Ep 075 Health and Wellness with Architect Paul Boulifard

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:02):
Welcome to Luxury Outdoor Living Podcast with Mike and Trey
Farley of Farley Pool Designs.
For over 40 years, we'vehelped homeowners turn their
backyards into personal retreats.
Spaces of joy, relaxation,and unforgettable memories.
And whether it's a cozy escape, or aresort style oasis, we design it all.

(00:24):
We know how overwhelming a projectcan feel and nothing feels worse than
a homeowner having a bad experience.
And that's why after decades of designingand teaching in this industry, We're
here to share our knowledge, helping younavigate the process with confidence.
Every week we break down designtrends and insider tips to
turn your vision into reality.

(00:45):
And since this is about creating somethingamazing together, drop a comment if
you have any questions, ideas, or justwant to be part of the conversation.
If you find this helpful, a like helpsget this out to more people like you.
And if you want to keep upwith what's next, go ahead
and hit that subscribe button.
We'd love to have you along for the ride.
Let's build your paradise together.

Mike (01:13):
It's cold in Texas, and this is Mike Farley from Farley Pool Designs,
and we are literally freezing here.

Trey (01:19):
Oh yeah probably not as cold as it is for our guest, who's from Nashville,
but Once it's below about 50 degrees inTexas, everyone freaks out a little bit.

Mike (01:29):
Yeah.
Well, At least we don'thave snow this week.

Trey (01:31):
No snow.
We'll see about Nashville.
Maybe they do.
Yeah,

Mike (01:35):
they probably do.
So it's going to be a a good podcast.
We're going to talk a little moreabout wellness in a general situation.
We're going to be diving into wellnessin very specific episodes upcoming some.
Different features, but Paul spokeat the international pool show
and on this particular topic.
and he attended a class thatI was in, which was a full day

(01:59):
long class on wellness as well.
So going to bring some really interestingthings for us to consider and think about

Trey (02:06):
perfect.
Let's get started.

Mike (02:08):
Thank you for joining us on luxury outdoor living, You
are our first return guest.

Paul (02:14):
No way, Mike.
don't believe that.
I need to see documentation.
It

Mike (02:17):
is true.
It is true.
That's what happens when you'remulti talented individual and
can teach about lots of subjects.

Paul (02:25):
Thanks.
Mind.
I appreciate that.
And, I think this is a.
I read your talking points isthat, great topic It's definitely,
we're on the horizon for newvalue add stuff for our industry.
So it's very topical and, yousat on the class in, Dallas with.
Joel Eric and
maria.

(02:45):
To, I think very influential peoplethat will help continue to shape
what this industry is relativeto both the technical side And a
design and aesthetic side, for sure.

Mike (02:57):
I think that there's so much that we can provide as an industry
that the homeowners aren't aware of.
my whole philosophy is, givepeople information, let them
decide what they want to do.
And try to help guide them tocreate what's best for them.
Okay.
And the fun of the adventure is that meansit's different every single time because

(03:21):
people want to go in different directions.
And so, think the more.
People can get informationabout things the better that
they can make those decisions.
And so, you know, you taughta class as well on wellness
at the uh, international show.
So would like to just start and justsay, do you think is for the consumer?

(03:42):
Cause that's who this podcast is basicallygoing out to is should they look at?
into creating their environment andtheir backyard or, you know, it doesn't
even necessarily have to be in thebackyard There are people that are making
wellness retreats and they're turningin a bedroom into, a wellness space.
And then, how can we add to that in thebackyard space and how can we be involved

(04:05):
in the 1 thing I want to take out of itis everybody's talking about cold plunges.
Okay.
So let's not deal with cold plunge.
Okay.
But let's talk about other stuffthat could fit into making families.
Wellness center.
I'll let you start andwe'll go from there.

Paul (04:24):
I am 100%, as completely biased when it comes to the world that I talk
about, because I'm going to talk aboutfundamentally architecture, because
that's the world that I live in.
And I think that architecturally ifyou've seen my presentation among
why architecture matters is thatthe built environment, no matter
what it is, has an effect on us.

(04:44):
And I think that, I'm going to build onthe point that you talk about, wellness
in relationship to somebody's bedroom.
I think that there's a sliding scaleof what people can do right now today
to increase their ideas of wellness.
And then obviously it tricklesinto very active processes to,
influence a greater scope of how Theworld of wellness can infect them.

(05:08):
As a profession, my professionhas basically taken the impetus to
deal with wellness from our senses.
Okay, which is sight, sound, smell,touch, hearing, all of those things.
So, If you start to think about.
The world that you live in relativeto your senses, you immediately,
if you can manage the world in justmanaging sound, for example, that can

(05:35):
affect the way that you see the world.
And it could be in the simple sense oflike at night when you go to bed, what's
one of the most pleasurable soundsto hear when you're at night in bed?
Is the sound of the ocean.
Which, that can eliminate allkinds of street noise, that
can eliminate kinds of things.
So, the idea That you can start to affectyourself in a very easy and simple way.

(05:55):
Now,

Mike (05:56):
when it comes to My grandson really likes that too.
He has a sound machine thathis parents use with him.
He's three years old, so he gets tolisten to the ocean every night, so.

Trey (06:05):
but another good one is rain.
And it's another source of water.
Yeah,

Paul (06:08):
for sure.
Which, think the idea that,obviously we're in the pool world.
I think one of the things that,next to sound is Light and daylight.
Those are the probably the two fundamentalthings that you as a human, if you
address those two things, your lifewill be different and there are so many
studies that are out there that studentsdo so much better in school when they

(06:30):
have access to natural light, however,that is, but I think that if you think
about sound, you think about light, andthen I think our relationship to water.
Is the game changer for how youcan feel better in your day.
And I talk about, in thepresentation that you saw in Dallas
was, blue Mind Theory, right?
there's a such a spectrum of Blue Mindtheory that can go from, obviously

(06:52):
immersing yourself in water intosome sort of hyperbaric chamber.
Or if you go into some sortof, sound deprivation chamber.
That's one end or going and swim inthe ocean, but they also talk about the
power of just concentrating of drinkinga glass of water and, the therapeutic
effects of like, hey, if you concentratein drinking glass of water, and if

(07:13):
you're having an incredible stressfulmoment and you focus on drinking that
glass of water, and if that's all thatyou focus on by the time you get to the
end of drinking that glass of water,you will feel automatically better.
Now, is that a metaphysical state?
Okay.
Or is that a therapeuticstate, or is it all of those
things that are bound together?

Mike (07:31):
Water is a powerful thing.

Paul (07:32):
Yeah, and to think about just as, for me the ability to talk about with your
clients that if they're going to make aneffort to change their environment, if
they can focus on some of those sights,sounds, smell, touch, and if they focus
on those items, and if they reallyconcentrate on those particular items and
there are obviously, 15 years ago, theLEED, LEED accreditation for buildings,

(07:57):
green building, put an emphasis in themarket to eliminate VOCs from the majority
of the materials that we deal with, right?
And for those that are out therethat don't know what VOCs are,
volatile organic compounds.
Which commonly, ironically, is, oh,it's new car smell, or, man, this
house smells, remarkably fresh andclean because it's just been painted,
or, man, this new carpet smells great.

