Ep 064 The Outdoor Artisan Scott Cohen

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:00):
Hello everybody.
Welcome to the poolsideperspectives podcast.
I am Kevin Woodhurst and with me is mygood friend, Mike Farley, and we're so
glad you found this podcast together.
We have been homeowner advocatesand outdoor living and the pool
industry for over 30 years.
So we understand the challenges youface creating your backyard paradise.
We know your curiosity is notenough to ensure your success.

(00:21):
So on this podcast, we're going to talkabout the design process and practical
steps to help you create that space.
We'll have some fun mixed in with it.
Some aha moments.
And this is no fluff.
No one has time for that.
So we're going to get serious and getvery particular about all of these topics.
Whether you are a new homeowner with yourfirst remodel or a seasoned homeowner

(00:41):
competing your last dream home, we arehere to help you end up with what you
dreamed of from pools to patios, pizza,ovens, to pergolas, porcelain, to pumps.
Pool Party to Permits, Ping Pong Tablesto the Processes to your Paradise.
This is Straight Talk and Action Steps.
Let's get started.

Mike (01:05):
So happy holidays from poolside perspective podcast.
We thought we'd get in the mood withthe studio here and the stockings
all hung with care and everything.
We just wanted to wish you guys aMerry Christmas and happy holidays.

(01:26):
We've got great episode thisweek, but any fun things that
took place for you this week?

Trey (01:32):
I didn't watch the game, but they won.
The Cowboys won, and I'm wearing a CowboysSanta hat, so getting into the holiday
spirit right now, but was exciting.
It was a real layback weekend for me.
It was pretty cold, but Ididn't know where we got to go.
A little warm flash, buthopefully it's cold soon again.
I like the cold.

Mike (01:48):
Well, If we're going to ski in January, it's got to get cold somewhere.

Trey (01:51):
Yeah.
It needs to snow somewhere, soit's not going to snow here, but.
We'll go where it snows.

Mike (01:56):
Hopefully.
So was a great, puppydeliveries were completed.
So we're down to by thetime we get home, it's one.

Trey (02:05):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Cool.
They're

Mike (02:07):
all gone.
They're forever homes.
And we finally were able to get ourChristmas lights up, which is quite
a production at the Farley residence.
So we really get into a Christmaslights probably because of all the
oak trees in front of the house.
So we hang these huge lightedChristmas balls on them.
Yeah.

Trey (02:24):
Giant Christmas ornaments.
You got it light up.
Y'all do the crazy, do the music,turn it to a specific radio station
and music along with your lights.

Mike (02:33):
No our lights don't dance or anything like that.
It's just, These balls are about18 inches around and there's about
40 of them hanging from the trees.
So 80

Trey (02:44):
up feet in the air?

Mike (02:45):
Yeah.
Not 80 feet in the air.
They're pretty high upThey're high up there.
Maybe 40.
Anyway, we throw a baseball with a fishingline tied to it and over the branches
and hoist them all up all the time.
So it's a lot of fun.
So maybe we'll include a picture ofthe Farley crazy Christmas lights.
But speaking of crazy our guestthat's going to be here this week is

(03:07):
someone that has been in the industrya long time and he has a lot of fun.
So there's no telling what wewill get into today with Scott.
He's here, so we mightas well jump over to him.
we'll go from there.
Howdy, sir.
Hello.
Hello.
How are you?
You're looking very fit and tan.
I just got back from Nevis.

(03:28):
Yes.
Was that a fun adventure?

Scott (03:31):
It was a fun adventure.
You know, I was there withthe folks from Hayward pools.
And there's nothing more fun for my wifethan to hang out with, 300 pool builders
who like to talk about pools, right?

Mike (03:42):
Yes.
Laura gets to do that alot of times too, also.
So but at least you get todo it in a great setting.
Yeah.

Scott (03:50):
Oh, yeah, it was.
Yeah, great time.
It was really actually very nice.
I've never been there.
I never even heard of it before.
I have never heard of it.
Yeah, it's in the British Virgin Islands area.
It's across from St.
Kitts.
And our final trip, and we had to takethree planes to get there, and the last
plane was a one of those puddle hoppers,
you know, like.

(04:10):
hold six people, but therewere seven in our plane.
Oh.
One of them sat as co pilot, and thething's going eh, eh, eh, you know, crazy.

Mike (04:18):
Today, what we are allowed to do is learn from your wisdom that you
have from all your experiences causeyou've been at this about as long
as I have, which there's it's funny.
We used to be the youngguys in the industry.
It's always interesting totalk to somebody about how
they got to where they're at.
So do you mind sharing ? Howdid that journey begin?

Scott (04:41):
Josh, I grew up in the landscape business.
My parents had a fertilizingand chemical care business.
And I grew up in the summers, riding mybicycle to the office to get a summer
job, answering the phones and talking topeople about plants and flowers and how
to kill weeds in their lawn and treatingtrees for insects and that sort of thing.

(05:01):
learned it quite a bit.
then I got a real jobworking for Target stores.
I was working in the nurserylearning a little bit about
horticulture and plants and caringfor those and the nursery business.
Really enjoyed Christmas treelots, loved working the tree lots.
That's a great time.
Everybody's in a good mood whenthey're buying a tree, and have
everybody yelling about anything.
So that's, that was a lot of fun.

(05:22):
And I eventually ended uprunning all the nurseries in L.
A.
and Ventura County for the DaytonHudson Corporation for Target stores.
And I was the youngest execthey had in the country.
they actually used to call methe Jewish Christmas tree King.
I sold more Christmas trees infour weeks than anybody had.
I love that part of the business.
So I really did enjoy that.
that's why I ended up landscape.

Mike (05:43):
when I was in college, I had a landscape maintenance business.
I had two employees when I was 18 andI sold it went to work for a nursery
because I was studying landscapearchitecture and I figured landscape
architects need to know plants.
Little did I find outlater on that was not true.
You didn't have to learn asmany as I thought you had to.
But to get the job, I wentto work in their tree lot.

(06:07):
That was how I got oninitially in November.
And they said that they were goingto keep one guy, one of the part
time guys from the tree lot to stayfor and work in the garden center
with the fertilizer and insecticidesand all that stuff afterwards.
And was able to sell moreChristmas tree stands and.
Trees and all that stuffand everybody else.

(06:27):
And so I got to stay and then eventuallyended up in the landscape division.
So

Scott (06:32):
it's a similar story.
I left out the two years where I had myown gardening business that I called Dr.
Scott's landscape maintenance.
I don't know why I thought it was adoctor, but that's what I called it.
And I was doing greatuntil I had to leave.
For a couple weeks on a vacationand left the business in with a
different, a friend of mine, andhe just destroyed it in two weeks.

(06:54):
So that's when I had to go workfor target stores after that.

Mike (06:57):
So I got lucky with my two employees.
They took care of me when I took offrunning all over the place and backpacking
and all that stuff in the mountains.
anyway, yes, similar story.
So went to work aftertarget with your dad?

Scott (07:09):
the green scene, yeah, it was primarily a chemical care business,
and they had a landscape division,and the landscape division guy split,
so they needed a landscaper, and soI'd made a deal with my family that
I would leave Target and go workwith the family business and that's
what I did, that was 35 years ago.
I worked with family for 10 years, itwas miserable we really did not get along.

(07:34):
I'm a designer and he's a chemicalengineer he wanted to spray more chemicals
and I wanted to design landscapes andthe subcontractors that we were working
with at the time were so infuriating.
When it came to hardscapes andswimming pools, and so I found myself
involved in every single aspect ofthe construction on the swimming pool.

(07:56):
And if I had to be there for layout, andI had to be there for the excavation,
I had to be there for the steel, andI had to follow up on the shotcrete,
and I need to make sure the lightswere placed in the right place.
There was no reason tosubcontract it anymore.
yeah, I had my landscape contractorslicense and I just added my full
contractor's license and thenmy general contractor's license.
Yeah, I carry all three now.

Mike (08:17):
So as a designer are you doing more landscape work or pool
work or is it all encompassing?

Scott (08:26):
I personally think it has to be all encompassing.
I don't see the division.
I know there's a lot of guys out therewho just do the swimming pool part
of it, or they just do the hardscapepart of it, but it's kind of like
saying, here, I want you to paint thispicture for me, but I only want you
to use three colors, can't do that.
There's too many different aspects to it.
And the swimming poolis one element for sure.

(08:46):
But the reflective water can show off.
This particular tree lit a certainway can look great from this angle,
but that tree has to have theright texture and the right color.
And it has to be atthe right time of year.
That's blooming in order for that effect.
I'll come about.
And so I think good backyard designinvolves the landscape, the hardscape.

(09:07):
Certainly the swimming pool, butthe structures and lighting too, I
think it plays a major part in it.

Mike (09:12):
a hundred percent.
That's probably the part that's growingeven more and more in our industry.
Is lighting.
People are understanding the capabilitiesof how much you can affect a space.
And that, people are at home at nightmuch more than they are at night.
During the daytime for a lot of families,

Scott (09:31):
especially as these projects get more expensive.
They have to work longerhours to pay for them.
Yeah, a lot of folks only see theiryards at night, unfortunately.
And it's really important becauselighting allows you to highlight
things you want to show off, but italso gives you an opportunity to hide
the things you don't want to see.
So you can paint a completelydifferent picture at night

(09:52):
than you have during the day.

Trey (09:53):
Oh yeah.

Scott (09:54):
Yeah, and some of the new lights that we have in the whole
industry, like being able to use someof these led, you strip lights and
things in the water and submersedcreates a whole new area of lighting.
I mean, We're home all kindsof opportunities that we
really didn't have before.
If someone has a few dollars in theirbudget to be able to spend for it,

Mike (10:12):
company, for 35 years.
I've followed your work for a long time.
And one of my favorite projects that youdid a long time ago was a pirate ship
that you did in somebody's backyard.
And I remember that the dinghy wasthe spa from a shape standpoint.

(10:32):
You've done some really creativethings over the years, which, people.
All that stuff's not on your website.
the question that I have is howhave you developed your design
style over a period of time?
Because it's changed.

