Episode 3 Life in the Typing Pool Part 1

In this episode we hear about all the different pathways that led typists to getting their first job in the Public Service typing pools. Many interviewees remember their first few days and what the expectations were, their new colleagues and interesting characters found in and outside the typing room.

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Find transcripts and more at www.storycollective.nz 

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This podcast is only made possible thanks to the work of the Keystrokes Oral History Project, find out more at www.storycollective.nz/background

Funding support from the Public Services Commission (NZ) and the Ministry of Culture and Heritage (NZ). 

Soundtrack with permission and thanks from The Boston Typewriter Orchestra, find their music on bandcamp.com

© Copyright 2017 Meg Melvin as StorycollectiveNZ

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Storycollective, untold stories by unheard voices. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Haere mai, welcome to Episode 3 Life in the Typing Pool Part 1, Getting the job.
In this episode we hear about all the different pathways that led typists to getting their first job
in the Public Service Typing Pools. Many interviewees remember their first few days

(00:24):
and what the expectations were, their new colleagues, and interesting characters found in,
and outside, of the typing room. [Typewriter carriage return sound] Before we kick off Episode 3,
let me introduce listeners to one of the Keystrokes Oral History Project researchers,
without whom this podcast would not exist. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
Kia ora (hello), I am Maureen Goodwin, part of the Keystrokes per Minute Project Team from the beginning in 2017.

(00:52):
First time, I touched a typewriter was in February 1962, when I began college.
I have used these skills for 51 years, in paid employment, and
in this project. I am so pleased to be part of this team,
which has worked so hard to record the oral history of over 55 skilled

(01:15):
and dedicated Public Servants. And this oral history,
and the podcasts, are a living tribute to the employment and social history
of these women. A story that is now officially part of the National Library Records.
[Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Some of the interviewees mentioned taking their exams, or gaining their Certs.

(01:40):
This relates to the professional qualifications, that women and men, could obtain through workplace learning,
via vocational institutions, or by attending night classes.
The qualifications essentially fall into four types, three of which are only recognised in New Zealand,
they are trade certification board or TCB; Chamber of Commerce or Government exams,

(02:02):
sometimes called Public Service exams. The fourth type is Pitman shorthand and typing exams,
which are still current today and are recognised internationally.
Listeners can see examples of some of our interviewees certificates on the www.storycollective.nz website,
or on our Instagram @storycollectivenz. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(02:25):
{Presenter} In this first clip of Life in the Typing Pool, we hear from Mary Dooley,
who started working in 1950, and whom spent their entire career in the Public Service.
Mary's polio was a factor in choosing where she worked, and she had to consider the logistics
of the physical environment, as well as the nature of the work. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(02:46):
{Mary} And I had an interview at State Services Commission, with Miss Ria McBride,
who was the Chief Typist for the Public Service at that time.
She was later the CEO of Māori Affairs or somewhere like that.
She be was the first woman to become a CEO in the Public Service.

(03:08):
She had been a Shorthand Typist and had been in charge all the Typing Services,
at the State Services Commission. {Rose} Can you remember your job interview?
{Mary} I can, very clearly, I can remember Miss McBride talking to me about,
you know, how would I manage, to get from A to B. because of my disability.

(03:29):
I didn't have a wheelchair in those days, I used to walk with 2 callipers and 2 walking sticks.
And I needed a job that was handy to the Railway Station because I didn't have a car,
And I couldn't even walk to the station, but I used to get dubbed (conveyed) on the bike by my brother,
And he would drop me at Woburn and I'd catch the train, and I was able to walk.

(03:53):
Miss McBride suggested I work in an office that was handy to the station, and so, there was Air Department,
and there was Island Territories, and there was Health Department.
And I chose Health and I went, it was across the road in the hotel,
old Hotel Cecil building, on Lambton Quay.

(04:14):
It had been the American Forces Headquarters in Wellington, during the war.
And the typing room, which was on the First Floor, was the old, the old Sitting Room.
I worked in... the office was divided into two pools,
because you couldn't get full-time staff. And so they had two or three positions

(04:37):
8which had half times. So although there was nine positions, they wouldn't all fit in same room.
Because you had four people working 9am to 1pm, and
to make up the numbers. {Rose} So they worked different...
{Mary} I worked full-time, I was in the sort of a subsidiary pool with 4 in it.

(04:58):
There was a part-time girl, who started work the same day as me,
who was a Typist Trainee, and she had half a day at Tech, and half a day in the typing pool.
And then there was the lady in charge of the room, me and one other person.
Our work was taking shorthand, there's a Shorthand Typist in the room I was in,

(05:20):
it was 4 people, as well as that that there was the Gestetner (copy machine).
And all the office kept coming in and out, to use the... run the copies of this and that.
And equipment with past its use-by date. I had an old Imperial typewriter,
older than the ones we learned on at school was definitely out-of-date before the war.

(05:41):
So then they got a new machine. [Typewriter ding] {Rose} When you started there,
your position was? {Mary} Junior Shorthand Typist. {Rose} Right. {Mary} Starting yes, I had,
I had my Chamber of Commerce Shorthand Typing - 80 words a minute, and I had my Grade 1.
{Rose} Where did you do those exams? {Mary} From Sacred Heart, yes.