(08:19):
All of those things are actually terriblefor us, but they represent the end.
something that's new, but thosethings, if you start to, we don't
have to worry about that too much.
Now, all of those kind ofthings have gone by the wayside
because the market has shifted.
But, we talk about.
Biomimicry and the choices that weget to make for material selection.

(08:40):
All of that stuff becomes super importantfor taking control over your idea of
what wellness is and how you can do it.
Some of it is, we'll call itgross, like the fact of, picking
particular wellness therapies thatyou can incorporate into a project.
But I think it also can be assubtle and as very deliberate
as picking the materials forwhat it is that you're doing.

(09:01):
that's my intro to what I think it doesn'thave to be something that's so disparate
of a like, Oh, we're going to do wellnessand we're going to go down this road.
I think it's built into the process.

Mike (09:11):
There's a lot of integral pieces that from subtle to, pronounce that can
all have an effect on what we're going tofeel in the space we're going to live in.

Trey (09:21):
Yeah, when you go to a spa, they have certain materials
to soothe your experience.
It's not like you just have a shack witha sauna and then a mud bath in one corner.
It's all.
Yeah, it's a huge puzzle.

Paul (09:33):
it's a very choreographed.
Yeah kind of experience, right?
you know when you comein, are you hearing?
What are you smelling?
What's the temperature?
What does it feel like in the space?
All those little subtle pieces,notable spas There are things that
you know, you can really understandand you it's a difference, right?
It's a the thing about going to a spathat is different than your daily life

(09:54):
is oftentimes it's so dramaticallydifferent because your life is nothing
like that in your house or anything.
And then when you go to the thing,you're like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
this is so dramatically different.
Yeah, because half the time when you'reat home, it's, you know, the floor is
too cold and somebody's screaming inthe background and, all you want to do
is have five minutes, take a shower.
That's why the, but the spa is so unique.

Mike (10:16):
Okay.
are there particular materialsthat you think create that effect?

Paul (10:22):
the kind of using biomimicry.
Model, which don't know.
Do we want to unpack that a little bit?
Do we want to just putthat off to the side?

Trey (10:32):
I mean, You mentioned a couple of times.
We might as well go down there real quick.
Yeah,

Paul (10:35):
I don't want to call it a trend because it's, Firas can talk about
trends and, difference between atrend versus a style shift or a fad.
He's fantastic at that.
But I think the method that is one stepfarther to picking materials, okay.
In any kind of project that aredifferent than, say, 10 or 15 years
ago, biomimicry as a concept is tocreate an environment that's around you

(11:02):
that is more natural of an environmentas it relates to being outside.
And so it is for the lack of a betterterm, living in a less plastic world
and, some might argue that plastic isa real product and I think that I'm
not trying to say that we don't needplastic, but I think that part of the
idea is that when you make selectionsin materials that are in your life, that

(11:29):
you might want to pick something that'sless synthetic and something that's
more natural to its original state.
For example, if you're, picking a tilecoping, you might want to pick a tile
coping that's maybe a natural stone.
And that the deck material thatyou're sitting on or sunbathing
on might be a wood product ratherthan a synthetic wood product.

(11:52):
I know that there are obviously benefitsto having composite wood decking material,
and it's good that some of the wooddecking material has wood in it, but I
think that there are some selections aboutthose subtle things that you experience.
That should be more natural and I thinkthe biomimicry kind of theory wants you to

(12:12):
pick materials that are less manipulated.
There's a whole movement in thefood industry now about, a shift
away from not just processedfoods, ultra processed foods.
And, eating foods that are, you know,there's the raw food movement or the slow
food movement or any of those things.
And I think that biomimicry, the builtenvironment world has a way to plug

(12:36):
into that, just like some of theseother trends that are happening that,
we don't need to be exposed to as much.
One of the takeaways that I learnedfrom the seminar in Dallas was, is that.
Maria said that when you get in apool and you stay in a pool for,
a certain period of time that yourbody, your skin absorbs, up to a liter

(12:57):
of water when you're in that pool.
so, when you're in that pool,the water and the chemicals that
are in that pool that you managethe chemistry of your pool.
So you ingest that and youabsorb it through your skin.
So wouldn't you think that naturallywhat you're putting into your
pool isn't something if you'rein it for 20 or 30 minutes, what

(13:20):
is that bringing into your body?
How do you feel about what that is?

Mike (13:23):
So what chemicals are you digesting?
Cause you're actually.
The type of water chemistry thatyou've created, whether it's something
with ozone or, something that's,more natural or more chemical based.

Paul (13:37):
if it's UV treated or if it's gone through a certain level of filters
or, you know, in Maria's case, she'stalking about bio pools where, you
know, the actual natural environment.
Through, a retention pondis still water, right?
Yeah.

Mike (13:53):
The vegetation and the media gravel media is the natural filtration process.

Paul (13:58):
Yeah.
the bugs and the birds in this thing arethe things that are, taking advantage of,
whatever's moving through that ecosystem.

Mike (14:04):
Other questions about that tree.

Trey (14:06):
I was going to ask, what was the pretty much the replacement for.
Chlorine and ozone, but that makes sense.
The bugs.

Paul (14:13):
Well, I mean, I think that, Joel Eric outlined a couple.
I He has very sophisticatedsystems that he had put in place
that manage and treat water.
And I think that it'sa multi stage process.
UV obviously is being one that'stakes advantage of that process.
And, using geothermal.
To heat and and using, less, technicalor artificial products to heat and

(14:34):
cool your water become, there's energythat gets built in that process.
Exact science, you know, Joe Eric dida fantastic job, there was lots of
chemistry, there was lots of, you know,and I did not do well in chemistry lots
of diagrams of exactly what does thisto do to that to then, make the water
a better place to be would be one ofthe things that think that he has a

(14:54):
resource would be a great way to thinkabout the super specifics to that.
I'm glad that the pool industryis shifting away from, the heavily
chlorinated pools and moving away.
The salt type is also important.
And now they're that ozone isbecoming an important factor.
It's the evolution of a technology that Ithink is in my mind it's very successful.
And in the end the owner andthe experienced person gets

(15:15):
to take advantage of it.
It

Mike (15:17):
is a lot better environment to swim in than what I swam in the seventies.
That's for sure.

Paul (15:21):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm lucky I have any hair on mybody from , my experiences of the.
Late 70s and early 80s I'mlucky I have skin too, which
is the sun in that situation.
I probably wore sunscreen maybethree times the entire time
between the ages of 10 and 16.

Trey (15:39):
Me too.
I think it's interesting because withthe point you made with like your skin
absorbing, almost like drinking water,like a liter of water, that definitely
makes you, if you think about that beforeyou go in to pick materials, you'd pick
more natural, I would assume materials.
But then again, the synthetic materials,they probably don't, they don't flake
and they don't, less, I don't know,material would leak out into the water,

(16:02):
I would assume, with a synthetic wood,I don't know, like a porcelain, yeah.

