Episode 4 Life in the Typing Pool Part 2

In this episode we hear stories about the day-to-day operations of the typing pool, the physical layout, how the work was submitted, normally via a supervisor or head typist; how it was then distributed to the typists, whose job it was to ensure quality, and how documents were returned to the initiator.  We will also learn some of the ingenious ‘tricks of the trades’ that typists used to cover up any mistakes.

We end this episode with something different, an in-studio interview with NZ writer & poet, Maggie Rainey-Smith.

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Find transcripts and more at www.storycollective.nz 

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This podcast is only made possible thanks to the work of the Keystrokes Oral History Project, find out more at www.storycollective.nz/background

Funding support from the Public Services Commission (NZ) and the Ministry of Culture and Heritage (NZ). 

Soundtrack with permission and thanks from The Boston Typewriter Orchestra, find their music on bandcamp.com

© Copyright 2017 Meg Melvin as StorycollectiveNZ

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Storycollective, untold stories by unheard voices.
Keystrokes per Minute, a limited series podcast about the women of the New Zealand Public Service
Typing Pools from 1945 til the present day.
{Presenter} Haere mai, welcome to Episode 4 Life in the Typing Pool, Part 2.

(00:23):
In this episode we hear stories about the day-to-day operations of the typing pool. The physical layout,
how the work was submitted, normally via a supervisor or head typist, how it was then distributed to the typists,
whose job it was to ensure quality, and how documents were returned to the initiator.
We also learn that there were tricks of the trade or what we might call today a hack, for how to manage

(00:45):
the dilemma of correcting mistakes and wrangling troublesome technology like carbon paper,
or stencils for the Gestetner, an early photocopier, that was by all accounts,
quite a messy affair. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
A note about technology - most of the interviewees in this episode will talk about the kind of typewriter
that they were using during their era. We will cover the evolution and impact of typewriter technology and the

(01:11):
introduction of computers in a separate episode, later in the series.
However, the general trajectory was that typists used manual typewriters into the late 1960s,
then electronic or electric typewriters start to appear, and were in use until the late 1980s.
When word-processors are then introduced and eventually by the mid-1990s, there are very

(01:33):
few typewriters still in use. The electronic golf ball typewriter signalled a major shift in speed and
flexibility, as the separate key strikers were replaced with a spinning ball of metal,
which was interchangeable. So that typists could now use symbols like macrons
over individual letters or construct complex mathematical equations. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(01:54):
Listeners can see examples of different typewriters on the Storycollective website or
StorycollectiveNZ Instagram. Also peppered throughout this episode interviewees, regale us
with the humorous anecdotes about the characters found inside, and outside the typing room.
And we end the episode with something a bit different, an in-studio interview with New Zealand writer and poet

(02:15):
Maggie Rainy Smith. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
During Mary Dooley's career, she progressed through the ranks of Senior Shorthand Typist, Head Typist,
and eventually the Manager of Typing Services. In this clip she talks the Lorraine Melvin about some
of the typing pools she has managed, the number of staff, the different roles within the typing pool,

(02:35):
and the enormous variety of work undertaken. This period spans from the 1950s to the mid-1970s.[Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} So the position, you were Head Typist, will you the Supervisor? Did you...?
{Mary} Supervisory position yes. For six years. {Lorraine} Organising?
{Mary} Yes, organising work, allocating the jobs to the various people in the typing pool. You know the way

(02:58):
that the system worked was, if the person was new, they had to be, everything had to be shown,
to them, on how to do things, and you know I always made sure that I used to
say to them, 'Look when you were at school, if you marked out of 100 and you got 50,
you got a pass, here it's got to be 100 all the time. [Laughter]
{Lorraine} You were tough. {Mary} I was very strict! [Laughter] I didn't want to send out

(03:22):
anything with bad spelling or grammar or whatever. {Lorraine} That was important? {Mary} Yes.
{Lorraine} That was a graded role? {Mary} Yes is was graded. {Lorraine} It was the beginning of you...
{Mary} Senior Typist, Senior Shorthand Typist was the first grade I got, above Basic grade,
you could not be appointed to that grade, the Senior Shorthand Typist, unless you had your senior exam,

(03:43):
but the year after I got my senior exam, they changed the rules and you could go up, by experience. [Typewriter ding sound]
But I was going to say that in Social Welfare, we had a... you know, is it was a staff of 11,
and so that was over, that was how it was run, grade higher than District Health.

(04:04):
And the Labour Department had a staff of 22 and that was a,
you know much bigger. Also had a lot of process work we'd handled,
the State Services Appeal Board and we had, you know, all sorts, immigration
applications and huge amount to do, absolutely piles and piles of files,

(04:29):
would come in, day in, day out, so much so that they never fit on the tables.
You had to take the work off, you had to stack them on the floor,
as well, and then work your way through. It was like drowning in paper.
{Lorraine} So you, again, supervising that department? {Mary} Yes.
{Lorraine} So you were responsible for the stack? {Mary} I was, yeah and being placed,

(04:50):
and also the allocation of the various jobs that had to be done. And uh...
{Lorraine} I mean that's a big room to hold all those... {Mary} Well they weren't all in the same room,
most of them were, it was like a factory. {Lorraine} So were they all in desks?
{Mary} Rows, yes, like in, like the main Typing Pool. I suppose it would have had about 14,

(05:13):
or 15 people in it. Then there was the Accounts Clerk working on Accounts Section.
And then there was... there were positions like the Arbitration Court, the Compensation Court,
they had positions, and they were related to Labour Department. You see that way they all came under
Labour Department. And if those people left, or needed replacement, or whatever,

(05:34):
you had to find a person to do that job. {Lorraine} So if you were interviewing?
{Mary} Oh yes, yes as well. But as well as that, you like, in conjunction with
the Labour Department, it was in conjunction with the Administration Officer,
and that sort of thing. But you would find the right person.You could do it and then take

(05:54):
it to the Admin Officer and say... so. {Lorraine} And would these people come from
internal or? {Mary} No, they come in from outside and often they'd come as from being
Judges Associate or something like that. {Lorraine} Right. {Mary} There were 3 main
main Typing Pools. The Labour Department, was one main typing pool, and

(06:16):
then there was these satellite offices, that we originally talked about, and work was very
varied, we covered Unemployment, Factory Inspectorate, Immigration Division,
Research and the Council for Women, and the Training within Industry,
Legal Division and there was a lot of work to do with the Diplomatic bag.

