Ep 072 Master Plan to the Backyard Deck and Oasis with DeckSouth

In this episode of the Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast, hosts Mike and Trey Farley from Farley Pool Designs welcome John Lea, a renowned general contractor from Atlanta, Georgia, who specializes in creating stunning outdoor living spaces. John shares his journey in the construction industry, discusses the evolution of Decksouth, and highlights key aspects of building custom decks, pools, and outdoor spaces. The conversation delves into materials, design trends, project management, and the importance of outdoor living in enhancing homeowner wellness. John also sheds light on industry practices and the importance of due diligence in selecting contractors. The episode is packed with valuable information for anyone looking to enhance their outdoor living experience.

00:00 Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast 01:13 Introducing John Lee: A Master of Outdoor Living 03:59 John Lea's Journey into Construction 06:24 The Evolution of Decksouth 08:25 Designing Luxury Outdoor Spaces 11:23 Exploring Outdoor Kitchen Features 16:31 Decksouth's Bread and Butter 20:01 Choosing the Right Deck Materials 23:19 Innovations in Deck Framing and Railing 30:05 Finding a Quality Deck Builder 31:53 NADRA and Community Projects 33:05 Showcasing Decksouth's Expertise 34:23 Transforming Outdoor Spaces 34:59 Innovative Deck Construction Techniques 37:44 Engineering and Permitting Challenges 38:55 Staircase Design and Maintenance 41:43 DIY vs. Professional Deck Building 43:48 The Importance of Outdoor Lighting 44:27 Technological Advancements in Construction 45:04 True Crime Stories in Construction 49:34 Design Awards and Showroom Highlights 52:56 Advice for Homeowners 57:33 The Wellness Trend in Outdoor Living 01:02:24 Personal Insights and Reflections 01:07:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts  

 

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor LivingPodcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we'vehelped homeowners turn their
backyards into personal retreats.
Spaces of joy, relaxation,and unforgettable memories.
And whether it's a cozy escape or aresort style oasis, we design it all.

(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, we're
here to share our knowledge, helping younavigate the process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips to
turn your vision into reality.

(00:45):
And since this is about creatingsomething amazing together,
drop a comment if you have any.
Questions, ideas, or just wantto be part of the conversation.
If you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.

(01:12):
Well, This is Mike Farley.
We're talking luxury outdoorliving today, and we've got
a great guest coming with us.
John has a deck companyin Atlanta, Georgia.
And the decks that he does way beyondanything I ever did, and I did some deck
work when I was in Northern California,because we had a lot of redwood there

(01:33):
the stuff that he's doing is all over theplace with all kinds of exotic woods and
they're doing pools andoutdoor livings as well.
company has evolved from justdecks to everything from a luxury
outdoor living environment.
So he fits right in with whatwe're covering on the podcast.
Perfect.
So do you have a good week?
had an amazing week.

(01:54):
Sports have been rough lately though.
Texas lost I didn't watchthe national championships.
Obviously the national championshipwas Ohio state versus Texas.
Either way I'm a reallyexcited for this conversation.
So let's get into it.
John Lee is a highly regardedlicensed general contractor based in
Atlanta, Georgia with a remarkablecareer spanning over two decades.

(02:17):
Since 1998, he's been in the foremostof designing and building elegant
outdoor living spaces and transformingordinary lards into stunning retreats.
With an unwavering commitment toexcellence, John's expertise extends
to crafting comprehensive outdoorenvironments, encompassing everything
from luxury pools to inviting decks,cozy porches, versatile patios, and

(02:42):
fully equipped outdoor kitchens.
His visionary approach to the outdoorliving design and construction has
left an enduring mark on more than 2,000 properties through the southeast.
In addition to his outstandingcontributions to the construction
industry, John is recognized forhis dedication to the professional
development and industry advocacy.

(03:04):
He proudly serves as the ambassador.
Board of North American Deck andRailing Association, where his
insight and leadership continueto help shape the industry.
John's passion for creating outdoorliving spaces that seamlessly blend
functionally form and aesthetics hasearned him a well deserved reputation
as a trusted expert in the industry.

(03:26):
He resides in the Metro Atlantawith his wife and four children.
Look forward to talking to John.
guys.
excited to be here.
I appreciate it.
thank you for being here today.
And John, that's quite the biothat you have that we went through.
So you've been doing this a while.
I think my office managerran that through chat GPT.

(03:47):
I'm not sure.
It had some words in itthat I had to look up.
So 26 years, a lotagainst the wall, right?
Some of it sticks, some of it doesn't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it's always an interestingstory and finding out how people
ended up where they are now.
So did that go about you gettinginto the construction industry?
Great question, Mike.
So, as a kid, I was always curious.
I grew up like a puppy dog followingmy grandfather around his workshop.

(04:10):
And so always had anaffinity towards things of.
Carpentry and craftsmanshipand wood and so forth.
I wasn't the greatest student.
I just grinded it out.
after school, landed a job with a builderdoing his punch out build little stoops to
get into the garage and things like that.
The Olympics had just happened in Atlanta.
So I came back to Atlanta and Istarted working for a deck company
that was out of the Northeast and theywere opening up multiple locations.

(04:34):
And so I helped them open up theirAtlanta shop and their Charlotte shop.
so I got some really goodexperience under someone else's
dime, kind of trial by fire.
Managing teams of men that were olderthan me and so learned from my mistakes.
thought I was going to stick with it,had no idea it was a sinking ship.
And so when that came to light,that's when I started Deck South.
I'd like to say it was some burningbush epiphany, but it was just

(04:57):
like, man, I got some bills to pay.
I got to get after it.
my whole life I was, building tree stands,building lofts college, in high school,
I had my own landscaping company whereI cut, very small time stuff but learned
the value of a dollar early on from theage of 12 on of what that looked like.
And so, probably was alwaysdestined to be my own boss because
I was not a very good employee.

(05:17):
Yeah, I don't think thatwas my strong suit ever.
that's it in a nutshell,least the original days of
Dex out the initial dates.
when you first started, did you stillhave a fairly good sized crew when you
started your company or was it just you
the whole thing went belly up.
I started Deck South I had one gentleman,Scott Millspot, that worked with me
and he was on two days, off three.

(05:38):
He was a fireman.
We ran that kind ofsituation about a year or so.
In the evening, I'd stick myhead under the hose bib, put
a Deck South shirt on go sell.
And during the day, swing the hammer.
And then I was a whole lot more productivethe days that he was with me, for sure.
gosh, I don't know, about ayear and a half into it or so.
I hired my first employee, Rincon,and he's actually still with me today.

(05:58):
that's when things started to won't saytake off, but certainly started to become
more of a business than just a hobby.
that's where it all started.
Prior to the 2010 recession,you know, we got up there with
a bunch of crews and we've beenall over the map over the years.
But was small beginning thereat the very start of it.
today deck south, tell usbriefly what, there was some in

(06:20):
your bio is y'all's sweet spot?
What do you guys like to do?
It started in 98 withthe deck and deck only.
back then a custom deck was gettingparaffin wax injected, running a Roman
OG bit around the edges of the deck andputting a little piece of one by four trim
on the diagonal and you've got a customdeck, the Delta between the standard
deck and a custom deck back then was verytoday it's a whole new ball game, right?

(06:42):
Started out with the name DeckSouth one deck at a time and
that's how we served our clients.
In the mid, I don't know, 05, 06,somewhere in there, 07, we started
to do wall work, patio work.
It was just a natural migration.
the housing market in Atlanta, 85,88%, something like that of the
homes have a walkout basement lot.

(07:03):
So you walk out the kitchendoor and you're 10 feet down.
So for us building a deckwas the hub of it all.
You exited the house and itwas the hub of the backyard.
And tear down into a patio.
As things evolved over the years we juststarted to offer our clients more and
more services in the backyard and today welike to say we build beautiful backyards
we got into building pools back in 218,and was an opportunity for us to own the

(07:29):
backyard and turn it back over to theclient without there being all those Oops,
I thought he was going to do the drainage.
Oh, I didn't know the gas line was there.
Oops, all those things that justdon't service the client well.
And over the years we had worked withton of pool companies in Georgia a ton
of different companies that would bringus in or we would work in tandem with.
And as 217, 218 approached we realizedthat if we were able to take that

(07:52):
backyard, own it, so to speak,and return it back to the client.
Completed with the concept thatwe built for them in the design
phase, then we felt like we wereservicing them the best way we could.
And so that's where we are now.
Some 6, 7 years later,that's still where we hover.
We can still build a single deckas good as anybody out there.
That's just not necessarily whatwe do on a day to day basis.

