Erin Patterson, the mushroom murderer

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've
learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
That some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to love, Mary kill.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hey, Rich, your arms must be tired.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
My arms are so tired.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
You literally just flew in from New York City.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I did. I got home a half hour ago, and
it was a little bit of a bumpy trip, not
just turbulence wise. My flight got canceled last night and
I spent an extra night in New York City that
I didn't plan to, so it was a little bit.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
But you're here now, and you're ready to podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I sure am, and I'm excited to hear about this case.
My mate Dave has been asking us to do this
case for like over a year now, I think a year. Yeah, not,
as I said my mate, because.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
I did notice in Australia, we are going back to Australia.
I feel like, if you are in Australia, though, you
know everything about this case, and you might not really
learn anything new from our episode. I don't think the
case has caught on as much in the United States,
so This is an Australian case that I'm telling more
to our United States listeners. But before we get started,

(01:20):
I have a joke for you. Why did the mushroom
get invited to all the parties?

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Because he was a fun guy to be with.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
That's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Another thing I wanted to mention before we get into
the case is thank you to the ten four hundred
and sixty two people who messaged us that Michelle and
Jason Young's dog, mister Garrison, is named for the teacher
in South Ark. That really made us laugh because normally
when we're podcasting, we have learned that we should google

(01:53):
something rather than say, oh, gosh, I don't know, but
I felt like it's a dog's name, Like, you know,
how are we gonna know what this is about?

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah, apparently everyone in the world watches something, everyone except that.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well you, I know that you used to watch it
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Really, I mean I've watched I'm sure I've watched an
episode or two here or there, but I never really
watched it.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
That was really funny. Thank you to everyone that reached
out to us. And we'll try not to make that
mistake again. But I did bring you a snack today.
Oh good, are you ready?

Speaker 3 (02:24):
I am ready. I'm really hungry, So I hope it's substantial.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I mean, you can eat as much of it as
you want. You know that today's case is about Aaron Patterson,
a mushroom murderer. You might want to call her. So
I made you. I didn't make you beef Wellington is
that's what she made her guests. I made you a
mushroom tart, and I promised that these that was not
You were not excited at all about that.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
I'm not exciting.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think it's pretty good. I had a piece earlier.
How do you feel about mushrooms?

Speaker 3 (02:55):
From one to ten mushrooms, I'm I'm sort of neutral
on I don't like them. I don't think they really
add a lot to a lot of things. But I
don't dislike them either. They can kind of they can
be on a pizza or whatever. It doesn't bother me.
But I wouldn't really choose to put them on a
pizza either.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I love mushrooms, and I have consumed dramatically less mushrooms
since you and I have been together, and our kids
aren't really big mushroom fans, and mushrooms are really polarizing.
I think mushrooms and coconut and raisins foods like that.
Some people just you either love them or you hate them.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
The recipe is from a website called The Little Sunny
Kitchen and it's just called Mushroom Tart, and the recipe
will be in the show notes. I'll have you try
it right now.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Okay, you didn't even need a whole piece of the
mushroom tart.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
You didn't like it.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
It wasn't bad. It was not bad. I didn't love it,
but I didn't hate it. It's kind of how I
feel about mushrooms in general, fairly neutral. I thought it
tasted like a pizza with a lot of mushrooms on
it and not tomato sauce.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I just took a piece of puff pastry, rolled it out,
put some smoked Gouda on it, and then I sauteed
a bunch of baby Bella mushrooms with some butter and
some thyme, And.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, I like the gudha flavor. That was good.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, smoked Gouda is one of my favorite cheeses.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
What would you rate the mushroom tart?

Speaker 3 (04:17):
I'm going to give it a six out of ten.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Okay, that's not too bad. I would give it an
eight out of ten. On July twenty ninth, twenty twenty three,
Aaron Patterson, forty eight, a separated mother of two, prepared
a special luncheon. It was a cold, gloomy, quiet Saturday
afternoon and lean Gotha a rural town nestled among the
rolling hills of Victoria, Australia. Lean Gotha is a small

(04:41):
town located in South Gippsland, about one hundred and thirty
five kilometers roughly eighty four miles southeast of Melbourne, with
a population of about six thousand. It's a close knit,
farming oriented community known for its rolling hills, dairy farms
and quiet, picturesque countryside. Was the kind of day that
begs for her comfort, food and familiar company. Inside Aaron

(05:03):
Patterson's kitchen, something delicious and indulgent was coming together that
she'd toiled over all morning. Beef Wellington tender filet wrapped
in golden puff pastry, layered with mushroom paste and brushed
with egg washed to a glossy finish. But Aaron put
her own spin on the recipe by making individual portions
instead of the traditional loaf. As she put the final

(05:25):
touches on the gourmet meal she'd been planning for weeks,
her guests arrived. The aroma from the kitchen wafted through
the house, creating a homey, welcoming feeling. As the four
guests sat down at the table, Aaron poured wine. The
guests were her in laws, Don and Gail Patterson, both seventy,
Gail's sister, Heather Wilkinson sixty six, and Heather's husband Ian

(05:48):
sixty eight. One guest whose absence was notable was Simon Patterson,
Aaron's estranged husband. She was visibly irked that he'd abruptly
canceled the night before, after she'd carefully planned the meal
for two weeks. Aaron set aside a plate for Simon,
and Casey changed his mind and decided to attend. She
was hoping he would make an appearance. It was a

(06:09):
family lunch, meant to bring people back together, but also
so Aaron could share some unfortunate medical news and get
their support. Ian, a pastor at a local church, said
a prayer before the meal. The wine flowed, The conversation
stayed polite, friendly, slightly strained, perhaps, but everyone seemed to
enjoy the meal works cut cleanly through the tender pastry,

(06:31):
releasing steam, and the earthy aroma of mushrooms and beef.
None of the guests at the table could have known
this carefully planned meal was not meant for their sustenance
and enjoyment, but was a calculated act of revenge to
make them suffer, to pay for the slights and pain
that Aaron Patterson had felt for months, even years. By midnight,

(06:52):
all four guests were in their bathrooms, wrenching up the
lunch gravely ill. Within a week, three were dead. Only
Ian Wilkinson survived barely, and Aaron, who claimed she too
had eaten the meal, would soon be at the center
of a shocking and deeply unsettling mystery that would captivate
Australia and the rest of the world. One haunting question

(07:14):
was asked over and over. Was it a tragic accident
or something far more sinister? This lunch occurred almost exactly
two years ago, and we should mention that in Australia,
like the end of July is kind of the peak
of their winter. It's the peak of our summer, it's
the peak of their winter. So having like a nice, cozy,
home cooked meal was probably a really nice way to

(07:37):
spend your Saturday afternoon.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, it makes sense. It's kind of a heavy lunch though, right,
but it's that typical of Australia as well.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Do you think it's funny that you asked that? Because
I had the same question. I reached out to one
of our Aussy listeners, Sarah, and asked her that, and
she said she thought because they were a church going
family that it wouldn't be that odd. Okay, they might
all get together on Saturday afternoon because they'd be busy
Sunday at church.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Late on the night before the luncheon, Simon and Aaron
Patterson had the following text exchange.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Sorry, I feel too uncomfortable about coming to a lunch
with you, mom, Dad, Heather and Ian tomorrow, but I'm
happy to talk to you about your health and implications
of that at another time. If you'd like to discuss
it on the phone, just let me know.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
That's really disappointing. I spend hours this week preparing lunch
for tomorrow, which has been exhausting in light of the
issues I'm facing. I spent a small fortune on beef
fil a to make beef Wellington because I wanted it
to be a special meal, as I may not be
able to host a lunch like this again for some time.
It's important to me that you are all there tomorrow
and that I can have the conversation that I need

(08:39):
to have. I hope that you change your mind. Your parents,
Heather and Ian are coming at twelve thirty. I hope
to see you there. Simon never responded to that message.
Ann did not attend the lunch, lucky for him. On
the day of the lunch, and the four guests arrived together.
Gail brought an orange cake for dessert. Aaron and Simon's
daughter son, aged nine and fourteen, were not at home

(09:02):
during the meal. They'd gone to McDonald's for lunch and
then to see a movie. The Wilkinsons had never visited
Aaron's new house before, so she gave them a tour
of her home and garden. She served them each an
individual beef wellington with fresh foraged mushrooms. Before eating, they
said a prayer led by Ian. In addition to the
beef wellington's for each guest, Aaron made mashed potatoes, gravy,

(09:26):
and green beads. Served on a gray plate. Her own
beef Wellington was served on a smaller orange plate. Later,
Heather dwelt on this and asked Simon is erin short
of crockery. He admitted that she didn't have a large
complete set. Her dishes were piecemeal. Gill had half of
her beef Wellington, while don ate his entire portion, as

