Betty and Dan Broderick - Part 1 of 3 - Love Marry Kill

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing
we've learned and over twenty years of marriage, it's.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
That some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how
are you? I'm doing great? How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'm all right. It's feeling like a Monday.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
It is a Monday, Happy Monday.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
We're recording this a week before it's going to be released,
so if you're listening, we hope that you are having
a Friday ish Monday, but having a mondayish Monday.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Where I think we're both having on mondayish Monday.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, what's going wrong for you? Or you're just because
I'm having a not great day exactly.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm having a sympathy Monday.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well I appreciate that because you are. You are an
excellent partner. You are not at all like Dan Broderick. No,
it's a compliment.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm glad to hear that.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I've wanted to tell this case since we started the podcast.
This was one I almost told the story first, but
I've had to wait three years to tell you the story.
And I am looking forward to telling you the story.
I'm pretty sure it's going to be three parts. So
it's been you know, a lot of work, but it's
a really interesting story. It's a true crime classic. But

(01:25):
before we get into the case, do you want to
talk about our new baby.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I didn't know we had a new.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well it's not really a baby, but we have a
new version of our podcast. We posted about it on
social media and everyone was so he went in another baby.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I think I'm good. But we just.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Briefly wanted to talk about why we are starting Love
Mary Kill Just the Facts. Do you want to talk
about that for a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah. So there is a vigorous online debate about true
crime podcasts and whether people like banter or they don't
like and people feel very strongly on both sides, and
we can totally understand I think both sides as well.
We have always done banter at the beginning banter at
the end to try to keep it a little bit lighter,
but there are people that just don't like that, and
so we decided to launch a new version of the

(02:16):
podcast that is just the Facts. We're basically taking out
the front and the back end.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Apologies to our Patreon members, because we did talk about
the center Pachreon member that they're getting, you know, this
repeated content. But if I'm listening to a podcast, most
of the times I prefer not to hear a lot
of banter, either case File is one of my favorites,
or Dateline and you know, so sometimes it's it's nice
just to hear the facts. You're right, So thank you

(02:41):
to everyone who commented on social media that they love
what we're doing and you enjoy our banter enter snacks.
It is really funny to me. First, I think it
made me really sad, but whenever we got a negative review,
people would always say, and no one cares about your snack.
So we can laugh about that now because it's okay.
We like what we're doing, but we just want to

(03:03):
try to reach more people.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, some people do care about our snacks. And if
you do, stick with us on Love Mary Kill Classic,
and if you don't, then go to Love Mary Kill.
Just the facts. We won't be offended either way.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
And on Cue, our lawnmower showed up. So it's not
the neighbors this time, it's the person that mos our lot. Yeah,
but the good news is it's almost the end of
lawnmower's season. Things are cooling off here a little.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Bit with good news depending on your perspective. I don't
mind summer very much, but.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I hate summer.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I know you do.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
I don't hate it, but I'm this summer has been dreadful.
It has been really I don't think it's just for us. Actually,
if anything, I think we're cooler than the rest of
the United States. I think it's been brutal for a
lot of people. I saw a little graphic about like
the Great Lake states like Illinois and Michigan and Ohio
have been actually the only states in the country that

(03:55):
haven't had one hundred degree temperatures.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Oh wow, so we've.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Definitely had like feel like one hundred degrees.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
But yeah, yeah, Well, I am looking forward to fall
as well. I just I love fall. I just don't
like what it poortends. I don't like winter, and when
you get to fall, then it's like, oh, I.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Like all the seasons to a certain extent, but this
summer has been particularly grilling. But I brought you a snack, okay,
And I know I've been a little bit of a
hoof kick. This snack isn't I think you're gonna like it.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's not so help I saw a measuring cup in
the kitchen filled with film what looked like melted chocolate.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, did you just drink it?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
No, didn't touch it.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I saw this on Instagram the other day. I made
you homemade TwixT bites.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Ooh, that sounds really good.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
You take many Nello wafers, which I didn't even know existed,
and you take a rollo. You put the roller on
top of one mill minillo wafer, put it in the
oven for a few minutes, let it get melty, put
another one on top, and then you dip them in chocolate.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Oh man, that sounds really good.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I think you're gonna like them all right, right back.
What did you think of the homemade TwixT bites?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Ten out of ten? No notes, they're really good.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
It's good. I saw the recipe, and I know how
you feel about Nola wafers that I thought you would
probably like them. The problem is they're really they're not tiny,
but they're small, so you could easily pop twenty five
in your mouth before you know what's happened that Actually,
are you familiar with Betty Brodrick.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
I know the name but I am not familiar with
the story.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
There have been a lot of movies about her, and
a lot of books have been written about her, and
I've read three of them. She is a fascinating woman.
I would put her up there with like Diane downs
Do you remember Diane Downs. Yeah, similar to Diane Downes.
Just there's a lot going on upstairs.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
I do want to give a content warning. This episode
contains harsh language and discussion of suicide, so please listen
with care. I believe multiple people have recommended this episode,
but like I said, it's been on our to do
list since the very beginning. I think more people have
recommended this, but on our case suggestion spreadsheet I have
Jess and Jane, so thank you for recommending this case.

(06:05):
The streets of San Diego were silent and the early
hours of November fifth, nineteen eighty nine, the city still
wrapped up in darkness. A thin marine layer clung to
the air, muting the glow of the street lights. As
Betty Broderick drove her aging green Chevrolet Suburban with her
familiar Vanity plate load them up through the winding streets
in the quiet neighborhood of Marston Hills. Betty caught a

(06:27):
glimpse of her reflection and the rear view mirror as
she turned onto Dan's street. The woman staring back at
her was barely recognizable. Her once smooth face was now
bloated and lined, her hair brassy and brittle. She wasn't
sure what's stung more her deteriorated appearance or the fact
that her family husband, un wealthy La Joya friends had

(06:47):
abandoned her entirely when the divorce turned ugly. It was
just past six am and most of the city was
still asleep. Betty wasn't. She had been away for hours,
her mind spiraling over a fresh set of legal documents
that she received in the mail. She'd thought everything was
settled after the treacherous six year long legal marathon Dan

(07:07):
had put her through. She couldn't take another second of
this torture. It needed to end. Long ago, she'd predicted
it was going to be either him or her. They
both couldn't survive, and now she was going to make
sure of it. The house set at the end of
a tree lined street, a stately, two story brick colonial
with green shutters and stark white pillars, and the kind

(07:28):
of manicure lawn that graces the pages of real estate brochures.
Tacky little house, Betty thought to herself. Just months earlier,
Dan and Linda, her replacement, the younger, fresher version, had
stood in that very yard, beaming for the society pages
as if they were royalty. Betty pulled to a stop nearby,
cutting her headlights as she coasted into the curb. The

