Analyst Talk - Callie Rhoads - The Public Corruption Analyst - Leapodcasts

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.

(00:01):
It's like coffee with an analyst,or it could be whiskey with an
analyst reading a spreadsheet,linking crime events, identifying a
series, and getting the latest scoopon association news and training.
So please don't beat that analystand join us as we define the law
enforcement analysis profession.
One episode at a time.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope many aspects ofyour life are progressing.
My name is Jason Elder, and todayour guest has 15 years of law

(00:26):
enforcement analysis experience.
She spent most of her time withthe Florida Department of Law
Enforcement analyzing fraud.
She holds a bachelor's degree incriminology from Florida State University.
Here to talk about, amongother things, analyzing.
Public corruption.
Please welcome Callie Rhodes.
Callie, how we doing?

(00:47):
I'm
good.
Thanks for having me.
I am looking forward to this.
We've been talking about this for a while.
For the listeners, Callie is myneighbor, and so we actually live,
our houses are probably just a ahundred yards apart or so, and we
have an interesting story of how wemet, so we'll get to that at the end.

(01:07):
But you had quite a careeras an analyst with FDLE.
Yeah, I did and I loved it very much.
But stuff had to change.
Yeah.
And we'll get into all that.
'cause I'm really looking forwardto your story, your journey and your
contributions to the profession.
So how did you discover the lawenforcement analysis profession?
Well actually when I startedat Florida State University, I

(01:30):
wasn't sure what I wanted to do.
And I was really big into healthand science and obviously growing
up in Tallahassee, Florida, Ialso really liked climb listening
to stuff that had happened.
With Bundy and all the different thingsthat had happened around here with
University of Florida and then whatnot.
And so when I started at FSU, Iwas a dietetics major and quickly

(01:53):
learned I did not like the classesthat much and was kind of lost and
didn't know what I wanted to do.
And I took a controversy classcalled the History of Serial Killers.
Controversial because it was ahistory slash criminology class.
And so it, I think they onlyhad it for two semesters before
the the school shut it down.

(02:14):
But anyway, when I was in that class,I was like, oh my God, I love it.
I, loved everything about it.
And I was like, okay, I definitely needto be, doing something with criminology.
So I got outta dietetics,went to criminology, still
loved the science aspect.
Found out about doing forensics nursing.
So I graduated from FSU with mycriminology degree, and then I turned

(02:34):
around and went to nursing school.
Mm-hmm.
So while I was in nursing school, I metwith a coroner down in Broward County.
And a forensics nurse, by the way, issomebody who works with the coroner.
And when the coroneris extremely busy you.
The one that gets called out andgoes to the dead body and you perform
what all you need to do, the, themeasurements, the temperature and whatnot.

(02:55):
So but when I talked to this corner downin Broward County, he was like, oh my God,
you'll be unstoppable, but you realizeyou have to move to a really big city.
I'm not a big city girl.
Yeah, like he was like, you got intosomewhere where there's enough crime.
And I was like, oh, well that makes sense.
So I, while I was in nursing school,worked in pediatrics for a little bit, did
realize I did not like working with peoplewho are alive when they're sick and hurt.

(03:19):
It's extremely sad and hard and, yeah.
So when I was finished witheverything, I wasn't sure what to do.
So I applied and started inthe DNA database at Florida
Department of Law Enforcement.
And I worked in the DNA database doing.
Forensic style stuff for about a year.
And realized if I ever wanted toadvance in that area, I was gonna

(03:40):
have to go back to school againfor either chemistry or biology.
And while I was there, I amextremely outgoing and would talk
to people all the time and thebreak room or down in the cafeteria.
And I happened to meet a supervisorwho was in public corruption and they
were like, you have to come over andinterview for this analyst position.
So I did and I got the job.

(04:01):
And that's how.
I got there.
It's a weird way and it took me along time to get there, but but then
I, I was there for the next 15 years.
Yeah.
, You're jumping on a lot ofdifferent professions before
landing on the one that you did.
Just quickly back on the.
FSU course on Serial Killers.

(04:22):
Was it that it was controversialbecause people felt that , the course
was glamorizing serial killers?
No, it's because it was, it.
It was really a historyclass, but criminology majors
were allowed to take it.
Mm-hmm.
And so I guess it was something to do withyour credits, but in all honesty, I took

(04:44):
two classes that really stood out to meat Florida State and that was one of 'em.
And it was, oh my god,the most amazing class.
Just the fact that you could go and lookin the newspaper, which I don't know if
people read newspapers anymore, but youcould go and look in the newspaper every
single day and you can find somebodythat is classified as a serial killer.

(05:05):
Like you could actually find someonewho fits the profile of a serial killer.
And it was really scary.
I was like, wow, this is crazythat all of this is happening.
Not just here in Florida,but like all, all over.
But it was really easy to see.
Wow.
I mean, we need more people inthe criminology field to help.
Yeah.
And you mentioned, youmentioned Ted Bundy.
I'm sure that's doesn't sit well withsome folks giving that Florida State.

(05:30):
Students were, some of his victims?
Oh yeah, for sure.
I actually joined a sorority andmy mom was, she was hilarious.
She was like, please, whateveryou do, do not join Ca Omega.
And I was like, are you kidding me?
But I, and I did not, I was not a Cayo, Iwas a Kappa Delta, but I wound up living
with a bunch of Chios and I loved them somuch, and I was in the house all the time.

(05:51):
And I can tell you, it is nothaunted or anything like that at all.
Yeah.
All right.
So I'm curious to know the, someonesaid, Hey, oh, you gotta come over here
to this corruption analyst position.
What did they see in you that theythought, oh, she would be a good
fit for this analyst position?
Well, I think when most analysts I'vemet that are good analysts, we all kind

(06:14):
of have similar personalities in thesense that we're all pretty organized.
We're type A, I'm very into a routineand I would see this same supervisor
and I almost the same time every day.
I had my routine and I'm, and I'malso outgoing when I need to be.
And I'm reserved when I need to be.
And I think that theycould, they saw that in me.

(06:36):
And honestly that's kind of whatmakes a good analyst is somebody who's
able to stay organized talk when theyneed to be quiet, when they need to.
And I don't know.
I mean, that's, that's all I can figure,
. so.
Take us back to the first couple weeks.
You, you get the position, you're cominginto the office for the first time.
This obviously isn't something thatyou foresaw yourself doing as we talked

(07:00):
about your journey just to get here.
So just talk about your, yourwalking into the office for the
first couple weeks, what you wereexperiencing and what you felt.
So there's a bunch ofdifferent personalities.
Or, or at least there was for me inpublic corruption at FDLE, there was
a bunch of different personalities.
So for me it was kind of gettingto know everybody and seeing who

(07:23):
I sit with the best inspector?
Mm-hmm.
You, you definitely, in my office therewas multiple inspectors and you don't
get to pick and choose who you workwith, however the inspector kind of does.
And so you would kind of see whoyou fit with and, and a lot of
these inspectors are retired.
Police officers and, and sheriff'sdepartment and from wherever
all the different walks of life.

(07:44):
So, and, and from all over, mostof them from Florida, but just
from all over parts of Florida.
And so they're all very different.
Some were narcotics, some werehomicide different things.
And so that was the biggest thingfor the first couple weeks was for
me to kind of see where I fit inand, and who I really clicked with.
And I'll tell you the thing about publiccorruption that if somebody wanted to

(08:07):
do public corruption, and I figuredthis out really fast the first couple
weeks, is you don't have to be fantasticat math, but you need to understand.
How math works, like you need.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, it's a lot, it'sa lot of financial crime.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So I haven't had too many analyststhat had analyzed corruption.

(08:29):
We'll, we will talk about KellyKimsey, 'cause that's also our
neighbor and I had her on the showand so she, went through her, part,
quickly go through and, and talk abouthow the cases got put on your desk.
Yeah.
So, and I'm sure Kellytalked about it quite a bit.
So in our office, most of thecases we received were through they

(08:50):
were either governor appointed.
So the governor reached out.
The governor's office reached out toour office and said, Hey, we've gotten
some complaints against so and so.
We need to open an investigation.
Or we would sometimes get letters orcomplaints through mail, phone calls
and then we would take them to ourcommissioner and we would decide,
okay, is this worth us working into?
And so that's kind ofhow our office would.

(09:12):
Get an investigation.
Most of them, like I said,were governor appointed.
And we, the cool thing aboutexecutive investigations where public
corruption was housed is that wework for the whole state of Florida.
So a lot of people who know anything aboutFlorida Department of Law enforcement
know that there's rocks, meaning thatthere's Tallahassee and Miami and Orlando.

(09:37):
And so those rocks onlywork within those areas.
So Miami only looks in the Miami area.
Tallahassee only looks in Tallahasseearea, but executive investigations
is part of headquarters.
And so we got to investigatethe whole state of Florida.
So what would happen is we wouldget something from the governor and
then we would then have a meetingand our supervisor would go, okay,

(09:58):
hey, Rose Davis at Fortune, you'regonna work with Callie and you
guys are gonna work this next case.
And the one of the firstcases I worked was with Rose
Davis and actually Mark Perez.
And and it was the Broward County Sheriff.
And that was a really big one.
Yeah.
And I wanna get to that 'causewe, we have several analyst
badge stories to, tell today.

(10:20):
But I'm, curious, as you're gettingstarted here, the process is well
established as you're walking in.
Right?
Yeah.
Like they're teaching you like, okay,here's all the standard operating
procedure of how we do things, you'rethere to learn and to to be the process.
It's not like you're trying to buildthe rocket ship as it's moving.

