April 15, 2025 • 39 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
Episode 96: Matt and Taylor are joined by Troy Froese. Troy is the Co-Owner of Froese & Co. Building and Design Inc. from Kelowna, BC, a full-service residential construction company operating throughout the Okanagan. With extensive experience delivering high-end custom homes and complex renovations, Troy brings a collaborative, detail-driven approach to every project. Known for their commitment to craftsmanship and strong client relationships, Froese & Co. manages their projects from concept to completion—offering a seamless, transparent, and quality-focused construction experience.
Troy is here to discuss: → The best things to do when building or renovating a home, the benefits of a cost-plus pricing model, and having the right team in place. → The worst things to do when building or renovating a home, underestimating costs or timelines, and not planning for future maintenance or upgrades. → Investing in quality, and the possible ramifications of tariffs on building materials.
Froese & Co. Website: www.froeseandco.com
Froese & Co. Instagram: @froeseandco
Troy Froese's Email: troy@froeseandco.com
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CONNECT WITH MATT
Matt Glen's Website: www.mattglen.ca
Matt Glen's Email: matt.glen@century21.ca
Matt Glen's Instagram: @mattglenrealestate
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Taylor Atkinson's Instagram: @VentureMortgages
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the Colonial RealEstate Podcast.
(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Estate Podcast.
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
And I'm your real estate agenthost, Matt Glenn.
What's happening, Taylor?What's up?
What's down?Yeah, good question.
Do you have any stocks right now?If you do, you probably had a
heart attack for about two daysand now you're fine.
Everything's fine.
Well, you get a little surge.
We're recording this.
(00:21):
What day is this?
Wednesday the 9th.
at 1 .30 in the afternoon.
So this morning, there was a hugebump because of another tariff
announcement, which I don't thinkaffected Canada.
I think we still have all the sametariffs.
But markets just go crazy.
So is now a time to sell when it's
on a bit of a high?Who knows what is going on here?
(00:43):
Definitely don't listen to us ifyou have stocks that buy and sell.
don't listen to us if you havestocks that buy and sell.
But I guess let's rewind thisabout a week.
Right.
A week ago, Trump basically
imposed tariffs globally on aglobal scale to an absolute ton of
countries.
And it was exposed, I guess, the
way he was calculating the tariffswere not correct.
Right.
It was just basically based on
trade deficit and then used amultiplier and used like the
(01:03):
higher of the two.
So some countries were getting
absolutely hammered.
Vietnam, I think, was like a 49
percent tariff, which is insane.
So Shoe Dog, Phil Knight.
nike book whoever hasn't read ityou should read it it's a great
book but it outlined in that booka couple times that they had to
like move countries and he waslike over in japan and then had to
(01:24):
like move it into like southeastasia and like because of these
type of international agreementsbut i mean nike gets a ton of
their materials and assembly fromvietnam so like nike's stock just
absolutely plummeted, right?Like a lot of other stocks, but
because of this, because of thoseimposed tariffs.
And then today, you know, Trumphas, I guess, repositioned some of
(01:44):
those tariffs and is coming tosome other agreements.
So it's just like the volatilityis impossible to keep up with in
this market.
The goal is to onshore jobs to the
US, is to onshore jobs to the US,but like, who's going to spend
hundreds of millions, if notbillions of dollars on a factory
when things change every singleday?
Not to mention like you're kind ofselecting for like not the
(02:04):
greatest jobs to come back.
I think a lot of people are kind
of realizing like globalization isprobably not entirely the worst
thing, you know, in all this.
I think in the long term, I think
in the long term, if it was like areally subtle plan that was like,
you know, spanned over 50 years tobring jobs back to America.
It's not like the worst strategy,but to do it like this in just one
(02:26):
foul swoop is insanity.
As of today, of today, he
increased tariffs to China to125%.
You just got to think of abusiness like Amazon or Walmart.
I don't know what it is, but it'sgot to be like at least 75 % of
everything in both of thosebusinesses comes from China.
That is a massive amount.
Everything's doubled one and a
(02:47):
half times or one and a quartertimes is expensive.
Well, yeah.
I mean, it does a lot of things,
right?It increases the cost of those
goods, but then it also hurts theeconomy, GDP.
People aren't going to be...
spending as much money.
So, you know, jobs are going to beat a loss.
It's just going to compound.
(03:08):
But one of the interesting posts I
saw, this was a couple of daysago, obviously, it's probably back
up to normal now, but Elon Musklost like $130 billion.
whatever it was, it was like athird of his net worth, you know,
a billion.
Yeah.
Over the span of like a couple ofdays.
And he was, you know, one ofTrump's biggest supporters.
So it's like, those guys can't besuper happy about this either.
Can they?Who knows?
(03:30):
Maybe like he sold and then boughtback in the day before.
Well, I was trying to think likelast night, was trying to think
like last night, I'm like, who iswinning?
It just seems like there isn'tanybody besides like people like
taking like political.
points that is actually happy
about this.
It just seems like everyone's mad
about it.
It just feels like a lose -lose.
Is there someone making a lot ofmoney?
I guess if you're betting onmarket fluctuations, probably make
some money right now, but justcrazy.
(03:51):
Then how it affects us, is thereal estate market going to come
roaring back when all thesetariffs are eventually... pulled
off?Or is the damage done?
Is it slow?Is the uncertainty just kill it?
How does it affect selling housesin Kelowna?
Yeah, I think there's a couple ofthings there.
I don't even think the uncertaintyanymore.
People are like, whatever, they'reprobably over it.
But they're not so worried aboutthe uncertainty of the market.
(04:13):
They're probably just uncertainabout their jobs.
The economy is going to reallysuffer on this.
But to talk about interest rates.
So the bond market's been
incredibly volatile because ofthis.
Yes.
But, you know, we saw a little bit
of a dip on some fixed rates andthen back up.
They're moving, but they'resomewhat stagnant just because no
lender is going to change theirrate based on a Trump announcement
(04:34):
that lasts for a day.
Like you just can't do business
that way.
What we are seeing, though, are
variable rate discounts areshrinking.
So, you know, a couple of monthsago, like on an insured mortgage.
let's just say like prime minus 1.15.
And then last month was primeminus one, and now it's prime
minus 0 .85.
So that discount that clients were
getting is starting to shrink,which is unfortunate, but it's
(04:54):
what lenders do on these type oftimes that are, I guess, more risk
on their money, right?Because they're expecting Bank of
Canada is going to lower ratestoo, but it's just overly
volatile.
So they got to protect the risk a
little bit and have that margin.
So if you had a variable rate, a
few months ago.
Awesome.
You have that discount.
Bank of Canada makes cuts.
(05:16):
You're in a great position.
If you were going to go variable
in the next couple of months,yeah, you might have to start to
reanalyze now just because of thediscount starting to shrink.
So, you know, like just in mybusiness, I think uncertainty is
kind of ruling the day right now.
I don't anymore.
I have one still, but I had threelistings all had accepted offers
subject to sale, which is likekind of funny.
(05:37):
It feels like people want to move,but there's nobody like bookending
the transactions, right?Like the first time home buyers,
whoever it is, is buying thehouse.
Everyone has a house to sell.
And then the development
properties I have, I've had like alot of people, I think four now
reach out wanting to either theseller to finance the sale or like
remain a partner in the project.
So it's just like people are just
looking like almost morecreatively, right?
(05:58):
Like, yeah, it's not as black andwhite.
It's kind of funny.
Interesting.
I mean, I think this has kind ofbeen our narrative for the last
little while is single familyhomes are just going to become
scarce.
Oh, yeah.
They're going to increase in valuejust purely because no one can
afford to build them right now.
And, you know, a lot of that comes
back to our own government with,you know, being able to subdivide
(06:20):
and just like the cost of land andinfrastructure for that land.
But now with tariffs, the cost tobuild is a huge unknown.
So what builder is going to go outand do a 50 lot subdivision when
their margins 12%, their 12 %profit could now be a 12 % loss.
That 12 % profit is literally atweet away from not existing.
(06:42):
Totally.
So like if you're a developer, why
would you even bother at thispoint?
You know, if you're a homeownerthat wants to build or like, you
know, somebody that wants to havesome land and build their dream
house, it's like, is it going tobe 1 .4 million or 1 .8 million to
build?Like you just don't know.
That's too much of a gamble.
So I don't think single family
houses are really going to get thetraction.
(07:03):
And our guest today, Troy Froese,he's a home builder.
They do it.
All in design GC help with a lot
of different type of projects.
Really good resource.
Great guy to reach out to if youhave anything on the go right now.
Anywhere from just, you know,medium sized renovation to a new
build.
(07:23):
But those are the guys that are
going to be, you know, pencilingthis stuff in as soon as possible.
But I guess without any realinformation, like what do you do?
Everyone's just kind of astandstill.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was great talking to Troy,though.
Knowledgeable guy doing ithimself.
He brought a lot to the table.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he kind of touches on the best
things and the worst things youcan do when doing a renovation or
(07:44):
a new build.
Yeah.
Reach out to him if you have anyquestions and yeah, enjoy the show
guys.
And this episode, like every other
episode is sponsored by century 21assurance realty, best brokerage
in town, best brokerage in theOkanagan.
We're growing, growing in Kelowna,burning Kamloops, Kootenays.
We're here.
So if you're an agent looking for
a new place to land or a buyer orseller looking for an agent, give
us a shout.
Love to talk to you.
(08:06):
Okay.
Welcome to the Colonial Real
Estate Podcast.
Troy, how's it going?
Good.
Good.
How are you?Good.
Thanks.
We like to start our show with
just what does a perfect Fridaylook like other than being in my
house doing a renovation?Yeah.
So is this a lunch hour?lunch hour?
Yeah.
Am I getting built for this?
Am I getting built for this?Yeah.
Of course it's fillable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Troy and his crew, they are
(08:26):
helping out with the renovation onthe other side of the house.
So can speak highly of them.
Let's dive into the show and like,
yeah, what's your Friday looklike?
Yeah, usually try to be up early.
Got a young one.
So hit and miss depending on thenight before.
But usually try to get up beforeher and have a bit of time to get
(08:48):
some emails and critical stuff outof the way first thing.
And then I usually try to free mymorning up to spend time with her
and my wife.
Take it a little bit slower till
about probably about 9, 10 andthen head out to, you know.
check on all of our sites and, andthat type of thing.
