Michelle and Jason Young - Part 2 - Love Marry Kill

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've
learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to Love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, How
are you doing good? How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I know you're not doing good, but you're a trooper
and you're here anyway.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I am doing all right. I'm looking forward to hearing
part two of this story.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
And by that you mean the recap of Love Island
episode ten to fifteen.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Oh, yes, I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's why you came back.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I can't believe what's going on on that island. But anyway,
a lot of times when we record, we forget to
talk about things that we mean to talk about. Oh
every time, every darn episode, we haven't talked about the
Karen Reid verdict. And I know by now it's ancient
history because the news cycle moves so fast today. Yeah,
but what did you think of the verdict? We spent

(01:06):
a lot of time going over that case.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
I'm not surprised by the verdict at all. She was
found not guilty of the most serious counts, right, I
think she was found guilty of drunk driving under the influence.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, but not even like driving under the influence and
leaving the scene of a crime, just driving under the influence,
which she was definitely under the influence.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
So I wasn't surprised by the verdict, but I was
probably I was a little disappointed. I know, this case
is so divisive and people have really strong opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
People are going to come after you for that.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
I almost got in a fight with my friend Dave
when I was in New York this week because he
is he strongly believes that she is innocent, and.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
There's when a lot of our friends believe that. And
that's okay. We say this every time. You can disagree
with us. We don't mind at all if you give
us an intelligent argument. Yeah. I agree with the jury's verdict.
Actually I am not. Her defense team was impeccable. They
did such a good job. They really established reasonable doubts.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there was a lot of I
don't disagree with the verdict either. I think there was
a lot of There's definitely a lot of corruption in
the police force.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
There were I think that's what came down. It comes
down to for a lot of people. Anyone who lives
in Massachusetts has really been through a lot and they've
seen the corruption in the state police and a lot
of local police departments. So I don't fault anyone for that.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
But I still think she did it.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you don't think she did it maliciously, right, it
was a yeah. I mean, I'm not going to rehash
my opinion because we did three episodes on it, but
it makes me sad that he's been lost in all
of this.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah. John O'Keeffe. I mean, he was the victim in
this and there's no justice for him. And I know
a lot of people on the conspiracy theorist side think
that they're going to go after the police now, but
they're not. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, they did some shady things and the investigation was botched,
and a lot of the Alberts and they just they
acted very suspicious by not letting the police into their
home and they got rid of their cell phones. Anyway,
enough about that. Yeah, I'm happy to put Karen read
to bed.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I am never talked on again.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
There's been another exciting development in a case that we
covered a while back the Suzanne More a few cases.
Oh yeah, Barry was arrested.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
If there's one guy that I wanted to go to
prison and pay for his crime, it's him.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Absolutely, There's no doubt in my mind that he killed
his wife.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
So you think the trial will be a slam dunk
for him once he goes on trial.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I think so because her remains, her skeletal remains were
found and there was evidence of a chemical that I
think I read that he was the only person in
the state that has.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
This chemicals tranquilize her something that.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, and it was found in her bones. So I
think that's pretty good evidence.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
And also, the Brian Koberger trial is starting in August?
Is it really early August? They keep trying to push
it back, but so far the judge has said, Nope,
we're doing this.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
That's a big one.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I did bring you a snack.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Okay, I'm not really looking forward to it, but because
we went to the grocery store.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, after our amazing pickleball game last night, we went
to the grocery.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I need coconut.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Coconut? What else should I buy?

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Though?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I don't remember two lemons.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh, yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
I made you lemon bliss balls.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Okay, so thisul I'm going to keep an open mind.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
The chef made them on blow deck and everyone was like,
oh my god, these are amazing. So I had to
look up the recipe. It's he it's a healthier treat.
It's cashews and coconut and a little bit of vanilla
vanilla protein powder, lemon juice, lemon zest.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Open mind.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Okay, we'll be right back. What did you think does.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
My expression look blissful?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I mean you always look happy, But no, you didn't.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Lavest so much? Didn't?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Oh I really, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
The flavor was all right. I didn't like the text here.
It was like a moist cliff bar or something. It
was like very I don't know. Didn't didn't love it.
And I didn't like the coconut like I can.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh sorry. I tried to make it as small as
I could. I think they're delicious. I love them. So
if you like lemon and coconut and you're looking for
something that's sweet with a little lush sugar, I think
it's a great little treat. But Rich doesn't think so.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Okay, I don't have to like everyone.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Our son didn't love them either. No, I need to
make a clarification. The last episode, I gave you a
Reese's Peanut butter Pie miniature cup. Yes, and I had
put some regular ones in the bag because I was
going to make you do a taste test, right, but
I accdentally gave you one of the original ones and
you were like a taste just like the and you
were right. But now that you have tasted the peanut

(05:55):
butter pie, did you like those?

Speaker 3 (05:56):
I liked it, I don't think. I still don't think
I liked it as much as regular ones. It did
have more like a toffee flavor, which was interesting.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think they're really good. I think you should give
them a try if you see them, Can you give
us a summary from the first part of Michelle and Jason.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Young I sure ken. On November third, two thousand and six,
twenty nine year old Michelle Young was brutally murdered in
her home in Raleigh, North Carolina. At the time, her husband,
Jason was reportedly out of town on business about one
hundred and fifty miles away. Michelle had been pregnant with
their second child, a boy they planned to name Rylan.
Their two year old daughter, Cassidy, was found unharmed in

(06:32):
her parents' bed by Michelle's sister, Meredith Fisher, who had
come by the house to retrieve some eBay printouts. Jason
had said he wanted to surprise Michelle with a coach purse,
though their anniversary had passed weeks earlier. Cassidy was clean
and dry, despite leaving bloody handprints and footprints throughout the
upstairs of the house. As the investigation unfolded, several red

(06:54):
flags began to emerge. Jason refused to be interviewed by
the police. He had stayed at a Hampton in the
night of the murder, but only used his room key once,
despite appearing on surveillance footage more than once. A rock
had been found propping open a side entrance to the hotel,
and the surveillance camera had been tampered with, first unplugged,

(07:14):
then later redirected to face the ceiling. A gas station
attendant idd him after a terse confrontation with Jason at
around five thirty am, about an hour from the Hampton inn.
He also cut off contact between Cassidy and her grandmother
and aunt, and investigators would later uncover evidence of an
extramarital affair with a woman named Michelle Money. He and

(07:36):
Michelle's marriage had been tenuous from the start.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Is there anything you want to add to that?

Speaker 3 (07:41):
I don't think so. Think it was a pretty good summary.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Okay. Remember when Jason appeared on the Hampton Inn surveillance
camera at midnight, I do he was wearing a different
shirt than the one that he'd worn while checking in.
When police searched his vehicle and luggage for this shirt,
they couldn't find it, but they did find condoms in
his suitcase. And why would you need condoms when your
wife is pregnant? But we do know that he was

(08:06):
seeing another woman, so that's probably why law enforcement weren't
happy that Michelle's murder case was growing cold. Detective Sergeant
Richard Spivey decided to re examine all of the evidence
in the case. He zeroed in on the crime scene
photos and saw something that was not only out of place,
but very disturbing. In Cassidy's room, a bottle of Tylenol

(08:26):
extra strength adult rapid Blast was on a shelf with
an eye dropper laying next to it. Also on the
shelf was a bottle of pan cough PD cough syrup,
a strong adult cough syrup that contains dihydrocodeine, which can
induce sleepiness and dizziness. Another lesser known side effect is

(08:47):
infrequent urination, which might explain how Cassidy remained dry for
so long.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Remember Cassidy was I think exactly two years and seven
months yeh or thirty one months. Remember, Jason had worked
for a pharmaceutical company in sales and had worked with
this drug, and he was provided with over one thousand samples.
He thoroughly knew the side effects of the drug. The
Sheriff's office had preserved these items since November two thousand six,

(09:16):
including the medicine dropper. Sergeant Spivey had them sent off
to the SBI crime Lab for analysis. The SBI found
a match of Cassidy's DNA on the medicine dropper. It
also confirmed that dihydrocodine was present in the chamber of
the dropper. Suddenly, the toddler's shockingly clean appearance in the
aftermath of the murder wasn't quite so enigmatic. The notion

(09:40):
that she'd been cleaned up before four a m and
placed under the covers on Jason's side of the bed
and remained asleep in precisely that spot for more than
nine hours. Didn't seem so implausible. Cassidy had apparently been drugged,
and who was more knowledgeable about the effect of these
medications than Jason Young.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
That's super interesting and it makes total sense. I I
have to wonder though, why they they collected those things,
they were holding them in evidence, but they never thought
to test them the first time around. That seems a
little surprising.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Well, so many times in these cases when they go cold,
you know, there's some detective that goes back and looks
at all the crime scene photos and they're able to
find a new clue. Yeah, and shows you how important
that those crime scene photos are. But this theory doesn't
explain the bloody of footprints unless you know she woke
up and Cassidy some she was potty trained. It's hard

