October 3, 2022 • 48 mins
Chris Jones - 2022 Arkansas Gubernatorial Candidate
What do you get when you combine a scientist, an ordained minister, a business leader, a husband, and a father? Well, you get today’s guest. His family roots in the state of Arkansas, dating all the way back to the 1700s, have given him a sense of groundedness, residency, and a love for his state, challenges and all. In fact, he loves his state so much that he’d like to be its next governor. Bonded to his core principles, he’s leading and teaching with humanity, using relatable analogies like bumblebees, hot coals, and PB&J. So together, we’ll consider this very important question:
How can a return to principles like love heal our communities?
A conversation with Chris Jones, on this episode of Lead With a Question.
Guest Bio:
Dr. Chris Jones, the 2022 Democratic nominee for Governor of Arkansas, is a physicist, minister, educator, non-profit executive leader, father and husband. Chris, a Pine Bluff, Arkansas native, is a son of two preachers and was raised with a strong sense of faith. He attended Morehouse College on a NASA Scholarship for physics and math, then went on to study at MIT becoming a nuclear engineer and earning a Ph.D. in urban planning. After becoming ordained as a minister, Chris returned home to Arkansas and led the Arkansas Regional Innovation Hub. Through this work, he has seen firsthand how disparities within Arkansas have gotten worse, not better. He believes there is much room for growth, including improving public education opportunities in every community, strengthening infrastructure from roads to broadband access, protecting and securing our right to vote, and bridging the rural and urban divide. Chris has faith in Arkansas’s potential, and he is running for governor to ensure every person in Arkansas has an opportunity to succeed. Chris is the proud husband to Dr. Jerrilyn Jones, an emergency medicine physician and U.S. Air Force combat veteran who served in Afghanistan. Together, they are proud parents to three daughters. Connect with Dr. Jones at chrisforgovernor.com and @JonesForAR across social media platforms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
this is lead with a question,
you know,
I travel the state and one of the common themes no matter where I am is folks feel unheard unseen and uncared for.
(00:22):
Uh and and that combination is toxic and what we have is we have some of the our quote unquote leaders throwing lighter fluid on a fire.
Hi,
(00:42):
I'm rob Callan.
We live in a time when people are seeing that the old way of doing business is broken and that leading into the future requires something new.
A deeper focus on humanity,
the courage to let go of power and ego,
a desire to nurture the conditions for co creation and the bravery not to have all the answers on this show.
(01:08):
I along with my friends,
chris Deaver and Ian clawson connect with guests who embody these principles and whether household names or not,
they've shattered the status quo often as misfits to shape the future with others and achieve miraculous things in work and life as an example.
(01:28):
What do you get when you combine a scientist,
an ordained minister,
a business leader,
a husband and a father?
Well,
you get today's guest his family roots in the state of Arkansas,
dating all the way back to the 17 hundreds have given him a sense of grounded-ness, residency, and a love for his state--challenges and all.
(01:50):
In fact,
he loves his state so much that he'd like to be its next governor. Bonded to his core principles.
He's leading and teaching with humanity using relatable analogies like bumblebees,
hot coals and PB and J. So together, we'll consider this very important question:
(02:10):
How can a return to principles like love heal our communities?
A conversation with Chris Jones on this episode of lead with a question.
(02:33):
I am first of all glad to be having this conversation.
You know,
I think about my life's trajectory and a lot of what I've experienced Is because I've been in interaction with folks who are willing to open themselves up,
who are on their various journeys themselves.
(02:54):
And so for now,
what I'm doing now is super exciting because I'm running for the governor of Arkansas,
a state that um I grew up in and my family has been in for over 200 years.
So we actually trace our roots back to before Arkansas was a territory.
We were a territory before we were a state that's some real way back history.
(03:20):
Uh and you know,
it's funny because when I think about the arc of my family's journey from way back in the late 1700s to now all often tried to imagine the stories that they um of their lives.
And I often try to imagine what was it and what were the pivotal decisions that happened and what were the pivotal encounters that happened over the over the trajectory of their lives.
(03:49):
And I try to think about that um in the context of my own life now.
And so,
you know,
I'll I grew up pretty regular.
Um my family was what I would call the struggling middle class.
You know,
they,
they had income,
but,
um,
but making ends meet wasn't easy.
(04:09):
And um,
both my parents had uh,
college degrees and yet they were still struggling at the end of the month.
Um,
now that allowed me though to get exposure to so much.
Um,
and but it also reminded me of the sort of challenges of life that come.
(04:31):
So I grew up riding dirt bikes,
eating honeysuckle finding grasshoppers,
you know,
spending time with my grandparents and my family and all of that laid the foundation for what would be a fascinating life to me because I've enjoyed my journey.
I will tell you that the seed that was planted that leads to what I'm doing now and now running for governor and I'm enjoying all the interactions I'm having across the state.
(04:59):
The seed was planted when I was eight years old and it was planted when I was eight years old,
when my dad took me on the journey from my hometown of pine bluff to little rock,
little rock in the big city capital.
And when I was eight in the mall,
we bumped into none other than then Governor Bill Clinton and my interaction with Governor Clinton was so striking and so memorable that,
(05:25):
you know,
I,
I recall at the time thinking,
who is this guy?
Why is he paying so much attention to me and,
and why do I feel like I matter?
Um,
and,
and in that moment I asked my dad what does he do?
Uh,
and my dad said he's the governor.
And I said,
well what's the governor?
Because I mean I didn't know.
And my dad said,
let's go look it up.
And so we went home and pulled out the encyclopedia Britannica and found out that the governor could solve problems,
(05:50):
um,
serve people and make a difference in their lives.
And at the age of eight,
I said,
you know what I want to serve others.
I want to do public service.
And that,
that has been my journey that led me to now.
And if,
if not for both the leadership,
we think of leadership in terms of titles.
(06:12):
But it's not,
I think in terms of,
I think of it in terms of experiences if not for the leadership of my father to take me on the journey,
if not for the leadership of President Clinton to pause in the,
in the what I'm sure was a hectic day.
Uh,
and give me that encounter.
I may be doing.
So I would likely be doing something different right now.
Yeah.
(06:33):
You know,
I really love your father's approach.
He could have instantly give,
given you some readily available answer that he had in his mind,
but he took you home and let you kind of explore that and he did that together with you.
I find that very compassionate and just what a great teacher.
Yeah,
(06:53):
he did.
he did it often,
uh,
that was always his thing,
go look it up,
go look it up because he wanted us to know.
And then he also wanted us to know how to get to know,
right.
Um,
and uh,
and the combination of that,
I think it was,
it was a blessing.
It sounds like it.
What a special experience.
(07:14):
Um,
what,
what things are you hoping to bring to the table for the state of Arkansas?
Oh man.
Um,
you know,
I'll say this Arkansas is a phenomenal place.
People don't realize what happens on the ground and it's a hidden gem,
(07:34):
But if you look at Arkansas,
you think if you really pull back the curtain,
you'll realize that we've had,
um,
presidents come out,
President Clinton,
we've had,
um,
industry titans,
uh,
sam Walton JB Hunt,
um,
Tyson,
we've had musical geniuses and all of that has come out of the small state of Arkansas.
(08:02):
And for me,
you know,
one of the things that I am so excited about bringing to the table is to be able to lift up the amazing nous that's on the ground in the state now to get there,
I think there's some critical things that we have to do.
Um,
and so as I go across and for me,
the door of opportunity,
(08:24):
uh opens through education.
And so education is critical as the first piece.
Uh,
and as you get your education,
there's also this idea that I have to have access to infrastructure,
uh,
and certainly if I don't have a way to bring an income,
then I can't keep a roof over my head or even get to those educational opportunities.
(08:46):
Uh,
so,
you know,
one of the things that I'm excited about bringing to bear is what I call PB and J,
you know,
I'm excited about spreading PB and J across the state and PB and J,
you're like,
this is a preschool broadband jobs.
It's high quality education starting with freaking is safe,
reliable infrastructure,
(09:06):
starting with broad band and its real economic development,
starting with jobs.
And I think to me that's the,
that's what provides the foundation.
So you ask the question,
what do I bring?
One is an understanding of the sort of root causes of issues uh,
and the foundation that's needed in order for people to,
to thrive.
You know,
two is my own lived experience.