So yeah, if it's Friday, thenusually back to the office, try to
(09:08):
wrap some things up, kind of tieup the loose ends before the
weekend.
And then in an ideal world, that's
wrapping up early, but as it goesinto the end of Friday, really
just wind down, spend some timewith the family, you know, maybe
try to do a barbecue or somethinglike that.
And yeah, just kind of set up forthe weekend.
Sweet.
The whole approach of the show is
kind of like expectations ofclients, how you communicate, how
do you kind of set people up forsuccess in the initial stages,
right?Because I feel like a lot of
(09:29):
people in Kelowna want to dorenovations, additions, basement
suites, they want to add value totheir home.
But you know, where do you start?So you kind of came up with the
idea of, you know, top five bestthings and five worst things.
So yeah, maybe if we want to gothrough that.
Yeah, there's a lot that goes intoit.
There's a lot of behind the scenesthat's kind of important to think
about when you're getting started.
(09:49):
I think getting a good team in
place, that's really critical.
This is my perspective.
But when you start to work with aclient, you're setting that
relationship up and it's not, youknow, just two weeks.
That's a working relationship.
And you want to make sure that
everybody aligns when it comes toexpectations, as well as even, you
know, kind of down to personalityand how you work together that
way.
Definitely.
Yeah.
And I will say like your
communication has been awesome.
(10:10):
You definitely like have.
composure that's just nice like itseems like you're in control and
there's no stresses so it makes iteasier for the client but uh yeah
i know i know shit hits the fanonce in a while and yeah yeah you
handle it well so obviously that'shaving your your team in place
yeah next you were talking aboutis set up like a realistic budget
with a contingency so how doespricing look obviously um like
cost plus is part of the programyeah so that's typically how we
(10:31):
would run most of our projectswould be from a cost plus so
that's typically how we would runmost of our projects would be from
a cost plus model, I feel thatthat's often kind of the best
value for the client.
You know, we could do a fixed
price, but you know, in that, thenmaybe things are padded to make
sure that, you know, some of thoseunexpected are after whether or
not they, you know, end up showingup.
(10:52):
So I find that if you approach itfrom a cost plus, then the client
ends up getting what they want.
They get the value for the time
and energy that's been put intothe project.
Oftentimes I hear, you know, ifsomebody's on a fixed price, then
some people can be.
a little bit more quick to try to
cut a corner or that sort of thingto, you know, increase the profit
margin, which that's not somethingthat we like to stand by.
(11:14):
Yeah.
We like to be transparent and make
sure that, you know, the client isgetting the, like I said, best
value for what they're paying for.
Yeah.
And I guess, I mean, we're talkingabout like an overall approach,
but like renovations compared tonew builds.
Obviously, renovations got to bepretty tough to quote because you
don't know what you're going toget when you open up the walls.
Do you have a preference on likewhat you like to work on?
We do a little bit of both.
do a little bit of both.
I probably enjoy new constructiona little bit more.
(11:35):
There are kind of less of thosekind of the unexpected.
That being said, as soon as youstart into the excavation, there's
100 things that you could run uponthat, you know.
lead to other challengesthroughout the build.
So pick your challenges and gofrom there.
But renovations are always fun,especially if they're a little bit
more tricky.
I like a good problem to solve.
If somebody's looking to renovatetheir house or do a new build,
(11:55):
should you be the first call theymake?
Yeah, between an architect, adesigner and your contractor,
those should be the first people.
And it would be good to have them
all work kind of in sync.
There's a lot of things that
everybody brings to the table andit can help one, make a really
good plan moving forward, but itcan also help with the planning
stages in terms.
of, you know, if your designer and
your contractor are workingtogether, they can look at ways to
(12:16):
make things more cost effective.
There can be things that, you
know, as a contractor, we'll lookat and go, you know, if we just
tweak the design a little bit thisway, it's going to make, you know,
our plumbing or electrical, youknow, that much easier.
And so it can make for a betteroverall product at the end and
eliminate some of those, you know,unexpected or, you know, more
expensive details that could comeup in a project.
I guess that kind of segues intothe next topic for you is
(12:37):
investing quality.
guess that kind of segues into the
next topic for you is investingquality.
where it matters.
So can you give us some examples
of that?Yeah, there's lots of different
products out there.
The most expensive isn't
necessarily the best.
Usually where I would start with
that is the areas that are good toreally invest in are going to be,
you know, your touch point areas.
So, you know, if it's a new build,
I would say, you know, those areaswhere, you know, you walk into the
(12:59):
home, kind of what are thesurfaces that you touch?
So that could even be, you know,stuff like your door handles, your
front door, that's a, that's goingto be a big statement piece.
You know, you walk into yourkitchen, that's, you know.
the heart of the home, aseverybody says.
So, you know, investing the moneyin those places, the primary
bathroom, bedroom wing, I thinkthat's another really good spot to
kind of spend some money.
And then just looking at really
careful selections.
I think bringing a designer into
(13:19):
the picture can have a big impacton that because a good design with
good quality products can reallypull a project together and make
or break it.
And it comes down to client
preference and what they value.
I've had some clients where, you
know, they really want the best,you know, most expensive, some
really beautiful items.
But those can be challenging when
it comes to, you know, thinkingabout maintenance down the road.
You know, what happens when, youknow, you've got a wall mounted
(13:40):
faucet behind a very expensivepiece of, you know, quartz or
something like that, that, youknow, eventually will need to be
serviced and potentially replaced.
So looking at kind of the long
term value of that and some peoplevalue, you know, maintenance free
and ease of replacement and thatsort of thing.
Whereas, you know, other peoplevalue kind of the aesthetic and
finish more.
Yeah.
The design part is, at least forme, I feel so overlooked, but I
thank God I have Emily that does alot of the decision making on
(14:00):
that.
Do you inherently just become like
a bit of a mediator?Also like a third opinion of like,
do you like green or do you likeyellow?
Like what should we use for paint?And you're kind of stuck in
between like.
All the time.
Yeah.
Not in this house, but.
No, no, no. No, no, no. You threwit in the towel a long time ago.
Yeah.
I'm completely hands off.
Yeah.
I have to.
(14:20):
Just not a battle I'm willing tofight.
Well, and my choices are.
off.
Yeah.
and my choices are.
Exactly.
Also, Exactly.
Also, we're all better off.
Yeah.
Totally.
But I guess, yeah.
Like, is there a certain pointwhere you just say like, you know,
hey, you guys should get adesigner.
Here's who we like to work with.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Like, and again, that's somethingthat I would usually chat with our
(14:41):
clients right from the get go.
That would be one of the first
things that we would discuss is,you know, is there room in the
budget for a designer?And one of the things that I'll
say even with that is, you know, agood designer can save you more
than their fees throughout thecourse of a project when it comes
to whether it be, you know, delaysin material selections, that type
(15:01):
of thing.
So having all those details really
well planned out ahead of time candefinitely help streamline that
and save you in the long run.
So that's something that at the
beginning of a project, I usuallydo discuss that with a client and
go, is that something you're opento?
I mean, some projects, they justdon't have the budget.
And, you know, if it's smallenough or, you know,
straightforward enough, someclients, you know, they know
exactly what they want and there'sjust no need for the selection
(15:24):
portion.
And when it comes down to, you
know, your cabinetry and millworkand stuff like that, that's
something I think it's always goodto have a designer's image.
put on.
But yeah.
Well, even just staying up withtrends and options, it's a pretty
fast -paced industry when you lookat styles.
It's hard to keep up.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Matt, so talking about materials
and stuff, have you felt theimpact of tariffs at all yet on
this?Are people choosing stuff made in
(15:45):
Italy more than something made inMichigan?
Haven't seen that too much.
I do anticipate that that will be
something that comes down quitefairly soon.
A lot of building products.
are manufactured in the States.
And so I do anticipate, you know,some definite cost increases
there.
Are we just going to have all of a
sudden European style all overCanada?
we just going to have all of asudden European style all over
Canada?Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
You know what?
You never know.
(16:06):
But I was trying to price
something out last week, aluminumrailing product.
The supplier actually came back tome and said, listen, we'd love to
get your pricing on this, but wedon't know.
So we'll be in touch in a weekfrom now when we have a little bit
better idea of what's going on.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's going to be a toughone.
Obviously, we're very fresh intothis little game we're playing
right now.
Yeah.
But I think we're going to see alot of weird things coming up that
(16:27):
you don't really realize.
Like things you just take for
granted.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
Oh, for sure.
That are just going to all of asudden be obsolete.
They're just going to pivot.
going to pivot.
Yeah.
Challenges with getting products
and the price, I think.
Yeah.
I mean, I have seen that a littlebit here and there on a few
different products where it's likewhat I could buy it for three
(16:48):
months ago is drasticallydifferent than it is today.
It's funny because it's actuallymore than 25 % because you think
like the price was a price becausethey could just throw it on truck
B that was coming to Canada.
funny because it's actually more
than 25 % because you think likethe price was a price because they
could just throw it on truck Bthat was coming to Canada.
(17:08):
But now those trucks aren't comingto Canada.
So now we get to pay for thattruck to ship that one thing and
then pay the 25%.
So it's like some products are
going to be way more than 25 %more.
Right.
So. I mean, I'm just thinking like
on a smaller scale with homeownersthat are like just breaking ground
and they have their budget.
Let's say even half of the
material goes up by 25%.
That's going to blow their budget
out of the water.
And then if you've got a larger
(17:30):
scale, like a developer that's,you know, just pouring foundation
on like a 50 unit place, even iflike, you know.
10 % of those materials arecoming.
How do you make it feasible?Yeah, it's definitely a big
concern that I've had looking outat the future of our housing
market and economy and stuff likethat in general.
On a million dollar bill, 25 % isa lot of money.
Not everybody has that in theirbudget to spend in addition to.
I guess this is how things evolvethough, guess this is how things
(17:50):
evolve though, right?If you look at the positive side,
it was like something like thiscomes out, people are going to
find a different material orresource.
Or just buy the steel straightfrom Hamilton.
You almost need these highpressure situations that backs up
against the wall and then you finda better alternative solution.
We even felt that in COVID.
We started to have to look at
alternative solutions, getcreative with the products we were
using and that sort of thing.
It was actually really interesting
because sometimes there werebetter quality products out there
that became the more costeffective options.
