September 22, 2025 • 63 mins
Episode: 00285 Released on September 22, 2025 Description: From Army intelligence to law enforcement analysis, Erica Logan has built a career defined by discipline, adaptability, and service. She shares her transition from military all-source analyst to criminal intelligence work in California, her pivotal “analyst badge” stories, and her experiences teaching with the Defense Intelligence Agency. Erica also opens up about the challenges veterans face in the job market, her pursuit of a PhD in criminology, and her commitment to prevention, mentorship, and community safety. Congratulations to Erica on her continued impact and leadership in the field! 🎧 Listen, share, and keep talking! [Note: Description produced by ChatGPT.]
Name Drops: Colonel John Franta (00:17:38) Public Service Announcements: IACA Elections. Please vote. https://iacanet.memberclicks.net/candidates-25?servId=11337 Election Forums: https://community.iaca.net/discuss/viewcategory/143 Joshua Todd (https://www.leapodcasts.com/e/atwje-josh-todd-the-adirondack-analyst/ )
Related Links: https://www.keiseruniversity.edu/criminal-justice-and-criminology-phd/ https://future.utsa.edu/programs/certificate/intelligence-studies/ https://cce.csus.edu/crime-and-intelligence-analysis-certificate-program? https://www.gcu.edu/degree-programs/master-arts-history-education https://catalog.apus.edu/undergraduate/academic-programs/bachelors/bachelor-arts-history/ https://www.cochise.edu/programs/intelligence-operations.html https://skullgames.org/ Association(s) Mentioned: Vendor(s) Mentioned: Contact: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-l-67b99298/ Transcript: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/spjfw76e4pzhvccn/EricaLogan_transcript.pdf Podcast Writer: Podcast Researcher: Theme Song: Written and Recorded by The Rough & Tumble. Find more of their music at www.theroughandtumble.com. Logo: Designed by Kyle McMullen. Please visit www.moderntype.com for any printable business forms and planners. Podcast Email: leapodcasts@gmail.com Podcast Webpage: www.leapodcasts.com Podcast Twitter: @leapodcasts
00:00:17 – Introducing Angie 00:07:24 – Starting as an Analyst 00:10:25 – ABS: Operation Scrapbook 00:16:53 – San Antonio 00:19:43 – Hawaii 00:29:07 – ABS: Auto Theft Problem? 00:34:22 – Break: Vote & Joshua Todd 00:35:21 – Washington, DC 00:41:06 – Advice for Analysts and Veterans 00:49:08 – PhD 00:56:02 – Skull Games & IACA Working Group 01:01:50 – Words to the World
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
(00:01):
It's like coffee with an analyst,or it could be whiskey with an
analyst reading a spreadsheet,linking crime events, identifying a
series, and getting the latest scoopon association news and training.
So please don't beat that analystand join us as we define the law
enforcement analysis profession.
One episode at a time.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope many aspects ofyour life are progressing.
My name is Jason Elder, and todayour guest has six years of law
(00:25):
enforcement analysis experiencewith 20 years of military and law
enforcement experience overall.
She has a bachelor's in history.
She's a certified crimeand intelligence analyst.
She's got her master's in history and apost certificate in intelligence studies.
And because that's not enough,she's currently studying her PhD in
(00:49):
criminology from Kaiser University.
She was a supervisor, all sourceintelligence analyst with the US Army
Reserve here to talk about, among otherthings, veterans in the job market.
Please welcome Erica Logan.
Erica, how we doing?
I'm
well.
How about yourself, Jason?
I am doing very well.
(01:09):
It's great to hear from you.
It's great to talk to youyesterday during the prep call.
It's funny, we were in talks todo a project last year together
on education and training.
It never formulated.
I was like, oh, , I didn't have you onthe podcast, but since we were talking so
much last year, it felt in my head thatI had already had you on the podcast.
(01:33):
But here we are.
Yeah.
That's something I feel likemaybe we should look at again.
Let's revisit that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's an interesting topic.
I always like to talk about educationand training and law enforcement
analysis and it's a, it's a big part ofwhy analysts network and try to grow.
Exactly.
Alright, well let's startfrom the beginning though.
(01:54):
How did you discover the lawenforcement analysis profession?
Well, I had been active dutyArmy as an intelligence analyst.
And I actually got out in 2015 joined thereserves from active duty and I went home
to my small town of Merced, California.
And unfortunately I knew that I wouldn'tbe able to use my analyst skills in
(02:15):
that area until about 2017 when I cameacross a job for criminal information
analyst position with the MercedCounty District Attorney's office.
Of course, I applied and interviewedand eventually got the job and
that's when I realized I couldtake my military analytical skills.
To law enforcement andbuild a career around that.
(02:38):
I'm curious to go back a little bitfarther about your decision to go
into the military in the first place.
A as you were thinking back, , whatwere your goals and aims back then?
Well, I was of that generationthat was impacted by nine 11.
So when I graduated high school,I knew that school wasn't
(02:58):
the thing for me at the time.
And my next door neighbor actually wasa recruiter, so he got me got me in
and he got me into a really good job.
So I, I do definitely appreciatehim for that 'cause I could have
easily gotten a really terrible job.
But at the end I selectedan Intel analyst.
And so from 2005 until.
(03:21):
2015, I was an all sourceintelligence analyst.
Huh.
And so go into that a little bit.
All source analyst.
In terms of the military, I guessit sounds like it's everything,
but I'm sure there's limitationsto what you were studying.
Well, I, I definitely think theintelligence fields that make up
(03:44):
all sorts such as human, which.
Cient those are kind of the, themajor ones that translate over
to law enforcement, but mm-hmm.
When you think of human, it wasyour undercover guys, right?
Or mm-hmm.
Your informants.
Those are the human aspect of it.
Cient I always think of, like, if you'redoing pens and pings on cell tower
(04:06):
analysis, those types of things fit moreinto what would be traditional cient.
Mm-hmm.
So my role as an all source analystwas taking, and there's a plethora
of different ints as we call'em in the Intel community is.
Taking all that information that isout there and deriving an all source
(04:27):
analyst product, which is taking all thatinformation and create, creating into one.
Hmm.
And so, so then I guess talk about yourtransition then, as you were, as you
mentioned, you weren't sure how yourskills would translate, but looking back
on it now, how did the, the militaryprepare you for the, for the analyst job?
(04:52):
Well, I definitely thinkit is the discipline.
Mm-hmm.
And having some bearing, it's lawenforcement, I, I hate kinda just to
say it, but it's paramilitary, right.
It's very structured.
Mm-hmm.
Very rigid just like the military is.
And so it was a very.
It was an easier step into thecivilian sector, mm-hmm For me to
(05:13):
be going from active duty soldierto a civilian in the workforce,
but working for law enforcement.
Mm-hmm.
So I often say on this show that Ithink with the military, for those
that transfer from the military.
To law enforcement analysis that there'sa big difference I feel, in terms of
(05:37):
data that I feel that in the militarythere's so much more documentation,
so many written reports for an Intelanalyst to have at their disposal
to be able to read and consume.
Whereas in the law enforcement analysisarena, you might have your cases, you
might have a records management system,but I, I just don't think there's as much
(06:00):
writing going on at police departmentsas you would find in the military.
Do you, agree with that ordo you find a differences?
Oh, I, I mean, absolutely.
You're talking from a nationalperspective, the amount of data that.
A traditional military analysthas to sort through in a day
versus your city or your county orwhere, wherever you're at, right?
(06:24):
Mm-hmm.
Wherever your focus is, you're nevergoing to be near what these national
agencies are gonna come across.
But like I said before, I feel like a lotof 'em still fall under the same category.
Mm-hmm.
Another thing that I would say translatesacross both is the intel cycle.
(06:44):
It's the same in military, and it'smm-hmm the same for law enforcement.
Critical thinking, which isheavily pushed in the military.
That's exactly whatcrime analysis is, right?
We're we're critically thinking, we'rethinking outside the box so that we can
try to figure out what's gonna happen nextbased on the information that we have,
(07:05):
and that's based on reliable sources.
Another thing is, 'cause in mycurrent position, I am an instructor
for the Defense IntelligenceAgency, where I help teach the
structured analytical techniques.
So in saying that, it easily translatedinto my law enforcement role.
So let's get into your law enforcementrole then, because as, as you
(07:28):
mentioned, you weren't sure, butthen you get a criminal intelligence
analyst role around February, 2017.
So talk, about that transition , foryou that maybe let's go back the first
couple weeks, month of the, of the job.
, What was your experience?
Well, it was a brand new unit.
(07:48):
. There were six of us thatwere hired at the same time.
We were employees of the districtattorney, but we were actually housed
with our gang and narcotic task force.
I would say that it was like drinkingfrom a fire hose, from the perspective of
learning the law enforcement terminology.
(08:09):
Mm-hmm.
But, and we were also thrown in themiddle of this huge operation, so we
immediately had to hit the ground running.
So yeah, it was quick to pick upbecause again, it goes back to that
paramilitary, but at the same time, like,I already knew what to do as an analyst.
Hmm.
And so, so what did you know how to do?
(08:31):
So because of things that I didwhen I was deployed to Iraq, mm-hmm.
Some heavy cient type operations.
When, when the task force was doingwiretaps or we were pinging phones,
I was kind of the go-to person.
. And then one of the other things was not alot of people knew about Analyst Notebook.
(08:55):
The new, the other analystdidn't know there was one
other guy that was on our team.
And he was an All sourceanalyst too, while he.
He was in the Army, hehad gotten out mm-hmm.
In as well.
So we were in the same boat, but timelinesbeing able to use analyst Notebook for
not only link analysis but timelinesand it was those things that I was
able to teach based on my experiencewith it in the Army to the analysts
(09:19):
that were new to the, the career field.
Hmm.
So was there, I mean, you mentioned theother analyst that was in the military.
Was everybody else pretty muchcivilian or sworn or were there other
former military in there as well?
No.
So his name was Baird.
So he was in the Army.
He was the only other one besides me.
. We had a gal that wasfresh out of college.
(09:44):
And then we had a seasoned.
Analyst, she had been ata, a previous pd. Mm-hmm.
And then we had an in another analystthat originally was an investigative.
Analyst and translated, or transferredover to a criminal analyst.
And then we did have a swornanalyst, but he served more
(10:07):
as the digital forensics guy.
And that was more of his role.
Okay.
So it looks like when they put this teamof six together, they got a variety of
skill sets experience to, to kind ofbe a little bit of a well-rounded unit.
Yes, definitely.
All right.
. So this brings us toyour analyst badge story.
And for those that may be new tothe show, the analyst badge story
(10:30):
is the career defining case orproject that an analyst works.
So is this operation that youreferred to Operation Scrapbook,
that is, is your story.
So tell us more about that.
Yeah, so.
Started off in 2017 and like I saidearlier thrown into this middle of this
operation and it was, it was a big deal.
(10:52):
It was about 52 subjects that wereultimately targeted the day of takedown.
It was months and months of learningthe subjects putting products together.
'cause ultimately we knew that this wouldwe were supporting the district attorneys
and eventually the state and federal.
But it was being prepared for all thepossible risks and to know our assigned.
(11:17):
Subjects the best we possibly could.
So over that time we, because ofhow many analysts there were we
ultimately were broken down into 10subjects for the day of take down.
It was very tightlipped.
We had agents from across thestate of California that came
to support because the intentwas to hit all at the same time.
(11:39):
It was quite interesting to see everythingkind of unfold as it was happening.
However, one of my teamsnotified me that this, their
subject was not at the location.
And so because I did my best to learnthe ins and out of this guy, I suspected
that he was heading to his brother's.
So I quickly let them know, likeif he's going anywhere, he's
(12:03):
going to his brother's house.
So because again, , I knew hispattern of life, I knew which.
Directions he was gonna go andwhat streets he would go down and
eventually they were able to catchhim on one of the roads that I
suggested and ultimately detained him.
Nice.
Now, as I mentioned, you startin 2017 with this, at the.
(12:24):
At the with the task force, and thenthis is also taking place in 20 20 17.
So how long was it between thetime you started to this take
down day that you're referring to?
So, oh, it was, I'd sayprobably about four months.
Okay.
(12:45):
So that's still pretty good.