(07:50):
neighborhood slumbered peacefully. As Betty climbed out of her suburban.
She peeked inside her purse designer, of course, to verify
that her gone, A thirty eight caliber revolver that she
she'd purchased months earlier, was still there. She had swiped
the key to Dan's obscenity of a house from her
daughter Kim's room. Betty slipped the cool metal key into
her pocket. It was so quiet Betty could hear her

(08:12):
heart beating as she walked up the path, the sound
of her footsteps falling against the concrete. The key slid
easily into the lock. What kind of idiot buy is
the most ostentatious house on the block and doesn't have
a security system. Thank goodness, Dan hates dogs, Betty thought
to herself as she stepped inside. Betty knew the layout
from previous break ins. She moved silently, deliberately through the

(08:34):
house as the first pinks of daybreak began to peek
through the windows. Her hand gripped her purse as she
ascended the stairs. When Betty reached the master bedroom doorway,
she watched Dan and Linda as they lay sleeping in
their bed, the digital clock on their nightstand glowing in
a muted light, she could make out the two figures
beneath the covers. Unaware that their carefully constructed new life

(08:55):
was about to end. She raised the revolver, her hand
surprisingly steady, decide, and squeezed the trigger, quickly releasing five
bullets from the chamber. What happened in the seconds that
followed would leave two people dad, spark a media firestorm,
and transformed Betty Broderick into one of the most notorious
and fascinating figures in American true crime. Her appearance on

(09:16):
OPRAH became the show's second highest rated episode ever. Two
movies of the Week would be made about her. They
didn't come close to capturing her essence, because while plenty
of women have been scorn, there has only ever been
one Betty Broderick, and she was never going to slip
quietly into the night. Here is her story. Marita Cutler
and Frank Piskeglia married just before he was sent overseas

(09:40):
to fight in World War Two. Both came from Catholic families,
Marita from a devout Irish household in the Bronx and
Frank from an Italian family. He was bilingual, speaking both
English and Italian. Marita's father, Michael Cutler, served as a
detective with the New York Police Department, while her mother
worked as a school tea creature. The couple had two daughters,

(10:02):
Marita and Catherine. Education was important to the Biskeglias. Both
Marita and Catherine went on to graduate from college with
degrees in education. After marrying her husband, Frank, Marita stayed
with her parents and sisters in the Bronx in their
apartment building called Hope Place while he was away at war.
It was during this time that she gave birth to
their first child, Marita Jane. When Frank finally returned home,

(10:25):
the couple moved into an apartment just across the hall
from her parents. Soon after, their son, Frank Junior, was born,
and on November seventh, nineteen forty seventh, they welcomed their
third child, Elizabeth Ann, better known as Betty.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Kind of unusual for a child to be named after
their mother. You don't hear that very often.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, I think that obviously was a family name.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I wonder how that made Betty feel, though, because both kids,
both the other kids were named after their parents and Betty, I.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Think everything made Betty angry.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
With their quickly expanding family, the Biskeglias moved to the
suburbs of New York, settling an east Chester, where Marita
soon gave birth to their final two children, Claire and Gerard.
Frank worked alongside his brothers and their family business as plasterers. Catherine,
Marita's sister or aunt Kay as they called her, moved
just a few houses down and had four children of

(11:16):
her own. The cousins were best of friends, spending lots
of time together. Marita, who had depended on public transportation
while living in the city, refused to learn how to
drive after moving to the suburbs, something that left her
feeling restless and often bored. Betty referred to her as
the original desperate housewife. Moody and frustrated, often taking it

(11:37):
out on her kids. Betty remembered her childhood as mostly happy,
but she said she always had to tread carefully around Marita.
She never knew which version of her mother she was
going to get, but the best day of the week
was Sunday, when the large, noisy family got together for
a big Italian feast. Betty later reflected on her mother
and credit her with raising her and her sister well

(11:58):
and teaching them social grace and always making sure that
they had the very best of everything, even when money
was tight. Betty was raised in a strict Catholic home.
The children all attended parochial school from kindergarten to high
school and even college. Betty was a good girl and
wanted to please her parents and the nun, leading a
somewhat sheltered life. When her youngest sibling was born, Betty

(12:20):
was ten, She doated on the baby and impressed everyone
with how good she was with him, though she was
still a child herself. At just twelve years old, Betty
began babysitting. She was soon in high demand around the neighborhood,
eventually becoming the regular sitter for the Think family every day.
After school. From three to seven, Betty helped Missus Fink
with her three boisterous young children. She worked for the

(12:43):
family through her college years. Betty loved working for the
Happy family and said that she modeled her own family
after them. At five eleven, blond and beautiful, Betty became
a part time model in addition to her nannying, and
also took on another job as a hostess at a restaurant,
all while maintaining good grades in high school. Betty threw
herself into work, determined to avoid being at home whenever

(13:05):
possible due to the strained relationship she had with her mother.
So Betty was a really busy young woman. She's working
three jobs and going to school, and she was dating too.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, that's a lot to take on.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Later in Betty's life, when things became bad, she said
this about her parents. I love my dad and my mom.
They're both good people, but they've led such nice, peaceful
lives that they simply can't face anything unpleasant, And so
they don't face it. They go to Paris instead and
sing tra la la la la, and just pretend nothing's happening.
Betty was a hard worker, and before long she had

(13:39):
saved enough money to buy her first car, a green convertible. MG.
She couldn't have been prouder. So again, Betty's in high
school and she bought a new car by herself.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
That sounds nice.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, it's adorable. I had to google a picture of it,
but it's a really cute car. Betty attended college at
Mount Saint Vincent's on the banks of the Hudson River.
She had acquired an enviable wardrobe and a taste for
the finer things from her modeling days, owning shoes from Gucci, Urmez,
scarves and pearls from Tiffany's. She made a lot of
new friends in college and continued to be a good

(14:11):
girl with perfect grades.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Daniel Thomas Broderick the third was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
in November nineteen forty four, the eldest of nine children,
five boys, four girls in a devout Irish Catholic family.
His mother, Yolanda, was pregnant with him when his father,
Dan Senior went overseas to fight in the war. When
he returned, Dan joined his family's successful lumber business. He

(14:35):
was a heavy drinker with a volatile temper, abusive toward
both his wife and children, and the household was often
ruled by fear of him. The Brodericks were well off,
but the children were all taught the importance of frugality,
self sufficiency, and education. All nine children attended college. Nothing
was ever handed to them. Being the oldest and his

(14:55):
father's namesake, the pressure to succeed was greatest on Dan,
and he didn't disappoin his parents. They were very proud
of him. He was a hard worker, a natural leader,
and clear minded. Dan willed himself to be successful. He
and his four brothers were all expected to attend Notre
Dame like their father before them.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Nine kids and they all went to college.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
That is pretty amazing. I'm guessing they all made they
work their own way through college, paid their own way.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Probably the only one that I can speak for is Dan,
and he certainly did.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Used to be a little bit cheaper back then, but
still that's pretty impressive. Betty and Dan met in November
nineteen sixty five, days before her eighteenth birthday. They met
at a party in South Bend, Indiana after a Notre
Dame USC football game. Years later, attending the annual Notre
Dame USC game became a beloved tradition for them. Once