(08:14):
Our projects deck, a porch, a patio,outdoor kitchen louvered pergola
wall work pool, full backyard outdoorliving, if you will, know that well,
yeah
outdoor living.
the process starts, how do youtypically, you're not drawing something
on the back of a, eight and a halfby 11 tablet to create that backyard.

(08:36):
Like you did probably long,long ago I would guess.
So how does someone, start a process ofcreating a luxury outdoor living space?
Yeah.
So for us, it starts withwhat I call brain dump.
With our client, really gettingan idea of what they're looking
for now and what they're lookingfor three to five years later.

(08:56):
Rob, our lead designer.
He and I sit down, work through adesign that we can present to the
client that really allows them tohopefully have an emotional buy into.
I've always subscribed to thetheory that if we can design it for
they'll figure out a way to make ithappen from a commitment standpoint,
because, these projects aren't cheap.

(09:16):
and they don't take a week.
Heck, they don't even take a month, right?
So there's a lot of buy in from thefamily to really make these things happen.
my initial call if I'm inthe backyard, I do some hand
sketches that are just for me.
Talk through with the clientwhat they're looking to do.
And then we return witha full blown design.
And that's where all thefun starts to happen.
my mind, when they start to seeit come together, we use SketchUp.

(09:38):
We render it in a few different softwares.
Lumion's a favorite, V Ray is another one.
But all starts in SketchUp.
So you can really give them areally good feel for the space.
So based on what you're speakingabout, there's gotta be quite
a bit of elevation change in atypical backyard than in Atlanta.
if you got to walk out basement,that's at least 10 feet.

(09:59):
I saw some of the stuff onyour website, it's a lot more
than 10 feet in some cases.
we're on one right now.
That's a 42 foot drop between the footingof our lower wall to the kitchen door.
we have challenging slopes which.
Obviously creates opportunity for us to dosomething special for the client, right?
So today's different than it used to be,water levels and all that back in the day.

(10:19):
Now, we can use product called Moser,you know, where I could walk around
the backyard and get elevations.
We've used hover.
When I meet with the client, I cantake specific photos that go in the
cloud, and then their proprietaryprocess sends us back 29 pages of
measurements for the entire house.
Why that's important for us is itcreates digital file of the home.

(10:42):
We can pull it into SketchUp.
We can design the project in the backyard,side yard, wherever, all the way around
and it's the actual house, right?
it used to take Rob as long to buildthe house in our designs as sometimes
it does to do the actual design.
So anyway we try to implementcurrent technology, right?
Hover.
Moser design and sketch up.
It's a long way away fromwhere it all started.

(11:05):
It started with a piece of vellumand a scale and, pencil and, if you
squint, it's in 3d, everything wasright here, there was no technology
like we can present to the client today.
So whole new approach.
Oh, yeah.
We're going to take a break here fora second and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we liketo go to barbecue bits here.

(11:26):
We're going to share some informationof everything that you may want to
consider in your outdoor living space.
As far as features,especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.
All right.
So here's another type of griddleBobby, tell us about this one.
So this, let's go back to the conversationwe had on the Evo where we talked about,

(11:48):
let's go through discovery phase withthe customer and find out if we're going
to do a connection piece to that unit,or is this going to be in the inline
bar where the cooking equipment is?
So this is more of the inline bar.
That's going to have the grill.
or the cooking center.
This is a special griddle.
Why is it special?
Well, it's made in Texas.
We like that.
Um, it was from France last year.

(12:10):
They moved the facilitydown in South Texas.
And what makes this griddle special?
Um, you can get it any fuel source.
It also comes in electric.
So the two zone.
Uh, comes in electric.
Let me get the zones.
Zone one, you've got a two zoneand they make a three zone.
Um, also it's all stainlesssteel, 304 stainless as we,

(12:32):
you'd seen in our other cast.
Uh, what's 304 stainless?
It has a high quality of chromium andnickel in it, will not pit or rust.
But what is the secretingredient to this griddle?
It's a dual plate technology.
So the bottom of this cast iron.
It's grafted to the stainless steel plateand the energy off of these new burners
create a really, really even surface.

(12:53):
And you do not get a carcinogen burn in.
Ease of use as far ascleaning, no special oils.
If I were to cook on this grill,I would turn it on, hit olive oil,
and I'm ready to cook right now.
And that would be different than the Evo?
It is.
Evo is going to be, you've got towatch heat management with Evo.
It's extremely hot.
It taps out at about 550, 600 degrees.
Um, but you'll find that youwill not burn on this particular

(13:15):
vehicle versus other griddles.
Um, where's the grease relief at?
People are looking at us right now.
Hey, where, where's the grease go?
Yeah, well, it goes right into here.
I can line this with, uh, aluminum foil.
And then drag, uh, the product here.
How do I clean it?
You get a cleaning, you know,you want to buy a cleaning kit.
You got a rigid scraper.

(13:35):
You'll turn the unit up high,and then you'll put ice on here.
And then the ice counteracts withthe heat under the plate, and then
you just scrape it off, and thenyou only use a, um, A scrubber
that's, that's recommended for this.
So, it's um, it's very easy to use, so.
So what's the dimensions on that?
You can go into, uh, this one's,uh, 16, this one's 30, and then

(13:59):
we're 36 to 37 on the, on the, onthe, um, on the three zone, so.
So for, for a consumer, ease of use,sort of sounds to me like you're saying
that one might be Easier to maintain andcook on and maybe something like that,
which might require a little more skill.
It is in space too.

(14:19):
If they want that particular experience,I can go one zone dedicated, two or three.
These also come with liners.
We know that some of our customerslike to do nature cast companies
or, you know, custom cabinetry.
You can build this in.
And then the griddle sits inside of here.
And then this is not acooking lid down like a grill.

(14:40):
This is a steam lid.
It does two things.
It keeps it clean.
It keeps bird bombs off of it.
Uh, when I'm not using it.
But then, uh, you'll havea water bottle in here.
Uh, you'll find out what your temperatureis when you hit water with it.
When the water begins to bounce.
That's your starting point to cook.
If I were to put patties on here.
And flip them and put my cheese, I wouldput water over here, squirt water on

(15:03):
it, pull it down, and, you know, 10 to15 seconds, quick steam, and the cheese
melts without having to melt onto the,onto the product here, onto the plate, so.
So to your point, this works reallywell in that, um, inline layout.
That's kind of like a destination place.
Hey, let's go to theteppanyaki grill and cook.
And

(15:23):
not to just shine on these twoproducts like Ebo and LaGriddle.
Every company that we've showedyou, Al Fresco has a 30 inch
griddle, uh, that component flowswith everything that they sell.
It just depends on the questions,discovery phase questions.
We ask the customer, Hey,how do you see entertaining?
How do you see cooking?
What would you like to learn how to cook?

(15:44):
Uh, those type of.
Uh, discovery phase questions will leadus into what type of component we sell.
And don't you guys do something onthe weekends here where you're like
showcasing cooking on certain things?
We do.
We're a big ceramic store.
We always have been.
You'll see us with thepellet grill in the front.
We'll get to that nextsegment in a little bit.
We always cook in front of our store.

(16:04):
Do we do samples?
No, we just, uh, we cook for ourselves,but we also show how the equipment
operates live and that helps, uh,vernacular and some of the customers
understanding how to do that.
Got
it.
It's cool.
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecuebits that we just featured today and
we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and

(16:27):
we'll get back into the episode now.
I'm wondering, because I do want toask you a certain question before I
do that with Deck South, what wouldyou say your bread and butter is now?
Because obviously thecompany's evolved over time.
That's a great question, man.
I had a customer say, hey, Why deck south?
Why not change the name?
and he went through the whole list ofthings we did for him and his family.
I said, yeah, that's a great question.

(16:48):
I wonder if it makes sensefor us to change our name.
I don't know.
So we hired a company tocome in and do some research.
They interviewed, I don't know, Ithink it was 75 or 80 past clients and
went into the marketplace of Atlanta.
But they came back and said, there'sequity in the name, keep the name.
I said, Oh, awesome.
Can I get my money back?
And they promptly said no.
The name stayed the same, but ourbread and butter has changed, right?

