Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 1 - Love Marry Kill

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing
we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's that some days you'll feel like killing your.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Wife and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm doing good?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
How are You've been super busy today? Yeah? I hardly
seen your lovely face.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I know it feels like we have not really connected
it all today, So good to talk to you.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
How's the marriage meter?

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Do you feel like killing me?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Or I'm You're on You're on the opposite end of
the spectrum because you defrosted the icebaker was really truly heroic, amazing.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
I guess we should explain. We have a refrigerator and
it's really dumb, but we don't go out and a
new refrigerator. But that's a really big decision. Our ice
maker has in the five years that we've lived here,
has never really worked. Frustrated, it's really dumb, and the
ice maker actually has completely given out. So we have
gone old school and we resorted to using ice trays.

(01:15):
It's hot as heck here in Michigan right now, so
we're kind of going through the ice, and we thought
always not a big deal, we'll just get but no,
we both hate making the ice. So yeah, today the ice,
which this is riveting content to subscribe to our Patriot
I'm just kidding. But we're going to be off on
vacation this week. If you're listening to this on Monday,

(01:37):
our family is I'm sure we're having the time of
our lives all together. Yeah, and we've opted for our
road trip rather than an airplane trip, so it be fun.
Excited about that.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I am looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, it'll be nice to have a little time away.
And where we were recording today from Monday and then
this is I'm pretty sure it's going to be two parts,
so we have the next couple Mondays, so you'll not
be left without a new episode. I know a lot
of people are wondering, are you going to stop at BUCkies?
Because we talk about how our dream trip involves stopping
at BUCkies. We're going north, not south, so no BUCkies.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
We're going west.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, we're going north too.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
We're going west then north.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
I'll tell you about it when we get back. But
it's not the most exciting trip, but it'll be nice.
I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I love a good road trip.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
We do love a good road trip. I think I
prefer road trips because you can pack more, you can
take more shoes, just throw them in the back of
your car.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I find it more relaxing too, Like I just like driving.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
You like driving, and you like listening to your music,
and we're gonna have to take turns. Okay, maybe we
can do some karaoke.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Sure that sounds like fun.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Well, let us know if you have any favorite gas
station snacks that not BUCkies, but you think that we
should try.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Or any games to play in the car. Road trip
games are always fun, I think.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
With our kids, who are both older, I mean I
think everyone's just going to have their phones exactly. I
think that it's probably not going to be a lot
of the ABC game going, but maybe maybe the first
hour or so. Oh. Also, if you have any good
summer reads. Let us know if you've only read any
good books lately, because we'll probably hopefully have a chance

(03:17):
to do a lot.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I am looking for a book to read.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
All right, Well, we are going back to North Carolina today.
I know we were just in North Carolina, but we're
going back today because when I was researching Michelle and
Jason Young, I found another story that just really intrigued me.
So I have a North Carolina snack for you.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Okay, I'm going to North Carolina in a few weeks, so.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, oh, we're in North Carolina, Charlotte. Okay. I bought
some cookies for you from Dewey's Bakery and I actually
tried them earlier. They're really good. They're super thin, and
they're super crispy, and you can eat get this, you
can eat eight cookies for one hundred and twenty calories.
They're healthy, but two where one is brownie crisp and

(04:01):
the other is Meyer Lemon. I also brought you some
a Michigan snack, some Michigan sherries that are so delicious.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, they are really good.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Right now, Okay, we'll be right back. So what did
you think of Dewey's Bakery cookies.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
I thought they were delightful, very thin, crispy, really good flavor.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Full disclosure, you have not been eating sugar this week,
so they probably tasted extra good.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
They did taste extra good. I was thinking the only
thing that would really make them better is if you
made some butter cream frosting and put it in the
middle of two of them.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
They're very thin and they're very crispy. What would you
rate them? From eight to ten?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
I would get from eight to ten.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
I mean, okay, you know what I meant.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, I would give them a nine out of ten.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Really, yeah, I would. Well, because I only gave you
they could give them an eight, nine or ten, so
I would give them an eight out of ten. I
think That's what I was thinking of what I say,
because I had I was like, I mean, they're a
nice cookie. I think if you like tea or coffee,
you would very much like these cookies for sure. Okay,
onto the case. This episode does contain talk of domestic

(05:11):
abuse that may be triggering for some listeners, so please
listen with care and thanks to Tina from Dexter, Michigan
for recommending this.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh I Think I Know Her.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
On Saturday, July twelfth, two thousand and eight, in Carrie,
North Carolina, Jessica Adam was worried about her friend, Nancy Cooper.
Nancy had promised to be at Jessica's house at eight
am to help her paint after her morning run. She
wasn't answering her phone or text messages, which wasn't like
her at all. Nancy's phone, car, wallet, and keys were
all still at home. Jessica was beginning to panic. She

(05:45):
had a pit in her stomach and her intuition was pinging,
telling her something was very wrong. Nancy was in the
midst of a contentious separation with her husband of eight years,
Bradley Cooper, not that Bradley Cooper. When Jessica caught he
told her that Nancy had gone for a run with
her friend Carrie that morning and he hadn't seen her.
Since Nancy was an avid runner and was training for

(06:08):
a marathon, safety was a concern for Nancy, who usually
ran the trails near her home along Lockmere Drive in
the subdivision where she lived. Nancy and brad had attended
a barbecue at their neighbor's house the previous night. Brad
left around eight pm to put their little girls to bed,
four year old Bella and nearly two year old Katie.
He said he fell asleep in the girl's bedroom. Nancy

(06:31):
got home from the party around twelve thirty am. Before
calling the police, Jessica Adam phoned local hospitals, hoping for
some sign of her missing friend. When that turned up nothing,
she called nine one one at one fifty pm.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
According to her husband, when I called this morning at
about nine that he said that she had left this
morning for run early. He believed with her friend.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Has he been violent with her in the past. I
don't know that he's been the Queen Island.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
I know there's been a lot of tension, and so
I you know, wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I hate to say it, but I'm.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Just I'm not sure what to do.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Is it possible that she might have done something else,
had possibly forgotten she would have.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Made contact with either me or her other friends by now,
who both had expected her today. And the fact that
her car is still at home and her cell phone
in there is a little weird. She you know, that's
that's that would not make sense.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Well, that's a good friend. First of all, She sounded
so nervous, like you could tell she.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
She's very away to her friend.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well you could tell she's worried, But you can tell
she also thinks that Brad had something to do with it,
but she's afraid to even say it, Like she doesn't
even want to voice that fear.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Right, Jessica asked if she needed to wait to file
a missing person's report, but the dispatcher said no, though
Nancy's husband, Brad, would need to make the official call.
An officer was sent to the Cooper home to speak
with Brad.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's kind of weird that Brad has to make the
official call on that.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I don't know the exact situation, but maybe it's like
your closest living relative needs to make a call. I
don't know. An hour later, another friend of Nancy's, Clea Morris,
reached out to her identical twin sister, Christa Lister, who
lived in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The sisters talked multiple times
a day. When Christa heard that Nancy was missing, panic

(08:31):
set in. She immediately called her brother in law. She'd
never really liked him or believed that he was good
enough for her sister. Brad told Christa the same thing
that he'd told Jessica. Nancy had gone for a run
and she hadn't come back yet. Christa alerted her parents
and siblings. The family, close knit and protective, was shaken

(08:51):
and frustrated that Brad hadn't contacted them himself. Christa later
said quote she'd never leave her kids. I knew she
was in danger. I couldn't feel her anymore. Jeff Renz,
the oldest sibling, was a police officer, and his instincts
told him that this would end badly. Christa tried to
book a flight, but the bad weather had grounded all travel.