(10:42):
Yeah, no, so Kelly was a senioranalyst and so she definitely taught
me and helped me figure out like, Hey,you're gonna write so many reports
we're gonna, when we do subpoenas,this is how we do it, and so forth.
But I will say every analyst who comesinto public corruption, and there's
only been a few of us will at leastwhile I was there, has their own way

(11:03):
of doing things and we're all a littlebit different, which is fantastic.
And so, yeah.
So we are not recreating.
The wheel or having todo something like that.
But we all did contribute somethingthat made us all a little bit
unique to the investigation.
. What would you say is the differencebetween the, the role of the analyst

(11:24):
and the role of the inspector?
Because I think as we go through thesecases, what's being asked of you, you get
into a lot of investigator type tasks.
Yeah.
So I will say that we would get alot of these guys, mainly mainly men.
There was definitely some women, RoseDavis, Michelle Pittman . But a lot
of these inspectors would come inand they would be coming from police

(11:46):
departments and sheriff's departmentand so forth, and they weren't used to.
The type of analyst that we are.
And so what I mean by that is we dida lot more from what they have said.
I only worked as an analyst for thisone area, so, but from what everything
we were always told is that wedid more than the average analyst.
So we didn't do just the normal Idon't know, the reports and whatnot.

(12:10):
And the, the I'm trying to thinkof the, with all the pictures.
What's that called?
The,
yeah, when you have to tech.
Yeah.
So I think typically most analysts,it's, it's all data driven.
You're behind a desk, you're,you're dealing with the computer and
you're doing flow charts, or you'redoing link charts and maps reports

(12:30):
and, and digging into the data.
Well, no.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Sorry.
And the word I was lookingfor was the lineups.
I was having a brainfart on that, but yeah.
In our office we actuallywe traveled with them.
We went with them in interviews andwe went with them and on the search
warrants, and we went with them.
Sometimes when they arrested people,I mean, we were there for everything.

(12:51):
And I, I, from everythingI've heard, that's.
Not normal, but that's what we did.
So so, and I was there multipletimes when the person was arrested
and sometimes we would go with them.
I don't even know if I'm allowedto say this, but on, like, on
lookouts and whatnot, and so, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, it was, it wasdifferent in our office.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I don't knowwhat they can do to you now.

(13:14):
Yeah.
You're probably okay to say that, so,
yeah.
But I, I do feel that it is unique, andI mean, in terms of the analysts and
the guests that I've had on there, Imean, a lot of people will say we really
encourage our analysts to get out frombehind the desk, go out in the real
world, see how the real world works.

(13:36):
But here it seems like it's wellestablished that hey, you're,
you're, you're spending most ofyour time out and about, so it's
not, you don't have to tell us that.
Oh my God, we're already doing it.
Yeah.
And some of the cases that I'll touch on,like when, so the first case that we're
gonna talk about probably the Kenji case.
I mean, I lived in FortLauderdale area, the Miami area.

(13:58):
Gosh.
I mean, we were there everyweek for at least a year.
I mean, it was crazy meeting withthe prosecutor and sitting in on
interviews and I mean, we were therea whole heck of a lot, a lot, a lot.
All right, well let's get into it then.
So this brings us to your analyst,bad stories, and for those that may
be new to the show, the, the analystbadge stories, the defining case

(14:22):
or project that an analyst works.
And we got four pretty big ones todaythat we're, we're gonna get through
and we're gonna spend most of ourtime today talking about these cases.
So you, mentioned Ken Jennings, sheriffof Broward County, and I'll just let you
take it over, had it get on your deskand we'll go all the way to the end.
Yeah.

(14:42):
So, Ken, Jenny, he started offas a prosecutor for the Broward
County State Attorney's Office.
And then did some stuff in between that.
And then , he was a senator for a while,for Florida and the Florida Senate.
And then he started in theprivate sector as an attorney.
And during his time our governor appointedhim to be the Charles appointed him
to be the sheriff of Broward County.

(15:04):
The reason why this is a big deal isbecause the Broward County Sheriff's
Office at this time when he was appointed,had the biggest budget of any sheriff's
office in all of the state of Florida.
Like, I mean, he had, he had so much moneythat and he did a lot of wonderful things
for the Broward County Sheriff's Office.
Well so we got the governor'soffice came to our office and said,

(15:27):
Hey, we heard that he is doingsomething funny with money and.
Maybe stealing some money.
And they, we were just getting allkinds of complaints against 'em.
And so he assigned the case to mark Rez,Rose Davis and myself and Ed Fortune also.
Ed Fortune was part of it also.
And I wanna say Ed Fortune was on itfirst, and then Mark Perez came in.

(15:49):
But anyway, yeah, and so it was,the funny thing about it is Ken
Jenny was very arrogant when wefirst started the investigation.
I think he felt like, okay, I'mnot doing anything wrong and these
guys don't know what they're doing.
So we wound up interviewing, I don'teven know so many different people.
And meeting with, like I said,the prosecutors multiple times.

(16:10):
And what ideally wound up getting himcaught is he had a secretary and he
had an assistant that worked for him.
And they were, I mean, even theywere making decent money and whatnot,
and they were very loyal to him,but they were also normal citizens.
And so in our interviews with them,we finally got one of 'em to crack.
Mm-hmm.
And that crack is what kindof led to the downfall.

(16:33):
They had lied to us and lied to us aboutwhere some of the money was coming from.
Like where, how are we getting certainchecks, like where stuff like that.
And and one.
One, I can't remember.
I think it was his secretary.
We were sitting in the interview, itwas me, Rose Davis and Ed Fortune.
And there was one check that waslike, just kind of standing out there.
'cause you subpoena all thesebank records and you have 'em all.

(16:55):
But some of 'em thesubpoenas are only so good.
Like, you get these records andsometimes there's holes in 'em.
So there was this one deposit that wassuper questionable and I can't remember
now what I wrote, but I wrote down aquestion and I passed it over to Rose
Davis and Rose asked this question to hissecretary, and her answer was so good that
Ed Fortune actually fell out of his chair.

(17:19):
And it was, and it was the question, itwas like the million dollar question.
And her answer is what literallygave us the lead to where
we needed to start digging.
And then after that.
It was awesome.
It just, everythingstarted falling into place.
And, and you don't remember the, you
don't remember the question or the answer?
No, I remember because this wasgosh oh six something, yeah.

(17:42):
Yeah.
But I remember basically askingsomething about this one specific
check My question I think honest toGod was who wrote this check or where
did check number, blah, blah, blah,come from, or something like that.
But it literally was me writing downthe question, passing it to Rose Davis.
Rose Davis asked it.
She spit out the answer and thenEd Fortune fell out of his chair.

(18:04):
It was awesome.
It was so awesome.
And then that was it.
That blew up the case.
The one question, and it wasawesome because it was my question.
And so This is why I think it'sso important to get to know your.
Your inspectors, , analysts andinspectors don't think the same.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm, not sworn.
So I don't think the same way that, , theythink and they, usually are not like a
type A personality like most analysts are.

(18:26):
Mm-hmm.
And so we think very differently.
Mm-hmm.
So even though the question wassuch a simple question and the
three of us had been interviewingthese people for months now.
It just, it clicked in mybrain to go, oh, wait a minute.
Did we ever ask this?
And, but that was the, that questionwas the one that like finally just got
everything moving in the right direction.
And then shortly after that we were ableto we went to grand jury and charged Ken

(18:51):
Jenny with what did we charge him with?
We charged him withsomething kind of crazy.
It was, I wanna say moneylaundering charges and tax evasion.
And what really got him is he gotcharged with one count of mail fraud.
And that mail fraud woundup being the federal crime.
And so because of that, we gothim on to go to federal prison
instead of just, state level.

(19:11):
So that was pretty cool.
I'm having trouble understandingwhat they were doing.
So I, I. Were they essentiallymoney laundering to get money?
Yeah.
Back to themselves.
Is that how it was working?
Yeah.
Or what, what was their scheme?
Yeah, so they were doing moneylaundering, so he was doing a couple
different things and my, when it comesto this case, my brain's a little fuzzy.
I mean, this was like the biggestcase I'd ever worked in my

(19:33):
entire life, still to this day.
Mm-hmm.
Because he was such a bighe was such a big figure.
I mean, not literally, I mean, he'sactually a fairly short guy, but
LCD was such a big figure for thesheriff's department and whatnot.
But yeah, so he was, and here's a goodexample of one of the things he was doing.
So he would literally havehis secretary cash in her sick
leave and her annual leave.

(19:55):
'cause a lot of, a lot ofagencies will allow you to do
that at the end of the year.
Mm-hmm.
She would cash that, that in turn aroundand write him a check for all her, leave
for all the money she had gotten for it.
Give him those checks and then he wouldgive her a pay raise or a bonus, the
bonus money he would get from differentdonors who would give him money.

(20:16):
And it was really, it wasreally weird to see all of this.
And there was a, there was a big wigthat he was really tight friends with and
that was the guy, and I can't rememberhis name now, but that was the guy who
had written this one specific check.
And once we knew that, and itwas like a hundred thousand
dollars check or something crazy.
But that one check, and this guyis, like I said, he was the one.

(20:39):
That we realized that's what he was doing.
They were, it is just, he was usinghis secretary and his assistant to cash
in a lot of checks, and then they wereturning around and writing him checks.
Hmm.
Really weird.
It was, was really weird.
That does seem really weird.
That doesn't seem like that would, thejuice would be worth the squeeze on
that, but I'm, I'm assuming we're dealingwith hundreds of thousands of dollars.

(21:03):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was a lot more money involved.
Like, I mean, it was, it was alot of money and the reason why
I brought up how arrogant hewas in the beginning is because.
I think for him as a private attorney,he was making really good money.
Mm-hmm.
And then when he was appointed thesheriff of the Broward County, I mean,
it's not like he was making pennies,but the difference in what he was
making from a private attorney to whenhe was appointed sheriff was huge.