(10:29):
to believe that she was potty trained at night, but
she could have, you know, woken up, gone to use
the bathroom and that's when she made the bloody of
footprints and then crawled back into bed because you know,
she was so exhausted from these drugs. Yeah, and it's
hard to believe that she would wake up and go
to the bathroom. But like I said, one of the
side effects of the medication was lack of urination.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Well, and so she talked to her teacher about or
she was playing with dolls and said something about the
fight or something that mommy got booboos and things like that.
So it makes you wonder.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
If she was she walked in on them rugs after Like, yeah,
if she walked in, maybe she made the bloody footprints
at that point, and then maybe he took her, gave
her the drug and then put her to bed after that.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Right's heart breaking to think what Cassidy could have seen.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Oh, totally heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Investigators were having a hard time identifying the footprints found
on the white throat pillow in the primary bedroom. The
size ten footprint was prominent, the other shoe was barely visible,
but eventually their patients paid off when the lighter imprint
was enhanced and identified as a Hush Puppy's shoe Size twelve.
Slip on a loyalty card from DSW Shoes was found

(11:41):
during the search of the young's house, which allowed detectives
to see all of the shoes they had purchased from
the store. It was confirmed that the previous July, Jason
had purchased four pairs of shoes, including a pair of Hushpuppies, loafers,
and even better news, the surveillance footage from the Hampton
End showed him wearing what appeared to be Hush Puppy
low Fer Boy. A search warrant was issued to search

(12:03):
for the shoes at Pat Young's home and a storage unit,
but no shoes were found. Jason would later say that
Michelle donated the.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Shoes even though he was seen wearing them.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Well, it wasn't positive that they were the same shoes,
but they looked very similar. The other shoeprint was from
a size ten airfoot athletic shoe sold by Family Dollar.
I think these shoes run about ten dollars. Jason does
not seem like the kind of guy who would buy
a ten dollars pair of shoes at Family Dollar. So
in my hat, I was like, could Jason have purchased

(12:36):
these shoes as a decoy?

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Just so I understand? There were two shoe prints found.
They were both found on the throat and throw pillow,
and they were from two different shoes.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
They were from two different shoes.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Okay, that's really weird.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
And the hushpuppy's shoe was they couldn't hardly see it
at all until they sent it off and they had
it in hand somehow. But the other shoe was I
think they were the left and the right shoe on
this pillow and they were very visible.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
You could say that that's evidence that there was another
person possibly at the crime scene.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
But even if that were true, that doesn't mean Jason
couldn't have been one of those people exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
So, Jason complied with a judge's order to provide samples
of his hair, DNA, blood, saliva, fingerprints, and a body check.
He was free of bruises, scratches, et cetera. And we
know that Michelle fought back pretty hard because she had
bruising and scratches on her hands. On November sixteenth, the
Wake County Detectives took a field trip to Florida to
visit Michelle money. She came clean right away and admitted

(13:36):
that she and Jason had been having an affair the
weekend that he told his wife that he was going
to Orlando for business. He'd actually been with Michelle Money.
He'd sent the anniversary card with the wonderful Starbucks gift
card inside after he'd had sex with his wife's good friend.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
What a guy.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
There was also an email trail between Michelle Money and Jason.
On October twenty eighth. He wrote quote, I feel lucky
just to I owe you much less love you, but
I do. I don't know how all this happened, but
I know how it will end up two broken hearts,
but I don't care. I know there is pain in
my future, but you are so worth it, even if
it's only for a blink in time. Michelle responded, quote,

(14:15):
missing you so much. I won't even get into my
husband's lack of romance, affection, et cetera. I wish things
were different for all of us. Miss you tons. This
is only a few months into their relationship and they're
already exchanging I love you, but it seems like they
knew that they had no future together, which I guess
is a good thing.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Maybe I read the note a little bit differently, but
I thought, based on the fact that he said it'll
end up with two broken hearts, that seemed to indicate
to me that they were both planning on breaking up
with their spouses, and I guess I.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Took it as they were going their hearts were going
to be.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Broken, oh, because they couldn't be together. Yes, you could
read it that way.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Too, but you're right, I could see it your way too,
as far as I know, though, they had no plans
of ending their marriages at that point. In August two
thousand and eight, almost two years after Michelle's death, frustrated
by the pace of getting justice for her, Linda and
Meredith considered filing a wrongful death suit against Jason at
his suggestion of a prosecutor. There was only a two

(15:13):
year window to file a wrongful death claim under the
statute of Limitations roles, and they were up against this
deadline because Jason still refused to cooperate with police. The
civil lawsuit would require him to finally answer questions under oath.
If you remember, he has never answered any questions.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Right Assistant Wake County DA Howard Cummings reached out to
Paul and Jack, Michael's brothers with a personal injury practice
and asked them if they'd consider representing Linda and Meredith
in their civil suit.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Prosecutors only handle criminal cases, so he couldn't take this
one on. Cummings told them that he'd hand over any
files pertaining to the case as long as they shared
any new evidence they discovered. The Michael's brothers were torn
on fighting this risky case and due part to them
having no experience in such a lawsuit, but in the
end they accepted the challenge. Linda, the complaintant, sought damages

(16:07):
for the pain and suffering Michelle endured during the fatal beating,
as well as the loss to Cassidy of her mother's
expected lifetime income and companionship. She also requested punitive damages
from Jason and asked the court to declare him Michelle's
slayer under the slayer statute, barring him from receiving any
life insurance benefits. Linda and the attorneys knew it was

(16:28):
unlikely that she'd never be paid any money, but it
was about getting justice for Michelle. In the day of
the hearing, Jason nor his attorneys showed up because Jason
wasn't present. Judge Donald Stevens reviewed the case and signed
a default judgment stating that Jason Lynn Young had wilfully
and unlawfully killed his wife, Michelle Marie Fisher Young meeting

(16:51):
the definition of a slayer under the applicable statute. The
court effectively declared Jason to be Michelle's murderer, barring him
from receiving any life insurance proceeds. Instead, the funds would
go to their daughter, Cassidy.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I'm surprised that Jason didn't show up and mount any
defense to this civil case.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, even though it was in civil court, he still
declared a murderer, so it's definitely a win.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
I mean, the judge reviewed all of the evidence before
making that claim, and obviously it doesn't hold up in Well,
I think it.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Was more that it was a default judgment because he
didn't present any defense. Okay, so Hattie showed up and
presented a defense, it could have turned out differently, but
it seemed as if he didn't want to be on
the witness stand answering any question.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
So that was just his way of avoiding answering any.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, and I think he was like, well, this is
a civil judgment.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
There's you know, it's not going to get any money
out of me anyway.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
So yeah, at this point, I think he had lost
his job, any job that he had gotten since he'd
lost that job too, so I think he was living
with his mom and didn't have a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
December two thousand and eight, Linda and Meredith filed a
lawsuit seeking sole custody of Cassidy. Then, just a month later,
to their surprise and relief, Jason agreed to gradually transfer
permanent custody of Cassidy to meredithow Cassidy would live with
her aunt and Raleigh, where she would begin kindergarten. Jason
requested visitation with her every other weekend, and four weeks

(18:13):
in the summer, they would meet half way between Raleigh
and Brevard at a Crackerwarel restaurant to exchange Cassidy. Meredith
and Linda never thought this was possible, but they assumed
it was just because Jason wanted discourage having to answer
questions about Michelle under oath and avoid undergoing a psychological evaluation.
Jason and Cassidy had lived in Brevard with his mother

(18:35):
and stepfather since Michelle's murder. He'd lost his job and
many of his friends. In March two thousand and nine,
at the hearing to awards civil suit damages, Jason was
again a no show and as were his attorneys. Linda
and Meredith both testified to their heartbreak as well as Cassidy's.
Linda said quote, my heart's been ripped out of me,
and the void in Cassidy's life would never be filled.

(18:57):
The judge awarded fifteen point six million dollar to Michelle's family,
but everyone knew they'd never see a dime of that money.
We'll be back after a break.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Investigators delved into Jason's computer and found a letter he
wrote to his ex fiancee Genevieve in September two thousand
and six.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
It was a lengthy letter, but we've abridged it to
the most pertinent parts.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
I outwardly moved on from you, but I'm not sure
my heart and soul did. I now have a family
and a daughter I love deeply, but I don't feel complete.
Sometimes I imagine our paths crossing again in another life
in heaven. That's how I cope when you're strongly on
my mind. The biggest mistake I made was asking you
to marry me. When I did, I wish we could

(19:46):
have matured together more. Timing, not just love, is everything,
and that's what I have to live with now. I
remember moments with you vividly. You made me feel true, passionate,
timeless love. I will always love you, even though I
know I will never be together. I know this is
inappropriate for a married man to say to a married woman,
but I love you, I always have and I always will.