(09:13):
Desperate to do something, she rented a car and drove
the seven hundred and sixty miles from Toronto to carry
North Carolina. But deep down, she already knew her twin,
her other half, her best friend, was gone, and she
was right. Nancy Lynne Rentz was born on August twenty fifth,
nineteen seventy three, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, to Donna and

(09:36):
Gary Rentz, her identical sister, Christa, who was five minutes
older and known for being the quieter of the two,
while Nancy was the more outgoing one, a social butterfly.
Their older brother, Jeff, was the only son in the family.
The youngest sibling, Jill, was nine years younger than the
twins and admired her older sisters, especially Nancy. Jill said quote,

(09:57):
she was my entire life growing up. I wanted to
be Nancy. I wanted to do everything with her. She
was just that girl who not only guys, but everyone
wanted to be around. My friends wanted her to be
their sister. Everybody loved her. She was just perfection to me.
The Rentz family ran a family business together and were

(10:17):
a close knit, respected family. Nancy turned to running after
she was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, an inflammatory ball disease
or IBD that causes inflammation in the digestive tract, leading
to belly pain, severe diarrhea, fatigue, weight loss, and malnutrition.
It could be a painful and debilitating disease with no cure,

(10:38):
but often a careful diet and lifestyle changes can lead
to improved quality of life and the disease can go
into remission for years. Running helped Nancy keep her symptoms
in check and her anxiety at bay. Among the stress
of her life and marriage. It read something that she
at one time had aspirations of being an Olympic athlete.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Bradley Graham Cooper was born in October nineteen seventy three
and medicine had Alberta, Canada, to parents Carol and Terry.
He has one younger brother named Grant. He hasn't divulged
much of his upbringing, but he isn't very close with
his family or any of his childhood friends. Later, when
asked his nephew's name, he couldn't even remember it. His

(11:19):
father was an organic chemistry professor who had high expectations
for Brad's education and career. Brad graduated from the University
of Calgary with a degree in computer science in nineteen
ninety seven. Before he met Nancy, he was engaged twice.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Nancy Wrintz met Brad Cooper when they were working together
at Trans Canada Pipelines. Nancy worked in computer support and
Brad was an IT specialist on contract through IBM. He
was quiet, reserved and still recovering from a messy broken engagement.
At first, Nancy actually considered setting him up with a friend,
but after spending more time with him, she started to reconsider.

(11:58):
Brad wasn't her usual type. He was more introverted than
the outgoing, confident men she typically dated, but something about
his quiet, serious nature drew her in. When Nancy and
Brad went on a double date with Christa and Christa's
future husband, Jim Lister, she wasn't impressed with Brad. He
didn't say much and came off as awkward. Christa was

(12:19):
surprised that Nancy wanted to keep seeing him. He just
didn't seem like her usual type. The rest of the
family had mixed opinions. Some appreciated Brad's quiet introspection and
saw it as thoughtful. Others felt that he and Nancy
were just too different. Nancy was social spirited and expressive.
Brad was more reserved and analytical. But he made an

(12:41):
effort to connect with the Rent's family, and they welcomed
him with open arms. He and Jill, the youngest Rent's sister,
grew especially close. He called her his little sister and
they shared an easy, comfortable bond. Brad seemed to genuinely
enjoy being part of such a close, loving family.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
The Brad is a super smart and one thing that
he did of the family really appreciated. He came in
and he completely redid their computer system for their family business,
and he did a really good job and people were
really impressed with his knowledge and abilities.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
On Christmas nineteen ninety nine, Brad proposed with a large
diamond ring. Nancy said yes, but she had some doubts.
She found herself thinking about a former boyfriend, an older
man who was divorced with kids she preferred older men.
That relationship ended because he didn't want more children and
Nancy did. Brad did want a family, and that mattered

(13:35):
to her. In the end, she chose to marry him,
maybe not with absolute certainty, but with the hope that
their differences could balance out and that they could build
a good life together.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
If you're walking down the aisle and you're having doubts, yeah,
maybe you just it's not going to get better.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, that's not not a good sign. When Brad was
offered a position at Cisco Systems in North Carolina by
his former boss, he and Nancy, he decided to marry
quickly so she could accompany him to the United States.
They tied the knot in a small ceremony before a
Justice of the Peace on October thirteenth, two thousand. While
Nancy's family attended, none of Brad's relatives or friends were present.

(14:15):
The Ren's family was taken aback by how sudden it
all was, especially since Nancy had always envisioned a large,
traditional wedding surrounded by loved ones. The move also meant
a major sacrifice for Nancy, despite her promising career in management,
she would have to give it up as she wasn't
permitted to work in the US with only a green card.
Jill later said, quote, she was so successful here and

(14:38):
she gave up everything to go there and try something new.
And she just wanted a family. She wanted to buy
the house. She wanted to have the two point five
kids and the two cars. So she was just willing
to give up so much of herself and what was
important to her to make it happen.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
There really was a big sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, it really is. You don't think about that with
Canada and the US, we almost think of them as
same country. But yeah, you need authorization to work. On
January first, two thousand and one, Brad and Nancy Cooper
moved to the US and bought a home in Carrie,
North Carolina, in the well established Lockmere Subdivision, a neighborhood
of about nineteen hundred homes set on wooded lots with

(15:17):
a pond and miles of running trails and a quiet
suburban feel. It was a good location, only ten minutes
to Raleigh and twenty minutes to the airport, with lots
of convenient shopping and dining options, and very low crime.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Rates.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
The Cooper's brick two story house, built in nineteen ninety three,
was twenty eight hundred square feet and cost two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars. But for Nancy, that first year
in North Carolina was anything but idyllic. She felt increasingly
isolated and unhappy. As Brad's control over her tightened. She
traveled back to Canada, often seeking comfort and clarity. During

(15:53):
one of those visits, she confided in her family that
she believed she had made a mistake marrying Brad. She
was ready to leave the brief marriage. Nancy knew it
was wrong, but she had started seeing someone new, a
man she felt drawn to and compelled to give a chance.
She even brought him to Christa's wedding. There was a
connection she couldn't ignore, and for the first time in

(16:14):
a long while, she was happy and optimistic about the future.
She planned to leave Brad for this other man, but
Nancy's family encouraged her to give the marriage more time
to try to make it work. Her younger sister, Jill,
took the news especially hard. She had always been close
to Brad and had firmly believed in their relationship. Jill
urged Nancy not to walk away, telling her she was

(16:36):
making a mistake. Among the family, Jill had been Brad's
strongest supporter. Brad eventually flew to Canada to see Nancy
and promised to try harder to fix what was broken
in their marriage. Reluctantly, Nancy agreed to return to North
Carolina with him, but things between them were far from resolved.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
That was the first year of their marriage, and in
my estimation, they never had a honey moon period. Seemed
like they were always at odds with each other.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, that's really not like even you know, doubting the
marriage before she got married, and then not having any
kind of honeymoon period. It's all just a really bad
sign that it's not going to work out.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Nancy was exceptionally social and she really loved her family
and they were very close, So ripping her away from
her support network and her job and I think it
really left her lost in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
I'm sure. Brad worked long hours as a network engineer
at Cisco Systems, specializing in voiceover Internet Protocol or VoIP,
a rapidly growing technology that allowed phone calls to travel
over computer networks instead of traditional phone lines. In two
thousand and eight, VoIP was still emerging, and Brad had
carved out a niche as one of its top experts,

(17:49):
with a rare skill set held by only about one
hundred and fifty people worldwide. At the time, he was
considered a leader in the field of telecommunications. The early
two thousands brought a boom tech and Brad's expertise kept
him in high demand, especially in Europe and across the US.
He often traveled for weeks at a time, rarely checking
in with Nancy at home. That was a crazy time

(18:11):
for technology, and if you were in that field as
I was back then, like you could write your ticket
to whatever company you wanted, and if you had like
a specialized expertise like that, But traveling for weeks at
a time, that must have not been good for the
marriage exactly.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
You traveled a lot back then, I did. Yeah, we'll
talk more about this later. But Brad I felt like,
didn't make as much money maybe as he could have,
because it sounds like, you know, he was one of
only one hundred and fifty people that could do this,
but they did have a lot of financial struggles.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, that is surprising because I would think he would
have been able to write his own ticket, We'll be
back after a break.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Isabella Nancy Cooper Bella was born in February two thousand
and four, and Nancy was overjoyed to become a mother.
Though her marriage was still floundering. Motherhood gave her a
renewed sense of purpose and perspective. Becoming a parent also
opened a door to new, lasting friendships. People were naturally
drawn to Nancy's warmth and energy, and she quickly became

