June 19, 2024 • 32 mins
Have you ever wondered how your family's past shapes your present? In this heartfelt episode of Life After 11, we promise an intimate journey through time as we sit down with my great uncle, Coleman Goldsboro. Uncle Demi opens up about our family's roots, dating back to the early European settlements in Talbot County, Maryland, in the 1630s. He shares touching stories about his parents, George and Ida Goldsboro, their life in Pocomoke, Maryland, and the poignant memories of siblings who passed away too soon. This chapter is not just about history; it's a tapestry of personal anecdotes that give you a deeper understanding of our family's legacy.
We then turn our focus to the life and legacy of my mother, exploring her passion for education, community involvement, and her courageous role in the civil rights movement. From desegregating local establishments to participating in Freedom Rides, her inspiring actions are a testament to her character and values. The episode also uncovers the rich heritage of Mo, tracing his lineage from Uganda to New Orleans and his connection to Native American ancestry. As we celebrate the resilience and diverse backgrounds of our family, you'll gain a newfound appreciation for the experiences that have shaped us. Don't miss out on this compelling exploration of identity, heritage, and legacy.
Life After Leaven is sponsored by Sub:Culture Incorporated, a 501c3 committed to eradicating cultural, social, spiritual, financial, and academic barriers for Black College Students. If you are interested in giving a tax deductible donation toward our work with black college students, you can do that here. Thank you for helping us ensure temporary roadblocks don't become permanent dead ends for students with marginalized identities. You can follow us on Instagram: @subc_incorporated, Facebook: facebook.com/subcultureinco, and Twitter: @subcultureinco1.
Our episodes are written and produced by Tamice Namae Speaks LLC.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up y'all?
Welcome to this episode of LifeAfter 11.
I wanted to pop in on the frontend and let you know that this
is a different kind of episode.
So I interviewed my Uncle, demi, which is my grandmother.
Leah, the one I write about inFaith Unleavened her younger
baby brother and I just wantedto know about our history and
our story, and so I interviewedhim for the season before I
(00:21):
decided that Life After 11 wascoming to an end him for the
season before I decided thatLife After 11 was coming to an
end.
And so we're going to interviewhim because I think it's
important for you all to get toknow me as I begin to try to
defend and explain my doctoraldissertation in season four.
Don't worry, it won't be boringand nerdy, it'll be fun, but it
will all be around theepistemological frameworks I'm
(00:42):
working on to defend in mydoctorate.
So thank y'all for listening.
If you really really are sadthat I'm not doing a podcast
anymore, you can catch me eitheron the one I do with Ellison on
the Patreon.
That one's called Non-BinaryLove in Black and White, and
it's really like really raw butreally real, and I'll be on Deep
(01:02):
Resonance with Misha Vanessonover at jointheresonancecom.
So that's where I'll be inthese podcast streets after the
end of season four.
But I wanted to tell you whatto expect in this episode.
Uncle Demi's older, has alittle bit of hard time
remembering and there were somesound issues, but I did the best
I could to jump in and try toorient you to what's going on.
(01:23):
So welcome to another episodeof Life After 11.
Let's get it.
Hello, hi, uncle Demi, it'sTamice.
How are you?
Oh, okay, can you hear me okay?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I just woke up, Just came downstairs.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay.
Did you want me to call youlater on, or are you okay to
still talk Today's Monday?
This is the voice of my greatuncle, Coleman Goldsboro.
(02:05):
He was my grandmother's babybrother and the last born of my
great grandparents, George andIda Goldsboro.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You pulled a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh good, I'm glad and I'm not going to keep you super
long because I don't want tohold up your day, I'm just I'm
doing a podcast long because Idon't want to hold up your day,
I'm just I'm doing a podcast,and this year, because it was my
40th birthday, this year I'minterviewing people who have had
a significant impact on my life, and so obviously my mom is one
(02:36):
of those people, and so I wouldlove to just talk to you about
her and about the family andanything that you know, because
I know that you've her and aboutthe family and anything that
you know, because I know thatyou've been the one keeping,
kind of keeping track of thefamily tree and stuff like that.
So I wanted to see if you'd beopen to helping me answer some
questions about my mom.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
OK, let me.