Paul (16:09):
I think that, I'm not advocating that you can't have
a vinyl liner pool, right?
a vinyl liner pool is, I'm not hereto try to poo that experience, but
that's a highly industrialized product.
Fiberglass is the same thing, right?
when they make it to yoursite, they're relatively inert.
There, obviously leachingof vinyl or fiberglass.

(16:29):
mean, I don't know what that is.
That's what water treatment's forand that's where, one thing that
we're glad that doesn't happenwith a pool was pools don't burn.
That they don't catch fire.
I know.
That's not a big problem.
Whereas if you have a building andyou wrap it in vinyl siding and it
catches fire, that's a big problem.
Burning vinyl or burningmaterials that are like that.
Are incredibly toxic.

(16:50):
So I think that there is the idea ofthe final end state of a material.
I do a little bit worry about deckingmaterial like wood decking material
and, there's cool decking and there'smaterials that, On the market, I do have
a little bit of curiosity of what that'sgoing to be like in 10 years, because
that stuff is it off gases it constantly,especially in a situation like you guys

(17:14):
in Texas, it gets really hot and what iswhat's coming up off the surface of that.
We all know that asphalt.
As a surface when it gets hotis incredibly toxic and noxious.
Those are environmental conditions thatI mean, it's, concrete has its problem
because it's, has a carbon footprint.
That's really bad.
And I'm not here to talk about politicsor the idea of what the embodied

(17:36):
energy of things are, but it does makea difference for those choices that
you make and how do you utilize them?
In your backyard, and I'm not tryingto advocate for a super, reduced
carbon footprint kind of environment.
I'm just saying that I think sometimesyou need to be aware of some of those
choices that you make in order to, impactyour environment in a way that's, good.

Mike (17:57):
I'll definitely stay away from the asphalt around the swimming pool.

Paul (18:00):
Oh yeah I think those are, through the, there's certain areas that, I'm sure
that's cachet, but haven't found one yet.

Trey (18:06):
You never know though, there's probably one out there.

BBQ Intro (18:10):
We're going to take a break here for a second
and get into outdoor living.
So with outdoor living, we liketo go to barbecue bits here.
We're going to share some informationof everything that you may want to
consider in your outdoor living space.
As far as features,especially for the kitchen.
Hope you enjoy this.

Mike (18:29):
Okay.
It gets cold sometimes and peoplewant to stay outside all the time now.
So what's your recommendation inregards to, the heating of the outdoors?

Bobby (18:44):
Some of the feedback that we get from our customers is, Hey, if I would
have done it over again, I might wantto incorporate drop screens or I might
want to incorporate maybe under counterlights, but the biggest void we see.
Or outdoor heating solutions.
This is by Infratech.
So in a nutshell, not to takeyou on a boring journey this
company is out of California.

(19:04):
Great company.
You can get differentcolors with Infratech.
So what does a standard dualelement bulb heater cover?
And how high can you?
The questions a lot of peopleask is, How high can I put it?
And then, what's the coverage?
We're finding that Gas isgood, but electric is better.
It's not as invasive.
We can incorporate into subpanels, add if we need to.

(19:26):
A heater like this isa 61 inch dual element.
They call it a CD.
CD is a curved back.
This one's in black, andthey call it a motif overlay.
It softens the look up.
If you'll look at the two heaters,WD, this is their standard heater
they came out with, CD, and what'sreally the difference of the two?
Color you can see already.

(19:47):
Well, It's the bracket mounting.
The bracket mounting is on the end.
Some of our customers are like,you know what, it's a heater, it
doesn't really bother me a lot.
But some customers will say,listen, I like the brackets, but
is there any way we can hide that?
And on the CD series, they'retucked underneath, so the heater
actually looks like it's floating.
And we see that regardless ofcolor, that this is the most

(20:07):
popular heater that we do.
Why would we show a WD?
You do have some flat ceilingsthat you guys specify.
And these would go into framesystems and do top down heating.
When you do that, there's no valueadded to do this type of here, so we'll
take the customer into that direction.
What's the mounting height?
8 to 12 feet.

(20:27):
What is the amperage?
25 amp.
Dedicated.
You can't tie these into one 25 amp.
if you have Lutron, System 4, Crestron,can you hook up to a house panel?
Yes, you can.
why should I do a dual elementversus a single element?
Here's the one value added piece.
It's a high low.
So if I want to operate, Infratech hasa switch that's called a stack switch.

(20:51):
It operates each bulb independently.
So like a morning, like thismorning, wasn't too cold, 59 degrees.
If I want to operate one bulb withoutjust overheating that area, I can operate
one bulb by just a touch of the switch.
Now if it's a little cooler, likewe're going to get at the end of
this week, In it's forties, then I'llprobably operate both of them again,
11 by 11 area will always recommendpairs, always to define that area.

(21:17):
So outside of the porch again,like opposing each other?
That's right.
So like outside in wall, off house, out.
Or define that sitting area.

Mike (21:25):
So 25 amps, that's you gotta do some planning to make
sure you have the juice for that.

Bobby (21:32):
You do.
Absolutely.
You do.
6,000 watt, 25 amp.
11 by 11 coverage is it's significant.
Now, does it heat the air?
It heats objects.
It's infrared heat, right?
So does it affect when wind blows?
It does a little bit.
And one thing is if you do dropscreens, this is value added.
If we do gas heaters, we don'twant to do drop screens with gas

(21:53):
heaters inside of an enclosure.
You can get a carbon monoxide poisoning.
So this is less invasive.
I can go 36 inches away from a ceilingfan and 18 inches from an inside corner.
And your combustion requirementis the bracket behind it.
So you can put it upin really tight areas.

Mike (22:15):
That's

Bobby (22:15):
great information.
That's

Mike (22:17):
awesome.
So if we're not doing electric and we goto gas, do they have a gas unit as well?

Bobby (22:26):
Infratech does not, then we take you to Bromic.

Mike (22:29):
Okay.

BBQ Ends (22:30):
So I hope you enjoyed the barbecue bits that we just featured today
and we'll have more coming up next week.
If there's something in particular thatyou're interested for, let us know and
we'll get back into the episode now.

Trey (22:44):
You being an architect I'm sure you've put a lot of
saunas in buildings before.
In houses.
Yeah.
It's a big trend now.

Paul (22:52):
It is.
And so I'm not going to talk about coldplunges because, I've got a project
that's going through permitting right now.
that we did an addition off the backof their house and that they have a
special area that is of sauna cold plunge
area
that's built into their house.

Trey (23:03):
And then we talked about cold plunges a lot, the last podcast.
That's why we didn't talkabout sauna as much at all.
And we would love to talk about them.