(06:03):
{Rose} They were done... {Mary} Sister Eugenius prided herself on being a very good teacher
of shorthand and typing. And most of her star pupils had great positions all around the world.
Like at the United States Embassy and things like that, in New York, London,
wherever... they were her girls. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Lorraine's first days as a junior typist for the Ministry of Education in Wellington

(06:28):
is still a memorable event, 62 years after she started there in 1960. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} On the day I arrived, the Supervising Typist, of all the typists, had retired and started
again as an ordinary Typist because they couldn't get Typists in the Government either, you see?
So the day I arrived, she was sitting there as a Staff Typist, and she was telling us these wonderful

(06:50):
stories about... because she'd started when she was 16, and she was now 60, and this was 1960.
And she was saying how in the war, they had to uhm, they couldn't get carbon paper,
so they had to sit in front of the heater and let it run into itself. [Laughter] {Judith} How did they do that?
{Lorraine} I don't know. And the little man, she said used to come around a lot to fire every morning,

(07:13):
because Government Buildings is old. {Judith} So you were what, 15 ,16?
{Lorraine} 16. {Judith} 16 then? What did it feel like, on your first few days?
{Lorraine} I had a whirly chair, I'd never had a whirly chair! [Laughter]
And I could go to the toilet when I wanted to! [Laughter]
But the worst thing, the very worst thing that first day was, that I'm not very good at mathematics,

(07:39):
in fact I'm terrible, and and at school we'd learnt to centre, centre a job,
you know, a job, centre it in the middle of page, the heading, on a short carriage typewriter.
and when I got to Education it was a long carriage typewriter! [Laughter]
And I couldn't work out how to do it, and I kept pulling it out of the carriage and throwing it in the rubbish bin,
pulling it out, throwing in the rubbish, pulling it out, and I got so much in the wastepaper basket,

(08:02):
that I surreptitiously hid it in my handbag, and at lunch time I went out and threw it in the waste paper basket in Kirkcaldies ladies,
[Laughter] in the ladies room at Kirks. [Laughter] It was, you know... so
{Judith} Excellent, what a wonderful story, of a first day. [Typewriter ding]
{Judith} What was the make of the typewriter? {Lorraine} It was Imperial, yeah, Imperial 66, I think, not quite sure.

(08:27):
And then of course, I was an atrocious Typist, but my boss Mrs Rowley,
who was my most influential woman in my life, after my mother, she put up with me.
Put up with me, with all my mistakes, couldn't be bothered to check, she just... she just said,
'Put it on my desk and I I'll check everything you're doing.' That went on for several years.
{Judith} Really? How many people in the typing pool? {Lorraine} About 12. {Judith} About 12?

(08:50):
And how will you arranged, physically? {Lorraine} In lines with the In Charge up the end facing...
like we were, 4 down there, 4 down there, 4 down there, and her at the other end, facing the door,
sort of thing. And she had the phone, nobody else had a phone, and we never got phones until I was about 50!
[Laughter] And so, every time Mum rang... {Judith} Oh she rang your supervisor? {Lorraine} Yeah, you had to,

(09:14):
everybody, everybody's Mum rang and they had to go through the boss. [Laughter]
{Judith} So not a lot was private? {Lorraine} No, nothing, you could hear the boss say,
'Oh, hello Mrs Williams. How are you today?' [Laughter] {Judith} And how did the work come to you?
{Lorraine} It came... to me particularly? No, no, the boss handed it out. The boss handed it... they all went to the boss,
she had two In and Out trays and an Urgent. And, of course, all the men put it in the Urgent, but she knew how to sort out.

(09:42):
And then when you finished what you were doing, you went up to her, and she handed you the thing.
{Judith} So physically given it? {Lorraine} She handed it, yeah. Because otherwise you'd always take the
double spaced drafts from the bottom, you know. [Laughter] {Judith} Yes, of course.
So the form in which those draft came to you, that was all handwritten? {Lorraine} It was all on dirty big files about that big.
Yeah, and you got one teeny weeny letter attached to the top three lines and say 'I'll take this big job.' And it wasn't really a big job,

(10:07):
it was just on a huge file. [Laughter] {Judith} I see, so there was some sort of like a ring binder?
{Lorraine} No, it was... yes, yes, it was just like a bit of cardboard, with all the letters over the last 20 years,
and then another folder on top... another thing. Yeah, and then the paperclip on top, they put the letter that they wanted.
So that if you, if you didn't quite read of how they spelt Mr Brown's name, you'd look up the file to see how it was spelt.

(10:32):
{Judith} Very handy. And those people who were able to give typing to the, to the supervisor - they were what in the Department?
{Lorraine} They were the... the men! [Laughter] {Judith} They were the men! [Laughter]
{Lorraine} And they didn't have any analytic, analysing sort of people in those days. It was just people who'd worked their way up,

(10:54):
they'd work their way up from the very bottom to being the Director General, or the Director as it was then.
So he knew everything, because he'd worked his way up. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Mina's first Shorthand Typist job with the Department of Internal Affairs in the mid-1970s,
also created lifelong memories. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(11:15):
{Mina| So I worked in the typing pool with these wonderful older women. And I think that that one year,
with their, at the Births, Deaths and Marriages, in Justice, in Stout Street,
was the best working year my whole working life.
The Typist in Charge was a woman called Miss June Marriott and she was lovely. We were seated like we were in a school,

(11:38):
so she had a big, we all had big clunky desks with our typewriters, Olympias and Imperials.
She sat in the front looking at us, we sat in 2 rows of three, looking at her,
And, uhm, the work. Can't remember how the work came in... but because I did shorthand,
I wasn't the same as the others, Miss Marriott, and I did, shared the shorthand.

(12:01):
With... so she looked after the guy who was the Chief Registrar, Births, Deaths and Marriages,
He was also the Chief Electoral Officer... Jack Wright, and then there was a deputy
Mr Archibald and so when Miss Marriott was not there, or was busy, I would go and take shorthand,

(12:25):
from Mr Wright, and we called everybody 'Mr' and 'Miss', we didn't call them by their first name. 137 00:12:29,028 --> 00:12:373,028 And but in the typing pool, that was our little haven. But I shared a room with a woman, Olga,
who was an immigrant child and she'd come over to New Zealand to live, and grown up.
And she was hysterical, she lived out in Titahi Bay and she was absolutely fun.

