September 30, 2025 • 46 mins
WATCH
▶️ Watch this episode on YouTube
***
EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Episode 106: Matt and Taylor are joined by Caroline Coudreau. Caroline is a CPA and Corporate Debt Advisor at Lakepoint Capital from Kelowna, BC, who relocated from Vancouver 2 years ago. Caroline joined Lakepoint Capital just over a year ago, bringing with her more than a decade of experience in commercial lending and financial analysis from her earlier career at Canada's largest Credit Union.
Founded in March of 2023, Lakepoint Capital specializes in Corporate Debt Advisory and Commercial Real Estate Financing, acting as a trusted intermediary between clients and a wide network of Canadian banks, credit unions, and non-bank lenders. The firm provides tailored financing solutions to successful business owners, real estate developers, and commercial property investors.
Caroline is here to discuss: → The steps to take before getting project financing, what lenders like to see when getting quotes from builders, and the lowest profit margins for a lender. → Why developers like phased projects, pre-sales impact on financing, and land financing and it's increasing costs. → Problems holding up development right now, current difficulties in making projects pencil, and if housing costs will continue to rise.
Lakepoint Capital Website: www.lakepointcapital.ca
Lakpoint Capital Instagram: @lakepointcapital
Caroline Coudreau's LinkedIn: @CarolineCoudreau
***
OUR SPONSOR
The Kelowna Real Estate Podcast is brought to you by Century 21 Assurance Realty, the gold standard in real estate. To learn more, visit: www.c21kelowna.ca
***
CONNECT WITH THE SHOW
Kelowna Real Estate Podcast: @kelownarealestate
Kelowna Real Estate Podcast YouTube: @KelownaRealEstatePodcast
Kelowna Real Estate Podcast Instagram: @kelownarealestatepodcast
***
CONNECT WITH MATT
Matt Glen's Website: www.mattglen.ca
Matt Glen's Email: matt.glen@century21.ca
Matt Glen's Instagram: @mattglenrealestate
***
CONNECT WITH TAYLOR
Taylor Atkinson's Website: www.venturemortgages.com
Taylor Atkinson's Email: taylor@venturemortgages.com
Taylor Atkinson's Instagram: @VentureMortgages
***
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to the Mortgage GamePodcast.
West Coast whiteboard, Wiley inthe house, recording live from the
Dodge Ram studio down at thebeach.
Saturday morning, about to takeoff to Vancouver for some academy
(00:52):
league games with the kids,soccer.
Got six games, two today and fourtomorrow.
um gonna do that super pumped justbefore we get into what today's
podcast about and today's animportant one podcast um just a
lot of stuff i'm seeing out theredifferent angles of things and so
this is should be a good oneshould just be like a high if if
(01:15):
anything i'm just reminding yousome of your superpowers but maybe
i'm giving some of you superpowerson this call but before that just
we're working on a project i'mgonna i'm gonna shout it out to
the world at some point but we'reworking on a project behind the
scenes and we're We're coming upwith our own Team Wiley CRM.
And it's freaking awesome.
And so we're taking one that's
already out there.
We're bringing it in.
We're putting my marketing, mineto it, combining with a couple
(01:39):
other people.
And we're building out this thing.
We're going to launch it withinthe team with probably the next 30
to 45 days.
It's going to be freaking awesome.
Out of the box, it's going to be,in my opinion, the best CRM out
there.
And hey, everyone's got their CRM.
CRM, talking CRM is like talkingpolitics with brokers.
Everyone's like, no, mine's thebest because it's got this.
Not getting into that.
I'm just going a lot of brokers.
(02:00):
And the reason we're doing it andsome of you are like, Ryan, you
never had a CRM.
Why are you doing it?
You actually made a podcast whereI don't think you need a CRM.
Yeah.
Well, the way that I roll with my
business versus the way that otherbrokers can roll, it's not the
same.
And so, yeah, I didn't have a CRM.
So I tracked email.
I had a marketing CRM where we
emailed people things.
(02:21):
regularly, but I didn't have
something.
And then we tracked mortgage rates
and whatnot, but I didn't havesomething where I could see, I
would just go into the submissionplatform and go, oh, that was kind
of the CRM.
Here you go.
It's in here.
I never saw the purpose of it, but
I could broker that way.
And it worked really, really well
for us. 90 % of brokers need somesort of client journey built in to
(02:43):
a process, a system.
And so it's, why is it my opinion?
I'm not trying to force my opinionon anyone.
And so we decided to, hey, let'sgo bring in.
We think there's a ton of value inhaving CRM that manages the
workflow of a client before doesall the follow ups with leads and
whatnot.
So we're not going to get into it
here.
Plus, there's a marketing angle to
it with webinars and all thisstuff and some other cool things
(03:09):
in there.
just pumped about it because this
is my world behind the scenes.
We're spending a lot of time on
this.
Next week, we'll be spending a lot
more time on it, getting it allsorted and whatnot and building
it.
So let's get into what we're
talking about today.
So we ran a training session on
Thursday and the training sessionwas, it was a man one training
session.
Okay.
Now this isn't a man one call.
I'm not like this episode, but I'm
going to sprinkle in a couple ofthings about the man one, but this
(03:33):
is also just about how you Likefinding opportunities on the
discovery call and not being anorder taker, and a lot of you are,
and even really good mortgageagents.
You're just dropping the ball allover the place.
So I'm going to frame a scenarioto you, a client scenario, and
then I'm going to go, what do youdo?
And normally, like in thetraining, we paused for 20
minutes.
People went back and then came
(03:53):
back with a plan and thenpresented it to the team.
And then I said, okay, now this iswhat I would do.
Right.
And that was like, ah, OK.
And a lot of times we're talkingabout the same thing.
I'm just saying it differently.
And sometimes I'm just showing
different angles that other peoplemiss.
So that's what we're going to talkabout today.
OK, because a lot of you aregetting people come to you and it
could be a purchase.
(04:14):
It could be maybe a refi,
definitely renewals and purchases.
And it's like, hey, Ryan, I've got
my renewal offer sitting here.
It's a 404 from RBC.
What do you got?Right.
So this is my question to you isand then we'll frame the client
scenario we trained on and thenI'll explain what I did with that
scenario.
Because a lot of you are just
missing the mark here.
And some of you just don't know
what you don't know.
(04:36):
Others of you are just freaking
lazy and you just you haven'tupped your game.
You've been in the game for awhile and you just like refused to
up your game.
And I'm like, okay.
So hopefully after this, you willbe like, yeah, totally get it,
Ryan.
Ah, interesting.
That's cool.
Different way of thinking about
it, different way of positioningit.
And so client comes to you andthis is what I've got.
(04:57):
What's your answer?Like, what's your move?
Do you go your usual way and yougo, hey, well, how's this service
been at RBC?Well, yeah, it's been okay.
Okay, did you know that theirprepayment privileges are only 10
%?Did you know that if one of you
passes, God forbid, that the otherperson has to re -qualify for the
mortgage?Like if that's your move, you're
fucked.
Sorry, I hope there's no kids in
(05:17):
the car.
I should have warned you up front.
I think you know by now.
So you are.
You are screwed if that's yourmove.
You might as well just pack up.
You might as well just carry on.
Because at some point, you justwon't have any business.
You'll have no moves, right?And now I'm not getting into
advanced stuff here.
(05:39):
I'm talking, I'm going to give you
like the bare bones stuff.
This is the minimum stuff you need
to understand on this episode,right?
I'm not going to get into thefancy, super advanced stuff.
I'm not.
This is all stuff you should know.
