July 17, 2023 • 56 mins
In this episode we hear stories of where interviewees’ careers progressed to, whether they stayed in the typing pool moving into senior or supervisory roles, whether they moved into other areas of Govt work, or left the Public Service all together.
Then we put the spotlight on the only typing pool that still exists today, that of the Medical Typists and Transcriptionists in District Health Boards across the country.
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This podcast is only made possible thanks to the work of the Keystrokes Oral History Project, find out more at www.storycollective.nz/background
Funding support from the Public Services Commission (NZ) and the Ministry of Culture and Heritage (NZ).
Soundtrack with permission and thanks from The Boston Typewriter Orchestra, find their music on bandcamp.com
© Copyright 2017 Meg Melvin as StorycollectiveNZ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Storycollective, untold stories by unheard voices [Sound of typewriters clacking]
Keystrokes per Minute, a limited series podcast about the women of the New Zealand
Public Service Typing Pools from 1945 til the present day.
Haere mai, welcome to Episode 5 Life in the Typing Pool, Part 3.
(00:22):
We start this episode with the stories of where interviewees careers progress to, whether they stayed
in the typing pool, moving into senior or supervisory roles, whether they moved into
other areas of government work or left the Public Service altogether. For those who stayed
the impact of the 1988 State Services Act intersecting with the evolution of new technologies,
(00:43):
saw the beginning of the end of the Public Service Typing Pools. At the time it was reported in
the Dominion Sunday Times '...that a blizzard of legislation, restructurings
and efficiency drives continue to affect the Public Sector.'
In 1989 came reports that a total of 40,000 state jobs had gone in three years.
(01:05):
In the second half of this episode, we put the spotlight on the only typing pool that still exist today
that of the Medical Typists and Transcriptionists in District Health Boards across the country. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
Before we kick off Episode 5, let me introduce listeners to one of the Keystrokes Oral history
project researchers, without whom this podcast would not exist. [Typewriter ding sound]
(01:29):
Hello, kia ora, my name is Eth Lloyd and I am one of the Keystrokes researchers. I became
involved in this project for a series of reasons, but particularly is the voices of this
part of the workforce deserve to be heard and must be retained. Listening to, and
recording the stories of these women, shows the value of the work, the deep pride,
(01:51):
and satisfaction they got from the work, and from doing it to a very high standard.
I hope that those who listen to these these stories also feel pride in the work they did. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} In this opening clip, Mary Dooley explains her progression through the different government departments
and senior positions within the typing pools. Eventually, working her way up to the Manager of Typing Services,
(02:15):
with the Department of Internal Affair, in command of a large group of typists spread out
across satellite pools. Mary, then tells us about how another round of restructuring
was the catalyst for her retirement in 1992, after 43 years service. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Rose} So, you decided when you saw a new... {Mary} Next grading. {Rose} Right.
(02:39):
{Mary} I applied for it.
{Rose} How did you see that job? {Mary} In the Professional Circular, you see, and it just happened to be
very, very seldom, would a graded position come up, in that next grade.
Because they were really tight these grades, you know, the pool, what... the rules were,
that if it was a staff of 10 or under, you were on the lowest grade of a supervisor; 34 00:03:07,028 --> 00:03:14,088 if you had between 10 and 20, or 11 and 20, then you were in the next grade;
(03:14):
and if you had over 20, you were in the next grade, you see? So that's that's the way it worked.
Now, what happened was, Social Welfare was advertising for a... Supervising Typist in Charge,
for their District Office. Now I was in the Department of Health District Office,
(03:35):
so I applied, I didn't think there'd be a problem, I was wrong.
I got the job... but I didn't realise that there was a lady who had been sitting there expecting
to get the job, and she appealed against me. They told me, don't worry, it will all be taken care of.
(03:57):
And it was, and I... and she, she had to take my job on the other department. {Rose} In the Health Department?
{Mary} Yep, the Health Department. [Typewriter ding sound]
I saw a job advertised at the next grade, and it was at Labour Department Head Office, in the Hope Gibbons Building,
on the corner of Taranaki Street and Inglewood Place.
(04:19):
And... I didn't apply because I thought 'Oh there'll be somebody there, sitting in the wings, waiting for this job,
I'm not going to go under... go through that again, so I didn't apply. But about a month later, 51 00:04:33,088 --> 00:04:40,088 I saw the job advertised again. So I thought 'Oh, I'd better put my application in',
(04:40):
and so I did. And I got called for an interview.
And the next thing is I had got the job. [Typewriter ding sound]
Internal Affairs was another very diverse department. Very, very diverse and very, very interesting.
And it had a wide range of subjects that it covered.
(05:02):
{Rose} So you started at... ? {Mary} Internal Affairs in May of 1975,
and I worked there until I retired. 58 00:05:12,0880 --> 00:05:25,080 And I retired in the middle of the year of...1990.. yeah, sorry, 1992.
(05:25):
They decided to restructure and I'd been working for 42 and a half years, at this time,
and I had six months retiring leave due to me.
So I decided not to apply for my job, which was re-advertised as the Manager of Typing Services,
plus Staff Training Officer together.
(05:50):
They decided to include the role of Staff Training Officer for the Department.
And I thought 'Yeah, I don't want to do it. So I just... I, I decided to take my retiring leave and finished up then,
at that stage. Didn't apply for the job, and I was turning 60 in the following January.
(06:13):
So that was my 6 months retiring leave and I was paid up till the end of 1992, 43 years altogether,
[Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} At the end of Episode 4, we heard from New Zealand writer, and poet, Maggie Rainey Smith,
but Maggie is not the only writer to be produced from the typing pools. In this clip Lorraine tells us about
(06:35):
her writing career, which included publishing articles for School Publications,
and that she once wrote a Radio Play about typists in 1979. When the producers said
they had trouble finding an audience, Lorraine knew exactly who to call. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Lorraine} But they sent me out relieving a lot, another time went relieving at School Pubs, which was school Publications,
(06:55):
that was how I was discovered with my writing. Because I did a lot of writing, and they put it in,
in the Department newsletter that I had sold a six-part Radio Play. {Judith} Tell me about that?!
{Lorraine} Oh it was called Typist in Charge, and it was all about a Government typing office,
and it was on at night, half an hour situation comedy. Anyway, they saw that I'd done that... {Judith} It was a series? 81 00:07:20,088 --> 00:07:23,060 {Lorraine} Yes, and they saw it done that in the newsletter, and one of the editors, the current editor
(07:23):
of School Publications came charging into the Typing Room, I was an In-Charge by this time,
just a little In-Charge, there were quite a few In-Charges... and he threw open the door, the editor
and he said, "Where's Lorraine?!" [Laughter] And I said, 'Here, here, here!'
And he said, he waved the newsletter and he said, 'I want you to write for us!'
(07:44):
He said 'You do it tonight' and he walked out again! [Laughter]
{Judith} Thunderstruck! {Lorraine} Yes, so I wrote a play and a short story. He rejected the short story but he took the play,
{Judith} What was the play called? {Lorraine} Elephant in the Garden, it was, it was basic, it was for 5 year olds,
all about how they had this Elephant in the Garden, and about, you know, 'What would they do with it?'
(08:05):
And in the end, they rode it. Mum road down to the shops and everything, but, uhm, and from then
I wrote about 60 more things for them. I was still writing later on, they'll be in the Archives,
because I sent a story to radio a couple of years ago and I said, 'Aw I've been writing for a long... I haven't written for, a year,
for 100 years for you. And when they announced on the radio, here's a new story by so-and-so who's been
(08:26):
writing for us for a long, long time. [Laughter] {Judith} When was that, what was the story?
{Lorraine} The last one? I think it was called Boxing Day Surprise, I'm not too sure. {Judith} When was that?
{Lorraine} A couple of years ago. And when I wrote Typist-in-Charge and Radio New Zealand bought it, they did it live in
Auckland. And I went up, and they said "We haven't, we can't get hold of anybody to come to the audience.'
(08:48):
And I said, 'Give me 10 minutes.' I rang up every typist office in the whole of Auckland in the Government,
and they came in their droves, for three days. They brought their lunch! [Laughter] {Judith} When was this?
{Lorraine} That was, it was... oh I can't remember when it was, long, long... {Judith} Just roughly.
{Lorraine} 78, something like that. It was called Typist in Charge and it didn't get very good reviews,
(09:12):
but all the Typists enjoyed it because I understood what was happening. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} Lorraine's confidence grew, and she started to apply for senior typist roles, but she always had her sights set
on being a Supervising Typist at the Ministry of Education. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} But you see what happened with me when I was a Junior, I was talking... my Supervising Typist, who was the top dog.
That was her title in those days Supervising Typist. And then Mrs Rolley, who was the Typist In-Charge, they were talking
(09:37):
and I said, I wanted to be like the Supervising Typist one day and I meant travel the world like her, and Mrs Rolley turned to her,
and said, 'Oh, they want to be like... she wants your job! Hahaha! She wants your job!' and I vowed then and there
I would get her job, and it took me 35 years! [Laughter] No, 30 years and I got it. {Judith} Wonderful. [Laughter] Wonderful.
(10:00):
And was it worth it, when you got it? {Lorraine} Well, see, at the time I was at the Health Department,
I was the Typist-in-Charge for the Health Department, I was one degree below the one I wanted at Education,
one... just one lousy little step, I was now almost there, and then they changed all those rules.
Like I was just telling you, and suddenly they might make my job at Health, the same,
(10:21):
exactly the same level as the one at Education. So I could stay in a beautiful job that I absolutely loved,
but I'd always hankered for this one at Education. So I put in for that one and I got it. [Typewriter carriage return sound] 116 00:10:31,088 --> 00:10:36,088 {Presenter} Lorraine had a remarkable career in the Public Service, and like many of her colleagues was affected greatly
by the restructuring, and rationalising of the Public Service in the '80s and '90s.
Here Lorraine explains what happened to her during this difficult period. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(10:45):
{Lorraine} ...then the restructuring came and they chucked me into a Secretary's job. {Judith} Now tell me about that,
because that was... {Lorraine} That broke my heart. {Judith} Restructuring was what year? {Lorraine} '88, '87 or something
like that, yes. {Judith} Yeah. Traumatic wasn't it? {Lorraine} Well, I did everything that they told me,
I ran courses for the girls, I came up with ideas to help them. What I did was, the girls who weren't on word processors,
(11:11):
I organised it so that they would have lessons from the girls who were on word processors, and
I'd give them a little certificate saying that they learnt it and the girls who'd done the teaching,
I gave them little certificates to say that they had taught. You know, I did all sorts of things
I got films in so they could watch. I did everything that I was told to do,
or that I came up with, all the ideas. {Judith} To prove their worth?
(11:34):
{Lorraine} Yeah, to help everybody during the restructuring process. But nobody... and the only job I could put in for,
of course, was Secretary. There's nothing else, because they got rid of middle management.
And I was, by this time I was I was Manager Typing Services that was my title, but I hardly ever used it because
the men got upset by me using it. One man went to the Boss and complained, why she put Manager Typing Services
(11:54):
on the bottom of this job, and it had to be pointed out to him that my title was Manager Typing Services.
He was in charge of 3, I was in charge of 33. [Laughter] The absolute worst thing that broke my heart,
I didn't realise this for 10 years afterwards, was that nobody told me,
nobody ever thought to tell me that I could have jumped grades. I could have, I've been doing nothing
(12:16):
but staff training for 15 years and I could have gone into Staff Training. But me being a stupid little typist,
who'd been trained to be a typist all my life, never thought twice that I could go out of the Typists grade.
{Judith} And nobody told... {Lorraine} Nobody... nobody told me that. We went on courses, and
what to do, and how to get through it, and nobody so much said, you can go, you can change grades.