Scott (10:46):
First off, my title of the office here is garden artisan.
Okay.
I am not just president ofgreen scene or what have you.
It's garden artisan.
I like to be able to use the differenthobbies and skills in different ways.
So that particular project thatyou're talking about I took a couple
of years of ceramics in college.
Okay.
that's all I took in college, by the way.

(11:07):
But it was ceramics classand we did a lot of casting.
And we built molds and I threw potteryand I did a lot of sculpture now at home,
my garage is a ceramic studio and I havemy own kilns and I can make my own tiles
for swimming pools and casting molds.
What we did with that ship is weactually created, what you would do

(11:27):
nowadays for foam board concrete.
We built that part of the boatand then just shot created up
against it and then using acidchemical stains and waterproofing.
we tinted it.
So it looked like an old boat.
It was funny because when the startupguy got there, he called me up.
He's like, Hey, man, you can'tuse real wood on this stuff.
The chemicals are gonna eat this alive.
I don't know who told you thisand that blah, blah, blah, blah.

(11:49):
He was laying into me like,dude, just go tap on it.
That's not real wood.
And he was laughing and Iwas laughing about it too.
Cause that's a great compliment
but it's like when, with the ceramicstuff, I cast one of my clients they
wanted a bronze kind of mermaid fortheir side yard, a fountain feature.
And she says, but they're just so ugly, Isaid, oh we can cast you as the mermaid.

(12:11):
Just one.
I said, yeah, if you're coolbeing topless, I can cast you as
the mermaid and the whole thing.
And they're like, yeah, let's do that.
So they're probably wonderingwhy I had to be naked at the same
time, but, it's my hobby, right?
But I actually cast her face andthen I cast her upper body topless.
And then I wrapped her legs inSaran wrap to create the tail.
And then I hand sculpted as a seven footlong ceramic tile mermaid in four pieces.

(12:37):
And I made seashell covers for the breastswhen they accompany over and that's what
I got to keep it, PG when you need to andI glazed the whole thing in a patina glaze
made it look like an old bronze sculpture.
It's pretty cool.

Mike (12:49):
That is really cool.

Scott (12:50):
Now, the sad part of that story, is that once we put it up The
clients no children of their own, butthey had Christmas party and their
13 and 14 year old nephews came over.
well like, 13 and 14year old boys would do.
They're on the side, you're playingwith the boobies and somebody realizes,
hey, these are aunt boobies andthey're running through the house.
Could I touch the entire movies like this?

(13:11):
And that sculpture rathercame out with a sledgehammer.
The following week, it was, there was noway to take it out it was epoxy in place.
It was, oh, so sad.
It took me five months to sculpt that

BBQ Bits (13:24):
We're going to take a break here for a second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we liketo go to barbecue bits here.
We're going to share some informationof everything that you may want to
consider in your outdoor living space.
As far as features,especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.

Mike (13:43):
In some cases, the cabana is already built.
There's no heaters.
They decided they weren't goingto put a heater in because they
didn't think they needed one.
Or, the other situation is theydidn't have the amperage to pull
the heater off, or they didn'twant to do the gas runs to it.
This would be the solution?

Bobby (14:04):
This is the option.
So, We do have dead spaces on porches.
There's always for heating opportunities.
This fulfills that need.
This is an amazing heater.
It's really popular.
The old mushroom heaters that you wouldsee, you would go out and have a nice
glass of wine under, those are passe.
They're the thing of the past.
This is what you're seeing nowyou'll see it if you're in Fort
Worth, if you go to the Drury Hotel,or if you go to the Velvet Taco in

(14:27):
Southlake you'll see these heaters.
They cover a 16 by 13uh, footprint pattern.

Mike (14:32):
Wow.

Bobby (14:32):
That allows 215 square feet of heating.
That's direct body.
It's infrared heat.
Another value added pieceis the heat shield on top.
This gives me a fourteen inch tolerance.
I can be up a nine foot ceiling underneaththis and this will protect the heat.
As far as the combustion zoneto keep it away from that.

(14:53):
That's

Mike (14:53):
So is there a tank under here?
Is that how that works?

Bobby (14:57):
So there, it comes in natural gas or it comes in propane.
The body is really slender, sexy looking.
It doesn't look like a tankwould fit in there, but it does.
There's a tank door on the backside.
The tank would actuallygo inside of the unit.
I think customers ask us,Hey, how long do they last?
Anywhere from 12 to 14 hours on a tank.

Mike (15:17):
Okay.
So nice.
Several nice evenings out by thethe grill and the dining area.

Bobby (15:23):
Also, if you have drop screens and you have a small footprint porch, it's
hard to get gas up underneath that porchand have drop screens just because we have
to worry about carbon monoxide poisoning.
So this becomes a mobile solution.
I can lift those screens up.
I can mobilize these units to thatdefined area where I want to entertain at.
When I'm done, I can shut themoff and put them back into the to

(15:45):
the corners and things like that.

Mike (15:46):
Is this difficult to move?

Bobby (15:48):
It is not.
It's very, it has two wheels in the back.
Glad you mentioned that.
Very robust, heavy wheels.
It just tilts on his back.
The tank can be in therealso when you do that.
And it's very mobile.
You can move it from point A to point B.

Mike (16:01):
So the perfect thing for this fall, winter and spring.

Bobby (16:03):
Absolutely.

Mike (16:04):
Awesome.
Appreciate it.

Bobby (16:06):
Yeah,

Mike (16:06):
thank you.

BBQ End (16:07):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we'll get back into the episode now.

Trey (16:21):
So my dad said that you had some projects on HDTV back in the
day and I'm trying to it together.
So you worked with yourfamily for 10 years.
So wouldn't that happen?
And can you talk aboutthat experience in general?
Cause content creation nowadays is huge.
Everyone does it.
But back in the day,that's ahead of its time.
And you see HDTV do a lotof projects these days.
And a lot of our customers watch thatwhen they're trying to get in the process

(16:44):
of figuring out what they actually want.

Scott (16:47):
I guess the 1st show I did with HGTV was called landscapers challenge
and I did that when I was 30 years old.
So that's 28 years ago.
Okay.
And of course, we won thelandscapers challenge.
And then I did a show with them calledproperty buzz, which was the latest on
property trends and things outdoors.
And then we did outdoordesign for the sexes.

(17:08):
They had a special series ondesigning outdoors for the sexes,
which was fun to be part of.
I worked for a couple that werewriters for the Barney show.
Now you're too young to knowwho Barney is, but Mike's not.
they had no children of their own,so it was odd that they were writing
these children's stories with no kids.
that was a fun one.
Was it a purple pool?
I think we did fix, what's that?

(17:30):
Did they have a purple pool?
. No, we did a spa only there, nopurple pool, but I did get a signed
autographed picture from Barney, whichI gave to my daughter Kenzie, who
was at the time so excited about it.
And if she heard me talk aboutit now, it'd be so horrified.
I said that was the

Trey (17:46):
end

Scott (17:46):
of the suit when he signed it, or was I didn't see him sign I
just got the picture handed to me.
We did a top 10 pools show withthem called big splash with HGTV
is countdown and we had threeprojects featured on that show.
That was fun.
And then we did a show called getout way out and this was interesting
cause they followed my teams forabout three years and we did 11

(18:08):
or 12 episodes of get out way out.
And these were over the top projects.
We were working mostly in Calabasasand they were, 60 foot slides
swim up bars infinity edgepools rim flow pools earlier than
we were seeing them anywhere else.
And it was really fun tobe part of that process.
And we enjoyed doing that.
And then 2009, I think the economyslowed down a bit they didn't want

(18:31):
to show three or four or 500, 600,800, 000 projects on television.
Then they're like, Scott,what do you got for us?
It's under a hundred thousand dollars.
Ooh, don't have much.
Not that has a pool in it.
No,

Trey (18:45):
that's funny.
Cause you'd think it'dbe the other way around.
Like you'd think they would wantto see something that's unattained.
I don't know.
That's,

Scott (18:51):
They were starting to get that feedback online, people
would be like, Oh, this is greatfor rich people in California.
But what about the rest of us?
Yeah,
I think it was Mike Farley.
It was making those comments at the time.
no,

Mike (19:02):
No, back in oh, eight.
No, nine is during the recession.
That's when I got to do some of my first.
Really fun work because the peoplethat I worked with still had money.
That's nice.
Yeah.

Scott (19:14):
Yeah.
we had some pinch time duringthat time, but that was fine.
We had backlogs from the yearsbefore us that worked out
all but that was fun program.
And Continued working with them,I think, in a show called ground
rules and then we did cool pools.
And I think that's whenwe 1st got to see Mike.
Yes.
Mike and I on the same programs with pools.
And then I think that wasfollowed by ultimate pools.

(19:35):
And then I don't know if you'vedone any of the bodacious backyard
programs, but we did some of those.

Mike (19:40):
North Texas and California is little different too.
That's true.
Yeah.

Scott (19:43):
We set the trends in That's exactly

Mike (19:45):
right.
Yeah.

Scott (19:46):
You guys you're not wearing a hammer man pants and jelly shoes
anymore, but that's all started here.
you know, The television stuff was fun.
And it really did help us get creative.
We certainly found some clients thatwanted to be part of doing something
special and that helped grow our business.
It also hurt our business too.
Because people just naturallyassume that you were very expensive

(20:08):
just because you're on TV thathad nothing to do with it.
We price our work based on what weneed to in order to provide quality
materials and stand behind our work.
But think there was definitelypros and cons to it.
But it was fun, It's fun to doit with the TV and the staff and
everybody gets a little bit of youget some accolades for being on TV.

Mike (20:27):
Oh, sure.
and the clients enjoy it being able toshow what fun things that they've done.
I think it's a great thing forbuilding dreams for people's
backyards is just to be able to see.
What's different.
So it's just, for sure industry haschanged so much in the time we both
got started about the same time in it.

(20:48):
And when I first started, we weredoing just swimming pools and now we
build resorts, and people's backyards.
It's not just a pool.
In fact, I've got lots of clientswho are like, I'll never swim in it.
This is a piece of art.
This is a place to hangout with our friends.
This is a place to be social.
We don't swim, Mike.
It's like, okay, a problem.

