105: Everything You Need to Know About Working with a Realtor in BC with Century 21's Dean Desrosiers

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, welcome back to the RealEstate Podcast.

(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
And I'm your real estate agenthost, Matt Glenn.
What's happening, Taylor?How was your summer?
Summer's been awesome, man.
Yeah, it's been a ton of fun.
I saw you landed the 360 on thewake.
Yeah, it's been a long, hardmission of trying to get that.
So hard work pays off.
How's your summer?
How's things going?I haven't landed any 360s, but
it's been a pretty awesome summer.

(00:24):
Well, yeah, you just finished up a
hockey league in the summer andgot more going for us in the fall.
Yeah, got back into hockey.
Well, last year, but then the
summer took it real serious.
And now in the fall, it's on.
Yeah.
Our team's going to win.
We've kind of taken the last fewweeks off, but we've got a bunch
of shows lined up this fall, sowe'll start to get back into
things.
Yeah, yeah.
We've got more good shows coming.

(00:44):
Yeah, today's show was awesome.
It was nice to kind of get back onthe mic and start chatting real
estate.
Yeah.
Talking to Dean Derossier, who isthe part owner, associate broker
at our brokerage, best brokeragein the interior, Century 21
Assurance Realty.
Dean has a ton of insight, ton of
experience, kind of cut his teethin real estate during the 2008
fiasco and got started right whenit was times were the toughest.
Has worked through that, has beena successful agent since, has

(01:07):
moved to a managing broker andbrokerage owner.
It was awesome talking to him.
He's always a ton of fun to talk
to.
Yeah, I didn't realize how many...
people he's trained throughout hiscareer.
But yeah, that's kind of the bigtakeaway, I guess, of, you know,
newer agents are looking to picksomebody's brain or just chat
about how everything works.
Yeah.
He's got to reach out to.
Yeah.
So this episode, we really took afocus on like the agent's role,

(01:28):
what consumers should expect fromagents, how realtor
ca works.
Kind of just talked like a high
level of what agents do and whatto expect as a consumer and as an
agent, what your duties are toconsumers.
Super insightful episode.
It's funny because it's such a low
barrier of entry in terms of theindustry to get into.
funny because it's such a lowbarrier of entry in terms of the
industry to get into.

(01:50):
There's really high expectations
from the end consumer.
So it's good, right?
It kind of makes sure that peopleare doing what they need to do in
terms of real estate transactionside of things.
You got to have somebody on yourteam that can help in the
background and stuff like that.
Yeah, definitely.
And also, he goes into quite a bitof detail on the differences
between the jurisdictions.
Like, BC, we're kind of in a land
of our own.
Like, we're the only ones that
have a lot of these rules.

(02:10):
So, like, when people come from
Alberta or the U .S.
to buy property here, it's not the
same, right?There's obviously similarities,
but, like, there's also a ton ofdifferences.
So, it's good to go over.
Yeah, it's a bit of a longer show.
So, we'll just dive straight intoit.
And hopefully, yeah, you guysenjoy it.
We'll get some more shows goingthis fall.
get some more shows going thisfall.
Absolutely.
And this episode, like every other
episode, sponsored by Century 21Assurance Realty, best brokerage
in the interior of BC.

(02:31):
Head office, our main area is in
Kelowna, but we are in Vernon,Kamloops, Salmon Arm, Crescent,
Kootenays, Castlegar.
We're everywhere in the interior
and we're growing.
So we're the brokerage to be at.
If you're an agent looking for anew brokerage or if you're a buyer
or seller looking for an agent,Century 21 Assurance Realty is the
place to call.
Enjoy the show.
All right, Dean Derossier, welcomeback to the pod.
Fan favorite.
Is this your third or fourth?

(02:52):
It's the third, and I don't knowif you guys get any fan feedback,
but I probably don't want it.
We only send you the good stuff.
only send you the good stuff.
Okay, good.
Good, good.
Yeah, so you have obviously
extensive history in the industry.
You were started as an agent in
kind of the 2008 -2009 showdown,which is a lot of similarities to

(03:13):
now.
You were an agent for... A long
time.
Then you've since became an
associate broker partner in ourbrokerage, the best brokerage in
town.
If you've been listening to this
pod, the best brokerage in theinterior.
best brokerage in the interior.
We're allowed to be biased on that
one.
But, you know, I should say,
though, however.
The interior has a lot of really

(03:34):
good brokers.
We're pretty lucky here.
And I'm not saying there aren'tgood brokers in other areas.
But, you know, if I sat down atlunch with like five of the top
brokerages in town, it would justbe a great conversation.
And there's a lot of skill levelhere.
So I'm always often humbled bythat.
So I do want to start out withthat sort of caveat.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very true.
I'd agree with that, too.
Ours is the best.
But yeah.
Cool.
So today you want to talk about,which I think is a great topic by

(03:55):
real estate in BC.
guidelines, why realtors are
asking what questions, what tokeep in mind for agents and
consumers, those lines?Yeah, like working with a realtor
in BC.
with a realtor in BC.
It's changed a lot since 2018.
And we used to have a brochure
prior to your coming in, Matt.
It was called Working with a
Realtor.
And it was a real quick summary on
what to expect.
And back then, I think it was one

(04:18):
page.
Today, if you did Working with a
Realtor, it'd probably be like...
20 pages.
There's a lot more.
That creates a lot of confusion.
At the same time, confusion is notgood for clarity and for your
overall public image andperception.
The more we talk about the changesin a positive way, hopefully
consumers can learn and you'llhave a better experience with the
realtor.
I'd agree with that.
that.
That's a good idea.
It does seem like we have a lot ofrules, a lot of guidelines, a lot

(04:40):
of things to keep in mind.
Yeah.
Well, if you want to ask me therules, want to ask me the rules, I
think there's like 25, 30 pages.
Matt, you're a realtor, so you're
now sort of part of the, you know,you've been tarnished a little,
right?Because you've been doing real
estate quite a while now, right?Yeah.
You're pretty lucky because youstill get to pretend to be a
consumer a little bit, althoughyou are licensed at the same
regulator as us now.
I'm married to a real estate

(05:02):
agent, to a real estate agent, soI hear a lot of that.
lot of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's an interesting one.
I'm married to one now, too, andthat's decent as well.
Yeah.
You never realize how hard it was
to be married to a realtor,realtor, Dean?
I've always known I'm a verydifficult person to learn with.
Can I get that?I'm okay.
Now you've just figured out why.
Now I realize that working in real
estate wasn't helping me, right?So I wasn't doing any favors.
But I'm very lucky.
I have a very patient wife.
And you know, when we look at realestate as a profession...

