sure enough, he pulls it,tests it, and he's like, says to
my, my dad, his nickname is Spot.
So is mine.
He's like, Spot, your kid'sexactly the same as you.

(15:46):
You can just look at itand know what's wrong.
Um, so, uh, you know, I didn'tbuild that skill, right?
Um, and I'm not really using it today,but, uh, yeah, I think that, that, you
know, I have, um, a deep, uh, aptitudefor tinkering, and I, I have done lots
of, uh, other tinkering beyond computersand repair and, and cars and things like
that, and I like working with my hands,but, um, what I've, what I've found as

(16:11):
an entrepreneur is that, uh, working withmy hands will only go so far, and so,
um, to really create the lifestyle I wantto provide my family, I've got to work
on, uh, you know, monetizing decisionsand, um, building an income, uh, in my
life has been dedicated to trying to,uh, build systems and companies that can.

(16:32):
Produce value that's not derivativeof what I do with my hands.
Yeah.
I

Joe Jurec (16:37):
think we, we all self coach or, or at times do things that
are against our instinctive strengtha little bit based on greater need.
Like, have you taken the Colby A index?
I have.
Do you remember what your Colby is off the

top of your head?
I can look it up online.
Um, I don't recall.
I should've let you for that.

Joe Jurec (16:58):
Uh, well, it, I'm willing to bet that the implementer number.
Yeah, you want to just pull it up?
That the implementer number is probablyin the, the two to three range, like
it's funny how, because I'd takenMyers Briggs and DISC and predictive
index and found a lot of value in thosedifferent indexing and assessments.

(17:20):
Colby, really tapping into how youget stuff done, how you take action,
what your natural strengths are.
Is this what your, isthis what it would be?
Yes, yes.
I thought I, I was anticipatingit would be between two and four.
Okay.
It's four.
So wait, your first number.
7, 3, 6, 4.

(17:41):
Yeah, so, I mean, you can almost see theentrepreneurial spirit in it too when
your quick start is higher like that.
Uh, I know with Ron Kaminski, yourimplementer, his almost fell off the
charts where, you know, what that tellsus is somebody's inclination to be
more risk adverse or to jump out of theplane and then put the parachute on.

(18:06):
Uh, and mine is also like a 9.
And at times...
You know, that'll drive some peoplenuts and drive me nuts when somebody
is very different in that action mode,but boy, does it bring great balance.
And that's similar to, you know,with EOS, how there's kind of
that visionary integrator combo.

(18:27):
Uh, and I guess what, whatmade me think of this though,
Andrew, is like when we have.
Uh, an instinctive strength when werealize we need to work against it.
Sometimes it causes more, itcauses cognitive stress, or it
doesn't necessarily bring energythe same way that that stuff does.
So we need to recharge in other ways.

(18:49):
Have you found that in, there's plentyof reasons to do the type of work that
you do, but have you found yourself likeneeding to restore energy in other ways,
or, you know, that it's gratifying foryou in other ways, even though you're
not as hands on with it as maybe nature

would tell you to be.
So I think that, um, I have a naturalgravity to rolling up my sleeves
and trying to do things myself.
And so, um, it goes against my nature totrust people who I hired or promoted to

(19:29):
do a job and, and stay out of the way.
And so a big part of, uh, my growthas a leader has been resisting.
Uh, some things that might be naturaltendencies personally to make the
best decision as a leader for myteam or my teams in the case of,
of, of these, these two companies.
Um, you know, when it comes to, tobalance, um, almost everything I

(19:54):
do outside of, uh, work involvesusing my hands to do things like
woodworking or sailing or, um,you know, I like doing, uh, home
improvement projects, things like that.
So, that's where I sort of, uh, balancethe books on, on strengths and weaknesses.
I, I have sort of hobbiesthat serve that, that itch.

(20:17):
For sure.
Yeah.

Joe Jurec (20:19):
It's cool to identify, uh, that kind of stuff.
And it, it's validatingsometimes in yourself.
And I think what you just said mademe think of learner mindset all day.
And just perpetuallygrowing, learning, adapting.
For the benefit of others, for yourown benefit, and I think that's kind

(20:41):
of a cool segue into talking aboutsome strong leadership, and I would
love your take on peak leadership.
Like, surely there's beensome influences in your life.
It sounds like, while we didn't yetuncover all of them, like, you've had

(21:05):
some pretty cool steps along the way.
I'm guessing that when you think of apeak leadership experience and what you
use as kind of a model for who you wantto be with your teams and who we've
seen you be for multiple companies,like that comes from somewhere.
So we have all of our guests share,you know, their storms and their
peak leadership experience, because Ithink it's, it's helpful to identify

(21:28):
these characteristics and talk about.
Um, you know, what we'restriving to emulate.
And whenever we do this, I likelisteners to kind of do an honest
inventory and self assessment to think,you know, how am I doing in this way?
And am I somebody else's peak leader?
What do I need to do to becomemore people's peak leader?
So you mind opening that up forus a little bit and talking about,

(21:50):
you know, what, what shaped yourmindset, what influenced you,
what peak leadership looks like?

So my first real, um, leadership experience came in,
in the early days of VividFront.
Um, That's, you know, when I had, youknow, 10 plus direct reports and was
growing the team in the early days.
And there's a lot that'scommonplace today.

(22:15):
The world moves very quickly.
That wasn't commonplace 15 years ago.
For example, um, when wewere setting up policies.
Um, initially when, when Istarted VividFront, it was, um,
contractors, subcontractors and me.
Um, and then I brought in a partner andit was the two of us and some contractors
and we had the jump of, of making W 2full time, you know, employment hires.

(22:37):
And the, we, we partnered with, uh,an outsourcing, uh, HR company, a
PEO that does like a payroll agency.
And they were like, sowhat are your policies?
And we were like, we were given like ablank handbook and I had to write like
the policies, like what are the policies?
I'm like, okay.
Thank you.
Um, and I remember this, this, uh,moment where, uh, it's asking all

(23:01):
these questions about, you know, timeoff and bereavement and healthcare and
what's, what does the company pay for?
And, uh, my, my, my recipe, my secretwas, um, well, it's the golden rule.
So what would I want for myself?
That's probably what somebody whoworks with me or for me would want.

(23:21):
Let's just do that.
And so I went through this whole survey.
And I was like, okay, you know, uh,what, what's the time off policy?
It's unlimited.
If you need time off and you're, youcan still do your job otherwise, then
take whatever time off when you need it.
It can be a half day.
It can be a day.
It can be a two week vacation in Europe.
Whatever you need.
Yeah.
For your health and wellnessand mental health, um, take it.

