Analyst Talk - Steve Walter - Rooted in Oceanside with Longevity and Leadership - Leapodcasts

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.

(00:01):
It's like coffee with an analyst,or it could be whiskey with an
analyst reading a spreadsheet,linking crime events, identifying a
series, and getting the latest scoopon association news and training.
So please don't beat that analystand join us as we define the law
enforcement analysis profession.
One episode at time.
Thank you for joining me.
I hope many aspects ofyour life are progressing.
My name is Jason Elder and today ourguest has 22 years of law enforcement

(00:26):
analysis experience all with theOceanside Police Department in California.
He's currently a crimeand intelligence manager.
He holds a certificate in crimeand intelligence analysis.
He holds a master's of art in contemporaryBritish history from the University
of London, and he is also a formerpresident of the San Diego Crime and

(00:48):
Intelligence Analysis Association.
Please welcome Steve Walter.
Steve, how are we doing?
We're
doing good.
Thanks very much, Jason.
That was a rousing introduction.
I know, I know.
I think I did that withoutmaking any mistakes.
How about that?
Oh, it's awesome.
So I was, looking at your resume Iwas thinking about this interview.

(01:09):
We did the prep call yesterdayand we were trying to figure out.
How long it's been since we talked and Iwas like, you know what, it's probably 10
years and I see on your resume here thatyou have Bellevue, Washington for IACA in
2014, and that's probably the last timewe were in the same vicinity together.
Yeah, I think that's a really good guess.

(01:30):
I
knew it had been a while.
Oh, geez.
So, yeah, so obviously time has, passed usby a little bit as, as we've talked last.
So I am really looking forward.
Yeah.
Like I need another
reminder.
Yeah.
But I am looking to hear your, your story.
We've certainly have oldconnection at IACA conferences, but
i'm looking forward to hearingyour story and actually what you've

(01:52):
been up to for the last 10 years.
Yeah, well, I'll tell you what,it's just to hear that the last IACA
conference 2014 just tells me that Ijust don't get the chance to connect
with the analyst community as often asI used to in the ways that I used to.
So this is actually fun for me.
This is a treat to get to talk to youand to think about who might be on the

(02:14):
listening end and where they're at intheir careers and, and be able to just
exclusively talk about analyst stuff.
So I'm looking forward to it.
All right, so let's hear your story.
How did you discover the lawenforcement analysis profession?
Well, I can, tell you that, andI typically tell people when they
ask this question that I completelystumbled into a law enforcement career.
I never had any ambitions of workingin a police department growing up.

(02:38):
It was not something thatI thought I would do.
I think what led to it was when I did goover to London to do a master's degree.
At the time I, I, I really just wantedto go to London, live in London.
I'd been there as a undergrad student.
I said, if I'm ever gonna do a graduatedegree, I'm gonna go to London.
And so I said, what should I study?

(02:58):
Contemporary British history, of course.
And I loved every minute of it.
And it was a ton of fun.
But I didn't know what I was gonna dowith that degree even as I was over there.
And I was there.
I started that in 1999 through2001 and Oh, yeah, while I
was there, nine 11 happened.

(03:19):
Mm-hmm.
And that was definitely aa pivotal, profound moment.
It was really life changing to be overseaswhen something like that was happening,
to be able to witness how the rest ofthe world saw America at that time.
And it got me thinking like, well,what can I do in this moment to be.
A part of whatever it is weneed to do going forward.

(03:41):
And I realized that my degree wasreally gonna lend itself well to
a career in intelligence analysis.
That was contemporary Britishhistory for me was much like a
foreign affairs type of degree.
I was learning a lot about governmentand international relations, so
it seemed like it was a good fit.
Plus I was learning how to doresearch, how to give presentations.

(04:04):
So at the time while I wasthere, I actually applied for
a job at an organization inLondon that no longer exists.
It was called the, if I remember right,it was called the National Intelligence.
Service, which was kind of likea Interpol, but only for the uk.
Mm-hmm.
And I went down, I still remember whenI went down to interview, what was cool

(04:28):
was the building I showed up at wasadjacent to the big MI six building.
And I was, I mean, I waslike, this is pretty cool.
Here I am, I'm going in likeI'm gonna see James Bond as I'm
walking in from my job interview.
And I sat down and Ilistened to the questions.
And I realized I clearly hadno business being there at all.
I didn't get the job, of course,but I was totally intrigued.

(04:49):
I was like, well, what do I need to learnto get here to do something like this?
So the other thing that was happeningat the time was I was my wife and
I, we stretched out our Londonexperience as much as possible,
but we were running outta money.
We both had jobs.
I was actually working for an outfitcalled The History of Parliament,
which was actually it was a it waslike working for, for Parliament,

(05:12):
doing historical research.
And I knew I didn't want to dothat and it wasn't paying anything.
So we, we were like we gottacome back to the states.
And so during that transition, Idiscovered that there was a program
being taught in, in Californiacalled the Crime Analysis and
Intelligence Certificate Program.
So I flew back and I ended up inSteve Gottlieb's classroom learning

(05:35):
the, ABCs of Crime analysis.
And I, I think even then Ikind of pictured myself maybe
working for the FBI or the CIA.
Mm-hmm.
But I was kind of getting a crash coursein police work at the same time, and
I thought maybe I can do this too.
And as that was happening ajob opened up here in Oceanside
for a crime analyst position.

(05:56):
I applied and one thing led to another.
Like I said, we'd run outtamoney and I needed a job.
Yeah.
So kind of to fast forward in the story,I showed up for the job interview here
in o in, in Oceanside and thinkinglike this would be like a plug and
play analyst position that I couldmaybe kind of get my feet wet with.
And they looked at me and they said,well, we've actually never had a

(06:19):
crime analyst here and we need someoneto build a crime analysis program.
And I, in my head.
I was like, oh my God.
Like, well, I'm definitely not your guy.
I have no idea how youwould even start to do that.
But what I said wasabsolutely I'll, I'll take it.
I can do this.
And next thing I know, I had the job.
So they hired me and I, came toOceanside with the task of trying

(06:42):
to build a crime analysis program.
Oh
man.
Yeah.
Fake
it till you make it.
That is yes, absolutely.
The way you would describe
it.
I do wanna go on with Oceanside, but Ihave two questions before we leave London.
I. So my, ignorant American questionis, when you worked for Parliament,
did you have to wear a wick?
I

(07:02):
did not have to wear a wick.
But man, have, have you ever seenlike a film where there's some really
stuffy British library where likethe smallest noise echoes through
the chambers of the stacks of books?
Yeah.
That was essentially like the environmentI worked in , I had these huge
binders that were full of historicalrecords for the House of Lords that

(07:26):
were written in, like calligraphy.
And my job at the time was I had toread these things and then I had to
enter, transcribe the informationinto a Microsoft Access database.
Oh, wow.
So that was, that was one of my, mythings when I, when I showed up to
take an analyst job, I was like, I dohave experience with Microsoft Access.

(07:47):
Oh man.
And, but it was so
boring.
It was so, it was brutally, brutallyboring, , the task itself was boring,
but it was pretty cool to get apaycheck and get that little symbol
of Parliament on it and be like,yeah, I'm working on the, in the inner
circles of the British government.
My other question, this is more,on the personal side of things.
Is there a, favorite spot or afavorite food or something that you

(08:09):
miss from your time there in London?
Oh, man, that's a really good questionbecause there are so many that I
could probably sit here and reel off.
But I think if, if there's one thing I'vealways missed about London when I had
this job, I would, I remember when itwould start to get to summer and the, I.
The evenings would stay lighter later.