And if you don't, I don't knowwhat you're doing.
Honestly, if someone comes to youlike that, what's your move?
What do you do?This is a general, I'm just
putting that question out theuniverse before I do that.
(06:01):
And we carry on this podcast isbrought to you by Americano.
Oh, it's a hot one.
Go figure.
Uh, so that's the thing.
Like, and, and now it's like, Oh,
my customer service is reallygood.
And I'll share.
And like, this used to work back
then.
And it was, and mine was always,
Hey, I'll build you a customerproposal.
I'll walk you through all thenumbers.
(06:22):
And so when someone comes to me ata four Oh four, and I've got a
four.
Three, four.
Let's just say.
These are the numbers, right?
I'm a 30 basis point difference.
What do I do?
Well, initially, I know a lot ofyou are like, I look for a debt
console.
100%.
That's a move.
You look and you go, hey, do you
have any high interest debt youwant to swap out?
(06:43):
How's cash flow?You're looking to pull money out.
Do anything you turn into maybe arefi.
You're looking to pull out moneyfor any home renovations.
Like all stuff that they couldjust walk into the branch and do.
Okay.
Those aren't advanced strategies.
Those aren't strategies.
They are, it's common sense moves.
And you'll still pick upbreadcrumbs.
You'll still get deals from that.
Those moves are never going away.
And I'm going to package some ofthose moves and what I would do in
(07:05):
this scenario.
But it's like, then after that, so
if there's no debt console, and somine used to be, hey, I'm looking
for a debt console, looking topull money out to like start a
business, help family out, help mykids out, help whatever, buy an
investment product.
If they're not doing that, they're
like, no, no, we're good.
Everything's good.
And we're putting money here andthere.
(07:26):
And I'm like, great.
Okay.
Then I would go.
So you're telling me the number
one thing is, is paying off yourmortgage as fast as possible.
They're like, yes, Ron.
So then that's when I would take
them to what I had at that pointwas mortgagefreein10years .com.
It's not, not around anymore.
If you're checking it out and I
just show them how to buy aninvestment property, one
investment property.
And eventually with a two, 3 % of
(07:48):
your appreciation and mortgage paydown after 10 years, I have enough
money.
And they cash out.
If they sell the property and theypay their capital gains and exit
costs, they could pay off theirprincipal residence.
That was the move.
And it worked very well.
That move right now isn't there,where it's definitely pushing a
big boulder up a hill, up amountain, actually, to convince
people to buy investors.
So take that off the table.
A lot of you weren't even doingthat.
So now what do you do?right?
You're sitting there and you'relike, shit, I got like, and so you
(08:12):
start scrambling, you go and youstart sending out emails to BDMs
and colleagues and you look onlender spotlight and you're
sifting through your inbox,looking for rate specials.
And you're trying to find like aneedle in the haystack.
And then you're going, okay, well,the mortgage is 700 ,000 and I can
get this maybe on exception on afour to none.
What if I buy it down more?And what, and you start going that
(08:32):
and then you're working for 30, 40basis points on a deal.
And, and, and that's the energyout there right now.
Because you'll never have the bestinterest rate.
Nine times out of 10, you won'thave the best interest rate.
You'll find opportunities withininsurable transfers and blah,
blah, blah, and all that stuff.
But for the most part, nine times
out of 10, definitely in theuninsured world, you will never
have the best interest rate.
And this is why a lot of you are
going, I don't like that type ofbusiness anymore.
(08:55):
I want to do B and private.
I want to do stuff where rate
doesn't matter as much.
And that's where you go.
And it's like, okay, so let mepaint this scenario for you, okay?
Trying to remember it from, wedid, I had it all mapped on the
whiteboard and I said, okay,everyone take 20 minutes and go,
come back with a plan for this.
So the clients, they had a
mortgage, let's call theirmortgage, it was $700 ,000
(09:16):
mortgage, or no, it was $500 ,000,I think, whatever, it doesn't
really matter.
Half a million dollar mortgage,
RBC, three year, 404 on the table,okay?
These clients had typical debt.
Let's call it 15K in credit cards,
making 650 a month payment.
I'm going to talk slower here
because we're numbers.
They had a car payment, maybe 30
grand owing on it, like $700 amonth payment at 2 % interest.
(09:37):
They had $50 ,000 sitting in ahigh interest savings account over
here.
They had 150K in GICs and RSPs.
about $11 ,000 a month of netincome.
They had household expenses, about$4 ,500 plus mortgage payment.
And they were putting $500 a monthaway into an investment.
So they had about $2 ,000 a monthof cash flow.
That's what they had.
Now, going through that discovery
call, this is the information I'mfinding out.
This is how the discovery callworks.
(10:00):
I need to figure out some of this.
I'm trying to find opportunities
for me to weave in my value.
Right?
If I'm just like, rate, okay, gotit, got it, yeah, don't know what
to do, go over here, get a betterrate, see you later.
Tell your friends about me.
(10:20):
Or this move, which I know a lot
of you do, which drives me crazy,is, hey, I'll write you an email.
And hey, I did this too, by theway.
I did it too.
So I'm not like... saying, Oh, I'm
(10:43):
above that.
I did this too.
Okay.
I didn't do it a lot, but there
were times I did that.
Definitely.
If it was like really goodreferral partners and stuff like
that.
Um, but I just do it for
everybody, but Hey, I'll write youan email and I'll help you get a
better rate there.
And then you can, uh, and then if
(11:05):
anyone, you know, that needs amortgage comes along, if you refer
me like, that'd be awesome.
And you're trying to like put
goodwill out there, but like,think about that for a second.
This person came to you, youdidn't solve a problem of theirs.
They got a better interest rate ontheir own.
And what are they going to gotell?
What are they going to tell theirbuddy?
Hey, go use Ryan.
(11:26):
Fuck, what did he do?
He did nothing.
I got a better rate already.
And he didn't tell me how to doanything else.
And he wrote me an email.
Cool.
So go to him and he'll write youan email.
So you can get a better rate ofyour bank.
It's crazy when you think aboutit.
It's like, what are you doing?Like, come on.
You got to be better if that'syour move.
then you have to look in themirror at some things.
Okay, so this podcast is broughtto you by Americana.
(11:46):
And I know some of you, you havemoves up your sleeve, you have
strategies, and you do that oncein a while.
Cool, I'm not shitting on you.
I'm just saying in general, like
if that's where your head goes,more that's what I'm saying.
If that's where your head goes, Ican't help, I can't beat that
rate, I'll help you get a betterand hopefully you send me business
(12:09):
or hopefully you introduce me tosomeone.
Like if that's where you're at thesequence of thoughts, We have a
problem, Houston.
We definitely have a problem.
So this scenario, this client,average amount of debt, 22 years
left on the amortization.
Forgot to mention that.
They have some investments.
They have $2 ,000 a month left
over cash flow.
Pretty typical.
They're pushing money into savingsevery month.
They have that rainy day fundsitting there.
What they have.
So it's kind of like, what do you
(12:30):
do there?And they're going through that
call.
Their goal goals is this is, hey,
we'd love to have more improvedcash flow.
Number one.
Number two, we'd love to pay that
mortgage off faster.
And number three, we might
renovate our basement in the nextone to two years.
So we want to be able to do that.
OK, and that could be 50 to 75
grand.
OK, so now what do you do there?
right?So I'm going to go, I'm going to
(12:51):
come back to you with the resultthat I got them and then I'll
break down how I got there.
Okay.
And so this is where most of youlive in this world right now.
Me, I'm an, I analyzed all thisand I do this on the fly on the
discovery call.