(19:18):
a cherished friend to many. She was so charismatic and
engaging everyone thought that they were her best friend. Her
twin Christa recalled quote they had finally kind of found
their way, and Nan was happy she had a kid,
She had a great friend network. Wasn't necessarily happy in
her marriage, but happy in her life. The birth of

(19:39):
Bella gave Brad even more control over Nancy's day to
day life. He put her on a weekly allowance of
about three hundred dollars, just enough to cover groceries and
basic necessities, and she didn't have a car of her own.
Nancy didn't mind going without for herself, but what she
couldn't accept was not being able to provide everything bella needed,
especially when there was no financial reason for it. Brad

(20:02):
had a good job and made a solid income. To
make ends meet, Nancy began babysitting for friends, but when
Brad found out, he started giving her even less money.
When I wrote that section, I don't think I had
the whole view of their finances. I thought that Brad
had this great job and he was, you know, one
of the leaders in his industry. But in actuality, and

(20:23):
we're going to talk about it more in a little bit,
they were struggling a little bit. In July two thousand
and six, their second daughter, Gabriella Catherine, whom they called Katie,
was born. Nancy adored her girls and poured herself into motherhood,
but this was the point when the marriage became unbearable.
Brad's career was taking off, and with that came more
travel and more ego. Nancy wasn't the only one who

(20:46):
noticed the shift in his demeanor. The quiet, reserved man
that she once knew seemed to be disappearing and replaced
with a cold, self absorbed man. Brad was also going
to school at North Carolina State for his MBA. He
also trained for iron Man triathlons, which left him little
time for Nancy and the girls. Bred Adam, a friend

(21:07):
of the couple, later said in an affidavit that Brad
sometimes rode his exercise bike for eight hours at a
time to avoid his parenting responsibilities.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Parenting, so you.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Must have been in very good shapely. Brad's wife, Jessica,
was harsh in her assessment of Brad. Quote I would
describe Brad as socially upt selfish, moody, and unpredictable. Nancy
walked on eggshells around Brad and did her best to
appease him so that she could avoid confrontation with him.
If she made him angry, he punished her in calculated,

(21:40):
manipulative ways. Brad's lack of involvement in his daughter's lives
was shocking. Nancy's friends all said that he didn't attend
their birthday parties, school events, dance recitals, or doctor visits.
Nancy had suffered from five miscarriages before Bella and Katie's berths,
and each time Nancy, who didn't have a car at
the time, had to take a taxi to the hospital.

(22:00):
So there are different accounts here. Brad denies some of
these things. He said, I was at the birthday parties.
You know, I went to the things. But he accuses
Nancy of painting a really bad picture of him to
her friends. For years, Nancy had quietly suspected that Brad
was unfaithful during his business trips brief passing affairs. She

(22:23):
couldn't prove, but she couldn't shake either. But nothing compared
to the betrayal that came when he began a relationship
with her best friend, Heather Mature. According to sworn affidavits
from eight of Nancy's close friends, that affair was the
final breaking point in the Cooper's already troubled marriage. Nancy's
friends had never been particularly fond of Brad. They described

(22:46):
him as a loner, quiet, socially awkward, and standoffish. He
had a way of making people uncomfortable, and more than
one friend referred to him as self absorbed or even narcissistic.
The affair only confirmed what many of them had feared
it all along, that Brad was not the partner that
Nancy deserved. After a beach trip with friends, including Heather

(23:06):
Mature and her husband, Brad suddenly insisted that Nancy cut
off contact with her, calling her a bad influence. During
that same trip, Brad and Heather had taken a walk
on the beach and disappeared together for nearly two hours.
Nancy's sisters had met Heather and didn't like her. They
found her loud, attention seeking, and manipulative. Still, Nancy continued

(23:27):
to see Heather socially, but kept it from Brad. In
late two thousand and seven, over dinner and drinks, Heather
confessed to Nancy that she had slept with Brad. She
also admitted that she was involved with another friend's husband,
John Pearson, an affair that had turned messy with a
man's wife filing a lawsuit against her. Knowing her reputation

(23:48):
was catching up with her, Heather said that she wanted
Nancy to hear it from her directly. When Nancy confronted Brad,
he flatly denied the affair. He gasped at her, turning
the situation around so compleat depletely that Nancy ended up
apologizing to him. At the time, she told herself that
brad sneile was enough, but she caught off ties with Heather,

(24:09):
suggesting that she knew the truth deep down. One day,
when Nancy was out running errands and Bella napped in
the primary bedroom. Heather came by the Cooper house. She
and Brad had sex in the bedroom closet, just steps
away from his sleeping daughter, and her two children were
also in the house. Oh my gosh. It's unclear when
Nancy found out about that specific encounter, but after months

(24:31):
of denials and heated arguments, on New Year's Day two
thousand and eight, Brad gave Nancy what he called the
full story. He admitted to sleeping with Heather, but claimed
it had only happened once and it was a drunken mistake.
Nancy wasn't sure she could move past the affair, but
her mother, Donna Wrence, encouraged her to give the marriage
another chance. She believed that Nancy and Brad could work

(24:52):
through it. Brad, for his part, seemed remorseful. He promised
to attend marriage counseling and made a renewed effort to
win Nancy back. He told her they could start fresh,
build their dream home together. They bought a lot and
began working with a builder to choose a floor plan.
For a while, Nancy felt hopeful. She was genuinely excited
about the possibility of a new beginning, even if it

(25:15):
was with Brad. But then her bubble of happiness first
when during a therapy session, Brad told her the truth
about the affair with Heather. He was actually in love
with Heather. They actually only had one therapy session, and
then Nancy was like, oh, yeah, that's all it took. Dounia,
Nancy's friend Cleia Morwick later wrote in an an affidavit,

(25:35):
quote after a year of lies and aggressive, heated arguments
over the affair, Brad admitted it had occurred and that
he had been in love with Heather at the time.
This was the final slap in the face for Nancy.
She had been ridiculed, verbally badgered, and humiliated again and
again by Brad. Soon after, Nancy ran into an acquaintance
who had been in Brad's NBA program at NC State. Unprompted,

(25:58):
she said, quote, if you're of whor'sing your husband, I'm
glad to give you evidence. And then, to make matters
even worse, she found out that there was at least
one other woman, a coworker's wife. Nancy told Brad their
marriage was unsalvigable. They stopped sharing a bed when Brad
moved into the guest bedroom. Brad called the builder to
cancel their home plans. When the builder, clearly angry, asked why,

(26:19):
Brad told him that his wife was terminally ill.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Brad slowly broke down Nancy with his abuse. When in
his presence she was smaller, Brad had dimmed her bright light.
He would beraate her in front of their children and
control every aspect of her life. She feared for her
and the girl's safety. It got so bad she began
sleeping in her clothes in the girl's room with the
door locked, her car keys in her pocket in case

(26:44):
she needed to make a quick escape. Once confident and
self assured, she was now broken. At times she was
angry and sharp with friends and her children, and at
other times she just seemed sad. She jokingly referred to
her husband as the budget Nazi, but she was clearly rattled.
Not Able to provide everything the children needed, she frequently

(27:05):
turned to her parents for help financially. Brad had taken
her name off of all the credit cards and their
bank account. One time, when Brad was out of town,
the water was shut off because he had failed to
pay the water bill. Nancy had no way of paying
the bill, which left her and the girls without water
until he finally paid it. Friends also thought that Brad,
using the technology from his job, listened in on Nancy's

(27:28):
phone calls and sometimes abruptly ended them. It sounds crazy,
but it happened so often that Nancy's friends were sure
that he was doing something. At times, he took her
cell phone for several days as punishment. He controlled when
Nancy left the house and who she spent time with.
A week before her murder, Nancy and the girls were
having dinner with Jessica and brad Adam. Brad called her