(09:27):
And I started out,
like I said,
not with not much um riding dirt bikes,
eating honeysuckle grasshoppers and typical artist or upbringing and yet through exposure.
Um,
and I was then able to have an amazing journey that took me on to get five degrees and be married to a wife who has three degrees and all of that for us is to bring it back home to Arkansas,
(09:50):
all of that plus having run multiple businesses.
Um,
and and try to put and seek to provide that foundation,
but,
you know,
there's something else that's different other than the sort of critical things that you would normally think of,
education,
economic development,
um there are of course crosscutting things that I care about,
(10:12):
but but the the if you ask me,
what's the most important thing that I think is needed in this moment?
Um and I want to bring to Arkansas that's love and compassion,
you know,
I'm an ordained minister,
in addition to being a rocket scientist and what is missing so much in our civil discourse,
(10:34):
our political discourse or economic discourse is actually putting love into action.
Uh and so when I think about my own life's journey and my own ministry and being a preacher's kid,
um what I am excited and pumped about bringing to the table is that compassion and love in a leadership position,
(10:55):
which again,
has been really missing,
It's a beautiful foundation I think,
to approach public service is that idea of love and compassion,
agree that it's largely been missing from our public discourse.
And um while,
(11:15):
you know,
there may be differing opinions about kind of how we got to this point,
I'm interested in what what do you see as the ideal future?
You know,
if if we're building our our public interactions are communities on those principles of love and compassion,
what types of things do you see being possible in the future.
(11:41):
Um you know,
was was so fascinating about that question is that it makes you want to have an answer.
But in the creation of the answer,
you actually bound the possibilities.
(12:01):
So,
so I'm gonna I'm gonna give you an answer that that may be a little dissatisfying.
Um the ideal future to me is one where all our kansans are included.
Uh and we're all our kansans have the ability and opportunity have the opportunity to live up to their true potential.
(12:33):
Yeah,
that's that's great.
And and I think it's interesting because what you've described is not necessarily a specific list of finite concrete outcomes per se,
but rather you're basing that future vision on specific principles and attributes,
(12:57):
um which may play out differently for for different people.
Um but the idea that that there would be a future in which,
you know,
people can reach their full potential.
Um I think is an aspiration that the founders were thinking about and that we continue to seek after.
(13:21):
Um now,
so I really appreciate that that response.
You know,
it's interesting because we talk about about spreading PB and J across the state.
And you know,
the reason I love your question is because it gets at what's underneath the spreading of PB and J.
(13:42):
And again,
PB and J.
Preschool broadband jobs.
It's about education,
infrastructure,
economic development.
Um but the spreading part is so critical and your question highlights the importance of the spreading part because here's the deal if you think about a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in a,
in a bad sandwich,
(14:03):
the peanut butter's clumped and the jellies clumped and when you take a bite,
sometimes all you get is dry bread.
No one wants to take a bite of dry bread and in,
in a good sandwich,
the peanut butters spread all over from corner to corner and the jelly is layered on top.
Maybe a couple of layers of jelly.
(14:25):
Well,
when I think about communities like the one that my dad grew up in,
in East Arkansas or my mom grew up in South Arkansas or like Madison County in north central Arkansas where uh,
it's one of the largest counties in the state geographically And they only have two ambulances.
(14:47):
It takes an hour and a half to give them one part of the county to the next uh,
in,
in some,
some spaces.
And I think about the fact that not long ago,
there was someone who had a heart attack in Madison County and the ambulance was on the other side of the county.
They called 911 in the ambulance couldn't get to them.
It wasn't because they weren't trying.
(15:08):
It wasn't because the system wasn't,
wasn't able to get,
wasn't interested in getting to them is because we didn't have the will to put in the right investment to lay the foundation for them to realize their true potential.
Now in this case true potential was a life or death situation,
it's not always a life or death situation.
(15:29):
Sometimes an education situation which changes the trajectory of the life you live.
Um,
so I'm really pressed by and drawn to the idea of what if we created a future in a society where everyone was included,
(15:50):
which means we're spread spreading opportunity,
resources all over and where we're all,
we all have the,
the chance to realize our full potential.
I hearken that to King's letter from a Birmingham jail.
You know,
King was a,
was a brilliant scholar,
uh,
an amazing orator martin Luther.
(16:11):
King Jr and uh,
and a deep thinker.
And he wrote the letter from a Birmingham jail,
from it,
from the jail without the internet,
without his books,
barely with any pen and paper.
And,
and it's a timeless letter and he taught me,
asked us the question,
(16:31):
where do we go from here?
Chaos or community?
And in that,
one of the things that he was asking us is,
are we going to have a society where,
where everyone is included and where the society is really working towards uplifting everyone,
regardless of your socioeconomic status,
(16:52):
regardless of your race,
regardless of your gender,
regardless of your your decisions.
And regardless of whether you agree with some of the things that I agree with or not.
Um,
and I think that's that's the future.
I want to see.
That's the,
that's the space we're in in this moment.
Um,
and that would be ideal to me.
(17:13):
Well,
first of all,
I want,
I want a peanut butter jelly sandwich.
Now,
I keep thinking about that,
but you got me,
you got me there and,
you know,
just the practicality of what you're describing,
right?
Because and as you,
as you were sharing earlier your dreams of the future,
I was thinking about that that picture that martin Luther king Jr painted about,
(17:39):
you know,
the future,
right?
Where we're,
you know,
all Children of God coming together and,
you know,
sharing these principles of unity,
compassion,
uh and achieving our full potential as you said.
And I would ask,
you know,
what are your first principles?
It seems like you've been describing what those are right and how they tied to the future and with your experience as being,
(18:03):
you know,
essentially a product of some of the best of of what Arkansas can do,
right?
And you,
I mean,
just looking at your your prior experiences,
the degrees you've,
you know,
accomplished and,
you know,
m I t all these things that you've done right?
It's truly incredible.
Uh and yet it seems to be what you're saying,
(18:25):
what you're saying,
suggesting is,
right.
First of all,
why doesn't everybody have these kinds of opportunities and how can you bring what you received and share that and and,
you know,
make others the mission in that way,
which is really special.
Uh and then second is I'd be curious,
you know,
as you,
as you've gone through this process,
you mentioned the moment you had,
(18:47):
uh,
you know,
with,
uh,
you know,
Governor Clinton and your dad,
um,
you know,
how do you balance,
because,
you know,
you've got a lot of things on your schedule,
a lot of moment,
other moments that pull you different directions,
you know,
finding those moments to where you feel like this is going to make an impact on the future.
You know,
someone,
um,
(19:07):
kind of the one right,
uh,
that,
that,
you know,
maybe that,
that person that,
that,
that young man or you know,
whoever,
maybe,
how do you think about that?
Yeah.
So one of the things that we committed to doing,
uh,
at the outset,
you ask the question of what,
what's basically first principles in terms of the values I stand on.
(19:30):
Um,
and what guides me?
Um,
and I'm gonna get to that and,
but I want to start by saying holistically,
you know,
it was always important to stand on a foundation of values.
Um,
it's always been important for me in my life.
So I've constantly thought about it.
Um,
since a young age,
(19:50):
it's always been important in the work that I've done.
And in this campaign before we did anything,
I created a document that I call the values document.
Uh,
and it's,
it's pretty straightforward,
it's like,
hey,
what are the values that would be the north star for the work that I'm doing the campaign,
(20:11):
you know,
when,
when,
when,
when there's a decision to be made,
and it's not clear what the right direction is,
Where do we go for clarity?
And I have non values,
uh,
that have been laid out faith,
hope,
inclusion,
and belonging,
integrity,
(20:32):
innovation,
uh,
fairness,
hard work,
rest and,
and possibility.
So these make up the sort of,
the foundation of all that we do in the campaign,
and it really does allow us to have clarity when things are confusing.
(20:52):
Um,
for me,
if I were to boil it all down.
Um the good thing is that I don't have to,
I don't have to be the one to figure it out.
Um I am a christian,
I'm an ordained minister.
Um,
and so I try to live out my faith.
And um I've always been fascinated by the question that jesus got,
(21:16):
which basically said out of everything that we need to know and do out of everything that we've been told what is most important.
And he said two things he said,
Love God and Love Your Neighbor as yourself.
And so I take that second one,
because the first one is internal.