(06:41):
You know, from immigration applications to come to New Zealand,
for Visas and stuff like that. And the Appeal Board, I think I mentioned.
This was 19...1964, May '64 to May '75.
I work in Labour Department, that was 11 years. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(07:03):
{Presenter} Many interviewees told us about having a disk file, or formatting guideline,
that they used to ensure they followed the correct way to set out letters and documents,
In this clip Lorraine tells us about the Rules for Typists which was created by her boss,
the Head Typist at the Ministry of Education, which ran to 50 Pages or more,
of instructions about document formats and the correct ways to address Parliamentarians etc.

(07:27):
Then Lorraine explains the difficulties of dealing with a ministerial,
one of the more important tasks in a Government typing pool, and in which
she covers some of the tricks of the trade in how to cover up mistakes. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} My boss put out this marvellous book, Rules for Typists, and the men loved it so much they kept
coming to her and asking for copies of it. It told you everything, it told you how to address Mayors,

(07:50):
it told you how to spell certain words that people sort of got muddled up with. I remember
'mileage', she spelled it... we had to spell it as M, I, L, A, G, E. {Judith} Oh that's controversial.
{Lorraine} Without the 'e'. And the newspapers picked up on the book somehow, and they said
'At the Education Department, they're told they've got to do milage instead of mileage. [Laughter]
{Judith} Do you remember what year that was? {Lorraine} Oh every year she put it out.

(08:13):
And I followed with it, when I got to be her job. It was how to address parliamentarians, when you're writing to them,
everything. Who actually was in Parliament, who was in the Opposition. It had everything in this book.
{Judith} I was a really, really full manual? {Lorraine} Yeah. As I said all the men wanted it as well, they all came
and asked for their copy please. It took us a long time because we had to collate it as well,

(08:37):
The Junior Typist always got to collate it, we stood in the corridor at Government buildings and put all
the papers on a long cabinet, and... and then we had to collate... collate our books.
One page, there would be about 50 pages in it and we'd make about 100 books.
Yeah, Junior's always got the collating job. {Judith} And how were they bound? How were they...

(08:59):
{Lorraine} Just... {Judith} Were they A4 or what? {Lorraine} Yeah, A4, big staples I think.
{Judith} Big staples, with covers? {Lorraine} Yeah, she put pink covers on. [Laughter]
I can't remember what they're called, Typists Book, Typists Manual, I can't remember. Education Department.
{Judith} Education Department yes. {Lorraine} And then when they changed it, of course, they changed all...

(09:22):
it used to be 'yours sincerely', and everything on the right hand side. Dear so-and-so and yours sincerely,
and then they change everything to the left hand side. Because it would, they got... they did a survey in England
where they guaranteed it saved something like 10% of the Typist's time. [Audible sigh]
{Judith} the notion of a study on how to lay out your letter? {Lorraine} Yes, so everything was put on the left hand side,
and on the very first day, we moved over, this man came charging through, 'Who's the left-handed typist!' [Laughter][Typewriter ding sound]

(09:47):
And the Ministerials of course, you weren't allowed to rub out. We were not allowed to rub out at all on a Ministerial
and we must... {Judith} Tell me about that, just talk about it. {Lorraine} Okay, it's a letter that comes across from the
Minister's Office that somebody's written for the Minister, and he's going to sign it. And and we had to type it out.
And if it was to his constituent, it had to be done instantly, you had to drop everything. But if it's just an ordinary one,

(10:10):
that it could take the Urgent Normal, you know, Urgent pile and, but you were not allowed to make a mistake.
Not 1 mistake and I don't know how many times typists would go 'Ughhh!' and pull it, and throw it in the rubbish bin,
and start again, and start again. And of course if the men decide to change one word, you had to go through it
all again and they got in a temper because that change 'the' to 'to' but you had to do it again.

(10:32):
And then you make 30 more mistakes. Do it again, again and again. {Judith} Oh the stress of that?
{Lorraine} Yeah, but later on, I became the greatest person in the Pool for rubbing out without anyone knowing. [Laughter]
On Ministerials... I don't know, I was just brilliant at it. {Judith} It wasn't twink? (correcting fluid).
{Lorraine} No, it wasn't twink, it was a rub out. You have to put an envelope behind, in between the carbon,

(10:53):
and the...the white paper, and then rub and then you put the envelope behind the next piece of paper.
So if it's 1 plus 9 or something, and you had to keep moving the envelope behind each carbon paper,
so that you could rub out. [Laughter] {Judith} What else, what other sorts of tricks of the trade like that?
{Lorraine} Well every Friday our boss made us clean the machines, you see? So you have to pick out the dirt that was

(11:16):
in the 'e's or the 'a's or whatever, and you had to clean the carriage. {Judith} So you had to pick them out, literally pick...
{Lorraine} Yeah you got a paper clip, broke it in half sort of thing and then you picked out the dirt that was in the
'e' or the 'a'. {Judith} Cause the ink sort to filled up...the spaces. {Lorraine} Yeah.. {Judith} The ribbon. {Lorraine} Yeah.
You see, what you'd did, in the crest... in the crest you put your initials on stencil, so that your initials went all the way

(11:42):
through, so they knew which typist it was, so they could take it back to the typist. And you did that in ordinary letters
as well, you put your initials through the crest. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} Just a note for listeners - many of the interviewees mention the use of carbon copies, this relates to the
the copying mechanism of the era. Carbon paper was sandwiched between the sheet of letterhead at the front,

(12:02):
and the coloured piece of plain paper at the back. This enabled the letterhead to be sent to the recipient,
and a copy to be placed into a file. Often there was a need for multiple copies, just the way Lorraine described
in her clip, that Ministerials required one letterhead and nine copies, or 1 plus 9. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(12:23):
One of the main functions of the Births, Deaths and Marriages Department was issuing Birth Certificates,
which required a bit of investigative work from staff. In this clip Mina talks about the different registers
that existed in the '70s and describes some of the characters inside, and alongside, the typing pool. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Mina} So I did all the shorthand, in that because they, that group of people would get...