As you mentioned, that you were criticallythinking you are doing your homework,
taking the skills and techniques thatyou learned from the military and within
four months making this impact mm-hmm.
To this operation because you had analternative location to this suspect.
(13:09):
Right.
And I mean, and that goes back to mytime as an analyst in the military being
overseas, that a large part of what wedid is we tar made target packets on
people, which included their patternsof life and their families and that was.
That was the, that's whatultimately made it easy.
'cause I was already familiar with it.
Sounds like a pretty good success ifit was only the one guy that wasn't
(13:32):
there when you all came knocking.
Well, out of the 52, I think theday of, I think there was five that
weren't picked up that morning.
Mm-hmm.
When I left the county during COV,I think we only had one outstanding.
So there, there were somepretty good cases there.
So, and having to testify to to calldetail records and surveillance products
(14:00):
where I put timelines together wasso valuable to the end of this case.
And making sure that everybody.
Their, their time ultimately.
All right.
So as you mentioned, you leave Marchof 2020, which is COVID, so is was
that something, we'll go into that alittle bit because that's, that's a
(14:22):
little bit of a risk leaving duringthe, the time of the pandemic.
Well, I am a single mother, andso schools were shutting down.
Okay.
And at the time when I had asked foraccommodations to telework, mm-hmm.
It, it wasn't an option.
And so I had no other choice.
Oh, that's a bummer.
(14:43):
So I loved that job.
Mm-hmm.
And I would've gone back in a heartbeat.
It had things been different for sure.
Hmm.
Yeah, no, that, that's, that's too bad.
, I think law enforcement is alittle behind the times in terms
of embracing work from home.
And I think that's, that's unfortunatebecause I, I work from home.
(15:07):
I, I know how much I can get donedata wise, analysis wise, so mm-hmm.
I know there is at least anopportunity, especially maybe even
temporarily given the circumstance.
So that's definitelyunfortunate situation for you.
Yeah.
I, I think it was a very different time.
A lot of people were, werestill trying to figure out what
(15:28):
telework looked like mm-hmm.
On an everyday basis.
It was just management didn'tsee it fit at the time.
Although we had take homelaptops that had all the bells
and whistles for us to support.
Yeah.
We were essentially on call.
Because when, because Merced Countyis such a small, rural area mm-hmm.
(15:49):
None of the agencies within thecounty had their own analysts.
And so we, as the team of six of us,served as those agencies, analysts.
And so there were plenty of timeswhere like Merced pd had their
detectives called me and asked meto help out with a homicide several
homicides or a home invasion.
(16:10):
There are things like that.
And I supported a lotof Atwater PDs cases.
One of the cases was the previousdi district attorney's son was
murdered in broad daylight.
And so.
That was, I was on call forthat so it was like mm-hmm.
The capability was there.
It was just, I think from a governmentperspective is how you allow
(16:34):
somebody to work from home full time.
So,
, That makes it even worse when youactually can demonstrate that you have
worked investigations in the middle ofthe night or at all hours of the day.
Mm-hmm.
And have shown that youhave value remotely.
Right.
Yeah.
Hmm.
All right.
So then this brings youto, to San Antonio, Texas.
(16:58):
Yes.
In San Antonio, I wasstarting my life over again.
Mm-hmm.
So, kind of from the bottom Iwas focused more on staying in
the federal system at the time.
Mm-hmm.
Given that I'm an all sourceintelligence analyst background, I
wanted to keep my security clearance.
Current.
(17:18):
Mm-hmm.
And so I took an executive assistantposition with the Space Force, mm-hmm.
As a contractor.
And then unfortunately thecontract abruptly ended mm-hmm.
A few months after I took the job.
And so I was then hired as a secretaryto a lieutenant colonel Colonel Franta.
(17:38):
He was probably the mostinfluential person that I had
encountered in quite some time.
Mm-hmm.
He was the one that pushed meto find the career field that
I actually wanted to be in.
He was like, you're avery intelligent person.
Mm-hmm.
He's like, you are so much more thanthis job.. He's like, I see it in you.
(18:02):
And so I, I did, I went home that weekendand was like, what am I passionate about?
I already knew.
I wanted to be an analyst, which is whyI started going, I went back to school
for my post post-grad certificate withUniversity of Texas, San Antonio for
their intelligence studies program.
And while I was finishing that up,the army had posted a job as an
(18:25):
investigative analyst and applied.
And interviewed and eventually gotthe job, which took me to Hawaii.
Yeah, definitely want to get into that.
I, I do want to go back tothe secretary position now.
Mm-hmm.
'cause I, I think that's animportant bit in your history
(18:46):
and I think for the listeners, this isa good example of you just kinda never
know what doors are gonna open when,if you're listening to this and maybe
you're trying to get into the field andnever struggling to get into the field.
Mm-hmm.
Just, just opportunities to get inside.
The police departmentcan, can open some doors.
(19:07):
So whether it's data entry, 91 1, operator records whatever
it may be, sometimes justgetting that foot in the door.
Even though it's not an analyst job.
And in your situation, Erica,it wasn't an analyst job, but it
definitely led you down the pathto becoming an analyst again.
Correct?
Yeah.
Like I said, if it wasn't for ColonelFranta, I don't think I would've
(19:32):
pushed myself back into the field.
So I am forever grateful for himto push me to figure out what
I wanted to be when I grew up.
Mm-hmm.
And, and continuing in that direction.
Right.
So you're this California girl thatspent a little time in Texas, and
then you go over to be surrounded bywater in the Pacific Ocean of Hawaii.
(19:54):
Yeah.
I had lived in Hawaii before,during my active duty time.
It's actually where my daughter was born.
Mm-hmm.
It was my last active duty stationed.
I was, stationed on Pearl Harbor.
So going back to my daughter's,I joke her motherland was very,
really important for her because weleft when she was about 15 months.
(20:16):
So now she's older andshe got to go back home.
Nice.
Nice.
So just, pearl Harbor for you.
I mean, obviously for those that are afterthe fact and we read about it in history
books . But we obviously hear PearlHarbor and we think of just the one thing.
So, but I guess from your perspectivethe, the Pearl Harbor as it's
(20:39):
well known versus the, the PearlHarbor that, that, you know.
Yeah.
There, well, it was right acrossthe street from the Arizona mm-hmm.
So a lot of ceremonies took place there.
The base itself is a joint base now.
It, it's joint base, Pearl Harbor,Hickum Hickum being the Air Force side
(21:00):
and Pearl Harbor being the naval side.
But yeah, it, from anintelligence perspective and
as a history major, I loved it.
Because, you know what happened?
At Pearl Harbor was an intelligencefailure which the intelligence
community eventually learnedfrom, unfortunately, the hard way.
Mm-hmm.
But as a history major,there's so much history, right?
(21:23):
Mm-hmm.
So, but when it comes to the analystrole that I played when I went
back as a civilian it was more ofan investigative analyst position
for crime prevention in the army.
This is following the VanessaGuillen case and the Fort Hood
(21:44):
findings that the Army did.
A huge report on and the expectationof what the military's gonna do
to protect its service members.
And so to be part of that was eyeopening.
Mm-hmm.
Because my other roles hadjust been reaction, right?
Mm-hmm.
A crime occurred.
(22:04):
We're investigating it where this is.
This is what do we do to getleft of the boom, so to speak.
And so from my perspective, and I foughtso hard for the people I worked with to
understand was that you have to be ableto look at the crime data, the historical
(22:25):
crime data, in order to understandwhat prevention efforts are needed.
Unfortunately I don't think theyever bought it, and so I kind
of foresaw the crumbling of theanalyst position within this role.
It was public health and I believe,I truly believe that law enforcement
and public health are a greatcombination, could do great things
(22:49):
if they believe in one another.
And in this case, they didn't seethe value in the investigative
analyst role, which is unfortunate.
So I left to go be with Army CID with.
What I thought was going to ultimatelybe promotional opportunities.
But I was there until I left Hawaii.
(23:10):
So
, As you mentioned, when you firststarted, you were one of six
for the whole entire county.
So that's a pretty big area.
So, but here in Hawaii at, atthe base, like I'm envisioning
that this is a lot smaller area.
Hawaii, the islands aren't bigthat big to begin with, but in
terms of the base, we're talkingabout a much smaller area, right?
(23:32):
Absolutely.
So the role that I played inthe prevention effort though
was for the Army Pacific.
So that included Korea and Japan and
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So so much wider of an area than a county.
Okay.
But when I moved to CID, it wasthe installation and it's not one
(23:53):
installation, it's the installations.
There's several installations.
There's smaller pockets across theisland, but yes, it is definitely in
fact smaller than even Merced County.
Alright, so multiple areas.
So you were dealing with multiple basesthen when you were doing prevention.
So yeah, that would make, that couldmake it a little bit more challenging.
(24:13):
And obviously understanding theactivity going around the base
would be very helpful I would think.
In terms of, yeah.
Of trying to predict what it is.
'cause it's usually it can beoutside threats, but in, in
certain cases, as you've mentioned,it's, it, it's an inside threat.
Yeah.
Especially when it's overseas.
(24:35):
Mm-hmm.
Not only a language barrier, but processesare different when it's off installation.
But going back to the preventionmodels it really, there are factors
in what the Army considers as harmfulbehaviors, which they were trying to
reduce, which is like domestic violence.
Mm-hmm.
(24:56):
Suicide.
There are a lot of precursors that couldbe identified, and that's why I believed.
So with all my, eh, my everythingin this program mm-hmm.
Is because the data is there.
Mm-hmm.
We just needed to learn how to use it.
And the way, the way that thegovernment would allow information
(25:19):
to be used, it, the limitation,especially with criminal data, was only
to the investigative analyst series.
And so that's where thatrole in particular was so
important in this Army program.
This may be an obvious question,but why do you think there was
so much disconnect between.
, The military law enforcement sideand the military health side.
(25:41):
Well, that's a hard one to answerbecause the people that were making the
decisions at headquarters I don't thinkthey understood the importance of it.
And when they started this program, theykind of came in with blinders and were
like, this is how we're gonna do it,because this is the way CDC does it.
Mm-hmm.
But a military community is very differentthan a traditional city state, anything.
(26:08):
Right.
Your, your population is transient.
Right.
Every three years, soldiersand their families move.
Mm-hmm.
Which causes a lot of factorsthat make it difficult to.
Track people and monitor their behaviors.
But that's why I kept pushing, likeif we just had this one database
that filtered in everything, then Iof course in a perfect world, right?
(26:34):
Mm-hmm.
This would make this process of Iidentifying precursors to harmful
behaviors for the prevention efforts,which would ultimately lead to specific
training that soldiers and their families.
Might need to reduce ultimatecrime and harmful behaviors.
(26:54):
Hmm.
Yeah.
There is a lot to that.
That's probably an episode in itself
It's gonna actually bemy dissertation, so.
Oh, okay.
I can talk about it all day.
Yeah.
All, well, okay.
Well, let me think about it.
We'll come back to that when,during the pH d section.
You mentioned yesterday.
In our prep call that there was asituation where you were the only
(27:21):
non-doctor in a room full of doctors.
Yes.
When I was working in the preventionspace, everybody that I worked with in
this space was a doctor of public health.
And so it talk about awkward when you arethe only person that's not a doctor and
you're introducing yourself to the team.
(27:42):
And it's doctor, doctor, doctor.
And then I'm like, hi,just Erica, no doctor.
Which is what kind of pushed me.
In the direction of pursuing my PhD.
Just, just Erica, huh?
Yeah, just Erica.
Yeah.
And that man.
And that could be intimidating, you'realready in a situation when you, I
(28:03):
think back during my time as an analystor I've witnessed other analysts.
You come in as a civilianand you're in there.
You might be in a comstat meetingor you might be in, a round
table with the chief, right?
And you're, you're sitting thereat the table there and you're
looking across to all these years ofexperience and maybe certifications
(28:25):
and, and ranks, and then they'reyou part of the conversation, right?
You're, you have literally havea seat at the table, right?
Right.
You're there to talk,
right?
Yeah.
I. Not only being the only analyst inthis room full of doctors, but yeah.
Being the only one that wasn't a doctor,I feel not to be down a peg in the
(28:47):
sense that I didn't feel quite as heard.