(05:27):
As an independent contractor, whenI started back in 2008, they had
this thing called real estatelife, or it was a focus on the
quality of life that real estateagents had, because it's a very
different way of living.
And I think that we sometimes
forget that, you know, yes, itlooks very exciting on social
media and on TV and all theseshows that have come out.
But the reality is a lot ofsleepless nights.
It's a lot of late evenings, notseeing your family, being away

(05:49):
from your kids, controlling yourlife as a realtor.
You really have to work hard atthat.
And some agents never get there.
You know, it's a balancing life.
versus work thing, because I don'tknow about you, Matt, but I just
like, man, if you called me uptoday and said, let's go look at a
house, I want you to write anoffer.
I would leave you guys right now.
That would be so exciting to me
because I like that part of it,like that part of it, right?

(06:09):
Yeah, definitely.
It is like that.
So yeah, just kind of drop it andgo.
And you got to strike where theiron's hot.
Like if you have a listing andsomebody gives you an offer, you
can't.
tell the buyer like, listen, can
you just wait till tomorrow?Cause like, I really want to enjoy
this dinner.
Like the seller has their biggest
possession they probably will everhave until their next house.
And like, they need you to be onit.
So they, it's a big commitment,right?
So, and you have to be rested andyou have to be, that part of it,

(06:31):
right?Yeah, you have to be rested and
you have to be, you know, ready togo.
Your mindset has to be in theright place.
And there's a broker that owns abrokerage and I've been involved
in leadership for a while.
when we see problems in real
estate sometimes it comes down tothe realtors are fatigued they're
tired you know they're kind ofcranky and you know sometimes it
can take one thing and then peopleare you know maybe going at each
other when they shouldn't and soyeah managing your lifestyle is an
important thing.
So hopefully by the end of this

(06:51):
podcast, I think, you know,consumers, realtors are listening
are going to say, oh, OK, I didn'tknow that.
Or that's a great way of lookingat things.
And, you know, I wanted to startout with talking about, you know,
how everything's licensed and allthat, like start at the high level
and then work down a bit.
All right.
First question.
How is real estate organized in B
.C.
and why is it important to
consumers?I jokingly say that realtors are
agents of capitalism, right?Like we are agents of capitalism.

(07:12):
You know, Canada is kind of asocial democratic kind of, you
know, constitutional monarchy kindof country.
But with British common law,property ownership is a huge
component of that, right?And it's capital.
And so the ability to own land issuper important.
And if you think of Canada and theU .S.
and a lot of countries wherepeople have come to from different
countries, everybody wants to ownreal estate.
It's also controlled, right?So the controls we have are the
British Columbia FinancialServices Authority, which is the
regulator in BC.
But we also have sort of the
association, which is the BritishColumbia Real Estate Association.

(07:34):
And then we have CREA, which isthe Canadian Real Estate
Association.
So there's a big difference
between BCFSA and BCREA.
You know, it's not that important
that consumer knows it.
But for example, in Canada, you
need to have a license to sellreal estate.
In British Columbia, we call ittrading services.
And so that's important becauseRESA, which is the Real Estate
Services Act, is kind of whatgoverns licensees.
And it tries to govern everythingwe do with very broad terminology,

(07:57):
right?So you couldn't write a real
estate act that says this is whatyou need to do in social media,
right?It'll say something about
advertising and misleading thepublic and things like that.
But it's a very good set of rules.
It's based on British common law
generally.
And it governs the way the
licensees have to conductthemselves.
And that was changed in 2018.

(08:17):
If you're from Alberta or you're
from any other part of Canada orthe world for that matter, but
primarily North America, wherereal estate is very similar in
terms of its structure, a licenseewould hold their license at a
brokerage.
And so if you go down to
California and you meet alicensee, you see their
advertising on their MLS and youcall them up, they need to meet a

(08:38):
brokerage.
So that's the one common
denominator.
But after that, British Columbia
is 100 % unique compared to everyother jurisdiction in the country.
Aren't we the only one whereyou're not allowed to double end
in North America?Right.
So double end is kind of thatmisconception word.
You can double end anything, butyou can't represent.
two parties in the sametransaction.
So that's called dual agency or inwhat many people call limited dual
agency.
So back in the day, in the early

(08:59):
2000s, it was very common forbuyers to want their own
representative.
So it kind of made sense, right?
But at the time, realtors kind ofall worked for sellers because we
put their listing on the MLSsystem.
It was called MLS .ca.
And so the legal workings of that
were quite different.
And today, the legal workings are
if you work with a buyer, thatbuyer has an agency relationship
with you.
And if you're working with a

(09:20):
seller, that seller has an agencyrelationship with you.
And only in very, very specialcircumstances in very remote areas
of the province could the agentpotentially represent both
parties.
And so, yeah, dual agency in BC
was banned in 2018.
And this is very different.
So, for example, if you sell yourhouse in Alberta or you sell your
house anywhere else, you know,it's really common.
The realtor calls you up and says,hey, I have an offer.

(09:42):
You know, we had an open house onthe weekend.
Client came in.
We wrote an offer.
That agent can bring you an offer.
And they'll probably have you sign
a limited dual agency form.
And it's highly likely that your
listing agent wrote the offer forthe buyer.
And you do the transaction andeverything seems great.
British Columbia, that's justreally not possible anymore.
It could happen, right?There is a provision in the rules
for that to happen.
But since 2018, it's super rare to

(10:03):
see that.
So what would happen is now
there's a mechanism by which thatlisting agent needs to sort of
either refer or direct the buyerto their own representative.
And that's quite different.
When I sold my house in Ontario
back in 2003, when I left, becauseI wasn't a real estate agent then,
and I didn't realize that it wouldbe a conflict of interest for the
realtor to not only represent thebuyer and also the seller in the

(10:23):
same transaction.
But I can tell you like when the
transaction was over, I didn'tfeel great about it, but I didn't
really know why I didn't feelgreat about it actually until I
became a real estate agent in2008.
And then looking back on it, I waskind of like, oh man.
You know, I was happy.
I sold my house.
Everything was great.
But I was kind of left with a

(10:43):
feeling like I could have got moremoney.
I could have got better terms.
You know, there are little things
about the transaction that kind ofbugged me.
So I think the changes from 2018,you know, sort of banning dual
agency, I think have been verygood for consumers.
And I think it's a good change.
Being the only jurisdiction in
North America that does it,however, does put a burden on real

(11:04):
estate agents, licensees, I shouldsay.
to kind of explain what'sdifferent here.
So that's kind of a long windedexplanation.
But that's through BCFSA, theregulator for the province.
And the other flip side of that isBCREA and CREA, there are
associations.
So Matt and I are members of that
association.
And we have a set of rules we have
to follow there, which aredifferent from the regulator's
rules.
You know, they're sort of
coherent, you know, they fittogether, but they're different.
And it allows Matt.
and I to put a property on realtor

(11:25):
.ca.
It allows us to have a lockbox, a
key.
It allows us to have access to
software and technologies.
It allows us to represent our
seller and our buyer with sort ofthe latest tools in a sense,
right?And then after that, we're at a
brokerage, which is another level.
For us, we're at Century 21.
So we're at a brand.
But that brokerage level is kind
of that supervisory role that thebroker has, the managing broker
over Matt and I. Like I'm not themanaging broker.

