Michelle and Jason Young - Part 1 - Love Marry Kill

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one
thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Good morning, Rich, Good morning Tina.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
How are you.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm doing good?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'm pretty good. One of our dear listeners, Dianna and Denmark,
messaged me last night and asked if you could read
her essentially bedtime stories because she really likes your voice.
She pose the idea of maybe having a separate podcast
of you reading a book to her. Oh and what
did you say? In response to that?

Speaker 2 (00:51):
I said no, you said.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Absolutely not, which wasn't very nice because Dianna is lovely.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Dania Deanna is lovely. But yeah, I just I don't know.
I feel like I would feel really weird doing that.
I feel like if I did that, I would be
reading and I would try to make my voice sound
like relaxing, and that I would sound creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I didn't give you just talk like you talk normally
that I've said before. Your voice was really one of
the first things that caught my attention, which sounds so crazy,
but you do have like a nice measured way of talking.
I need to point out Deanna did not want me
to read the story.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, how did that make you feel?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
I totally understand, totally understand, no problem with that whatsoever.
But a lot of listeners have listened to all the
episodes and they have said, like, you know, could you guys,
what more can you give me? And I did think, well,
maybe we could have you read like Huckleberry Finn or
something like that, but you're not interested.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
In I don't know. If people really wanted it, I
would could do it. I guess it wouldn't be too
much work. It would just be reading, right right. Yeah,
I'll consider it.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
So I am going to give you a moment of vulnerability.
I am embarrassed to admit this, but I have been
obsessed with Love Island.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
I thought that it was going to be Love Island.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
So it's a special tree for listeners today because you've
been traveling a lot, so I've been able to spend
a little more time devoting myself to reality TV. Today's episode,
we're just going to talk about the first ten episodes
of Love Island, and then Part two will be the next.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
And I'm sure people will love that. That sounds great.
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
So if you are also listening to Love Island and
you're over the age of thirty five, let me know,
because it makes me feel super creepy. But I'm also
really intrigued.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
It seems like Love Island. I haven't watched it, but
it seems like a phenomenon. Like everywhere I go on
social media and read it or Blue Sky or whatever,
people are talking about it, So it must be a big.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
It's pretty compelling. And the kids on the show, they're
not kids. The people on the show are like our
kids age. So it just seems you know. So if
I have some words slipping out that are like mid
or I can't even think of any other words, But
it's because I've been influenced by a bunch of twenty somethings.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Good to know.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
So I've been making an effort to eat healthier. You
don't like where this is going, do you?

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Am I getting broccoli listeners.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
This could possibly be the episode where Rich quits and
the last song Celery or something.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
No, but you did do that to me on an episode.
I brought you something that I've been enjoying eating, and
I feel kind of bad because I'm making you eat
something that I really like that I don't think you like.
But I've been trying to make you try it. Do
you know where I'm going?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
I made you some Greek yogurt with honey and cinnamon.
And what else did I put in? I put in't
usually I put blueberries in it, but I put chocolate
chips in it for you because I thought maybe you
would like it a little more. But I like it
so much. It's just really good. You can put in
a bunch of different things. You could put in peanut
butter or natella.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Or I'll try to keep an open mind. Okay, I
don't like Greek yogurt, but I like all the other
things that you put.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
So if you put the honey and it's non fat
Greek yogurt, and then you just add in whatever you want.
And I make homemade granola. I love my homemade granola,
so I mixed that into Okay, okay, so you're willing
to try it, I am. Okay. Hang in what did
you think you were a good boy and you took
two big bites?

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Well, it wasn't bad. But I feel like the only
reason it wasn't bad is because you put enough stuff
in there to completely overpower the Greek yogurt. So I
really didn't get the like much of a sense of
the Greek yogurt. I just I don't know what I
like regular yogurt, regular yogurt, but yogurt that is like
has sugar and fruit and you'll play, yeah, you'll play,
but Greek yoga.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Back in the day, we used to eat you'll play
yogurt and think we were eating snows.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
But it was it was good.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, really, okay, it was good.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
But like I said, I feel like you might as
well not have had the Greek yogurt in there. I
could have.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
No, there's a ton of Greek yogurt in there.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, but I didn't really taste it.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well, I'm very proud of you. A good job.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I've also added key for to our diet recently, which
is like a drinkable yogurt, and you really like that
You've taken to that.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, it's a little bit sour, but it's sour in
a different way than Greek yogurt.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Is.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I can't really explain it, but it's uh yeah, I
don't mind it.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
We're just trying to get some healthy bacteria into our guts. Well,
enough about that. Well, today I'm going to tell you
the story of Michelle and Jason Young, and it was
recommended to us by Chelsea and Tracy. Before we get
to the case, I just want to ask you, what
do you think the worst anniversary present that you have
given or received?

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Is?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Oh? I we don't.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Always give each other in if we don't.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
And I don't always remember what I've given or received either,
So I'm not going to be very good at this.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think normally we just go out to dinner and celebrate.
But if it's been You've gotten me a couple of
nice pieces of jewelry.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah, I can't think of anything that I've gotten
you that's been awful. That time I got you the
vacuum cleaner.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
That was probably he did not do that. We'll get
to it later. But the gift that Jason gave Michelle
for their third wedding anniversary was not no, not a
good gift. On November third, two thousand and six, Jason
Young called his sister in law, Meredith Fisher, waking up
from a sound sleep. It was highly unusual for him
to call her, but this was the second time in

(06:20):
a week. Jason thirty two, worked in sales but lived
life like a frat boy, going out at night and
tailgating on weekends for North Carolina State wolf Pack games,
which resulted in frequent arguments with his wife and Meredith's sister,
twenty nine year old Michelle Young. Michelle was pregnant with
the couple's second child, a boy they planned to name Rylan.

(06:41):
Jason was thrilled to be having a son to share
his love of the outdoors and sports. Michelle and Jason
were already parents to an adorable two year old daughter, Cassidy.
It was too early for Meredith to take his call.
She worked nights as a restaurant manager and had been
out with friends until early in the morning the previous night.
She rolled over and went act to sleep. She'd deal

(07:01):
with Jason later. She was sure he was calling to
drag her into another of his and Michelle's disagreements. Two
days earlier, Michelle and Jason had a big fight after
he angrily threw the TV remote at her. Michelle was
tired of the constant bickering and had reached her breaking point.
She called Meredith to vent quote, I'm done. I just
can't do this anymore. Jason overheard the heated call. At

(07:25):
November second, around nine pm, on his way out of
town for business. Jason called his sister in law to
tell her that Michelle hadn't told her the whole story.
He was trying to win her over to his side
in a marital dispute. In addition to managing the restaurant,
Meredith had recently graduated from college and was in the
unique position to help her sister and brother in law
with their relationship. Her degree was in psychology, and she

(07:48):
planned to return to school soon for a master's degree
in marriage counseling and social work, so she agreed to
act as a stand in marriage counselor for the couple.
A bad idea for altitude that sounds like idea. The
previous week, they'd had a marathon, four hour session in
which they thought about their sex life. Jason wanted more

(08:09):
sex and Michelle wanted more romance. When Meredith woke up
around noon, she listened to Jason's voicemail. He needed a favor.
He asked her to go to his house and get
some papers off the printer that he didn't want Michelle
to see listening to a coach purse he was planning
to bid on for Michelle for their third anniversary.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
From eBay, that doesn't sound like a bad anniversary gift.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
No, it's not. The gift for your third anniversary is leathers. Okay,
we've never done that, No, really have no. I think
that every year for us it should be Diamond's just kidding.
A thoughtful gift, Meredith thought if he'd follow it through
earlier as she drove to her sister's house, but their
anniversary had been three weeks before on October tenth. As

(08:52):
she drove the fifteen minutes to her sister's house at
five to one zero eight birch Leaf Drive, located in
the outskirts of Raleigh, she grew more irritated with each mile.
Her inconsiderate, self involved brother in law was infringing upon
her time again. When Meredith arrived at the house at
around one fifteen, things instantly seemed off. The front lights

(09:13):
were still on, Michele's Lexus SUV was still at home,
and the back gate was wide open. It was usually
closed so the dog couldn't get out. Michelle should have
been at work. Meredith had forgotten her key to the house,
but was able to wedge the garage door up from
the bottom. As she entered the kitchen from the garage,
she shouted out to Michelle in cassidy, but the house
was eerily silent, except for the whimpering of the family's

(09:35):
black laugh mister Garrison. Meredith's sense of dread grew as
she sprinted up the stairs. She was confused when she
saw tiny red footprints scattered in the carpet and bathroom.
When Meredith entered the primary bedroom, she was shocked and
horrified by what she saw. The room was a wash
and rat the walls, the bed, the carpet, even the ceiling.
Michelle's lifeless body lay face down on the blood soaked carpet.