(08:31):
The sun didn't go down till like 10o'clock it felt like, and you'd get
off work and I would walk, I, insteadof taking any transportation, I
would walk from my office all the waydown to the river and I might stop
in a pub, grab a pint, who knows?
And I would, I would get tothe river and often my wife
was there with me at the time.
And, and we would coordinate this andit's not like today where you just

(08:53):
would text somebody, meet me here.
We, we would like say, okay,six o'clock we're gonna meet
on the South Bank after work.
And, and she would walk from herwork and I would walk from mine and
we'd walk down there and I'd walkover the bridge across the river.
And often there might be like a a concertgoing on on the South Bank or just people.
Out and about sitting on the riverand, and, and if I could transport

(09:16):
myself and do that on any given givenevening, that's what I would do.
Nice.
Good answer.
All right.
Let's talk about youstarting at Oceanside.
So it's 2003 , as you mentioned,you were influenced by nine 11.
You, you get this position,you're, you're at the moment.
You're faking it.
You're walking in, you're walkingin for the first time to the office.

(09:37):
Just talk about thosefirst couple of weeks
I can tell you that I can, I, I definitelyremember my first day on the job.
Mm-hmm.
So I showed up and at the time theperson that hired me and was my first
boss was our investigations lieutenant.
So I walk inside, they'd given me mybadge or whatever to be able to get in
the building, and I go down to her officeand she sees me and she says, oh, you've

(10:02):
picked a really great day for a first day.
She says, we just she's chipper, right?
She says, we just hada homicide last night.
Hop in my car.
So I'm like, okay, well here we go.
So next thing we're rolling out to ahomicide scene we get there it was out, it
was in a park outside of a bathroom, and.
The, the deceased had been takenaway by that time, but there's

(10:22):
still blood on the, on the sidewalk.
Here I am, we're walking aroundand she says, oh, by the way, we,
we still haven't found a murderweapon, so keep your eyes peeled.
And I'm like, we haven't found a murder.
Keep my eyes peeled.
I said, I'm more likely to destroyevidence than recognize it.
My God.
Like, what am I doing?
But , that was a moment whereeverything became very real, very fast.

(10:44):
Like I just looking at the spotand going, somebody just got.
Murdered here.
This is not a TV show.
What have I gotten myself into?
And you just don't forget those moments.
I mean, it's so vivid.
I can look back and I can justsee everything about that day.
And I think we went from there.
We went of course to lunch and that'swhen I learned that detectives,

(11:04):
when you're detective, you go havelunch at like 10 30 in the morning.
And so yeah, we went to her favoriteMexican restaurant and I did my best
to eat like a full plate of enchiladas.
And that was my first day.
You're like, they're like, Hey,is it, is the, is analyst coming
back tomorrow or you think they,there's probably bets going on.
Like, Hey, who, who's,who's kind of coming back?

(11:25):
Who, what's the odds?
No, actually it was, itwas, I was in, I was like.
I'm all in.
Like, this is cool.
It just like let me like comealong on a, to a, a murder scene.
I'm like, I'm, I'm definitely gonnastick around and see what happens next.
Now they're gonna actuallylet me do real police work.
This is, this is crazy.
So that, that was a hook for me.
I was, I was definitelyexcited about my first day.

(11:48):
Yeah.
So then talk about getting into thatanalyst role they've never had an
analyst and you've never been an analyst.
So just talk about how the growingpains of getting the unit developed.
So yeah, you, I can imagine that this isthe part of the story that if you have
people on the show, we share a lot ofthe same parts of this story, which is

(12:09):
people hire an analyst, they want you to.
Produce Intel products or crime analysisproducts, and then you're stuck as
being the person to figure out howto get the information because either
the RMS system is terrible, or in ourcase, we didn't even have an RMS system
I'm told, I'm asking, so how can Iget access to, or read crime reports?

(12:32):
And they're like, well, you know.
It has to get approved and then it'sgonna get signed by this person.
It's gonna go on a little cart, andthen it'll come over and then you're
gonna get this you'll be able to reada report like two or three days later.
And I'm at the same time, I've got,I've got like captains and lieutenants
that are, they're all excited thatthey have an analyst and they're
like, Hey can you tell me like howmany burglaries we had yesterday?

(12:54):
And I'm like, I, how amI supposed to do that?
That seems impossible.
So there was definitely some panickymoments where the expectations for
what I could deliver were a completemismatch for what it was I was
able to provide based on what I hadaccess to, what I had yet to learn.
All of those things typical challengesand that I think that was an important

(13:17):
moment because it taught me that youcan't wait around for somebody to.
Give you the answer, you have to besuper creative with how you find it.
In my case, I ended up leaningon a program that we had
that accessed our CAD system.
That allowed me to, even if Icouldn't read the crime report, at
least I can see the CAD and I cansee the, the calls for service.

(13:38):
I can see the dispatch commentsand I can understand like, what
actually is going on out there.
And then I would use that to populatea spreadsheet or whatever it is.
Do you remember the name of
the program?
Well, initially it wasa, an access database.
Mm-hmm.
That I was using that we had a kind ofa brainy lieutenant that had built it.
And, and you look back in these momentsand you're like, Hey, thank God that

(14:00):
person thought, hey, maybe Steve could usethis and, and help me to get me going on
something that would kind of fill a hole.
Yeah.
And then it's actually kindof a cool story from that.
We ended up finding a vendor calledFirst Watch that we still work with
today, that built a program for crimeanalysis based on how we were doing

(14:22):
business getting information out of cad.
And they, they customized this, thisdashboard that every day I'd come in
and I'd use it to try to get an ideaof when and where crime was happening.
And it actually had a mapping featurethat displayed things on a map for me.
We still use that 20 years later.
We, and it hasn't even changed that much.
And my analysts, it's partof their daily re routine.

(14:44):
They come in and they look at thatand that it was a problem solving
moment, but it laid the groundworkfor how we built our program.
Nice.
Nice.
, How long before you'regetting another analyst?
Oh wow.
Well, that was a good, I haveto think it's got a, that had to
be at least three or four years.
Where I was totally by myself.
Yeah.

(15:04):
And that, that, that came about.
It's, it's like, I think if you,in these conversations, sometimes
you can see a common theme isdesperation drives innovation, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, yeah, I, I didn't have anymoney, so I had to take the job.
I didn't have access to data, so wehad to come up with another solution.
And there came a point where Iwas so overwhelmed with work.

(15:27):
I was getting burned out.
I, I, mm-hmm.
I, I mean, I was stressed.
I couldn't, I had so many peopleknocking on my door asking for things.
When you're a single analyst in amedium sized department, and, and all
of a sudden you start to have success.
Mm-hmm.
In the area of crime analysis.
Then everybody wants a piece and it'slike, okay, we need you to do this for
our special investigations division.

(15:49):
We need you to do this for theChief's City council meeting.
We need you to do this because we'vegot a regional burglary series.
And it got to a point.
There's no way one person can handle it.
So, so we had to hire another analyst and.
Truth be told, that's how weended up with a third analyst.
It was the same situation.
It is too much for two people.
We need another one, we need another one.

(16:09):
Which is a good problem to have.
Mm-hmm.
But I think the growing pains in thatare it often for the, the reality for
analysts no matter how big or small youragency is, it's often you have to get to
that desperate situation before peoplestart to support you in growing and adding
people and providing more resources.

(16:30):
Yeah.
You mentioned a medium sized department.
It's back 2009.
Do you remember how many officersyou had at, at Oceanside?
Yeah, we're, and we're just, at that timewe were probably 160 to a hundred and
mm-hmm.
65 officers.
And then we're not much, we haven'tgrown that much more than that.

(16:52):
We're, we're closer to 200 now,but I would say we've always been
around 200 officers with anothera hundred professional staff.
So a department of 300.
Yeah.
And our city is a hundred, so OOceanside is a, is a good sized city.
We're 185,000 people, so we're thethird largest city in San Diego County.
Mm-hmm.
We're sort of that, almost like ahalfway point between LA and San Diego

(17:15):
right on the border of Camp Pendleton.
So it's plenty busy here.
We've always felt like we're a littlebit understaffed, under-resourced,
especially in comparison tosome of our neighboring cities.
Mm-hmm.
But that's always kind of, I guess theflip side is we've, we've always had to
be creative and innovative with how we,we deal with things 'cause we've never
had all the resources that we need.
Yeah.
Now, do you feel that the Oceansidehas the typical crime problems

(17:40):
or is there crime scenarios?
Crime situations that areunique to the police department?
I feel like Oceanside is veryunique and it's what's made it a
really fun place to be an analyst.
As I mentioned, our geographiclocation makes us a crossroads
between two big metropolitanareas being on Camp Pendleton.