(21:09):
I'll create whatever works best for you.
One of the things that I know you'vewritten a number of books as well.
You're a Renaissance man.
You've done all kinds of different things.
But the one thing that I've alwaysenjoyed and going to classes that
you've taught is on outdoor kitchensCan you share, your thought process

(21:29):
on, is that an important part of thebackyard or is it just something you
put in this kind of a little nichething that's over here in the corner?
How do you talk to your clientsabout outdoor kitchens in
that space that you create?

Scott (21:41):
the books written over the years have come about from quite frankly,
just being frustrated, trying to learnhow to do it myself as I was coming up
through the industry is like, where's allthis information on now for a kitchen?
can't find it.
You find more, how do

Mike (21:56):
you find more on outhouses or tree ports?
yes where's this information at?
I, Same challenge

Scott (22:03):
It's crazy and the same thing outdoor fireplaces,
fire pits, how to build them.
I can't find the information anywhere.
Where is it?
And after cast concrete countertops,nobody was doing them yet the time
when we started writing those books.
And so I think we have 8 books outaltogether now, headscaping and pool
scapes and can a contractor, whichis all about construction defects.

(22:25):
Outdoor kitchens is one of my favoritethings to design and it's the same thing
going back to Christmas trees, right?
Because when people are out at thebarbecue, they're there to have a good
time, I'm sure Mike this is what all ofour designs come down to Fundamentally
is you're designing space for peopleto Entertain hang out as a family and

(22:45):
enjoy each other And you can't saywhat we're going to do is we're just
going to talk and eat, but that'sreally what the clients are doing.
They're not swimming in the pools.
They're not getting laps in.
they're eating and they'redrinking in the backyard.
And so we create these environmentsand these outdoor rooms.
where people can hang out andeat and drink and tell stories

(23:08):
and share life's experiences.

Mike (23:10):
About making memories.

Scott (23:11):
That's it.
it really is a good time.
And when you're around food, , andfire, that goes back fundamentally
to the beginning of man, right?
We sat around the fire,it was time to eat.
We told stories and that's whatwe're building in backyards
today, the outdoor kitchen.
Or barbecue counter or whateveryou want to call it, right?
We call it barbecuing here inCalifornia, but most of the

(23:32):
time we're really just grilling.
And I know people make fun of us here inCalifornia for lots of reasons, including
our politics, a lot of people are justreally grilling and then I like to try to
get my clients a little bit more involvedin really barbecuing low and slow with
a lot of smoke and that sort of thing.
Get them out there and get themenjoying whole cooking process.
The outdoor kitchen is thecentral hub of the backyard.

(23:54):
No matter what you do, peoplehang out around the food.
When you have company over you can putout potpourri and candles and appetizers
and things all over your house.
And they're in the kitchen,
right?
They're just hanging out in the kitchen.
It's always a problem.
Get out of the kitchen.
Go.
I had to clean the whole house for you.
Everybody was in a panicbefore you came over.

(24:14):
I had to clean the whole house they're inthe kitchen and it's just human behavior.
And I think fundamentally, 1 ofthe things that I've learned in
designing backyard space or any spacereally is not to fight human nature.
Instead of trying to fight it orforce people to be in a certain
area, just acknowledge that thisis how people like to entertain.
This is how they like to hang out.

(24:35):
Sometimes clients will tell me theywant this giant patio with a big area
for lots of tables and chairs, butthat's not how people really entertain.
They almost always breakinto smaller groups.
Of six to eight, and tella story about the deal.
They got a Costco or talk about politicsor tell a joke or what have you, but
they need to be in smaller groups.

(24:55):
So I create different outdoor roomswhere there's people can go to hang out.
And that's the naturalway people entertain

Mike (25:03):
a hundred percent.
so you're going to have a kitchen areyou going to create dining spaces and
like the fire pit area and everything'sthat kind of revolve around that
is that when you say it's the hub.

Scott (25:15):
People hang out by the food, so think you want to make sure that your
kitchen area has lots of flow around it.
People can get up, it'stries my wife nuts.
When we get to a party.
And it's an outdoor backyardor something like that.
I'll stand in the corner forjust a moment and scan the
space and I'm checking it out.
And it drives me nuts when there'ssituations set up where you're carrying

(25:36):
a plate and you get a drink andyou've got to back up through a crowd.
That's just poor planning.
like to be make sure there's plentyof flow through around that area.
this, we're going to set up the foodis we're going to set up the bartender.
These are conversations thatshould be had ahead of time.
Understanding how much yourclient's going to entertain.
Some people don't have that manypeople over, but if they're going

(25:57):
to have a lot of people over, then.
Let's make sure we're accommodatingthem with plenty of counter space
lots of lighting where they're goingto be entertaining, make sure they
have the appliances that they needto have to accommodate larger groups.
And I think you got to becareful not to bottleneck, right?
So if you have your outdoor kitchenas the central hub, your fire
feature becomes a go to destination.

(26:19):
That's an area where I might stepaside and go to that area separately.
I might even have my cigar smokersover there, not next to the food
and
dining, of course, needs to be close to the outdoor
kitchen, but not block the flowfrom the indoors to the outdoors

Mike (26:36):
barbecuing, do you have a favorite feature that you like to
incorporate for them to barbecue with?
Or are you just trying to getan idea of what they might want
on their appliance list or whatdo you see as popular features?
Today, because it's changedagain, a lot, it used to be,
give me a grill and that was it.
And today we get into allkinds of different things.

(26:57):
What's popular in Californiain the outdoor kitchen?

Scott (27:01):
You really need a client that's willing to go out there and expand their
horizon a little bit and not just grill.
Not just use a stainless steel grill.
I like to encourageclients to rotisserie cook.
I think using a rotisserie is oneof the best ways to entertain.
How many times have you had company overand you're cooking on the grill and you're
cooking on the grill and you're doingall this and I turn around everybody's

(27:21):
gone, they ate the food and they're gone.
I had several jokes.
I was going to tell I didn'teven get around and tell him that
day because everybody's gone.
And so rotisserie cooking is what I liketo do when I have people over and I try
to encourage my clients to try to allyour food prep is done ahead of time.
It's all season.
Everything's going at a time.
I can put it on a low smoke.
I had the grill that I have hasan interior gear driven motor.

(27:44):
So it
doesn't have that box sitting on the side and it's a commercial grill.
So it'll handle 120 pounds on the spit.
So I might cook some turkey.
cooked turkeys this lastThanksgiving, spun those on a smoker.
But I'll cook turkey breast or filetsor whatever on the rotisserie and
I'll put it on smoke for just a couplehours first and now human nature, like

(28:05):
it or not, when you smell cooking.
You start to salivate a little bit.
You start to get excited about it.
And now this is two hours beforeI'm going to serve it, maybe more.
And then about maybe 45 minutesto an hour before it's ready to
serve, I'll put the heat on therotisserie, not just the smoke.
and now everybody's excited about it.
And when it comes out,it's always near perfect.

(28:27):
So I like to get peoplecooking on the rotisserie.
I like a lot of these, What I'll calldome grills or I'll call them big
green eggs or something equivalent.
Komodo style cooking whereyou're cooking in a large pot
with lump coal on the bottom.
This is great for cooking pizzas.
You don't have to spend10, 000 on a pizza oven.
You can throw some wood chips an eggand get an authentic wood fired pizza

(28:51):
oven flavor pizza for the cost of ahand of wood chips, it's fun, too.
I think that's part of it.
When you cook pizzas at home,that's a great way to entertain
and get families involved.
I don't know about yourhousehold, but I've got four
daughters, I got a vegetarian.
I got a pescatarian.
She only eats a little pez candies.

(29:11):
I got uh, Black lactose intolerant one.
I had, this one doesn't eatmeat, but it sometimes does.
But sometimes, it's gettinghard to feed these people.

Mike (29:20):
I'm lucky.
Mine are all carnivores.

Scott (29:23):
Yeah.
And sometimes when you have company over,somebody doesn't need cheese or somebody,
so I like the pizza because here you go.
Here's a half a roll of doughor whatever you're rolling out.
Put whatever you want on it, and then wecan cook it and drink some wine and tell
some stories and we can have some fun.
that's one of the things I reallylike to see people use their outdoor
kitchens for is their own pizza party.

(29:45):
And my girls have all gone to collegeand graduated, but when they come
home hey, can we do a pizza party?
So it's a memory they have from beingyounger and they really enjoy it.

Mike (29:55):
mine always want me to cook ribs.
pizza is much faster.
It is.
Do you ever use a Santa Maria girl?

Scott (30:02):
Santa Maria.
We went through a phase of SantaMaria grills about 20 years ago.
Yeah, a couple years ago, I justinstalled couple, nice Santa Maria
style grills client needs to be into thebarbecue, you know, in order to do that.
And when you find that client,there's certainly room for him.
And they sure look a lot better thanthey did when we first installed.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I did 1 had a.

(30:24):
No, I didn't say it's 20 years agoand what we did is we built an outdoor
fireplace for the client and we puta Santa Maria style grill inside the
fireplace and it went up into the firebox and it just had a crank on the side.
So you could crank it up justuse the smoke from whatever was
cooking below or put more woodenunderneath it it was a lot of fun.
The client really enjoyedit and it was a novelty.

(30:47):
It was cool and custom and allthat, and it wasn't hard to do,
but now we're not allowed to burnwood outdoors in California because
it's not environmentally friendly.

Mike (30:55):
Oh, okay.
Didn't know that one.
there are some special things thatyou have to do in California or some
things that you can't do in California.
The podcast is for people indifferent parts of the country.
since we brought that up is thereother things that they need to be
aware of in working in Californiathat might be a little bit different?

Scott (31:15):
One of the things we're really worried about going into 2025 is
that there's a big push in Californiafrom the DECARB commissions to pull
natural gas out of the backyard.
Wow, and so they're actually haveset some laws in California that
are being challenged right now.

(31:37):
But lot of home builders rightnow are building homes without
natural gas service to the house.
This becomes a real challengefor us in California moving
forward and heating our pools.
Because we're going to have, we're notgoing to have the natural gas heater
barbecuing, having fire features.
And it's like taking a big stepback to the stone age, where we're

(31:58):
going to have to use propane tanksin order to feed these features.
And yeah, I'm a chairman of theCalifornia pool and spa association,
and I've been working hard with thecardboard to make them understand just
how restrictive these new laws are.
Yeah.

