Analyst Talk - Jennifer Corum - The Grateful Analyst - Leapodcasts

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.

(00:01):
It's like coffee with an analyst,or it could be whiskey with an
analyst reading a spreadsheet,linking crime events, identifying a
series, and getting the latest scoopon association news and training.
So please don't beat that analyst andjoin us as we define the law enforcement
analysis profession one episode at time.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope many aspects ofyour life are progressing.
My name is Jason Elder and todayour guest has eight years of law

(00:26):
enforcement analysis experience with19 years of law enforcement experience.
Overall.
She is certified as a projectmanagement professional.
She was also named theInternational Association of Police.
Chief's top 40 under 40 in 2016.
She's here to talk about her journey.

(00:46):
From analyst to Real-Time Crime Centerdirector, please welcome Jennifer Corum.
Jennifer, how are we doing?
Doing great.
How are you?
I am doing very well.
How is Louisville?
It's rainy right now.
It's raining in Louisville,
or at least it was when Ileft the house this morning.
Now do, do you say Louisville or like,how do you pronounce the city's name?

(01:08):
I say Louisville.
Louisville.
But I've noticed that anytime I'mon conference calls with people
outside of this region, I do have.
Say it Louisville, because theydon't understand what I'm saying.
Yeah.
I don't know where the one whereit sounds like you're like, have a
a mouthful of marbles came about.

(01:29):
But that's, I in spending time inboth Cincinnati and Nashville, I have
known enough people from the areato know that you call it Louisville.
Yeah.
So I also find it funny that I thinkit's really the only city in the country
where there's, this seems to be thisdebate about how to pronounce the name.
Alright, Jennifer, let'sstart from the beginning.

(01:50):
How did you discover the lawenforcement analysis profession?
So I actually wantedto be a police officer.
Initially, and I'm sure a lotof people go through that.
I had applied after the last year ofcollege and kind of during that last
year and into college, I had appliedfor several police departments.
I had interned with customs at the time.

(02:13):
Mm-hmm.
And just wanted to be a police officer.
Went through a lot of interviews.
I had a hard time doing the pushups,
so
I never was hired on.
Did well in everything else but that.
And then I saw this posting forAllen PD that said crime analysis.
And back then 'cause I'm, I'mold I graduated college in.

(02:39):
2005. Mm-hmm.
And they didn't, they, therewere, there were no classes at
all in college about mm-hmm.
Crime analysis or even what it was.
Not like it is now where they teachentire college classes and degrees
and, and on specific mapping.
And we didn't have that when I was incollege for my criminal justice degree.

(03:00):
And so whenever I saw this, itsounds silly to say now, but I had
to google what a crime analyst was.
Yeah.
Because.
It.
We weren't, we weren'ttaught that in college.
So I googled it, it sounded pretty cool,and I thought, well, I can get a job here.
If I can get this, then maybe Ican get on as a police officer.

(03:20):
And so I was hired on with LMPD in 2006in the summer, and I was one of four.
Crime analyst at the time.
I was the fourth one.
And we, at that time, I mean, we're apretty mid, moderate sized city, I think.
I think our at least now our population'sabout , 750,000 ish with like maybe

(03:45):
1.2 million in the region or maybeback then, that's what it was.
I haven't looked at thepopulation recently.
Mm-hmm.
But I was specifically hiredon to do the UCR statistics.
And so that's, that was my primaryrole and to get us certified.
And so that was, thatwas what I came in for.

(04:06):
But we started doing comp stat.
I remember the very first day ofwhere I started my supervisor.
He was a civilian professionalstaff supervisor named Tim.
Had one of the best laughs ever.
Sat me down for my very first day andthen started reciting like the, the,

(04:27):
the, the definitions of the differentcrimes in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
And I didn't really understandwhy we were going through that.
I'm like, I did just graduate college.
I kind of understand it now because.
You don't really learn laws, at leastwe didn't when I was in college.
But those, first few years, Ijust really started to fall in

(04:49):
love with the job and the people.
It was just the four ofus, four, eight years.
And then we ended up hiring a fifthanalyst for, oh, for a little bit there.
But even now with I, I've been with LMPDnow for 19 years and those four analysts.
The, the, the other three analyststhat were here before me they

(05:11):
are still here with LMPD as well.
Nice.
They were on longer than I am.
So two of us have gone into managementand the other two are, are statistical
analysts for the department.
So it was it's, have youever seen the office?
Yes.
Where Andy says at the end you don'tknow the good days until they're gone.
Yeah.

(05:31):
We had so much fun
Yeah.
Back then.
And I mean, we did every kindof law enforcement analysis
that, you can think of.
For a while there I did overtimeanalysis and then they had me doing
the, the overtime system, like whereI had to do the personnel system,
which wasn't analysis at all.
But we did com set maps and thenwe would do call record details.

(05:56):
Not too much of that because atthat time we didn't have a whole
lot of interaction with detectives.
We were pretty secluded andwe were at headquarters.
So we had a lot of interactionwith command, more so than
officers when they were in thefield or detectives during cases.
But as that progressed,we would occasionally.

(06:18):
Do real time events or do sort ofintelligence analysis on individuals
potentially involved with groups.
But on top of all that, still doingUCR stats and and then worked really
hard to get a sny R certified.

(06:39):
And then the, the year, it was maybetwo months after I was promoted our,
we, we were, we were NI R certified.
Nice.
And so the the, the records managerwho ended up getting us there, she
kind of took over from where I was.
It was like I kind of handedit over to her and then we
got it and I was really happy.

(07:00):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So who are these three thatare still there with you?
Yeah, so Dan Gillespie.
Mm-hmm.
He was here I think maybesix years before me.
He's now a technology manager Ryan Conradand then Brent Monroe , we were back
in this little office at headquartersand I just, we had so much fun.

(07:23):
I mean, I was 23, 24, 25.
And during that time I actuallymet my husband at work.
So he worked for City it and I rememberspecifically because I met him in
2010 and I had started there in 2006.
So at some point it kind of became alittle crazy that I knew my husband longer

(07:46):
while I was at LMPD than I didn't know him
before.
And that was kind of strangeonce that kind of happened.
But one of the, IT guys accidentallywiped and reformatted like 500 computers.
It was a total accident, but it was bad.
500.

(08:06):
It, it was like most of, mostcow of our metro computers.
Holy cow.
Yeah, it was bad.
I mean, this is 2010, so it was, itwas a while ago and there are a lot
more safeguards in place now that youknow that that stuff doesn't happen.
But, I was told by my sergeant atthe time to go over to it and get
a, a ghost boot CD so that he couldrebuild our computers from James.

(08:31):
And then I walk in and James is, I,I had actually seen him several times
where we would pass each other 'causehe would be in headquarters sometimes.
Well, it turns out he was doing itwork on MDTs at headquarters and then
he was moved to kind of a mid watchin MDT and like help desk stuff.

(08:54):
So it was, it was really crazy how we metbecause there's a, I i, I, I say this.
I, I owe a lot to, I, I mean,a lot of my life since I joined
LMPD happened because I was here.
And a lot of that I'm so thankful forbecause I don't know that I would've

(09:15):
met my husband in another way.
It was interesting the way thatit happened because it was so
corny, and we haven't laughed aboutthis in a while, but we used to.
But my coworker who was an analyst,she contacted his coworker who was
working with it, and they, theytalked to each other and said they're
both, we're both single trying tolike fill each other out and stuff.

(09:38):
And so I decided to give him my phonenumber, kind of like out of the blue.
And it was so cheesy 'cause I practiceit so much, but I, I took, I took a
blank cd I just, a blank cd, whichobviously I don't know if I don't.
Are CDs even a thing now?
No, they're not.
But at least if you say cd, they, theyshould at least know what a CD is or

(10:01):
I don't think we're that far past cd.
Go ahead.
I told you I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gettingup there in the, the, the older stage
of my career, but I, I took a blank CDand I wrote my name and phone number
on it, and whenever I saw him in theparking lot, I went up to him and I
was so nervous and I just shoved it inhis hand and said this isn't your ghost

(10:23):
boot cd, but it's something better, orsomething along that line, so, so cheesy.
And he had no clue whatI was talking about.
He went back to work and he waslike, there's nothing on this cd.
So he calls me at break.
Once he realized that there was a phonenumber on it, and we kind of like stuck,
like set up a first date and stuff.