(09:47):
well as the other half of Gail's. Ian and Heather
ate their entire portion. After the indulgent meal, everyone was
full but nibbled on the orange cake Gale had baked
and a fruit platter Aaron put out. After lunch, Aaron
broached the difficult conversation that had brought everyone together. She
told her guests that she had been diagnosed with ovarian

(10:08):
cancer and needed guidance on how to talk to her
and Simon's children about her life threatening illness. The group,
visibly concerned, encouraged her to be honest with the kids,
and Ian led them in a prayer for her. But
in reality, Aaron did not have cancer. She fabricated the
diagnosis as a way to draw her in laws to
her home, and it also explained why her children weren't

(10:30):
present at the meal. As the lunch was winding down.
Aaron's son and his friend returned from the movies. Simon
had picked them up, but chose not to come inside,
a detail that, while subtle, reflected the tension between him
and Aaron at the time. His parents and his aunt
and uncle are there, and he chose to not even
come in and say a quick hello. He and his

(10:51):
daughter returned to his house. The guest departed around two pm,
as Ian had a three pm appointment with a parishioner.
Within twelve hours of leaving Aaron's home, the four guests
all became violently ill, with vomiting and diarrhea. Don vomited
more than thirty times before he called his son. Simon
was shocked at the state of his parents when he
arrived and immediately called an ambulance. Then he paid a

(11:14):
visit to his aunt and uncle, finding them also incredibly sick.
He drove them to the hospital himself because an ambulance
would have taken too long. Doctors first believed that the
four victims had food poisoning from the beef. None of
them had remembered the finely chopped mushrooms in the beef Wellington,
but the next day the doctors realized that they'd fallen
critically ill due to poisonous mushrooms. They were all in

(11:37):
or near liver failure. Gail, Don, Heather and Ian were
all placed in medically induced comas, but three of them
died within a week of the poisoning due to multiple
organ failure, a brutal, long suffering death. Don was given
a liver transplant in hopes of improving his condition, but
he continued to deteriorate after the surgery. He passed away

(11:59):
on August fifth. Gale and Heather were both deemed too
ill to undergo a liver transplant and died on August fourth.
Ian was also given a liver transplant. His condition improved
after the surgery, although his recovery was long. He spent
seven weeks in the hospital, including three weeks in the
intensive care unit in an induced coma at the Austin

(12:21):
Hospital in Melbourne. These four people were all a little older,
but they were really good people and as far as
I know, in good health, had many years to live.
It's heartbreaking that their lives were ended in such a
brutal and unkind way.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, so much suffering. It's just really awful.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Aaron also sought medical treatment at Lean Gotha Hospital two
days later, on Monday, July thirty. First, she complained of
gastro intestinal issues and diarrhea.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Something I learned while investigating this case in Australia. Here
we would say I have the stomach flu, and Australia
you say gastro.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Okay, her vital signs were taken and her blood pressure
and heart rate were found to be dangerously high, but
she abruptly left the hospital, even signing a waiver that
she was leaving against medical advice. She was there between
eight o five and eight ten.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Imagine going to the emergency room in the US and
being in and out in five minutes.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
That is very hard to imagine.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
That.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Actually, Doctor Webster did say that there was some sort
of a bell that she was ringing. I think it
was a bell that for nurse attention. She kept like
ringing the bell over and over. And it was Monday morning,
and he actually was very busy, but she was so
persistent that he went and asked if he could help her.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Okay, after she left, Doctor Christopher Webster had an uneasy feeling.
He had seen Gail Don Heather and Ian and knew
how sick. They were. In fact, they were still at
the hospital that morning awaiting transfer to a larger hospital.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think a couple of them may have been transferred already.
But doctor Webster said that he believed that where he
was talking to Aaron that she could possibly see into
one of at least one of their rooms, and he
was struck by her not asking about their condition.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Interesting. Doctor Webster was afraid that Aaron had also suffered
from mushroom poisoning and wanted her to return to the hospital.
He attempted to call her cell phone three times and
left her several messages. When she didn't answer, he called
the police for assistance.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Hello, what addressed? He had? The police? So, this is
doctor Chris Webster calling from Lee and Gatha Hospital and
I have a concern regarding a patient that presented here
earlier but has left the building and is potentially exposed
to a faithal toxin from mushroom poisoning. And I've tried

(14:43):
several times to get hold of her on her mobile phone.
So before I get all that information in what addressed?
You need the police to attend, doctor Chris where so?

Speaker 5 (14:53):
Well?

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Should I give the hospital address or the address of
the patient if you know where they are there adress,
I have the address of the patients. Yeah, go ahead
of that, okay, read Leona Leon Gather three nine fives,
Thank you, so eighty four gifts in street Lean Gather, Victoria.
The nearest inter section is Worthy Street. Is that correct?

(15:14):
I'd have to get good Walt maps up, but yes,
I would say that sounds right. That sounds like a
street and Lean gas.

Speaker 5 (15:20):
What's her name?

Speaker 1 (15:22):
So? The last name is Patterson p A T T
E R S O M. First name Aaron E R
I M. Do you have a dot of birth thirt
yes of September nineteen seventy four. When did she present
at hospital at eight five today? Yeah? Mushroom poisoning, you said, yeah.

(15:51):
So there were five people that ate a meal on
Saturday and two of them are in intensive care at
dan in l Hospital to have just been transferred from
Lean at the hospital to danding On Hospital, and Aaron
presented this morning with symptoms of poisoning. Be with me

(16:21):
and what happened when she presented? She's got the move. No,
there was time for the nurse to begin observations and
I was managing the other critically unwell patient. So I
had a brief chatter about where the mushrooms were obtained.
And after that, while I was attending the other patients,

(16:44):
the nurse informed me that she had discharged herself against
medical device. So I don't know exactly. Oh, we've got
a form here, handles tell me what time she left. No,
it doesn't have a time. She lift it for five minutes.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
I saw footage from video surveillance and Aarin can be
seen wearing white pants. A lot of people have talked
about Aaron wearing white pants when she is having explosive
diarrhea and how most people would not choose to wear
white fit.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Yeah, probably not. Also it's the middle of winter too,
and I know that's not well.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
They were kind of cream colored, I think, but yeah, good,
good point. I know you're like the fashion exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
When police arrived at Aaron's home, she didn't appear.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
To be there.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
However, they retrieved scraps of the beef Wellington from her
garbage and delivered them to the hospital shortly after ten
am for testing. When officers called Aaron on her cell phone,
she was cooperative and provided them with the security code
to open the gate. Erin voluntarily returned to the hospital
an hour and thirty eight minutes after her initial visit,
where she was kept for observation for twenty four hours.

(17:57):
The doctor treating her said that she was quote moderately
dehydrated and appeared to have a gastrointestinal type illness, but
had no clinical or biochemical evidence of amanita or mushroom
poisoning or other toxicological substance ingestion. Her liver function was normal.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
The best course of treatment for mushroom poisoning is to
treat the liver or to block the enzymes from entering
the liver. With the other patients, they were all in
liver failure and so they thought, you know, Aaron was
feeling okay, we should give her these liver blocking enzymes
so it doesn't get to her liver.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
So that might have been why her liver functions were normal.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, probably not, actually, because I typically you are exhibiting
symptoms like twelve hours after you ingest the mushrooms, Okay,
So the fact that it was two days later, she
probably was in the clear, right, But they were being
abundantly cautious because of the severity of the other four
people's illness.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Sure the hospital insisted that Aaron's children and also be
admitted for observation, despite not displaying any symptoms. Aaron had
served them the leftover beef Wellington, but had scraped off
the mushrooms. She was adamant that they hadn't eaten any
of the mushrooms and didn't want them taken out of school,
but Simon brought them to the hospital. Aaron and the
children were released the following day. None of them had

(19:20):
the mushroom tocsin in their bloodstreams. Aaron, who had experienced
issues with her potassium levels previously in her life, had
normal potassium levels, which, if she had had explosive diarrhea
as she had reported, would be a little surprising.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
My Cologists or mushroom experts have said that the beef
Wellington that Aaron gave her kids, even if she had
scraped off the pastry and the mushrooms, the mushroom toxins
probably still would have leached into the beef.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah. I would think so too.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Doctor Webster later told the Harold's son that he knew
Aarin was a calculated murderer when she revealed to him
that she had purchased the mushrooms for the dinner from Woolworth,
her local market. Quote. If she said she picked the mushrooms,
it would have been a very different mindset for me,
because there would have been an instant assumption it was
all a tragic accident. But once she said that answer,

(20:11):
my thoughts were, holy fucking shit, you fucking did it,
you crazy bitch, You poison them all. He called Aaron
a quote disturbed, sociopathic nutbag. She wasn't freaking out about
the safety of her children. Looking into her eyes, I thought,
I don't know what planet you're on, but you're not
on Earth. Here, he is describing what it felt like

(20:31):
to be in her presence.