(18:00):
The border of Camp Pendleton makesus a military town in a lot of ways.
We are a tourist destination.
We got people coming in.
Our summer population makesus substantially bigger.
We've changed a lot.
When I started, we had a,a significant gang problem.
We, at the time, we had 12 differentdocumented gangs just in Oceanside.

(18:21):
This was all a surprise to me.
I can tell you another story aboutwhen I started, and this will
kind of illustrate the point.
When I showed up, this was, soafter I went to the homicide scene
and then had enchiladas, I wentback to the lieutenant's office.
This was probably the next day, andshe said, have you, have you found
a place to live here in Oceanside?
And I said, yeah.
I said, my wife and I just put a depositdown on an apartment, and it's, it's

(18:45):
only a few blocks from the department.
And it looks really nice.
And it was really cheap.
She says, oh, what's the nameof the apartment complex?
And I tell her, andshe's like, oh, hell no.
You're not living there.
What do you mean?
She says, that's a, shesays, that's a gang area.
She says, the Crips runthat apartment complex.
Oh, man.
I said the, I said, the Crips like,you mean like the Bloods and the Crips?

(19:08):
She's like, yeah.
And in my head I'm thinking,oh, I thought Oceanside was like
surfers and stuff like that.
I'm like, I didn't realizewe had real gangs here.
And so the best part of thisstory is, is, is not that, but
the best part of the story is shesays, get in my car, let's go.
And my lieutenant during work hours,we hopped in her car and we drove

(19:30):
Carlsbad and we looked for apartmentsfree for, for a full afternoon.
We went and stopped in and sawwhat they had available and and,
and she was determined that I wasgonna find a safe place to live.
And I, and I think it's like aI, I owe so much to this person
'cause she gave me a chance.
But you learn a lot through that toowhen you become a supervisor that,

(19:50):
you know those moments when you take apersonal interest in someone's life and
you actually, like, even if it's like,maybe that's not like how we're supposed
to spend our work hours out apartmenthunting, man, I look back on that and
I'm like, how lucky was that, that I hadsomebody that was like get in my car,
let's go find you a good place to live.
So yeah, that was, whatwas the lieutenant's

(20:11):
name?
That was Lieutenant SheilaPotkin, Jack who, actually retired
not long after I had started.
So it was bittersweet becauseI had a really great boss and
then she left me all alone.
Oh man.
Yep.
That's, that happensat police departments.
Either they retire
or they rotate.
Yeah.
Right.
But it seems like you're dealing witha new captain or major regularly, so

(20:35):
Oh yeah.
We're, we are, we'redealing with that now.
It happens.
So we we, we have come to understandthat's the that's part of the process.
Yeah.
And I was just and it's just.
That's such a unique phenomenon,I think with police departments.
I, I, you probably see it in themilitary, but I don't think it's
common practice anywhere else whereyou just have this rotation of

(20:58):
middle management at an organization.
Mm-hmm.
It's not a common practice, right?
You have, you have merging and youhave team building and unit building,
and you have change in terms of thehierarchical structure of an organization.
But this whole idea of like, oh, allright, we're gonna just rotate all these

(21:18):
captains are all these majors right now.
Mm-hmm.
It, I just don't see that happeninganywhere else other than police
department and maybe the military.
No, I think you're right.
And I think it's actually, this isinteresting because it's, I feel like this
is sort of an under-discussed problem.
It's an under-discussed topic andit's, it's actually, personally,

(21:38):
it's one of the things I have thehardest time with because mm-hmm.
As much as I move forward in mycareer, as much as I grow and as
much as I gain responsibility andrespect and all those things, when
you work in a police department.
You have the rotation that you'retalking about and new people come
into your world, you cannot assumethat they understand your job.
And then it's a kind of a brutalreminder that even though you may have

(22:02):
been in your spot for 10, 15, even 20years, somebody's gonna come in there
and you have to go back and you haveto start with crime analysis 1 0 1,
and you have to say, here's what we do.
Here's how we work, here's what we'vetried, here's what doesn't work.
And.
You have to kind of getthem on the same page.
You gotta get them on board.
You gotta get them to understand.

(22:23):
You have to train them,you have to train them.
Actually, it's a, it's a hugelift to educate that people
that way because that's the key.
That's the, that's, that's the key thathaving a successful program is you gotta
have everybody engaged and involved.
You gotta have buy-in and, you may justassume, like, yeah, I think everybody
here gets it, but you're gonna havepeople that come along that absolutely

(22:45):
do not get it because you could callit tunnel vision, but I think it's more
like just the, the culture of policework is that you focus on your area.
Because if you try to focus onevery, everything, it's too much.
It's, it's, we do too many things.
We wear too many hats.
So when I'm a school sergeant,I'm focused on schools.
When I'm when I'm a narcoticsdetective, that's my world.

(23:07):
We have to collaborate andoverlap and learn things and
understand what people do.
But you only have somuch space in your brain.
So sometimes it's inevitable.
You're gonna get somebody that'slike, Hey, I know you guys have
been over here for years, but Idon't really know what you guys do.
Just gonna happen.
Yeah.
So,
so when do you become manager?
I only actually got the title of manager.

(23:28):
Recently.
So but I would say I've been a managerfor years and, and when I changed my
title, and these are, that's one ofthose administrative things like, like,
Hey, you think maybe we should changethe title of this position because
I'm doing a lot of management stuff.
And they're like, oh, you'renot a manager already.
Like,
yeah.
So, so that finally got done.
But I would, and I, and I actually, whenwe went through that process, I went

(23:52):
back to I would say it was probably,gosh, it's gotta be like eight maybe.
Maybe seven years ago, we had a verydynamic chief who's now retired chief
Fred Armijo, who came into the position.
And it was a situation wherepeople were really glad about it.
We had a chief that was gonna come in.
He had a, a great rapport with everybody.

(24:14):
He had great ideas.
He wanted to implement new things.
And he really looked at me andsaid you are part of this team.
I've considered you a manager for years.
My expectation is that I'mgonna give you management work.
You're gonna be, you're gonnahave a seat at the table.
And sometimes, like it takes a whileto get get that official stamp.
Mm-hmm.

(24:34):
But.
Sometimes all it takes is to have theright person in charge that understands
your value, to be able to as ananalyst kind of rise to that level.
So that, that's what I, if you were toask me how long I've been a manager.
A manager, it's since then.
Yeah.
So I guess going back to when youunofficially became a manager and
started taking on more of the managerroles, was that a difficult transition

(24:58):
for you to go from analyst to manager?
I think it was, yeah, it was.
Now that you say that, I haven'tthought about that in a while, but I'll
tell you what the difficult part was.
The difficult part was letting go ofdoing the things I really loved, and
that's like the investigative stuff.
So w working on the, homicide casesand going to the meetings that are.

(25:19):
Maybe it's like related to somekind of special op or motorcycle
gangs or like something cool.
I, I still, I refuse to give it all up.
I still try to keep myhands a little bit dirty.
Like I really, I've beentrying to learn lately.
I'm working at.
Genetic genealogy case, which I'mslowly kind of gaining some ground on.

(25:41):
So, I never wanna give, give itall up, but there was a hard thing
where , I'm getting asked to dostuff that is not the most fun.
I recognize that it'simportant, but it was difficult.
Like, man, I miss the dayswhen I got to be an analyst.
I miss those days when I couldjust come in and nobody was
calling me with emergenciesrelated to personnel or time cards.

(26:02):
I can come in and if it was an emergency,it was like, Hey, like we gotta, we got
a suspect that we gotta find that's,that's the kind of emergency I liked.
Yeah.
So I missed that.
Yeah.
So we, we were talking briefly,before we hit record here, and
you had mentioned , you have apretty interesting hiring record.
There at the department.
Is it, so you mentioned that everybodythat you hired has not, never left.

(26:24):
That is true, yes.
We currently have grown tohave three full-time analysts.
We also now have a digitalforensics analyst as a part of a
newer digital forensics program.
We are probably.
Gonna look on expanding evenfurther with the deployment
of a real-time crime center.