I'm sitting at the computer.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
OK.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Let me open the family tree in case I have to go
there to answer some of yourquestions.
Let's see.
Do you want to start with yourquestion?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, yeah.
So I was wondering if you couldjust tell me the story of how
we arrived in Easton, how ourfamily came to be there.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Okay, my father was born here in Talbot County.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Okay, here's what I could find out about Talbot
County, maryland.
It's one of the oldest centersof European settlement in the
New World and the first boatarrived there in the 1630s.
They began to establish tobaccoplantations along the shores of
the rivers there, and by 1662,the settlers had basically
(03:58):
created Talbot County.
They did some playing aroundwith the borders in the area all
through the 1800s, but forabout a century they used
tobacco as money and traded forEnglish manufactured goods and,
you know, enslaved Africans.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
These parents were already living there.
My mother was born in WorcesterCounty, Maryland, a town known
(04:39):
as Pocomoke.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay, Pocomoke, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
My father was a minister in Pocomoke.
Yeah, okay, Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh, wow, okay.
And why did they end up movingin Pocomoke?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And why did they end up moving to Pocomoke?
Well, the message made me weused to get transferred a lot.
Okay.
My mother met my father when mygrandfather, my mother's father
was a pastor in a town here inTalbot County called Newtown.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Okay, and that's where my mother and father met.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Gotcha Okay, gotcha Okay, wow.
So that's George Goldsboro.
And then great grandma's namewas Ida Jane Heyman, right?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, she had three names Sarah.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Ida.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Jane.
And why did she have threenames?
Was that customary back then?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, because your grandmother, naomi, had three
names Leah, naomi, omega.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Goldsboro, and then Hasty, and then Hasty, and my
mom is your older sister.
You're the baby of the family,right?
Uh, yeah, and what was it like?
What was it like growing upthere?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
well, I had another brother who was younger than me,
but um I somebody called wasyounger than me, oh, but I don't
know if you call it stillbornor not, but he never came home
from the hospital.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's why your mother's obituary, your
grandmother's obituary.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh, wow, okay, Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, wow, okay, Okay, and so I think I have a question
about this.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I think I remember some of the names, but my mom
was the only girl right.
You know there was anotherdaughter.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And I went.
Let me go to family first anddeath.
I'll tell you when she died,your when she died.
Okay, but they were two thatnever went to school.
They died before they went toschool.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Oh, wow, okay.
In addition to the stillbornbaby, uncle Demi goes on to tell
me that there were two otherchildren that my great lost
before they went to school.
One was Ida Alberta, who wasborn in 1929 and died in 1934
(08:37):
from whooping cough, and thenFrancis Scott was born this is
the son 1919 and died in 1925from polio.
Uncle Demi goes on to name notonly the full legal names of my
uncles, but also their nicknames, and so, in order to protect
(09:00):
their identities, I have removedthat from this episode, but
we'll jump back in.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
A nickname your grandmother named.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Nip, nip, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, so I remember hearing that because my mom
would always refer to hersiblings by their nickname, so
it's helpful for me to see whois who.
So who came after that?
So that's what 13?
, 11?
, 13?
, 11?
.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Wow, what were they like as parents.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
As parents.
Mm-hmm.
Well, my father was very strictand my mother was um.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
She could tell you that everything was turned
around so it's a little hard tohear him in this part, but
essentially he's telling meabout my great-grandmother's
involvement in the Methodistchurch.
She basically had every titleyou could possibly have, so it's
(10:16):
kind of cool to know that Icome from a long line of people
who really love God.
It's impossible.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Because my two oldest brothers were born in Newtown.
My mother decided she was goingto move to Easton where they
could walk to school, to Eastern, where they could walk to
(10:46):
school to make sure that all ofher children got an education.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Wow, so she moved, just so y'all could walk to
school.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, because where they lived then with the two
oldest kids it was the oneroomschoolhouse.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So they lived in a one-room schoolhouse before they
moved to Newton.
Yeah, oh, wow, Okay, Okay.
And so was great-grandma.
Was she funny?
Like Sarah, Ida, Jane, was shefunny?
Did she like to laugh?
What did she like to do?
His answer was that my greatgrandmother worked.
When I asked what she did forfun, he said she went to work in
(11:34):
church and that was her life.