Paul (23:10):
Yeah.
So I think are one of those things that.
Oftentimes, I don't want to say it getsVE'd out of a project, but oftentimes,
when it's at the beginning of theproject, it is a built in component
to the job, and then oftentimes as itgets farther down it doesn't get VE'd
out, but it becomes, oh, we're going tojust buy this appliance, we're going to

(23:30):
have a, an area dedicated with it, Andthen we're just going to plug it in.
Benefits of a sauna, Ithink, experientially and
physiologically are huge.
The details of what type and how todetail it and where it goes, those
are the challenges of a projectthat I think become really important
because I think you have to be.

(23:52):
Very committed to certainaspects of a sauna.
If it's going to be a situationthat it's an infrared sauna, and
it's going to be like an appliancethat you're just going to plug in.
Then it's a situation that you're like,okay, hey, we're going to dedicate a
circuit, we're going to put it in the,pardon the expression, it's going to go
in the basement, and it's going to be in,an area right next to the workout area
or something, it's going to be littlecommitment versus, a wet or dry sauna

(24:16):
that is, a much more impactful commitmentthat has a much more climactic difference
in a house or outside of a house, you.
There are all kinds of details that youhave to really think about relative to
where that's going to go, people thinkthat, oh, it's just going to be like the
infrared sauna, you're just going to stuffit in the corner, but it needs to be,
climactically very managed, and I thinkthat in relationship to outdoor living,

(24:41):
I think it's an amazing thing to actuallyinclude in your outdoor living space,
because it works as an architecturalelement In an outdoor living environment
and it also works as like a mini house inthe sense that it can be its own thing and
you can use a dryer, you can use it wetor you can have, it can be a little bit

(25:02):
larger in scale and it can be much moreexperiential rather than, some of these
things like a telephone booth that you goand stand in and you're like in timeout.
While you get hot, The kind of partof the experience of a good sauna
or steam room for that matter, steamshowers are another huge component.
That I oftentimes design in people'shomes because they're like, oh,

(25:23):
we've got to have a steam shower.
And I'm like, equally asbeneficial as a sauna.
in a kind of a, there's some veryimportant details that you need
to do for doing a steam shower.
But I think that's a different kindof pendulum that, Is part of the
wellness world that I think that, it'sa, you can be in a micro environment,
take a shower that's very cold.
And then all of a suddenturn on the steam shower.
And within a very short period of time,you're in that hot, cold dynamic, which

(25:48):
is, I think real wellness benefit that Ithink really people overlook is the fact
that it's not just the cold plunge, Okay.
It's the relationship of the coldplunge to the sauna that really
takes the benefit for your wellnesssystem, not just the cold plunge.
So if you don't have the heat component,then it doesn't have as much of a

(26:11):
wellness benefit like just a cold plunge.

Trey (26:14):
Yeah, that rush from heating up all the way up to your top,
whatever it is, you heat up to 185.
Some people do 205.
It's but then that dramatic contrastto going to the cold plunge is
a lot more significant than justgoing to the cold plunge every day.
And that's it.

Paul (26:30):
That's right.
And I think that where a lot of people,especially, I'm going to blame the
CrossFitters because the CrossFitters arethe ones that really latched onto this
because they go and they work out andthey're like super, they're super jacked
on, doing, 75 toes to bar in a certainperiod of time their body's still so
intense and then they have the opportunityto go to a cold plunge their internal
body temperature is really high and thenthey can get some benefit to that, but I

(26:54):
think that the real relationship and askedabout Asia and Europe and, talking points.
Europe has been doingthe cold and hot therapy.
For hundreds of years before we'vejust now created it into a fat and
that's a, the Scandinavians andScotland and the Scandinavians and
the Scots and, the Belgians and theSwiss, they've been doing this this

(27:18):
kind of therapy for a really long time,

Mike (27:20):
Romans.

Paul (27:21):
Yeah, for sure.
talk about it in one of my, introto wellness stuff that done for
Genesis is just like the relationshipto water has been, I refer to it
as the great forgetting, right?
forget that, there's these kindof, I want to say primal, but there
are some really simple things that.
That we constantly forget and, goingfor a five minute walk and standing
in the sun is a way better way toclear your head than anything, just

(27:45):
to just be outside and get fresh air.
but that concept of, the Europeansthinking about the relationship
to wellness and body wholenessis, is not them and, and is
definitely something that.
it's a relationship of hot and cold.
it's a little one sided herebecause we're fascinated with the
cold plunge, but I think that thebenefits for doing both is essential.

(28:05):
And I think that if you, when you'retalking about backyards for people and
if they're looking for cold plunge.
That I think that you really need tocoach them into thinking about the real
benefits being a sauna component too,or some sort of heat therapy to and
make that relationship really work.

Mike (28:21):
A lot of people have the hot tub, the spa, that's very common.
So I think that's why a lot of peoplehave adapted the cold plunge because
they can get, they already have thehot and so they can go to the cold, but
the sauna is different than a hot tub.

Trey (28:36):
Way hotter too.
It's dry heat.

Mike (28:38):
Yeah.

Paul (28:39):
and your endocrine system.
It's totally overdrive when you're inthis, your body is sweating, it's pushing
out toxins that are in your system.
And, it's a game changer for that.
A hot tub is great.
The therapy a hot tub and the ideaof does, I think the hot tub in
itself as a single thing greattherapeutic kind of approach.

(28:59):
But I think if you're going to gointo the world of wellness, it's
literally a hot cold relationship.

Mike (29:04):
And you're going to get a better hot cold relationship with the
sauna cold plunge than your hot tub.

Trey (29:09):
Yeah.
I want to talk about mentioned thelayout and how some of these look
like telephone booths, which I thinkis hilarious because when I first was
introduced to Asana was when I went tolike LA fitness and I just sat there.
And then obviously there's 12 guysaround me, we're all using it.
So I'm just sitting there with aproper way to use Asana is actually.
You lay down on the bench and you cooklike you actually just cook there.

Paul (29:32):
You're like smoking yourself like a piece of salmon.
Yeah.

Trey (29:35):
And so you can't do that in the telephone booth, I just,
I want to make that point.

Mike (29:39):
Some of the things too is, some of the saunas are designed.
So you've got this piece of glassso you can look out and enjoy the
space that's outside of it as well.
It's not just about.
Sitting in there and sweating, it's about,the setting that you've created and what
you put it in so you can enjoy this space.
So that's the, one of the thingsthat, if you get a little bit larger

(30:01):
sauna, you got a little bit moreglass to look at, you got more of
the garden and setting to look at.
And that's part of thewellness journey as well.

Trey (30:11):
Yeah.
One of my dream features on likemy dream pool, if I would, I could
just have as much money as I wantedto throw into a pool was I saw
something on Instagram one time.
And it was a swim up or swim intosauna so you could swim from the
pool into the floor, the sauna.
And it had like glass on all four sides.
I don't know how well that would work.
'cause you need thewood component as well.

(30:31):
Yeah.
But still, yeah.
It's really cool.