(17:09):
It used to be just a deck.
It grew into Our first six figure deckwas end of 2011 early to 12 when that
happened and I realized, wow, we haveclients paying us more than I paid for
my first home and they're paying us, tobuild decks and porches in their backyard.
This is amazing.
And it just grew from there.
And I think it allowed us toshow what we're capable of.

(17:30):
It allowed future clientsto see what's possible.
And it just grew from there.
So in today's world our bread andbutter, our client that I think we
service best is one that needs multipletrades in their backyard to come
together and create something special.
And so we're able to do a pretty darngood job at that, where it's I had a
client recently go, John I'm wonderingif I need to Go get a competitive

(17:53):
bid, but I don't know who to call.
Do I call a wall company, a deck company,a pool company, a kitchen company, a
putting green company, a patio companyhe goes through the whole thing.
And I said, Casey, I don't know, man,don't know what to tell you there.
I don't envy your spot, butwe're here if you need us.
And, we're in the middle of that project.
our sweet spot, our honey hole wouldbe to service that client that needs
more than just a deck that needs itall to come together and be managed.

(18:15):
Okay, yeah, it seems like y'allhave really good craftsmanship.
With luxury outdoor living, awood deck is a timeless feature.
Why do you think that is?
Because you work with them so much.
Yeah, I think it's regional, Again,where we are, certainly where you guys
are, the topography is different, right?
So you've got decks that aren't,let's face it, if we were in
Florida, maybe we were calledPatio South, not Deck South, right?

(18:37):
The topography is different.
We also are regionally geographicallyin the southeast United States,
where a lot of the pressure treatedsouthern yellow pine is harvested,
South Georgia, North Florida.
So we're in the pressuretreated hotbed, if you will.
And so it's taken a longtime to get clients To think
about something different.
I know my colleagues up north andeven out west had a quicker transition

(19:00):
over to composites and even some morealternative frames in the last 5 to 15,
18 years where the industry has changed,it's been a little slower move, I think,
historically or traditionally in thesoutheast because there's so much pressure
treated pushed onto the marketplace.
We don't build decks that are SouthernYellow Pine finished anymore, right?

(19:22):
Southern Yellow Pine stillhas its place in the market.
If it's a wood deck for us, it's going tobe an imported lumber, like Ipe, Kumru,
Jatoba, all the different hardwoods.
Because, for us, guys know this, andyou see it in Texas with the sun and
what it does to Southern Yellow Pine.
It's not fair to actually tell theclient, Hey, pay good money for
this, and it's going to stand thetest of time because it's not right.

(19:44):
It's just simply not.
And sometimes you lose clients becausethey say, you don't build a wood deck.
we're going to find somebody that does.
I say, get it.
I understand.
You're going to be mad at me if Ibuild you a pressure treated wood
deck in a year and a half from now,it looks like it's five years old.
So Do you use a lot ofsynthetic product as well?
It's one of the questions I wascurious about is there's got to be

(20:04):
pros and cons of different materialsthat you go through with a homeowner.
So do you mind walkingthrough some of that?
Sure, Mike.
So, you know, I tell clients, I try toequate it to the automobile industry
and I say this upfront, you're goingto pay more for a synthetic deck
product, a manmade deck product,but unlike the original days.
Of composites the synthetic compositespvcs, whichever way you go the man made

(20:29):
deck products Now they have warrantyagainst all the things that wood does
cracking cupping warping twisting fadingall of that in the early days, they
didn't I used to show people, Compositeand there's four different colors and
i'd be like go ahead and pick one inabout six months They're all going to
fade to gray anyway So whichever oneyou pick it's just going to be great
like where do I sign up for that?
So that was a little bit of aharder Scenario back then today.

(20:51):
a different animal.
So I tell clients this.
I compared to the automobile industryand say, Hey, if you went and bought
a car and all the maintenance wastaken care of, it's going to be more
to get into it initially, but it's alltaken care of for the life of the car.
The total cost of ownershipdoes go down over time.
Or you can go in and buy the bare bonescar minimum and you pay as you go.

(21:11):
That's like the wood versussynthetic deck argument.
It's still hard to compare the two.
Because one a domestic woodproduct like pine, cedar, all
that, it's going to age day one.
Whereas the inherent beauty of asynthetic deck board is no one's ever
going to walk across and go, OMG,as my daughter says this is the most
gorgeous whatever they are going to go.

(21:34):
Wow.
Is this that fake wood?
It looks really good.
They're going to come back 10 yearslater and it looks exactly the same.
So the inherent beauty in it is that it.
Doesn't really age.
So I take our clients to that, right?
I tell them this we may not betheir builder, but I do promise
them that when we part ways,they'll be more educated, right?
think it's our job to be asmuch of a consultant as it is a

(21:56):
contractor and try to guide them ina direction that would make sense.
And a lot of times for me it's lookingat their backyard as if it were mine.
Okay.
How would my wife and Iexist in the backyard?
How would our kids exist in the backyard?
sometimes I feel like that'sthe best way I can service them.
In doing that, I try to educatethem on the deck boards and
what makes sense for them.
if you were using real wood, whatis probably the best longevity wood,

(22:20):
if you're staying in it properlyand doing the maintenance properly.
Yeah.
Are we talking topical like deckingand rail, like the flats, right?
Always e pay.
you look at the JNCA reportreport the rigidity of wood,
longevity of wood, all that.
It pays somewhere in the top fivealways, and this is all woods.
On the planet, right?
Cedar and pine are like number threehundred four hundred five, right?

(22:42):
he pays always like numbertwo or number three.
So super dense, super hard use it.
It's stable.
So it stays together.
So it represents our carpentry the way itshould, where it's not coming apart and
later on, you're like, man, what happened?
They make a bad cut.
definitely takes that trophy.
That's good.
Cause when we use real wood, it's EPA.
Yeah.
we don't do a whole lot of decks so it'sjust that we don't have, A, the elevation

(23:06):
the other thing is, most wood, it's cominga long ways to get to us so, there's that
issue as well from a cost standpoint,
We're usually using it as likea accent, if we do use it.
Yeah, it's more of an aesthetic feature.
than function, today is a lot ofyour framing is that do you use steel
or are you using wood or, has thatchanged a lot over the last 25 years?

(23:31):
It has.
We have not gone exclusively to steel.
We have not gone exclusively toa composite frame and there's
both on the market, right?
We've used both and it has its place.
Our water type system Thatwe've been using since 1999.
allows our frame to stay completely dryand not see the UV sun ever touch water.

(23:51):
So we can still provide clientswood frame that's going to last
much longer than a wood framethat's exposed to the elements.
So when we quote steel, when we quotecomposite frame, that's significantly
more than a wood frame as it should be.
When clients ask me, is thatadditional cost worth it?
And we start looking at it.
That's one reason why we haven'tgone all into the steel and the

(24:12):
composite because our watertightsystem does protect our wood frame.
But yeah the steel options that areout there, there's a couple of them
and I'm sure there's a few morethat are about to hit the market.
There's a compositeframe option out there.
They've come a long way and for anyonethat's going to have what I call an
exposed deck, one that allows waterto run through the decking across
the frame itself and either dripdown or go into a catch system below

(24:36):
that, then steel and composite frame.
Is really the only way to go becausethat's the only way that you're
going to be able to offer your clientsomething that's going to last, right?
You've got a 50 year deck boardthat you're putting on a frame.
The gamble is if it's exposed to waterand sunlight, then it's just not going
to have the life expectancy that itused to back before January 1st of 2005.

(24:59):
When the EPA mandated a pressuretreated switchover they no longer
allowed CCA to be embedded into wood.
CCA standing for chromium copper arsenic.
The day that happened was theday it changed the industry.
From 1997 to 05, we've never any wood rot.
just doesn't happen.
the guild was doing.

(25:19):
So the company said, okay,we're going to take a book out
of the European union's page.
And we're going to use what they're hadmultiple variations over the years,
but fast growth on the trees, chemicalthat's not as strong as it used to
be, equate to a recipe for disaster.
you've got that type of pressuretreated being provided as a substructure
with a 40, 50 year deck board.

