Katherine Knight

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Tina and I'm rich. And if there's one
thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
That some days you'll feel like killing.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Your wife and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Love, Mary kill Good, I'm eight, good day.
How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
How bad was that Australian accent? Oh? Is that that
we're going to Australia today?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Excellent?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm going to tell you a truly horrible story.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
When you think of Australians, what do you think of?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I think of really like fun people, just like kind
of easygoing.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Down to earth, kind, hardworking people who love the outdoors.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Right yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
And you know some Australians.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Ye, I've worked with quite a few Australians.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
And they're great people, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I have not known any Australians that I really dislike.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Well, today, I'm going to tell you a story of
an Australian who might make you question everything you know
about the wonderful people of Australia. Boy, Okay, but I
believe that she's an outlier. Yeah, this is the most
requested case that we've ever had. Really, I think it's
all of our Australian friends who ever quested it, and
boy it's a doozy really about twelve percent of our

(01:26):
downloads come from Australia. They're just the nicest people that
I've ever come across. I love when I get to
talk to our Australian listeners, especially Chanel. Chanelle is the
one that tells me a lot about Australia, what they eat,
how they talk. And there's one word in particular that
they say in Australia that here in the States we
really don't say. Yeah, we might say to see you

(01:49):
next Tuesday, but in Australia they just blurt it out. Yeah,
it's just kind of a.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
It's not like such a horrible word.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, it's not, and you know, it's all context and
here we just don't say, but they're they do.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Before we get into the case, can I just say
that you have an uncanny ability to pick our recording
time that always corresponds exactly to a Tiger's game starting.
If there's a Tigers game starting at four o'clock, I
can almost predict that you're going to want to record
at four o'clock.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well, that is definitely a coincidence. There is no conspiracy
here with I don't care of you with baseball day long.
Who encouraged you to go to the baseball game last weekend?
By the way you did that was me?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
That was okay, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, I have something I need to talk to you
about that the listeners are curious to know. They would
like prove that you are in the top one percent
of the intelligence of the world's population. You can't just
you know, say that fact without offering some sort of backup.
So I've had several listeners reach out and say that
we'd really like some proof that that your husband is

(02:52):
as smart as he says he is. I couldn't give
him anything.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
No, you can't go.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
No, so you'll be producing improved sure. Well, before we
get to Catherine Knight, I have a snack for you,
and of course it is an Australian Nope, it is
not vegemite. It is a sausage sizzle with tomato sauce.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Wow, that looks like much more than a snack.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, it's well just what it sounds like. Really, it's
a sausage what we would call a broughtwurst. I grilled
some onions for you and I put ketchup on it
and it has to be served on white bread. You
can't use a button. Excellent, looks good, all right, why
don't you give it a try. So we just had

(03:38):
snags and bread, snags and bread. You can call it
a sausage sizzle or a snack. What did you think?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
I thought it was really good. I mean nothing not
to like there.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah. Chanelle told me that it was recently an election
day in Australia and when you wait in line to vote,
you will get a sausage that's.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Like provided to you by the government.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
They just give well, I'm not sure if it's just
like you know, the voting the polling place will have them.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
That would be good motivation to go vote.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Absolutely well, I think you have to vote there.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Oh interesting.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
So what would you rate the sausage sizzle?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I mean I'd give it a ten out of ten?

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Would you really? Okay? So that was a Johnsonville brought
on a piece of white bread.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
But it was actually went really on the white bread.
It really worked well. I think it was a good
bread that you chose to.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I did get like a nicer bread and the onions
were pretty good.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Fun fact, I hate raw onions like I can't tolerate
raw onions at all, but I like when they're grilled.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, that is a super fun fact.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Shut up, it's the truth and you know it. Thank
you to Tara, Rhianna and Renee and the many other
people that have recommended this case. I think it's been
recommended for a couple of years and I've finally got
to it. There is a content warning for today's episode.
This episode contains discussion of domestic violence, mental illness, suicide,
and graphic violence that may be disturbing to some listeners.

(04:56):
Listener discretion is strongly advised. The case of Catherine Knight
is one you won't soon forget. It's a gruesome tale
of a woman ruled saying by the legal system, but
her actions are clearly those of a mad woman. Everyone
in the town of one thousand, seven hundred and fifty
knew her and feared her. It's not to say that
she was always a tyrant. She could be sweet, generous

(05:17):
and a good friend, but many of her instincts were primal.
In nineteen forty nine, Catherine's mother, Barbara Ruffin, ran away
from her difficult life in rural Aberdeen, New South Wales
with a man named ken Knight, hoping for a fresh start. Aberdeen,
about three hours north of Sydney, then had a population
of about fifteen hundred. Up to that point, her life

(05:38):
had been marked by hardship and pain. Born Barbara Thoroley,
she was raised in deep poverty, neglected and unloved. Her
father left when she was young, leaving her mother to
feed and care for the children. Barbara was sent to
live in a home for wayward girls for a time.
Do you know what a wayward girl is? We hear
the termal live.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
I do hear that term now that I think about it,
And I guess it's somebody who doesn't really have a home.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Or is troubled child who is difficult to manage due
to their unpredictable or rebellious behavior. They might be wilful, disobedient,
or prone to making bad choices.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
So today, do we have homes for wayward children today?

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Probably a foster home?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I guess so. But it can't you can't just
like as a parent. You can't just be like you're
being difficult, I'm sending you to the home for wayward children.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Probably not. She suffered sexual abuse as a child, and
tragically the abuse didn't end when she married. Known for
her tough exterior and sharp tongue, Robara also battled serious
mental health challenges, including several nervous breakdowns that required hospitalization.
She often feared that madness ran in the women of
her family. At the time she left, Barbara was the

(06:44):
mother of four sons, Patrick, Martin, Neville, and Barry, the
youngest less than a year old. Her husband, Jack Ruffin,
managed a pig farm, but was known to drink and
gamble away the family's money. Barbara's grandmother was believed to
be an indigenous woman from the More region who had
married an irishman. Barbara took pride in this heritage and

(07:05):
liked to view her family as having Aboriginal roots. However,
due to the strong racial prejudices in the area during
this this time, this part of her background was kept
hidden and became a source of inner conflict for the children.
Ken Knight had worked at various slaughter houses or abbatoars
since he'd left school at age fourteen. He was in
high demand due to his expert knife skills and work

(07:27):
ethic among the bountiful farms in the area. Farming, raising, livestock,
and mining were the main industries in the area. Much
of the housing in Aberdeen was provided by the mines
or the abbatoir in the form of barracks or small cottages.
Ken was well liked among his peers. Even Jack Ruffin
was known to enjoy an occasional pint with him. The

(07:48):
Knight family had deep roots in Aberdeen and were well
known rough riders. Some nights, Barbara dragged Jack from the
pub to come home for dinner. This was how Ken
was first introduced to Barbara. He flirted with her and
she enjoyed it. Her husband hadn't noticed her in years.
Soon Barbara and Jack began meeting in his one bedroom
apartment for sex. She was blind to his excessive drinking.

(08:09):
Excited to have a distraction from her mundane life, she
began refusing sex with her husband, and he became irate,
and their already tense marriage grew worse. Jack saw a
bruise on her thigh that appeared to be in the
shape of a man's hand. Furious, he beat Barbara badly
and threw her out of the house. Gossip traveled fast
in the small town, and Barbara became a town pariah.

(08:30):
Even her own sons spat on her when they encountered
her in town. With nowhere to go, she moved in
with Ken, Confirming Jack's suspicions. He sent their two youngest
sons to live with his sister in Sydney. Barbara and
Kenn absconded to the town of Morie, where he again
found work in an abattoir. Barbara quietly divorced her first
husband and married Ken. It's not clear if her pregnancy

(08:51):
prompted the hasty marriage, but Barbara began showing soon after
a fifth son was born to her, and then quickly
after a sixth. She wearied realized that this marriage would
fare no better than the first. When she discovered that
Ken was a raging alcoholic. She really should have caught
onto this sooner, but having lost her first four sons
in the divorce, she clung to her two newest sons,

(09:13):
afraid she would lose them if she complained too loudly.
Ken's voracious sexual appetite as many as ten times a
day exhausted Barbara. If she refused, she would be beaten
or even worse, raped ten times a day, that's wild.
How do you find the time? The young sons? She
once adored, soon began to mimic their father's behavior, demanding

(09:37):
rather than asking, and treating their mother more like a
servant than a parent. Barbara was left feeling trapped and miserable,
with no relief in sight. In nineteen fifty five, she
discovered that she was pregnant again, with twins. She was
sure she'd have two more ungrateful, demanding sons, but to
her great surprise and delight, on October twenty fourth, nineteen