And so you were ending up with abetter overall.
build obviously we're stillspending more but at the end of
the day the cost between yourtraditional build versus you know
(18:12):
going something a little bitdifferent and getting creative
ended up being the better way togo you know like obviously this is
not where we thought thisconversation was going to go but
just like never is but there seemslike amazing opportunities for
some canadian manufacturers andproducers to like fill these gaps
because like someone just breakingground like if you're doing 100
units you need to buy what like400 faucets right so like times
that over this is not where wethought this conversation was
(18:35):
going to go but like never is butlike seems like amazing
opportunities for some canadianmanufacturers and producers to
like fill these gaps because likesomeone just breaking ground like
if you're doing 100 units you needto buy what like 400 faucets right
so like times that over everywherelike man that's a huge uh yeah
opportunity if you want to takeadvantage of it all right put this
on pause we're gonna go start amanufacturing company you're in my
mind yeah the next topic was thinkabout function and flow so again
(18:56):
that probably comes back to likethe design you know working with
an architect yeah working with thearchitect and really kind of
asking the questions like you knowhow am i going to use the space on
a daily basis so company companyyou're in my mind yeah next topic
was think about function and flowso again that probably comes back
to like the design you knowworking with an architect working
(19:19):
with the architect and really kindof asking the questions like you
know how am i going to use thespace on a daily basis But how is
it going to be used, you know,two, three years down the road?
Are you a growing family?Are there going to be more kids?
Is there a need for a home officeat some point?
Recently had a client we helpedwith in addition.
And that was one of the thingsthey were looking to use it for,
(19:41):
you know, their home business.
And they needed to create some
extra space that way.
And so that was kind of one of the
things we discussed is, you know,well, we can size things and set
it up so that it's, you know,very.
you know, strictly business based,or we can, you know, make
allowances for certain things sothat down the road, it's, you
know, an easy conversion to asecondary suite, or, you know,
it's just additional, you know,it's a nice flow to, you know, two
or three additional bedrooms and abathroom to your home.
So it adds that square footage andvalue for you down the road when,
you know, should you decide tosell or, you know, you're not,
you're not using it in that wayanymore.
(20:03):
So I think that's something that'sreally important.
And a lot of people do overlookthat is they're like, you know, we
want to do this and this is whatit's for, but.
thinking about that future use,how are some of the ways that you
might want to use it in the futureand what can you do to kind of
make so that it's, you know,workable for those items as well.
(20:23):
And also looking at, you know,potential resale.
Yeah.
Well, I was going to say that
that's where you'd tag in somebodylike Matt or real estate agent to
do a CMA and say like, Hey,comparables in this area, if we
added this extra bathroom, yeah,it's going to cost X for the
client, but they are looking atmoving in five years.
Would that be a worthwhileinvestment?
That's something good to look at.
Yeah, definitely.
Then your last one for best thingsto do would be plan for future
maintenance and upgrades.
I think that's a big one as well.
You don't know.
the cost of things until like
things start to break down on you.
Use an example of, you know, the
type of decking that you use.
You can go with better quality
product that carries a warrantythat's, you know, less prone to
break down from UV and weather andstuff like that.
Or you can, you know, spend a lotless and just do, you know.
(20:45):
Something with wood, that type ofthing.
But as we live in the Okanagan andit gets hotter and hotter every
year, it seems wood does not holdup very well.
And so when you look at kind ofover the next 10 years, what's
your maintenance cost on thisproduct versus spending a little
bit more up front, but havingsomething that's going to weather
a lot better and has thosewarranties.
Those are always good things tokind of consider and look at and
kind of weigh out.
Yeah, I love it.
(21:06):
I see that you have heateddriveways here.
What can you do to prepare forthat?
That's a great question.
I'm like, whoa.
Yeah.
Getting sick of shoveling?
No, I actually, I love shoveling.
But we only had to shovel like
once or twice this year.
Yeah, I think I only shoveled once
this year.
I could have used at least...
10 times that many.
Yeah, no, for sure.
With that one in particular, whenyou're going through your rough in
stage, it would be applicable toboth renovation and new
construction, but kind of makingthose allowances, you know, things
(21:29):
you have to consider there is, isthere a power requirement for, you
know, sensors and stuff like that?How are you going to get that
stuff back into the home once it'scompleted?
So having the room, you know, ifyou need to put in a boiler,
running water lines and stuff likethat.
So if those are things as you'rekind of working through that
design phase, we're like.
(21:49):
You know, maybe it's not in the
budget right now, but, you know,down the road, we'd like to put in
a gate or, you know, we'd like to,you know, do a heated floor.
We want to throw in a hot tub or apool in the backyard.
Looking at, you know, the thingsthat you can do during
construction to get things, youknow, close to those areas so that
it's roughed in so that, you know,down the road, you're not having
(22:10):
to tear your house apart or digup, you know, your entire yard and
driveway just to make allowancesand install those items that can
save you immense.
Yeah, it's kind of funny thinking
about houses from like 30 yearsago.
It seems like a long time ago, butnot a lot has evolved in the use
of a home.
But in terms of like when you look
at renovating a 30 -year -oldhome, why did they ever do this?
Like why would a kitchen beenclosed?
(22:31):
Like it seems like the trendschange.
So I'm curious now, you know, inlike 30 years, we're going to look
back on this house and be like,why is this kitchen open?
Oh my God.
Close the door.
kitchen open?Oh my God.
Close the door.
He wants to see this.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's get into the juicy part.
So five worst things you can dowith a renovation or build.
(22:51):
First one you have listed,underestimating costs and
timelines.
I mean.
Isn't this just a given?Like, doesn't everyone
underestimate?Yeah.
Okay.
Underestimate.
So you've got to think you can doa kitchen for 5 ,000.
Bathroom for 2 ,000.
Yeah, exactly.
Heat and dry away for what?4 ,500?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And an afternoon.
And an afternoon.
Yeah.
So like, that's got to be a tough
conversation to have.
It can be.
There's often a lot of stickershock because there's a lot of
(23:11):
items that, you know, go intodoing, you know.
a renovation or a new build that alot of people you know they're
just not aware of let's say you'redoing a renovation and you start
you know tearing out walls andstuff like that you know maybe you
end up having to remove drywall onthe ceiling to you know rework
your electrical.
Now you're starting to trigger
some code requirements.
And that's just one kind of small
example where when you start totouch stuff, pull it apart.
Well, now you have to actuallybring it up to today's code.
(23:33):
And there can be a lot that goesinto kind of making those upgrades
just to get you back to, you know,let's say drywall stage where you
can actually put your kitchen backtogether.
So lots of items like that.
What do you kind of see difference
in renovation costs and new buildcosts?
If somebody is looking to prettymuch, you know, got a house, rip
down the drywall to the studs, isit going to be effectively the
same cost just because the laborto get the demo done?
(23:53):
It depends on the bones of thehouse.
I would say that there's somehouses out there that.
You're better off to just bulldozeit by the time you bring
everything up to today's code and,you know, bring it back to what
you want.
The total dollar figure will
definitely be less than, you know,building new.
But if you look at the value addto your property over time, you
can look at it's a brand newhouse.
It's got the warranty.
It's got, you know, new finishes.
You're not going to be looking atneeding a new roof anytime soon.
(24:14):
That sort of thing.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
I mean, even just on the resaleside, like if you're listing a
house that's.
brand new compared to like a 1970s
house that has had like a greatfacelift.
It's still on title, a 1970s housewith some like, you know,
components that are not fullyupdated.
Yeah.
The struggle that I often see is
(24:34):
people, they want to do therenovation.
They find a really great locationand, you know, they're willing to
spend the money on doing therenovation.
But the thing that they run intois the older homes aren't designed
in such a way that makes it.
you know, cost effective to do the
types of modifications that theywant.
You know, if you've got, you know,a very rectangular, you know,
(24:55):
1970s build trying to go in and,you know, vault ceilings or, you
know, anything like that, it's, itcan be.
I don't ever want to do that.
What are you talking about?
This isn't a 1970s house, by theway.
about?This isn't a 1970s house, by the
way.
You told me it was a good idea.
I think it's a great idea.
And I think there's a lot of value
added, but, you know, things likethat, a lot of people have
expectations for, you know, arenovation that, you know, in some
(25:15):
cases just aren't achievable.
Yeah.
I just want to go back to thiscost, like who you call first.
So you call you first and then youtalk to a designer, you get plans
drawn.
an architect?
Yeah.
So there's lots of different ways
to do it.
The way that we try to approach
things with our client is we tryto kind of be that call it one
-stop shop.
So you get in touch with us, then
(25:36):
we'll coordinate.
So I like to sit down and, you
know, have a really in -depthconversation with a client and go,
okay, you know, what is the visionfor this project?
What is it that you're looking toachieve?
How can we help bring thattogether?
And then from there engaging, youknow, we work with a number of
different architects.
Everybody's got, you know,
different styles, you know,usually try to work with somebody
that's going to be able to kind ofof bring the client's vision to
(25:59):
life that way um oftentimes it'llend up being us engaging with the
client and then sitting down andhaving those conversations
together because knowing from theget -go you know how the client
wants to use the space some of thethings that they want to you know
accomplish with it can kind ofstreamline that then you know i
can have some conversations withwith the architect about you know
Whether it be structural detailsor, you know, moving walls, that
sort of thing, what's feasible onthe mechanical side of it, you
(26:24):
know, what sort of allowances dowe need to make?
And that can really help kind ofbring, you know, what's possible
with the home kind of back to theclient.
Then from there, we can really puttogether a good game plan.
So like somebody calls you andsays, like somebody calls you and
says, I have $100 ,000 and I wantto renovate X, Y, and Z. Talk to
you, talk to the planner, get aplan, come back and then you say,
(26:48):
okay, this is going to cost like$140 ,000.
to do this work with you to cutout 40 ,000 of that?
Like, how does this process workto get?
It seems like a very specificquestion.
seems like a very specificquestion.
Okay, Matt is the client.
It's from experience.
So I ran into this.
Yeah, I've just never fully
understood that part of it.
That's a tough question to answer.
So I want 140 ,000 worth of arenovation.
I want 140 ,000 worth of arenovation.
Yeah.
But I don't want you don't know,
(27:10):
you don't know, like the averageperson has no idea what $100 ,000
renovation is.
Yeah.
Like, is that a kitchen?Like, honestly, in my experience,
that's a kitchen, right?Or is that a bedroom wing?