(10:44):
And it was pretty much since then.
It was just, he, he, he actuallyproposed to me by writing on a blank cd.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah.
It was, it, it was a,a really good memory.
And all because of where we bothworked at the time, which those,
those 500 computers just hadto get wiped for that chapter.

(11:07):
Yeah.
The the IT director at the time,she used to say that she wanted
to use us as a positive spin on.
But like I said, there are a lotmore safeguards in place now than,
than there were back then, but,
yeah.
Well, I mean, 500, that's a lot.
Usually you get one or two by accident.

(11:28):
Yeah.
That's a thing.
But 500, that's a, a lot.
It
may, it might not have been500, but it was hundreds.
It was a lot.
Yeah, man.
And mine was one of them.
Yeah.
Huh.
No, that's, yeah, that's, that'sinteresting that you practice you keep
telling me you're old and based onwhere you, when you graduated, college.
I'm 10 years older than you, so likeif you're old, I'm not sure what that

(11:53):
makes me, but yeah, we're already have,we're already though kindred spirits.
'cause like the, the similar aboutwanting, to go to police academy and
struggling with the, with some of thephysical demands, getting into analysis
and getting different audit ends, jobsthere at task as in the beginning.

(12:15):
And then just that practice practicingbefore you're going to talk to somebody
is really something on that I still do.
Even at, even at my age,
I mean, I was 28.
And I had never like given my phonenumber to guy that before he asked for it.
So I was so nervous.

(12:36):
Oh my God.
Which again, nowadays looking backat that, it's like, well, that was
no big deal, but at the time it was.
But yeah.
Well, if it doesn't work out, then yougotta see the guy all the time, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Luckily I get to see him now all the time.
There.
There you go.
There you go.
Yeah, so it sounds like, in thebeginning , there they hire four analysts.

(12:57):
Mm-hmm.
You're all stationed thereby the executives and it.
You got different tasks, but it'salso like a little bit, sounds
like whack-a-mole, like whateverpops up, they're like, oh, send
an analyst to research that.
Whatever the issue of the day is, gofeed that to one of those four and
they'll, they'll take care of it.

(13:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean we, we did comp set that'sas so many do in their careers.
Mm-hmm.
Back then we didn't have it didn'tautomatically map, like it wasn't,
it, I'm not so old that we had toplace dots on the map, but we did
have to run macros and things throughlike crystal reports and stuff.

(13:39):
Well, not Crystal reports forthat, but we had to run macros
in order to have the maps create.
And is that like
an access?
That was through arc GIS.
Okay.
And then we had ma yeah, we had accessand crystal reports and all the kind
of stuff that I don't, I don't evenknow if they're u it's used anymore.
At least with, with my teamnow we don't use access.

(14:01):
Yeah.
Oh, we, we don't have awhole lot of our, our art.
GIS experience is mostly on like theweb version, whereas back then I had,
we had like desktop full everything, butsome of the analysts now are statistical
analysts, still have that kind of stuff.
But now that I'm kind of in a differenttype of analysis, because like you said,
we were, we were kind of a catchall.

(14:22):
We did anything and everything thatthey asked of us, we did stats.
We did, if, if a detective needed help,we helped them during the Kentucky Derby.
We would help in real time for that.
It was just, I did overtimeanalysis and everything.
UCR, all of it.
And then when I was eventually promotedin 2014 that, that is when we really had,

(14:47):
I, I think some, a lot of buy-in fromthe department to look at analysts and
more than just like, I hate to even callit whack-a-mole , but we did everything.
Yeah.
Jack of all trades, right?
Yeah.
You get asked to do all kinds of stuff.
Yeah.
And then in 2014, wewere able to separate.
A little bit.

(15:08):
So that we had analysts who,who started to become experts
in specific types of analysis.
So we still had some crime analystsbut then we ended up with tactical
criminal intelligence analysts andstrategic criminal intelligence analysts,
and then our statistical analysts.
So it was it, we went from, I mean, backthen it was four and I think now we have

(15:31):
I think 35, 38, something like that.
Analysts for our department.
Wow.
Yeah.
So it's we had, we had a lot ourcommand through the years have
recognized how important analysts,law enforcement analysts are
and have, have kept that going.
Yeah.
So this is a good point to talk aboutthis, 'cause obviously Louisville's

(15:52):
unique in that it's a metro, right?
So you are a City county combo.
Yes.
And so most of the analysts, that Ihave on the show, they're either on
the county side or the city side.
And if they're city side, they'rehaving a chief, and if they're on the
county side, they're on a sheriff.
So go into the, leadershipstructure of who you were reporting

(16:13):
to and who your clients were.
So within Metro we have a chief.
There is a sheriff's office withinJefferson County which is the
county that Louisville is in.
And I, I think that the officialterm is something like Louisville,
Jefferson County Metropolitangovernment or something along that line.
We always just call it Metro.

(16:33):
But the, there is a sheriff'soffice for the county that does a
lot with like court and deliverywarrants and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
I know that they do morethan, just delivery warrants.
'cause I know some of them are doinginvestigations and things like that.
But the LMPD.

(16:53):
We have our chief, we have two deputychiefs several, I think five lieutenant
colonels who are assistant chiefs.
And then I've lost, I don't know how I,I have to count how many majors we have.
Mm-hmm.
It's maybe 15 to 20.
I, I'd have to go through andactually like, count them out.
But then below a, a, a major is lieutenantsergeant, officer, detective but with us

(17:17):
because the unit that I'm in now we onlyhave professional staff analysts for those
of us who have worked as analysts before.
I report directly to a major who reportsto a lieutenant, co lieutenant colonel.
And then I beneath I, I hate to saybeneath me the I have two managers who

(17:37):
report to me and they have, one of themhas a supervisor and then that group
has 18 analysts working a 24 7 unit.
And then the other one has 14 analyststhat are embedded with divisions and units
assisting with long-term investigationsand cases and looking at group validation.

(18:01):
Information.
Mm-hmm.
So it's if, if that kind of helpswith the, the structure in mind.
We do work with the sheriff'soffice, just not as much as we
work with our own department.
Okay.
And obviously the sheriff'staking care of the jail and Yeah.
And, and whatnot.
We,
we have a separate, wehave a separate jail.
Oh, we do?
Yeah.
So we have Louisville MetroCorrections that handles our jail.

(18:23):
And that's a different,that's a different agency.
Okay.
And that, and that doesn'tgo through the sheriff?
No.
Oh
no.
Sheriff, actually I, if I'm remembering,I don't think that they're part of
Louisville Metro like government.
I think they're on their, likethey're a separate entity.
Mm-hmm.
The other thing, like we are, ourdispatch is actually through another

(18:44):
metro agency called Metro Safe.
So they're not throughthe police department.
They
are.
So the nine one, the 9 1 1 andCAD comes from a different Yeah.
Department in metro.
Yeah.
They handle emergency serviceslike, emergency management.
Mm-hmm.
9 1 1 for all the agencies.
Fire, EMS police and then NCIC as well.

(19:05):
Okay.
So it's, it is interesting becauseI know a lot of departments
have their own internal, likedispatchers and ours are with another
agency within Metro government.
Hmm.
And I just Googled it real quick.
It's like, looks likeabout 400 square miles.
Jefferson County.
Yeah.
Just shy of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And about a thousand officers give ortake, that's like Google says 2022,

(19:30):
so I don't know how many officersyou actually have, but, but it
looks like a little over a thousand.
So that's a pretty goodratio of analyst to officers.
You said, did you say 38 analysts?
About, yeah.
Yeah.
'cause we have the one group that's 18,and then we have another group that's 14.
And then the other, the statisticalanalysts, there are three of those.