(26:45):
But I do, I, I'm proud of thefact that, yeah, we, we do have a
strong record for bringing peoplein and having them stay here.
So we are both of our, our other twoanalysts have been here for over 15 years.
Nice.
So they have a ton ofexperience, a ton of respect.
And I think the best part, part of thatis they still work as hard as ever.

(27:06):
So they still it, it's really, the timingof that question is really interesting
because yesterday they run their ownshows they, they know what they're doing.
I do not have to manage them too closely.
Their work product is reliable andthey, they've been around long enough to
know when they need to come to see me.
But I sat down with my team yesterdaybecause we're all getting so busy that

(27:29):
it's easy to take your eye off the ball.
And I actually had to have a meetingwhere I said, Hey guys, I think
we have to figure out how to getour eyeballs back on crime trends.
We're getting so many.
Our way, we're, we're asked todevelop a real time crime center.
We're dealing with intel responsibilitiesrelated to protests, whatever it might be.

(27:50):
We have got a lot of things thatpeople are asking for, but I think
we have to actually get back to, I.Making sure that we're keeping track
of crime series and crime patterns,and even if it's just a commercial
burglary and how can we do that?
And it was a great conversation.
It was constructive and it waslike a reminder like, Hey, let's
not forget what our job is.
But the thing about that is it's,it's just, it's, I was kind of a wow

(28:11):
moment in the sense you can, you canbe in a place for a really long time.
You can have the most experiencedanalyst, and sometimes you just need
to like sit down and touch base andkind of say to each other, Hey, how
do we, how do we do our jobs better?
We're not perfect.
We're still trying to solve a lotof the same problems that we've
always been trying to solve.

(28:32):
And I think our answers getbetter and better, but even now we
still haven't figured it all out.
Hmm.
So I gotta ask, what is your secret?
Hiring because that's, as I said,that's pretty impressive that you have
such a, that everybody that you'vehired is still with the department.
Do you have a certain philosophyor is there something that

(28:55):
you look for when hiring?
Well, I don't think it's
like a hiring approach because
mm-hmm.
In our city, a lot of the hiringtasks are delegated to human
resources and we feel like we don'thave enough involvement in it.
That's always like, Hey, who do we get totalk to today as that we're gonna hire?
But so I would say thatit has a lot more to do.

(29:16):
With our department, if I was to talkabout what we've done right in building
a crime analysis program the foundationwe laid for success was to try to
do as much as possible to make ourprogram as collaborative as possible.
So to make it a two way street insteadof a one way street, to not overload

(29:37):
our analysts with here's a request,here's your information, but okay.
If there's a problem happening thatour neighborhood police team can deal
with, how can the analyst providesomething to be used in the field?
And then how can those copscome back into our office?
Tell us what they found and how canthey make our product even better

(29:59):
by bringing information back.
So we've always tried to do that.
We've always tried to make sure that inour investigations division, that our,
our analysts have a front row seat.
Currently both of our analysts sit indetective base, so they're parts a part
of the eyes and ears in relation toinvestigations as they're unfolding.

(30:19):
And I think it's super importantto have a setup where your analyst
is among the first to know and notalways the last to know, because
that is not gonna sustain itself.
Your analyst is gonna get.
Completely burned out andthat's why they're gonna leave.
They're gonna leave.
If they say, you know what?
I worked my butt off and I nevergot the respect I deserved.

(30:40):
I work so hard, I give all these peopleuseful intel and then they don't even
tell me when they've made an arrest.
Those are the things that cause peopleto leave police departments and go
look for jobs in the private sector.
You know.
Nobody stays in this job for the pay.
My, people, they havenot stayed for the pay.
I can tell you that they've stayed becausethey get to be a part of something.

(31:02):
They stayed because they have aton of respect from their peers.
They, stayed because ifthere's a murder, if.
my Crimes of Violence analyst getsa phone call hey can you come in?
Can you help us with this?
We got a situation.
If we have a critical situation inthe city, we've got some kind of a,
a political situation, our analystsare a part of the conversation so that

(31:23):
we don't have someone else making adecision of here's what you're gonna do.
Mm-hmm.
We're invited into the processsaying, Hey, what can we do?
What can we do together?
Well, I can, I can helpwith this, I can do this.
Great.
And then if we are fortunateenough to find success they
don't always get the recognition.
I'm, I could tell you thatthey don't that's, that's true.
But they do go home at night knowingthat they were a part of the solution.

(31:47):
Hmm.
Now is that, do you thinkthat's the reason you stayed?
I mean, obviously you'vebeen there 20 years.
You, there's certainly had to be other.
Opportunities either at a differentpolice department or as you
mentioned, the private sector.
Yeah, I would say that's a, that's abig reason that I stayed is it almost
sounds corny to say, yeah, it's thepeople, they're like family like mm-hmm.

(32:09):
You hear that from, from peoplewho stay in one place a long time.
But the fact of the matter is, it's true.
I mean, I've made the best friendsthat I have in the world I've made
in this department there are a lotof people that have now retired that
I'm very close with and I feel likeI'm like the last holdout almost.
I'm still here.
You're lucky.

(32:29):
So, yeah.
What are you, what areyou still doing there?
So, and it's, it's true though.
The, those kinds of things, theyreally do, I think, make the difference
when it comes to those decisions.
Like, yes, I could go somewhereand make a little bit more money.
Yes, I could go somewhere and maybe my, I.
My LinkedIn page wouldlook a little cooler.
Like I, for sure, and, and don'tthink I haven't thought about it.

(32:52):
I've actually, I, I'llcome out and say it.
I've applied for jobs, I've gottenburned out and said, I don't
know if I can do this anymore.
But then when you pursuethose, I. Those other options.
And then you take a look at whatyou have and you and I think
about the situation I have here.
I think first and foremost, Icould never go to another police
department and have what I have here.

(33:13):
I mean, you talk about when I wasgiven the title of manager, yes,
the title was is is on my name tag.
But the truth of the matter is ittook a long time to, to work my way
up, to gain the respect, to gainthe trust, to to be a part of things
that are happening in this city.
And I think that's the exciting thingin my career now, is I'm not just

(33:36):
working from the analyst office.
I'm a part of a team.
We have a brand new chief, we'vegot a, a fairly new assistant chief,
we've got a whole fleet of newlieutenants, and these are my peers.
We have kind of been in the trenchestogether and now there's an approach
that it's an exciting time in Oceanside.
I mean, if you're out there andyou're like, this guy sounds like a
commercial for come visit Oceanside.

(33:58):
It's, it's actually true.
I mean, this city is so different.
I used to never go to the beachhere because I was like, I'm not
gonna be caught dead out there now.
Now it's a, we got I was at a, a, agala event with my wife last weekend
at the Seabird Hotel with a view of thepier, and this is a different place.
This is actually a really nice placeto be and I take a lot of pride.

(34:19):
And being a small part of that andseeing a change in a community and a
town and that it's a safer place to be,that it's a nicer place to spend time
that you can take your family downtown.
I love going down to the harbor.
I've always loved like taking apaddleboard out there, going fishing.
So I've grown to love where I live,but I'm proud of the fact that I'm a

(34:41):
part of the change that's happened andit's made me really glad that I stayed.
I mean, I kind of think about likeTony Gwen only played with one team.
He played with the Padres, but man,thank God that he did like you're
as a baseball fan, you're like,that would've been terrible if he'd
gone and played for another team.
Because look at how valuablehe was in this town and what.

(35:04):
Means to I'm sure his family mm-hmm.
That he was a part of something thathappened and like I'm definitely
like, I definitely don't havea swing like Tony Gwen, but I
kind of think of the same thing.
Like when I look back on mycareer, I'm gonna have no regrets.
I'm gonna be glad thatI, that I stuck it out.
I stuck it out through some hard times,and I'm gonna be proud of the fact that

(35:25):
I was able, actually, it was a benefit.
It was a, it was a privilege tostay in one place that that's
how I'm gonna look at it.
Hi, this is Carolyn Cassidy and I'dlike to give some information to you.
We've all watched shows on TV wheresomeone comes home and there's been
a break in, their house is disrupted,and possibly items have been stolen.