(23:44):
Uh, healthcare, who pays for it?
Well, the company does.
Why should it come out of my paycheck?
I wouldn't want that if I worked here.
So, you know, payingfor all the healthcare.
And I, I submitted it tothe HR outsourcing firm.
And they're like, you know, calling me andthey're like, Are you sure these are the
valid responses that you want us to useto make your official company handbook?
And I was like, yeah.
They're like, well, no one's everfilled it out this way before

(24:06):
written what you've written.
Are you sure?
And I was like, yeah, like, that's great.
That's pretty depressing that otherpeople haven't had this thought,
but, um, that, that was my thought.
And so taking over the last 15 years,um, it's just an overgrowth of, of that
methodology of, of, of the golden rule.
Treat people that work for me orwith me how I'd want to be treated.

(24:30):
And if I use that as my, you know,homing beacon, um, I'll make good
decisions or at least decisionsthat I would be satisfied with.
Maybe not everyone.
And I think in practice, that'sbeen an effective approach because,
um, it's, it's audience based.
So I, I'm a marketingperson, uh, by nature.
And I think about who's looking ata logo, who's reading a piece of,

(24:53):
of copy, who's visiting a website.
And so, um, that'saudience oriented thinking.
And so I just took thesame approach intuitively.
Um, and I think that is really simplewhen you say it out loud, but, but
in practice it's been, um, a reallyeffective strategy of leadership.

(25:15):
And it's one that I still, it's, it'smy go to today is what would I do?
What would I want done to me orwith me or for me if I was on
the other end of this decision,

Joe Jurec (25:24):
right?
I love it.
I mean, it's empathyand it's, and it's fine.
That's right for it.
Yeah.
You think about like, there iskind of a superhuman Ability for
those that can really anticipateneeds of others, can really put
themselves in somebody else's shoes.
Are you familiar with thefundamental attribution error?
Have you heard of this before?

(25:44):
Sounds familiar.
Okay, so, uh, this is one that we, wetalk about in our, uh, workshop on trust.
Because we so often, whenthere's issues with others, we
attribute it to character flaws.
When there's issues with ourselves, weattribute it to circumstance or situation.
You know, we give ourselvesmore benefit of the doubt.

(26:06):
And this wasn't, this isn'tsomething that's just in the U.
S., it's global, it's kind ofhardwired in us, it's innate.
So, that awareness and that ability toreally think what somebody else is going
through, like we're humans to connect.
You know, we see giving feedback andleading and coaching, the most effective

(26:29):
ways come when there's connection,belonging, and high standards.
And empathy, like you hear it over andover again, but it's not something you
can just manufacture, but it is somethingyou can, you know, get better at.
You can grow your awareness aroundand take intentional efforts to
apply more empathy to your, yourleadership, your way of thinking.

(26:51):
And it sometimes is that simple, right?
It's.
So, so much that we talk about andso much in, in leadership and just
people in general is simple, butnot easy to do with consistency.
Right.
Uh, but I, I love that sentiment.
So is there, how, how about anyother, like influences, coach,

(27:17):
mentor, teacher, family member?
Uh, it sounds like you're, you got quitea bit from, you know, both of your parents
that they influenced you and probablyserved as peak leaders in a lot of ways.
Anything else that, that comes to mind,uh, as far as like some of the, some
of the traits that you most admire?
When I got

to college at Ohio State University, um, I, I started
a business, uh, in the summer ofmy freshman year, which is online
food ordering business, um, for OhioState and, and Columbus residents.
Um, it also included, uh, amarketplace for, for bar specials

(27:57):
and other advertising thatwas non, non food and drink.
And.
We built the platform, um, tohave not just an online ordering
feature, but also advertising.
And so we've had to sell our serviceof online ordering to every restaurant,
bar, or corporation, um, that, thatwe could to make the business viable.

(28:19):
And so we had, you know, dozensand dozens of, uh, of clients.
You have some archetypes of businessowners, um, on a, on a college campus.
Um, you have a guy who went to schooland maybe never graduated and was working
at a pizza place and now owns the shop.

(28:39):
Um, you have someone who's aprofessional restaurateur who picked
this, this audience as a high volume,you know, location to run a business.
Um, you have a franchise businessthat is owned by a franchisee that
has a hundred stores and we weremeeting with the general manager of
that location, you know, who used tobe a busboy and worked his way up.

(29:01):
Um, Corporations like Domino'sthat we worked with their
corporate, you know, uh, nationalleadership to, to sell advertising.
Um, I came across many versionsof, of business owner and, uh,
entrepreneur and, and, and leader.
And so, um, when I think back to thingsthat have shaped me as a person and what

(29:24):
have I, you know, who have I learnedfrom and what have I learned from
them, um, I had a number of businessowners that took me under their wing.
And that client vendor relationship thatI learned a lot from, um, and in fact,
uh, one of them who was a loyal client ofmy online ordering business, sloopymenus.

(29:46):
com, um, was one of myfirst three customers.

Joe Jurec (29:50):
Hang on Sloopy.
Oh, I like that.
I see the OSU tie it.
Um,

it was like a way to like, to not break a trademark because, uh,
Hang on Sloopy, the song was, uh, theintellectual property has had long since
expired from the original songwriter.
Um, but it was very Ohio State,but you couldn't, you know, call
it Buckeye Menus, you'd get sued.
Um, so we, uh, uh, when I launchedFividfront, um, basically a year after

(30:19):
I had sold the Sleepy Menus onlineordering business, um, One of my first
three clients was one of my clientsfrom Sleepy Venue as a restaurant
owner who, uh, who, you know, was, wasvery happy to support my next move.
And in the years when he had been mycustomer then and in the years when
he had been my customer in onlineordering, um, he was, uh, took his time

(30:42):
to explain decisions and why he woulddo things or what he would say yes
to, what he would say no to and why.
Um, so I was lucky to havea lot of mentorship in.
Um, people that were older than me asa 19 year old kid trying to sell every
restaurant in town down a contract.
Um, and it was also interesting at thattime in 2005, uh, we delivered online

(31:03):
orders by fax to the restaurants.
And so there were some restaurantsthat had digital point of sale
systems made by like micros or Aloha.
Um, they could technicallyfetch some file on an FTP site.
Right.
But

Joe Jurec (31:18):
people didn't have iPads and weren't running, uh, Swyper, Toast, and...