But not only that.
She taught her kids how to dothe same type of work and in
that way I really do think shewas trying to set them up for
success and financial stability,sort of open doors for them
that were not open for her.
So shout out to my greatgrandmother.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I started cooking and ironing and cleaning and she
taught all of her students toiron.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It would have been a lot of work.
She would have ironed.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She made sure all of them knew how all of us knew how
to iron so, in faith unleavened, I tell the story about barack
obama's election and the phonecall I have with my grandmother.
(12:43):
This part of the episode goesin to the story I tell in that
chapter.
The chapter is called missouricompromise because I do remember
my mom telling a story aboutgreat grandma pulling a white
sheet out.
Do you remember this storywhere it was a it was a KKK hood
(13:04):
and she had to leave.
Do you remember that story?
Oh yeah, can you tell me thatstory?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
family here in Easton and she was doing the laundry
and a man uniform as one of thepieces in the laundry, and that
(13:33):
piece didn't realize what it was.
She put the iron down andwalked out of the house and the
job.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And what did George say?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I don't know.
I guess he agreed with it,mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, I really I love that story.
I tell, tell the story.
I tell that story in particularlike in the book I wrote when
I'm talking about my mom inthere.
So like just talking a littlebit more about my mom in
particular, because I know thatwas your older sister and y'all
were pretty close right yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, and.
(14:17):
And so what was she passionateabout?
What was she like when she was,like you know, in her 20s?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, she was cool and schoolwork.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Really passionate and she took care of my mother and
involvement with church.
She did all the business, youthand all the kids.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I've been finding out so much more about my
grandmother since she's passedon and I've been talking to her
a lot more since she's passed on.
But one of the things I foundout about her from the funeral
(15:18):
was that she had started aschool and had students that
were coming to the school andthe mayor reached out because of
the work that she was doing waskind of grabbing attention of
the people in Baltimore.
The mayor comes to visit andsays you know, what do you need?
If you could have anything,what do you need?
And my grandmother asked forlaundry machines and dryers
because she wanted the kids tohave confidence because their
clothes were clean.
And when I heard that story, Ibroke down because I realized
(15:41):
that this impulse that is in meto create something where there
isn't something, and that it wasfor the kids that she did it
reminds me of the way that Istarted subculture and how it
was important for me to makesure they had what they needed
to have confidence in school,and so it just feels really
precious to me to know that Ihave that in common with my
(16:04):
grandmother and that's probablywhere it came from.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
When she was a teenager, in high school, and
there was a conference inCleveland Ohio.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
She represented our church at that conference as a
youth fellowship and I rememberher going to Ohio for that
conference.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Wow, that's incredible.
And so when she was passionateabout, you know, education I
know that because you know sheused to always make sure that we
were making sure we did ourhomework and reading and stuff
like that but she also told methis story about desegregating
the ice cream shop.
Do you remember that?
(17:04):
Yeah, what is that story?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I used to come home for what was known as Freedom
Ride in those days, to besegregated to restaurants in
here in Easton, and also I usedto come down here to Cambridge I
(17:35):
think I was living in NewJersey at the time to march in
Freedom Ride to desegregate theneighborhood.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
She had always told me that when I asked her about
that, she just very simply said,well, that Ida Jane liked
french vanilla ice cream.
So that's why she did thesit-in at the ice cream shop,
because her mom liked frenchvanilla ice cream, and I just
always thought that was such aninteresting way to frame that.
(18:12):
Do you so when you were doingthe freedom rides and stuff like
that, did you see any change?
Like what, what was that timelike for you and how old were
you?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I guess I was in my 20s, okay, but I remember that
there was one time and I guessthat was the.
I remember one time that Naomiand I both were here.
(18:46):
At this time she came fromBaltimore for the Freedom Ride
and I guess that's the ice creamstory.
One time, because I rememberthat my father went uptown to
(19:11):
the courthouse or to the jailbecause he heard that some of
the Freedom Riders had beenarrested.
He went to see if his daughterwas one of them.
He was seen, but he was not oneof the ones who was arrested.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
How would he have reacted if she had been arrested
?