(09:57):
fifty five, twin girls were born, her praternal but both
with red hair like her. First enter the world was
Joy Gwendolen, and half an hour later, Catherine Mary made
her entrance. In five years, Barbara had had six children.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
A lot of kids for five years.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Robert knew the twins would have to be tough to
survive in a house full of unruly males. They lived
in a ramshackle house pieced together with spit and gum,
not nearly big enough for all of its inhabitants. Joy
gravitated towards the boys with their raucous games and sports,
but Catherine preferred to spend time by her mother's side,
playing with dolls and learning to cook. Despite their differences,

(10:35):
Joy and cath remained lifelong best friends. All of the
children were beaten by their father, whether for misbehaving or
for some perceived slight or minor misstep. His weapon of
joys was either a dog leash or an extension cord.
The night house was not a happy one. The parents
constantly fought and didn't care who heard. When Ken forced

(10:56):
himself on to Barbara, he didn't bother to even close
the door. Ken was a tyrant, but had a soft
spot for Catherine. She learned faster than the rest of
the children, and he preferred her feminine nature. Kathy loved animals.
If she found one that was injured, she would take
it home, nurse it back to health, and then release
it back to the wild. She had a strong affinity
for domestic work, particularly cooking, and she gradually took over

(11:20):
many of the household responsibilities from her mother. Barbara confided
in her young daughter that men were pigs. She hated them.
In nineteen fifty seven, when the twins were just two
years old, Jack, Barbara's first husband, suddenly died, likely from
the effects of alcoholism and heart disease, but also possibly
from frequent consumption of bex Powders ex Powders bex Powders

(11:43):
were a popular Australian over the counter painkiller, widely used
from the nineteen thirties to the nineteen seventies. Marketed mainly
to women with the slogan A cup of tea, a
bex and a good lie doown, bex Powders contained a
compound of aspirin, fanac t and caffeine. Though initially seen
as a harmless remedy for everyday ailments, habitual use led

(12:06):
to serious health consequences. Medical research in the nineteen sixties
linked X to kidney failure and cancer, prompting the removal
of fanacetan in nineteen seventy five and a full ban
on such compounds by nineteen seventy seven. Bex Powders remain
a cautionary example of the dangers of unchecked pharmaceutical marketing

(12:26):
and long term drug use. Thank you for indulging me,
oh at Little bar always learned new things from your episodes.
Ditto Barbara's too oldest sons, who'd lived with their father,
came to live with her new family in a house
that was already bursting at the seams. The boys hadn't
had anything to do with Barbara and years, and they
called her whore to her face. They quickly gained a

(12:48):
reputation for being rough with girls, using them only for
their own pleasure, and the girls of Marie soon learned
to steer clear of them sexually. Frustrated, they turned their
attention to their sister Catherine. As young as four, she
suffered from sexual assault from her half brothers and later
from the younger two as well. She went to her
mother for help, and she told her, quote, just let

(13:10):
them do what they want. It's easier that way.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Oh that's horrible. Do you know what happened to the
other two boys? There were four boys that lived with.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Their They went to live with their aunt in Sydney.
Some psychiatrist, by the way, questioned whether Catherine was actually
sexually abused by relatives or not, but the relatives confirmed
that it did happen okay.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
As a young teenager, Catherine began spending time at her
uncle Oscar's horse farm. The time with her uncle was
a welcome respite from her troubled home life. Oscar Knight
had been an expert horseman in his younger years. He
taught Catherine how to respect animals and nurse the injured
ones back to hell. He was the only adult in
her life that saw potential in her and nurtured it. However,

(13:51):
Oscar suffered from severe depression, and in nineteen sixty nine,
at age thirty four, he took his own life. Catherine,
just fourteen, was devastated. She has kept some of his
possessions with her throughout her life and claims that his
ghost has visited her. Oscar's death was a turning point
for her. She realized she had every right to protect
herself from the predators in her home and beyond, and

(14:14):
began denying them the twisted carnal pleasure that they sought
from her. She kept a knife with her and stabbed
anyone who tried to violate her body or personal space.
It became commonplace to see one of the four brothers
sporting a black eye. Cathy had been scared of the
dark and suffered from enurysis throughout her life, but once
the sexual abuse abated, these conditions improved. Soon after, Barbara's

(14:37):
family warmed to her again and forgave her for her
past transgressions. Encouraged by the improving relationship, the Knight family
moved back to Aberdeen. Being the new girl at Muswellbrook
High School, Catherine was subjected to teasing and unwanted attention
from boys and girls. When one girl stuck her foot
out in the bus aisle to trip her up, Catherine
lopped off her ponytail. After a boy commented a on

(15:00):
her butting breasts, her calm demeanor quickly shifted to rage,
and she slammed his face into the seat ahead of
him and knocked out his teeth.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
The school bus is like the wild wild West, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
It was like that when I was definitely I learned
a lot on the school bus.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Her typical personality was cheerful, friendly and polite, but now
people knew not to cross her. She wasn't the most studious,
but Kathy was a model student and well liked by
her teachers. When students came forward suggesting Catherine had bullied
or threatened them, they didn't believe it and turned a
blind eye, even when a boy was found bleeding from
a stab wound.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
So Kathy was very good at manipulating situations to make
it appear that she was a victim, and she did
this throughout her life.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Okay, Well, it sounds like a lot of times she
was sort of a victim too, but apparently that evolved
over time. Kathy kept a small knife hidden in her
skirts to protect herself if someone crossed her boundaries. One day,
her rage boiled over onto a teacher who gave her
a failing grade on a test. Enraged, she chased after
him with the little knife she drew from her waistband.

(16:04):
She hit the ground after he punched her squarely in
the face. They were both suspended. She returned once the
suspension was over, but with her reputation ruined, she didn't
come back the next year.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
I wanted to mention that I read two books for
this case, and they had contradicting facts out. Yeah, it's
really hard when that happens, so I did my best.
It's possible that I have a few things that were
different in both of the stories, and one of them
was that Kathy could barely read and write by the
time she left school.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Okay, After she quit school, she went to the abattoir
or slaughterhouse where her father worked, seeking employment. Ken Knight
had made a good living and was a master at
expertly carving up the flesh of animals, leaving little waste. Catherine,
slim and weak, was turned away and told it was
work for a man. However, she gained employment working in
a textile factory, cutting the large bolts of fabric to

(16:58):
size a late growth spurret, and the hard work increased
her size and strength.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
It's rumored that she was about six feet tall, and
I couldn't corroborate this information, but I think she was
a big, strong, healthy, hearty woman.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Okay. She enjoyed the work, but she longed to work
at the slaughterhouse with the men. It was her dream. Wow,
that's an interesting dream to have.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Well, there weren't a lot of avenues for people in Aberdeen.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You either worked in a mine, or you worked on
a farm, or you worked at the avatar.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, I guess that would be better than working in
the mine. Still only fifteen, Catherine enjoyed the freedom, more
comfortable in the company of men. After her shift at
the textile factory, she would head to the pub and
drink with the men from the slaughterhouse.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Can you imagine this life? She's only fifteen, she's living
on her own, she's working at.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Going out drinking with the guys after work. Yeah, that's
really hard to imagine.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
People were probably more mature than.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
What do you think or know if they were more mature,
but they kind of had to grow up more quickly
than I think.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It was probably good for her to escape the house
that she grew up there, because it sounded like that
was pretty horrific.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah. There were only two pubs in Aberdeen, the Top
Pub and the Bottom Pub. That's what they were called neat.
The Top Pub was located in a hotel at the
top of the hill. Catherine befriended the bartender and whispered
in his ear that she did not want to drink alcohol. Ever,
she asked to instead be served lemonade. None of the men, ever,
knew that she wasn't matching them drink for drink. She

(18:25):
was loud, foul mouth, and attention seeking. When she turned
sixteen in nineteen seventy one, she applied again at the slaughterhouse.
This time, some of her male friends from the pub
vouched for her and she was hired. Catherine mastered the job,
quickly impressing the men with her knife skills. Her job
was to clean congealed marrow and blood out of the
carcasses and cut the meat into smaller pieces. She was

(18:47):
promoted within weeks to the most challenging job in the factory,
de boning. Her father was one of, if not the
top man in the plant, and soon his daughter was
nipping at his heels to take his position, which made
him work harder than he had in years. In fact,
Catherine's work ethic and precision encouraged all of the men
in the plant to work harder. The owners of the
slaughter house gifted her with a personalized set of knives

(19:10):
in an embroidered leather case. She was so proud of
the knives she mounted them over her bed in case
she ever needed them, and with each move, the knives
went up first. Catherine was fascinated by every aspect of
meat processing, even the slaughter itself. On her days off
or during lunch breaks, she would often wander into the
pig room to watch as the squealing animals were killed.