(20:09):
I don't expect a response. I just needed to say it.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
And she never responded because her email address had changed
and she never received or.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
She never actually got it.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Wow, she did hear about the letter later.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Oh boy. Some of Jason's Google searches were very revealing,
including anatomy of a knockout head trauma, knockout head trauma,
blackout head blow, knockout divorce, and right posterior parietal occipital region.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I believe he later tried to explain this away as
he was one of the first people on this at
the scene of an accident and he'd seen some injuries,
and he's like, oh, I was just curious. That seems
like not a very good excuse.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
No. No.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
They also found some terse emails written from Jason to
Michelle July twelfth, two thousand and six. I just got
home and the goddamn power is out. I called progress
energy and a crew is already out. Cass pissed herself
all over the floor. It's hot as hell inside, and
I can't entertain her enough without TV to finish the
goddamn yard. I am taking beer and her to the pool.

(21:12):
I am in a mood that thanks our trip to
myrtlecy mild pray, the beer kicks in. I could kill
you for not letting me finish the yard this morning.
Oh my goodness, that is a turny email.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
People love to hear you swear, and it does make
me chuckle a little bit, not like I feel bad
horribly for Michelle, just to hear you angry is I know.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
That's really it's.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Kind of funny because you normally don't yell.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
And another email about the upcoming holidays. I do not
want your mom here a week before Christmas, and I
don't want her here through New Year's Eve. If she
wants to come at Christmas and stay for two or
three nights, then fine. I am not spending my entire
holiday season with my mother in law at my house.
I'm not wavering on this, and I don't think I'm
being extreme. That was I was a little more mild,

(21:56):
But yeah, still.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I'm I kind of don't blame him.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
No, I don't either.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I think it's nice to have your family there, but
I just don't think your kids really want you there
for a whole week.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Another email contained an argument over an upcoming tailgate that
Jason wanted to take Cassidy to. I have always felt
I am extremely cognizant of my daughter's health in every sense,
even more so than you in most cases. I do
not want to hear anything else on the subject, or
we will have another disagreement. You have trouble lying in
the bed you make for yourself. You are the first

(22:29):
person to gripe, complain, and be very bitter about tailgates.
When is the last time you had fun at a
tailgate and didn't complain about me, my actions, your friends
their actions, not drinking, the heat, the weather, or any
other thing you can Yet, ironically, you want to put
yourself through all these negative things that you typically bitch about.
I just don't get you. You can't have it both ways.

(22:52):
Hopefully you will lighten up at some point in your life,
but if not, don't try to bring me with you,
for I have no desire for that type of experience,
which Wow.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
I'm sorry, there's one more. I know this is a lot,
but I feel like it's important to illustrate Jason's attitude
and some of the problems that they had in their marriage.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
And this email was about Jason's anniversary gift. He wrote,
in reality, I hand wrote you a card, dropped it
in the mail on ten to seven, as it is postmarked.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Andy anniversary is on the tenth, and got.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
You more than twenty five dollars worth of Starbucks cards.
Have you gone back to your mom and told her
all that, yet all I've heard about is how I
don't care because I didn't even get a card or
anything for you. Heck, I actually did more than you.
You wrote love Michelle, and I actually had a nice
handwritten note in reality. Does that bother me?

Speaker 4 (23:40):
No?

Speaker 3 (23:41):
But I have to point out as a defense mechanism
since you came on so strong to me in front
of your mom. Moral of the story, don't get so
emotional over spilled milk and make sure your mom and
whoever else gets a picture of the good as well
as the bad. Oh boy, this does not sound like
a very good relationship.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Remember any time that you have sent me an angry email?

Speaker 3 (24:02):
No, I never send you emails period, but right, well, this.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Was back at two thousand and six. Maybe we did
a little bit.

Speaker 6 (24:10):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, there were also emails though that did show a loving,
joking relationship. Okay, one more thing about Jason's laptop. Remember
he said that he was working until midnight on the
presentation for the next day. When his computer was analyzed,
there was no evidence that he had been working on
it at all that night, other than I think he

(24:30):
checked some sports scores.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Okay. Three years after Michelle's murder, a grand jury convened
in December two thousand and nine to weigh the evidence
against Jason Young. So convincing was the first witness, Sergeant
Detective Spivey, the grand jury four person, stopped the proceeding
and said that he and his fellow jurors didn't need
to hear any more evidence. They were ready to indict
Jason Young for first degree murder. In North Carolina in

(24:55):
two thousand and six, killing a pregnant woman did not
result in a double murder charge, as it did in
some states. After a two thousand and five effort to
change the law failed to pass. Later in twenty eleven,
the unborn victims of Violence Act, or Ethan's Law, became
effective December first, twenty eleven. It defines an unborn child
as a member of the species Homo sapiens at any

(25:18):
stage of development. On December fourteenth, Jason was arrested in
Brevard and driven back four and a half hours to
Raleigh to face the charges. In Wake County, Sheriff Donnie
Harrison was overjoyed by Jason's arrest. He had kept a
picture of Michelle on his desk for three years. Quote,
her mother gave it to me, and it was a
reminder every day that we had a case to solve,

(25:40):
and we've been working diligently to solve it. It makes
me feel good today to look down at the picture
and say we've gotten one part of that puzzle.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
That must have felt very good for everyone involved. But
there is finally arrest three years later.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
I don't think I said this, but he was in jail.
He wasn't able to post the bond whatever it was.
I think it was several million dollars. The trial began
eighteen months after Jason's arrest. Jason had spent his savings
on legal fees and was now considered indigen by Wake
County and was given a public defender since the county
didn't have official public defenders. They paid Brian Collins, a

(26:18):
hard hitting, experienced trial lawyer, to represent Jason. He has
been compared to Matt Locke. Mike Klinkosum would serve as
his co counsel. Becky Holt was the lead prosecutor. It
took a week to see if the seven women and
five men on the jury. The trial began on June seventh,
twenty eleventh, four and a half years after Michelle's murder.

(26:40):
Judge Donald Stevens presided over the trial, a twenty seven
year veteran of the bench. He was the same judge
who had presided over this civil trial. Oh, we're going
to go through the trial. It was a long trial.
We're just going to try to share the major highlights.
During opening statements, the defense attempted to explain Jason's appears
on the Hampton and surveillance footage around midnight on the

(27:03):
night of Michelle's murder. They said that he had simply
left his hotel room to retrieve his laptop, charging court
and smoke a cigar before returning to bad but that
explanation raised eyebrows. Friends said Jason didn't smoke, He actually
hated it, and it seemed odd that his charger wouldn't
already be in his laptop bag. Right, there's tot of
you during this, because you're very methodical about how you

(27:25):
pack for a business trip.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah, I mean not everybody is, so I can sort
of see that. But the smoking thing is weirdly why
would he use that as an excuse if he hated
smoking cigars? Some people that don't smoke or hate smoking,
they really do like smoking cigars.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Defense was able to point to some email for where
he had purchased some cigars or cigar accessories or something.
The defense didn't shy away from painting Jason in an
unflattering light. They called him a bad husband and an
immature jerk. They acknowledged his affair, but the did he
was not a killer. According to them, there was no

(28:03):
physical evidence tying Jason to Michelle's murder. And did you
know that in North Carolina, attorneys have to remain seated
while questioning witnesses. Really, yeah, they can walk around during
opening and closing arguments, but when they're doing an examination
of a witness, they have to sit at their table interesting.
The prosecution's first witness was Meredith Fischer. She acknowledged that

(28:24):
Michelle and Jason often argued and admitted that her sister
gave as good as she got. During the defense's cross examination,
there was an attempt to implicate Meredith in Michelle's murder.
After finishing her workshift, she met friends at the Carolina Alehouse,
where she stayed until it closed at two AM, and
consumed about five drinks. Surveillan's footage later captured her at

(28:47):
a gas station between the three thirty nine and four AM,
where she purchased and then ate a pretzel before heading home.
She said that she'd been drinking and she just wanted
to eat something that would soak up some of the alcohol.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Before she's having a pretzel after a night of drinking.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
There was a gap in her timeline though, between two
and three thirty am, where her whereabouts were unknown.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
What possible motive would she have had for killing.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Herself well, people said that she was jealous of her sister,
and Meredith was a little overweighted, and people said that
she'd always been jealous of Michelle because she was prettier
and more popular. Which is ridiculous. There was also an
issue because Meredith washed the pajamas that Cassidy was wearing.
But in her defense, like little Cassidy had, she'd just

(29:32):
been through hell. Yeah, I mean literal hell. And when
Meredith got her the crime scene, she had to talk
to the police, and her mom wasn't yet there, so
I think she had to like hold Cassidy to the
whole time. Poor Cassidy must have been starving, and Meredith
had lost her keys, which was also like people said,
that's I don't know how that was suspicious, but people
thought it was weird that she didn't know where her

(29:53):
keys were. I would totally lose my keys in that situation.
And they were lost to such an extent that I
think an officer had to drive Cassidy and Meredith to
Target so she could purchase some new clothes for her
and get her some food. Here's the poor baby, and
she must have been just exhausted and hungry, and she
changed her into some clean, some new clothes, and she

(30:15):
put the pajamas probably in a bag or something, and
then she took them home and washed them and not
realizing that they were evidence. But people said, oh, she
washed them on purpose, but there was evidence of blood
on the pajamas. The medical examiner testified next. His testimony
was emotional and gruesome. He described a brutal death for
Michelle and estimated that she was hit with a blunt
forest object in her head as many as thirty times.