No.
Correct.
And most of them had, you know, um, a,a pad of paper that was like NCR paper.
And when you fold the backing underthe first two or three layers...
You write down the order, you geta, a ticket for billing, a ticket
for the kitchen, and a ticketfor your books, for your records.
And that's how orders were taken.
Um, and even the restaurantsthat had digital point of sale

(31:44):
systems, they might not even beusing them for more than payments.
Right.
At the register.
Um, so, you know, we were, wewere innovating technology, um,
delivering online orders, thisbrave new world of e commerce.
Um, and then delivering it withwhatever method we could, which
was, which was fax machines.
Um, so we would, uh, have to have theseconversations with owners and managers

(32:07):
and entrepreneurs of these restaurants.
And, uh, it was a really formativeexperience for me because you're, you're
building trust and you're like the youngwhippersnapper talking to some guy who's
my parents age who owns the business.
Yeah.
And, uh, that was, thatwas really big for me.
That's awesome.

Joe Jurec (32:23):
Uh, just that you, uh, that you built that and during that timeframe
where there, there's a lot of innovation.
That comes with it.
Uh, just working through.
Whatever the barriers are to say, no,there's probably a better way to do this.
Uh, on the, on the mention of beingfortunate enough to get exposed to some,

(32:46):
some mentors, having some other businessowners who invest time sharing wisdom
and such, there's, it doesn't surpriseme because I, I, in my experience, those
with a learner mindset, those who havehumility, and I think many people without
even consciously realizing respond allthe time with, Oh, I know, I know, I know.

(33:11):
And you're not as inclined to investtime, like our most fleeting resource,
into sharing wisdom, into going outof your way to try to help somebody
learn and understand and grow, ifthey don't have that learner mindset.
And this is something we talk aboutall the time, that, look, you got to

(33:33):
keep it even later in your career.
You know, this knower versus learner.
Sure, you want to be somebody who can findsolutions, who can, has, has knowledge on
Your product or your craft or what haveyou, but it's often so much more valuable
to just ask questions and listen, right?

(33:54):
And you'll be surprised what you can learnfrom whether it be adversity in a bad
situation Or if you're fortunate enoughto have some people around you that see
that and then realize hey It's it's worthmy time because this kid or this guy or
whomever Actually gives a shit and youknow cares enough to to want to know and

(34:15):
to listen There's something to that Right.
And for a lot of our audience areemerging leaders and those in kind
of middle career roles and that feltworth kind of pointing out just that
learner mindset, how valuable it can bethroughout all stages of your career.

(34:37):
And I call attention to it becauseyou've said three or four things
that just make me think of that man.
Like, I think that's probablygot to be a big part of.
Who you are and why you've beenable to do what you've done.
And I'd like to, uh, I want to carveout some time at the end to really get
into HR Signal, but I want to know more.

(35:00):
I mentioned a moment ago abouthow you also learn from adversity.
We also, you know, you grow throughwhat you go through in a sense, right?
And the essence of this podcast istalking about courageous leadership.
It's talking about charging into thestorm, dealing with the Uncomfortable,
uncertain, unfamiliar things head on,instead of taking the seemingly more

(35:26):
comfortable path and often letting thosethings become bigger and worse that you
ultimately have to go through anyway.
So let's, let's touch on that.
What, what storms have you kind ofcharged into that are most notable?
Are there one or two times that cometo mind that you were uncertain?

(35:50):
And you, you felt like you couldgo two different paths and you
chose one that was seemingly moredifficult and got a better outcome

from it.
So, um, after I sold the onlineordering business, um, I was approached
kind of during and alongside thatsale, uh, by a family friend.
And he had a lighting and homefurnishings, uh, showroom, which was
carrying the best minds, the best,uh, lighting products out there.

(36:19):
And so, um, we partnered together, uh,formed a new company to do what I had
done in online food ordering for, forrestaurants in the business of lighting.
Um, at the time you had to walk intoa showroom and if you wanted a lamp,
ceiling fan, a chandelier, you'deither point to it, if it was there,

(36:40):
the, you know, 1% of items that theystocked or, or showed in the showroom.
And if not, you'd be sitting withsome three ring binder or catalog.
Um, flipping through stuff untilyou find what you want, but it may
not be pictured in the finish orwith the colors that you wanted.
Uh, and so we wanted to digitize andbring the type of innovation we had
done in food ordering, uh, to thespace of, uh, of, of home decorating.

(37:05):
And so we launched, uh, a new company,uh, digitized a catalog of almost 50
different manufacturers products, uh, morethan 140, 000 SKUs, um, which are items.
And all of a sudden, we had a business,uh, running, you know, e commerce
sales in an industry where we wouldreceive them and have to then fax, you

(37:30):
know, lots of faxing, lots of faxing.
This is the fax of life.
So, um, touche.
We, uh, uh, we, we were doing great.
And then sort of halfway through ourfirst year, um, the 2008, 2009, you know,
Lehman Brothers, Uh, mortgage bankingcrisis, uh, sort of rained out upon the U.

(37:54):
S.
economy, and the result was an allbut complete shutdown of the housing
market in terms of like, uh, gettingmortgages and people buying houses.
And then, uh, the commercial creditindustry, which finances construction and
then restructures it once it's occupiedfor like long term rentals or condos.
Um, that had also, which isa market we were selling to,

(38:16):
had, had, had been impacted.
Yeah.
And so we sort of had a, um, a phaseof building, digitizing a catalog,
you know, reinventing an industry.
Then we launched the business andthen we were operating the business.
And then boom, uh, one day.
Uh, we didn't get any ordersacross six different businesses,
six different websites.
Yikes.

(38:37):
And, uh, we didn't getan order the next day.
The next day, I think it was abouttwo, two and a half weeks went by.
No business.
Um, I was a year out of college, hadalready started the company, you know.
Um, and then now I'm like, Oh mygosh, like the sky is falling.

(38:57):
Um, what are we going to do?
And that was, uh, I think it wouldmeet your definition of a storm.
And we were at this juncture whereno one really knew how long it would
be until the economy recovered.
Right.
Um, there were still proceedingshappening with the government
and all of this, uh, bailout.

(39:18):
And.
I felt powerless to the macroeconomicsituation of housing and government
decisions and the behavior of, youknow, everyone else in the world, uh,
how they were reacting to this crisis.
And so I decided to offer my, my businesspartner, um, to take back my half of the

(39:41):
business without buying it because I feltlike my time was the most valuable asset.
And so sitting and waitingfor the world economy.
Or at least the U.
S.
economy to recover did not seemlike a use of my time that was,
was worth it at that point.
When you can pull all

Joe Jurec (39:59):
sorts of levers and it's still not make a sizable impact.
If you're, if you're down to zeroorders for weeks, yeah, I get it.
Yeah.