(15:46):
after their separation, Dan, feeling nostalgic and more than a
little drunk, called Betty from the stadium. He told her
how much he had once loved her, even as he
attended the game with another woman. It devastated Betty. The
trip to No Notre Dame in nineteen sixty five was
the first time Betty's parents had allowed her to go
away for the weekend with friends, and only because her

(16:07):
friend's brother was a student there and had agreed to
chaperone the freshman girls. While sitting at a table with
friends during a party, Dan approached Betty and asked if
she had a pen. She handed him her silver Tiffany
pen and watched as he scrawled his name on the stark,
white linen tablecloth. Daniel T. Broderick the third MD, with
an A in parentheses after When Betty asked what the

(16:29):
A was for, he responded coyly almost he explained that
he had applied to both law school and medical school
and had decided on attending Cornell Medical School. The next fall,
Betty returned home to New York, never expecting to hear
from Dan Broderick again. Unbeknownst to her. That first night,
he told friends that he was going to marry Betty.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Did you say that when you met me?

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Uh No, not right away. It wasn't long, did well,
it wasn't long after we met. I did tell people
that I thought I could see myself spending the rest
of my life with you, but it was probably a
couple weeks in.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Wow, it's a little type and rich, I told everyone.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
I'm sure you did. While Dan slipped from Betty's mind,
he couldn't stop thinking about her, sending her flowers and
a telegram that he was coming to New York for
the Notre Dame Navy game and wanted to see her again.
Dan checked a few boxes on Betty's list. He didn't
smoke or drink excessively, he was Catholic, didn't believe in divorce,
and he had the ambition she was looking for in

(17:31):
a partner. But Betty preferred the men she dated to
be tall and athletic, and unfortunately for Dan, he was
neither of those things. She only dated men she saw
as potential husbands, and in that regard, Dan fell short.
Literally he was an inch shorter than her and wore
tortoise shell glasses, geek city, Betty described him. When Dan

(17:52):
arrived in New York for medical school in September nineteen
sixty six, Betty tried to pawn him off to her friends,
but he only had eyes for her. Because he was
new in town. Betty took him around and introduced him
to people in places. Soon she found herself charmed by
Dan Broderick. He was adventurous and fun. He made her laugh,
but there were red flags early on. Dan was controlling,

(18:16):
insisted on being in charge and having things go exactly
his way. Betty, like most women raised in the nineteen sixties,
was taught to be polite and submissive to men, so
she kept calm and carried on.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I'm so glad that I was not raised in the sixties.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, we'll be back after a break.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Jan wanted to date Betty exclusively, get engaged and Mary
soon after, but Betty was adamant she wanted to finish
college before settling down. She continued to date a roster
of men, which is likely what made her more intriguing
to Dan. Betty described Dan to the La Times quote
he was very ambitious, very intelligent, and very funny, and

(19:02):
I am those three things. We were from the same
kind of background. We both wanted the same things in
the future, wealth, social standing, and a large family. All
I wanted was to be a mommy. He promised me
the moon. The guy asked me to marry him every
day for three years. Betty finished college in just three years,
earning a double major in nursing and early childhood education

(19:24):
with a minor in English. After completing a semester of
student teaching, Betty landed a job in January nineteen seventy
teaching third grade in east Chester, New York. It was
a perfect fit. She'd grown up in the area, knew
many of the families at the school, and her aunt
Kay even taught there. Plus it was one of the
best paying school districts in the area, which was a

(19:45):
nice bonus. She finally recalled this as a very happy
time in her life. Soon after, Dan proposed with a
custom engagement ring. This time Betty said yes. Her mother
planned an elaborate wedding to Betty's dismay, deciding every detail
without consulting her daughter. When Dan refused to wear the
morning coat that Marita had chosen for him to wear,

(20:06):
opting instead for a pin strite suit and Paisley tie.
It caused a rift between the two that would never
be repaired or forgotten.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Oh that seems like not a great cause for a
lifelong rift.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
You know, you don't think so. Wow, Well you are
not a woman, so you wouldn't understand. But well, it
was sad because Betty in her book described this situation
and she was really mad that her mom planned everything
and really didn't ask her opinion. It was really frustrating
for Betty because you know, she had dreamed of planning

(20:41):
her own wedding.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
I think her mom was kind of a society person
and she wanted things her way to impress her friends.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
They were married in April nineteen sixty nine, the year
of Woodstock, But Betty and Dan were not hippies or feminists.
They were both polished and traditional, with their sights set
up a picture perfect, upwardly mobile life. Since she was
a young girl, Betty had imagined her future as at
a voted housewife, building a family and home with the
man she loved, But the reality of her marriage to

(21:11):
Dan quickly shattered those dreams. With Dan still in medical school,
the financial burden of rent and bills fell squarely on
her shoulders. Almost immediately, Betty began to regret her decision.
She later claimed that Dan did too, admitting to a
friend that he had second thoughts about the marriage almost
as soon as it happened. These cracks grew more visible
during their honeymoon in Saint Thomas, where Betty got her

(21:33):
first shoe glimpse of Dan's drinking. Their wedding night was
nothing like she had hoped. Her first sexual experience was
hurried and crude, with Dan falling asleep on top of
her without even bothering to undress. Betty would later allege
that he'd even canceled the hotel's housekeeping service, insisting that
she cleaned the room herself an actively maid.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Oh that's not cool.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
When they returned from their honeymoon, there were no units
available and married housing at Cornell, so Betty moved into
Dan's tiny dorm room. Despite Betty being the breadwinner, Dan
took over their finances. In her book Telling On Myself,
Betty wrote about getting married at a young age, quote,
I went from very strict protective parents directly into the
arms of a very strict, controlling husband without one single

(22:20):
day on my own, where I could have made my
own choices and tried to live my own life. I
never thought about what I was missing then, because you
can't miss what you've never had, Or at least that's
what I used to believe. He was always afraid I
would leave him, and I wish that I could have
left him. I wanted to. I wanted to annul the
whole thing right away, but I knew that could never
happen in my family. I couldn't leave him, and I

(22:42):
couldn't go home. Besides to Catholics marriages forever, Dan knew
he had me where he wanted me, trapped.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
That does not sound like a good way to start
out married.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Like exactly like from the beginning, I think they were
somewhat doomed.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, it's too bad.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Shortly after their honeymoon, when robust b Betty found herself
with persistent bleeding, nausea, and heartburn, she was shocked to
learn that she was pregnant. She blamed her Catholic school
education for not knowing about birth control, assuming that Dan,
who was studying to be a doctor, would know how
to prevent such an occurrence. Until they were ready to
start a family, ideally after Dan had graduated and they