(35:50):
Someone gets on the phoneand call nine one one help.
Please come.
I've been robbed.
Okay, let's clarify this.
You have not been robbed.
You have been fur gold.
A robbery is a person to person crime.
A burglary is a property crime.
If you are not home, when someonecomes in and takes something
from you, you have been burgled.
There has not been a robbery.

(36:12):
Hashtag.
You were burgled, not robbed.
So this is Sam and I wanna let you knowthat it's okay to talk to strangers,
obviously not if you are four or ifyou're walking alone at night or in
the woods, but in general, if you'rejust out in your day-to-day life or

(36:32):
you're traveling or whatever, talkto somebody, talk to strangers.
It makes you a more interestingperson because it gives you
more perspective on life.
Everyone is walking aroundwith an interesting story.
So many people willdefy your expectations.
When you, uh, you see someone andyou make certain assumptions about
them, whether they're consciousor unconscious, I love the moment

(36:55):
when you realize you were wrong.
It's a great feeling and uh, I thinkit makes your life richer in general.
You know, if you're too shy, thenmaybe just read Humans of New York.
That might help you to, to understandother people's experiences.
But I'm just here to saydon't not talk to strangers.

(37:19):
Well, let's move on to youranalyst badge story then.
And for those that maybe knew thisshow, the analyst badge story is the cr
defining case or project that's you work.
And it's a little bit ofa transition, I realize.
Just a, a nice pumped up speech thatyou just gave of Overtron side, but it's
your analyst badge story deals with it's2020 and your department's dealing with.

(37:42):
The George Floyd protests.
Yes.
I think that's a, it's a good time fora segue into this when you're talking
about how communities change and howthere are pivotal moments that kind
of set the course for what directiona police department is gonna go and
what a community and their relationswith that community is gonna look like.

(38:02):
And when you asked me this question,I immediately thought of, of 2020.
It's during COVID and we're seeinga situation develop in response
to the George Floyd incident.
And protests are basicallystarting to sweep.
Across the country.
Mm-hmm.
And we knew at the time that it wasmore than just a few protests that

(38:23):
it was really a movement that wasdeveloping and we knew it was gonna
affect us, it was gonna touch us.
We didn't know what thatwas gonna look like.
And you started to see protests inthe bigger cities we started to see
indications that people locally weregonna start to organize their own events.
Even though we saw, saw some thingscoming, I don't think we were
really expecting quite what we saw.

(38:43):
I, we probably had our, our first protest,probably we had who knows, 35, 40, 50
people gather outside city hall and.
We kept an eye on it, butwe didn't have any issues.
And we probably thought, oh,good, we got through that.
Well, we didn't know at the time.
We were just getting started.
And I, I still remember at that time Ithink I ended up working 14 days in a

(39:06):
row because of how everything kicked offand how everything grew and got bigger.
And I was working closely at the timewith our investigations Lieutenant,
who's now , our chief chief Aldino.
And it was our job to try to doour best to figure out what we were
dealing with, how were we gonnadeploy resources to manage this.

(39:29):
And I think most important of all, andthis is kind of why I think of it as a
badge moment, was there was a decisionthat was gonna be made in terms of how we
were gonna approach it, how are we gonnahandle it, how are we gonna respond to
it, and what that was gonna look like.
There was two approaches you could take.
You could show up with your,your riot team, and we call
that our mobile field force.

(39:49):
You can make, draw a firm line.
You can lay down the law and you canshow people whose boss or you can do
your best to understand where peoplemight be coming from, even if it's
targeted at you as a police department.
And you can do your best to minimizeor diffuse, I guess is a better word,
diffuse any conflicts or tense situations.

(40:12):
I think most importantly is you candecide how that's gonna be received
and what that's going to looklike and how that's gonna reflect.
On your police department.
And we decided that a best approach wasto do whatever we could to engage with
the community, do whatever we couldto understand people's motivations

(40:33):
and most of all , in that moment,I think we understood that there
was an important decision to makeand it was how can we handle this
situation to minimize and diffuse anyconflicts any problem but more than
anything, how can we keep people safe?
That was the number one job.
I think that was the most importantthing that we recognized in that moment

(40:54):
was at the end of the day, no matterhow you felt about the arguments and
the positions and the stance thatpeople were taking, what was our job?
Our job is to keep people safe.
Mm-hmm.
So in order to do that, the thing thatwe had to have in place was we had
to have intel ahead of the protests.
And the reason that this is my badgemoment is because this is where all the
work over the previous 15 years paid off.

(41:17):
We had developed a program wherewe had a seat at the table where.
People trusted our analystswhere we knew how to network
with other outside agencies.
We knew what our jobs would bewhen this moment came around.
We didn't have to try to panic andfigure out, well, yeah, we gotta
come up with a response, by the way.

(41:38):
We're gonna need to find somebodyto watch social media, to tell us
who our organizers are, how manypeople we're gonna have at a protest.
So we already had that in placeand we just jumped into our roles.
I really feel like we came out of thatwhole year, that whole situation on top.
The moment I remember most of all was oneof our larger protests was kicking off.

(41:59):
And in this particular protest,it was unplanned, but the, the,
the protesters decided to march.
So they left their spot andthey started to parade down
coast Highway through Oceanside.
And it was probably well over 500 people,probably closer to 800, a thousand
people are marching through the streets.
So obviously you suddenly have trafficconcerns, you've got safety concerns,

(42:22):
this is another one of those momentswhere, well, how do you handle it?
Well, this was not planned, but next thingI know, our motor officers are basically
providing a police escort down the street.
It was incredible, the look and seepeople that were holding signs that were
full of profanity, that were blasting,police departments are receiving
a police escort to keep them safe.

(42:42):
And I felt like that was themoment where we rose above.
We said, we're gonna focus on our jobs.
We're not gonna let politicsor our personal opinions get in
in the way of what we're doing.
The community saw it.
The microscope was on us.
Everybody was watching, and we knew that.
And it really changed the narrativeto we're not protesting Oceanside

(43:03):
PD necessarily, but we wantto talk about police reforms.
And on the heels of that, we had people inplace that said, okay, well you know what?
How about after the protests, we sitdown at the table, let's get some,
let's sit down and, and talk about this.
And because maybe we can admitthat maybe we're not perfect.
Maybe there's some things that wecan change in policing and we can do
better, but we're willing to listen.

(43:24):
But we recognize that, that there's atime that people may wanna get their
voice out there, but there's also.
A way to, to handle it so that wecan turn it into a positive, we
can build bonds with the community.
We can turn a negative into a positive.
And I really feel like we did that in thatmoment, and I got to be a part of that.
And that's my badge moment.
Yeah.
I, I think it's interesting that theanalyst role in this story, if you're

(43:49):
in a situation where there's a protest,
The role of the analyst in thatsituation may be, okay, we're gonna
be identifying people in the crowd andwe need to know if they're dangerous.
And so the analyst is putting on thehat, identifying people and running
background checks and startingto identify people in the crowd.

(44:09):
And I think that's usually the role thatmay, maybe most people would imagine
an analyst would do in that situation.
I think you're close todescribing what that role is.
I think one thing, and this is thereason that I believe you have to
have a solid foundation going into asituation like this, is you're, you're

(44:30):
doing your best to assess a threat.
Mm-hmm.
You're doing your best to identifyactivists and organizers for the
purpose of keeping them safe.
But you have to remember, you'renot investigating criminals.
It's a very fine line betweenhow you run people and what you
look for and what you dig up.
And it's perfectly fair to approachthis and say, we're gonna do

(44:52):
our best to make sure there'snobody that's gonna be violent.
But if I recognize somebody that's.
Not a threat.
I have to have the ability and theexperience to hand that name over
to one of our officers and say, youknow what, here's somebody that we've
identified, not because we think they'redangerous, but see if you can talk
to this person and give them a callbefore the protest happens, so that if

(45:15):
they need our services, if they feellike something is getting outta hand
during the protest, they can call us.
We still handle that.
The same way we try to get in touchwith organizers and we say, say, Hey,
can we trade cell phone numbers sothat when this event starts you can
call us and we can call you and we justneed to lay down the rules and, and do
your best to keep your people in line.