Speaker 5 (20:33):
There is an eerie sort of disquiet that you have
in her presence, But it's not the typical sort of
scary ogre type fee that you have. It's more visceral
than that. It's sort of her oddness gets under your skin,

(20:57):
and penetratic, brian and just she's not it's not pleasant
to be around her.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
The doctor Webster doesn't shy away from speaking his mind
or using colorful language. We'll talk about that a little
bit more later.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
We'll be back after a break.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Long before the headlines of her deadly beef Wellington made
international news. Aaron Trudy's Scudder, was a bright young woman
growing up in Melbourne's southeastern suburbs. Born in nineteen seventy
four to a businessman father and a mother who was
a children's literature professor at Monash University, Aaron was raised
in glen Waverley in a family that valued education, ideas

(21:45):
and intellect. Her sister Kinwyn would go on to become
a scientist. Aaron, too, was curious and ambitious. She started
out studying science at the University of Melbourne, then pivoted
to accounting before becoming qualified as an air traffic controller
in two thousand and one. Aaron met Simon Patterson in
two thousand and four while working for Monash City Council.

(22:07):
Aaron was a representative for the RSPCA or Royal Society
for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Simon worked as
a civil engineer. They were friends first, often spending time
together in a larger group, going camping and taking trips
together before they became a couple in two thousand and five,
engaged a year later, and married in two thousand and seven,

(22:29):
when Erin was thirty three. They shared a love of
travel and moved across the country, living for a time
in York and Pemberton, small towns in western Australia, where
Aaron even ran a second hand bookstore, but eventually they
returned to Victoria, settling in South Gippsland near Simon's family.
Erin became active in the community, editing a local church newsletter,

(22:52):
raising their two children, and in quieter moments, indulging in
her growing interest in true crime. We'll have to combat that.
Aaron and Simon Patterson's marriage experienced frequent ups and downs,
including several separations between twenty nine and twenty fourteen, before
they permanently separated in twenty fifteen. Their first separation occurred

(23:14):
shortly after the birth of their first child, during a
time when Aaron was struggling with postpartum depression. Religion often
played a central role in their marital challenges. Simon was
a committed Christian, deeply involved in his Baptist church, particularly
the one where his uncle Ian served as pastor. Aaron,
on the other hand, identified as a fundamentalist atheist before

(23:37):
their marriage.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
What is a fundamentalist atheist? Hey, well it quick Google
tells me what I probably should have known from the beginning,
but it's basically an atheist who is very strident in
their views, like on, intolerant of anything else.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Well Erin did become a Christian after they wed, but
there are signs that the shift in her belief may
not have fully taken root their differences and eventual separation,
Aaron and Simon remained on amicable terms. They co parented
their two children, spent holidays together, attended church as a family,
and even went on trips together. The lunch where Aaron

(24:13):
served the beef Wellington allegedly containing death cap mushrooms, was
not the first time she is accused of trying to
harm Simon. Prosecutors pointed to three earlier incidents in November
twenty twenty one, May twenty twenty two, and September twenty
twenty two. During the May twenty twenty two episode, Simon
was hospitalized with serious gut problems and spent twenty one

(24:36):
days in intensive care. Boy, I wish I had more
information about this, but I couldn't find any more about it.
But very interesting. Yeah, and I can't blame Simon for
not going to the lunch that Erin.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
No, I wish he would have warned his family members
not to go, and I.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Think he must have felt that they were safe if
he wasn't there. Yeah, Aaron had inherited several millions of
dollars from her her grandmother and later from her mother.
Financially comfortable, she didn't really need to work. She was
also known to be generous with her money, reportedly loading
hundreds of thousands of dollars to Simon's brother and sister
so they could build their own homes. After separating from Simon,

(25:15):
Aaron Patterson appeared to lead a quiet and increasingly isolated
life in her rual leand Gatha home. Beneath the surface,
though she carried deep emotional wounds, some dating back to
her childhood. In messages posted to Facebook, Erin described her
upbringing lacking warmth and affection. Quote, we had a horrible upbringing.

(25:36):
Mom was essentially a cold robot. It was like being
brought up in a Russian orphanage where they don't touch
the babies. Dad wanted to be warm and loving to us,
but Mom wouldn't let him because it would spoil us,
so he did as he was told. Erin's main social
outlet was a True Crime Facebook group, where some of
her private messages revealed rising resentment toward the Patterson family.

(25:58):
In December twenty twenty two, Aaron expressed frustration over her
in laws reluctance to support her during her separation from Simon, quote,
I'm sick of this shit. I want nothing to do
with them. I thought his parents would want him to
do the right thing, but it seems they're concern about
not wanting to feel uncomfortable and not wanting to get
involved in their son's personal manners or over writing that.

(26:20):
So fuck them. In another message, she added, this family,
I swear to fucking God.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
So she's making these posts in a true crime Facebook group.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I think she just became like very friendly with some
of them, and she was just venting her frustrations. But
when you're married in your forties with kids, should your
parents be involved in your marriage?

Speaker 3 (26:41):
I would hope not.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Later, Aaron expressed regret over the angry messages that she
had sent, saying that she loved her in laws and
that they had always treated her like a daughter. In fact,
she had frequent and friendly contact with Gail, often exchanging
friendly and loving messages and sometimes parenting advice on Mother's
Day in twenty twenty three, just two months before the
fatal lunch, Aaron sent Gail a warm text message, Happy

(27:06):
Mother's Day. You're the best mother in law I could
ask for. But her relationship with Simon continued to deteriorate.
When he filed his taxes as a separated person in
twenty twenty two, it altered Aaron's own tax filing status,
costing her a substantial exemption that she had relied on.
In response, she demanded that Simon begin paying child support

(27:28):
and contribute to school fees. They quarreled over their custody
and financial agreements. Erin no longer allowed the children to
spend the night at Simon's house because it was messy
and chaotic. In text to friends, she referred to him
as a deadbeat. I'm not sure if this is accurate,
but I read that his child support payment was thirty
eight dollars a month, which seems really really small. Yeah,

(27:51):
unless it was a week, but even week, that seems
really small.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
And that's Australian dollars. But I think Australian dollars are
not dramatically different.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think ar was comfortable. I'm not sure
if she was well lost. So maybe the payment was
so low because she didn't really need the money.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Well, yeah, you said she had inherited quite a bit
of money, right, Well.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
She had built a house in the last year year
or so before, like in twenty twenty two. Maybe she
built a new house and she was pretty generous. I'm
not sure how much of that money she.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Had left, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Tensions escalated, Erin began sending aggressive text messages to Simon's parents,
Don and Gail, who were reportedly hurt and confused by
the tone and intensity of her messages. Erin was also
deeply affected by what she perceived is being excluded from
Patterson family events. One moment that especially stung was not
being invited to Gail's seventieth birthday party. Her hurt and

(28:43):
anger were evident in a series of text messages sent
at the time. Seems like my invite tomorrow is a
bit of an afterthought, and not even from your parents,
so I might pass. Thanks. What I reckon is that
everybody forgot to invite me to this. I feel very
hurt about that. Your response is to say, I'm being ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Well, you can believe whatever you feel like. But frankly,
you're as far off the mark as you possibly could
be on this. I know they would love you to
be there. They've been talking about this and losing sleep
over it for weeks.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Aaron went to the party with her children, but apparently
an argument broke out between her and Simon. After the event,
she sent another text apologizing I was feeling very heard
and lashed out. It's no excuse. I'd like to not
do that again. That sounds like a text message I
feel like sending anytime we have a social outing. But

(29:35):
doesn't Simon come off as unflappable?

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, he really does.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
I think you and Simon are probably quite similar. Despite
the turmoil in her life, Aaron made plans in twenty
twenty two to enroll in a midwifery program, but delayed
her studies when her daughter required additional support at home.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
There are over five thousand varieties of mushrooms, and about
fifty of them are poisonous. Death cap mushrooms or Amanita
filoid's and their relatives are among the most poisonous mushrooms
in the world and are responsible for the vast majority
of fatal mushroom poisonings. They have a smooth, pale green
or yellowish cap, white gills, and a white stem with

(30:13):
a cup like structure at the base, and typically measure
between four and sixteen centimeters or one and a half
to six inches in diameter. Death caps contain potent toxins
called amatoxins, which are deadly even in very small amounts,
and are not destroyed by cooking, freezing, or drying. Just
one mushroom can be fatal to an adult. Symptoms typically

(30:34):
appear six to twelve hours after ingestion, and may include
severe vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain, followed by a deceptive
period of improvement before liver and kidney failure sets in.
Without prompt and aggressive treatment, including possible liver transplantation, death
can occur within days. Native to Europe, death caps are

(30:54):
now found across North America, Australia and other parts of
the world, often growing oak, pine, or chestnut trees. They're
especially dangerous because they closely resemble several edible mushrooms, making
accidental ingestion tragically common. There's no antidote for death cap.
Mushroom poisoning experts think that aaron must have put at

(31:15):
least ten mushrooms in the beef wellington to cause such
serious illness and death. There is a new potential treatment
for mushroom poisoning, an extract from a milk thistle plant
called syllabinin. It's not yet FDA approved, but has helped
between thirty to fifty percent of patients, but it needs
to be delivered quickly to counter the effects of toxins
on the liver. But mushrooms aren't all bad. They are

(31:37):
a low calorie, nutrient rich food that may support longevity
and overall health. They're packed with bee vitamins and antioxidants,
and are one of the few plant based sources of
vitamin D. These compounds help combat oxidative stress, reduce inflammation,
and support immune function, all of which are key to
healthy aging. Some varieties, like chitaki and lions main have

(32:00):
been linked to benefits like improved heart health, better cognitive function,
and a lower risk of certain cancers. Including mushrooms in
a balanced diet may contribute to a longer, healthier life.
Is this your way of trying to convince me to
like mushrooms more than I do?