(21:26):
He was not making nearlythe same amount of money.
And I think for him, like he lovedthe power aspect of being the
sheriff, but, but he wanted to keepthat same lifestyle and he wasn't
able to obtain that lifestyle.
Not, not with the money he was making.
Mm-hmm.
So he had to figure outa way to get more money.
And that's when he started leaningon his secretary and his assistant.

(21:47):
And I mean, it was just, it was crazy.
It was really, really crazy.
And if, if he could have justbeen okay with eating mac and
cheese at at night, every now andthen, like he would've been fine.
But he just could not.
He could not.
And then when he was convicted, Iactually sat there, I was in the
courtroom when they convicted him andthey told him his sentence and whatnot.
But my heart actually kind of feltbad for him because from when we

(22:09):
first started investigating him,he was like this very arrogant.
Like, oh, you can't touch me guy.
Mm-hmm.
And then at the end we hadkids and a wife, and my heart
actually kind of felt bad for him.
And you could see it was almostlike he realized, okay, I was wrong.
I'm an idiot.
What was I thinking?
You know?
And.
I don't ever usually feelbad for, for the bad guy.

(22:30):
But I did, I kind of feel bad for himat that moment, only because I think he
realized, yeah, that was really stupid.
. So one of the big themes thatwe're gonna be talking about today
is these are very public casesthat we're talking about here.
And so , as you're going throughthis investigation, obviously a ton
of information behind the curtain,behind the scenes, and then you

(22:52):
have what the media is saying,what the general public is saying.
So as the, as you were still in the,the middle of the investigation, was
he still well supported at this time?
Did he have a lot of good public sentimentthere that people were, . Defending him
or had did this did he have the reputationwhere like, oh, he no one trusted him.

(23:15):
No one liked him.
, It was both like he mm-hmm.
Former senators, Senator Butterworth,I think, wrote us a letter
asking us to be lenient on him.
And so yeah, no, I mean,he, he had a lot of support.
Mm-hmm.
But then, but then on the other side likea lot of the people who worked underneath
him, like his undersheriff and whatnot,I, I wanna say I remember all of them

(23:36):
being like, yeah, no, he's, he's arrogant.
He's kind of a jerk.
And, and once again, I thinkit was that whole power thing.
He had so much power.
It went to his head.
And and I think that that's wherethe public didn't love him as much,
but the former people he workedwith in the private sector, the
senators , when he actually had amoral compass, those people really

(23:58):
still cared about him and, wanted him.
To not go to prison.
, It's interesting and you justpeople don't know everything
that goes on behind the scenes.
, I just looked it up real quick.
It looks like he, he served oneyear in, one day in federal prison.
Yep.
And yeah.
Yeah.
And it was like, and I'm telling you liketax evasion and tax evasion is what got
'em, but that it was this one single checkthat went outside of the state of Florida.

(24:25):
That was mail laundering that got 'em.
Oh, okay.
That one, that one check.
And that's how we got 'em for federal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it, but
it's so cool.
Yeah.
'cause this one was the biggest,like, this was just such a huge case.
I mean, it was insane.
It was, it was all over the news.
I remember sitting in a newsinterview and it was a big deal.

(24:45):
It was a really big deal.
You mentioned Ken Jenny today,and people up here are like,
I don't know who that is.
And even people down there, Imean, they have to be closer to
my age to remember who he is.
From the beginning, was it pretty obviousthat something shady was going on?
No, it was very obvious that heoverspent what he was bringing in.
Mm-hmm.
So and we always this, I mean,you hear it in TV shows and

(25:08):
in movies, but it is a fact.
It is 100% you follow the money.
And in public corruption,that's what we did.
And so he had multiple bank accounts,and so that's what we had to do.
We had to subpoena his bank accountsand we all to, we also had to
subpoena his secretaries and wehad to subpoena his assistant,
and we had to subpoena his wife.

(25:28):
And you could, you literally couldsee, and once again, I'm, I'm
saying multiple accounts, likehe didn't just have one account.
Mm-hmm.
And that was what, so what Iwould do is I would literally.
It was so tedious, but Iwould enter all of this into a
spreadsheet, so it took me forever.
Because this is before they wouldgive it to you electronically.
Yeah.
So I would enter all of this into aspreadsheet and then I would combine

(25:49):
the spreadsheets and then that'skind of where you would start seeing
some, a little bit of a pattern.
But what we saw first was the fact thathe was overspending what he was making.
And if you are overspending whatyou're making, but you're still
living, living like this really.
Lavish lifestyle.
Where's the money coming from?
Yeah, you're getting money from somewhere.
And so that's what we could see.

(26:10):
And when I say like, he livedlavishly, like they never ate at home.
I mean, he ate outbreakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Like it was a joke.
'cause I, I literally was like,how can you afford to do this?
I mean, breakfast, lunch, dinner,I mean, it was crazy trips they
drove nice cars and I don't know.
So.
Yeah.
, Was it this case, we talked about itbriefly in the prep call yesterday.
Was this the case whereyou won an award for?

(26:32):
Yeah, so, it was me and Mark andRose Davis when at the end of all
of this, we won law Enforcementof the year, which was hilarious.
'cause I'm not swarm, but I like waslike, this is the coolest thing ever.
But I mean, it was a, it was a veryhard case and, and I'm not kidding, like
grand jury's kind of scary and mm-hmm.

(26:54):
And then meeting with the prosecutorsas much as we did, and being in
traveling as much as we did, I thinklike they just were so, so appreciative.
And when, and when I say that thissheriff was such a bigwig, I mean, he
was, he was huge for Florida and sotaking him down was just something.
I mean, it was, it was like Watergate,like taking him down was insane.

(27:14):
Especially for Broward County.
So yeah, it was, it was pretty cool towin that, especially since I'm not sworn.
Yeah.
Wow.
No, that is, that is impressive.
So let's move on to the second case then.
Mark Foley, the former USrepresentative of Florida.
Okay.
So, yeah.
So Mark Foley was a member ofthe United States of House of

(27:34):
Representatives for the state of Florida.
Once again, we got the governor's officereached out to our office and said,
Hey, you guys need to investigate him.
The allegations against him was that hewas sending suggestive emails and instant
messages to a lot of the I think they,they're called pages that work mm-hmm.
Up in dc , and it was boys sobecause of that obviously in Florida

(27:59):
you got, you can't mess aroundwith anybody under the age of 18.
And the fact that he was much, mucholder, it was frowned upon a great deal.
So yeah, so we got a complaintthat we needed to investigate him.
And so we did, and it was me andTravis Lawson and Mike o Connell.
And what was interesting about this caseis that we had the page, and I don't wanna

(28:22):
mention his name even though he's wellover 18 now, but we ha we had the page.
He was willing to work with us.
He gave us anything andeverything that we needed.
He gave us his phone records, hegave us his IM messages so we could
read the messages going back andforth between him and, and Mr.
Foley.
Mm-hmm.
And so that was great, but when we wentto try to get information on Foli or from

(28:43):
Foley, nobody would give us anything.
So, the Capitol said no, thathis Blackberry, which was the
type of phone, they don't makethose anymore, I don't think.
And his laptop were government properties,so they wouldn't let us look at that.
They wouldn't let us lookat Mark Foley's calendar.
They wouldn't.
Oh, wow.
I mean, so yeah.

(29:04):
So we literally couldn't get toanything that was from Mark Foley.
So we only had, and he, and obviouslyhe refused to be interviewed
by us, so we only had one side.
We were only able to look at whatthe page provided us and some of the
pages that he had reached out to.
And then.
With that, what we found is some of themessages that he had sent that were, I

(29:26):
would consider inappropriate as a parent.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of those were, a lot of those werewhen they both were up in Washington,
DC at the time and in WashingtonDC statutory rape is 16 and under.
Mm-hmm.
And the kid was 16.
Mm-hmm.
So, so if he had sent those messagesand we could prove that they were done
while he was down here in Florida,we could have possibly had something.

(29:50):
But because all of that was done up inDC and the, and the rules are different.
We weren't able to touch him and wedidn't have a lot of evidence because they
wouldn't, they wouldn't give it to us.
Mm-hmm.
And it's funny, I don't think thatthey wanted Mark Foley anymore to be
in the house because he kind of had astain on this guy doesn't look good.
I mean, he's a gay man and he's hittingon male pages like it, I am sure that they

(30:13):
were like, well, we need to get him out.
But they didn't want to make thehouse of reps look bad either.
So it was like, we'll get ridof him, but don't stain the
house of reps on your way out.
So they just would not give us.
Anything.
So how did it all end?
Did he did, there was never any chargesor anything and he just went away?
No.
Yeah.
So what's crazy is, so we had to, and,and the reason why I wanted to bring

(30:34):
this case up, because one, I wantedto show that like, even though we
felt like there was something there,I mean, what are you gonna do if
nobody will give you or work with you?
I mean, they, they justwouldn't work with us.
But I also, I had to write a report,a brief, every single day to the
governor's office every single day,Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday, to give them an update,even if there was not an update.

(30:56):
So I would spend with my supervisor,we would sit down and for probably
an hour every day, write a brief tothe governor's office because this
was such a big deal because this guy,
.He's such a big wig, letting him know, Hey, this is where we're at.
We, we've subpoenaed this, but we'renot, nobody's providing this whatever.
So I thought that that waskind of a interesting thing.
The governor wanted me toupdate him every single day.

(31:17):
I, that this was the only case Iever had where I had to go over and
give them a brief every single day.
At the end he wound up not running.
Again, I wanna say hispartner got really sick.
I want, and I'm not trying to becliche, but I think he got aids.
And he might've passed away.
His partner was very nice, didn't wantto really talk to us, but he, he did

(31:39):
talk to us briefly, but , the nicest guy.
I think Foley , that was it.
Like after this, he stepped down withoutmaking a big deal if I remember correctly,
, I find it interesting that you, onthe Florida side, they, investigated
this , do you know if the DC investigatedthis or the feds investigated this?
Well, so that's the interesting thing.