(12:49):
when they got the certificate, there was a lot of advisers in there, who would deal with the
tricky questions that people would write their letters in.
And so the Typing Pool had basically cyclic styled, we had a Gestetner,
which we, they were all sort of standard forms, for someone that said,
'Yes, we've got your Certificate, here it is'. 'No, we haven't got your Certificate.

(13:11):
We need this more information or whatever'. In the other room... so the year that I was there,
Māori had been given.. ah Māori births didn't have to be registered until about, 19... I think it was about 1916. 150 00:13:27,088 --> 00:13:36,080 So when I started there in 1976, a lot of Māori people were writing in to get their Birth Certificates,

(13:36):
so they could get their super (Superannuation}. And so, often, very often, their births were not registered
because they're in the middle of nowhere, they had to go...
they weren't going to traipse all the way to a Post Office or whatever, to register it.
,They just didn't. So there was, at that stage, there was always a lot of, a lot of shorthand to keep me busy.

(13:57):
Uhm, and so they also, the other thing they had was, they had, registers.. they had Māori registers,
and anybody else. So for example, I've got twin brothers, I've got one brother registered on the Māori register,
and the other one on the non... on the general one.
So you had to.. Mr Wolf, well part of his job was to... when they filled, people filled out a form,

(14:25):
they highlighted names, you could get letters with about 4 or 5 names on it.
You never knew which... quite often you'd get a Certificate and it wasn't any of them.
So, it was like, trying to... sort a puzzle. [Typewriter ding sound]
Yeah, we socialised, sort of within, like we didn't go home to each others' homes,
and things like that, but, you know, we'd go out together, but I think, so it was like a big family.

(14:51):
The other thing too, was, it was at the time of Carmen {NZ's first Drag Queen & the name of a nightclub},
so we were in a little room but there was a big area outside our door,
Where customers would come to a counter, they would ask for...
they'd fill out their form for their relevant Certificates they wanted,
and they were two young guys there. Now one of them was this Robert, who was a Pākēhā boy,

(15:14):
who needed a kick up his pants, and the other one was a Samoan guy...
who was Miss Augustine, the Fire Dancer at Carmen's at night,
but was just 'August' during the day. And of course Robert used to give August a hard time,
and August would come running into the Typing Pool, hide behind the door, and cry
because Robert was, you know, picking on him. So Olga go would go out, sort Robert out. [Laughter]

(15:40):
We'd all be standing there listening, sort him out and tell him to pull his head in,
and he'd come in and we'd sort it. And then the other thing was, there was another group
which was behind this great, big, vaulted door, it was a big area where all the books...
all the Birth, Death and Marriage Certificates were held, they were in these great big books,
it was a big area. They were two typists in there and they typed the Certificates,

(16:05):
and one was a lady from Hong Kong, Grace, who, in her own self was very entertaining,
and I never ever remembered who the second person was, it was always about Grace.
And we used to have Mr Wolf. I was very naughty, I'd always go up and say, 'What's the time Mr Wolf?' 183 00:16:22,0880 --> 00:16:30,020 And he'd go '2.30'. 'Thank you.' [Laughter] And tootle back to my typing pool!

(16:30):
We just had a lot of fun. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Working for only a short spell in the Police HQ Typing Pool, Beverley was not impressed
with the volume of urgent work. However, she did seem to enjoy the unique position of being sent
out to supervise Police Officers taking their typing exams. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(16:50):
A message for listeners; Beverly has unfortunately died since the recording of her interview in 2018.
So, the Research team is really glad to have captured her work history and voice for this podcast,
and as part of the materials submitted to the National Library Archive. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Judith} So late '69 you went to Wellington? {Beverley} Yes, til '75. {Judith} Til '75.

(17:12):
Okay did you go to a job, or did you go and then find a job? {Beverley} No I went there and
found a job at Police Headquarters, that's when I found the one at Police Headquarters in the Typing Pool.
{Judith} Where was Police Headquarters then? {Beverley} Brandon Street. {Judith} Brandon Street, okay.
{Beverley} Well, I was going to go as a Receptionist, up on one of the top floors where, uhm, the Commissioner

(17:35):
n' that was. But they said, well will put you in the Typing Pool at the moment, just to get a feel of 197 00:17:40,0880 --> 00:17:47,040 the place... well I never ever got upstairs [Laughter] I never ever got up there.
Well anyway, I lasted til July, the next year. I lasted, then I thought I've had enough
of this, all this work here, and everything's Urgent. And we had three baskets

(18:01):
of work and everything... like I said, you had to take from the bottom of the pile...
and you didn't know what it was going to be, and it could be 20 pages of dog training.
{Judith} Oh glory. {Beverley} And then you had that when you finish, they had to go to the
bottom again. And find another 20 pages of something... with... aw gosh.

(18:24):
Really, it was the worst job, I kept saying, it's the worst job I've ever had. {Judith} Really?
{Beverley} Mmm hmmm. {Judith} And that was in a room of how many typists? {Beverley} There was,
roughly from memory, about 4 over on that side, 3 over this side, and we had the Supervisor
in the corner. {Judith} So just 1 Supervisor? {Beverley} Yeah, 1 supervisor. {Judith} And what did the Supervisor do,
the work come to...was it a woman? {Beverley} Yeah. {Judith} So the work came to the Supervisor and she put it in

(18:48):
these baskets. {Beverley} Yes, or the men dropped it themselves. So just put it on the top, and of course
it would gradually go to the bottom. {Judith} Yeah. {Beverley} But she just sort of supervised it.
{Judith} And what sort of machines did you have there? {Beverley} Uhm, just ordinary typewriter. {Judith} Manual typewriters?
Not electric? {Beverley} No, not at that stage, no we didn't, we just had manual. {Judith} Yeah. [Typewriter ding sound]

(19:11):
{Beverley} And I was made to go out and supervise the Typing Exam to the Police, because the Police all
had to use typewriters. {Judith} Of course. {Beverley} And I, the lady in the... the Supervising lady there said
'One of you always have to go out.' It was me. I suppose because I was eldest.
I was the eldest, because, you know, I was late twenties at this stage.