(19:50):
And then
mm-hmm.
There
are two or three data analysts.
And then you have those that aresupervisors or managers of the analysts.
Hmm.
Now the data analysts, whatkind of tasks do they get into?
They are in a different section.
Mm-hmm.
But they do a lot with alot of the backend systems.
So they're probably doing data managementas it relates to data processing, pulling

(20:15):
data together, databases and whatnot.
I'm guessing.
I, I think so.
I, I, yeah.
Don't, don't quote me on that.
We
wouldn't, yeah.
No one quote us on that.
That's what, that's our guess, so.
Okay.
They're
always busy,
I'm sure.
Yeah.
You're always gonna be busy.
Yeah.
You're doing data management.
'cause it, again, you canget in as an analyst as we're
talking about, you can get into.

(20:37):
So many different roles, so you can spendyour whole time dealing with stats if
you want to, or your whole time dealingwith data issues and data management.
Or you can get into tactical, spendall your time doing tactical stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Doing administrative stuff.
There's there's all kinds of dataand analysis that needs to be done

(20:58):
at various departments, variousoffices inside a police department.
Yeah.
I mean, when I was an analyst andwe did all sorts my favorite was
always when something was happeningin the real time and tactical.
Which is funny how it turned.
I ended up with our realtime crime center.
So let's
get into that a little bit.
So as you mentioned, you started outas an analyst brand spanking new.

(21:23):
Mm-hmm.
And you do that for about eightyears before this, this idea of a
realtime crime center comes about.
So just, I guess just take us backto the beginning, like from your
point of view, like when you heardabout it, like what the idea was,
what the plan, how you got involved.
So it was the, the idea to create theRealtime Crime Center actually came from

(21:47):
a, an event that happened in the city.
There, it was March 22nd, 2014.
We had a group of, of, juvenilesgathered to memorialize a
friend that had been killed.
And I'm not exactly sure what happenedor how it happened, but we ended up
with several robberies, vandalismsand groups , of juveniles around our

(22:10):
downtown and in our waterfront park.
And it scared a lot of citizens.
And the mayor at the time decided to putcameras in our waterfront park and we
had a really forward thinking major atthe time who said, let's not just put
security guards in front of these cameras.
Let's create a real-time crime centerand let's staff it with analysts.

(22:32):
He was the major overthe analysts at the time.
He was our major.
He knew.
What analysts could do in alaw enforcement profession.
The mayor at the time, he wanted itdone in, I think they said like a month,
which obviously is not really possible.
Okay.
You got a month.
Yeah.

(22:52):
But I mean, we ended upstanding up the real time crime
center 24 7 in nine months.
So that was March 22nd.
By April there were cameras within ourwaterfront park, which I know that the,
technical guys that were installingthose cameras, I think they were like
sleeping at work, trying to get thisdone in time before we had this huge

(23:15):
firework celebration that's the beginningof our Kentucky Derby Festival called
Thunder Over Louisville and Louisville,
and that's on our waterfrontand in our waterfront park.
So they, worked night and dayto get those cameras up before
that thunder over Louisville.
And then they kind of proposedall of this and I decided to

(23:39):
put in for the, the promotion.
To be the, startingsupervisor over the unit.
At first I was, I was kind of terrifiedand my husband and I, we had talked about
it and he told me, give it three years.
If after three years like going intothis, you are dedicating yourself for
three years, and if you don't likeit, then you can find something else.

(24:03):
And I thought, I can do that.
I can do three years andthen now it's been 11.
So yeah, there
yeah, it
is like once you get into kind of likea law enforcement analysis career and
then you're, you're with people that youwork with and you, you care about them.
It it is it is very easy to blink.

(24:24):
And then it's 11, 19 years later.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Starts, you, you start lookingback and like, oh yeah.
Working with that person or doing thatactivity, working on that project.
Yeah.
Yep.
The, the major that you mentionedbefore, did you, did you say that
he was a civilian or is he sworn?
No, he was sworn.

(24:45):
Okay.
That's what, that's
what he he eventually actuallybecame major then lieutenant
colonel, then deputy chief, and theneventually chief for a little bit.
And then he retired and now he's achief of a smaller, we, we call them.
They're, I think they're ruralclass cities, home, rural
cities, something like that.
Mm-hmm.
With their, they're smaller jurisdictionswithin Jefferson County that are

(25:07):
not part of LMPD jurisdiction.
They have their, they're their own cities.
In essence.
Mm-hmm.
But they're in Jefferson County and heis now the, chief of one of those cities.
Okay.
So, so by the time you had got theposition to be supervisor, hadn't
like a lot of big decisions been maderegarding the day-to-day operations

(25:29):
of the real, real-time crime center?
Or was that stuff that you wereable to be part of that discussion?
So some of it was already done.
As in the job description that Iended up taking over it was the job
description for policy and procedure.
They were just trying to do it so quickly.
Eventually, I, got my own job descriptionthat actually talked about what I did.

(25:52):
And at the time we, we, we just hadcrime analysts brought in because we
had that job description available.
And so that was all done.
I was promoted in July of 2014.
And then the first thing I rememberthat I, I was told whenever I was
offered the position was hire your team.

(26:14):
And so I had never hired anyoneand my lieutenant at the time he
and I sat down and we interviewed.
Many people and ended up offering to nine.
'cause we started off with nine analysts.
And then one of those analysts endedup,, he declined right before we started.

(26:35):
Mm-hmm.
So we went into this with eight,eight analysts and myself.
And they were hired in August.
Were these all civilian?
They were, yeah.
Okay.
I couldn't find at the time, I couldnot find any, other 24 7 realtime crime
center, that was completely civilianized.
Yeah.
Now that's not as strange of a thing.

(26:56):
Mm-hmm.
Realtime crime centers really can bewhat your department needs it to be.
Yeah.
Ours has been civilian staffedby law enforcement analysts
from the very beginning.
And we've had occasionallylike a light duty officer in
the unit, but not too often.
The managers that I have now, theystarted off as analysts within the units.

(27:20):
, Over the years, we'vehired a lot of people.
So, , how many real time crimecenters were there in 2014
So I remember at thattime Cincinnati had one.
St. Louis had one, Albuquerque.
I think New Orleans came after.
'cause I remember talking that oneof the captains or colonels at New

(27:40):
Orleans had asked to speak to, with,with me and was asking about hiring
analysts in the realtime crimecenter and how that kind of worked.
And so, I'm trying to think of other,I know that there were more than that.
Obviously New York,New York was the first.
Mm-hmm.
Boston had had one.
But it was, it was a lot of it,it seemed like it was a lot of

(28:01):
like, larger cities that had them.
Mm-hmm.
Chicago had, and then they ended up, Ithink, splitting into like where every
single one of their patrol divisionshad their own real-time crime center.
Oh wow.
Yeah, but I mean, it's Chicago, it's
mm-hmm.
Millions,
over hundreds of thousands.
, You reminded me when you said Cincinnati.
I remember the, sworn officers madefun of the realtime crime center

(28:24):
in the beginning for Cincinnati.
'cause they weren't 24 7.
Mm-hmm.
So they called them thepart-time crime center, which I,
It's, over the years, somuch of that has changed.
Whereas back then , it really was the goalto have a 24 7 real time crime center.
And now real time crime centersare almost like a, a, a policing.

(28:48):
I. DO or method rather than justlike needing a room of people.
I mean, well,
I don't know how they don'tall run into each other.
'cause I talk to different placesand they'll have like, it seems like
five or six in the area and you'retalking about, we throw infusion
centers and different jurisdictionsand as you said, there was different

(29:10):
divisions that could all have one.
So, I mean, obviously you gottacommunicate, but you still have, it seems
like there's a lot of redundancy and alot, maybe some potential for overlap.
You mean within differentagencies in the area?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't think you would havethat problem being in Louisville, but
I've talked to like Dallas there'slike three or four or whatever it
is that are in the area, and younever know which, who's doing what.

(29:33):
Yeah.
I mean the we do have a, a fusioncenter in the Commonwealth.
Mm-hmm.
It's in our, our capital, Frankfurtand then across the river in Indiana
because it, a lot of people thatdon't, aren't from here don't
realize that Indiana is like.
Right there.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It's right
across the river.
Yeah.
Some of the smaller cities overon the southern Indiana side have

(29:57):
created their realtime crime centersthat might have one or two people.
Mm-hmm.
But they're still doing thereal time crime center work.
They're still doing that real timework even though it's not 24 7.
But now with, especially with technologyit, it, there's so many more things you
can do now outside of an actual room.