(12:46):
Nora, Nora... Nola? She was another older lady, I mean these people had children,
And she used to have epileptic fits Nora, and I sat behind her so I used to get to see...
after a while, I realised what little trigger signs to watch... it was her shoulders.
The other next person who was nearer my age and I mean, she was she was a lot of fun as well,

(13:10):
but she was a bit older. It was very... very... well I was a little bit more wilder than her,
now I'm not even that wild, but of course she was very quiet.
And then there were a couple of other people. So it was the absolute funnest,
place to work, Births, Deaths and Marriages. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(13:33):
{Presenter} Lorraine Melvin talks to interviewer, Rachel Brown, about her first typing pool job with the GPO,
the General Post Office, whose Headquarters once stood on the site of what is now the Intercontinental Hotel,
in the still aptly named Post Office Square, in central Wellington. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} ...because in those days, the Post Office was the one of the biggest employers in New Zealand,

(13:56):
and that GPO did everything. So I was working on the top floor in the Staff Division, which was Personnel, 154 00:14:05,088 -->00:14:12,008 so it was the Personnel for the whole of New Zealand, was done out of that... {Rachel} So how many
typing pools would there have been within that building? {Lorraine} Well... {Rachel} Because you were obviously
in the Personnel typing? {Lorraine} We were, we were upstairs and we had to go down 2 flights to the canteen

(14:21):
for our morning and afternoon tea. But I was just thinking about it because they used to do
Births, Deaths and Marriages out of here. They used to do TV license, fishing licenses,
car registration, Telex, Banking... {Rachel} Because that's where you went with your passbook

(14:45):
to get your family benefit. {Lorraine} That was on the ground floor and Telex.
We were friendly with a lot of young women who worked in the Telex,
so that's the telegram, you know the machines that printed out those little white things,
and they got stuck on yellow things. Telegrams. So yeah, it was a huge place, huge place.

(15:12):
So I started out up there, I was interviewed by Joyce and I can't remember Joyce's second name.
She was the supervisor of the Typing Pool up there, had been there for many years.
She seemed like an old woman to me, I was 16, but she was probably, you know, late thirties maybe. [Laughter]

(15:36):
We're all terrified of her, terrified of her, very stern woman. Looked after her girls.
We had a dress code of course, you couldn't wear trousers in them days.
And we had to get there, you could never be late, the sign-in book, you had to sign in.

(15:57):
Was down by her, so she set on a podium. At that end of the big room because the door from
where all these... I just remember my first day of looking out this window, and going,
'I've never seen so many men in one place, apart more football.' Just a sea of men,

(16:19):
sitting at these desks and their bosses all sitting, along this way, facing onto them.
And one poor... one woman, and she was locked in the File Office, all by herself.
[Laughter] It was an exciting time. So Joy sat up the top, she would have interviewed me for the job.

(16:43):
You got the job so long as you agreed that you had to... I'm not 100% sure about how many times,
whether it was two or three times a week, in the morning, about 9 o'clock, all us newbies,
and those of us getting ready for exams, would go into another room, with the Assistant Supervisor,

(17:09):
Pam, and she would read from Hansard and we would have to write it down, in Shorthand.
And then we would have to read back what we'd done, and that was to build our speed.
So we had to get our speed up. {Rachel} What did you get your speed up to?

(17:30):
My Pitman says 80 words a minute. And I passed both Junior Typing.
So, you didn't have a Junior Shorthand, you had Junior Typing and Confused Manuscript
So, I passed those, and then went for my Shorthand Typing,

(17:54):
My typing had got up to about 110, which was my Senior Typist exam.
And it must have been a reasonable speed because by then I was going out taking, you know, shorthand notes, 198 00:18:08,060 -->00:18:15,028 from the chaps out in the room. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(18:15):
{Presenter} Now we hear the Lorraine Melvin, as interviewer talking with Annette, her childhood friend,
about how Annette secured her first job, also with the GPO, before she had even left college. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} When you first went into the GPO, how did you get into that as a school leaver?
How did that happen? {Annette} Well, my memory of that is that it was basically my mum

(18:41):
who just rang around, and thought where would people be, who use typists?
She may have asked around, but it's a really interesting question.
I'm not sure if I have the full answer, but I do know that she rang up
and to see if there was any jobs available, over the Christmas break,
and she had to tell them what my typing experience was.

(19:04):
and I had very good... for the two years I was at College, I had very good results
for all of my tests, so I had a reasonable ability on typing.
And I guess yeah, maybe that was... I mean it's pretty amazing that they took me on. [Typewriter ding sound]
What was the day like? Well you know it was, it was, it was fun times,

(19:28):
because I think just that sense, and because I had never had a sister,
it was kind of nice to have this everyday, have this group of women, and cause we were such
a varied group, of ages and interests, and we had our own little, it wasn't called a locker room,
I don't know what it was called, but we had our own room where we put in, just like you do at school,

(19:51):
you've got your hook, you put your things up in there and you have your smock, and you get that on,
and everyone's chit-chatting, and you know, we're worrying that we've got to get in, and get seated,
because if that clock jumps off 8 o'clock, which is starting time, was 8am,
and you were given the grace of three minutes,
but if the clock move to 5 past 8, it had to be written in the book

(20:16):
and you needed to make it up on a Friday before you left.
That also was treated the same for lunch breaks. So there were sort of like everyone was scurrying,
and if you're, if the train was a bit late, or it was windy and it took a bit longer to walk up to the
the the actual GPO. [Typewriter ding sound]
And I can still remember that noise of all the typewriters going and thinking it was quite a nice lovely noise.

(20:41):
I love those keystrokes, boom, boom, boom, you know, it's like now is this all so nothing.
You know, like we had Miss Watkins, who was the overall, what I would call today's world, the Manager
but I know she she wasn't called a Manager. So she must have been the Supervisor,
but there was also like her 2IC (2nd in charge), but she was never called a 2IC,

(21:04):
but she was also responsible for, probably more for the Juniors, and then there must have been someone
like a Senior, a Senior person who took us to to all our training.
I remember that she came from our Department and she would get, she would say, 'Right, it's time', to go and take us up
and she would do you know that the speech for the shorthand, various things like that.

(21:26):
So there would have been at least three that I can think of who had reasonable sort of positions.
And then I guess you would have been either a Junior, an Intermediate or a Senior typist.
I don't know that we had any female Clerks. They were sort of like that seem to be more of a man's role.