So usually I would kind of startoff with like a really high level
budget for them.
So we have a look at the space,
kind of chat about what they wantto do.
I would put together something,you know, really high level and
(27:31):
say, you know what, if we want tomove forward with this, then, you
know, let's actually do somedeeper investigation.
Let's have a look into, you know.
What's your electrical capacity in
your home?If we're adding, you know, another
bathroom and, you know, a bunch ofextra lighting and that sort of
thing, is that going to triggerthe need for, you know, a service
upgrade?Is there stuff with your, you
know, septic?Again, you know, adding bathrooms
is a big one.
Starting to add a whole bunch of
(27:51):
fixtures.
Do you have an outdated septic
system that really, you know,should be updated to connect it to
city sewer?it to city sewer?
Even like the water main.
So we had to update the water main
here.
Yeah.
Just because we were adding abathroom.
I was like.
you kidding me you're not gonna
use any more water yeah you knowbut yeah you're right like i i did
not anticipate that.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, we do our best to kind ofcover all those bases.
(28:12):
So our process would be engagewith the client.
Let's have a conversation.
Let's understand, you know, put
together a really high levelbudget.
Then at a very high level, we cankind of discuss, you know, this is
way more than we thought it wasgoing to be, you know, where can
we scale back?And then we start having those
conversations about, well, youknow, a lot of it's going to
depend on the fixtures.
You know, these are, you know,
(28:33):
some of the things from, you know,a code requirement and municipal
requirements that.
are going to need to be done.
So those are, you know, things wecan budge on working from there,
whether it be reducing, you know,cost of finishes, reducing the
square footage in the areas thatwe're working with and trying to
kind of get into that ballpark.
Yeah.
I'm just kind of laughing in myhead because you guys ever watched
Love It or List It?Yeah.
Yeah.
This seems like a Love It or List
It thing.
Like, you know.
(28:54):
Jeff wants to stay and he wants torenovate these three sections of
the house, but they're overbudget.
So he's got to cut one.
And which one is it going to be?
I mean, I guess, yeah, it justcomes down to that.
It is super expensive, but likeeverything is.
Yeah.
This is a good segue into your
next point is changing the scopemidway through.
How does that happen?Often that can come from kind of a
(29:16):
lack of a good plan.
It could be anything from, you
know, we get started intosomething.
We've put a plan together.
You know, we hope this never
happens, but, you know, maybethere was a different expectation
between, you know.
what the client thought the space
was going to look like if we madethe certain changes.
Or, you know, it could be, youknow, maybe it is budgetary
restraints.
You know, let's say we did run
across something that can bechallenging because you need to
stop, kind of take a step back andgo, okay, well, what are the
(29:38):
things that are going to beimpacted here?
What needs to be kind of reworked,taken apart, that sort of thing so
that we can, you know, start tomove forward.
That can have huge budgetaryrepercussions and it can also
impact your schedule in a big way.
Yeah, I imagine time would be the
biggest one, right?Yeah, for sure.
right?Yeah, for sure.
And then skimping on structuralelements was number three.
Yeah, that's not something that wewould ever do.
we would ever do.
Well, that's just going to throw
(29:59):
everything off, right?Then like walls aren't squared.
Yeah.
Drywall's popping.
Yeah, things just don't fitproperly.
No, for sure.
And yeah, we're not saying you do
any of these.
These were just wood clients.
So the next one, which isobviously a no -no, ignoring
permits and inspections.
Yeah.
I would assume like a lot ofpeople that want to do like a
small renovation would...
Never think of a permit, right?
It is shocking, Yeah.
(30:20):
is shocking, actually.
Some people just aren't aware.
There's other people out there.
It's a small project where, youknow, who's going to know sort of
thing.
And so those conversations can be
kind of difficult because, youknow, oftentimes it comes down to
kind of educating a client.
You know, you can do it without a
permit.
That's not something we're going
to be able to work with you on.
But if you do choose to move
forward in that direction, youknow, there are some potential
risks that you're taking kind ofin the long term, whether it be
(30:42):
somebody that's willing to, youknow, move forward with that.
Are you getting, you know, reallygood workmanship?
And if not, then, you know, if youdo have an issue down the road,
are you going to run into, youknow, trouble with insurance?
Yeah, this is a super interestingone because do you see it very
often, Matt, where like you'reselling a home and there's a flag
saying the renovation wasn't doneto code or permitted or anything?
(31:02):
In the city file, no, notgenerally.
I went to finance one for a clientabout a month ago, and it was on
title that there's like a bylawinfraction.
So I looked into it and said, youknow, ask the agent, hey, what's
the bylaw infraction?Oh, they did some work that wasn't
permitted.
And they had like a stop recorder
or something?Yeah, so the neighbor complained.
Obviously, you've got to have goodrelationships with your neighbor.
I don't know to the extent of thework that was being done, but we
(31:23):
cannot finance that property untilthey finish it and bring it up to
code.
But now they have a bylaw
infraction stating that work'sbeen complete, so you've got to
start all over again, generally.
so you've got to start all over
again, which is so costly.
I think it depends on the
situation.
I see a lot of houses that
obviously were not.
Yeah, like it's changed.
Well, and like it also just lookslike shit.
(31:43):
So like it's obvious that therewas no permit.
Yeah.
There's a lot of stuff that I've
seen.
Like you look at the city file or
pull all the papers on it or pullin technical safety BC and there's
no word.
So obviously it was not a permit
either.
So where's the liability fall?
where's the liability fall?Like if your client's going to buy
something.
Well, on the PDS, on the property
disclosure statement, you have tosay, are you aware of anything
done without a permit?Yeah.
Right?So a lot of times, yes, we did X,
(32:06):
Y, and Z without a permit.
So then the buyer just has to know
that.
But then that might come an issue
with your lender at that point.
Yeah, that has definitely come up.
Yeah, and insurance.
Or insurance.
Yeah, insurance.
Yes, yes.
But I guess so if you buy thatproperty and something comes up
later on down like two months fromnow, and insurance.
I guess so if you buy thatproperty and something comes up
later on down like two months fromnow, it's like, wow.
(32:28):
We accepted the PDS, so you're onthe floor.
floor.
Well, think about something like a
non -legal suite.
Those are basically all, by
definition, not permanent.
Yeah.
You're still buying houses.
You're still financing them based
on the rental.
Yeah.
So I think it's just a case -by-case basement or a case -by -case
situation.
Or basement, basement, you're
right.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's a lot moreto it than that.
But yeah, like a mobile home, webasically have to have a
electrical inspection to even sellone, to even list one.
(32:50):
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I would not be surprised to see
that come in to regular housestoo, but - Yeah.
Easiest way to get sued is a realestate agent.
They list a mobile home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As a real estate agent, yes.
Yeah.
There's a lot to them.
Yeah.
So yeah, but we do see this all
the time.
Yeah.
the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Last on the list, rushing thefinal walkthrough.
Yeah.
Right.
So I'm going to take like fivedays with you then.
That's what you're telling me.
(33:11):
Yeah.
Well, turn off all the lights, getthe side light on the drywall.
Yeah.
And then you see those videos
where the wall looks like perfectand then you do that light.
light.
It just looks like a monstrosity.
It's understandable whether it's anew home or, you know, you've been
renovating a space, you know.
The homeowner is going to be
excited to move in and theyprobably want to put their life
back together and not be living ina renovation or build anymore.
(33:37):
But that's one of the things thatI always like to kind of take a
step back with because, you know,I always say.
Let us get in there.
Let us finish doing our job.
You know, let's make sure that allof the paint touch ups are
completed, that, you know,everything is working.
Because once you start moving in,you know, if there's something
that we need to, you know, tackle,let's say it is a deficiency, it
(33:59):
can make it a lot morechallenging.
It can also be hard to kind ofreally get a good grasp on, you
know, what is actually left to bedone.
Yeah.
And so that's something that I
usually say, let's get itfinished.
Let's be done in the space.
And then that way we can be right
out of your hair.
You can move in, the space is
yours.
And then we're not, you know,
(34:19):
trying to trip over each other forthe next, you know, week as we,
you know, try to finish up whatmight've been a day or two is
worth of actual work.
Yeah, totally.
I just happened to be, have sold alot of new units lately.
So I've been doing a lot ofefficiency walkthroughs and like,
it has been.
Honestly, a learning experience
for me.
Just the different things that you
catch.
Like one of them we walk through
and there's just like a dozenpaint issues that need to be fixed
(34:42):
and a couple like light switches.
Like just minor things like that.
Then other ones are just likelengthy lists of a lot of stuff
that's wrong.
I totally agree with deficiency.
To be pretty ruthless when you'redoing it.
Yeah.
And even kind of from builder's
perspective, I always will walkthrough a project as it's wrapping
up.
I like to do the final walk
through myself.
And so I'll go through and I try
to put myself in the shoes, youknow, of the client that's walking
through and, you know, looking atthose things.
(35:02):
Because what I have experienced inthe past is it can be great
quality.
But once somebody picks up on one
or two things, one, you can't everunsee it.
And two, you will find more.
And so a super minor issue can
turn into full repaint if somebodystarts looking too closely,
because at the end of the day, youknow, a level four finish on a
wall when you're standing, youknow, away from it.
you're not going to see anything.
(35:23):
But if you get right up to it with
a light and you're inspecting itfrom six inches away, chances are
you're going to be able to see theodd deficiency here and there, but
it's not actually a deficiency.
Let's dive into our wrap -up
questions here.
If you could buy any property in
the Okanagan in the next 12months, what would it be?
Probably a building lot.
Yeah.
My wife and I would really like tobuild our own place.
(35:46):
Whereabouts do you want to getone?
I like the lower mission area.
We'd like something with a view.
Whether or not that happens,that's...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
If you could give your 20 year old
self any advice, what would it be?Probably enjoy the journey and be
open to taking some chances hereand there.
And yeah, just learn to love theprocess.
Nice.
What's your favorite charity or
how do you give back?I like giving back to the people
(36:09):
around me.
So wherever I can, you know,
whether it be a little bit of mytime or, you know, if I've got
some insight or something likethat, that I can provide.
or even just connecting peopleand, you know, whether it be an
introduction or creating a newopportunity for somebody.
I like to just kind of build upthe community and the people
around me wherever I can.
Yeah, I love that.
Awesome.
Well, Troy, it's been awesome.