Do you think he would have beenproud of her, or just how do
you think he would have reactedto that?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, he knew all the powers and shakers in the
county government, so thatprobably just wouldn't have been
me Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Wow, and so it didn't put his standing in jeopardy,
that my mom was doing the sitins and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It didn't do what.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It didn't put his his standing like in the community
and stuff that didn't affect hisstanding that my mom was
participating in civil rights.
No, oh, wow, that's sointeresting.
So Allison and I decided thatgetting a copy of family tree
was not sufficient, so thissummer we're gonna go visit
(20:24):
uncle deemee and hear thesestories in person and possibly
get some video.
I'm learning so much about whoI am by hearing these stories
and I think, as I live and moveand put content out into the
world, it's important for peopleto know me, and me comes with
(20:46):
all of this.
So thank you for holding thestories of my family and for
listening.
These are sacred stories.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And then I only have three more questions for you,
because I know I know what Imiss most about my mom is just
her stories and her laugh andthe way, the way that she
responded when food was reallygood, especially if it was
seafood.
I miss so many things about herbut I want to know, kind of,
what you miss about her.
And then my second question ishow would you describe her in
(21:18):
three words?
And the last question is if, ifshe, if you were her, or think
about what she would say to thisquestion, which is, um, if
there were any words to live by,what would they be?
So what would my mom say?
Some words to live by would bewords to live by would be.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Let me see.
Uh-huh, if we can pick up onthat, mm-hmm, I would like to go
to her and ask her things thatI can't quite remember, or I
would like to know more about.
(22:03):
You know she was young becauseshe was three years older.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, so the big sister.
Yeah, yeah, so the big sister,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, three words.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
She was intelligent yeah, that's for sure, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I'm trying to think yeah, it's no worries if you
don't.
The last question was if you,if my mom, could give the
younger generation some words tolive, by, what would they be?
What do you think she would say?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
study hard study.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Study, hard Study.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And achieve academically.
That's right and I feel likeshe kind of she put a love for
learning for me.
She put a love of learning inme and I'll never forget that
and I'm so thankful I got theopportunity to talk to you a
little bit about it and I can'twait to get the the tree from
you, um, because I just I feellike I'm in a place right now
(23:57):
where I'm wanting to connect tomy roots and know my story.
Do you by chance know whattribe we came from?
Did you ever go that far back?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, I'm looking at a picture here on the wall and I
think it's my great grandmotherwho was part Indian, and most
of those in this part ofMaryland were Nanticoke, so
that's probably Nanticoke Nannycoat.
(24:27):
Okay, so that's my father'snanny coat.
Wow, but I know that my fatherwas always proud that his
grandmother was part NativeAmerican.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Wow, okay, wow.
And do you know what side?
The Haman, where the Haman sidecame from.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, that was my mother's side of the family.
You know, the first person inour family that we had records
of was someone new with the nameMo Hold on.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
M-O.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, mo, mo did not have a last name.
Okay, because Mo didn't getlast name until after the
Emancipation Proclamation.
Okay, now it's the B's that.
Hey, you people gotta get somesurname.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Wow, okay, because of census.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I guess they just need to know who these people
were, and most of the people,both the blacks, used the last
names of the families that ownedthem Right, but others did not.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
But others did not.
First person in the Heymanfamily history.
Their name was Hill, but hechanged his name to Heyman.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Wow, okay, do you know why?
Are there any records as to why?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
No, Because his name was Hill and he changed it to
Heyman.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So don't you think Jeffrey is a Heyman Mm-hmm?
But I remember when I wasyounger I knew Jeffrey well I
guess most of his family, that'smy mother if they were related
(27:19):
and he knew Jeffrey'sgrandfather.
And even though they were fromthe Pennsylvania area, they were
not Haymans who were related toher family.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, Okay.
So so Hayman is a name thatthey just made up, or that
whoever the first Hayman whochanged their name from Hill to
Haman?
Was that a made-up name?
That wasn't the master's name.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
For our family.
Yes, Haman was just the namethat was chosen.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Wow.
So they did not take the nameof the masters, they created
their own last name.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Oh my goodness, that's incredible.
Wow.
And what do you know about Mo?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
You know, we had a family reunion.
Some of the people they didn'tknow their names 90.
We didn't know Really and thegood man said he came from
Uganda to New Orleans as a slave.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So he was a slave in New Orleans, okay.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
In the Gold Falls.