Some of you won't have the
(13:14):
expertise or wherewithal to dothat.
So then you would break it downbehind the scenes and come back to
them, but I'm going to come tothem and I'm going to say this,
I'm going to go, Hey, This isawesome.
And going through all these, I'vebeen crunching some numbers.
I have my calculators open andboom, boom, boom.
I have an opportunity.
(13:34):
I think if we partner together,
this is what I could execute foryou.
I'd be able to increase yourcashflow by about $500 a month,
which you said you wanted.
I'd actually, the $500 a month
you're pushing into investment,I'd show you a way we can double
that.
We'll put $1 ,000 a month away
instead of $500, I'm sure.
(13:54):
That kind of intrigues you.
Would you agree?And they're like, oh, wow, that's
cool.
Okay.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I'm going to make sure we have $75,000, $80 ,000 available sitting
there for you to renovate thebasement if you need it.
You're not going to pay for thatmoney until you use it.
Okay.
And they're like, okay, that's
intriguing.
I'm also going to show you a way
with just one move.
Pretty simple.
I'll hold your hand through it.
If we partner together, we can
save you, get you a $1 ,000 taxrefund every year.
(14:15):
Okay.
Maybe more.
But I'm estimating at least $1,000 a year in tax refunds, just
free money from CRA.
Oh, okay.
Wow.
Interesting.
And then the start of the show isI'm going to show you how we can
cut your amortization, yourmortgage in half from 22 years to
11 years.
Nothing in your world is going to
change.
Your quality of life is going to
stay the same.
I'm going to piece that plan
(14:36):
together for you.
How does that sound?
So improve cash flow, double yourinvestments.
$1 ,000 a year tax refund, if notmore, give you the money for the
basement.
Don't pay for it until you use it
and cut your mortgage in half.
Ah, okay.
Now you got me.
I'm interested.
So they came to me with like, andI'm going to tell you right now,
and this is up to you how you wantto weave this in, but my interest
(15:00):
rates, not 404.
I can never get to 404.
Never could.
My interest rates probably going
to be 4, 4, 4 .5, somewhere inthat range, give or take, but I'm
going to accomplish all this overhere.
And this is where I would have hadthe conversation up front, the
interest rate for, okay, and sowhat's your goal here?
Are you looking for the lowestinterest rate?
(15:20):
Are you looking for the lowestpayment?
And you've heard me talk aboutthis in other episodes.
Are you looking to pay off yourmortgage as fast as possible, pay
the least amount of interest?Because they're not all the same.
If they come back and go, oh, Iwant the lowest payment.
Because why do you think theinterest rate is so important?
The interest rate is absolutelyimportant, but why do you, Mr. and
Mrs. Klein, think it's soimportant?
I want to know why you think that.
(15:41):
Oh, lowest payment.
No, it's not.
Because we could throw your
mortgage into a HELOC, interest-only payments, and that's a lower
payment.
Oh, okay, okay.
Usually people think it's becausethey pay the least amount of
interest, which means they get topay the mortgage off fast.
And I'm assuming that's whatyou're connecting the dots on
there.
And they're usually like, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
So it'll be a version of that.
So as soon as I get them tounderstand.
(16:02):
They just want to pay the leastamount of interest to be mortgage
-free faster.
I've shifted it off of rate
because rate won't get therebecause the plan that I just told
you, increase cash flow, doubleyour investments, tax refund every
year, money for your basement, andcut your mortgage in half.
None of that involves the lowestinterest rate.
So you start going, okay, I'm notjust an interest rate guy.
I'm a mortgage planner here.
Right.
So now I'm going to explain to youhow we do that.
(16:23):
And a lot of this is just stuff,you know, we're just framing it
differently.
And other stuff I'm going to
explain to you might be like,shit, I didn't know that.
Okay.
So this podcast brought to you by
America.
Remember, it's how do you paint us
a picture?How do you tell a story through
the numbers?And I'm living in the, I'm going
to do these five things for you ifwe partner together and it costs
(16:44):
you $0.
You're living in that.
Uh, yeah, I'll try to find likethe best rate for you.
Right.
I don't have another move.
And so how do we do this?Well, right out of the gate, I
knew they had 50 K sitting in andthere's a bunch of ways you can do
this.
I'm just, so don't be like, Hey,
Ryan, what if you did this?And you do a hundred percent, a
hundred thousand percent.
But yeah, they have $50 ,000
(17:05):
sitting there in a high interestsavings account, just sitting
there.
Okay.
You could put that, have that asfor the renovation money, blah,
blah, blah.
I'm just going to go, Hey.
You know, either we make aprepayment on your mortgage now
and pay down your $500 ,000mortgage down to $450 ,000 or
(17:27):
after the fact, down your $500,000 mortgage down to $450 ,000 or
after the fact, we can do it.
I'm just going to say up front,
let's do it up front.
Let's do a prepayment on your
mortgage, put it down to $450,000.
When we do the renewal, we'regoing to put that $500 ,000 back
on your mortgage.
We'll get that $50 ,000 back.
So do it.
You'll sit there for a week or
(17:48):
two, and then we're going to pullit off at closing with the new, if
we decide to partner together.
I'm not explaining this to them on
the call, by the way.
I'm not getting into how we're
doing all this.
I want them to send an application
and documents in, and then I'mgoing to build the proposal and
walk them through it on a video.
I'm definitely not explaining this
to them.
(18:09):
Now that we've got that $50 ,000
we prepaid down and we borrowedback out, we're allowed to write
the interest off on that $50 ,000.
We can.
That's where that tax refund comesfrom.
Once again, I'm not explainingthis to the client right now.
This is just you and I talking.
mortgage agent or broker mortgage
agent or broker um so now it'scalled a debt swap it's a
accelerator of the smith maneuverit's one shot deal many of you can
(18:30):
do personally and reap the rewardslong term and so now i get to
write that interest off so i'm notgoing to get into how we structure
it and how we just for simplicitypurposes their mortgage is down to
450 now we're going to put a 500000 mortgage we're actually going
to increase that because we'regoing to do a deck and solve for
cash flow but So they get that $50,000.
We'll replenish the high interestsavings account now when it comes
tax time.
Let's just say they're paying 5 %
interest, for easy math, on thatmoney, on the mortgage.
(18:50):
Mortgage amount is 5%, let's justsay.
That's $2 ,500.
$2 ,500 a year of interest they're
paying.
So they get to write that off.
And assuming they're at a 40 % taxbracket, it might be higher.
Let's just say 40%.
40 % of the $2 ,500 is $1 ,000.
they get a $1 ,000 refund, right?If they prepaid their taxes and
whatnot.
So $1 ,000 refund, that's what we
did.
Just move the money around, shift
(19:10):
it, put it back where it was.
They can still start earning the
money over there.
That's called the debt swap.
It's like, it's a move that mostof your clients can make and it
would set you apart.
Now they can either keep that $1
,000 as cashflow every year orthey can put it against the
mortgage.
Ah, but we're not even going to
(19:31):
get to that.
That's like bonus stuff.
Okay, so that's one.
Then we're going to do a typical
debt or a debt consult becausethey told me cashflow.
So I'm going to come back.
And just because the interest rate
on that car, I told you it was 2 %and the interest rate on the
mortgage you're going to give themis four and a half.
A lot of you are telling, you tellthe story already.
(19:52):
You're like, I wouldn't do that.
So I'm not going to present it.
Like, what are you doing?Present the story to the client.
Hey, I want to free up cashflow.
This, I came up with this.
And so we're going to improve yourcashflow by X. We're going to roll
that in.