(23:20):
had more than one income to support their family. Betty
was still teaching when Kim was born on January twentieth,
nineteen seventy. She worked her whole pregnancy. Betty had very
hard pregnancies. She fled throughout her pregnancy, and she had
a lot of sickness. She worked like the entire pregnancy.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
That's rough.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
On the night that Kim was born, the Broaderies were
hosting a party at their house. Betty, feeling labor coming on,
prepared food and entertained the guests while waiting for her
husband to turn up. But Dan didn't show up until
nearly midnight, drunk with a woman on his arm.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Boy.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
By this time, Betty's labor pains were intense. After they
arrived at the hospital and a taxi, Dan promptly fell
asleep in the waiting room. Luckily for Betty, it was
a quick and easy delivery. When the doctor wrote Dan
to tell him the good news, the two of them
went to a bar to celebrate.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Oh good Lord, she wish.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
That you lived in the nineteen sixties. It was a
man's world. I don't I mean, it's still a man's world.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
But it is comical. I know it's sad, but I
think of like the show mad Men, and I just
remembered the one scene when I think it was Pete
his wife had a baby, and he's like in a
meeting and they're like, oh, your wife had a girl,
and he was like, okay, great, and then they go
back to the meeting. It's like, oh, man, just a
different world.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Like it's hard to believe that dads weren't allowed in
the I don't know if they were, they weren't allowed,
or they just didn't do it happen.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Well, Dan pursued his education. Betty left her teaching job
and took on babysitting so she could remain at home
with Kim. After completing medical school, Dan changed course, deciding
he'd rather practice law than medicine, and enrolled at Harvard
Law School. Betty had a feeling that Dan's desire to
can continue his education had something to do with his
desire to avoid the draft. When a draft notice eventually materialized,

(25:07):
he conspired with medical friends to write him letters of
deferment due to his non existent bleeding ulcers. I am
not sure if that story was true or not. I
found most of the things that Betty said to be true.
M m, but that was Betty's accounts, okay.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
While Dan was in his first year of law school,
Betty was miserable in their cold, sparsely finished basement apartment.
When she found out she was pregnant again. She longed
to return to teaching, but with no one to care
for baby Kim, it wasn't possible. And then, to make
matters worse, her beloved little MG the car that she
had worked so hard to buy, was stolen. To save money,

(25:43):
Dan had canceled their auto insurance and they couldn't afford
a new car. Their financial situation was dire, but Dan
insisted on wearing expensive suits and bow ties to class,
determined to make the best impression on fellow students and faculty.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Throughout the remainder of Dan's life, fast was always very
important to him. He dressed well, but he also dressed
a little quirky.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Did he always wear a bow tie?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Think he frequently wore a bow tie.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I've never met a guy who wears a bowtie regularly
that I liked.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Wow, What about or Redenbacker?

Speaker 2 (26:16):
I never met him Bill Nye again, never met him.
Maybe I would like him, but Betty had to take
the bus everywhere, even to do laundry, lugging soiled diapers
on the bus through winter snow. One night, Dan agreed
to stay with ten month old Kim while she went
to the laundromat. Betty returned home to Dan yelling and
slapping the baby. Furious, Betty packed, told Dan she was

(26:39):
divorcing him, and left with Kim to stay with her parents.
When she arrived, her mother, with whom Betty had never
had a good relationship, told her she could stay one night.
She had made her bed with Dan and she needed
to return to her marriage. There was no lifeboat. In
July nineteen seventy two, their second daughter, Lee was born.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
In some places, I heard her referred to as Kathy Lee,
but Betty called her Lee, and I believe that's what
she has gone by most of her life. But her
official name, I think is Kathy Lee.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Gotcha. Kim had been an easy baby, but Lee was
challenging with constant colic. Betty said that Lee was most
like her. Betty was soon pregnant again with her third child.
She considered getting an abortion because she was exhausted caring
for two children. Dan was never home and refused to
help with the children. When he was, he convinced Betty

(27:30):
that he would change and pleaded with her to keep
the baby. When she went into labor prematurely at seven months,
during a snowstorm, Dan was away skiing with friends. Betty
was forced to leave the girls with a neighbor and
call the police for a ride to the hospital. Sadly,
after four days, the baby died. Betty became deeply depressed,
and Dan was cold and unemotional. Only twenty three, she

(27:52):
attempted to take her life by swallowing every pill she
could find in their small apartment. She was surprised when
she awoke the next month. Warning Dan promised her life
would soon be better, but it wasn't all difficult. Both
knew their struggles would ease once Dan graduated. At night,
they would lie in bed, imagining the house they would
buy and the trips they would take. They were both

(28:13):
always looking for ways to enrich themselves. Betty enrolled in
a French cooking class, while Dan took flying lessons. In
nineteen seventy four, Dan twenty six, graduated from Harvard Law
School with an MD and his new law degree. He
could write his own ticket. As a medical malpractice attorney.
He got a job at a large, prestigious San Diego

(28:34):
law firm, Gray Carrie, Aimes and Fry, making about thirty
thousand dollars a year or one hundred and eighty thousand
in today's dollars.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
There is a lot of money in this case. And
sometimes I give you the amount adjusted for inflation, but
most of the events took place in the mid nineteen eighties.
And if I don't give you the adjusted for inflation amount,
just multiply at times three.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Okay, But this was his new job. His new job
was in the early seventies or seventies.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
So that's why it's Yeah, it's a lot more than
three times.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
But yeah, Lance Schaeffer, who worked alongside Dan, recalled quote
he was a superstar. Dan was the kind of guy
who made all the rest of us look like loafers.
In his last year at the firm, he built around
twenty five hundred hours when eighteen hundred is considered tops, so.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
That comes out to about ten hours a day, seven
days a week. So he was working a lot. Yeah,
and that doesn't account for the amount of times that
he had to socialize after work, and these are billable hours,
so you know, not every hour that you work as billable.
So right, Dan was working very hard.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh, I guess so. Dan was also active in the
San Diego Bar Association, eventually serving as president, and he
occasionally taught law classes, but those long hours came at
a price. His wife and children often felt like an afterthought.
He never called home. It was against the culture of
the law firm. A coworker said, anybody who calls home

(29:56):
is a whimp.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (29:58):
I mean things times have changed a lot, and I
don't think that would fly.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Anyone who calls home is a good husband and father exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Betty tried to keep it in perspective, reminding herself that
Dan was building a career and reputation that one day
would pay off, giving him more time for family.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
So it was all an investment in their future.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, it's such a that's kind of a deluded way
of thinking, though, you know, it's it's just gonna be
for a while and everything's going to be better. Although
he was making good money, more than half of his
paycheck went towards paying down his student debt. Money was tight,
and Dan was resentful for any money that went toward
household expenses. Decades before most American families carried credit card debt,

(30:41):
Dan and Betty leveraged their credit, putting most of their
expenses on credit and borrowing from one to pay another,
a practice that Dan continued even when he had great wealth.
Betty returned to teaching after the move to California. On weekends,
she worked at a jewelry store and as a hostess
at a restaurant. When Betty found out she was pregnant
shortly after the move, she had an abortion. A few

(31:04):
months later, she was pregnant once again, but it ended
in a miscarriage. Dan opposed the use of birth control.
He claimed he didn't believe in God, which made his
refusal to let Betty use it all the more puzzling
to her. She saw it as another means of control.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
In the early years of their marriage, the Brodericks rarely
stayed in one place for long, moving nearly every six months.
Their first house was lost in a devastating fire that
destroyed all of their belongings, but an insurance settlement made
it possible for them to start over. By the time
their third child, Daniel, Ty Broderick. The fourth dan Forth,
also known as Danny, was born in nineteen seventy six.