(12:38):
You know... or classes I mean. {Judith} Extraordinary. {Lorraine} So I was in a Secretary job and I couldn't do it.
I was hopeless, I wasn't a Secretary. I couldn't make cups of tea, and be nice, and... and answer phones,
it was hopeless. And I almost had a nervous breakdown through it. {Judith} Really?
(12:58):
{Lorraine} So in the end they decided I don't know, they talked to me and I called the Union in,
and the girl I was secretary for said, had told the Union, if Lorraine doesn't resign from the Government,
we will make it public, how bad... not how bad she is, but we'll make it... we'll tell the whole world,
(13:19):
what's happened? Yeah, but I didn't matter, I said, I'll write this hilarious article all about her, how it went
and they didn't want that, so, so in the end they gave me my salary for two years at the high level.
And so what I did was I took a Staff Typist job in Education, in a little outlying office, for two years,
and licked my wounds on the same salary that I'd had as I'd been an In-Charge.
(13:40):
And then at the end of that, two years, when I felt I'd licked my wounds enough, I put in for a Typist-in-Charge job
at Survey and Land Information, same salary.[Laughter] And I negotiated that my superannuation stayed the same,
and I loved it, absolutely adored it. I was in charge of four girls, same salary, lovely people.
Absolutely adored it. {Judith} Thank goodness for that. {Lorraine} Yeah. {Judith} What a horrible experience.
(14:04):
{Lorraine} But of course, that was just beginning, happens all the time to people nowadays. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} We're glad to say that Lorraine thoroughly enjoys her retirement.
Having now traveled the world and as a 24-year veteran with her senior class at the gym,
not forgetting the fact she is, still today, a polar bear - someone who swims all year round, no matter the weather. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
(14:27):
{Presenter} Progressing out of the typing pool and to support and Personal Assistant roles,
Mina moved through different Government departments, juggling starting a family at a time when
maternity leave was not available with her first child, to returning from maternity leave
after her second child, only to find herself back in the typing pool.
This situation forced Mina to take action to be reinstated to her preferred role as PA. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(14:52):
{Mina} I went back to the Department and I didn't get my job, working for the Chief Judge, which I expected
because you can't leave a job... I had a whole year off, I had to go back to the Typing Pool.
I hated it, different girls and they're all younger than me. But then I found out that the person
who was in, looking after the Chief Judge, was a Temp (Temporary employee) and pregnant.
(15:15):
And I was... well this is off, so it was Christmas, just before Christmas,
because I had both my children were born at the end ...just before Christmas. When I went back to work in
the New Year, I thought 'Oh bugger them, I'm just going back up.' I went back to the desk and I sat there,
and I said, 'Got any problems see PSA.' But then, uhm, fate stepped in, because the girl, woman had her baby early.
(15:37):
It was mean to be. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} During the 1980s, while working at DSIR, Mina answered a call from an Iwi in the far North to go
and talk about scholarship administration. This led to another new role. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Mina} Actually it lead to another job that I ended up going to, Māori Education Trust and I was the office manager there.
(15:57):
So the Māori Education Trust... when I first came to Wellington, I got a Department of Education Scholarship.
Education put all their Scholarships to the Māori Education Trust,
So it was... I worked there for two years. So it was a great opportunity to for me to pay back. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} Mina picks up the timeline after moving into Special Education, in a regional role. [Typewriter ding sound]
(16:18):
{Mina} In that five years, I came into Head Office and was the Team Leader Admin,
and so it was good to be back, I missed the buzz of the city, being out in the burbs is pretty quiet.
So I applied for a job at Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry,
(16:39):
looking at the DDG of Policy. And I was there, looked after him for one year, 187 00:16:445,088 --> 00:16:49,088 he went off to become the CE for Environment. I stayed on here for three more years,
because by then my Mother was old and died, and I was Executor of her Will,
it took me three years to sort it out. Once it was sorted out, I went over to Environment.
(16:59):
The person that looked after over here, and looked after Paul Reynolds for 4 years,
until he retired. [Typewriter ding sound] It's one of the things that's kept me in my work,
because you're doing the same old, same old, but the content is different, and the
people are different. It's always very interesting, and I've got this mind where I like to learn. [Typewriter ding sound]
(17:22):
{Presenter} Mina retired from her last role as Executive Assistant to the Director of Communications,
at the Ministry for Primary Industries, in 2020, concluding a 45 year career with the Public Service. [Sound of Typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Valerie had worked at State Insurance, the DSIR, and the Ministry of Defence,
(17:44):
before she started at the Inland Revenue Department, in a typist role.
During her 14 years there, she saw he disestablishment of the Typing Pools, a shift into Administration, 199 00:17:53,088 -->00:18:01,088 and was one of the many typists who found themselves suffering from RSI or Repetitive Strain Injury. [Typewriter carriage returns sound]
{Eth} So you started at Inland Revenue, what year? {Valerie} I started there in 1987.
(18:07):
as I left the Army. {Eth} Yep. {Valerie} And I worked there until 2001.
So I was there a long time. Yes, yes.
And for a start it was more just the ordinary Typing Pool work. But hen, as I say they spread us out and they did a lot of,
(18:30):
you know, letters where the clerical work people only had to fill in gaps.
You know, they would have it on their own computers, and they would just put in, you know, 'Mr Brown',
and all this. So our work went down, and down, and down, yes.
So of course, they were asking us, did we want to work in another area? [Typewriter ding sound]
The changes were happening, people were starting to do their own letters too, and using the Typing Pool a bit less.
(18:56):
So our numbers gradually went down, and down, and then they got this idea
that each typist would be given several people, and they would type for them,
and them alone and it became a bit muddily I felt, in the end.
Some of us were in the Typing Pool, and some of us weren't.
There were still a small Typing Pool and I suppose Joe Bloggs (the average man) took his typing there.
(19:22):
But quite a lot of the Managers seemed to have a set person that did their work.
I seem to sort of float around I think, but I was starting to have quite a lot of problem with RSI,
in the wrists, which had been bothering me for a while.
And so, when I spoke to them about it, they got me to go and do in about an hour a day,
(19:47):
in the Administration area, and doing work there, and I really quite enjoyed that.
And I seem to do quite well. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Returning to New Zealand from London after her OE, Leigh returned to work at the Department of Social Welfare,
Finding that the structure had changed completely. All staff now had their own PCs and the Typing Pools
(20:08):
were essentially defunct, with Administration support staff grouped into satellite offices,
and another restructure on the horizon. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Leigh} So that was good yeah, a lot of London was good in those years, it was some, yeah,
it was fun, it was really good fun. Lots of friend come over to visit. Ahm so that what I've been '80
(20:31):
uhm early 80s. Then I had to come home, so wasn't really... so had to leave the UK.
Our working visas expired, and then 'Ahh what am I going to do?'
I'll just have to go back home, or maybe go to Australia, that might be a bit more exciting.
{Judith inaudible comment} {Leigh} Yeah, sort of the prospect of coming to back to Christchurch,
was just... after you've sort of had this really, you know, fun, buzzy time. {Judith} Swinging London. {Leigh} Yeah, yeah.
(20:59):
It was okay, so actually come back to work, rang up the Social Welfare Department to see,
you know, if there were any jobs going there, or had met somebody who said,
'Yeah, look, I'm sure there was something, come in, sort of thing. And so yes, sure enough! [Laughter]
Uhm so that... but the Department had changed quite a lot, had broken out into satellite offices.
And what did I do? I went into... I don't think there was... the Typing Pool wasn't there, I don't think.
(21:25):
{Judith inaudible comment} {Leigh} Everybody was either on PC, and you wrote, you know you did your own PC letters,
sort of thing. Uhm but I had, so I had a Clerical role in the Southern Accounting Centre,
it was, and it was based out at Papanui. There was a restructure we did,
there was a restructuring as well. That's... {Judith} Of the whole of WINZ (Welfare & Income NZ), or your section?
(21:48):
{Leigh} Ah I think of the whole of WINZ, yeah. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Rosemary had worked for the General Post Office since 1976, progressing to a supervising typist role.
Taking a short OE to Australia in the mid-80s, she was able to return to her Supervising job,
just before a major restructure, in 1987, saw the Post Office split into three separate entities. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(22:14):
{Rosemary} Then I applied for a year's leave without pay, and my boyfriend at the time,
and I, went to Sydney for a year to live.
And then I came back to my job as Supervisor, in the Post Office. And then in 1987,
the Post Office was split into the three corporations. Yes. And because the
(22:37):
Chief Postmasters Office worked across those whole three corporations,
so staff got to choose which corporation they would like to go to.
So I chose to go to Post and I ended up at Telecom. {Judith} Did you? [Laughter]
{Leigh} So, so much for choice. {Judith} So before 1987... to what extent did you know these things were going to happen?
(23:06):
How well prepared was the old Post Office with all its complex arrangements, for that, for that sort of change?
{Rosemary} I think they were somewhat prepared because Post was a separate... New Zealand,
or the Post Office was a separate, the Telecom part was separate.
Yes. So they were quite separate, so it was easy to split them off. But it was the groups like the Chief Postmasters Office,
(23:33):
I think that were... uhm, who went across the whole three. {Judith} They had to be cannibalised.
{Leigh} They had to be cannibalised and there... we also had had a lot of assets that went across the whole three.
So we had to have a Fixed Asset Register Team, aka the FART. [Laughter]
(23:55):
Which had to go round looking at all the assets to see which Corporation they would go to.
That was a huge job, enormous job and I remember it happened really, it was just was so quick,
It just happened really quickly. So I think on the last day of the Post Office,
(24:16):
it just happened with no fanfare. There was no... {Judith} Really? {Leigh} No.
{Judith} Years old institution. {Leigh} Yeah, just ceased to exist. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Sadie started at the General Post Office in 1957, and progressed through Senior Shorthand Typist roles
to become a Manager of Typing Services for the Accounting and Engineering Typing Pools.
(24:40):
In this clip Sadie starts off talking about the training and professional development that she had,
which helped when she implemented a management structure of her own, to manage a very large typing pool.
Sadie then goes on to tell us about leaving the Post Office and what happened next. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Sadie} But the thing the Post Office did do was send you through to Supervising courses.
(25:02):
You know you learnt... you got assistance was going on courses, learning how to deal with people, that kind of thing.
{Eth} So all the way through with the Post Office, you had support for professional development?
{Sadie} Oh absolutely. {Eth} So your Night School, did they help with the fees for that?
{Sadie} No they didn't actually. {Eth} That was your choice? {Sadie} Yeah it was my choice, but ah...
(25:24):
{Eth} But other courses? {Sadie} Yes, I ended up, I ended up running Supervision courses myself, they picked me out
and they trained me to be a trainer. And I ended up running public speaking courses for them,
and it was really fabulous, yes I enjoyed all that. In Finance and Accounts Division,
I only had a couple of Shorthand Typists, the rest were Typists. There was a lot of, ah
(25:48):
as you can imagine, financial work to do, and a lot copy typing and legal, legal forms,
and things like that, yes. Certainly was, down the other end of the office, there was a big data entry room,
and they... huge, huge machines that they used to sort of enter data on. [Typewriter ding sound]
Yeah, I came back to the Engineering. {Eth} So you'd left the Accounting and you were...?
(26:11):
{Sadie} Accounts I was there for 8 years. {Eth} 8 years, and then you're now into the...?
{Sadie} Back into the Engineering Chiefs Office. {Eth} How many people in that?
{Sadie} 46. {Eth} That was a very big typing... {Sadie} Yeah. But that was, that was a place that had the satellite places.
So they were people placed in different areas around Wellington.