(36:29):
How can Taylor or I or ourlistener help you?
Don't look at me.
I know the answer.
Get off my back, man.
It'll get done when it gets done.
Honestly, just give us a follow.
We'd love to hear from you.
If you've got somebody that'slooking to do a project of any
sort, we'd be happy to connect andsee if we can be the right fit for
them.
Yeah.
And mostly Instagram website.
Instagram website.
Yeah.
I can give you our Instagram at
frozen co and our website is thesame www
(36:50):
frozenco .com.
Sweet.
Awesome.
Thanks, man.
Welcome back to the Colonial RealEstate Podcast.
(00:01):
I'm your mortgage broker host,Estate Podcast.
I'm your mortgage broker host,Taylor Atkinson.
And I'm your real estate agenthost, Matt Glenn.
What's happening, Taylor?What's up?
What's down?Yeah, good question.
Do you have any stocks right now?If you do, you probably had a
heart attack for about two daysand now you're fine.
Everything's fine.
Well, you get a little surge.
We're recording this.
(00:21):
What day is this?
Wednesday the 9th.
at 1 .30 in the afternoon.
So this morning, there was a hugebump because of another tariff
announcement, which I don't thinkaffected Canada.
I think we still have all the sametariffs.
But markets just go crazy.
So is now a time to sell when it's
on a bit of a high?Who knows what is going on here?
(00:43):
Definitely don't listen to us ifyou have stocks that buy and sell.
don't listen to us if you havestocks that buy and sell.
But I guess let's rewind thisabout a week.
Right.
A week ago, Trump basically
imposed tariffs globally on aglobal scale to an absolute ton of
countries.
And it was exposed, I guess, the
way he was calculating the tariffswere not correct.
Right.
It was just basically based on
trade deficit and then used amultiplier and used like the
(01:03):
higher of the two.
So some countries were getting
absolutely hammered.
Vietnam, I think, was like a 49
percent tariff, which is insane.
So Shoe Dog, Phil Knight.
nike book whoever hasn't read ityou should read it it's a great
book but it outlined in that booka couple times that they had to
like move countries and he waslike over in japan and then had to
(01:24):
like move it into like southeastasia and like because of these
type of international agreementsbut i mean nike gets a ton of
their materials and assembly fromvietnam so like nike's stock just
absolutely plummeted, right?Like a lot of other stocks, but
because of this, because of thoseimposed tariffs.
And then today, you know, Trumphas, I guess, repositioned some of
(01:44):
those tariffs and is coming tosome other agreements.
So it's just like the volatilityis impossible to keep up with in
this market.
The goal is to onshore jobs to the
US, is to onshore jobs to the US,but like, who's going to spend
hundreds of millions, if notbillions of dollars on a factory
when things change every singleday?
Not to mention like you're kind ofselecting for like not the
(02:04):
greatest jobs to come back.
I think a lot of people are kind
of realizing like globalization isprobably not entirely the worst
thing, you know, in all this.
I think in the long term, I think
in the long term, if it was like areally subtle plan that was like,
you know, spanned over 50 years tobring jobs back to America.
It's not like the worst strategy,but to do it like this in just one
(02:26):
foul swoop is insanity.
As of today, of today, he
increased tariffs to China to125%.
You just got to think of abusiness like Amazon or Walmart.
I don't know what it is, but it'sgot to be like at least 75 % of
everything in both of thosebusinesses comes from China.
That is a massive amount.
Everything's doubled one and a
(02:47):
half times or one and a quartertimes is expensive.
Well, yeah.
I mean, it does a lot of things,
right?It increases the cost of those
goods, but then it also hurts theeconomy, GDP.
People aren't going to be...
spending as much money.
So, you know, jobs are going to beat a loss.
It's just going to compound.
(03:08):
But one of the interesting posts I
saw, this was a couple of daysago, obviously, it's probably back
up to normal now, but Elon Musklost like $130 billion.
whatever it was, it was like athird of his net worth, you know,
a billion.
Yeah.
Over the span of like a couple ofdays.
And he was, you know, one ofTrump's biggest supporters.
So it's like, those guys can't besuper happy about this either.
Can they?Who knows?
(03:30):
Maybe like he sold and then boughtback in the day before.
Well, I was trying to think likelast night, was trying to think
like last night, I'm like, who iswinning?
It just seems like there isn'tanybody besides like people like
taking like political.
points that is actually happy
about this.
It just seems like everyone's mad
about it.
It just feels like a lose -lose.
Is there someone making a lot ofmoney?
I guess if you're betting onmarket fluctuations, probably make
some money right now, but justcrazy.
(03:51):
Then how it affects us, is thereal estate market going to come
roaring back when all thesetariffs are eventually... pulled
off?Or is the damage done?
Is it slow?Is the uncertainty just kill it?
How does it affect selling housesin Kelowna?
Yeah, I think there's a couple ofthings there.
I don't even think the uncertaintyanymore.
People are like, whatever, they'reprobably over it.
But they're not so worried aboutthe uncertainty of the market.
(04:13):
They're probably just uncertainabout their jobs.
The economy is going to reallysuffer on this.
But to talk about interest rates.
So the bond market's been
incredibly volatile because ofthis.
Yes.
But, you know, we saw a little bit
of a dip on some fixed rates andthen back up.
They're moving, but they'resomewhat stagnant just because no
lender is going to change theirrate based on a Trump announcement
(04:34):
that lasts for a day.
Like you just can't do business
that way.
What we are seeing, though, are
variable rate discounts areshrinking.
So, you know, a couple of monthsago, like on an insured mortgage.
let's just say like prime minus 1.15.
And then last month was primeminus one, and now it's prime
minus 0 .85.
So that discount that clients were
getting is starting to shrink,which is unfortunate, but it's
(04:54):
what lenders do on these type oftimes that are, I guess, more risk
on their money, right?Because they're expecting Bank of
Canada is going to lower ratestoo, but it's just overly
volatile.
So they got to protect the risk a
little bit and have that margin.
So if you had a variable rate, a
few months ago.
Awesome.
You have that discount.
Bank of Canada makes cuts.
(05:16):
You're in a great position.
If you were going to go variable
in the next couple of months,yeah, you might have to start to
reanalyze now just because of thediscount starting to shrink.
So, you know, like just in mybusiness, I think uncertainty is
kind of ruling the day right now.
I don't anymore.
I have one still, but I had threelistings all had accepted offers
subject to sale, which is likekind of funny.
(05:37):
It feels like people want to move,but there's nobody like bookending
the transactions, right?Like the first time home buyers,
whoever it is, is buying thehouse.
Everyone has a house to sell.
And then the development
properties I have, I've had like alot of people, I think four now
reach out wanting to either theseller to finance the sale or like
remain a partner in the project.
So it's just like people are just
looking like almost morecreatively, right?
(05:58):
Like, yeah, it's not as black andwhite.
It's kind of funny.
Interesting.
I mean, I think this has kind ofbeen our narrative for the last
little while is single familyhomes are just going to become
scarce.
Oh, yeah.
They're going to increase in valuejust purely because no one can
afford to build them right now.
And, you know, a lot of that comes
back to our own government with,you know, being able to subdivide
(06:20):
and just like the cost of land andinfrastructure for that land.
But now with tariffs, the cost tobuild is a huge unknown.
So what builder is going to go outand do a 50 lot subdivision when
their margins 12%, their 12 %profit could now be a 12 % loss.
That 12 % profit is literally atweet away from not existing.
(06:42):
Totally.
So like if you're a developer, why
would you even bother at thispoint?
You know, if you're a homeownerthat wants to build or like, you
know, somebody that wants to havesome land and build their dream
house, it's like, is it going tobe 1 .4 million or 1 .8 million to
build?Like you just don't know.
That's too much of a gamble.
So I don't think single family
houses are really going to get thetraction.
(07:03):
And our guest today, Troy Froese,he's a home builder.
They do it.
All in design GC help with a lot
of different type of projects.
Really good resource.
Great guy to reach out to if youhave anything on the go right now.
Anywhere from just, you know,medium sized renovation to a new
build.
(07:23):
But those are the guys that are
going to be, you know, pencilingthis stuff in as soon as possible.
But I guess without any realinformation, like what do you do?
Everyone's just kind of astandstill.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was great talking to Troy,though.
Knowledgeable guy doing ithimself.
He brought a lot to the table.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he kind of touches on the best
things and the worst things youcan do when doing a renovation or
(07:44):
a new build.
Yeah.
Reach out to him if you have anyquestions and yeah, enjoy the show
guys.
And this episode, like every other
episode is sponsored by century 21assurance realty, best brokerage
in town, best brokerage in theOkanagan.
We're growing, growing in Kelowna,burning Kamloops, Kootenays.
We're here.
So if you're an agent looking for
a new place to land or a buyer orseller looking for an agent, give
us a shout.
Love to talk to you.
(08:06):
Okay.
Welcome to the Colonial Real
Estate Podcast.
Troy, how's it going?
Good.
Good.
How are you?Good.
Thanks.
We like to start our show with
just what does a perfect Fridaylook like other than being in my
house doing a renovation?Yeah.
So is this a lunch hour?lunch hour?
Yeah.
Am I getting built for this?
Am I getting built for this?Yeah.
Of course it's fillable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Troy and his crew, they are
(08:26):
helping out with the renovation onthe other side of the house.
So can speak highly of them.
Let's dive into the show and like,
yeah, what's your Friday looklike?
Yeah, usually try to be up early.
Got a young one.
So hit and miss depending on thenight before.
But usually try to get up beforeher and have a bit of time to get
(08:48):
some emails and critical stuff outof the way first thing.
And then I usually try to free mymorning up to spend time with her
and my wife.
Take it a little bit slower till
about probably about 9, 10 andthen head out to, you know.
check on all of our sites and, andthat type of thing.
So yeah, if it's Friday, thenusually back to the office, try to
(09:08):
wrap some things up, kind of tieup the loose ends before the
weekend.
And then in an ideal world, that's
wrapping up early, but as it goesinto the end of Friday, really
just wind down, spend some timewith the family, you know, maybe
try to do a barbecue or somethinglike that.
And yeah, just kind of set up forthe weekend.
Sweet.
The whole approach of the show is
kind of like expectations ofclients, how you communicate, how
do you kind of set people up forsuccess in the initial stages,
right?Because I feel like a lot of
(09:29):
people in Kelowna want to dorenovations, additions, basement
suites, they want to add value totheir home.