Paul (30:33):
And think if we can dream it up.
Somebody's going to be able tofollow through and build it.
that's part of it.
But, you also bring up an importantpoint about the benefit of a sauna
is the idea that you're prone, right?
Like you're completely relaxed,you're on your back and that you're
letting this, Temperature andeverything wash all over you and
you're not any kind of strain, right?

(30:54):
Like you're not like sitting hunched overit's a relaxation state And so I think
that's part of much of a psychologicalexperience too because you just want to
just Focus on being in that moment andthere are other so we're talking about
the relationship hot, cold plunge, right?
But I think that there are othertherapies that are out there that are

(31:16):
just cold focused like cryotherapy.
Which is a different type of wellnesstherapy, they all have medical
benefits, but like cryotherapy inspecific is a type of therapy that is
targeted for a particular condition.
And, say for example, you have kneepain or back pain or you, maybe you have
some sort of, a circular system kindof condition that the difference is.

(31:38):
Temperature difference from being at 72degrees inside the room where you put
on your little booties or whatever, andthen go into this freezer chamber with
your head sticking out which is like froma 70s cartoon, you go in there and this
thing, the temperature drops to such alow level that your body goes into almost
like a form of shock, because you don'thave the ability to kind of, you go in

(32:00):
and drop in an ice bath, it's Half thebattle is the psychological experience
of like, okay, I'm going to get in thatthing and I know it's going to be really
cold versus getting in a cryotherapysituation where it's okay, you're going
to get in this thing that's like a light,like it's boom, all of a sudden you're
in this experience and it's takes yourbreath away, but it, has incredible
benefits for rheumatoid arthritis,any kind of inflammation and joints.

(32:21):
there are Real significantmedical benefits to that particular
therapy, which isn't necessarilypaired with the sauna condition.
it's just the therapy that, people,they get significant subscriptions
and they go through, you can get aprescription from your doctor to then
get some of this, cryotherapy managed.

Trey (32:39):
I always thought cryotherapy was interesting, because the first time I
heard about it was when LeBron James wastalking about his diet and his regimen,
and that, it just got really popular afterthat, I think, but, and Tom Brady did
too, so some of the best athletes out.
old age and the professionalstints they had both used it.
So

Paul (32:54):
there is a, for them, for an athlete that is playing and competing
at a particular level for a consistentamount of time, yes my guess is that.
they're going to need somethinglike that just to continue to
perform at a particular level.
cryotherapy is great for people that, likeI said, that have rheumatoid arthritis
that are just looking for some relief.

(33:15):
Relief from the
pain.

Trey (33:16):
Can you put one of those in the backyard?

Paul (33:18):
not, I've not done any cryotherapy.
I think those are justthemselves are six figure items.
I would think that the power controlfor something like that would
also be relatively significant.

Trey (33:28):
And then hiring staff to control everything.

Paul (33:30):
So, Yeah, and then there's also the therapeutic effect for that, that
I'm sure that there's somebody therewith dials that have to be, very.

Mike (33:37):
That's what wellness centers are for.
So go experience those things andnot have to put it in your backyard.
That's a becoming more and more of athing is commercial wellness centers in
the U S versus like you said, in Europe,it's been going on for hundreds of years.
I can't think of many cases herein the U. S. That's been the case.

(33:59):
have been some hotels I know that havedeveloped wellness centers that are
fairly well known for their product thatthey have, but not a common situation.

Paul (34:10):
one of the things that's historically been a bit unique
in the United States havebeen a natural phenom, right?
In the sense that there areplaces, I don't know if you've
ever had the opportunity togo to Hot Springs, Arkansas.

Mike (34:24):
Yes.

Paul (34:25):
Where that was a destination.
For people that were travelingacross the country to call it the
olden days when they would travel bytrain, they would stop and they would
get off at hot springs, Arkansas.
And there was a whole collection of hotelsthat were there that were in the basement.
They had hot spring spa like experiencesthat you could go and it was geothermal

(34:49):
kind of baths that you could go to thatwere all based from directly coming from.
The area that was there and it was thesouthern Missouri, Arkansas into there.
I'm sure there's parts of Texas thatit's called Karst topography, which is a
layered limestone that has water trapped.
In between it and depending on where itis in strata of the earth, it can be hot.

(35:14):
And so what happens is it's a naturalgeothermal kind of experience.
So, That's probably naturally in the US.
That's one of the kind of the firstareas that, you know, and there's other
places in the country that have that.

Mike (35:27):
There's one of the, I can't remember the name of the hotel was
where they built the first hot springs.
It was actually, I think Iwant to say Pennsylvania.
Yeah.
Early on, but we've backpacked fora long time and when we come out, we
always go to Pagosa Springs in Colorado.
Yeah, sure.
Because of the springs that are there.
And that's a pretty elaborate setupnow versus always, mostly like sulfur

(35:51):
versus what it was when we firststarted going there 30 years ago.
But there's a lot of natural things thathave evolved that people take, and apply.

Trey (36:01):
that's huge in Japan as well.

Mike (36:03):
I was going to say the Asian wellness situation is a little bit
different than the European andthe fact that they embrace a lot of
more of the natural aspects of it.
just a different mindset and philosophy.
But both can create a lot ofdifferent things for homeowners.
Yeah,

Paul (36:22):
on my bucket list and I'd be fully transparent on my
bucket list is to go to Asia.
I really want to go to Japan.
And one of the differences culturallythat I think from Western European
mindset and ideology versus an Asianone is the ritual component of the
wellness side of their culture, wherewhatever they're interacting with, if

(36:49):
it's a tea ceremony, or if it's somethingthat has great importance, the focus.
And they ritualize that experienceslightly differently than the
Western side of that mentality.
And I think that sometimes that ritualof a process of a series of steps to
deal with the notion of experiencingsomething I think is a way that.

(37:13):
Culturally is different

Mike (37:14):
are different in how they approach things.
They look at herbs and teas and oilsand all kinds of treatments with that.
They look at massage yoga.
That's all a little bitdifferent philosophy.

Trey (37:29):
I'm curious, being an architect do you ever design specific spaces for yoga?

Paul (37:34):
you know,
I do commercial work too.
So I haven't had the pleasureof doing yoga studio yet.
I've done a lot of different things.
I, 1 of the things that, Ijust completed and it's just
opened is an actual cold plunge.
Hot sauna facility and there have beenmultiple that have opened up recently
in Nashville that I think are, lessof a lifetime fitness approach and

(37:54):
more towards kind of a spa full bodykind of mind, therapy experience.
I think that body movement.
which is the yoga studio meditationare 2 components that I think are part
of the wellness journey that kind oflike what I said at the beginning of
our conversation, which is you have anopportunity to control your environment.