And if I was a doctor, wouldI have been better heard?
Hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah., That's an interesting situation' credentialing matters to some folks.
Right, right.
And, but a good idea is a good idea.
Right.
So, alright.
(29:07):
As you mentioned, went on to CID there inHawaii, and this brings us to your second
analyst badge story, and this is dealingwith a potential auto theft problem.
Yeah.
So last year while I was with CID,we had a temporary special agent
in charge come in from Georgia oneof the installations in Georgia.
(29:29):
And when he got there as any good personin charge is reading up on the blotter
all the reports coming in daily and he'slike, we've got an auto theft problem.
There was two the other dayand there's two more today.
I'm like, no, there, there's not.
That's, it's just howit is in Hawaii, right?
(29:50):
It's not like, it's not alwayswhat the postcard looks like.
And so he wanted the data and soI was able to pull the data from
alerts, which is the Army's arm.
Mm-hmm.
And.
Pulled the data, cleaned it,and started to realize, yeah,
there's, there's not a problem.
And what I ended up doing with the datawas I did a comparison to on installation
(30:15):
and off installation per capita.
And what happened was it wasastronomical off installation.
I wanna say it was like 53 to every1000 off installation and like 0.1
something to per thousand on installation.
So it was like, yeah, there'snot an auto theft problem.
(30:36):
Especially when you're comparingyourself to off installation.
Literally a fence between you, right?
Mm-hmm.
And so, but being an analyst, Istarted to look at the qualitative
data and notice that what I wasseeing was more property thefts.
And when I was reading more and morethrough this is mps were annotating that
(31:00):
there were breaches in the perimeter ofthe installation and they were all walking
distance when I plotted them all walkingdistance from these perimeter breaches
to where property theft was occurring.
So from that I was able to producea product and present that to
the special agent in charge.
(31:20):
And he was like, oh, this is a problem.
This is a security problemon an installation.
Right?
And so he wanted me to send itup to kind of a funny story.
He said, installation commander.
And what did I do?
, I sent it to the Commanding General.
And so he calls me and he's like,are you drinking buddies with him?
(31:42):
And I was like, no.
He was like, I said, installationcommander, not commanding general.
I'm like oops.
Well, he got it and he liked it.
So
That's a fortunate mistake, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was one of the lastprojects though that I worked
on when I was with CID.
I'm very proud of it though becauseit highlighted, I mean, being in the
(32:06):
Pacific in general is a high threatarea from an intelligence perspective.
But to show that unfortunatelynow our installation is at risk.
So hopefully they did.
So were the, the auto thefts beingmiscategorized or you discovered
the security breach when you wereanalyzing, looking after the auto thefts?
(32:31):
Kind of both.
Okay.
That is definitely, definitely thingthat the MP Corps acknowledges.
Mm-hmm.
You've got brand new privates.
Putting in reports less than six months inthe Army to senior people that are writing
reports and just human error, right?
Mm-hmm.
So it, it, as tedious as it was,I did start to go through certain
(32:57):
categories of the crime categories.
And so that was what, when I was goingthrough that and reading through the
reports is when I was like, okay,not only there miscategorized, but.
This is what actually is the problem.
Mm-hmm.
And give me an idea from the fencethat you were talking about being
(33:21):
accessed to like the civilian property.
Like is, is it just like right acrossthe street is like an apartment
complex or is there, is it prettyfar from the fence to civilian world?
Yeah, so depends on the insulation.
Mm-hmm.
But Scofield Barracks, literallythere's a shopping area.
(33:43):
I won't even, it's not evenreally a shopping area.
It's like a bar and a coupleof restaurants across the
street, tattoo parlor.
And.
But yes, there are apartmentsand they are low income.
It's kind of a rough area.
There's also an area near theinstallation property that a lot
of the homeless encampments are.
(34:05):
So that was one of thethings that the mps were.
Kind of responsible to do wasclear the homeless population
off the federal property.
Unfortunately you have to send out hazmatcrews and stuff like that when you move
homeless populations from their areas.
(34:27):
Hi, I'm Kyle Stoker and I'm encouragingyou to vote in the I-A-C-A-A elections.
So make sure you go to the IACAwebsite and vote because our
membership has a voice in who leadsthe organization and you wanna
make sure that your voice is heard.
Thank you very much.
Hello, this is Joshua Todd, USBorder Patrol, Buffalo Sector
Intelligence at Wellsey Island Station.
(34:48):
And I'd like you to remember thatnumbers on the page are reflective
of the humans that we serve.
We've had a recent report of an overdosein the county and we discussed it
at a local meeting, and then laterthat day I went to the barber, we
got a haircut, and the woman was.
Visibly distraught and we got to chattingand it was actually her son that overdosed
and, and passed away that, that last week.
(35:09):
So, uh, while we do a lot ofreports and they are numbers on the
spreadsheet, they end up, uh, reflectingthe, the humans that we do serve.
Well, as you mentioned, you end upmoving moving on from Hawaii, you go
to dc but I thought it was interestingwhen I talked to you yesterday in
(35:30):
the prep call I asked you to, if youmissed Hawaii, and your answer is
no.
Absolutely not.
My, my pocketbook.
So they say likes it more here in DC Yeah.
Oh man, that, that is funny.
(35:50):
I,
everybody's always shocked, like, really?
You don't miss Hawaii?
And it's like, go live there.
The B 52 bombers, AKA,they're cockroaches that fly.
Yeah.
Not fun.
Oh, man.
Paradise isn't whatit's thought to be, huh?
Yeah, exactly.
They don't show those in the postcards.
(36:11):
Oh, man.
All right.
So, but d dc has its own, hasits own character in itself.
Yes.
So let's get into that a little bit.
How's, how was that transition?
What are, what are you up to in dc?
So I left Hawaii for a position as aninstructor with the Defense Intelligence
(36:34):
Agency, which is where I'm currently at.
Mm-hmm.
What I do is I'm part of anine week long program where
I teach our foreign partners.
The US intelligence process, so, okay.
We have in the basic intelligence analystcourse we have, it's called Nick, which
(36:58):
is the national intelligence capabilities.
And then we have the final course,which was my primary course.
It was a one week as part of this wholenine week course program was Intel
support to multinational operations.
I will say I've had such a great timewith some really amazing students,
(37:23):
amazing coworkers as well, but towork with our foreign partners and
get their perspective of not just.
Intel.
Mm-hmm.
But our way of life compared to theirs.
So I've really enjoyed it.
Yeah.
So are, are most of theseEnglish speaking students?
(37:44):
Yes.
So they have to test to acertain English competency score.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of 'em do speakvery, very good English.
Mm-hmm.
There's been one or two thatthey're quiet and struggle a little
bit because their English does.
Isn't what I think was expected to.
(38:05):
Okay.
Hmm.
But that's gotta be a fascinatingdiscussion is your classroom diverse
in that the students are spread outall over from different countries?
Or are you basically teachingmaybe one group that's all from
the same country at a time?
No, so it's.
(38:26):
It's always several different countries.
Mm-hmm.
And what was really interestingwas the group of students that
came in during the election.
Mm. That was really interesting toget their perspective as somebody
that's not an American and mm-hmm.
And then of course outside the classroomwe would have socials and stuff.
(38:49):
And so during those times is whenwe got a little bit more ourselves
instead of instructor personality.
And they would ask like,what is your honest opinion?
And it's like, well I don't speakfor the arrest the rest of America.
Right.
And that's great thingabout being an American.
You, we all have our differentviews and perspective.
(39:10):
Right.
Wrong or indifferent.
But you know what they thoughtall Americans were, they.
To see me as an American and say,oh, you guys aren't all the same.
You aren't some, you'renot some arrogant prick.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
, I think I would really enjoy thatrole because I would love to just
(39:35):
listen to their stories and theirperspectives and hear their backstory.
Also get into what, what they think.
And just as you mentioned, like,this is what they think of America
is, or this is what this is howthey would define it or articulate.
Exactly.
Yep.
Huh.
Yeah.
And to have a different, like from allover the, the world be like that over
(40:00):
nine weeks and to have socials Right.
To kinda get outta the classroom andlet let your hair down, so to speak.
Yeah,
exactly.
Yep.
It was, I mean, we had Asian students,we had we had African students.
Mm-hmm.
Lots of European students.
We have quite a few MiddleEastern students that came in.
(40:22):
But yeah, a very different perspective.
And being the only female instructorit was interesting for me because.
Some cultures in countries, youdon't directly talk to women.
And so my, my coworkers had tosay that while you're in America,
(40:43):
you act as an American and youwill respect her, just like you
respect me and you can talk to her.
She's just anotherperson in the classroom.
And so it was never an issue.
Just different customs, differentperspectives, different values.
Yeah.
Yep.
So, yeah.
Interesting.
(41:04):
All right then let's move on then.
Let's get into someadvice for our listeners.
So that could be new analyst, experiencedanalyst maybe a return on investment,
something they could study now thatmight be important five years from now.
What do you got for our listeners?
I would say advice for someonelooking to enter the profession.
(41:27):
I would say there's alot of ways to get in.
Mm-hmm.
During the prep call you and Ikind of talked about it sometimes
it's who you know or if you'rewithin an agency, and sometimes it
requires a criminal justice degree.
Mm-hmm.
One thing I would say, especially tostudents or people with a criminal
justice degree that are interestedin the crime analysis field is join.
(41:51):
The associations, whether it beIACA or IALEIA as a student, and
start making connections that way.
One of the things that I did when Istarted with Merced County is I was paying
you for my own training because mm-hmm.
I wanted to improve me.
So start where you are.
Don't wait until you actuallyland a job to learn skills.
(42:12):
Use free data sets to sharpenyour, especially Excel.
I know.
That's where my bread and butter is.
And, but we're, a lot of usare transitioning to like Power
BI and Tableau and Python.
So that would be another thing thatI would recommend that they get into.
But definitely connections.
Even your local chapter ofsome of the crime analysts.
(42:35):
Build your network for sure.
And be curious.
The best analysts that I know are theones are not actually the ones with the
fanciest tools are the ones that kind ofhad to make it work with what they had.
Mm-hmm.
And remember, your work has to be done is.
Has to be done to be understoodbecause communication in the
(42:55):
analyst role is so important.
As far as a more focused response to yourquestion would be to fellow veterans.
So for this, I would say veteranswith service connected PTSD which
(43:16):
I've experienced firsthand, I wantto be up front with other veterans
who are considering this field.
Some police departments do hesitate,not always for fair reasons, but they
often have some concerns equating itto instability or assuming you can't
handle stressful material or situations.
(43:39):
Agencies may worry about security orconfidentiality, but unfortunately
there is still a stigma just ingeneral, but also in policing where
PTSD is kind of seen as a weakness.
The hiring process can be veryinvasive depending on the agencies.
Not just a regular fullbackground, but medical exams and
(44:00):
release of record, psychologicalevaluations, and even polygraphs.
Those steps can make agencies cautious.
If they think a diagnosismight raise questions.
But here's what I want other veteransto hear clearly, is that PTSD does
not define your ability to succeed.
(44:21):
Many of us manage it effectively,perform at a high level.
In my own case, I've proven that throughyears of service earning multiple degrees
in certifications, and now with me in mypursuit of my PhD in criminal justice and
criminology the discipline and resilience.
And problem solving skills that veteransprovide and bring to a table are
(44:44):
exactly what makes a strong analyst.
So if you're a veteran, thinkingabout this career field, don't
let the stigma discourage you.
Be open about your strengths, highlightyour ability to perform under pressure,
and know that federal laws protect youfrom discrim, from discrimination as long
as you can perform your essential duties.
(45:05):
This profession needs voicesand skills like yours.
Hmm.
So the, so I'm assuming that there's a,there's a rating system for PTSD, right?
And is this, is this something thatyou received from the military?
No.
Through the Veterans Affairs.
Mm-hmm.
So when I separated, Itook a medical retirement.
(45:27):
Mm-hmm.
And I, I don't know what theexact science is behind ratings.
I don't think anybody knows.
I don't think the VA actually knows.
But
just gave you a number.
Yeah.
It's like they throw a dart andwhatever you got is what you got.