But you know, where do you start?So you kind of came up with the
idea of, you know, top five bestthings and five worst things.
So yeah, maybe if we want to gothrough that.
Yeah, there's a lot that goes intoit.
There's a lot of behind the scenesthat's kind of important to think
about when you're getting started.
(09:49):
I think getting a good team in
place, that's really critical.
This is my perspective.
But when you start to work with aclient, you're setting that
relationship up and it's not, youknow, just two weeks.
That's a working relationship.
And you want to make sure that
everybody aligns when it comes toexpectations, as well as even, you
know, kind of down to personalityand how you work together that
way.
Definitely.
Yeah.
And I will say like your
communication has been awesome.
(10:10):
You definitely like have.
composure that's just nice like itseems like you're in control and
there's no stresses so it makes iteasier for the client but uh yeah
i know i know shit hits the fanonce in a while and yeah yeah you
handle it well so obviously that'shaving your your team in place
yeah next you were talking aboutis set up like a realistic budget
with a contingency so how doespricing look obviously um like
cost plus is part of the programyeah so that's typically how we
(10:31):
would run most of our projectswould be from a cost plus so
that's typically how we would runmost of our projects would be from
a cost plus model, I feel thatthat's often kind of the best
value for the client.
You know, we could do a fixed
price, but you know, in that, thenmaybe things are padded to make
sure that, you know, some of thoseunexpected are after whether or
not they, you know, end up showingup.
(10:52):
So I find that if you approach itfrom a cost plus, then the client
ends up getting what they want.
They get the value for the time
and energy that's been put intothe project.
Oftentimes I hear, you know, ifsomebody's on a fixed price, then
some people can be.
a little bit more quick to try to
cut a corner or that sort of thingto, you know, increase the profit
margin, which that's not somethingthat we like to stand by.
(11:14):
Yeah.
We like to be transparent and make
sure that, you know, the client isgetting the, like I said, best
value for what they're paying for.
Yeah.
And I guess, I mean, we're talkingabout like an overall approach,
but like renovations compared tonew builds.
Obviously, renovations got to bepretty tough to quote because you
don't know what you're going toget when you open up the walls.
Do you have a preference on likewhat you like to work on?
We do a little bit of both.
do a little bit of both.
I probably enjoy new constructiona little bit more.
(11:35):
There are kind of less of thosekind of the unexpected.
That being said, as soon as youstart into the excavation, there's
100 things that you could run uponthat, you know.
lead to other challengesthroughout the build.
So pick your challenges and gofrom there.
But renovations are always fun,especially if they're a little bit
more tricky.
I like a good problem to solve.
If somebody's looking to renovatetheir house or do a new build,
(11:55):
should you be the first call theymake?
Yeah, between an architect, adesigner and your contractor,
those should be the first people.
And it would be good to have them
all work kind of in sync.
There's a lot of things that
everybody brings to the table andit can help one, make a really
good plan moving forward, but itcan also help with the planning
stages in terms.
of, you know, if your designer and
your contractor are workingtogether, they can look at ways to
(12:16):
make things more cost effective.
There can be things that, you
know, as a contractor, we'll lookat and go, you know, if we just
tweak the design a little bit thisway, it's going to make, you know,
our plumbing or electrical, youknow, that much easier.
And so it can make for a betteroverall product at the end and
eliminate some of those, you know,unexpected or, you know, more
expensive details that could comeup in a project.
I guess that kind of segues intothe next topic for you is
(12:37):
investing quality.
guess that kind of segues into the
next topic for you is investingquality.
where it matters.
So can you give us some examples
of that?Yeah, there's lots of different
products out there.
The most expensive isn't
necessarily the best.
Usually where I would start with
that is the areas that are good toreally invest in are going to be,
you know, your touch point areas.
So, you know, if it's a new build,
I would say, you know, those areaswhere, you know, you walk into the
(12:59):
home, kind of what are thesurfaces that you touch?
So that could even be, you know,stuff like your door handles, your
front door, that's a, that's goingto be a big statement piece.
You know, you walk into yourkitchen, that's, you know.
the heart of the home, aseverybody says.
So, you know, investing the moneyin those places, the primary
bathroom, bedroom wing, I thinkthat's another really good spot to
kind of spend some money.
And then just looking at really
careful selections.
I think bringing a designer into
(13:19):
the picture can have a big impacton that because a good design with
good quality products can reallypull a project together and make
or break it.
And it comes down to client
preference and what they value.
I've had some clients where, you
know, they really want the best,you know, most expensive, some
really beautiful items.
But those can be challenging when
it comes to, you know, thinkingabout maintenance down the road.
You know, what happens when, youknow, you've got a wall mounted
(13:40):
faucet behind a very expensivepiece of, you know, quartz or
something like that, that, youknow, eventually will need to be
serviced and potentially replaced.
So looking at kind of the long
term value of that and some peoplevalue, you know, maintenance free
and ease of replacement and thatsort of thing.
Whereas, you know, other peoplevalue kind of the aesthetic and
finish more.
Yeah.
The design part is, at least forme, I feel so overlooked, but I
thank God I have Emily that does alot of the decision making on
(14:00):
that.
Do you inherently just become like
a bit of a mediator?Also like a third opinion of like,
do you like green or do you likeyellow?
Like what should we use for paint?And you're kind of stuck in
between like.
All the time.
Yeah.
Not in this house, but.
No, no, no. No, no, no. You threwit in the towel a long time ago.
Yeah.
I'm completely hands off.
Yeah.
I have to.
(14:20):
Just not a battle I'm willing tofight.
Well, and my choices are.
off.
Yeah.
and my choices are.
Exactly.
Also, Exactly.
Also, we're all better off.
Yeah.
Totally.
But I guess, yeah.
Like, is there a certain pointwhere you just say like, you know,
hey, you guys should get adesigner.
Here's who we like to work with.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Like, and again, that's somethingthat I would usually chat with our
(14:41):
clients right from the get go.
That would be one of the first
things that we would discuss is,you know, is there room in the
budget for a designer?And one of the things that I'll
say even with that is, you know, agood designer can save you more
than their fees throughout thecourse of a project when it comes
to whether it be, you know, delaysin material selections, that type
(15:01):
of thing.
So having all those details really
well planned out ahead of time candefinitely help streamline that
and save you in the long run.
So that's something that at the
beginning of a project, I usuallydo discuss that with a client and
go, is that something you're opento?
I mean, some projects, they justdon't have the budget.
And, you know, if it's smallenough or, you know,
straightforward enough, someclients, you know, they know
exactly what they want and there'sjust no need for the selection
(15:24):
portion.
And when it comes down to, you
know, your cabinetry and millworkand stuff like that, that's
something I think it's always goodto have a designer's image.
put on.
But yeah.
Well, even just staying up withtrends and options, it's a pretty
fast -paced industry when you lookat styles.
It's hard to keep up.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Matt, so talking about materials
and stuff, have you felt theimpact of tariffs at all yet on
this?Are people choosing stuff made in
(15:45):
Italy more than something made inMichigan?
Haven't seen that too much.
I do anticipate that that will be
something that comes down quitefairly soon.
A lot of building products.
are manufactured in the States.
And so I do anticipate, you know,some definite cost increases
there.
Are we just going to have all of a
sudden European style all overCanada?
we just going to have all of asudden European style all over
Canada?Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
You know what?
You never know.
(16:06):
But I was trying to price
something out last week, aluminumrailing product.
The supplier actually came back tome and said, listen, we'd love to
get your pricing on this, but wedon't know.
So we'll be in touch in a weekfrom now when we have a little bit
better idea of what's going on.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's going to be a toughone.
Obviously, we're very fresh intothis little game we're playing
right now.
Yeah.
But I think we're going to see alot of weird things coming up that
(16:27):
you don't really realize.
Like things you just take for
granted.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
Oh, for sure.
That are just going to all of asudden be obsolete.
They're just going to pivot.
going to pivot.
Yeah.
Challenges with getting products
and the price, I think.
Yeah.
I mean, I have seen that a littlebit here and there on a few
different products where it's likewhat I could buy it for three
(16:48):
months ago is drasticallydifferent than it is today.
It's funny because it's actuallymore than 25 % because you think
like the price was a price becausethey could just throw it on truck
B that was coming to Canada.
funny because it's actually more
than 25 % because you think likethe price was a price because they
could just throw it on truck Bthat was coming to Canada.
(17:08):
But now those trucks aren't comingto Canada.
So now we get to pay for thattruck to ship that one thing and
then pay the 25%.
So it's like some products are
going to be way more than 25 %more.
Right.
So. I mean, I'm just thinking like
on a smaller scale with homeownersthat are like just breaking ground
and they have their budget.
Let's say even half of the
material goes up by 25%.
That's going to blow their budget
out of the water.
And then if you've got a larger
(17:30):
scale, like a developer that's,you know, just pouring foundation
on like a 50 unit place, even iflike, you know.
10 % of those materials arecoming.
How do you make it feasible?Yeah, it's definitely a big
concern that I've had looking outat the future of our housing
market and economy and stuff likethat in general.
On a million dollar bill, 25 % isa lot of money.
Not everybody has that in theirbudget to spend in addition to.
I guess this is how things evolvethough, guess this is how things
(17:50):
evolve though, right?If you look at the positive side,
it was like something like thiscomes out, people are going to
find a different material orresource.
Or just buy the steel straightfrom Hamilton.
You almost need these highpressure situations that backs up
against the wall and then you finda better alternative solution.
We even felt that in COVID.
We started to have to look at
alternative solutions, getcreative with the products we were
using and that sort of thing.
It was actually really interesting
because sometimes there werebetter quality products out there
that became the more costeffective options.