(30:38):
An important witness for the prosecution was the gas station
attendant who believed that she'd seen Jason. The security cameras
were not functioning at the time of the incident, which
is so frustrating, so her testimony was crucial. She was
sure that the angry customer had been Jason, but the
defense brought up the description that she gave him. She
wasn't able to recall an exam hair color, or height,

(31:01):
and she said that he was a little taller than her.
I think she was about five feet and Jason is
over six feet one inches.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
I wouldn't call that a little taller.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Right, And she said like he has a little bit
of hair, and you know he has a full head
of hair. So people were like, well, we're gonna get
to it later. But she had I think some brain
trauma when she was a child that might have affected
her ability to recall things. Michelle Money testified about the
brief affair that she'd had with Jason, saying she'd been

(31:31):
consumed with guilt after Michelle's death, but she continued to
talk and text with Jason and the weeks that followed
because he was the only one who understood her pain.
Really don't like Michelle Money. After Michelle's murder, she said
that the other mcbrod's traveled to Raleigh for the funeral.
She said that she finally ended the relationship with Jason
after an agent with the SBI called her an idiot

(31:53):
and warned her, you need to never speak to him again.
You're going to get yourself in trouble if you do.
They threatened her with being accessory to the murder if
she didn't subvertize all that Wow. Next up was Jason's
ex fiance, Genevieve. She testified that they'd broken up due
to his excessive drinking, immaturity, and violence. Once in an
angry fervor, he punched out the windshield of her car.

(32:16):
Here she is recounting a disturbing fight they had that
became physical.

Speaker 7 (32:20):
Said something to the fact of, well, if I'm gonna
make such a terrible husband and give me back my
ring and it went on for probably about twenty minutes.
He cut my finger getting the ring off. Once I
told my parents what he'd done to me, there was
no way they would ever let me follow through on
the wedding. So I told them and then molded over

(32:47):
for a couple of days, and then I sent Jason
an email and called off the wedding. It just blew
my mind that he didn't care, no remorse whatsoever.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
That music was really getting me.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Something about that music that was important testimony because it
showed that Jason had a history of violence. Another woman,
an old friend of Jason's from summer camp, testified that
a couple of weeks before Michelle's murder, she came for
a visit. Michelle was away for the weekend with friends.
She had sex with Jason on the couch while Cassidy slept,
so Jason cheated on his girlfriend and his wife. The

(33:21):
guy so this friend of Jason's was also married. She
testified that he took her finger, her ring finger, and
like sucked her wedding ring off and pretended to swallow it,
and she she was mad at him, and he said, well,
I guess you're gonna have to stay until it passes
who And then later he was telling his wife the

(33:45):
story and she laughed and thought it was funny, and
he said it was actually just in my cheek. But
the woman did stay until he gave her the ring back.
This woman was heartbroken. She felt so bad she openly
wept while she testified. Jennifer Remy and SBI agent testified
that there were about fifty hairs found around Michelle's body,

(34:06):
including one in her hand that contained the root, but
none of these hairs were a match for Jason. I
know some of them were Michelle's, though another agent testified
that there was no DNA found under Michelle's fingernails. This
really surprised.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Remembright had said that I think that he could have
been wearing some sort of like hazmat suit and gloves.
To me, that explains why, because we know she fought
back because there was bruising on her hands.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Could be.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
The red lava rock found outside of the Hampton Inn
that had been used to prop out open the door
contained weak evidence of Jason's DNA, but shouldn't be considered
a confirmation. The medicine dropper in Cassidy's broom did contain
her DNA, but not Michelle or Jason's or Meredith's. So
it's kind of weird that there's a few unknown fingerprints,
especially on that bottle of medicine.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
There were fingerprints on the bottle of medicine there match Jason.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
There was at least one. Then I wonder if you're
stalking shells, like, you know, could that just be a
fingerprint from an employee?

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Do you remember there was two cigarette butts found at
the scene, not by the police, but by doctor Maurice Godwin,
who Jason's family had hired. I didn't remember that, okay, So,
and they were unidentifiable too, they were, but they were
from two different males. I'm not accusing anyone of planting them,
but it does seem odd that the police wouldn't have
found them. They were either inside the garage or right

(35:28):
outside of the garage. And it seems odd too that
anyone would be, you know, leaving a crime scene and
smoking a cigarette.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Well that's what when we did a case a while
ago where the shooter was out in the yard and
there was a cigarette. But I said the same thing, like,
who's going to smoke a cigarette while they're, you know,
doing that.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Defense attorney Klinkosum was able to get a witness from
the DNA testing lab to concede during cross examination the
one out of every seventy nine Caucasian males possessed the
same DNA markers found in the swabbing of the landscaping rock.
That witness a lab rated that if a stadium were
filled with two hundred people, quote, you could have two
or more individuals that could have the same partial profile

(36:08):
that was obtained. Some of the one hundred and fifty
one latent fingerprints collected were from friends and family members
who hadn't been in the young's home for more than
six months, including Alan Fisher, Michelle's dad. A shoe print
expert testified that they had gone to great lengths to
identify the prince left on the white pillow and Michelle's paperwork.

(36:29):
I don't think I've mentioned this yet, but Michelle had
been working in bed and there was a bunch of
paperwork that had fallen under the floor, and there were
fingerprints found on that. The size twelve prince belonged to
a discontinued Hushpuppies shoe called the orbital. The factory in
China made a pair of the shoes for comparison. The
defense got the expert to admit it was possibly a

(36:50):
different shoe and the size could have been anywhere between
an eleven and a thirteen. There were also two prints
from the Franklin shoes, both a right and a left
shoe side. It is hard to make sense of those
shoe prins.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
It is a.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Friend of Jason's. Jason Fitzgerald testified about Shelley and Ryan's
wedding weekend quote. He was upset about the argument that
they were having. He was up to his neck with
a relationship and was not willing to deal with it anymore.
But he also testified that they'd made up and had
a fun time together at the reception. Detective Sergeant Spivey

(37:24):
was the thirty seventh and final witness for the prosecution.
He was asked by the defense if they'd ever considered
Meredith as a suspect or found any of her statements contradictory.
He agreed that some of her statements were contradictory, but
they were likely the result of being overwhelmed by emotion
and shock. The prosecution took about two weeks to present

(37:44):
their case. The defense called several of Jason's family members
and friends to the stand, all of whom spoke to
his character and described him as a devoted father and
a good man. One of his friends from college was
asked how Jason acted when he'd been drinking. He said, quote,
I mean, it was pretty common knowledge that Jason, you know,
was known to get naked, and I guess to do

(38:05):
Jennet's Talia tricks, I guess is the way i'd put it.
You know, I'd say he was always the life of
the party, and he would whatever it took, you know,
to get the attention and to make sure people were laughing.
Jenneitalia tricks and they called I think they called them
dick tricks, and he was just known to like get naked.
I don't I don't know any more details than that,
because I don't.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
I don't think I want to know any more details
of that. Wow.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Several people testify that Michelle and Jason fought in front
of them, and their fights could get nasty. Many of
the friends believed that they wouldn't have ended up getting
married if Michelle hadn't gotten pregnant with Cassidy. Jason's friend
Josh Dalton said that Jason had talked about divorce but
was afraid Michelle would move back to New York and
he'd never see cassidy. The defense only called nine witnesses

(38:49):
and wrapped up on June twenty first. We'll be back
after a break.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
In the morning of June twenty second, as the courtroom
was expecting to hear closing arguments, a surprise witness was
called Jason Young.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I was shocked that he testified. I am a little
shocked too, a most defendants. Almost never in a murdered
trial does the defendant testimy well.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
And he avoided testifying in the civil trial by not
showing up, So it seems like he didn't really want
to be under oath.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
But yeah, exactly, And this would be the first time
since Michelle's death that we would hear him talk about
his version of the events at all.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
The prosecutors hadn't prepared for this possibility, and they were panicked.
His testimony wasn't surprising. He loved his wife and daughter.
He hadn't been a perfect husband, but he wanted to
stay married to Michelle.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
We're going to play a clip of his testimony. It's
about four and a half minutes if you want to
fast forward. But it was the only clip that I
could find of him, and I think it's pretty telling.