(19:32):
And I had to go out and supervise the typing exams. Well within the first five minutes one the typewriters
packed up! [Laughter] Aw god, it was terrible. It was terrible.
But anyway, we got there, we got there, and I used to go to the dances.
And one of the men came and asked me for a dance, he said, 'I remember you from my typing pool.'

(19:58):
I remember you supervised us out at Trentham.
I said 'Of course.' {Judith} Where they any good? {Beverley} Aw they were good, they were good.
Just the thing was... one finger, mostly one finger and we did it in the time allocated,
even with the broken down typewriter. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(20:18):
{Presenter} Yvonne secured a job through a recruitment firm in the Department of Statistics Typing Pool.
Her new role utilised her dictaphone typing skills, which was gaining popularity over a shorthand dictation by, the late 1970s.
Here Yvonne gives us a great recollection of how the Typing Pool work was organised. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Yvonne} Like a recruitment agency that they had back then, and she said 'Well there's a job going at the Department 230 00:20:43,088 --> 00:20:51,088 of Statistics, working at the Typing Pool. I went 'Okay... what does that mean?'

(20:51):
You just sit there typing all day and I'm going, 'Uhhh I can do that.
I can type all day so I'm pretty good typist'. So I think we'd had to go do the typing test,
at like 50 words a minute. I could do 50 words a minute and they said there would be
some audio typing because people will now starting to use the little tapes.
And so there would be some of that work to do, and nobody else had done that in the Typing Pool.

(21:15):
So I'd probably be one of the first people. But I was the 'Junior', I was the baby,
because I think I'll still like 17, and so joined the Typing Pool.
So Statistics was then in Molesworth Street, right opposite. The uhm, what is now New World,
but used to be the Brewery. Aww, and we were on the 12th floor, I remember

(21:40):
that because we sat up where the General Manager sat, or whoever the CEO of Statistics was,
But we sat up there. And so we would like, 'Wow, we're on the 12th floor. This is pretty cool.'
Well that's what I thought. It was pretty cool.
We had the corner office, we have great views of the Brewery, across the road,
and all the boys that worked there. Ah remember looking down at them at lunch time [Laughter].

(22:04):
And there were... like there was the Head Typist who sat on a plinth,
literally on a plinth. There was the Senior Typist or the Assistant Head Typist.
So, I don't think she sat on a plinth, and then they were like, Senior Typists, and there was Telex Operator,

(22:29):
who sat in the corner with their Telex machine banging away, yep.
So that was interesting. And I think there was me and another girl who was probably a little bit older than me,
she'll probably in her twenties. {Eth} So how many all together in the pool?
So I'm working around the room, so I was by the door,
and there was one, two, three, four, five, six. Probably about six of us.

(22:51):
{Eth} Including you? Senior typists... {Yvonne} Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we were a big Typing Pool
in the whole scheme of things but yet, that and literally the door would open and the work would come in
{Eth} How did it come in? {Yvonne} A boy... used to... I remember a young men would come in
and take the work to the Head Typist and then she would divvy it up,

(23:14):
depending on your expertise and what you could actually do,
so whether it was just a plain letter or whether it was doing... because it was Statistics,
so it was doing statistical tables, so that was a bit of work to actually do that.
So she would divvy up the work and then you had to give the work back to her to check until she
thought you are okay. Uhm to then let the work go and then you would have like

(23:40):
an IN tray and OUT tray. And then she'd...they would collect the work and then the young man would
come and get it, and take it back to which ever Department needed the work,
or whoever deposited work. So there were little slips on it, so it would say this was typed by
Yvonne or typist number 2, I can't remember if we had names, must have had name so they would know it was me.
And so... and that was our day, I think we started quite probably 8:30 in the morning,

(24:06):
and worked till probably about 4:30, 5:00 o'clock in the evening,
and just typed. {Eth} What sort of equipment were you using by then?
{Yvonne} So electric typewriters and I think we even had like what's called the Golf Ball?
with the round... swung around, the Golf Ball one, yep.

(24:28):
So I think we had those and we must have had a couple different,
different typewriters but I think mine was a Golf Ball one. [Sound of Typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Working as a Staff Typist for the Housing Corporation in the 1980s, Allison was rotated
around the different sections and found that she really enjoyed working with the Lawyers.
In this era dictation was recorded onto small tapes, which the typist then used a desktop machine,

(24:55):
a headset and foot pedals to listen back to, and transcribe into written documents. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Allison} There were... there was the Manager, there was a Senior Typist and there were three Staff Typists.
So I was one of the three Staff Typists, and uhm...
{Judith} Presumably you were the only Junior or...you were one of them?

(25:15):
{Allison} I was the only... yeah I was the only Junior, the other two Staff Typists had been there
a number of years. So I was the yeah, I was certainly the baby. [Laughter]
I was certainly the baby, uhm but the Manager, she did shorthand, which is why
I think she liked me, because I did shorthand, and she could see, sort of,

(25:40):
her and me, and that's why she want to employ me. {Judith} So I was quite special, to have shorthand?
{Allison} Yeah, it was. Yeah, so I kind of felt like I got opportunities in the team 287 00:25:51,0688 --> 00:25:55,080 that the others didn't get, because they didn't do the shorthand. And I got to go to meetings...
{Judith} Tell me. tell me how the work was actually allocated? {Allison} So we had... there were different

(26:01):
sections in Housing Corporation at the time. There was Rental, there was Loans, there was Legal,
and you weren't allowed to do legal until you'd been there for quite some time, and you got quite proficient.
But I've got to do Legal quite quickly as I recall, you had to be really accurate to do the legal work
for the solicitors. And so they had all these different sections and and we rotated every week.

(26:22):
So one week you'd be doing Loans, and the next week you'd be doing Rentals, and then if you
did Legal, you do a week on Legal and so we did lots of dictation work, got the little
dicta... not like these flash machines now, but we got the little tapes, were in a box,
and you had to go and get a tape and put it into the machine on your desk. And type up all the...