(30:18):
But we still have, our office westarted off with the eight and
myself, and now we have the 18.
And then let's see, it was four years ago.
They brought this.
Strategic analysts under me as well.
Because before that it was justI just had the, the, the tactical
real-time crime center analyst.
So yeah, a lot has changed in theyears since we went live in 2014.

(30:43):
Mm-hmm.
A lot.
So, so when you'rehiring the eight mm-hmm.
We we're hiring the nine thatturned into eight, as you mentioned.
I guess take us through like what areyou and the lieutenant going after?
What type of analysts do youhave certain tasks in mind as
you're trying to build this team?
Like what, what are some keys to, to thehiring process you're trying to fulfill?

(31:06):
One of the things back then, and, andeven, I mean now that still is one of
the biggest, I think, factors of success.
An analyst in this type ofa role is critical thinking.
Mm-hmm.
Having that ability to criticalthink and to notice detail was
has been a big factor with hiring.

(31:26):
But now, but we didn't at in thebeginning, but now we do almost like
a second type interview with, withcandidates that we're interested
in where we, quiz them on, noticingdetail on camera of like watching
an instant and then telling uswhat happens or what did you see?
Which direction was this?

(31:47):
Because that's one of the thingsthat with Realtime Crime Center,
we're, we're monitoring cameras whena call for service comes out to tell
dispatchers and officers what, whatwe see and what direction people went.
And so it's really important to beable to critically think I mean, we do
more than just cameras we're mm-hmm.
We do, workups and, and, andother things looking into

(32:10):
suspects for criminal purposes.
But the cameras is always kindof the thing that I, I think
everyone kind of latches onto.
Yeah.
And they
think they see real time crimecenter and they think cameras.
And then that's, that's that.
But there's, there's a lotmore to it than, than that.
And I know a lot of analystsknow that throughout the nation.
Yeah.
That there's more to it than just that.

(32:32):
Yeah.
I, I always think that the decisionmaking of those that are working in
this environment is crucial becauseyou have access to so much data and
you could take one bit of information,maybe an address and run it.
Through all the, databases and then, butyou could sit there and rerun and go down

(32:54):
different rabbit holes and try to uncoverdifferent pieces of different connections
and you could really start spinning yourtires and like wasting your time because
there's not really anything there.
'cause you just you're just go, you canjust keep on going if you wanted to.
So you have to, yeah, the decision hasto be of, okay, what's the best return

(33:18):
on investment of my time and effort.
Yes.
Yeah.
And it's interesting that you said goingdown the rabbit hole, because that was
when I was an analyst and, and we would dothat you'd end up with like 50 tabs open
in Google and then your computer wouldlock someone and freeze because you had
too many tabs open and you were trying tolook at too many things at once because
you would, I'm gonna open this tab andlook at that, and then I'm gonna open

(33:41):
this tab and look at that and then it.
The next thing you're,you're just lost in data.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so it's tough.
So do you have, in the beginningwhen it's like eight or nine
people, is it's like two per shift?
Is that what it was basically?
Or how Basically, yeah.
Yeah.

(34:01):
I mean, 'cause we went liveit was November 2nd, 2014.
So we had hired them in August.
They did 11 weeks of training.
And I came up with that training plan,which obviously I was an analyst,
so we kind of did it all together.
And I, I say that because the, theoriginal eight a lot of the things
like policies and things we wrote.

(34:22):
As a team.
Yeah.
Because , I hadn't worked in a realtime crime center and neither had they.
Yeah.
So we kind of built ittogether as, as we went.
Hmm.
And that was, so that wentlive in November and we
went immediately live 24 7.
There wasn't a we knew we weregonna be 24 7 from the first.

(34:44):
Moment.
And we've, we've been 24 7 since we'veonly, that I can think of actually
like closed a few times over the years.
And those were just forlike a few hours at a time.
If, if the during COVID we had todisinfect the office, so we had to
be out of the office for a few hours.
So other than that though one of thethings that's crazy, and it's not

(35:06):
really about analysts, but technology,our video wall, some of the monitors
on our video wall are original to thebeginning of our real time content
center, and they have been on mostly24 7 for almost 11 straight years.
And man, I cannot believethey're still working.
Oh man.
That is, that is something else.

(35:26):
Yeah.
Hi, my name is Victoria Curtis,and my public service announcement
is that despite how we may act,analysts are not omniscient.
Please don't just give us a nameand tell us to work our magic.
We're not witches, we're data people.

(35:47):
Please give us context.
A report number, a date,literally anything.
I'm begging you just alittle cru of information.
My name is Erin Havelka, and a pet peeveis people who hoard information when
we're all supposed to be working together.
If there's one thing I can't stand, it'sbeing on a case where someone is holding

(36:08):
on to all the pieces of information,like a squirrel holding their collection.
At the end of the day, we all havethe same goal to solve the problem,
investigate and help get the job done.
When we share what we know, everyone wins.
Hi, this is Jennifer Scavotto.
I like to tell peopleto try to find your why.
Try to find a mantra or a quote thatwhen it is tough in this profession,

(36:33):
you can kind of say that quote or yourmotivational, to keep things going.
So one of mine happensto be a movie quote.
It is, do or do not.
There is no try, and that is justsomething that I keep repeating to myself
if I, if I need a little inspiration.

(36:55):
So take us back to maybe the, thefirst month or, or maybe is there,
is there a particular story you'dlike to tell on the very beginning?
Like obviously you're, you're all newat this, you're all coming together and
like, Hey, we have this common task.
We gotta get this whole thing built.
And you're trying to doit as fast as you can.
They're, they're putting up cameras.

(37:15):
, You're getting your databases ready,you're getting, you're getting your
computers and everything else in there.
Is there a particular event or is therea story there that you'd like to tell?
The one that I can remember rightoff the bat that happened, and I
think it happened in December afterafter we went live in November.
Mm-hmm.
And it was some a a, a guy decidedto like parkour on one of our

(37:39):
bridges crossing the Ohio River.
And it was nighttime we sawhim on camera, the analyst did.
And they kind of tracked him, letdispatch know that he was there because
he climbed under the bridge and was likedoing parkour, hanging on the bottom of
the bridge over top of the Ohio River.
So that one I remember specifically,, they eventually got him and I

(38:02):
think he was, I think he wascharged with criminal trespassing.
So it wasn't huge.
It wasn't a huge thing.
Since then, we've, we've witnesseda lot of serious, more, a lot
more serious crimes on camera.
But that one, I don't knowwhy that one just sticks in my
head from the very beginning.
Was he just being goofy andjust like hanging there?

(38:23):
Or was he about to commit suicide?
What was he doing?
No, he was, he was having fun.
Like he was doing it.
Oh, it was like a, like
a, a bear.
Yeah.
Or like, I, I say parkour,but is that a thing anymore?
I don't know.
I don't either.
I dunno.
Back then, that was for fun.
People would do that for fun and he,it, I think it was kind of like that,

(38:44):
that he was just like doing it formaybe the fun and the thrill of it.
Yeah.
So again, it wasn't a huge thing, butI still remember that one specifically.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That we had on camera.
And I think that was maybe thefirst time that we were mentioned
in the news after we went livethat we had helped with something.
Yeah.
I think it's funny that, it isfunny though, I think about it.

(39:04):
I think in Cincinnati we hadsomething similar where it was like,
I forget, I forget what the crime was.
It wasn't as bad as like jaywalking,but it was like a pretty low
level crime that the guy did.
Yeah.
And the, the real time crime centerwas able to follow his footpath
through the, through the city.
And I remember one of thecaptains said like, chief.

(39:28):
We, this is our multimillion dollarproject that just caught you I can't
remember, it's not, it wasn't jaywalking.
It, it might have been, it might havebeen vandalism or something like that,
but it was a, joke there for a while.
I mean, in, the beginning withus our crime, our real time crime
center did not cost multimillions.
. So we did not, we did not go that route.

(39:50):
, After the analysts, like theystarted to know the city assisting
officers and started to gain somecredibility with the officers because
in the beginning there was this, like,who are these people telling us that
a suspect is going this direction?
Yeah.
We did there was one that I rememberfrom early on where one of the analysts
was working Light watch, and , it wasa robbery, it was like a home invasion.