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I sometimes take a mushroom supplement, I mix it into
my tea. It's most to help concentration and focus, and
I really do think it works.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
The commercial mushroom industry is highly regulated, ensuring that Storrebaugh
varieties are safe to eat. However, foraging for wild mushrooms
carries significant risks. In countries like Switzerland, mushroom inspection stations
are available where foragers can have their fines evaluated by
experts before consuming them, but budget cuts have led to

(32:45):
fewer inspection centers, resulting in more poisonings. One of the
challenges is that toxic mushrooms can change in appearance throughout
their life cycle, making it difficult even for experienced foragers
and even mycologists to tell the difference between safe and
porous varieties. While identification apps are available, they aren't always reliable.

(33:05):
The same species of mushroom can look quite different depending
on its age, the soil it grows in, and environmental conditions.
I know here in Michigan people really love to go
hunting for morel mushrooms, right.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
Since twenty twenty, there has been an uptick of about
twenty percent in mushroom related illnesses and deaths. As foraging
has become a popular hobby, many thousands of people become
ill each year from eating inedible mushrooms, and dozens die.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
I just want to reiterate here that mushrooms that you
buy in your supermarket are very safe. They are grown
for consumers, right, and there's no question that they are safe.
But when I was making the mushroom tart, I used
baby Bella mushrooms and mushrooms like you're not supposed to
put them in water. You're just supposed to, like, you know,
rub them with a cloth to get the dirt off, okay,
And these were particularly dirty and kind of gross.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Interesting, And I think.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I had it In high school and college I had
microbiology and we studied fungi, and for a few years
I didn't eat mushrooms because funga its fung guy is
it's weird.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
It's a weird life form, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
I've heard that there's new varieties of funguy that are
emerging that might be life threatening. No, I really don't
have any or either that.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Okay, yep.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's just odd how they can just pop up out
of nowhere.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, it really is. Looking for a new hobby. During
the twenty twenty COVID pandemic, Aaron began foraging for mushrooms
in the Krumborough Botanic Gardens near her home and in
her backyard. In April twenty twenty three, the Victoria Department
of Health issued a public warning that death cap mushrooms
were growing in the region. The deadly mushrooms were spotted
a short drive from Aaron's home in rural Victoria. On

(34:44):
a website I Naturalist, hobbyist foragers posted about the location
of mushrooms they found in the wild, cautioning others to
steer clear of the deadly fung guy. One user gave
the exact location of the death cap mushrooms they'd spotted,
giving precise latitude longitude measurements. Aaron's computer history showed that
she visited the Eye Naturalist website at least once. It

(35:07):
was a town called Locke in the Gippsland region. It
was the first time the death cap mushrooms had been
spotted there, at least according to the website.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
When law enforcement dug into Aarin's phone and electronic devices,
her location revealed that she was near the area where
the death cap mushrooms grew. In April and May twenty
twenty three, she'd spent about twenty five minutes there, just
long enough to find and pick the mushrooms. On April
twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, the same day she was
near one of the Death Cap mushroom areas, she purchased

(35:39):
a food dehydrator. Investigators believed that Aarin has multiple phones,
although she only turned over one. The iPhone she relinquished
to police had been reset to factory settings four times
on February twelfth and August second, fifth, and sixth. The
last reset was done remotely when the phone was all

(35:59):
ready in the hands of law enforcement. That's a very
brazen activity, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, it is. I didn't even know you could do that.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
In surveillance camera footage, Aaron is seen with a pink
Samsung phone that has never been recovered. It seemed to
be her primary phone between February and August twenty twenty three.
Aaron claimed that she purchased the mushrooms from a local
market and adamantly denied the notion that she'd foraged the
Death Cap mushrooms. She told investigators that she'd purchase some

(36:27):
of the mushrooms in powdered form from an Asian grocery store,
but she couldn't recall which Asian grocery store or produce
a receipt. Investigators visited all of the possible locations but
couldn't find the packaging that Aaron had described, So she
sent them on this wild goose chase. And it's kind
of crazy to me that she couldn't say, oh, yeah,

(36:48):
I got I got the mushrooms from the store on
first in Maine or something. That doesn't like she had
went to so many different Asian food markets that you know,
she couldn't pinpoint it.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yeah, that doesn't add up.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Bank records didn't reveal any activity at such a store.
She claimed she must have paid cash. Aaron purchased a
mixture of wild mushrooms from a local Woolworth's market, including
a blend of chataki, anaki and porcini. They smelled pungent,
She claimed. She mixed those mushrooms with some other mushrooms
that she had previously dehydrated. On August second, twenty twenty three,

(37:22):
after leaving the hospital, she brought the food dehydrator to
a recycling center or as they'd stay in Australia, a
tip tip. She'd had a run in with Simon at
the hospital when his parents were still in the hospital,
and he'd asked her if she'd used at a hydrator
on the mushrooms that had killed his family members. Police
went to the tip and were able to recover the

(37:44):
food dehydrator, and they found Aaron's fingerprints on the unit
as well as deathcap mushroom residue inside.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's pretty amazing they were able to find it.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah. In a search of Aaron's home on August fifth,
police found a manual for the dehydrator in her kitchen.
A review of surveyor Allen's video found clear images of
her dropping it off. Unaware of the evidence against her,
she told police that she'd never owned a dehydrator. A
journalist John Ferguson, who interviewed Aaron, called her cold, mean,

(38:12):
and vicious. The day after the lunch, Aaron and her
children skipped church because she wasn't feeling well. Her son
had a flying lesson about ninety minutes from their home
that afternoon. He told his mom that they could skip it,
but they went anyway. Aaron was seen on surveillance footage
entering a gas station and heading to the restroom, again

(38:32):
wearing the white pants. She was only inside for nine seconds.
She then purchased a sour confectionery, a ham, cheese and
tomato sandwich, and a sweet chilly chicken rut.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
I have no idea what that is.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
I really don't know what it is either. I think
it might just be like a piece of chicken that
is seasoned really well. Okay, I mentioned these things because
none of these things seemed like what you should be
eating when you're having an upset.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Stumm.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
No, but her son was with her, so maybe she
was buying these snacks from her kid. Okay, But we
mentioned this just because you know, she is supposed to
not be feeling well, and she was only in the
restroom for nine seconds, and she went on a ninety
minute drive to take her son to this flying lesson.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, and so not something you would do if you
had serious gastro intestinal issues exactly.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
But later she claimed that she had to stop on
the side of the road to relieve herself and only
stopped at the gas station to dispose of soiled tissues.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Okay, thanks for putting that in my head.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
During a police interrogation, Aaron denied intentionally poisoning her in laws.
She said quote. My parents are both gone, my grandparents
are all gone. They're the only family that I've got.
I love them a lot. Here's Aaron talking to the
media about her in laws. It's a tragedy with Keppin.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
Can you tell us about the meal that you put.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
I've the devastated by what's happened by the laws of.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Tony is still in hospogles an and and Kyle I
was some of the best people that I've ever been.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
The media was relentless in their pursuit of Aaron, and
it was starting to bother her. Aaron, Kelly, you goings
and like I'm going rosting.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
We got healthy. I am adding that to my vocabulary.
Next time you ask me how I'm doing or how
I'm going, I'm gonna say I'm going ship house.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I did google it just to make sure that the
definition of that was what you're thinking is, yeah, okay,
it's pretty clear.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
I think it's a good word. We'll be back after
a break.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Sensing an impending arrest, on November one, twenty twenty three,
Aaron had a party at her house with her children
and her closest friends. She was arrested the next day
and charged with three counts of murder and five counts
of attempted murder. She pleaded not guilty. While in jail,
she was mostly kept in solitary confinement after a fellow
inmate accused her of tampering with her food. The inmate

(41:10):
felt ill after she cooked a meal for her, and
Erin was banned from the prison kitchen. I would have
thought Aaron would have been banned from the prison kitchen
to begin with, but okay. While Erin remained incarcerated after
her arrest, her home had been burglarized several times, with
thieves taking TVs, a vacuum, surveillance cameras, and even a car.