(45:35):
But we recognize you don'thave control over everything.
And that usually is like a pretty goodway to connect with people because
most of our protest organizers, theyadvertise it as a peaceful protest
that's typical to what happens.
So, but my point is theanalyst role, it's not simple.
It's not for somebody who isn'ttrained on how to do things.
It's not for somebody who doesn't havethe kind of skills and judgment to.

(46:00):
Be a part of a high stakes situation.
That's why I feel the role of theanalyst in this scenario is incredibly
important because you can't justlike pull somebody from another
assignment and tell 'em to do this.
You have to have the people thatare, that understand what the job
is to, to tackle something that'sas complex as a, as like a a threat
assessment related to a protest.

(46:20):
It's a lot more thanjust scanning Facebook.
In my opinion.
Yeah,
that's, well it's funny 'cause I oftensay on this show that I think an analyst
could spend their entire day on socialmedia if that, if they're not careful.
Like that's, yeah.
Yeah.
So sometimes it feels
like that.
It definitely feels like that.
It's definitely the, that's a that'ssomething that's changed from when

(46:42):
I started is is if you're an analystnow, you're expected to have some
pretty slick social media skills.
Yeah.
Well, I think this is a goodsegue into our next segment.
And it's talking about technology,AI programs versus the human analyst.
Oh, yes.
And so you want, and you wanted totouch on this, you have a speaking

(47:04):
engagement coming up left a boom, right?
That's correct, yes., I'm new tothis event, so we'll see how it goes.
But my understanding is I'm gonna be.
Speaking on the topic of AI and technologyinnovations and the need for human
analysts in conjunction with thosethe developments that we're seeing.
So that's where my mind has been lately.

(47:25):
I would say that I really believethis is the issue of the day.
I think what we're seeing happening isfundamentally changing law enforcement.
It's fundamentally changingthe way this work is done.
I think this is more than just a trend.
It's more than just like the latest.
Buzzword ai the AI is, is, iscreeping into everything we do,

(47:47):
but I think the way that it'saffecting police work is profound.
It was a few weeks ago I was invitedout to go to the headquarters of
a very prolific technology maker.
I won't say the name of the company,but it, it rhymes with Saxon
and I show up for this not knowing quiteto what to expect, but, but walking into

(48:11):
the headquarters of this building was,I've been telling people it was like
walking onto the Starship Enterprise.
I swear to God.
You walk in, there's an airlock and aand you step inside, and then you go
in and it's like what do they call it?
What do they call thatin Starship Enterprise?
The, the we're all, we'rewhere Captain Kirk is standing.

(48:31):
The, oh, the, the main, oh geez.
Oh, what is that called?
We need a Star Trek person.
Yeah.
The bridge.
The bridge.
The bridge.
So it, yes, the, the, the whole officeset up is like the bridge, right?
And, and circular balconies,twirl all surrounding the
center area of this office.
And then, and then they take youdownstairs and there's a a basement.

(48:53):
I think we went downstairs that theonly way I can describe this is like
Q'S laboratory on, in a James Bondfilm where there's like scientists
that are testing all these gadgetsand they're firing this and that.
You really feel likeyou're on a movie set.
And and, and then you go back into aroom and you realize that like, not
only are a lot of these products, likefor sale, we're using a lot of 'em

(49:16):
already and they're not going away.
Whether it be AI technology thingsthat are related to drones, realtime
crime centers you name it, it.
It is, this is like a newworld that we're living in.
And it kind of blew my mind.
And the first thing I thought of was,and I, 'cause I'm looking around at, at
chiefs from various departments acrossthe country, and they are they're,

(49:38):
they're writing down their shoppinglist they're thinking about what they're
gonna buy and what they're not gonna buy.
And in the back of my mind I'm like, well,this is some really cool stuff for sure.
There's some interesting things in here,but there's some things I don't know.
I don't know if this is a good idea.
Mm-hmm.
If, how is our communitygonna respond to this one?
Maybe my perspective is a little bitdifferent in Southern California, but

(50:00):
I was kind of asking those questions tomyself, but I think the one thing that
I do see is, and I think people willrecognize this, when you have a lot of
this flashy stuff in front of you, youstart to forget about the, the human
component that's needed to make sure thatthis stuff is being used in the right way.
Whether it's being used responsibly,effectively or, or simply in the

(50:23):
most simplest terms, who's gonna.
Who's gonna manage it, who's gonnasomebody's gotta be at the controls.
Mm-hmm.
So you start to think about the skillsthat an analyst has, and the truth
is, a lot of these things, they,they, they're gonna fall in the laps
of an analyst, especially if they'redeployed in a realtime crime center.
So.
Mm-hmm.
Who do you put in there?

(50:44):
I feel like one of the challengesnow is, is everybody wants
a real time crime center.
We're going to make sure we get.
A big video wall.
We're gonna get super powerful computers,we're gonna have cameras everywhere.
And then the, the last questionis, who do we staff it with?
Well, my opinion, thatshould be the first question.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I don't think it'snecessarily, you don't answer that

(51:05):
by saying, I. It's the crime analyst.
I think you answer it by saying,you gotta make sure you have
the right person in there.
You gotta make sure that youhave person with analyst skills.
I think the challenge for the analyst isnow you're taking a crime analyst or an
Intel analyst, and you're saying, okay,your job is not just to be an analyst.
Now you need to be a detective.
You need to be a dispatcher,you need to be a patrol officer.

(51:27):
Mm-hmm.
Maybe even a drone pilot, who knows?
But you need to be allthose things in one.
And I think there's some huge questionstoo about an analyst that you've worked
for 15 years behind a desk and youyou're good at your job, but you've
seen a lot, you've been through alot, you've been exposed to a lot.
Nobody really realizes how muchyou've actually kind of had to
deal with emotionally, and nowyou're in a real time crime center.

(51:49):
And you just witnessed something horriblehappen on a camera, something that's gonna
stay with you for the rest of your life.
And you were a part of that and you werelistening to the call as it was coming in.
Nobody thought of that.
Oh man.
Like, what are we, you know what, what?
We didn't realize that all thistechnology was gonna change how
people are exposed to crime.
These are important questions that Ithink can be forgotten when you are in the

(52:13):
rush to get the latest and the greatest.
Yeah.
I, the way I feel about this topic is,and this is a topic as, as you and I
have been, been around 20 plus yearssince we started , our first days as
a law enforcement analyst, there'salways been this idea that the computer
is going to replace the analyst.

(52:34):
Mm-hmm.
And we.
You've, you've been hearing thata lot with ai, I think that's
certainly, that drum has gottenlouder it's interesting that, why
does it have to be one or the other?
, Why can't the work together?
Right.
Why, why can't the analysts useAI to leverage what they do?
Bring them both together insteadof having one or the other.

(52:56):
Yeah.
I think it's a really, it's a reallygreat point for a couple reasons.
One of 'em being is it may bea new scenario, but it feels
like an old conversation.
It feels like we've been having thissame conversation for a long time.
I mean, for, I mean, doyou remember, what was it?
What was the oh pre pole, remember?
Pre pole?
Yeah.
Can I say that?
Yeah, it's, that's been awhile since I heard that.

(53:18):
Yes.
Yeah.
Like, okay.
Like, hey, we justrolled out with pre pole.
It's gonna predict whereall the crime happens.
We don't need an analyst anymore.
I've got a little square box on my map.
It's gonna tell me wheremy next robbery happens.
Yeah.
And all of us sitting in the analystchair, were like, good luck with that.
So, you know that, that, and wheredid, what happened with that?
I think that was a, there was a wakeup call at some point where it realized

(53:41):
like, yeah, the map, it's not the map,not it's the, you gotta have somebody,
you, you can't just look at the map.
You gotta have somebody look in the map.
You have to have somebody that'sgonna be able to say, here's
what showed up in the map.
Here's what you need to pay attention to.
Here's what you can forget aboutand here's what this is telling us.
And I really, I mean, I, I was shockedwhen, when I saw that kind of thing.