(21:46):
So we were all either typing or doing shorthand typing.
I think I was pretty responsible is the word that comes to my mind, I was pretty responsible.
I didn't mind, I wanted to shirk around a bit, but I was pretty responsible.
And I always think of how long it took me to do my sample folder,

(22:08):
which everybody had to do before they were allowed to do anything official.
You had to have typed up, without making a mistake, so you couldn't rub out,
and that was quite a challenge. And you had to do a sample of every type of internal memo,
or just a casual inter-department thing, all the samples of everything

(22:32):
had to be done, exactly the same. So I probably, I reckon I spent probably
two and a half to three days, getting my folder set up,
I had to get that passed, and signed off, before I was allowed to do anything
that I would consider constructive. {Rose} So that would have been the very first couple of days,
that you started. {Annette} Yes. {Rose} You had to complete that? {Annette} Yep.

(22:56):
Yeah, that had to be signed off and not, no rubbing out. {Rose} Right. {Annette} Well because it was,
it was a specimen. Like it was a it was something, it was official. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Linda tells us about her first Typing Pool job, which she started in 1984
after an early exit from her Secretarial Course at Polytech. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(23:19):
{Linda} I left school after the Sixth Form. My Mum and Dad were quite specific, I had to go to sit my
University Entrance and get Sixth-Form Certificate, even though I didn't want to go to University Entrance.
Because I'd learnt to type, and was good at it, I had just this thing in my mind that I wanted to

(23:39):
be a Secretary. So I, she signed me up to go to Petone Technical Institute
which was a Secretarial Course for a year. So I was doing that, and
then I happened to see some jobs in the paper during our break, about August-September.
And one of them was for the Department of Lands and Survey in the Typing Pool

(24:05):
as a Shorthand Typist.I have no idea what my Mum and Dad thought about me leaving my course early,
and not graduating, but they were sort of, I'd say, sort of supportive of me going for an interview.
My Mum had worked, and utilised, Lands and Survey quite a lot in her own job.
And I went for the interview, and got the job and started there in about September, I think.

(24:28):
{Eth} So what year was that again? {Linda} That's 1984.
So, I was 17, and a half. {Eth} Did you, when you started there, you were straight out of school,
and six months at Polytech, what sort of on-the-job training did you get?
{Linda} Uhm, ha a week induction, of the, what the work that Lands and Survey did,

(24:56):
and how they did things. So we had inside days learning about how they do things.
I don't recall if it, was across the board, it wasn't just a typing type induction.
It was a general one for people from all over the place.
With regards to the typing stuff, was probably, there was just probably templates and standards and procedures.

(25:17):
Probably a big procedures manual, on our desk, truth be known,
a ring binder thing that had the templates and the, you know, three-line spaces after this and indent twice.
[Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Carolyn gives a great recount of the physical layout of the typing pool room and the hierarchy
at the Public Trust in 1966. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(25:39):
{Eth} So talk to me now, a bit about the Typing Pool you went into.
{Carolyn} It was very structured. So at the front of the typing pool, I only remember one window,
which was down our end, but that they may not be so, it's just what I remember.
Because it's always seemed quite light down our end, to the other end.

(26:01):
So at the very front of the typing pool, sat the Senior Shorthand Typist and there were two.
Then there was one Intermediate Shorthand Typist and one Junior, being me.
So they were sitting here, in front of two, we were in rows, in 2 rows,

(26:22):
and the Intermediate sat directly behind one Senior.
And I sat, directly behind one Senior, then behind us sat the Senior Typist,
Behind them sat, there were 4 of them I think,
I can't remember how the rest broke up, behind them, was the Intermediate Typist,
and behind that was the Junior Typists, within the back corner, sat the Supervisor.

(26:44):
{Eth} So she sat behind you? {Carolyn} Everybody. I think of her as sitting on a pedestal,
but she may not have been, or she may have been, just she was a very nice English woman,
really, really lovely. We were very fortunate in having a woman who was fair, helpful,

(27:07):
and very good at organising our rosters and things.
because we had rosters. So for the... maybe I'll go back a wee bit,
so when I got my position there, I was assigned a Junior Manager, who was a male.

(27:33):
He was also fresh out of school, and him and I spent a lot of time discussing social activities. [Laughter]
But we did a little bit of work in-between time, and then there was the Intermediate Managers,
then there was a Senior Manager, the man who'd interviewed me.
What was interesting is that there were no women in the management teams,

(27:59):
it was all men. {Eth} Even boys, straight out of school. {Carolyn} Even boys, straight out of school.
I have very good memories of, if I got stuck on my shorthand, couldn't read it back,
that the either Senior or the Intermediate ones, they would always help me.

(28:21):
and try and help me read back what I had done. But in turn, if they sometimes got stuck,
they would bring to us. So we became a little group just because of the interest in our shorthand.
The abilities of our shorthand, which was really lovely. Now, the other thing
that they did with all the Junior Administration staff, in the typing pool,

(28:43):
so it was actually just referred to as Typing Pool Staff, we were given rosters
to work on the Reception in lunch hours and tea break, on the phones,
which was a switchboard phone, and in the lunch hours and tea breaks in the Stationary Room,

(29:03):
with the Stationary Manager, because they had a man especially assigned to that role.
So that's what he did all day long, was looked after the stationary,
was a big area. And the other thing was that we were given, also given time, with
the... and the the periods with this woman were longer,

(29:26):
looked after the Wills & Testate Division.
So our job there would be to go through newspapers, and check them against the file,
to see if those people who'd died had a Will with the Public Trust.
All paper-based, absolutely nothing at all. So, we had this big ledges,

(29:48):
that we had to go through. And by the time I left there,
they had moved a lot of that, the names, on to microfiche,
or what was the equivalent of the beginning stages of all that.
What I got from that though was a very good rounding an office procedures,

(30:09):
as opposed to just being a Secretary/Shorthand Typist type role.
Which I found useful when I moved on to other, smaller organisations in later life.
{Eth} So how many years did you work at the Public Trust?