Um, he took my offer, um, and I had to reset my life.
And so I entered a new stormof no business, no job.
Um, and I had investedresources that I had into.
You know, getting to that point.
So, uh, I conveniently had had thenon solicitation expire on the food

(40:28):
business, online ordering business,and I was able to reach out and
send a solicitation, so to speak, tocontacts and clients that I'd had.
And I said, listen, I, uh, I startedanother business in lighting.
But the housing market whereit is, this is, uh, you know,
not, not a good situation.
So I've decided to get into anew line of business and, uh,

(40:51):
for now I'm offering consulting.
I can do marketing, consulting,business, consulting, logos, websites,
e commerce, whatever you need.
Yeah.
I need work.
Um, unbeknownst to me in that momentof, of, of crisis of storm, um, the rest
of the economy was pretty darn healthy.
And so what I thought was adark moment macroeconomically.

(41:15):
Um, was only a dark momentmacroeconomically for one industry or two
industries like housing and construction,um, and financial services, but the rest
of the economy was, was doing great.
And so, uh, I got more interestwhen I reached out to my
Rolodex than I'd expected.
And that forced me toimmediately, um, hire contractors.

(41:38):
Uh, execute the work with help, and,uh, six months later, I decided to
incorporate Vivid, or maybe fourmonths later, uh, to incorporate
VividFront and, and start an agency.
It's

Joe Jurec (41:49):
still around today.
Still around today.
And doing quite well.
And growing.
In fact, we, I mentioned you'rea client of ours, you're a
CultureShoc, we're clients of yours.
Uh, with Viverfront.
And we're grateful for that.
Thank you.
For your business.
Yeah, for sure.
Wow.
So it definitely storm worthy, Andrew,I would say, because there's, it

(42:10):
seems like quite a few differentpaths you could have taken there.
And I'm guessing the one that you didprobably wasn't the most comfortable.
I imagine it was scaryand painful at times.
And I can relate, like when you weredescribing that, it made me think
of the similar, similar timeframefor me, uh, prior to CultureShoc.

(42:32):
And it's, it's often those times thatare scariest, in the moment, that
when we look back, we're, we're mostgrateful for doing the difficult thing.
Trusting our body, and kind ofcharging forward, saying I'm not
going to just wait for this tohappen to me or let it happen to me.

(42:52):
I'm gonna, you know, grab the wheeland, you know, kind of write my own.
future.
So I'm glad that you, uh,that you chose that path.
I think as, as noted, there are acouple of different storms there.
And look, this, this mentality,it's, we didn't create courageous

(43:16):
leadership by any means.
Uh, but by identifying it, I thinkthat's often the trick is noticing when
you're at this crossroads of these twodifferent paths and have it, having the
awareness to say, this is going to suck.
But this is what my instinctsare telling me to do, right?

(43:39):
That's a good one.
So I'm, I'm hard pressed to pressyou for more, but I'm guessing
with as much as you've done,like, what else comes to mind?
So another time you, you chargedinto the storm or, uh, perhaps even,
you know, realized after you shouldhave, but I'm sure there's plenty of
storms with your, your journey so far.
So what, any other ones

you got?
Through a friend, I wasintroduced to my co founder in
HR Signal, and he had the idea.
to leverage big data to predict who's mostlikely to look for their next position.
And we, uh, began, uh, that, thatidea, that, that concept by building

(44:21):
an MVP, uh, and a prototype totest this, this big data concept.
His background, uh, AI researchand senior data scientist at a
venture backed software company.
Um, and so him and I, we eachbrought a, a partner to the table.
Um, he brought his, his coworker,who is an even more talented, uh,

(44:43):
data scientist and, and mathematicsand AI person, uh, named Daniel.
Um, and my co founder Sagi and I, we,we, I brought, uh, Aaron, uh, to my,
uh, to the partnership and he was anexperienced leader, um, having also
sold a company to private equity.
So the four of us were originally workingon recruiting, um, AI, basically, could

(45:05):
you predict who is most recruitable?
And so that was the, theidea that started HR Signal.
And at the time, um, weweren't yet, uh, incorporated.
Um, so this was, uh, you know, justfour people working together on an idea.
And we were doing a case study on ouralgorithm, trying to train it better.

(45:29):
And we, this is in the fall of2020 after COVID had started.
Um, we predicted that, uh, a lotmore people were ready for their next
position, um, likely to turn over, uh,than, than had in, in prior months.
And so we argued with each other,we're like, who broke the algorithm?
You know, what was the lastcode commitment we did?

(45:51):
Um, this can't be right and we werepredicting like more than 50% of people
in this case study were, were, weregoing to look for their next job.
And this is at the time that we're likeincorporating, uh, HR signal or maybe we
had just filed like a C Corp in Delaware.
And we analyzed and analyzedand analyzed and we're like,

(46:13):
wow, like what's wrong here?
And, and, and it wasn't wrong.
And so what we had uncovered wasthe early indication of a storm
that was coming in the labor market.
We had seen that people from Marchof 2020, when COVID 19 began through,
this was like November, December.
Um, people had mostly frozen intheir careers in the sense that

(46:36):
maybe there were some furloughsor maybe you weren't furloughed.
Uh, but everyone was really in the sameposition they had been in, in March.

Joe Jurec (46:43):
Not a lot of promotions or movement happening.

Yeah.
I mean, unless one hit because of yourannual or something like that, but for
the most part, um, people had stagnated.
And so one of the factors that ouralgorithm looks at is how many months
on average each job title is typicallyheld in a region, in a company, whatever.
Uh, and this, you know, one and ahalf million people that we were doing

(47:07):
this case study on, uh, had stagnated.
Most of them had stagnated.
And that sent our algorithm, uh, intothis tizzy of like, you know, these
people have been in this role for alot longer than their peers ever were.
So we, uh.
Took a look at ourselves and a lookat the data and we're like, you

(47:27):
know, let's step back from thiswhole situation and okay So there's
something happening in the labor market.
We think that a lot of people are gonnachange jobs because they've stagnated
Obviously as they do change jobswill be a huge boom of the recruiting
industry Well, we have this data.
We now know that it capable of makingvery predictive very powerful judgments

(47:51):
What do we want to do with our lives?
And I at the time this was I'm 13 yearsinto running vivid front Um, I'm already,
I already had, uh, professional helpwith EOS in the form of CultureShoc.
And our leadership team had really taken,um, that next step to, to removing me

(48:11):
from as much of the day to day operations.
And so, um, I had a decision to makesort of with my commitment level to
HRSignal and the combination of predictingsomething that we had high conviction
that was going to happen, which was agreat Turnover event, um, and the fact
that I was at a point where I had a teamI could trust to take over even more of my

(48:35):
responsibilities, um, I decided to really,uh, accelerate this plan of leaving
day to day operations of VividFront,um, and focusing more on HRSignal.
Uh, what happened nextwas the great resignation.
And so...
We had predicted

Joe Jurec (48:54):
it, we saw this earthquake coming, uh, far, far before
anyone else had it on the Richterchart or Richter scale, right?