(32:01):
They weren't, theyweren't working with us.
So we've worked with FBIA lot andthey've always been really great.
But this is one of the oneswhere like, we weren't getting,
we weren't getting anything.
And I don't think DC investigated him.
I think it was, it was just a Floridathing if I remember correctly.
And it was.
Yeah, it was just a Florida thing and likeI said, they were not giving us anything.

(32:22):
Nothing.
Not even a calendar.
Yeah.
That is a little bit odd.
I, I would think 'cause you wouldthink that they would be willing , it
looks like they were trying toprotect them for whatever reason.
Well, and I think, and that's what I,that's why I said I think the reason
why they were trying to protect them isbecause they were trying to protect the
integrity of the House of Representatives.
Mm-hmm.
I don't think necessarilythey wanted to protect him.

(32:43):
I think that they wanted him gone.
I mean, you know.
But it was, it was the whole fact like,we don't want the House of Representatives
to look bad because we have this mm-hmm.
Grown man who's hittingon these young pages.
So yeah.
And yeah, I mean, and who knows if itwould've been a, if it would've been
a girl page, would it been as bad?
Maybe not.
I mean this was a few years ago andpeople are still not comfortable

(33:07):
with a lot of gay people.
Give it 15 years ago, whatever,I mean, they were even more
uncomfortable, which is so stupid.
I don't get it, but whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It seemed like this wasn't really a fullinvestigation, so you don't really have.
It sounds like you can correct me ifI'm wrong, that you really don't have

(33:27):
a grasp on the full impact, like howmany pages and how, deep this, went,
right?
No, that's, that is a hundred percentcorrect, but it was a, but it was
extremely time consuming because I washaving to write these briefs and I was
having to work so hard on it every singleday, but I had such little stuff to go on.

(33:48):
It was very frustrating becauseit's almost like you, you'd know
that there's something wrong.
And there's something that should bechanged and something bad is happening,
but if nobody's willing to help youat some point you wind up giving up.
So, and it's not that we gave up thegovernor's office finally, though, was
just like, okay, we're gonna move on.
So, yeah.

(34:08):
And that's very not satisfied for sure.
Right.
You just went, that's, that's twoextremes that you just went over.
You're like, there's one where it wentfrom beginning end to full, obviously
very satisfying ending to this otherone where it's like, oh, we did all this
work and have nothing to show for it.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
It was really, it was, itwas super disappointing.

(34:29):
But I think the biggest thing thatI took away from that is that like,
because he was such an important.
Figure for for the POfor politics, basically.
I mean, this mm-hmm.
We're talking about like, I mean, he was,he wasn't just a state house of rep, like,
you know but be, but because he was sucha big guy and such an important person, it
was crazy how fast our investigation kindof got shut down, if that makes sense.

(34:52):
Mm. Yeah.
Hmm.
All right, well, let's moveon to the Jim Greer case.
Yeah.
So he, Jim Greer, this is another one.
It was, it was really interesting.
And this one was very,once again, time consuming.
And yeah, he was the chairmanfor the, the Republican Party
here for the state of Florida.

(35:12):
And he supposedly.
Had set up different, he was gonnatake over the campaigning for the
Republican party here in Florida.
Mm-hmm.
And normally you hire people whohave like extensive experience
campaigning and, and have gone tocollege for different things and are
very good at doing the campaign work.

(35:32):
But I think for Jim Greer, I think hesaw a way to make some extra money.
And so he was like, oh, I'mgonna take over the campaign.
So he and his protege is the best Icould say 'cause he's, it's not like
he was an assistant or anything, butthis other guy who I, like, he was the
nicest guy ever, but he made a mistake.
Del Mar, he made a mistake.

(35:52):
But anyway, they created a shellcompany, which Greer has a book out
there, so I'm sure in his book hesaid this was not a shell company,
but it was, it was a shell company.
And he created the Shell companyand they were funneling money from.
People who are contributing tothe Republican party, hoping that
it would help them with theircampaigns and win and whatnot.

(36:16):
And he was taking that money and theywere going on trips to the Bombas and
buying, like, taking private jets andlike doing some really crazy stuff.
And we subpoenaed a gazillion bankaccounts and interviewed a bunch
of people and, and we caught 'em.
So that one was pretty interesting.
So it seems like with that, when you'reinterviewing them and you're, you just

(36:41):
quickly went over the pattern of behavior.
What was their defenseor what did they say?
Were like, well, why areyou going to The Bahamas?
Or why are you doing all this stuff?
Is this, what does this have to dowith the party and the donations?
Okay, so, . Greer.
And now this, I'm justsaying what Greer has said.

(37:02):
So I'm not at all speaking for Chris.
But Greer was, he wasbasically Chris right hand man.
They were really close.
And so when he was going toBahamas, they were meeting, they
were like meeting certain people.
Other other people were comingthat were contributing money.
Mm-hmm.
First wanted to do it, like this wasthe kind of stuff that he would say.

(37:22):
Mm-hmm.
But what was interesting is thatlike the rumors were that they
would go over, take a privatejet, go over to like The Bahamas.
They would have a bunch ofwomen, whatever you take of that.
They would all hang out for like a weekendor whatever, and then they would fly back.
Now were there some big wigs thatmight've also gone, like let's, I mean,

(37:42):
I don't know, like somebody who hasa lot of money, a private investor.
Sure.
Mm-hmm.
But it was you don't hear that that often.
And so, and we tried interviewing ChrisPrivate detail that is also part of
Florida Department of Law Enforcement,and they obviously cannot say anything.
Mm-hmm.
They couldn't reallyspeak about what happened.
But we had like flight records,so we knew who was on the plane.

(38:06):
We had, when they landed, when they gotback, who piloted the plane, spoke with
some of the pilots stuff like that.
So we had a good idea of who was goingand what was happening over there.
Hmm.
So, but yeah, I guess in terms ofthe, the data and the timelines and
trying to tell the story, like, wasit easy to tell this story or it was

(38:28):
there was still a lot of gaps evenas you were going into the, trial.
No, this one was easy.
And the reason why, becauseGreer was really sloppy.
He did not try to cover up anything.
Denny tried to cover up stuff anddid a really good job because it
went through so many different peoplebefore, before I got back to him.
And I'm not saying Greer's not smart,because he is smart, because he was, he

(38:50):
he got away with this for quite a while.
Yeah.
But he, was very sloppy.
And I mean, it, it was like,you gotta be kidding me.
I mean, it was very easy to follow themoney and it, it helped us a lot that
when we interviewed Delmar, the nicestguy, you could tell, like, he was like,
man, I just really looked up to this guyand I was doing what he told me to do.

(39:10):
And he wound up being on ourside and testifying for us.
And I felt so bad for this, thisguy, 'cause he was young and I was
like, man, this is really gonnamess up his political career.
Mm-hmm.
But, but he was, he wound upbeing fantastic witness for us.
And between him and the factthat Greer was so sloppy.
This case was really easy to follow.

(39:33):
The bankrupt were really easy seeingwhat was in the accounts, what
was supposed to be in the accountsand wasn't in the account easy.
And I, this is one of the ones wherewe talked about how as an analyst, I
was more involved in some analysts.
I was with them when we arrested Greer.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's one of the thingsthat I, another reason why this
case stands out so much is becauseI was in the back of the car.

(39:55):
'cause we're gonna do a searchwarrant of his house the day
that we're gonna arrest him.
And we got there and, really awkward.
They, I was in the car waiting 'causethey were gonna arrest him, and then I
was gonna go in because I'm not sworn.
Mm-hmm.
So I could search.
And we're looking, we're looking fordocumentation, we're looking for cash,
we're looking for stuff like that.
Like a mm-hmm.
Like you would, if you'refollowing the money.

(40:16):
And I'm in the car and there's aknock on the window and it's Travis
Lawson and an investigator, andhe's got Jim Greer in handcuffs.
And Jim Greer's face is bleeding.
Not because they had beat him, butbecause he had cut himself shaving
when they knocked on the door.
Mm-hmm.
And HECO helicopters wereflying over the house.
And I was like, what is this?

(40:37):
This is something likeout of a movie, scene.
So I get outta the carand Jim Ger was so nice.
He was like, Hey, how are you?
I was like, I'm good.
How are you?
I mean, obviously not good, but I feltthat I didn't, I didn't know what to say.
He was in his pajamas.
I felt so bad.
I was like, oh my God.
And then they were like,you have to wear FDE jacket.
And they rushed me in the houseand the wife and the kids were

(40:58):
there, which was so uncomfortable.
Oh yeah.
She said a couple words.
Yeah.
She said some stuff to methat wasn't nice at all.
And yeah.
And then we were there for a couplehours investigating and they wound up I
think Bob Phis he's another investigator.
I think he wound up saying, going toher and being like, Hey, are you, are
you like saying stuff to her becauseshe's the only one without a gun?

(41:18):
Come on.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, it was pretty bad.
It was really bad, but it was, but thatwas like something out of a movie scene.
Like it was insane.
I was like, what is happening?
But there was, there washelicopters flying overhead.
The most bizarre thing ever.
Yeah.
I was in on a the day that the resthappened on a big case that I was
working on, and that that is a verysurreal experience , certainly you're

(41:40):
not used to doing, being part of thatarrest day and all that, all the events.
But it is, it is very eyeopening.
And it Oh yeah, it definitely for thosethat, again, when you talked about
analysts can get out from behind thedesk, see how the real world works,
don't just work in the data world.

(42:00):
It, it's definitely, there is a,there is a lot that, that an analyst
can learn and bring to the table.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, and one of the things thatI kind of have going for me and I'm not
tooting my own horn, but like I knowwhen to kind of be quiet and be kind
and, and some analysts just can't, theyjust, it's, it's, they get so charged up.