But they take all your medicalrecords and they evaluate it.
Evaluate it, and see if there's any thingsthat have occurred to you during your
(45:51):
service that may have a lifelong impact.
And so like I said, for me I gotinjured during basic training.
So I have some feet, ankle issues.
And, but.
Most importantly is my two combat tours.
One during the surge where Iwas in Iraq, in the heart of
(46:11):
Baghdad for what, 15 months.
And that was a really bad timeto be there, obviously, except
for, the initial invasion, butthere was, it was very traumatic.
So some of us well, all of us that go to acombat zone, we don't come back the same.
Mm-hmm.
And that doesn't make you weak,but it makes you different.
(46:32):
So,
yeah.
I mean, I think it's hard too because,I mean, when you, you don't get a
job just normally, they don't tellyou why you didn't get the job, let
alone if, as you mentioned, therewas concerns about your PDSD rating.
Yes.
It was brought to my attention that arecent position that I had gone through
(46:57):
all the bells and whistles for at theend of it was there was two concerns.
One was.
My PTSD and the other was my jobs,how many jobs I've had, mm-hmm.
Which talking to a VA counselor, they'relike this is totally normal veterans.
You, you want, when you're aveteran, you've served and when
(47:21):
you get into the civilian sector,you wanna continue serving.
And so you're always like trying tofind that job that one fulfills you,
but also makes you feel like you'reproviding a service back, right?
Mm-hmm.
And so none of my, as I've transitionedthrough my careers, none of them were.
Negative, they were all inpursuit of promotion and growing.
(47:44):
Mm-hmm.
But they knew that when I interviewedbecause they had my resume.
So in saying that, thatas an analyst, right?
Stomp, stomp made me draw tothe conclusion that before the
interview and before they offeredme anything, they didn't know
about my PTSD and the fact that it.
Was mentioned that maybe this wouldbe a concern to leadership makes
(48:06):
me believe that that's what it was.
Ah, but because of legal reasons,of course, when I asked the
agency like, can you let me know?
And of course I wanna knowso that I can grow, right?
Mm-hmm.
I wanna know so that Icould fix it if possible.
. But they were absolutelyinsistent that they could not.
And would not tell me.
(48:27):
Why that decision was made.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's tough.
That is tough.
'cause you, you're right, I thinkmost people, I'm like, okay,
what do I need to improve in on?
How do I get the next job at the, duringthe next hiring process that I'm in?
And you, you want that feedbackjust as you mentioned to grow.
(48:48):
Right.
I understand that people get,departments get sued all the time and
it's a CYA situation, but from, fromyour point of view or from anybody's
point of view, what do I need to do?
Or what do I need to improve onbecause I, I'm willing to do it.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, alright, well let's talk aboutyour PhD. Now as you mentioned that
(49:12):
and I laughed when you said in thebeginning when you were talking about
you as a young adult, you didn't thinkcollege education was in your future.
And then so you went to the military andhere you're on like your fifth degree
getting your PhD, which kudos to you.
That's a, this is a gettinga PhD is quite an endeavor.
(49:36):
Yeah.
Maturity that's just not therewhen you're 18, 19 years old.
Yeah.
You're still living with your parents.
But after some growing up in the Armyit was free while I was in, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I took advantage of that and Ihad some amazing leaders while I was
in that supported attending college.
(49:57):
So I did and part of the allsource analyst training in the
Army, you can basically buycollege credits that translate to
what those courses are, mm-hmm.
Because all source analysts go toschool for an extended period of time
and each course aligned with a coursethat this university had offered.
(50:19):
And so all I pretty much needed to dowas my general ed and I knocked that out.
Got my associates beforeI. Left active duty.
And then the time between when Ileft active duty to, when I started
working with Merced County, I hadactually started my bachelor's.
(50:40):
That's when I started touse my post nine 11 GI Bill.
And I pumped out my degree ina ridiculous amount of time.
Like I was taking likeeight courses a semester.
Oh, I had no life.
So I wasn't, I wasn't workingother than my reserve duties.
So yeah, life was school and so I got mybachelor's and was like, okay, I'm done.
(51:05):
I'm gonna focus on my career as an.
As an analyst with the county.
And that's what I did for a while.
But when COVID happened during that break,I decided, why not go back to school?
Let's work on your master's.
So that's when I went back for mymaster's finished that in a year
and then was like, okay, I'm done.
(51:27):
And then that's when the conversationI had with Colonel Franta that.
Pushed me in the direction of goingback to school with University of Texas
San Antonio for their intelligencestudies program and ultimately led me
getting back into the, the career field.
And as we discussed earlier, being theonly person, not a doctor in the room
(51:48):
was what pushed me towards working on myPhD in criminal justice and criminology.
'cause that's what I love.
Wow.
So you mentioned that earlier, that you'restudying both health and criminology.
So what is your thesis going to be on?
So it's a spin on the Army'sprogram, the integrated prevention.
(52:12):
Advisory group is what it'scalled, I iPad for short.
The intent behind it is takinga public health model and like
establishing crime prevention efforts.
I don't wanna say crime 'cause someof the things aren't crime, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like suicide but harmfulbehavior prevention, right?
And so, mm-hmm.
I, there's so many studies of it nowversus like a couple years ago when
(52:36):
I was in this field that that showthe partnership where law enforcement
seek public health to partnertogether to combat crime mm-hmm.
And protect the community and crimeprevention efforts and yada, yada, yada.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
I just feel like it's kind of thereverse in the army right now as they're.
(52:59):
Kind of building the plane as itflies, so to speak where they're
creating this program from a publichealth perspective, trying to prevent
crime and harmful behaviors, butnot seeing the value in crime data.
Mm-hmm.
So that's what I wanna look atis the success of law enforcement
(53:20):
and public health mm-hmm.
In the communities, the successstories that could possibly be
implemented in the Army communities.
Yeah.
So are you.
Specifically going tostudy in the military?
This in the military environment?
Well, so after talking tosome of my professors mm-hmm.
(53:41):
It's more of a study of thesuccess behind law enforcement
partnering with public health.
Mm-hmm.
But taking those success stories.
And how it could be implemented mm-hmm.
In the military communities.
So it's not a focus specifically on themilitary communities, but rather the
(54:01):
the civilian, the law enforcement aspectof it and communities across the us.
Taking those success stories and applyingthem into the military communities.
I see.
Does that make sense?
It does.
Okay.
It
does.
No.
And so when oh, you're expect, Isee on your resume expected 2027.
So you got a couple years yet?
Yes.
(54:22):
I've got three more courses to finish.
Like traditional classes.
And then the rest of the classesthrough 2027, anticipated 2027 is
working on my actual dissertation.
All right.
Well, good luck on that.
I oh, I, I, I told you yesterday, I, I, Igot a master's degree, but man, I do not
(54:47):
want to read another textbook ever again.
And I am not a reader.
I do not like to read.
So I, I am a li I'm actually a littlebit jealous of people that go on
to get their PhD 'cause I know it'sso much work that you have to do.
So it's quite an accomplishment.
Well with today's technology, Iwill say digital textbooks and a
(55:12):
lot of it can be converted to audio.
And so mm-hmm.
Because I'm more of an audio learner.
I can listen to the audio book of things.
Mm-hmm.
Or even if I am reading a researchstudy, I can just, there's an app that
I use that just reads it to me and so Ican absorb it that way without actually
(55:34):
sitting down and physically reading it.
So that's what I do.
It's kind of a cheat, but
I dunno.
I think that's what my son doesthough too, so I don't, I never see
him actually reading, but he tellsme he, he reads, so I think he does
listen to the books on tape, so.
All right.
(55:54):
Well, hey as I said,that's awesome though.
That's a, that's a great endeavor.
So I'm looking forwardto hearing your results.
Thank you.
Let's go on to some volunteeropportunities that you're.
Are into skull Games.
You volunteer for Skull Games?
Yes, I do.
I recommend it to anybody outthere that might be interested.
(56:16):
I got introduced to it whileI was working with Army CID.
The team that I specificallyworked with was Sex Crimes.
And so what Skull Games does, ifyou're not familiar, is they work
with law enforcement partners and theyhelp identify victims and traffickers
so that the police can run with it.
(56:37):
It's all publicly available information.
But it's, it's quite an eventwhen you can participate and
did one operation in Hawaii.
With Kelly, she's the representa representative out in Hawaii.
She's awesome, but if.
I would definitely recommend it.
It's osint heavy, obviously, withpublicly available information and
(56:59):
it's for a good cause, and identifyingvictims and helping them get.
The justice that they deserve.
So is it ongoing or is ita specific period of time?
No, it's ongoing.
So once you become a member, thereare actual cases that you can work.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's ongoing, but they do havespecific events where they will have
(57:23):
people in person come together with a lawenforcement agency and they'll do a game.
And then they'll even have peoplevirtually help support that
operation to identify and findall the information needed to
identify the victim and trafficker.
Right.
Very cool.
Yeah.
We'll put a link in the shownotes for additional information
(57:43):
for those that may be interested.
Anything you volunteered for?
We volunteered together.
We were recently part of A-I-A-C-Aworking group looking to improve
the elections and ethics.
Process, and I can just hear thegroans and moans in the audience right
now that many of those that may besick of hearing about IACA issues.
(58:06):
But we went through that together.
So I just wanted to give you amoment and, talk about the, the
working group and your perspective.
I think it was a good opportunityto get involved to try to fix or
help advise the board on adjustmentsthat might need to be made.
I will say it was a very, veryshort period of time with everybody
(58:30):
working their full-time jobs andvolunteering to do this on the
side, it, there was a, a lot to do.
Mm-hmm.
It was very time consuming.
But I think at the end of the day,those of us that stuck through the
whole thing did the best we couldwith the limited time we were allowed.
But I definitely thinkit was for a good cause.
(58:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we only had eight weeks.
I mean, and that's, and those are two.
Meaty issues.
Right?
Like you yes.
You easily could have spent sixmonths probably on each, and
that's with meeting every Friday.
Right.
So it is tough.
And there was a, a lot of goodconversation I thought, going on.
(59:14):
But yeah, we just I think most peoplewould, are, are feeling that we needed
more time and we're not, we're notnecessarily sure where this is going.
Are the recommendations going to beimplemented or what's the next steps?
Yeah, I, I'm hoping that thisis a first step to mm-hmm.
Making the association better.
It's not perfect.
We all know that.
(59:35):
But we can definitely make theefforts to try to make it better.
Mm-hmm.
And I think doing that is having workinggroups to look at ways to improve them.
All right.
Well, very good., I don't knowwhy I just thought about this.
This is just, this is a really randomquestion that has nothing to do with
what we were just talking about, warnyou is your, how old is your daughter?
(59:58):
Is your daughter graduated?
Does she stay in Hawaii?
Is she with you in dc?
Oh Lord.
No, she just turned 11.
Okay.
She just started the sixth grade, so no.
Okay.
She, she is well traveled.
I, I see with everywhere we've been,but yeah, no, i've got a few more years
before I can boot her out to college.
I see.
I see.
But she's in DC I see.
(01:00:18):
I lived in Baltimore before I had kids.
And so we would have family and friendscome down to visit us in Baltimore, and
we would spend a day in Baltimore, andthen we'd spend the day down in DC mm-hmm.
And going to the monuments writingthe metro and, and on all of that.
And I, I know I didn'tappreciate it until I had kids.
(01:00:43):
And then I'm like, there's beenseveral times it's like, oh, I wish
I wish DC was just a an hour driveaway to get to go take the kids.
We've taken the kids there once, but Idefinitely miss it being just right there.
Yeah.
We actually live in Alexandria, so mm-hmm.
Right next to a metro stop,so it's an easy into the city.
(01:01:03):
I love it.
She.
Is not interested in history.
Must stick after her dad.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm like, how is she my child?
But yeah, I, I mean, I love it.
And then we actually just had thisconversation last night and she's
like, but there's nothing to do.
And I was like.
We're in the nation's capital.
(01:01:24):
What do you mean there's nothing to do?
She's like, it's all boringold people stuff and history.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, no.
Like we can go to a Nets game.
It's literally like a handful ofstops down the road, you know?
And Yeah, kid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh man.