(09:59):
Just as she reached for the phone, she noticed a
rustling under the comforter on the bed. Cassidy her beautiful kniece.
She lunged for her, baring her hat in her hair,
kissing her and hugging her tightly. Is she called nine
one one, poor little girl. I can't imagine what she witnessed. Oh,
but I'm so glad that she was Okay, Yeah, she
was okay. While Meredith was on the call with nine

(10:21):
one one, Cassidy told her that mommy has booboos everywhere.
The nine one one operator asked Meredith to attempt CPR.
She knew it was too late. Michelle was already cold
and stiff. We're going to play most of the call,
and I know that they can be triggering for some people.
It's about five minutes if you want to fast forward.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
What address are you at, ma'am?

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Bert Lee fifty one? Wait, Persley Broad.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
Can your phone number? Oh my god, ma'am, what's your
phone number? You tell me exactly what happened.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
I think my sister's dead.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Oy, tell me what happened?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Man, I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Oh my god. All right, so almost with me. Please.
What's your name?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Meredith?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Meredith?

Speaker 3 (11:07):
And this is a young address?

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Oh my god, Meredith, listen to me. Please?

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Are you with the patient?

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Now?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
Ye have a son?

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Her daughter?

Speaker 4 (11:15):
How old is the patient?

Speaker 3 (11:17):
And there's blood everywhere?

Speaker 4 (11:18):
She's twenty nine, twenty eight?

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Should I try to move her?

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Listen to me, ma'am. I'm gonna tell you what to
do that you need to calm down so we can
help her. You said, this blood everywhere?

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (11:28):
All right? Is she conscious?

Speaker 3 (11:29):
No? I don't think so. Should I try to help her?

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Listen to me, ma'am, I'm listening. Is she breathing?

Speaker 3 (11:34):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Have you jacked Michelle?

Speaker 3 (11:40):
She's cold?

Speaker 4 (11:42):
Okay? Listen to me. Did you see what happened?

Speaker 3 (11:45):
I don't know, Kathy kmire, sweetie, I'm here with her daughter.
There's like blood footprints all over the house. I do
want to like her daughter's b footprints.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Okay, to listen to me. What's your first name?

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Meredith?

Speaker 4 (12:01):
Did you see what happened?

Speaker 3 (12:03):
I just came here on a fluke. I usually, you know,
don't come here during the day.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
She shouldn't be home, she should be at work, like.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Okay, listen to me. Yes, but did you say can
you tell me why why she looks looks like she's dead?

Speaker 3 (12:17):
I don't know. I don't I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
There's over Did you say she's cold? Okay?

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yes, okay?

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Why did you what happened to mammy? Did you fall?

Speaker 4 (12:40):
What do you think? She's beyond any help?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Honestly, you don't know. All right, I'm normally very good
on we're gonna tell you what to do. Then. Okay,
are you right by her now? I'm keeping her daughter
out of the al so you're not with her.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
I'm right out by the bedroom.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Can you get her daughter security? Can can you carry
the phone into where she's at?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (13:06):
All right? Can you secure her daughter?

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Kathy, sweetie? Can you stay in your room for two seconds? Okay? Okay, okay?
Can you close your door for two second? Zombie? Right back? Okay, okay, okay,
may okay.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yes, okay, you got a cord of s phone?

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, all right, say right there, sweetie, Okay, all right?

Speaker 4 (13:28):
Isn't Is she laying on her back?

Speaker 3 (13:30):
No, she's laying on her stomach.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
She's on her stomach. She's face down, yes, all right?
Can you can you get her on her back? Okay?

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Oh my god, sure, I don't think so. She's so heavy.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
I see if you can get her on her back?
I really think she said pardon. I really think she's
said okay, are you certain?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Hang like Kathy, sweet can you saw in your room?

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Say?

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I'm pretty sure you are. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
I'm okay, we need to make sure, okay, and you
get her on her back for me she's kind.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Of twisted in a way that I can't do that.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
You can't roll her over, not easily. You're going to
try hang on me.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
I'm trying to see if I can get her pulse.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
We got to try to do CPR for we get
her on her back. There so cold, she's cold? Okay,
all right?

Speaker 3 (14:27):
He stiff?

Speaker 4 (14:29):
Okay, then don't try. If she's cold, then, oh my god,
I probably nothing. She can do anything, all right. Try
not to touch anything more than you did. Was anything
out of place or unusual when you came in this place?

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Does not look like what it normally looks like.

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Okay, okay, all right, try not to touch anything else.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Okay, I just moved a pillow.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Just leave you everything exactly where it is then, okay, okay,
do you see anything else? You see any it looks unusual?

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Cassidy, Was anybody here? The dog was freaking out when
I got here. Was anybody here?

Speaker 4 (15:07):
SETI all right, Meredith, all right, I'm gonna get the
sheriff's former to pick up on the line with us.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
They're going to need to talk to you about what
you're seeing, Okay, Okay, I'm gonna brief them on what's happened?
And you just down the line. What's your last name, Meredith?

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sure, her last name is Young.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Are you a relative?

Speaker 3 (15:24):
I'm her only sister.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
Okay, all right, married, stay with me just a minute
a time.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Oh boy, that's harrowing hearing that little girl in the background.
That's so just heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
So I've listened to the nine one one call a
couple of times, but this is the first time I
ever heard of through headphones. So I don't know if
you're just listening like on a different device, not with
earbuds or you know, headphones, and you'd be able to
hear Cassidy, but breaking, Yeah, I mean, what a sweet
little girl. And at one point she says, we need
to get a washcloth so we can clean mommy. And

(15:55):
she's two, I think she's two years and seven months.
And she's just very cocious, very verbal.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
I don't think that's normal for a child that young
to be stringing together full sentences. But she really kind
of got what was happening. A lot of people have
pointed out that Marredith this behavior on the call is
a little suspicious, like she's too calm, But I think
that's a woman who, in my opinion, is in shock. Yeah,
and she's trying to stay calm, precacity. What do you think?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, I thought the same thing. I didn't find her
behavior the way she spoke to be suspicious at all.
I guess to me, it just seemed like she was
freaked out and didn't know how to handle it.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
I think that I would act similarly. I think you
don't know what to say and literally if you're in shock,
Like she was stringing words together, but I don't think
she was really processing, processing and processing what was happening.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
I mean, it's just brutal and so unexpected, and it's
really heartbreaking and said right. Michelle Marie Fisher was born
on February seventeenth, nineteen seventy seven, and say the New
York to Linda and Allan Fisher. Sayville, once named the
friendliest town in America, sits halfway between New York City
and the Hamptons. Michelle's younger sister, Meredith, was born three

(17:10):
years later. Their father, Allan, worked as a car salesman,
while their mother, Linda, was a middle school math teacher
and cheerleading coach, a role that inspired both Michelle and
Meredith to pursue cheerleading. In her senior year of high school,
Michell and her team won the Long Island Cheerleading Championship.
In nineteen ninety six, Michelle performed during the opening ceremonies
at the Atlanta Olympics.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah. Michelle was not only well liked, but also excelled academically.
She became fluent in Russian and French and was a
member of the National Honor Society. The Fisher's marriage had
been in decline for years. They had been in and
out of marriage counseling for thirteen years before finally divorcing
in nineteen ninety five when he married his second wife, June.