(31:42):
They were ready to put down permanent brutes. I really
love the name dan Forth.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
That's really cute, roll off the tongue.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
That year, they purchased a five bedroom home on Coral
reef Avenue in San Diego for one hundred and thirty
thousand dollars, modest by La Joya standards and without this
weeping ocean views that the area was known for. The
house nevertheless became the heart of their family life, place
they would cherish for the next decade. In the nineteen seventies,

(32:10):
La Joya was a picture perfect slice of the southern
California coast, rugged cliffs spilling into churquoise coves, palm lined
streets leading to elegant boutiques and art galleries, and a
community where a country club, luncheons, and charity galas filled
the social calendar. It was an affluent enclave, insulated from
the turbulence of the outside world, where manicured lawns and

(32:33):
ocean view homes signaled both success and exclusivity. Dan and
Betty Broderick entered into this sun so carefully curated world
with big dreams, ready to carve out their place among
La Joya's elite. Did you have a grandmother lived in
San Diego?

Speaker 2 (32:48):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, And you visit it?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Oh? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (32:51):
And what was your impression of San Diego?

Speaker 2 (32:53):
I loved it. It was such a beautiful area. The
weather is always perfect and it's great.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Anywhere along the California coast is a beautiful place too,
for sure. Well, the way Betty described it, it sounds
very Stepford wives to me. No one ever talked about affairs, alcoholism,
or God forbid the D word. Do you know what
the D word is?

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh? Divorce? Yeah, okay. I was thinking. I was going
through my head only what could that be? Divorce? Okay.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Dan still kept tight control of the money. Seven years
into their marriage, Betty bought her first washer and dryer
with money she earned herself. That's really surprising to me.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
That is.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
In nineteen seventy eight, Betty was pregnant again. In the
intervening years, she had another abortion and miscarried. She decided
to make this her final pregnancy. It all been difficult,
with extreme nausea throughout. She'd been pregnant nine times and
ten years when Rhett was born, she had a tubal ligation. Betty,

(33:50):
now thirty two, thought the decision was one of the
best of her life is it gave her agency over
her life for the first time in a long time.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
So how many kids did they have? Have? Total? Ones?

Speaker 1 (34:01):
They had four Kim Lee, Danny and Wrex. Gotcha to
our extra money. Betty became the neighborhood babysitter, a role
that came naturally after her years of nanny ying. Children
adored her, and she was the fun mom who always
had room for one more at the kitchen table or
in the backyard. While some of La Hooya's socialite mothers
were known for their designer dresses and perfectly styled hair,

(34:24):
Betty was more likely to be found in a comfortable sweatsuit,
playing sports with her kids in the yard, singing silly
songs with them, or inventing games for them to play.
Her friend Candy Westbrook said quote, I remember going over
there and try to take her shopping or to a
movie or something, and there would be Betty standing in
her kitchen saying, whoops, no, not today, We're doing cookies

(34:44):
or biscuits or fudge. She always had a half dozen
kids around her, splashing dough everywhere. The place was a mess,
but she loved it. Kids were her whole life. She
was a complete mother Earth type. Once I went over
and she was dressed like Miss Piggy. Betty would do
any thing to make a little kid laugh. Family meant
everything to Betty, and it painted her deeply that her

(35:05):
husband had little interest in spending time at home with
her and the children. Betty is a very funny lady.
She made me laugh out loud several times during her book.
She's kind of a mean girl, but also just witty,
self deprecating. But when she was telling her story, when
she got to about this point in her book, she wrote, quote,
hold your horses. I know you're probably getting bored with

(35:27):
all these little details. Do you want me to hurry
up and get to the good parts? The parts you
see in the movies about my life, the once the
District Attorney helped make. But stay with me, be patient,
because all of the little threads and stories are essential
to the tapestry of my life, of who I am
and how our marriage worked.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well. That's a good summary of why we often spend
a fair amount of time upfront as well. Can I
talk about the backgrounds of the people involved, because.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
I love having a lot of background. I hate when
we can't always get it. After five years at the
law firm, in nineteen seventy eight, Dan left the part
practison decided to set out on his own. He opened
a five hundred thousand dollars line of credit to keep
them afloat until he could reel in some big money.
The Rodericks were already heavily into debt at this time,

(36:12):
and suiting Dan's office with top of the line furnishing
set them back even further. As his image was very
important to him, but his earning potential was enormous. We
didn't really talk about this back when Dan was getting
his degree, but a double law degree, a medical degree,
I mean that's very impressive, and really.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I would think, yeah, you could write your own ticket
pretty much.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Right, I mean, your earning potential is essentially limitless. This
was a surprising sweet spot in the Brodericks marriage. Dan
respected Betty's opinions on decorating and starting his new law office.
They were finally partners in something. Betty said Dan had
the prettiest office in town and it was all her vision.
Dan was smart, respected and admired by his peers and judges.

(37:00):
As his reputation grew, defendants and their attorneys would fold
in subtle lawsuits rather than face him in court. While
Dan was busy growing his law practice, Betty threw herself
into life as a suburban mom with PTA meetings, orthodontist appointments,
and soccer games. She loved hosting Dan's clients and hosting
dinner parties. She also was known for hosting elaborate children's

(37:23):
birthday parties. Betty just really loved to throw a party,
but she also found time for charity work. She taught
Bible study and Sunday school. Betty made friends easily and
was always fun to be around. She was a good
listener and quick to lend a helping hand. She liked
to carry plastic insects in her purse. When at fancy restaurants,
she'd place a bug on her plate just to frighten

(37:46):
the weight staff. But privately, Betty struggled. She craved intimacy
from her partner that he was never able to provide.
She tried so hard to make Dan proud of her,
but he barely noticed her. He was so wrapped up
in his upward mobility that he never stopped to think
what she might need for him, Not to mention their kids. Yeah,
when Rhett was for Betty got her real estate license.