I know it's only at 2%, but you
told me cash flow was important toyou.
(20:13):
So this is what we're going to do.
So in this scenario we ran, we
put, let's just call it a 550mortgage on.
We paid out the car, the creditcard, and the car, car, the credit
card.
And we also paid out, we're
pulling 50K back out because themortgage is only 450.
We're pulling 50K back out toreplenish the investment.
Okay, so there.
So far, now with that debt
(20:34):
console, I've increased their cashflow by $1 ,000 a month.
I'm taking half of that, and I'mgoing to double their investment.
They're already putting $500 amonth away.
I'm presenting a story.
Hey, we're going to double your
investments to $1 ,000 now.
I bet your financial advisor would
be happy, and I bet you'd be happyknowing you're putting money away.
And I'm going to increase, so I'mcutting in half.
How you present that up to you.
This is just how I did it because
(20:56):
it sounds really good.
When I go $500 a month cash flow,
double your investments, $1 ,000tax refund.
I've already accomplished thosethree things.
Next, we're going to set theglobal limit higher because there
was room in the loan to value.
And in this scenario, we were able
to give them about an $85 ,000home equity line with no balance
on it, which they could use.
For the basement, if they ever
used, did build it.
If not, it's not costing them a
dollar, right?That's pretty standard.
So now I've accomplished thatbecause they told me that was
(21:18):
something that they were talkingabout.
This podcast is brought to you byAmerican.
And then the last move is thatextra $2 ,500 a month in cash flow
now that they have just goes intothe prepayment strategy, which you
can do at any bank.
I'm going to use Manulife for this
example because it is fullyautomated and it's super easy to
do.
Very user friendly in the back
(21:39):
end.
And I am going to structure that
in there, which then takes themortgage from 22 to 11.
We did the math on the calculatorup there.
Here you go.
So that's what I'm bringing to the
table.
Right.
And I'll get into maybe we'll talka little bit about the man one and
how I'd structure that andwhatnot, because some of you are
(22:01):
who aren't up to speed.
Hey, have any of you noticed
there's a lot of people talkingabout the man one, the power of
the pitch?I wonder why.
I wonder why.
This is a movement, kids.
This is a movement to get youthinking differently about being a
broker.
And the argument I get is it's too
risky.
No, it's because a lot of you are
just idiots in how you set it up.
(22:22):
You're setting it up risky.
You've been taught to set it uprisky, right?
There's no way in hell I wouldgive someone with a $2 ,000 a
month cash flow.
that I would give them a half a
million dollar, put their wholemortgage in a HELOC.
A lot of you are doing that.
You're putting 550 ,000 into the
HELOC or 350 ,000 in the HELOC.
I don't understand why you're
(22:43):
doing that.
It doesn't make sense.
You don't put that much in.
You have to figure out, you just
put a small amount in, right?You put a small amount in the
HELOC.
So you carve out for the HELOCs.
For this example, we carved out 50,000.
So we gave them about $140 ,000HELOC, 50 advanced.
The other 90, let's call it, wasfor the basement if they needed it
sitting there.
And then the rest of the funds
(23:04):
went into sub -accounts, re-advanceable, non -re
-advanceable, depending on the 65% threshold.
Won't get into breaking that down.
That's not what this calls about.
But that's what we did.
And now that $2 ,500 can just be
applied against the balance on theHELOC.
And now when it gets paid downeventually, in probably three
years, give or take, two to threeyears.
We just would put a new balanceback on the HELOC.
So the only difference we've giventhese people is we've given them
(23:26):
an interest -only payment on $50,000 versus locking it all up into
an AM mortgage.
But if we lock it all up into an
AM mortgage, they don't have anyupside.
They're in a 22 -year AM.
If we set it up this way, and
maybe their payments are about$30, $40 different, that's the
additional cash flow they getbecause it's in a HELOC.
(23:47):
Whereas a lot of you havestructured it so that all the
money, all the mortgage goes inthe HELOC and they're sitting here
with like four grand a month leftover going, holy crap, we're
ballers now.
Let's go party.
That's risky.
That's wrong.
And so this has zero risk to it.
Like literally zero risk.
We're giving them interest onlypayments on 50K, right?
With a plan in place.
(24:07):
And I'm going to monitor with them
and set it up correct and checkin.
I make sure the plan's working.
It's a simple plan.
It's all automated.
That's why we're going to man one.
So that's what I'm bringing to thetable.
I'm bringing to the table.
So if that client is talking to
you and they have that situationand then they talk to me and I
(24:30):
don't broker, by the way.
So when I say that, I'm just
talking out loud like thatscenario, but I don't broker
anymore.
Happened in a while.
Sometimes makes me want to go backin because I'm like, oh my God,
I'd crush it.
I would absolutely destroy it.
I know I would.
But I'm on a different journey.
I will not broker again.
I'm on a different path.
I'm teaching people this, right?How to think this way.
(24:50):
And that's where I get leverage.
Now I get leverage because I have
a bunch of agents who willhopefully go out and do all this.
And they are.
So this is the thinking.
It's like now that person, okay,now I know why I'm going to go
over here.
You're right.
And this is with a 4 .4 interestrate, right?
A blended rate between 4 .34 andthe 50K and the HELOC.
Maybe it works out to 4 .4.
(25:10):
four, four, four, two, whatever,
somewhere in there.
But that's like, I've changed the
game.
I've changed the conversation.
We're not talking interest rateanymore.
I'm addressing their problems andtheir pain points.
This podcast brought to you byAmerican.
So, right.
And that's a big thing that you
need to figure out your only goal.
Not your only goal.
One of your main goals on thatdiscovery call outside, you want
(25:33):
to make sure they're not anasshole.
You want to make sure they're notdisrespectful.
You want to make sure they havegood credit or whatever your
avatar is.
You want to make sure they have a
job.
You want to make sure they have
equity in their home.
Like you want to make sure all
that stuff.
But then on top of that, I need to
(25:53):
figure out their pain.
And if they're coming to me with
interest rate and that's it, Ihaven't asked the right questions
then.
Right.
I haven't asked the rightquestions.
I need to figure out the pain.
Because then that's where I can
put the plan together to solve thepain, solve the problem.
So for them, I knew they neededcash flow.
And I knew they wanted to pay themortgage off faster.
And then third, it was just moneyfor a basement.
(26:16):
What if money for the basement?A lot of people just be like,
yeah, just use your savings.
No, no, no. Your tax refund goes
away.
There's a different way to do it.
And maybe they do that as well.
I don't know.
There's eight different ways wecan do this through move and
shake.
So I wanted to point this out.
This is a training exercise wedid.
We do these every Thursday on theteam.
It's all man one related.
We put scenarios up there and we
(26:37):
go, how can we package this,create a story and present it from
this?And I'll tell you right now, the
star of the show, and this is abig thing a lot of you, I think
you're missing the mark on whenyou're seeing people out there
talking about the man one.
The man one is not the star of the
(26:59):
show.
You're the freaking star of the
show.
That scenario I just created, that
was me.
Just so happens, the tool we're
going to use is going to be theman one.
The man one's like number two orthree down the list here.
It's me.
I'm the star of the show.
And a lot of you are trying tohide behind these products,
whatever they are.
In all reality, you're that.
And the way you present it, theway you make the people feel, the
way you uncover problems theydidn't know they had.
(27:19):
A way that you just...
Keep the conversation focused on
the pain points they have.
And then create a situation where
you can solve them.
What would it look like?
Like, I can do this for you.
Increase cash flow, tax refund,
double your investments, cut yourmortgage in half, give you money
for the bill.