(25:41):
And the frame's not goingto last half that long.
So again, if you have a deck that'sgoing to be exposed to the elements steel
there's actually an aluminum productnow that's a frame product, composite.
Those alternative frames wouldbe the way to go for sure.
So there's probably pros and cons.
That's something you walk throughwith the customer and they also the
cost variables so they can come upwith what's going to be best for them.

(26:05):
Is that how it typically goes?
Yeah, exactly.
my biggest fear as a contractoris a client telling me after
we've started their project.
Hey, John, I found out about product ABC.
Why didn't you tell me about that?
That's the stuff thatkeeps me up at night.
I want to make sure that, Hey,let's talk about everything.
Mr. Jones, Mrs. Jones.
Let's look at differentdeck board products.
Let's look at different trim finishes.

(26:25):
Let's look at cable railversus aluminum rail.
Let's look at, a paverpatio versus something else.
Whatever makes sense for their backyard.
I want to try my best to explore itwith them so they can make the best
decision because it really, at theend of the day, and you know this,
Mike, it's a collaboration, right?
It's a collaboration with us and theclient of getting them to where they
Want to get to with their backyard.

(26:46):
You just mentioned one of the thingsthat I had on my list, which was railing.
So that's got to be somethingalso that's changed dramatically
over the last 20 years.
It has,
what do you do the most of now?
Aluminum, black aluminum.
Textured black aluminum.
It's one and done.
Doesn't take any maintenance.
It dies into the landscapeas you look through it.
From there we'd get up intoglass, we get up into cable rail.

(27:09):
Both of those options are more expensivethan just a straight black aluminum.
take the deck board that we're walkingon and we put it on top of the rail to
try to marry the two and soften it up.
So there's a few tricks that we do to itkind of customize the rail a little bit.
We don't just take it off the shelfand put it in place and call it done.
But black aluminum is handsdown Our most popular rail.

(27:30):
cause you mentioned glass.
Have you messed with thecracked glass panels?
I've seen them on social media, they like,crack the glass panels for the railing.
You know what I'm talking about?
We have not.
Okay.
we have not.
I haven't met anyone that has yet.
It's so weird, but it's a trend,
yeah, it's a little bit weird becauseyou can't see through it, right?
it's a cool tempered look, butthen it's you can't see through it.
It takes away that the whole reasonfor glass, the glass today is crazy.

(27:53):
Illuminated.
There's a company that actually you canwatch a movie on your glass handrail.
You can watch Monday nightfootball on your glass handrail.
It's come a long way.
That's awesome.
That's cool.
I didn't know that youcould watch a movie on it.
I knew they had illuminated, but
what's it called?
Sphere in Vegas.
Yeah.
Same kind of technology.
I always thought looking at the sphere.
It was just all these TVs faced inwardwhere you could actually stand at the

(28:17):
sphere and look through it from anexterior point of view and look through
the glass and look all the way through it.
And it's like, wait a minute, ifthat's glass, how do they learn?
So it's this wholeilluminated glass thing.
And so they brought that technologyto Glass handrail on decks.
So it's not just handrail thatgets illuminated from a color
standpoint, but it can actuallyhave a picture projected inside it.
I didn't even realize it was glass.

(28:37):
That's crazy.
Cause I've been to Vegas onceand I thought it was just
a bunch of like LED lights.
so don't quote me on that.
I could be wrong about that whole thing.
. I just know that in theconversation with the manufacturer,
there was some conversationabout that type of technology.
I don't know that the sphereis a hundred percent glass.
I just know that it's that similartechnology for what they're bringing
to the table in the deck rail world.

(28:58):
So y'all do pools now.
I remember back when I worked inconstruction on a bunch of backend
jobs I saw, they would do coverswith wood decks, raised wood decks
that would roll over the pool.
And then you could roll it back overto have an elevated deck by the pool.
y'all have any experience with that?
We have designed that twice andoffer it to a client it didn't stick.

(29:18):
Thing about it is, it'slike a barn door, right?
So if you have a five foot wide barndoor that covers the five foot space,
you've got to have 10 feet of room forthat barn door to completely slide it.
So you got your pool and thenthe deck slides off of it.
If your pools, 18 by 36 or whatever, yougotta have at least that enough room.
So, We'd love to do it.
Haven't done it yet.
I wasn't sure any like downsides of it.

(29:39):
I'm sure they would use syntheticwood because obviously for most pool
covers, the benefit of it is obviouslylike safety and stuff like that,
keeping your pool heated for longer.
And so you have all that, allthat moisture underneath that.
I'm sure that would deteriorate wood easy.
The pool covers that we've usedso far over the years have been.
Your standard pool covers comeout from the coping put them

(30:01):
on a drum and a vault, right?
The safe space
compared to the wood
deck.
Yeah.
So when a homeowner is looking for aprofessional to do a deck for them,
how do they find somebody that?
Does good work.
Yeah.
that's another great question.
the best advice I could give them,and I would hope that they do this
is go to the NADRA website, which isour association for deck builders.

(30:25):
NADRA stands for North Americandeck and rail association.
And for about 20 years the NADRAheadquarters team really done a good
job putting together A collectionof contractors around the country
that are like minded, do good workthat would be where I would urge a
client to start sometimes it's hard.
I've said this to clients before.
I don't envy Their position becauseyou get one outfit that's quoting

(30:47):
this way and it doesn't make sense.
You get some else quoting that wayand they're looking at it like,
ah, so I'm certain it's a toughplace to be in at times, but looking
a good deck builder to be Naja.
You add social media to that too.
So you have the rise of all thesepeople that utilize social media.
Maybe they're not a great builder, buttheir social media platform looks amazing.
Yeah, man that's a great point.
you know, I social mediagood, better and different.

(31:09):
It perception could be interesting, right?
You could really perceive thingsto be better than they are.
flip side of that, too.
I was talking to a good friend of minewho travels the country for manufacturing.
We're talking about the fact that thereare a ton of good guys out there in
the pool world and in the deck worldand the outdoor living space that
just don't get on social media, butthey're still out there kicking tail.

(31:29):
And they do good work, just don'tknow about them as much because
they're not on social media,
not their thing.
So charlie claffey is claimed thathe's never been on facebook or he
doesn't even know what instagram is.
But he's got people that do.
So that helps his situation.
But there's certainly people outthere that do fabulous work that.

(31:51):
Social media has nothing to do with them.
So is Nadra provide trainingfor people in the industry?
They do.
Yeah.
They have some classes, master deckclasses, and there's networking
that's strong leaning on.
different contractors inside the network,think is a big plus for NADRA but they
do offer classes and I know that'sgoing to continue in the coming years

(32:14):
to go a little deeper in their offering.
That's cool.
You're involved with theorganization to some extent, right?
I was lucky enough to be one of the guysin the beginning there to help start it.
And 20 years later,it's still going strong.
And I help out As often as I can, we'vegot an Atlanta chapter meeting coming up.
I should not call it chapter anymore.
It's a national meeting, butit's happening in Atlanta.

(32:34):
So instead of having chapters now, themeeting just circles around the country.
So that's coming up in February, but.
We're in the middle ofworking for a bill right now.
It's a partnership between NADRA anothercharitable organization where we're
able to provide a deck and a louveredroof system for a family that has a
little six year old that has a conditionthat she can't be in direct sunlight.

(32:56):
So NADRA annually tries todo a deck for a soldier.
we get back to a soldier in need forus on this build, it's a little bit
different, but Great organization.
The
projects you're working on now is thereone that, encapsulates everything that
you guys try to do as a company, orone that you've done recently that,
does that, if you could describeto us what you did for a client.

(33:18):
the ones that really exciteme where we can show off.
Our talents and again, the wholebackyard for us, our metric that we talk
about on our Tuesday morning meetings.
It's no longer numbers about, howbig is the volume of the project
and what's the square footage?
it's all about changing lives.
So the metric that we look atevery Tuesday is how many lives

(33:38):
do we change this past week?
And that came from a client that sharedwith me that we had changed the way their
family lives in their property with thebuild that they had us build for them.
The jobs that get me excitedare the ones that we can go in
and do something special, right?
Where a client goes, I've talked toa few people and they say this can't
be built or whatever, and you guysknow there's a tendency sometimes

(33:59):
for a contractor to give an opinionabout what can or can't be built.
And really, when you deduce it downto what it is, it's whether or not
they want to build it or not, right?
I think us, it's providing somethingthat always gets me inspired, right?
Oh, somebody said it can't be done?
I'll See you tomorrowat nine o'clock, right?
Like, Let's brainstorm and figureout how we're gonna make this work.
So, We're on a few right nowthat allow us to do that.