(38:09):
She wanted to enter the workforce and become successful in
her own right, but Dan didn't want her to, so
she didn't. I wanted Betty to be a fascinating woman
when I read her book, If anything, I think that
she downplayed how dynamic she was, Like, you know, you've
already learned, like she could do all these things at
the same time, and when the marriage was going well,

(38:32):
she did them seamlessly. A lot of people were in
awe of her, And I think that she could have
been very successful in her own career, yes, had she
chosen that path.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, it seems like she had a lot of talents
and was a hard worker. And yeah, definitely like people
liked her. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Lawsuits can take years to go to trial or settle,
and sometimes just as long to get payment. But a
few years into his private practice the money started rolling in.
Dan had set the goal of making one million dollars
a year, and in nineteen eighty three he made that
goal and then surpassed it. Betty said quote. We used
to go to la Vencia for dinner to celebrate when

(39:09):
he won a one million dollar settlement. But finally we
were there three times in one week, so we decided
that it wasn't worth making a big deal over that
maybe we should move it up to ten million dollars.
It doesn't mean that he was getting you know, he.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Got right the settlement.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
That still he was a lot of funny. We'll be
back after a break.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Dan had always been tight with money, but as the
big settlement started rolling in, his grip began to loosen.
The housekeeper's hours expanded to five days a week, and
ou Per was hired, along with a gardener and a poolman.
The family began traveling more, jetting off on European vacations
and ski trips. Betty, now more fashion conscious, invested freely

(39:55):
in her wardrobe. Her new favorite hobby was revenge shopping.
Every time Dan made her mad, which was often, she
would go shopping. Once, on a trip to New York,
when she became particularly enraged, she bought a pink and
lavender sequined Bob Mackie gown for seven thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Seven thousand dollars time, remember multi.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, that's a nice gown.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
A gown.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
She was just as generous with the children, enrolling them
in every imaginable sport and class, and spoiling not just
them but their friends as well. Almost overnight, their lifestyle transformed.
Dinners out, a grand piano, a sparkling new swimming pool,
a huge backyard trampoline, designer clothing, club memberships, all now

(40:40):
within reach. For Father's Day, Betty even surprised Dan with
a speedboat so they could water ski together. But with
the wealth came a different kind of poverty. Dan was
more successful than ever, yet increasingly absent from the lives
of his wife and children. While many of the Lahoya
mothers poured their energy into social obligations, charity work, and

(41:00):
glamorous fundraising balls, Betty carved out a different identity. She
was the fun mom, the one all the neighborhood kids
wanted to be around. Her house was always full of activity,
and she thrived in the chaos. Girl Scouts, boy Scouts, coaching,
soccer Load him up, as her license plate read, she
was there for all of it. It was the life
she had dreamt of since she'd been a nanny in

(41:21):
her youth.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
It was really devastating though, because as active as Betty
was in her kid's life at this point, Dan really
was not there.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Oh yeah, I can't imagine he had any time for
the kids, given his the work that he was doing
in the We're.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Going to talk about it a little more in a minute.
But he was a one man show.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
He didn't have anyone else working in his office with him.
He did it all on his own.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Dan Broderick had always been attractive in a boyish, slightly
nerdy way, but his newfound wealth, along with a sharper haircut,
contact lenses, and a no's job, transformed him into a
handsome man. Dan's confidence had never been in short supply,
but success gave him a new swagger that many women
found irresistible. His wife, however, wasn't impressed the charms she

(42:06):
once saw and now felt like an act. Everything was
for appearances. Betty began cheekily calling Dan count, Do money count?

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Do money count?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Your money got it. With their new wealth, they began
looking at larger homes along the San Diego coast line,
but Dan hedged, and Betty had a feeling she knew why.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
So at this point, Dan is making We're not really sure,
but probably between two and three million dollars. And they
had redone their home, like everything was redone, like from
the you know, the ceilings to the flooring. And I
think that Betty, you know, when she got bored, she
just wanted to spend more money. So they had been
searching for a new, grander home, probably an ocean front property,

(42:48):
for at least a year or two. But Dan kept saying, yeah,
that one's not quite right, that one's not quite right.
And it was just kind of a constant battle with them.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Okay. Dan's drinking became more of a habit, and after
a second humiliating dui, Betty recognized he had a serious problem.
Once she knew he'd never truly confront she drew a line,
limiting her presence with him at social gatherings and refusing
to drive with him. Betty shifted gears to focus on
the children, while Dan immersed himself in work. It was

(43:19):
a turning point in their marriage, and Betty sensed his
grip on her loosening, not because he had changed, but
because his attention was shifting. And it wasn't work that
was distracting him this time, but another.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Woman Jane had stopped giving Betty compliments years ago, not
since their early courtship in New York, but it never
bothered her. She was confident in her beauty, intelligence, and humor.
She was Dan's greatest asset. His friends and business associates
all adored her, and Dan seemed oblivious to other women.
But one night at a party, her ears perked up

(43:52):
when she overheard him say, isn't she beautiful? He wasn't
talking about Betty, but about a twenty one year old
receptionist office building named Linda COULKENA Betty later said quote,
I was shocked that this was the girl he thought
was so beautiful. She was just another skiddy, little bimbo
with a gap between her front teeth. She had all

(44:12):
those hair, all poofed up like Bridget Bardow bobby pins,
and the whole bit, not a streak of blonde in it.
I was, to say the least underwhelmed. She couldn't hold
a candle. To me, I was prettier, I was smarter,
I was classier. It never occurred to me that Dan
would be stupid enough to throw his family away for
this office girl. It was just too much of a cliche.

(44:35):
To believe.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Tell us how you really feel, Betty.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
She really loves to tell people how she feels, especially
about Dan and Linda. And spoiler alert, Linda is stunning.
Betty was also stunning. But you know, Linda was not
like some gap tooth bimbo. She was a beautiful woman
in her own right. At first, Betty remained in the
dark about the affair, but the whispers around town grew louder,

(44:58):
and soon friends began reporting back after seeing Linda and
Dan together outside of the office. In the summer of
nineteen eighty three, Betty took the children on a five
week camping tour to the National Parks of the West.
It was a great adventure, but Betty was crestfallen that
Dan skipped the trip. Family time together meant everything to her.
Dan met them for a couple of days, but he

(45:20):
was grouchy, cold, and distant. It seemed that his affair
with a receptionist in his office building had heated up
in her absence, but Betty was not ready for a
confrontation yet. Upon her return, Dan informed her that he'd
hired a new assistant to help him manage his workload.
Betty was thrilled Dan had been a one man show
since he'd opened his office, and the workload was enormous.