(11:47):
I own part of the brokerage, but Idon't manage it.
I do report to our managing brokerand I get voted down a lot.
So when she watches this, we'reboth getting whipped.
Yeah, I think we're in troublealready.
So there's lots of layers in realestate, which is interesting.
It doesn't really matter that muchto consumers.
But what does matter is that theyknow who they're working with.
And I think that's the great partabout British Columbia in the

(12:09):
last, you know, since 2018.
And it takes a collective effort
to do that because not only are weexplaining to them something
that's completely new.
it's completely different than
probably where they came from.
You know, like 30, 40 % of the
buyers could be from out ofprovince.
And now we're, you know, we'rereally fighting against their
previous history that they wouldhave had in a transaction.
So it's been really interesting.

(12:29):
I'm really proud of the
profession.
I think we've done great.
I still think there's lots of roomto move on this to do better.
But I think real estate in BC,from that perspective, is very
good.
buyer has their agent, a seller
has their agent.
I think that's a great start to a
real estate transaction.
I guess kind of wearing like the
consumer hat in this three -wayconversation here is like, guess
kind of wearing like the consumerhat in this three -way

(12:51):
conversation here is like, you doget people with a bit of a
misconception of saying, well, ifI'm not represented, maybe I can
negotiate better because they'renot going to have to pay
commission to the buying agent,right?
Like it doesn't cost you anythingas the buyer to use an agent, but
I guess, yeah, where do you guyscome into play there and say,
well, like here are the benefits,like the small chance that you may
get a discount is.

(13:11):
it mostly well you guys don't know
the comparables in the area you'renot going to have like you know
insurance if something goessideways like what are kind of the
main takeaways there the entireconversation with a realtor
actually starts with a disclosureform and it's called the
disclosure of representation andtrading services form we call it
the dorts a lot of people you'llsee oh you have to sign the dorts
that form is kind of this consumerforward form so every time a
realtor has an interaction with aconsumer entire conversation with

(13:33):
a realtor actually starts with adisclosure form and it's called
the disclosure of representationand trading services form we call
it the dorts a lot of peopleyou'll see oh you have to sign the
dorts that form is kind of thisconsumer forward form so every
time a realtor has an interactionwith a consumer Right.
This form is to be shown to themwhen the consumer wants to talk
more deeply about real estate.
So this is probably the most
confusing part of the new rules.
It's like, when do I pull out the
disclosure?Because you start pulling out
disclosures and you're having aconversation, someone about real

(13:54):
estate, the consumer is going tolook at you or, you know, you're
in an open house.
They start to back up quite a bit.
Right.
It's like, hey, wait a minute.
I just want to see what color thecarpet is downstairs.
Like buy me some drinks first.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want drinks and cookies like
you've got bread in the oven, youknow, and the kids want to go jump
in the pool in the back.
And, you know.
An open house can be a prettycrazy thing.

(14:16):
And when somebody walks in theopen house, what's the first thing
they do?Hi, how you doing?
My name's so -and -so.
Oh, where are you from?
Oh, I'm from so -and -so.
What brings you here today?
Oh, my wife and I need to buy ahouse because we're homeless if we
don't get something in the nexttwo months.
And suddenly, now you're intopersonal information.
So an open house is a fun place tomeet people.
But it's also, with the rules inBritish Columbia, the licensee has
to handle it in a certain way.
Because if I'm at the open house
and I'm the listing agent, one ofthe rules of agency is full
disclosure to my client.
And so if somebody comes into my
open house and says that, youknow, I'm going to be homeless if
I don't buy a house in two monthsand I can afford your house, why

(14:38):
now do you need to share that withmy seller?
Because that's 100 % disclosure.
And interestingly, that buyer may
not know that I'm going to bedisclosing that to the seller.
So there's always this kind ofawkward point where I would have
to say, hey, wait a minute, beforeyou tell me too much, just so you
know, this is my role today at theopen house.
I work for the seller.
Or in many situations, Maybe the
open house is being done bysomeone else at your brokerage and
they don't represent the seller.
And in that situation, it's
probably a lot less consumerprotection oriented, right?
We're trying to create informedconsent.
So there's this funny little pointwhere how much personal

(15:00):
information is too much, you know,and I think that's always for me
been a challenging one.
So I generally say to people, have
this disclosure form right awayand have it there.
For example, in British Columbia,if you're my client, I give you
100 % loyalty.
I give you 100 % full disclosure
about any facts or any informationabout the property throughout our
relationship.
I have a duty to avoid any
conflicts of interest, right?And a conflict of interest could
be limited dual agency, right?What if my best friend wants to

(15:23):
buy your house after I list it?That's probably a conflict of
interest, right?And what does that look like?
Or what I tell people, hey, youmight not think my best friend's a
big deal, but what if my momwanted to buy your house, right?
There's a conflict of interest forsure.
And how do we handle those?And the last one for the agency
relationship, which called theclient relationship is 100 %
confidentiality, right?So if you look at each one of
those points, those are thingsthat are now sacred as a client

(15:43):
relationship.
And what I found in 2008, when I
started.
Those things weren't generally
sacred in the industry.
We would always hear somebody talk
about somebody buying and sellingreal estate personally that they
knew.
And we heard their personal story
when maybe we shouldn't have,right?
Do consumers know what loyaltymeans?
Like, what does it mean to beloyal in a real estate
transaction?You know, what does full
disclosure mean?So all these things have a lot of
nuances to them.
So the opposite of that.

(16:03):
which consumers need to know isthat if they're standing in the
open house and they startdivulging a lot of their personal
information, their financing,their stress and all the things
they have to kind of accomplish,they're probably putting
themselves in a weakened positionif they do write an offer.
And so, you know, it's kind of thereal estate licensee, the
realtor's job to inform theconsumer so the consumer can share

(16:25):
things based on informed consent.
Right.
So there's a balance there.
So. All right.
And how does Realtor ca work?
Oh, Realtor ca is very interesting.
Canada started with MLS .ca.
So when I started, it was MLS .ca.
We could put seven photos on thesystem, but there was a lot of
data.
So we were putting sales data in
there.
You could search sales for back to
like the 90s at the time in 2008when I started.
So Realtor ca came about from MLS .ca.