(27:50):
and told her that she had no right to decide
where the girls ate dinner that night. He demanded she
come home immediately, and he sounds like a monster.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
There are two sides to this story, though. I'm telling
it from Nancy's point of view. But you know, there
are people that believe that Brad has been railroaded. Okay,
so we'll talk more about that later, all right.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
In March two thousand and eight, Nancy retained attorney Alice
Stubbs to begin the process of a legal separation. When
she told Brad their marriage was over and that she
planned to move back to Canada with Bella and Katie.
He initially agreed, but made an unusual request. He asked
that they remain in North Carolina for the summer, after
which she could leave with the girls and he would

(28:34):
never see them again.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
That's weird, right, That's very weird.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
But soon Brad changed his mind. He proposed a shocking
new arrangement. They would split custody by separating the sisters,
each parent taking one child.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's crazy, too, that is crazy.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
It was a disturbing suggestion that seemed to reflect his
growing instability as his control over Nancy slipped away.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Brad later denied suggesting any of this. He said, what
he meant was, you take Bella's passport, I'll take Katie's passport.
That way, neither of us can leave the country with
the girls.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Okay. Not long after, Brad reversed course again. He told
Nancy he was putting the house on the market at
the end of April and that she and the girls
needed to move out. Alice Stubbs emailed a formal separation
agreement to Nancy on April fifteenth, two thousand and eight.
Nancy didn't sign it or give it to Brad. In person. Later,
a claim was made that Brad had intercepted the document

(29:30):
and Nancy had never received it. The agreement stated that
Brad would have to pay twenty one hundred dollars a
month in child support and a yet to be determined
amount in alimony. As far as custody, Nancy would have
primary custody in Canada and Brad could have visitation every
other weekend and two weeks in the summer. Brad claimed
that these expenses, along with the school tuition and medical

(29:52):
expenses he would be expected to pay, would be more
than he made in a month.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
So when Brad was saying go ahead and move to Canada,
I don't think he was thinking, oh, I'm going to
still have to pay, you know, to support you and
the kids.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
He was thinking that would get him out of all that, right.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
It seemed like he intercepted this document Nancy. I'm not
sure if she had seen it, and he saw that
amount of money and he was like, oh crap, and
that is a lot of money. Yeah, but a man
should have to support his family, right.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Once Brad realized that Nancy and the girls moving to
Canada wouldn't end his financial obligation to them, his perspective
again shifted. Brad changed his mind and decided he wouldn't
allow Nancy to take the girls to Canada. Nancy had
hidden their passports and other important documents in her car,
but Brad found them, took them and refused to give
them back. Soon after, he announced he would be seeking

(30:44):
full custody. To those close to the situation, his decision
appeared to be driven more by financial motives than a
genuine desire to have the children with him full time.
Brad had taken a class geared towards men who are
getting a divorce on how to limit financial loss and
win custody. He attempted to become a more hands on
dad and claimed he wanted to make their marriage work,

(31:06):
but Nancy knew it was all a ruse to win
in court and avoid paying alimony and child support. Overwrought,
Nancy called Christa sobbing on the phone. Christa was so
upset she talked to her parents, who were visiting China,
and begged them to come home to help Nancy leave Brad.
Christa and Jill tried to devise an escape for Nancy,

(31:26):
but she was confident that she just had to tough
out a few more months, and then she'd have her freedom.
Nancy told christa quote, I can do this. I can
make this work out until I get there. I'm not worried,
I'm angry, and I want to move on.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
To get Nancy's mind off of her marriage woes. The
first week of July, Nancy and the girls met her
parents and siblings on Hilton had Island for a family vacation.
They had a wonderful trip, but saying goodbye was heart wrenching.
Nancy clung to her family at the airport and told
her parents she just wanted to go home with them.
They all sobbed, but planned to be reunited soon. When

(32:01):
Nancy returned home on July seventh, she was shocked at
the state of things at her house. Brad hadn't washed
a single dish, had left messes in every room of
the house, and the refrigerator was empty. The kitchen was
covered in ants and maggots. It was as if Brad
had gone out of his way to leave a mess
in every room of the house for her to come

(32:22):
home to.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
It almost sounds like he was sending her a message like,
don't do this again.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Nancy left the following voicemail for her father quote, I
came home and the house was so dirty. There was
an ant infestation on the table. The plates the girls
ate on are still in the sink with food and
ants on them. I'm so furious at how disgusting my
house was when I got there. There were so many
bugs in the house when Nancy returned that she had

(32:48):
to call the exterminator. Full disclosure. I don't think Nancy
and Brad either, one of them keeping their house clean.
Didn't sound like it was a top priority.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Well, keeping it a little cleaner, so thatots oh.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, no, absolutely, But I don't think Nancy was the
best housekeeper either. And Nancy was, like I said, she
was an extrovert. She liked to talk to people, and
she didn't have a problem telling people like her situation
in her marriage, like the exterminator, who later testified she

(33:22):
even told him, yeah, my husband and I are going
through a rough time. You know, we're going to get divorced.
She's you know, so yeah yeah. Later that week, on Friday,
July eleventh, the Cooper's neighbors hosted a party. Nancy, Brad,
and the girls attended, and everyone who attended remembered the
tension between the couple. This is where we started, so

(33:42):
we're coming back to the beginning. Brad left at eight
pm with Bella and Katie. Nancy staid until after midnight,
and sadly it would be the last night of Nancy's life.
The next morning, Nancy was supposed to be at Jessica
adams house at eight am to help her paint. Jessica
and her husband, Brad, had hired her to paint so
she could earn some extra money. Nancy was grateful for

(34:03):
the work, but when she didn't show up by nine
thirty and wasn't answering her cell phone, Jessica began to worry.
She called the Cooper's home phone. When Brad answered, he
told her that Nancy had gone running with her friend Carrie.
This didn't make sense to Jessica because she usually ran
with Nancy, but she let the thought go. At twelve thirty,
Nancy still hadn't shown up. Brad called her and asked

(34:25):
for Carrie's phone number and told her that Nancy still
wasn't home and he was concerned. Rad said he and
the girls were going out to look for her. Jessica
had an uneasy feeling and decided to call the police.
She was so rattled that she asked a friend to
drive her to the Cooper's home. By the time the
police arrived, a small crowd of Nancy's friends had gathered
outside her home. Nancy's friends remind me a lot of

(34:48):
Chanan Watts's friends to remember.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
How, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Actually yeah, and Nancy has a small army of friends
who really had her back. Nancy's friends remind me a
lot of Schanan Watts's friend friends.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Remember how, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Actually yeah, And Nancy has a small army of friends
who really had her back. Yeah. They alerted the police,
you know, way before Brad would. If I told you
I was going out for a run, first of all,
you would be you would be a little surprised, little
maybe a little not But I don't exercise, but I
usually do it here, right, But how long would it

(35:23):
take for you to call the police?

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I mean not super long, Like if you were gone
for an hour, I would start to get worried.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
It depends why I'm leaving the house.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Well right, sure, yeah, But if you.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
If I say I'm going out for a run, phone. Right.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
If you regularly went out for runs and you were
usually like less than an hour, I would start to
get worried after hot.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Pretty quickly, and you would probably drive around. I totally
would definitely within two hours.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
When Brad returned from looking for Nancy, he told officers
that earlier that morning, Katie had woken up around four
am tired and cranky, wanting milk. Nancy woke up soon after,
annoyed that he hadn't told her the night before that
they were out of milk. Around six fifteen am, he
went to the Harris Teeter grocery store to buy milk,
a trip captured on the store's surveillance footage. This grocery

(36:13):
store was about two miles away from the Cooper's home.
There was another grocery store, Lowe's Foods, much closer across
the streets from the subdivision. When Brad returned home, Nancy
asked if he could go back out and pick up
laundry detergent. While he was on his way, Nancy called
his cell phone to ask if he could also grab
a naked brand green juice, a call that appeared on

(36:35):
his cell phone log lasting thirty eight seconds. I'm just
curious how long this phone call would take, just calling
to ask, Yeah, let's just reenact it really quick.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, I don't think. Well, Okay, are you going to
be Nancy here?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Hello?