(17:53):
Shortly afterward, his relationship with Michelle became strained. Michelle referred
to June as the evils stuff monster. June didn't care
much for Michelle either. She even forbade her from entering
her house, putting Allan in an uncomfortable position. Alan rarely
saw Michelle, and she was deeply hurt by what she
saw as her father choosing his new wife over her. Ironically,

(18:16):
years later, Alan and Jason grew close. Jason was welcomed
into their home while Michelle was not.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
It's kind of crazy.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Michelle attended North Carolina State, where she earned both an
undergraduate and master's degree in accounting. She was a cheerleader
and member of the Alpha Delta High sorority, where she
met her best friend and roommate, Shelley, who later said quote,
Michelle was beautiful, she was intelligent, she was determined. She
was completely Type A, so much that we called her

(18:44):
the camp director. Michelle formed a close bond with three
of her sorority sisters. They named their friend group the
mc Broad's. The group consisted of Michelle, Susan, Lisa, and
another Michelle. After college, they all dispersed to different locations,
but they remained close and got together several times a year.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
We were talking about the term broads the other day
as a term for women. It's it's such a strange.
It's a strange word.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
My grandpa used to call women broads and I never
liked it. I think it's a derogatory term. But when
women own it, you know, it's like, it's okay, then sure,
if you want to call each other. I don't know
why that was the name that they chose, but it's
kind of pertinent to the rest of the story, So
that's why I wanted to mention it. Okay, In the
year two thousand, Michelle passed the CPA exam on her

(19:32):
first try and began working for Deloitte and Touche in
downtown Raleigh. Do you think it's pretty rare to pass
the CPA on your first try.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
I don't know. I would imagine it is. I know
the BAR exam is very difficult to pass, and I
guess the CPA exam is probably also difficult, but I
don't know a lot about that.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I think it's all relative. But I read that the
CPA exam is actually more challenging. Oh wow, I'm sure
they're both super super super challenging.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
And I think the fact that Michelle, you know, did
her undergrad and then she did her masters and then
she you know, she dissive. She did it all, you know,
very young and very quickly, and she was very decisive
in what she wanted to do with her life and
her career. We'll be back after a break.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Jason Lynn Young was born in nineteen seventy four to
Pat and Bob Young in the small mountain town of Brevard,
North Carolina. He was the middle child, with an older sister, Kim,
and a younger sister, Heather, each two years apart. When
Jason was five years old, tragedy struck when Bob died
of cancer. His death deeply affected the family, but brought
them closer together. Pat returned to her job teaching fifth grade,

(20:45):
doing her best to support her three children on a
modest teacher's salary, often struggling to make ends meet as
a single mother. A year later, Pat began dating a
man named Gerald McIntyre, whom she married when Jason was
in college. Jerald worked for the Winchester Corps, one of
the leading manufacturers of guns and AMMO in the US.
After his dad's death, Jason craved a father figure, and

(21:07):
Gerald fit the bill. He taught Jason how to hunt
and fish. He loved being outdoors and playing sports. From
an early age, Jason learned to use humor and practical
jokes to entertain his family and diffuse tense situations, like
the time he lightened the mood by mooning his eighty
year old grandmother. His sister said quote, people were drawn

(21:28):
to him because he was so much fun and you
could never stay mad at him. For very long, because
he'd have you laughing within minutes. During summers, Jason worked
at a Christian camp as a kayak and mountain climbing instructor,
where he met some lifelong friends. His senior class voted
him best all around, and his teachers nominated him for
the Brevard High Hall of Fame. Jason attended North Carolina

(21:50):
State University, where it took him six years to graduate,
partially because he took a year off to hike the
Appalachian Trail with a friend, and partially because he was
not a serious student. He loved attending the wolf Pack
sporting events, but loved tailgating even more. Sometimes he never
even made it into the stadium. He began dating a
woman named Genevieve his junior year. A fellow ARA I.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Was very surprised to find that Jason was a Resident
advisor or RA. That's a job usually that you have
to be very responsible for, and it sounds like Jason
really loved to party. It must have been great to
live on his floor. I would guess if you were
a college freshman.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, yeah, Myra. In our freshman year, Russell, he was
very straight laced and responsible. He is not a fun
party kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
My aris were pretty fun.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Jason and Genevieve got engaged in October nineteen ninety nine,
but she soon broke off the engagement because of his
hard partying ways and bad temper. After graduating in two thousand,
Jason got a job with Nike, working in sales.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
This job at Nike for Jason seemed like the perfect
fit because he loved sports so much, but he changed
jobs a lot. That's pretty common for salespeople to change
joh In my.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Experience, yeah, it's pretty common. I its sales. It's a
very cutthroat thing. You have a number to hit, and
if you don't hit the number, you're probably not gonna
last very long. In February two thousand and one, on
her twenty fourth birthday, Michelle Fisher met Jason Young at
the Poorhouse, a bar in Raleigh. After he spilled her
glass of wine. Michelle and Jason struck up a conversation
that blossomed into romance. I think he spilled her wine

(23:23):
intentionally to strike up a conversation.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
At the time, Jason worked in sales at Black and Decker,
but later moved to pharmaceutical sales. The couple were a
study of opposites. Jason was the life of the party
and loved to spend time with his old college buddies
reliving their glory days. Michelle was more career oriented and
subdued well compared to Jason.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't mean to make it sound like Michelle wasn't fun.
I think she was also very fun, but no one
was as fun as Jason was.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Gotcha. Michelle was a planner who had the next ten
years of her life mapped out. She preferred quiet nights
at home to night's out, but Jason invoked a sense
of spontaneity within her that she liked because it got
her out of her head. Jason and his friend Ryan
Shod bought a town house in Raleigh. Michelle moved in
with them soon after. She and Jason began dating. Two

(24:13):
years into their relationship, Michell discovered that she was pregnant.
This was not part of her tenure plan. She and
Jason hadn't yet broached the idea of marriage. Michelle was
all in, but Jason was harder to read regarding the future.
She was nervous to tell him about the pregnancy, and
she was right to be nervous. Initially, Jason freaked out
and told Michele he wasn't ready for marriage or a baby,

(24:36):
but he slowly warmed to the idea. He proposed to
Michelle with a rubber band, promising to replace it soon
with a diamond ring. When they told Michelle's mother about
their plans to get married, one not to mince words,
Linda Fisher said, quote, if you don't love her, don't
marry her. She'll survive. On August twelfth, two thousand three,
they got married by a magistrate judge at the John

(24:57):
Baker Public Safety Center in Raleigh. Linda and a stranger
off the street were the only witnesses. Not exactly the
wedding that Michelle had been dreaming of since she was
a little girl.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
It's so funny to me that they just pulled a
stranger off the street.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
They rushed the marriage because with the baby on the way,
Michelle needed health insurance immediately. She had recently left her
high pressure job at Deloitte and Touche. A more elaborate
wedding was planned for October tenth. Even though it was
a short timeline, Michelle planned every last detail of her
big day. Meredith was the maid of honor and their dog,
Mister Garrison was ring bearer wearing a doggye tuxedo. I

(25:34):
really like mister Garrison as a name for a dog.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
I don't know where it came from. Was there a
sports legend with the last name Garrison?

Speaker 2 (25:41):
I know, maybe a TV show like maybe I'm thinking
of Missus Garrison from Faxaphone boy.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Missus Garrett.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Oh, is it really yes?

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I can't believe you're so embarrassed to be married.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Michelle got a new job working for Progress Energy as
a tax specialist. She loved the job and planned on
returning after her maternity leave. Meredith, who had just graduated
from college, agreed to move to Raleigh and be the
baby's nanny.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Cassidy Elizabeth Young was born on Mars twenty ninth, two
thousand and four. Michelle loved being a mother and doated
on the baby. Jason was a very hands on dad too.
His sister Heather said, quote it was like a big
kid having a little kid. He had loved making the
baby laugh. Not long after Cassidy was born, Michelle and
Jason purchased life insurance policies for two million dollars for

(26:33):
each of them. That's a lot of insurance.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
That is a lot.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, they were each other's only beneficiary. Jason knew what
it was like to grow up pinching pennies after his
father died, and he wanted his children to be provided
for and the event that he wasn't there. In April
two thousand and five, the Youngs purchased a beautiful three thousand,
three hundred square foot brick colonial home on Birch Leaf
Drive and Raleigh for three hundred and seventy nine thousand dollars.