(16:45):
It was a branding change.
And I think primarily they did it
because CREA, the Canadian RealEstate Association, which we
mentioned earlier, as ourassociation, they own the name
Realtor.
And I love that because if you
ever watch Santa Clara Rita Dietwith who's the actress that does
that one, she talks a real tour.
It's real tour.
We have to say it the right way.
Yeah.
Meganrealtor ca, I think, was good for Canada

(17:07):
because in Canada, we have oneRealtor .ca.
In the U S., there is over, I mean, I'm
sure they've consolidated, but thelast time I saw a presentation on
the U .S.
MLS system, there was over 500 MLS
systems in the U .S.
A city will have like a bunch of
different MLS systems, a bunch ofdifferent MLS systems, which is
kind of hard to think about beingfrom here.
Yeah, if you want to buy a housein Seattle, you know, you go to
MLS com, you're not really sure you're

(17:28):
seeing everything.
But if you go to realtor
ca, and you start searching inVancouver, you're going to see
every single listing there.
That's a powerful thing that the
realtor ca does.
So number one, realtor ca is probably in the world, the
number one focus for consumers whowant to purchase real estate in
Canada.
So like we know consumer wise, you

(17:48):
know, 85 % or more of theconsumers start their search on
realtor ca in Canada.
And it's completely oppositeexperience in the US.
Now, do you guys have like aprofessional login for that?
So it opens up more information?Yeah, we get to see the back end.
We call it the back end, right?And there's interfaces and
programs.
And so, yeah, you know, we have
access to the sold data,statistical data on every aspect

(18:09):
of a real estate transactionthat's in the system.
The search capabilities are quitea bit more extensive than what you
can do as a consumer on realtor.ca.
And it's not done that way becausewe don't want consumers to search.
I think this is the challenge wehave.
It's just that in Canada, we havea lot of real estate boards that
send the data up to realtor .ca.

(18:31):
And over the years, every board
has a slightly different datafeed, right?
So, you know, in Mississauga, Imight search for a two bedroom
plus den house.
Well, in our board, we don't mark
off dens, so you can't search aden.
The Realtor ca system is a very good search.
It's very good geographic as well.
And the app is absolutely
wonderful.
And so recently, Realtor
ca became a private entity ownedby Korea.
So it's owned by Realtor.
So we own it.

(18:52):
And that'll give us a little bitmore flexibility to put more money
into Realtor ca to sort of expand.
the consumer search capabilitiesof that system.
In the U S., they don't have that
restriction in their companies,but we do in Canada being a...
Not -for -profit CREA and ourassociations are not -for
-profits.
We can't really bring on a ton of
advertising and we can't sellservices as part of Realtor .ca.

(19:13):
So now we can.
So I'm excited to see what's going
to happen in the next few years.
We're very fortunate to have
Realtor ca in Canada.
You mentioned, mentioned, youknow, it started out, MLS
ca or whatever it was, started outwith like seven photos.
Now, what are you guys up to like60 you can go to or something?
No, I think it's 100.
It's 100 now.
Yeah, I blame Century 21 Assurancein Kelowna because I think it was

(19:37):
2009 or something.
And I want to pay homage to him
because he's just a great guygoing through a tough time now.
But Terry Peters was aphotographer at our brokerage at
the time.
And I was looking online.
I was at a different brokerage.
And the next thing you know, I see
21 high definition photos and allthe listings at Century 21.
And I went, oh, man, that looksway better.
Back when that was not a normalthing.
Now it's crazy if you don't.

(19:59):
I mean, no one did it back then.
And their listings look so good.
I mean, I had to buy a DSLR
camera.
You know, I'm pretty good with
electronics, but my photos neverwere half as good as Terry's.
I mean, since it's evolving, doyou think you'll get to the point
of like, you just meet yourclients and say, here's like a set
of virtual 3D goggles.
And then they just sit at home and

(20:20):
like walk through homes.
I would say no. I don't think
that's...
Yeah.
I mean, one of the myths I hearall the time, and my wife and I
even said this when we bought ourhouse in Ontario, because we had a
real estate agent in Ontario helpus look for a house.
And even here in Kelowna, my wifeone day, we're talking to friends
and she says, well, you know what?I don't know what our realtor

(20:40):
really does because you know what?We found our house.
We found our own house.
We found it ourselves.
Where did she find it?Well, she found it on realtor .ca.
And at the time the realtor hadshown us, you know, about six or
seven houses.
We've been out with them twice.
But the advice he was giving usabout the knowledge in the area
was the reason why we found thathouse.
Yeah, we knew the area andeverything else.
But by the time we looked at eighthouses, we knew what we didn't

(21:01):
want.
We knew what we kind of wanted.
As a consumer, you look at thesehouses and they all look amazing.
But until you actually step footinside of them, you really don't
get a sense of what they are.
I really don't get a sense of what
they are.
And so after even looking at eight
houses, you know, we were allready to pick our own house.
I always remember that commentbecause, you know, you hear that a
lot.
Oh, I don't need a realtor.
I found my own house.
Well.
You know, it was the advice piecefor us in those early days because

(21:24):
we were new to Ontario and we werenew to Kelowna.
You think that had something to dowith like the old mentality when
the MLS was literally just like abook?
had something to do with like theold mentality when the MLS was
literally just like a book?Yeah.
That would make more sense for arealtor to find your house.
But now, like, when I'm lookingfor houses, I also use Realtor
.ca.
Like, I use obviously our MLS
system too, but like, man, Realtorca is a better program.

(21:45):
Like, that thing's just awesome.
To your point, Matt, if we look at
the 3D walkthroughs, which reallystarted around 2018 prior to
COVID, right?I remember when we decided to have
all of our listings at thebrokerage, we're going to have a
Matterport 3D.
That was pretty significant as
well, because there's a lot ofprogramming that goes into that.
It extends the photo shoot from anhour to about two and a half
hours.
There's a lot of uploading and
programming time.
But now you can walk through the
house virtually in a sense.
And what's interesting about that
is as a marketing guy, I looked atthat as showing avoidance.