(19:32):
Unfazed by the grizzly scene, she struck up a friendship
with the executioner, who eventually taught her how to slit
a pig's throat. Drawn to the macabre, Catherine began experimenting
with different methods of killing instead of using the quick
humane approach. She tested how varying the placement of cuts
affected the time it took for the pigs to die.
Sometimes she would chase them around with knives, slicing it

(19:55):
muscles and nerves. It was cruel, disturbing and against the rules.
That sounds kind of like serial killer warning, red flag behavior.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, and she went from nursing animals back to health
enjoying their death. It is pretty disturbing, it is.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
We'll be back after a break.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
As the men in the Abbatoar got to know Catherine,
many found her attractive and were very interested in her.
She had matured a bed and become more chill. When
she was younger, she was just a little aggressive and
scared them off easily. But she started to date a
man named David Kellett who was about five years older.
He had a reputation as a troublemaker and had a

(20:43):
police record, but it wasn't anything too serious. He drove
a delivery truck for the Abatar. He was friends with
Charlie Knight, Caath's brother. The pair would spend the whole
weekend drinking and raising hell. Charlie brought day at home
one night for dinner and introduced him to his twin sisters.
They were with hull Raisers too, and soon were going
to the pub with Charlie and David for fun. Sometimes

(21:05):
they'd shoot at passing trains. Once they shot a steer,
cut it up with a chainsaw and barbecue it. Kath
insisted on skinning it and saving the hide. They'd go
rabbit hunting, and again Catherine's favorite part was skidding them.
One night of the pub, Kathy knocked out a miner's
teeth after he insulted David. Several men had to pull

(21:26):
her off the man. She was kicked out of the
bar and told not to come back. Others in the
bar thought she had too much to drink, but the
bartender knew her secret. She wasn't drunk, just impulsive and violent.
David was a bit of a hellion, but he carried
himself with a kind, polite charm and had a generous
heart for Katherine. This was her first serious relationship, and

(21:48):
she dove in head first. Her intensity in the bedroom
surprised David, but he also saw a softer, more nurturing
sight of her, one that stood in stark contrast to
the top persona. She ped at the Abbatoar. She cooked well, sewed,
and kept a tidy home. Before long, David moved into
her apartment. Feeling like one of the luckiest men alive.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
I feel like that's foreshadowing. What do you mean, I
feel like maybe he wasn't really the luckiest man alive.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Well, he felt like that for a time, right. He
had an odd conversation with Barbara Knight when they met
for the first time. In her crude way, she warned
him not to marry Catherine. Quote, you'd better watch that
one or she'll fucking kill you. Stir her up the
wrong way or do the wrong thing, and you're fucked.
Don't ever think of playing up on her. She'll fucking

(22:38):
kill you. In nineteen seventy four, shortly after Catherine turned eighteen,
she and David got married. She wore a pink mini
dress with a large bow in the center of her chest.
David dressed up in a purple Paisley shirt with a
Peter Pan collar and a lavender tie.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I had a Paisley shirt when I was a little kid.
I remember seeing I loved that shirt so much.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Very handsome in that picture, or should I say beautiful
because you kind of looked like a little girl.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, I was only like seven years old, so to
call me hansome, you know, I don't know. It was
really young.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Catherine stood a full head taller than her diminutive groom,
and both sported the popular shag hairstyle from the seventies.
They hopped onto her motorcycle and rode to the next
town to make it official at the registry office. David
had recently lost his license, not that it mattered, he
wasn't in any condition to drive that day anyway. The
couple spent the rest of the day celebrating and drinking

(23:30):
with family at the local pub. I believe at some
point Catherine switched from drinking lemonade to actual alcohol. When
they returned to their apartment, Catherine tore David's clothes off
to consummate their marriage. They had sex three times before
David nodded off, impressive really, considering how much alcohol he'd consumed,
but Catherine was insatiable and angrily slapped him and pounded

(23:54):
his chest with her fists, trying to wake him up.
When she was unable to wake him, he mounted him
and wrapped her hands strong from the manual labor of
her work around his neck and strangled him. He was
jerked awake, gasping for breath, not aware that his new
bride had attempted to kill him. As he slowly became
aware of the pain around his neck, he realized that

(24:16):
Catherine had choked him merely to death. She apologized and
told him that she'd gotten a little carried away and
begged him to come back to bed. They needed to
have sex at least two more times. She pleaded, more
than satisfied, proud even of their three earlier rounds. He
was confused. Catherine said, quote, Daddy did it five times
on his wedding night, and we need to do it

(24:37):
at least that many times. David was suddenly completely sober
and scared. Who had he married? Had Barbara been right?
He sweetly told Kath that he'd be ready again. After
a quick trip to the bathroom, He locked the door,
crawled into the bathtub, and promptly fell asleep while his
new wife angrily pounded on the door. When that's a

(24:57):
wedding night, you're not soon going.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
To forget that is pretty memorable.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well, despite their rocky wedding night, Catherine and David settled
into wedded bliss. She was able to control her impulsive
anger and was the perfect wife for the most part.
She still slapped David when she was angry, but he
refused to hit her back. Kathy took care of all
of David's needs and the domestic chores, all while meeting
the physical demands her job. But within the first year

(25:24):
of their marriage, Kathy became increasingly twitchy. If David was
home one minute later than she expected him, her mind
immediately went to dark places. She was sure he was
seeing other women behind her back, and the thought crushed her.
She loved him so much, he was her everything, and
she needed the same level of love returned to her.
But David was faithful. He thought, other than her occasional

(25:47):
irrational anger, she was the wife he wanted. He gave
up his truck driving for a lower paying job on
the plant floor so Catherine could keep an eye on him.
David instantly missed his old job. He wasn't as big
as the other men on the life and couldn't keep
up with a fast pace. He grew depressed and began
spending more time drinking, first with Catherine at his side,

(26:07):
but she preferred the comfort of their nights at home.
She was drawn to the comforts of cooking, tending to
their home, sewing and patching David's clothes, But she couldn't
trust him to sit in the pub by himself, or
could she. Catherine decided to allow her husband a little
more freedom to pursue the things that brought her joy.
When she became pregnant at age nineteen, her fits of

(26:28):
rage worsened, maybe in part because of the unrelenting morning sickness.
Catherine was conflicted about becoming pregnant. Part of her crave
the love and connection she was denied growing up, while
another part resented the responsibility of bearing a child and
feared passing on her own trauma. The emotional tug of
war in part fueled her volatility. One night, David came

(26:48):
home only long enough to change into a clean shirt
before he headed to the pub. A slow anger nod
at her until she combusted. She was sure that he
was cheating, despite his denials. Later he admitted I had
a few morals in the early days of her marriage.
I remained faithful up until she was four months pregnant.
Catherine gathered all of her husband's clothes, many sewn by

(27:11):
her own hand, threw them into the bathtub, doused them
with accelerant, and set them ablaze. As the smoke poured
from their apartment, neighbors called the fire department to put
out the fire. Many of the firefighters were called from
the pub to the Kellet's apartment. David went along to
witness the excitement, unaware that it was his home that
was on fire. After the fire, they moved to a

(27:32):
small house on the ironically named Honeymoon Lane. David was
so embarrassed by the fire he didn't return to the
pub for several weeks.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
So what she did actually worked.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Kind of, but of course he couldn't stay away for long.
David never knew which wife would greet him sweet, doting
Kathy or fiery Catherine. One night, when he returned home,
she threw a hot iron at his face, causing severe burns.
He screamed in agony and ran to the bathroom, locking
the door behind him. Catherine beat at the door with
a hot iron, yelling at him to come out. Moments later,

(28:05):
she realized what she'd done and began sobbing, begging for forgiveness.
David forgave her but he was in great pain and
needed medical treatment, but held off going to the hospital
because he knew his wife would be arrested for the abuse.
The next day, David's supervisor, shocked at the severity of
his injury, took him to the hospital for treatment. The
marriage became untenable. David was constantly scared for his life,

(28:30):
and Catherine, between her bouts of fury, pretended to be
the perfect wife, but one false move would set her
off again, even if he was only one minute later
than he promised. Despite her commitment to quell the violence,
the next time David came home minutes late, he was
hid in the face with a cast iron skillet. He
lay on the ground unconscious for an hour before he

(28:51):
awoke and crawled to the neighbor's house. They called an
ambulance and he was rushed to the hospital, severely concussed
with a fractured skull. He awoke to Catherine lovingly stroking
his face, holding his hand, and quietly weeping. The trauma
was so severe that David had no memory of the incident.
Like many victims of domestic abuse, he found himself trapped

(29:12):
in the endless cycle of violence, remorse, and hollow promises
of change. Despite everything, David never spoke harshly to Catherine,
nor did he ever raise a hand against her. It's
important to note here that domestic violence victims can be
male or female. And a lot of times I think
men feel, you know, like I can't raise a hand

(29:32):
to a woman. And really David took a lot of abuse,
and by all accounts he was a real sweet man.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
It's interesting that the patterns are very similar, whether it's
a man doing the abusing or whether it's a woman
doing the abusing.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
There was another grace period full of love and happiness,
until a dart tournament went long one night and Catherine
waited with the skillet in hand. Again. This time, David
was ready for the attack and avoided a direct hit.
He ran from the house and spent the night on
her friend's ca He loved the sweet side of his wife.
What the angry abuse of wife scared him. All of
Catherine's fears about David leaving her were about to come