(26:44):
{Judith} And what was your typewriter? {Allison} It was electric, I think it was one of the ones,
with the ball... {Judith} Was it? {Allison} Yeah, yeah. {Judith} An IBM or something like... {Allison} Yeah,
I think yeah. {Judith} Okay. {Allison} Yeah, I know we got... we got new ones, a couple of times in the time
I was there, but same type of Technology, just the newer version.

(27:05):
Mmm-hmm... and then we had the dictation machine on our desk as well, with the little tapes
to do the dictation work. {Judith} Did you like that? {Allison} I did actually. Yeah, I enjoyed that, yeah,
and the head set. And you had to sit there, typing away, and then you go to deliver your work once it has been typed.
And so you got out around the building... {Judith} And who did the quality checking... for your work?

(27:27):
Did the Senior Typist or the Supervising Typist, or anybody check your work?
{Allison} Not that I recall... no. {Judith} It was assumed you'd be accurate? {Allison} Yes, absolutely.
I don't recall anybody checking it, no. {Judith} And you were what 16, 17?
{Allison} I was 17, 17. Yeah I was 18 at the end of that first year. {Judith} Because all those documents were really important.

(27:50):
{Allison} Mmm.. oh, loan documents for loans for people buying houses and Property Law Act notices,
and all those kind of... you know it was before Tenancy Service's ever existed,
so, you know this department wasn't there then, so we did Property Law Act Notices, and
legal documents... I loved the legal work. {Judith} Did you? Why was that?

(28:11):
{Allison} Aw it was just, always loved the legal aspect of things. And I think just the... because it was
so important and it had to be right, and it was interesting, it wasn't just a letter to somebody
telling them they were behind with the rent, or... it was just interesting.
I really enjoyed it. {Judith} And you knew it was going to have to hold up, possibly, in Court. {Allison} Yeah, exactly, mmmh.

(28:32):
Yeah, and the we had two lawyers at the... solicitors they were called at the time... a lady, Margaret Bird,
and Roger Donnell, the man, and he was, at the time, he was real scary type person,
but I got to know him over the years, and he was actually really lovely.
And the first time I did work for him, he wrote me this lovely quote,

(28:54):
which I still got, about... about what I'd done, so it was lovely, yeah. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} When Maureen joined the Air Force in 1960, as a Shorthand Typist, she was still required
to do basic training in Dunedin, before being posted to a Typing Pool. She then went on to
undertake sole charge typist roles in different parts of the Base, and in different parts of the country. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(29:19):
{Eth} Okay, so you joined the Air Force, where were you put, when you went into the Air Force?
{Maureen} Oh we had to go and do a six week, was it? Six week recruit course,
down in Taieri, out of Dunedin... uhm, and I loved it.
And we all seem to meet on the train in Hamilton, because there was a lot coming down from Wellington.

(29:45):
We had to go down by train, then cross over on the boat, that was probably the worst day in the year
that you could go across that Strait (Cook Strait).
And then down by train, down to Dunedin, and we got off the train and it was snowing.
And we'd never snow, and we were standing there like dorks,

(30:13):
running around in the snow, and then all of a sudden you heard this bellow from this Sergeant.
It was a lot of learning we did in those first six weeks,
and then after the six weeks, we got posted to different Air Force bases,
around the country. And I got Whenuapai, which turned out

(30:36):
when we realised later on, that the closest to your home was the closest base you went to,
from a recruit course. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Eth} So when it came to your work, where did you get put with that shorthand and that typing?
{Maureen} For the first... the first job that I had after recruit course was in Headquarters,

(31:01):
I can't remember how long I was in Headquarters on base for... no I've got no idea how long that was.
But then it got to the stage that they started to shift me around.
And I had really interesting jobs like up at the Command and Staff College,

(31:23):
and that was where they trained people that they had chosen to become Officers.
I worked in the Hangar, oh I don't know I must have worked in the Hanger for about 4 years.
Loved it out there and it was interesting. Our offices were at the back of the Hangar,

(31:45):
or along the side of the Hanger, but every time I walked out into the Hangar,
the boss had told the guys out there, that if I was going out into the Hangar,
and the first person to notice me, they were to let everyone else know that I was in the Hanger,
so there was no swearing or anything going on, which I was quite impressed with at the time.

(32:10):
{Eth} And can you remember anything much about the type of work that you were doing?
{Maureen} In those initial days, when I was in the Typing Pool, it was mainly 358 00:32:24,0888 --> 00:32:30,048 just letters, oh and the payroll, once a fortnight.
When you shifted down to the Hangar, I just did everything that was required down there.

(32:36):
Plus a few extras for some of the guys, that they... private stuff which you
weren't allowed to do, you know, that sort of thing. They knew it went on of course. 363 00:32:47,088--> 00:32:54,068 {Eth} Well the Officers had all been below officer level at some point. [Laughter]
{Maureen} Yeah, I probably spent 18 months in the Typing Pool. I joined the Air Force as a

(33:06):
Leading Aircraft Woman and usually you would join the Air Force as an Aircraft Woman.
But if you were a Shorthand Typist you were... you went in as a Leading Aircraft Woman.
Then I got my Corporal Stripes, just the two stripes. Uhm where did I go from there?

(33:28):
Then I got a posting to Wellington... and I hated it. [Laughter]
{Eth} And in all those roles you were doing shorthand typing? {Maureen} Mostly typing.
I more or less dropped shorthand in the end because no one was using it.
{Eth} But you have to have it to get the Leading... {Maureen} Yes, yes, Leading Aircraft Woman.

(33:51):
You had to have that qualification to move, you know, to get in really.
For me as a Shorthand Typist but that also meant that, you know, we moved up the ranks quicker
because we had shorthand typing.
I think, on my second posting to Wellington, I think I was probably a Sergeant then. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(34:19):
{Presenter} Valerie started her typist career for State Insurance in Invercargill in 1952.
Gaining her Senior Government Exams at night school then, proved to be a good decision when she returned
to the workforce in 1976, after a long break to raise her family. During her interview with the DSIR
Valerie requested family-friendly hours, asking to finish the day earlier,

(34:42):
so she could collect her children from school. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Valerie} So I tried for a job in Lincoln at the DSIR, Department of Scientific and Industrial Research,
my children, the ones going to High School, were going to Lincoln High School.
And I thought we could go together, so when I went for the job interview,

(35:03):
I said to them, 'Yes, I would like the job, but I want to finish an hour early,
so I can pick up my children from school'.
So they listen to me, very politely, but it seemed to throw them into a bit of a quandary.
And I guess Head Office was involved, and all that sort of thing, but I did get the job.