(22:07):
So what that does is that createsshowing avoidance for your listing
because consumers walk through itand they think they know the
house.
But when you actually walk through
the house, it feels different whenyou're in person versus the
virtual.
So in my gut, I know that the
virtual tours are super cool andthey're really helpful, but they
may harm some consumers, in myopinion, because some houses just
feel really cool, like theconstruction and the build quality
and the surfaces and the colors,because you never really get the
exact views and stuff like that.
It's hard to see.
photos, right?What does it feel like when you're

(22:28):
sitting at the kitchen tablelooking at the window?
You'll see that in the Matterportin the 3D.
I should just say 3D, but youdon't get the feeling for it.
It's amazing because throughCOVID, that was one of those
things where the board, we had tomake the decision.
If the listing can't be shown, itcan't be on realtor .ca.
That's one of our rules.
So when you list on realtor
ca, you have to agree that yourproperty can be viewed for sale
unless it's new construction,unless it's a lot, for example, or
there's a real extenuatingcircumstance.
So in COVID, all the listings thathad 3D Matterports were considered
available to show.

(22:48):
And it allowed us to keep them up.
And we were encouraging agents whohadn't done that to do it so that
we could maintain the system, theintegrity of Realtor .ca.
So it was kind of a funny nuance.
You said something funny there
too, that like the walkthrough,people don't want to see the
house.
So I know of agents that they put
on limited photos, like one or...

(23:09):
10 photos just so the consumer
can't see.
So they have to book a showing so
it turns into like a leadgeneration situation for them.
So having worse photos is actuallybetter for the agent.
which is super weird.
Yeah.
And I think the jury's out whetherthat's bad for the consumer or
not.
You know, like if somebody calls
you and looks at the property andwith all its warts and things,
maybe less photos for someproperties is the right strategy.

(23:30):
Right.
So, you know, when I first
started, I already got mad.
I see one photo and I was like,
oh, come on, where are all thephotos?
You call him to bitch about it.
And he's like, you called me,
didn't you?Yeah, you called me and you booked
a showing, you know, and the firstthing you do is when you get there
is you start talking about thepossibilities.

(23:50):
You know, first thing you do iswhen you get there is you start
talking about the possibilities.
Right.
Whereas if you look at it online,the first thing you know is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's an interesting one.
So lots of photos is really good.
And one photo could be really
good.
It's interesting how real estate
can be a yin and yang that way.
So it's super counterintuitive,
but it does make sense when youthink about it.
does make sense when you thinkabout it.
So kind of funny.

(24:11):
Yeah.
So Dean, what's the differencebetween a realtor, a licensee, a
salesperson, all those differenttitles that we hear?
Yeah, that's a great question.
As a licensee, your license is
held at the regulator BCFSA.
So you've passed a test and you've
taken a course and you're licensedat a brokerage.
So as consumers are going tointeract with real estate, they're
going to maybe go to an openhouse.

(24:32):
They're going to call on a listingon realtor .ca.
There's a 95%, 99 % chance they'regoing to communicate with a
licensee.
The licensee should be identifying
who their principal client is.
So, hey, thanks for calling.
Just so you know, I work for theseller.
What questions you have about mylisting today, right?
And that kind of roll it out.
However, if you go into a show
home, for example, a newconstruction, or you go to a
development.
Some of those agents, and in fact,
most of them are not licensees.
They're representatives of the

(24:53):
developer.
So in British Columbia, we have
two sets of rules.
We have one rule for Real Estate
Services Act and the other rule iscalled REDMA, which is the Real
Estate Development Marketing Act.
And so that allows builders and
developers to have their showhome.
It allows them to escort peoplethrough their different
properties.
It allows them to purchase a
property pre -sale.
But there is a caveat because
sometimes developers and builderswould hire a licensee to conduct
that business for them.
So sometimes you might run into a

(25:14):
licensee in that situation.
And so then the rules of dual
agency and disclosure all apply.
The Redma has a set of rules and
disclosure.
But the biggest thing most people
know is that if you buy a presaleor you buy from a developer, you
generally have an automatic seven-day right of rescission.
If that's in the contract, youkind of know you're probably
dealing with, you know, some thatmight not be licensed.
They probably are an employee ofthe developer.
And that's super common.
And many employees of developers
and builders were ex -real estateagents in the past, for example.
They have a lot of experience.
So that's kind of the two roles

(25:35):
now.
So as a consumer, when are you
interacting with someone?If it's a licensee, they're most
likely going to tell you rightaway their particular role.
You know, I'm licensed at this.
brokerage, this is who I
represent.
The other thing that happens,
which is quite interesting, iswe're going to ask you if you're
working with a realtor or not.
And we'll do it on email, we'll do
it on the telephone, we'll do iton text.

(25:56):
And that will happen all the time.
And as a consumer, you might get
annoyed by that.
What would be the benefit of
working with a realtor on apresale?
a presale?And that's probably one of the
other myths, right?Like the developer will say, well,
you don't need a realtor, we canhelp you with it.
Well, the challenge with that isthe presale contract is written by
the developer, often their lawyer.
It 100 % benefits the developer

(26:17):
and the lawyer.
And there's a lot of paperwork in
there that's necessary in orderfor Taylor to actually finance it,
because the contract's quitecomplex, right?
Because it hasn't been built yet,or there's going to be moving
closing dates, and there's goingto be contingencies and holdbacks
and lots of things.
So it's quite a complex contract.
A realtor, a licensee... can add alot of value in that process
because we can think clearly whileyou get excited about the house,

(26:38):
right?You know, you kind of get rose
colored glasses and we can helpyou sort of look at the layout.
We can help you choose not so muchthe colors, but we can help you
look at the contract to make surethat it's going to meet your needs
because it's one sided contract.
A lot of times you see clauses in

(26:59):
there that the developer and thebuilder may not care too much
about it, but it might put.
your client in a bit of a bind
financing wise and things likethat.
So there's a lot of ways that alicensee can help in that
situation.
Some builders are really good.
You know, they want the licenseethere.
Some of them are a little bit moreprickly about it.
But I would say I personallywouldn't buy a new development in
a city other than Kelowna unless Ihired a local real estate agent

(27:22):
personally.
And I'm a real estate agent.
So I know the value of seeing itfrom having done it myself.
It's a little bit more nuanced,though.
So we don't write the contract.
But we help you review.
Also, we can do things like CMA,introduce you to people like
inspectors.
and appraisers and lawyers.
Oh yeah.
The biggest one is the
walkthrough.
Like, you know, what do you do in
a walkthrough?Who's qualified to do a
walkthrough?Like, I don't know about you, but

(27:42):
I built a couple of houses, butI'm still overwhelmed in a
walkthrough because I'm looking atlots of stuff.
And, you know, as a consumer, youdo have the right to have a
representative there with you anda real staging can help you.
And if it's quite complex, youknow, the realtor might recommend
that you hire a, like a homeinspector as well.
Somebody to go with you becausenew construction out very
expensive.
Builders are amazing.
The quality homes are really good,but.
I mean, it's always good to have asecond set of eyes, look at
everything.
Yeah, 100%.