(42:20):
But I mean the fact that like this womanwas saying some not nice words to me
and I just kind of let it roll off myback and didn't really say anything.
'cause I, I got it.
Like, I was like, yeah, feel bad.
I'm in your home, you're trying tofeed your kid and we just arrested your
husband, but but still at the end of theday I'm like, you're still the bad guy.
So but yeah, no, that was aninteresting, interesting day for sure.
Yeah.
And what did, what did he end up getting?

(42:42):
I had it here.
Yeah.
No, he wound up going, hewound up going to prison.
He wound up, so he, for 18 months left.
Yeah.
And then he wound up plea pleadingguilty and for, what was it?
Theft and money.
Money laundering.
Mm-hmm.
And then he wound up paying the re hewound up paying the Republican party back
65,000 in restitution and that was it.

(43:03):
And he took way more than 65,000.
So he.
In all honesty, he kind of got, he gota good deal as, as far as I'm concerned.
I mean, he was pretty crooked.
And now he's doing really well.
Like, I mean, he's, he's amillionaire and is doing fantastic.
And like I said, he's, he's I,well, and I always say, I'm like,
there's a difference in book smartand common sense and whatever.

(43:24):
He's got street smart.
He's, he's very street smart.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, he learned, he probablylearned to cover his tracks now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, but he's, I'm telling you,he makes a lot more money than we
do, Jason, a lot more money, so,
oh, oh, man.
, I'm trying to put myself inyour shoes at this moment.

(43:44):
Again, we're, you're a civilian analyst.
You're, dealing with data, you'reassisting with these big high profile
cases, and it's obviously you're workingon something where the Republican party
has an interest on what you're doing.
And not only, yeah, I'mguessing not only on just the.

(44:06):
State level, but thenational level as well.
Yeah.
And I think for this one, what madethis one a little bit different is
that, I wanna say towards the end,the Florida Republican Party, they
were ready to cut ties with him.
Mm-hmm.
Like they were, they were working with us.
They were like, yeah,just, just get rid of 'em.

(44:26):
Do what you need to do.
Whereas Foley was a little bit different.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, probably, I mean, if theevidence is there, I'm just like, wow,
we can't get around this evidence.
It's pretty, yeah.
It's, that's probably what it was.
It's like, Hey, we canonly, cover up so much.
Yeah,, it was interesting and like Isaid, I think what's crazy to me is

(44:47):
all three of them that we just spokeabout, all three are doing extremely
well after getting in trouble.
Jimmy, Jenny does a lot of privateconsultations and consulting and
whatever, and I think he does really well.
I know Jim Greer's doing really well,and I don't think Foley's hurting,
like, I think he's, I think he's doingjust fine because he didn't get in
trouble and he was able to save all ofhis like pension money and all that,

(45:10):
whereas Jenny lost all his retirement.
Yeah.
Well, hey, you're not you're sayingthere's there's life after corruption.
There is life after corruptionand it's pretty crazy.
I think if you are only a littlecorrupt, then you're okay.
It's the ones that are really corrupt.
Oh man.
So, all right, well that does kinda helpus to the, the fourth and final case.

(45:32):
And this is certainly justgetting at a different level here.
I mean, to, to this point we're talkingabout corruption and we're not talking
about violence, we're talking about moneyand lives being impacted financially.
So, but this last, case is,obviously way more serious, a way
bigger impact on, people's lives.

(45:52):
So this is the dozer school for the boys.
Case that obviously just me sayingthat for some people is going to
create a very visceral reaction.
But I guess again, let's just startfrom the beginning and tell the story.
Yeah.
So I don't.
Talk about this case all the time becausepeople are very, they're just, a lot of

(46:14):
people get really upset about this case.
But so our office, once again, thegovernor came to us and said, Hey,
we've got some stuff that's comein and we need you to look at this
school, this dozer school for boys.
At the time, it wasn't DozerSchool for Boys, it was called
something else, but it, it's, itwas, it's in Marianna, Florida.
And it's now housing violent ju juveniles.

(46:37):
And it's, we're justusing one small building.
But this, it's this whole campus.
It opened up like early 1900 andsupposedly there was a bunch of
beatings and sexual things happeningthat should not have been happening
between staff and students.
And you're gonna, weneed you to look at it.
So this one was really weird.
Because it was more his,it was all historical.

(46:59):
We weren't looking at anything current.
And we're talking about like ahundred year olds historical.
And it wasn't public corruption.
I mean, this was, somethingcompletely different.
There was no, I wasn't getting, I'm, Iwasn't gonna subpoena any bank records.
Anything like that.
Instead, I was gonna spend a lotof time in the library and I spent
a lot, a lot of time in the statelibrary and then also in the Marianna

(47:22):
records room in Jackson County.
And yeah, this one wasa case that went on.
I wanna say it started, maybe we startedlooking into it in 2008, and I was
still, I was still looking into thiscase off and on when it, whenever the
director would come and ask us to dosomething else till the day I left.

(47:42):
Like, I mean, this is one that is like, I,I feel like it's never ever gonna go away.
When you started working on this in 2008.
As you mentioned, you're kinda workingin the past is stuff had already happened
and you're trying to work in the past.
So like how old were some of these eventsthat you were trying to investigate?
So really old.
So, so it started with so we had to goback and start looking the first, so

(48:06):
basically this is a school for boys andthis is where Delinquent boys were sent.
Mm-hmm.
And they opened, they opened in 1900.
So.
We had to go back and look all theway to 1900, but we really had to
go back and look to when the firstdeaths occurred at the school.
And that was in 1911,and there was a fire.
And what you have to rememberis, and this is where people kind

(48:28):
of get mad when I start, like.
Spitting facts.
'cause once again, theseare, they're facts.
I'm like, I, whether you like'em or not, it is what it is.
This is a rural county and people died.
They died even in, in non-ruralareas, but this was a very rural area.
So people would die from the flu.
People would get picked,I a donkey, a mule.

(48:49):
Some kids drown.
They were sent there and some parentswould send their kids who were
mentally mentally ill or whatever.
And were not criminals.
But then a lot of the kids that weresent there were actual criminals,
especially after the years went byand they redesigned the school and
made it harder to send the kids there.
Like, so they weren't just taking the kidsthat maybe a family had too many kids and

(49:10):
they just couldn't feed one or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
And so a lot of the kids that weresent there were, were legit criminals.
Mm-hmm.
But so what we had to do iswe had to find the cemetery.
Which we had a plat, a map thatwas dated from way back when.
So I mean, the cemetery was never hidden.
And that's, that's one of the thingseveryone's always been like, oh, nobody
knew about the cemetery was hidden.

(49:31):
Nope, nope.
It was always there.
It was, it was marked.
We found an old map.
It had been marked forever.
A lot of the staff knew about it.
Staff used to actually keep itcleaned up, so it wasn't anything
that was like all of a sudden found.
Mm-hmm.
But there was, 32 crossesin this grave site.
'Cause it wasn't really a cemetery.

(49:51):
I mean, we're gonna call it a cemetery,but it really was not a cemetery
if you, if you see pictures of it.
But there was 32 crosses andso it was our job to find.
Who had passed away and who wethought was buried in these 32 graves.
Hmm.
It's a lot.
And we found the old crosses that hadbeen replaced with the new crosses
going through the woods, me and a coupleof the inspectors actually found old

(50:15):
crosses, so we had to collect those.
I mean, it was, it was really crazy.
And the paperwork for school that's beenopen over a hundred years, there's a lot.
There's a lot of it.
And a lot of it was held in buildingsthat had asbestos and were falling down
and we're able to go in those buildingsand find, and get some information.
And then some of it had beengotten rid of like burned because.

(50:38):
State law, you don't haveto keep all the records.
Mm-hmm.
After so many years you're allowed toburn and get rid of some of the records.
But that was a big controversy.
Everybody's like, oh, they'retrying to hide something.
And I'm like, no, no.
It's, it's absolutely, it's a state law.
Like you, after so many years,I mean, what are you gonna do
with all these paper records?
You mm-hmm.
You have to get rid of 'em, so.
Mm-hmm.
But this one was a big deal because therewas a lot of people that started coming

(51:00):
outta the woodwork, wanting money sayingthat they had been beaten and that they
had been sexually molested . And so whatwound up being what we thought would be
a fairly simple, figuring out who wasin these 32 graves wound up being even
more complicated, because then we werehaving to, we've gather these people
now saying, Hey, I want some money.
I I wanna be compensatedfor what happened to me.

(51:20):
So then we're having to go downtheir, their history and have to
figure out what, when were they there?
Were they there at allwhen they were there?
Are they, were they.
Beaten by this one guy thatthey said was that beat them.
Was he there at the same time?
So it, like, it was, it was a lot.
It was, it was a whole heck of a lot.
Yeah.
And let's,
yeah, let's let's, let's keepthose separate for the time being.

(51:42):
So the, the 32, and you're, as you'retrying to, and figure out the, records
and, and documentation for the 32 graves,what did you find when, going down
that path
okay.
So once again, we're afact finding agency, so

(52:03):
mm-hmm.
We, so whether, no matter howwe feel about this case and,
and certain things mm-hmm.
Like that, that's, we don'tput that in this case.
And so that's huge.
So yeah, so when we started looking upthe different deaths you had the fire,
that was in 1911, then you had like a flu.
, Pandemic that happened shortly after that.
And through the years, like Isaid, kids, passed away and it's

(52:25):
a rural county, it's gonna happen.
So we were able to find, and thankGod, I mean these, libraries and
kids today, if you don't go anduse the library, are just crazy.
These libraries still have a lot of oldarticles from like 1911 and going through
and then you could find old, record bookswhere because this was a state school,

(52:49):
they would have to, they would have totype up and create these books at the
end of the year, and they would, theywould have to give them to the state
and then the state would publish 'em.
So mm-hmm.
We would go back and find these oldbooks, and then these old books, they
would talk about like, oh yeah, we losta white boy on such and such date, he
was kicked by a mule, blah, blah, blah.
And it would move on.