(41:31):
The trial of Aaron Patterson gripped the nation of Australia.
Fifty witnesses testified over a ten week period. The trial
took place in Morwell, about an hour from Aaron's home
in lean Gatha. In Australia, no cameras are allowed in
the court rooms. The public depended on journalists and podcasters
for details of the trial day to day. On the
eve of the trial, the attempted murder charge for Simon

(41:53):
was dismissed. Prosecutor Nannette Rodgers sc attempted to prove that
Aarin set out on four calculat deceptions quote. The first
deception was the fabricated cancer claim she used as a
pretense for the lunch invitation. The second deception was the
lethal doses of poison the accused secreted in the home
cooked beef Wellington's. The third deception was her attempts to

(42:16):
make it seem that she also suffered death cap mushroom poisoning,
and the fourth deception the sustained cover up she embarked
upon to conceal the truth. Simon was the first witness.
He became emotional many times during his testimony when talking
about his parents and the early days of his relationship
with Aarin. He recalled that she had a good relationship

(42:36):
with his parents quote. She especially got on with Dad.
They shared a love of knowledge and learning. I think
she loved his gentle nature. Although at the time of
the luncheon their relationship was very strained, he hadn't given
up on the thought of them reconciling. He said it
was rare for Aaron to host people in her home,
especially a group of that size. He talked about the

(42:56):
breakdown in their communication in December twenty twenty two, he said,
quote from my point of view, Aaron was being extremely aggressive.
Doctor Christopher Webber, who treated Erin in the hospital, testified
that he believed she was faking her symptoms and called
her a callous, calculated killer. He said he knew she
was lying when she said she'd purchased the mushrooms from

(43:17):
a local grocer. Ian Wilkinson, a local pastor and the
sole survivor of the luncheon, testified at the trial. He
stood while giving his testimony.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
I thought it was very brave of Ian to testify.
He really had been through a lot. He lost his
wife and two very beloved family members, and he almost
died himself. I think his recovery was very long. I
mean he was almost seventy having a liver transplant I'm
sure is no picnic. And the fact that he stood
during his testimony when I think most people in Australia

(43:48):
stand when they're testifying what they offer them chairs, especially
if you are in a compromised health state of health.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah, so he just really impresses.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
It seems like a wonderful man who has really been
through a lot.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
Ian and Heather were pleased to be invited to the lunch,
and he hoped that it might improve the family's relationship
with Aarin. He said that at the luncheon he had
noticed that Aaron had used a plate that was a
different size and color than the rest of the guests.
Ian said, quote, each person had an individual serve. It
was very much like a pasty. It was a pastry case,
and when we cut into it there was steak and mushrooms.

(44:23):
He testified that when he was admitted to the hospital,
he had forgotten about the mushrooms in the dish and
hadn't mentioned them to the doctor. He said that he'd
seen Aaron eating, but couldn't remember how much she had eaten.
When asked about his relationship with Aaron, Ian said quote,
I would say our relationship was friendly, amicable. It did
not have much depth. We were more like acquaintances. We

(44:44):
didn't see a great deal of each other. She just
seemed like a normal person to me when we met.
Things were friendly. We never had arguments or disputes. She
just seemed like an ordinary person. Heather would have seen
Arin more than me, talk to her more than me,
but we did not consider that the relationship was close.
Regarding being invited for lunch. He said that he and
his wife were quote very happy to be invited. It

(45:07):
seemed like maybe our relationship was going to improve. We
were very happy to accept. In regards to Aaron's announcement
about her health, Ian said, quote, she said she was
very concerned because she believed it was very serious, life threatening.
She was anxious about telling the kids. She was asking
our advice about that, should I tell the kids or
not tell the kids about this threat to my life.

(45:28):
In that moment, I thought, this is the reason we've
been invited to the lunch. I didn't quite catch what
type of cancer she had. I thought it was some
sort of ovarian or cervical cancer, something like that. I
realized we weren't able to continue, and that we hadn't
prayed about it. I suggested we pray, and I said
a prayer, asking for God's blessing that Aaron would get
the treatment she needed, that the kids would be okay.

(45:50):
Ian is sure that Aaron used the word cancer.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
The defense pointed to the lack of motive. Aaron was
well off, had a good custody agreement with Simon in
which she had the children the majority of the time,
and her children loved their grandparents. But remember, the prosecution
didn't have to prove a motive. They explained away Aaron's
lies and deceit as panic after she realized that she'd

(46:14):
unintentionally done away with beloved relatives. The cancer lie that
was Aarin embarrassed about an upcoming weight loss surgery she
was planning. But there is no evidence that Aaron had
a surgery planned. And she gave the police like the
name of the clinic, and that clinic didn't even offer
like any kind of weight loss surgeries.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
I seems like that'd be such an easy thing for
the police to check out that why would she do that?

Speaker 5 (46:41):
You know?

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, the allegation that she visited towns with deathcap mushrooms
was not proof and didn't pinpoint her location precisely. A
friend from the online true crime group that Aarin belonged to,
Daniella Barkley, testified that Aaron had excitedly shared pictures with
the group of mushrooms. In her new deal. Aaron told
the group that she'd quote been hiding powdered mushrooms in

(47:04):
everything to trick her kids into eating them. Quote I
mixed it with chocolate brownies. Yesterday and the kids had
no idea. She had also asked the group for tips
on making beef Wellington. I think this is to say
that she wasn't trying to hide these things. Both of
Aaron's children testified via video from interviews they gave in
twenty twenty three when they were nine and fourteen. The

(47:27):
children both confirmed that they'd eaten leftover meat from the
previous day's lunch the next night for dinner, without the
mushrooms or pastry. Allegedly, it was the portion that Aaron
had reserved for Simon. The Sun said that in recent
months his parents had been arguing more than usual. The
daughter said that her mother had told her that she
couldn't be at the lunch because they were going to

(47:48):
discuss adult things. Aaron testified at length in her own defense,
maintaining that the deaths were the result of a tragic accident.
Always a risky move to testify your your own dead.
Some say that she came off as odd, joking awkwardly
at times and sometimes appearing combative with the prosecutor. Aaron
said that she might have inadvertently mixed dried foraged mushrooms

(48:12):
that she had kept mixed in with store bought ones,
not realizing that the foraged ones were Dudley. This mushroom
business is very confusing to me. Yeah, she had some
mushrooms that were like in a powdered form. Then she'd
bought some from the store, and then she admits that
she may have foraged some of them and somehow they

(48:32):
all got mixed together. She did not deny that there
were death cap mushrooms in the beef Wellington, but she
wasn't sure how they got there. She said that she
had consumed the same meal individual parcels of beef Wellington,
but then after her guests left, she had binge eaten
about three fourths of the orange cake that Gail had made,

(48:53):
and then vomited it up because she was so full.
Her attorneys explained that this purging might be why she
fared better than her lunch. Yes, ok, quote, I ate
another piece of cake and then another piece, so I
went to the toilet and brought it back up again.
After I'd done that, I felt better.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
The novel defense.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yeah. Well, Aaron went on to explain that she had
struggled with binge eating disorder for most of her adult life.
She talked about her struggle with self esteem and how
putting weight on in recent years had added to her
mental health issues. In late twenty twenty two, she felt
Simon and his family were pulling away from her and
inviting her to fewer family functions, and that is why

(49:35):
she invited them to her house for lunch.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
I kind of wondered about that because it seemed odd
to invite your in laws from your husband, who you
were separated from, to a lunch. You know.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Well, I thought the idea was that she had this
health issue and she needed their support. And Ian was
a pastor, and you know, pastors are really good to
talk about your struggles, right, And then I think that's
why she invited him, but clearly that that's not why
she invited them. Aaron said she prefers exotic mushrooms because
they just taste more interesting and they have more flavor.

(50:07):
They tasted good and I didn't get sick. She said
she made the beef Wellington's to make something new and
special and added the dried mushrooms because the paste was bland.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
The paste being like what's robbed.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
On the Yeah, the mushrooms that are finely minced, Okay,
I don't know, I've never made beef Wellington. I've always
wanted to try it, but I've never made it. But
I'm not sure what you make to make the paste,
But somehow you mix it all together and you stick
it on the beef and then you wrap it in
the pastry.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Gotcha.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
I am curious too. Like here she's saying, well, it
was bland, so it means that she must have tasted it.
And you know, if you're tasting, why didn't you get
I know she's saying that she vomited it up.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
But though that would have been she would have tasted
it way before it was actually done.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
Right.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah. She admitted that she'd disposed of the food dehydrator
after her in laws fell ill when she she realized
that she may have been culpable. She admitted to lying
to investigators because she was fearful of being arrested and
losing custody of her children. Quote. I agree that I
lied because I was afraid I would be held responsible.