(30:29):
{Carolyn} It was only about 18 months. But it had a huge impact on my whole work life,
and how I structured my work life, because there was such a strong structure
and how we managed each day. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(30:50):
{Presenter} Nicky outlines the orientation she experienced after moving from Ruatoria, on the East Coast
to Wellington, in the early 1980s. Sponsored by the Department of Māori Affairs,
this was part of the Māori urban migration, whereby 83% of the Māori population
moved from rural to urban areas over just a 50-year period.

(31:12):
A note for listener, we apologise for the poor audio quality of this next clip. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Nicky} When I came down, Māori Affairs looked after us through Pendennis Hostel,
and then we had to be inducted at the Polytechnic at the time, for a month.
And it was about getting to know Wellington, orienteering about Wellington, the main schools,

(31:33):
where the buses were, the hospital, so that we had to go out on our own, and find these places.
So it was just us getting to know Wellington in general, where things were,
your dentist, your doctors, setting up all those things yourself with the help of Maori Affairs.
And just doing some inducting at the Polytechnic,

(31:54):
and it was there was for about a month, and then they took the hostels out of Wellington,
to Ōtaki, to see other marae, to visit the marae down Island Bay,
to get used to living in the city, and having a marae in the city, Poneke at the old Pā,
off at the bus station, so we visited a lot of marae around the place.
So it was just getting to know Wellington in general. I was 17 when I come down.

(32:19):
Sorry, I lie, I turned 18 in August so I was 18 when I come down.
So it was just all young ones around that age, but I actually was the oldest when I, in the hostel,
when I got to the hostel, so there was about 30 of us in one Hostel, and
and we didn't choose the Hostels, we were placed in the Hostels, and we had a person

(32:41):
that looked after us, and Winnie Laban was the person that looked after our Hostel.
And then, as I got to know the place, I was offered weekend worked for extra money,
to help cook and make breakfasts, there were 2 of us and that's what we did as well as our full-time job. 363 00:32:55,0800 --> 00:33:02,080 We were taught how to apply for jobs, so we applied for all these jobs, and we were just waiting

(33:02):
for it to come back to say you've got an interview here, interview there. They taught us interviewing skills.
All those things, hygiene, how to dress, communication, all that stuff that from the country, you needed to know
to get by in the city. How to catch buses, the trains, everything that we needed to know,
on how to function, was in Wellington. How to make appointments, how to ring up,

(33:24):
how to speak on the phone. Practicing, talking on the phone to each other. Good communication.
How to respond. [Sound of typewriters clacking] 370 00:33:35,0888 --> 00:33:39,000 {Presenter} Securing a job in the Public Service often came down to knowing someone, who could recommend you for a job,
or could advise you of an opportunity. Many typists recruited by the State Service Commission,

(33:45):
which was essentially the Government's employer, then staff were offered opportunities
or sent to departments with there was the highest need.
Louise had assistance in getting her first job thanks to a boarder whom lived in her family home,
and worked for the Post Office. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Louise} When we were living in Lower Hutt, we had quite a big house, and we had 2 boarders there.

(34:07):
Bernie was working at the Post Office and Dad said her... {Judith} That was the in Herd Street? {Louise} Herd Street.
And Dad said to her, is there any chance you could get a job for Louise?
And so she approached the Supervisor there, Pat Heather, she was our boss and and I went in for an interview.
{Judith} Did your mother go with you? {Louise} No I think I went on my own. {Judith} So tell me what you remember
about the interview? {Louise} I don't remember a lot, but it was probably just what I've done with school.

(34:32):
{Judith} Were you nervous? {Louise} No I don't..., I don't remember, probably not. No, I went on my own, I'm pretty sure
I went on my own. I kind of knew Bernie, so I felt... I was, there was someone there, who was a bit familiar to me.
And they were very kind because I was only young. They were all very kind and caring people.
So, yeah, I got the job and I told them at school I was leaving. And for once... they'd never shown any interest me at all,

(34:57):
and the Assistant Principal, was a bit of a dragon, I can't think of a name now, she you know,
had meetings with me left, right and centre, 'Oh Louise stay at school, stay at school. You're silly leaving school, blah, blah, blah,
you're doing well.' I said I'm not going anywhere, it's just a waste of my time as far as I'm concerned here.
And I said, no, no, I'm leaving, I've got a job lined up, I'm going, and that's it.

(35:17):
So, I left there, I think I left the day after my 15th birthday. And I started at, I started at,
the Post Office on 6th of July 1970. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Michelle remembers how both her parents came along to her interview, for her first public service job,
a Typist role with the Health Department. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(35:39):
{Judith} So it was early 70s? {Michelle} Yes, I knew I always wanted to do typing, loved typing.
{Judith} Why did you think that? {Michelle} I just loved it, I just loved it, even you know we had the old manual typewriters
with the apron that we used to wear. And I just knew I thought 'That's what I want to do. I want to type.'
I did not specifically want to be in the Typing Pool but I just I wanted to be a Secretary. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do.
And so I thought 'Okay I'll do that.' Put my name down, they didn't have enough girls, or people... girls then, for the class,

(36:05):
so they canceled it. So I thought 'Oh well when I leave school', because I only had I think it was, I left the next year.
I'll do shorthand in Night School. Well that never happened did it? Then they had Teeline, that's right.
I did it... {Judith} You wouldn't have been Pitman's, you could do Teeline?
{Michelle} Yes. Well there was no Pitman shorthand, because I definitely wasn't going to go to Night School after leaving school.

(36:29):
I thought, 'No, I've got better things to do in my evenings.'
And then I bought the Teeline book, I must have signed up for Teeline. I still have the book,
and I don't know what the heck to do. So then I left school, I went for quite a lot, a hell of a lot of interviews,
a lot of interviews and I went for an interview at an... {Judith} Why did you go to such a lot of interviews?

(36:52):
{Michelle} No one.. well I sent all my CV (Curriculum Vitae or Resume) out, but no one, it was just,
It was just, yeah, just no interest. {Judith} This year, what year was this?
{Michelle} 1979, and then I got an interview at a Law Firm, and
an interview at the Health Department for the Typing Pool, you see? So I went to the Law Firm,
and came to the interview at the Health Department, my parents came with me. {Judith} Both parents?