(40:14):
And the officers got to scene reallyfast and got a really good description,
and the analyst saw a person matchingthat description walking along the road
about two blocks from that location.
And so that one did end up in an arrest.
Mm-hmm.
And that was, that was still earlyon too, where he was, I think,

(40:35):
I think our officers Arre foundhim and arrested him within like
15 minutes of the home invasion.
Yeah.
If I remember correctly, I think he, hehad even taken like a, a, a soft drink.
And he still was drinking soft drinkwhen they, when they found him.
Yeah.
But stuff like that, that was thatwas pretty early on and that was

(40:55):
one of the examples that were, wherewe could show that we could really
be of benefit to patrol officers.
Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah.
And just so, just so I don't get myselfinto trouble, it might not have Cincinnati
might not have been multimillion, maybeit was multi hundreds of thousands.
So I don't, I don't want to getmyself into trouble there with my bad
memory, but as you develop the realtime crime center and the, the more

(41:21):
you do, the more you have access to,you're honing in your, your skills.
As you look back now, maybe thosethat are getting into creating
the real time crime center.
What were some things that maybeif you had to do 'em over again,
you wouldn't spend as much timeon or you'd go a different route.
What were some of the lessonslearned that you experienced?

(41:42):
Hmm.
Some of the lessons it sounds crazyto say, but some of the lessons were
literally just about the building,the physical building of the unit.
Like, I mean, they when I waspromoted, they were pretty much
like, here you go, create this.
Yeah.
And so I made a lot of the decisionsand one of the decisions that I made

(42:06):
was not, we, we had a raised floor.
Because we, we, we couldn'tdrill into the floor.
So we had a raised floor and thefloor had already been picked out.
It was like concrete tiles.
And I know this sounds so silly butit was gonna cost so much more to
get it, the, the concrete sealed.
Mm. And we, I was like, I don'treally think we need that.

(42:27):
And we did.
I know it sounds crazy.
Yes, you should seal your concretefloors, but it made everything so dusty.
So a few years later, our facilities camethrough and sealed the floors for us.
So I know that some that's so minor andso ridiculous that I would do that again.

(42:49):
I would, I would have the floorssealed from the very get go.
But that and the secondary CHOsystem, again, that nothing to do with
analysis, but in the beginning whenthey built the, the room it originally,
it was open to other parts of thebuilding and then it was closed off.

(43:09):
And the analyst would be sitting in thereal time crime center at like three
o'clock in the morning and it would be 85degrees inside in January because all of
the monitors, all the computers that wereall on, and it was the boiler system would
just send heat directly into the unit.
So our facilities pretty, pretty earlyon, put in a secondary choline system

(43:31):
which kind of became a lifesaver.
Because then the analystcould control a little bit.
They couldn't control like massivefluctuations in temperature.
But it, that seems to be one ofthe things that a lot of people
like in their work environmentis to control their temperature
and Yeah.
Yeah.
Is your real time crime center like we.

(43:52):
Where is it located?
Are you, are, is it still by theexecutive where you were or is
it in a total different area?
No, so we are in the samebuilding with our dispatchers
and emergency operations center.
So we're within Okay, okay.
What's called our Metro Safe building.
Oh.
Oh, okay.
That makes sense.
Our IT department is also here,so we have really good internet.

(44:15):
But I, I say that joking, but I thinkwe're maybe one of two or three.
LMPD units within the building.
Our new headquarters, which we just hadour executive staff move into is being
renovated, will be moving to that once.
I think, I think our room is supposedto be ready next year sometime, and

(44:39):
I'm really excited about being back in.
Headquarters.
Because right now in order to tohave in-person meetings with anyone,
you have to drive everywhere becausewe're spread out all over the place.
Yeah, so really excited.
I'm really excited.
Headquarters.
There's not gonna be too many peopleat headquarters on third shift.
Is there gonna get kind of lonely?

(45:00):
Well, eventually so we haveour, within records, we have our
service center and they are 24 7.
They take online tips anonymous and known.
And they also take somereports over the phone.
They are professionalstaff, civilian as well.
They're currently 24 7.

(45:21):
And so once they move into thebuilding, it'll be I think they
are gonna be on a, I think we'resupposed to be on the third floor.
I'm not sure which floor they'resupposed to be on, but there will
be other 24 7 units within thebuilding from what I've been told.
, So then you're getting wellestablished at this point, and the
center grows, you work through thekinks and establish what mm-hmm.

(45:46):
What you guys are goingto do in major events.
Then you get a major event.
So , it's what, 2020 we got getinto COVID there's a police involved
shooting that then involves protests.
Your real time crime centerthen goes into emergency mode.

(46:08):
Talk a little bit from yourperspective, , as the city is, dealing
with,, the protest and the aftermathof the police involved shooting.
Yeah.
So during COVID.
That was at the kind of beginning of 2020.
I don't know how other departmentsdid with their analysts, if
they had them work from home.
I know a lot of city employees inMetro would work from home during that.

(46:32):
We couldn't though.
So we were, here 24 7 through COVIDunless, which I bring up the few times
that we closed we closed like maybetwo or three times when they had to
come in and disinfect our office.
Mm-hmm.
Because someone would beexposed to COVID or something.
But we had protest occur thatsummer like a lot of cities had.

(46:56):
And our analysts went.
We were already 24 7, but it was kind oflike all hands on deck and the analysts
were working 12 to 16 hour shifts.
For a lot of that summer.
I remember the first two weeks, I thinkI worked maybe 95 hours each week.
It was, it was pretty much you, I,I was at work, I'd go home and sleep

(47:18):
and then come back and that was it.
I know a lot of theanalysts did the same thing.
And at that time, like my office that'spart of the real-time crime center.
We ended up having to put a cot in itin case the analyst needed a break.
We never, no one ever hadto like actually sleep here.
But it was there just in casejust in case they needed it needed

(47:40):
a break and needed to lay down.
So I, I don't think I waseven in my office for maybe.
Two or three months maybe.
Yeah.
I was, I was mainly in theEOC or with the analysts.
. It sounds
like you've grown, I mean, obviouslyin this situation, giving it's
an emergency type situation.
Do you have like twice asmany analysts on duty then

(48:00):
.Yeah, we went to 12 hour shifts.
And so it was it, instead ofthree shifts a day, it was, we,
we split it up, so there were two.
Mm-hmm.
And it was a pretty much a tradeoff because for a little bit there
during a state of emergency it isall hands on deck and it is off days
are canceled and you were there.
We were still in our officedowntown during that entire summer.

(48:24):
And some of the protests were likeright outside your building, right?
Yeah, yeah.
That was we, we, ourbuilding was downtown.
Mm-hmm.
And the protests were primarily.
Centered in our downtown area.
. Obviously pretty stressful.
You said all summer , to do thatfor that long a period of time.
That's, that's a lot.
That canceled vacations,canceled time off.

(48:46):
Mm-hmm.
As you think back during this time, isthere anything particular that sticks out?
I almost quit.
Mm-hmm.
I, I think I think that Iwas probably I think a lot of
that, that was just nationwide.
A lot of people almost quitor thought about quitting if
they, if they didn't quit.
But I remember.
I went into the conference roomand was probably 11 o'clock at

(49:07):
night and I was I was upset and Icalled my husband and was like, I'm
gonna quit right now and come home.
And he said something to me thatI still remember to this day.
He said, you cannot walk out on your team.
You can't leave themin the middle of this.
And he said, right now you, you can't,you're not in a place where you can

(49:29):
kind of make that kind of decision.
Mm-hmm.
And so he said, when this is over, if youstill wanna leave, we'll figure it out.
And we'll, you can go somewhere else.
And I mean, that was fiveyears ago and I'm still here,
still deciding, ? No, no, I've, I've,
I've made my decision.
, I think that this department hasa lot to offer to the community.

(49:53):
It constantly feels like it's, it'sgrowing and changing and I feel like
we're headed in the right direction.
As I've started the, podcast pretty muchright around the time that you're dealing
with this in, in the summer 20 20, 1of the things that I didn't anticipate
a lot of analysts talking about is.