(28:03):
As a consumer, Dean, should wejust call the listing agent or
should we call our realtor first?Or what do you think on that?
As a broker, I have two answers.
One, as a real estate agent, I'd
be like, yeah, call me.
I'll answer any question you have,
right?So if you call the listing agent,
the listing agent is allowed togive you factual information about
the property.
If you call the listing agent and

(28:26):
say, hey, What's going on with theseller?
I noticed you dropped the price.
Are they desperate to sell?
Well, then the listing agent isprohibited from telling you that.
So if your intention of callingthe listing agent is you're
looking for some secret weaponthat you can use to benefit
yourself, you know, it's probablynot a great call.
But if you intend to go into atransaction mode where you're
thinking of screening thisproperty and comparing it to
others.
I would hope that by that time
you'd hired a buyer's agent tohelp you professionally, you know,
tackle this in a professional way.

(28:47):
But you can certainly call the
listing agent anytime you like.
The listing agent would encourage
you.
But the listing agent also would
have to be quite honest with youthat if you wanted to write the
offer, that that agent wouldn't beable to help you do it.
And I think that in and of itselfsort of says to me, well, you
know, it'd be great then.
Why don't you have your own
representative?But we hear a lot that the
consumer says, oh, I don't want tobother my agent.

(29:09):
You know, I thought I would call alisting agent and really a buyer's
agent that's bothered becausetheir client calls.
I don't know any of them that arelike that.
They want you to call them.
you to call them.
As a listing agent, I have quite afew listings going.
I get those calls all the time.
I also get calls from other
listing agents where my clientshave called them and said they
don't want to bother me.
And I love getting those calls.
And I don't know any agents thatwouldn't want to get a call.

(29:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, part ofthis is consumer service, right?
So we look at what's customerservice.
I think the primary duty of alisting agent is to sell the
listing.
So if a consumer calls me and they
understand that I work for theseller, then I'm going to give
them customer service and, youknow, try to sell the listing, do
the best I can.
I also know that if the person on
the phone starts divulging a lotof personal information, I'd kind

(29:49):
of have to be a little bitcareful.
I actually hope that they have anagent that they're working with
because in that way, you know, Ican extend the conversation
further and I can do more followup.
Right.
And I think that's probably what
consumers don't understand.
Like a lot of times we want the
buyer to be working with anotheragent so we can be maybe a bit
more aggressive with our salespitch and, you know, and push them
a little bit more because to seehow serious they are, because

(30:09):
really as a listing agent, I mean,we don't get paid until the house
sells.
Right.
So, you know, we're not sittingback just waiting for the phone to
ring.
I mean, if somebody calls us,
we're going to grill them.
But it's great when they have an
agent because then we can grillthem even more afterwards.
Can we maybe take a step back andfigure out like if I'm new?
a step back and figure out like ifI'm new?
to Kelowna and I want to buy ahome or if I've lived in my home

(30:32):
for 30 years and my last agent'swell -retired, where do you guys
start to find an agent?Do you feel most consumers just
Google it, ask a friend, likewhere do we start to find an
agent?So Taylor, what I do is I listen
to my favorite podcast in Kelownaand I call that guy.
Yeah, exactly.
So there's a lot of research on
this through Korea and Realtor.ca.
67%, generally speaking, which weall know is two thirds, right?
It's kind of a standard deviationnumber, generally ask for a
referral from someone.
So, you know, most consumers ask a

(30:52):
trusted friend who they mightknow.
And that's how a lot of theintroductions come from.
And it really surprises peoplethat, you know, if you see a
billboard and you see a lot ofadvertising and see social media,
that's generally not where peoplego.
There's a large number of peoplewho, pick the local expert.
So they look in the area and ifthey see an agent with a lot of
signs, I think that's about 10, 12% do that.
There is a portion that meetpeople kind of randomly like open
houses and things like that.
So it's kind of an interesting
balance of it, but that largeportion of people generally go

(31:14):
based on referral.
I've audited my own business quite
a bit.
And I think it follows almost
exactly these lines is that twothirds are people that I just know
and like you have a goodrelationship with.
This is why it's so important foran agent to be social, have like a
social life and lots of friends.
But also when your social life,
you're not just the guy that'shaving 17 beers and like you have
to be a little bit professional,even in your personal life, you
know, so that people want to trustyou to buy the house.

(31:35):
So I find that's a thing.
But then also listings, like your
listings, you get the call.
So if you're the local expert, if
they just see your signseverywhere, you get calls like
that.
I would agree with that by your
math.
That's like 80 % of.
Yeah, there's probably five toeight percent that are sort of
like a marketing driven kind ofthings, like if you're advertising
or they're going to click on an adand they get there eventually.
And often, you know, what'sinteresting about our profession
is, you know, when we look atinquiries from realtor

(31:57):
ca, a very low proportion of themget answered.
So, you know, as a profession, asa broker.
That's true.
Statistically, there's a lot of
data that shows inquiries fromrealtor
ca are not answered very promptlysometimes.
And so it's shocking to me becauseeveryone that I know who are often
full -time realtors working reallyhard, I don't see that.
But statistically, nationally,they see a lot of these inquiries
not being responded to.
And I think that's a missed
opportunity for the profession.
But I also think that everybody
comes into the profession at theirown level, right?
There's a lot of agents that maybearen't full -time.

(32:19):
There's a lot that are full -time.
Your phone could be ringing all
the time.
You wake up that night.
next morning and you see a coupleof emails and, you know, by two or
three o 'clock in the afternoon,maybe you didn't answer those.
That couldn't just happen.
That's part of life.
There's no way I can tell you inthe 13 years that I was a
salesperson that I got back toeverybody in 30 minutes.

(32:41):
That's just impossible.
Yeah.
If you're with your client, know,you're like, sorry, I got to.
Talk to this other client.
That's not the greatest look.
In BC, so going on the sales sideof things, if you're selling your
home, is there just a standardcommission everywhere?
I know geographically it changes alittle bit with the big
brokerages, right?But then you have some of these
low commission split brokerages.
I guess what's the difference

(33:01):
there?This is one of those conversations
that if you have 100 realtors in aroom and you want to talk about
commission, 99 of them will runout of the room because we're not
allowed to talk about commission.
But commission is a super
important topic for consumers.
And I think that, you know, how we
learn to talk about money as areal estate agent is generally how
we develop as a person.
When I started in real estate, I
wasn't very good at talking aboutpeople's finances, but I got

(33:23):
really good quickly because wewere negotiating for millions of
dollars.
I think that's a very important
point because like when I startedas an agent, you're like, ah, you
know, like I probably shouldn'tknow this, but now it's like, I
need to know.
Like, you don't need to tell me
all the details, but like if youhave a $900 ,000 mortgage and you
want to sell your house for $900,000, but it's only worth $800
,000, like I need to know that.
So I feel like in my own business,
I have become a little bit moreproddy with that.