Speaker 6 (39:52):
Did there come a tom when he learned that she
was pregnant?

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Ells about that.

Speaker 6 (39:57):
How you found that out? What was your reaction?

Speaker 4 (39:59):
Was at the town home at a Rtway that Ryan
and I had purchased, and I remember I was upstairs
in the bedroom and Michelle went there was the We
were in the master bedroom and there's a bathroom attached
to that, and I remember Michelle coming out and announcing

(40:19):
that she was pregnant.

Speaker 6 (40:20):
What would your reaction to that?

Speaker 4 (40:22):
We were both very shocked. We were both eye opening, like,
whoa it was? You know, it was a surprise. It
wasn't it was It wasn't planned, but it was a surprise,
but it was a good surprise.

Speaker 8 (40:36):
Do you remember telling your mom about that? I do,
I do, Rob that conversation. Was that in the way
it happened?

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Yes, Yes it was. I think Michelle was nervous about
that and she was like, you really just want to
tell your mom like that? And Mike, yeah, I don't.
I don't think Michelle knew at that point how close
like I was like, Mom, well, this will be a
good thing. Mom will be so excited to be a grandmama, Like,
this will be really neat thing for her. So I

(41:06):
actually was pretty excited to tell my mom.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
Don't believe she kept five that that she told you.
Did you love her married?

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (41:13):
It did you?

Speaker 4 (41:13):
Yes, sir, Yes, sir, it.

Speaker 6 (41:14):
Didn't so.

Speaker 8 (41:20):
Thinking about it in that respect, did her getting pregnant
cause you to get married?

Speaker 4 (41:27):
No, it didn't cause us to get married. It certainly
expedited it.

Speaker 6 (41:33):
The marriage. It sped up.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Absolutely, It made it happened. It made it happen sooner.
I think it was eventually going to happen. On my
schedule would probably been stretched out a little more. On
her schedule, it'd probably been a little sooner. So it
expedited both of those schedules.

Speaker 6 (41:53):
When she became pregnant again, how'd you feel about that?

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Was it ecstatic?

Speaker 6 (42:00):
Just how long? Well not how long? But did it
come a time when you learned that that child was
going to be a boy?

Speaker 4 (42:09):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (42:09):
Tell us about that. How did you find that out?
And what was your reaction?

Speaker 4 (42:12):
Well, we went, we went together a lot of the
appointments that there's many the appointments that I could go
on with her. I would go on and this was
this was the big one, obviously, the one finding out
the sex of the baby. If if you can, it
all depends on if the the baby will cooperate. But
I remember going on and then doing the procedure to

(42:34):
show and you're watching the screen and I just remember
the baby's moving in there, very active. But I remember
they the technician the baby turned and you could see
kind of the legs and you could kind of see
a little.

Speaker 6 (42:55):
Yes. And how'd that make you think? It was?

Speaker 4 (42:59):
I think both of us were were thrilled. It couldn't
be more perfect. And what I mean by that, certainly
is that we would have been disappointed if it was
a girl, because Cassidy, there's nothing that that's better than that.
But I think we both wanted to experience having a
girl and a boy, and it was it could have

(43:20):
been more storybook, and that's right up Michelle's alley way
she would have wanted.

Speaker 8 (43:27):
How did you find out that she was pregnant?

Speaker 4 (43:33):
It was it was typical Michelle fashion. She had she'd
planned it out and uh, I remember, Cassidy, Uh, you know,
in the Toddland stage Toddland into the den and and
she's she had a shirt on that Michelle Ball that said,

(43:54):
uh that said I'm going to be a big sister
and uh h, I don't even think just being the
non pay attention person. I don't even think it hit
me at first. I remember just seeing more castdy and
kind of thinking favorite castiy and Michelle was looking at
me kind of like excited, wasn't I remember looking again

(44:18):
and in uh, I was thrilled.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
It's been driving me nuts. Who Jason's voice reminds me
of reminds me of Matt Saras and QB One for
the Dylan Panthers, my favorite show, Friday Night Lights.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
It does real Yeah, his voice does something like that,
and it comes across as very sincere.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
And I thought he did a I thought he kind
of nailed his testimony. Not that I believed him, but
I thought he seemed very earnest and sincere. Yeah, I
believe I have written here in your script coming up.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
But at the same time, he's carrying on an affair
with a friend of his wife.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Oh yeah, he's a horrible person.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
But yeah, but he comes across sounding like he was
very excited about the baby, all that good thing. He
said that giving up custody of Cassidy was the hardest
decision he had ever made, but he didn't have the
money to fight. His attorney asked, how has your life
been impacted by the death of your wife? Jason answered quote,
I've lost everything. I've lost family, friends, jobs, I've lost everything.

(45:18):
Jason held the courtroom's attention for over three hours as
his attorney walked him through Michelle's murder and its aftermath.
He came across as an earnest and broken man. When
the court returned from lunch, the prosecution had their turn
at Jason, but prosecutor Becky Holt seemed ill prepared. She
only questioned Jason for fifty two minutes. Her cross examination

(45:39):
lacked the intensity and emotion one might expect. She didn't
drill him on all of the circumstantial evidence and the timeline.
Jason was calm, polite, unflappable. Really, his attorneys breathed a
sigh of relief. Their client had held up under pressure,
and it appeared the state had failed to meet its
burden of proof.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
I so badly for the prosecute here. They had no
idea he was going to testify, and the fact that
she only went at him for fifty three minutes is shocking.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
Really, I feel bad for them, but I don't know,
they should be prepared for that. I know it's very
unlikely that the defendant is going to testify, but I
feel like, just after listening to this story up until
this point, I could have asked him, you know, some
hard hitting questions just based on that.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Only you would have been there. I know, but remember
Jason had he had access to all the files, all
of the discovery, and he'd been in jail for eighteen months.
He's a smart guy. Anything else to do, but you know,
really prepare what he was going to say and how
he would compel the jury.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
During their closing arguments, the defense focused on the seven
areas that they felt proved that Jason could not have
killed Michelle. I know you're dying to hear these. Michelle
had fought back, yet Jason had no marks on his body.
The blood, it would have been impossible for Jason to
not have trained and spread blood into his vehicle, clothing,
or hotel. I wish there was some experiment that we

(47:05):
could do because I think that I could. I could
do it. Yeah, I don't want to kill anyone, but
you know, I don't. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong,
but I feel like you could be really careful and
not transfer blood.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Also, there were no transfer fibers from the crime scene
to the Hampton Inn, like there weren't any carpet fibers
like either place, Like there weren't any carpet fibers that
hit the home from the hotel, and vice versa. The
cigarette butts had unknown DNA on them. There were unknown
fingerprints in the house on the medicine cap. I'm not
sure if we talked about this, but the jewelry box

(47:40):
also had unidentified DNA on it his phone calls. Jason
was too busy talking on the phone to have committed
the murders. There were fingerprints on their surveillance camera at
the Hampton Inn, and they weren't Jason's. There was also
like a water pipe right above and there was a
like a handprint in the dust that wasn't Jason's, but

(48:01):
that was likely the custodians handprint because you know, the
camera had been moved back for some reason. They were
not their DNA and fingerprints were not taken.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
The defense then went over Jason's gas purchases and the
mileage that he drove. They made it seem impossible that
Jason could have driven back to Raleigh. This part was
really confusing to me because they had the mileage and
they had, you know, a whole PowerPoint presentation about it,
but they were just trying to say they had his
purchases from you know, the night before and the next morning,

(48:34):
and they made it seem like the mileage was impossible
to have gotten him, you know, back to his home
and back to the Hampton Inn. So I don't know
about that.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Yeah, but there, but the prosecution was saying that he
bought gas with cash at a certain point after the
murder and before he got right.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
And we don't know if he could have bought gas
somewhere else and only put a few dollars in. So
I think that wasn't the most compelling evidence. Yeah, the
prosecution had their work set out for them to eliminate
the reasonable doubt set by the defense. Prosecutor Becky Holt
told the jury quote, he didn't want to be pinned down,
but rather wanted to live life as a single person

(49:12):
and you know that because of his actions. He has
taken the stand and told you that he loved his
wife and that he was working on his marriage. Everything
that you have heard is contrary to that. How are
you working on your marriage when you're contacting old girlfriends
and telling them that they're the love of your life
and you're having sex the week before in the same house,
when you're involved in an affair where you talked more

(49:33):
than four hundred times in a month. Jason killed Michelle
because he concluded it would be worse to be divorced
from Michelle than to be married. She also focused on
Jason's missing Hush Puppies shoes and his strange behavior at
the hotel. The jury began to deliberate on Thursday, June
twenty third, twenty eleven, at three pm. They worked for