(53:09):
So you might not know the name, butyou were like, oh, okay, well here's
a, here's another kid that died.
And, and so I startedkeeping a spreadsheet.
And in my spreadsheet I have literallyconfirmed deaths, not un unknown
burial, confirmed deaths buried inthe cemetery, and then confirmed
deaths, unknown burial, becauseit's very expensive to move a body.
And so a lot of families wouldsay, no, just bury my child there.

(53:31):
Mm-hmm.
So not only do I have.
A bunch of old news clippings,which once again, thank God, but we
also were blessed enough to find aton of actual death certificates.
And I have death certificates datingback from 1908 which is great.
The vital Statistics officeout of Jacksonville, Florida.
They were fantastic in helpingus and guiding us on how

(53:53):
to get some of these items.
Granted, we had to subpoena all of it.
I mean, you can't just go and askfor somebody's loan certificate.
But we were able to prove.
And pretty much what we feel, name, andonce again, we're trying to be factual
name the 32 that are in the grapes.
And so for us, there was no questionwhen we finished, well, what we thought

(54:14):
was finished this investigation, wefelt like we accomplished what was asked
for us to do, which was identify thecemetery, identify that it was, or to
note that it, they never tried to hide it.
Mm-hmm.
And then also identify what we think,which bodies are in the graves.
So we did all that.
Out of all the deaths, there's only one.
And there was one, and I hadthis spreadsheet pulled up.

(54:37):
I don't know if I still do.
It was a kid who he had run awayfrom campus and, his family actually
found him and he had been shot andhe was in his bed and he lived in
the town right outside of Marianna.
And out of all the deaths, that wasthe only one that we were like, Hmm,
that's a, that's a little shady.
Like, I mean mm-hmm.

(54:57):
They found his body, I mean, they hadhis body, but it, the fact that he was
shot and he was in his bed, but he wasin the bed with the sheet pulled up.
Like he, I mean, he didn't commitsuicide, so that was the only one that
we're like, that's really interesting.
And granted you,
so you don't think, if you.
You don't think it was suicide?
No.
Uhuh?
No.
We don't know.
Like what could it have been?

(55:18):
Like one of the siblings saw himaccidentally shot him because he
snuck up in the middle of the night.
'cause he'd run away.
Or I mean, who know could, I'm tellingyou, these rural counties, the way that
they worked back then was really weird.
And I would go back and find these statestatutes and see that's another thing.
These state statutes.
You were allowed to spank, youwere allowed to do all this stuff.

(55:39):
And, and I would likeput all that out there.
'cause I was like, Hey, I just want you toknow some of the things that we think are
so atrocious today was allowed back then.
And there's state statutessaying, Hey, you can do this.
Even though we would not do ittoday, it was allowed back then.
And so that's the other thing we.
A lot of people have to removethemselves from present day and
think like what it was like in 1950.

(56:00):
Yeah.
Corporate punishmentgoing on, at the, school.
So as you mentioned, like what you wereasked to do, the task at hand, you, you're
asked to about these 32 graves and to gothrough and be able to tell the story of
the, and review the documentation aroundthe 32, you were able to accomplish that.

(56:25):
And besides one, there , didn'tseem to be any wrongdoing going on.
No.
I mean, and, and like, I'm, I just pulledup my spreadsheet that I have mm-hmm.
Just from my old records and yeah, like.
I have died by drowning.
I have accident accidentallyran over by a mule.
We found that in one of the schoolnewspapers, 'cause they used to

(56:45):
publish their own newspaper diedafter illness of pneumonia at 12:30
AM and that was in the yellow jacket,school, newspaper influenza epidemic.
Died after illness was lung trouble.
And then I would get thedeath certificate, and then
the death certificate wouldsay pulmonary tuberculosis.
We did our job and what stinks isthat people weren't satisfied with it.

(57:07):
Like a lot of especially the guyswho were trying to like, wanted
some compensation from the state.
A lot of people were unhappy withthat, and it really stinks because
today , this story in this case hasspun off into like a gazillion books
and movies and TV shows and what makesme mad and I like, I can't watch any
of it because none of it's factual.

(57:29):
Like, , nobody, publishedlike the real stuff.
Like there's, there was somebody who cameand supposedly found identified a whole
bunch of bodies that we didn't know about.
And I'm like, that's not true.
And I mean, it's, so this is oneof those cases that I still get so
mad about, only because nobody everreally came to us, came and asked and
interviewed any, any of the analysts,interviewed any of the inspectors.

(57:52):
And so the facts that are likepublished right now that are out
there for all the public to read,a lot of those are not facts.
And so that this case bothers me probablymore than any of the cases I ever worked
because the truth isn't even out there.
So in terms of now kind of theother side of the coin, in terms
of those that are spent time.

(58:14):
At the school and noware telling their story.
Was that investigatedby you or your office?
Yeah.
So there was there was a group andI, I even hate mentioning their
name and giving 'em any publicity,but there was a group called the
White House Boys, and there was.
Four original guys, and weinterviewed all four of 'em.

(58:36):
And they were all, they wereall very nice, very pleasant.
But they, and it's funny.
Okay, hold on, let me say, letme stay on my one track and then
I'll, and then I'll jump off.
But they were all pleasant.
We interviewed all four of 'em.
They basically said that they were beat inthis White House that was on the campus.
100% true.
It was definitely where you went whenyou got your spankings for 100% True.

(59:00):
And they said that they werebeat uncontrollably and they
should be compensated, after thisinvestigation had gone for a little
while, for a few months or whatnot.
Then it came out, oh, well, hold on.
We forgot to mention we werealso sexually abused, so it
wound up just being like nonstop.
The thing about the White House,the White House at one point stored
ice cream, which is insane to me.

(59:22):
But yes, it was a place where thekids, when they were getting punished,
they would go and get spanked.
Mm-hmm.
Once again, most of the kids sent theschool in the, from the 1940s on, were
sent because they were bad kids orjuveniles, they weren't, or like mm-hmm.
What we would consider stealingcars and stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
And before, before that, yeah,a lot of kids were sent that

(59:42):
should not have been there.
Mm-hmm.
But, but the thing is, yeah, youhave to punish the kids somehow.
And today, I mean, I would take my kid,put 'em in a chair and sit 'em in the
middle of the living room and be like,no one's, you are not allowed to get up
for like an hour, but back then mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Corporal, you were allowed to do corporalpunishment, but we went with a forensics
with forensics and tested all the walls.

(01:00:02):
There's no blood.
I mean, granted, do webelieve these people for sure.
Mm-hmm.
But it, but as far as like people beingmurdered in the White House, who knows?
We weren't alive then.
There's no, we, we don'thave anything to prove it.
We did test the walls.
There's no blood, butit could have happened.
I mean, I don't know.
But that, yeah, so thatwas a whole nother spin.

(01:00:22):
And that is where stuffgot really, really messy.
And that's where things got really crazy.
But I will say some of these kids thatwere sent probably were not that bad.
They were probably sent forsomething really stupid.
Like, I stole a, a candy barfrom whatever the, the little
convenience store was back then.
But then there was kids thatwere, that were really bad.

(01:00:43):
And we have we heard storiesabout some of the kids raping
some of the women staff on campus.
I mean, so you gotta rememberlike there really were some
bad kids that were sent there.
were you able to conclude that there wastrue physical and sexual abuse going on?
We were never able toprove the sexual abuse.
But as far as the physical, yes.

(01:01:05):
They kept, the schoolkept really great records.
So remember I told you, yes, someof the records had been burned, but
then there was a lot of these reallyold records that had been, that had
been shoved in like attics and stuff,and a lot of these buildings that
were falling down and had asbestos.
So the staff doesn't wanna go inthere to get those records, right.
So of course us we're like, oh yeah, we'renot scared of asbestos or anything crazy.

(01:01:28):
So we, searched all these buildingsand got as many boxes and, and
documents that we could get.
The school was fantastic about keepingrecords sometimes of like kids who got
spankings and they would put in therelike, Hey, John Doe, he was, he did
this and he's going to the White House.
Oh, it didn't say White House,but it would say, he's gonna get
spanked this many, he's gonnaget this many licks, da da da da.

(01:01:50):
So yeah, no, we know that these kidswere definitely getting spanked in
corporal punishment or whatever.
We've never said that that didn't happen.
To the extent, who knows?
I mean, I'm sure there's a lotof sick people out there, so I'm
sure there was definitely somestaff that was overdoing it.
But as far as the sexualstuff, there's no record of it.
Nobody's alive anymore, or atleast when we were interviewing,

(01:02:13):
there was very few people that.
Were alive that far back.
I mean, we did interview as much staffas we could that had been around forever.
There was one guy that worked therefor a very, very brief amount of time.
He was a, he was actually a preacherand he worked at one of the, because
they had two different, they had twodifferent sides of the campus, so one
for minorities and one for white people.

(01:02:34):
I mean, this is segregation back then.
Mm-hmm.
And this, this one preacher, they,there were some questions about him
and they got rid of him immediatelyand we were able to speak with that.
They didn't call him a principal,but he was in charge of the school.
Mm-hmm.
We, we were actually, were thelast interview with him before
he passed away, but he got ridof that guy almost immediately.
Yeah.
So, who knows?
I mean, maybe he did something,but, but the problem is for us

(01:02:58):
as analysts, we're fact finders.
Mm-hmm.
So I, if I don't, I could thinkand guess whatever I want, but
if I don't have a fact in frontof me, then I, I'm gonna move on.
Yeah.
And that bothers a lot of people.
, You weren't able to prove thatthere was this institutional
pattern of corruption, right.