So, so what I did because it was a bit of a mess actually, so what I did is I made people, you know,
(26:38):
I had about, I think three Senior Typists/Shorthand Typists, and so each of the satellite areas, I put somebody in charge.
So at the time, I had a meeting every week to say 'Tell me your problems.'
And so I'd get everybody to sort them, and in the end it was really great.
I so proud of them, great running place, yeah. {Eth} Yeah, so you set up a management structure
(27:01):
in effect for the typing pool. {Sadie} Yes, and so I made those seniors... {Eth} Yep. {Sadie} I empowered those Seniors,
they're in control and you know, not me, I'm not going to solve the problems. You solve the problems.
And they actually loved it. They really loved it. {Eth} I can believe it.
{Sadie} And I got such respect from them, it was amazing.
(27:22):
{Eth} So what year did you leave the Post Office? {Sadie} Was 1988. I decided to do left brain stuff,
and I went to Wellington High School and took on a course, short story writing.
Which I ended up running it. So I did that for a year, that was really fabulous.
(27:43):
I had a couple of things published. {Eth} Cool. {Sadie} Like it's really hard work to get money for it.
And get the salary going. So I... and in that time, it was about three years.
There had been big changes, like, Wordperfect had come in,
I had no idea what that was, you know Wang had gone out, really. {Eth} Yup.
(28:06):
{Sadie} And then it was Wordperfect. So I went to a... got private tuition on that,
on Wordperfect. So I came back and that's when I joined the Fire Service,
and that's when I became Board Secretariat. And then went through a whole lot of harrowing issues there
(28:28):
with the Chairman and the Union that was horrible time, he resigned.
And then Dame Margaret Bazley came in and took over, and I was with her for 12 years.
And that was extremely interesting because she had fingers in so many pies, doing so many reviews,
and I met a lot of fabulous people through her. Once again, broaden my knowledge of what goes on,
(28:52):
in this world. {Eth} So then you finished when Dame Margaret retired?
{Sadie} Yeah she retired. I still stayed at the Fire Service but because really she had retired,
my job to her, I was called her Private Secretarial.
So I left, took redundancy from that... and uhm, got the job here. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(29:18):
{Presenter} At the time of her interview in 2019, Sadie was still working full-time for an organisation
supplying Management Services to DHBs, and other Health organisations. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
Sarah's long career with the Department of Social Welfare has meant a lot of movement, both in different locations,
and around, various support roles. In this clip, she tells Judith about the pathways that exist within the department
(29:43):
and her role today as an Executive Assistant. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Judith} So what's your position? {Sarah} I'm an Executive Assistant to the Regional Director.
And we've got 3 Regional directors here, so we've got 3 EAs as well. We're called EAs, so we've got three of them.
Yeah, we just pretty much, and again... {Judith} So what's the range of your work for him? For you, is it a he or she?
(30:04):
{Sarah] They're all women at the moment here. We're going to get... a male's coming soon. The range of our work is crazy,
it's not, and it's not about typing. I mean we type reports, we answer emails, we take phone calls,
we deal with complaints, we manage our RD's emails, we will put some stuff in their calendars.
We do bookings, we do all sorts of stuff, but we're mainly their in-between for their managers,
(30:28):
yep, so we've got, in Auckland we've got what 33 offices, and all of those managers
If they get stuck, two of us deal with the Frontline. And I'm never had any like, for me because a lot of the people in here
have come from Case Manager. Like if you're Frontline interested, it's Case Manager, Service Centre Trainer,
this Trainer, that Service Centre... you know, all of that, and I hadn't really done those ranks.
(30:50):
I had in the typing area, typing pool, gone up the ranks. But in Front line, I was, because I'd been in Regional Office,
I was able to go into Management, quite early. Didn't really enjoy that.
So that's, I backed off on that one. But looking at it again. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} After leaving the Airforce in the early 70s, Maureen took a two-year OE to London where
(31:12):
she utilised her typing skills, working for a UK government Department that had been set up
to compensate folks who had had their houses confiscated during World War II.
Upon her return to New Zealand, Maureen took a role with Child Welfare for a short time,
as the nature of the work was upsetting. So she moved to the Probation Service as Manager of Typing.
(31:33):
However, it wasn't long before her boss promoted Maureen into a Trainer role, which she eventually
did for the next 26 years. Training staff across the whole service and throughout the country. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Maureen} But I had started, or the boss had started me on training properly then.
And it got to that I was training right across the country. {Eth} Yeah. So you spent 28 years there?
(32:01):
So, how long were you in that Managing the Admin Services role, before you started training?
Pretty well straight away? {Maureen} Yeah. And the Boss had sent me on to do those Teaching Diplomas as well.
Then I had to train the Manager Typing Services to take over after me because,
I was spending too much time away from home. Yeah so virtually I did that until, crikey,
(32:30):
I did another trip across to London for another two years.
And I went over and then realised that I could become a British Citizen,
dual passport-ed, through my Grandmother, so I actually spend eight and a half years over there.
I did a lot of travel in those couple of periods that I had over in London.
(32:53):
Actually managed to get to 95 countries, and I still haven't reached 100 yet. [Laughter]
And then I must be just about up to the time of retiring, I did have an interesting working life.
[Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Robin started her Public Service career, with the Ministry of Energy in the early 1980s,
(33:18):
and in the 90s moved into Personal Assistant roles with the Canterbury DHB,
eventually progressing into a PA role to the General Manager of Ngai Tahu, a role that she enjoyed.
However, in the early 2000s, Robin decided to take tentative steps into setting up her own
Secretarial Business. In this clip, Robin tells Eth about how she managed the transition
(33:39):
to self employment. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} And then? {Robin} And then... {Eth} What happened? {Robin} And then I kind of... my average time in an organisation
was about four years. After four years, I'd start to get itchy feet and think 'No I've been there, done that.'
I'm looking for a new challenge. And I started to think that, sort of about into my fourth year at Ngai Tahu.
(34:05):
Love the people, love the job, growing organisation. And I kind of thought about,
my role as a PA, and my secretarial life, and I loved the role but I kept thinking
if I move out of this organisation and I go and be a PA for somebody else,
I'm just going to be doing the same work again, in a different organisation.
(34:27):
I'm looking for a new challenge.
And so I thought I could take my skills and set up my own business.
It was a really, really scary thought. {Eth} Yeah. {Robin} But I did a lot of personal development that year,
supported by Ngai Tahu even if that meant, that they knew they were going to lose me.
(34:48):
I...and I was also studying for a Diploma in Management at that time.
Uhm, I... I bit the bullet, and decided that that's what I was going to do,
come the year 2000. So I talked to my manager about it,
(35:09):
she was really supportive because she was going to be leaving at the end of that year,
so she had no vested interest in me staying, and we worked out a deal.
Where I would work for her for four days a week, and then, on the fifth day,
I'd have off and that was the day I would use to try and get some clients for my secretarial business.
(35:30):
I did not have the confidence, and it would be too risky, for me to just leave a job.
A well-paying job without any clients or some kind of regular income coming in. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} Sandra had a couple of years work experience, outside of Government, before she started
(35:51):
her Medical Typist career, as part of the Board Administration team, at Gisborne Hospital,
in a Junior Typist role eventually progressing to a Secretarial PA role. After 6 years at the Hospital
she took a Management Support role for the Conservator of the Department of Conservation,
in Gisborne, in 1991. In 2009, after a restructure Sandra began working in the Communications team
(36:17):
for DOC, which sparked her interest in writing.
In this clip, Sandra tells Eth about how she is planning for her future,
with her sights set on her own business. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Sandra} But then there comes a time when you have to kind of look ahead and think well do I still
want to be doing this in another ten years time? {Eth} Right. {Sandra} And in the Comms & Media space,
(36:38):
it's quite tight in Gisborne too. A lot of people tend to stay in roles a long time, and it's quite a competitive field.
And I do think they do prefer the younger ones.
And and you know, I accept that. If that's the way it is, that's the way it is, so you can't change that.
But it is quite disappointing when you do go for jobs and you feel that, yeah.
(37:02):
That you are judged by your age, yet you bring a whole wealth of experience.
Yeah so I decided actually about three years ago that I wanted to do something different.
And I know other people that do know, freelance writing, and that type of thing.
I thought, oh maybe I should do something like that, but I quite like the Heritage Research stuff,
(37:23):
because I've done a little bit of that, at DOC, some interpretation projects that we've done.
So that might be quite a good area to do, you know? Because it doesn't seem to be many people,
well I don't think there's anyone in Gisborne actually doing it, I think the people outside of Gisborne,
but I don't know f anyone else here doing that. So it's a like a little bit of a niche.
So I started just doing a little bit of that, so I started just doing a few contracts and uhm,
(37:50):
started the business and I managed to negotiate with DOC that I could just work 4 days.
And then like on the Friday I would spend on my business and sometimes on weekends as well.
And at the same time I decided oh yes, I'd better get a Degree, a Comms Degree while I'm at it.
Just to tidy up that little package just, you know, just so people will actually take you seriously.
(38:12):
So there's been a few little contracts but it has been quite difficult with working. {Eth} Yes.
{Sandra} Because you have to actually network a lot more, and that's something, I find when I network, I get the contract
if I don't network I don't get anything because it's the sort of work that people don't necessarily go looking for.
It's not like go to the, you know, the cafe to get a cup of coffee.
(38:36):
You, you know what I mean? It's, it's not necessarily the type of work that everyone's going to be looking for.
So you do have to be quite targeted. So yeah, that's why I recently I decided, I think I'm probably better to focus
more on the business, and my study at the same time, and you know, that's where I'm sort of looking to head.
(38:57):
{Eth} So, what degree are you doing? And how are you doing that?
{Sandra} So I'm doing a Bachelor of Applied Science,
so I think it's called in Communications as a major, it had a title name.
I don't know why they change the titles, but they do. {Eth} Yeah. {Sandra} With the Open Polytechnic.
So it's distance learning, which can be trying at times as well.
(39:19):
{Eth} It's very lonely, isn't it?. {Sandra} Yeah, yeah. {Eth} Hard to find someone to bounce your thinking off,
or to talk about... {Sandra| Yeah. {Eth} ... a topic with. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} We leave the last words about Life in the Typing Pools to Mary Dooley, who witnessed all 437 00:39:35,088--> 00:39:40,088 the changes to the Public Service, over her 43-year career. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(39:40):
{Mary} They were being phased out in the 1990s, early 1990s. The word was... well long before that,
the word was, you'll never need shorthand anymore. But we found that the senior people
did prefer to have a shorthand typist to do their work, rather than a dictaphone.
(40:02):
A lot of the new up-and-coming people probably use dictaphone since then, I'm not sure,
but they also use... gave computers to most of the clerical divisions,
and they thought that they would be doing their own typing. But we found that if it was going to be
you know, ministerial replies or things like that, they had to have more of a professional touch. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
(40:31):
{Presenter} Now we spotlight the only surviving Typing Pool still in existence today, that of the Medical Typists
and Transcriptionists working in small groups, across rotating shifts, for District Health Boards
up and down the country. Transcribing clinical and surgical patient notes is a specialist field,
which requires being able to learn, retain and recall, complex medical terminology
(40:52):
for Healthcare practitioners, who use digital voice recognition, which typists then transcribe for clarity and accuracy.
The next set of clips are women who have worked, or still work as Medical Typists. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
In 1964, Jan secured her first Medical Typist role in the Waikato Hospital Typing Pool,
for the Orthopaedic Department and Obstetrics & Gynaecology.
(41:14):
Although she only stayed a year in this position, this early experience helped Jan to get her next Medical Typist role,
with Rotorua Hospital in 1979. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So, you spent a year there, what made you think you'd like to move?