Felt pretty good to, uh, to be right.
And we were fortunate to have thisphase of our startup where we had
an MVP, we had a beta product.
We were making these predictions at atime when you did not in a, in a, in
a startup traditional sense, right?
Especially software technology startups.

(49:22):
It's like, here's this problemyou didn't know you have and, and
here's our solution you didn'tknow you need to solve it, right?
That's like many startupsfall into that category.
No doubt.
Um, but this wasn't the case for us.
Here's this problem.
It's every headline ofevery newspaper everywhere.
And you know that it's expensivebecause you just had, you 5% of your

(49:45):
workforce quit in the last 30 days.
Oh yeah.
To take another job.
So we didn't have to convinceanybody that was a problem.
We had to convince anybody thatwas an expensive problem to solve.
Uh, and so we were lucky tohave this moment where, uh, we
could get in front of anybody.
We could send any email or LinkedInmessage and I would say, Hey, if I
could predict who is most likely tolook for the next job before they

(50:07):
give you their two week notice, doyou want to talk to me about that?
And of course you get a lot of yeses.
And so we had, um, the dramaticinfluence of, uh, a lot of people
willing to talk to us and provide us.
Feedback on their job as HR leadersand turnover and the nature of it.
And so I was able to get a crash coursein HR and the industry, uh, really rapidly

(50:31):
in 2021 that has positioned us for this,you know, uh, place we are today as a
company at HR signal, providing predictiveanalytics and, and knowing sort of how
they can be used inside of companies.
Um, and so, yeah, that, that storm of thegreat resignation is really the crucible.
That HR signal was born out of.

Joe Jurec (50:52):
It's, it's incredible.
And I do feel like the starsaligned a bit with timing, but you
also rearrange them yourself by.
Predicting and then adjusting it.
You have to reserve the rightto change your mind based on new
data, based on new information.

(51:14):
And sometimes that's the storm, right?
And look, it's no mystery.
There's been so much research,so much talk over the past few
years about, like, culture isn'tjust this fluffy feel good stuff.
It's truly the center of yourorganization, like the leaders drive the

(51:34):
culture, the culture is what's going todetermine the well being, the livelihood,
the results, uh, from your workforce.
And with the Great Resignation, you startto see this demand for companies to shift
and to pay more attention to core valuesbeing lived instead of just in onboarding

(51:55):
and to healthy leadership practicesthat would make people want to stay.
And, you know, there, there's often youhear it all the time, but you can hear
it dating back to like the twentiesof nobody wants to work anymore.
And, you know, people don't have thesame work ethic that they once did.
And I, I think a lot of these changes havebeen for the right reasons and positive.

(52:20):
And frankly, a lot of the issueswere because of poor leadership.
HR signal.
When you first showed it to me and gaveme a demo in this room a month or two ago,
like I haven't stopped thinking about it.
And, uh, I've told quite a few peopleabout it because having those sort

(52:43):
of insights, like when I was leadinga company, it's invaluable to know
this is kind of how I stack up.
It's a good indicator of oursuccess and that could come in handy
for, you know, sales, mergers andacquisitions and things like that.
But also, more importantly,from my standpoint is.

(53:06):
A better pulse of your peopleand understanding like where
to, where to go to retain them.
Because I, I am a believer and we talkabout all the time at CultureShoc that the
best investment is in your current people.
It's not spending more in hiringand attracting more talent.
Like if you create the culture, you'regoing to retain and attract better

(53:29):
talent, but invest in the people thatyou have to strengthen your culture.
An HR signal is a tool and justpacked full of insights that I've
not seen something else really give.
So, that's why I was eager to kindof continue the dialogue and looked
at how, how can these, what we do tohelp leaders and help companies with

(53:52):
culture and what you've in your teamhave built, like how can they complement
each other and to make sure that peoplehave a good understanding because You
know, I, I knew it prior to today, buttaking that conversation fully from the
storm that you went through to now theformation, the introducing the world to

(54:15):
HRSignal, give us the elevator pitch.
Like tell us in the simplified ownerversion of, of this organization and the,
the need for it or the, or the pain itsolves, like how would you describe it?
How would you tell people about it?

So HRSignal is a, is a software platform that gives leadership
in HR or company leadership at largean advantage by understanding and
predicting the most likely career pathfor everyone at the company and when
they will seek that next position.
And so we've consolidated allof the features you need in that

(54:57):
role of retaining talent anddeveloping talent in one place.
So Number one, the thing that gotthe company started, we predict who's
most likely to look for the nextjob, but then we pair it with bespoke
analytics for every employee thatbenchmark how someone is comparing
to their peers in their career path.
So that's based on the positionthey're in, the positions

(55:18):
they've held, their education.
And then we also providemarket data, such as how much.
They should be paid in their regionbased on the average in that region,
how much hiring is happening, and howmuch demand for hiring is happening for
their position in their region, and thenusing our corpus of data, which is more
than 400 million people across more than10 million companies, what is the most

(55:42):
likely next position that they wouldhave based on the experience they've
had in their current position, pastpositions, education, and everything.
And so All of that in one placeenables someone who is interested in
developing and retaining their team.
All the tools are in one place.
And instead of, uh, having to huntaround for everything you need

(56:02):
to be prepared to have a greatconversation with somebody, we have
consolidated all of it in one system.
And so, um, sort of the, the hook orthe silver bullet is that we can predict
a lot of HR outcomes with people,with departments, with physicians,
with whole offices, whole companies.
Bye.
The utility is in the day to day, dayto day operation of serving your people

(56:24):
and supporting them and, and performancereviews and talent development meetings,
um, supplementing those with theinformation that at your fingertips, maybe
that was a long elevator ride, but yeah,

Joe Jurec (56:36):
well said and well explained because it's something that, that warrants
some focus, some attention, like whenwe talk about retention, we talk about
identifying who is most important.
Or like who's at risk and some of thethings there, let's just get straight

(57:00):
into some of the objections that youmight've heard or some of the concerns
like, where's this data coming from?
And if somebody's, you know, job isat stake in a sense, or, you know,
if the data wasn't accurate, there,I know you take this seriously and
there's an altruistic, you know,purpose in this, but it could cause

(57:24):
some issues if it was giving indicationthat we're way off the mark, right?
I mean.
Overcome those for me, or just tellme, like, as you've thought through
the concerns and objections, what,uh, you know, what precautions you've

taken.
Uh, in the most sort of root ofentry explanation of what we do,
um, there's, there's two things.
One is telling you who you should go havea state interview with each, each week.
Um, our platform will generate alertsand tell you who to go talk to.
Um, the other thing, the secondthing is being prepared for those

(58:00):
conversations with an employee.
And so...
All that we're really trying to do issay, okay, um, when you went to hire
somebody, uh, you ask them questions.
Do you like what you'redoing in your current job?
What do you want to bedoing a year from now?
Two years from now?
Five years from now?