(54:03):
Play into a conversation of wedon't need the analysts anymore.
I was like, you guys are gonnahave to hire more analysts.
And I think the same the samesituation is true now you're
gonna have to hire more analysts.
I think we just recently visitedIrvine Police Department.
They have a, a, a realtime crimecenter that they've deployed and
it's doing pretty well and they'veput a lot of investment into it.
But the best part of what they've doneis they've invested heavily into their

(54:27):
staffing, their staffing being analysts.
They've got eight analysts thatthey can assign to that room.
For a city the size of, ofIrvine, I think that's fantastic.
I think it's it's forward thinking.
I think it's realistic about theapproach of training people for that job.
Rather than saying, we just need anotherset of eyeballs that can look at cameras.

(54:47):
Like, you gotta have theright people in that chair.
Very good.
Let's talk briefly about the IACA.
'Cause as I told you,that's where we met and.
Well, I just want to get youroverall take on the IACA.
So I'll just, you just open it up.
When I say IACA, what comes to mind
when you say IACA, the InternationalAssociation of Crime Analysts?

(55:10):
What comes to mind?
I would have to say the very first IACAconference that I ever attended was
a very important part of my journeythat takes us back to the very, I.
First days of my job here in Oceanside.
And when I was in that, actually it wasin those first few weeks and months that

(55:30):
I was started to struggle and realized,like I had a lot of things to figure out.
Like I could fake itenough to get the job, but
mm-hmm.
I've got some real problems herethat I don't have answers to.
And luckily they sent me to Seattlefor the IACA conference, and I showed
up at the hotel and I sat down andI recognized right, right away,
Samantha Gwinn, who at the time workedat the San Diego Police Department.

(55:54):
Mm-hmm.
And I go.
Somebody I know, thank God.
Mm-hmm.
And I walked over and she was sitting withCarolyn Cassidy, who both of them are,
are, are still dear friends to this day.
But at the time they were theonly people that I knew in mm-hmm.
In the profession.
And I was like, well, you know what?
You guys seem pretty cool.
I think I'm gonna follow youguys around for a few days.
And there was kind of two benefits.

(56:16):
One was I realized I wasn't alone.
I realized I wasn't the only oneout there that was trying to figure
things out that had problems in termsof how to get information to build
programs, deal with difficult bosses,whatever it might be, deal with.
Cops that didn't understand my job.
I was definitely not, I mean, everybodyat the conference was like that.

(56:36):
So I was like, this is great.
I mean, that was likea breath of fresh air.
Kind of a, a, a moment where I realizedthat, that the profession is bigger
than this job here in Oceanside.
There's more going on.
And I was really happyto be a part of that.
I think the other thing thathappened was I had a ton of
fun hanging out with people.
So I remember we were in Seattleand, and I, and I, and I lived in the

(56:58):
Northwest, so I'm in part a Mariners fanand I. We went out to a Mariners game.
Yep.
And I Yeah, I remember that.
Were, were you at, were you at this Jason?
Yep.
Oh gosh.
And I remember going,you're gonna remember
this.
This is a great story.
So we go out for the Mariners game andI'm getting to know people and everything,
and I probably was like so naive.
I'm like, well, I guess we'llgo to the Mariners game and then
go back to my hotel and mm-hmm.

(57:18):
The
Mariners game was over and it was like,oh, we're just getting started, you know?
And we go out on the town and, and thegroup of us end up in the coyote bar,
which, I mean, if it, I think Coyote,anything called the coyote bar, you
can kind of guess what that looks like.
Like people dancing on the barit's like a wild spot, whatever.
Yeah.
And I look over, and I won't namethis person, but I look over one

(57:41):
of the analysts from the groupis riding the mechanical bull.
Yeah.
Like, within like secondsof walking in the place.
And I'm like.
Whoa.
These people are a lot more excitingthan, than they're, they're than
people say, like, we get labeledas like the, the nerdy group,
but man, this is the place to be.
This is fun.
So I fondly remember the friends Imade through the, the IACA, those, I

(58:06):
mean, that was, gosh, that was likethat was like medication to my illness.
I was struggling in so many ways and likethe, the IECA came and rescued me and I
learned a lot, not just at the conference,but through the connections that I made
people that I, even there, if thereacross the country, I could pick up the
phone and say, Hey, I've got a problem.
I know you guys.

(58:26):
Are similar to us in thisway, can you help me?
And I leaned on that heavilyfor, for years, so, mm-hmm.
And it was one of those things too, wasI had to, I had to preach about that
when I got back because people wouldbe like, I try to go to the conferences
often as I could, and people would belike, oh yeah, you're gonna go off to
this town and have a good time for a weekpaid vacation by the department, huh?

(58:49):
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, no.
I'm like, I, I really need this.
I have to go because.
There's nowhere elseto go to get training.
There's nobody that's talkingabout these things in a room.
There's nobody that'steaching me how to do this.
Like, I have to go to the IACA becausethese are the people that are, are
living it, and these are the peoplethat are sharing their knowledge.
So I have nothing but the best memoriesabout that involvement in those days.

(59:12):
Yeah.
So, so you won two awards.
It is, it's interesting.
It, it seems now that it mightactually be civilian award season.
In the springtime.
I was on LinkedIn and I see all theseanalysts winning awards for various
reasons throughout the country.
, In 2005, you won the overall best product.

(59:33):
Crime analysis product.
And then 2007, you won the best technicalcrime bulletin, what did that do for you?
What do you, how do you value that these,these awards that analysts are given?
I think the most important, for me, themost important thing about those awards
was not necessarily the recognition,it was the fact that it validated

(59:57):
what I was doing in the department.
So when I was doing my best tocome out with a, with a bulletin
related to a robbery series,I was hoping that it was good.
I was hoping that it would help.
I was hoping that it was, I was doingmy job, but I didn't totally know.
And getting the recognition throughsomething like IACA and and being
able to go and speak at a conferenceand talk about something that we were

(01:00:19):
working on here in the departmentwas, was incredibly validating and it
allowed me to continue to move forward.
It allowed me to continue to kind ofpush things in that direction because I
could, I could fall back on it if I hadsomebody that was maybe doubting, like
whether this is a good thing to do orwhether this is, it had any value to it.
I was I was able to trust that.

(01:00:41):
It was that it was the right thing to say,look, like I've talked to analysts across
the country, this is how we wanna do this.
So and so in this city this issomething that they do and it works.
This is when we did thisbefore it led to an arrest.
All those things the IACA, thoseawards, that's, I think was the
most value in getting those.
Alright, let's go on to ouradvice section for our listeners.

(01:01:04):
And this can be for newanalysts, experienced analysts.
This is can be something thatanalysts can study now because five
years it's going to be important.
What do you got?
I would say that my advice isa second part of that question.
Why have I stayed here for so long?
Mm-hmm.
So my advice to analysts wouldbe, do whatever you can to

(01:01:24):
continually reinvent yourself.
Mm-hmm.
If you were to ask me whyhave I stayed here so long?
I would say the truth be told, Idon't think I've had the same job
for more than two or three years.
My job has changed somuch from when I started.
The things that I workon have always changed.
And the best part of my job is thatthey've allowed me to work on the things
that I want to work on, the things thatI enjoy, the things that I wanna pursue.

(01:01:47):
So an example of that would be coming fromLondon, doing the degree I did, you know.
Looking at an Intel career, Ireally wanted to do something
in counter-terrorism.
I wanted to do somethingrelated to Homeland Security.
That was an ambition of mine.
And I came it was, it, it took awhile 'cause I was getting shut down.
I was like, no, we got pe I was toldwe got people that could handle that.

(01:02:08):
And I'm like, are you sure?
I really think like we shouldhave an Intel component to this.
They're like, Nope, you can'tgo to that training 'cause
we got somebody else going.
And I'm like, finally, I, I was ableto break through because I had the
right people that were listeningand the next thing I knew I was.
Going to New Mexico to do likeexplosives training and learn
about how to recognize explosives.
And we were, we were blowing stuff up.