(49:54):
two hours before calling you a day. On Friday, after lunch,
the jury asked for several pictures from surveillance cameras, including
the cracker barrel were Jason eight when he checked into
the hotel, and pictures of Cassidy's third birthday party. At
the party, he's seen to be wearing this sweater with
a light stripe, which the defense said was the same
sweater that he'd been seen on the surveillance camera at

(50:17):
the Hampton Inn after he'd changed clothes. Do you know
what I'm talking about? Vaguely, his that shirt disappeared. They
didn't know where it went. But then they were like, oh,
but it was. He was wearing it at Cassidy's third
birthday party months later, right exactly, But it wasn't the
same sweater. One had a zipper and the other one
just looked like a crew Nex sweater. They asked to

(50:37):
review the transcript of Merediths call to nine one one,
DNA lab records, the printouts from eBay and map quest,
and Jason September two thousand and six email to his
ex fiance. So the jury was really on it seems
like it. They did not reach a verdict on Friday.
On Monday, a note was passed to the judge. He
asked the four attorneys to join him in his chambers

(50:58):
to read them the note. Quote. Over the weekend, I
have looked up the responsibilities of the jury four person
one that stuck out was to act as a mediator
and manager of this group of jurors. Unfortunately, at this
time we are at an impasse and appear to be
immovably hung. We sit currently at a six to six

(51:18):
ratio and do not appear to be able to make
any further movement. Where do we go from here? Six
to six to six? Like that is a hung jury,
I'll say, Becky Hold asked the judge to deliver the
Allen charge? Do you remember what the Allen charges?

Speaker 4 (51:35):
Not?

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Really?

Speaker 2 (51:36):
The Allen charge, also known as the Dynamite charge, is
a special instruction a judge gives to a dead block jury,
urging them to continue deliberating and to try to reach
a unanimous verdict. It encourages jurors and the minority to
reconsider their positions without abandoning their honest beliefs, in the
interest of reaching a consensus.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
In this case, there are no jurors in the minority
exactly Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Judge Stevens called the jury back to the courtroom and
urged them to make one final effort to reach a
unanimous decision. He asked them to come together as reasonable
men and women and try to reconcile their differences if
they could, without compromising their deeply held beliefs. However, he
was clear no juror should abandon their honest convictions about

(52:21):
the way or impact of the evidence just to align
with others or simply reach a verdict. He reminded them
that they were in a unique position, having hurt all
of the evidence firsthand. No one else was more qualified
than them to make the decision. If they couldn't agree,
the case would be retried from the beginning with a
new jury. I always feel for the juries in this position.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
A lot of pressure.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Yeah, because you've listened to this testimony for weeks, maybe
you get to know the victim, and I think it's really.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Well and you know, if you can't come up with
a verdict, they're going to have to do it all
over again. It's a huge amount of time, money, resources,
And yeah, there's got to be a ton of pressure
to come to a consensus.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
But I can imagine too, Like, I'm a pretty stubborn person,
and I don't think I would It would be hard
to persuade me the other way if I am leaning,
you know, if I'm leaning towards guilty, I don't think
you would be able to convince me that he was innocent.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
The jury returned to the deliberation room when the judge
checked in with them before lunch. After several hours had passed,
they remained deadlocked six to six. Judge Stevens told the jurors,
if they were unanimous that they were unable to reach
a verdict, he declare a mistrial. They talked for a
few more minutes before reporting back to the judge that
they would keep trying. The four persons said, quote, the

(53:38):
jury feels the seriousness of the consequences here. We owe
it to the court that we have a little bit
more work to do. But at four of am, the
jury sent the judge the following note, Your honor, we
have made some progress, but the current eight not guilty
for a guilty situation that we find ourselves in leads
us to believe that we will make no furs their

(54:00):
headway in this matter. We find ourselves deadlocked, and this
time the decisions of the parties that feel the defendant
is guilty or not guilty will not changed. They swayed
a couple of deadlocked yeah, the jury was unanimous in
their decision. Judge Stevens did declare a mistrial, release the jury,
and set a hearing for July twentieth to decide Jason's fate,

(54:21):
Jason was sent back to jail. So I feel like
a public defender in this case did a really good
job defending him.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Yeah, it seems like it, But like you mentioned earlier,
they weren't actually a public defender, right, They were just
a lawyer, a defense lawyer that the court paid. They're
paid like a yeah, they're.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Just a percentage of their fee.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
July twentieth, Wake County Assistant District Attorney Howard Cummings announced
to Judge Stevens the state intended to retry Jason Young
and that they could be ready by October. The judge
set a trial date of October tenth, Michelle and Jason's
eighth wedding anniversary. The judge set a bound of nine
hundred thousand dollars. Pat Young was able to piece together

(55:01):
the bond, and Jason was free a week later. This
surprised me because if you remember, Jason didn't have money
for the custody dispute, right, But I may, I guess
it wasn't his mom's job to pay for that, but yeah, still,
Jason didn't see Cassidy until October sixteenth, three months later.
After the initial visit. They spent one hour together every Sunday,

(55:22):
supervised until the trial.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
It took twelve days to see a jury for Jason
Young's second trial in late January twenty twelve, as it
was challenging to find people who hadn't already formed an opinion.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
It's a really long time to select a jury.

Speaker 8 (55:36):
It is.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
The final jury consisted of eight women and four men.
After failing to secure a conviction the first time, the
prosecution was under intense pressure, but they felt more prepared.
They had interviewed jurors from the previous trial to better
understand where their case had fallen short, and they were
ready in case Jason chose to testify again. The defense
faced its own pressure. If Jason took the stand, they

(56:00):
knew the prosecution would be ready with a much tougher
cross examination. This time, prosecutor Becky Holt came out more aggressive.
Her opening statement was twice as long and her questioning
more detailed and strategic. Meredith Fisher remained on the stand
for three full days. The woman who had previously identified
Jason at a gas station, though largely discredited during the

(56:22):
first trial, once again proved to be an unreliable witness
for the prosecution. She struggled to recall details clearly, saying, quote,
I have been through a lot of stuff myself, so
my brain I can't remember half of what went on,
and that I can sometimes because I've been through a
lot with myself since six Yeah, that doesn't seem like
the best idea to put her on the stand together.

(56:45):
She also disclosed that a serious head injury she suffered
as a toddler had impacted her growth and development. Had
her testimony been more consistent, it could have significantly strengthened
the state's case.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
That's so tough. It really is the whole thing open.
Everyone was so excited and optimistic when they found her
in the first place, but then they just tore her
apart in the witness stand.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
And so disappointing that the security cameras at the gas
station weren't working that night too. The prosecution also replayed
Jason's full three hour testimony from the first trial, but
this time they systematically broke it down and challenged key points.
Digging deeper, prosecutors introduced new witnesses, friends of Michelle, who
helped paint a fuller picture of her relationship with Jason.

(57:31):
One testified that when Michelle first told Jason she was pregnant,
he encouraged her to have an abortion. Another recalled Michelle's
excitement after a previous miscarriage when she learned that she
was pregnant again. To share the news, she dressed Cassidy
in a big Sister shirt. But the next day, when
the friend asked how Jason had reacted, Michelle admitted that

(57:52):
she hadn't gotten the response that she had hoped for.
So that's a direct contradiction to what he testified. Another
witness who shed light on the growing darkness inside the
house on Birch Leaf Lane was a counselor who worked
at Michelle's office. She met with Michelle only once on
October twenty seventh, but she recalled the great emotional turmoil
that Michelle was experiencing.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
So this was just a week before her murder.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
Okay, her relationship with Jason was deeply troubled. She was
desperate to get her life back on track before their
baby came. She had asked Jason to attend marriage counseling,
but he refused, telling her that she was the cause
of all their problems. Michelle told the counselor she needed
to figure out how to quote fix herself and make
things better. She also revealed that she had been sexually

(58:39):
assaulted in college, and that recently Jason's sexual behavior had
become so aggressive it was triggering her past trauma. The
emotional toll was so great that she and Jason had
stopped speaking directly, resorting instead to email Michelle's schedule to
follow up appointment. But she was dead less than a
week later.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
That was really sad testimony. Yeah, they really telling of
the state of their relationship too.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Yeah, exactly. In the first trial, the prosecution was not
allowed to bring up the wrongful death lawsuit that Linda
and Meredith Fisher had won years earlier. The judge allowed
it to be brought up during the second trial. The
defense called most of the same witnesses except for one
glaring omission, Jason Young. Why am I not surprised that
he did not take the stand? On February twenty ninth,

(59:25):
the defense rested. Over three weeks, sixty five witnesses testified.
During closing arguments, the defense highlighted the unknown fingerprints on
Michelle's jewelry box in the closet and on the eBay printouts.
The prosecution argued that Jason had been abusing Michelle since
they had met in one form or another, and although
they couldn't explain every fingerprint or footprint in the Young's house,

(59:48):
Jason was the only person who would want Michelle dad.
The jury began their deliberations the next day, Friday, March second,
twenty twelve. They left for the weekend without reaching a verdict.
Later we would find out that they stood at seven
guilty and five undecided. When they returned Monday, they asked
to see several photos, including those from the crime scene,

(01:00:09):
Jason's ford explorer, his shoes, and a diagram of the
Hampton Inn. Near the end of the second day, just
as all of the attorneys were worried the jury would
come back as hung, they sent the judge a note
saying that they had reached a verdict.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
All right, look at me, what do you think is
going to happen?