(45:43):
She'd hoped this would mean more time together at home,
but when she discovered that the new assistant was Linda Culkina,
the woman she'd already suspected of having an affair with Dan,
it was the ultimate betrayal. Something inside her broke, never
to be fixed. To Betty, it was shocking Dan had
become the very cliche he once mocked, approaching forty with

(46:05):
a red sports car and a mushy, younger girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
So Linda was his receptionist originally, but now he was
hiring her to be like more of a assistant, like more.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Of a Linda was the receptionist for this big office building.
Dan was just one of the offices and that's where
she started. So she was hired to be a paralegal.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Okay, but basically now she was going to be full
time with him.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
With Dan, just just the two of them.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yeah. One afternoon, while Betty and Dan drove to a
wedding together, she claims that he told her that he
was bored with his life, bored with her. He didn't
love her anymore. He told her she was old, fat, ugly,
and boring. Without Betty's knowledge, Dan had paid cash for
two lots in a new development called Fairbanks Ranch. It
seems that Dan had been preparing for his departure from

(46:54):
their marriage for quite some time. Later, Betty learned that
Dan's previous law firm had written up books for their
clients called Steps to be taken when preparing for divorce.
Step one, don't let the other party know what you
were up to, oach. Yeah, I think that's where we're
going to stop for part one.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Okay, well we'll come back for part two because I'm interested.
You don't have a choice and what's going to happen?
Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
What do you think of Betty brought erick so far?

Speaker 2 (47:21):
She seems like a somewhat complicated person. Like you said
at the beginning, there's a lot going on in her mind.
She seems like she has a lot of talents, Like
she seems very smart, very capable, seems like she loves kids.
So I mean, I think I know what's going to happen.
But she seems like a you know, overall good person
and wanted to make her marriage work, And seems like

(47:44):
Dan was really not not into it.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, where Dan and Betty ready for marriage? Doesn't They
got married so long?

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah? How old?

Speaker 1 (47:53):
He was twenty and no, I'm sorry. He was twenty
three and she was twenty. They're three years apart in eg.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, it's pretty young, especially, and you know, if you're
if you're going into a marriage and you've basically divorce
is not even something that would be an option. You
better be really sure, yeah, that you're getting into a
marriage that's going to last forever. It's hard. It's hard
to know even, you know, no matter what age you are,
but I think when you're that young, it's really hard
to know.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
What Also seems like Dan did change a little bit
once they were married, Like she saw a few red
flags that he was controlling. I don't think she thought
he was going to take over the finances. She literally
never knew where their money was and how much they had. Yeah,
and that was a big problem for her.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Well, and you said originally too, she liked the fact
that he didn't he wasn't a big drinker, And it
really turns out that he was a big drinker. Maybe
kept that from her in the early days.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Well, and for me, I lived like I went to college,
but then I lived on my own for a few
years before we commingles, and I'm so glad that I
got to do that. Yeah, and I know not everyone
is fortunate enough to be able to do that. I
mean I had like the crappiest little apartment. I mean
it actually I actually loved it, but yeah, you know,
it wasn't the best, but it was cheap and it

(49:05):
was what I sport, and it was mine and I
really am grateful that I had that opportunity.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, I think it's great to be able to have
that opportunity, and it is sad that she never had that.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
So in nineteen sixty five, the average age of marriage
was twenty three point two years old for men and
twenty point eight years old for women. So actually, Dan
and Betty like right on the dock, kay, right there?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah, you know what it is now. I'm just it is.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Thirty for men and twenty eight for women.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
OK.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
So you know, definitely we've made some progress. I don't know,
I shouldn't say progress, but you know, people are definitely
getting married older and having children older. Yeah, that were
not for everyone. You know, some people get married young
and have a great life. Together, but it doesn't always
work out that way. What do you think Betty could
have done differently when she saw the warning signs?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Which warning signs do you mean specifically, because there were
quite a few.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
It seems like, well, I guess I mean before where
they were married, when she saw that Dan was kind
of being was being controlling with her.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Oh, well, do.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
You think but Dan probably just wanted a submissive wife.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, And I mean I think it was so common
back then too, that that was just the way it was.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Women were supposed to be more submissive.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, but I mean I.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Think Betty naturally wasn't a submissive woman, so I think
the cards were stacked against her for that anyway. Like
if she would have had the perfect husband, maybe it
would have worked out. But Dan just wasn't there supporting
her in the ways that she might have needed more support.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, it's a tough situation, but I guess, you know,
I wish that she had communicated up front that like,
this is not going to work for me, right, If
this is the way you're going to be, then I'm out,
you know.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
But what do you think drew Betty to Dan? Because
initially she was like, I like tall athletic men and
you're a short geek.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Well. The one thing that I find interesting about Betty
that seems somewhat contradictory is they sort of seem like
they were really into money and social standing, like that
was mentioned a few times early on, but at the
same time, it seems like she was more like she
wanted to be more of a mom and she just
wanted to have fun and do activities with the kids,
and it seems like the status wasn't as important to her.

(51:14):
So it sort of seems like she went with him
because of the potential of his thereat and status, but
it doesn't seem like that's necessarily what she really wanted
to seeking.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
She wanted to portray herself as someone and even in
her book she was like, oh, I never cared about clothes,
but you did, because like when she was a model,
when she was a teenager, she was really happy that
she could buy some Gucci things or whatever. So, yeah,
I think she wanted to portray herself as this you know,
earthy mom, right, but she was drawn to who isn't

(51:44):
drawn to nice things? I love nice things. Yeah, do
you think that Dan and Betty were too similar? They
had very similar backgrounds.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
I mean, I don't know. Maybe I think I think
it's good to be somewhat similar. I think we're fairly
similar in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
I don't think we were. I think, I so, okay,
you're gonna like laugh at me, but in some ways
I see myself and Betty because I'm kind of a
feisty lady too. I'm never going to kill you in
your sleep spoiler alert. But you know, I think we.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Had somewhat similar background.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
I definitely in our early years I fought more with you,
and then you just never took you never took the bait,
and so I kind of gave.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
My strategy work. It was a long game.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
But I mean, I'm still happy to fight, but you don't.
I mean, you don't get a big head, but you're
a very good partner and not a lot of reasons
to fight with you.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
I mean, they say that opposites attract, but I think marriages,
I don't know, I'm not an expert, but to me,
I would think marriages where the people are more similar
have a better chance of working out them. I think
you know that their opposites.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah, because they both identified being Catholic, even though Dan
wasn't very religious. I don't really think Betty was either,
but those you know, foundations of being Catholic were just
in bred in them. They all also both like to fight.
You know, Dan was an attorney, and I think that
they like to spar with each other. And I think
they were both narcissistic.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Okay, and that is that's probably not.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
A very bad combination, right, Yeah, Okay, One more question,
this is this is a hard question. How do you
think We already talked about this a little bit, but
what's the best way to handle conflict in a marriage?