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Oh hey, would you mind getting some green juice while
you're at the store? Bella really would like some.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Sure, I'll pick them up.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
All right, thanks, talk to you later.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
That was nine seconds.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Maybe they said one or two other things besides just that.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah. Also, while I was researching this case, I was
just curious how much milk is at different stores. And
the Harris Teeter, which is the one that was a
couple of miles away, the milk is more expensive today,
is more expensive, I don't know what it cost in
two thousand and eight, and the Low's store it was,
you know, like a somewhat cheaper. And he got laundry

(37:25):
detergent too, And milk is one thing, but laundry detergent
is fairly expensive, and that was also cheaper at the
low store. But then, because you know, I'm a researcher,
I also checked those items here at our local Myer store,
and everything at our store was at least a dollar cheaper.

(37:47):
So I worked in grocery stores for years, and I'm
a big grocery store NERD. So I was curious about
the differences between North Carolina and here, and I thought
that the prices in North Carolina would be cheaper than
the prices in ann Arbor, Michigan. But I was surprised that,
you know, like I said, the milk is like a
dollar more than a dollar cheaper here. And I also

(38:08):
checked the naked juice is cheaper in ann Arbor, and
so is tied fascinating. So if anyone in North Carolina
is thinking about a move to Michigan, you know, maybe
maybe we're a little yeah. Brad was seen on surveillance
again leaving the same store at six forty five am,
notably wearing different shoes. When he got home, he went
upstairs to his office with Katie. He said that Nancy

(38:30):
called out to ask if he'd seen her running shirt.
A moment later, he heard the front door open and
close as she headed out for her usual morning run
at about seven am. So this kind of surprised me,
because would I ever say, hey, Rich, have you seen
my workout shirt?

Speaker 2 (38:45):
No, you would never say when I might ask you that.
But you would never ask me that, right.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So Brad had a tennis date with a friend at
nine am, but when Nancy didn't return, he pushed it back,
assuming that she'd stop for a coffee and would be
home soon. When she didn't return ten he canceled on
his tennis plans and grew more concerned. I'm a little
confused about the timing here because Brad has this tennis date,
but Nancy is supposed to be painting her friend's house,

(39:12):
and I'm not sure who was supposed to have the kids.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Maybe Nancy was going to take the girls with her. Yeah,
they don't know. Brad said he didn't call nine one
one himself because he had taken the girls with him
to go look for Nancy. In Anatha David, he wrote, quote,
by one pm, I was very concerned about Nancy's not
coming home. I fed Bella and Katie lunch, dressed them,
and put them in the car. We drove around looking
for Nancy at the places she usually goes. He said.

(39:39):
He looked at the running trails that Nancy usually ran
and lifetime fitness. He didn't call the police or Nancy's parents. Later,
he said that he was under the impression that he
needed to wait twenty four hours before reporting a person missing.
He claimed that in the last year his marriage to Nancy,
he had refocused on their family. Quote, I dropped my

(39:59):
extra activity and evening workout so that I could be
home directly from work and spend more time with Nancy,
give her a break from the girls, and help her
more around the house. I love Nancy very much, and
I wanted to stay married to her.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
He sounds like the husband and father of the year.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Well, remember he had taken some class like for you
know dads that are divorcing. In the class, they told them,
you know, focus on your family and be as present
as you can. His affidavit read like a fairy tale.
He claimed to be very active in the girls' lives
and was a supportive partner to Nancy, often encouraging her
to take a day off. He said that Nancy called

(40:36):
him super Dad, but her family clarified that she used
the Moniker sarcastically. Nancy's friends disputed Brad's affidavit. He was
not an active dad or a caring husband. They had
witnessed his indifference to his children and abuse of control
over Nancy, We'll be back after a break.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Nancy was well loved by her many friends. Words spread
fast about her disappearance, and her friends and community quickly organized. Land, air,
and water searches were initiated. Two thousand fliers with Nancy's
smiling face were rapidly plastered over every street, lamp, utility,
poll and shop window. White, thirty four five foot nine,

(41:21):
one hundred and twenty pounds, hazel eyes, shoulder length, brown hair,
wearing a T shirt, shorts, and blue running shoes. By Monday,
the search was in full gear. Clia's husband, Mike, was
in charge of the grassroots effort. He handed out highlighted
maps to volunteers and told them to search ten to
fifteen feet beyond the running trails through the brush and

(41:41):
tall grasses. The area grew thickly, verdant, and lush, making
it challenging. Meanwhile, Christa had driven twelve hours through the
night and arrived at the Carey police station just before
her parents' flight landed. She gave any information she could
think of to help in the search. Then she went
to see Bella and Katie, who were staying with another
friend of Nancy's, Hannah Prichard. While Brad helped in the search,

(42:05):
the little girls seemed tired, stressed, and manic. Katie, the youngest,
called Christa, Mama. Were they identical twins or your identical twins?

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I know it's heartbreaking, but it's also kind of sweet
that they had Christa, Yeah, because it was a comfort
to them. Yeah, they looked I think they were very similar.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Right soon after, Brad returned for them and tore them
away from Christa, upsetting them further. Many people noticed that
he did not seem like a husband worried about his wife. Later,
a press conference was held as the media's attention had
been piqued by the case with the Rentz family. In attendance, Gary,
Nancy's father, spoke, quote, my wife, Donna, and our family

(42:50):
are very grateful for the search that has been mounted
by the Town of Carrie police. We thank them for
a job that has been well and very sensitively done.
We thanked them for their concern, for their sensitivity, and
their support for us as a family. We are overwhelmed
by Nancy's friends for their notification of police, for the
search effort they've mounted, for their contact with our family,

(43:11):
and for the care they've extended to our grandchildren. We
have been here today to help find Nancy. We believe
that she will be brought home soon, and we thank
the community for the support they've given and we ask
that they continue in their effort to help find our daughter.
Thank you very much. Police Chief Patricia Baysmore answered questions
she believed Nancy was alive, there was no suspect, Brad

(43:35):
Cooper was cooperating with the investigation, and she believed Nancy's
disappearance was an isolated incident.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Those things are a little contradictory in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, they do seem contradictory. And what evidence would she
have to say that she believed Nancy was alive?

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I mean, she was just trying to be optimistic, right.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Another press conference was held that evening. Brad attended and
made a very brief state quote. Thanks. I don't really
have a prepared statement. I just wanted to thank all
of the hundreds of volunteers that came out and are
continuing to come out. If anyone knows anything, I just
want them to contact the police with any information they
may have. Again, thank you to everyone that continues to

(44:16):
come out and help. Thanks the police chief. Then said quote,
mister Cooper has been supportive of our work. He has
allowed us to look into the couple's home and into
both of their BMWs. We have not named a suspect
or a person of interest at this time. We still
believe Nancy is alive and we will continue to search
for her as a missing person. Brad had welcomed the

(44:38):
police into their home without a search warrant, but he
had been acting strangely. He had barely talked with Nancy's family.
They had treated him like a son and were hurt
by his aloof coldness. At seven thirty pm on Monday evening,
a man walking his dog through a subdivision still under
construction about three miles from the Cooper's home came across
a woman's body in a muddy, water filled drainage ditch

(45:01):
behind one of the unfinished houses. He had noticed vultures
circling above and decided to take a closer look. Recent
heavy rains had likely erased any footprints or tire tracks
that might have led to the scene. Near the body,
investigators found a cigarette butt and two pieces of wire.
Police Chief Bazemore personally delivered the news to the Rents

(45:22):
family at their hotel. Although the body hadn't beneficially identified,
they knew it was Nancy and they were right. The
officer who informed Brad of Nancy's death said, quote, mister
Cooper was holding his head and groaning, but I did
not see him cry. The groaning seemed a little strange
and a little forced. Brad told police that Nancy didn't