(27:00):
The house featured four bedrooms, two and a half baths,
and sat on two wooded acres. It looked like a
really beautiful home, especially considered how young they were. Raleigh,
North Carolina, is the state capitol and one of the
fastest growing cities in the country. As part of the
Research Triangle along with Durham and Chapel Hill. It's known
for its strong economy, top tier universities, and booming tech

(27:21):
and health care sectors. As of twenty twenty five, Raleigh's
population is nearly five hundred thousand, and the larger metruro
area is home to about one point sixty six million
people and has a relatively young, well educated population, with
a median age of thirty four and over half of
the adults holding at least a bachelor's degree. The median

(27:41):
household income is about eighty five thousand dollars. The city
blends southern charm with modern energy, offering vibrant neighborhoods, a
thriving downtown, and a growing food and craft beer scene,
But like many urban areas, Rally faces challenges with crime. Overall,
it remains relatively safe compared to cities of similar size.
Those certain types of crime, like autofefts and assaults, have

(28:05):
seen an uptick in recent years. Violent crime is slightly
above the national average, but local officials have been investing
in public safety efforts, including increased patrols and community programs.
With its mix of opportunity, culture, and liveability, Raleigh continues
to attract newcomers from across the country and has often
ranked among the best places to live in the US.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well it sounds lovely, it does?

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Do you want to go visit?

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Michelle and Jason had a rocky relationship and fought often
even around their friends. Their biggest disagreements often centered around
their families. Once they became parents and homeowners, Michelle decided
they should draw up their wills, a ruling decision for
any parent, but for most people it's a hypothetical question.
Michelle was adamant that Meredith should be Cassidy's guardian because

(28:51):
she knew her best after being her nanny for a year,
but Jason was just as firmed that his sister Heather
and her husband Joe should be Cassidy's guardian. In the end,
Jason won the dispute. Remember when our kids were both
over the age of eighteen, I was so grateful that
we were both here to raise both of our kids together.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, I was too.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
In May two thousand and six, the mcbrod's got together
with her husbands in Myrtle Beach. Jason and the other
Michelle Michelle Money initiated a flirtation that would continue into
the fall. When the friend group reunited for a wolf
packed tailgate at the Young's new home, Michelle Money confided
in Jason that she believed her husband Steve was having
an affair with Lisa, another McBride. Oh, so these four

(29:37):
women are really good friends.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
It's just that doesn't sound good.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
No, if you're a reality TV fan, especially if you
are familiar with the Bachelor universe. The name Michelle Money
might mean something to you. It is not the Michelle
Money from The Bachelor.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Oh okay, it's a great name.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah. When I first saw the name, I was so excited.
I was like, oh my god, Michelle Money. I know her,
but it is not this same Sometime in the fall,
while at another tailgate party at Shelley and Ryan's house,
Jason got so drunk keep pete on one of their
extensive rugs. Ryan gently ushered him out of the room
to help him shower and loaned him some clothing, but

(30:14):
Jason ran out of the bathroom and rejoined the party,
sitting on the couch nacd good Michelle was not there.
Jason had been flirting with a friend of Shelley's the
whole night. To prevent any late night visits from Jason,
Ryan slept with him to keep him away.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
From the woman a friend.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
In the spring of two thousand and six, Michelle found
out that she was pregnant again and she was over
the moon, But not long after, she and Jason were
in a car accident and she sadly lost the baby.
Heartbroken but still determined to grow their family Michelle became
pregnant again soon after. When they learned they were expecting
a boy, Jason was thrilled, although he had one strict rule,

(30:53):
no light blue baby clothes would be allowed. He didn't
want anyone mistaking his son for a fan of UNC's
tar heels. Linda had just retired from her job as
a school teacher, and Michelle had plans to convert the
attic into a room for her so she could move
in and help care for the children from Tuesday to Thursday.
Michelle planned to reduce her work week to three days

(31:14):
to spend more time with the children, while Linda planned
to buy a beach house where she'd spend weekends, giving
the whole family a place to enjoy It. Sounds like
a great idea, sounds nice arrangement. Jason, however, was strongly
opposed to the idea. He couldn't stand the thought of
having his mother in law around so often. He found
Linda overbearing, judgmental, and controlling, and he deeply resented the

(31:36):
close bond she shared with Michelle. In fact, Linda was
the center of many of the couple's arguments. Linda found
Jason to be childless and impetuous. She thought his first
priority wasn't his family, but his social life. He went
out most nights, played in two softball leagues in the
summer and two basketball leagues in the winter. Meredith said, quote,

(31:57):
my mom is a strong personality, and they'd butt head.
I mean initially they kind of got along, and quickly
it became when Michelle and him would get into a fight.
Michelle would call my mom and cry and scream and
yell and event to my mom. So as a mom,
she's you know, disappointed and aggravated and frustrated with the
way that her son in law is treating her daughter.

(32:17):
In my opinion, I think that Jason didn't want Linda
around because she kept him accountable, or Michelle was maybe
sometimes like okay, you know, go ahead and go out.
It's all right.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, you can.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Pretty much do what he wanted. On Tuesday, October tenth,
two thousand and six, the Young's third wedding anniversary, Michelle
was home with Cassidy while Jason was out of town
for business. Jason had recently started working for a new
company called chart One, selling medical charting software. He had
left for Orlando on Saturday and then had flown to Denver, so.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
There's a lot of business meetings in Orlando on Saturdays.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
I'm sure probably not very likely. Jason mailed Michelle an
anniversary card from Orlando along with a twenty five dollars
Starbucks gift card.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Okay, this is the anniversary present that I have a
hard time with. Yeah, I think even just getting a
card is fine. Having to mail a card to your
spouse is weird, But the twenty five dollary Starbucks gift card, Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
That's just the only thing worse I can think of
is to give like a put a twenty dollars bill
in the car.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
That would be bad too.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
She was very hurt. Understandably, Her spirits, though, were lifted
because later her mother and grandmother were flying in for
a ten day visit, in part to stay with Cassidy
while she and Jason went to a wedding that weekend
in Winston Salem. They're best friends, Shelley and Ryan were
getting married. The engaged couple were introduced by Michelle and
Jason at an NHL playoff game between the Carolina Hurricanes

(33:44):
versus the Detroit Red Wings in two thousand and two.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I try my very best to weep Michigan into every episode.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I'm not even that's great. Those were the red Wings
glory years.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
They really were. They were dominant for ten years, well
at least.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
When Jason returned home on Thursday, he picked Michelle up
from work and took her to dinner at their favorite restaurant,
Bella Monica. When she got into his suv, excited to
see him after almost six days apart, he was on
the phone and didn't acknowledge her for the entire fifteen
minute drive. Not a good start to their anniversary celebration.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Well, and later his phone records indicated that he had
been on the phone for twenty five minutes and it
wasn't a business call. He was on the phone with
Michelle money Oh.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
After Jason put down his phone, tempers flared when he
told Michelle that he was leaving early with friends to
head to Shelley and Ryan's wedding so they could get
in a round of golf, diverting from Michelle's plan to
drive together. She was hurt. She had been hoping for
a romantic weekend with her husband, but Jason clearly had
his mind set on another wild weekend, being the life

(34:49):
of the party. That night, when they returned home, the
fight escalated. Jason stormed out and went to a bar
with friends. Michelle followed him there and insisted he come home.
They reached an uneasy truce, and Jason agreed to stick
to the original plan and drive with her to Winston
Salem the next day, but the tension lingered and they
argued the entire two hour drive. The rest of the

(35:11):
weekend wasn't much better. Jason acted like he was still
in college, drinking more than anyone else and acting a fool.
Michelle was mostly by herself, feeling sad, lonely, and withdrawn.
But friends say by the end of the wedding they
had made up, and Jason said, quote, I love my wife.
She's crazy, but I love her. But Michelle's friends and
family began worrying about her. Her disintegrating marriage was chipping