Trey (32:14):
I can imagine like just sitting by a fire pit and having to refill propane for
just that like I get a grill because I'm ayoung guy the grill I had wasn't expensive
at all so I've been there done that butjust refilling it just to use a fire pit
a grill all the fire features that sounds

Scott (32:30):
well,
Mike, we've seen fire featuresgrow and grow as a trend, right?
Oh, yeah,

Mike (32:35):
it was non existent when we started, it's integral to, I would say,
75 percent of the projects I do today.

Scott (32:42):
very surprised when somebody isn't interested in a fire feature
fire, not only adds warmth, obviously,and ambiance, but it's relaxing, right?
When you're sitting down around afire, unless your house is on fire.
you know, That's different.

Mike (32:56):
That would cause a little stress.

Scott (32:58):
I was sitting around the outdoor fireplace, a fire pit with my family.
And we're sitting there and thegirls are all making s'mores, right?
this is one of the reasons fire featuresexist, because 90 million pounds of
marshmallows are consumed each year.
45 of those million areroasted over an open fire.
That's a lot of marshmallows.

(33:20):
And we were getting intothat argument that you have.
Whether it's a half a chocolate baror a whole chocolate bar that goes on
to the s'more when you're finished,So everybody's holding their skewers
with their marshmallows on it, and wehear sirens from the house next door.
And a fire truck comes around, and then wehear another fire truck come around, and
we all run outside to see what's going on.

(33:41):
And just one house away from mine, inthe cul de sac, the Their house is on
fire and the people are standing outin the street and the house is burning
and they're looking at this and theylook over at us with such disdain.
Like, why are they so angry?
And I realized we're all standing therewith our sticks with the marshmallows.

Mike (33:59):
Looks like you're ready to go.
Uh,

Scott (34:01):
Oh yeah, it's not a true story, but it's a fun story to tell.

Trey (34:05):
Sounds good.
Roast marshmallow onyour neighbor's house.

Mike (34:08):
That'd be crazy.
No, we, as a family backpacked alot and so the campfire situation
creates lots of memories for us.
And so the cool thing is to have acampfire in the backyard that you're
not obliterated by smoke with naturalwood burning Was a nice thing.
And then you don't have toclean up the mess afterwards.
So, It's really cool.

(34:29):
What fire features are today.

Trey (34:30):
You talking about the smokeless fire pit?

Mike (34:32):
No, I'm just talking about gas fired fire pit.
Yeah.
Not going to happen sitting

Scott (34:36):
around the wood, getting a lot of smoke.
Yeah.

Mike (34:39):
Oh yeah.
again, we're creating placesthat people have memories.
And so just there's a lot of peoplethat want to go into their backyard.
Where we used to drive 12 hours togo to Colorado to light a fire in
the woods and have s'mores, they wantto go out in their backyard and do
that every night, or every weekend.

(35:01):
And so we've created spaces that Theydon't have to travel, they just get
to step into their backyard and enjoythese spaces that they can just,
instead of going to some resort,far away and have a great expense.
And so a lot of fun.

Scott (35:17):
we say vacation in your own backyard, right?
Oh yeah.
A

Mike (35:20):
hundred percent.
Did COVID change your business a lot?

Scott (35:25):
The covert change our business initially it did for the 1st, few
weeks, the city had shut us down.

Mike (35:31):
Oh, that's right.
California.
Yeah,

Scott (35:33):
California.
They're like no work stop everything.
they shot us completely downand it was a little terrifying
thinking what are we going to do?
And then they allowedus to go back to work.
And so we just had some rules to followwe set up cameras in each backyard, so
we had communication with our clientswhile we build where we weren't talking
to them face to face anymore, but we couldcommunicate and emails and communicate

(35:56):
what was going on with the project.
We.
Looked at all of the ways that we buildour jobs and improve the communication.
So we set up 26 emails that goout at each phase of construction
of the project where I might.
Before cobit has sat down with the clientsaid, so now we're going to excavate
and here's what it's going to look like.
We now have an email.

(36:17):
It's got a project tracker on the bottom.
It says, here's where you are.
we're going to dig the pool.
And it's going to look like this.
And we.
Made special effort to make sure thateach of the guys that was working
there was introduced in that email.
So here's your excavator.
He lives 15 miles from you.
He's got 3 dogs and 2 kids and loveshis dogs more than he does his kids.

(36:38):
And here's his he's beenmarried for 10 years.
You know, Whatever.
We just tell a little bitabout the guy, and he's been
with our company for 10 years.
For 10 years, what have you andthat's what they're going to do.
And so we introduced each foreman ateach stage of construction and showed
him pictures of what the yard is goingto look like through the process.
And we had some fun withit and that worked out.
Well, We were busy during it.

(36:59):
we were running at about 40%.
More volume than typical for us,and I shut it down at that point.
We started a waiting list and I thinkas a contractor, I'm sure you're aware.
I do a lot of constructiondefect expert witness work.
so, when somebody has done that forabout 15 years now, and when there's
a lawsuit filed, I'll be called in toevaluate what went wrong with the cost.

(37:23):
Correct.
It is how it happened.
And and.
I wanted to be careful because I'veseen a lot of contractors grow too fast,
take on too much work, and then end uphurting their reputation making mistakes.
And there's a certain amountof volume you can handle before
you start to get wheel wobble.
And when you start to get thatwheel wobble, if you don't
jump in there and slow it down.

(37:44):
You're going to crash.
And so we started a wait listand we had, I think a backlog
higher than we typically carry.
And so we started waiting list and wejust turned down work and that's hard
to do when you spend your whole careerbuilding business to turn away work.
But if you don't, itcan cost you in the end.

Mike (38:03):
there were people that, crashed and burned because they
couldn't handle was somethingthat no one prepared for too much.

Scott (38:10):
they were still in work with the same assumption that they could get the
materials as quickly as they used to andthat sort of thing, and you just couldn't.
So right now my expert witnesspractice, I'm getting a call every
single day from another attorney.
There are so many projects out therethat are starting to fall apart now.
it's just a result of.
Inadequate supervision at the time,counting on subs they hadn't worked on

(38:32):
with before, assuming they were doingthe work right, and you can't do that.
always say, you've got toinspect what you expect.
And if you didn't get a chance tosee it, you can't go to the next step
until to make sure it's been inspected.

Mike (38:44):
Well, There was a whole lot of people that are like, Oh, I can
get rich building pools, so let'sjust go all you gotta do is line the
subcontractors up and it builds itself.

Scott (38:53):
We saw a lot of guys show up and start doing that, service
guys that weren't familiar with it.
And I was.
Writing up a case earlier today,and a qualified full builder.
They were stretched thin and ithadn't really cut up to date, maybe
on the waterproofing practices.
And they were trying to do somethings with cast concrete that
they weren't familiar with,or at least their sub wasn't.

(39:13):
they poured.
500
linear feet of stairs thatwere supposed to have led.
in them without leavingany room for the channels.
And so it doesn't work well.
How do you go, how do you go back andfix that ? That's pretty hard to do.
Yeah.
stuff like that and the waterproofingthat was done, inadequately, one of the
things that frustrates me about Californiaand this isn't the case everywhere.

(39:36):
I know some parts of the countryyou have to be licensed and
some parts of the country don't.
In California, you do need a licenseto build a swimming pool, but once you
get your license, you're not requiredto have any continued education.
So you can have your license.
I got mine 35 years ago and nottake another class or take another
test and you just pay your renewalfees every year and that's it.

(39:58):
We've had a lot of things change inour industry over the last 35 years.
Just a few.
big improvements in waterproofing,but different techniques with how we
cast concrete and that sort of thing.
And lot of these guysare just not aware of it.
And it's not like that on the East coast.
It's interesting.
I've got buddies on the Eastcoast and they have continued

(40:18):
education requirements.
And so every year they're in theclasses because they need to be
there, but there's also camaraderiethat builds around the builders.
And they help each otherout when they need to.
And we just don't get thatsame vibe on the West coast.

Mike (40:31):
The Eastern shows a huge show because of the state requirements
that furthering education.

Scott (40:38):
tell you a funny story about that.
That's the show.

Mike (40:41):
Yes.

Scott (40:41):
The 1st, time I got hired to speak at the show, I was
going out there to do 3 seminars.
I'd never been there before.
I'm going back about 10years from California.
I don't even have clothes for this.
No, it can be brutal that time of year.
snow is like knee high, And I had togo earlier before the shuttles were
running to get prepared for class, andI jumped into a cab and picked me up

(41:04):
at the hotel for where the show is,everybody from the show is staying.
And he says, where are you off to?
I go, I'm going to the pool show.
He goes, Oh yeah, I know where that is.
He drops me off in this parking lot,the back of this hotel, where they
have in the center of the hotel, theyhave a strip club called the pool show.
And they had topless girls that, I don'tknow, pass out drinks or whatever at this,

(41:25):
around a swimming pool at the hotel.
think, it wasn't open at 7 a.
m., otherwise I would havebeen late for my seminar.
Yeah.
But not this pool show, like the real pool show.
I ended up making it, but I was soakingwet from, knees down, walking through the
snow, dragging my rolling bag, unprepared.

Mike (41:44):
taught there a couple of times and the last time we were
there, it was snowing on the beach.
My wife was like, I don't thinkI've ever seen snow on the ocean.
I was like, yeah here you go.
It's beautiful to see.
and it's always a cold time of the yearin January but that's the advantages.
Yeah.
Those guys are usually doing somethingelse because their pool side of the

(42:05):
business is shut down, but they allshow up for furthering education.
if you were a newdesigner in the industry.
What would your recommendationsbe for a person to get the
knowledge that they need over time?