(38:17):
Maybe it's very simple in your house tomaybe pick a location that has the best
light that comes in, and maybe you havean area that's super clear and clean,
clutter free, that it gives you a placeto either practice yoga or just meditate.
And I think that movement, and this iskind of part of the thing about, you think
about the origins of yoga, tai chi othermovement oriented kind of experiences,

(38:41):
it is very ritualized in the sense thatit's about the experience of going to
a place, and if you see people in Japanexperiencing a type of Aikido, which is
a type of, choreographed kind of movementit's pretty remarkable, because they
may do the same set of movements overthe period of six months, but they're
constantly trying to sharpen what thatexperience is because it's a part of

(39:03):
their mind, And their movement and theirbody, and they're hyper-focusing on it.
And I think that those and theirenvironment that's around them.
So a yoga studio a meditationspace, and any of those things
become super, super important.
And I like to comm it allthe time with my clients.
I just met with some clients this morning.
We're gonna do a custom house.
They want to do a pool and this andthat, and I'm, basically some of their

(39:24):
homework originally is like, where inthe morning do you like to just sit,
be quiet and have a cup of coffee?
What is that moment like?
Let's think about that for a second.
let's let that be the driving forceversus my house has got to have an
island, it has to have a working pantryand, let's, think about the moment.
not the things, but the processor the ritual that you want
to really fully achieve.

Trey (39:43):
I don't know if that answered

Paul (39:44):
your question, Trey.

Trey (39:45):
No, that helps.
that's an interesting philosophy,too, because obviously humans
are like creatures of habit.
So starting off at the beginningof your day is a great way to
start off the process of How

Paul (39:54):
do you end it too, right?

Trey (39:55):
Yeah, exactly.

Paul (39:56):
when you're designing a pool, I think you, a great thing to think
about is that obviously there's thevessel itself, but it's, what are
the activities that potentially couldhappen around the perimeter of the pool?
I think it's amazing to think thatyou would have this great indoor space
that overlooks your pool and thenan area where in the mornings you
could come out and just do a wholeseries of stretches for 20 minutes.

Mike (40:20):
and enjoy the water and the view.
Yeah.

Paul (40:22):
Yeah.
The temperature of the day, the soundsof the day, the smells of the day.
I took a class as an undergradthat I'll never forget the class.
It was a site design class.
And the teacher for the class was, therewere two professors, one was very, I'm
going to use the word romantic, and theother one was very technical, so they
played against each other really uniquely.
And one of the things that thetechnical guy said one day, which it

(40:45):
was a kind of an icebreaker, to me,it was oh, this is an interesting
twist was is that, there's benefit.
For the natural feeling of cooling, ifyou're in a, an incredibly hot environment
and you hear the sound of runningwater, just the sound of water hitting
water, it has a natural cooling effect.
You don't have to be anywhereclose to it, but it's the sound

(41:08):
of it that makes it, automaticallyhas a therapeutic cooling effect.
And so that in itself, when youthink about it, think about sitting
outside of a fountain and you hearthe water rushing and, you know, it
is enveloping and it's therapeutic.
Imagine not having to actuallyget in the pool, but being able to
hear the water running at a pool.

Trey (41:26):
It also might be like the psychology because like when you're
around water, typically it's colder inthat area, like by a lake or a pool.
So like you're.
You hear that water in your, it'slike a placebo effect almost.
Yeah, for sure.

Mike (41:37):
Your typical Mediterranean courtyard, what did it always have?

Paul (41:41):
Ah, absolutely, a fountain in it, yeah.
It had

Mike (41:43):
a fountain in it, yeah.
And that was a very arid,dry space, typically.
Yeah, and really hot.
Typically, yeah.
Here's the cooling effect that wecan enjoy all the rooms face into it.
Yeah,

Paul (41:55):
plus it makes a great effect for when you want to have that vanishing edge.
You see all that.
Yeah, it creates that nice opportunity

Mike (42:03):
mentioned that you would like to travel to Japan.
So have you been to Europe or anyparts of Asia and experienced the
wellness and the aspects there?

Paul (42:15):
So my travels, I have been to every state in the United States except
for Maine, and I think North Dakota.
Those are the two that I haven't been.
And Alaska, what I think of continental.
So there's three statesthat are still on my list.
And in Europe, I have not been toPortugal, but I have been to Spain,
and Italy, and France my father wasFrench, the first time that I've been

(42:36):
to France was when I was five, so myextensive travels throughout France,
and Great Britain, I've been to NorwayI've been to Prague, Czechoslovakia,
.Been throughout Germany, Italy, Greece is, on my list.
And I've been extensivelythrough South America, been to
Peru and Bolivia and Oh, wow.
I have not been to Mexico.

(42:58):
I'm trying to think if there's anyplace that's around in there that
I've been to that I would count.
think one of the things that's reallyinteresting about traveling, traveling
is amazing because it opens your eyes upto so much subtle cultural differences,
if you're willing to look at them asbeauties, rather than difficulties I
realized that the reason I say that is, istraveling to Peru and Bolivia was because
Radically different life experiencethan I have been to anywhere else.

(43:21):
So it's such a dramaticcultural shift than Europe or
anywhere in the United States.
the experience with the builtenvironment is so different.
Like, I feel like.
Where I went in Bolivia and Peru, it isso much more simple as a place I feel
like sometimes in the developed world,we overcomplicate things some of the
hotels that I stayed in, in Bolivia, itwas like, literally, there was no like,

(43:46):
my hotel room was a place that I slept,And I had a basin of water in my room.
I didn't have a sink and a faucet,I just had a basin of water that
I could use to, wash my handsor brush my teeth do whatever.
And then when I would leave, theywould come and they'd swap that out.
Ideally, were drinking that.
but that's a kind of a fundamental thing.
If you think about wellness as aninfrastructure, right to think

(44:07):
about the universe that you're inas an infrastructure and thinking
about when I used to teach at theuniversity level, I always used to
think about like, when you walk overto the faucet, you turn on the faucet.
Where do you think that water comes from?
People like, oh well, it comesfrom the faucet and I'm like, yeah,
I get it comes from the faucet.
But where does it come from?
how far did that drop of watertravel to get to your sink?
would be like, know, I don't know.

(44:27):
It just came from somewhere.
And as a question becomes, when I wentto this hotel and I was standing there,
I was like thinking, I'm like, okaythat water, where is it coming from?

Mike (44:37):
They give you a pitcher to pour into the bowl.
Right,

Paul (44:40):
And where does that pitcher come from in relationship to,
did it come from a cistern?
Was it collected from the rain?
did it come from a wellthat came out of the ground.
And listen, it's a part of the worldwhere, I drank more beer than I have
in any other part of the world because.
and when they say don't drink thewater, they mean don't drink the
water, because the flora and fauna thatlive in that water is not something
that you and I anyone on this podcastyour body would acclimate to but

(45:02):
it's something that's different.
But, we just, I hate to say it, we alltake for granted, just like, hey, putting
on a faucet and, we got water to drink.
that kind of, as travel your questionabout going to places and seeing
things or doing things that aredifferent, that's one of those things
that was significant to me, was justthinking about taking a moment going,
Okay, this is different, right?
And it was a luxury too.