(34:20):
we're going in and the pool wasneglected and we're remodeling the pool.
We're doing a new patiofull blown outdoor kitchen.
We like to open up the windows and put insliding glass doors so we can seamlessly
tie in the indoors to the outdoors andreally Try to create a space where they
can exist and change their lives, right?
Again, nothing against theclient wants us to build a deck

(34:41):
and great, we'd love to do it.
I get excited about the ones thesedays that we can offer lot more than
that and really change that backyardand hopefully in turn change the
client's lives and the family's livesand how they exist in that space.
Yeah, that goes back to, youknow, taking over the whole
yard and giving it back to them.
That's awesome.
Yes.
Yeah.
One thing when I was looking atyour social media, one of the first

(35:01):
things that pops up is the elevateddeck and be able to put the inserts
into the brick instead of havingthe columns right next to the wall.
Can you walk us through that processa little bit, or maybe the, just the
pros of it or tricks or whatever.
great question.
I think it was 15 or16 Georgia implemented.
So say Georgia follows the IBCinternational building code and

(35:22):
so they implemented code thatsays, Hey, no longer can a deck be
attached to a home that's brick.
Cladded and use the home asa point of support, right?
Think table.
if you look at the side of a deck, you'vegot the legs at the front of the deck.
You got legs at the back ofthe deck, which is the house.
And it's a freestanding deck,basically tight to the brick wall.

(35:44):
Cause apparently somewhere the brickhad failed when guys had tried to
bolt the deck to the house and crankdown on the nut and washer and it
tweaked the brick and everythingI've never seen that in 26 years,
but apparently it happened somewhere.
So the code changed.
And so, for us with an elevated deck,most of our clients won't living space
below and sometimes brick at the house.
If I'm standing underneath the deck,I walk out of the basement door.

(36:06):
I'm under the deck postsat the house are okay.
it's not a, Terrible deal for houses thatare cut up that have a lot of angles.
Every time the angle of the house changesWe've got to drop a post in there.
So we worked with an engineer yearsago who put together brick bracket for
a builder in the state of georgia thatevolved And now gary's got a bracket
called the h7 bracket and it allowsus to cut a hole in the brick Insert

(36:31):
this engineer bracket bolt that to theframing of the house and then our deck
sits in the flange of that bracketand then we flash around the bracket.
So we basically void the brick that way.
We can offer our clients a space belowtheir deck that when they turn around
and look at their house wall, they don'tsee vertical posts supporting the deck.
Doesn't have to happen with a sided house.

(36:53):
And we can work around it with stuccohouses, but brick it's a real good
offering so that we can have a cleanhouse wall there with no posts.
That bracket, is it moresupportive than the old style?
Because now it's not justsitting on top of the brick, but
it's also bolted in the house.
Yeah.
You know, In the old days we'd takethree two by sixes or even two
by 10 and we'd stack it out threeply and this is pre brick, right?

(37:17):
And then we'd bolt the ledgerthrough those three two buys.
And so when the masons came up, theywould brick the house, but they can
brick behind our ledger board, right?
Because it packed it out a little bit.
So that was how it used to be.
No longer was that allowed.
And really for us we get into a houseafter it's been purchased, right?
After people are living in it,we're not getting in pre brick.

(37:38):
yes, much stronger have all theengineer reports on them, right?
So, checks a really big box.
When you're designing a deck likethat's elevated how do you calculate
okay, this wall right here can holdthis much of this deck because it's
like 50 percent of the deck, right?
So how do you get that information?
So we work with engineers.
So we've got an engineer that we'veworked with for 16 years now, and

(38:00):
he stamps all of our plans, right?
So when we go to get a permit,which George is pretty strict
with the permitting process, allof our construction drawings are
stamped by structural engineer.
So all of that's takeninto account pre permit.
Do they plan for snow loads?
Like, uh, last week, uh, some people got
very little snow loads, but wehad a There were, some parts of

(38:21):
Atlanta that had six inches, whichis just a rarity around deer.
Oh yeah.
Crazy.
any?
We got some, the storm before,that last storm that came
through it went south of us.
Houston got it.
We didn't get anything but Houstonhad snow, but they claim they'll
rebuild and they'll be better.

(38:43):
Which is great.
my wife, she grew up in the Panhandlearea and down by Pensacola, Perdido
Key area, they got six inches.
Like she was saying she cannever remember that in her life.
Yeah.
It's very crazy.
So with all this elevation, you guys mustbuild a lot of do you construct stairs?
They framed or theymetal or they combined?

(39:05):
Is it just like the framing of the deck?
how does that work?
Yep.
So in 26 years, Mike, I can't remembertoo many people that ever went on
a project and we're like, Oh mygosh, those are the amazing stairs.
Stairs are utilitarian thing.
They get you from point A to pointB. Now that doesn't mean that we
can't build beautiful stairs, butthat's not typically ever an item
that someone looks at and goes, man,and they overlook everything else.

(39:27):
So stairs are an interesting one, right?
Obviously we're, wehave an eight inch rise.
is the most we can do on exteriorstairs on a traditional set of stairs.
So if we've got 120 inch drop fromdeck down, we've got 17 stairs, know,
and that takes up lot of real estate.
So, My favorite are spiral staircases.
I love when we are able to dropin a aluminum spiral staircase

(39:51):
with a big eight foot diameter.
You know, Allows four foot wide treadswith the client can walk around them and
really feel comfortable getting from pointA to point B and they don't kill a lot
of room real estate wise in the backyard.
But I haven't looked at it recently,but I think spirals are probably
they're not quite half of our builds.
They're a little less thanhalf our bills, close.
So traditional stairs we match the deck.

(40:12):
So let's say the deck's going to have agray manufactured composite deck board.
The stairs have the same thing,handrail, it all matches, right?
when the stringers are, cut them outof two by 12 pressure treated pine.
Code them with acrylic tape thattries to protect it, give it
some protection from the weather.
But stairs are a necessary evil.
A lot of times, to get you up from up,10 feet up in the air, down to the patio.

(40:36):
So is maintenance on wood.
Is that something that's do you guys domaintenance later or is that something
staining and all that type of stuff?
Do you get into that?
That used to be a bigpart of our business.
Very little anymore.
you won't see any of our exposedwood Unless it's a hardwood, a
deck board or something like that.

(40:57):
Some of our clients, even on those areokay with the silver patina where we don't
put the oil on and it just grays out,but if it's, for example, our stringers,
you don't stand next to our stairsand see the pressure treated stringer.
It's capped with a PVC tapedfirst cap to the PVC trim second.
And then we paint the trim of the PVCto match the trim color of the house.

(41:18):
So it kind of all gels together.
you know, in Today's world, we'relooking at composite decking,
PVC, trim, aluminum handrail.
There's really very littleto maintain unless of course,
they've chosen a wood deck board.
most people rather have low maintenancethan work on their deck later on.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
I haven't met too many.
They're like, you know what,John, build us something that

(41:38):
takes a ton of maintenance.
Where do we sign up for that?
No, not many.
So the
deck seemed like it's somethingthat all kinds of people
think they can do themselves.
So they run into, Hey, I can gobuild this, I know how to hammer some
nails and that kind of thing, butseems like, decks have become a lot
more complex than they used to be.

(41:59):
Do you still see a lot of people tryingto do it themselves or is it, when
you do designs, you're not designinganything for homeowners to build.
I would assume
no, I mean, occasionally we'll get clientsfrom out of state that are looking for
design that they're then going to havetheir contractor build when we were
offering a different build years agosmaller decks, things like that, 20 years

(42:22):
ago, one of our competitors would be a DIYor, you know, a gentleman that was like,
Hey, I can build this myself because backthen we were offering a project that was.
Smaller in size and scope.
I know that I call on the 49ersapparently in our industry 49
percent of all decks being built.
And by the way, there's 33 milliondecks that come up for renewal to be

(42:43):
built every year in the United States.
And that number comes from isdecks that are over 25 years old.
So 49 percent of those decks thatare actually being built, doesn't
mean 33 million of them are rebuiltevery year, but of the ones that are.
49 percent is the last statistic Iheard that is being built by DIYers
51 percent are by licensed contractorslike ourselves that people are hiring.