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Well, I'm going to say guilty only because we originally
said that they were. I can't remember what the numbers,
but was like eight guilty, four undecided or something like that.
As the verdict was read, Jason sat emotionless and still
guilty of first degree murder. The judge, who after the
civil suit and two trials, knew Jason Young very well,
spoke his mind while addressing Jason after the verdict was read. Quote,

(01:00:50):
the court's assessment of the evidence in this case is
actually pretty simple. This is a domestic violence homicide case.
He described seeing the quote fingerprints of domestic violence throughout
the relationship, which he believed had deteriorated from disagreements to
irreconcilable differences, with Jason having made it clear that he

(01:01:10):
was done with the marriage. The judge said it was
a relationship where a traumatic outcome wasn't just possible, it
was almost inevitable.

Speaker 6 (01:01:18):
Quote.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
If Michelle had called the police with missing teeth, a
broken nose, and black eyes, no one who knew this couple,
including their closest friends, would have been surprised. So why
would anyone be surprised when Michelle Young was found beaten
to death. The pattern is the same. This case is
like so many other domestic violence cases that have played
out in this courtroom over the years. He noted that

(01:01:41):
Jason had the presence of mind to remove Michelle's wedding
and engagement rings, perhaps in the judge's words quote, because
he believed she no longer deserved to wear them. He
had the motive, he had the opportunity, and the circumstances
of the crime scene point directly to him. I have
no quarrel with this jury's verdict.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
I think the judge at this point really hated Jason
him to pay for his crime.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Yeah. He then sentenced Jason Young to life in prison
without the possibility of parole. The jury four person later
told the media that their verdict came down to a
few things, quote, the lack of the shirt, the lack
of the shoes, the fact that he didn't talk. This
is a man who is on trial for his life
and didn't even say I am not guilty. She also

(01:02:25):
mentioned Cassidy being cleaned up, which pointed to Jason as well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
But we're not done yet. There was an appeal, of course,
that began immediately. Jason's attorney wrote in their fifty two
page brief that it was inappropriate for Judge Stevens to
allow any mention from this civil trial or the judgment
against Jason. In fact, it's against North Carolina law to
mention a civil ruling in a criminal court.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
I kind of thought that at the time that you
said that because especially because he didn't show up for
the civil trial, and it was kind of like a
almost a ruling.

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
On April first, twenty fourteen, the Court of Appeals issued
a unanimous decision overturning the verdict in the second trial
and ordering a third. Jason remained in prison at the
Alexander Correctional Institution in the mountains of Taylorsville, North Carolina,
but in May twenty fifteen, the state's seventh Supreme Court

(01:03:21):
justices reviewed the Appellate Court's ruling. Their decision wasn't announced
until August twenty fifteen. They overturned the Appellate Court's ruling
Jason would not be given a third trial. In twenty seventeen,
Jason again tried to appeal the sentence, citing ineffective council
in his earlier trials, but his motion was struck down,

(01:03:43):
so he remains in jail. The Prudential Insurance Company paid
out four point two five million dollars. Seventy five percent
of the money was put in a trust for Cassidy,
and the other twenty five percent went towards attorney fees.
Alan Fisher, Michelle's dad, once close to Jason and came
to believe he killed his daughter. He died of prostate
cancer in July two thousand and eight. Do you think

(01:04:06):
I can get through this next bit?

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Probably not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Michelle Fisher Young was just twenty nine years old when
her life was stolen far too soon. She was a
devoted mother of a loved daughter and sister, and a
woman full of promise. Friends and family describe her as driven, intelligent,
and full of warmth, someone who balanced her career with
deep love for her family. Cassidy was just two years
old at the time of her murder. It's heartbreaking to

(01:04:29):
think how many holidays, birthdays, and all the quiet moments
in between that Michelle had missed, as missed. No matter
how deeply a child is loved by others, there's something
irreplaceable about a mother's love. It's bottomless. The bond begins
before birth and never truly ends. Our hearts break for Cassidy.
To Michelle and Ryland, we speak your names, we tell
your story, and we remember the life that you lived

(01:04:51):
and the love that you gave. Rest in peace, Michelle
and Rylan. I have some questions for you. Okay, did
the jury get it right? Were the jurors influenced by
emotion and rather than evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
That's a good question. I mean, I have mixed feelings
about this case. Yeah, I really do think he did it,
but I a lot like some of the other cases
we've done, I'm not sure if there was enough evidence.
It seemed like there was contradictory evidence in some ways
as well, So I don't know. I can't say the
jury didn't get it right because I didn't sit through
all that testimony and listen to all the evidence. But

(01:05:24):
I do wonder if there would have been enough for
me to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
I think there's a lot of circumstantial evidence, and in
my opinion, there was enough evidence to get to a
guilty version.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Yeah, what was the most compelling evidence in your opinion?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
That's a fair question. His behavior at the hotel just
doesn't make sense, you know. He the key card to
me was like remember that, he said, Well, I didn't
want to disturb anyone. That's why I left the door
cracked open a little bit. That's just odd. I don't
think people would do that, especially if you're you leave
your room and go to your car and smoke a
cigar for several minutes. Yeah, and also the whole eBay

(01:06:03):
coach purse story that just didn't add up. He literally
took the map quest directions but left the eBay printouts. Yeah,
he would have had to, you know, shuffle through the papers.
And I mean there's just a lot to me that
I don't know. I get to it guilty pretty quickly. Yeah,
and there's no motive for anyone else. That was my
next question.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Is there any evidence that pointed to another suspect.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
No, it doesn't seem like it. I mean, her sister
is really the only other one that you could even
imagine might have done it, just based on her like
whereabouts that night and everything. But it just seems so
unlikely to me that she would. She had no motive,
and yeah, wouldn't have done that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
I think that the law law enforcement did a good
job in this case. I think their investigation seemed to
be pretty thorough. Some people have said that the timeline
is too tight, but to me, the timeline fits like
perfectly because I remember he had I think it was
six and a half hours because he left it at
midnight and he didn't get back to the hotel probably
till six thirty, Right, that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Was how far away was the hotel from his home?

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Well, with no traffic, it would have been two hours
and twenty five minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Which in the middle of the night, there's probably no traffic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Right, And maybe he could have even we don't know
how fast he drove, and he could have been going
eighty five miles an hour, So.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Even conservatively, he would have had five hours from the
time he left the Hampton Inn, went back home and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
We believe committed the murderers and a half hours.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Yeah, so plenty of time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Really, did investigators have tunnel vision? They really didn't have
any other suspects.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
I mean, it doesn't seem like there were any other.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Suspects that were violent, but she had no enemies. Everyone
loved her.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
If Jason had taken the stand at the second trial,
do you think it would have made a difference.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
No, I think it would have been worse for him.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Yeah, because the prosecution was ready.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Yeah, and in reality they played the testimonies from the
first trial, which was the best he could have hoped
to have done on the stand. So no, I think
it would have hurt him.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
The next question is a tough one. Should Jason have
been granted a retrial based on the judge's decision to
a low discussion of the uncle death lawsuit, in which
he declared him Michelle's murderer.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
I kind of think, so, I mean to be honest
with you, because I think the civil trial it didn't
it doesn't prove anything one way or another. It's fifty
to fifty, you know, so I think that seemed a
little unfair to me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
I agree that information was highly prejudicial, and because it
was the same judge, right, and I think a juror
a jury really comes to look at the judge is like,
I think, like a fatherly failure. And because that was
the same judge, they were like, well.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
You know the judge found he said so then.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Yeah, even though it was a default, right, it's still
to me it was just like, oh, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
I was surprised when the court overturned the appellate ruling,
because yeah, it did seem pretty prejudicial.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Cassidy was extremely smart for her age, and you can
tell if you remember the nine to one one call.
You could hear talking like yeah, and its sentences. Some
people said that she should have been brought to a
psychologist and questioned, what do you think about that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
I don't know how much she would have gotten out
of that, and it maybe wouldn't have been a bad idea,
but I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Think it a horrible idea. She was a.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Baby, well, I mean, but a psychologist would hopefully be
able to treat her appropriately and you know, help her
in some ways even but I don't think it would
have helped the case either way.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
All Right, My last question for you is who how
did Cassidy get clean? How is she so clean?