(45:24):
That's the other thingis in this hotel, right?
If you're thinking about somebody comingand taking care and doing this basin
thing is a kind of a luxury, right?
It's a hotel, I

Mike (45:33):
when you're travels all in Europe was there any place that
you got to experience some oftheir wellness establishments?

Paul (45:42):
a little bit of the unfortunates of a lot of my travel in Europe.

Mike (45:46):
You were young.

Paul (45:46):
What's that?

Mike (45:47):
You were young.
Oh, too.

Paul (45:48):
Well, yeah, some of it too is, is I was, visiting family.
So the idea of going tothe idea of a, retreat.
Is less so, but I think one of thelast things I did when I was teaching is
took a group of students to Spain, andwe traveled for eight weeks through lots
of different places in Spain, and I thinkthat the biggest, take away from Spain in

(46:09):
particular is the cultural difference ofwhat it's like of the pace that they live,
which is very similar to the pace thatItalians kind of emulate some of what the
French do, but the Spanish kind of do itvery different than other parts Europe.
they have a workday that doesn'tstart at 8 a. m. It starts

(46:32):
at roughly 9 or 10 o'clock.
Then it goes to about two o'clockand then the world shuts down.
And what I mean, shuts down, shutsdown . I and either they go home to
eat or they go to a restaurant there'sa, gap in the day that it could
be an hour, it could be two hours.
Or they have a meal and some might callit a siesta, some might call it, it's

(46:52):
a very pronounced portion of the daythat they're just gonna take a break.
And then two o'clock on, they'll worktill eight o'clock at night and then the
end of the evening, they'll go into theevening, but it's a very culturally kind
of methodology about the way that thevery deliberate way of living that is,
not about the immediacy of the situation.
It's, you know, obviously people workand they do their things and you go

(47:14):
to, commerce happens but I think ofit as a, pronounced way of wellness.
I mean, I think we could reallytake advantage of as a way to
be more deliberate about the waythat we walk through the day.
mean, I'm not saying that we've got toget up at 10 and take a break, but I think
it's less of, I'm guilty of it all day.
I sit and half the time Ihave a sandwich at my desk.
And I'm like trying to catch up on email.

Mike (47:33):
the whole thing that I think Americans are trying to wrap
their heads around is trying toget the health and wellness that.
Europe and Asia both have, and they'retrying to plug an appliance in to do that.

Paul (47:48):
Yeah, agree with you completely

Mike (47:49):
and the problem is that's not gonna work, Yeah, wellness
is a philosophy of life thatyou've got to change How you live?
part of the things thatthey do is how they live.
Okay.
And it's an extension of how they live,think that our goal is to help provide

(48:11):
people better sources to do that with.
And so it's great if you canhave those sources in your home.
To be the efficient American and tryto do it as quick as possible but it's,
philosophy, your philosophy on somethings that are going to have to change.

Trey (48:27):
We live in the fast food culture too.
So like what you're saying, designated.
Timeslot is crazy because like lunchwill go from what 1030 starts at Chick
fil a all the way to probably like230 it just depends on the person's
schedule and then they're eating in15 minutes as quick as possible Eating
on the way to somewhere like eatingat the table while you're working.
That's our philosophy.

(48:48):
It's get the deed doneand continue working.

Paul (48:51):
the thing that this is a struggle, right?
I'm driving the struggle bus at thepoint of work life balance, right?
that's always a big challenge.

Mike (48:58):
Oh, I can talk about that.
for sure.
Or the lack thereof.
Let me get

Paul (49:04):
there.
and I think that I talked about itin the in the presentation you saw
in Dallas is that there is there's awellness institute that's out there
sometimes when you say things like that,you're like, That's just ridiculous.
And it's like, well, no, it's notbecause we have to, at some point,
understand the choices that we makeand how we forget, like we wander

(49:25):
all the way down this path and werealize that, hey, this isn't healthy.
And I think that the Wellness Institutediagram has broken this piece in
the six, different components andthose different components talk about
social skills and work, work and.
Access to a physical activityand it's not okay, I'm doing
these check boxes every day.
spirituality.

(49:45):
It's like, how do all of these differentcomponents fit into your life to make you,
a well rounded and healthy individual?
And I think that challenge for meis, is you talked about an appliance.
You want to plug it in like, oh, here'sa health, here's a wellness appliance.
the part that scares me is the.
pill mentality, I'm gonna pop thisthing that is, I don't, if it's a

(50:09):
ozempic, , you know, what's that?

Trey (50:10):
Ozempic?

Paul (50:11):
Yeah.
Oh yeah, that for sure.
definitely the.
The fix all situation.
I mean, The world is, you know, wesit and watch a television program
and you're going to get marketedto because, oh, I have leaky pipes.
Oh, dear.
I must have a problem.
I need to go take a pillbecause I have leaky pipes.
It's okay what are theleaky pipes relative to?
Is it?
I think that some of it isbeing aware to what you're

(50:32):
doing or what you're not doing.
And I think part of it is just theability to just take a deep breath
if I were to have a pool, I would tryto enjoy that pool as much as I can,
even if it's just sitting outside witha cup of coffee, just looking at it,

Mike (50:46):
right?
I had called all a bunch or texted abunch of my clients when it snowed.
Oh, can you send me a video of your poolin the snow and they were like, it's just
so peaceful and serene and everything,you know, sitting out here enjoying the
space and thank you for what you created.
And it's freezing outside,but they were all loving it.

(51:09):
So anyway.

Paul (51:10):
I sat what it was 12 degrees this morning when I met with this
client out on, this 28 acres tolook at this plot of land for where
this new house build is going to go.
And it was cold out, but you knowwhat, the best part was, is we
were all standing there in thesun and we're all standing there.
At one point, we're all standing in aline facing the sun because it was great
because that sun is washing over you.

(51:31):
And it's like, you know, if thewind doesn't blow, it doesn't
feel so bad out here, right?

Mike (51:35):
Oh, no.
That's what's awesome abouttypically when we're up in Colorado
is typically the sun's shining.
Yeah.
you may get, a snowstorm.
That's about the only time it'scloudy, but the rest of the time it's
sunny and, you're outside and it'sdoesn't feel like it's five degrees.
Well, Yeah,

Paul (51:53):
and the thing that's amazing about Colorado is my godchildren were born in
Colorado, so I got to spend a lot of timevisiting them, was it was so amazing that
you could go outside and it would snowlike crazy, and then the next day you'd
go outside and that sun was so intense.
And then you could just go with thesnow and it was so dry like you could
wave your hand and the snow would justall fluff up into the air and It was

(52:16):
like true powder like it was candyland.
so remarkable as an experience

Mike (52:22):
Oh, yeah, I can go down that road very easy and tell lots of
stories, but we'll stay on point
A favorite project where youIncorporated Wellness, the
appliance, and somebody's backyard.

Trey (52:37):
Yes, anything that comes to mind you're thinking about that.
Is there a job?
Yeah so, I will tell

Paul (52:43):
you about that commercial job.
I don't really have a I have one that'son the books right now that, it has a,
family room and then it's got a saunaand a cold plunge that are associated
with it, but that's ink on paper atthe moment, trying to get through
codes, getting through permitting,and I have that, wellness service.
facility that it just happens tobe adjacent to a yoga facility,
which is what, you were talkingabout before earlier tray.