(58:20):
What do you want more of onyour plate to help you grow?
What do you want less of on your plate?
Where do you feel like you're a naturaland what's a struggle for you to do?
Strengths and weaknesses.
Um, then you get hired.
And then.
Each year you have an annual performancereview and your manager, and in most
companies, I'm speaking in a majoritysense, uh, they're going to look at

(58:42):
your sick days, they're going to lookat your 360 peer feedback, they're
going to look at some of the goals thatthey might have talked about in the
last meeting, and probably before youstepped into that room or they stepped
into that room, there was a decision.
This is what your comp's going to be.
This is the role you mayor may not be offered.
This is sort of your next step.
And so people, Um, get that once ayear and because they get that once

(59:07):
a year, you come into that meetingwith nerves, you come into it with
your own narrative of what you thinkmight happen or what you would say
if your supervisor says this or that.
And what we have noticed andwhat the industry, um, is sort
of the rule is, is that you havethese conversations once a year.
So we're saying, okay,that's, that's fine.

(59:29):
You know, keep doing that.
But.
Um, there's certain points intime when people are likely
looking for their next position.
So how do we come to that conclusion?
Well, we look at three differenttypes of data, or in 200 data points
fall into these three categories.
One, we look at peer.
When I say peer, what I mean is wehave 400 million public resumes and

(59:52):
career histories that we've acquired,and we look at that to understand how.
is a typical name of a position,how long are they at a company?
What position do they havebefore they got to that position?
What position do they get to next?
And how long are theyin those positions for?
What education along the way,um, drives those outcomes?

(01:00:16):
And so we've analyzed this more than400 million person data set anonymously.
Looking at the parts of it thatmatter to our algorithm, which
is what position, which company,for how long, et cetera, city.
Those are

Joe Jurec (01:00:28):
indicators of healthy culture or likelihood of retention

Andrew Spott (01:00:34):
or...
So we know, for example, that,um, if you're a sales person,
you're in a sales role, accountexecutive, sales executive, whatever.
Um, we know through the data thatmost likely most people who are sales
managers were not promoted from thatpod of team members that were sales

(01:00:55):
producers because, well, a couple things.
One is cultural reasons why,like it's hard to become
the boss of your colleagues.
Um, the other is becausethey're different skill sets.
So one is a managementsupervisor role, sales manager.
The other is you have to be reallygood with people and with explaining

(01:01:16):
and follow up and, you know, uh,reciprocity and, and, uh, consistency.
Um, so if you are a, uh, salesperson andyou've been in a job for say, I don't
know offhand what this number is, but sayyou've been in this job for 36 months.
But in, uh, in general, thisjust job title, most people

(01:01:41):
are in the job for 27 months.
And so it's, you've been therefor longer than your peers.
Um, that starts to matter becausepeople either grow typically in a sales
career, you grow in seniority, whichmeans you have a bigger base salary
and lower commission as time goes on.
Uh, or you leave few people, at leastin our data, for example, have been at.

(01:02:05):
In the same sales representativerole for, say, 20 years.
So, that's one of 200 factors.
That's, that's pure data.
Um, another categoryof data is public data.
The government, whether it'sthe BLS, the IRS, or the SEC, is
publishing a wealth of information.
about labor markets, about regional,uh, labor markets, different roles,

(01:02:29):
different positions, different types ofemployers, private, public, and otherwise.
And we were able to analyze that data.
Largely macro, some of it micro,um, to correlate it to outcomes.
So, ultimately, our algorithm is taking,um, those two factors and adding a

(01:02:50):
third factor, which is market data.
So, we buy salary data, we buydata, various sources of salary
data, and we also buy job data.
How many jobs are posted foreach position in each city?
And how long do they take to fill?
Those two points help us tounderstand supply and demand.
So, the supply is the numberof people that are holding a

(01:03:15):
position, and we have that, right?
Because we're, we're analyzing thiscorpus of public resumes of everyone
in the North, in North America,and, and some of Western Europe
and some other countries as well.
Uh, that helps us to know how manypeople hold a position, and then we
can see the current price for thatposition, which is the current average
salary, and then we can see how manypeople are posting ads for that position

(01:03:38):
in the city where someone's located.
Hmm.
So three buckets of data, there'shundreds of factors that are
fitting into those buckets.
And over time our algorithm, andwhat we've produced, is looking at
those factors and making predictions.
And then we correlate it to the datathat's behind the, uh, algorithm to figure

(01:04:01):
out which ones are having correlation.
Now we don't have causation.
We don't know.
That somebody had a bad conversationwith a supervisor and quit, and
that was unrelated to anything.
So there's some noise in the data,but directionally we're accurate.
Meaning, uh, when we tell oneof our customers through an
alert in our platform, go talkto this person, we're right.

(01:04:23):
Better than a coin flip.
Far better than a coin flip.
And so that's, that's how that works.
Now, um, people will say, you know, well,is this, uh, You know, what are you doing?
Is it invasive?
And it's completely not.
In fact, we are GDPR, CCPA, Bill 64 inCanada compliant because the only data
that we touch is, is either this publicdata, which is data that's already

(01:04:47):
published by governments or companies or,um, people's resumes that they put online.
Uh, and what we don't dois look at your emails.
We don't look at your attendance.
We don't have any accessto that information.
And so in the space ofemployee retention software.
There's really likefour types of companies.
So, number one, and most common,is employee sentiment software.

(01:05:11):
That is surveys, where you'rebeing texted or, or sent an email.
Um, how do you feel about your job today?
Um, very few people are going touse that as your medium to say, I
don't like my boss, or I don't thinkthat my last performance review went

Joe Jurec (01:05:27):
well.
The likelihood of a candidresponse, probably not too

high, pretty low.
Um, then you have data analysis.
So, companies that integratewith an HR system and look at all
the data that we don't look at.
Demographics, age, um, spousal status,dependents, uh, benefits, uh, performance,
um, peer reviews, things like that.

(01:05:51):
Uh, it's a better look at data that youalready have, and maybe you're not as
good at looking at as this software is.
Third category would be spyware.
Uh, there's a lot of workforcemonitoring softwares that became
very popular during the pandemic,focused on remote workforces.
Like, is this person sittingat home doing any work?
keylogging.

(01:06:16):
That's the right way to improve culture.
Right.
It's big brother.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
Um, and so the fourthcategory is predictive AI.
And so we're using, um, and, and sortof, uh, uh, the biggest way possible,
as much as we possibly can, uh, of datathat is non invasive and is non private.