(51:14):
When asked if she believed that there were deathcap mushrooms
in the beef Wellington, she replied that she did, but
insisted that it was a horrible accident. Over the course
of eight days of testimony and crossed examination, Aarin steadfastly
maintained her innocence, insisting that she accidentally included foraged mushrooms
in the beef Wellington.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
The most baffling part of the case for many has
been the lack of a clear motive. Prosecutor Nannette Rogers
even struggled presenting the case with no motive. In her
closing arguments, she said, quote, she alone chose what to cook,
obtained the ingredients, and prepared the meal. That choice to
make individual portions allowed her complete control over the ingredients

(51:54):
in each individual parcel.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I believe that Aaron said that she couldn't find the
right cut of meat eat and that's why she chose
to make the individual portions okay.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
On June thirtieth, twenty twenty five, the twelve jurors, seven
men and five women, began their deliberations to decide Aaron's fate.
The judge, Justice Christopher Beale, reminded the jurors that Aaron's
lies and disposal of evidence should not bias their judgment
against her. He said, quote, this is a court of law,
not a court of morals. The jury's decision must be

(52:26):
unanimous because of the media attention the case has received.
The jury was sequestered with no access to their cell phones.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
In the United States, if you're an alternate jurer, you
know that you're an alternate juror. In Australia, what they
did is right before that they were about to deliberate,
they pick two numbers, like out of a box, and
those people were dismissed.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Oh, that seems smart. Because you're an alternate juror, and
you know you're an alternate juror, you might not pay
as close of attention.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Right.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Aaron's supporters installed black tarps around the front walkway and
carport of her home to shield her from the media,
signaling that she was hopeful of her release. On Monday,
July seventh, after six days, the jury reached a consensus.
Under Australian law, unlike in the US, none of the
jurors can be publicly identified, and they're prohibited from disclosing

(53:16):
jury room deliberations, which are considered secret even after the
trial ends.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Which again I think that's a pretty good way of
handling that it is.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
But as a true crime podcaster, I really like it
when I can hear what the jurors have to say
after the trial's.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Over, I think I realize that I forgot to say
something that is very important. Aaron was on the stand
testifying for eight days.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Eight days, eight days. Wow, that's a lot of time.
Right after reaching the verdict, the jury filed into the
courtroom around two pm. The victims' families had attended the
trial each day, but were not present when the verdict
was read. Aaron tried to make eye contact with the jurors,
but they avoided her gaze. As the verdict was read,

(53:58):
she looked calm and poised, but blinked furiously, as if
to keep her emotions at bay. She was found guilty
on all three counts of murder and one count of
attempted murder. Her sentencing will be announced at a future date,
but it's likely she will receive a lifetime sentence. She
has twenty eight days to file an appeal, and as
of the time we are recording, it hasn't yet been filed.

(54:20):
After the verdict, she was taken to the Maximum security
Dame Phyllis Frost Center, the largest, toughest and only maximum
security women's prison in Victoria, about forty five minutes from Melbourne.
Aarin will likely again be in solitary confinement because of
the severity of her crime against elderly people. The inmates
read the news and are well aware of who she is.

(54:41):
She will likely die in this prison unless her appeal
goes through. She is the only triple murderer in the prison.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
The Patterson and Wilkinson families decline to make a statement
after the verdict, but the police released the following statement quote.
Victoria Police acknowledged the decision of the jury today. Our
thoughts are with their respective families at this time. We
acknowledge how difficult these past two years have been for them.
We will continue to support them in every way possible
Following this decision. We would like to acknowledge the work

(55:08):
of the Homicide Squad detective over the course of this
complex investigation, as well as the significant support received from
a number of other areas across Victoria Police, and that
the Patterson and Wilkinson families will not be supplying a
statement at this time. The beef Wellington recipe that Aaron
used came from the book recipe Tin Eats Dinner from

(55:28):
famed Australian chef Nagi Mahashi I visit her website all
the time if you haven't gone there. She has really
great recipes. She's adorable and very funny. She just developed
a recipe this week for peanut butter brownies that she
was really proud of that. She hasn't posted the recipe yet,
but oh, I'm excited to make yess for you. In

(55:49):
response to the media storm surrounding the case, she wrote
on her website, quote, Dear journalists of Australia, please stop
calling and emailing and texting and dming me about the
Aaron Patterson case. It is, of course upsetting to learn
that one of my recipes, possibly the one that I've
spent more hours perfecting than any other, something I created

(56:09):
to bring joy and happiness, is entangled in a tragic situation.
Other than that, I have nothing to say and I
won't be talking to anyone. Thank you for respecting my privacy.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I mean, really, if you think about it, why would why.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Would just and her recipe did not say death cap
mushrooms in it. Lauren Sykes, a Swinburne University PhD candidate
in true crime podcasting, told news dot com dot Au
that the media and public have turned a devastating loss
of life into a show for their own amusement. Quote

(56:42):
from an avalanche of memes about the case to journalists
hounding the author of the cookbook Patterson based or Beef
Wellington recipe on, there has been no shortage of unhelpful
and deeply unseerious behavior online which has been spurred by
this case. The Aaron Patterson case had all the hallmarks
of a classic true crime til fraud interpersonal family relationships

(57:03):
which led to murder a perpetrator who has been described
as narcissistic and evil in an investigation with enough twists
and turns to rival any true crime podcaster series. The
tense media and public attention on this case was inevitable,
but the amount of online discussion and in person gossiping
about the Patterson case reveals how easy it is to

(57:24):
turn unthinkable tragedy into an amusing pop culture moment. To
chat about murder is not fun. Having not just one,
but several family members ripped away from you by the
actions of another is a harrowing experience. The last thing
the Patterson and Wilkinson families need is more eyes on
them during such a horrifying moment in their lives. This
pain and grief will be with them for the rest

(57:45):
of their lives. The intense international media coverage of this
case has received will certainly not have helped them grieve.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Well, that's a very well said statement.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I thought so too, And we think we talk about
this all the time off air and on air.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
It's a struggle. I mean, we are sharing these stories
and they are about tragic things that happen, and we
try to have a little fun while we tell the stories,
but we try not to let that interfere with respect
for the victims and that type of thing.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
But we try our best, but it's a delicate balance.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Really.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Yes, we can't say it enough that we realize that
it is precarious the situation that we put ourselves in
because we do respect the victims, not just the victims,
but the families and even the communities.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
The elder Pattersons and Wilkinson's lived in the quaint village
of Cornborough, population five thousand. DoD and Gale had lived
there since nineteen eighty four and had raised their four
children there. Ian Wilkinson was the pastor of the local
Baptist church for over twenty years. He and Heather also
had four children. The people of Kornborough haven't enjoyed being
in the spotlight. We're talking about the deceased victims. Everyone

(58:50):
in the village knows someone who has been directly affected
by the tragedy. Nathan Hershey, a cattle farmer and counselor
for corn Borough, told the BBC after the Verdi was announced, quote,
it's not an easy thing to go through a grieving process,
and it's particularly not easy when there's been so much attention.
There's an opportunity now for a lot of people to

(59:10):
be able to have some closure. The locals are fiercely
loyal and grateful to Gail, Don, Heather and Ian who
helped build and strengthen their community. Don was a former
beloved school teacher. Hershey said, quote, you'll hear a lot
of people talk very fondly about Don, about the impact
he had on them. He was a great teacher and
a really engaging person as well. Gail and Heather were

(59:32):
known for their kindness, generosity and willingness to volunteer for
various community projects. Hershey said, quote, lives in our local
community have changed forever. But I would say for a
lot of people it's just become almost like pop culture.
Though the past two years has at times brought out
the worst in our community, it's also shown a light
on the best. We want to be known as a

(59:52):
community that has been strong and has supported one another,
rather than a place that has known for what we
now know was murder. Three crosses were mounted at the
entrance of the township and the victim's honor. A message
was posted outside of the church where Ian is pastor
after the verdict was read, quote, we all greatly miss Heather,
Don and Gail. Whether we were friends for a short

(01:00:13):
time or over twenty years, they were very special people
who loved God and love to bless others. It's been
a long journey, and we continue to support Ian Simon
and all of the Wilkinson and Patterson family members through
this difficult time. We appreciate all of the care from
our local communities, special support from individuals and from the
Baptist Union of Victoria and the churches and people from

(01:00:36):
all over the world who have been praying for us.
As our pastor Ian has said, quote, life can be hard,
but our God is faithful and he is always with us.
The Wilkinson and Patterson families have asked for privacy during
this time. Please also respect the privacy of our church family.
Rest in peace, Gail Don and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Heather, Yes, rest in peace.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I'm so glad Ian survived though.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Yeah, for sure, But it must be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Hard to be the only survivor of this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
I'm sure there's a lot of survivors guilt that goes
along with that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Probably a lot of gratitude too. Yeah, before I ask
you some discussion questions, I wanted to review the exculpatory
and inculpatory evidence. Okay, the inculpatory evidence includes Aaron choosing
to make beef Wellington where she could chop up the mushrooms.
The mushrooms were deadly and make it really small, so
the guests really didn't know what they were eating. And