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Well, I think Jason must have washed her up, like
I think he must have cleaned her cleaned her up
after he's such a thought.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
I think that Cassidy could have walked into the room something.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
I mean, it's the only thing that makes sense. If
if there were bloody footprints of Cassidy's in the room,
I can't imagine what else made sense.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
You don't know if they were in the room. I
know they were in the I have pictures of the bathroom.
She was definitely in the bathroom.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
This is going to sound crazy, but I wonder if
she could have cleaned herself up. There was a step
stool like pulled up to the sink. Yeah, and maybe
she could have. I don't know, Maybe that's too crazy
because it was definitely a footprint, so I don't know
if she would have thought to wash.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Her seems unlikely to me, just because assuming Jason did
kill Michelle, he would have seen Cassidy there and he
would have, you know, if he drugged her, which it
sounds like he did, Like he wouldn't have let her
be walking around the bathroom cleaning herself. Like it seems
like he drugged her, made sure she was asleep, and
then probably headed back to the Hampton Inn.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Maybe I think it's possible also that Meredith, her aunt,
cleaned her up and she was in such a state
of shock that it was just a default, because.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
Washing the pajamas is just like instinct to you just
do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Like she might not have remembered because she was just
like so traumatized by the events and she was you know,
she used to be Cassidy's nanny and she was like, oh,
we just need to clean her up, and not remembered.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
It possible. Do you know anything about Cassidy's life now
or how old would she be at this point?

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I think she's twenty one, Okay, I did do a
brief search, but since we've been doing the podcast, I
think we're always curious, like, well, what happened to the children,
But I've kind of come to a different conclusion, like
it's really none of our business. Yeah, if Cassidy wanted
to be public, she'd be public. I did find one
picture of her. She's beautiful and she's in college, and

(01:11:22):
that's all we need to know. I hope she's I
hope she's doing well.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
My main source for this episode was a book called
Murder on Birch Leaf Drive by Steven Epstein, and I
think he did a great job. It was a very
good read. I read about a third of another book
called Absence of Evidence, An Examination of the Michelle Young
Murder Case by Lynn Blanchford, which I believe was a
self published book. Okay, oh boy, it was a bunch

(01:11:48):
of hooey. Really, but she really thinks that Meredith.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
Based on the title, it sounds like yeah, she Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
One thing that sticks with me, and we've seen this
time and time again, is how many of the men
in these cases don't have a history of domestic violence,
no arrests, no documented abuse, nothing that would make you
think that they were capable of something so awful, and
that makes it so unsettling. Although in this case, Jason
was had been aggressive with his exchiance, I don't know

(01:12:18):
if anyone else knew that, and everyone knew that he
and Michelle fought a lot. I always think about Chris Watts,
who was quiet and unassuming with picture perfect family. No
one saw it coming. It forces us to sit with
the uncomfortable idea that danger doesn't always come with warning signs.
Sometimes the people closest to you, the ones that you
share your life with, are the ones hiding the darkest

(01:12:40):
part of themselves. And here's the most disturbing part. Homicide
is the number one cause of death for pregnant women.
There's so many things that can go wrong in a pregnancy,
but homicide remains the number one cause.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
That's just shocking, incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Being pregnant should it should be a protective state like
as a like. Everyone should want to protect a pregnant woman,
especially if it's your own baby.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
Absolutely, that should be the last thing you have to
worry about.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Michelle Young was five months pregnant when she was killed,
and tragically, her story is not the exception as part
of a devastating pattern. So you'll be happy to know
that you are nothing like Jason Young.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
I didn't think I was.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Well, I'm glad to hear the baby laugh was when
they found his DSW history that he bought four pair
of shoes at one time. Wow, can you imagine?

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
I can't imagine that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
I've never You probably don't buy four pair of shoes
in a year. No, No, definitely not, and never on
your own MC. Where's the lost time? You were like,
you know, I need to I'm gonna go shoe shopping without.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
My wife once or twice only when I've needed like
shoes for a particular work you know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
Thing twice in twenty five years.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
The other day, I actually, I think it was for
Father's Day. I got you a new pair of birke
and stocks.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
You did, and I threw.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Year old ones away. I was like, holy cow, they were.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
How many pair of shoes do you think you own?

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
I want to? I think I feel like I own
a fair number of shoes. I don't wear them, like,
I only wear maybe two pair of shoes or three regularly.

Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Yeah, how many pair of shoes do you think I own?
A lot, like, just give me.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
A just one hundred and twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
It's horrible.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Oh yeah, that's about right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
I don't I'm not even I'm embarrassed, but I'm old.
I'm an old, old woman.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Shoes, shoes, and your shoes stop or your feet stop
growing once you're an adult. So it's not like shoes
you bought thirty years ago wouldn't still be.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
I think I do have my wedding shoes, but those
are probably yeah, those are definitely the older shoes I own.
But yeah, it's humbling. I think of the movie mister
McGrory Magic Imporium. I think that's what it was called
all the time. Do you know what moving I'm talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
I remember vague, Yeah, I mean I remember the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
I don't remember the shoe is he played by Dustin Hoffman. Yeah,
Dustin Hoffman. Right, at some point in the movie he dies,
but it was because he bought like a hundred pair
of the same shoes and he was like, well, once
the last pair of shoes are gone, it's time for
me to exit. And so like, I recently realized that
I only have two feet and I don't even really

(01:15:29):
go out that much anymore. I really don't need so
many shoes, so I've curbed my shoe purchasing a little bit.
Have you You don't believe.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
Me, No, I believe it. I believe you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
I mean I don't know a lot. I mean most
of my shoes are older. But yeah, it's it's kind
of gross how many shoes I have. So curious how
many shoes our listeners have? So let us know, because
am I normal? Am I not throwing things away enough?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
I am guessing you are not out of the ordinary
when it comes to the number of shoes, But I
don't know either, I could be wrong, So yeah, yeah,
let us know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Part of it is I love sneakers and they just
really give me a lot of joy. And I have
a hard time throwing getting rid of the not like
the ones that I work out in. Those you know
you get rid of, but the ones you know I have.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
I have a process. I buy, I buy like shoes
to work out in, and they generally don't leave the
house because I usually work out indoors. And then ones
I buy a new pair of shoes to work out in,
those shoes become my just going out and you know,
walking around shoes right, very efficient.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
You're good to take on vacation because you're a lack
of shoes in the suitcase. Sometimes I can make room
for my extra shoes.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Yeah, yeah, we work well together.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Before we go, I wanted to mention that The New
York Times has recently published their top one hundred films
of the twenty first century. Oh yeah, always looking for
something to watch.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
It's a long way to go.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Right, but still it's great to have a list of yeah,
top films. So we'll post that in our show notes
so you guys can access it. They also found, I
think it was last summer they post their like top
one hundred books, so if you're looking for like a
beach read or actually there's probably not many beach reads
on there. But so, do you remember what the number
one movie was? I don't Parasite.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Oh see, I actually didn't even look. I looked at
the first part of the list, but I can get
all the way through it, so I didn't realize Parasite
was number one.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
But that is number one.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
Great. I love them.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
I love that movie. We loved it so much. We
saw it twice at the theater, which we never do, right,
so I don't know if it's the number one movie,
but it's a great movie.

Speaker 4 (01:17:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Number two is Mulholland Dry, also a really interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
I wouldn't have even thought that was the twenty first century.
I thought that was that was must have been in
the early two.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Thousand and one. Yeah, there will be blood number three
in that Mood to Love, which I don't know that
one Moonlight, No Country for Old Men, Eternal Sunshine of
the Spotless Mind, Get Out, Spirited Away, and the Social Network.
Those are the top ten.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Oh, we've seen like almost not quite all of those,
but probably seven or eight out of the time, I've.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Seen all of them except for in the Mood for Love.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Yeah, and it's a good list though.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Yeah. I'm excited to find some new things on this
Yeah for sure, because we don't watch as many movies
as we used to because we are always working on
the podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
We should you need to sign time for movies?

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
We both, Yeah, definitely, but not as much as Love Island.
I love a reality.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
You should just keep coming back to Love Island.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Well, thank you all so much for listening. We hope
you enjoyed this episode.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social
media and YouTube, or send us an email at Lovemarykill
at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Thank you so much to all of our new Patreon subscribers.
We've had a lot of new subscribers in the last month.
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
Yeah, and if you would like to support us on Patreon,
go to patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We have one
tier five dollars a month and you get early ad
free access and a monthly bonus episode until next time.

Speaker 9 (01:18:57):
Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
To compet,

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Michelle and Jason Young - Part 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Michelle and Jason Young - Part 2