Speaker 2 (53:23):
I think just tight in your room and close the.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Bee, scared of your wife.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Just wait for it to pass and then no, I know,
I think it's obviously communication is really really.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Trying to take any angry or defensive try to listen
to your partner.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yes, I think for us, you know, I think that
has helped a lot with both of us, but probably
me especially like is you know, remaining somewhat calm and
not I don't know, not not escalating the anger in
the you know, if there's a fight going on or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, I would say, really really listening when you're having
a disagreement, whether it's with your partner or your kids
or whoever. Just really try to hear where the other
person is coming from. You don't have to agree necessarily,
but really try to hear what they're saying, and you know,
know what emotional state they're in, what emotion that you
know is being evoked in them.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, if that makes sense, it does.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
In nineteen sixty five, about twenty to twenty five percent
of marriages eventually ended in divorce. Divorce was less common
and more stigmatized. Today, roughly forty to forty five percent
of first marriages are estimated to end in divorce, though
rates vary by factors such as education, age, and socioeconomic status.

(54:41):
How many second marriages do you think end in divorce?
So we said forty to forty five percent of marriages
and in divorce today. What do you think it is
for second marriages.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
That's a good question. I almost think it might be
more just because you get divorced once you find out, well,
ye know, they this doesn't work out, I can just
try again.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
So hard to go through, especially like the financial Yeah,
I guess maybe if you're on your second marriage, you're like,
we are not going to commingle our finances. That's probably
one of the things that people learn.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
And you're probably less likely to have kids together in
a second marriage. Yeah, I'm just saying less likely. I'm
not saying it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Happen a lot of times though they people will have
one more child together. Yeah, what do you think you
have to give a guess? Fifty sixty to sixty seven percent,
it's a huge amount of people to get divorced to
the second marriage, third marriages.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
I'm gonna it has to go down that.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
At that point, it came seventy seventy three percent. So yeah,
like I just I don't know if i'd even bother.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Wow, that's really shocking. I'm guessing you don't have the
stat for fourth marriages. At some point, it's got to
go down.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Gosh, I don't. I don't know, But like you know,
some people just keep going, yeah, yeah, how many times
have you been married? I don't think you've ever told
to say for just once. It's just once once is
enough and done. That's right, that's right, baby. So before

(56:09):
we go, I just wanted to tell you something funny
that I did. We don't travel a ton, but we
travel enough and we're really boring, and when we travel
we still use our Netflix and who the accounts or
whatever and the other day. So for years we've had
there's four of us in our family, and like our
initials are on me kind of like R T E G.

(56:30):
And there there's been a Z there, which somehow we
picked Z up years ago in an Airbnb and once
in a while just peeking is watching and I don't know,
for whatever reason, I just let it, let it right.
So we got back from our trip and so somehow
Karen is on there, there's a Karen. I'm like, Karen, no,
we are not, We're not. Z is like a family

(56:52):
member now, but we can't kick Karen out.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Karen so harsh. I'm just curious, what did you see
what car And was watching before you kicked her out.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
You know, I don't think I looked, but I saw
their age and I think that they were a little older,
which I was kind of surprised, like older than me.
I mean, I'm so young, but you know, yeah, that's
not anyway. That just cracked me out that when we
saw Karen, I'm like, Karen, not today, You're messing with
the wrong girl. Then I was like, I could have
deleted Z, but I'm like, I'm.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Just's been with us a long time. I never check
on Z to see if if Z is watching anything
or if they just logged in.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Possible they could have just logged in.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
One Yeah, it could have been just had an Airbnb
and then that was it.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Yeah, that's a good point because they probably can't log
back in rather once they get home.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Don't seem a little weird though, if you are at
an Airbnb and you see that there's a Hulu signed in,
Like I could see, okay, I'm going to watch a show,
but you create an account for yourself or create a.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
And I would just, like, you know, click on your account,
and I think we have done that before, which I
always feel a little guilty about it. But it's like
it's such a pain to sign into Netflix or who
it really is from a new TV. So are you
watching anything right now?

Speaker 2 (58:04):
I am watching Breaking Bad? I am rewatching it.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
You watched this is your second to go through?

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Yeah, I only watched it once. All the way through.
I've seen you know, bits and pieces episodes here and there,
but I decided to rewatch it because we so we
watched Better Call Saul after Breaking Bad, and I loved
Better Call Saul. But one of the things I felt
like I didn't pay enough attention during Breaking Bad because
there were a lot of characters that were the same
and I had forgotten who was who. And I thought,

(58:30):
it's such a great show. I just want to watch
it again. And then yeah, I'll probably watch Better Call
Saul again too.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
So nic said, you have pre time to watch shows.
I just like to work on the podcast. Yeah, except
when I'm the four hours.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I know you're much more dedicated than I.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
And it is not at all true. I'm just teasing you.
This week was just tough. One of the reasons this
week has been tough is because our son is going
back to college and I'm feeling I'm not going to cry.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
You are going to cry.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
I'm going to cry like when he leaves. But I'm
trying not to cry.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Now you're going to try and cry in the next
five minutes. I mean, it's it has been an emotional week,
especially for you, but.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Well because Emma left recently too, and we've never had
an empty nest before.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Right, whenever one of them has been gone on the
other one school, the other one's been here or something.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
So yeah, so I have I have an exciting announcement.
We're adopting. We're adopting a child.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
That's what you said, you when you said earlier something
about we have a new a new baby, a new baby.
I was like, Okay, what's going on.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
I got a message from the schools the other day,
like the foreign exchange program. They're looking for host parents,
and I was tempted really get into it. But I
was really tempted because we have we'll have three empty
bedrooms now and Darling son, we'll come home right and
you know, Emma's room is still available to her.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
But you know, yeah, it's gonna be different. It's going
to be different, an adjustment.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah you scared.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
I'm terrified.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I don't say I
think it'll be fun.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
But I it'll be. It'll be a new phase of life.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
You really seem nervous about it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I don't think. No, I'm not really nervous about it.
I think it'll be I think it'll be great. And
I know he's not going to be gone forever either.
He's still in school, so it's not like a permanent thing.
When he does eventually move out for the last time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Then you'll leave me and start with a new woman.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
No, but that might be no family. That might be
more emotional or difficult for me than this is. Because
I feel like this is sort of like it's you know,
it'll be back in a few weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
It's weird to want your kids to stay forever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
No, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Yeah, I think I want them to have adventures, you know,
good lives and all those things. Yeah. Well, please send
us your thoughts and prayers as we embark upon this
new adventure together. Thank you alone, just the two of us.
Thank you all so much for listening and making our
lives better by supporting us on our podcast journey.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
If you'd like to listen to parts two and three
of this episode right now, you can join us on
patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We have one tier five
dollars a month. You get early ad free access, plus
a monthly bonus.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Episode and if you want to send us one of
your children where a snack lmkpod Pobox one one one
Dexter Michigan four eight one three zero.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media,
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill
your husband.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Accup to c.

All Episodes

Betty and Dan Broderick - Part 1 of 3

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

The Charlie Kirk Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Betty and Dan Broderick - Part 1 of 3