(01:03:18):
That I think peoplewere assuming was there.
Yeah, we were not, but if youread the books that are out there
and you watch the movies, I mean,this place was like terrible.
But I mean, it really wasn't, itwasn't as bad as, as it's portrayed.
Was it a bad place?
For sure.
But a lot of these kidswere really bad too.
Yeah.
Why?
Why do you think thisgot so many variations?

(01:03:42):
So, so much movies and books spawn from.
The events that happened at the school
I mean, I don't know.
I could say a lot of stuff, but Igotta be careful how I, what I say.
Yeah.
People get really sympathetic and we hada bunch of older guys coming forward and
it was really good in front of the camera.
Like a lot of 'em would cry.

(01:04:03):
We had two of theoriginal White House boys.
One was a very, very.
Well known author and wasreally good at writing.
Then we had another onethat was also an author.
There was one of theoriginal White House boys.
He had a lot of money to helpget this going in the beginning.
And he actually, what I was gonnasay about him earlier and I think
is interesting is before thisinvestigation started, he actually

(01:04:26):
gave a scholarship every year to oneof the kids at Dozier School for boys
and would go and present it every year.
So he was really involved in the school.
So I don't, it was weird how he was reallyinvolved, given a scholarship to the
kid that had made the most improvementor whatever, and then all of a sudden.
He's like, oh no, the school's reallybad and we're gonna sue him to the state.

(01:04:48):
So I don't know.
I think that especially the one guy thatwas the really good author, I think,
like they just really did a great job ofconstantly talking to people, constantly
asking for interviews, reaching out.
They reached out to Pam Bondy.
They like, I mean, it was, I mean, I hadto present this to the governor's office.
I had to do a whole PowerPoint and I mean,we had to make all these books booklets to

(01:05:11):
give out to the whole governor's office.
And I mean, it was a big deal.
But that's all I can figure is thatpeople kind of get sympathetic and then
they start going a little crazy over it.
I mean, we see it today.
We see it all the time.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's, it's interesting withthis, the way you described this case.
It's interesting how much documentation.

(01:05:34):
There is at the same time, thereis a lot of gaps and obviously
when you have that dark side ofthe moon, you have those gaps.
People will fill in what, whateverthey can imagine or there might
fill in the gaps themselves.
And I think that the idea that you had,you talked about going back in the fifties

(01:05:58):
and this school and there's just so much.
Questionable stuff going onand not a lot of answers.
Yeah.
And the statute oflimitations too doesn't help.
Yeah.
So like these, these guys thatwere coming out and saying, Hey, I
was beat or I was sexually abused.
Statute of limitations.
A lot of times their time was up.
And so then, so then thatwould be another bad thing.

(01:06:21):
Oh, the state's trying tolike, not compensate them.
And it was like, this,this is, this isn't me.
This is like, what's, thisis what's in our state law.
So and, and once again, the school was sobad in the beginning when it first opened,
there was a lot of really crazy stuff thathappened, but that's also very normal.
And as time progressed, theschool also got better, but they

(01:06:44):
were still a very rural county.
So whatever we were doing inLeon County, which is considered
rural compared to Broward.
But whatever we were doinghere, there's, they were still
like 10 and 15 years behind us.
Mm-hmm.
So, like, that's whatpeople have to understand.
I mean, this is still a very, veryrural county when you go today.
Mm-hmm.
And so it, they just were always behind.

(01:07:04):
So even though the school did do their,maybe do their best to, to eventually
get out of some of the things that theywere doing that was wrong, it took them
longer than I would like Leon County.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?
So, trying to explain that.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
. This case bothers me so bad because likeI said we just reported the facts and
the facts weren't enough for some people.

(01:07:25):
So the stuff that's reported,like I'll read an article and
I'm like, are you kidding me?
So and so discovered this many graves.
I'm like, when was this?
Because I was there.
I was there when theywere, when they were there.
So I get really upset.
And then there was an author I used toread his books and I loved his books.
And then he dedicated his book to thesepeople and I was like, are you kidding me?
So I don't read that author anymore.

(01:07:46):
'cause it just made me so upset.
I was like, I was like, well, you're done.
You're not getting my money anymore.
Yeah.
So,
yeah.
, What's came out of this case?
'cause the school closed, right?
And yeah.
And then I'm, did some of the folks,did the state have to pay out?
Did the, did the state apologize?
Was there reform?

(01:08:06):
Yeah, so yeah, so the school closed andwhen it, at the time that it closed, it
had already, most of the, most of thecampus was already closed at that point.
So, and this is like, if you go on thiscampus, it truly is like something out
of a scary movie because the buildingshave been kind of abandoned and mother
Nature has taken over and whatnot.
So they closed the the school, the,the last little bit that was there.
And that was for the, forjuvenile delinquents that.

(01:08:29):
Pretty bad.
And then it went back and forth andwhat are they gonna do with the land?
'cause it's beautiful land.
I mean, it's gorgeous land.
Mm-hmm.
And so they talked about they're gonnagive it to the county, make it into
a park, like do all these differentthings, which I'm like, why are you
gonna make it into the park if yousaid all these terrible things happen?
Like, I wouldn't wantto take my kid there.
Mm-hmm.
The last, the last that I read.
And you know what, I don't, I don'tkeep up on it as much because I

(01:08:51):
am so like, disgusted with likewhat, what all's out in the news.
Mm-hmm.
But the last I read was that withthe last storm that came through and
really messed up Mariana this justrecently happened that it really messed
up the sheriff's department there.
And so I think from what Iread, the sheriff's department.
Now they now have the buildings.

(01:09:14):
They, they are allowed to use the campusand the buildings that are good, like not
the asbestos, like falling down buildings.
So that was the last I read,and that's been very recent.
And yes some of, a lot of theseguys who claimed all these different
things, 100% were paid out.
Mm-hmm.
Not a large sum, but a sum.

(01:09:34):
And then some of the studentswho were found buried some of the
family would be like, oh, we didn'twant our son to be buried there.
But then we would find stuff thatsaid, please bury my son there
from like, the family who's nolonger here to say that they were,
they okayed it, but that's okay.
Mm-hmm.
The state paid for the state, paidfor those bodies to be dug up from the

(01:09:56):
cemetery and then moved and buried.
To wherever they want.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So a lot of money has beenspent on this investigation, a
whole heck of a lot of money.
Yeah.
And again, once again, it, we got fourhere and it seems like, oh, you got
two where there's a complete story, acomplete investigation from beginning

(01:10:17):
to end, and you have two in therethat are just, man, it just didn't
doesn't have the ending that Yeah.
You wish you had.
Yeah.
And that's why I wanted to talk about'em, because all four of these were
pretty, like high profile cases.
Mm-hmm.
It's crazy to look at how much how onewas pretty like, straightforward, ran the

(01:10:39):
way that investigation should run, theway that we all wanna run an investigation
from, the beginning to the end.
The second one had , nobodywas helping us.
I mean, no, I mean, it was like roadblockafter roadblock after roadblock.
And then the third one, that one endedfine, but it was weird how it ended.
And it was sloppy, but we got it done.
And then this one.
Should be ended.
But it's not because it neverwill be because people just,

(01:11:02):
they didn't like the facts.
It's not, the facts aren't fun.
So yeah, they're not prettythey're not, I don't know.
It's not, it's notsexy, it's not exciting.
So this one is just like one that'sjust gonna keep on keeping on
and it's, it's, it sucks a lot.
Yeah.
So, so with all of these being highprofile, was there ever a situation

(01:11:23):
where you felt like either people wereinvestigating you or surveilling you
? Yes.
So we get a lot of death threatsand the one of the reasons why I
wound up leaving FDLE, but is that.
My name, my husband's name,and my oldest daughter's name
showed up on a death threat list.
Mm-hmm.

(01:11:43):
It had my address, it had my address,it had my personal phone number,
and it had my daughter's name.
Like I was, she was not even, Imean, she might've been 14 or 15.
I mean, I, I don't remember now,but I was like, are you kidding me?
And so, yeah, I was on a lot of listsas somebody that should be taken
out, which is really ridiculous.

(01:12:03):
Mm-hmm.
There was people I did not get alongwith that definitely do not love me and
would be okay if they never saw me again.
So,
, That's tough.
'cause that, I mean, obviouslythat's a whole other level.
When we, talked about a lot on this.
Podcasts, the, different contributionsof analyst and the data that
you're working on and, and thecontributions to the investigations.

(01:12:26):
It's interesting and it'scan be fun and games, right?
And then you get to certain situationswhere, oh, it's not fun anymore.
It's, this is a, certainly you getto this area where it's like, oh,
my, my family's being impacted.
I'm in fear for my family.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

(01:12:47):
And then they started sending, and Iknow this happens a lot, so I mean, I'm
not complaining, I'm just saying thisis some of the stuff that bothered me.
Mm-hmm.
They started sending us to putting me ata non-sworn analyst on hurricane duty.
And so they would send us to wherethe hurricane's gonna hit before the
hurricane hits so we can be there whenthe hurricane hits so we can help.
And I'm like, well, how do weknow that we're still gonna be

(01:13:08):
there when the hurricane hits?
Is the hurricane gonnatake us like, mm-hmm.
And that kind of bothered me.
I was like I'm leaving for a week to go.
To an area that's about to be hitby a hurricane and I'm leaving my
family and I'm not I'm not sworn,I don't get paid this special pay.
And so yeah, it was, it's crazy thestuff that was happening when I left.
Yeah.