(30:08):
to fruition. He was seeing another woman on the side
from Queensland. When she told him that she was also pregnant.
David started thinking about leaving Catherine, who was nearing the
end of her pregnancy. He returned home the night after
the frying pan incident with fresh pork chops from the
butcher and flowers. All was once again forgiven in a
period of calm ensued. Six weeks later, in May nineteen

(30:31):
seventy six, Catherine's water broke. She called her parents in
a panic to take her to the hospital. They left
in a rush. David offered to pack a suitcase for
Catherine and meet them at the hospital as soon as possible,
but instead of packing Catherine's things, he escaped to the pub,
leaving Catherine alone and afraid at the hospital at the
time she needed him most. The ultimate betrayal delivered at

(30:52):
the very worst time. Realizing her worst fears.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
And the labor was long and torturous, Catherine wailed. Her
screams of pain, both physical and emotional, echoed through the
hospital corridors. She was forlorn that her husband didn't show
up for her and his new daughter, Melissa Anne. Kath
and David had fought over the name because Melissa was
the name of a previous girlfriend, but ultimately he won
the battle. Her sister Joy went to the pub looking

(31:17):
for David and recruited his friends to search for him.
After enduring nearly two months of Cathy's volatile postpartum rage,
David slipped away quietly. He left both Kathy and their
infant daughter Melissa behind, heading north to Queensland to be
with the other woman, who was already pregnant with his
second child. Before disappearing, he made one final stop at

(31:37):
the abattoir to quit his job, offering no explanation to
anyone about where he was going or why. The despair
of losing her husband prevented her from bonding with her
new sweet baby, Melissa Anne. Over time, Catherine's deep despair
transformed into seething anger. As her broken heart mended, scabbed over,
and turned black. She plotted her revenge on the man

(31:58):
she had taken such good care of and loved so well.
Catherine had been right to question if she was fit
for motherhood. Sadly, she was not cut out for it
at all, and baby Melissa from the very beginning, suffered
horrible neglect and abuse from her volatile mother. Catherine could
be seen pushing the stroller that had been gifted to
her from her parents up and down the streets of Aberdeen.

(32:19):
Yelling at the tiny infant. No one brave enough to
stop her. The whole town was aware of her history
of impulsive violence.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
I think the streets were in bad repair, and poor
baby Melissa, like you know, our head was going. Yeah,
she was jostling around, and she was just angrily pushing
the stroller up and down the streets, and probably it
sounded like a little bit like she could have had
shaken babysit. Yeah, it sounded horrible.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Eventually, Catherine was picked up by the police and they
found her hysterically crying and clearly in the throes of
a mental breakdown, likely fueled by the abandonment of her husband,
postpartum hormones, and her usual fits of rage. Melissa was
taken to Catherine's parents' house. Whilene was taken to a
psychiatric hospital. When they found that Kathy was struggling to

(33:04):
read and write. She was given an IQ test and
she scored in the low eighties, which is on the
low end of the average.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
And where you again in the IQ range.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
No comment. They found her to be an interesting case. Catherine,
according to the psychologists who were treating her, performed at
a base level. Her instincts and impulses were more in
line with a caveman than a woman in modern society.
She was diagnosed with psychopathy compounded by narcissism, and they
suspected she suffered from borderline personality disorder too. Catherine was

(33:35):
in the hospital for about a week before she was released.
With several prescriptions in hand. She picked up the baby
from her parents' house and went home to her sad,
empty house. The next night, a man named Ted Abrahams,
a war veteran who struggled with PTSD, was foraging for
some wild mushrooms near the railroad tracks. He was a
familiar sight in Aberdeen, and most residents gave him a

(33:57):
wide berth. Ted was good at minding his own business
and keeping to himself. When he heard a small baby
crying incessantly, he ignored her cries until he realized that
the baby had been placed directly on the tracks, which
were vibrating from an approaching train in the distance. He
ran and scooped up the baby, saving her young life.
The baby was Melissa. In another incident, a truck driver

(34:19):
was leaving the pub and found Melissa in the back
of his truck in her pram ah so horrible, non horrible. Well,
so he picked up the baby from the railroad tracks,
and then she was returned to Catherine. After that, I.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Don't think she was I think that she went to
stay with Kath's parents again.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Catherine was found wandering around town, lathered up in a fury.
She had stolen an axe from a neighbor's backyard and
began swinging it wildly in a murderous rage. Her eyes
were wild, with guttural grunts escaping her lips as she
moved with a frenzied, almost feral rage. The police again
captured her. She was taken back to the hospital, her

(34:55):
meds adjusted, and released. Soon after. Her parents again picked
her up and her home, but this time they were
wiser and kept Melissa with them. Aberdeen was a small town,
and news and gossip traveled quickly. The whole town was
on edge, worried when Catherine would strike next. No one
felt safe. A few nights later, sixteen year old Margaret
macbeth was home babysitting her brother while her parents were out.

(35:19):
Catherine pounded on the door frantically. When Margaret answered, Catherine said, quote,
my baby is sick and I don't have my car.
I need to get to her. Will you take me please.
Once Catherine, Margaret and her brother were in the car,
Catherine told her that they were driving to Queensland. David
was in Queensland. Poor Margaret was terrified. She protested and
said her brother should get to stay at home because

(35:40):
he had school the next day. She saw a large
knife glinting that sat on the seat next to Catherine.
Catherine told her shut up and drive. When Margaret hedged,
Catherine reached across the seat and slashed her in the
cheek with the knife. Her brother yelled from the back
seat it was lucky that the car was nearly out
of gas. Margaret pointed to the gage and told Catherine
that they would need to stop before their thousand mile journey.

(36:03):
She relented and allowed the girl to stop to fill
the tank. Margaret calmly walked into pay and then pleaded
with the attendant to call the police. Quote, please, you've
got to help me me and my brother. We've been kidnapped.
It's Catherine Knight. She's got a knife. She wants me
to drive her to Queensland. She did this to my face.
Please call the police. Please. Margaret was too frightened to

(36:25):
return to the car. Her brother took his chance and
bolted from the back seat, but Catherine caught him by
the collar and threw him to the ground and held
a knife to him. She yelled to Margaret to get
back in the car, but she refused. If she could
stall for a few more minutes, the police would arrive.
She could hear the sirens in the distance. Catherine, in
her fit of rage, didn't seem to notice. The police

(36:46):
approached carefully and asked her to let the boy go,
but she refused. She threatened them all, waving the knife wildly. Eventually,
she released the boy from her grasp and he ran
to safety. Catherine punched and swiped at the officers in
her reach until someone knocked the knife out of her
hand using a long broom handle. It took two officers
to wrestle her to the ground, handcuff her, and throw

(37:07):
her into the back of a police car. This time
she was admitted to a high security facility, Morisset Psychiatric Hospital.
It sits on two hundred acres in a park like setting.
Catherine was not an ideal patient. She was disruptive, rude, violent,
and confrontational. She spat the medication out into the faces
of the staff and destroyed her room. With time, she

(37:29):
became more compliant, but ultimately the staff believed that no
amount of therapy or medication would help her. She was
besieged with getting revenge on David. In every therapy session.
She was forthcoming that she wanted to kill and she'd
find a way to do it. She was angry with
her parents too, and felt abandoned by them. I'm glad
that she has been committed to a high security psychiatric institution.

(37:52):
It sounds like that's where she belongs.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, she was definitely struggling with her mental health and
her violent impulses.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yeah. I have a bad feeling though, that she is
not going to remain.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
There, probably not as long as she needed to be.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
We'll be back after a break.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Before we jump back into the case, I have a
halftime stack for you.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Get ready, Yes, I am.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
This is a very simple, yet delicious snack that is
often served at birthday parties for Australian children. Oh, it's
called fairy bread.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
It's just a piece of white bread with butter and
sprinkles on it.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I put a little powdered sugar on it because I
can't be well left alone. Yes, do you want to
try it?

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I sure do.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Did you like the fairy bread?