Scott (42:20):
First thing I would say is get involved with the
associations in our industry.
The PHTA, Pool and Hot TubAlliance, or Pool and Spa
California Pool and Spa Association.
Go to the shows.
So that you get the education about thefundamentals but design involves more than
just our industry design is looking atarchitecture, traveling, seeing different

(42:43):
architects and designers over the years.
I've always found travel to bereally inspirational for me.
1 of my favorite trips was going toBarcelona and looking at Gaudi's work.
Yeah.
And seeing a lot of the things thathe created because I'm a ceramics
guy, And and the work that he did aterm we considered to be outlandish
in the US and he wasn't well receivedin his time, but I like a lot of his

(43:07):
work there are different architectsthat I've admired over the years.
And I think that may not be specific topools, but it comes into play when you're.
Working out differentideas on how you can do it.
Advice.
I would have one of the things would becareful not to do Just one style, you and
I were talking earlier about how thingshave changed over the years Oh, yeah, it's

(43:29):
important to get into the client's headI think to match the architectural style
of that home, But be careful of trendslike you just don't want to do only this
style it's like being an actor and youdon't want to get typecast where that's
all you do want to be able to changeyour performance for the role and if the
role is this is a modern farmhouse Great.

(43:49):
This is a tropical backyardgreatness in the English garden.
I like to be able to design thosedifferent styles for different
people in different yards.
I hate doing the samething over and over again.
I don't like it at all.
It's done at once.
There's no reason to do it again.
I have a client I'm working with right nowand she really likes the job we did around
the corner from her in the neighborhoodand she just wants to look just like that.

(44:12):
can't do that.
I've already done that and it'sin the same neighborhood and we
keep trying different designs anddifferent concepts and we just come
back to, she just wants it like that.
So It's a compliment, butat the same time, don't like
to paint the same painting.
I want to do something different.

Mike (44:28):
So hard.
Cause some people can't picture things.
And even with 3d modeling,some people don't get it.
had one client that It was a similartype situation, but she was wealthy
and she was just like, okay, buildit and let me see if I like it.
And then she'd be like,no, that's not quite it.
Tear that down.

(44:48):
Let's try this over here.
And I mean, we would 3dmodel it and show her.
And anyway, the superintendentabout wanted to kill me.
They paid for everything, but it wasjust that the job took forever to build.
And This was, thankgoodness, a long time ago.
It was actually back inthe recession and in 2010.
company was like, Hey, if that's whatshe wants to do, we'll tear it down and

Scott (45:14):
build another one

Mike (45:15):
anyway.

Scott (45:16):
modeling has gotten better, so we're.
Able to help that client that can'tvisualize, but I don't like it.
and you can see behind me, all my drawingsused to be done by hand it would be a
tree and a kind of coping and a sort ofpatio, but it didn't define exactly that.
when clients look at something thatis a red brick coping with a flagstone

(45:40):
patio with this particular tree, ifthere's something about that they
don't like, they have trouble gettingvisually past that, I like that.
It's more generic.
I like the way our drawings used tobe when it was the essence of a tree.
What tree is it?
I don't know.
It's a shade tree.
It's a tree, but now they want to seethe purple color and this and that.
I had a customer in here last weekand she wants the trees changed

(46:03):
to match the actual trees thatwe've selected now for her yard.
And some of them I haveand some of them I don't.
But why?
And she wants it, so we're going to do it.
But it's frustrating for me.
I don't like how precisethe 3D stuff is now.
And of course, you're not showing it howit's going to be when it's delivered.
The tree is going to bethis tall when we start,

Mike (46:22):
right?
We got into some things recently wheresomebody was like, it clearly states
this is conceptual drawings only thisis not what you're getting that I mean
on our documents, but they were like,I think when we do our drawings, we
take all the plant material out so theycan, you know, that wasn't included,

(46:44):
this was, that type thing we took thefurniture out, we take all the things out.
I thought I was getting, So it's got tothe point where I include ledge loungers
on all my projects because they gotto the point where they're like wanted
you to pick what was best for you.
You mean you didn't include them?
And it's no, because there's severaldifferent ones you could pick.
Anyway, now we just include it.

(47:04):
So change, had

Scott (47:06):
a client one time I called up and I said, Hey, I'm going to
be in the neighborhood tomorrow.
Is it cool if I swingby and pick up a check?
We're done.
And he says you're not finished yet.
I said, Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought we were all done.
He says, no, where's my hat?
I said well, I'm pardon me.
This is well, in all the drawingsand the perspectives, I'm wearing
a chef's hat at the barbecue.
Where's my hat?
I said you're seriouslyholding back $30,000?

(47:28):
'cause you don't have a hat.
That's
wild.
He says, yes.
I said, I'm gonna be there tomorrowand I'm bringing you a hat.
And Mike, every single project we do sincethat time, and that was 10 years ago.
We give everyone a hat.
, here's the barbecue hat.
We don't include the barbecuethat we charge extra for,
but the hat you get for free

Mike (47:45):
the hat.
But you put a hat on the person too.
In the graphics.

Scott (47:49):
Yeah, we do.
We try to make them look like, hey,they're special, they're the show.
Yeah.
I found, when we used to draw them byhand the ladies, we'd go to do our,
our HGTV presentation where we flip theboard over and show them the reveal.
they'll say, oh my god, youreally think I'm that fat?
So we changed all the drawings.
I got draftsman with me at the time, too.
And say, okay, all thewomen are really thin ways.

(48:11):
Perky breasts, big smiles, walking tall.
The men are muscular trim ways.
Give them a six pack.
It doesn't matterwhether it's real or not.
That's what you're doing becausewe were just drawing characters.
We never actually drawn the real people.

Mike (48:23):
Right.

Scott (48:23):
but I think that's next, Mike.
I think next phase for our 3Dmodeling is just the client comes in.
You take your phone, you scan them upand down and then they get 3D put into
the program and you can put them indifferent positions in the backyard.

Mike (48:37):
Noah's probably got that in his plans with structure studios.
It's coming.
I'm sure

Scott (48:41):
he does.
Coming soon.
And, for only a few dollars more,you can have their actual voice
that you can have say whatever youwant as they walk through the yard.
Wow.
This is a beautiful design.
Oh, awesome.
Are you guys using AI anyof your stuff at this time?
We are not yet.
Are you?
We starting to we're starting to use itMostly for social media for voiceovers

(49:05):
and things like that and creating imagesfor presentations or creating a special
like we like to name all of our jobs.
I name every one of my projects andusually some kind of whimsical dad joke
sort of name, but we name every project.
And so now we've got graphicsto go along with that too,
that we're using AI to create.
So we're having some fun with it.

Mike (49:25):
That's what it's all about.
It's having some fun.

Trey (49:27):
How do you involve the homeowners in the design process?
Because every designerwe've talked to varies.
And you've talked about it a littlebit, but do you like, want to like
on the first meeting, sit with themin their home, understanding what
kind of car they drive, what kind ofclothes they wear, stuff like that?
Or is it different?

Scott (49:43):
The initial intake is the most important part of the process.
I have a 6 page design questionnairethat I go through and I sit down with
the client and I go, look, this isour chance to get to know each other.
I'm going to ask you a lot of questions.
Some of them you might feel uncomfortableor think they're a little personal, but it
helps me get to know you and then I wantyou to feel comfortable asking me anything

(50:04):
you want about anything because this isa relationship that goes on for years.
design process, the permit process,the build, and then the afterwards.
mean, Hopefully you're creatinga friend for a lifetime, right?
Because you want to be rememberedas the person that helped create
those family memories that lastedyear after year after year.
And I really enjoy that part of it.

(50:26):
I don't do any commercial work whatsoever.
Everything I do is 100 percentresidential, and that's by choice because
I like working with the people there's atype of hypnosis since you asked called
neuro linguistic programming, or NLP, andtherapists use NLP to help get to know
their clients quickly their patients.

(50:47):
And how to bond and build rapportquickly through NLP and NLP basically
says that we all have a preference ofhow we like to take in information.
We're either more visual or moreauditory or more kinesthetic.
Some people need to hear it.
Some people need to see it.
Some people need to touch it.
And when you can figure out what thatclient is, while you're talking to

(51:10):
them, you can use their same preferencelanguage to respond back to them,
use the same words that they use, andthat builds rapport very quickly and
helps you get to know them better anddeeper through the design process.
I'll give you a greatexample of how this works.
One of the mistakes that poolsalespeople make is they try
to sell the benefits of a pool.

(51:31):
But the person that you're talking tomay not want a pool for the benefits.
They may want the pool to solve a pain.
Okay, I had a client.
I was going through mydesign questionnaire.
So why do you want a swimming pool?
And she's telling me she wants swim pool.
So why do you want one?
I let the clients sellme on what they want.
Why?
I don't push them on the benefit.
So why do you wanna swim?
Why?

(51:52):
I didn't have a pool growing up.
Said, oh how'd you learn to swim?
Now this kid across the street had a pool.
Sally and I used to go toher house and swim there.
I said, Oh, so you wouldswim over at Sally's.
Not all the time.
Sometimes she'd have partiesI didn't get invited.
And so I see.
So how'd you feel about that?
I hate that bitch, Sally, and I'mgoing to build for you a pool much
better than Sally's pool ever was.

(52:13):
And you can post it onFacebook and stick it to Sally.
And again, that's really what I want,but you have to get very close to
the client to get down to that levelof understanding the real reason
behind why they're choosing, Sally.
To put in this yard, really wasabout for her something from her
childhood that she didn't feelgood about that she wanted to fix.
And so she's always wanted a pool.

(52:34):
And so there are a lot of peoplewith lots of different reasons for
why they want our products and don'tassume that get to know the client
and find out what's really all about.

Trey (52:43):
Yeah, that's interesting because I've heard the concept of don't
sell the pool, sell the experience.
But I haven't heard it like that.
That's the psychological aspectof it's very interesting.

Scott (52:53):
Yeah, they talk a lot about selling the sizzle Not the pool, right?
And, pools are, boy, you got tomaintain them, and they cost money
to build, and you're not going toswim in it anyway you certainly don't
want to talk too much about that.
You never want to talk about pumps andfilters and equipment, because that's
not sexy, and nobody cares what sizefilter you're going to put on their pool.
But understanding the entertainingvalue and understanding the what they

(53:15):
want and using the same words they use.
This is key.
I've seen our pool industry guysmake mistakes on this a lot.
When I'm talking to a client, I say,oh, so do you want something for shade?
I don't say, do you want a patiocovered or do you want a pergola or
do you want a pavilion or anything?
Because it gets them confused.
I just say, is there somethingyou're looking for shade?
And they go, yeah, Ione of those pergolas.
Is that how you pronounce it?