Yeah, that's probably exactlyhow it would've been with my
(01:01:44):
kids had we stayed in Baltimore.
Oh man.
But, all right.
Very good.
Our last segment to this show,Erica, is Words to the World.
This is where you can promoteany idea that you wish one
or your words to the world.
One thing I would hope thatpeople take away from this
conversation, it's that analysis.
(01:02:04):
Is never just about thedata it's about the people.
Every chart, every report, everyproduct that we create connects back to
someone's safety and someone's future.
I've carried that perspective with mefrom the army to law enforcement and now
into the research as I pursue my PhD.And it's the same perspective I bring
(01:02:28):
as a mom because at the end of the day,we're all trying to build something
safer and better for the next generation.
So my message is keep learning, keepasking questions, keep serving in
whatever way you can, and that'show we move our communities forward.
Very good.
Wiley, every guest with, you've given mejust enough to talk bad about you later.
(01:02:48):
Sounds good.
But I do appreciate youbeing on the show, Erica.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And you be safe.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Thank you for making it tothe end of another episode of
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
You can show your support by sharingthis and other episodes found
on our website@www.podcasts.com.
(01:03:09):
If you have a topic you would likeus to cover or have a suggestion for
our next guest, please send us anemail at Elliot podcasts@gmail.com.
Till next time, analysts, keep talking.
Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
(00:01):
It's like coffee with an analyst,or it could be whiskey with an
analyst reading a spreadsheet,linking crime events, identifying a
series, and getting the latest scoopon association news and training.
So please don't beat that analystand join us as we define the law
enforcement analysis profession.
One episode at a time.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope many aspects ofyour life are progressing.
My name is Jason Elder, and todayour guest has six years of law
(00:25):
enforcement analysis experiencewith 20 years of military and law
enforcement experience overall.
She has a bachelor's in history.
She's a certified crimeand intelligence analyst.
She's got her master's in history and apost certificate in intelligence studies.
And because that's not enough,she's currently studying her PhD in
(00:49):
criminology from Kaiser University.
She was a supervisor, all sourceintelligence analyst with the US Army
Reserve here to talk about, among otherthings, veterans in the job market.
Please welcome Erica Logan.
Erica, how we doing?
I'm
well.
How about yourself, Jason?
I am doing very well.
(01:09):
It's great to hear from you.
It's great to talk to youyesterday during the prep call.
It's funny, we were in talks todo a project last year together
on education and training.
It never formulated.
I was like, oh, , I didn't have you onthe podcast, but since we were talking so
much last year, it felt in my head thatI had already had you on the podcast.
(01:33):
But here we are.
Yeah.
That's something I feel likemaybe we should look at again.
Let's revisit that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's an interesting topic.
I always like to talk about educationand training and law enforcement
analysis and it's a, it's a big part ofwhy analysts network and try to grow.
Exactly.
Alright, well let's startfrom the beginning though.
(01:54):
How did you discover the lawenforcement analysis profession?
Well, I had been active dutyArmy as an intelligence analyst.
And I actually got out in 2015 joined thereserves from active duty and I went home
to my small town of Merced, California.
And unfortunately I knew that I wouldn'tbe able to use my analyst skills in
(02:15):
that area until about 2017 when I cameacross a job for criminal information
analyst position with the MercedCounty District Attorney's office.
Of course, I applied and interviewedand eventually got the job and
that's when I realized I couldtake my military analytical skills.
To law enforcement andbuild a career around that.
(02:38):
I'm curious to go back a little bitfarther about your decision to go
into the military in the first place.
A as you were thinking back, , whatwere your goals and aims back then?
Well, I was of that generationthat was impacted by nine 11.
So when I graduated high school,I knew that school wasn't
(02:58):
the thing for me at the time.
And my next door neighbor actually wasa recruiter, so he got me got me in
and he got me into a really good job.
So I, I do definitely appreciatehim for that 'cause I could have
easily gotten a really terrible job.
But at the end I selectedan Intel analyst.
And so from 2005 until.
(03:21):
2015, I was an all sourceintelligence analyst.
Huh.
And so go into that a little bit.
All source analyst.
In terms of the military, I guessit sounds like it's everything,
but I'm sure there's limitationsto what you were studying.
Well, I, I definitely think theintelligence fields that make up
(03:44):
all sorts such as human, which.
Cient those are kind of the, themajor ones that translate over
to law enforcement, but mm-hmm.
When you think of human, it wasyour undercover guys, right?
Or mm-hmm.
Your informants.
Those are the human aspect of it.
Cient I always think of, like, if you'redoing pens and pings on cell tower
(04:06):
analysis, those types of things fit moreinto what would be traditional cient.
Mm-hmm.
So my role as an all source analystwas taking, and there's a plethora
of different ints as we call'em in the Intel community is.
Taking all that information that isout there and deriving an all source
(04:27):
analyst product, which is taking all thatinformation and create, creating into one.
Hmm.
And so, so then I guess talk about yourtransition then, as you were, as you
mentioned, you weren't sure how yourskills would translate, but looking back
on it now, how did the, the militaryprepare you for the, for the analyst job?
(04:52):
Well, I definitely thinkit is the discipline.
Mm-hmm.
And having some bearing, it's lawenforcement, I, I hate kinda just to
say it, but it's paramilitary, right.
It's very structured.
Mm-hmm.
Very rigid just like the military is.
And so it was a very.
It was an easier step into thecivilian sector, mm-hmm For me to
(05:13):
be going from active duty soldierto a civilian in the workforce,
but working for law enforcement.
Mm-hmm.
So I often say on this show that Ithink with the military, for those
that transfer from the military.
To law enforcement analysis that there'sa big difference I feel, in terms of
(05:37):
data that I feel that in the militarythere's so much more documentation,
so many written reports for an Intelanalyst to have at their disposal
to be able to read and consume.
Whereas in the law enforcement analysisarena, you might have your cases, you
might have a records management system,but I, I just don't think there's as much
(06:00):
writing going on at police departmentsas you would find in the military.
Do you, agree with that ordo you find a differences?
Oh, I, I mean, absolutely.
You're talking from a nationalperspective, the amount of data that.
A traditional military analysthas to sort through in a day
versus your city or your county orwhere, wherever you're at, right?
(06:24):
Mm-hmm.
Wherever your focus is, you're nevergoing to be near what these national
agencies are gonna come across.
But like I said before, I feel like a lotof 'em still fall under the same category.
Mm-hmm.
Another thing that I would say translatesacross both is the intel cycle.
(06:44):
It's the same in military, and it'smm-hmm the same for law enforcement.
Critical thinking, which isheavily pushed in the military.
That's exactly whatcrime analysis is, right?
We're we're critically thinking, we'rethinking outside the box so that we can
try to figure out what's gonna happen nextbased on the information that we have,
(07:05):
and that's based on reliable sources.
Another thing is, 'cause in mycurrent position, I am an instructor
for the Defense IntelligenceAgency, where I help teach the
structured analytical techniques.
So in saying that, it easily translatedinto my law enforcement role.
So let's get into your law enforcementrole then, because as, as you
(07:28):
mentioned, you weren't sure, butthen you get a criminal intelligence
analyst role around February, 2017.
So talk, about that transition , foryou that maybe let's go back the first
couple weeks, month of the, of the job.
, What was your experience?
Well, it was a brand new unit.
(07:48):
. There were six of us thatwere hired at the same time.
We were employees of the districtattorney, but we were actually housed
with our gang and narcotic task force.
I would say that it was like drinkingfrom a fire hose, from the perspective of
learning the law enforcement terminology.
(08:09):
Mm-hmm.
But, and we were also thrown in themiddle of this huge operation, so we
immediately had to hit the ground running.
So yeah, it was quick to pick upbecause again, it goes back to that
paramilitary, but at the same time, like,I already knew what to do as an analyst.
Hmm.
And so, so what did you know how to do?
(08:31):
So because of things that I didwhen I was deployed to Iraq, mm-hmm.
Some heavy cient type operations.
When, when the task force was doingwiretaps or we were pinging phones,
I was kind of the go-to person.
. And then one of the other things was not alot of people knew about Analyst Notebook.
(08:55):
The new, the other analystdidn't know there was one
other guy that was on our team.
And he was an All sourceanalyst too, while he.
He was in the Army, hehad gotten out mm-hmm.
In as well.
So we were in the same boat, but timelinesbeing able to use analyst Notebook for
not only link analysis but timelinesand it was those things that I was
able to teach based on my experiencewith it in the Army to the analysts
(09:19):
that were new to the, the career field.
Hmm.
So was there, I mean, you mentioned theother analyst that was in the military.
Was everybody else pretty muchcivilian or sworn or were there other
former military in there as well?
No.
So his name was Baird.
So he was in the Army.
He was the only other one besides me.
. We had a gal that wasfresh out of college.
(09:44):
And then we had a seasoned.
Analyst, she had been ata, a previous pd. Mm-hmm.
And then we had an in another analystthat originally was an investigative.
Analyst and translated, or transferredover to a criminal analyst.
And then we did have a swornanalyst, but he served more
(10:07):
as the digital forensics guy.
And that was more of his role.
Okay.
So it looks like when they put this teamof six together, they got a variety of
skill sets experience to, to kind ofbe a little bit of a well-rounded unit.
Yes, definitely.
All right.
. So this brings us toyour analyst badge story.
And for those that may be new tothe show, the analyst badge story
(10:30):
is the career defining case orproject that an analyst works.
So is this operation that youreferred to Operation Scrapbook,
that is, is your story.
So tell us more about that.
Yeah, so.
Started off in 2017 and like I saidearlier thrown into this middle of this
operation and it was, it was a big deal.
(10:52):
It was about 52 subjects that wereultimately targeted the day of takedown.
It was months and months of learningthe subjects putting products together.
'cause ultimately we knew that this wouldwe were supporting the district attorneys
and eventually the state and federal.
But it was being prepared for all thepossible risks and to know our assigned.
(11:17):
Subjects the best we possibly could.
So over that time we, because ofhow many analysts there were we
ultimately were broken down into 10subjects for the day of take down.
It was very tightlipped.
We had agents from across thestate of California that came
to support because the intentwas to hit all at the same time.
(11:39):
It was quite interesting to see everythingkind of unfold as it was happening.
However, one of my teamsnotified me that this, their
subject was not at the location.
And so because I did my best to learnthe ins and out of this guy, I suspected
that he was heading to his brother's.
So I quickly let them know, likeif he's going anywhere, he's
(12:03):
going to his brother's house.
So because again, , I knew hispattern of life, I knew which.
Directions he was gonna go andwhat streets he would go down and
eventually they were able to catchhim on one of the roads that I
suggested and ultimately detained him.
Nice.
Now, as I mentioned, you startin 2017 with this, at the.
(12:24):
At the with the task force, and thenthis is also taking place in 20 20 17.
So how long was it between thetime you started to this take
down day that you're referring to?
So, oh, it was, I'd sayprobably about four months.
Okay.
(12:45):
So that's still pretty good.
As you mentioned, that you were criticallythinking you are doing your homework,
taking the skills and techniques thatyou learned from the military and within
four months making this impact mm-hmm.
To this operation because you had analternative location to this suspect.
(13:09):
Right.
And I mean, and that goes back to mytime as an analyst in the military being
overseas, that a large part of what wedid is we tar made target packets on
people, which included their patternsof life and their families and that was.
That was the, that's whatultimately made it easy.
'cause I was already familiar with it.
Sounds like a pretty good success ifit was only the one guy that wasn't
(13:32):
there when you all came knocking.
Well, out of the 52, I think theday of, I think there was five that
weren't picked up that morning.
Mm-hmm.
When I left the county during COV,I think we only had one outstanding.
So there, there were somepretty good cases there.
So, and having to testify to to calldetail records and surveillance products
(14:00):
where I put timelines together wasso valuable to the end of this case.
And making sure that everybody.
Their, their time ultimately.
All right.
So as you mentioned, you leave Marchof 2020, which is COVID, so is was
that something, we'll go into that alittle bit because that's, that's a
(14:22):
little bit of a risk leaving duringthe, the time of the pandemic.
Well, I am a single mother, andso schools were shutting down.
Okay.
And at the time when I had asked foraccommodations to telework, mm-hmm.