(50:14):
The mental impact on them.
And I, I think it's great that thishas become such a big discussion
and the, the impact on analysts andthe impact on all civilians really.
Mm-hmm.
And and then we're sworn too, butwe're talking about going back
10, 20, 30 years that that wasn'tsomething that was necessarily talked

(50:36):
about, researched or, or reallyhad any policies or procedures on.
One of the big improvements in theoffice of the analyst world is just the
monitoring and a better understanding.
Maybe I'll use that of themental health impact on analysts.
Absolutely.
So during that time was reallythe first time when we had kind of

(50:59):
interaction with our peer support team.
Where peer support it, it wasalways said peer support was here
for everybody in the department.
And then they really were.
Mm-hmm.
That's good.
They were here for all of us.
And then since then our departmenthas really honed in on wellness
in all, in, in several differentfactors, but mental wellness,

(51:23):
financial wellness physical wellness.
And so we now have a a wellness centerthat's specifically dedicated to our
department, and it's for all of us,including professional staff team as well.
So we have access to a lot of resources.
We have access to a gym and wehave access to psychologists
, they really worked hard.

(51:44):
Our foundation really jumped in with that.
And it, it's, it's awesome howit's for everyone in the department
because it's, it is recognized,dispatchers can, can experience trauma
mm-hmm.
During a normal shift.
The, an analysts in our center,, they can experience trauma.
We've seen things happen on camera thatI wouldn't want other people to see.

(52:08):
And we've had incidents occur wherewe've had to call peer support and make
sure that the analysts are taken careof or at least know that they have the
option to reach out, if they need help,
they're not alone.
Yeah.
Because we've had analysts on dutywhen officers are killed on the line of
duty it's, it's difficult for everyone.

(52:29):
It's difficult to listen to theradio when that's happening.
Mm-hmm.
Or when there's a, a serious.
Incident, a criticalincident that's occurring.
But now the mental health and wellbeingof all of us within the department is
looked at, it's a great development.
Mm-hmm.
In law enforcement and policing
yeah.
Given that you were on the brink ofquitting, I'm curious was there any

(52:53):
policy changes or was there anythingthat, either the real time crime center
changed or maybe the department as awhole changed in terms of a critical event
.As you mentioned, you're on 1216 hour shifts.
For long periods of time.
Yeah.
Our, our, our department has done alot of policy changes a lot of a lot of

(53:16):
studies and, and looking at improvementson how we can improve as a department.
, In the 11 years that I've, I'vebeen here I know my management
style has changed a lot.
In the beginning I was so concerned withmaking sure that we were taken seriously.
Making sure that we were seenin that, that positive light.

(53:37):
Mm-hmm.
Especially by the officersthat we were supporting.
And I was very, like, I had verystrict things that I was like,
we have to do things this wayand we don't want any of it.
I don't know how to phrase that.
It's kind of funny 'cause we'vetalked about it like going through our
twenties and even into our thirties.

(53:58):
Like you just, there's certain thingsthat happen when you're in twenties
that like you're really worried about,you haven't done a lot of things.
Mm-hmm.
You haven't experienced a lot of things.
You don't want to get pigeonholed orget the reputation for certain stuff.
, But once you've you get through yourtwenties and your thirties you can just
get more experience under your belt.
You get projects, you havesuccesses and, and whatnot.

(54:19):
Yeah.
Some of, some of that anxiety aboutyou, like you mentioned, buy-in,
just kind of go away because it'slike, okay, look, I've done this.
I'm, I'm kind of part of the show.
Yeah.
And now, I mean with our real timecrime center tactical analysts.
And the strategic analysts, we haveour strategic analysts embedded with
mm-hmm.

(54:39):
Divisions where they're working handin hand side by side with detectives
to work on long-term investigations.
Whereas, I mean, that's something thatwe didn't do until barely recently.
Mm-hmm.
And it, it seems likenow , all the detectives want
an analyst in their office,
Which I think is

(54:59):
A, a positive and, and massive creditto the current analysts that are in that
situation that they've, done so well.
Mm-hmm.
Have built those relationships.
Where they, they're asked to go tomeetings to discuss things within the,
the division that they're working.
They're asked to look at a hotspot.
They're asked to do hotspot maps on whereare stolen vehicles being recovered . So

(55:23):
it, I do think that that's and again,a credit to the, the analyst that have
been embedded and are currently embeddedwith our divisions that the, detectives
have come to rely on that analyst beingwith them and assisting them with cases.
Good.
All right.
Let's move on to our advice section.

(55:46):
What do you advice, do you havefor our listeners, whether it's.
Someone trying to get into the field.
A new analyst, an experienced analyst,maybe there's something that, that
you'd recommend that they study today.
'cause it's gonna beimportant down the road,
For someone wanting tojoin the profession.
, When you have an interview, makesure the interviews now they're.

(56:10):
They can be in person or online.
Back when we started onlineinterviews were not a thing.
Mm-hmm.
You did everything in person.
And so back then I would always, a,a pet peeve of mine would be when
someone would walk in wearing like flipflops and jeans to a job interview.
Yeah.
Now you can't tell that whenyou're on an online call.

(56:30):
But one of the things that I always,I, I think is really a positive with
a candidate is when they've actuallylooked at and, and kind of researched
your department or the job that theyyou wouldn't believe how many times
we've, we've interviewed a candidatewho doesn't know what a real time crime

(56:51):
center is, or like it's in this dayyou can Google just about anything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do
your homework.
Yeah.
Do your homework beforeyour job interview.
And and don't be afraidin the interview to.
Talk yourself up on like what you've doneand take credit for what you've done.
Because, and a lot of people, myselfincluded, sometimes had that tendency

(57:16):
to say like, what wasn't just me?
And, and I wasn't like, or, or I, Ididn't have a whole lot to do with this.
Or like when I became an analyst,I worked in a real estate office.
I was a, an assistant, likean administrative assistant
in a real estate office, and.
I went from that fresh outta collegeto being a law enforcement analyst.

(57:40):
And I remember in my interview the,the thing that I kind of connected the
two together was that I had created adatabase of properties at the location
that I could reference and see whatwork that I had done in the previous,
in, in before on which properties.
Mm-hmm.
And I use that as a, like Ididn't have database experience or

(58:03):
access experience other than this.
And so trying to make sure that potentialthings that you've done that could be
related, that you explain those because.
We hire analysts fromall different fields.
Mm-hmm.
Most of our analysts weren'tanalysts before they came here.

(58:23):
We've, well, we've hired from corrections,probation, and parole loss prevention.
Yeah, we've hired one of thecall takers from our dispatch.
We've had some analysts come to usfrom like a mental health facility
or the military, or we had one whocame from like a cell phone store.

(58:45):
He worked on, he sold cell phones.
But they, every, the thing that most ofthem had in common was that they had those
critical thinking skills the attentionto detail and they sold themselves.
Yeah.
I, I. I still find it hardto this day to sell myself.
I, I, I do too.

(59:05):
, I think for a lot of people that I knowthat struggle with that, it's like,
oh, they, they see other people thatare like completely full of shit, so
they don't want to go on that aspectof like, totally blowing up, making
a bigger deal out of something thatreally wasn't all that big a deal.

(59:27):
Right?
Yeah.
So there's that art of, of, andit probably get goes into what
you said about selling yourself.
There's, there's that art of you're notnecessarily boasting, but at the same
time what you, what you did mattered.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But yeah, that would be probably my adviceto someone going into the profession.
Alright, let's move on topersonal interest then.

(59:49):
So you're a mom of four, so I knowthat keeps you busy and you, and you,
I'm a mom of, of a 4-year-old,
a 4-year-old, 4-year-old.
I, I don't know why I want to give youmore kids than one, but I had this,
we were on the prep call yesterday.
I was like, I don't know why Ithought you had at least two kids.
I, for some reason in my headYou have multiple kids, Jennifer?