(35:34):
away at her normally bubbly personality.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Jason is thirty two at this point, and it seemed
like a lot of his friends were getting married and
having children, and he was married and had children, right,
but he still had this mindset of, you know, partying
and getting drunk, and it seemed like a lot of
people in his life. Started to find it distasteful and
just kind of gross that he always had to be
the drunkest and the lowest.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, you don't want to be that guy.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
I want to be the guy.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
On November second, at six thirty, Shelley Shod rang the
doorbell at her best friend's house. She and her new husband,
Ryan had just returned from their two week Italian honeymoon.
She brought Italian takeout and honeymoon pictures to show Michelle.
Shelley had been worried about Michelle because she had recently
seemed depressed. Later, Shelley said, quote, she was just in

(36:20):
a dark hole, and you know, she kind of turned off.
She briefly saw Jason before she and Michelle sat down
to eat their dinner. Jason declined the invitation to eat
with them, saying he needed to get ready for his trip.
He had planned to stop for a bite to eat
at a cracker barrel in Greensboro and then drive another
three hours to Galax, Virginia. He had a sales call
the next morning at ten a m. He left at

(36:42):
about seven fifteen, gassed up, and then hit the road.
He called his mom and talked for About an hour meanwhile,
Michelle and Shelley gave Cassidy a bath and put her
about in pink, fleeced pajamas before snuggling on the couch
and watching their favorite show, Gray's Anatomy. Just a few
minutes into the episode, Michelle's father, Alan Fisher called. He
let her know that he wouldn't be coming to Raleigh

(37:04):
that weekend. He wasn't feeling well. He had recently been
diagnosed with prostate cancer. Michelle was disappointed. She had been
looking forward to the visit and wanted him to spend
as much time with Cassidy as possible. A tailgate party
was planned for that Saturday, November fourth, and several friends
were coming into town to stay with the youngs, including Alan.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
She and Jason knew that Allen might cancel, and before
Jason left, he was very adamant, Well, let me know
if your dad cancels and it can't help. But think
Alan had come that maybe we'd have a different outcome, okay.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
At ten thirty, Shelley left. She had an eerie feeling
all evening and asked Michelle to walk her to her car.
At eleven, Jason called Michelle to let her know that
he had made it to Hillsville, Virginia and had checked
into a Hampton Inn. She let him know that her
father had called earlier and had canceled his trip that
weekend because he wasn't feeling well, and as you just mentioned,

(37:58):
Jason had been very into if Alan would be coming
into town. They talked for a few minutes before Jason
worked on his sales presentation for the next day. He
worked until midnight and then called it a night. The
next morning, he was half an hour late to the
sales call he had scheduled for ten am. Later, the
person he met with said he seemed fine, maybe a
bit nervous, but it was his first solo sales call

(38:21):
since he had worked with the company. After the appointment,
he called Michelle's work phone. When she didn't answer, he
tried her cell phone and again got her voicemail. Jason
assumed that she was in meetings, and that's when he
called Meredith and asked her to get the papers that
he had left on his home printer about the coach bag.
When she didn't answer, he called his mother and asked
her to keep trying Meredith. He elaborated how important it

(38:44):
was that she get those papers off the printer. At
one thirty seven, he called Meredith again and left her
the following message quote, Hey, it's Jason, just calling you back.
I wanted to get an update, and I also wanted
to let you know. I called my mom and I
gave her that message. My phone has been a time
total suck up. Don't know if you heard the whole thing.
So I told her the deal. I think she's going

(39:05):
to try to call you. I tried to call Michelle,
but not super aggressively because I want to find out
for sure if you've taken those papers or not. Anyway,
I will talk to you again later if you get
a chance, call me bye.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Jason is really worried about these eBay printouts, Yeah, that
have this coach perse on them. Seems like it, doesn't
That seem a little odd to you that he's so
worried about it that his mom is even calling Meredith, like, oh, Meredith,
make sure you get those prints, you know. Yeah, I
think this.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Is so really sort of seems like I guess what
you're getting at is he wanted someone to go to
the house.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
And he really wanted someone to go to the house.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, yeah, Jason made a few more sales calls at
nearby hospitals before driving to his mother and stepfather's home
in the mountain town of Brevard, North Carolina. He was
planning on spending the night with them before driving back
to Raleigh the next morning to get home in time
for the NC State game. When he arrived, his mother
and stepfather, Pat and Gerald looked pale and overwraw with emotion.

(40:01):
They had the impossible task of telling Jason that his
wife and unborn son were dead. He fell to his
knees and sobbed. His mother put him in a recliner
and covered him with a blanket while he wept. Soon
his sister, Heather and her husband Joe arrived. They offered
to drive Jason back to Raleigh. Joe and Heather sat
in the front seat while Jason and Pat sat in
the back, his head cradled in her lap while she

(40:23):
stroked his hair. Meredith called Jason to let him know
that the police were at the house and needed to
talk to him as soon as possible. Two friends of
Jason's called to give him a heads up that the
police were being aggressive and it seemed as if they
already had him pinned as the prime suspect. Ryan secured
an attorney for him, Roger Smith, but he wasn't available
until the following Monday. Ryan cautioned Jason not to speak

(40:46):
to the police without counsel. They drove to Meredith's house.
Linda Fisher had already flown into town. Jason gave them
all hugs and then laid down next to his daughter
and fell asleep. He did not talk with anyone about
what happened. He didn't ask any questions. Meredith, Pat Heather,
and Joe were all taken in for questioning. Not asking
the police any questions, not at all, after your wife

(41:09):
has found dad brutally murdered. Yeah, that's really that's a
big red flag.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I would think I understand the importance of having counsel
with you while you're being questioned, but just answering a
few questions for a few hours, I think you would
want to help with the investigation.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, I would think so too. We'll be back after
a break.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Before we jump back to the case, I feel a
little guilty about giving you a healthy snack.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Wasn't that healthy?

Speaker 1 (41:42):
It was pretty healthy. I mean it's non fat yogurt
with like a teaspoon of honey in it. All right, Well,
I brought you a new Reese's peanut butter cup. It's
called peanut butter pie.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
I saw them yesterday at the store, and I think
they're pretty yummy. I think they're delici.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Actually, all right, I'll give it a try.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Did you like that?

Speaker 2 (42:08):
It was good? Wasn't It's not that different from a
regular pan fired cup.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
I had the crunchy bits in it.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Oh, Okay, I guess, but they.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Were kind of like a toffee taste to it. I
don't know. Again, I don't know why they're called peanut
butter pie.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
I think I preferred the regular peanut.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
But I prefer these. Interesting. We're so different. I don't
know how we stay married.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Two hundred people gathered for Michelle's funeral a week after
her death on November ninth. It was an especially grueling day,
as both Michelle and Rylan were being mourned. Years earlier,
Michelle had written out the words to the song A
Bushel and a Peck and placed it in Jason's wallet
so he'd always be reminded of how much she loved him.
At their funeral, he put it into her hands as

(42:48):
he kneeled in front of her casket, rubbing her belly
and November thirteenth, Linda spoke to the media from the
cemetery where Michelle was buried. She begged the public to
come forward if they had any information to find her
daughter's killer, quote, I loved my Michelle and she is gone.
At this point, everyone is in support of Jason.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah, and it seems like he was out of town,
so I can see that he probably wasn't Even a
lot of people probably didn't even consider that he might
have done it because they were like, oh, he was
out of town, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
This case is very similar to the last case that
we did, the David Hendrick's case. Several days after the funeral,
Jason's sister, Heather and her husband Joe took Cassidy out
of town with them, cutting Meredith and Linda Fisher from her.
But Cassidy had returned to daycare for a few days
before being whisked away. Her teacher spoke about an upsetting

(43:38):
incident while Cassidy was playing with her two dollars.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
While she was hitting the doll she said, Mommy's getting
a spanking for biting and then when she laid the.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Doll down is when she said, Mommy has booboos all over,
Mommy has read stuff all over.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
She was very withdrawn.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
She was always playing with at least one or two
other kids, but she kept more to herself.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
The teacher said that Cassidy normally was a happy, outgoing child,
and was very sad and withdrawn on those few days
that she saw her after Michelle's death. If that doesn't
break your heart, I don't know what does.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Meredith was like a second mother to Cassidy. She'd been
her nanny during the first year of her life and
made sure to see her several times each week. Jason
said he sent her away because he wanted Cassidy away
from the prying eyes of the media. Years later, Pat
Young testified that a friend overheard Meredith and Linda plotting
at the funeral to take Cassidy and run away with her,