{Jan} I suddenly decided I like the idea. I had, my eldest sister-in-law's Mother was associated
(41:37):
with Waikato Hospital and she was in one of the... ran... helped run one of the Nurse's Homes,
and she must have mentioned it, there was a job going in the Typing Pool
at Waikato Hospital. And and the pay was about 2 pounds more.
And so rather than early 8 pounds and threepence an hour, and paying six pence tax.
(42:00):
What year? 1956... 1963 when I started work, so this was 1964.
So, yes, I worked there for about a year in that Typing Pool.
It was... it was interesting because I was associated with Orthopaedics,
and O&G, and Obstetrics and Gynie. And for Clinics, we would set off for the Clinics,
(42:27):
with our typewriter on a trolley, an Orderly would come across and get the typewriter on the trolley,
and we, we would have got all of the relevant files, I think we did.
Actually, I can't remember whether we did or not, but however, yeah so we'd be there and the Consultants
would see the patient, would come in and dictate and you would either type it then and there or take it down in shorthand, yes.
(42:50):
{Eth} But what sort of routine in that particular... Pool? {Jan} Oh in the Typing Pool? {Eth} Yeah.
{Jan} Uhm well, it all depended on, it depended on what time the Clinics were.
And of course, we did, we typed, I can't remember whether we typed Admissions as well,
but I don't think we did. I think we just... did Clinics and the letters going out to the GPs,
(43:15):
from the Clinics and Discharge letters of patients from Wards.
There was no... there didn't seem to be the pressure... of getting things done by a certain time. [Typewriter ding sound]
It was 1979 when I went to work at Rotorua Hospital in the Typing Pool there. {Eth} Right, so...
(43:38):
a significant gap? {Jan} Yes. {Eth} What were the changes? {Jan} No shorthand, it was dicta-typing.
{Eth} Yes, so that's a significant change. {Jan} And we were doing Admissions, Ops and Ward rounds,
and Discharge letters. So that's what we were doing.
{Eth} At that point you became a Medical Typist? {Jan} Yes, I was there from 1979 until about '84 I think.
(44:02):
And then I shifted over to the new Psych Unit, I thought 'Hmmm that's sounds interesting'.
So I was the only typist in the Psych Unit. {Eth} So you were a single typists there?
{Jan} Yes that's right. And again, like there would be in Waikato Hospital one.. 'Can't hear what he's saying'.
And other doctors with beards... crackle away in the, in the dictaphone, and other ones would have the
(44:24):
the sound way up! [Laughter] [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Sheree started in the typing pool at Gisborne Hospital in 1976, with manual typewriters
and carbon copies. Over the last 45 years, she has seen many advancements in technology,
worked in many different parts of the Hospital, and in the latter part of her career has had to juggle
(44:45):
large volumes of work, often under time pressure, with the necessity to ensure accuracy. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So you would have been 17 going on 18, when you finish School?
{Sheree} Yes, my first job was with McCulloch Butler and Spence, which was quite a big accounting firm,
here in Gisborne at the time. And I started off as the Group Junior, I did a wee bit of typing,
(45:09):
not too much, and then I went to the accounting bookkeeping machines,
I was there three years and I came to Gisborne Hospital when I was 20, in 1976.
And it'll be 45 years in February (2021).
And when I first started, I did the Mail for example, and I typed the Theatre List out,
(45:30):
and it was all carbon copies. {Eth} Yes. {Sheree} There was no photocopier, the nearest thing to a photocopier
was something called a Gestetner, and of course we weren't allowed to use that, 505 00:45:41,0888 --> 00:45:47,088 that was just for the Chief Executives Office and their staff.
{Eth} So they were just four or five of you in that Typing Pool? {Sheree} Yes.
(45:52):
{Eth} Did you have a Head Typist? {Sheree} No, not really, no no. I was in this situation for about 12 months.
{Eth} Yep. {Sheree} And then a Geriatrician started at the Hospital, and he had his own Department.
And I went there to be his Secretary and he held Clinics over there. and it was a Ward as well.
(46:13):
And they also did a... I also helped with a Research project.
Yes, I was out on my own there for a while, for about 3 years.
{Eth} How did work come in? {Sheree} Well the notes, the case notes, patient's files and the tape
used to come in, be delivered, to us. {Eth inaudible question} {Sheree} Yeah, Theatre lists would be hand delivered,
and then you'd ring the Orderly to deliver the Theatre List. The Doctors would come in and sign their letters,
(46:39):
or Discharge Summaries whatever it was. So if we got through our work,
we'd go off into the Records Department and help them with their filing,
or we'd go down to the Switchboard and answer a few calls, that sort of thing.
{Eth} You had that old... {Sheree} Pull in, push plug thingy. {Eth} I learned those as well.
{Sheree} The new hospital, as in Gisborne Hospital, we moved down to where we are now in about '85.
(47:09):
Other Departments moved earlier, but it was a gradual process.
No it was the great when we came down here, lovely new hospital.
The hospital has kind of been my life in a way, I'm not only an employee, I'm also a long-term patient.
And I've got to know the staff very well over the years.
(47:33):
Yes they have come and gone, and it's the people that I think matter the most, they make it durable.
They make it a good place to work, so you want to come to work. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Deborah spent 20 years with Inland Revenue, starting out in a typing pool,
but then moved on to other roles, such as team leader, supervisor, cashier, mail lady, telephones,
(47:59):
and as a PA in the Call Centre. She was even in charge of responding to bomb threats.
After having her daughter and a period of part-time work, she started her Medical Typist career
at Waikato Hospital's Radiology Department in 2008.
At the time of her interview in 2019, Deborah was still working as a Medical Typist,
but now at Middlemore Hospital, in Auckland. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(48:22):
{Deborah} And in the meantime I had been applying for any jobs that were going, and I applied for 3 jobs
at Waikato Hospital. I think there was Cardiology, Orthopaedics and Radiology,
and I got a Radiology position at Waikato Hospital in 2008.
And there was a uniform, you had to wear like, a nurses uniform... {Judith} Oh really? {Deborah} You know,
(48:45):
like the smocks, blue smocks. {Judith} Oh yes. {Deborah} Yeah. {Judith} And what was the work environment there?
{Deborah} Like was a pool of like, 4 ladies and there was like a mini barrier wall like that. So with two on this side,
and two on the other side. And it was very different, because you typed the work, it was typed up,
you printed it off. {Judith} So what reports from the Radiologist? {Deborah} Radiologist, yep. Yep. Yep.
(49:06):
{Judith} Did you have to learn much technical language? {Deborah} I did yes. And that's what I did is my own...
made up my own words, ah excel spreadsheet with all my words. I've got all my alphabetical words 'A's.
I've got like another one that's got all my Drug names, all my Stent names.
{Judith} Does anybody else use it? {Deborah} I've given it to a couple of other people now. They've said it's actually brilliant.
(49:27):
{Judith} Brilliant. {Deborah} It is, yeah and I still use it now, to this day. {Judith} Brilliant.
So I was only at Waikato from I think it was like May til December 2008.
And there was something like 4,000 jobs in the queue. {Judith} Really? {Deborah} And I had to start at
4 o'clock on a Monday and a Tuesday night. So I had to wait for somebody to leave to get their... to use their PC. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
(49:52):
{Presenter} Jill's long career in the Public Service started as a Shorthand Typist in the Department of Internal Affairs,
in 1968. Soon promoted to Senior Shorthand Typist 2 years later. Marrying in 1970,
she moved to Hamilton working for Department of Labour, and then Lands and Survey
as Deputy Head Typist before moving once again to Gisborne, where Jill worked for the State Advances,
(50:14):
part of the Housing Corp. Leaving from there to start a family, she returned to part-time work in a variety of jobs,
in both private and Government departments, lived overseas with her second husband,
and eventually found her way to her current role, at Gisborne Hospital. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So, what does your title here at the Hospital, now? {Jill} Clinical Secretary. {Eth} Yep. And you largely type notes...
(50:38):
{Jill} Dictaphone, it's all dictaphone, admins, rosters, uhm, oh we have to do for cancer patients,
these special PET scan things that have to be organised and they're urgent.
When that comes up you've got to do that straight away. And that's quite an involved process,
(51:00):
organising the transport to get them to Waikato, organising the scans to be uploaded, to be accessed by other hospitals.
And and then they have MDM's - Multidisciplinary Meetings to do with cancer patients and that's a
(51:22):
referral to Waikato which has to also be done.
{Eth} So you type a lot of Specialists notes and... {Jill} Hmmm.
{Eth} And is that done through something like Winscribe or it's done through a central system? Or are they still using... ?
{Jill} They still used dictaphones. {Eth} Yep.
{Jill} I do, have been doing, mostly Surgical Orthopaedics and General Surgery.
(51:46):
The girls next door to us, do all the Medical or the Physicians,
And if we've got time, we help them. And now I've just taken on Gynaecology.
And we're changing the way we work things, a wee bit. So that everybody's up to the same stage,
which is annoying because I work faster than some of the others, yes. [Laughter]
(52:10):
Yes, uhm, backup for the ENT girl, and for Orthopaedics and General Surgery.
And... it's my first priority at the moment is Gynaecology,
which is a whole new field for me. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Starting her career in Local Government in 1977, Sally C gained valuable skills in the '80s
(52:35):
with all the latest technologies, during a stint working in Australia.
Back in New Zealand, she began working for Wanganui DHB in the early 90s, in data entry, PA,
and HR roles, before finding her way to the Inpatient Scheduling Typing Pool. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Sally C} And I went into the typing pool, Inpatient Scheduling at the Hospital. 585 00:52:59,088 --> 00:53:03,088 {Rose} And was that big or... ? {Sally C} Yeah, yeah, it was a big team over there, still is really.
(53:03):
Yeah it's probably about five or six Typists with me, and then they had, uhm, probably about the same
number of Schedulers as well. And so we were in 2 offices, there were some us on one side,
and some on the other side of this big corridor. And so basically I was... just in there, doing typing.
(53:29):
And then the other thing that we had to do, so our... it was basically dictaphone typing, with tapes,
and I had one surgeon that I had to do typing for... gawd, he was just impossible! He's a terrible mumbler.
And I used to think, after a while, I just had to sort of close my eyes, and just sort of weed my way through it
(53:56):
because being a Surgeon, he would do... 'salpingo-oophorectomy' and things like that.
I know, all those sorts... {Rose} So how did you learn to spell the words?!
{Sally C} Our computers were set up to English, New Zealand and then they had a custom dictionary,
it was called Custom CPA, and we still use it. So any words that were misspelt,
(54:23):
would have red underline, and we knew we could either right-mouse click it,
and it would be automatically corrected, or if we were completely off, we'd have to ask the other Typists
what they thought the word was.
And then so often we'd be running around with the tapes to another Typist's tape machine,
(54:45):
and setting the tape, saying 'What do you reckon this is?' You know?
And I would be like 'Oh you that's whatever it is', you know? Diverticulitis or Diverticulosis or, you know,
(56:57):
all that sort of thing, you know? And I used to think 'How do they know all this stuff', you know?
So it was basically trial by fire really. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} This is the wrap up of our Life in the Typing Pool episodes, and there were so many more rich stories
amongst the Keystroke's interviewees that we could have easily had another three.
I'd like to thank our three featured interviewees, Mary Dooley, Lorraine and Mina, who represent a good proportion
of what it was like to spend an entire career within Government.
And I think a great deal of thanks is warranted to these three women for their combined 120 years of service,
to the public of Aotearoa New Zealand. Coming up in Episode 6,
the Impact of Technology, we look at how typewriters evolved, what the introduction of computers,
from data entry to word processors, meant for Typists and how the advent of technologies,
like photocopiers and dictaphones pushed out carbon copies and the use of shorthand. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
The Keystrokes per Minute Project was made possible by funding support from the Ministry of Culture and Heritage
and the Public Services Commission. Listeners can find out more about the project by visiting website
www.storycollective.nz. The soundtrack was kindly provided by permission from the Boston Typewriter Orchestra.