That was the name.
Okay, wow.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Wow, wow, so they chose.
So you're saying they chose thename Goldsboro because there
were prominent white familieswith that last name, but they
weren't owned by somebody namedGoldsboro.
Oh, my goodness, it is soawesome.
That's just amazing.
Wow, wow, that's just amazing,wow, wow.
This has been so enlightening.
(29:50):
I can't wait to get the stufffrom you.
So Mo came from Uganda throughfrom Uganda to Louisiana, and
then the other side was NativeAmericans wow, manicote Native,
americans.
Wow, this has been so awesome.
(30:13):
Thank you so much, uncle D andme.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I really appreciate this.
Thank you for listening To pickyour money in your heart is
donate to Subquatcher Inc andclear the path for black
students today.
What's up y'all?
Welcome to this episode of LifeAfter 11.
I wanted to pop in on the frontend and let you know that this
is a different kind of episode.
So I interviewed my Uncle, demi, which is my grandmother.
Leah, the one I write about inFaith Unleavened her younger
baby brother and I just wantedto know about our history and
our story, and so I interviewedhim for the season before I
(00:21):
decided that Life After 11 wascoming to an end him for the
season before I decided thatLife After 11 was coming to an
end.
And so we're going to interviewhim because I think it's
important for you all to get toknow me as I begin to try to
defend and explain my doctoraldissertation in season four.
Don't worry, it won't be boringand nerdy, it'll be fun, but it
will all be around theepistemological frameworks I'm
(00:42):
working on to defend in mydoctorate.
So thank y'all for listening.
If you really really are sadthat I'm not doing a podcast
anymore, you can catch me eitheron the one I do with Ellison on
the Patreon.
That one's called Non-BinaryLove in Black and White, and
it's really like really raw butreally real, and I'll be on Deep
(01:02):
Resonance with Misha Vanessonover at jointheresonancecom.
So that's where I'll be inthese podcast streets after the
end of season four.
But I wanted to tell you whatto expect in this episode.
Uncle Demi's older, has alittle bit of hard time
remembering and there were somesound issues, but I did the best
I could to jump in and try toorient you to what's going on.
(01:23):
So welcome to another episodeof Life After 11.
Let's get it.
Hello, hi, uncle Demi, it'sTamice.
How are you?
Oh, okay, can you hear me okay?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I just woke up, Just came downstairs.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay.
Did you want me to call youlater on, or are you okay to
still talk Today's Monday?
This is the voice of my greatuncle, Coleman Goldsboro.
(02:05):
He was my grandmother's babybrother and the last born of my
great grandparents, George andIda Goldsboro.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You pulled a good time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh good, I'm glad and I'm not going to keep you super
long because I don't want tohold up your day, I'm just I'm
doing a podcast long because Idon't want to hold up your day,
I'm just I'm doing a podcast,and this year, because it was my
40th birthday, this year I'minterviewing people who have had
a significant impact on my life, and so obviously my mom is one
(02:36):
of those people, and so I wouldlove to just talk to you about
her and about the family andanything that you know, because
I know that you've her and aboutthe family and anything that
you know, because I know thatyou've been the one keeping,
kind of keeping track of thefamily tree and stuff like that.
So I wanted to see if you'd beopen to helping me answer some
questions about my mom.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
OK, let me.
I'm sitting at the computer.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
OK.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Let me open the family tree in case I have to go
there to answer some of yourquestions.
Let's see.
Do you want to start with yourquestion?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, yeah.
So I was wondering if you couldjust tell me the story of how
we arrived in Easton, how ourfamily came to be there.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Okay, my father was born here in Talbot County.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Okay, here's what I could find out about Talbot
County, maryland.
It's one of the oldest centersof European settlement in the
New World and the first boatarrived there in the 1630s.
They began to establish tobaccoplantations along the shores of
the rivers there, and by 1662,the settlers had basically
(03:58):
created Talbot County.
They did some playing aroundwith the borders in the area all
through the 1800s, but forabout a century they used
tobacco as money and traded forEnglish manufactured goods and,
you know, enslaved Africans.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
These parents were already living there.