I take the second one as an external thing,
(21:38):
and as a as a real core foundational principle in in business for me,
in academics,
for me in personal relationships and in professional relationships and random interactions.
Um,
I try to ask myself,
am I loving my neighbor as myself.
Am I putting love in action?
Um and that that really gives me a sense of clarity um and in many,
(22:06):
many times when there are a million and one things going on um and how I live that out.
Um you know,
I've been very blessed um to uh to seek out and have great mentors,
um great teachers,
great examples and whenever somebody has done for me and I asked them,
(22:29):
I've asked them what what can I do to pay you back?
Their common response is paying forward.
Um so when you take that,
plus that encounter that an eight year old kid had with president with Governor Bill Clinton and the fact that Governor Bill Clinton took time to talk and engage with me and he took that moment and he found that moment.
(22:52):
Um I look actually look for moments uh that are what I call trajectory changing moments.
Um you know,
often look forward with young folks.
Um but but really it can be with folks of any age and try to have an experience that then changes not only their trajectory but my my life trajectory at all as well.
(23:18):
So that that your question was how do I in the midst of all the competing demands and the this interview and then go here and give this speech.
And uh is that um you know there's a there's a processor in the back of my mind that's actively looking for moments to you know,
truly engage with folks on a human to human level uh to hear them.
(23:43):
Which is important to me as someone who has an invisible disability cannot hear out of my right here,
never have been able to.
So hearing and listening is all is very critical um and as someone who is a personal color in the community that often gets left out being heard and seen and included is very important.
So that to me,
(24:04):
when you combine that with the fact that hearing including and embracing someone and giving them that space is how we live out love.
Um that allows me to to more often than not find the moments in the midst of the madness um to engage with folks.
So chris one question I have as as I hear you describing,
(24:27):
you know,
seeking out these moments with with the people that that you come across um you know,
we've seen especially in the last few years,
um a very challenging environment continue to develop within our our political system um specifically as it relates to politicians,
(24:48):
interactions with each other.
Um and the level of trust that exists within within those circles.
And we actually talked with one of our recent guests about that?
Um have you thought about what might be needed to heal some of that that division within our our political system and and if so,
(25:12):
um you know,
what are what are some of the ideas that you might have Mm Yeah,
I mean,
look,
I think the only the thing that heals the vision is love,
you know,
it's how we and I'm a christian.
So I see it through those limbs Lynn but whether if you're buddhist,
(25:32):
if you're muslim,
if you're um naturalist,
it's,
it still comes back to the same principle.
Like you heal those divisions,
you break through that that hate and anger with love.
And what does that mean?
I mean,
let me make it not so lofty esoteric in there.
(25:53):
Um,
it starts with seeing people as truly our neighbors,
re humanizing each other.
You know,
we've gotten into this tribalism and it's funny,
you know,
they've done research that shows that you can take a random group of people,
(26:16):
you can pick any um dynamic any factor and say,
all right,
everyone would long sleeve get on this side,
Everyone with short sleeves get on this side.
And when you put them into those two groups over the course of time.
Uh,
in a short window to a very short period of time,
the people in long sleeves will begin to see others in long sleeves as better than the folks in short sleeves.
(26:43):
The people in short sleeves will begin to see folks in long sleeves as as it could see um,
as each other as enemies.
And so that that's sort of the politics that that exists now and and as a nuclear engineer,
if I can nerd out for a second,
there are there are there are two kinds of nuclear power.
(27:04):
Um and when you think about nuclear power is this is the stuff that powers bombs,
it's the stuff that powers electricity.
The one kind of nuclear power is where you take an atom,
a particle,
you know,
like carbon or um plutonium,
(27:24):
it's just it's just a particle matter and you split it and energy is released when you split it.
Now,
that,
to me is the politics of division,
where you take a community and you separate them,
you split them,
you divide them into section,
energy is released.
That energy is powerful.
That energy drives things that energy was driving our current political discourse.
(27:50):
But there's another kind of nuclear power and that's nuclear fusion where you take two atoms and again,
it could be any atoms.
Carbon,
oxygen,
hydrogen,
you combine them when you combine those atoms,
energy is also released.
And so I believe that when you combine communities through love,
when you get folks to work together in an inclusive way,
(28:13):
when you when you go beyond the destructiveness and and the division um and you work together to solve problems that energy that's released,
is far more powerful than the energy of division now in new in physics and nuclear power,
nuclear fusion,
bringing,
bringing atoms together is actually more powerful than nuclear fission separating atoms.
(28:38):
It takes more work to get to nuclear fusion,
it's harder to get there.
It's more complex.
And you go back and think about communities and our political discourse bringing people together is far more powerful than separating people.
It takes more work to get there.
And the research shows diverse teams lead to better outcomes.
(29:00):
But that it's far more complex.
It's more challenging to come together.
It sometimes takes longer to get there.
But when you get there the outcomes um even in the business sector of diverse teams are far better.
So um interestingly my amazing wife who is my we will be married 20 years in December.
(29:25):
She and she's phenomenal air force veteran E.
R.
Doc mother of three.
This woman teaches an exercise class that I will never take because it's too hard.
She made this connection.
And she said look your campaign because I've told this story before.
But she said your campaign is like the bumblebee.
Now the bumblebee,
(29:45):
if you look at it,
it has a really big body and really small wings.
And scientists were trying to figure out how in the world that something was such a big body and little wings actually fly because it didn't it didn't seem right.
And so about 90 years ago at a university in England scientists said,
(30:05):
hey let's study it,
let's look at it,
let's model it.
And they modeled the bumblebee.
They did all the calculations and they came to the conclusion that it is aerodynamically impossible for the bumblebee to fly.
But somebody forgot to tell the bumble bee,
because the reality is a bumblebee that doesn't fly as a dead bumblebee.
(30:27):
And I think I think about the campaign and experts have said that,
you know,
you're a black man running in the south,
you have no money.
Um,
you've never run before,
you have no name recognition.
Uh,
and when I reflect on what we've done so far,
we run,
we won a five way primary with 70% of the vote.
(30:49):
So we ignore the experts and decided,
hey,
let's fly anyway,
Well,
that's not the end of the story though.
Um,
several decades later,
probably 50,
60 years later,
scientists said,
look,
you know,
because I'm a scientist and engineer and we never give things up,
We don't stop till we can answer.
And so scientists got new models,
(31:11):
they got new way of looking at the bumblebee.
Um and they,
and they understood what was going on behind the first narrative in a way they didn't understand decades before.
So what happens is when the bumblebee flaps its wings,
it's working super hard.
(31:31):
There's something underneath those wings that's created and that's called the vortex and vortex is a little is a wind tunnel that's created as the bumblebee flaps his wings.
Well,
that vortex,
which they didn't see decades before,
is what gives the bumblebee lift.
So when you combine that hard work and the vortex,
(31:51):
the bumblebee flies.
And in our campaign,
we're putting in the work,
we've shown up in all 75 counties.
Once we're going back to all 75 counties and walking a mile in each county,
we're having conversations with people that you would normally think that we wouldn't have conversations with.
In other words,
we're talking to everybody and putting in that hard work and people leaning in and coming in and supporting the campaign is what's our wings and our vortex.
(32:21):
And when you combine that,
um,
we're gonna have the lift we need.
And so that that that's why I wear the bumblebee as a reminder that when people tell you,
it's not possible,
ignore it,
put in the hard work,
bring the folks together and you'll get the lift.
You need such great analogy chris that you used,
(32:42):
I I want that nuclear fusion,
I want us to be combined spirit,
mind and heart.
But it seems like you you've so far you've set the right trajectory and foundation with your value list,
your nine values.
You know,
a lot of political rhetoric might try to drum up connection through through emotions and people have been slided or the economic downturn and we're gonna turn things around.
(33:14):
And but I think at the core of it values really have the lasting power to unite us.
You know,
you you strike me as um,
similar to two other politicians where,
you know,
they may see themselves as the outsider to the political system,
especially with your background.
(33:34):
Um,
and then you know this this charge desire to come in and make changes and make a difference.
But I think with your story it's unique that you are,
you may be a political outsider but you strike me as as an Arkansas insider.
So tell us how how this dynamic gives you an edge compared to maybe other components.
(33:57):
Yeah.