Find their music and merchandise on bandcamp.com. Thanks for listening. [Typewriter ding sound]
Storycollective, untold stories by unheard voices [Sound of typewriters clacking]
Keystrokes per Minute, a limited series podcast about the women of the New Zealand
Public Service Typing Pools from 1945 til the present day.
Haere mai, welcome to Episode 5 Life in the Typing Pool, Part 3.
(00:22):
We start this episode with the stories of where interviewees careers progress to, whether they stayed
in the typing pool, moving into senior or supervisory roles, whether they moved into
other areas of government work or left the Public Service altogether. For those who stayed
the impact of the 1988 State Services Act intersecting with the evolution of new technologies,
(00:43):
saw the beginning of the end of the Public Service Typing Pools. At the time it was reported in
the Dominion Sunday Times '...that a blizzard of legislation, restructurings
and efficiency drives continue to affect the Public Sector.'
In 1989 came reports that a total of 40,000 state jobs had gone in three years.
(01:05):
In the second half of this episode, we put the spotlight on the only typing pool that still exist today
that of the Medical Typists and Transcriptionists in District Health Boards across the country. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
Before we kick off Episode 5, let me introduce listeners to one of the Keystrokes Oral history
project researchers, without whom this podcast would not exist. [Typewriter ding sound]
(01:29):
Hello, kia ora, my name is Eth Lloyd and I am one of the Keystrokes researchers. I became
involved in this project for a series of reasons, but particularly is the voices of this
part of the workforce deserve to be heard and must be retained. Listening to, and
recording the stories of these women, shows the value of the work, the deep pride,
(01:51):
and satisfaction they got from the work, and from doing it to a very high standard.
I hope that those who listen to these these stories also feel pride in the work they did. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} In this opening clip, Mary Dooley explains her progression through the different government departments
and senior positions within the typing pools. Eventually, working her way up to the Manager of Typing Services,
(02:15):
with the Department of Internal Affair, in command of a large group of typists spread out
across satellite pools. Mary, then tells us about how another round of restructuring
was the catalyst for her retirement in 1992, after 43 years service. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Rose} So, you decided when you saw a new... {Mary} Next grading. {Rose} Right.
(02:39):
{Mary} I applied for it.
{Rose} How did you see that job? {Mary} In the Professional Circular, you see, and it just happened to be
very, very seldom, would a graded position come up, in that next grade.
Because they were really tight these grades, you know, the pool, what... the rules were,
that if it was a staff of 10 or under, you were on the lowest grade of a supervisor; 34 00:03:07,028 --> 00:03:14,088 if you had between 10 and 20, or 11 and 20, then you were in the next grade;
(03:14):
and if you had over 20, you were in the next grade, you see? So that's that's the way it worked.
Now, what happened was, Social Welfare was advertising for a... Supervising Typist in Charge,
for their District Office. Now I was in the Department of Health District Office,
(03:35):
so I applied, I didn't think there'd be a problem, I was wrong.
I got the job... but I didn't realise that there was a lady who had been sitting there expecting
to get the job, and she appealed against me. They told me, don't worry, it will all be taken care of.
(03:57):
And it was, and I... and she, she had to take my job on the other department. {Rose} In the Health Department?
{Mary} Yep, the Health Department. [Typewriter ding sound]
I saw a job advertised at the next grade, and it was at Labour Department Head Office, in the Hope Gibbons Building,
on the corner of Taranaki Street and Inglewood Place.
(04:19):
And... I didn't apply because I thought 'Oh there'll be somebody there, sitting in the wings, waiting for this job,
I'm not going to go under... go through that again, so I didn't apply. But about a month later, 51 00:04:33,088 --> 00:04:40,088 I saw the job advertised again. So I thought 'Oh, I'd better put my application in',
(04:40):
and so I did. And I got called for an interview.
And the next thing is I had got the job. [Typewriter ding sound]
Internal Affairs was another very diverse department. Very, very diverse and very, very interesting.
And it had a wide range of subjects that it covered.
(05:02):
{Rose} So you started at... ? {Mary} Internal Affairs in May of 1975,
and I worked there until I retired. 58 00:05:12,0880 --> 00:05:25,080 And I retired in the middle of the year of...1990.. yeah, sorry, 1992.
(05:25):
They decided to restructure and I'd been working for 42 and a half years, at this time,
and I had six months retiring leave due to me.
So I decided not to apply for my job, which was re-advertised as the Manager of Typing Services,
plus Staff Training Officer together.
(05:50):
They decided to include the role of Staff Training Officer for the Department.
And I thought 'Yeah, I don't want to do it. So I just... I, I decided to take my retiring leave and finished up then,
at that stage. Didn't apply for the job, and I was turning 60 in the following January.
(06:13):
So that was my 6 months retiring leave and I was paid up till the end of 1992, 43 years altogether,
[Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} At the end of Episode 4, we heard from New Zealand writer, and poet, Maggie Rainey Smith,
but Maggie is not the only writer to be produced from the typing pools. In this clip Lorraine tells us about
(06:35):
her writing career, which included publishing articles for School Publications,
and that she once wrote a Radio Play about typists in 1979. When the producers said
they had trouble finding an audience, Lorraine knew exactly who to call. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Lorraine} But they sent me out relieving a lot, another time went relieving at School Pubs, which was school Publications,
(06:55):
that was how I was discovered with my writing. Because I did a lot of writing, and they put it in,
in the Department newsletter that I had sold a six-part Radio Play. {Judith} Tell me about that?!
{Lorraine} Oh it was called Typist in Charge, and it was all about a Government typing office,
and it was on at night, half an hour situation comedy. Anyway, they saw that I'd done that... {Judith} It was a series? 81 00:07:20,088 --> 00:07:23,060 {Lorraine} Yes, and they saw it done that in the newsletter, and one of the editors, the current editor
(07:23):
of School Publications came charging into the Typing Room, I was an In-Charge by this time,
just a little In-Charge, there were quite a few In-Charges... and he threw open the door, the editor
and he said, "Where's Lorraine?!" [Laughter] And I said, 'Here, here, here!'
And he said, he waved the newsletter and he said, 'I want you to write for us!'
(07:44):
He said 'You do it tonight' and he walked out again! [Laughter]
{Judith} Thunderstruck! {Lorraine} Yes, so I wrote a play and a short story. He rejected the short story but he took the play,
{Judith} What was the play called? {Lorraine} Elephant in the Garden, it was, it was basic, it was for 5 year olds,
all about how they had this Elephant in the Garden, and about, you know, 'What would they do with it?'
(08:05):
And in the end, they rode it. Mum road down to the shops and everything, but, uhm, and from then
I wrote about 60 more things for them. I was still writing later on, they'll be in the Archives,
because I sent a story to radio a couple of years ago and I said, 'Aw I've been writing for a long... I haven't written for, a year,
for 100 years for you. And when they announced on the radio, here's a new story by so-and-so who's been
(08:26):
writing for us for a long, long time. [Laughter] {Judith} When was that, what was the story?
{Lorraine} The last one? I think it was called Boxing Day Surprise, I'm not too sure. {Judith} When was that?
{Lorraine} A couple of years ago. And when I wrote Typist-in-Charge and Radio New Zealand bought it, they did it live in
Auckland. And I went up, and they said "We haven't, we can't get hold of anybody to come to the audience.'
(08:48):
And I said, 'Give me 10 minutes.' I rang up every typist office in the whole of Auckland in the Government,
and they came in their droves, for three days. They brought their lunch! [Laughter] {Judith} When was this?
{Lorraine} That was, it was... oh I can't remember when it was, long, long... {Judith} Just roughly.
{Lorraine} 78, something like that. It was called Typist in Charge and it didn't get very good reviews,
(09:12):
but all the Typists enjoyed it because I understood what was happening. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} Lorraine's confidence grew, and she started to apply for senior typist roles, but she always had her sights set
on being a Supervising Typist at the Ministry of Education. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Lorraine} But you see what happened with me when I was a Junior, I was talking... my Supervising Typist, who was the top dog.
That was her title in those days Supervising Typist. And then Mrs Rolley, who was the Typist In-Charge, they were talking
(09:37):
and I said, I wanted to be like the Supervising Typist one day and I meant travel the world like her, and Mrs Rolley turned to her,
and said, 'Oh, they want to be like... she wants your job! Hahaha! She wants your job!' and I vowed then and there
I would get her job, and it took me 35 years! [Laughter] No, 30 years and I got it. {Judith} Wonderful. [Laughter] Wonderful.
(10:00):
And was it worth it, when you got it? {Lorraine} Well, see, at the time I was at the Health Department,
I was the Typist-in-Charge for the Health Department, I was one degree below the one I wanted at Education,
one... just one lousy little step, I was now almost there, and then they changed all those rules.
Like I was just telling you, and suddenly they might make my job at Health, the same,
(10:21):
exactly the same level as the one at Education. So I could stay in a beautiful job that I absolutely loved,
but I'd always hankered for this one at Education. So I put in for that one and I got it. [Typewriter carriage return sound] 116 00:10:31,088 --> 00:10:36,088 {Presenter} Lorraine had a remarkable career in the Public Service, and like many of her colleagues was affected greatly
by the restructuring, and rationalising of the Public Service in the '80s and '90s.
Here Lorraine explains what happened to her during this difficult period. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(10:45):
{Lorraine} ...then the restructuring came and they chucked me into a Secretary's job. {Judith} Now tell me about that,
because that was... {Lorraine} That broke my heart. {Judith} Restructuring was what year? {Lorraine} '88, '87 or something
like that, yes. {Judith} Yeah. Traumatic wasn't it? {Lorraine} Well, I did everything that they told me,
I ran courses for the girls, I came up with ideas to help them. What I did was, the girls who weren't on word processors,
(11:11):
I organised it so that they would have lessons from the girls who were on word processors, and
I'd give them a little certificate saying that they learnt it and the girls who'd done the teaching,
I gave them little certificates to say that they had taught. You know, I did all sorts of things
I got films in so they could watch. I did everything that I was told to do,
or that I came up with, all the ideas. {Judith} To prove their worth?
(11:34):
{Lorraine} Yeah, to help everybody during the restructuring process. But nobody... and the only job I could put in for,
of course, was Secretary. There's nothing else, because they got rid of middle management.
And I was, by this time I was I was Manager Typing Services that was my title, but I hardly ever used it because
the men got upset by me using it. One man went to the Boss and complained, why she put Manager Typing Services
(11:54):
on the bottom of this job, and it had to be pointed out to him that my title was Manager Typing Services.
He was in charge of 3, I was in charge of 33. [Laughter] The absolute worst thing that broke my heart,
I didn't realise this for 10 years afterwards, was that nobody told me,
nobody ever thought to tell me that I could have jumped grades. I could have, I've been doing nothing
(12:16):
but staff training for 15 years and I could have gone into Staff Training. But me being a stupid little typist,
who'd been trained to be a typist all my life, never thought twice that I could go out of the Typists grade.
{Judith} And nobody told... {Lorraine} Nobody... nobody told me that. We went on courses, and
what to do, and how to get through it, and nobody so much said, you can go, you can change grades.
(12:38):
You know... or classes I mean. {Judith} Extraordinary. {Lorraine} So I was in a Secretary job and I couldn't do it.
I was hopeless, I wasn't a Secretary. I couldn't make cups of tea, and be nice, and... and answer phones,
it was hopeless. And I almost had a nervous breakdown through it. {Judith} Really?