(44:38):
and that's why she was taken away. Losing contact with
Cassidy while grieving Michelle and Rylan was devastating to Meredith
and Linda. Jason allowed them a few short supervised visits,
meeting up at a holiday inn in Brevard, but they
knew Michelle would want them to have custody of the
little girl. Linda and Meredith went to visit an attorney
to discuss their rights. They were surprised to learn that

(45:00):
Jason was within his rights to withhold visitation. They had
no legal standing. Jason had all of the power. The
best advice that the attorney could give them was to
stay on Jason's good side and maybe you'll get to
see Cassidy more. During one visit, supervised by Jason's mother, Pat,
she pressured them to publicly support him. Meredith said, quote,

(45:21):
We'd be happy to support Jason publicly once he starts
cooperating with the police. Pat replied, if you won't retract
that statement, If you won't support Jason publicly, I'm afraid
that we can't arrange for any more visits with Cassidy.
And that was that. Pat severed ties with them, and
any contact with Cassidy ended for over a year, until

(45:42):
her fourth birthday in March two thousand and eight. What
Linda and Meredith did next was underhanded, but they were
desperate to see Cassidy so she could see them and
remember how much they loved her. She's still so young,
it's so important in those first years too.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah, have some kind of continuity with people that she
spent time with them.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
So they showed up at her daycare with presents, balloons,
and cupcakes for the whole class. Surprisingly, they were allowed
to see her and spend the afternoon with her in
the classroom. Days before Mother's Day, they were again allowed
to see Cassidy at the daycare. It was spa day
for all of the mothers, and the moms were there
to be pampered by their preschoolers, and no one was

(46:23):
there for Cassidy that day. Had they not been there,
can you imagine how broken hearted she would have been.
So they hired an attorney who was able to negotiate
with Jason for more time with Cassidy, and they even
had an unsupervised weekend in New York with her. But
Jason still held all the cards and refused to enter
into any kind of formal agreement. After Meredith found Michelle

(46:45):
dead and called nine one one, the investigation quickly ensued.
Twenty investigators were assigned to the case that was receiving
a lot of attention from the public and the media.
There were no signs of forced entry or missing items.
Actually that's not right. We'll get to that in a minute.
And the crime scene appeared remarkably clean. The only blood
discovered on the first floor consisted of two small droplets

(47:07):
on the doorknob leading from the kitchen to the garage.
What does that say to you If the blood is
on the door from the kitchen to the garage.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
It says that someone was going out from the kitchen
to the garage.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Well, who uses the door between the kitchen and the
garage and.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Most homes the people that live there.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
There the second floor was a heartbreaking scene. Small bloody
footprints and handprints from Cassidy were all over. One thing
that baffled investigators is that, considering what she'd been through
and the bloody state of the crime scene, Cassidy was
found in Michelle's bed. She was clean and dry, and
half of Michelle's bed had her blood in it, but

(47:46):
Jason's side did not. So Cassidy was only two and
a half, she wasn't wearing a diaper, and she hadn't
soiled herself. I'm not sure how long Cassidy was left alone,
but it was a long time. Shelley left at ten thirty,
so We're not sure what time Michelle.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Was killed, but so Shelley left at ten thirty the
night before, right her body was found and Cassidy was
found at what.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Time Meredith got to the house around one fifteen? Okay,
And so Cassidy, I've heard different differing accounts. But she
was a really smart little girl.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah she was.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
I think she was potty training. I'm not sure if
she was completely potty trained, but for two and a
half year old to be dry all night.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, very unusually fifteen hours. So yeah, it's quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
And also, mister Garrison, the dog hadn't left any bloody
footprints in the house, and how is that possible?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I wonder how it's possible that there weren't bloody footprints
from the perpetrator too, I mean, just in a scene
that's that bloody.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
You were again, it really hard, very similar to the
David Hunters.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yes, there's no how does that happen?

Speaker 1 (48:50):
I'm wondering if mister Garrison was one of those dogs
that was super well trained and wasn't allowed to go upstairs.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Oh maybe, which.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Seems unlikely that there's you know, a murder happy that
the dog you wouldn't try to do yeah, but maybe
he was outside. In the primary bedroom, it looked as
if Michelle had been attacked in her sleep. Her side
of the bed was soaked in blood, and it had
dripped out of the carpet blow and even through the ceiling.
Michelle was lying face down on the floor between the

(49:18):
bed and the closet. Cassidy had placed a baby dell
by her mother's head as if to comfort her. The door.
You're gonna make me cry with yours, you know, it's
really sad. Someone had opened the closet door, but during
the murder, the door had been closed. Because there was
blood spatter on it, the closet looked like it had
been ransacked. Detective Sergeant Richard Spidey later said Michelle's murder

(49:43):
was quote the most severe physical beating I've ever seen
someone encounter. Pretty extreme, a pretty vicious attack that she underwent.
All of the blood found upstairs was Michelle's. The only
clue was a decorative white pillow that had been stepped on,
revealing two blood each. Shoe imprints. The bathrooms were free
from blood evidence other than Cassidy's footprints. There was a

(50:06):
hose outside in the walkway in the rear of the
house that had a slow trickle. Well, no blood was
found there either had someone tried to clean up outside
and left the hose trickling, so it would have washed
away any blood evidence. So I said earlier that nothing
was missing from the house, but there were two drawers
from Michelle's jewelry rocks that were missing, as were her

(50:27):
engagement and wedding ring. The listings from eBay that Jason
had so desperately wanted Meredith to find were still on
the printer. They'd been printed out at seven oh eight pm,
just before Jason left on November two, and the auctions
closed at eight pm. This whole coach perse eBay auction
really has me suspicious. First of all, why would you

(50:50):
need to print out an eBay auction?

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Right, Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense. And
why would you leave? So the auction was at.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Eight the auction ended it, So why.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Wouldn't he just wait, like if he really wanted it,
wouldn't he stick around and see if anybody out bid
him or try to, you know, make sure he got
it well.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Later he said that he was just printing them off
as examples of purses that he liked to show. I
think he was going to show them to Meredith and
get her approval on them, but yeah, it's all just
weak to me. After two weeks, the house was turned
back over to Jason. At that point, his sister Kim
paid for doctor Maurice Godwin to analyze the crime scene.

(51:33):
If you're a fan of true crime podcast, you might
have listened to Up and Vanished and doctor Maurice Godwin
is heavily featured in that show and really smart guy.
But Godwin found a few interesting things, one of Michelle's teeth,
an unidentified hair in the bedroom, and two cigarette butts
from two unidentified males. When the remaining drawers of Michelle's

(51:55):
jewelry box were swabbed for DNA, there was also unknown
DNA there. Jason's two thousand and four white Ford Explorer
and cell phone were seized. The vehicle was clean as
could be, not a speck of blood inside. There were
directions printed from map Quest and Atlas, a hotel receipt,
and a copy of the November third, two thousand and

(52:15):
six edition of The USA Today from the Hampton Inn.
I read a couple of articles from newspapers dot com
that actually is said that blood was found in the suv,
but it must have been something else other than blood
after the analysis came back, because initially they were like blood,
you know, blood found in Jason's car, but it was
not Michelle's blood. The newspaper delivery person was in the

(52:37):
Young's neighborhood sometime between three and four am and recalled
the Young's house being lit up brightly for that time
of the day and also noticed in suv parked in
front of the house and a grave aand parked across
the street.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
The autopsy revealed that Michelle had been brutally attacked and beaten.
She had defensive wounds, scratches and abrasions on her right
hand and bruising on her left hand. She had as
many is thirty separate points of trauma on her head
from a blunt object and thirteen lacerations in a few
spots you could see her skull, and there was evidence
of brain hemorrhage. There was hair in Michelle's hand, but

(53:12):
it was found to be her own. The exact murder
weapon could not be identified, but the crescent shaped lacerations
suggested it was a heavy blunt object with a rounded edge.
There was a gouge on one of the bedroom walls
that matched the shape. Michelle also suffered at least one
devastating blow to the face, which broke her jaw and
knocked out several of her teeth. There was also bruising