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah? I mean it was bread and butter with sugar
on it, so it was good.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Just a pretty cute little tree, yeah. Yeah. And you're
having a cup of tea so perfect perfect. David was
worn by police about Catherine's vendetta against him. He felt
exceptionally guilty and responsible for his wife's mental breakdown. He
and his mother moved back to Aberdeen to help care
for Catherine, leaving him behind his very pregnant girlfriend. He
got his old job back at the Slaughterhouse and rented

(39:13):
a small apartment. After she'd been in the hospital for
about a month, Catherine was released into his custody on
August ninth, nineteen seventy six. David also picked up baby
Melissa from the Knight's house. When he knocked on the
farmhouse door, Barbara was done to see him standing there.
Her shock quickly turned to fury as she lashed out,
striking him with her fists and shouting through tears, blaming

(39:36):
him for destroying her daughter's life. David fell to the
ground while Barbara kicked him. Poor David can't get a break.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Oh I know.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Katherine, who was waiting in the car partially zoned out
because the amount of drugs she'd been prescribed, ran to
her husband's defense. She punched her mother, clipping her in
the jaw, knocking her off her feet. Quote. Don't you
ever lay a hand on David again. He saved me.
You left me to run, and he came back for me.
He's mine, mine. You never even get to look at

(40:05):
him again.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Boy.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Catherine took the sleeping baby from her father's arms and
left with David and his mother to the new apartment,
But soon the gossip and judgmental eyes of the townspeople
of Aberdeen were too much for all of them, and
they relocated again to Woodbridge, a quiet suburb of Brisbane,
with missus Kellett tending to the baby in the house.
Catherine had a job at another abatoar. She again impressed

(40:27):
her bosses and co workers with her knife skills, but
soon Catherine found herself bored. As much as she hated
being fodder for the town's gossips and Aberdeen, she equally
hated not getting attention. She'd been consistent with the medication,
but didn't like how it quelled her spirit. She missed
the strong emotions surging through her body. It was better
than the constant numbness. Even her feelings toward the husband

(40:51):
that she had loved so passionately had cooled. Her greatest
joy was finding animals on the road to hit with
her car. She settled into a rhythm for a few
years before, on March sixth, nineteen eighty, Natasha Marie Kellett,
Catherine and David's second child, was born. This time, David
was by her side, holding her hand and encouraging her.

(41:12):
In nineteen eighty four, when Melissa was eight and Natasha four,
Catherine twenty nine, filed for divorce and took the girls
with her back to Aberdeen and moved in with her parents.
David seemed relieved and didn't contest her decision.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Can't say I blame him.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Catherine returned to her old slaughter house, where she'd had
such a stellar reputation before her troubles began. She was
again a star employee, but tragedy struck two years later
when she suffered a debilitating back injury. She was granted
a disability pension in worker's compensation through her union along
with the Government Housing Commission apartment on the outskirts of Aberdeen.

(41:47):
She never worked again in her beloved abatar.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
I have a bad feeling that the abattoir was an
outlet for her urgas that she had to kill things,
and now that she can't work there anymore, it's not
going to be good.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
That's a various too observation.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Now, single, Catherine began going to the pubs at night,
leaving her young girls alone. She met a thirty eight
year old miner named David Saunders at the Aberdeen Bowling Club.
So this is the second David in her life. Remember,
Catherine loved the domestic arts. She was an excellent cook
and caregiver. When the spirit moved her, David felt like
the luckiest man alive, much like the first David did.

(42:23):
In the beginning of their relationship, he began spending most
of his time at her house. He adored Melissa and Natasha.
When he surprised them with the puppy, the girls instantly
fell in love. They were a happy little family, but
soon the trajectory of their relationship went much the same
as her last David had heard the rumors around town
about Catherine's temper, but chose not to believe them. Catherine

(42:46):
constantly accused him of cheating. During one argument, to drive
her point home, she grabbed the puppy by the scruff
of its neck and slid its throat, warning David she
would do the same to him if he was unfaithful.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Oh that is Oh, that's so horrible.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Her rage and callousness was shocking. She then grabbed her
favorite cast iron skillet and began to beat him over
the head until he lost consciousness. When he came to,
he was in rough shape, but he was able to
drive home to his apartment, where he stayed for a
week nursing his wounds until Catherine showed up. He was
horrified to see her, sure she was there to finish
him off, but she sobbed, begged him for forgiveness and

(43:24):
promised it would never happen again. He forgave her and
the relationship resumed.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Don't believe her, David.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Soon Catherine was pregnant again. This was David's first child
and he wanted to do things right. He bought a
small plain house in Aberdeen for his growing family. Catherine,
who had always rented, was Thrilled to finally have a
place to call her own, she threw herself into decorating
the house and set to work, immediately decorating every inch
of the tiny house with her own special brand of

(43:51):
interior design. The walls and even the ceilings were covered
in animal pelts, cowhides, water, buffalo and fur wraps, alongside
deer horns, sheep and cowskulls, and deer antlers. Prominently displayed
among the macab menagerie were a stuffed peacock and a
baby deer, rusted animal traps, leather coats and a motorcycle jacket. Sheddies, rakes, boots,

(44:14):
a writing crop and saddle, and a massive wooden fork
and spoon hung from the rafters and walls, while her
beloved knives glimmered from their designated spot above her bad
Every available surface overflowed with old newspapers, clothes, books, and
bric a brac. Her extensive video collection unsurprisingly focused almost
entirely on horror and death. Just brushing against a wall

(44:37):
was liable to give you tetanus, but to Catherine it
was perfect.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Sounds like a horror movie.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
It does. I saw a video that had footage from
the house and it was pretty much like it's described.
I'll try to find some pictures to post, but it's crazy.
When Sarah, Catherine's third daughter, was born in June nineteen
eighty eight, Catherine, then thirty two, suffered another mental break
down of swords. After her birth, the children in the
house and David all went unattended. He would return from

(45:05):
work exhausted and angry at the state of things. David
wasn't afraid to yell at Catherine for the condition of
the house and children. One day, when he didn't have
any more clean clothes, he confronted her. In response, she
took his shirts and pants one by one and cut
them in half. When he protested scissors in hand, she
stabbed him in the gut. She twisted the scissors before

(45:25):
removing them. When she grabbed for the iron, he ran
from the house, leaving a bloody trail behind him. He
jumped into his car straight to the hospital. Luckily, the
wound wasn't as deep as it seemed, and Catherine missed
his vital organs. He didn't return for several months. He
sent cards, letters, and gifts to the girls, but Catherine
never let them see any of it. She threw everything

(45:46):
right into the trash. David planned to rescue the three
girls from Catherine, but as he drove into Aberdeen, he
was pulled over by the police and notified that she
had accused him of domestic violence and filed an a
v O against him, or an aprinded violence order, which
is much like a restraining order. David was told he
needed to leave Aberdeen immediately or he would be arrested,

(46:07):
so he left. Catherine received a substantial payout from the Slaughterhouse,
around fifteen thousand dollars, which she used to pay off
the house, planning to take it over from David. To remember,
he bought the house right.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Catherine first met John Chillingworth when she was a teenager
working at the Slaughterhouse, so.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
We have two John's and two David's, okay.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
At the time he turned down her advances. He had
been tempted, but she was ten years younger. But when
John returned to Aberdeen in nineteen eighty nine after divorcing
his wife, the two reconnected. Catherine quickly seduced him, and
like the men before him, John believed that he had
struck gold. John spent most of his free time at
the pub before he went to Catherine's house and ravaged her.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
If it's not clear up to this point, Catherine had
a voracious sexual appetite and the men were very satisfied.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Okay, Catherine had easily manipulated both David's, each of them
in tim by her explosive temper, But John was different.
He wasn't afraid to fight back. Melissa, who was fifteen
at the time, had already dropped out of school like
her mother and was dating much older men. Soon she
would be pregnant with her first child, making Katherine a grandmother.
She had inherited Catherine's fiery disposition. When she saw John

(47:18):
strike her mother, Melissa confronted him, shouting in his face.
John responded by slapping Melissa. Catherine became pregnant again. John
kept his distance for much of the pregnancy, worn down
by her mood swings and constant accusations of infidelity, But
unlike her previous relationships, Catherine's suspicions were justified. John was
seeing other women. In late nineteen ninety one, Catherine gave

(47:42):
birth to her fourth and final child, a son named Eric.
Not long after, she began experiencing episodes of postpartum rage.
In one outburst, she punched John so hard his false
teeth flew from his mouth and scattered across the floor.
He left that night to stay at his apartment, but
when he returned the next time day, he found Catherine
in a dire state. She had overdosed on sleeping pills.

(48:05):
John rushed her to the hospital, where doctors pumped her stomach. Afterwards,
she was admitted to the mental hospital again for another
week to stabilize her and get her back on track.
When Catherine returned home, she thought she would give John
a taste of his own medicine. She had planned it perfectly,
timing it so that when John came home, he would
find her in bed with another man, John Price. He

(48:26):
didn't say a word, He simply turned around and walked out,
this time for good. He moved to a different town,
got sober, and eventually began helping others by becoming an
addiction counselor.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Finally some good news.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
John Price was born in April nineteen fifty five, the
oldest of six children. He was a mind supervisor and
a recently divorced father of three, a son and two daughters.
He and his wife Colleen had separated amicably after fifteen
years of marriage. A fight between John's father and brother
resulted in his mother's death when she was accident shot

(49:00):
with a bullet intended for the senior Price. The sun
was charged with manslaughter.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
So the Price family they were no strangers to tragedy.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah, it sounds like it. John and Catherine, both forty four,
had been having an affair for about a year when
John Chillingworth walked in on him and Katherine together. John
Price Pricey, to his friends, was a kind and gentle man.
Of course, there were arguments, but they weren't as violent
as with Catherine's past relationships. Kathy wanted to marry John,
but her reputation and one failed marriage was enough for him.