Like, that's a completely
different story, right?Ah, but that's because I'm the
(27:43):
star.
I'm the star of the show.
And this is just another tool Ihave, is to do this.
Right?So I want to put that out there.
Hopefully that means something toyou.
Hopefully you learned somethingthere.
Hopefully you are looking in themirror and going, I need to up my
game.
And whatever that means for you,
because I'm here to tell you, youdo.
You absolutely do.
There are seasoned pros out there
(28:03):
where their businesses areigniting on fire.
They're just like, because theyhaven't upped their game.
They got lazy.
And they did things the old way.
And they're like, hey, we'rebuddies.
We're friends.
We know the same people.
Yeah, but 30 basis points, dude.
Over five years.
It's a lot of money.
Like, I like you, but not that
much.
Right?
The old way of brokerage is outthe window.
There's snippets of it.
They can still win.
But five years from now, threeyears from now, they'll have
(28:23):
nothing.
So you need to make a shift
somewhere.
So hopefully this helps you with
that shift.
That's it, kids.
Enjoy your weekend.
Peace out.
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to the Mortgage GamePodcast.
West Coast whiteboard, Wiley inthe house, recording live from the
Dodge Ram studio down at thebeach.
Saturday morning, about to takeoff to Vancouver for some academy
(00:52):
league games with the kids,soccer.
Got six games, two today and fourtomorrow.
um gonna do that super pumped justbefore we get into what today's
podcast about and today's animportant one podcast um just a
lot of stuff i'm seeing out theredifferent angles of things and so
this is should be a good oneshould just be like a high if if
(01:15):
anything i'm just reminding yousome of your superpowers but maybe
i'm giving some of you superpowerson this call but before that just
we're working on a project i'mgonna i'm gonna shout it out to
the world at some point but we'reworking on a project behind the
scenes and we're We're coming upwith our own Team Wiley CRM.
And it's freaking awesome.
And so we're taking one that's
already out there.
We're bringing it in.
We're putting my marketing, mineto it, combining with a couple
(01:39):
other people.
And we're building out this thing.
We're going to launch it withinthe team with probably the next 30
to 45 days.
It's going to be freaking awesome.
Out of the box, it's going to be,in my opinion, the best CRM out
there.
And hey, everyone's got their CRM.
CRM, talking CRM is like talkingpolitics with brokers.
Everyone's like, no, mine's thebest because it's got this.
Not getting into that.
I'm just going a lot of brokers.
(02:00):
And the reason we're doing it andsome of you are like, Ryan, you
never had a CRM.
Why are you doing it?
You actually made a podcast whereI don't think you need a CRM.
Yeah.
Well, the way that I roll with my
business versus the way that otherbrokers can roll, it's not the
same.
And so, yeah, I didn't have a CRM.
So I tracked email.
I had a marketing CRM where we
emailed people things.
(02:21):
regularly, but I didn't have
something.
And then we tracked mortgage rates
and whatnot, but I didn't havesomething where I could see, I
would just go into the submissionplatform and go, oh, that was kind
of the CRM.
Here you go.
It's in here.
I never saw the purpose of it, but
I could broker that way.
And it worked really, really well
for us. 90 % of brokers need somesort of client journey built in to
(02:43):
a process, a system.
And so it's, why is it my opinion?
I'm not trying to force my opinionon anyone.
And so we decided to, hey, let'sgo bring in.
We think there's a ton of value inhaving CRM that manages the
workflow of a client before doesall the follow ups with leads and
whatnot.
So we're not going to get into it
here.
Plus, there's a marketing angle to
it with webinars and all thisstuff and some other cool things
(03:09):
in there.
just pumped about it because this
is my world behind the scenes.
We're spending a lot of time on
this.
Next week, we'll be spending a lot
more time on it, getting it allsorted and whatnot and building
it.
So let's get into what we're
talking about today.
So we ran a training session on
Thursday and the training sessionwas, it was a man one training
session.
Okay.
Now this isn't a man one call.
I'm not like this episode, but I'm
going to sprinkle in a couple ofthings about the man one, but this
(03:33):
is also just about how you Likefinding opportunities on the
discovery call and not being anorder taker, and a lot of you are,
and even really good mortgageagents.
You're just dropping the ball allover the place.
So I'm going to frame a scenarioto you, a client scenario, and
then I'm going to go, what do youdo?
And normally, like in thetraining, we paused for 20
minutes.
People went back and then came
(03:53):
back with a plan and thenpresented it to the team.
And then I said, okay, now this iswhat I would do.
Right.
And that was like, ah, OK.
And a lot of times we're talkingabout the same thing.
I'm just saying it differently.
And sometimes I'm just showing
different angles that other peoplemiss.
So that's what we're going to talkabout today.
OK, because a lot of you aregetting people come to you and it
could be a purchase.
(04:14):
It could be maybe a refi,
definitely renewals and purchases.
And it's like, hey, Ryan, I've got
my renewal offer sitting here.
It's a 404 from RBC.
What do you got?Right.
So this is my question to you isand then we'll frame the client
scenario we trained on and thenI'll explain what I did with that
scenario.
Because a lot of you are just
missing the mark here.
And some of you just don't know
what you don't know.
(04:36):
Others of you are just freaking
lazy and you just you haven'tupped your game.
You've been in the game for awhile and you just like refused to
up your game.
And I'm like, okay.
So hopefully after this, you willbe like, yeah, totally get it,
Ryan.
Ah, interesting.
That's cool.
Different way of thinking about
it, different way of positioningit.
And so client comes to you andthis is what I've got.
(04:57):
What's your answer?Like, what's your move?
Do you go your usual way and yougo, hey, well, how's this service
been at RBC?Well, yeah, it's been okay.
Okay, did you know that theirprepayment privileges are only 10
%?Did you know that if one of you
passes, God forbid, that the otherperson has to re -qualify for the
mortgage?Like if that's your move, you're
fucked.
Sorry, I hope there's no kids in
(05:17):
the car.
I should have warned you up front.
I think you know by now.
So you are.
You are screwed if that's yourmove.
You might as well just pack up.
You might as well just carry on.
Because at some point, you justwon't have any business.
You'll have no moves, right?And now I'm not getting into
advanced stuff here.
(05:39):
I'm talking, I'm going to give you
like the bare bones stuff.
This is the minimum stuff you need
to understand on this episode,right?
I'm not going to get into thefancy, super advanced stuff.
I'm not.
This is all stuff you should know.
And if you don't, I don't knowwhat you're doing.
Honestly, if someone comes to youlike that, what's your move?
What do you do?This is a general, I'm just
putting that question out theuniverse before I do that.
(06:01):
And we carry on this podcast isbrought to you by Americano.
Oh, it's a hot one.
Go figure.
Uh, so that's the thing.
Like, and, and now it's like, Oh,
my customer service is reallygood.
And I'll share.
And like, this used to work back
then.
And it was, and mine was always,
Hey, I'll build you a customerproposal.
I'll walk you through all thenumbers.
(06:22):
And so when someone comes to me ata four Oh four, and I've got a
four.
Three, four.
Let's just say.
These are the numbers, right?
I'm a 30 basis point difference.
What do I do?
Well, initially, I know a lot ofyou are like, I look for a debt
console.
100%.
That's a move.
You look and you go, hey, do you
have any high interest debt youwant to swap out?
(06:43):
How's cash flow?You're looking to pull money out.
Do anything you turn into maybe arefi.
You're looking to pull out moneyfor any home renovations.
Like all stuff that they couldjust walk into the branch and do.