(45:44):
usually run in that area and said, quote, it just
can't be her. It can't because she was found just
outside of the city limits of Carrie in Wake County.
The Carry Police Department handed over the case to Wake
County Sheriff Donnie Harrison, who would lead the investigation, the
same man who was in charge of Michelle Young's murder
investigation in two thousand and six. Michelle and Nancy lived

(46:07):
just seven miles from each other. Wow, that's quite a coincidence.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
And I think Bella and Cassidy are almost exactly the
same age.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Okay. I mentioned that Wake County was going to be
in charge of the investigation, and they thought that at first,
But once Nancy's body was identified and they realized that
she was from Carrie, then the Carrie Police Department took
the case.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Gotcha, While they waited for the body to be identified.
Nancy's friends and family gathered at her church for a
prayer circle. Brad attended, but stood awkwardly and didn't talk
to anyone. Donna Rentz, frustrated by his reticence, approached him.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Quote.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
I walked over and I put my hand out to him,
and he took my hand, and he said nothing. So
I put my arms out to give him a hug.
He gave me a hug.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
That was it.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
He didn't talk. He didn't talk to me. When I
gave him that hug. He put his head down and
I peeked under the brim of his hat. That's when
I knew that he killed Nancy. I looked in his eyes,
and that's exactly what I felt.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
The Rents family seemed like such a kind, loving family,
like they still were trying to support Brad, but they
knew in the back of their heads. I think that, yeah,
he had something to do with her murder.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Most likely, Donna knew that Brad held the power in
this situation, and she wanted to remain supportive and friendly
to him so she could see her granddaughters. When they
asked if they could take the girls back to Canada
to avoid the glare of the media spotlight. He refused,
saying that he needed their support. The next day, the
body was confirmed to be Nancy. At another press conference,

(47:41):
Jeff Rentz, Nancy's policeman brother, spoke on behalf of the family, quote,
we cannot possibly put into words the thanks to Nancy's
many friends and the massive volunteers, both of whom are
tireless and tenacious in their efforts. The many sectors of
emergency services and law enforcement in Carrie and surrounding areas,

(48:02):
including the Wake County Sheriff's Office the Town of Carrey
Police Department, who have displayed dogged determination and the highest
degree of professionalism throughout the investigation. We regret that all
we can return for your efforts is our gratitude and
our thanks. The wheel that is our family is missing
a spoke, and while that wheel is now forever changed,
it's incumbent upon us to adapt, so we continue to spin.

(48:26):
Nancy is a mother, a daughter, a sister, and that's
how we'll keep her alive in our hearts. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Conspicuously missing from the press conference Brad Cooper. Of course,
Nancy's autopsy results weren't made public until late September. Her body,
found in a muddy, water filled ditch after several days,
had begun to decompose and required dental records for identification.
She was wearing only a sports bra, which had been

(48:53):
pushed up above her breasts. One diamond earring remained in place.
The other was missing, as was the diamond necklace that
she was known to wear daily. Her friend said she
never took it off. The autopsy revealed a fractured hyoid bone,
three red marks on the back of her neck, and
petecheal hemorrhages in her eyes, signs consistent with strangulation. There

(49:16):
were no defensive wounds or signs of sexual assault. Her
blood alcohol content was point zero six percent. Trace amounts
of caffeine were found in her system, raising the question
had she gone out for her usual morning run. Friends
noted that she often had coffee beforehand. There was only
one small piece of onion in her stomach, and her

(49:38):
friend said that she had eaten at the party. I
think she'd had like some dip and some cake and
some chips, things like that. Could she have vomited after
she was strangled? That was possible, the pathologist said, Caffeine
can stand a body for up to twelve hours, so
that doesn't mean that Nancy ran on Saturday morning. No
one at the party had seen her drink caffeine, although

(49:59):
early earlier that day she'd gone to the pool with
friends and they recalled her drinking a diet coke. Pathologist
doctor Michael Pappez wrote in the report quote, based on
the history and the autopsy findings, it is my opinion
that she died as a result of external causes homicidal violence,
most likely asphyxia by strangulation. After the autopsy results were released,

(50:23):
Carrie Police Chief Pat Baisemore said, quote, outside her family,
no group is more committed to resolving Nancy's murder than
they carry Police department, and it's been since the day
she disappeared. And Gary Wrenz, Nancy's father, said, quote, the
journey to the truth and justice can be long and arduous.
Today's news Mark's point that is particularly poignant and painful,

(50:45):
but necessary to further the evidentiary process leading to a
conviction of the person or persons responsible for Nancy's murder.
In March two thousand and eight, Nancy had hired attorney
Alice Stubbs to facilitate herdivores from Brad Cooper. With seventh thousand,
five hundred dollars borrowed from her parents, sister, and friends.
She had planned to return to her native Canada and

(51:06):
live with Christa and her husband in Toronto. After Nancy's death,
Gary Wrenz called Alice to ask her to help their
family with custody of his granddaughters. It was well known
among Nancy's friends and family that Bread was not equipped
to handle the girls on his own. He had a
history of depression, anxiety, and had allegedly attempted suicide at
least once. A neighbor had stopped by the Cooper's home

(51:28):
to check on the girls and found them undressed, hungry,
and the house in complete disarray. In their brief requesting custody,
the Renses alleged that Brad had killed Nancy and had
engaged in a pattern of emotional abuse directed towards Nancy
and the children. He frequently yelled at Nancy Cooper and
belittled her in the presence of her minor children. They

(51:50):
also alleged that he had been unfaithful in his marriage
to Nancy. He also engaged in financial abuse with holding
money from Nancy for essensial things like groceries and gas,
using her to borrow money from her family members. She
was dependent on Brad because of the green card holder,
she wasn't able to get a job. He'd hidden their
passports so they couldn't leave and returned to Canada. A

(52:11):
judge awarded temporary emergency custody to Donna and Gary Wrntz
and allowed them to take Bella and Katie back to
Canada with them. It was one small win for them,
Donna said, quote. This decision to seek custody was not
made with malice or any intent other than to support
the children.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
It's a little surprising that they let them take the
kids out of the country.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
I was a little surprised too. I think they did
a great job stating their case, and they had it
backed up with a lot of support from Nancy's friends
who had been eyewitnesses to some of their fighting and
the abuse. When police first spoke with Brad Cooper and
July twelve, the day that Nancy went missing, they noted
several concerning observations. He had small red marks or scratches

(52:54):
on the left side and back of his neck, and
a band aid on the middle finger of his left hand.
Although had spent about nine hours with officers over the
next few days, he refused to provide a formal statement,
and he never went to the police station. When a
cent tracking dog was sent to the Cooper home, Brad
gave officers one of Nancy's running shoes, but the dog

(53:15):
failed to pick up a scent and instead tried to
return inside the house. Brad had referred to two pairs
of running shoes near the garage. Is Nancy's old pair
and new pair, raising the question which pair had Nancy
worn on her run? Are scent dogs and cadaver dogs
two different.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Dogs, I believe so?

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, So I am curious why they didn't have a
cadaver dog go into the house.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Oh, to see if she had been killed in the
house potentially, okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
And also the shoes to me is kind of is
a red flag for sure. Well, yeah, if you're a runner,
and you know she runs all the time, she runs
I think long distances, So you're gonna have more than
one pair of shoes, right, But which she have had
more than two pair of running shoes at the back door?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, I wouldn't think so.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Right, and especially because he's that those are her old ones,
those are her new ones. Yeah. Brad told investigators that
after Nancy discovered his affair, she retaliated by spending forty
thousand dollars. He claimed that she blew ten thousand dollars
on a large painting of a bear that now hung
in their living room. In truth, Nancy had spent a
portion of a twenty thousand dollars gift from her parents

(54:25):
to buy the painting and applied the rest of the
gift towards paying off debt. Her parents were known for
being financially generous with her children. Brad described Nancy as
a shopaholic who could easily spend three thousand dollars in
a single day, which he said justified the three hundred
dollars a week allowane that he gave her. He also
claimed that Nancy had a drinking problem and had urged

(54:47):
her to attend Alcoholics Anonymous and commit to thirty days
without alcohol. I didn't hear anyone else mention a problem
with alcohol for Nancy. The day after Nancy's body was found,
carry police for turned to the Cooper home with a
consent to search form. Brad refused to sign it and
requested a lawyer. In response, investigators swiftly obtained a search warrant.