(53:37):
I'm always like, Pergola, thatworks for me call it whatever you
want, shape, structure, I get it.
person in our industry, I went outwith them on a sales call, and the
client was asking, or potential clientI'll say, asking him for a jacuzzi.
They want to make sure that theirpool has a jacuzzi with it, and
he said, jacuzzi is a brand name.
What you mean is a hot tub and hemade the client feel like an idiot.

(53:59):
and I just, oh no, you'renot selling a jacuzzi today.
And he didn't, I was justthere observing, but really is.
Use the words that the people use.
Part of the purpose of the designquestionnaire is if somebody thinks
they want a modern backyard, butyou really understand from listening
to them between the words, they'relooking for something a little bit more
contemporary, but not necessarily modern.

(54:21):
Or when they say, I want something modern.
I said, what does that mean to you?
Oh, so I want lots offruit trees and palm trees.
Okay.
Nothing to do with modern.
They want what they want, but they'rejust trying to put a name to it.
So always try to verifywhatever you're saying.
I ask more questions and I digdeeper so I can really understand
what the client's after and treatevery design consultation the same.

(54:44):
My goal is to make a friend.
I might sell a project ifit's a good project for me.
I've been on lots of calls where theyweren't good projects for my company.
I had no interest inreally doing that job.
They didn't have the budget.
They didn't have the mindset or what haveyou, but I made a friend and they might
have somebody down the road that they'llrecommend me to that is a better fit.
Not every job is a job youshould get and your next job

(55:07):
always comes from your last job.
So be very careful when times aretough and you take on a project.
That's a lower budget or halfthe job you would normally do.
Because your next jobwill be that same job.
Someone will see that's the work you doand they'll hire you for the same thing.
Once you elevate your craft to acertain level, that's where you stay.

(55:30):
You work there and can't take on work.
That's not to that level because.
Your next job will comefrom your last job.

Mike (55:38):
Totally agree with that.
So it's hard because sometimes youwant to help everybody, but you don't
have the time and effort to do that.
That's you pick the niche that you enjoythe working in and, if you do that, then
you'll have what you do all the time.
So Fun.

Trey (55:56):
but that's no hate to like small lots, because there's some small lots
out there that'll cram so much stuffin there which we've seen lately.

Mike (56:03):
We still have fun designing those projects regardless of size.
Anyway,

Scott (56:08):
it's much more challenging to design a smaller lot space
than it is a larger box.
Yes.
And, ergonomics come into play in everyinch counts every foot, how people.
Go through and traffic.
I think the 1st thing I do, anytimeI set up a plot map, I'm looking at
the lot, I'm looking at the doorsand the windows and the views.

(56:28):
And I'm making sure that I've gotflow through the yard and I can see
the things I want to see from thewindows that are important to see.
And then the pieces just fall into place.
But sometimes you have a client wherethey go, I want a television and I
want to swim a bar and I want a bigoutdoor kitchen and the fireplace and
I definitely need a big green egg.
And I want to have afire feature in the pool.

(56:49):
And I want to have awaterfall and I want to have.
And you're like, are welooking at the same space here?
Because there's no way that allthat's fitting in this yard.
and I've said that the client'slike, ah, I've seen your work.
You'll figure it out.
And sometimes you just have tofigure a way to make it work.

Mike (57:04):
Sometimes it

Scott (57:05):
will, sometimes it won't.
But don't you agree that it's Ireally enjoy being challenged.
Not in my opinions.
My opinions are right every time I tellmy wife this, but I do being challenged
with, okay, here's something that wehaven't quite done before, but I know how
I can do something similar to accomplishthat and look at it from a different way.
And that I do enjoy.

Mike (57:26):
Who wants to do the same thing over and over again?
So that's where, difficult projects is,I know there are designers that are like.
I can look at their work and I canbe like, Oh that's a so and so style.
And here's the elementsthat you have on it.
And they're always that way.
And some people love thatand they love creating their

(57:47):
personal stamp and style on it.
And they do sometimes beautiful work.
To me tell my clients, I've never donetwo projects, the same in 35 years.
And that's the fun of my job.
That's the fun is here's your yard.
It's different.
Here's your house.
It's different.
And what you want is certainly differentthan what the neighbors wanted.

(58:09):
So let's have fun and figureout your paradise here.

Scott (58:13):
yeah there's certainly a lot of companies in our industry that, that
specialize in what we might call cookiecutter projects and Hey, if that's
what people want to buy great for them.
think it's a lot more lucrative to dothe same thing over and over again.
Your crew knows what to do, you know, howto price it, you know, what it's going
to take, how long it's going to be right.

(58:35):
There's no surprises.
Everybody's happy at the end.
It's exactly what theythought it would be.
But for you and I that'snot where we reside.
That's not the fun of the job.

Mike (58:44):
That's not my niche.
And like I said, there, differentpeople that do different things and
that's the fun of this job is in thisindustry you can find your niche.
It's a very diverse industryand there's all kinds of
things that you can do with it.
So it's fun in that aspect withwhat we get to create with water

(59:04):
and all the stuff around it that

Scott (59:06):
for sure.
I would like to see our.
Industry work more closelywith the landscape industry.
And soften up some of this hardscape.
a lot of the work that I see outthere is really concrete heavy.
And there's so much a little greenerycan do to change the feel the space cool

(59:27):
the temperatures of the space and giveyou opportunities for lighting and all
those things that we just don't a shame.
I think our industries needto get more involved together.
Landscaping involves

Mike (59:37):
and I started in the landscaping side and then moved
over into the pool side because Igot tired of the pool guy, putting
the pool in the center of the yard.
And then she, they want an outdoorkitchen and they wanted an Arbor
and they wanted all these things.
And I'm like if they had just slid thispool over five feet farther to one side,
then all these things would have fit.

(59:59):
But right now we're pigeonholed in here.
So it was.
To control the process I movedup the food chain anyway.
but yes, all clients are differenton how much landscaping they want.
But it's something that totallymakes huge difference on projects,
especially on the ones that you lookback on three and four years later.

(01:00:20):
And.
The landscaping has gotten tomature and you can see the true
design intent that's there.
The screening does its job andthe focal points are there and
softening of the, foundation of thehouse and, all the things that take
place with landscaping over time.
the only problem is it does taketime for that piece to develop.

Scott (01:00:43):
For sure, and a little bit of fertilizer and some
love and attention too, right?
One of the things that I seein our industry that I think is
really underrated is outdoor sound.
Placing speakers throughout the garden.
When you go to any resort, or you're at afancy restaurant, or even just shopping,
they control the mood with sound.
And when I see sound used inbackyards, I see a lot of times people

(01:01:06):
just put two big speakers at theback patio and blast the backyard.
And that's terrible because we can'thave a conversation when that's going on.
I prefer to use multiplespeakers throughout the garden.
And they now have some great outdoorsubwoofers and things like this
that you can use to actually getsome vibration in the backyard.

Trey (01:01:23):
Yeah.
a lot of them like rocks.
So they like blend into the design.
I've seen a couple of those at the shows.
I love them.
Really cool.

Mike (01:01:30):
There is large variety that's available now of different things, but
yes again, you're creating an ambience andmusic is huge in that aspect of the space.
And I have some clients that whenI talk to them, sound is important.
And so they don't want thewater features for the sound.

(01:01:52):
They want music.
And so that's something that isimportant to understand to with water
features, you can create some thingsthat have obnoxious sounds that may
look cool but they sound horrible.
So it's something we discuss all thetime is the aspect of what they're
trying to create and what the endresults going to be, because sometimes

(01:02:13):
it's not what they anticipated.
But, I've had a number of clientsthat are like, I don't need a water
feature for sound at all because themusic's what's more important to us.
So incorporating speakers wework with that a lot, especially
in the outdoor living spaces.
Instructors that we're doing.
Yeah, I

Scott (01:02:29):
love to sing while I'm driving, but for some reason, only when I'm in reverse,
I think I'm actually a backup singer.
couldn't help myself.
You're talking aboutwater features and sound.
I built a water feature, there was,the house had this kind of really
cool alcove to it where, like anatrium type thing, the three, parts
of the house wrapped around the patio,

(01:02:51):
and at
the end of that, I put this beautiful outdoor fireplace, and I had
these two large scupper pots spillingover into basins on either side of that,
and when you walked into the house, itlooked really cool, But it sounded like
two giants urinating in oversized toilets,just you walk right into the house.
And it was like, horrible.
It sounded like an airport bathroom.

(01:03:13):
tried more water pressurethat didn't work.
I slowed down the water that didn't work.
It was the worst soundingfeature ever done.
And I was struggling with a solution.
And what we ended up doing istaking a copper screen we built.
And putting it on legs in the basin,so the water would hit the screen
first and then splash into the water.

(01:03:33):
And it ended up sounding like rain sticks.
And it went from being this horriblyobnoxious urinal to this very
soothing Zen water feature andthe whole house sounded wonderful.
Sound is an important part ofany water feature you build.
100%.

Mike (01:03:51):
So one of the things that we have on the show is a segment
that we call poolside true crime.
And this is cases where, something'shappened and it was like, I can't
believe that happened to somebody.
That's a real crime.
And you have a whole classyou've taught on bloopers and
all kinds of things like that.

(01:04:11):
So I thought you might have.
One or two that you could share withus where, this would really help a
homeowner to think about somethingbefore they did something well.
I don't

Scott (01:04:23):
want to scare away homeowners from working with contractors.
Mike, have.
Seminar I do called builders bloopers andblunders and I updated every year with
the most common defects that I've seenover the past 18 months and unfortunately,
as an industry, do make some of thesame mistakes over and over again, which
is frustrating because the informationis there, read the book or take the

(01:04:45):
seminar or pay attention to, podcastslike this that you can learn from.
But 1 of my favorite caseswas a project that we end up
naming whose fault is it anyway.
All right, was a complete failure.
It's a cracked pool, doesn't hold water.
It's broken but now you're lookingat the body and you're trying to

(01:05:06):
figure out whose fault was it.
Okay.
And what had happened in this property isit was a down slope front yard and it was
a house flipper that bought the house.
Okay.
And he put up a retaining walland he backfilled the soil.
So it was level, not a permittedretaining wall, not a properly
compacted backfill, no hydrostaticdrains, no French drain, nothing.