My mother was born in WorcesterCounty, Maryland, a town known
(04:39):
as Pocomoke.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay, Pocomoke, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
My father was a minister in Pocomoke.
Yeah, okay, Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh, wow, okay.
And why did they end up movingin Pocomoke?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And why did they end up moving to Pocomoke?
Well, the message made me weused to get transferred a lot.
Okay.
My mother met my father when mygrandfather, my mother's father
was a pastor in a town here inTalbot County called Newtown.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Okay, and that's where my mother and father met.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Gotcha Okay, gotcha Okay, wow.
So that's George Goldsboro.
And then great grandma's namewas Ida Jane Heyman, right?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, she had three names Sarah.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Ida.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Jane.
And why did she have threenames?
Was that customary back then?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, because your grandmother, naomi, had three
names Leah, naomi, omega.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Goldsboro, and then Hasty, and then Hasty, and my
mom is your older sister.
You're the baby of the family,right?
Uh, yeah, and what was it like?
What was it like growing upthere?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
well, I had another brother who was younger than me,
but um I somebody called wasyounger than me, oh, but I don't
know if you call it stillbornor not, but he never came home
from the hospital.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
That's why your mother's obituary, your
grandmother's obituary.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Oh, wow, okay, Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, wow, okay, Okay, and so I think I have a question
about this.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I think I remember some of the names, but my mom
was the only girl right.
You know there was anotherdaughter.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
And I went.
Let me go to family first anddeath.
I'll tell you when she died,your when she died.
Okay, but they were two thatnever went to school.
They died before they went toschool.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Oh, wow, okay.
In addition to the stillbornbaby, uncle Demi goes on to tell
me that there were two otherchildren that my great lost
before they went to school.
One was Ida Alberta, who wasborn in 1929 and died in 1934
(08:37):
from whooping cough, and thenFrancis Scott was born this is
the son 1919 and died in 1925from polio.
Uncle Demi goes on to name notonly the full legal names of my
uncles, but also their nicknames, and so, in order to protect
(09:00):
their identities, I have removedthat from this episode, but
we'll jump back in.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
A nickname your grandmother named.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Nip, nip, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, so I remember hearing that because my mom
would always refer to hersiblings by their nickname, so
it's helpful for me to see whois who.
So who came after that?
So that's what 13?
, 11?
, 13?
, 11?
.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Wow, what were they like as parents.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
As parents.
Mm-hmm.
Well, my father was very strictand my mother was um.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
She could tell you that everything was turned
around so it's a little hard tohear him in this part, but
essentially he's telling meabout my great-grandmother's
involvement in the Methodistchurch.
She basically had every titleyou could possibly have, so it's
(10:16):
kind of cool to know that Icome from a long line of people
who really love God.
It's impossible.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Because my two oldest brothers were born in Newtown.
My mother decided she was goingto move to Easton where they
could walk to school, to Eastern, where they could walk to
(10:46):
school to make sure that all ofher children got an education.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Wow, so she moved, just so y'all could walk to
school.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, because where they lived then with the two
oldest kids it was the oneroomschoolhouse.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So they lived in a one-room schoolhouse before they
moved to Newton.
Yeah, oh, wow, Okay, Okay.
And so was great-grandma.
Was she funny?
Like Sarah, Ida, Jane, was shefunny?
Did she like to laugh?
What did she like to do?
His answer was that my greatgrandmother worked.
When I asked what she did forfun, he said she went to work in
(11:34):
church and that was her life.
But not only that.
She taught her kids how to dothe same type of work and in
that way I really do think shewas trying to set them up for
success and financial stability,sort of open doors for them
that were not open for her.
So shout out to my greatgrandmother.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I started cooking and ironing and cleaning and she
taught all of her students toiron.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
It would have been a lot of work.
She would have ironed.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She made sure all of them knew how all of us knew how
to iron so, in faith unleavened, I tell the story about barack
obama's election and the phonecall I have with my grandmother.
(12:43):
This part of the episode goesin to the story I tell in that
chapter.
The chapter is called missouricompromise because I do remember
my mom telling a story aboutgreat grandma pulling a white
sheet out.
Do you remember this storywhere it was a it was a KKK hood
(13:04):
and she had to leave.
Do you remember that story?