(12:58):
{Lorraine} So in the end they decided I don't know, they talked to me and I called the Union in,
and the girl I was secretary for said, had told the Union, if Lorraine doesn't resign from the Government,
we will make it public, how bad... not how bad she is, but we'll make it... we'll tell the whole world,
(13:19):
what's happened? Yeah, but I didn't matter, I said, I'll write this hilarious article all about her, how it went
and they didn't want that, so, so in the end they gave me my salary for two years at the high level.
And so what I did was I took a Staff Typist job in Education, in a little outlying office, for two years,
and licked my wounds on the same salary that I'd had as I'd been an In-Charge.
(13:40):
And then at the end of that, two years, when I felt I'd licked my wounds enough, I put in for a Typist-in-Charge job
at Survey and Land Information, same salary.[Laughter] And I negotiated that my superannuation stayed the same,
and I loved it, absolutely adored it. I was in charge of four girls, same salary, lovely people.
Absolutely adored it. {Judith} Thank goodness for that. {Lorraine} Yeah. {Judith} What a horrible experience.
(14:04):
{Lorraine} But of course, that was just beginning, happens all the time to people nowadays. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} We're glad to say that Lorraine thoroughly enjoys her retirement.
Having now traveled the world and as a 24-year veteran with her senior class at the gym,
not forgetting the fact she is, still today, a polar bear - someone who swims all year round, no matter the weather. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
(14:27):
{Presenter} Progressing out of the typing pool and to support and Personal Assistant roles,
Mina moved through different Government departments, juggling starting a family at a time when
maternity leave was not available with her first child, to returning from maternity leave
after her second child, only to find herself back in the typing pool.
This situation forced Mina to take action to be reinstated to her preferred role as PA. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(14:52):
{Mina} I went back to the Department and I didn't get my job, working for the Chief Judge, which I expected
because you can't leave a job... I had a whole year off, I had to go back to the Typing Pool.
I hated it, different girls and they're all younger than me. But then I found out that the person
who was in, looking after the Chief Judge, was a Temp (Temporary employee) and pregnant.
(15:15):
And I was... well this is off, so it was Christmas, just before Christmas,
because I had both my children were born at the end ...just before Christmas. When I went back to work in
the New Year, I thought 'Oh bugger them, I'm just going back up.' I went back to the desk and I sat there,
and I said, 'Got any problems see PSA.' But then, uhm, fate stepped in, because the girl, woman had her baby early.
(15:37):
It was mean to be. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} During the 1980s, while working at DSIR, Mina answered a call from an Iwi in the far North to go
and talk about scholarship administration. This led to another new role. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Mina} Actually it lead to another job that I ended up going to, Māori Education Trust and I was the office manager there.
(15:57):
So the Māori Education Trust... when I first came to Wellington, I got a Department of Education Scholarship.
Education put all their Scholarships to the Māori Education Trust,
So it was... I worked there for two years. So it was a great opportunity to for me to pay back. [Typewriter ding sound]
{Presenter} Mina picks up the timeline after moving into Special Education, in a regional role. [Typewriter ding sound]
(16:18):
{Mina} In that five years, I came into Head Office and was the Team Leader Admin,
and so it was good to be back, I missed the buzz of the city, being out in the burbs is pretty quiet.
So I applied for a job at Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry,
(16:39):
looking at the DDG of Policy. And I was there, looked after him for one year, 187 00:16:445,088 --> 00:16:49,088 he went off to become the CE for Environment. I stayed on here for three more years,
because by then my Mother was old and died, and I was Executor of her Will,
it took me three years to sort it out. Once it was sorted out, I went over to Environment.
(16:59):
The person that looked after over here, and looked after Paul Reynolds for 4 years,
until he retired. [Typewriter ding sound] It's one of the things that's kept me in my work,
because you're doing the same old, same old, but the content is different, and the
people are different. It's always very interesting, and I've got this mind where I like to learn. [Typewriter ding sound]
(17:22):
{Presenter} Mina retired from her last role as Executive Assistant to the Director of Communications,
at the Ministry for Primary Industries, in 2020, concluding a 45 year career with the Public Service. [Sound of Typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Valerie had worked at State Insurance, the DSIR, and the Ministry of Defence,
(17:44):
before she started at the Inland Revenue Department, in a typist role.
During her 14 years there, she saw he disestablishment of the Typing Pools, a shift into Administration, 199 00:17:53,088 -->00:18:01,088 and was one of the many typists who found themselves suffering from RSI or Repetitive Strain Injury. [Typewriter carriage returns sound]
{Eth} So you started at Inland Revenue, what year? {Valerie} I started there in 1987.
(18:07):
as I left the Army. {Eth} Yep. {Valerie} And I worked there until 2001.
So I was there a long time. Yes, yes.
And for a start it was more just the ordinary Typing Pool work. But hen, as I say they spread us out and they did a lot of,
(18:30):
you know, letters where the clerical work people only had to fill in gaps.
You know, they would have it on their own computers, and they would just put in, you know, 'Mr Brown',
and all this. So our work went down, and down, and down, yes.
So of course, they were asking us, did we want to work in another area? [Typewriter ding sound]
The changes were happening, people were starting to do their own letters too, and using the Typing Pool a bit less.
(18:56):
So our numbers gradually went down, and down, and then they got this idea
that each typist would be given several people, and they would type for them,
and them alone and it became a bit muddily I felt, in the end.
Some of us were in the Typing Pool, and some of us weren't.
There were still a small Typing Pool and I suppose Joe Bloggs (the average man) took his typing there.
(19:22):
But quite a lot of the Managers seemed to have a set person that did their work.
I seem to sort of float around I think, but I was starting to have quite a lot of problem with RSI,
in the wrists, which had been bothering me for a while.
And so, when I spoke to them about it, they got me to go and do in about an hour a day,
(19:47):
in the Administration area, and doing work there, and I really quite enjoyed that.
And I seem to do quite well. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Returning to New Zealand from London after her OE, Leigh returned to work at the Department of Social Welfare,
Finding that the structure had changed completely. All staff now had their own PCs and the Typing Pools
(20:08):
were essentially defunct, with Administration support staff grouped into satellite offices,
and another restructure on the horizon. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Leigh} So that was good yeah, a lot of London was good in those years, it was some, yeah,
it was fun, it was really good fun. Lots of friend come over to visit. Ahm so that what I've been '80
(20:31):
uhm early 80s. Then I had to come home, so wasn't really... so had to leave the UK.
Our working visas expired, and then 'Ahh what am I going to do?'
I'll just have to go back home, or maybe go to Australia, that might be a bit more exciting.
{Judith inaudible comment} {Leigh} Yeah, sort of the prospect of coming to back to Christchurch,
was just... after you've sort of had this really, you know, fun, buzzy time. {Judith} Swinging London. {Leigh} Yeah, yeah.
(20:59):
It was okay, so actually come back to work, rang up the Social Welfare Department to see,
you know, if there were any jobs going there, or had met somebody who said,
'Yeah, look, I'm sure there was something, come in, sort of thing. And so yes, sure enough! [Laughter]
Uhm so that... but the Department had changed quite a lot, had broken out into satellite offices.
And what did I do? I went into... I don't think there was... the Typing Pool wasn't there, I don't think.
(21:25):
{Judith inaudible comment} {Leigh} Everybody was either on PC, and you wrote, you know you did your own PC letters,
sort of thing. Uhm but I had, so I had a Clerical role in the Southern Accounting Centre,
it was, and it was based out at Papanui. There was a restructure we did,
there was a restructuring as well. That's... {Judith} Of the whole of WINZ (Welfare & Income NZ), or your section?
(21:48):
{Leigh} Ah I think of the whole of WINZ, yeah. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Rosemary had worked for the General Post Office since 1976, progressing to a supervising typist role.
Taking a short OE to Australia in the mid-80s, she was able to return to her Supervising job,
just before a major restructure, in 1987, saw the Post Office split into three separate entities. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(22:14):
{Rosemary} Then I applied for a year's leave without pay, and my boyfriend at the time,
and I, went to Sydney for a year to live.
And then I came back to my job as Supervisor, in the Post Office. And then in 1987,
the Post Office was split into the three corporations. Yes. And because the
(22:37):
Chief Postmasters Office worked across those whole three corporations,
so staff got to choose which corporation they would like to go to.
So I chose to go to Post and I ended up at Telecom. {Judith} Did you? [Laughter]
{Leigh} So, so much for choice. {Judith} So before 1987... to what extent did you know these things were going to happen?
(23:06):
How well prepared was the old Post Office with all its complex arrangements, for that, for that sort of change?
{Rosemary} I think they were somewhat prepared because Post was a separate... New Zealand,
or the Post Office was a separate, the Telecom part was separate.
Yes. So they were quite separate, so it was easy to split them off. But it was the groups like the Chief Postmasters Office,
(23:33):
I think that were... uhm, who went across the whole three. {Judith} They had to be cannibalised.
{Leigh} They had to be cannibalised and there... we also had had a lot of assets that went across the whole three.
So we had to have a Fixed Asset Register Team, aka the FART. [Laughter]
(23:55):
Which had to go round looking at all the assets to see which Corporation they would go to.
That was a huge job, enormous job and I remember it happened really, it was just was so quick,
It just happened really quickly. So I think on the last day of the Post Office,
(24:16):
it just happened with no fanfare. There was no... {Judith} Really? {Leigh} No.
{Judith} Years old institution. {Leigh} Yeah, just ceased to exist. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Sadie started at the General Post Office in 1957, and progressed through Senior Shorthand Typist roles
to become a Manager of Typing Services for the Accounting and Engineering Typing Pools.
(24:40):
In this clip Sadie starts off talking about the training and professional development that she had,
which helped when she implemented a management structure of her own, to manage a very large typing pool.
Sadie then goes on to tell us about leaving the Post Office and what happened next. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Sadie} But the thing the Post Office did do was send you through to Supervising courses.
(25:02):
You know you learnt... you got assistance was going on courses, learning how to deal with people, that kind of thing.
{Eth} So all the way through with the Post Office, you had support for professional development?
{Sadie} Oh absolutely. {Eth} So your Night School, did they help with the fees for that?
{Sadie} No they didn't actually. {Eth} That was your choice? {Sadie} Yeah it was my choice, but ah...
(25:24):
{Eth} But other courses? {Sadie} Yes, I ended up, I ended up running Supervision courses myself, they picked me out
and they trained me to be a trainer. And I ended up running public speaking courses for them,
and it was really fabulous, yes I enjoyed all that. In Finance and Accounts Division,
I only had a couple of Shorthand Typists, the rest were Typists. There was a lot of, ah
(25:48):
as you can imagine, financial work to do, and a lot copy typing and legal, legal forms,
and things like that, yes. Certainly was, down the other end of the office, there was a big data entry room,
and they... huge, huge machines that they used to sort of enter data on. [Typewriter ding sound]
Yeah, I came back to the Engineering. {Eth} So you'd left the Accounting and you were...?
(26:11):
{Sadie} Accounts I was there for 8 years. {Eth} 8 years, and then you're now into the...?
{Sadie} Back into the Engineering Chiefs Office. {Eth} How many people in that?
{Sadie} 46. {Eth} That was a very big typing... {Sadie} Yeah. But that was, that was a place that had the satellite places.
So they were people placed in different areas around Wellington.
So, so what I did because it was a bit of a mess actually, so what I did is I made people, you know,
(26:38):
I had about, I think three Senior Typists/Shorthand Typists, and so each of the satellite areas, I put somebody in charge.
So at the time, I had a meeting every week to say 'Tell me your problems.'
And so I'd get everybody to sort them, and in the end it was really great.
I so proud of them, great running place, yeah. {Eth} Yeah, so you set up a management structure
(27:01):
in effect for the typing pool. {Sadie} Yes, and so I made those seniors... {Eth} Yep. {Sadie} I empowered those Seniors,
they're in control and you know, not me, I'm not going to solve the problems. You solve the problems.