Well you know it's it's interesting because people talk about being a political political outsider,
but politics is people there is there is no politics without people now.
You can you can have you can not have experience in D.
C.
Politics,
you can not have experience in elective politics.
(34:18):
Um But the political ecosystem is made up of people.
And so part of what that that that tension that you're talking about is no I haven't held elected office.
Um And and what makes that stand out more is the fact that I'm a I'm an engineer,
(34:38):
I'm a rocket scientist,
I'm a business executive.
Um And all of that comes to bear on.
I'm an urban planner.
Um As a stark contrast with the normal archetype,
the normal sort of caricature in a in a neutral way of the politician now for me though,
(35:05):
like I am what what what makes it that pension more.
But what makes it special,
what grounds it for me is that um I am like really truly truly truly truly in our cancer being 1/7 generation of cancer.
And so even just talking about that and reminding folks,
(35:25):
um what you typically see is that someone who's had my journey,
who has left the state and spent 15 or 20 years outside of the state getting different degrees.
Um they would paint me as the,
as the,
as the Arkansas outsider,
(35:46):
But what the full context is that 15 years in comparison to 200 years in the state is nothing.
And so I bring all of that 200 years to the state.
The other thing is that,
um,
there are very few people who beat me at promoting Arkansas now,
we might be the same,
(36:06):
but I've always introduced myself,
as hey,
I'm Chris Jones,
I'm from Pine Bluff Arkansas.
So,
so this,
this personal grounding in the state um,
I believe is what people see and feel.
Um and my promotion of the state and talking about the greatness of it,
but also being honest about the challenge we face challenges we face,
(36:27):
I believe is what people see and feel and experience,
which then helps them come to the conclusion,
understanding that all this cat's in our Kansas and he grew up eating honeysuckle.
He grew up outside the and be going going in home for his grandma's cooking um which is kind of an Arkansas thing,
(36:50):
It's a,
it's not only an Arkansas thing,
but it's truly an Arkansas thing.
Um,
and,
you know,
I think that that is what matters now I will say this,
it doesn't matter what my upbringing was.
Um,
now,
what does that mean?
That means?
I think the other thing that people are feeling and realizing is that they're tired of the sort of constructed narrative of who a politician is and it's constructed in a way to try to meet some voters expectation of who a politician should be,
(37:29):
right.
So you,
so you take parts of your life and you,
and you create this narrative of like,
oh,
well,
now I'm,
is supposed to be X.
So let me create a narrative and let me do things that make me fit into X.
Well,
our kansans and folks,
another state,
they see right through that,
(37:50):
they can see right through the fake,
they can see right through the phony.
Um,
and I've always been committed to and one of the values,
integrity one and,
and,
and that's a,
that's a core value.
So it's like,
look,
I'm gonna be who I am period and if,
and if folks want it and accept it and see that as someone that they would like to be the chief executive of the state,
(38:13):
great.
If folks don't want it and don't accept it,
then hey,
I get it and it's fine,
but what's not gonna happen is I'm not gonna create some persona,
some person in the,
in the hopes that I would meet their expectations of who I should be,
I'm just gonna tell them who I am and you either like it or you don't simple as that,
(38:35):
interestingly.
I think that's also in Arkansas is a very Arkansas thing because you look at sam Walton,
sam Walton was the richest man in the world and he still rode around in a hat and a beat up pickup truck because that seems like I'm just gonna be who I am period.
Yeah,
Well,
I think that the,
the quality of authenticity has kind of reached its it's time,
(38:56):
you know,
and,
and I feel exactly the same that people have have grown weary of sort of constructed,
you know,
false personas.
And I think there's there's definitely,
you know,
in the last few years we've all been through a lot of trauma,
(39:16):
you know,
each in our own way.
And I think in many ways that trauma has,
has sort of funneled us toward a return to humanity and and reminding us that,
you know,
what,
all of the other trappings of,
you know,
professional success,
(39:37):
you know,
different types of aspirations,
ultimately they feel pretty stale when compared to the power and the sublime experience of connecting with another human being.
And so I think that so many of the things that you are,
are building your foundation on,
(39:57):
um,
they've,
I think they've reached their moment and,
and so I'm hopeful that,
you know,
you can continue to,
to amplify that voice and and we're grateful today to be able to amplify your voice as well because these are values that we believe in and um we we believe that you know,
(40:18):
the world needs them now more than ever before.
Yeah,
I totally agree.
I mean I think um that we are hurting in pain.
Um you know,
I travel the state and one of the common themes no matter where I am is folks feel unheard unseen and uncared for.
(40:38):
Uh and and that combination is toxic.
And what we have is we have some of the our quote unquote leaders throwing lighter fluid on a fire as opposed to saying why don't we put the fire out?
And and look,
it's hard to say definitively.
(41:00):
Um what is and what should be.
My faith tells me that I only have a finite knowledge um now I follow and serve an infinite God.
So there's a there's a whole lot of stuff I don't know.
My science tells me that I only know 1% less than 1% of of things that there are to know.
(41:24):
And 99.99% of the of the universe is unknown.
So there's a whole lot that I don't know both tell me my science and my faith tells me that I just don't know a lot.
Uh So some of this is um saying,
well I don't know a lot,
but when I look back and when I look back and I see the moments in history when people are this distraught,
(41:50):
this divided this,
hurting this much in pain.
Um what has helped us is when we lean on those long standing values and when we we get at the root cause of who we are.
Um and I always wondered that man,
(42:11):
like what what what if we actually treated each other like humans?
Um what if we actually lived out our values uh in the in the in the truest sense?
And I reflect back on the founding of our country and how the leaders who founded our country,
they created a set of ideals.
Um They created a set of values and we've been working to perfect that and to live up to that.
(42:41):
Uh and then the moments in our history when we're when we're drug and pushed and thrust far away from it.
And I think there are moments in our history when we um we have to literally use everything in us to move closer to those ideals.
And as you said,
(43:01):
we're in this moment now where we have to use everything in us to move closer to those ideals.
Because if you imagine,
you know,
two ships in the ocean um the further they get apart at some point,
they're so far apart that they can never be reunited.
And what I don't want is I don't want our our society,
(43:24):
our country,
my state,
um to get so far from it,
its ideals that we can never be reunited.
Well,
chris this has been an illuminating and energizing and and deeply meaningful conversation um as we as we wrap and and thank you again for sharing your time with us.
(43:48):
Is there anything else that you would want to leave people with today?
You know,
I think I wanna leave folks with a a request a a request two despite the narrative,
(44:10):
despite the noise.
Despite the negativity um fight to live out and to lift up the best of us.
Um and I think the best of us is rooted grounded and surrounded by love.
So fight to love,
fight to love your neighbor,
uh fight to love your friend,
(44:32):
Fight to love your enemy,
Fight to love your family.
Uh because I really believe that if we can collectively do that,
um then we will be in a much better place.
Um And you know,
look,
I I know that this conversation was a non political conversation if you would.
(44:53):
Um and I'm also running for office and I think we need us anyone listening.
Uh those who believe in a future that is grounded and surrounded in love uh that is inclusive of all and working for all um that you know,
join the campaign.
(45:14):
They both can find out more about what I am,
who I am and what we're doing at chris for governor dot com fo r chris fo our governor dot com and any support whether it's um amplifying our message,
uh sharing your dollars or making any connections,
uh,
and do that because we need it.
(45:36):
And you can follow us on social media jones for a r uh,
because that's what's gonna make the difference in this moment,
in this time when,
uh,
and I'll leave you with these two things.
One is that I love the barbecue.
Uh,
and when I think about barbecuing and think about building a fire,
you can have hot coals,
but if they're separated,
(45:57):
um,
the fire will never get hot enough to burn anything.
But if you bring those hot coals together and they're connected,
then you'll have a blazing fire that can cook anything.
And in this moment,
I think we have to bring the hot coals together.
And so if you see folks in the political sphere um,
that you want to support,
and hopefully that's us leaning and if you see folks in other spheres you want to support,
(46:21):
then lean in.
Um,
that because that because that's something that matters in this moment,
and in this time.
Uh,
and then,
you know,
I'll end with with a true statement that I fundamentally believe,
um,
that if we actually lived out loving of our neighbor,
(46:44):
then we'll be all right.
So I want to say thank you for the time.