(49:32):
Plus the dynamics with all of their children was challenging
to work out. Instead, Catherine and her children moved into
John's house and surprisingly they were happy. All the children
liked each other and the fighting was kept to a minimum.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
I think by this time Natasha and Melissa were both
living on their own, okay, and I couldn't confirm the
age of John's children, but I think that they were
older too, except for he had one that was very young, okay,
so I think that it might have just been like
the three younger child in the house.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Okay. But after an ugly fight, spiteful Catherine reported John
to the mind management for stealing some expired medical kits
that he had retrieved from the garbage.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
And I wouldn't even consider this stealing. They were in
the garbage, so he just took them.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Right, seemingly a benign offense, but he was fired after
seventeen years of service to the mine. Furious John kicked
Catherine and her children out of his house, tossing their
belongings onto the curb. She was hell bent on revenge,
and the punishment she had in mind was so savage,
so unforgettable, it would echo through time and be remembered
for generations. I think I'm fearful for what is to

(50:37):
come in this story.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
It gets pretty grizzly here.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Catherine offered her nephew five hundred dollars to steal John's car,
set it on fire, and throw battery acid in his face.
Her nephew refused. She didn't bother hiding her intentions, telling
her brother outright quote, I'm going to kill Pricey and
I'll get away with it because I'll pretend I'm insane.
But after about a month and allowed her back into

(51:01):
his life. He had taken the loss of his one
hundred thousand dollars a year job hard, drinking heavily every
day and burning through his savings until he got a
job in construction. John's concerned friends staged and intervention of sorts.
They summoned David Kellett, Catherine's first husband, to the bar
with his scarred face to divulge all of his war
stories about Catherine. David had never been okay again after

(51:24):
the attack with the iron. He lived in hiding because
he was afraid Catherine would finish him off. He warned
David that she was capable of terrible things, even murder.
John listened closely and seemed to take his warnings to
heart because he didn't allow Catherine to move into his
house again despite her persistent please, although she did spend
a lot of time there.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
John lost a lot of mates over his relationship with Catherine.
They saw how dangerous and volatile she was, and when
he kept taking her back, they just got kind of disgusted,
and you know, like they tried to stage this intervention
for him and tried to show him like, this could really,
you know, you could end up dead, and he just didn't.
He knew that she was capable of it, but for

(52:07):
some reason, he just kept taking her back.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Soon after, they had a huge fight and Catherine stabbed
him with a knife in the chest. It missed his heart,
but it shocked him. It was a serious wound, but
he put a band aid on it and didn't seek
medical treatment. Police arrived and served John with a restraining
order that Kathy had filed against him. She showed the
police bruises that he had allegedly left on her. Despite

(52:30):
the restraining order, Kath was still at his house and
made his lunch the next morning, February twenty ninth, two
thousand leap day. At work, coworkers noticed blood seeping from
the wound through his shirt. He was feeling frazzled and anxious.
He confided to his boss that he had awoken the
night before to find Catherine looming over him, leering at
him with her hands behind her back. His boss offered

(52:52):
to let him stay in his guesthouse, but John didn't
want anyone else to get hurt in the crosshairs. John
banned Kath from his house and filed a restrain order
against her. He was done with the six year tumultuous relationship,
but a restraining order meant nothing to Catherine Knight. John
was still fearful. He told his coworkers quote, if I
don't show up for work tomorrow, it'll be because she

(53:13):
killed me. It was a chilling premonition. Tragically, John never
showed up for work the next day or any day thereafter.
When he got home that night, he jumped when someone
pounded on his door, But John was grateful to see
his friendly neighbor, Anthony Keegan or Keego, who invited him
over for a drink. They spent the evening drinking in
the garden together, John opening up about how badly he

(53:35):
wanted Catherine, or the speckled hen as he called her,
out of his life. John stumbled home around eleven and
fell into a peaceful slumber until he was awoken by
a very unwelcome intruder who climbed into his bed.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
In the shadows of John's day, Catherine had lurked watching
him from afar, plotting her vengeance. She'd taken the video
camera that John had given her as a gift for
Christmas and made a video walking around her house, citing
ownership of her possessions in case of her death. There
was also footage of her happily playing with her children
and grandchild. She took all of her children out to

(54:09):
dinner that night at a Chinese restaurant and asked Natasha
to take Sarah and Eric home with her for the night.
Then Kath drove to town to buy a new lingerie
set for the seduction she planned. Later, while John was
drinking with his neighbor, Catherine showered and changed into her
seductive outfit and waited for him. She heard him come
in and fall into bed. When she heard storing, she

(54:30):
crawled into bed with John, mounted him, and began having sex.
He awoke after a few moments and was equal parts
horrified and grateful for the carnal pleasure. While still engaged
in sex, she produced a knife and stabbed John in
the chest over and over again, a filling a long
held dark fantasy. Drunk and groggy, John was slow to

(54:50):
react at first, but as he gathered awareness, he jumped
up and bolted out of the room, only to find
himself weakened by the sudden loss of blood. Kat struck
him twice more on his broad back before he fell
to the carpeted floor, instantly soaking it in blood. He
crawled to the front door and was able to reach
the handle while Catherine was still stabbing away at him.
He opened the door and pulled himself to the porch,

(55:12):
but he was spent and unable to yell as one
of his lungs was punctured. Catherine, full of adrenaline and excitement,
grabbed him by the ankles and pulled him back into
the house. After suffering thirty seven stab wounds, Pricey was dead.
As the high of finally fulfilling her deadly fantasy faded,
the reality of what she'd done quickly set in, spurring

(55:33):
her into action. She cleaned herself of John's blood in
the shower and then drove into Aberdeen with John's ATM
card in her hand. She withdrew as much money as
she could, about one thousand dollars, planning to flee to
a new town, but when she returned to the scene
of the crime, she devised a new plan. And oddly,
this money was never accounted for. They knew that she'd

(55:53):
withdrawn it, but they don't know where it went interesting. Okay,
this is where we need to insert a trigger warning
because it is very gruesome and grizzly. What happens next. Okay,
Remember that Catherine was an expert with her knives, and
she took pride in how sharp she kept them. It
was as if she'd been treating her whole life for
this moment. She took a long knife and with one

(56:14):
strong thwack, she separated John's head from his body. She
severed his genitals and began meticulously separating his skin from
his tissues with her skilled knife work. When her work
was complete, she hung his skin from the ceiling beams,
giving it a curtain like effect. Her technique was so
skilled that John's skin was later able to be pieced

(56:36):
together and sewn back together onto his body. Catherine placed
John's skinned head into a large soup pot on the stove,
threw in some hastily chopped vegetables zucchini, potato, squash, cabbage,
and topped it off with water, and then turned the
burner to hide. Inspired by the soup her mother maid
when she was a child from a pig's head, wanting

(56:58):
more meat in her gruesome stew, she added more of
John's flesh to her pot. She severed John's buttocks, cut
them into five pieces, and roasted them in the oven.
I think your face is indicative of probably every listener's face,
that this is just so disgusting it is. She put
some of the meat out for the dog, who never
touched it. Perhaps worse than her crime was that she

(57:19):
intended to feed the meal to John's two children, Becky
and John Junior. She heaped two plates with the grotesque
stew and placed them on the table, with their names
written on a paper towel next to each dish. Kath
positioned John's body on a chair with a left arm
draped over an empty leader of soda, with his legs
crossed in a lifelike pose. She left a crudely written

(57:41):
note with poor grammar and spelling, quote, time got you back,
Jonathan for raping my daughter. You to back for ross
for little John. Now play with the little John's dick,
John Price. I'm not sure what all this means, but
she's implying that John was a pedophile and raped her daughter. Okay,
when she thought the meal was ready, she took a bite,

(58:03):
but despite her madness, she spat it out repulsed, not
just by the taste of it, but by what she
had done. In one of the books I read, it
said that she took a bite, but I don't think
anyone knows for sure whether she took a bite. Right, Okay,
Catherine was snapped back to the reality of her crime.
She realized that she had crossed a line so dark
no excuse or twisted logic could justify the horror and

(58:23):
depravity of her actions. She swallowed every sleeping pill she
could find in the house, then crawled back into John's
bloody bed, pulled the covers over her head, and drifted
off into a heavy drug induced sleep. We'll be back
after a break. How are you doing? That was rough?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
That was really rough. Yeah, it's super disturbing. Yeah, I'm
hanging in there, though. I was kind of expecting it
when we were talking earlier about the whole slaughterhouse thing
and her knives and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
So yeah, I tried to write it not too disgusting graphic.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
But it's just yeah, it's hard to hard not to
describe it in a way that's not going to be
disturbing for people.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Wnette. I initially read about it, I literally got sick
to my stomach.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised when John failed to show
up for work the next morning. He was never late.
His co workers, well aware of the volatile situation with
Catherine and his dire prediction the day before, grew alarmed
and went to check on him. But they weren't the
only ones worried about John. His neighbor Keego, who he
had had beers with the previous night, noticed that his