And they actually loved it. They really loved it. {Eth} I can believe it.
{Sadie} And I got such respect from them, it was amazing.
(27:22):
{Eth} So what year did you leave the Post Office? {Sadie} Was 1988. I decided to do left brain stuff,
and I went to Wellington High School and took on a course, short story writing.
Which I ended up running it. So I did that for a year, that was really fabulous.
(27:43):
I had a couple of things published. {Eth} Cool. {Sadie} Like it's really hard work to get money for it.
And get the salary going. So I... and in that time, it was about three years.
There had been big changes, like, Wordperfect had come in,
I had no idea what that was, you know Wang had gone out, really. {Eth} Yup.
(28:06):
{Sadie} And then it was Wordperfect. So I went to a... got private tuition on that,
on Wordperfect. So I came back and that's when I joined the Fire Service,
and that's when I became Board Secretariat. And then went through a whole lot of harrowing issues there
(28:28):
with the Chairman and the Union that was horrible time, he resigned.
And then Dame Margaret Bazley came in and took over, and I was with her for 12 years.
And that was extremely interesting because she had fingers in so many pies, doing so many reviews,
and I met a lot of fabulous people through her. Once again, broaden my knowledge of what goes on,
(28:52):
in this world. {Eth} So then you finished when Dame Margaret retired?
{Sadie} Yeah she retired. I still stayed at the Fire Service but because really she had retired,
my job to her, I was called her Private Secretarial.
So I left, took redundancy from that... and uhm, got the job here. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(29:18):
{Presenter} At the time of her interview in 2019, Sadie was still working full-time for an organisation
supplying Management Services to DHBs, and other Health organisations. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
Sarah's long career with the Department of Social Welfare has meant a lot of movement, both in different locations,
and around, various support roles. In this clip, she tells Judith about the pathways that exist within the department
(29:43):
and her role today as an Executive Assistant. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Judith} So what's your position? {Sarah} I'm an Executive Assistant to the Regional Director.
And we've got 3 Regional directors here, so we've got 3 EAs as well. We're called EAs, so we've got three of them.
Yeah, we just pretty much, and again... {Judith} So what's the range of your work for him? For you, is it a he or she?
(30:04):
{Sarah] They're all women at the moment here. We're going to get... a male's coming soon. The range of our work is crazy,
it's not, and it's not about typing. I mean we type reports, we answer emails, we take phone calls,
we deal with complaints, we manage our RD's emails, we will put some stuff in their calendars.
We do bookings, we do all sorts of stuff, but we're mainly their in-between for their managers,
(30:28):
yep, so we've got, in Auckland we've got what 33 offices, and all of those managers
If they get stuck, two of us deal with the Frontline. And I'm never had any like, for me because a lot of the people in here
have come from Case Manager. Like if you're Frontline interested, it's Case Manager, Service Centre Trainer,
this Trainer, that Service Centre... you know, all of that, and I hadn't really done those ranks.
(30:50):
I had in the typing area, typing pool, gone up the ranks. But in Front line, I was, because I'd been in Regional Office,
I was able to go into Management, quite early. Didn't really enjoy that.
So that's, I backed off on that one. But looking at it again. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} After leaving the Airforce in the early 70s, Maureen took a two-year OE to London where
(31:12):
she utilised her typing skills, working for a UK government Department that had been set up
to compensate folks who had had their houses confiscated during World War II.
Upon her return to New Zealand, Maureen took a role with Child Welfare for a short time,
as the nature of the work was upsetting. So she moved to the Probation Service as Manager of Typing.
(31:33):
However, it wasn't long before her boss promoted Maureen into a Trainer role, which she eventually
did for the next 26 years. Training staff across the whole service and throughout the country. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Maureen} But I had started, or the boss had started me on training properly then.
And it got to that I was training right across the country. {Eth} Yeah. So you spent 28 years there?
(32:01):
So, how long were you in that Managing the Admin Services role, before you started training?
Pretty well straight away? {Maureen} Yeah. And the Boss had sent me on to do those Teaching Diplomas as well.
Then I had to train the Manager Typing Services to take over after me because,
I was spending too much time away from home. Yeah so virtually I did that until, crikey,
(32:30):
I did another trip across to London for another two years.
And I went over and then realised that I could become a British Citizen,
dual passport-ed, through my Grandmother, so I actually spend eight and a half years over there.
I did a lot of travel in those couple of periods that I had over in London.
(32:53):
Actually managed to get to 95 countries, and I still haven't reached 100 yet. [Laughter]
And then I must be just about up to the time of retiring, I did have an interesting working life.
[Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Robin started her Public Service career, with the Ministry of Energy in the early 1980s,
(33:18):
and in the 90s moved into Personal Assistant roles with the Canterbury DHB,
eventually progressing into a PA role to the General Manager of Ngai Tahu, a role that she enjoyed.
However, in the early 2000s, Robin decided to take tentative steps into setting up her own
Secretarial Business. In this clip, Robin tells Eth about how she managed the transition
(33:39):
to self employment. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} And then? {Robin} And then... {Eth} What happened? {Robin} And then I kind of... my average time in an organisation
was about four years. After four years, I'd start to get itchy feet and think 'No I've been there, done that.'
I'm looking for a new challenge. And I started to think that, sort of about into my fourth year at Ngai Tahu.
(34:05):
Love the people, love the job, growing organisation. And I kind of thought about,
my role as a PA, and my secretarial life, and I loved the role but I kept thinking
if I move out of this organisation and I go and be a PA for somebody else,
I'm just going to be doing the same work again, in a different organisation.
(34:27):
I'm looking for a new challenge.
And so I thought I could take my skills and set up my own business.
It was a really, really scary thought. {Eth} Yeah. {Robin} But I did a lot of personal development that year,
supported by Ngai Tahu even if that meant, that they knew they were going to lose me.
(34:48):
I...and I was also studying for a Diploma in Management at that time.
Uhm, I... I bit the bullet, and decided that that's what I was going to do,
come the year 2000. So I talked to my manager about it,
(35:09):
she was really supportive because she was going to be leaving at the end of that year,
so she had no vested interest in me staying, and we worked out a deal.
Where I would work for her for four days a week, and then, on the fifth day,
I'd have off and that was the day I would use to try and get some clients for my secretarial business.
(35:30):
I did not have the confidence, and it would be too risky, for me to just leave a job.
A well-paying job without any clients or some kind of regular income coming in. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Presenter} Sandra had a couple of years work experience, outside of Government, before she started
(35:51):
her Medical Typist career, as part of the Board Administration team, at Gisborne Hospital,
in a Junior Typist role eventually progressing to a Secretarial PA role. After 6 years at the Hospital
she took a Management Support role for the Conservator of the Department of Conservation,
in Gisborne, in 1991. In 2009, after a restructure Sandra began working in the Communications team
(36:17):
for DOC, which sparked her interest in writing.
In this clip, Sandra tells Eth about how she is planning for her future,
with her sights set on her own business. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Sandra} But then there comes a time when you have to kind of look ahead and think well do I still
want to be doing this in another ten years time? {Eth} Right. {Sandra} And in the Comms & Media space,
(36:38):
it's quite tight in Gisborne too. A lot of people tend to stay in roles a long time, and it's quite a competitive field.
And I do think they do prefer the younger ones.
And and you know, I accept that. If that's the way it is, that's the way it is, so you can't change that.
But it is quite disappointing when you do go for jobs and you feel that, yeah.
(37:02):
That you are judged by your age, yet you bring a whole wealth of experience.
Yeah so I decided actually about three years ago that I wanted to do something different.
And I know other people that do know, freelance writing, and that type of thing.
I thought, oh maybe I should do something like that, but I quite like the Heritage Research stuff,
(37:23):
because I've done a little bit of that, at DOC, some interpretation projects that we've done.
So that might be quite a good area to do, you know? Because it doesn't seem to be many people,
well I don't think there's anyone in Gisborne actually doing it, I think the people outside of Gisborne,
but I don't know f anyone else here doing that. So it's a like a little bit of a niche.
So I started just doing a little bit of that, so I started just doing a few contracts and uhm,
(37:50):
started the business and I managed to negotiate with DOC that I could just work 4 days.
And then like on the Friday I would spend on my business and sometimes on weekends as well.
And at the same time I decided oh yes, I'd better get a Degree, a Comms Degree while I'm at it.
Just to tidy up that little package just, you know, just so people will actually take you seriously.
(38:12):
So there's been a few little contracts but it has been quite difficult with working. {Eth} Yes.
{Sandra} Because you have to actually network a lot more, and that's something, I find when I network, I get the contract
if I don't network I don't get anything because it's the sort of work that people don't necessarily go looking for.
It's not like go to the, you know, the cafe to get a cup of coffee.
(38:36):
You, you know what I mean? It's, it's not necessarily the type of work that everyone's going to be looking for.
So you do have to be quite targeted. So yeah, that's why I recently I decided, I think I'm probably better to focus
more on the business, and my study at the same time, and you know, that's where I'm sort of looking to head.
(38:57):
{Eth} So, what degree are you doing? And how are you doing that?
{Sandra} So I'm doing a Bachelor of Applied Science,
so I think it's called in Communications as a major, it had a title name.
I don't know why they change the titles, but they do. {Eth} Yeah. {Sandra} With the Open Polytechnic.
So it's distance learning, which can be trying at times as well.
(39:19):
{Eth} It's very lonely, isn't it?. {Sandra} Yeah, yeah. {Eth} Hard to find someone to bounce your thinking off,
or to talk about... {Sandra| Yeah. {Eth} ... a topic with. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} We leave the last words about Life in the Typing Pools to Mary Dooley, who witnessed all 437 00:39:35,088--> 00:39:40,088 the changes to the Public Service, over her 43-year career. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(39:40):
{Mary} They were being phased out in the 1990s, early 1990s. The word was... well long before that,
the word was, you'll never need shorthand anymore. But we found that the senior people
did prefer to have a shorthand typist to do their work, rather than a dictaphone.
(40:02):
A lot of the new up-and-coming people probably use dictaphone since then, I'm not sure,
but they also use... gave computers to most of the clerical divisions,
and they thought that they would be doing their own typing. But we found that if it was going to be
you know, ministerial replies or things like that, they had to have more of a professional touch. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
(40:31):
{Presenter} Now we spotlight the only surviving Typing Pool still in existence today, that of the Medical Typists
and Transcriptionists working in small groups, across rotating shifts, for District Health Boards
up and down the country. Transcribing clinical and surgical patient notes is a specialist field,
which requires being able to learn, retain and recall, complex medical terminology
(40:52):
for Healthcare practitioners, who use digital voice recognition, which typists then transcribe for clarity and accuracy.
The next set of clips are women who have worked, or still work as Medical Typists. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
In 1964, Jan secured her first Medical Typist role in the Waikato Hospital Typing Pool,
for the Orthopaedic Department and Obstetrics & Gynaecology.
(41:14):
Although she only stayed a year in this position, this early experience helped Jan to get her next Medical Typist role,
with Rotorua Hospital in 1979. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So, you spent a year there, what made you think you'd like to move?
{Jan} I suddenly decided I like the idea. I had, my eldest sister-in-law's Mother was associated
(41:37):
with Waikato Hospital and she was in one of the... ran... helped run one of the Nurse's Homes,
and she must have mentioned it, there was a job going in the Typing Pool
at Waikato Hospital. And and the pay was about 2 pounds more.
And so rather than early 8 pounds and threepence an hour, and paying six pence tax.
(42:00):
What year? 1956... 1963 when I started work, so this was 1964.