(37:15):
{Michelle} Yep, both parents. {Judith} Marvellous. {Michelle} I was 19 ,18, must have been 18.
And I can remember it, because they have these long corridors, and they had these like bench seats all along
the side, and we set, Mum and Dad, and I sat there, and I went into the interview, they didn't come in with me,
but they went. But the Supervising Typist-in-Charge that interviewed me was Mary Delaney,

(37:39):
and she was so impressed that my parents had come. And I think back now and I think 'it didn't bother me'.
You know, it was... whereas now, I think if I'd said to my daughters, 'Would you like Dad and I to come with you?'
They're probably say 'No thanks, I'm all right.' I thought well, hello, I'm still living at home at 19 so...
{Judith} Lots of times Mothers went, but you're the first person we've actually met so far, whose parents, both parents,

(38:02):
{Michelle} Oh yes, no Dad has to be in. So I'd actually got an offer from the Law Firm, and
an offer from the Health Department, and I can remember going home and saying to Dad,
'Oh Dad, now I've got two jobs, which one do I choose?'
And he goes, 'Which one's paying the most?' I said 'Health Department'. 'There you go', then he says,
"Off you go.' {Judith} So it wasn't because it was a Government job? {Michelle} Nope. {Judith} It was the money.

(38:24):
{Michelle} Nope, it was just the money, it was the pay. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Alison entered the workforce in the early 80s, and by this time jobs were harder to obtain,
so school leavers, and those graduating from Polytech courses, had to send out resumes or CVs,
and hope they were granted an interview. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(38:45):
{Judith} You've graduated with a...? {Alison} A Diploma in Secretarial Studies, yup. {Judith} And then what happened?
Then.. {Judith} What year was at that? {Alison} It was 82, 1982. Yeah, and then I started looking for work,
I wrote, what felt like at the time, a million letters and sent off a million CVs, and

(39:07):
I'd get a 'Thanks, but no thanks' letter in the post.
{Judith} Were you applying for public and private, or both? {Alison} Uhm... private at the time.
It was, I'd see something advertised, so I would apply and then my Dad's office lady said,
'Why don't you apply to the State Services Commission?' and it's like, oh didn't even know there was such a thing

(39:28):
as the State Services Commission! So I... figured that out and I applied to the
State Services Commission and then within, oh literally a week or so,
I'd got a phone call saying that there was a position at Housing Corporation, in the Typing Pool,
and would I go for an interview? So I went for the interview, which was just at the building just across the way here,

(39:53):
and I remember it vividly, old Public Service men of the time... imagine? {Judith} I can imagine.
{Alison} Yeah, this isn't this tiny, wee office and there was three of them sitting there,
{Judith} Heavy. {Alison} It was really heavy going.
Betty Horn, who was my Manager, with three of them, interviewed me.
And... {Judith} Were you nervous? {Alison} Oh totally... very, very nervous.

(40:15):
{Judith} And did your Mother didn't go with you? {Alison} She sat in the car outside, waited for me.
[Laughter] She sat in the car outside the building and waited for me. {Judith} How long did the interview take?
{Alison} Oh, an hour maybe, maybe not even that long. And at the end of the interview,
they said, 'Can you start next Monday?' This was like, Wednesday or Thursday of that week,

(40:37):
and they said, at the end of the interview, could I start next Monday? No ref(erence) checks,
No, didn't check my referees, nothing. They just looked at my... the Manager Betty Horn, Manager of the Typing Pool,
she looked at all my certificates, and said 'When can you start? How about next Monday?' and I was like...
so I go back downstairs, after the interview, and get in the car, and Mum goes 'How did it go?'

(40:58):
And I said, 'I start Monday.' [Laughter] {Judith} Do you remember the salary? {Alison} Ten thousand dollars.
I've still got my first payslip. {Judith} Oh if you've got a photocopy that that would be... {Alison} Somewhere.
{Judith} Because we're really interested in what the starting rates were. {Alison} Yeah, ten thousand, just over ten thousand dollars.
Yeah, and I thought I was in heaven, all that money. {Judith} Did you belong to the union? {Alison} Yes, right from day one.

(41:21):
{Judith} PSA? {Alison} PSA, yup. And I joined the Public Service Investment Society, you could open a bank account,
with the PSIS, still bank with them. {Judith} Who encouraged you to do those things? Or did you just ...
{Alison} It was sort of all in your starting package. There was, you've got this package of paperwork when you started.
And there was just all these forms and you just filled them all out.

(41:42):
And, and yeah, joined the Union, I joined the PSIS. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Entering the workforce in 1986, Robin started out in a Clerical role with the Ministry of Energy
with her heart set on eventually securing a role in a Typing Pool. By this era of Public Service,

(42:03):
Induction Programmes were in place to assist new staff. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So once you're done your Sixth Form Certificate and UE, what did you feel... were your options?
{Robin} I wanted to be a librarian. {Eth} Yeah? {Robin} Because I love books!
I loved English. And I had my part-time jobs, when I was at school, were in the Library.

(42:24):
And I also did, straight after Sixth Form, I did a stint at the National Library in Christchurch,
a school holiday job. And, unfortunately, you needed University Entrance to get into Library school,

(42:45):
and I obviously wasn't bright enough, so that that subject, that that kind of went by the by,
In probably round about September of my last year in High School there was
an advertisement in the newspaper, and the Ministry of Energy were advertising for clerical cadets.

(43:08):
And my partner was working for them, for the Electricity Division, at the same time and he said,
you know, it's a good organisation to work for. Why don't you apply?
And they were being, there was four positions, being offered, that was there intake, 478 00:43:27048 --> 00:43:34,060 There were some kind of Government requirement that they had to take 4 school leavers each year,

(43:34):
and I applied for a position, and I got it. So I actually had a job before I left school.
That was my first job, so I left school having... knowing that in February of the year after I left school, I had a job,
to go to. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Eth} So you've started at your new job. {Robin} Yes. {Eth} Do you have any memory of that first day?