(43:05):
So we understand that the 49ers, asI call them, the 49 percent out there
that's a different animal, right?
Nothing wrong with it.
But you're not comparingapples to apples, right?
The projects That we involveourselves in engineered decks, right
They're decks that you walk outunderneath and line of sight is
a real important thing for me.
So when you come out of the basement,your line of sight into your backyard,

(43:26):
you don't want to look at a small forest.
We have a post in 27 feet later over here.
We have another post, right?
And so we have a steel W 1235 beam.
That's holding up that deck and thatdecks can only run over that beam.
The projects that we're putting ourname on to be very difficult for a
D. I. Y. R. to come take that on.
But I do understand that's stilla big part of the marketplace.

(43:47):
It's out there.
Outdoor lighting seems to createa whole nother sense of space
and how people use the space.
that a component of what y'all do as well?
It is.
It's a big part of it.
Lighting is, gosh, it canadd so much value to a build.
Whether it's literally looking throughthe window out to your backyard that

(44:08):
you're currently not using, but youcan stand there and appreciate it.
Because it's illuminated, it's castingshadows it's, it's, washing light.
It's, illuminating pathways, steps,and you it takes on a whole new
look right after the sun goes down.
So big part of our builds lighting.
I'm wondering, you mentionedmoisture and hover earlier.
Is there any like new technologiesor maybe techniques that y'all

(44:30):
been using in the last couple ofyears that have really benefited?
Trey wants to know 'causehe has to measure the house.
Not just actually just moer and hover,but anything else in particular?
Just kidding.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know
,Those are the ones that we've landed on Trey.
there's communication ones for us.
Like we, we use companyCAM and some other things.
We use job trade as our pro so technologywise in terms of managing the job

(44:51):
and staying on top of communicationthrough photos and things like that.
Yeah.
But.
The two big ones for us sitewise is Hover and Mosier.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So one of the things we ask peopleabout is if they've seen something that
happened to a client that you felt likeit was a, what we call a true crime.

(45:14):
Yes.
Is there a project that you've seen?
That, people were either misrepresentedabout what should have happened or
any way, something you could helphomeowners look at and understand,
don't get caught like this.
that's actually how Igot into building pools.
Back in 18, we were on aproject was a large project.

(45:36):
We were doing a deck.
We had a patio kitchen walls.
The pool contractor had startedexcavate the pool in the location
of the pool and realized, I guess,that the soil was inadequate.
I was brought in about a week laterafter conversation went back and forth
between the homeowner and the contractor,and I guess the contractor was, In
some form or fashion trying to continuewith the pool build without addressing

(45:57):
the soil we ended up putting 40 helicalpiers below that pool 12 inch slab of
concrete before the pool was even built.
It was on a pretty steep incline.
It was amazing to me that this gentlemanwas actually wanting to move forward
with the build without what wasactually necessary be built in the back.
So when the client came to me andsaid, hey, can you run with this?

(46:18):
my relationships in theindustry brought in a.
crew that could finish the dig set thecage, do some rough plumbing, and then
had our plumbers, electricians go fromthere and our masons and all that.
But yeah, could probably sit here and gohours and hours with story after story.
Gosh, it's sad, right?
I wonder, What made the clientdecide to hire the contractor

(46:40):
that they've hired, right?
I'm just blown away because youtake a really smart individual
that's does a really good job intheir bubble of the world, right?
successful in what they do.
And then there's just this little bitof a lapse of decision making when it
comes to hiring a contractor, becauseone friend or semi friend said so and so.
So.
I remember another project wherewe were brought into it after it

(47:02):
started to be built and it was awatertight deck that was going over
a large section of living space.
There was an addition to the houseand a big tile deck was going up
top and the way that this framewas set, everything was inferior.
The span charts were off, wayto tear the whole thing down.
They had told the homeowner that a permitwas pulled, find out it wasn't pulled.

(47:25):
stuff that makes you scratch your head.
I don't understand.
And how do they actually think theywere going to get there, literally
going forward without a permit.
And building everything completely wrong.
So I'm sure we could tradewar stories there, right?
Like just stuff that makes you shakeyour head and scratch your head.
I think sometimes people get in a hurryand they just trust one person and they

(47:48):
don't do any research on, the skillsand capabilities or certifications that
people have, and so they just assume.
It worked for one person, itwill work for somebody else.
Yeah.
And sometimes,
yeah, that's a good point, Mike.
we can't fault ourselves ourclients for wanting to actually
believe what someone says.
You see the good in someone, you'relike, oh, they said worked out well.

(48:11):
It's gotta work out for me.
So yeah.
The other thing that I haveclients that always hope for is
that they hope they get a deal.
And I always tell people, when'sthe last time that deal worked
out for you really well, it'sjust, people do it all the time.
The deal is the project getsbuilt, it gets built right.

(48:32):
It's beautiful.
It stays semi on budget.
It stays semi on schedule.
And.
you're using it for decades to come.
Right?
Creating memories.
There's the deal.
Yeah.
The deal is that you don't have tocome back to me and get it remodeled.
Exactly.
And when you call we hope it'sTo say, hey, and we'll answer
the phone when you do call.

(48:52):
Yes, sir.
Any exciting conferences ortravel that you all be doing?
Do you guys do continuingeducation every year?
we've got IBS coming up at the end ofFebruary, which is international building.
show.
That's always a fun one for me.
JLC live is later in Providence.
Later in the year.
Those are fun.
IBS is a fun one because I get to nerdout and walk around and see what's new.

(49:16):
And that, shows massive, right?
But it's construction it can beassociated with the house, it's there.
I saw you at the deck andexpo, A couple of months ago
we'll do that again in October.
looking forward to that.
And looking forward to getting thisstrange January settled in with some
good weather and try to get to some ofthe projects we've got on the board.
So I understand that you guyshave won a lot of design awards.

(49:38):
Rob and I some years ago when werealized that part of our projects
and our offering as our offering.
Rose in project cost and project abilityof what we can do for the client.
We realized what the designaspect for us was doing.
And so we actually created 33 North, whichis the latitude location of our office
here, but it's the ability to give backto our industry and white label some

(50:00):
designs for other guys around the countryhelping them with their design work.
We feel pretty good about our design.
Rob does a phenomenal job.
Our design game is pretty strong.
say that.
And we're able to paint picturesfor our clients really do allow them
to envision what's going to happen.
And we've won some awards for thatover the years, and proud of that.
So is there a place that homeowners can gosee the projects that have those awards?

(50:24):
They can come here to our officeif they're local, and we can
take him through our showroom.
We've got everything from waterlinetile to cable, handrail, to spiral
staircase, to fireplaces, patio workand our showroom is always evolving.
But we try to bring them here to showthem their design that we created
for them, pick out some product.
We do have our awards hanging on the wall.
And most of our clients arehappy to show off their projects.

(50:47):
So I say this all the time, our bestcloser is a past client that allows us
to bring a future client to the propertyand walk them around and show them.
Sometimes future clients havethat time to invest into it.
And, sometimes they don't.
So we like to offer that though.
how far radius do you do around Atlanta?
So we're in the north.

(51:08):
West quadrant of the metro areaof Atlanta, but now a metro is up
to Chattanooga, Tennessee, right?
So, we a territory that recently goingfrom one project to another, Lake Lanier
over to Vinings, an hour and a halfbetween jobs doesn't always land that way.
Sometimes our jobs are 20 minutesapart from each other, but we try

(51:31):
to stay in a somewhere between 35and 50 mile radius of our office.
Okay.
Doesn't always work.
We have tools.
We'll travel if the job callsfor it but we try to stay in that
area we can service them best.
So I'm just out of curiosity.
My dad did a lot of woodworkhe did a lot of timber framing.
you guys ever get into thattype of structural work or is it

(51:52):
not as much as we'd like to but youknow, big rough saw and timber is a
great look and we love when we get aclient that's willing to go all in with
that because it's not for the faintof heart at times, because, what I
love about that type of carpentry isthe framing becomes the finish work.
So what you're looking at and whatis structural is all one in the same.
And it's got that real, craftsmanstyle build all wrapped up in it.