(01:01:28):
then she chose to make them into individual portions where
she could maybe make some without the poisonous mushrooms for herself.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
And the fact that her plate was a different color.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Right, the cancer diagnosis. She never had cancer, although I
don't know if I said this, but during the trial
she swore that she didn't say the word cancer, that
she said that she was ill. Okay, she had visited
the eye naturalist website searching for the death cap mushrooms,
and her phone pinged near the reported area. Aaron claimed
to have bought the mushrooms at the local Asian grocery store,

(01:02:01):
but no one else.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
Can remember where it was either, right, But.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Can you imagine like the panic for the police at
first when this, you know, just regular middle aged mom
is like, yeah, you know, I made this beak Wellington
and everyone got sick. They're probably really scared that other
people in the community are going to get sick from
these mushrooms, so they really did try hard to find them.
She reset her electronic devices to factory settings multiple times,

(01:02:25):
she disposed of the dehydrator, and even though she said
she was sick, she really wasn't sick, especially compared to
the other people right lunch. Do you think that there's
any exculpatory evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
I don't recall hearing anything that was super exculpatory up
to this point.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
But when I first heard about the case, when I
heard that she fed the leftovers to her children and
they didn't get sick, and I was like, well, what
mother would feed, you know, the leftovers to their children.
The prosecutor says that she'd never she had some different beef,
and she probably you know, gave her kids like beef
that had never touched the mushrooms she did, and give
them anything that she'd scraped the toxic mushrooms from.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Yeah, that's probably true.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Her son did testify though, she said, you know, we
had the beef and it was like some of the
best beef I'd ever had. It was delicious. The fact
that she shared some of the pictures with her Facebook
friends and she put the hydrated mushrooms, that was kind
of telling to me. And one of the pictures I'll
post the picture. I think there are fourteen mushrooms that
she has on the tray of the dehydrator, and she

(01:03:25):
has them on a scale. Having them on the scale
is a little damning too, because that indicates that maybe
she knew exactly Yeah, I think, like I said, there
were fourteen mushrooms. One death cap mushroom might be deadly,
but two, you know, definitely is going to be more deadly, right,
And the fact that she dehydrated them is like there
were a limited supply of death cap mushrooms. She wouldn't

(01:03:48):
want to keep going back there, So maybe that's why
she chose to dehydrate them too. She claimed that she
had been putting mushrooms in everything. She wasn't trying to
hide the fact that, you know, she was really into
mushrooms and she was feeding into her kids and dehydrating
them and whatnot. She was very cooperative, and the investigation,

(01:04:09):
you know, none of these are like, oh, yeah, she
couldn't have done it because she was cooperating with the police.
And the lack of a clear motive.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Yeah, that's the one that kind of gets me. I
don't really see what the motive is there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
I know I shouldn't be diagnosing people with psychological disorders,
but I think Aaron could have orderline personality disorder. We
talk about this a lot, characterized by intense emotions, unstable relationship,
a distorted self image, and impulsive behaviors. People with BPD
may experience mood swings, fear of abandonment, and difficulty manning

(01:04:41):
managing their younger They often struggle with a deep inner turmoil,
and may alternate between idealizing and devaluing others. So I
mentioned this because she did have this distorted self image, right,
And we talk about this every time someone in one
of our cases has orderline personality disorder, the fear of abandonment.

(01:05:02):
Simon is leaving her. She's feeling like, you know, Gail
and done.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
And that was her only family she had.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Yes, she's feeling like they're moving on without her. Yeah,
so I think she might have been lonely and angry.
It was festering in sight of her. She was fixating
on these relationships and she just couldn't move on.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
Yeah, that's a much more subtle and nuanced diagnosis that
I was going to make, which is that she had
a screw loose and there was just something off with her,
is what it seemed like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
So you think Aaron is guilty.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
Yes, I do think she is guilty. It just seems
like too it would be too much of a coincidence
that she didn't get sick, that she had a different
color plate. It just seems like too much. And the
fact that she said that she bought the mushrooms and
then she had the searches.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
So all the lies that she Yeah, it's just all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
It was all too much for me to believe. Honestly,
I think if she had said that she from the beginning,
if she said I foraged for mushrooms and I didn't
realize they were poisonous. I made a terrible mistake. I
think she might have gotten away with it. I still
think she might have done it intentionally, but it just
seems like all those lies kind of caught up to her.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Yeah, I agree. Why is everyone so interested in this case?

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
It's a good question. I think that the podcast PhD
person said it well, right, it's sort of this interpersonal
family dynamics and this perpetrator who is narcissistic and evil,
and the fact that I think any of us can
imagine being in a situation where we, you know, eat
something and are poisoned and you could just feel then

(01:06:38):
you can just feel it. Sort of the personal nature
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
And I think people are really intrigued by Aaron as
a person. She seems like such an average middle aged woman. Right,
she could be your neighbor, she could be your ant,
She's any woman, and any person really is capable of murder.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
Yeah, And I think also the availability of poison mushrooms,
I think that's all. It's a little bit of a
scary thing, right, just knowing that you can go pick
a mushroom thinking it's going to be perfectly fine, and
it could kill you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
I read a lot of accounts of people who were
like I saw some it was more in the law,
and I saw some mushrooms grod in my ditch and
I said, well, those look delicious, and I cooked them
up in some bottle. Boy, that is the scary thing,
because I did look at a lot of pictures and
the death cap mushrooms. They do look delicious. Yeah, I
mean they look like, you know, just regular mushrooms. So really,

(01:07:30):
if you're a mushroom forager, you probably know what you're
doing for the most part.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Yeah, just be careful.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
We talked a little bit about Switzerland, how they have
these stations where you can take the foraged mushroom. Yeah,
it is a really good idea, and they said that
you know, we're professionals, but sometimes we don't even really know,
oh boy, because they can different be different colors and
different seasons and different sizes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
And yeah, it's very tricky.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
After Simon canceled, why did Aaron go through with the lunch?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
You know, that's a very good question. It just feels
like she had made all these plans and she was
just going to go through with it no matter what.
Obviously she wanted him there. She made that very clear,
But it just almost seems like she had it all
planned out and she didn't want to cancel her plans.

Speaker 5 (01:08:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Well, in the way that she could hurt Simon the
most would be to kill the people he loves. Yeah,
it's a true and talking about survivor's guilt, Simon must
have a horrible survivor's guilt. Yeah, I'm sure Aaron was
a true crime consumer. Do you think that she could
have gotten away with it if she would? Did she
not plan good enough?

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Like I said before, I think she could have gotten
away with it if she just basically from the beginning
made it seem like a tragic accident that she foraged
mushrooms that were poisonous, although her Internet search histories might
have still brought her down with that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
But yeah, yeah, I think if you run the jury,
you would have found her guilty.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
Yeah, I think so. I mean, like we always say,
it's hard to say without listening to all the testimony,
but from everything you shared with me about the case,
it seems pretty clear to me that she did it intentionally.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
I think she came off as pretty unlikable to a
lot of people. Remember doctor Chris the nine to one
one call, the zero zero zero call. We listened to ye.
He mentioned that he had a previous interaction with Aaron
years ago and he remembered her and he said that
he seems like a very affable guy mm hmmm, and
he tried to make jokes with her, you know, light

(01:09:26):
in the mood, and he said that she was a
tough crowd.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Yeah. I mean the way he described her, that that
kind of has stuck with me from when we talked
about that because he couldn't he couldn't describe her very well,
but he was like, there's just something off about her,
and that really I can kind of see that well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Speaking of doctor Webster, he is very important to the case.
Had he not called Triple Zero, scraps from the meal
might not have been gathered in time and they became
a key piece of evidence. The police went looking for Aaron.
They went to her house. When she didn't appear to
be home, they notified doctor Webster, who then told them
to check her trash for the beef. Wellington. He said

(01:10:04):
that he almost instantly realized that Aaron was a murderer
after she left the hospital the first time. His nurse
said quote looks like someone is trying to do away
with the church crowd. But doctor Chris is now under
fire for his comments, and he has been accused of misogyny.
When I read this, I'm not sure. I think that
other people are talking about when he called Aaron some names,

(01:10:25):
he called the bitch and other things, so I think
people were citing that as misogyny. So he's a little
nervous that his reputation is ruined. I think most people
probably don't think that. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Yeah, I mean I don't know either. I haven't listened
to everything that he's said to me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
I'm not sure how the laws work in Australia. I
think our friend Shanala asked her about this and she
wasn't sure either. But the police went in Aaron's trash
to get the beef Wellington out, and I don't believe
they had a search warrant because I don't think they
could have gotten one so quickly, because remember Aaron was
I got the hospital at eight am and they were
in our house by ten am. So like in the