(44:00):
{Robin} I'm nervous. Really, really nervous, but good in a way, that I had 4 other school leavers who were started
on exactly the same day, and we're all pretty much feeling, nervous.
But after I think probably the second day, we, we actually became quite a tight unit.

(44:26):
There was a, was three, three girls and two guys. And we had induction,
quite a... an extensive induction process, where we probably spent three days,
visiting different parts of the organisation. And I think we also had a field trip to Lake Coleridge.

(44:50):
{Eth} Fabulous. {Robin} To visit a Power Station, to actually see what a Power Station looks like,
and to some of that to go out to the little substations as well.
And that was good, because it put into context what you were doing and who you're doing it for,
the other people who weren't working in the office, like that hands-on people, the power station

(45:12):
supervisors, and the Fitters and Turners, and the Mechanics, and all those technical people that fix...
{Eth} And were you the only one? So there were five of you? {Robin} There was five of us.
{Eth} Yeah, so you were the only ones on that induction, or did they have other people joining?
{Robin} No, there was just a special induction, for us newbies.

(45:32):
{Eth} Yeah, so you were called clerical? {Robin} Yes, we were definitely clerical, and I do actually remember,
one of the things I do remember in my interview, was whether I would be able to go into the typing pool,
because I wanted to type, and the, my Supervisor at the time, you won't have the opportunity to go into the typing pool,

(45:58):
but that could come a little bit later, but these were definitely clerical positions,
there would be no typing involved. {Eth} So they were clearly separate roles?
{Robin} Yep. So the clerks were attached to Departments and there was a separate Typing Pool. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Just 17 years old, Friday started work at the Department of Social Welfare as a Staff Typist,

(46:23):
in 1987. It was certainly unusual to be a male typist let alone a young Māori man,
but Friday's skills ensured he was soon fast tracked through the ranks. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Judith} So what was it like, tell me about what the office was like? And what the setup was?
{Friday} Yep, so in the typing pool, there was about 25 of us, it was a huge team. {Judith} That was a very big group.

(46:44):
Yeah, so... {Judith} How as the room laid out? {Friday} So when you walked in there were just desks in a row,
{Judith} Like school? {Friday} Like school, yeah so we did all the typing for the office plus we also did data entry,
as well. {Judith} Really? {Friday} Uhm and we also did, what they called wordprocessing as well.

(47:10):
{Judith} Oh you did that then? Interesting.
{Friday} So in terms of the... {Judith} And data entry is so tricky. Did you find that hard?
{Friday} I did, but of course, we had to... I sort of remember that in the Staff Typist role, that was all we did,
for the first six months, yeah. {Judith} So you quickly got the hang of it. {Friday} Yeah.

(47:33):
{Judith} And what was the general culture like in the, in the Pool? Was it friendly, was it sociable?
{Friday} Oh it really was. {Judith} Did the Supervising Typist sat ahead of the room?
{Friday} Yes. Yes, and our Supervising Typist-in-Charge, she had her own office.
{Judith} And she was the one who'd interviewed anyway? {Friday} Yep. {Judith} She had her own office?
{Friday} She did. {Judith} And the work came to you, where did it come from... how did it... physically get to you?

(47:55):
{Friday} Right, okay, so in terms of the structure of the Typing Pool, we had our Supervising Typist-in-Charge,
Supervising Typists, and then we had about six or seven Senior Typists,
and then we had Staff Typists after that. So we were kind of put into little pods,
then looked after by the Senior Typists, who allocated the work to us.

(48:17):
{Judith} So she literally brought it... how did it, what form did it come, was it documents?
{Friday} It was all handwritten. {Judith} All handwritten? {Friday} All handwritten material, yes, yes.
{Judith} So you could tell which person had written the report. {Friday} Yep, so most of the work that we did was mainly letters,
going out to, I think beneficiaries, because it was, back then it was all the benefits.

(48:40):
{Judith} Of course, yes. {Friday} Yeah, so. {Judith} How did you learn a school or did you learn then, the formatting,
and the proper layout of letters, or had you done all that at school? {Friday} I did that at school.
{Judith} You'd done... so you... {Friday} I did all of that at school, yes, yes. {Judith} Who else were in the pool, was it women?
{Friday} It was. {Judith} Were you the only man? {Friday} I was. {Judith} And how did they treat you?
{Friday} Just like one of the girls. [Laughter] Yeah, I think we got on really.. extremely well.

(49:05):
There was quite a few of the Staff Typists were around the 17, 18, 19 year old age. {Judith} Really? {Friday} Yeah.
{Judith} Very much a young peoples... {Friday} We were actually, even the Senior Typists, they would have been in their mid to late 20s.

(49:26):
So, also our Senior-Typist-in-Charge, who was, well I thought she was old then! {Judith} She was probably 45. {Friday} Yeah, yeah. [Laughter]
Yeah... in terms of the role, I still remember, because they knew that I did shorthand as well, there probably would have been

(49:49):
about, six or seven of us which did shorthand, in the Typing Pool. So each day the staff, if they wanted... because we actually
used to go down to the staff and they would dictate letters to us... we went to them. {Judith} Interesting. {Friday} Yeah.
{Judith} So they would be management? Who were... they were people who were doing reporting or? {Friday} No,

(50:14):
they were just, like the staff, actually like writing letters to the clients. {Judith} So ordinary staff members? {Friday} Yup, yup,
ordinary staff members, yeah. {Judith} And they did dictaphone or you took it... {Friday} No we took it in shorthand,
we took it in shorthand, we didn't have dictaphones back then. {Judith} No. {Friday} No, no. {Judith} They came in later.
{Friday} Yeah, yeah. Yeah so it would have been about a year and a half later, doing the Staff Typist role, when I got a...