(52:15):
And so you've got to have the rightclient, that's willing to go into
that because it can be more expensivethan just regular stick built.
Oh, yeah.
Most definitely.
the cool thing he worked specificallyon barns and worked in Western
Pennsylvania and Eastern Ohio thestuff that he was working on was mostly
constructed a hundred years earlier.

(52:37):
And it was all hand hewn timbers andstuff like that, that he was replacing.
And, his joke for a long time was,man, I don't know how many hundreds of
board feet that we burned of all thatbarn wood when we were taking it out.
Sure wished we had founda place and stored it all.
But yeah, it's beautiful stuff.
Yeah,
there are other suggestions that youwould have for a homeowner that's

(53:00):
going in a journey that's lookingat specifically decks that they
should consider in their journey.
if they're in Atlanta,let's just come see you.
But
yeah, we hope you at least give us a call.
coast to coast, right?
Everything is region as we talked about.
I think if I were a client, if Icould give a client some advice, it
would be, take your time to do the duediligence on who you are going to s.

(53:25):
And I know that's kind of cliche ishbut what I mean by that is go ahead and,
be intentional with your decision thatyou're going to take the time to find
what's good for you and your family.
Cause you can't just take it backto Home Depot with a receipt.
You can't just take it backto Best Buy or, it's not a
refrigerator that you can return.
Once you get into that, thatbuild, good, bad or indifferent.

(53:45):
You're in it, right?
We try to make friends with all ofour clients and sometimes that works
well, but we're in their backyardfor, a significant amount of time.
So, I would just urge themto start early, right?
if my family had a goal of, Hey in 2026.
We want to do some stuff in our backyard.
Then I would start in Januaryof 2025, would start now.
I would start to ask friends andneighbors and your tennis buddy, your

(54:09):
golf buddy, the guy at church theguy at the water cooler, the girl
in your bunco, whatever, just startgetting that conversation going.
Get on some of the chat rooms in yourlocal area and see what people are saying.
Where you don't have to feel rushed.
I think what people do is in thisAmazonian world that we have, they think
we're just going to pick up our phone.
We're gonna pick up our computer andwe're going to find options and it's

(54:29):
going to be right there in front of us.
And we just got to decide.
And, it's just not like that whenyou are finding a marriage to go
into a, with a contractor, right?
would be my first and big suggestion istake the time to do your due diligence.
To find the right contractorfor you and your family.
That's a great
tip.
Oh yeah.

(54:49):
I have a couple of questions still.
If it's cool to run by.
I do wonder when you did expand and youstarted doing more stuff and you started
taking over the whole project in thebackyard, what was like the trickiest
I guess trade when y'all were evolving?
That's a good question.
you got to get the right people, right?
Yeah.
You got to get the right people,certainly working with the right subs,
the right crews the right and girls thatactually care about what they're doing.

(55:12):
Some of the things I think trade thechallenge for homeowners is understanding
because as design build guys.
Dependent on the approach.
Typically, there can be creep ina project, Projects of this size
can have what I call creep whereyou've got a budget for the sink the
water line and the gas to the twodifferent fire pits and the fireplace.

(55:32):
But those kind of things can creep becausesomething else could be added, right?
Torches with gas.
The electrical that has eightfans and two cans could turn
into 12 cans and four fans.
And so there's I think to answer yourquestion, probably the more the thing
that I had to get My hands wrappedaround early was making sure that our
parameters were set for our clients, andwe were setting expectation levels where

(55:55):
they needed to be because you guys knowsometimes you get in and all of a sudden
you look at the electrical the panelwon't take, what we're trying to add.
So now we've got to add a sub panel.
And there's again, there's creep, right?
And so making sure that we were asdirect early and often with our clients.
Helped.
One of the things that I, learned the hardway that helped us and we feel like we do
a pretty good job with it now is we bring.

(56:16):
All of our trades together in thebeginning to have our recon walk meeting.
So we can all talk about expected ofeach of us so that we can come together
because we're going to have some overlap.
Yeah.
And, I feel like that's where we canadd some value for a client is that
conversation is very detailed andI don't have to sit and listen to

(56:37):
someone go, Hey man, I'm on board,but I can't be here for six weeks.
No, that's not gonna work.
You're gonna be in three weeks, right?
Because we work together on everyproject and you're gonna dig the trench
and lay that, three weeks from nowbecause that's the schedule, right?
So being able to own our schedulebecause we are a group that continues
to work together project afterproject, I think allows us offer the

(56:58):
client something that's beneficial.
Cool.
Answer your question.
I think for me, it wasn'tnecessarily a trade.
It was bringing them all together so thatwe can set that expectation where it needs
to be for the homeowner, for the client.
And then this other question doesn'treally correlate, but had it.
I just didn't know where to fit it in.
Because last.
Couple podcasts, it'sJanuary, so everyone's talking
about health and wellness.
I talked about, a situation whereyou drop in the hot tub, like in a

(57:21):
wood deck or something like that.
wondering, have y'all done that before?
Is there any pros orcons to that situation?
And also, got brought up because we weretalking about Cold plunges, and I was
wondering if that was even possible.
Yeah, the wellness thing abig one right now, right?
We've got a lot of designs going out.
We've had a few builds in 2024 thatincluded saunas and cold plunges.

(57:43):
years, we've put hot tubs inside decks.
Matter of fact, I think our third deck weever built back in 98 was a hot tub deck.
So it started many years ago,but the wellness idea probably,
the fancy word trending.
Mike knows this, but talked about it inDallas, the biophilic bend of outdoor
living is alive and well, it really is.
And I think for it's,which is a great thing.

(58:05):
think.
People are understanding the importanceof being outside, whether that's from
2020, 2021, whether that's from whatever,you know, it's, permeating through
our industry and it's beautiful tosee, getting people outside in nature.
The research shows, as little as 20minutes outside raises serotonin and
lowers blood pressure, so that wellnessside of things, whether it's a hot tub,

(58:27):
whether it's a cold plunge in a sauna,whether it's the line of sight through
the window so that everything has,symmetry in the backyard, whether it's
fractal patterns that are offered in thepatio, whatever it is, just getting your
client outside It's always been there.
I think for now, we're just recently inthe last few years realizing just how
very important it is where years past,I would have clients go, Hey, John,

(58:50):
we're either going to spend money on ourman cave basement, or we're going to do
something in the outdoor space and we'releaning towards the outdoor space because
we know that adds a lot of value to beoutside, When clients said, Hey, John, you
guys built our happy place, I had a Joereborn it mentioned to me on a podcast.
He introduced me to the biophilicmovement and said, what's your
client's telling you is their bodyreacts different to the space that

(59:12):
you guys have built them outside.
And so much of the biophilicmovement on interior architecture
is trying to bring the outdoors in.
We don't have to do that.
We just literally need to get our clients.
Outside
we have everything that theytry to do is biophilic design
We just have to create the Platformthat they can sit and take it all
in, the water the trees the airall the things that are out there.

(59:37):
we've done A couple articlesand podcasts on that.
So yeah, it's huge.
know Mike, you've been doing it for years.
I've always been very impressed by theprojects that you design and you guys
build you've known this for a long time.
think it's amazing that even oneof the number one things that.
New homeowners are asking, accordingto Zillow, still to this day are

(59:58):
outdoor living space, What's they'recomparing comps, five bedroom, four
bath, has a basement, great kitchen,no backyard, five bedroom, four
bath, has a basement, great kitchen.
Oh, wow, there's outdoor living.
Now, all of a sudden thathouse pops up, higher in their
importance as they look to buy.
So even at the real estate level,we've designed for some real estate
agents locally, what the perspectivehome that they're selling, what

(01:00:21):
the backyard could look like.
So that when the future buyercomes in and says, Oh, this
backyard is not where I want it.
The real estate agents can say, it'snot, but here's what it could be.
And they look at it and go,wow, this is this exact house.
Yes, this design was puttogether for this home.
This is what yourbackyard could look like.
It's funny that he says Zillow, becauseone of the big categories to filter

(01:00:42):
things is square footage for houses,but they don't account the backyard, and
that's, it's such livable square footage.
I bet that's changing because
100%, that's a great point.
remember talking to someone about thatappraiser years ago, and he said it's
because it's not heated and cooled, sowe can't count it as square footage,
but we can still exist outside.