(01:13:28):
So let's, talk aboutthe decision to leave.
, You go from, this jobto the private sector?
So I wanna talk a littlebit about that transition.
Yeah, so it was really hard forme because I really loved my job.
I liked my job a whole heck of a lot.
I loved public corruption and Iliked when we would get interesting
cases in that were different.
So it would change it up everynow and then, like the Dozier case

(01:13:50):
and we had like a couple murdercases come in, stuff like that.
So, so it was, it was nice.
As far as, education wise, I mean, theywere really great about sending us to
different trainings and I appreciatedthat because that's one of the biggest
things is you gotta be up and upon, on all the more recent trainings
mm-hmm.
So I loved all that, but Iwasn't getting paid enough.
Like, I mean, I hate to say that, but.

(01:14:12):
I just was not getting paid enough.
And so I was kind of like I'mworking and I'm traveling.
I'm driving to Broward County becausethere we were not flying anymore.
So I was driving to like Miamiand Broward County nonstop.
I'm a myself in a safe car.
For those that don't know, like what?

(01:14:32):
I'm laughing because Tallahassee toMiami is what, like an eight hour drive?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I would work until like one ortwo, and then I would drive to Miami,
check in some seedy area like me, andI'm little if people don't know what
I look like, but I'm a, I'm not a bigperson, so I'm like a easy target.

(01:14:54):
I would check in at like midnightand then the next morning do like a
meeting at 9:00 AM and then drive back.
And I was just like, okay.
Between, between the co, the travel.
The like the going to thehurricane the areas that are
gonna get hit by the hurricane.
And then my daughter showing up on thedeath threat list, I was just like,
okay, I'm not getting paid enough forthis, so I need to figure something out.

(01:15:16):
I need to better myselfand better my family.
So, yeah.
So I left and it was hard.
It was very hard and I still lovethat job, but I wouldn't go back
'cause they can't pay me enough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you, you go to the privatesector with is it Pondera Solutions?
Yeah, I went to PonderaSolutions and mm-hmm.
It was very, very different.

(01:15:36):
Mm-hmm.
Because it was something, it was somethingthat I wasn't that interested in, but it
was more pay and so I'm glad I did it.
And it is private.
I mean, they, if they ask you todo something at two o'clock in the
morning, you definitely gotta do it.
But it was more Medicaid fraud andlooking at doctors who were over
prescribing opioids and the, all theissues going on with the opioids.

(01:15:58):
And then, yeah, it wasjust, it was very different.
Different in terms of obviously itwas Medicare fraud that you mentioned,
but I guess in terms of the officeenvironment, was it more cutthroat?
How did it differ , from the stateoffice that you just came from?
So I was used to working withinspectors, and inspectors are

(01:16:21):
usually they were cops first, so.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, cops, you kind of knowwhat you're getting with cops.
I mean, not trying to stereotype cops.
Mm-hmm.
But they are who they are.
And this was different.
I, I did not work withanybody who was sworn mm-hmm.
Or had, I think there was one gentlemanwho had been a cop, and that's it.
And so, yeah, it wasvery, I don't even know.

(01:16:41):
It was just that, it was justa very different atmosphere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, you, you leave thereand now you're a realtor.
And Yeah.
So I, I always like to talkabout what people do after they
leave law enforcement analysis.
And so you're doingquite well as a realtor.
Congratulations.

(01:17:01):
But I'm, I'm just curious some ofthe things that you learned during
your analyst career, how have theyhelped you in your realtor gig?
Well, I think to be a realtor,one of the most important things
is to be extremely organized.
I mean, there's a lot going on andyou have to be organized not just
for yourself, but for your clients.

(01:17:23):
And so.
When you're an analyst, that's,I mean, you have to be organized.
If you're not organized, you'renot gonna make a good analyst.
And if you're not somewhat type A,and you don't have to be a hundred
percent type A, but you gotta havesomething a little bit of that type A
personality so that you make sure thatthings are done on time and whatnot.
And I think that that's one of thebiggest things with realtors is

(01:17:43):
keeping up with, because there'sso many timelines, there's so many
things that you have to meet on time.
And so many things have to be.
I mean, they're really strict about,like, t's being crossed i's being dotted.
I mean, it's a lot.
And so and it's funny, soI'm a spreadsheet person,
I'm a spreadsheet junkie.
I use Excel and I still useExcel to keep up with all my

(01:18:04):
clients and what's happening.
And I've shared, I created thisspreadsheet and I've shared it
with so many agents and I'm like,use this as a tool to help you.
But some of them are sodisorganized, they're like, I
still haven't use that spreadsheet.
And I'm like, well, if youuse the spreadsheet, you
wouldn't be missing deadlines.
But so that has helped me, I thinkthat's helped me the most is, is

(01:18:28):
the fact that with being an analyst,you learn how important it is.
To be organized and you wind upwith like, I don't know, I think
one case that had 17 bank accounts.
And so you gotta keep up with all that.
And, and so that helps you be an organizedrealtor and being an organized realtor
is the only way to be a good realtor.

(01:18:49):
Nice.
All right.
Very good.
All right, well let's finishup with personal interest then.
And as I mentioned in the, in thebeginning of this we were neighbors
and we met in quite an unusual way.
I, I think it was 2018 andwe had Hurricane Michael come
through Tallahassee, one ofthe worst in a long time.

(01:19:12):
But we met because the, your, yourproperty's to the back of mine and
some of my trees, fell and crushedyour fences and, and, and you were
way more unfortunate than I was.
I just had a couple oftrees down on the property.
But your property sustainedway more damage than mine.
Yes.
We long, we had a tree come in.

(01:19:34):
Our house and we lost part of our, most ofour garage . We lost both cars even though
they were not parked together, so, wow.
How lucky were we?
And we lost, I think, 11 trees.
It was insane.
It, and we were, we live in a cul-de-sac,and our cul-de-sac was completely blocked.
You could not get out.
And it was funny.
This is the first hurricane that Ican remember that was during the day.

(01:19:54):
So we got to watch all of it happen.
Which is really scary.
We should have left.
But who knew?
I mean and the best thing that happenedto us from that hurricane is we met
you and your wife and other neighborswe had never met because Yeah.
After the storm was gone, people justshowed up with chainsaws and they're
like, we're gonna cut you guys out.

(01:20:15):
So it was fantastic.
And so yeah, we wound up makinggreat friends from it, but
it really, it sucked a lot.
Yeah.
It's not gonna lie.
No, and that's, and even so, I don'tlike when people are blocked off.
Right.
I, I feel that people shouldhave a pathway to get out in
various aspects of your life.

(01:20:36):
And so anytime I see a tree fall andit just, it's clear across the road
blocking the road, I, I try to godown there and get a path through so
people, people can get in and out.
And that was definitely,well, we didn't have a
car.
Yeah.
We didn't have a car to go anywhere.
But Yeah.
I mean, it, it would've been nice.
People have to understand that Tallahasseetouts the number of trees that it has.

(01:21:00):
It's the tree is city, I guessis a word that I've heard.
And so yeah, there's, trees everywhereand there's power lines above ground.
And there's, I mean, oh yeah, we werewithout power for, for almost a week.
And even worse that we didn't havecell phone coverage for like two days.
So that was really, yeah.
Unnerving.

(01:21:21):
It was like, oh, I couldn't even.
Contact family and friends tolet them know that we were okay.
It was that was really themost unnerving about that storm
is not having cell coverage.
Yeah.
It was pretty bad.
And my daughter was upset because shecouldn't get her driver's license.
And I was like, okay.
I was like, that's the lastthing I'm worried about right

(01:21:42):
now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well that's but that's teenagers.
Yeah.
They're, they got,
you
know, everybody has their priorities.
But yeah, I mean, I do, I still thinkback clearing everything out and, and
it was, it was nice to see, as youmentioned, that the community came
together in the neighborhood and , youcan go and not know your neighbors.
And for when that event everybody came outand I remember Ja, Jason, your neighbor.

(01:22:07):
He walks to the neighborhood all thetime at his bare feet and he is out
there like sawing wood in his bare feet.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
No, it was, it's crazy.
I mean, but you know what?
We had never met him, so we'relike, oh, thank you so much.
Please watch out for your toes.
So, yeah, but it, but yeah,it was it was a bad thing, but

(01:22:28):
out of it came something good.
Yeah.
Oh, oh, very good.
All right.
Callie, it, this has been fun.
I am glad we finally took the timeto do this congratulations to you
on all you were able to accomplish.
The stories were great today , reallyappreciate your perspective and
contributions to the profession.
Well, sorry, I was all over the place.

(01:22:48):
I, I should have refreshed my mind onsome of this stuff before I got on here.
Oh, no, it's all good.
All right, so our last segment of the showis Words to the World, and this is where
you can promote any idea that you wish.
What are your words to the world?
So right now, everything is a littlescary, and I just, I know it's gonna
sound crazy when I say this, 'causethis is probably very cliche, but.

(01:23:11):
I just want people to be nice.
Just, just remember, like when you'rein Publix and the, the old lady in
front of you is blocking the path andyou can't get to the rice because she's
reading all the packets of the rice.
Maybe she needs some help.
Maybe like, maybe justask, Hey, can I help you?
Don't get aggravated.
Just if you need to go around her,go around her, leave the, leave
the aisle, go to the next aisle.

(01:23:31):
Just be nice in this world right now.
That's what we need.
Very good.
Well, I leave every guestwith you giving me just enough
to talk bad about you later.
Yep.
But I do appreciate youbeing on the show, Callie.
Thank you so much.
And you be safe.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you for making it tothe end of another episode of

(01:23:52):
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
You can show your support by sharingthis and other episodes found
on our website@www.podcasts.com.
If you have a topic you would likeus to cover or have a suggestion for
our next guest, please send us anemail at elliot podcasts@gmail.com.
Till next time, analysts, keep talking.

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Analyst Talk - Callie Rhoads - The Public Corruption Analyst

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Analyst Talk - Callie Rhoads - The Public Corruption Analyst