And I want to say that I love each and every one of you and I appreciate what you're doing.
This episode of lead with the question was produced by me rob calen with support from my co hosts and brave core founders,
Chris Deaver and Ian clawson.
(47:06):
The music you heard was composed by Ian as part of another project he's involved in called Moon Machine Dave Arcade created our podcast,
Cover Art special.
Thanks to chris jones for taking a few minutes out of his busy campaign to speak with us.
If you're curious about chris and his message,
you can head over to chris for governor dot com.
(47:29):
Also,
we really appreciate you for taking the time to co create these conversations with us,
especially when there are so many other things you could be doing.
If you found any value at all in these episodes,
could you do a favor?
Leave us a rating,
even a review wherever you're listening right now.
It takes about two minutes and helps others discover the show as well.
(47:50):
If you want to learn more about the work we're doing at Brave Core,
you can check out our website at Brave Core dot c o.
The lead with a Question podcast is a production of Brave Core LLC.
this is lead with a question,
you know,
I travel the state and one of the common themes no matter where I am is folks feel unheard unseen and uncared for.
(00:22):
Uh and and that combination is toxic and what we have is we have some of the our quote unquote leaders throwing lighter fluid on a fire.
Hi,
(00:42):
I'm rob Callan.
We live in a time when people are seeing that the old way of doing business is broken and that leading into the future requires something new.
A deeper focus on humanity,
the courage to let go of power and ego,
a desire to nurture the conditions for co creation and the bravery not to have all the answers on this show.
(01:08):
I along with my friends,
chris Deaver and Ian clawson connect with guests who embody these principles and whether household names or not,
they've shattered the status quo often as misfits to shape the future with others and achieve miraculous things in work and life as an example.
(01:28):
What do you get when you combine a scientist,
an ordained minister,
a business leader,
a husband and a father?
Well,
you get today's guest his family roots in the state of Arkansas,
dating all the way back to the 17 hundreds have given him a sense of grounded-ness, residency, and a love for his state--challenges and all.
(01:50):
In fact,
he loves his state so much that he'd like to be its next governor. Bonded to his core principles.
He's leading and teaching with humanity using relatable analogies like bumblebees,
hot coals and PB and J. So together, we'll consider this very important question:
(02:10):
How can a return to principles like love heal our communities?
A conversation with Chris Jones on this episode of lead with a question.
(02:33):
I am first of all glad to be having this conversation.
You know,
I think about my life's trajectory and a lot of what I've experienced Is because I've been in interaction with folks who are willing to open themselves up,
who are on their various journeys themselves.
(02:54):
And so for now,
what I'm doing now is super exciting because I'm running for the governor of Arkansas,
a state that um I grew up in and my family has been in for over 200 years.
So we actually trace our roots back to before Arkansas was a territory.
We were a territory before we were a state that's some real way back history.
(03:20):
Uh and you know,
it's funny because when I think about the arc of my family's journey from way back in the late 1700s to now all often tried to imagine the stories that they um of their lives.
And I often try to imagine what was it and what were the pivotal decisions that happened and what were the pivotal encounters that happened over the over the trajectory of their lives.
(03:49):
And I try to think about that um in the context of my own life now.
And so,
you know,
I'll I grew up pretty regular.
Um my family was what I would call the struggling middle class.
You know,
they,
they had income,
but,
um,
but making ends meet wasn't easy.
(04:09):
And um,
both my parents had uh,
college degrees and yet they were still struggling at the end of the month.
Um,
now that allowed me though to get exposure to so much.
Um,
and but it also reminded me of the sort of challenges of life that come.
(04:31):
So I grew up riding dirt bikes,
eating honeysuckle finding grasshoppers,
you know,
spending time with my grandparents and my family and all of that laid the foundation for what would be a fascinating life to me because I've enjoyed my journey.
I will tell you that the seed that was planted that leads to what I'm doing now and now running for governor and I'm enjoying all the interactions I'm having across the state.
(04:59):
The seed was planted when I was eight years old and it was planted when I was eight years old,
when my dad took me on the journey from my hometown of pine bluff to little rock,
little rock in the big city capital.
And when I was eight in the mall,
we bumped into none other than then Governor Bill Clinton and my interaction with Governor Clinton was so striking and so memorable that,
(05:25):
you know,
I,
I recall at the time thinking,
who is this guy?
Why is he paying so much attention to me and,
and why do I feel like I matter?
Um,
and,
and in that moment I asked my dad what does he do?
Uh,
and my dad said he's the governor.
And I said,
well what's the governor?
Because I mean I didn't know.
And my dad said,
let's go look it up.
And so we went home and pulled out the encyclopedia Britannica and found out that the governor could solve problems,
(05:50):
um,
serve people and make a difference in their lives.
And at the age of eight,
I said,
you know what I want to serve others.
I want to do public service.
And that,
that has been my journey that led me to now.
And if,
if not for both the leadership,
we think of leadership in terms of titles.
(06:12):
But it's not,
I think in terms of,
I think of it in terms of experiences if not for the leadership of my father to take me on the journey,
if not for the leadership of President Clinton to pause in the,
in the what I'm sure was a hectic day.
Uh,
and give me that encounter.
I may be doing.
So I would likely be doing something different right now.
Yeah.
(06:33):
You know,
I really love your father's approach.
He could have instantly give,
given you some readily available answer that he had in his mind,
but he took you home and let you kind of explore that and he did that together with you.
I find that very compassionate and just what a great teacher.
Yeah,
(06:53):
he did.
he did it often,
uh,
that was always his thing,
go look it up,
go look it up because he wanted us to know.
And then he also wanted us to know how to get to know,
right.
Um,
and uh,
and the combination of that,
I think it was,
it was a blessing.
It sounds like it.
What a special experience.
(07:14):
Um,
what,
what things are you hoping to bring to the table for the state of Arkansas?
Oh man.
Um,
you know,
I'll say this Arkansas is a phenomenal place.
People don't realize what happens on the ground and it's a hidden gem,
(07:34):
But if you look at Arkansas,
you think if you really pull back the curtain,
you'll realize that we've had,
um,
presidents come out,
President Clinton,
we've had,
um,
industry titans,
uh,
sam Walton JB Hunt,
um,
Tyson,
we've had musical geniuses and all of that has come out of the small state of Arkansas.
(08:02):
And for me,
you know,
one of the things that I am so excited about bringing to the table is to be able to lift up the amazing nous that's on the ground in the state now to get there,
I think there's some critical things that we have to do.
Um,
and so as I go across and for me,
the door of opportunity,
(08:24):
uh opens through education.
And so education is critical as the first piece.
Uh,
and as you get your education,
there's also this idea that I have to have access to infrastructure,
uh,
and certainly if I don't have a way to bring an income,
then I can't keep a roof over my head or even get to those educational opportunities.
(08:46):
Uh,
so,
you know,
one of the things that I'm excited about bringing to bear is what I call PB and J,
you know,
I'm excited about spreading PB and J across the state and PB and J,
you're like,
this is a preschool broadband jobs.
It's high quality education starting with freaking is safe,
reliable infrastructure,
(09:06):
starting with broad band and its real economic development,
starting with jobs.
And I think to me that's the,
that's what provides the foundation.
So you ask the question,
what do I bring?
One is an understanding of the sort of root causes of issues uh,
and the foundation that's needed in order for people to,
to thrive.
You know,
two is my own lived experience.
(09:27):
And I started out,
like I said,
not with not much um riding dirt bikes,
eating honeysuckle grasshoppers and typical artist or upbringing and yet through exposure.
Um,
and I was then able to have an amazing journey that took me on to get five degrees and be married to a wife who has three degrees and all of that for us is to bring it back home to Arkansas,
(09:50):
all of that plus having run multiple businesses.
Um,
and and try to put and seek to provide that foundation,
but,
you know,
there's something else that's different other than the sort of critical things that you would normally think of,
education,
economic development,
um there are of course crosscutting things that I care about,
(10:12):
but but the the if you ask me,
what's the most important thing that I think is needed in this moment?
Um and I want to bring to Arkansas that's love and compassion,
you know,
I'm an ordained minister,
in addition to being a rocket scientist and what is missing so much in our civil discourse,
(10:34):
our political discourse or economic discourse is actually putting love into action.