(53:34):
on her neck and evidence of imprints from her own
fingernails trying to loosen the strangler's grasp. There was no
evidence of sexual assault. Her time of death was unable
to be determined, but likely between midnight and six am.
Her cause of death was blunt force trauma, and the
manner of death homicide.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
A brutal beating.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Really brutal, and usually when you hear that type of thing,
it's something personal, a random intruder.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Right to make those wounds and lacerations, you have to
be pretty close up, and I think that's usually indicative
of a personal attack.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Investigators headed to the Hampton Inn in Virginia, where Jason
had stayed, one hundred and sixty nine miles from Raleigh,
about a two hour and forty five minute drive, but
it could be done in as short as two hours
and twenty five minutes. Could Jason have checked in driven
back to Raleigh killed Michelle driven back to the Hampton
in and then checked out the following morning. That's what

(54:33):
law enforcement was trying to find out. His room had
been cleaned, but no blood evidence was found. Thanks to
hotel surveillance and his key card, we know that Jason
arrived at the hotel at ten to fifty pm on
November two and opened the door to his room at
ten fifty six. It was the only time he used
the key card during his stay. At midnight, Jason was

(54:54):
seen at the hotel's front desk and again shortly after
at the west side entrance, this time wearing a different
shirt than he had worn it check in a dark
colored sweater with a thin white stripe. This was the
last time that Jason appeared on the hotel's surveillance camera.
All right, so I'm a little bit confused. So he
used his key card to get into his room at
ten fifty six pm, and that was the only time

(55:16):
he used his key card, Yes, But he was seen
at the front desk at midnight. Yes, So that's implying
that he never went like he left his room, and
he never went back after ten fifty six or whenever
he left.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I think that he did go back, but he didn't
let the door latch.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Oh, it's like.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
When he left the room, you know how you can
kind of leave.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
It, Yeah, just prop open just a little bit.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, yeah, and I believe that's what he did, so
there would be him coming and going. Interesting later he
would say that, you know, I didn't want to disturb
anyone by using my key card. But that's really not
very disruptive to hear.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
So he admitted that he did leave the door cracked open,
but he said, I just did it because I didn't
want to disturb anyone. Yes, okay, interesting, but is.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
That disruptive to hear someone open their door with a
key card?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Hotels can be Hotel doors can be loud when they close,
yeah for sure. But yeah, but you can you can
also make sure it doesn't close loudly if you don't
want to disturb anything.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah, but the you know, the noise that your key
card makes is usually you know, that was not disruptive, No.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
For sure. Early the next morning, around four am, a
hotel employee found a small red landscaping rock propping the
side entrance door open and the security camera unplugged. The
maintenance man plugged the camera in and went to the
office to ensure the camera was positioned at the right
angle to capture the door, But by six thirty five am,

(56:38):
someone had repositioned the camera and pointed it at the ceiling.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
So if Jason had left the hotel, driven to Raleigh,
killed Michelle, and durned back to the Hampton in this
does fit the timeline. He'd been gone for about six
and a half hours. Remember he the last time he
was seen was eleven to fifty nine at the front desk.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Okay, Yeah, Jason never checked out of the hotel, but
cell phone records showed that his phone pinged a tower
in Wytheville, Virginia, twenty seven miles from Hillsville, at seven
forty am on November third. He would have had plenty
of time to shower and get ready before hitting the road.
One thing that hung up investigators, however, was that they
couldn't find proof that Jason had refueled he had filled

(57:21):
up his tank on his way out of town on
November two. Investigators were fairly certain that he would have
needed to refuel the twenty two and a half gallon
gas tank of his white Ford Explorer on the way
back to Hillsville sometime between four and six am on
November third. He did fill up later around noon that day.
Investigators went to every gas station along the highway on

(57:43):
Jason's route to see if a gas station employee could
id him. They got lucky when a young woman in
king North Carolina working at a BP station remembered a
man matching Jason's description pulling up to a pump around
five point thirty. When she didn't turn the pump on,
he walked in to the station, cursed at her angrily
and demanded that she turn on the pump, throwing a

(58:05):
twenty dollars bill in her face.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
So, at that time of the day, when you're getting gased,
you need to provide some sort of id uh huh,
And he didn't want.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
To do that.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Okay. If that was Jason, though, I'll just say that
it seems it would seem odd for him to like
curse at someone angrily because then they'd be more likely
to remember him.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah. Absolutely, But a narcissist doesn't think about things like that.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Okay, Yeah, it could be. The man filled his tank
with fifteen dollars of gas and then drove off. He
didn't re enter the store to get his change. Do
we know how how sure this gas station employee was
that it was Jason, Like, looking at the picture, was
it a positive identification or was it more tentative.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I believe she was like, yes, that's him. But we
will get to that in part two.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Okay, And this gas station visit fits the timeline too.
King North Carolina is about fifty minutes from Hillsville, Virginia.
Police soon discovered Michelle's two million dollar life insurance policy
with Jason as the sole beneficiary. Due to a double
indemnity clause, Jason could receive four million dollars at six
point four million adjusted for inflation, that's a lot of money.

(59:13):
That is a lot. But it was likely that the
insurer Prudential would dispute that the policy had been purchased
under fraudulent circumstances. In other words, he had planned to
kill Michelle. So just a few days into the investigation,
the police were feeling good about the case. Although Jason refused,
on the advice of his attorney, to cooperate with their investigation,
he had not been questioned at all, nor had he

(59:36):
asked for any information about the investigation.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Is shocking that he never answered a question.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
That's so far. To me, that is probably the biggest
red flag.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yeah, as the investigation into Jason heated up, law enforcement
focused on his cell phone. In two thousand and six,
around seventy eight percent of US adults owned a cell phone,
and that year marked a turning point for text messaging
in the United States. Roughly two hundred and eighteen billion
text messages were sent in the US, up from one

(01:00:07):
hundred and fifty eight billion the previous year. I'm just
taking you on a little bit of a rabbit hole
because this time in our history is really interesting to me.
When communication really changed. Globally, over one point eight trillion
text messages were sent about five billion per day, with

(01:00:28):
SMS technology having taken off earlier and quicker in Asia
and Europe. The launch of the iPhone in two thousand
and seven accelerated mobile communication trends, setting this stage for
the explosive growth of texting and smartphone use in the
years that followed, and forever making telephone conversations awkward. I

(01:00:50):
always try to remember this in cases. Two thousand and
seven is when the iPhone was invented, and that really
changed a lot because we all had GPS technology on
our phone. And it changed the world of true crime
a lot. Yeah, absolutely, people became easier to track the
Jason's cell phone usage revealed a disturbing truth. He and

(01:01:10):
Michelle Money had been carrying on an affair. There were
more than four hundred text messages between them, fifty alone
on the day of Michelle's murder. He hadn't done anything
else to delete the messages. A two thousand and six
cell phone could delete texts from the user's view, but
the deletion wasn't always permanent, especially if law enforcement had

(01:01:30):
access to the device and used forensic tools before the
data was overwritten. Jason and Michelle Money had spoken on
the phone about fifteen minutes before he allegedly left the
Hampton and to travel back to Raleigh, and then called
her again the next morning at seven forty nine am,
and several more times throughout the day as he drove
to his mother's house after his sales calls. His phone

(01:01:52):
records indicate that between seven forty am and one thirty
seven pm, there were twenty eight calls to his mother. Wow,
I know, I don't know how that's even possible. That's yeah, well,
Signs pointed to Jason as Michelle's killer. The case against
him was built entirely on circumstantial evidence and coincidence. There

(01:02:12):
was no murder weapon, no white witness, and no forensic
evidence directly linking him to the crime, at least not
yet intriguing. Are you ready to put your thinking cap on?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
And asks answers some quse, I always have my thinking
cap on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
So so far, what is the evidence against Jason's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Not much, there's none. I mean, well, there's the gas
station witness. I mean, if she really saw him, that's
obviously very very suspicious. And everything else is very circumstantial.
Life insurance policy girlfriend, yes, you know those type of things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
His contentious relationship with Linda, his hard partying lifestyle. Yeah,
he was seen leaving the hotel. The whole hotel security
camera was unplugged and moved the rock in the side
door of the Hampton Inn. He only used his key
card once.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I would venture. I guess a lot of people put
a rock in the door of the Hampton In though,
Like people go out for a cigarette or something, and
I've seen that happen a lot of times at hotels
I've been out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
We actually said they had never seen that happen. Before.
But the door, and this is important, we're going to
talk about it more in part two. The door was
only locked between eleven PM and six am, Okay, so
most people would be sleeping during that time, So maybe
that's why it hadn't been an issue previously. The other
things I find suspicious are that he used his key
card once he changed his shirt, he didn't cooperate with

(01:03:32):
the police investigation, and he took the map quest directions
off of the printer but left the eBay thing there.
That didn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
All right, But yeah, that's pretty weird. And the fact
that he was so insistent on calling Meredith and telling
her to go over and get the eBay thing, it
just seems a little suspicious as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
And how much do you hate him for leaving sweet
little Cassidy alone?