It, it wasn't an option.
And so I had no other choice.
Oh, that's a bummer.
(14:43):
So I loved that job.
Mm-hmm.
And I would've gone back in a heartbeat.
It had things been different for sure.
Hmm.
Yeah, no, that, that's, that's too bad.
, I think law enforcement is alittle behind the times in terms
of embracing work from home.
And I think that's, that's unfortunatebecause I, I work from home.
(15:07):
I, I know how much I can get donedata wise, analysis wise, so mm-hmm.
I know there is at least anopportunity, especially maybe even
temporarily given the circumstance.
So that's definitelyunfortunate situation for you.
Yeah.
I, I think it was a very different time.
A lot of people were, werestill trying to figure out what
(15:28):
telework looked like mm-hmm.
On an everyday basis.
It was just management didn'tsee it fit at the time.
Although we had take homelaptops that had all the bells
and whistles for us to support.
Yeah.
We were essentially on call.
Because when, because Merced Countyis such a small, rural area mm-hmm.
(15:49):
None of the agencies within thecounty had their own analysts.
And so we, as the team of six of us,served as those agencies, analysts.
And so there were plenty of timeswhere like Merced pd had their
detectives called me and asked meto help out with a homicide several
homicides or a home invasion.
(16:10):
There are things like that.
And I supported a lotof Atwater PDs cases.
One of the cases was the previousdi district attorney's son was
murdered in broad daylight.
And so.
That was, I was on call forthat so it was like mm-hmm.
The capability was there.
It was just, I think from a governmentperspective is how you allow
(16:34):
somebody to work from home full time.
So,
, That makes it even worse when youactually can demonstrate that you have
worked investigations in the middle ofthe night or at all hours of the day.
Mm-hmm.
And have shown that youhave value remotely.
Right.
Yeah.
Hmm.
All right.
So then this brings youto, to San Antonio, Texas.
(16:58):
Yes.
In San Antonio, I wasstarting my life over again.
Mm-hmm.
So, kind of from the bottom Iwas focused more on staying in
the federal system at the time.
Mm-hmm.
Given that I'm an all sourceintelligence analyst background, I
wanted to keep my security clearance.
Current.
(17:18):
Mm-hmm.
And so I took an executive assistantposition with the Space Force, mm-hmm.
As a contractor.
And then unfortunately thecontract abruptly ended mm-hmm.
A few months after I took the job.
And so I was then hired as a secretaryto a lieutenant colonel Colonel Franta.
(17:38):
He was probably the mostinfluential person that I had
encountered in quite some time.
Mm-hmm.
He was the one that pushed meto find the career field that
I actually wanted to be in.
He was like, you're avery intelligent person.
Mm-hmm.
He's like, you are so much more thanthis job.. He's like, I see it in you.
(18:02):
And so I, I did, I went home that weekendand was like, what am I passionate about?
I already knew.
I wanted to be an analyst, which is whyI started going, I went back to school
for my post post-grad certificate withUniversity of Texas, San Antonio for
their intelligence studies program.
And while I was finishing that up,the army had posted a job as an
(18:25):
investigative analyst and applied.
And interviewed and eventually gotthe job, which took me to Hawaii.
Yeah, definitely want to get into that.
I, I do want to go back tothe secretary position now.
Mm-hmm.
'cause I, I think that's animportant bit in your history
(18:46):
and I think for the listeners, this isa good example of you just kinda never
know what doors are gonna open when,if you're listening to this and maybe
you're trying to get into the field andnever struggling to get into the field.
Mm-hmm.
Just, just opportunities to get inside.
The police departmentcan, can open some doors.
(19:07):
So whether it's data entry, 91 1, operator records whatever
it may be, sometimes justgetting that foot in the door.
Even though it's not an analyst job.
And in your situation, Erica,it wasn't an analyst job, but it
definitely led you down the pathto becoming an analyst again.
Correct?
Yeah.
Like I said, if it wasn't for ColonelFranta, I don't think I would've
(19:32):
pushed myself back into the field.
So I am forever grateful for himto push me to figure out what
I wanted to be when I grew up.
Mm-hmm.
And, and continuing in that direction.
Right.
So you're this California girl thatspent a little time in Texas, and
then you go over to be surrounded bywater in the Pacific Ocean of Hawaii.
(19:54):
Yeah.
I had lived in Hawaii before,during my active duty time.
It's actually where my daughter was born.
Mm-hmm.
It was my last active duty stationed.
I was, stationed on Pearl Harbor.
So going back to my daughter's,I joke her motherland was very,
really important for her because weleft when she was about 15 months.
(20:16):
So now she's older andshe got to go back home.
Nice.
Nice.
So just, pearl Harbor for you.
I mean, obviously for those that are afterthe fact and we read about it in history
books . But we obviously hear PearlHarbor and we think of just the one thing.
So, but I guess from your perspectivethe, the Pearl Harbor as it's
(20:39):
well known versus the, the PearlHarbor that, that, you know.
Yeah.
There, well, it was right acrossthe street from the Arizona mm-hmm.
So a lot of ceremonies took place there.
The base itself is a joint base now.
It, it's joint base, Pearl Harbor,Hickum Hickum being the Air Force side
(21:00):
and Pearl Harbor being the naval side.
But yeah, it, from anintelligence perspective and
as a history major, I loved it.
Because, you know what happened?
At Pearl Harbor was an intelligencefailure which the intelligence
community eventually learnedfrom, unfortunately, the hard way.
Mm-hmm.
But as a history major,there's so much history, right?
(21:23):
Mm-hmm.
So, but when it comes to the analystrole that I played when I went
back as a civilian it was more ofan investigative analyst position
for crime prevention in the army.
This is following the VanessaGuillen case and the Fort Hood
(21:44):
findings that the Army did.
A huge report on and the expectationof what the military's gonna do
to protect its service members.
And so to be part of that was eyeopening.
Mm-hmm.
Because my other roles hadjust been reaction, right?
Mm-hmm.
A crime occurred.
(22:04):
We're investigating it where this is.
This is what do we do to getleft of the boom, so to speak.
And so from my perspective, and I foughtso hard for the people I worked with to
understand was that you have to be ableto look at the crime data, the historical
(22:25):
crime data, in order to understandwhat prevention efforts are needed.
Unfortunately I don't think theyever bought it, and so I kind
of foresaw the crumbling of theanalyst position within this role.
It was public health and I believe,I truly believe that law enforcement
and public health are a greatcombination, could do great things
(22:49):
if they believe in one another.
And in this case, they didn't seethe value in the investigative
analyst role, which is unfortunate.
So I left to go be with Army CID with.
What I thought was going to ultimatelybe promotional opportunities.
But I was there until I left Hawaii.
(23:10):
So
, As you mentioned, when you firststarted, you were one of six
for the whole entire county.
So that's a pretty big area.
So, but here in Hawaii at, atthe base, like I'm envisioning
that this is a lot smaller area.
Hawaii, the islands aren't bigthat big to begin with, but in
terms of the base, we're talkingabout a much smaller area, right?
(23:32):
Absolutely.
So the role that I played inthe prevention effort though
was for the Army Pacific.
So that included Korea and Japan and
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So so much wider of an area than a county.
Okay.
But when I moved to CID, it wasthe installation and it's not one
(23:53):
installation, it's the installations.
There's several installations.
There's smaller pockets across theisland, but yes, it is definitely in
fact smaller than even Merced County.
Alright, so multiple areas.
So you were dealing with multiple basesthen when you were doing prevention.
So yeah, that would make, that couldmake it a little bit more challenging.
(24:13):
And obviously understanding theactivity going around the base
would be very helpful I would think.
In terms of, yeah.
Of trying to predict what it is.
'cause it's usually it can beoutside threats, but in, in
certain cases, as you've mentioned,it's, it, it's an inside threat.
Yeah.
Especially when it's overseas.
(24:35):
Mm-hmm.
Not only a language barrier, but processesare different when it's off installation.
But going back to the preventionmodels it really, there are factors
in what the Army considers as harmfulbehaviors, which they were trying to
reduce, which is like domestic violence.
Mm-hmm.
(24:56):
Suicide.
There are a lot of precursors that couldbe identified, and that's why I believed.
So with all my, eh, my everythingin this program mm-hmm.
Is because the data is there.
Mm-hmm.
We just needed to learn how to use it.
And the way, the way that thegovernment would allow information
(25:19):
to be used, it, the limitation,especially with criminal data, was only
to the investigative analyst series.
And so that's where thatrole in particular was so
important in this Army program.
This may be an obvious question,but why do you think there was
so much disconnect between.
, The military law enforcement sideand the military health side.
(25:41):
Well, that's a hard one to answerbecause the people that were making the
decisions at headquarters I don't thinkthey understood the importance of it.
And when they started this program, theykind of came in with blinders and were
like, this is how we're gonna do it,because this is the way CDC does it.
Mm-hmm.
But a military community is very differentthan a traditional city state, anything.
(26:08):
Right.
Your, your population is transient.
Right.
Every three years, soldiersand their families move.
Mm-hmm.
Which causes a lot of factorsthat make it difficult to.
Track people and monitor their behaviors.
But that's why I kept pushing, likeif we just had this one database
that filtered in everything, then Iof course in a perfect world, right?
(26:34):
Mm-hmm.
This would make this process of Iidentifying precursors to harmful
behaviors for the prevention efforts,which would ultimately lead to specific
training that soldiers and their families.
Might need to reduce ultimatecrime and harmful behaviors.
(26:54):
Hmm.
Yeah.
There is a lot to that.
That's probably an episode in itself
It's gonna actually bemy dissertation, so.
Oh, okay.
I can talk about it all day.
Yeah.
All, well, okay.
Well, let me think about it.
We'll come back to that when,during the pH d section.
You mentioned yesterday.
In our prep call that there was asituation where you were the only
(27:21):
non-doctor in a room full of doctors.
Yes.
When I was working in the preventionspace, everybody that I worked with in
this space was a doctor of public health.
And so it talk about awkward when you arethe only person that's not a doctor and
you're introducing yourself to the team.
(27:42):
And it's doctor, doctor, doctor.
And then I'm like, hi,just Erica, no doctor.
Which is what kind of pushed me.
In the direction of pursuing my PhD.
Just, just Erica, huh?
Yeah, just Erica.
Yeah.
And that man.
And that could be intimidating, you'realready in a situation when you, I
(28:03):
think back during my time as an analystor I've witnessed other analysts.
You come in as a civilianand you're in there.
You might be in a comstat meetingor you might be in, a round
table with the chief, right?
And you're, you're sitting thereat the table there and you're
looking across to all these years ofexperience and maybe certifications
(28:25):
and, and ranks, and then they'reyou part of the conversation, right?
You're, you have literally havea seat at the table, right?
Right.
You're there to talk,
right?
Yeah.
I. Not only being the only analyst inthis room full of doctors, but yeah.
Being the only one that wasn't a doctor,I feel not to be down a peg in the
(28:47):
sense that I didn't feel quite as heard.
And if I was a doctor, wouldI have been better heard?
Hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah., That's an interesting situation' credentialing matters to some folks.
Right, right.
And, but a good idea is a good idea.
Right.
So, alright.
(29:07):
As you mentioned, went on to CID there inHawaii, and this brings us to your second
analyst badge story, and this is dealingwith a potential auto theft problem.
Yeah.
So last year while I was with CID,we had a temporary special agent
in charge come in from Georgia oneof the installations in Georgia.
(29:29):
And when he got there as any good personin charge is reading up on the blotter
all the reports coming in daily and he'slike, we've got an auto theft problem.
There was two the other dayand there's two more today.
I'm like, no, there, there's not.
That's, it's just howit is in Hawaii, right?
(29:50):
It's not like, it's not alwayswhat the postcard looks like.
And so he wanted the data and soI was able to pull the data from
alerts, which is the Army's arm.
Mm-hmm.
And.
Pulled the data, cleaned it,and started to realize, yeah,
there's, there's not a problem.
And what I ended up doing with the datawas I did a comparison to on installation
(30:15):
and off installation per capita.
And what happened was it wasastronomical off installation.
I wanna say it was like 53 to every1000 off installation and like 0.1
something to per thousand on installation.