Uh and so when I think about my own life's journey and my own ministry and being a preacher's kid,
um what I am excited and pumped about bringing to the table is that compassion and love in a leadership position,
(10:55):
which again,
has been really missing,
It's a beautiful foundation I think,
to approach public service is that idea of love and compassion,
agree that it's largely been missing from our public discourse.
And um while,
(11:15):
you know,
there may be differing opinions about kind of how we got to this point,
I'm interested in what what do you see as the ideal future?
You know,
if if we're building our our public interactions are communities on those principles of love and compassion,
what types of things do you see being possible in the future.
(11:41):
Um you know,
was was so fascinating about that question is that it makes you want to have an answer.
But in the creation of the answer,
you actually bound the possibilities.
(12:01):
So,
so I'm gonna I'm gonna give you an answer that that may be a little dissatisfying.
Um the ideal future to me is one where all our kansans are included.
Uh and we're all our kansans have the ability and opportunity have the opportunity to live up to their true potential.
(12:33):
Yeah,
that's that's great.
And and I think it's interesting because what you've described is not necessarily a specific list of finite concrete outcomes per se,
but rather you're basing that future vision on specific principles and attributes,
(12:57):
um which may play out differently for for different people.
Um but the idea that that there would be a future in which,
you know,
people can reach their full potential.
Um I think is an aspiration that the founders were thinking about and that we continue to seek after.
(13:21):
Um now,
so I really appreciate that that response.
You know,
it's interesting because we talk about about spreading PB and J across the state.
And you know,
the reason I love your question is because it gets at what's underneath the spreading of PB and J.
(13:42):
And again,
PB and J.
Preschool broadband jobs.
It's about education,
infrastructure,
economic development.
Um but the spreading part is so critical and your question highlights the importance of the spreading part because here's the deal if you think about a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in a,
in a bad sandwich,
(14:03):
the peanut butter's clumped and the jellies clumped and when you take a bite,
sometimes all you get is dry bread.
No one wants to take a bite of dry bread and in,
in a good sandwich,
the peanut butters spread all over from corner to corner and the jelly is layered on top.
Maybe a couple of layers of jelly.
(14:25):
Well,
when I think about communities like the one that my dad grew up in,
in East Arkansas or my mom grew up in South Arkansas or like Madison County in north central Arkansas where uh,
it's one of the largest counties in the state geographically And they only have two ambulances.
(14:47):
It takes an hour and a half to give them one part of the county to the next uh,
in,
in some,
some spaces.
And I think about the fact that not long ago,
there was someone who had a heart attack in Madison County and the ambulance was on the other side of the county.
They called 911 in the ambulance couldn't get to them.
It wasn't because they weren't trying.
(15:08):
It wasn't because the system wasn't,
wasn't able to get,
wasn't interested in getting to them is because we didn't have the will to put in the right investment to lay the foundation for them to realize their true potential.
Now in this case true potential was a life or death situation,
it's not always a life or death situation.
(15:29):
Sometimes an education situation which changes the trajectory of the life you live.
Um,
so I'm really pressed by and drawn to the idea of what if we created a future in a society where everyone was included,
(15:50):
which means we're spread spreading opportunity,
resources all over and where we're all,
we all have the,
the chance to realize our full potential.
I hearken that to King's letter from a Birmingham jail.
You know,
King was a,
was a brilliant scholar,
uh,
an amazing orator martin Luther.
(16:11):
King Jr and uh,
and a deep thinker.
And he wrote the letter from a Birmingham jail,
from it,
from the jail without the internet,
without his books,
barely with any pen and paper.
And,
and it's a timeless letter and he taught me,
asked us the question,
(16:31):
where do we go from here?
Chaos or community?
And in that,
one of the things that he was asking us is,
are we going to have a society where,
where everyone is included and where the society is really working towards uplifting everyone,
regardless of your socioeconomic status,
(16:52):
regardless of your race,
regardless of your gender,
regardless of your your decisions.
And regardless of whether you agree with some of the things that I agree with or not.
Um,
and I think that's that's the future.
I want to see.
That's the,
that's the space we're in in this moment.
Um,
and that would be ideal to me.
(17:13):
Well,
first of all,
I want,
I want a peanut butter jelly sandwich.
Now,
I keep thinking about that,
but you got me,
you got me there and,
you know,
just the practicality of what you're describing,
right?
Because and as you,
as you were sharing earlier your dreams of the future,
I was thinking about that that picture that martin Luther king Jr painted about,
(17:39):
you know,
the future,
right?
Where we're,
you know,
all Children of God coming together and,
you know,
sharing these principles of unity,
compassion,
uh and achieving our full potential as you said.
And I would ask,
you know,
what are your first principles?
It seems like you've been describing what those are right and how they tied to the future and with your experience as being,
(18:03):
you know,
essentially a product of some of the best of of what Arkansas can do,
right?
And you,
I mean,
just looking at your your prior experiences,
the degrees you've,
you know,
accomplished and,
you know,
m I t all these things that you've done right?
It's truly incredible.
Uh and yet it seems to be what you're saying,
(18:25):
what you're saying,
suggesting is,
right.
First of all,
why doesn't everybody have these kinds of opportunities and how can you bring what you received and share that and and,
you know,
make others the mission in that way,
which is really special.
Uh and then second is I'd be curious,
you know,
as you,
as you've gone through this process,
you mentioned the moment you had,
(18:47):
uh,
you know,
with,
uh,
you know,
Governor Clinton and your dad,
um,
you know,
how do you balance,
because,
you know,
you've got a lot of things on your schedule,
a lot of moment,
other moments that pull you different directions,
you know,
finding those moments to where you feel like this is going to make an impact on the future.
You know,
someone,
um,
(19:07):
kind of the one right,
uh,
that,
that,
you know,
maybe that,
that person that,
that,
that young man or you know,
whoever,
maybe,
how do you think about that?
Yeah.
So one of the things that we committed to doing,
uh,
at the outset,
you ask the question of what,
what's basically first principles in terms of the values I stand on.
(19:30):
Um,
and what guides me?
Um,
and I'm gonna get to that and,
but I want to start by saying holistically,
you know,
it was always important to stand on a foundation of values.
Um,
it's always been important for me in my life.
So I've constantly thought about it.
Um,
since a young age,
(19:50):
it's always been important in the work that I've done.
And in this campaign before we did anything,
I created a document that I call the values document.
Uh,
and it's,
it's pretty straightforward,
it's like,
hey,
what are the values that would be the north star for the work that I'm doing the campaign,
(20:11):
you know,
when,
when,
when,
when there's a decision to be made,
and it's not clear what the right direction is,
Where do we go for clarity?
And I have non values,
uh,
that have been laid out faith,
hope,
inclusion,
and belonging,
integrity,
(20:32):
innovation,
uh,
fairness,
hard work,
rest and,
and possibility.
So these make up the sort of,
the foundation of all that we do in the campaign,
and it really does allow us to have clarity when things are confusing.
(20:52):
Um,
for me,
if I were to boil it all down.
Um the good thing is that I don't have to,
I don't have to be the one to figure it out.
Um I am a christian,
I'm an ordained minister.
Um,
and so I try to live out my faith.
And um I've always been fascinated by the question that jesus got,
(21:16):
which basically said out of everything that we need to know and do out of everything that we've been told what is most important.
And he said two things he said,
Love God and Love Your Neighbor as yourself.
And so I take that second one,
because the first one is internal.
I take the second one as an external thing,
(21:38):
and as a as a real core foundational principle in in business for me,
in academics,
for me in personal relationships and in professional relationships and random interactions.
Um,
I try to ask myself,
am I loving my neighbor as myself.
Am I putting love in action?
Um and that that really gives me a sense of clarity um and in many,
(22:06):
many times when there are a million and one things going on um and how I live that out.
Um you know,
I've been very blessed um to uh to seek out and have great mentors,
um great teachers,
great examples and whenever somebody has done for me and I asked them,
(22:29):
I've asked them what what can I do to pay you back?
Their common response is paying forward.
Um so when you take that,
plus that encounter that an eight year old kid had with president with Governor Bill Clinton and the fact that Governor Bill Clinton took time to talk and engage with me and he took that moment and he found that moment.
(22:52):
Um I look actually look for moments uh that are what I call trajectory changing moments.
Um you know,
often look forward with young folks.