(59:31):
truck was still outside of his house after six am,
and John was always gone for work by then. Keego
glanced through the windows but couldn't see much, just John's
work boots by the door, which struck him as odd.
Even more alarming was the blood on the front door.
Concern growing, he called a few friends to see if
anyone had heard from John, but no one had. Before long,

(59:52):
a small crowd had gathered outside the brick house, anxiously
waiting for the police to arrive. Keego had also reached
out to John's son, Jonathan, to let him know that
something was wrong. Meanwhile, a friend drove past Catherine's house
but didn't see her car. They then stopped by her
twin sister Joy's place, but she hadn't seen Catherine or John.
When the police arrived, Even before they stepped inside, it

(01:00:15):
was clear that something unspeakable had happened. Blood stained the walkway,
bloody handprints smeared the front door. Four officers pried the
back door open with a crowbar and stepped inside. What
they found defied comprehension and instantly changed them and their
understanding of a human's capacity for evil. The scene was
a grotesque display of violence and madness, so disturbing, so

(01:00:38):
deeply inhuman, it left scars on everyone who witnessed it.
Some of the officers who responded that day would never recover.
The stench of the scene stayed with them, embedded in
their nostrils, unescapable. One officer took their own life. Others
were so shaken they vowed never to eat meat again.
Catherine's brutality didn't just end one life, it shattered many,

(01:01:00):
especially those of her and John's children.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Here's a clip from two of the responding officers.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
There was something hanging blocking my entry into the hallway
of the house. I thought it looked like a some
type of blanket or some sort of covering that had
been placed up on the on the archway, so I
remember I used my left hand to push it aside,
and immediately I could feel coldness coming on my left arm.

(01:01:29):
So I looked down and my left arm was just
covered in blood. Initially I thought I'd injure myself breaking
through the back door, so I couldn't understand why my
arm was bleeding.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
As Graham and Scott tried to locate the missing man,
they are suddenly faced with the most horrific scene ever
to be witnessed. I realized then it was a human pelt.
It was a skin minus the head, a full skin
just hanging from from the top door froight look past
it saw a torsail on the ground, without a head

(01:02:02):
and without a genitalia. And I think my first reaction
in them was to turn around a scotty and tell
don't look squtty. Of course, that's the worst thing you
could say.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
I looked through I could look through there from there
into the lounge room, and I saw what appeared to
be a human being or what was left. And so
it was at that point that I realized, you know,
what had happened for something that I'd never seen before,
I'd never experienced. I had an immediate idea of what

(01:02:33):
had gone on. It was at that point that I
dream a service pistol.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
There was blood everywhere, a lone and blood. That's from
the door into the kitchen area. There's a pot on
the stove. I think I might have even said, Scotty,
I'll give you one guess where there it is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
I can't even imagine how traumatizing that would be, right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
I mean, like I said, I don't think you ever
recover from seeing so so grotesque.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
No, and even if you're you're a police officer and
you're trained, and you've experienced violence before, that's just a
whole other level that I'm sure you could not get
out of your your head.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Police found Catherine still sleeping in the bed, snoring away.
They woke her, but she was still in a drugged
haze and unable to respond to questions. They carried her
out of the house, handcuffed her, put her in the backyard,
and called an ambulance to take her to the psychiatric hospital.
When she awoke two days later, she feigned memory loss.
When questioned about John's murder, she admitted she was guilty,

(01:03:38):
but her actions were in self defense. The police were
alarmed when they were informed that Catherine's two younger children,
Sarah twelve and Eric ten, weren't in school that day.
After hours of searching, they were found safe with Natasha,
Catherine's second daughter. Catherine was arrested and her adjudication was
quickly sent in motion. She initially pleaded not guilty gilty,

(01:04:00):
claiming she had acted in self defense, a claim that
was ultimately found to have no merit. Judge Barry O'Keefe
allowed several people from the jury to dismiss themselves due
to the graphic nature of the case before the trial
was set to start. In October two thousand and one,
Catherine pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter, despite
the mountain of disturbing evidence against her. The judge refused

(01:04:23):
to allow the plea and forced her to be psychologically
evaluated by three psychologists to ensure that she was fit
to stand trial. He was afraid that she would later
appeal and claim insanity. It was then that she was
diagnosed with borderline personalities disorder and deemed fit for trial.
All three psychologists were in agreement with the diagnosis. After

(01:04:44):
the evaluation, the judge allowed her guilty plea and sentenced
her to life in prison without the possibility of being released,
the harshest sentence ever received by a woman in Australia.
The judge ordered that her record be marked never be released,
indicating the severity and exceptional nature of her crime. Catherine
appealed her sentence, calling it too severe, but the appeal

(01:05:06):
was denied. Because she has shown no remorse for Price's murder,
Kath has no hope of being released without properly exhibiting
genuine remorse, she has no pathway to parole. Catherine, who
turns seventy this year, is incarcerated at Silverwater Woman's Correctional
Center formerly known as Molawa Prison, where she is housed

(01:05:26):
in a solitary cell where she remains under strict supervision
and is prohibited from having access to knives.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
I would think that would be a pretty good policy
for all prisoners not to have access to knives.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Well, a lot of prisoners help cook meals, but Catherine
is a good cook, so I think she would like
to work in the kitchen. But I think this is
a really solid decision to keep her away from knives.
Silverwater is often referred to as Australia's meanest woman's prison.
Catherine is a level four prisoner, the most dangerous. However,
she's described as a model prisoner and has had no ins.

(01:06:00):
She works in the prison's earphone factory for about five
hours a day, where she earns the top wage. Kath
is often praised for her work ethic. She is respected
and feared by the other inmates, who call her Nana.
Catherine is seen as an arbitrator by the other inmates,
solving disputes among them. She has found God during her incarceration.
Her cell is filled with her arts and crafts projects,

(01:06:23):
including sewing, crocheting, pottery, and painting. Her art, in fact,
is displayed in other parts of the prison and even
sold anonymously. The only regular visitor she receives is her
twin sister Joy. She has had no contact with any
other family members that I'm aware of. A former Penthouse
pet model of Victoria Mbrie became close friends with Cath

(01:06:46):
while in prison. Shembrie called her a hoarder because your
cell is full of knitting, knickknacks and art, she said quote,
she is a gentle soul and not a criminal. To me,
she is a mediator at Malawa. She is someone who
sorted out problems before they got serious. She would pull
the girls in and try to get them to sort
out whatever it was before it ended up with someone

(01:07:07):
going into segro or segregation or getting more time added
to their sentence. She would stop girls stealing from each
other and stop girls from fighting. But she never did
it standing over anyone. She never raised her hands to anyone.
She was just someone who loved everyone. She organizes a
big ketch up every Friday. She organizes all the food
and make sure that everyone in the wing is part

(01:07:28):
of it. She includes every single person, even though she
doesn't really like. She does it to bring everyone together.
It stops a lot of problems from happening. A prison
guard called Kathy the prison boss quote. She's the top
boss of the jail. She takes no crap from anyone
and absolutely gives it to the guards.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Well, it certainly doesn't atone for what she did, but
I'm glad to hear she is making the most of
her prison experience.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
If some people thrive in the prison environment, yes, some
people are. I think she's safer there. I think everyone
is safer there. It's where she needs to be.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Rest in peace to John Price. Our thoughts are with
his family and Catherine's family, who I think they've all
suffered quite a lot through this tragedy. Yeah, for sure,
he sounded like a really genuinely good man. He would
do things like he had his ex wife had a
good relationship and one time she was going on vacation
and he put money into her bank account without telling her,

(01:08:21):
and he just everyone loved him. Yeah, it's very sad
that he was taken from this earth too soon. So
Catherine was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and we talk
about it in a lot of these cases. It's marked
by impulsivity, unstable relationships, and fear of abandonment. People with
borderline personality disorder believe they give everything to relationships and

(01:08:42):
blame the other party for not giving them enough back
in return, and are known to have a hair trigger temper.
Catherine may have inherited the disorder from her mother, who
exhibited similar traits. Her unstable upbringing, marked by turmoil and
a lack of a positive adult role model, may have
intensified the disorder, but after the trauma she experienced at
such a young age, her knife wielding rage fueled reactions

(01:09:05):
seemed justified to her and a means of protecting herself.
So that was the horrible story of Catherine Knight.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Oh that was a dark one. I'm going to need
to go out on the internet and find videos of
cute cats and puppies and babies.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
And everyone in the town of Aberdeen, this small town,
knew Catherine. They knew of her temperament and her rage.
Why do you think it was tolerated?