Okay.
Those aren't advanced strategies.
Those aren't strategies.
They are, it's common sense moves.
And you'll still pick upbreadcrumbs.
You'll still get deals from that.
Those moves are never going away.
And I'm going to package some ofthose moves and what I would do in
(07:05):
this scenario.
But it's like, then after that, so
if there's no debt console, and somine used to be, hey, I'm looking
for a debt console, looking topull money out to like start a
business, help family out, help mykids out, help whatever, buy an
investment product.
If they're not doing that, they're
like, no, no, we're good.
Everything's good.
And we're putting money here andthere.
(07:26):
And I'm like, great.
Okay.
Then I would go.
So you're telling me the number
one thing is, is paying off yourmortgage as fast as possible.
They're like, yes, Ron.
So then that's when I would take
them to what I had at that pointwas mortgagefreein10years .com.
It's not, not around anymore.
If you're checking it out and I
just show them how to buy aninvestment property, one
investment property.
And eventually with a two, 3 % of
(07:48):
your appreciation and mortgage paydown after 10 years, I have enough
money.
And they cash out.
If they sell the property and theypay their capital gains and exit
costs, they could pay off theirprincipal residence.
That was the move.
And it worked very well.
That move right now isn't there,where it's definitely pushing a
big boulder up a hill, up amountain, actually, to convince
people to buy investors.
So take that off the table.
A lot of you weren't even doingthat.
So now what do you do?right?
You're sitting there and you'relike, shit, I got like, and so you
(08:12):
start scrambling, you go and youstart sending out emails to BDMs
and colleagues and you look onlender spotlight and you're
sifting through your inbox,looking for rate specials.
And you're trying to find like aneedle in the haystack.
And then you're going, okay, well,the mortgage is 700 ,000 and I can
get this maybe on exception on afour to none.
What if I buy it down more?And what, and you start going that
(08:32):
and then you're working for 30, 40basis points on a deal.
And, and, and that's the energyout there right now.
Because you'll never have the bestinterest rate.
Nine times out of 10, you won'thave the best interest rate.
You'll find opportunities withininsurable transfers and blah,
blah, blah, and all that stuff.
But for the most part, nine times
out of 10, definitely in theuninsured world, you will never
have the best interest rate.
And this is why a lot of you are
going, I don't like that type ofbusiness anymore.
(08:55):
I want to do B and private.
I want to do stuff where rate
doesn't matter as much.
And that's where you go.
And it's like, okay, so let mepaint this scenario for you, okay?
Trying to remember it from, wedid, I had it all mapped on the
whiteboard and I said, okay,everyone take 20 minutes and go,
come back with a plan for this.
So the clients, they had a
mortgage, let's call theirmortgage, it was $700 ,000
(09:16):
mortgage, or no, it was $500 ,000,I think, whatever, it doesn't
really matter.
Half a million dollar mortgage,
RBC, three year, 404 on the table,okay?
These clients had typical debt.
Let's call it 15K in credit cards,
making 650 a month payment.
I'm going to talk slower here
because we're numbers.
They had a car payment, maybe 30
grand owing on it, like $700 amonth payment at 2 % interest.
(09:37):
They had $50 ,000 sitting in ahigh interest savings account over
here.
They had 150K in GICs and RSPs.
about $11 ,000 a month of netincome.
They had household expenses, about$4 ,500 plus mortgage payment.
And they were putting $500 a monthaway into an investment.
So they had about $2 ,000 a monthof cash flow.
That's what they had.
Now, going through that discovery
call, this is the information I'mfinding out.
This is how the discovery callworks.
(10:00):
I need to figure out some of this.
I'm trying to find opportunities
for me to weave in my value.
Right?
If I'm just like, rate, okay, gotit, got it, yeah, don't know what
to do, go over here, get a betterrate, see you later.
Tell your friends about me.
(10:20):
Or this move, which I know a lot
of you do, which drives me crazy,is, hey, I'll write you an email.
And hey, I did this too, by theway.
I did it too.
So I'm not like... saying, Oh, I'm
(10:43):
above that.
I did this too.
Okay.
I didn't do it a lot, but there
were times I did that.
Definitely.
If it was like really goodreferral partners and stuff like
that.
Um, but I just do it for
everybody, but Hey, I'll write youan email and I'll help you get a
better rate there.
And then you can, uh, and then if
(11:05):
anyone, you know, that needs amortgage comes along, if you refer
me like, that'd be awesome.
And you're trying to like put
goodwill out there, but like,think about that for a second.
This person came to you, youdidn't solve a problem of theirs.
They got a better interest rate ontheir own.
And what are they going to gotell?
What are they going to tell theirbuddy?
Hey, go use Ryan.
(11:26):
Fuck, what did he do?
He did nothing.
I got a better rate already.
And he didn't tell me how to doanything else.
And he wrote me an email.
Cool.
So go to him and he'll write youan email.
So you can get a better rate ofyour bank.
It's crazy when you think aboutit.
It's like, what are you doing?Like, come on.
You got to be better if that'syour move.
then you have to look in themirror at some things.
Okay, so this podcast is broughtto you by Americana.
(11:46):
And I know some of you, you havemoves up your sleeve, you have
strategies, and you do that oncein a while.
Cool, I'm not shitting on you.
I'm just saying in general, like
if that's where your head goes,more that's what I'm saying.
If that's where your head goes, Ican't help, I can't beat that
rate, I'll help you get a betterand hopefully you send me business
(12:09):
or hopefully you introduce me tosomeone.
Like if that's where you're at thesequence of thoughts, We have a
problem, Houston.
We definitely have a problem.
So this scenario, this client,average amount of debt, 22 years
left on the amortization.
Forgot to mention that.
They have some investments.
They have $2 ,000 a month left
over cash flow.
Pretty typical.
They're pushing money into savingsevery month.
They have that rainy day fundsitting there.
What they have.
So it's kind of like, what do you
(12:30):
do there?And they're going through that
call.
Their goal goals is this is, hey,
we'd love to have more improvedcash flow.
Number one.
Number two, we'd love to pay that
mortgage off faster.
And number three, we might
renovate our basement in the nextone to two years.
So we want to be able to do that.
OK, and that could be 50 to 75
grand.
OK, so now what do you do there?
right?So I'm going to go, I'm going to
(12:51):
come back to you with the resultthat I got them and then I'll
break down how I got there.
Okay.
And so this is where most of youlive in this world right now.
Me, I'm an, I analyzed all thisand I do this on the fly on the
discovery call.
Some of you won't have the
(13:14):
expertise or wherewithal to dothat.
So then you would break it downbehind the scenes and come back to
them, but I'm going to come tothem and I'm going to say this,
I'm going to go, Hey, This isawesome.
And going through all these, I'vebeen crunching some numbers.
I have my calculators open andboom, boom, boom.
I have an opportunity.
(13:34):
I think if we partner together,
this is what I could execute foryou.
I'd be able to increase yourcashflow by about $500 a month,
which you said you wanted.
I'd actually, the $500 a month
you're pushing into investment,I'd show you a way we can double
that.
We'll put $1 ,000 a month away
instead of $500, I'm sure.
(13:54):
That kind of intrigues you.
Would you agree?And they're like, oh, wow, that's
cool.
Okay.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I'm going to make sure we have $75,000, $80 ,000 available sitting
there for you to renovate thebasement if you need it.
You're not going to pay for thatmoney until you use it.
Okay.
And they're like, okay, that's
intriguing.
I'm also going to show you a way
with just one move.
Pretty simple.
I'll hold your hand through it.