(33:45):
You have to remember that you'rethe professional, right?
So you have to know what you'redoing here.
Not everyone comes like that, buta lot of them do.
Obviously, I lean a lot on alawyer's broker like Taylor to
kind of tell me what's up.
But I have to know the broad
strokes myself for sure.
And if we go back to where we
started, if you look at thedisclosure of representation in
trading services form.
If you're my client, I owe you 100

(34:05):
% confidentiality, right?So as a real estate professional
today, we're a lot like a lawyer.
We're a lot like a doctor.
And I think that if we emphasizethat with clients, they should
know that their privateinformation is protected.
And even if they fire me or theystop using you and they work with
someone else, the confidentialitystays forever.
So I had a lot of experiencesearly on where I saw other agents

(34:25):
divulging people's personalinformation.
And it would maybe feel reallyuncomfortable because I came from
the medical profession, which...
confidentiality is super
important.
And I think that, yeah, when we
talk about these things, consumersneed to know that they have a lot
of protections when they hire anagent that represents them as a
client.
And I think confidentiality is a
huge, huge, not only comfort, butit's a professionalism statement
that they can divulge personalthings to us.
We can serve them better when weknow everything.
They should have the confidencethat it's just, it dies with us,

(34:46):
right?It's not our story to tell.
It's theirs in a sense, right?Absolutely.
I agree with that 100%.
So yeah, commissions aren't set
anywhere.
However, there's no... thing is a
standard commission.
Commissions are always negotiable
too.
For example, if you agree to sign
an MLS contract and pay a certainamount, when the offer comes in,
the commissions are stillnegotiable.
Right.
Like they're always negotiable.
We need to have a presetagreement, of course, because
that's kind of a promise.
When I look at the MLS contract,

(35:07):
which is the realtor ca contract, to me, it's kind of
promised to market because no onegets paid unless you accept an
offer.
So there's kind of a disconnect
there.
And if you're not happy with the
commission you're paying, you'renot going to accept the offer.
So the seller does have a lot ofcontrol.
You know, it's important for realestate professionals to let
consumers know that thecommissions are always negotiable.
However, brokerages can setcommissions.
So for example, you might have abrokerage that sets a commission
and...

(35:27):
The policy of that brokerage may
prevent the agent from modifyingthe commission.
That's a possibility because,yeah, there are different
brokerage models out there.
And there's some brokerages that
don't charge a commission.
They may be charged a flat fee.
So, yeah, the consumers in B .C.
have a huge amount of choice.
And the advantage today is thatmost of those choices would result
in their listing showing up onrealtor .ca.
I remember when I started, therewas a for sale by owner websites
that were coming up.
And, you know, but if you had a

(35:47):
for sale by owner home, it wouldnever show up on realtor .ca.
That's a good chance.
these days.
And that helps realtor ca become more powerful because
then you as a buyer can say, well,if it's not on realtor
ca, you know, there probably isn'tany other houses.
Now you can drive to theneighborhood.
You can maybe look at newdevelopments, but you'd be hard
pressed if you're buying a resalehome to accidentally find
something that's not on realtor.ca.
If you had to search properly.
I don't know much about this.

(36:07):
know much about this.
I've seen it a few times, but
there was like a ghost listingtype thing, right?
Where you can pay someone to put alisting on realtor .ca.
And we were posting.
listing on realtor .ca.
And we were posting.
Yeah.
And you just paid somebody like athousand bucks.
to do that and then it's out therebut there's no correspondence on
it?I don't know what they charge but
they charge...
Quite a bit, a bit, you know, so

(36:29):
it's not necessarily a low cost.
And they still have to pay the
buyer's agent.
Yeah, it's a weird strategy.
They don't have to pay the buyer'sagent.
This is where the mirror postingthing comes in.
So what ends up happening is theycontract a brokerage to put their
listing on realtor .ca.
But then as a consumer, they take
the responsibility for answeringthe inquiries.
Right.
So so a realtor or consumer could
call them directly.

(36:50):
So, you know, as a buyer's agent,
I would call up the seller and Iwould book an appointment and meet
with them.
It's a little bit like a regular
listing, but a lot of times thedisclosures are not really there.
You know, the photography is notgreat.
You know, there isn't a floorplan.
And, you know, communicating onbehalf of your own house or your
own, like trying to sell your owncar, you know, you're a little bit

(37:10):
biased sometimes, right?So it sometimes can be very
difficult communicating with them,your posting client.
It can be a little bitchallenging, but they're
definitely there and that's good.
So yeah, it's generally like a
flat fee of some kind, which I'velearned is not that inexpensive,
but it's an option for consumers.
And I think that as realtors,
we're positive about it.
But that goes into the next
question is, is working with abuyer's agent free or not, right?

(37:31):
That's kind of the thing thatcomes up.
You know, you can work with abuyer's agent in BC for free, and
that's probably... one of thebigger myths out there because
it's not free, but there's nocharge in a sense, right?
It's not free, but the price isincluded in realtor
ca listings.
And they still It can be, but
often it's not.
Like, let's just say 25 % of the
listings don't offer a buyeragency fee, for example.
Well, then, you know, how do youas a buyer's agent communicate

(37:55):
with your buyer what you expect tobe paid, remunerated if you create
a transaction for them?So now...
There's a conversation about howdo we speak to buyers early on in
the process about how the realestate professional gets paid,
which is remuneration, which is adifficult word to say sometimes.
And I think that's a goodconversation to have early.
Like if I show you these 10houses, I'm not going to send you
a bill.

(38:15):
Or if I help you analyze this
investment property, I'm not goingto send you a bill for my time.
However, when I write an offer.
and we create a sale, I'll
disclose to you the amount ofmoney I'll be getting.
And if it closes, then I will getthat money.
I call it super contingency.
It's a very interesting way of
getting paid.
But yeah, it can be based on
percentage, it can be based onflat fee, but...
With the disclosures today inBritish Columbia, it really
benefits a licensee to have thatconversation when you first meet

(38:37):
them.
And I'm a big fan of that because
with loyalty, full disclosure,avoiding conflicts and
confidentiality, you're going toget that from a buyer's agent for
free.
But what's the buyer's agent going
to get?How does it all end?
I know you guys can't sell yourown house for E &O, own house for
E &O, right?You wouldn't have insurance
coverage.
As in, realtors can't sell their
own house.
Yeah.
But like Matt, Dean, specific toyou guys, if you could sell your
own house, would you sell ityourself or would you pay the
commission to another agent tosell it?