So it was like, yeah, there'snot an auto theft problem.
(30:36):
Especially when you're comparingyourself to off installation.
Literally a fence between you, right?
Mm-hmm.
And so, but being an analyst, Istarted to look at the qualitative
data and notice that what I wasseeing was more property thefts.
And when I was reading more and morethrough this is mps were annotating that
(31:00):
there were breaches in the perimeter ofthe installation and they were all walking
distance when I plotted them all walkingdistance from these perimeter breaches
to where property theft was occurring.
So from that I was able to producea product and present that to
the special agent in charge.
(31:20):
And he was like, oh, this is a problem.
This is a security problemon an installation.
Right?
And so he wanted me to send itup to kind of a funny story.
He said, installation commander.
And what did I do?
, I sent it to the Commanding General.
And so he calls me and he's like,are you drinking buddies with him?
(31:42):
And I was like, no.
He was like, I said, installationcommander, not commanding general.
I'm like oops.
Well, he got it and he liked it.
So
That's a fortunate mistake, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that was one of the lastprojects though that I worked
on when I was with CID.
I'm very proud of it though becauseit highlighted, I mean, being in the
(32:06):
Pacific in general is a high threatarea from an intelligence perspective.
But to show that unfortunatelynow our installation is at risk.
So hopefully they did.
So were the, the auto thefts beingmiscategorized or you discovered
the security breach when you wereanalyzing, looking after the auto thefts?
(32:31):
Kind of both.
Okay.
That is definitely, definitely thingthat the MP Corps acknowledges.
Mm-hmm.
You've got brand new privates.
Putting in reports less than six months inthe Army to senior people that are writing
reports and just human error, right?
Mm-hmm.
So it, it, as tedious as it was,I did start to go through certain
(32:57):
categories of the crime categories.
And so that was what, when I was goingthrough that and reading through the
reports is when I was like, okay,not only there miscategorized, but.
This is what actually is the problem.
Mm-hmm.
And give me an idea from the fencethat you were talking about being
(33:21):
accessed to like the civilian property.
Like is, is it just like right acrossthe street is like an apartment
complex or is there, is it prettyfar from the fence to civilian world?
Yeah, so depends on the insulation.
Mm-hmm.
But Scofield Barracks, literallythere's a shopping area.
(33:43):
I won't even, it's not evenreally a shopping area.
It's like a bar and a coupleof restaurants across the
street, tattoo parlor.
And.
But yes, there are apartmentsand they are low income.
It's kind of a rough area.
There's also an area near theinstallation property that a lot
of the homeless encampments are.
(34:05):
So that was one of thethings that the mps were.
Kind of responsible to do wasclear the homeless population
off the federal property.
Unfortunately you have to send out hazmatcrews and stuff like that when you move
homeless populations from their areas.
(34:27):
Hi, I'm Kyle Stoker and I'm encouragingyou to vote in the I-A-C-A-A elections.
So make sure you go to the IACAwebsite and vote because our
membership has a voice in who leadsthe organization and you wanna
make sure that your voice is heard.
Thank you very much.
Hello, this is Joshua Todd, USBorder Patrol, Buffalo Sector
Intelligence at Wellsey Island Station.
(34:48):
And I'd like you to remember thatnumbers on the page are reflective
of the humans that we serve.
We've had a recent report of an overdosein the county and we discussed it
at a local meeting, and then laterthat day I went to the barber, we
got a haircut, and the woman was.
Visibly distraught and we got to chattingand it was actually her son that overdosed
and, and passed away that, that last week.
(35:09):
So, uh, while we do a lot ofreports and they are numbers on the
spreadsheet, they end up, uh, reflectingthe, the humans that we do serve.
Well, as you mentioned, you end upmoving moving on from Hawaii, you go
to dc but I thought it was interestingwhen I talked to you yesterday in
(35:30):
the prep call I asked you to, if youmissed Hawaii, and your answer is
no.
Absolutely not.
My, my pocketbook.
So they say likes it more here in DC Yeah.
Oh man, that, that is funny.
(35:50):
I,
everybody's always shocked, like, really?
You don't miss Hawaii?
And it's like, go live there.
The B 52 bombers, AKA,they're cockroaches that fly.
Yeah.
Not fun.
Oh, man.
Paradise isn't whatit's thought to be, huh?
Yeah, exactly.
They don't show those in the postcards.
(36:11):
Oh, man.
All right.
So, but d dc has its own, hasits own character in itself.
Yes.
So let's get into that a little bit.
How's, how was that transition?
What are, what are you up to in dc?
So I left Hawaii for a position as aninstructor with the Defense Intelligence
(36:34):
Agency, which is where I'm currently at.
Mm-hmm.
What I do is I'm part of anine week long program where
I teach our foreign partners.
The US intelligence process, so, okay.
We have in the basic intelligence analystcourse we have, it's called Nick, which
(36:58):
is the national intelligence capabilities.
And then we have the final course,which was my primary course.
It was a one week as part of this wholenine week course program was Intel
support to multinational operations.
I will say I've had such a great timewith some really amazing students,
(37:23):
amazing coworkers as well, but towork with our foreign partners and
get their perspective of not just.
Intel.
Mm-hmm.
But our way of life compared to theirs.
So I've really enjoyed it.
Yeah.
So are, are most of theseEnglish speaking students?
(37:44):
Yes.
So they have to test to acertain English competency score.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of 'em do speakvery, very good English.
Mm-hmm.
There's been one or two thatthey're quiet and struggle a little
bit because their English does.
Isn't what I think was expected to.
(38:05):
Okay.
Hmm.
But that's gotta be a fascinatingdiscussion is your classroom diverse
in that the students are spread outall over from different countries?
Or are you basically teachingmaybe one group that's all from
the same country at a time?
No, so it's.
(38:26):
It's always several different countries.
Mm-hmm.
And what was really interestingwas the group of students that
came in during the election.
Mm. That was really interesting toget their perspective as somebody
that's not an American and mm-hmm.
And then of course outside the classroomwe would have socials and stuff.
(38:49):
And so during those times is whenwe got a little bit more ourselves
instead of instructor personality.
And they would ask like,what is your honest opinion?
And it's like, well I don't speakfor the arrest the rest of America.
Right.
And that's great thingabout being an American.
You, we all have our differentviews and perspective.
(39:10):
Right.
Wrong or indifferent.
But you know what they thoughtall Americans were, they.
To see me as an American and say,oh, you guys aren't all the same.
You aren't some, you'renot some arrogant prick.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
, I think I would really enjoy thatrole because I would love to just
(39:35):
listen to their stories and theirperspectives and hear their backstory.
Also get into what, what they think.
And just as you mentioned, like,this is what they think of America
is, or this is what this is howthey would define it or articulate.
Exactly.
Yep.
Huh.
Yeah.
And to have a different, like from allover the, the world be like that over
(40:00):
nine weeks and to have socials Right.
To kinda get outta the classroom andlet let your hair down, so to speak.
Yeah,
exactly.
Yep.
It was, I mean, we had Asian students,we had we had African students.
Mm-hmm.
Lots of European students.
We have quite a few MiddleEastern students that came in.
(40:22):
But yeah, a very different perspective.
And being the only female instructorit was interesting for me because.
Some cultures in countries, youdon't directly talk to women.
And so my, my coworkers had tosay that while you're in America,
(40:43):
you act as an American and youwill respect her, just like you
respect me and you can talk to her.
She's just anotherperson in the classroom.
And so it was never an issue.
Just different customs, differentperspectives, different values.
Yeah.
Yep.
So, yeah.
Interesting.
(41:04):
All right then let's move on then.
Let's get into someadvice for our listeners.
So that could be new analyst, experiencedanalyst maybe a return on investment,
something they could study now thatmight be important five years from now.
What do you got for our listeners?
I would say advice for someonelooking to enter the profession.
(41:27):
I would say there's alot of ways to get in.
Mm-hmm.
During the prep call you and Ikind of talked about it sometimes
it's who you know or if you'rewithin an agency, and sometimes it
requires a criminal justice degree.
Mm-hmm.
One thing I would say, especially tostudents or people with a criminal
justice degree that are interestedin the crime analysis field is join.
(41:51):
The associations, whether it beIACA or IALEIA as a student, and
start making connections that way.
One of the things that I did when Istarted with Merced County is I was paying
you for my own training because mm-hmm.
I wanted to improve me.
So start where you are.
Don't wait until you actuallyland a job to learn skills.
(42:12):
Use free data sets to sharpenyour, especially Excel.
I know.
That's where my bread and butter is.
And, but we're, a lot of usare transitioning to like Power
BI and Tableau and Python.
So that would be another thing thatI would recommend that they get into.
But definitely connections.
Even your local chapter ofsome of the crime analysts.
(42:35):
Build your network for sure.
And be curious.
The best analysts that I know are theones are not actually the ones with the
fanciest tools are the ones that kind ofhad to make it work with what they had.
Mm-hmm.
And remember, your work has to be done is.
Has to be done to be understoodbecause communication in the
(42:55):
analyst role is so important.
As far as a more focused response to yourquestion would be to fellow veterans.
So for this, I would say veteranswith service connected PTSD which
(43:16):
I've experienced firsthand, I wantto be up front with other veterans
who are considering this field.
Some police departments do hesitate,not always for fair reasons, but they
often have some concerns equating itto instability or assuming you can't
handle stressful material or situations.
(43:39):
Agencies may worry about security orconfidentiality, but unfortunately
there is still a stigma just ingeneral, but also in policing where
PTSD is kind of seen as a weakness.
The hiring process can be veryinvasive depending on the agencies.
Not just a regular fullbackground, but medical exams and
(44:00):
release of record, psychologicalevaluations, and even polygraphs.
Those steps can make agencies cautious.
If they think a diagnosismight raise questions.
But here's what I want other veteransto hear clearly, is that PTSD does
not define your ability to succeed.
(44:21):
Many of us manage it effectively,perform at a high level.
In my own case, I've proven that throughyears of service earning multiple degrees
in certifications, and now with me in mypursuit of my PhD in criminal justice and
criminology the discipline and resilience.
And problem solving skills that veteransprovide and bring to a table are
(44:44):
exactly what makes a strong analyst.
So if you're a veteran, thinkingabout this career field, don't
let the stigma discourage you.
Be open about your strengths, highlightyour ability to perform under pressure,
and know that federal laws protect youfrom discrim, from discrimination as long
as you can perform your essential duties.
(45:05):
This profession needs voicesand skills like yours.
Hmm.
So the, so I'm assuming that there's a,there's a rating system for PTSD, right?
And is this, is this something thatyou received from the military?
No.
Through the Veterans Affairs.
Mm-hmm.
So when I separated, Itook a medical retirement.
(45:27):
Mm-hmm.
And I, I don't know what theexact science is behind ratings.
I don't think anybody knows.
I don't think the VA actually knows.
But
just gave you a number.
Yeah.
It's like they throw a dart andwhatever you got is what you got.
But they take all your medicalrecords and they evaluate it.
Evaluate it, and see if there's any thingsthat have occurred to you during your
(45:51):
service that may have a lifelong impact.
And so like I said, for me I gotinjured during basic training.
So I have some feet, ankle issues.
And, but.
Most importantly is my two combat tours.
One during the surge where Iwas in Iraq, in the heart of
(46:11):
Baghdad for what, 15 months.
And that was a really bad timeto be there, obviously, except
for, the initial invasion, butthere was, it was very traumatic.
So some of us well, all of us that go to acombat zone, we don't come back the same.
Mm-hmm.
And that doesn't make you weak,but it makes you different.
(46:32):
So,
yeah.
I mean, I think it's hard too because,I mean, when you, you don't get a
job just normally, they don't tellyou why you didn't get the job, let
alone if, as you mentioned, therewas concerns about your PDSD rating.
Yes.
It was brought to my attention that arecent position that I had gone through
(46:57):
all the bells and whistles for at theend of it was there was two concerns.
One was.
My PTSD and the other was my jobs,how many jobs I've had, mm-hmm.
Which talking to a VA counselor, they'relike this is totally normal veterans.
You, you want, when you're aveteran, you've served and when
(47:21):
you get into the civilian sector,you wanna continue serving.