(01:11:04):
United States, you have to have a search warrant. I
think unless the trash is out at the current was.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
The trash in the house or was it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
I don't think the trash was in the house. I
think it was. Yeah, I don't know if it was
you know, out at the road or you know, if
it was by the house. That would be something that
I would be afraid that might come back in an
appeal situation if it wasn't properly. But I haven't heard
anyone mention that, so it's probably you know, y legal. Yeah,

(01:11:31):
I do want to mention my sources for this episode.
I listened to a couple of different podcasts, the Mushroom
Cook podcast and the Mushroom Mushroom Trial podcast. I watched
an episode of sixty Minutes Australia which I watched a
few of those for different cases, and they really do
a good job in that show. And I also read

(01:11:52):
about one hundred articles. Yeah, I hope they did it justice.
But the podcasts the other podcasts were really interesting and informative.
I just have such a love for our Australian listeners.
They just seem like the best people. So thanks to
Schanella who I mentioned, and Sarah who helped me out,
and Dave who is your friend who always helps us

(01:12:14):
out too, So we love you guys, and we really
appreciate your assistance. Oh and one more, Bronnie, Bronnie b
thank you so much. I love you, appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
And one of the things that Dave assisted us on,
although not in time, I messaged him a while ago,
but we're probabys. Like, pronunciations are always a challenge of
like cities and things like that, and there were a
lot in this episode of different pronunciations, but the big
one Melbourne or Melbourne or Melbourne depending on then who
you asked. So I messaged Dave and I asked him
how you pronounced that the name of that city because

(01:12:44):
he's from there. And here's what he had to say, Melbourne.
So Melbourne Melbourne, which sounds really weird.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
It sounds weird in our American accent, it sounds, you know, great,
in the Australian accent. So we try our best, but
obviously we make mistakes. We did all the time, and
that's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Hey, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
So I talked to a lot of listeners online, especially
on Instagram, and I love talking to everyone, but this
is kind of funny. If you change your profile picture,
I'm not going to know who I'm talking to and
a lot of people like I don't even know, Like
when I said Bronni, I'm like, I think that's her name,
but I'm not even I don't know what you know.
Sometimes people like their Instagram profile name isn't their real name.

(01:13:30):
It's just like loves flowers or something, you know, whatever
it is. Like, So, you know, try not to change
your profile picture because I might not know who you are,
which I feel really bad saying. Which is great.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
It's a common thing. I think you remember somebody based
on their profile picture got their name.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Yeah, well you know that I'm young and hip and cool.
Because I watched Love Island, of course, I've learned a
lot of new words. Yeah, and I thought I might
give you a little quiz to see if you know
what some of these words that I'm going to be
using now around the house.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Okay, well I probably won't, but this will be good
for me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
I think you're going to. I think you're going to
know some of them, and I hope it will help
our listeners be able to talk to your your zoomers.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
See, I don't even know what a zoomers you do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
Our kids talk about it all you've heard.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
The term, but I really don't know where a zoomer
is in the whole you know scheme of different generations.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Okay, well, our kids are zoomers, and we do have
some younger people that listen to us too, but I
think most people are you know, parents that listen to us.
Or what does CAP mean? Cap or no cap? I'm
going to give you some options.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
I think cap is something to do with like your
salary in Major League Baseball? Okay, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Does it mean if someone says that's cap, doesn't mean
A that's a lie, B that's a trend, C that's cool,
or D that's confusing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
I'm going to go with that's cool because it sounds
sort of like capital, like maybe it's short for.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Capeople say cap or no cap, So you're wrong. Cap
means lie and no cap means for real. Okay, what
do you think bussin means bustin? This mac and cheese
is bustin' A it's rich, B it's spicy, C it's delician,
or D it's hot bustin' by the way you spelled

(01:15:21):
b U s S.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
I n Oh, what are my choices?

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
I have no idea rich, spicy, delicious or too hot.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
I'm just gonna go with delicious, but I really have
no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Correct she means really really good. Our son said, this
is an older one and I shouldn't do it, but
I'm just gonna do it anyway. Giacht it's g y at,
she's got that giat walking past A swag, B energy,
C hair or D.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Backside um swag.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
No, it is slang for big butt, usually said or thirst.
I'm saying for dead ass, you dead ass forgot your
keys again? A seriously, be accidentally, C nervously or D loudly.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
I think this one is seriously correct. Okay, that one,
that's the only one I felt like I kind of
might have.

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
I am not keeping a score just for the record.
If you want to keep your own score, that's good. Simpin.
He's texting her fourteen times a day total, simp simp
he's obsessed, he's threatening, he's detached, or he's confused threatening, No,
he's obsessed. Simping means doing too much for someone who

(01:16:42):
isn't reciprocating. Okay, what would we have called like he's whipped?

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Maybe?

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Yeah? Crashing out? Bro is crashing out over his breakup.
A taking a nap, B giving up, C going wild
and ruining everything, or D posting cryptic Instagram stories.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
I would have said taking a nap, but that's what
you know, we would have said years ago. I'm going
to crash, yeah, but I'm gonna say going wild.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Yeah, losing control, self distracting, usually emotionally orient cassively. I
think you're gonna nail this snax RIZ.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
I know this one.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
I think you do. He doesn't look like much, but
his riz is crazy. A, his jokes, be his money,
see his fashion, D his charm or.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Game charm because it's short for charisma.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Right exactly. Yes, sending me slash I'm dead. That video
is sending me I'm dead. Does it mean ay, I'm confused,
B I'm laughing way too hard, See I'm offended, or
D I'm out of here.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
I'm gonna say I'm laughing way too hard.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Yeah, it's the modern lol extreme laughter. You're doing great, sweetie.
That as main character energy. She's walking like she's got
main character energy. Is it a self centered B she's
confident like the star of the show. See she's extra D.
She's looking for attention.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Oh boy, those all those all sound kind of similar.
I mean, I I think, like being self centered, Like
you're the.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Star of the show, right, so you kind of you
the first.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
The first two sound kind of similar to me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Yeah, I mean you're right, they're similar. But yeah, like
she's star, the star of her show. I think you
know the last one too. I think everyone knows the
last one. Maybe I'm wrong, but touch grass, dude, just
touch grass? Oh you don't know, Okay, I've never heard
that before. A smoke weed be go outside and chill,
see get back to work or d work out?

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
I guess go outside and chill.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Yeah. Yeah, like if someone's you know, just kind of
reeling or you know, upset, you just want to unplug
and go touch grass. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Well, I want to thank you for making me feel
older than I've ever felt in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
So well, there's a couple other ones that are funny,
Like you've heard people sometimes and then I will say,
we're gonna have girl dinner. Do you know what that means?

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
I just assume that meant you were going to have
dinner with our doughter.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
Well, usually it means like like girls are I think
boys do it too, but like we'll just have like
a smoothie and like, I don't know, just like an
easy dinner. I think a lot of times people have
like cottage cheese or it's just like a really simple
quick dinner. Gotcha, Well, the quiz is over. I think
you did great. I think adjusted for your age, I
think you got like a B plus.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
Okay, I'll take it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Do you know what it means if someone says I
ate or they ate uh not or left no crumbs
that's similar.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
No, I don't think I know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
That means you killed it, you did a really good job.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
Okay. I think I've heard that in sports before, so
I should.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
I didn't know that was a Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
I think like if a player did really well, like
I think they might say I ate.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
But okay, one more that I've actually added to my Okay,
but I think the ones that I actually know are
probably older. I'm sure, like this is probably all of
these are probably like gone and I have expired. It's
not cool anymore. But mid mid Yeah, that's I think
that's a really good term for a lot of things.

Speaker 3 (01:20:08):
Yeah, that kind of capture is like something that's just sort.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
Of like kind of average. It's yeah, like a movie
that you kind of liked.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
Yeah, I like that one.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
You're such a good sport. I appreciate you letting me
try to embarrass you all the time, but you always
are up for anything.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Always happy to be embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
All right, before we go for real, I just wanted
to say thank you to everyone who leaves us nice
encouraging messages. And we just got a super sweet email
from our listener Carla today that made us both smile.
We read them, we appreciate them, and we're just always
very overwhelmed and just grateful for all of you and
your support. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us

(01:20:47):
on social media, or send us an email at Lovemrykill
at gmail dot com, and please consider supporting us on
Patreon dot com, slash Love Mary Kill one tier five
dollars a month for early ad free accent in a
monthly bonus.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Episode, or if you want to send us a snack.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
Or cash cash money.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Oh, just send us a snack if you want to.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
Yeah, I'm just kidding. We don't need your money.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
Send it to LMK pod po box one one one, Dexter,
Michigan four eight one three zero.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Until next time, don't kill your wife, and don't kill
your husband,

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