Mike (01:05:27):
Oh, he was from Texas.

Scott (01:05:28):
probably the.
Pool guy shows up, he sees alevel piece of land, and he quotes
a pool going into that space.
He doesn't do any soils work in theexcavator, digs the pool, and he's in
two different kinds of soil, right?
Part of it's the soil that's beenthere for 10, 15 years or longer, and
the other part was put there two yearsago, and so he's in differential soils.

(01:05:48):
The pool contractor, His planthat he got permitted, he didn't
show any of the decking around it.
But this guy who was doing thesteel that's how all his plans look.
So he assumed that there was no deckingor that there was decking around the pool.
So he built a, deck detail with threebars of steel instead of what we call no

(01:06:10):
deck detail, which has six bars of steel.
he had 50 percent of the steel in it.
So the steel was completelyinadequate for the pool.
The Gunite contractor came in and said,And he shot the pool, but nobody lived
at the house and the contractor didn'tmake any plans for watering and guide.
It was a dry mix shoot.

(01:06:30):
So it was just sand and cementwithout somebody to hydrate
it for the first 10 days.
It never achieved strength.
So the concrete ended up testing atabout 1200 PSI broke apart like chocolate
chip cookies in your hand, crumble.
So the pool gets plastered andthe tile work is glass tile,
but it's not waterproofed first.

(01:06:51):
So water's leaking in through the backof the tile and it's a mesh tile and they
don't have adequate coverage behind it.
And so clearly the whole problemis the tile guy's fault, except
that the gunnite failed completely.
So it's a gunnite guy's fault,except for There's half the amount
of rebar that's supposed to be in it.
So it's obviously the rebar guy's fault,but then the excavator was in 50%.

(01:07:15):
One kind of saw on the other kind,didn't point out to anybody else.
So it's obviously his faultthat the pool cracked.
then the pool contractor himselfdidn't have adequate pool plans to
show that it was a no deck detail.
So it would be built properly in the firstplace and he wasn't there at each step.
So it was a total catastrophe.
It all had to be completely removedand replaced with a new pool.

(01:07:35):
And but who's fault?

Trey (01:07:37):
Everybody.

Scott (01:07:38):
Yeah.
So the kind of thing that can go wrong ifyou don't inspect what you expect, right?
And you have to be there tosupervise your projects as you go.
I have at my company the greenscene we've got 55 employees.
We build between 10 a year andexterior home improvements.
And I require an appointment with theclient every two weeks on the job site.

(01:08:01):
Okay most of the time, quite frankly,we're drinking wine and drinking scotch.
We're not doing too much work.
But I set up these appointmentsautomatically every two weeks because
they're an hour piece and they blockout time on my calendar and it becomes a
governor for how much work I can take on.
You know, If I don't have a time tosee a new client because I'm busy

(01:08:21):
meeting my existing clients, then that'sthe volume I can handle personally.
And as soon as that starts to goaway and you don't meet the clients,
that wheel wobble steps in andthere's things that fall apart.
But I found Probably half the timeI'm on a call where I'm just meeting
with the client to touch baseand verify the layout or talking.
Sometimes you make anadjustment in the field.

(01:08:43):
They are some from when youlook from this window here.
If it was a foot thisway, it would look better.
You can make those changes,but I almost always come back
with some kind of scope change.
Something we didn't discuss beforeand the customers now comfortable
and confident in our work.
And they hit what we callthe might as well syndrome.
Gosh, you know, we got you guys here.
You're doing such a great job.

(01:09:04):
Might as well add those bigger trees, addthe barbecue, add the patio cover, add the
fire feature, add the fancier lighting,add the mist system, add the outdoor sound
add those things because you're herealready and I'm liking what I'm seeing.
And that's how you grow your business.
And so those personal relationships thatstart with the design questionnaire,

(01:09:24):
getting, making a new friend.
Being there all the way through theprocess, supervising the jobs as you
go and being at the end of the job to,for the after party to celebrate what
you guys have been through, becauseit's been dirty, messy, noisy, life
invasive, dusty, You got through it.
Let's hug it out.
and they get to go enjoy that space andhopefully you've made a friend forever.

Mike (01:09:45):
It's a great process to go through.

Scott (01:09:47):
I just played pickleball with one of my clients last weekend, we
built a pickleball court for him andduring my design questionnaire this
is all I want to pickleball court.
So, How you play?
No, I don't play.
Have you ever played pickleball?
No, I'm not buildingyou a pickleball court.
If you've never played pickleball.
No, it's very popular.
It's going to be very popular.
I want one.
I don't care if you'venever played pickleball.

(01:10:10):
I'm not building you a pickleball courtbecause if you go out there and you don't
like it now forever, you're looking outat it and you've got animosity towards me.

Mike (01:10:17):
And it's a big thing.
It's not,

Scott (01:10:20):
yeah.
And he says okay, okay.
So you take some lessons.
I gave him the name of a guy.
You take the lessons.
And if you like the pickleball,we'll build you the pickleball.
And we ended up building it andthey love it and it's a lot of fun.
And We just got them on Etsy.
We were able to order a, metal cutout oftheir family name and, pick them all club.

Trey (01:10:39):
Oh,

Scott (01:10:39):
that's cool.
After all

Mike (01:10:40):
as you said, the relationships that you build you understand
somebody, you don't have to sellthem because you're providing they're
wanting and you understand them.
that's a fun part aboutthe design process.
People a lot of times will comment how inthe world did you figure this out for me?
And it's because you ask the questions andyou listen and you understand, even what

(01:11:06):
they can't express in words because ofour experience and doing this over years,
you can translate that into what they'reTheir oasis paradise resort, whatever
you want to call it, it's going to be,and, kudos to your pick of all champion.

Scott (01:11:24):
Yeah I was interviewing the client and.
I really just got the sense thatthey were just alcoholics that
love their martinis and that's alland we go to build the project.
I bring out this concept that I originallycame up with it almost as a joke.
I had 2 concepts concepta and B and concept.
It was the spas and martini glass, right?
You remember the job?

(01:11:44):
Yes, I do spas and martini glass.
With a swim up 12 foot swimup bar and we plumbed it.
So it had jets that pulsated, oryou could flip a valve and rotate
and create a whirlpool in the spot.
So you had a choice of shaken orstirred in the martini glass, right?
And we did the whole thing inone by one, pearlescent tiles.
It was really cool.

(01:12:05):
I was kidding when I threw it outthere initially and they loved it.
I never even showedthem the second concept.
And so we ended up building thismartini spa and I think it was
featured on HGTV or what haveyou, one of our, one of our shows.
It was,

Mike (01:12:18):
I remember that.
It was classic.

Scott (01:12:20):
I stole one of their martini glasses from them and
created a mold from it and cast it.
And I made custom tiles for thebacksplash, their barbecue that
matched their martini glass set.
And they had their kids come over to myceramic studio, my garage and paint their
own tiles that we used in the backsplash.
A lot of fun.
one thing that I admire about your work,Mike, and your demeanor is that you want

(01:12:44):
to have fun, you want to have a goodtime with it, And there's so many guys
that are just out hustling and worriedabout getting the business and that's
not Going to give you gratificationover time, when I go back and I look
at these pictures and this walk downthis old memory lane and I just I love.
Oh, my God.
That was so cool.
I don't remember where I came up with theidea for necessarily, but I'm glad I did.

(01:13:06):
And it was fun thing to build.
I'm grateful to the clients.
That gave me the opportunity to havethe trust in me to allow me to build
it because it was a lot of money.

Mike (01:13:14):
Oh, yeah, it's it's a great thing.
We get to do that.
The clients.
Make it all possible.
And that's The relationships youbuild, they keep coming back.
have you done repeat clients that havecome back and done more projects with you?

Scott (01:13:32):
I have sure.
You build the one projectfor sometimes it's crazy.
Like you just finished the job andsix months later, they're calling you.
You're not going to believeit, but we're moving and we're
going to a different house.
Now, that's something wewant a completely different.
They want a different thing that theywanted last time, which is fine because
the house is different, but There's timeswhere we've built something and that
client was so specific about which paverit had to be and how the edges had to be

(01:13:56):
cut and how the bevel needed to be andthe spacing of this and the color of that
and the matching of the tile and that theywere so particular and then six months
later they moved on and they're movinginto another house and they call back
and start the whole process over again.
I'm not like that.
I've been in the same house 33 years.

Mike (01:14:14):
No, you've got lots of memories in years.
I've been in mine think 21.
So now, and then we think aboutmoving, but now can't find
anything that works as well.
Although, we mightremodel that pool someday.
Yeah,

Scott (01:14:27):
I've remodeled everything.
We try stuff out at my house to seeif it works, the first lit barbecue
counters and things with fiberoptics, we tried that at my house.
First it worked, didn't work.
We changed it, some of the earlycast concrete countertops looked like
Fred Flintstone cast them, horrible.

Mike (01:14:43):
That's how we learn.

Scott (01:14:44):
Absolutely.

Mike (01:14:45):
And then

Scott (01:14:45):
things come back around.
Do you remember everybody wassquare edge was so boring.
Nobody wanted a square edge.
You had to do a bullnose edge or amantle edge or create some cool details
for these cast concrete countertops.
And now I have clients going well,no, we don't want any of that.
We just want a square edge.
We remember how to do that.

Mike (01:15:01):
Yeah, it's been done before.
it's funny because I tell peoplethe pendulum always swings.
You're going to see things that you're inthe industry long enough, we have been,
we've seen things change and styles.
And one of the things we encouragedwith the million dollar pool challenge
this last year was, told people that.

(01:15:22):
They shouldn't be designing the clientwanted something other than a rectangle
because a lot of the people that havebeen in industry five or six years, all
they know how to draw is a rectangle.
And I'm like, the pendulum is startingto swing and people are wanting things
other than just a rectangular pool.
And the fun is stuff comes and goes andwe get to interpret it in different ways.