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Yeah, if he, assuming he did the crime, that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Is, Yeah, that's unforgivable.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Well, the whole thing is unforgivable. Yeah, leaving a two
to two and a half year old at that scene,
I mean, that's just that's that's really really bad, right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
And who else would have had a motive in this situation?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Yeah, nobody would have.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Do you think that this circumstantial evidence is enough to
arrest Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
It doesn't really seem like it to me so far.
I am still baffled that there was no forensic evidence. Obviously,
Jason lived in the house, so his DNA is going
to be there, and you know, his fingerprints are going
to be all over the house. But just with a
beating that brutal and with that much blood, it's just
pretty amazing to me that they didn't find more.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Again, like David Hendrick, because I spent a lot of
time thinking about how they possibly could get away with this,
and I'm wondering, if you know, he worked with a
lot of hospitals, could he have had some sort of
hasmat suit, covered himself up, warren gloves and you know,
had some towel or a trash bag or something there

(01:05:03):
that after he did the murder, he could put, you know,
take it all off, carefully, put it into the trash
band bag and take it with him maybe and dump
it somewhere along the route.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yeah, I mean that would require a lot of planning
and very meticulously well thought out, you know, approach to it.
But yeah, it certainly makes sense that that might have happened.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
In my thinking, The only way that I can eliminate
Jason as a suspect is if he said, oh, well,
I was going to go meet with this other woman.
Mm hmmm, And so far he has not said that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
I do think though the fact that he called her
the other woman a lot. He called her a lot
the next day, right, mm hmm. That seems if you
were with another woman and you killed your wife, I
would think you would be like, I'm not going to
call Michelle money anymore because I'm not. I don't want
to appear suspicious. So it almost seems but.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
It would have appeared suspicious if he didn't call her.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Yeah, I guess if he thought through it that much,
he you know, he would have wanted to act the
same way he would have acted if nothing had if
he hadn't done anything. So I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
But it's two thousand and six also, and I think
today we know that your cell phone is a key
in the investigation, but maybe in two thousand and six
he wasn't as aware of But we don't have his
location like we don't have he must have been smart
enough to leave the cell phone and the Hampton in

(01:06:27):
if he's always put the cart before that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
You seem like he did it. You seem like you've decided.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
I'm still trying really hard to like not reveal that
until the end of episode two.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
I'm still on the fence. So far, I'm leaning toward
you probably did, but I'm anxious to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Yeah, You're gonna hear a lot more in part two. Yeah,
I'm sorry to leave you all in a cliffhanger again.
I don't think you are actually no, I really yeah,
I do feel bad, but you know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Well, it's really interesting. I will definitely come back for
a part two.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
As if Michelle seemed like just a gem of a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Well and to and a half year old daughter, and
the fact that, yeah, the whole thing is very heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
It sounds like Jason Young was on his phone all
the time, having actual at a lot of times with
his month. He really did love his mom, so I
do like that for him. Yeah, but he was on
his phone all the time talking to people, and it
made me feel like I almost never talked to it.
I am not a millennial. That is like a millennial

(01:07:33):
trait like millennials, you know, you see a lot of
memes about it. Millennials get anxious about being you know,
on an actual phone conversation. Yeah, we used to talk
for hours. Yeah, like when we first met, you know,
we were separated. You were here and I was you know,
in Illinois, and the amount that we used to have
to pay for a long distance was criminal, honestly, I
mean hundreds of dollars a month. And you were already

(01:07:57):
in your life and graduated from col and you took
the wordin't of that, but that was tricky. But just
what what the heck did we talk about? We didn't
even have Love Island to talk about? You know, there
is just like hours but not just do like you
know a lot of different I called friends and relatives.
And now I just rarely talk on the phone anymore.
Have we lost the ability to talk in real time?

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
I think maybe we? I think I have Well. I
think it's funny. When I travel for work, we rarely
speak on the phone. We text all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Oh yeah, we never talk in the If you called me,
it'd be like, oh my god, what hospital are you in?
Are you okay? Did you have heart attack? It would
be really weird. I mean you do once in a
great while, like if you're if you're driving. Sometimes we'll talk.
You know, it's really funny. I wonder if other couples
do this. But a lot of time you're in your
office and I'll call you from the bedroom. I'll be like, oh, hey,

(01:08:49):
how much time do you get for manslaughter in the
state of California or whatever? It is, like, it'll be
something that I don't want to type.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
That's true. We probably talk more on the phone when
I'm traveling.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
I think we talk, But yeah, just in general, I
remember there were a few times that I literally talked
to people on the phone, like all night long. Yeah,
which it's baffling to me. I just don't have as
much to say anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Yes, yeah, it is. Really things have changed very dramatically
when it comes to communication.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Well, on the iPhone, the iPhone, and you had a
BlackBerry before you had an iPhone, and you really loved
your BlackBerry. When did you have that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Loved because I could play brick Breaker on it and
I was really really good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
I knew you couldn't say brick Baker without saying that
you were globally ranked or whatever. What was the other
game that you were like, globally rigked Doodles?

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
That was after the iPhone.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
But yeah, yeah, I do miss playing those insipid games.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Like I played doodle Jump on my flight home.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Did you really?

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I haven't played it in ages and ages school is
still up there. I was a little stressed out because
I knew we were going to be flying through like
thunderstorms and stuff like it really anxious and suddenly, but
I'm just I need something to distract me. And I
still got it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
You're such a humble man. So you still had doodle
Jump on your phone?

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah, it's still on that, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Because I used to play a ton of games like
Candy Crush. I played a little bit, but there was
some game with a panda. There's the Fruits, the fruit
Ninja game. There was just a ton of them and
we loved them and we played them with their kids,
and are they still out there? And I just took
them off my phone.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
I'm just assume. So I was thinking about Angry Birds
the other day, because yeah, that was a fun one.
Everybody went through a big Angry Birds phase. It was
such a fun.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
No, let's bring it back. Let's have like a group
We'll have a group game and we'll start out Angry
Birds community. But maybe it was just old apps. Yeah,
what was the one? The bird one that like everyone
was obsessed with, super hard flatty Bird and then they
took it out of the store. We have one of
our bunch.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Of get out of the store. I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
I don't know if there was a controversy or yeah there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Was something if, I don't remember, but I was never
that into that one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
What was really hard? One of our iPads somewhere has
it on it. But anyway, good times, good time. Well,
thank you again to Tracy and Chelsea for recommending this episode.
If you would like to listen to the conclusion of
this episode right now, please join us on Patreon dot
com slash Lovemrykill for five dollars a month. You get

(01:11:28):
early add free access and a monthly bonus episode. Thank
you so much for your support. The only reason that
we continue to make this podcast is because you continue
to listen and support us. Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe.
Find us on social media, or send us an email
at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com. And if you're listening
on Spotify, leave us a comment because we'd love to

(01:11:50):
read your comments.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
We do, and thanks to everyone who's given us a
shout out on reddit like, especially in the True Crime
podcast subreddit. We always appreciate seeing our name mentioned there
when people are looking for recommendations.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill
your husband.

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Michelle and Jason Young - Part 1

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Michelle and Jason Young - Part 1