(01:00:10):
No, I, I have one, daughterwho is beyond perfect.
Yeah.
If, if, I mean, you understandwhat I mean by that is that she'll,
she'll always be perfect in my eyes.
Yeah.
But yeah, she's four years old.
And not to get like too much intolike the TMI stuff, but I mean, we, we

(01:00:31):
had struggled with infertility for awhile and it took I think six years.
To get pregnant with her.
And so we are just beyondblessed that , we have her.
Yeah.
Let alone any others that, would come.
But also,
you
know, I'm so we're just,we're just lucky to have her.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that's, that.
It's and that's a, andthat's a, that's a fun age.

(01:00:54):
It, it really is.
It's, it's, it's interesting as we'refriends on Facebook and, mm-hmm.
One of, I, I think one of thebest features on Facebook is
like, it shares the memories.
So my, my, my kids are 16 and 13, sothey're like, I get memories every day
about them as toddlers, as, as four yearolds in school and all this other stuff.

(01:01:15):
So it's just, but that time isas they're, as they're four.
Like, it's, it is a special time.
Yeah.
Right now we're in that phaseof we hear wanna play 50 times
a day, even while we're playing.
Yeah.
We're like, honey, , we'redoing that right now.
There you
go.
But she hasn't gotteninto the Y phase yet.

(01:01:38):
Yeah.
Which I've heard is coming.
It might, it, it might not.
Like my, my son went at four,like, he was just, he just liked
to do what he wanted to do.
So when we were at daycare, we would pickhim up and he'd be like, yeah, Eisen.
He he really didn't wannado group activities today.
He was fine doing what he wanted to,but then when we were told him into the

(01:01:58):
group, he kinda threw a fit type of thing.
So so when I drop him off, Igot to the point where I would,
I would say be a good listener,have fun and do group activities.
Like, that's like, I would alwaysgive 'em three things, like as
a pep talk and like my wife juststill says that do group activities.
That's awesome.

(01:02:19):
I'll have to do that with her 'causeshe loves to do what she wants to do.
And she I don't know if you've seen theInstagram posts where they make jokes
about my daughter is either gonna be theCEO of a company, or like a leader of
a prison gang or something like that.
And she's, she's very headstrongeven for a 4-year-old.

(01:02:41):
I, I mean, she's, she's amazing.
Mm-hmm.
We have our, our family, wehave a. Lot of fun with her.
And like with, tomorrow is Halloween and
yeah,
this is the first year where shehas really understood all of that.
Mm-hmm.
And she picked out her owncostume for the first time.
So, nice.
, I just took her shopping and wewere looking at these beautiful

(01:03:04):
princess dresses and I was like,do you want a princess dress?
And she chose a dragon costume.
Nice.
And secretly my heart was like,
yes.
I mean, it's, it's a reallypretty dragon costume.
It's like pinks and purplesand teals and stuff like that.
But even now, she'll walk aroundthe house in her dragon costume.

(01:03:26):
And then wanna go pretend, trickor treat around the living room.
So that's that's a fun,it's fun age with that.
Yeah.
Especially now that she understands.
Nice.
And then, and I, I don't knowreally how to transition to this.
Your health is good for
now.
I mean, for now say that,
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's, get into that.
I, I, again, this is personalinterest, getting kind of more into

(01:03:47):
personal things, but I just for,for the listeners, let's talk about
your cancer diagnosis, the story.
And obviously you're, you're in a lotbetter shape now, so that's great.
Yeah.
I and I actually, I, I want to talkabout this with people because it,
it is one of those, it's one ofthose stories that you always, you

(01:04:08):
never think that you're gonna be.
On the end of hearing from adoctor that you have cancer.
And then I don't know.
It, it, it, what, what ended uphappening and it's actually had started
in 2020 be, this is one of our firstnoticed kind of a lump on my breast.
And I had multiplemammograms over the years.

(01:04:28):
Got pregnant and, and had a, had mydaughter and ended up multiple mammograms.
I had, I think I had two or three.
And every single one of them, the doctorsaid it was a cyst, but it was painful.
Like if, if you accidentallyhit it, it hurt.
Mm-hmm.
And so I went to a dermatologistwho sent me to a surgeon

(01:04:49):
who said, well, it's a cyst.
I can't remove it.
You have to go get it drained.
So I went to the hospital to getit drained and they said, this
is an cyst that can be drained.
You have to go back tothe, the dermatologist.
Oh, geez.
So went back to the dermatologist whosent me back to the surgeon, who finally,
whenever I was like, I don't care.

(01:05:09):
Just I, I want it gone.
And by that point it had turnedinto two lumps instead of one.
And so the doctor, she,went ahead and did it.
And then it came back as stage twonon-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which crazy enough
that it was, it was a lump on my breast.
It was not breast cancer, and it wasnot skin cancer, even though it was

(01:05:30):
completely contained within the skin.
It was blood cancer.
Mm-hmm.
So I had to go through a prettyintensive chemo treatment because
when you have like a blood cancerlike that, it can pop up anywhere.
Mm. From as I, as I, as I learned.
So there was the chemo was, it wasthe kind that had your hair fall
out and stuff because it had to killjust about anything and everything

(01:05:54):
anywhere in your body because it,blood cancer could pop up anywhere.
So we did that, I did twomonths of, chemotherapy and
that was like every three weeks.
It was going in for another roundand had a port and a bone marrow
biopsy and all that kind of stuff.
And
Ooh,
That's, that, that bone marrowstuff's, was that pretty, I've

(01:06:15):
heard that's pretty painful.
It wasn't
okay.
And the
reason it wasn't is the, the hospital thatI went to to have it done, I hesitate to
say they drug you to the hilt, but they,like, they put you, you're, you're awake.
But you can't, I, I didn't feelanything other than the pressure.
And they have you kind of so loopy thatI, I don't know, even if it had felt

(01:06:40):
pain, if I would've even registered it.
So in that sense, 'cause I had heardhorror stories and I was terrified Yeah.
To get the bone marrow biopsy.
And then it happened and I waslike, that was nothing other than
like, I could feel the tapping.
On my bone.
Yeah.
Which was kind of weird.
Yeah.
But yeah,
, So they, removed the cyst, andthen they did the testing and

(01:07:01):
that's when they found, found out.
And there was, it, it hadmissed, like that cancer was,
went undetected through Yeah.
So many other appointmentsthat you had, right?
Yeah.
So the mammograms they were lookingspecifically at things within the,
at least from what I can understand,they were looking at like your,
more of your, your breast tissue.

(01:07:22):
Mm-hmm.
Then the skin on your breast.
And so it looked like a, acyst to, to all the mammograms.
But I've had several doctors.
And nurses and medical professionalstell me the fact that I advocated for
myself and I, I said I, I want it gone.

(01:07:43):
Mm-hmm.
Even though I have no reason.
No.
Like I, at the time, I had nomedical reason to really want
it gone other than it hurt.
Yeah.
And
I pushed it and pushed it and pushedit until someone finally listened.
And then lo and behold, and I, Istill think about that because I had
that lump all the way back in 2020.
Oh, wow.

(01:08:03):
So I, I'm, I'm like, how long was thatactually , growing my system or, or
building, that, that I did know aboutit and probably wouldn't have known
about it had I not had them remove it.
Yeah.
I don't know this for sure, but I'mjust thinking at any time it could
have started spreading aggressively.
Yeah.
So with mine it was stage two becauseit was in two different places.

(01:08:27):
Mm-hmm.
Which is how they categorize thistype, specific type of cancer.
I don't think they dothat for all cancers.
But yeah, with this one it was in myunderarm lymph nodes and my breast, like
my breast skin, my skin on my breasts.
And so I had to do like PETscans and all that kinda stuff.
And I, I, during thatprocess LPD was amazing.
My major at the time, who's nowa deputy chief she was fantastic.

(01:08:52):
And like, do what you need to do.
Like we're.
We're behind you.
But the real thing that I, I think I cameto really understand with that experience
was just how caretakers aren't givenenough credit for what they do, especially
when you have a family member who's ill.
Mm-hmm.
Because my husband tookcare of everything.

(01:09:14):
Like he took care of me.
He, we had a a, a toddler.
This was 2013 when this happened.
So she was.
Two years old and he took careof her, took care of me, worked
full time, kept the house up.
Like I, I still don'tknow how he did it all.
Yeah.
Like we would have family members whowould bring his meals and, and sign

(01:09:35):
up like after chemo was specially.
But the type of chemo I had changedmy taste buds during that time.
So like I, nothingreally tasted good during
Yeah.
During
that period.
But they, my family and a lot offriends would bring us food and that
was really helpful because I wastoo weak to like cook all the time.