(38:57):
Like, would you just feel somebodyelse could handle that transaction
better?Like being separated?
This is actually a funny one.
a funny one.
Realtors, a lot of times we'll saylike, listen, office realtor B,
can you sell my house?But can you do it for half a
percent or something?Scratch my back.
I scratch your back.
I always laugh at this because I'm
like, well, they're still doingeverything.
Right.
It's a ton of work.
I always But oh, no, no, I'll doeverything for you.
for you.
Right.

(39:17):
Yeah.
Like I'll do it all for you.
It's like, well, like what?So when I've sold my own house
with other agents, I just paid afull pop. I know some people
don't.
If you're going to do one for the
other, you're going to share.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
I told my wife when I became a
licensed realtor that, oh, don'tworry, honey, I'll save enough
money on our first house sale.
Yeah.
By not having to pay commission toall this income.
And of course, I never did.
But we should be careful, though.

(39:38):
You can sell your own house as alicensee.
You totally can do that.
If you do, however, your E &O
coverage doesn't cover you.
And so I know many licensees that
do sell their own houses.
For example, in what situation
would you want to sell your ownhouse, you know, without any risk?
Well, what if it was a brand newhome and it was under warranty
with a new home warranty?Like resale homes are difficult,
right?Because there's a lot of moving
components.
You maybe only owned a home for
three or four years, right?And so, you know, sometimes you

(40:00):
only disclose what you know.
There's a number of licensees I
know who are comfortable sellingtheir own house.
And the brokerage lets them dothat.
We shy against that because of therisk to the licensee.
But then also to Matt's point, thefreeness of communication is so
much better.
And it's not biased, right?
Because if I'm selling my ownhouse, I'm a sales guy, like I'm
selling hard, right?And it's probably better to take
me out of that environment and letsomebody else handle it more

(40:22):
professionally.
So, but yeah, no, you can sell
your own house.
It's generally not recommended,
but you do see it quite a bit.
And to me, the risk is, can I
disclose everything about thishouse that I know?
And for example, on a brand newhouse, which is, you know, maybe
I've only lived in it for a fewmonths and it's a brand new
neighborhood and there's lots ofdisclosures.
I might feel very comfortableabout that.
But if I'm in an older property,maybe it's an acreage, maybe

(40:43):
there's a well, maybe there'szoning issues, you know, maybe
there's lots of history to theproperty that I'm not party to.
I would probably hire an agent andpay them as much as I could.
I did sell one of my own houses anumber of years ago and I made a
deal with the agent where I wouldhelp her with hers and that never
manifests itself.
But yeah, I'm kind of more leaning
down Matt's philosophy on that.

(41:03):
I think the biggest thing that is
going to help consumers understandis that right now, the regulator's
got a lot of projects on the go.
And the one thing that I really
want to say is that if you look atstatistically the number of
complaints versus number oftransactions in British Columbia,
the complaint rate per transactionper side is less than 0 .05%.
So unbeknownst to the publicperception or the government's
perception, the politician'sperception, when we look at it

(41:23):
from the regulator's perspectiveand from organized real estate,
which are leaders in real estate,there isn't a lot of problems per
se.
Like if a consumer has a bad
experience in a real estatetransaction, it doesn't mean that
there was misconduct.
I mean, you know, if you're trying
to get a good price for yourproperty and you don't like the
other agent, well, that doesn'tmean they did anything wrong.
You just weren't happy that youdidn't get the price you want.

(41:44):
And I think that's sort of part ofworking with consumers.
But I think the profession is veryhealthy.
I think we offer very goodservice.
When you sit down with a licenseeand you sit down talking about
buying or selling your property, Iwould encourage in both
situations, interviewing therealtor for an hour.
You know, I've been a bigproponent with this, with the new
licensees and saying.
If you're going to buy a house in
British Columbia and spend three,four, five million, two million,
three million dollars, that agentand you should sit down for one
hour in your office and go throughhow you're going to work together

(42:06):
and go through these forms.
I mean, it does take actually
about 45 minutes to sign all thepreamble paperwork, the
disclosures, the privacydocuments.
And that's the one step that I'mnot seeing happen enough.
And I think that that's too badbecause I think realtors and
consumers miss an opportunity toreally get aligned on their
values.
Because when you explain the
duties that we owe, a client.
I've never seen a client say, no,
I don't want that.
I don't want you to be loyal.

(42:27):
I don't want you to give me fulldisclosure.
I don't want you to avoidconfidentiality.
Nobody says that.
They want those things.
But what does that look like whenwe go show houses?
What does that look like if I walkinto a show home by myself?
And, you know, what does this looklike as we work together?
So I would encourage consumers andrealtors to sit down with their
client for an hour and go throughthe paperwork and really talk
about what it means as you'regoing to work together.
And then the same thing on thelisting side.

(42:48):
I mean, One of the biggest mythsthat I see from the listing side
is I'm going to take professionalphotos of the listing and I'm
going to do 3D and everythingelse.
When the reality is that's not areason to choose a listing agent.
Because first of all, real estatephotos kind of look good, but
they're not technically goodphotos.
But we know that a good realtorwho's a good negotiator does get
better results from their clients.
Am I good at negotiating with you

(43:09):
as a seller or am I good atnegotiating on your behalf?
right for your million dollars oram I good at convincing you to
sign the contract and you knowthere's a disconnect sometimes
with that and then as a buyer'sagent the buyer's agent writes the
contract and so to me negotiationis important too so and I think a
new agent that's supported bytheir brokerage and an experienced
agent that has that same supportyou know, they can do amazing
things for their clients.
And so hopefully we've shed a

(43:30):
little bit of light on some of themyths and the nuances, but that's
kind of my last little soapbox.
I'm excited about the profession
in the next few years.
And I do think that the regulator
might come out with a framework tomake buyer agreements mandatory at
some level from a consumerprotection side.
I don't think that they can forceeveryone to do that, but I do
think it's a really goodrecommendation, mostly because you
want to front end theconversation, right?
Yeah, I like it.
All right, Dean, that was an

(43:50):
awesome conversation.
I think it was super helpful for
consumers, realtors, me.
Thanks a lot.

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