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
I don't know. I was thinking that early on. I
know she was put in an institution a couple of times,
several times, but it just seems like there were so
many warning signs. And I don't know. Sometimes you wonder like,
I don't know if it was back in older time,
not older times, but in the seventies eighties, right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yeah, Well John's murder occurred in two thousand, so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Yeah, long ago, right, But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
I think mental health is really hard in our society.
We don't really know how to properly deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
She was a functioning adult most of the time, and
you know, she could work a job, and I think
she could be loving and like her love bombing m
Like whenever you know, just in any domestic violent situation
when she injured a partner, right, she would be like, oh,
it'll never happen again. And I think that's her intention,
or anyone who is an abuser, that's their intention. But yeah,

(01:10:21):
you know, you can't keep that promise. No one ever
keeps that promise.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
I wonder, like with the love bombing, if that's because
of the borderline personality disorder, assuming that is what she had,
the fear of abandonment, Like if the love bombing was
because she was so scared of being abandoned, right, she
would had this temper, she would lash out, but then
she would try to get the guy back and make
sure he never went away again. So it was like
the cycle.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
I think she never felt love, you know, even some
I think some of her partners, like David kell At
her first husband, he did sound like he tried his best.
And they all drink a lot too. It seems like
alcohol definitely fueled a lot of this too. Right. There's
also a lot of generational trauma in Catherine's life. Her
mother Barbara, she had a lot of abuse in her life, right,

(01:11:06):
And I just where do you end the generational trauma?
How do you end generational trauma?

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Yeah, I mean I wish I knew the answer to that,
because that would be great to figure that out. But
the thing with her is it almost seems like she
had some traits of like a serial killer, like just
you know, she enjoyed killing animals and things like that.
So it almost seems like there was something miswired in
her brain. So she had kind of the combination of
generational trauma upbringing that was horrible, but she also just

(01:11:34):
had this kind of serial killer wiring in her brain
or something. And yeah, I don't know. It's not a
good outcome. I wonder how all of her exes felt
after this happened. They must have really felt like they
they dodged. Definitely totally well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
David Kellett, her first husband with you know, I haven't
seen a picture of I think he must have been
pretty disfigured from that hot iron hitting his face.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yeah, I have.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
A great palette cleanser for everyone, especially our friends in Australia.
Everyone should go watch Colin from Accounts.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Yes, we should. We should finish I finish that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
We have a few episodes left. But we've really been
enjoying that show. It's such a sweet, funny show. I
recommend it just about everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
I think, Yeah, it's a great show.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Well, speaking of domestic violence, what is going on with
the French president?

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Oh, I don't know. That was crazy video.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
It was really crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Yeah, he said they were just like having fun with
each other, joking around, but that was clearly no. I
don't buy it at all.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
We've been married for a really long time, but I
don't think. I mean, I've never slapped you, You've never
slapped me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
For anyone who hasn't seen the video, they're on an
airplane and the airplane doors are opening, and I think
that they didn't realize the doors were open. And his
wife is sort of off camera a little bit, but
you can just see her like it wasn't really a
slap slap, but it was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
She kind of pushed his face aggressive.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Yeah, it was very aggressive looking. And then he turns
and he sees that the camera is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
On either Oh, it was like a snl skit really,
it just seemed like he was like, oh, hello everyone,
and he just had this big smile in his face.
It's very awkward. It made me worried for him, Like,
if you're doing that to your spouse in front of
a whole team of people. Yeah, gosh, your private life
can't be very well all there, No, I'm sure I
have a really important topic that I would like to address. Okay,

(01:13:24):
Catherine Knight was a redhead. Okay, I am a redhead,
and we kind of she deserves a bad rap. But
the belief that redheads have worse tempers than others is
largely a stereotype rather than a scientific fact. While red
hair is caused by mutation in the mc one R gene,
which can influence pain sensitivity and the body's response to

(01:13:46):
certain stimuli, there are no credible evidence no credible evidence
linking it to emotional regulation or anger. The idea likely
stems from cultural portrayals in literature and media, where redheads
are often depicted as fiery or hot tempered. Can you
get that look off your face right now?

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
I just want you to calm down, Tina.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Additionally, redheads may experience teasing or social exclusion, particularly during childhood,
which could lead to defensiveness that's sometimes mistaken for a
short temper. Overall, there is no inherent connection between having
red hair and being more prone to anger. So you
you have the great fortune of living with two redheads.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
So what is your What do you think about this?

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
I think what it is a loaded question. I think
what you said is absolutely true. There's obviously no connection
between your hair color and your temperament. That doesn't make
any sense.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
So yes, I do you think I'm short tempered?

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
No, You're not short tempered. You're you could be a
little fiery sometimes, but I don't think like any more
than anyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
Yeah, I'm going to give you some unique facts about redheads.
A couple of these things I actually didn't even know. Okay,
redheads are rare. Only one to two percent of the
people globally have natural red hair. The highest concentration is
in Scotland, followed by Ireland. Not surprising, red hair results
from mutation in the MC one R gene. Both parents

(01:15:14):
must carry this gene for a child to be a redhead,
even if neither parent has red hair themselves. So I
come from my parents both had very dark hair and
brown eyes, and I have like my hair is very
like Some people say, oh, I'm a redhead. No, I'm
definitely a redhead right yeah, oh halskin blue eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Yeah, And I don't know if any redheads in my family.
I can't. I'm trying to think if I have any
relatives who are redheads, and I don't. I can't think
of any.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
I think your mom had like red lints in her hair.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Yeah, well, on the rare occasion when I've grown my
beard out, I have a little bit of red in
my beard.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Studies show redheads may be more sensitive to thermal pain
like hot or cold, but less sensitive to certain types
of painkillers, especially local anesthetics. They may also require more
anesthesia during surgery. And this is true, I can attest
to it. Redheads have a biological advantage in low sunlight climates.

(01:16:09):
Their fair skin is more efficient at producing vitamin D
in response to limited UVB exposure. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
I didn't know that either.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Instead of turning gray, red hair tends to fade to
a silvery white or rose gold color over time. It
holds its pigment longer than other hair colors. That also,
I can attest to you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
That's interesting and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Really really lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Yeah, I thought the redheads went gray sooner, but I
didn't realize that we have.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
A little more pigment. Without revealing my age, I really
don't have many gray or white hair. My hair is
still pretty vibrant. Both red hair and left handedness are
recessive traits, and they sometimes show up together, like in
our daughter, I am right handed. Redheads typically have fewer
strands of hair on their head, about ninety thousand compared
to one hundred and ten thousand for brunettes and one

(01:16:58):
hundred and forty thousand for blondes, but each strand is thicker,
giving the appearance of full hair. Every time I get
a haircut, they're like, you have more hair than anyone
else I've ever seen. Research suggests that redheads have a
different sensitivity to temperature changes, meaning they feel hot or
cold more intensely than others. You're figuring so many things out.

(01:17:19):
I get so grumpy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
I did I learn all this? Like they should have
given me a manual?

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
I did I gave you a book about it. Some
studies have indicated redheads have a slightly longer bleeding time
or reduced clotting efficiency. Redheads tend to be more sensitive
to spicy flavors. Redheads may metabolize alcohol more quickly than
people with other hair colors. In ancient Egypt, some red
haired individuals were considered sacred or even sacrificed in rituals.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Oh that's not good.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
This is a negative one. Redheads are more likely, maybe
more likely to develop Parkinson's disease. Some studies suggest that
the mc one R gene may slow the visible signs
of aging, particularly in skin, due to its impact on
DNA repair and milanin production.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Well, that is certainly true of you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
So I don't know. I think I look okay, like amazing,
but I think I find.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
I was being sincere.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
I'm only about so I'm a unicorn. I am a
unicorn among redheads, only aboutzero point one seven percent of
the global population has both red hair and blue eyes.
Oh wow, you go, giving you way more information than
you need about redheads.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Our daughter is even more of a unicorn, having the
left handed thing and the red hair and the blue eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
There is are kind of bluish green. You might are
kind of a little bluish green too. But yeah, so
there you go. All you need to know about red a redhead.
If you see a redhead today, be nice to them. Yes,
And if a redhead seas another head redhead, we kind
of have a little like you give each other like
a little nod or a little a little secret smile
because it is a secret club.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Yeah you should.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
And if we see someone that is not a natural redhead,
you know, we know instantly because you're probably less awkward
and you know, you just have better coloring than we do.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
There you go. Well, thank you to our friends in
Australia who recommended this case to us. I hope we
did it justice. We are so grateful that you're all here.
Every listen, follow, review, and share helps us keep the
show going and growing and reminds us how lucky we
are to have such a thoughtful community. If you'd like
to reach out or on social media, or you can
email us at Lovemorykill at gmail dot com. If you

(01:19:29):
want even more content, head topatreon dot com slash love Marykill.
For just five dollars a month, you'll get early ad
free episodes and a monthly bonus episode. Our way of
saying thank you until next time.

Speaker 5 (01:19:42):
Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
The leading to the company with the

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