(35:24):
And I was always quite amused because the Head Typist, who was a wee bit of a dragon,
said she didn't give a stuff for my latest qualifications, she said you got the job
because you had Senior Government, and Senior Government covered English.
And she said, so many modern young women have very poor English,

(35:44):
and so that is why I got the job, through my old Senior Government Certificate.
And they did let me finish at 3:30pm, and then I drove around to the school. I brought my children
to school, and then I went round to the school and brought them home, a 15 mile trip.
And I brought other local children home as well.[Laughter] So that was quite good.

(36:06):
Now, this was the job with the most interesting content, of any job I had.
I really, really enjoyed the content of that job.
We did a lot for the Botany Division, and that was a Mr Godley,
and then also a lot for the Crop Research, but also they were doing a lot of investigation

(36:28):
into bumblebees. So we, you know, we had a lot to do with bumblebees, and plants.
And their handwriting was a problem, we were doing it from handwriting,
a lot of scientific words, of course, but I seem to manage that very well,
or as well as any of us did. {Eth} You were not using your shorthand very much there?

(36:50):
{Valerie} No, not at all. {Eth} Not at all. {Valerie} There wasn't any shorthand used at all.
The Head Typist, she did quite a lot of dictaphone work,
but I think she was the only one that did it, I can't remember doing it there.
I did later on in another job. There were five of us once again, it was a pool of about five,
and she ran it with a fairly iron hand, distributed the work,

(37:14):
but of course, the work they did would be very long, research papers,
and then of course they seem to go off to... Joe, you know, Joe Bloggs and
Tom, and Dick, and Harry all seem to look through them and alter them. And then of course they would come back.
And the would be whole pages taken out, and they'd be whole pages put in. And when they were 30,

(37:36):
40 pages long, we used to try and sort of cobble it together, so we didn't have to do the whole darn thing again.
So sometimes you'd end up with some short pages into some long pages,
and that sort of thing. But I did enjoy there, and, you know, there were
funny little things, they'd get us to taste the new varieties of potatoes,

(37:57):
random tests. So if we were agreeable, we'd all go over to a sort of a laboratory,
and they'd have all these slices of cooked potatoes for us,
and we'd taste them, and give our opinion and that sort of thing. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Rosemary graduated her Nelson Polytech Secretarial course with no intention of working in a Typing Pool.

(38:20):
However, before making a move to Wellington in 1976, she found herself a shorthand typist job
with the Post Office and a place in the GPO Boarding House. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Rosemary} I remember being interviewed by the Nelson Evening Mail, there was a few of us in the class who got interviewed
about what we wanted to do, when we left Polytech, and I said 'I don't want to work in a typing pool.

(38:42):
I think I'd like to work in an office', I thought. After graduation one of the girls
that I roomed with, boarded with in Nelson, she got a job in Wellington, 431 00:38:53,0888 --> 00:38:59,088 Post Office Headquarters. She said to me 'Oh why don't you come up and work there too?
They're always looking for typists.' I thought about it, and I thought 'Yes I will.'

(39:04):
And so I applied for a job at Post Office Headquarters and got it. {Judith} Well of course you did, you come top of
your class in your grade. {Rosemary} And I started work there on the 2nd of February 1976.
I think at a salary of $2,828 per year. [Laughter] {Judith} No. {Rosemary} Yes,
I boarded, I suppose in the Post Office Boarding House, in Thorndon.

(39:31):
33 Hobson Street, I've never forgotten it, within walking distance.
{Judith} Absolutely, yes. {Rosemary} I have to say I didn't really enjoy that experience.
I'd never had to look after myself before. Mum had always done it.
So when I started work, I remember, I had two skirts, two tops,

(39:54):
this was in summer. And one pair of shoes, so I really had to buy all my own clothes.
And they inducted us I suppose, and we had a desk file, which set out
how you set out your letters. {Judith} Like a style book? {Rosemary} Yes it was like a style book,

(40:17):
and I can remember sitting down that first day thinking 'I'm never going remember
all this, how many spaces to put between the address and the date, and...
And there was no flexibility, so you had to do your letters in that format,
and everything we typed had to go to the Senior Typist, for checking.

(40:39):
Before it went on its way to wherever it was going. {Judith} And you did carbon copies?
{Rosemary} Oh carbon copies yes, lots of carbons, usually 3. {Judith} And if you did make an error
of some sort of, were you able to correct it? What did you have to do to... do it again, or whatever it was? 452 00:40:54,088 --> 00:41:01,080 {Rosemary} Depends on what it was, for Ministerial letters because we did a lot of letters, Ministerials,

(41:01):
they had to be perfect. So, if we made a mistake, we had to start again. And they were on thicker quality paper.
We did three types, we did letters, we did memos, which were more internal and Minutes,
Within the floor. And they were all carbon copied. The letters, and the memos, if we made a mistake,

(41:24):
we rubbed it out with your little rubber, and the carbon copy... copies...
and just... the more you tried not to make a mistake, especially with the Ministerials,
and more you made, yes. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Rosemary} Still smoking, you know smoking was still acceptable back then,

(41:48):
and I can remember one of the staff members coming to me one day,
and saying 'Excuse me Rose but the rubbish bin's on fire!' [Laughter]
She used to put all her cigarette butts in an envelope, seal it up and put it in her bin.
{Judith} It would still be hot! {Rosemary} Yes, and one day it did burn, so...
put the fire out and there was no damage, metal bins in those days of course. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(42:16):
{Presenter} Jill obtained a lot of qualifications during her 50-year career,
achieving Advanced Level Public Service or Government Exams,
Trade Certification Board, and Chamber of Commerce. She even re sat the Senior and Advanced Pitman certificates,
being awarded top in New Zealand for shorthand. The value of these skills is still in service today.
In this clip Jill tells Eth about how has she has been able to provide this expertise in her current role

(42:43):
as a Medical Typist. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} And can you remember how you got to know how to set things out? Did they have an example for you to follow?
{Jill} I think because from school, because we've done Public Service exams at school,
we knew how to.. what the spacing should be.