(50:39):
got promoted to a Senior Typist role. {Judith} By this time you're about 19. {Friday} 19, 20... I thought 'Me?' {Judith} That's fantastic. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Eleanore was a budding concert pianist, who worked for the Ministry of Education, starting out an Auckland
before transferring to Wellington when her parents decided to move in the mid-1950s. [Sound of typewriter carriage return]

(51:04):
{Eleanore} So Mum and Dad moved to Wellington and I'd been working one year in the Education Department,
and continuing with my music, which had got much harder once, I had to leave the convent.
And I had to... it just got harder, and of course working the full days, and
then we didn't get paid very well, so, you know is also managing your money to pay for the music lessons.

(51:29):
And then Mum and... Dad got a transfer to Wellington, I was 16.
When I started, I was still 16, we shifted in November, and in those days you went with your parents.
You just didn't even consider staying behind in Auckland, in a flat for something.
And I did stay behind for a month or so, to sit my music exam.

(51:51):
But anyway, we made the shift and then they agreed that I could shift from Education Auckland to Education Wellington.
And because in Auckland I had like 10 Departments and, as a shorthand typist
you went from one department to the next, each month.
So I had already been there 11 months, so I knew all the workings of the Education Department.

(52:12):
{Judith} So they circulated you around the department? Can we just go back to how you got that job in the first place?
{Eleanore} I decided was leaving school and so I thought working in the Public Service, they got paid a little bit more
than some of the other places. And it was a good, in those days, it was a steady job, you wouldn't be put out of it,
in a hurry. And I just applied to the State Services... I think Mum applied for me. [Laughter]

(52:38):
I don't think I even applied for myself, and I can't remember whether I even got an interview.
{Judith} Oh really? {Eleanore} Well you went with your mother. {Judith} Yes, you did. {Eleanore} Yes,
and so... {Judith} So you would have gone and met somebody? {Eleanore} I must have done, yes and I was given two places,
I could... was very quick interview, and they gave me two choices of places.
They were desperate I think for Shorthand Typists and as I already had a high speed, uhm they...

(53:03):
{Judith} And you were 15? {Eleanore} Yes, yes.. yes. And so I turned 16 the day after I started work.
{Judith} And which of the two did you choose? {Eleanore} I chose to go to Education.
Because I thought it would... {Judith} What was the other one? {Eleanore} I have no idea, can't remember now,
something like Forestry I think. {Judith} And you chose Education because? {Eleanore} Well I thought it sounded more interesting.[Sound of typewriters clacking]

(53:26):
{Presenter} To end our Episode 3, we have to hear Leigh's unforgettable interview at the
Department of Social Welfare in Christchurch in the late 70s. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Leigh} So I applied for this job and day came for this interview... so this is the story.
So I had been... I'd actually been up in Auckland and visiting my grandmother and we've gone to town,

(53:47):
and I'd bought this beautiful suit, and it was a beautiful pleated tartan skirt, just down to, maybe just passed the knee,
it was green, it was sort of green, and cream, and brown, really lovely tartan skirt,
and it had a matching waistcoat, that was really nicely tailored, and really nice covered buttons.
It was, it was just lovely. And that on its own, was a really nice outfit, nice cream blouse

(54:12):
underneath, but they had this lovely cream green just plain green jacket. Part of the green and the jacket.
And so I decided for this interview I would... {Judith} And the shoes. {Leigh} And the shoes,
I had lovely brown shoes, high-heeled, stiletto-y shoes, lovely.
Anyway so I biked up, yeah biked, {Judith} In your stiletto heels. {Leigh} Yep, yep.

(54:32):
So then as I got to... Cathedral Square, I parked my bike around behind the BNZ Bank,
put my shoes on and wandered around Cathedral Square, my friend was there to meet me.
And so I walking towards her and she's, you know, she's got this beaming smile on your face and then all of a sudden,
just like in slow motion, her face is going from this beaming smile to now not smiling and face sinking,

(54:57):
And I'm going 'What's the matter?' And 'Aw' she said 'I don't believe it,
Miss Donovan's got exactly the same suit on as you have, but her's is pink!' [Laughter]
'Her's is dusky pink.' [Laughter]
And I went 'Well, there's no time for me to go home now, I'm on my bike's around the back.'
So you know my mouth's gone all dry my throat's gone all dry. {Judith} Are you nervous or something?

(55:20):
{Leigh} Yeah, 18 or 19 and just, anything you know, you just well okay, you know
I can't go in there in my petticoat, uhm sort of thing so, you know I'm as nervous enough
as it was going for the interview, so now I'm even more nervous. And so then so we get in the lift,
and we go up to the interview, up to the interview room and I had to meet the people

(55:40):
that were going to be interviewing, and then Miss Donovan walks in, and she's, and she's tall and slender,
and she's got the hairdo. She had beautiful, you know, beautiful set hair.
She'd have her here set every day, or just about every day, or every other day. and you
and you know, she's just looking immaculate in this beautiful suit, and I'm looking, you know, just as stunning
but just a bit shorter, and, in my suit and I just said, all I could say to her was

(56:05):
We've got a great choice of clothes. [Laughter] And it's all I could say.
And so we sat down for the interview and the smirk on the, the smirk on the
Assistant Director of Benefits and Pension's face, I think it was his title was, 613 00:56:2,080 --> 00:56:33,088 was just, I can still see his face today. {Judith} That's the most wonderful story, of how you entered the Public Service. [Laughter]

(56:30):
{Leigh} Yeah. So then I... so I got the job. I did get the job. {Judith} Of course you got the job.[Sound of typewriters clacking]
Ngā mihi nui, a big thank you to our interviewees for sharing their stories and experiences of how
they got those first jobs in the typing pool. And what those first few days or weeks was like. coming
Coming up next is Episode, Part 2 in the Life in the Typing Pool. This time focusing on the day-to-day operations.

(56:54):
How work was submitted, distributed, quality assured, and returned.
What roles existed within the typing pool and some stories to describe the social aspects
of the different eras. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
The Keystrokes per Minute Project was made possible by funding support from the Ministry of Culture and Heritage,
and the Public Services Commission. Listeners can find out more about the project by visiting website www.storycollective.nz

(57:20):
The soundtrack was kindly provided by permission from the Boston Typewriter Orchestra, find their music and merchandise
on bandcamp.com. Thanks for listening. [Typewriter ding sound]