And so you were ending up with abetter overall.
build obviously we're stillspending more but at the end of
the day the cost between yourtraditional build versus you know
(18:12):
going something a little bitdifferent and getting creative
ended up being the better way togo you know like obviously this is
not where we thought thisconversation was going to go but
just like never is but there seemslike amazing opportunities for
some canadian manufacturers andproducers to like fill these gaps
because like someone just breakingground like if you're doing 100
units you need to buy what like400 faucets right so like times
that over this is not where wethought this conversation was
(18:35):
going to go but like never is butlike seems like amazing
opportunities for some canadianmanufacturers and producers to
like fill these gaps because likesomeone just breaking ground like
if you're doing 100 units you needto buy what like 400 faucets right
so like times that over everywherelike man that's a huge uh yeah
opportunity if you want to takeadvantage of it all right put this
on pause we're gonna go start amanufacturing company you're in my
mind yeah the next topic was thinkabout function and flow so again
(18:56):
that probably comes back to likethe design you know working with
an architect yeah working with thearchitect and really kind of
asking the questions like you knowhow am i going to use the space on
a daily basis so company companyyou're in my mind yeah next topic
was think about function and flowso again that probably comes back
to like the design you knowworking with an architect working
(19:19):
with the architect and really kindof asking the questions like you
know how am i going to use thespace on a daily basis But how is
it going to be used, you know,two, three years down the road?
Are you a growing family?Are there going to be more kids?
Is there a need for a home officeat some point?
Recently had a client we helpedwith in addition.
And that was one of the thingsthey were looking to use it for,
(19:41):
you know, their home business.
And they needed to create some
extra space that way.
And so that was kind of one of the
things we discussed is, you know,well, we can size things and set
it up so that it's, you know,very.
you know, strictly business based,or we can, you know, make
allowances for certain things sothat down the road, it's, you
know, an easy conversion to asecondary suite, or, you know,
it's just additional, you know,it's a nice flow to, you know, two
or three additional bedrooms and abathroom to your home.
So it adds that square footage andvalue for you down the road when,
you know, should you decide tosell or, you know, you're not,
you're not using it in that wayanymore.
(20:03):
So I think that's something that'sreally important.
And a lot of people do overlookthat is they're like, you know, we
want to do this and this is whatit's for, but.
thinking about that future use,how are some of the ways that you
might want to use it in the futureand what can you do to kind of
make so that it's, you know,workable for those items as well.
(20:23):
And also looking at, you know,potential resale.
Yeah.
Well, I was going to say that
that's where you'd tag in somebodylike Matt or real estate agent to
do a CMA and say like, Hey,comparables in this area, if we
added this extra bathroom, yeah,it's going to cost X for the
client, but they are looking atmoving in five years.
Would that be a worthwhileinvestment?
That's something good to look at.
Yeah, definitely.
Then your last one for best thingsto do would be plan for future
maintenance and upgrades.
I think that's a big one as well.
You don't know.
the cost of things until like
things start to break down on you.
Use an example of, you know, the
type of decking that you use.
You can go with better quality
product that carries a warrantythat's, you know, less prone to
break down from UV and weather andstuff like that.
Or you can, you know, spend a lotless and just do, you know.
(20:45):
Something with wood, that type ofthing.
But as we live in the Okanagan andit gets hotter and hotter every
year, it seems wood does not holdup very well.
And so when you look at kind ofover the next 10 years, what's
your maintenance cost on thisproduct versus spending a little
bit more up front, but havingsomething that's going to weather
a lot better and has thosewarranties.
Those are always good things tokind of consider and look at and
kind of weigh out.
Yeah, I love it.
(21:06):
I see that you have heateddriveways here.
What can you do to prepare forthat?
That's a great question.
I'm like, whoa.
Yeah.
Getting sick of shoveling?
No, I actually, I love shoveling.
But we only had to shovel like
once or twice this year.
Yeah, I think I only shoveled once
this year.
I could have used at least...
10 times that many.
Yeah, no, for sure.
With that one in particular, whenyou're going through your rough in
stage, it would be applicable toboth renovation and new
construction, but kind of makingthose allowances, you know, things
(21:29):
you have to consider there is, isthere a power requirement for, you
know, sensors and stuff like that?How are you going to get that
stuff back into the home once it'scompleted?
So having the room, you know, ifyou need to put in a boiler,
running water lines and stuff likethat.
So if those are things as you'rekind of working through that
design phase, we're like.
(21:49):
You know, maybe it's not in the
budget right now, but, you know,down the road, we'd like to put in
a gate or, you know, we'd like to,you know, do a heated floor.
We want to throw in a hot tub or apool in the backyard.
Looking at, you know, the thingsthat you can do during
construction to get things, youknow, close to those areas so that
it's roughed in so that, you know,down the road, you're not having
(22:10):
to tear your house apart or digup, you know, your entire yard and
driveway just to make allowancesand install those items that can
save you immense.
Yeah, it's kind of funny thinking
about houses from like 30 yearsago.
It seems like a long time ago, butnot a lot has evolved in the use
of a home.
But in terms of like when you look
at renovating a 30 -year -oldhome, why did they ever do this?
Like why would a kitchen beenclosed?
(22:31):
Like it seems like the trendschange.
So I'm curious now, you know, inlike 30 years, we're going to look
back on this house and be like,why is this kitchen open?
Oh my God.
Close the door.
kitchen open?Oh my God.
Close the door.
He wants to see this.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's get into the juicy part.
So five worst things you can dowith a renovation or build.
(22:51):
First one you have listed,underestimating costs and
timelines.
I mean.
Isn't this just a given?Like, doesn't everyone
underestimate?Yeah.
Okay.
Underestimate.
So you've got to think you can doa kitchen for 5 ,000.
Bathroom for 2 ,000.
Yeah, exactly.
Heat and dry away for what?4 ,500?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And an afternoon.
And an afternoon.
Yeah.
So like, that's got to be a tough
conversation to have.
It can be.
There's often a lot of stickershock because there's a lot of
(23:11):
items that, you know, go intodoing, you know.
a renovation or a new build that alot of people you know they're
just not aware of let's say you'redoing a renovation and you start
you know tearing out walls andstuff like that you know maybe you
end up having to remove drywall onthe ceiling to you know rework
your electrical.
Now you're starting to trigger
some code requirements.
And that's just one kind of small
example where when you start totouch stuff, pull it apart.
Well, now you have to actuallybring it up to today's code.
(23:33):
And there can be a lot that goesinto kind of making those upgrades
just to get you back to, you know,let's say drywall stage where you
can actually put your kitchen backtogether.
So lots of items like that.
What do you kind of see difference
in renovation costs and new buildcosts?
If somebody is looking to prettymuch, you know, got a house, rip
down the drywall to the studs, isit going to be effectively the
same cost just because the laborto get the demo done?
(23:53):
It depends on the bones of thehouse.
I would say that there's somehouses out there that.
You're better off to just bulldozeit by the time you bring
everything up to today's code and,you know, bring it back to what
you want.
The total dollar figure will
definitely be less than, you know,building new.
But if you look at the value addto your property over time, you
can look at it's a brand newhouse.
It's got the warranty.
It's got, you know, new finishes.
You're not going to be looking atneeding a new roof anytime soon.
(24:14):
That sort of thing.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
I mean, even just on the resaleside, like if you're listing a
house that's.
brand new compared to like a 1970s
house that has had like a greatfacelift.
It's still on title, a 1970s housewith some like, you know,
components that are not fullyupdated.
Yeah.
The struggle that I often see is
(24:34):
people, they want to do therenovation.
They find a really great locationand, you know, they're willing to
spend the money on doing therenovation.
But the thing that they run intois the older homes aren't designed
in such a way that makes it.
you know, cost effective to do the
types of modifications that theywant.
You know, if you've got, you know,a very rectangular, you know,
(24:55):
1970s build trying to go in and,you know, vault ceilings or, you
know, anything like that, it's, itcan be.
I don't ever want to do that.
What are you talking about?
This isn't a 1970s house, by theway.
about?This isn't a 1970s house, by the
way.
You told me it was a good idea.
I think it's a great idea.
And I think there's a lot of value
added, but, you know, things likethat, a lot of people have
expectations for, you know, arenovation that, you know, in some
(25:15):
cases just aren't achievable.
Yeah.
I just want to go back to thiscost, like who you call first.
So you call you first and then youtalk to a designer, you get plans
drawn.
an architect?
Yeah.
So there's lots of different ways
to do it.
The way that we try to approach
things with our client is we tryto kind of be that call it one
-stop shop.
So you get in touch with us, then
(25:36):
we'll coordinate.
So I like to sit down and, you
know, have a really in -depthconversation with a client and go,
okay, you know, what is the visionfor this project?
What is it that you're looking toachieve?
How can we help bring thattogether?
And then from there engaging, youknow, we work with a number of
different architects.
Everybody's got, you know,
different styles, you know,usually try to work with somebody
that's going to be able to kind ofof bring the client's vision to
(25:59):
life that way um oftentimes it'llend up being us engaging with the
client and then sitting down andhaving those conversations
together because knowing from theget -go you know how the client
wants to use the space some of thethings that they want to you know
accomplish with it can kind ofstreamline that then you know i
can have some conversations withwith the architect about you know
Whether it be structural detailsor, you know, moving walls, that
sort of thing, what's feasible onthe mechanical side of it, you
(26:24):
know, what sort of allowances dowe need to make?
And that can really help kind ofbring, you know, what's possible
with the home kind of back to theclient.
Then from there, we can really puttogether a good game plan.
So like somebody calls you andsays, like somebody calls you and
says, I have $100 ,000 and I wantto renovate X, Y, and Z. Talk to
you, talk to the planner, get aplan, come back and then you say,
(26:48):
okay, this is going to cost like$140 ,000.
to do this work with you to cutout 40 ,000 of that?
Like, how does this process workto get?
It seems like a very specificquestion.
seems like a very specificquestion.
Okay, Matt is the client.
It's from experience.
So I ran into this.
Yeah, I've just never fully
understood that part of it.
That's a tough question to answer.
So I want 140 ,000 worth of arenovation.
I want 140 ,000 worth of arenovation.
Yeah.
But I don't want you don't know,
(27:10):
you don't know, like the averageperson has no idea what $100 ,000
renovation is.
Yeah.
Like, is that a kitchen?Like, honestly, in my experience,
that's a kitchen, right?Or is that a bedroom wing?
So usually I would kind of startoff with like a really high level
budget for them.
So we have a look at the space,
kind of chat about what they wantto do.
I would put together something,you know, really high level and
(27:31):
say, you know what, if we want tomove forward with this, then, you
know, let's actually do somedeeper investigation.
Let's have a look into, you know.
What's your electrical capacity in
your home?If we're adding, you know, another
bathroom and, you know, a bunch ofextra lighting and that sort of
thing, is that going to triggerthe need for, you know, a service
upgrade?Is there stuff with your, you
know, septic?Again, you know, adding bathrooms
is a big one.