(01:06:36):
Um, not breaching anyone'sconfidence or confidentiality
or, or things that they don't.
I wouldn't want anyone else to know,right, which is like, your employer
has a lot of that information, right?
If you have a, if you have a disease,or if you are paying alimony, right?
Things like that.
We don't look at anything like that.
And so, uh, we're this fourthcategory of, of ethical predictive AI.

(01:06:57):
For those

Joe Jurec (01:06:57):
listening, like, when you think about how much turnover costs your
company, with all the studies that havebeen done about the average cost of, you
know, onboarding a new employee and...
Uh, the loss of performance duringthat time and all those factors,
like it's, it's mind blowing.
It's in part informed our stanceon invest in your humans, invest in

(01:07:23):
your people to keep them, to developthem, to demonstrate that you're
committed to their longterm growth.
If you had a snapshot of every employeein your organization that, with a way
better than a coin flip, fairly highdegree of certainty, told you those were
at highest risk of leaving, does it giveyou some, it gives you some sort of a

(01:07:46):
time frame too, right, of predicted,these are more urgent than others?
is

the high urgency ones.
That, wouldn't

Joe Jurec (01:07:56):
that be a game changer?
Doesn't that just, it, it...
And from that, you're notrecommending, Hey, go fire this person.
You're saying, go talk to them.
Like, what that recommendation is...
A stay interview.
A stay

interview.
Yeah.
We provide a template if mostemployers have one already, but...
And

Joe Jurec (01:08:13):
sometimes it is as simple as that.
We talked before this kickedoff about being anonymous
is the killer of engagement.
People not being seen, not being heard.
That's right.
Involved.
And...
Simply that conversation or stay interviewcan go a really long way and the data,

the data is interesting.
So, uh, you know, we lookat these outcomes, right?
Like we made a prediction,what's the outcome?
The biggest leverage point on the outcomeafter we make the prediction is just
whether or not our customer goes andhas that stay interview conversation.
It doesn't, it matters, but itdoesn't matter nearly as much

(01:08:55):
what was said, what wasn't said.
Whether or not they are gettingpromoted, or a raise, or any sort
of change in responsibilities, allof that has less of an impact on the
outcome than just the conversation.
Why?
That's what I said before.
People have this conversationsometimes only once in their
employment history with an employer,which is before they were hired.

(01:09:19):
And so prompting that is a very specialthing and it's being prompted not
because you're in trouble, not becauseit's your anniversary of being hired,
but because your employer cares.
They want you to be still employed there.
They want you to be happy.
And that intent is felt whenyou have that state interview.
When you

Joe Jurec (01:09:35):
do a once a year performance review, like I, I've
been a partisan, very poorly given.
I've given some poor performance reviews.
You know, when I was first, I jumped intoa, my first leadership role when I was 23.
It feels almost robotic and just, it'sperceived as so negative because the
stigma around it is, all right, it'sthe, I'm either going into this thinking

(01:09:58):
I, I better be getting this raise.
Or.
You know, oh, great.
I'm going to get told allthe things I'm doing wrong.
And the companies I've been a part of whotook that approach rather than doing them
more consistently, you know, it was almostthat naive thought of, well, everyone
knows where they stand at all times.
Like, we don't need to do this.

(01:10:19):
And just that simple attention and careenough to carve out someone at one time.
Like, I was always a big fan of thecaught you doing something good,
pull you off to the side, give youthe compliment, the acknowledgement.
With EOS, we talked.
Often about a quarterlycheck in with each person.
And we make a effort to doit in an atypical setting.

(01:10:45):
So like get out of your space.
It should feel nothinglike a performance review.
Do not sit across the desk from eachother where it is confrontational.
Not

recorded, no notes.
Yeah, go

Joe Jurec (01:10:55):
walk.
If you can go walk outside.
And just have a conversation,say, how you doing?
Like, what do you thinkyou're doing well in?
Where do you think youneed to focus more effort?
Where can I help you?
What, what ideas do you have?
What, if you just go ask somebodyquestions without even giving them much

(01:11:16):
feedback, as long as you've set goodexpectations and your questions are
about how they're, how they and youare living up to those expectations,
it can make just a huge difference.
It's again, Simple doesn't seemeasy because we're all so busy.
There's so never enough time and I'mjust not great with time management

(01:11:38):
because we're exposed to so many thingson a daily basis now, but we make
time for the things that matter mostand our people should be number one.
And whenever we hear a leader or a managersay, I just don't have time for that.
It's like, look, you, you kind of need tofill that in your calendar first, right?
Make time to truly connect.

(01:11:58):
And have a conversation, ask afew questions with your people
to pulse check, see how they'redoing and show that you care.

One thing that's interesting about, uh, what you just mentioned
is, uh, so one, one revision I wouldmake, there's a fly in this room, so.
It's, it's persistent.
We're all doing a great job of ignoringit except with the little guys, but, um,
somewhere there must be a banana in here.
Uh, the, uh, no bananas, um, we instructour customers to have this day interview

(01:12:31):
conducted by either someone from HR.
Or boss's boss, because so many timeswhat comes out in a candid conversation,
such as the 90 day check in with theOS or our stay interview is perhaps
some feedback that no one's heardbefore about a supervisor dynamic,

(01:12:51):
which can be between 40 and 70% ofthe reasons why people leave jobs.
You know, you always hear, you don'tleave companies, you leave people loss.
So, um, we'll get the pushbackof, well, I don't have.
You know, if I'm talking to like anHR person, I don't have time, but
right now it's the supervisors dothat as like, well, who hires their

(01:13:14):
replacement, like who's interviewingthe first wave of Canada before the
supervisor gets to meet your top three.
Um, what do you want to do more of?
You know, do you want to haveone occasional conversation as
prompted by our platform or do youwant your, you have 20% turnover?
So.
Uh, you know, one in fivepeople, uh, every year you're,

(01:13:39):
you're doing 30 interviews.
So, uh, choose your destiny, right?
And, and so that's, that's been,um, a good, a good pushback.
And then, uh, the other thing thatI wanted to say, which is unique
to EOS, and if every company ran onEOS, I don't think HRSignal would
have as big of a market to go after.
Uh, you know, oftentimes, at least in theimplementation we've had at VividFront.

(01:14:00):
The quarterly conversationis not necessarily done by a
supervisor, but by the, the headof that department or function.
And so, by nature, um, the quarterlyconversation is taking place with
some distance between a person andtheir, and their supervisor, which,
especially if it's a walk off site,um, invites a lot of candid feedback.