Um but but really it can be with folks of any age and try to have an experience that then changes not only their trajectory but my my life trajectory at all as well.
(23:18):
So that that your question was how do I in the midst of all the competing demands and the this interview and then go here and give this speech.
And uh is that um you know there's a there's a processor in the back of my mind that's actively looking for moments to you know,
truly engage with folks on a human to human level uh to hear them.
(23:43):
Which is important to me as someone who has an invisible disability cannot hear out of my right here,
never have been able to.
So hearing and listening is all is very critical um and as someone who is a personal color in the community that often gets left out being heard and seen and included is very important.
So that to me,
(24:04):
when you combine that with the fact that hearing including and embracing someone and giving them that space is how we live out love.
Um that allows me to to more often than not find the moments in the midst of the madness um to engage with folks.
So chris one question I have as as I hear you describing,
(24:27):
you know,
seeking out these moments with with the people that that you come across um you know,
we've seen especially in the last few years,
um a very challenging environment continue to develop within our our political system um specifically as it relates to politicians,
(24:48):
interactions with each other.
Um and the level of trust that exists within within those circles.
And we actually talked with one of our recent guests about that?
Um have you thought about what might be needed to heal some of that that division within our our political system and and if so,
(25:12):
um you know,
what are what are some of the ideas that you might have Mm Yeah,
I mean,
look,
I think the only the thing that heals the vision is love,
you know,
it's how we and I'm a christian.
So I see it through those limbs Lynn but whether if you're buddhist,
(25:32):
if you're muslim,
if you're um naturalist,
it's,
it still comes back to the same principle.
Like you heal those divisions,
you break through that that hate and anger with love.
And what does that mean?
I mean,
let me make it not so lofty esoteric in there.
(25:53):
Um,
it starts with seeing people as truly our neighbors,
re humanizing each other.
You know,
we've gotten into this tribalism and it's funny,
you know,
they've done research that shows that you can take a random group of people,
(26:16):
you can pick any um dynamic any factor and say,
all right,
everyone would long sleeve get on this side,
Everyone with short sleeves get on this side.
And when you put them into those two groups over the course of time.
Uh,
in a short window to a very short period of time,
the people in long sleeves will begin to see others in long sleeves as better than the folks in short sleeves.
(26:43):
The people in short sleeves will begin to see folks in long sleeves as as it could see um,
as each other as enemies.
And so that that's sort of the politics that that exists now and and as a nuclear engineer,
if I can nerd out for a second,
there are there are there are two kinds of nuclear power.
(27:04):
Um and when you think about nuclear power is this is the stuff that powers bombs,
it's the stuff that powers electricity.
The one kind of nuclear power is where you take an atom,
a particle,
you know,
like carbon or um plutonium,
(27:24):
it's just it's just a particle matter and you split it and energy is released when you split it.
Now,
that,
to me is the politics of division,
where you take a community and you separate them,
you split them,
you divide them into section,
energy is released.
That energy is powerful.
That energy drives things that energy was driving our current political discourse.
(27:50):
But there's another kind of nuclear power and that's nuclear fusion where you take two atoms and again,
it could be any atoms.
Carbon,
oxygen,
hydrogen,
you combine them when you combine those atoms,
energy is also released.
And so I believe that when you combine communities through love,
when you get folks to work together in an inclusive way,
(28:13):
when you when you go beyond the destructiveness and and the division um and you work together to solve problems that energy that's released,
is far more powerful than the energy of division now in new in physics and nuclear power,
nuclear fusion,
bringing,
bringing atoms together is actually more powerful than nuclear fission separating atoms.
(28:38):
It takes more work to get to nuclear fusion,
it's harder to get there.
It's more complex.
And you go back and think about communities and our political discourse bringing people together is far more powerful than separating people.
It takes more work to get there.
And the research shows diverse teams lead to better outcomes.
(29:00):
But that it's far more complex.
It's more challenging to come together.
It sometimes takes longer to get there.
But when you get there the outcomes um even in the business sector of diverse teams are far better.
So um interestingly my amazing wife who is my we will be married 20 years in December.
(29:25):
She and she's phenomenal air force veteran E.
R.
Doc mother of three.
This woman teaches an exercise class that I will never take because it's too hard.
She made this connection.
And she said look your campaign because I've told this story before.
But she said your campaign is like the bumblebee.
Now the bumblebee,
(29:45):
if you look at it,
it has a really big body and really small wings.
And scientists were trying to figure out how in the world that something was such a big body and little wings actually fly because it didn't it didn't seem right.
And so about 90 years ago at a university in England scientists said,
(30:05):
hey let's study it,
let's look at it,
let's model it.
And they modeled the bumblebee.
They did all the calculations and they came to the conclusion that it is aerodynamically impossible for the bumblebee to fly.
But somebody forgot to tell the bumble bee,
because the reality is a bumblebee that doesn't fly as a dead bumblebee.
(30:27):
And I think I think about the campaign and experts have said that,
you know,
you're a black man running in the south,
you have no money.
Um,
you've never run before,
you have no name recognition.
Uh,
and when I reflect on what we've done so far,
we run,
we won a five way primary with 70% of the vote.
(30:49):
So we ignore the experts and decided,
hey,
let's fly anyway,
Well,
that's not the end of the story though.
Um,
several decades later,
probably 50,
60 years later,
scientists said,
look,
you know,
because I'm a scientist and engineer and we never give things up,
We don't stop till we can answer.
And so scientists got new models,
(31:11):
they got new way of looking at the bumblebee.
Um and they,
and they understood what was going on behind the first narrative in a way they didn't understand decades before.
So what happens is when the bumblebee flaps its wings,
it's working super hard.
(31:31):
There's something underneath those wings that's created and that's called the vortex and vortex is a little is a wind tunnel that's created as the bumblebee flaps his wings.
Well,
that vortex,
which they didn't see decades before,
is what gives the bumblebee lift.
So when you combine that hard work and the vortex,
(31:51):
the bumblebee flies.
And in our campaign,
we're putting in the work,
we've shown up in all 75 counties.
Once we're going back to all 75 counties and walking a mile in each county,
we're having conversations with people that you would normally think that we wouldn't have conversations with.
In other words,
we're talking to everybody and putting in that hard work and people leaning in and coming in and supporting the campaign is what's our wings and our vortex.
(32:21):
And when you combine that,
um,
we're gonna have the lift we need.
And so that that that's why I wear the bumblebee as a reminder that when people tell you,
it's not possible,
ignore it,
put in the hard work,
bring the folks together and you'll get the lift.
You need such great analogy chris that you used,
(32:42):
I I want that nuclear fusion,
I want us to be combined spirit,
mind and heart.
But it seems like you you've so far you've set the right trajectory and foundation with your value list,
your nine values.
You know,
a lot of political rhetoric might try to drum up connection through through emotions and people have been slided or the economic downturn and we're gonna turn things around.
(33:14):
And but I think at the core of it values really have the lasting power to unite us.
You know,
you you strike me as um,
similar to two other politicians where,
you know,
they may see themselves as the outsider to the political system,
especially with your background.
(33:34):
Um,
and then you know this this charge desire to come in and make changes and make a difference.
But I think with your story it's unique that you are,
you may be a political outsider but you strike me as as an Arkansas insider.
So tell us how how this dynamic gives you an edge compared to maybe other components.
(33:57):
Yeah.
Well you know it's it's interesting because people talk about being a political political outsider,
but politics is people there is there is no politics without people now.
You can you can have you can not have experience in D.
C.
Politics,
you can not have experience in elective politics.
(34:18):
Um But the political ecosystem is made up of people.
And so part of what that that that tension that you're talking about is no I haven't held elected office.
Um And and what makes that stand out more is the fact that I'm a I'm an engineer,
(34:38):
I'm a rocket scientist,
I'm a business executive.
Um And all of that comes to bear on.
I'm an urban planner.
Um As a stark contrast with the normal archetype,
the normal sort of caricature in a in a neutral way of the politician now for me though,
(35:05):
like I am what what what makes it that pension more.
But what makes it special,
what grounds it for me is that um I am like really truly truly truly truly in our cancer being 1/7 generation of cancer.
And so even just talking about that and reminding folks,
(35:25):
um what you typically see is that someone who's had my journey,
who has left the state and spent 15 or 20 years outside of the state getting different degrees.