If we partner together, we can
save you, get you a $1 ,000 taxrefund every year.
(14:15):
Okay.
Maybe more.
But I'm estimating at least $1,000 a year in tax refunds, just
free money from CRA.
Oh, okay.
Wow.
Interesting.
And then the start of the show isI'm going to show you how we can
cut your amortization, yourmortgage in half from 22 years to
11 years.
Nothing in your world is going to
change.
Your quality of life is going to
stay the same.
I'm going to piece that plan
(14:36):
together for you.
How does that sound?
So improve cash flow, double yourinvestments.
$1 ,000 a year tax refund, if notmore, give you the money for the
basement.
Don't pay for it until you use it
and cut your mortgage in half.
Ah, okay.
Now you got me.
I'm interested.
So they came to me with like, andI'm going to tell you right now,
and this is up to you how you wantto weave this in, but my interest
(15:00):
rates, not 404.
I can never get to 404.
Never could.
My interest rates probably going
to be 4, 4, 4 .5, somewhere inthat range, give or take, but I'm
going to accomplish all this overhere.
And this is where I would have hadthe conversation up front, the
interest rate for, okay, and sowhat's your goal here?
Are you looking for the lowestinterest rate?
(15:20):
Are you looking for the lowestpayment?
And you've heard me talk aboutthis in other episodes.
Are you looking to pay off yourmortgage as fast as possible, pay
the least amount of interest?Because they're not all the same.
If they come back and go, oh, Iwant the lowest payment.
Because why do you think theinterest rate is so important?
The interest rate is absolutelyimportant, but why do you, Mr. and
Mrs. Klein, think it's soimportant?
I want to know why you think that.
(15:41):
Oh, lowest payment.
No, it's not.
Because we could throw your
mortgage into a HELOC, interest-only payments, and that's a lower
payment.
Oh, okay, okay.
Usually people think it's becausethey pay the least amount of
interest, which means they get topay the mortgage off fast.
And I'm assuming that's whatyou're connecting the dots on
there.
And they're usually like, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
So it'll be a version of that.
So as soon as I get them tounderstand.
(16:02):
They just want to pay the leastamount of interest to be mortgage
-free faster.
I've shifted it off of rate
because rate won't get therebecause the plan that I just told
you, increase cash flow, doubleyour investments, tax refund every
year, money for your basement, andcut your mortgage in half.
None of that involves the lowestinterest rate.
So you start going, okay, I'm notjust an interest rate guy.
I'm a mortgage planner here.
Right.
So now I'm going to explain to youhow we do that.
(16:23):
And a lot of this is just stuff,you know, we're just framing it
differently.
And other stuff I'm going to
explain to you might be like,shit, I didn't know that.
Okay.
So this podcast brought to you by
America.
Remember, it's how do you paint us
a picture?How do you tell a story through
the numbers?And I'm living in the, I'm going
to do these five things for you ifwe partner together and it costs
(16:44):
you $0.
You're living in that.
Uh, yeah, I'll try to find likethe best rate for you.
Right.
I don't have another move.
And so how do we do this?Well, right out of the gate, I
knew they had 50 K sitting in andthere's a bunch of ways you can do
this.
I'm just, so don't be like, Hey,
Ryan, what if you did this?And you do a hundred percent, a
hundred thousand percent.
But yeah, they have $50 ,000
(17:05):
sitting there in a high interestsavings account, just sitting
there.
Okay.
You could put that, have that asfor the renovation money, blah,
blah, blah.
I'm just going to go, Hey.
You know, either we make aprepayment on your mortgage now
and pay down your $500 ,000mortgage down to $450 ,000 or
(17:27):
after the fact, down your $500,000 mortgage down to $450 ,000 or
after the fact, we can do it.
I'm just going to say up front,
let's do it up front.
Let's do a prepayment on your
mortgage, put it down to $450,000.
When we do the renewal, we'regoing to put that $500 ,000 back
on your mortgage.
We'll get that $50 ,000 back.
So do it.
You'll sit there for a week or
(17:48):
two, and then we're going to pullit off at closing with the new, if
we decide to partner together.
I'm not explaining this to them on
the call, by the way.
I'm not getting into how we're
doing all this.
I want them to send an application
and documents in, and then I'mgoing to build the proposal and
walk them through it on a video.
I'm definitely not explaining this
to them.
(18:09):
Now that we've got that $50 ,000
we prepaid down and we borrowedback out, we're allowed to write
the interest off on that $50 ,000.
We can.
That's where that tax refund comesfrom.
Once again, I'm not explainingthis to the client right now.
This is just you and I talking.
mortgage agent or broker mortgage
agent or broker um so now it'scalled a debt swap it's a
accelerator of the smith maneuverit's one shot deal many of you can
(18:30):
do personally and reap the rewardslong term and so now i get to
write that interest off so i'm notgoing to get into how we structure
it and how we just for simplicitypurposes their mortgage is down to
450 now we're going to put a 500000 mortgage we're actually going
to increase that because we'regoing to do a deck and solve for
cash flow but So they get that $50,000.
We'll replenish the high interestsavings account now when it comes
tax time.
Let's just say they're paying 5 %
interest, for easy math, on thatmoney, on the mortgage.
(18:50):
Mortgage amount is 5%, let's justsay.
That's $2 ,500.
$2 ,500 a year of interest they're
paying.
So they get to write that off.
And assuming they're at a 40 % taxbracket, it might be higher.
Let's just say 40%.
40 % of the $2 ,500 is $1 ,000.
they get a $1 ,000 refund, right?If they prepaid their taxes and
whatnot.
So $1 ,000 refund, that's what we
did.
Just move the money around, shift
(19:10):
it, put it back where it was.
They can still start earning the
money over there.
That's called the debt swap.
It's like, it's a move that mostof your clients can make and it
would set you apart.
Now they can either keep that $1
,000 as cashflow every year orthey can put it against the
mortgage.
Ah, but we're not even going to
(19:31):
get to that.
That's like bonus stuff.
Okay, so that's one.
Then we're going to do a typical
debt or a debt consult becausethey told me cashflow.
So I'm going to come back.
And just because the interest rate
on that car, I told you it was 2 %and the interest rate on the
mortgage you're going to give themis four and a half.
A lot of you are telling, you tellthe story already.
(19:52):
You're like, I wouldn't do that.
So I'm not going to present it.
Like, what are you doing?Present the story to the client.
Hey, I want to free up cashflow.
This, I came up with this.
And so we're going to improve yourcashflow by X. We're going to roll
that in.
I know it's only at 2%, but you
told me cash flow was important toyou.
(20:13):
So this is what we're going to do.
So in this scenario we ran, we
put, let's just call it a 550mortgage on.
We paid out the car, the creditcard, and the car, car, the credit
card.
And we also paid out, we're
pulling 50K back out because themortgage is only 450.
We're pulling 50K back out toreplenish the investment.
Okay, so there.
So far, now with that debt
(20:34):
console, I've increased their cashflow by $1 ,000 a month.
I'm taking half of that, and I'mgoing to double their investment.
They're already putting $500 amonth away.
I'm presenting a story.
Hey, we're going to double your
investments to $1 ,000 now.
I bet your financial advisor would
be happy, and I bet you'd be happyknowing you're putting money away.
And I'm going to increase, so I'mcutting in half.
How you present that up to you.
This is just how I did it because
(20:56):
it sounds really good.
When I go $500 a month cash flow,
double your investments, $1 ,000tax refund.
I've already accomplished thosethree things.
Next, we're going to set theglobal limit higher because there
was room in the loan to value.