(01:14:21):
Uh, and oftentimes, that type ofcandid feedback can only be acted on
if it's given, In a, in a moment likethat where someone feels safe and
vulnerable and it gives the employersomething that they can address.
And sometimes, you know,I, I tell the story a lot.
Sometimes supervisors are, areharmful to their direct report,

(01:14:41):
um, not out of bad intentions, butan intent to do their job well.
So back to the sales manager example,uh, say you were talking about
promoting a sales person on a salesteam and you were the sales manager.
Why would you promote your topproducer then they're off your team

(01:15:02):
when they're running their own team?
and how do you make your goal as asupervisor when you just promoted one
of your five guys or girls and Nowyou have four people and and your best
salesperson is no longer on your team

Joe Jurec (01:15:14):
Just because they were the best salesperson does not mean those are all
translatable skills to the leadership roleright whole other facts so often I is what
turns into these, you know, bad managersituations or Unhealthy workplaces.
That's right.
Uh, and there, there's so much withthis and I, I hope it's introduced

(01:15:37):
it well enough for, for people to getcurious, to, to want to explore more.
We've done a lot of work inthe past with culture where
we have an online assessment.
We do much more hands on consultationof let us review your internal
systems, your LMS, your intranet, seehow your leadership is interacting.

(01:15:58):
with the field and what steps you'retaking so people don't feel anonymous.
So they feel involved and do one on oneinterviews with cross functional people
to try to unearth some of that becausepeople fear speaking truth to power.
And if leaders don't make itabsolutely clear that they want
open and honest criticism andthey should not, the employees

(01:16:21):
don't need to fear repercussions.
It's not going to happen very oftenunless you take intentional effort.
To do something like stay interviews, butthis has been something for, for us that
just complimented those, what we've helpedsome clients with so well that between the
online assessment, being able to partnerwith you and get this in front of like

(01:16:45):
these insights in front of people, we knowit's not going to just help the company,
but it's going to help their humans.
And that, that fits in line with, withour mission, right, to discover, engage,
and grow leaders and to, to do thingsthat help create more healthy workplaces.
We're near the end.
We could, I could talk about thisall day, but I want to be respectful

(01:17:06):
of your time because I know yougot some other stuff going on.
You're kind of a busy guy.
Uh, I want to ask you though, any adviceor recommendations for emerging leaders,
middle managers, folks that are a littleearlier in their career looking to,
step into a more major leadership role.

I think that the number one advice I would give to someone
who's trying to climb the ladder inany organization is to anticipate the
needs of your team, your supervisor,your, your, your mission in, in
the organization and prototype thebehavior of the role you want to be in.
So, if you are, um, Seeking that nextposition, think about what you'd be doing

(01:17:52):
in that next position and behave that way.
Um, managers come with agendasto meetings and, uh, managers
are reporting to stakeholders.
And so say you're in an entry levelposition, uh, come to the meeting
with your manager and say, I'm surecoming from this meeting, you'll
need to report to someone else on howI'm doing on this, this, and this.

(01:18:13):
So I prepared a report for you.
Of exactly what's goingon with my project.
And you can just forward this to your,to wherever it goes from your desk.
Um, that type of, uh, sort of,um, prototypical behavior, I think
is the number one way to risequickly in a corporate culture.
Yeah.
Because you're making people'slives easier and you're

(01:18:35):
playing chess, not checkers.
Meaning you're anticipatingthe move after your next move.
For sure.
And how it impacts the other side.
You're

Joe Jurec (01:18:43):
earning some trust and credibility along the way.
Exactly.
How about for executiveslooking to improve

culture?
I think it's critical to beunconvinced that what you're doing
is necessarily the best or onlyway to run your company culture.
And so I think, uh, improvement requireshumility, being humble, and not knowing

(01:19:11):
what you don't know, because there'sa lot of confirmation bias of what you
did as a leader, the decisions you made.
That you attribute to youroutcome of, of where you are, uh,
as a company and as a culture.
But, uh, you may have gotten theredespite some of the things that

(01:19:33):
you think are good and true to do.
Um, and so I think that, uh, reallythat ego death is really important
when approaching a cultural reboot.
I love that expression.
Yeah.
So that's, that's a longer conversation.
It is.
It is.
How I know about that work.
Um, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's, Ithink that's the number one advice

(01:19:56):
is to be, to be humble and to notassume that what you did is why you're
there, but, but you could be despitethose things while you're there.

Joe Jurec (01:20:04):
It gets harder and harder.
You get less accountability, youget less perspective, the more
senior you get in your career.
Right?
Right.
And if you just assume that you have.
A good pulse of the organization,you're probably wrong, right?
There's always something you don't know.
Uh, so I love that sentiment.
How can people find out more?
How can they find you?
How can they find out about HRSignal?

(01:20:25):
What do you want to leave the listenerswith, uh, as far as, you know, where
to go next if, if they want to improveretention, improve company culture
and leverage what you've built?

So, uh, hrsignal.
com, uh, is our website andlots of information there.
Uh, and if you're looking to,uh, grow a culture, a healthy
business and, and keep your peoplehappy, HRSignal is here to help.
Uh, and if you're looking to growyour revenue, um, or your brand,
Vividfront is also here to help.
No

Joe Jurec (01:20:58):
doubt.
Andrew.
Awesome.
Thank you.
I, I think this was, hopefullypeople found it valuable.
I enjoyed the hell out of myself.
I just love talking to you aboutthis, and, uh, I'm, I'm honored to
have you as a client, as a vendor,and, as, uh, as a friend, as somebody
I can sit here with and have thisconversation because I have a lot of

(01:21:19):
respect, uh, for, for what you're doing.
And I think that there, there'sgotta be a lot of beneficiaries
of, uh, the, the product and, uh,the things that you have created.
So

it's very motivating.
Thank you.
Yeah.

Joe Jurec (01:21:32):
Thank you, man.
Uh, for the, for the time, forthe, the sentiment, the wisdom
and for sharing with the audience.
So with that, we'll bringthis episode to a close.
Appreciate you much.
Uh, you will find Andrew, uh, wait,how do they get in touch with you
if they want to reach out to you?
Carrier

pigeon.
Carrier.
Okay, well fax machine.
Exactly.
Right.
Right.
Fax number four.
Good callback.
Uh, uh, Andrew, uh, at hrsignal.
com.

Joe Jurec (01:21:59):
Awesome.
You'll see that in the description.
Uh, there's going to be quite a few,uh, other resources, show notes,
links, and things like that thatyou can find pretty much anywhere
you're watching or listening to this.
But again, thank you, Andrew.
You're the man and best ofluck to you, your teams.
I feel like they're very fortunateto have you leading the way.

Thank you for your kind words.
Thanks for the opportunity to talk.
Thanks man.
Take care.

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