(43:04):
And I... when I came to work at the Hospital 4 years ago, a lot of people hadn't been professionally trained,
as typists, so they were all doing different set outs.
And I, so I'd be, they'd be getting me to do their work for them and I'd be saying 'No, you're setting these things out.'
Because I was quite a pain in the backside for them all, and we ended up having a big meeting,

(43:29):
and deciding, on my recommendations, what our spacing should be.
And it was back to the Government spacings. {Eth} Can you remember generally, how many carbon copies you had to do?
[Laughter] You all do that (make a face). {Jill} I remember the little pieces of paper you had to slot between

(43:53):
the carbons, like three or four. And I remember the stencils where you had to paint the errors with
that little pink nail polish eraser. {Eth} Yeah. And when you made a mistake did you generally have to start again,
or did you manage... sometimes to correct? {Jill} Generally, I got pretty good at correcting. [Laughter]

(44:14):
I wasn't the best typist in the world. Yeah, so uhm, yeah, lots of corrections.
I was telling my husband today that one of the girls that work with me, we collected all our our rubber,
from the rubbers, and put it in the envelope, and called it our 'Rubber Dust Factory'. [Sound of typewriters clacking]

(44:36):
{Presenter} By the mid 1980s, when Sarah started her first job as a Shorthand Typist,
induction programs assisted new staff to get up to speed quickly.
The technology of this era created a fast-paced environment diversifying the tasks of typists,
who are now being asked to operate mainframe computers, keying in data quickly and accurately.
[Typewriter carriage return sound]

(44:57):
{Sarah} I can't really remember, but then I got the DSW interview, and that was to work in the Typing Pool
as a Junior Typist at the Manukau DSW office. So I started and got trained up, and they were quite good,
like you had your trainers, they were Senior Typists, but they're like the teachers really.
They'd... you'd take your letter up and they critique it and you go back and fix it up. So you're taught

(45:17):
how to... how to lay out the letters in terms of what DSW did, and like so, uhm, you know,
I was young and learnt things quite quickly. So thought I was pretty good.. {Judith} What was the pool like?
Was it a big room? {Sarah} Yep, and it was a massive room. So what we had in there, we had a room there that would probably,
if I think back, about 10 or 15 of us, all the typewriters were then at the back there was a word-processor,

(45:38):
that was really interesting, yes, so we had... it was called Wang between 1986, 87, and then we also 506 00:45:44068 --> 00:45:49,088 had a big computer room and that's where we did teletexts and all the processing of payments.
And the work we did that manually. So I was employed as a Junior Typists who also was required to
do shorthand, take shorthand dictation. So did that, and like it was quite interesting because you get there

(46:00):
in the morning, all these people who'd rung up saying 'Yep, I need dictation', you go down to the floor,
you take a notepad and take all that, and then come back and transcribe it all. Yeah it was Pitmans, yeah.
I didn't do the was the other one, there was other ones. too. So yeah, so there was a few of us that did shorthand, at
at the Typing Pool. {Judith} Did you get more money for that? {Sarah} No, so you can come in his Juniors.
So Junior Typist, and go through the ranks.I was sort of proud of myself because in 18 months I became a Senior Typist.

(46:25):
Yeah, 18 months later. So, that was quite cool. I thought oh yeah that was alright, and there was probably about five or six
of us, as Seniors. Yes. Oh, so. {Judith} So by this time you'd been going on for 18? {Sarah} Yep, yeah.
It's quite young, yeah. [Sound of Typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Whilst the majority of the keystrokes interviews were recorded as in-person oral interviews,

(46:46):
most often in the participants' home or workplace. The Research team also invited participants
to submit a written self-interview based on a set of similar questions.
In this next clip, we flip that process and interview in-person, in the studio,
one participant who wrote their story down for us. [Typewriter carriage return sound]

(47:08):
{Presenter} Maggie Rainey Smith is a novelist, poet, short story writer, essayist and book reviewer,
her latest novel, Daughters of Messini, is about immigration and the Greek Civil War.
In her working life, she teaches Workplace English to migrants and refugees.
Maggie's working life however, started as a Shorthand Typist at the Nelson Chief Post Office.

(47:29):
Many of Maggie's mother's siblings, worked for the Post Office, and it was a beloved Aunt, who was also
a shorthand typist, who set her on that path. Welcome Maggie to the Keystrokes per Minute podcast,
it's a pleasure to have you here, and talk about your experiences and those of your contemporaries.
Thank you Megan, it's a pleasure to be invited, I was really interested when a friend, who I

(47:51):
was in the Typing Pool with, and who I was at the Post Office Hostel, Barclay House, in the,...gosh the 60s,
contacted me and said, 'Look, this is... this should be fun, and yeah, it's lovely, it's been lovely
looking back and thinking, about those days. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} Give us a quick rundown, you were born and raised in Richmond... {Maggie} Richmond, Nelson,

(48:11):
which is my mother's hometown and my mother was a working-class Irish, Catholic family,
or Scottish, Irish, Catholic Family. She left school aged 12.
So her younger sister was the lucky last sibling, who was given an education.
So she went to the Catholic, the Convent, and was educated by the nuns,

(48:32):
and became a Shorthand Typist. And she remained unmarried, and so therefore
had a good income, her own car and was kind of the envy of our family.
We didn't have a car, and so she was kind of something to aspire too, beautiful clothes... a life.
And yeah, as a young person I didn't have great aspirations but I kind of knew I wanted to be a Reporter.