So, yes, I worked there for about a year in that Typing Pool.
It was... it was interesting because I was associated with Orthopaedics,
and O&G, and Obstetrics and Gynie. And for Clinics, we would set off for the Clinics,
(42:27):
with our typewriter on a trolley, an Orderly would come across and get the typewriter on the trolley,
and we, we would have got all of the relevant files, I think we did.
Actually, I can't remember whether we did or not, but however, yeah so we'd be there and the Consultants
would see the patient, would come in and dictate and you would either type it then and there or take it down in shorthand, yes.
(42:50):
{Eth} But what sort of routine in that particular... Pool? {Jan} Oh in the Typing Pool? {Eth} Yeah.
{Jan} Uhm well, it all depended on, it depended on what time the Clinics were.
And of course, we did, we typed, I can't remember whether we typed Admissions as well,
but I don't think we did. I think we just... did Clinics and the letters going out to the GPs,
(43:15):
from the Clinics and Discharge letters of patients from Wards.
There was no... there didn't seem to be the pressure... of getting things done by a certain time. [Typewriter ding sound]
It was 1979 when I went to work at Rotorua Hospital in the Typing Pool there. {Eth} Right, so...
(43:38):
a significant gap? {Jan} Yes. {Eth} What were the changes? {Jan} No shorthand, it was dicta-typing.
{Eth} Yes, so that's a significant change. {Jan} And we were doing Admissions, Ops and Ward rounds,
and Discharge letters. So that's what we were doing.
{Eth} At that point you became a Medical Typist? {Jan} Yes, I was there from 1979 until about '84 I think.
(44:02):
And then I shifted over to the new Psych Unit, I thought 'Hmmm that's sounds interesting'.
So I was the only typist in the Psych Unit. {Eth} So you were a single typists there?
{Jan} Yes that's right. And again, like there would be in Waikato Hospital one.. 'Can't hear what he's saying'.
And other doctors with beards... crackle away in the, in the dictaphone, and other ones would have the
(44:24):
the sound way up! [Laughter] [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Sheree started in the typing pool at Gisborne Hospital in 1976, with manual typewriters
and carbon copies. Over the last 45 years, she has seen many advancements in technology,
worked in many different parts of the Hospital, and in the latter part of her career has had to juggle
(44:45):
large volumes of work, often under time pressure, with the necessity to ensure accuracy. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So you would have been 17 going on 18, when you finish School?
{Sheree} Yes, my first job was with McCulloch Butler and Spence, which was quite a big accounting firm,
here in Gisborne at the time. And I started off as the Group Junior, I did a wee bit of typing,
(45:09):
not too much, and then I went to the accounting bookkeeping machines,
I was there three years and I came to Gisborne Hospital when I was 20, in 1976.
And it'll be 45 years in February (2021).
And when I first started, I did the Mail for example, and I typed the Theatre List out,
(45:30):
and it was all carbon copies. {Eth} Yes. {Sheree} There was no photocopier, the nearest thing to a photocopier
was something called a Gestetner, and of course we weren't allowed to use that, 505 00:45:41,0888 --> 00:45:47,088 that was just for the Chief Executives Office and their staff.
{Eth} So they were just four or five of you in that Typing Pool? {Sheree} Yes.
(45:52):
{Eth} Did you have a Head Typist? {Sheree} No, not really, no no. I was in this situation for about 12 months.
{Eth} Yep. {Sheree} And then a Geriatrician started at the Hospital, and he had his own Department.
And I went there to be his Secretary and he held Clinics over there. and it was a Ward as well.
(46:13):
And they also did a... I also helped with a Research project.
Yes, I was out on my own there for a while, for about 3 years.
{Eth} How did work come in? {Sheree} Well the notes, the case notes, patient's files and the tape
used to come in, be delivered, to us. {Eth inaudible question} {Sheree} Yeah, Theatre lists would be hand delivered,
and then you'd ring the Orderly to deliver the Theatre List. The Doctors would come in and sign their letters,
(46:39):
or Discharge Summaries whatever it was. So if we got through our work,
we'd go off into the Records Department and help them with their filing,
or we'd go down to the Switchboard and answer a few calls, that sort of thing.
{Eth} You had that old... {Sheree} Pull in, push plug thingy. {Eth} I learned those as well.
{Sheree} The new hospital, as in Gisborne Hospital, we moved down to where we are now in about '85.
(47:09):
Other Departments moved earlier, but it was a gradual process.
No it was the great when we came down here, lovely new hospital.
The hospital has kind of been my life in a way, I'm not only an employee, I'm also a long-term patient.
And I've got to know the staff very well over the years.
(47:33):
Yes they have come and gone, and it's the people that I think matter the most, they make it durable.
They make it a good place to work, so you want to come to work. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Deborah spent 20 years with Inland Revenue, starting out in a typing pool,
but then moved on to other roles, such as team leader, supervisor, cashier, mail lady, telephones,
(47:59):
and as a PA in the Call Centre. She was even in charge of responding to bomb threats.
After having her daughter and a period of part-time work, she started her Medical Typist career
at Waikato Hospital's Radiology Department in 2008.
At the time of her interview in 2019, Deborah was still working as a Medical Typist,
but now at Middlemore Hospital, in Auckland. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
(48:22):
{Deborah} And in the meantime I had been applying for any jobs that were going, and I applied for 3 jobs
at Waikato Hospital. I think there was Cardiology, Orthopaedics and Radiology,
and I got a Radiology position at Waikato Hospital in 2008.
And there was a uniform, you had to wear like, a nurses uniform... {Judith} Oh really? {Deborah} You know,
(48:45):
like the smocks, blue smocks. {Judith} Oh yes. {Deborah} Yeah. {Judith} And what was the work environment there?
{Deborah} Like was a pool of like, 4 ladies and there was like a mini barrier wall like that. So with two on this side,
and two on the other side. And it was very different, because you typed the work, it was typed up,
you printed it off. {Judith} So what reports from the Radiologist? {Deborah} Radiologist, yep. Yep. Yep.
(49:06):
{Judith} Did you have to learn much technical language? {Deborah} I did yes. And that's what I did is my own...
made up my own words, ah excel spreadsheet with all my words. I've got all my alphabetical words 'A's.
I've got like another one that's got all my Drug names, all my Stent names.
{Judith} Does anybody else use it? {Deborah} I've given it to a couple of other people now. They've said it's actually brilliant.
(49:27):
{Judith} Brilliant. {Deborah} It is, yeah and I still use it now, to this day. {Judith} Brilliant.
So I was only at Waikato from I think it was like May til December 2008.
And there was something like 4,000 jobs in the queue. {Judith} Really? {Deborah} And I had to start at
4 o'clock on a Monday and a Tuesday night. So I had to wait for somebody to leave to get their... to use their PC. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
(49:52):
{Presenter} Jill's long career in the Public Service started as a Shorthand Typist in the Department of Internal Affairs,
in 1968. Soon promoted to Senior Shorthand Typist 2 years later. Marrying in 1970,
she moved to Hamilton working for Department of Labour, and then Lands and Survey
as Deputy Head Typist before moving once again to Gisborne, where Jill worked for the State Advances,
(50:14):
part of the Housing Corp. Leaving from there to start a family, she returned to part-time work in a variety of jobs,
in both private and Government departments, lived overseas with her second husband,
and eventually found her way to her current role, at Gisborne Hospital. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Eth} So, what does your title here at the Hospital, now? {Jill} Clinical Secretary. {Eth} Yep. And you largely type notes...
(50:38):
{Jill} Dictaphone, it's all dictaphone, admins, rosters, uhm, oh we have to do for cancer patients,
these special PET scan things that have to be organised and they're urgent.
When that comes up you've got to do that straight away. And that's quite an involved process,
(51:00):
organising the transport to get them to Waikato, organising the scans to be uploaded, to be accessed by other hospitals.
And and then they have MDM's - Multidisciplinary Meetings to do with cancer patients and that's a
(51:22):
referral to Waikato which has to also be done.
{Eth} So you type a lot of Specialists notes and... {Jill} Hmmm.
{Eth} And is that done through something like Winscribe or it's done through a central system? Or are they still using... ?
{Jill} They still used dictaphones. {Eth} Yep.
{Jill} I do, have been doing, mostly Surgical Orthopaedics and General Surgery.
(51:46):
The girls next door to us, do all the Medical or the Physicians,
And if we've got time, we help them. And now I've just taken on Gynaecology.
And we're changing the way we work things, a wee bit. So that everybody's up to the same stage,
which is annoying because I work faster than some of the others, yes. [Laughter]
(52:10):
Yes, uhm, backup for the ENT girl, and for Orthopaedics and General Surgery.
And... it's my first priority at the moment is Gynaecology,
which is a whole new field for me. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} Starting her career in Local Government in 1977, Sally C gained valuable skills in the '80s
(52:35):
with all the latest technologies, during a stint working in Australia.
Back in New Zealand, she began working for Wanganui DHB in the early 90s, in data entry, PA,
and HR roles, before finding her way to the Inpatient Scheduling Typing Pool. [Typewriter carriage return sound]
{Sally C} And I went into the typing pool, Inpatient Scheduling at the Hospital. 585 00:52:59,088 --> 00:53:03,088 {Rose} And was that big or... ? {Sally C} Yeah, yeah, it was a big team over there, still is really.
(53:03):
Yeah it's probably about five or six Typists with me, and then they had, uhm, probably about the same
number of Schedulers as well. And so we were in 2 offices, there were some us on one side,
and some on the other side of this big corridor. And so basically I was... just in there, doing typing.
(53:29):
And then the other thing that we had to do, so our... it was basically dictaphone typing, with tapes,
and I had one surgeon that I had to do typing for... gawd, he was just impossible! He's a terrible mumbler.
And I used to think, after a while, I just had to sort of close my eyes, and just sort of weed my way through it
(53:56):
because being a Surgeon, he would do... 'salpingo-oophorectomy' and things like that.
I know, all those sorts... {Rose} So how did you learn to spell the words?!
{Sally C} Our computers were set up to English, New Zealand and then they had a custom dictionary,
it was called Custom CPA, and we still use it. So any words that were misspelt,
(54:23):
would have red underline, and we knew we could either right-mouse click it,
and it would be automatically corrected, or if we were completely off, we'd have to ask the other Typists
what they thought the word was.
And then so often we'd be running around with the tapes to another Typist's tape machine,
(54:45):
and setting the tape, saying 'What do you reckon this is?' You know?
And I would be like 'Oh you that's whatever it is', you know? Diverticulitis or Diverticulosis or, you know,
(56:57):
all that sort of thing, you know? And I used to think 'How do they know all this stuff', you know?
So it was basically trial by fire really. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
{Presenter} This is the wrap up of our Life in the Typing Pool episodes, and there were so many more rich stories
amongst the Keystroke's interviewees that we could have easily had another three.
I'd like to thank our three featured interviewees, Mary Dooley, Lorraine and Mina, who represent a good proportion
of what it was like to spend an entire career within Government.
And I think a great deal of thanks is warranted to these three women for their combined 120 years of service,
to the public of Aotearoa New Zealand. Coming up in Episode 6,
the Impact of Technology, we look at how typewriters evolved, what the introduction of computers,
from data entry to word processors, meant for Typists and how the advent of technologies,
like photocopiers and dictaphones pushed out carbon copies and the use of shorthand. [Sound of typewriters clacking]
The Keystrokes per Minute Project was made possible by funding support from the Ministry of Culture and Heritage
and the Public Services Commission. Listeners can find out more about the project by visiting website
www.storycollective.nz. The soundtrack was kindly provided by permission from the Boston Typewriter Orchestra.
Find their music and merchandise on bandcamp.com. Thanks for listening. [Typewriter ding sound]
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