(01:09:58):
Yeah.
And he was doing everything else.
Yeah.
So it's, it, I, I think thatthat's something that a lot of
people don't realize becausethey're like, well, you had cancer.
And I'm like, yeah, but I slept like
I,
not that I had it easy by any stretch,but I would go to chemotherapy.
And then I would come home and I wouldbe pretty much asleep for days afterwards

(01:10:22):
and he had to do everything else.
And that's something that I don't,again, I don't think, I don't
think a lot of people recognize orrealize how much caretakers have
to do when their loved ones aregoing through something like that.
Because I, I don't know whatI would've done without him.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
So
how, how long did it take from likemaybe your first chemo to like,

(01:10:48):
just maybe feeling it's kind of,for lack of better word, normal.
Like you, maybe your taste buds cameback and your strength came back.
Like, like how long was that periodfrom like, beginning of chemo
to like feeling like yourself?
So I'm a, I'm, I guess I'm one of thoseweird people that have like dates.
So I, I was diagnosed on May 31st.

(01:11:09):
Mm-hmm.
And I started chemo on July 27th,and then September 26th was the day
that I was told I was in remission.
And then mm-hmm.
It was gone, but I had todo one more round of chemo.
So I did four rounds of chemoover like a two month period.
And then it took that was, that was 2023.

(01:11:32):
So.
Some tastes didn't come backuntil probably late 2024.
Okay.
Like
I used to drink coffee all the time.
That took a while to come back wherecoffee didn't taste good for a while.
Mm-hmm.
One time I made a grilled cheesesandwich that I accidentally burnt
and it did not taste burnt at
all.
Like nothing.

(01:11:52):
It tasted completely fine.
And I mean, I even took a picture'cause it was like burnt to a crisp.
Oh man.
And
my mom, it's like, don't eat that.
It can cause cancer.
Give you
a bellyache.
Yeah.
But it, it tasted completelyfine to me at the time.
And like whenever we'd go to McDonald'sand get chicken like the McNuggets

(01:12:13):
and stuff, I, I would always get thebarbecue sauce and for a really long
time that it did not taste good at all.
And I would, if I had nugget, it was withnothing and it was just plain because
it, that's the only way it tasted good.
Which is looking back now, like,I'm like, oh, that's weird.
Yeah, no, no dippingsauces at all like that.

(01:12:35):
Toothpaste was too strong, so I had touse like kids' toothpaste for a while.
Because that was.
It was, it's, it would burn my mouth.
But yeah, there, there's a lotof stuff that people go through.
And I mean, I, I, I like to tell peopleabout my story with, on like how I, I I
advocated for myself and got through itthat my, my husband was so supportive.

(01:12:59):
Not everyone has thattype of support system.
Mm-hmm.
I was
lucky to have that support system.
But I, sometimes I even look at it andI'm like, well, it really wasn't like a
serious cancer, but I mean, it was cancer.
Like Yeah,
that does, I mean, that doesn't compute.
Yeah.
Like, it, it, it's, I mean, because,and I say that especially women who are

(01:13:22):
diagnosed with more serious versions ofcancer, like breast cancer and, and stuff,
and ovarian cancer, things like that.
Like the, it.
They go through a lot of stuff that,I mean, it, it does kind of feel
like, well, I was, I did chemo for twomonths and some people do it for years.
Yeah.
And so, like, I really didn't, like,mine was a really, wasn't that bad.

(01:13:45):
But it's still, you look at it andyou're like, but it, it was still cancer.
Yeah.
So, but, but the type of cancer had thenon-Hodgkin's lymphoma from what the.
The oncologist told me that that is, it'snot a genetic condition that causes that,
but you can have, if you have a geneticmutation and it gets exposed to specific

(01:14:05):
types of chemicals it can do that.
And some others in my family have hadthat exact same type of cancer, so I
would assume we have the genetic mutationand who knows what kind of chemical.
I was just gonna, that'swhere I was going next.
I was just like, wait a minute.
Where do I know you're, you're Oriare you originally from Indiana?
Yes, Southern Indiana.
Yeah.
Right across from Louisville.

(01:14:26):
Yeah.
It's in the water there.
No, I'm kidding.
I mean, I, I still live there inSouthern Indiana, but I gotcha.
This yeah, it, it, Idon't, I don't, who knows?
It could have been anything.
Especially with nowadays, likeyou just never know what it was.
And the, my current oncologist thinks thathe's, he, he's pretty much said he doesn't
think it'll come back, even though I'mobviously still terrified that it will.

(01:14:49):
And
yeah.
I think anyone who experiencessomething like that will always
have that in the back of their mind.
Yeah.
Like, is gonna come back.
But well, hey, just like youdid before, stay on top of it.
Right?
Yeah.
That's, that's all you can do.
And advocate for yourselfeven when others won't listen.
Yeah.
Only thing you can do.
Well.
Very good.
Hey, look, I'm so glad that you're better.

(01:15:10):
And we had a chance to catch up and,and talk today and, and whatnot.
I guess just I guess one thing Ididn't talk, talk to you about that.
Maybe just on a lighter note, you, youobviously live outside of Louisville.
Are, are you and your husband bourbondrinkers or is like bourbon overrated?
No.
So my husband does, he is, does not drink.

(01:15:32):
Yeah.
I, I will drink bourbon, but Iprefer a really good red wine.
Especially they're some, some of the redwines that are made here, they age them in
bourbon barrels and those are fantastic.
Yeah.
We were, yeah, we were, we were actually,my wife and I were just in Louisville
for a, a couple getaway back in August.

(01:15:55):
So we really enjoyed, we did, ofcourse we did the bourbon thing,
but we did, we did enjoy somewine and some different, different
aspects of, of Louisville as well.
So, yeah.
So it's not just bourbonis what you're telling us.
Oh, no.
There's some, some really greatwineries around here as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But the bourbon obviouslyis it's the best.

(01:16:16):
Yeah.
That's, that's what we'reknown for in the region.
But Louisville has really becomealmost like a foodie place now.
Yeah.
Where it's like some of therestaurants here are like, so good.
We really enjoyed our time.
We were there just a couple of days,but we really enjoyed our time there.
Yeah.
I mean I really enjoy living in theregion and the area it's changed a lot

(01:16:37):
over the last, I mean, I, I mean I'velived here my entire life, so, but
even from this time I started at LNPD,it's changed a lot just at, in a lot
more I guess kind of touristy stuff.
Mm-hmm.
But like, again, the food, they, likesome of the, the chefs around here have
really like u their game with food.

(01:17:00):
Nice.
So, yeah.
And then again, the red winein bourbon barrels is just
whoever decided to do that.
They did a really great thing.
Yeah.
Alright.
That sounds weird, but yeah.
Very good.
All right, well our last segmentof the show is Words to the
World, and this is where you canpromote any idea that you wish.

(01:17:21):
Jennifer, what are yourwords to the world?
. So absolutely advocate for yourself,not only medically, but just in general.
And , another thing that I would reallylike to say is to give other people grace.
I have a hard time giving myselfgrace for things 'cause i'm
very hard on myself for things.
And I sometimes I forget that I need notonly give myself grace, but other people.

(01:17:46):
And I think giving other peoplegrace I think is something that is
really necessary and something alot of people don't think about.
Well, very good.
While I leave every guest with, you'vegiven me just enough to talk bad
about you later, but I do appreciateyou being on the show, Jennifer.
Thank you so much and you be safe.
Thank you.
You too.
Thank you for making it tothe end of another episode of

(01:18:08):
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
You can show your support by sharingthis and other episodes found
on our website@wwwpodcasts.com.
If you have a topic you would like us tocover or have a suggestion for our next.
Please send us an email atElliot podcasts@gmail.com.
Till next time, analysts keep talking.

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Analyst Talk - Jennifer Corum - The Grateful Analyst

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Analyst Talk - Jennifer Corum - The Grateful Analyst