(49:00):
Which is what I thought, and I knew you needed shorthand. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} Do you remember the interview? How you got into your first job? {Maggie} That's a really interesting question,
because I don't, but I suspect, I know I left school at 16 and I went briefly to the Nelson Polytech,
to get my Shorthand speed up. And I know that my Aunt was the Supervising Shorthand Typist

(49:24):
for the Engineer's office in Nelson
And I ended up with a job and the Clerical side. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} Now, this was one of my favourite parts of your interview, so I'm just going to give the whole paragraph.
{Maggie} Oh dear. {Presenter} Okay, another of my enduring memories is cleaning my typewriter
on a Friday afternoon. It was quite an event. I think we typed on an Imperial 66, but I also recall the brand Remington,

(49:50):
so I can't be certain, but I do recall is the small zipper bag, with all the brushes,
and various cloths needed, for cleaning the typewriter.
We would go so far as to remove the platean. And for our listeners, that's the roller,
if you like, the black roller at the back of the machine, that turns the paper and
and clean it with white spirits. I kept in touch with my first Supervising Shorthand Typist,

(50:14):
and in recent years, we had a laugh about my ability to disassemble my typewriter for cleaning,
and ending up with 'spare parts', belonging to the typewriter that I didn't know where to put back. [Laughter]
So a small pile of extra bits accumulated on my desk, meanwhile, thankfully the typewriter keep functioning.
{Maggie} This is true, and it's sounds ridiculous, but I don't quite know how I managed it.

(50:37):
It was kind of a joke, yeah. {Presenter} Did anyone else have little small piles of spare parts?
{Maggie} No I don't think so. I think I was the one who had the most carbon up their white blouse, and
the person who could, who could dismantle a typewriter and put it back together without replacing every piece.
[Typewriter carriage return sound]
I recall a Mrs Downes, who came to be our Supervising Shorthand Typist in the Typing Pool in Wellington,

(51:02):
who was a huge influence on my life, and she arrived and got the job, as often happened in those situations,
she wasn't expected, someone else within the Pool was, and she came from another branch.
And at the time, it's, I think she was 60, and we were all appalled, she was so old,
which it makes me chuckle now. But she was an absolute honey of a woman,

(51:23):
and for some reason she saw my potential and she kind of fostered my... she actually had me
promoted to PO HQ, and I ended up in personnel as a Senior Shorthand Typist,
and that was really uncomfortable, because I wasn't expected to get that job.
But she also encouraged me to travel, so I look back on that time more just about meeting a person who believes in you.

(51:54):
She knew we'd had some bereavement in our family, and I was away from home.
She kind of just took me under her wing and she was, just kind of devoted to the whole Typing Pool. [Typewriter ding sound]
We did have a lovely social life because we were a Hostel, and I think it was in the era,
like the Nursing Hostels. So, on Saturday night, anyone who is having a party and wanted girls,

(52:22):
would phone the Hostel, there was kind of... and it sounds a little bit dodgy,
but we would just all jump in a Taxi. Someone would call and say 'We're having a party.'
at such n' such an address. And we'd go in a group, so I suppose that was the safety.
And I don't ever recall anything dodgy, we would just go to parties... there was always a call on Saturday night.
A party was happening in Wellington but also we went to the Sheridan. We went to the Downtown Club,

(52:46):
we went to The Majestic Cabaret, the Cavern. You know it was...
and we walked everywhere because we were in Oriental Bay. So you'd... we'd get a taxi to a party
if it was in like, one of the suburbs, like Hataitai or something, we didn't, couldn't get there.
But mostly if we went to a dance in town, like we would just walk around Oriental Bay, and
walk home again... at night, completely fearless. [Typewriter ding sound]

(53:11):
And one lovely little thing that I might tell you, is that the Māori girls at the Hostel...
...there was this, lovely young man who would turn up when the overseas ships, like the Angelina Lauro,
and the Italian cruise ships came into the old Overseas Terminal?
He would come to the Hostel, and he would take the girls down, they would form a concert party,

(53:33):
and sing farewell songs, or welcome songs. And it was many, many years later,
when I returned to having traveled overseas, lived and came back, and I became a writer,
I recognised that that was Witi Ihimaera, who used to work at the Herd Street Post Office,
and he wasn't, at that stage, a writer or well-known. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} You know, reflecting back over the arc of your whole career. {Maggie} Yeah, yeah, well I

(53:57):
think, I think when I left New Zealand and traveled on my own, I could get work in London,
easily because I had shorthand typing skills. So that was... and I never regret that,
had I been... had done a professional course, I may not have got, I mean, I tempted all the time
and it funded my traveling. So that was amazing. And then, I am now a writer late in life,

(54:19):
but I type my novels, and listen to my computer, so
and I type really fast, and I think fast, and I find my creative response
between the keyboard, my thinking, and the keyboards become quite integral.
And recently I broke my arm and my husband's like, 'Oh why don't you do voice activated?'

(54:43):
I said, 'No, no, I can't. It's the magic between my thoughts and what happens on the keys.'
That's where the the magic happens and I'm quite a gregarious person,
but it's a different thing and I didn't... so, yeah, the keyboard for me is, is how I unleash, what's in my head.

(55:04):
So yeah, I think it's quite a good thing. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} It was a delight to talk to you Maggie, thanks for sharing your memories
of the Typing Pool life, in Wellington in the 1960s. Excitingly Maggie published her first poetry collection,
a baby boomer memoir titled 'Formica' in March 2022.
Online orders, through goodbookshop.nz and to find out more about Maggie,

(55:27):
Go to her website, maggierainysmith.com. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
Thanks to all the interviewees in this episode. And in fact, I'd like to take a moment to thank all of
the 52 women and 3 men, who agreed to record their oral histories for submission
into the National Library Archives. Unfortunately, they were one or two recordings that were not able to

(55:49):
be included in the podcast, due to audio quality issues. Where we can, we will include some narrated
excerpts from the transcriptions of those interviews.
Coming up in Episode 5, the last in the Life of the Typing Pool episodes, Part 3
we'll present the stories of where interviewees progressed to, either within. or once they left

(56:10):
the typing pool and spotlight the only Typing Pool that still exists today,
that of the Medical Typists and Transcriptionists in Hospitals and DHBs. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
The Keystrokes per Minute project was made possible by funding support from the Ministry of Culture and Heritage,
and the Public Services Commission. Listeners can find out more about the project by visiting website,

(56:34):
www.storycollective.nz. The soundtrack is kindly provided by permission from the Boston Typewriter Orchestra,
find their music, and merchandise on Bandcamp.com. Thanks for listening.