And so you're always like trying tofind that job that one fulfills you,
but also makes you feel like you'reproviding a service back, right?
Mm-hmm.
And so none of my, as I've transitionedthrough my careers, none of them were.
Negative, they were all inpursuit of promotion and growing.
(47:44):
Mm-hmm.
But they knew that when I interviewedbecause they had my resume.
So in saying that, thatas an analyst, right?
Stomp, stomp made me draw tothe conclusion that before the
interview and before they offeredme anything, they didn't know
about my PTSD and the fact that it.
Was mentioned that maybe this wouldbe a concern to leadership makes
(48:06):
me believe that that's what it was.
Ah, but because of legal reasons,of course, when I asked the
agency like, can you let me know?
And of course I wanna knowso that I can grow, right?
Mm-hmm.
I wanna know so that Icould fix it if possible.
. But they were absolutelyinsistent that they could not.
And would not tell me.
(48:27):
Why that decision was made.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's tough.
That is tough.
'cause you, you're right, I thinkmost people, I'm like, okay,
what do I need to improve in on?
How do I get the next job at the, duringthe next hiring process that I'm in?
And you, you want that feedbackjust as you mentioned to grow.
(48:48):
Right.
I understand that people get,departments get sued all the time and
it's a CYA situation, but from, fromyour point of view or from anybody's
point of view, what do I need to do?
Or what do I need to improve onbecause I, I'm willing to do it.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, alright, well let's talk aboutyour PhD. Now as you mentioned that
(49:12):
and I laughed when you said in thebeginning when you were talking about
you as a young adult, you didn't thinkcollege education was in your future.
And then so you went to the military andhere you're on like your fifth degree
getting your PhD, which kudos to you.
That's a, this is a gettinga PhD is quite an endeavor.
(49:36):
Yeah.
Maturity that's just not therewhen you're 18, 19 years old.
Yeah.
You're still living with your parents.
But after some growing up in the Armyit was free while I was in, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I took advantage of that and Ihad some amazing leaders while I was
in that supported attending college.
(49:57):
So I did and part of the allsource analyst training in the
Army, you can basically buycollege credits that translate to
what those courses are, mm-hmm.
Because all source analysts go toschool for an extended period of time
and each course aligned with a coursethat this university had offered.
(50:19):
And so all I pretty much needed to dowas my general ed and I knocked that out.
Got my associates beforeI. Left active duty.
And then the time between when Ileft active duty to, when I started
working with Merced County, I hadactually started my bachelor's.
(50:40):
That's when I started touse my post nine 11 GI Bill.
And I pumped out my degree ina ridiculous amount of time.
Like I was taking likeeight courses a semester.
Oh, I had no life.
So I wasn't, I wasn't workingother than my reserve duties.
So yeah, life was school and so I got mybachelor's and was like, okay, I'm done.
(51:05):
I'm gonna focus on my career as an.
As an analyst with the county.
And that's what I did for a while.
But when COVID happened during that break,I decided, why not go back to school?
Let's work on your master's.
So that's when I went back for mymaster's finished that in a year
and then was like, okay, I'm done.
(51:27):
And then that's when the conversationI had with Colonel Franta that.
Pushed me in the direction of goingback to school with University of Texas
San Antonio for their intelligencestudies program and ultimately led me
getting back into the, the career field.
And as we discussed earlier, being theonly person, not a doctor in the room
(51:48):
was what pushed me towards working on myPhD in criminal justice and criminology.
'cause that's what I love.
Wow.
So you mentioned that earlier, that you'restudying both health and criminology.
So what is your thesis going to be on?
So it's a spin on the Army'sprogram, the integrated prevention.
(52:12):
Advisory group is what it'scalled, I iPad for short.
The intent behind it is takinga public health model and like
establishing crime prevention efforts.
I don't wanna say crime 'cause someof the things aren't crime, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like suicide but harmfulbehavior prevention, right?
And so, mm-hmm.
I, there's so many studies of it nowversus like a couple years ago when
(52:36):
I was in this field that that showthe partnership where law enforcement
seek public health to partnertogether to combat crime mm-hmm.
And protect the community and crimeprevention efforts and yada, yada, yada.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
I just feel like it's kind of thereverse in the army right now as they're.
(52:59):
Kind of building the plane as itflies, so to speak where they're
creating this program from a publichealth perspective, trying to prevent
crime and harmful behaviors, butnot seeing the value in crime data.
Mm-hmm.
So that's what I wanna look atis the success of law enforcement
(53:20):
and public health mm-hmm.
In the communities, the successstories that could possibly be
implemented in the Army communities.
Yeah.
So are you.
Specifically going tostudy in the military?
This in the military environment?
Well, so after talking tosome of my professors mm-hmm.
(53:41):
It's more of a study of thesuccess behind law enforcement
partnering with public health.
Mm-hmm.
But taking those success stories.
And how it could be implemented mm-hmm.
In the military communities.
So it's not a focus specifically on themilitary communities, but rather the
(54:01):
the civilian, the law enforcement aspectof it and communities across the us.
Taking those success stories and applyingthem into the military communities.
I see.
Does that make sense?
It does.
Okay.
It
does.
No.
And so when oh, you're expect, Isee on your resume expected 2027.
So you got a couple years yet?
Yes.
(54:22):
I've got three more courses to finish.
Like traditional classes.
And then the rest of the classesthrough 2027, anticipated 2027 is
working on my actual dissertation.
All right.
Well, good luck on that.
I oh, I, I, I told you yesterday, I, I, Igot a master's degree, but man, I do not
(54:47):
want to read another textbook ever again.
And I am not a reader.
I do not like to read.
So I, I am a li I'm actually a littlebit jealous of people that go on
to get their PhD 'cause I know it'sso much work that you have to do.
So it's quite an accomplishment.
Well with today's technology, Iwill say digital textbooks and a
(55:12):
lot of it can be converted to audio.
And so mm-hmm.
Because I'm more of an audio learner.
I can listen to the audio book of things.
Mm-hmm.
Or even if I am reading a researchstudy, I can just, there's an app that
I use that just reads it to me and so Ican absorb it that way without actually
(55:34):
sitting down and physically reading it.
So that's what I do.
It's kind of a cheat, but
I dunno.
I think that's what my son doesthough too, so I don't, I never see
him actually reading, but he tellsme he, he reads, so I think he does
listen to the books on tape, so.
All right.
(55:54):
Well, hey as I said,that's awesome though.
That's a, that's a great endeavor.
So I'm looking forwardto hearing your results.
Thank you.
Let's go on to some volunteeropportunities that you're.
Are into skull Games.
You volunteer for Skull Games?
Yes, I do.
I recommend it to anybody outthere that might be interested.
(56:16):
I got introduced to it whileI was working with Army CID.
The team that I specificallyworked with was Sex Crimes.
And so what Skull Games does, ifyou're not familiar, is they work
with law enforcement partners and theyhelp identify victims and traffickers
so that the police can run with it.
(56:37):
It's all publicly available information.
But it's, it's quite an eventwhen you can participate and
did one operation in Hawaii.
With Kelly, she's the representa representative out in Hawaii.
She's awesome, but if.
I would definitely recommend it.
It's osint heavy, obviously, withpublicly available information and
(56:59):
it's for a good cause, and identifyingvictims and helping them get.
The justice that they deserve.
So is it ongoing or is ita specific period of time?
No, it's ongoing.
So once you become a member, thereare actual cases that you can work.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's ongoing, but they do havespecific events where they will have
(57:23):
people in person come together with a lawenforcement agency and they'll do a game.
And then they'll even have peoplevirtually help support that
operation to identify and findall the information needed to
identify the victim and trafficker.
Right.
Very cool.
Yeah.
We'll put a link in the shownotes for additional information
(57:43):
for those that may be interested.
Anything you volunteered for?
We volunteered together.
We were recently part of A-I-A-C-Aworking group looking to improve
the elections and ethics.
Process, and I can just hear thegroans and moans in the audience right
now that many of those that may besick of hearing about IACA issues.
(58:06):
But we went through that together.
So I just wanted to give you amoment and, talk about the, the
working group and your perspective.
I think it was a good opportunityto get involved to try to fix or
help advise the board on adjustmentsthat might need to be made.
I will say it was a very, veryshort period of time with everybody
(58:30):
working their full-time jobs andvolunteering to do this on the
side, it, there was a, a lot to do.
Mm-hmm.
It was very time consuming.
But I think at the end of the day,those of us that stuck through the
whole thing did the best we couldwith the limited time we were allowed.
But I definitely thinkit was for a good cause.
(58:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we only had eight weeks.
I mean, and that's, and those are two.
Meaty issues.
Right?
Like you yes.
You easily could have spent sixmonths probably on each, and
that's with meeting every Friday.
Right.
So it is tough.
And there was a, a lot of goodconversation I thought, going on.
(59:14):
But yeah, we just I think most peoplewould, are, are feeling that we needed
more time and we're not, we're notnecessarily sure where this is going.
Are the recommendations going to beimplemented or what's the next steps?
Yeah, I, I'm hoping that thisis a first step to mm-hmm.
Making the association better.
It's not perfect.
We all know that.
(59:35):
But we can definitely make theefforts to try to make it better.
Mm-hmm.
And I think doing that is having workinggroups to look at ways to improve them.
All right.
Well, very good., I don't knowwhy I just thought about this.
This is just, this is a really randomquestion that has nothing to do with
what we were just talking about, warnyou is your, how old is your daughter?
(59:58):
Is your daughter graduated?
Does she stay in Hawaii?
Is she with you in dc?
Oh Lord.
No, she just turned 11.
Okay.
She just started the sixth grade, so no.
Okay.
She, she is well traveled.
I, I see with everywhere we've been,but yeah, no, i've got a few more years
before I can boot her out to college.
I see.
I see.
But she's in DC I see.
(01:00:18):
I lived in Baltimore before I had kids.
And so we would have family and friendscome down to visit us in Baltimore, and
we would spend a day in Baltimore, andthen we'd spend the day down in DC mm-hmm.
And going to the monuments writingthe metro and, and on all of that.
And I, I know I didn'tappreciate it until I had kids.
(01:00:43):
And then I'm like, there's beenseveral times it's like, oh, I wish
I wish DC was just a an hour driveaway to get to go take the kids.
We've taken the kids there once, but Idefinitely miss it being just right there.
Yeah.
We actually live in Alexandria, so mm-hmm.
Right next to a metro stop,so it's an easy into the city.
(01:01:03):
I love it.
She.
Is not interested in history.
Must stick after her dad.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm like, how is she my child?
But yeah, I, I mean, I love it.
And then we actually just had thisconversation last night and she's
like, but there's nothing to do.
And I was like.
We're in the nation's capital.
(01:01:24):
What do you mean there's nothing to do?
She's like, it's all boringold people stuff and history.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, no.
Like we can go to a Nets game.
It's literally like a handful ofstops down the road, you know?
And Yeah, kid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh man.
Yeah, that's probably exactlyhow it would've been with my
(01:01:44):
kids had we stayed in Baltimore.
Oh man.
But, all right.
Very good.
Our last segment to this show,Erica, is Words to the World.
This is where you can promoteany idea that you wish one
or your words to the world.
One thing I would hope thatpeople take away from this
conversation, it's that analysis.
(01:02:04):
Is never just about thedata it's about the people.
Every chart, every report, everyproduct that we create connects back to
someone's safety and someone's future.
I've carried that perspective with mefrom the army to law enforcement and now
into the research as I pursue my PhD.And it's the same perspective I bring
(01:02:28):
as a mom because at the end of the day,we're all trying to build something
safer and better for the next generation.
So my message is keep learning, keepasking questions, keep serving in
whatever way you can, and that'show we move our communities forward.
Very good.
Wiley, every guest with, you've given mejust enough to talk bad about you later.
(01:02:48):
Sounds good.
But I do appreciate youbeing on the show, Erica.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And you be safe.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Thank you for making it tothe end of another episode of
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
You can show your support by sharingthis and other episodes found
on our website@www.podcasts.com.
(01:03:09):
If you have a topic you would likeus to cover or have a suggestion for
our next guest, please send us anemail at Elliot podcasts@gmail.com.
Till next time, analysts, keep talking.
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