Um they would paint me as the,
as the,
as the Arkansas outsider,
(35:46):
But what the full context is that 15 years in comparison to 200 years in the state is nothing.
And so I bring all of that 200 years to the state.
The other thing is that,
um,
there are very few people who beat me at promoting Arkansas now,
we might be the same,
(36:06):
but I've always introduced myself,
as hey,
I'm Chris Jones,
I'm from Pine Bluff Arkansas.
So,
so this,
this personal grounding in the state um,
I believe is what people see and feel.
Um and my promotion of the state and talking about the greatness of it,
but also being honest about the challenge we face challenges we face,
(36:27):
I believe is what people see and feel and experience,
which then helps them come to the conclusion,
understanding that all this cat's in our Kansas and he grew up eating honeysuckle.
He grew up outside the and be going going in home for his grandma's cooking um which is kind of an Arkansas thing,
(36:50):
It's a,
it's not only an Arkansas thing,
but it's truly an Arkansas thing.
Um,
and,
you know,
I think that that is what matters now I will say this,
it doesn't matter what my upbringing was.
Um,
now,
what does that mean?
That means?
I think the other thing that people are feeling and realizing is that they're tired of the sort of constructed narrative of who a politician is and it's constructed in a way to try to meet some voters expectation of who a politician should be,
(37:29):
right.
So you,
so you take parts of your life and you,
and you create this narrative of like,
oh,
well,
now I'm,
is supposed to be X.
So let me create a narrative and let me do things that make me fit into X.
Well,
our kansans and folks,
another state,
they see right through that,
(37:50):
they can see right through the fake,
they can see right through the phony.
Um,
and I've always been committed to and one of the values,
integrity one and,
and,
and that's a,
that's a core value.
So it's like,
look,
I'm gonna be who I am period and if,
and if folks want it and accept it and see that as someone that they would like to be the chief executive of the state,
(38:13):
great.
If folks don't want it and don't accept it,
then hey,
I get it and it's fine,
but what's not gonna happen is I'm not gonna create some persona,
some person in the,
in the hopes that I would meet their expectations of who I should be,
I'm just gonna tell them who I am and you either like it or you don't simple as that,
(38:35):
interestingly.
I think that's also in Arkansas is a very Arkansas thing because you look at sam Walton,
sam Walton was the richest man in the world and he still rode around in a hat and a beat up pickup truck because that seems like I'm just gonna be who I am period.
Yeah,
Well,
I think that the,
the quality of authenticity has kind of reached its it's time,
(38:56):
you know,
and,
and I feel exactly the same that people have have grown weary of sort of constructed,
you know,
false personas.
And I think there's there's definitely,
you know,
in the last few years we've all been through a lot of trauma,
(39:16):
you know,
each in our own way.
And I think in many ways that trauma has,
has sort of funneled us toward a return to humanity and and reminding us that,
you know,
what,
all of the other trappings of,
you know,
professional success,
(39:37):
you know,
different types of aspirations,
ultimately they feel pretty stale when compared to the power and the sublime experience of connecting with another human being.
And so I think that so many of the things that you are,
are building your foundation on,
(39:57):
um,
they've,
I think they've reached their moment and,
and so I'm hopeful that,
you know,
you can continue to,
to amplify that voice and and we're grateful today to be able to amplify your voice as well because these are values that we believe in and um we we believe that you know,
(40:18):
the world needs them now more than ever before.
Yeah,
I totally agree.
I mean I think um that we are hurting in pain.
Um you know,
I travel the state and one of the common themes no matter where I am is folks feel unheard unseen and uncared for.
(40:38):
Uh and and that combination is toxic.
And what we have is we have some of the our quote unquote leaders throwing lighter fluid on a fire as opposed to saying why don't we put the fire out?
And and look,
it's hard to say definitively.
(41:00):
Um what is and what should be.
My faith tells me that I only have a finite knowledge um now I follow and serve an infinite God.
So there's a there's a whole lot of stuff I don't know.
My science tells me that I only know 1% less than 1% of of things that there are to know.
(41:24):
And 99.99% of the of the universe is unknown.
So there's a whole lot that I don't know both tell me my science and my faith tells me that I just don't know a lot.
Uh So some of this is um saying,
well I don't know a lot,
but when I look back and when I look back and I see the moments in history when people are this distraught,
(41:50):
this divided this,
hurting this much in pain.
Um what has helped us is when we lean on those long standing values and when we we get at the root cause of who we are.
Um and I always wondered that man,
(42:11):
like what what what if we actually treated each other like humans?
Um what if we actually lived out our values uh in the in the in the truest sense?
And I reflect back on the founding of our country and how the leaders who founded our country,
they created a set of ideals.
Um They created a set of values and we've been working to perfect that and to live up to that.
(42:41):
Uh and then the moments in our history when we're when we're drug and pushed and thrust far away from it.
And I think there are moments in our history when we um we have to literally use everything in us to move closer to those ideals.
And as you said,
(43:01):
we're in this moment now where we have to use everything in us to move closer to those ideals.
Because if you imagine,
you know,
two ships in the ocean um the further they get apart at some point,
they're so far apart that they can never be reunited.
And what I don't want is I don't want our our society,
(43:24):
our country,
my state,
um to get so far from it,
its ideals that we can never be reunited.
Well,
chris this has been an illuminating and energizing and and deeply meaningful conversation um as we as we wrap and and thank you again for sharing your time with us.
(43:48):
Is there anything else that you would want to leave people with today?
You know,
I think I wanna leave folks with a a request a a request two despite the narrative,
(44:10):
despite the noise.
Despite the negativity um fight to live out and to lift up the best of us.
Um and I think the best of us is rooted grounded and surrounded by love.
So fight to love,
fight to love your neighbor,
uh fight to love your friend,
(44:32):
Fight to love your enemy,
Fight to love your family.
Uh because I really believe that if we can collectively do that,
um then we will be in a much better place.
Um And you know,
look,
I I know that this conversation was a non political conversation if you would.
(44:53):
Um and I'm also running for office and I think we need us anyone listening.
Uh those who believe in a future that is grounded and surrounded in love uh that is inclusive of all and working for all um that you know,
join the campaign.
(45:14):
They both can find out more about what I am,
who I am and what we're doing at chris for governor dot com fo r chris fo our governor dot com and any support whether it's um amplifying our message,
uh sharing your dollars or making any connections,
uh,
and do that because we need it.
(45:36):
And you can follow us on social media jones for a r uh,
because that's what's gonna make the difference in this moment,
in this time when,
uh,
and I'll leave you with these two things.
One is that I love the barbecue.
Uh,
and when I think about barbecuing and think about building a fire,
you can have hot coals,
but if they're separated,
(45:57):
um,
the fire will never get hot enough to burn anything.
But if you bring those hot coals together and they're connected,
then you'll have a blazing fire that can cook anything.
And in this moment,
I think we have to bring the hot coals together.
And so if you see folks in the political sphere um,
that you want to support,
and hopefully that's us leaning and if you see folks in other spheres you want to support,
(46:21):
then lean in.
Um,
that because that because that's something that matters in this moment,
and in this time.
Uh,
and then,
you know,
I'll end with with a true statement that I fundamentally believe,
um,
that if we actually lived out loving of our neighbor,
(46:44):
then we'll be all right.
So I want to say thank you for the time.
And I want to say that I love each and every one of you and I appreciate what you're doing.
This episode of lead with the question was produced by me rob calen with support from my co hosts and brave core founders,
Chris Deaver and Ian clawson.
(47:06):
The music you heard was composed by Ian as part of another project he's involved in called Moon Machine Dave Arcade created our podcast,
Cover Art special.
Thanks to chris jones for taking a few minutes out of his busy campaign to speak with us.
If you're curious about chris and his message,
you can head over to chris for governor dot com.
(47:29):
Also,
we really appreciate you for taking the time to co create these conversations with us,
especially when there are so many other things you could be doing.
If you found any value at all in these episodes,
could you do a favor?
Leave us a rating,
even a review wherever you're listening right now.
It takes about two minutes and helps others discover the show as well.
(47:50):
If you want to learn more about the work we're doing at Brave Core,
you can check out our website at Brave Core dot c o.
The lead with a Question podcast is a production of Brave Core LLC.
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