And in this scenario, we were able
to give them about an $85 ,000home equity line with no balance
on it, which they could use.
For the basement, if they ever
used, did build it.
If not, it's not costing them a
dollar, right?That's pretty standard.
So now I've accomplished thatbecause they told me that was
(21:18):
something that they were talkingabout.
This podcast is brought to you byAmerican.
And then the last move is thatextra $2 ,500 a month in cash flow
now that they have just goes intothe prepayment strategy, which you
can do at any bank.
I'm going to use Manulife for this
example because it is fullyautomated and it's super easy to
do.
Very user friendly in the back
(21:39):
end.
And I am going to structure that
in there, which then takes themortgage from 22 to 11.
We did the math on the calculatorup there.
Here you go.
So that's what I'm bringing to the
table.
Right.
And I'll get into maybe we'll talka little bit about the man one and
how I'd structure that andwhatnot, because some of you are
(22:01):
who aren't up to speed.
Hey, have any of you noticed
there's a lot of people talkingabout the man one, the power of
the pitch?I wonder why.
I wonder why.
This is a movement, kids.
This is a movement to get youthinking differently about being a
broker.
And the argument I get is it's too
risky.
No, it's because a lot of you are
just idiots in how you set it up.
(22:22):
You're setting it up risky.
You've been taught to set it uprisky, right?
There's no way in hell I wouldgive someone with a $2 ,000 a
month cash flow.
that I would give them a half a
million dollar, put their wholemortgage in a HELOC.
A lot of you are doing that.
You're putting 550 ,000 into the
HELOC or 350 ,000 in the HELOC.
I don't understand why you're
(22:43):
doing that.
It doesn't make sense.
You don't put that much in.
You have to figure out, you just
put a small amount in, right?You put a small amount in the
HELOC.
So you carve out for the HELOCs.
For this example, we carved out 50,000.
So we gave them about $140 ,000HELOC, 50 advanced.
The other 90, let's call it, wasfor the basement if they needed it
sitting there.
And then the rest of the funds
(23:04):
went into sub -accounts, re-advanceable, non -re
-advanceable, depending on the 65% threshold.
Won't get into breaking that down.
That's not what this calls about.
But that's what we did.
And now that $2 ,500 can just be
applied against the balance on theHELOC.
And now when it gets paid downeventually, in probably three
years, give or take, two to threeyears.
We just would put a new balanceback on the HELOC.
So the only difference we've giventhese people is we've given them
(23:26):
an interest -only payment on $50,000 versus locking it all up into
an AM mortgage.
But if we lock it all up into an
AM mortgage, they don't have anyupside.
They're in a 22 -year AM.
If we set it up this way, and
maybe their payments are about$30, $40 different, that's the
additional cash flow they getbecause it's in a HELOC.
(23:47):
Whereas a lot of you havestructured it so that all the
money, all the mortgage goes inthe HELOC and they're sitting here
with like four grand a month leftover going, holy crap, we're
ballers now.
Let's go party.
That's risky.
That's wrong.
And so this has zero risk to it.
Like literally zero risk.
We're giving them interest onlypayments on 50K, right?
With a plan in place.
(24:07):
And I'm going to monitor with them
and set it up correct and checkin.
I make sure the plan's working.
It's a simple plan.
It's all automated.
That's why we're going to man one.
So that's what I'm bringing to thetable.
I'm bringing to the table.
So if that client is talking to
you and they have that situationand then they talk to me and I
(24:30):
don't broker, by the way.
So when I say that, I'm just
talking out loud like thatscenario, but I don't broker
anymore.
Happened in a while.
Sometimes makes me want to go backin because I'm like, oh my God,
I'd crush it.
I would absolutely destroy it.
I know I would.
But I'm on a different journey.
I will not broker again.
I'm on a different path.
I'm teaching people this, right?How to think this way.
(24:50):
And that's where I get leverage.
Now I get leverage because I have
a bunch of agents who willhopefully go out and do all this.
And they are.
So this is the thinking.
It's like now that person, okay,now I know why I'm going to go
over here.
You're right.
And this is with a 4 .4 interestrate, right?
A blended rate between 4 .34 andthe 50K and the HELOC.
Maybe it works out to 4 .4.
(25:10):
four, four, four, two, whatever,
somewhere in there.
But that's like, I've changed the
game.
I've changed the conversation.
We're not talking interest rateanymore.
I'm addressing their problems andtheir pain points.
This podcast brought to you byAmerican.
So, right.
And that's a big thing that you
need to figure out your only goal.
Not your only goal.
One of your main goals on thatdiscovery call outside, you want
(25:33):
to make sure they're not anasshole.
You want to make sure they're notdisrespectful.
You want to make sure they havegood credit or whatever your
avatar is.
You want to make sure they have a
job.
You want to make sure they have
equity in their home.
Like you want to make sure all
that stuff.
But then on top of that, I need to
(25:53):
figure out their pain.
And if they're coming to me with
interest rate and that's it, Ihaven't asked the right questions
then.
Right.
I haven't asked the rightquestions.
I need to figure out the pain.
Because then that's where I can
put the plan together to solve thepain, solve the problem.
So for them, I knew they neededcash flow.
And I knew they wanted to pay themortgage off faster.
And then third, it was just moneyfor a basement.
(26:16):
What if money for the basement?A lot of people just be like,
yeah, just use your savings.
No, no, no. Your tax refund goes
away.
There's a different way to do it.
And maybe they do that as well.
I don't know.
There's eight different ways wecan do this through move and
shake.
So I wanted to point this out.
This is a training exercise wedid.
We do these every Thursday on theteam.
It's all man one related.
We put scenarios up there and we
(26:37):
go, how can we package this,create a story and present it from
this?And I'll tell you right now, the
star of the show, and this is abig thing a lot of you, I think
you're missing the mark on whenyou're seeing people out there
talking about the man one.
The man one is not the star of the
(26:59):
show.
You're the freaking star of the
show.
That scenario I just created, that
was me.
Just so happens, the tool we're
going to use is going to be theman one.
The man one's like number two orthree down the list here.
It's me.
I'm the star of the show.
And a lot of you are trying tohide behind these products,
whatever they are.
In all reality, you're that.
And the way you present it, theway you make the people feel, the
way you uncover problems theydidn't know they had.
(27:19):
A way that you just...
Keep the conversation focused on
the pain points they have.
And then create a situation where
you can solve them.
What would it look like?
Like, I can do this for you.
Increase cash flow, tax refund,
double your investments, cut yourmortgage in half, give you money
for the bill.
Like, that's a completely
different story, right?Ah, but that's because I'm the
(27:43):
star.
I'm the star of the show.
And this is just another tool Ihave, is to do this.
Right?So I want to put that out there.
Hopefully that means something toyou.
Hopefully you learned somethingthere.
Hopefully you are looking in themirror and going, I need to up my
game.
And whatever that means for you,
because I'm here to tell you, youdo.
You absolutely do.
There are seasoned pros out there
(28:03):
where their businesses areigniting on fire.
They're just like, because theyhaven't upped their game.
They got lazy.
And they did things the old way.
And they're like, hey, we'rebuddies.
We're friends.
We know the same people.
Yeah, but 30 basis points, dude.
Over five years.
It's a lot of money.
Like, I like you, but not that
much.
Right?
The old way of brokerage is outthe window.
There's snippets of it.
They can still win.
But five years from now, threeyears from now, they'll have
(28:23):
nothing.
So you need to make a shift
somewhere.
So hopefully this helps you with
that shift.
That's it, kids.
Enjoy your weekend.
Peace out.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com