(01:01:02):
And actually, that adds a ton of that.
Yeah.
So I agree.
Mike, got to work into the equationeventually at some point, right?
It's so many homeownerstoday are demanding it.
and I tell people all the time.
The investment says I'm onlygoing to get 50 cents on the
dollar for a swimming pool.
And I said, yeah, that's if you builda basic plain Jane swimming pool.

(01:01:24):
Yeah, that's what you're going to get.
Now, if you build a resort inthe backyard, I guarantee you'll
get every dollar you put intoit because the next person that
comes in here is going to go, wow.
And I don't know how many timesI've had people say our house
sold because of the backyard.
Somebody walked in, they saw it, they'veseen six other houses, but they walked
in, they're like, wow, that's an amazingspace and that doubles, like you were

(01:01:49):
saying, it doubles our square footage ofliving space because we can live out here.
This is not just a cement pond withthree feet of concrete around it.
This is an environment, this is asetting, this is an oasis resort,
whatever you want to call it,now you've got a space that, can.
Enjoy and love.
But yeah the wellness aspect ofit is certainly a huge part of it.

(01:02:13):
Now, I don't think thattrend is going to go away.
I think it's just goingto get bigger and bigger.
I do too.
So you got other questions, Trey?
Not on topic, no.
Oh go to your standard, you know.
yeah, I usually ask three randomquestions just to get to know
the person a little bit better.
For instance, what's yourfavorite book, or movie meal?

(01:02:33):
Oh, and place to go.
Place to go as well, yes.
Book, movie, meal, place to go bookwould probably be I don't know about
my favorite, but one of my favorite,and I had just recently read it was
Dan Martell's book, Buy Back Your Time.
Really good book opened my eyes to a lot.
Favorite movie, my son would probablykill me if I didn't say Top Gun Maverick.

(01:02:53):
We've watched it handful of times probablyTop Gun Original would probably be one
of my favorite food gosh, I'm a suckerfor a really good brick oven pizza thin
crust, extra cheese but favorite place,I'm This is probably going to sound
corny, but really anywhere with my family.
I love spending time outside fishing,hunting, camping with my family.
Just being around them remindsme of what life's about.

(01:03:16):
Somewhere with them would be it.
Not gonna be too picky.
So do you have a pizza oven inan outdoor kitchen personally?
No I have a Kamado Joe, whichis like a green egg, right?
So we've cooked plenty of pizzas in that,
but I don't
have a,
just red instead of green.
Yeah.
Mine's black.
It was when they weremaking the black ones.
They're here in Atlanta a lot,like the headquarters of big green

(01:03:38):
egg is and Primo and all of them.
But so we were able to get a black one.
So that's a little different.
But.
Yeah, we've cooked some pizzas in there.
I do not have a true brick oven.
Okay.
we all have dreams, right?
Room to improve.
Yeah, those are trending right now.
They really are.
The
pizza ovens.
Oh, I was going to sayKomodo Joe's or Big Green's.

(01:03:58):
Those have been trending for a while.
Yeah.
I greatly appreciate youcoming on with us today.
Thank you.
I'm honored to be on this with you guys.
appreciate it.
Yeah.
the luxury outdoor living I think isa huge Space that is only going to be
a bigger and better with people likeyou and the products that you guys
offer the detail that you do withdesign and so sometimes when we're

(01:04:22):
in Georgia, we'll have to come visit
I got to tell you, you'vebeen an inspiration.
There's been times that I've looked atyour page to get inspiration on a design.
so I greatly thank you forthe words that you're sharing.
I think that as contractors, if we keeptrying to push that envelope, offer our
clients the best we can while keeping oureye on what's creative, what allows them

(01:04:44):
to have some really cool spaces then maybecontinue to do something pretty good.
And I agree this industry.
I love to see the youngergeneration come up.
I traded like you.
love to see this come through.
And hopefully the older guys likemyself and Mike, we can share
some of our war stories and helpthe next generation service.
A future client.
Yeah, a hundred percent on that.

(01:05:05):
Oh yeah.
you have someone that in yourfamily that works at the company?
my father works when he retired.
He came on board and pulls allof our permits keeps us compliant
there, does a real good job.
Years ago, my wife worked in the business.
We decided we either stay working togetheror stay married, one or the other.
We chose marriage.

(01:05:25):
So she is raising ourkids and that's a job.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It's a job.
sure is.
son maybe one day would possibly be in thebusiness, but he's only, about to be 12.
So a lot of time there.
But my father does work in the company.
Lots of fishing and hunting with yourson, so that could be a lot of fun
till he's ready to start working.

(01:05:45):
So anyway,
yes.
I do want to say what's interesting aboutthis industry in general, I know I've
heard stories from you and other peopleabout the people that were older and maybe
the experience of being negative, butall I've seen from going to these events
and these shows the older generationis pouring into the next generation.
And I think that's a reason why it's goingto keep on getting bigger and better.

(01:06:07):
I just want to say mythanks to both of y'all.
Oh, man, that's awesome.
I think that's the least we can do rightmike I mean if we're not careful, we're
going to wake up one day and there'sgoing to be a generation Of guys and
girls that don't know how to do the thingsthat they need to do So think it's our
duty and our honor to do that, right
Everybody doesn't realize When wewere growing up, we were supposed to
go to college and, become a doctoror a lawyer or something like that.

(01:06:30):
And the trades weren'theld in very high esteem.
And I think that is totally changing.
That the youth realize that, heyman, the trades are something.
It's great what I can go out hereand build and I can have a great
career and think That's turned thecorner which is a good thing because
our country's going to need it.
Absolutely 100 said so

(01:06:51):
Good luck with yourbasketball game tonight.
Baseball Baseball.
Okay baseball.
Have a great season with thatand we'll See you, if not before
in October and I guess in Vegas.
Yep.
And Vegas guys.
Thank you.
It was an honor.
Appreciate it.
Likewise.
I'll talk to you later.
Okay.
Take care.
John with South deckis a true professional.

(01:07:15):
He does some amazingstuff for the industry.
So where I first met him was at the.
International pool show and deckconvention are tied together now.
And so he was
on a panel and he's talking and heasked me a question from the panel.

(01:07:35):
He's Mike, what do you think about this?
How do you guys handle thebio politic design and aspects
incorporated in your projects.
I was like.
First of all, I was shocked that heknew I was and second, most panels don't
ask someone in the audience a question.
so then I dove into his companyand they do some amazing work.
I couldn't even imagine how todesign some of the stuff that they

(01:07:58):
do which is really crazy there.
All the different levels and, seatingspaces and structures and we talk
about how we have, I think I'm prettygood at dealing with elevation.
Oh, yeah, but he was talking about ahundred inches but yeah that's a lot.
He said he had a project with 42 feet.
Yeah.
42
I thought when I hadone that had, 25 feet.

(01:08:19):
That was huge.
So 40 feet's another 50%.
So amazing work.
And he really does give back alot to the industry and what he's
created, helped create for thedeck industry is really cool.
Oh yeah.
From that podcast what do you thinkwas the most interesting thing to you?
interesting thing that I got from itis that they do a lot of real wood.

(01:08:42):
I was surprised that the amount ofreal wood that they used and they're
using a lot of Ipe that's a veryhard wood to work with and dense.
So they probably have a lot of tricksthat we don't know on how to work with it.
Oh, there's a lot.
But the first thing I saw on a socialmedia when I looked at it was those
brackets, them putting the elevated deckon and him just walking through that

(01:09:04):
whole process was really interesting.
There's a lot that could takeaway from this conversation.
he was limited from a time standpoint,so I would have loved to have got into
some more of the material selectionsand, what kind of composite that he
really likes and stuff like that.
And maybe another round in the futureto get some more information, but.

(01:09:24):
Oh yeah.
definitely check out his socialmedia and website if you're
into decks at South Decks, yeah,
perfect.
I think that's going to be it for today.
We all have a good one.
Bye bye.
This show is all about helping you becomea better buyer, a better pool owner,
and hopefully you're going to find someinsights into how to enjoy your pool even

(01:09:48):
more so, how to help your friends, yourfamily, anybody looking to buy a pool in
the future, or that want to remodel theirbackyard, add an outdoor fireplace, fire
pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.
We want to be that resourcefor you, and that's the end
goal here, and we promise you.
That there's going tobe a ton of information.

(01:10:09):
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we want to share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.