Starting to add a whole bunch of
(27:51):
fixtures.
Do you have an outdated septic
system that really, you know,should be updated to connect it to
city sewer?it to city sewer?
Even like the water main.
So we had to update the water main
here.
Yeah.
Just because we were adding abathroom.
I was like.
you kidding me you're not gonna
use any more water yeah you knowbut yeah you're right like i i did
not anticipate that.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, we do our best to kind ofcover all those bases.
(28:12):
So our process would be engagewith the client.
Let's have a conversation.
Let's understand, you know, put
together a really high levelbudget.
Then at a very high level, we cankind of discuss, you know, this is
way more than we thought it wasgoing to be, you know, where can
we scale back?And then we start having those
conversations about, well, youknow, a lot of it's going to
depend on the fixtures.
You know, these are, you know,
(28:33):
some of the things from, you know,a code requirement and municipal
requirements that.
are going to need to be done.
So those are, you know, things wecan budge on working from there,
whether it be reducing, you know,cost of finishes, reducing the
square footage in the areas thatwe're working with and trying to
kind of get into that ballpark.
Yeah.
I'm just kind of laughing in myhead because you guys ever watched
Love It or List It?Yeah.
Yeah.
This seems like a Love It or List
It thing.
Like, you know.
(28:54):
Jeff wants to stay and he wants torenovate these three sections of
the house, but they're overbudget.
So he's got to cut one.
And which one is it going to be?
I mean, I guess, yeah, it justcomes down to that.
It is super expensive, but likeeverything is.
Yeah.
This is a good segue into your
next point is changing the scopemidway through.
How does that happen?Often that can come from kind of a
(29:16):
lack of a good plan.
It could be anything from, you
know, we get started intosomething.
We've put a plan together.
You know, we hope this never
happens, but, you know, maybethere was a different expectation
between, you know.
what the client thought the space
was going to look like if we madethe certain changes.
Or, you know, it could be, youknow, maybe it is budgetary
restraints.
You know, let's say we did run
across something that can bechallenging because you need to
stop, kind of take a step back andgo, okay, well, what are the
(29:38):
things that are going to beimpacted here?
What needs to be kind of reworked,taken apart, that sort of thing so
that we can, you know, start tomove forward.
That can have huge budgetaryrepercussions and it can also
impact your schedule in a big way.
Yeah, I imagine time would be the
biggest one, right?Yeah, for sure.
right?Yeah, for sure.
And then skimping on structuralelements was number three.
Yeah, that's not something that wewould ever do.
we would ever do.
Well, that's just going to throw
(29:59):
everything off, right?Then like walls aren't squared.
Yeah.
Drywall's popping.
Yeah, things just don't fitproperly.
No, for sure.
And yeah, we're not saying you do
any of these.
These were just wood clients.
So the next one, which isobviously a no -no, ignoring
permits and inspections.
Yeah.
I would assume like a lot ofpeople that want to do like a
small renovation would...
Never think of a permit, right?
It is shocking, Yeah.
(30:20):
is shocking, actually.
Some people just aren't aware.
There's other people out there.
It's a small project where, youknow, who's going to know sort of
thing.
And so those conversations can be
kind of difficult because, youknow, oftentimes it comes down to
kind of educating a client.
You know, you can do it without a
permit.
That's not something we're going
to be able to work with you on.
But if you do choose to move
forward in that direction, youknow, there are some potential
risks that you're taking kind ofin the long term, whether it be
(30:42):
somebody that's willing to, youknow, move forward with that.
Are you getting, you know, reallygood workmanship?
And if not, then, you know, if youdo have an issue down the road,
are you going to run into, youknow, trouble with insurance?
Yeah, this is a super interestingone because do you see it very
often, Matt, where like you'reselling a home and there's a flag
saying the renovation wasn't doneto code or permitted or anything?
(31:02):
In the city file, no, notgenerally.
I went to finance one for a clientabout a month ago, and it was on
title that there's like a bylawinfraction.
So I looked into it and said, youknow, ask the agent, hey, what's
the bylaw infraction?Oh, they did some work that wasn't
permitted.
And they had like a stop recorder
or something?Yeah, so the neighbor complained.
Obviously, you've got to have goodrelationships with your neighbor.
I don't know to the extent of thework that was being done, but we
(31:23):
cannot finance that property untilthey finish it and bring it up to
code.
But now they have a bylaw
infraction stating that work'sbeen complete, so you've got to
start all over again, generally.
so you've got to start all over
again, which is so costly.
I think it depends on the
situation.
I see a lot of houses that
obviously were not.
Yeah, like it's changed.
Well, and like it also just lookslike shit.
(31:43):
So like it's obvious that therewas no permit.
Yeah.
There's a lot of stuff that I've
seen.
Like you look at the city file or
pull all the papers on it or pullin technical safety BC and there's
no word.
So obviously it was not a permit
either.
So where's the liability fall?
where's the liability fall?Like if your client's going to buy
something.
Well, on the PDS, on the property
disclosure statement, you have tosay, are you aware of anything
done without a permit?Yeah.
Right?So a lot of times, yes, we did X,
(32:06):
Y, and Z without a permit.
So then the buyer just has to know
that.
But then that might come an issue
with your lender at that point.
Yeah, that has definitely come up.
Yeah, and insurance.
Or insurance.
Yeah, insurance.
Yes, yes.
But I guess so if you buy thatproperty and something comes up
later on down like two months fromnow, and insurance.
I guess so if you buy thatproperty and something comes up
later on down like two months fromnow, it's like, wow.
(32:28):
We accepted the PDS, so you're onthe floor.
floor.
Well, think about something like a
non -legal suite.
Those are basically all, by
definition, not permanent.
Yeah.
You're still buying houses.
You're still financing them based
on the rental.
Yeah.
So I think it's just a case -by-case basement or a case -by -case
situation.
Or basement, basement, you're
right.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's a lot moreto it than that.
But yeah, like a mobile home, webasically have to have a
electrical inspection to even sellone, to even list one.
(32:50):
Yeah.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I would not be surprised to see
that come in to regular housestoo, but - Yeah.
Easiest way to get sued is a realestate agent.
They list a mobile home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As a real estate agent, yes.
Yeah.
There's a lot to them.
Yeah.
So yeah, but we do see this all
the time.
Yeah.
the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Last on the list, rushing thefinal walkthrough.
Yeah.
Right.
So I'm going to take like fivedays with you then.
That's what you're telling me.
(33:11):
Yeah.
Well, turn off all the lights, getthe side light on the drywall.
Yeah.
And then you see those videos
where the wall looks like perfectand then you do that light.
light.
It just looks like a monstrosity.
It's understandable whether it's anew home or, you know, you've been
renovating a space, you know.
The homeowner is going to be
excited to move in and theyprobably want to put their life
back together and not be living ina renovation or build anymore.
(33:37):
But that's one of the things thatI always like to kind of take a
step back with because, you know,I always say.
Let us get in there.
Let us finish doing our job.
You know, let's make sure that allof the paint touch ups are
completed, that, you know,everything is working.
Because once you start moving in,you know, if there's something
that we need to, you know, tackle,let's say it is a deficiency, it
(33:59):
can make it a lot morechallenging.
It can also be hard to kind ofreally get a good grasp on, you
know, what is actually left to bedone.
Yeah.
And so that's something that I
usually say, let's get itfinished.
Let's be done in the space.
And then that way we can be right
out of your hair.
You can move in, the space is
yours.
And then we're not, you know,
(34:19):
trying to trip over each other forthe next, you know, week as we,
you know, try to finish up whatmight've been a day or two is
worth of actual work.
Yeah, totally.
I just happened to be, have sold alot of new units lately.
So I've been doing a lot ofefficiency walkthroughs and like,
it has been.
Honestly, a learning experience
for me.
Just the different things that you
catch.
Like one of them we walk through
and there's just like a dozenpaint issues that need to be fixed
(34:42):
and a couple like light switches.
Like just minor things like that.
Then other ones are just likelengthy lists of a lot of stuff
that's wrong.
I totally agree with deficiency.
To be pretty ruthless when you'redoing it.
Yeah.
And even kind of from builder's
perspective, I always will walkthrough a project as it's wrapping
up.
I like to do the final walk
through myself.
And so I'll go through and I try
to put myself in the shoes, youknow, of the client that's walking
through and, you know, looking atthose things.
(35:02):
Because what I have experienced inthe past is it can be great
quality.
But once somebody picks up on one
or two things, one, you can't everunsee it.
And two, you will find more.
And so a super minor issue can
turn into full repaint if somebodystarts looking too closely,
because at the end of the day, youknow, a level four finish on a
wall when you're standing, youknow, away from it.
you're not going to see anything.
(35:23):
But if you get right up to it with
a light and you're inspecting itfrom six inches away, chances are
you're going to be able to see theodd deficiency here and there, but
it's not actually a deficiency.
Let's dive into our wrap -up
questions here.
If you could buy any property in
the Okanagan in the next 12months, what would it be?
Probably a building lot.
Yeah.
My wife and I would really like tobuild our own place.
(35:46):
Whereabouts do you want to getone?
I like the lower mission area.
We'd like something with a view.
Whether or not that happens,that's...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
If you could give your 20 year old
self any advice, what would it be?Probably enjoy the journey and be
open to taking some chances hereand there.
And yeah, just learn to love theprocess.
Nice.
What's your favorite charity or
how do you give back?I like giving back to the people
(36:09):
around me.
So wherever I can, you know,
whether it be a little bit of mytime or, you know, if I've got
some insight or something likethat, that I can provide.
or even just connecting peopleand, you know, whether it be an
introduction or creating a newopportunity for somebody.
I like to just kind of build upthe community and the people
around me wherever I can.
Yeah, I love that.
Awesome.
Well, Troy, it's been awesome.
(36:29):
How can Taylor or I or ourlistener help you?
Don't look at me.
I know the answer.
Get off my back, man.
It'll get done when it gets done.
Honestly, just give us a follow.
We'd love to hear from you.
If you've got somebody that'slooking to do a project of any
sort, we'd be happy to connect andsee if we can be the right fit for
them.
Yeah.
And mostly Instagram website.
Instagram website.
Yeah.
I can give you our Instagram at
frozen co and our website is thesame www
(36:50):
frozenco .com.
Sweet.
Awesome.
Thanks, man.
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