(01:02:30):
We we, we, we blew up a car bomb.
I mean, it was, it was awesome.
It was like one of the, that'sone of the highlights of my career
was going to New Mexico and, anddoing a terrorism training course.
And that was because I thoughtcarefully about how to make an argument.
That was worth something, that wassomething I should be working on,
and it was something I wanted to do.

(01:02:51):
And I, and I managed to not only go to thetraining, but I brought it back and then
I started teaching it to our officers andthen myself, along with some colleagues,
we built a terrorism liaison program.
I'm proud of the fact that that'snot just about like responding
to a a, a suspicious incident.
It's about having like an Intel componentwithin your, your your local law

(01:03:15):
enforcement terrorism awareness program.
So we, we built a, a verygood program for years.
I would head down to and I still dofrom time to time down to the Fusion
Center in San Diego or the FBI officesthat are here in, in North County.
And we would meet and we talk about stuff,and I slept better at night because I'm
like, at least I I don't think anybodywas doing this until we started it.

(01:03:38):
Nobody was really paying attentionto when they needed to be.
And so we implemented that,and that program still is a
part of how we do things today.
And for me, that'sanother career highlight.
But it's only because I decidedI'm not gonna limit myself to
what's on my job description.
I'm gonna look for ways that I cangrow and I'm challenged myself.
And even if some people might not seethat as my job, i, I think if, if, if I

(01:04:02):
can do it and there's a good reason forit I'm gonna, I'm gonna chase it down.
And I've done that over the courseof my career, and I think that's
something I don't always see.
And I see people get oh, I'm sotired of doing the same thing.
Well, whose fault is that?
Mm-hmm.
You have to ask that question.
You're doing the same thing.
You're complaining about it.
What do you like to do?
What do you wanna do?
And it's not just assignments, it's alsolike how you engage with your community.

(01:04:25):
Maybe we our analysts, like, they'repretty active in our we have a
program here in Oceanside calledthe Oceanside Youth Partnership.
So every week they take off when thisprogram is running, they take off
a little early from their shift andthey go out and they hang out with
kids that were maybe they're at riskyouth that we've incorporated into
a, a policing program where we teachthem things, but we interact with

(01:04:47):
them and our, it's not just for cops.
Our analysts are out there doingthat and they get a lot out of that.
So you know.
I feel like those are the things.
If you can, if you can findthose things, you're gonna,
that that's, that's my advice.
That's how you're gonna not justmaybe survive and last somewhere,
but that's how you're gonna reallylike, get, have a fulfilling career.

(01:05:07):
That's my advice.
Yeah.
Yeah, you gotta be tenacious.
You gotta be a go-getter.
I was, I was laughing there becauseJoe, Joe Ryan talks to a lot of
analysts he meets these analyststhat are just completely miserable.
Like, they're just, oh, yeah, yeah.
They're just not, they're notdoing what they want, but they're
not leaving either and mm-hmm.
And I, we, we were trying to come up witha term for that, that type of analyst.

(01:05:32):
And I think the leading term is a,a gluttonous a glutton an an analyst
that's a glutton for punishment.
So that, that's a good one.
Yeah.
They're definitely insome kind of purgatory.
I, I've seen it plenty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it is just one of those thingsthat they're beaten down and they, they
just feel they're not being listenedto or, and they just feel lost.

(01:05:55):
But at the same time,they're showing up for work.
Right.
And they're not pursuing any otheropportunities, and they're not
trying to change their situation.
And it's, you feel for, you feel for them.
Well and the truth is, I mean,you can say, why don't you
leave and do something else?
Well a lot of us have liveswe got kids that go to schools
and we can't leave our job.
Or maybe there's other circumstancesof, like, I can't take a risk.

(01:06:19):
I can't, I can't, I, I, I don'twanna lose my health insurance or
my benefits my retirement is good.
I, I mean, it's, it would begreat to leave, but I can't.
But if there's things in your life thatyou can't control, maybe there's some
things that you can control that'llmake your situation a little better.
So I think that's one of them.
All right.
Well, let's finish up withpersonal interest then.
What do you like to do when you'renot at Oceanside Police Department?

(01:06:42):
, My hobbies have aligned themselveswith being at the Oceanside Police
Department for 20 years, because I'dsay probably getting on the water is my
number one goal when I'm not at work.
So whether it's surfing or paddle boardingI recently learned a sail, which was,
that was another moment where I'm, Istepped outta my comfort zone and did

(01:07:03):
something I was totally intimidated by.
And I still get scared half todeath when I take the boat out
on the Big Bay in San Diego.
Mm-hmm.
But those, those are probablymy favorite things to do.
They also, you know mywife is the same way.
She has those same interests, sowe've sort of developed that over time
and it's kind of come along with thefact that I don't think we thought

(01:07:24):
our life was gonna be in San Diego.
We talked a lot about, I.Moving back to the northwest.
And then over time you start torealize, hey, our life is actually here.
And you start to embrace the thingsthat, that are available to you.
And so I didn't start to learn tosurf until my kids started doing it.
So I was like over 40 Nice.
When I started to learn, learn to surf.
But I love it.

(01:07:44):
I mean, I was, I was down at thebeach last weekend for my daughter's.
I was having a birthday partydown there and I, I was the only
guy out there without a wetsuit.
I said, this is a pretty nice hot day.
I think I can handle this.
So that was kind of a cool moment,but that, those are my, those
are my favorite things to do.
So what, on the, on surfing, what isthe most badass thing you've ever done?

(01:08:05):
I have done very little.
That you could describe as badass.
I mean, just simply gettingup on the board and not.
Totally wiping out is a victory for me.
Yeah.
I
would've to say so.
Yeah, I I, I I cannot tellyou a story about the time I
got barreled at Blacks Beach.
That's not gonna be in this conversation.
I'm sorry to say.
Yeah.

(01:08:26):
So, all right.
Very good, Steve.
Let's our last segment of the show isWords to the World, and this is where
you can promote any idea that you wish.
What are your words to the world?
Well, my words to the worldare very similar to my advice.
That's just not only to reinventyourself, but always act like you belong.

(01:08:46):
I think as if you're an analyst,especially in a police department, and
you tell somebody that you work forthe Oceanside Police Department often.
You get the question, oh, are you a cop?
Well, I, my, my words to the worldare never answer that question
with, no, I'm just an analyst.
Mm-hmm.
That breaks my heart.

(01:09:06):
Because you're not only minimizingyour role, you're actually doing a
disservice to the, to the profession.
Take it as an opportunityto say, no, you know what?
My job's a little different.
Lemme tell you about what I do.
However you wanna say it,however you wanna explain it.
And that's you're gonnahave to explain your job.
If you're out there and you're thinkingabout this career, you're gonna have
to tell people It's not CSI, I'm sorry.

(01:09:28):
Even to, in this day and age,you're gonna have to explain
what you do, but don't play.
You may be in a support role, butdon't play second fiddle like you
may be in a support role, but don'tthink of yourself as I'm only here
if people ask me for something.
Take a leadership role.
Be a leader in your, in youragency, in your organization.
Don't think that you're limitedbecause you're not sworn.

(01:09:51):
You never know what you can do andyou never know what people will let
you do if you try and always walkin the room like you belong there.
Very good.
Well, I leave every guest with,you've given me just enough
to talk bad about you later.
Yep.
But I do appreciate youbeing on the show, Steve.
It was great catching up.
Thank you so much and you be safe.

(01:10:12):
Thanks very much Jason.
It was a lot of fun.
Thank you for making it tothe end of another episode of
Analyst Talk with Jason Elder.
You can show your support by sharingthis in other episodes found on
our website@www.podcasts.com.
If you have a topic you would likeus to cover or have a suggestion for
our next guest, please send us anemail at elliot podcast@gmail.com

(01:10:34):
next time analysts talking.

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Analyst Talk - Steve Walter - Rooted in Oceanside with Longevity and Leadership

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Analyst Talk - Steve Walter - Rooted in Oceanside with Longevity and Leadership