Oh yeah, can you tell me thatstory?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
family here in Easton and she was doing the laundry
and a man uniform as one of thepieces in the laundry, and that
(13:33):
piece didn't realize what it was.
She put the iron down andwalked out of the house and the
job.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And what did George say?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I don't know.
I guess he agreed with it,mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, I really I love that story.
I tell, tell the story.
I tell that story in particularlike in the book I wrote when
I'm talking about my mom inthere.
So like just talking a littlebit more about my mom in
particular, because I know thatwas your older sister and y'all
were pretty close right yeahyeah, yeah, yeah, and.
(14:17):
And so what was she passionateabout?
What was she like when she was,like you know, in her 20s?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, she was cool and schoolwork.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Really passionate and she took care of my mother and
involvement with church.
She did all the business, youthand all the kids.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I've been finding out so much more about my
grandmother since she's passedon and I've been talking to her
a lot more since she's passed on.
But one of the things I foundout about her from the funeral
(15:18):
was that she had started aschool and had students that
were coming to the school andthe mayor reached out because of
the work that she was doing waskind of grabbing attention of
the people in Baltimore.
The mayor comes to visit andsays you know, what do you need?
If you could have anything,what do you need?
And my grandmother asked forlaundry machines and dryers
because she wanted the kids tohave confidence because their
clothes were clean.
And when I heard that story, Ibroke down because I realized
(15:41):
that this impulse that is in meto create something where there
isn't something, and that it wasfor the kids that she did it
reminds me of the way that Istarted subculture and how it
was important for me to makesure they had what they needed
to have confidence in school,and so it just feels really
precious to me to know that Ihave that in common with my
(16:04):
grandmother and that's probablywhere it came from.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
When she was a teenager, in high school, and
there was a conference inCleveland Ohio.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
She represented our church at that conference as a
youth fellowship and I rememberher going to Ohio for that
conference.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Wow, that's incredible.
And so when she was passionateabout, you know, education I
know that because you know sheused to always make sure that we
were making sure we did ourhomework and reading and stuff
like that but she also told methis story about desegregating
the ice cream shop.
Do you remember that?
(17:04):
Yeah, what is that story?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I used to come home for what was known as Freedom
Ride in those days, to besegregated to restaurants in
here in Easton, and also I usedto come down here to Cambridge I
(17:35):
think I was living in NewJersey at the time to march in
Freedom Ride to desegregate theneighborhood.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
She had always told me that when I asked her about
that, she just very simply said,well, that Ida Jane liked
french vanilla ice cream.
So that's why she did thesit-in at the ice cream shop,
because her mom liked frenchvanilla ice cream, and I just
always thought that was such aninteresting way to frame that.
(18:12):
Do you so when you were doingthe freedom rides and stuff like
that, did you see any change?
Like what, what was that timelike for you and how old were
you?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I guess I was in my 20s, okay, but I remember that
there was one time and I guessthat was the.
I remember one time that Naomiand I both were here.
(18:46):
At this time she came fromBaltimore for the Freedom Ride
and I guess that's the ice creamstory.
One time, because I rememberthat my father went uptown to
(19:11):
the courthouse or to the jailbecause he heard that some of
the Freedom Riders had beenarrested.
He went to see if his daughterwas one of them.
He was seen, but he was not oneof the ones who was arrested.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
How would he have reacted if she had been arrested
?
Do you think he would have beenproud of her, or just how do
you think he would have reactedto that?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, he knew all the powers and shakers in the
county government, so thatprobably just wouldn't have been
me Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Wow, and so it didn't put his standing in jeopardy,
that my mom was doing the sitins and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It didn't do what.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It didn't put his his standing like in the community
and stuff that didn't affect hisstanding that my mom was
participating in civil rights.
No, oh, wow, that's sointeresting.
So Allison and I decided thatgetting a copy of family tree
was not sufficient, so thissummer we're gonna go visit
(20:24):
uncle deemee and hear thesestories in person and possibly
get some video.
I'm learning so much about whoI am by hearing these stories
and I think, as I live and moveand put content out into the
world, it's important for peopleto know me, and me comes with
(20:46):
all of this.
So thank you for holding thestories of my family and for
listening.
These are sacred stories.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And then I only have three more questions for you,
because I know I know what Imiss most about my mom is just
her stories and her laugh andthe way, the way that she
responded when food was reallygood, especially if it was
seafood.