(01:15:43):
And create these trends

Scott (01:15:44):
go in cycles for sure.
1 of the things that I try to encouragethe designers that work with me is can't
think about you're talking to this couple.
We're talking to your client now, andthey're telling you about their life
today, but you've got to think abouttheir life for the next 10 years.
Because if they're going to be in thishome for 10 to 15 years, how is this

(01:16:06):
design going to service that client?
15 years from now or 10 yearsfrom now their kids are 20.
Guess what?
They're going to be married andthey're going to have grandkids.
And if you aren't the grandparentswith the better backyard, they're
going to go to the other house.
So you better plan on that now.

Mike (01:16:21):
Oh, yeah.
So it was funny.
I made comments about when I builtmy pool about my grandchildren and
my kids laughed hysterically at me.
And now they're wanting to knowwhere some of the features I
would said that were come for thegrandchildren are going to show up.

Scott (01:16:37):
Yeah, time to remodel the pool.
Let me know if I can help you out.

Mike (01:16:40):
Okay.
I appreciate the help.
Any last things you would encouragepeople or thoughts that we haven't
talked about that you'd love to share?

Scott (01:16:49):
You know, I see a lot of young designers.
work that we're buildingit's relatively permanent.
That old saying it's not set in stone.
It doesn't apply to our work it isset in stone and it's set in stone.
So let's get it right the 1st time.
But that can be a big hurdle for somedesigners to get over and they can sit
and stare at a drawing and be just stuckin it and try to, Just mimic what other

(01:17:13):
people have done and repeat things thatthey've done in the past, rather than
push the envelope and try new things.
they're afraid because it's permanent andI've seen him just sit there for hours
stuck in it with a piece of paper in frontof him and a pencil or computer, whatever.
And I like to just let it flow,sometimes I find the computer to be a
hindrance when I'm just brainstorming.

(01:17:33):
So I'll just print out the plot map.
Grab a glass of scotch or red wineor both and, doodle out some ideas
and concepts and just let it flowand then hone it and then put it
in 3D and whatever and present it.
But don't get stuck on it havingto be perfect the first time.
You know, When I was in drafting classesand drawing and whatever else they give

(01:17:54):
you, they did this thing called two minutedrawings where you had to sit down with
a stack of paper and you drew for twominutes and new page two minutes, new
page, two minutes, and you had to get asquick and drawing you could as you could
in, but you weren't allowed to spend morethan two minutes on drawing and it forced
you to get out of worrying about it.
What are you going to do?
Waste some paper and a pencil?
Who cares?

(01:18:14):
Make some drawings, giveit some different ideas.
Look at it a few different ways,show the client some different
options, have fun with it.

Mike (01:18:21):
100 percent on that inspiration.
So you mentioned travel, youmentioned one place is travel with
the biggest inspiration you draw from?

Scott (01:18:31):
is for me.
love it.
I'll give you an example.
We went to Bali and my wife and I,we spent three weeks traveling across
that, the country, and part of itis very tropical and part of it's
beachy and part of it is very foresty.
And we were in all thesethree different areas.
And a year or two later, I'msitting with a client and they
said what we're really looking foris this vibe we had on vacation.

(01:18:53):
I don't know if you'veever heard of the place.
Nobody has, but Bali.
I said, Oh, Abu it is a mood.
Yeah.
like, you've been there.
Yeah, I know exactly what you're afterand I drew it out and that was it.
We were just done and there was abonding and a connection because
I understood where they've been.
I understood the vibe that they wereafter and I knew the plants, And which

(01:19:15):
ones would grow in our area and whichones wouldn't and it really was one
of my favorite jobs and because of wetraveled and had been to the same place
or even a similar place, there was animmediate connection and we were able to
build that project and mimic that style.
So

Mike (01:19:30):
it's media has provided us so many images of.
Different places in the world today thatwe can see, but still going there is
so much more than seeing something onTV or a picture, those type of things.
But, yeah,

Scott (01:19:48):
you know, Mike, good design is all about how you feel in the space.
Right and sometimes peoplecan't even explain how they
why they feel a certain way.
I'm doing a drawing sometimes andI can't necessarily explain to you
why this is the right way to go.
But it is for this space.
This is the way we want to do it.
And I've learned to trust that gut.

(01:20:09):
If I feel like this is the wayand this is it, that's the way.
And I've been called stubborn before.
You ever had a client call you stubborn?
Yeah.
They want to do somethingand you're like, Oh no.
It doesn't feel right.
I don't like that idea.
No, but it's my house and Ireally want to do it again.
No, I don't want to, I don'twant to build that, but it's my
house and I'm writing the check.
So that's what we're going to do.
No, told a customer recently thatcan't do what she's asked me to do.

(01:20:33):
I just, I couldn't put a greenscene sign in front of it.
I couldn't take a picture ofit and put it on my website
and I couldn't be proud of it.
And so I won't build it.
There's no reason to waste that.
She was really offended by that.
But, I'm a nationally awarded designer.
You've hired me to design your yard.
Take my recommendation.
For what they're worth, they're goodideas, don't hire me and then not

(01:20:54):
listen to what I'm telling you, weneed to do here that's pointless.
You don't need me there.

Mike (01:20:58):
I tell people I'm your guide, but there's some things it's like, no, it's
just, no, you don't want to do that.
You just don't want to go down that.
that can

Scott (01:21:09):
be frustrating at times

Mike (01:21:10):
it can but usually the best thing is to walk away from it.
Versus try to you and theclient aren't a fit, it's better
to walk away for both parties,

Scott (01:21:22):
Not everybody's going to be a match and you can't force it.
when the vibe is there, when it works.
Are you can create magic together,

Mike (01:21:30):
right?

Scott (01:21:31):
And if it's not, okay, it's not awful.
There's a reason that there's 31flavors at the ice cream store, right?
And I've never understood that becausecoffee ice cream is the best ice cream.
And that's the only oneflavor that you need to have.
But other people like other flavors.
I've heard

Mike (01:21:46):
pralines and creams.
got to disagree

Scott (01:21:48):
if they're completely out of coffee,

Mike (01:21:50):
I would consider it.
Okay.
Yeah.
I might try it sometime.
I greatly appreciate you coming on.
And you didn't sound like Kermitthe frog at all this time.
So I'm glad we waited because you didsound pretty bad a couple of weeks ago.

Scott (01:22:04):
Yep.
That stuff's going around.
I enjoyed being here.
It's great to talk with you.
I, we've been.
Friends for well, over a decade now,I was looking back at some emails and
things, and it's gone on a long time.
And there are few designers in ourindustry that I have as much respect
for, as I do Mike Farley and yourinvolvement in the industry to.
I like that guys that are involvedand giving back to the industry

(01:22:29):
and I like being part of that.
And it's a pleasure toshare the show with you.

Mike (01:22:32):
Yeah.
Likewise, sir.
You're I've admired yourwork for a long time.
And you were, volunteer ofthe year for PHTA this year.

Scott (01:22:40):
I work better for free than most people do.
Apparently was a nice athlete.
I appreciate it.
But

Mike (01:22:48):
yeah it's a great industry and it's great to give to other people
because somebody gave to me a longtime ago and helped me down the road.
So I appreciate all the helpyou're giving people as well.
You and your family have a greatholiday season and we'll look forward
to seeing you sometime in 2025.

Scott (01:23:06):
Same to you and yours.
I'll see you next year.
Okay.
Take care.

Trey (01:23:11):
That was a really fun episode.

Mike (01:23:13):
Oh yeah, Scott is a great storyteller.
He is.
And he's been around theindustry a long time.
Has a lot of wisdom.

Trey (01:23:20):
Oh yeah.
Y'all have a lot ofsimilarities in many ways.
It's crazy with the landscape side,the Christmas trees in the beginning.

Mike (01:23:27):
I didn't know there were that many layers of similarities.
So I knew there was quite a fewbut I am older, so I did it first.

Trey (01:23:34):
You set the trends.

Mike (01:23:36):
Although, I guess when I was 18, I think he was 16, so we probably were
working in our Christmas tree lotsthe very first year at the same time.
Yeah.
But a lot of great information forpeople that are new in the industry
to think about and some really goodinformation for homeowners to consider.

Trey (01:23:54):
Yeah, I really like the insight he has for uh, how he balances
like the customer relationship.
And especially that first meeting.
Yeah, it's really cool.

Mike (01:24:01):
always loved talking to him about outdoor kitchens and he could
have talked a lot more about thatand gone into a lot more detail.
But He designs really good spacesfor people to entertain and really
thinks about all the aspects of thatentertainment and what you need to
incorporate to make a space work well.

Trey (01:24:20):
Yeah.

Mike (01:24:21):
He thinks about where the bartender is going to be, where the band's going to
be, and a lot of these things for a largerentertainment groups which don't sometimes
think about all that space as well.

Trey (01:24:32):
It was funny because uh, there's a point in the episode which I was just
quiet because I was trying to absorball this information because we started
talking about the flow of everything Inever thought about like someone getting
a drink and then backing up because I'vehad that experience at a bar before Where
it's like crowded and it's like it's nota great experience, but having that flow
I was like, okay, and did dig in the weedsa little bit about the Outdoor space.

(01:24:53):
So that was cool.
Merry Christmas, everybody.

Mike (01:24:56):
Merry Christmas, everybody.
One of the things I really wantsome input on is we're going to
focus on the beginning of theyear on health and wellness.
Yeah.
And so if there's particular topics you asan audience that like to hear, especially
on health and wellness, I'm going to tryto track down a lot of different things.
But if there's certain things thatreally you have interest in, let us know

(01:25:18):
on our social media or on the Website,wherever you can get us comment and
just share that information, that'd behelpful, but look forward to the new year.

Trey (01:25:27):
You have a good one.
We'll see you in 2025.

Mike (01:25:29):
Take care.

Outro (01:25:36):
This show is all about helping you become a better
buyer, a better pool owner.
And hopefully you're going to find someinsights into how to enjoy your pool, even
more so how to help your friends, yourfamily, anybody looking to buy a pool in
the future or that want to remodel theirbackyard, add an outdoor fireplace, fire
pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells or whatever else it is.

(01:25:59):
We want to be that resource for you.
And that's the end goal here.
And we promise.
That there's going tobe a ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we want to share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.

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