(55:09):
They searched the house, both vehicles, and Brad himself. Detectives
canvassed the neighborhood, but no one had seen Nancy out
running that Saturday morning, not near her home or along
the busy trail system where she often jogged. And you
would think of Saturday morning, there would be a lot
of people out there jogging. Witnesses at the barbecue the
night before Nancy's disappearance also shared troubling details. Nancy had

(55:32):
been relaxed, drinking wine and laughing with friends. At one point,
Brad grew visibly frustrated while trying to soothe their younger daughter, Katie.
What can I do, he asked. Nancy shot back, quote,
be a dad and figure it out. This is how
you can tell you're never around her. Friends laughed at
her quip, but may have cut Brad deeper than anyone realized.

(55:54):
The kids are almost two and four. Can you remember
back to those days?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Those were those are tough times, Those were tough times.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Yeah, And remember being at a party or gathering or
whatever it was, and you know, you would tag team
each other.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
But to embarrass I do feel a little bit of
empathy for Brad here because to say that in front
of their group of friends was pretty cutting.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
A little bit. Yeah, So they both of the kids
were there at that time, there one of them. He
was trying to soothe one of them.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
And I think, you know, she was probably fussy. It
sounds like it was almost, you know, bedtime. And it's
not that I don't think he knew what to do.
He was probably more like, can you take her for
a minute. Yeah, but you know, she had told him,
you're on daddy duty tonight. Yeah, you're going to handle
the kids. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
It does seem a little harsh, but at the same time,
I can imagine she was probably frustrated just with him
not being a very active parent over the you know
the course. At the last however, many years.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Police noted that both the Cooper home and garage had
recently been cleaned. Neighbors remarked that the garage was usually
so cluttered that the Coopers couldn't park their cars in it.
Brad told officers he had cleaned the house that morning,
an uncharacteristic move to put it mildly. Still, police found
the home somewhat chaotic. Overall, only specific areas appeared to

(57:13):
have been cleaned.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
That sounds a little suspicious.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, And one of these areas that was cleaned was
the trunk of Brad's BMW, which had been freshly vacuumed. Oddly,
the rest of the vehicle looked untouched, messian lived in
as you might expect from a man with two young children.
Brad explained that he had spilled gasoline in the trunk
and cleaned it out to remove the smell, but officers
didn't detect any odor of gas, and you would think

(57:36):
that would get it really hard to get that out.
His vehicle was thoroughly searched, and investigators removed the trunkliner
and steat covers for further analysis. No blood was found
in the home or either of the Cooper's vehicles. Investigators
collected thirty three items from the Cooper residents. These included
clothing such as a green dress I think that was
the dress that Nancy was wearing the night of the party.

(57:59):
A black sports brought, a red shirt, gray tennis shoes,
high heels, and flip flops, as well as household items
like a pillow and bed linens from the home office.
Police seized documents, two cameras, and three computers. A few
items stood out as especially odd. A brownish greened vegetable
material found in Brad's two thousand and one BMW, along

(58:19):
with grass, and a green plastic fragment in what appeared
to be a broken pink fingernail. Also found inside the
house was Nancy's necklace, the one that people said she
never off. On July twenty first, police searched Brad's office
at work. Several computers and storage devices were taken for
forensic analysis. Brad quickly retained two local attorneys, Howard Kurtz

(58:42):
and Seth Blum. He left the family home and went
to stay with a family friend, Scott Hider, who, in
an ironic twist, was the ex husband of Heather Mature,
the woman who Brad had on a four mouth. That
is ironic. That's where we are going to stop for today.
I have some questions for you before we go. Okay,

(59:03):
did their move to North Carolina seem rushed? And did
Brad want Nancy away from her family so he could
better control her?

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Well, it seemed very much like he was very controlling
based on the stories that we've heard, Like you said,
that was maybe only one side of the story, but
just based on all of that, like his controlling her
access to money and all those type of things, it
seems like he seems like the kind of guy who
wanted that level of control, and it probably would have

(59:33):
been something that he tried to get her away from
her family as soon as he could.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
I think the job opportunity was a good opportunity though,
so you know, maybe they just moved really just for
the job, and it was a bonus that her family
was so far away because they were in Edmonton, and
that's on the other side of Canada, right, So it's like,
I can't remember, how like forty hours to drive. Oh yeah,
it's super long drive.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Do you believe that Nancy out for a jog on
Saturday morning?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
It doesn't seem like it to me, it, you know,
obviously I'll wait to hear more of the evidence, but yeah,
my initial reaction was that they probably came back from
the party. They probably had a fight. He probably strangled
her and took her body out there in the in
the cover of darkness.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Did I forget to say that there was no evidence
of rape or any trauma to her genital region. I
don't think you said that now, Okay, So yeah, just
there was no semen. That doesn't mean that she couldn't
have been raped, but it seemed like she was naked
except for the sports bra.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Well, that makes it sound like someone tried to stage
it to look like a sexual assault when it really wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I was just going to ask you where were Nancy's clothes?

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Well, yeah, I was going to ask that. I was
going to ask you that because I was curious about
that as well. So they never found and never found
any clothing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
No, and so you've never put a sports bra on,
but sports bras are really hard to get on, even
if you're thin. You know, they're supposed to be tight
and fitting and kind of bind your breast. I'm not
sure what kind she had, but I'm guessing she probably
had like you know, the ones that you just kind
of pull them over your head, and it almost seems
like because they it was like pushed up like he

(01:01:12):
was like, oh my gosh. You know, possibly, if Brad
did murder her and was trying to make it look
like she went out for a jog, that he you know,
took her dress off that she was wearing and then
tried to put the sports bar on her and couldn't
you know, get it down all the way?

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Okay, Yeah, that could.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Be Nancy's cause of death was strangulation. And if she
was picked up by some stranger, some murderer in a van,
would they have strangled her? Would they have a weapon
with them? That's something that I was wondering about.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
It's hard to say, but the fact that her clothing
was never found like that makes me think that she
was killed her in her home. Because if you abducted
somebody running by the side of the road and killed them,
you're not going to take their clothes with you, right,
That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
So well, you're the clothes. She could have fibers on
them and things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Yeah, I suppose. It just doesn't seem very likely that
you would, you know, be that meticulous about it if
that was the case.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Yeah, And these trails, I think we're pretty busy. Depending
on where she was, I think that, you know, someone
would have seen her being pushed into a van or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
And this being in two thousand and eight, there weren't
like doorbell cameras on every house at that point, so
there was no you know, video surveillance evidence.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Nancy didn't really have defensive wounds. I think that she
was in good shape. She was a fighter. I think
that she would have had defensive wounds. There was something
underneath her fingernails, but because she had been immersed in water,
it was unable to be identified.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Okay, didn't you say something about a pink fingernail being
found somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
In his car That wasn't hers?

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
But it was a fingernail.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
That's all I know. I don't know anything more about that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
If Nancy and Brad weren't really getting along, they still
were doing things together. Like they went to the party
at the neighbor's house the night of Nancy's death, like this.
The next night, they had some friends that were supposed
to come over for a game night. So that was
a little strange to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Yeah, that is a little weird. I would think once
you've decided you're getting a divorce, you would kind of
live separate lives in some ways, you know, only working
together for the kids or things like that. But otherwise, Yeah,
why would you want to spend time together?