I miss so many things about herbut I want to know, kind of,
what you miss about her.
And then my second question ishow would you describe her in
(21:18):
three words?
And the last question is if, ifshe, if you were her, or think
about what she would say to thisquestion, which is, um, if
there were any words to live by,what would they be?
So what would my mom say?
Some words to live by would bewords to live by would be.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Let me see.
Uh-huh, if we can pick up onthat, mm-hmm, I would like to go
to her and ask her things thatI can't quite remember, or I
would like to know more about.
(22:03):
You know she was young becauseshe was three years older.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, so the big sister.
Yeah, yeah, so the big sister,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, three words.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
She was intelligent yeah, that's for sure, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I'm trying to think yeah, it's no worries if you
don't.
The last question was if you,if my mom, could give the
younger generation some words tolive, by, what would they be?
What do you think she would say?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
study hard study.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Study, hard Study.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And achieve academically.
That's right and I feel likeshe kind of she put a love for
learning for me.
She put a love of learning inme and I'll never forget that
and I'm so thankful I got theopportunity to talk to you a
little bit about it and I can'twait to get the the tree from
you, um, because I just I feellike I'm in a place right now
(23:57):
where I'm wanting to connect tomy roots and know my story.
Do you by chance know whattribe we came from?
Did you ever go that far back?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, I'm looking at a picture here on the wall and I
think it's my great grandmotherwho was part Indian, and most
of those in this part ofMaryland were Nanticoke, so
that's probably Nanticoke Nannycoat.
(24:27):
Okay, so that's my father'snanny coat.
Wow, but I know that my fatherwas always proud that his
grandmother was part NativeAmerican.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Wow, okay, wow.
And do you know what side?
The Haman, where the Haman sidecame from.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, that was my mother's side of the family.
You know, the first person inour family that we had records
of was someone new with the nameMo Hold on.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
M-O.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, mo, mo did not have a last name.
Okay, because Mo didn't getlast name until after the
Emancipation Proclamation.
Okay, now it's the B's that.
Hey, you people gotta get somesurname.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Wow, okay, because of census.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
I guess they just need to know who these people
were, and most of the people,both the blacks, used the last
names of the families that ownedthem Right, but others did not.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
But others did not.
First person in the Heymanfamily history.
Their name was Hill, but hechanged his name to Heyman.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Wow, okay, do you know why?
Are there any records as to why?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
No, Because his name was Hill and he changed it to
Heyman.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So don't you think Jeffrey is a Heyman Mm-hmm?
But I remember when I wasyounger I knew Jeffrey well I
guess most of his family, that'smy mother if they were related
(27:19):
and he knew Jeffrey'sgrandfather.
And even though they were fromthe Pennsylvania area, they were
not Haymans who were related toher family.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, Okay.
So so Hayman is a name thatthey just made up, or that
whoever the first Hayman whochanged their name from Hill to
Haman?
Was that a made-up name?
That wasn't the master's name.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
For our family.
Yes, Haman was just the namethat was chosen.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Wow.
So they did not take the nameof the masters, they created
their own last name.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Oh my goodness, that's incredible.
Wow.
And what do you know about Mo?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
You know, we had a family reunion.
Some of the people they didn'tknow their names 90.
We didn't know Really and thegood man said he came from
Uganda to New Orleans as a slave.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So he was a slave in New Orleans, okay.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
In the Gold Falls.
That was the name.
Okay, wow.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Wow, wow, so they chose.
So you're saying they chose thename Goldsboro because there
were prominent white familieswith that last name, but they
weren't owned by somebody namedGoldsboro.
Oh, my goodness, it is soawesome.
That's just amazing.
Wow, wow, that's just amazing,wow, wow.
This has been so enlightening.
(29:50):
I can't wait to get the stufffrom you.
So Mo came from Uganda throughfrom Uganda to Louisiana, and
then the other side was NativeAmericans wow, manicote Native,
americans.
Wow, this has been so awesome.
(30:13):
Thank you so much, uncle D andme.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
I really appreciate this.
Thank you for listening To pickyour money in your heart is
donate to Subquatcher Inc andclear the path for black
students today.
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