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
So Nancy's BAC was point zero six. Point zero eight
is the point when you're not supposed to operate a
votor vehicle. Yeah, so what does that tell you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Well, that tells me that she was killed, not a
super long time after the party, like her body had,
you know, maybe metabolized a little bit of the alcoholic system.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
But not much of it, right, And would she have
gone running the next morning if her alcohol no BAC
was still.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Point zero sell, definitely not.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
The last thing I want to mention is that Nancy
was given this three hundred dollars a week allowance that
was in two thousand and eight, adjusted for inflation in
twenty twenty five, that's about four hundred and fifty dollars
a week. We've been married a long time and we've
had different, i don't know how to say it, like
different budgets, and I think at one point we did

(01:04:12):
try like some sort of envelope system where we were like, well,
this is what we're going to spend and four hundred
and fifty dollars. Like I am not trying to defend Brad,
don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure like putting
the accounts in his name and taking away her credit
cards definitely is abusive.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Right, not cool? The four hundred and fifty dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
A week Small's I feel like that's okay amount like
today because I think groceries have definitely skyrocketed. I don't
even want to tell people how much we spent on groceries.
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
So I guess it depends on what that money was for.
But if it was just for like four trees and
kind of regular.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think she had to pay any bills.
He was paying the bills, so yeah, you know, I
seem that bad. I mean, yeah, but she is a
grown woman and she should have access to a bank account.
But if you know, if you have forty thousand dollars
of credit card debt that you're trying to whittle down,
I mean, you definitely do have to rain in your spending.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Yeah, for sure. And sometimes when you say like an allowance,
it sounds like, okay, here, I'm it sounds degrading. Yeah,
it sounds like I'm in control and I'm letting you
spend this amount of money. But you know, we don't
know for sure if it was if that was the situation,
or if it was just sort of like their budget, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
I think it was more of a control issue, so
it was more I think he was definitely trying to
limit her spending. I'm not sure if he was trying
to limit his own spending as well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, okay, we'll put.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
A pin in it and we'll come back next time.
A right, There's still a lot to go in this case.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
I'm looking forward to hearing how this plays out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
I think about this all the time because it happens
a lot in all the cases that we do. But
I would be mortified if the police had to take
my phone and look through my Google searches, look through
my you know, text messages.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
And I think most of us would be.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
I'm just wondering, what are some of the We're all
friends here, no one's judging. It's a safe place, right,
what are some of the most embarrassing things that you've googled?
You can do it, you can answer, Come on.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
I mean, most of my searches on Google are really
dumb and mundane things. There are things like we're having
a conversation about something and I'm like, oh, I wonder
about that. I wonder I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Wonder if I can prove my my wife.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Yeah, most it's most it's about proving your Yeah, for sure,
is there a.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Wrong way to park? Because they always make fun of
you for being a mad parker.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
I am not a good parker.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
You're a fine parker. But anyway, I was googling that.
I was googling, like, what are like dumb things to google?
And I found a list from Men's Health magazine.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
But you were googling dumb things to google?

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Yeah, well, you know, I think most our most embarrassing
searches are like, what is this bump on my body?
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
I know your most embarrassing searches are searching for your
the guy that you had a crush on in high school?

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Thank you? So you know if you say his name, like,
I will walk out of here and never podcast again.
So good call on.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
I'm sure he's probably listening.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
He's probably not over me either, exactly. So give me
a state and I'll give you some of the embarrassing
Google search ice state.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Well, Well, let's start with Michigan.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Okay, Michigan Bigfoot evidence, pyramid scheme, Little Caesar's lou Piga
Mambo number five.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Okay, that's a really odd assortment of things. But yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Know we have a lot of listeners from Texas. So
Matthew McConaughey, Oh no, sorry, Matthew McConaughey quotes Jade Helm, Pimp, Juice, Extends, Pills,
hot Dog, Pizza, Crust, CCS, Pizza Buffet, Skunkcare, porn is
w we reel and contract killing. Oh my, okay, utah,

(01:08:04):
just because that's right next the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Way, I really want to know what hot Dog pizza
trust is.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Well, you're going to have to google. I'm going to
video game addiction, Unicorn pictures, Razor, Scooter, Mustache, Dilbert, traditional marriage,
bronnis b R O N I E S.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
And that was utah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Wow, yeah, these are just really silly. Yeah, Minnesota Frisbee Golf,
Fantasy Golf, hot caral.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Hot Carl. I'm sure we're gonna have a lot of
listeners sending us notes telling us what all these things are, like,
oh yeah, hot Carl, that's this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Is, you know, Georgia herpies, wors Sawyer meth recipe. Here
comes honey Boo boo athletes foot well the South ever Rise.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Meth recipe. That's too much like you know, well where
are you going to find your recipe for meth? Their Internet?

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Delaware is just Newark Girls, Arkansas Lunchables Hotel, California, Chords Hotel, California, Lyrics,
nineteen Kids Encounting Toddlers and Tiars and Josh Duggar. Arizona
is Obama American North Carolina. Where is the Internet? Where

(01:09:20):
the Nicholas Sparks, New York, Donald Trump, Hugh Grant, Magic Lessons,
shake Weight, Snuggle Sutra, Amidia and Gweth.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Pultrow, Chlamydia and Gwyneth Paltrow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Separate, oh New Jersey, Ashley Madison, Pubic Lies, Jonas Brother
Lyrics and Frosted Tips. I guess we'll put this in
our I think it's arbitrary. It's not like these are
the Yeah, it's not like the most searched thing. But
a couple of few states here have have lunchables, so.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Are very popular in a lot of places.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
I think we used to be a long time ago.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
But it sounds like people people want them or they
want to know more about them.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Well, last thing before we go, I haven't given you
much time to talk about sports lately. And talk about sports, no,
maybe you need to talk about it publicly and get
some support. Maybe there's a support group for you to
spread to the Tiger fans, have it by the time
this actually this is going to release on Monday. So
how big is They're losing streak right now?

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
They've lost I think they've lost nine out of the
last ten games. And they were they were they had
the best record in baseball.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
I know, you told me every five minutes pretty much.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
I know, and like all of a sudden, it just
they went from being the best team in baseball to
being a terrible team like overnight, which you know, losing
streaks happen. It's to be expected.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
But it's well thoughts bad, well thoughts to all the
Detroit Tigers fans. I'm sure they will. I just have
a little bit of a slump just because they're you know,
kind of refocusing and getting their energy back.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
Yes, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Have you watched that Netflix show I told you about,
the one about the I think it's about the quarterback
or no, I have not had the time. Well maybe
over vacation. Yeah, you can watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
We could all watch it together as a family.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
They're gonna say collectively, the Love Mary Kill family.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Oh yeah, we could all it's about the Lions, right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
I think it's called Quarterback, so I don't know if
it's just about I assume it's about the whole team.
I don't know. I haven't watched it. Okay, all right,
well that's all we have for today. If you would
like to listen to the conclusion of this episode, please
join us on Patreon. Go to patreon dot com slash
Love Mary Kill. For five dollars a month. You got

(01:11:37):
early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
And while we would love for you to join our
Patreon program and stay with us forever and ever, if
you just want to hear part two of this episode,
we're going to try something new. Patreon has now made
it possible for us to just offer a single episode
and have you just pay for that episode. So we're
going to put part two up. We're going to make
it three dollars. If you want to listen to part

(01:12:02):
two without joining our patron just go to patreon dot
com slash Love Mary Kill and you'll see the episode
there and the pricing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
And you'll just be able to buy one episode at
a time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
That is my understanding. We're going to give it a try, right,
we'll see how it works out well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Thank you, as always for your support and for hanging
out with us and listening. We appreciate it so much.
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media,
or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com.
And if you're a YouTube person, please subscribe to our
YouTube channel. Rich is putting together some awesome videos over there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Awesome maybe overstating it a little bit, but I am
putting together some videos over there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Even if you don't listen to us over there, if
you could subscribe, it would really help us out. We
would appreciate it a ton, and as always, thank you
so much for all your encouragement and your support and
your messages on Spotify. We both really love hearing what
you guys think about the cases that we cover. We
appreciate it so much.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
We do, and thanks so much Tina from Dexter for
recommending this case.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
Until next time, don't kill your eyes and don't kill
your wife.

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Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 1

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 1