(53:03):
So it is fully realized.
And they've just hadsome photographs done.
I can share with you guys whatthat kind of experience look like.
Because it's a very.
has a group sauna as a space.
It has a, what they call a movement space,which is not necessarily for yoga, but
I think it's for stretching and for,kind of meditation and mindfulness.

(53:25):
And then they have a group plunge,then they have some individual
saunas and individual plunges.
So the idea is that thisis a model therapy space.
That you can go to, they have thekind of classes that gets, it's more,
you're like, signing up to go for achoreographed experience for that.
that probably is something thatis the most notable project to me.

(53:49):
And I started it just about a year agoand it's been completed and their opening
is in a couple of weeks their grandopening, they've had a soft opening it's
a pretty, notable space and experience.
So that's a commercial experience.
When it comes to backyard experiences,the trend is catching traction at the
moment, I can't really say that I havemuch that's developed into actual.

(54:13):
Experiences in the backyard that'sprobably going to be changing
more and more as we go forward.

Mike (54:18):
Nashville's hasn't been drawn into all the stuff that's coming
from the edges of the country yet.

Paul (54:24):
think it's definitely on the horizon.
I mean, We've got lots of peoplemoving from California, so it's
definitely a conversation at that point.
Are you guys going to theNespa show in Atlantic City?

Mike (54:32):
No so we'll be in the Southwest show down in Houston.

Paul (54:37):
Have you guys ever been to the Nespa show?

Mike (54:39):
I've taught at it twice.
Yeah, so that's my origin.
I grew up just up the coast there.
That's where I was born.

Paul (54:47):
Oh, where were you born?
I didn't hear you were fromthat part of the world.
Point

Mike (54:49):
Pleasant was where I was born and I grew up in Toms River New Jersey.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Right outside of Seaside Heights.
Yeah.
Okay.
Where everybody in NewYork City vacations.

Paul (54:59):
how did you get rid of your, Jersey accent?

Mike (55:02):
Warshan comes out some of the time but, I'm a really twisted individual.
So I lived 12 years in Jersey andthen I moved 12 years to West Texas.
So in Lubbock, and then Imoved in 12 years and lived
out in Northern California.
So between all that, it bounced.
Oh yeah.

Paul (55:20):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
That's all gone.

Mike (55:22):
So mac davis really ripped it bad with happiness is lubbock,
texas in my rearview mirror.
But other than that, Most peoplethat go to lubbock Stay in lubbock.
So we just had a nephew thatGot married and his daughter was
from Dallas, Fort Worth there.
area and moved out there and she's like,told her parents, I'm not coming back.

(55:43):
And so they actually areretiring and moving to Lubbock.

Paul (55:46):
Wow.
Well, only reason that I make that.
Very kind of tongue in cheek jokeis that when I was looking for
teaching jobs ages ago there wasa job opening that was there.
Yeah.
And I interviewed, or I setout my application and I got
shortlisted, but that I didn't getan opportunity to interview there.
And When I was talking to other colleaguesabout it, and they're like, oh, yeah,

(56:07):
made a comment that was similar.
Like, If you land in Lubbock.
you're never escaping.

Mike (56:11):
No, it's not.
it is a very goodarchitectural school too, yeah.

Paul (56:14):
Texas.
The Texas has got a plethora of goodarchitecture programs, that's for sure.

Mike (56:19):
Now When I left California coming back to Texas, my wife said,
we can go anywhere except Lubbock.

Paul (56:28):
she drew a line and a proclamation.
She was like,

Mike (56:31):
she visited once and it was in the middle of one of the lovely spring
days where the whole sky is brownbecause all of New Mexico is blowing
over and sand blasting everything.
She was like not, and she,that day she wore a wraparound
dress too back in the day.
So she was like anywherebut Lubbock we can go.

(56:53):
So anyway.

Trey (56:54):
You talked about that job having group plunges, which, the idea of it is
it makes sense, I've seen a couple ofthem, but I've never like, your plunge
you designed right next to the hot tub,that technically is a group plunge.
I think you can

Mike (57:08):
put two people in it, but there's never two people in it.
It's just, he goes from hot to cold.
Yeah.

Trey (57:14):
So what's the idea behind that?
Just being able to fit more bodiesor is there like a kind of a
community aspect to it as well?
I

Paul (57:20):
think it's a, bit of a community aspect to it.
I think that.
It's like group fitness.
If you want to think about group fitnesslike, I have never been a successful guy
to go to the gym and work out on my own.
Yeah, me neither.
That's not me.
If I'm going to the gym, I'm eitherplaying a sport or I'm doing some
activity that is quasi curated for me.

(57:42):
Right and it's a, lots of groupfitness and it's a, whatever it is, if
it's a 45 minute workout and there's10 other people in there, we're all
sweating through the same thing, right?
it's an accountability thing.
I know that my peersare going to be there.
My friends are going to bethere and you can go that.
And I think this idea with.
I think it's scale for 1 thing.
a dollar per square foot revenue model.

(58:03):
That is going to get a certain numberof people that are there, it's a group
experience that I think that If you'rein a room by yourself, and there's a
cold plunge, there's no accountability,I'm not going to get in it, right?
Whereas if I'm with a group of people,and everybody's getting in, and we're
going to try to hold it out and stick itout for 60 seconds, or 5 minutes, or 10
minutes, then we're all in there together,and we're going to do it together.

(58:23):
And I think that there is asocial component to it, and This
particular facility has plugged intoa huge wellness community that's
in Nashville that is, it comes tosustainably grown and harvested foods.
It is yoga, it is, aromatherapy it'sa huge, and I can share with you

(58:47):
guys the website, there's a hugecommunity of people that are all
plugging into this wellness mentality.
I think that they're trying to, for lackof a better word, capture that as a thing.
So it's not just like, oh, youknow, versus the cryotherapy
that we talked about before.
That's I'm going to go there because I'vegot a prescription and I need to go there
and that's something that I need to do.
Yeah.
I think it's 12 by 16 is the size of the vessel.

(59:12):
that they, and the problem from a codestandpoint, we're not going to get
in the weeds on that, but the codestandpoint of that, when you get to
that size, it's no longer a personalkind of condition, it has a whole series
of ADA constraints, which means youhave to have a Hoyer lift, there's all

Trey (59:26):
That just reminded me of that one show Kevin Hart used to
have, I don't know if he mightstill have it, but Cold as Balls.
It was hilarious, and theyused to just get an ice bath
together and he would Oh yeah.
was a great show.
did you see that there's afamous one where he's having a
conversation with Mark Cuban?
Oh, I haven't seen that one.
But yeah, he's had a lotof famous people on there.
Yeah,

Paul (59:45):
should watch the one with Mark Cuban.
it's pretty amazing one of thethings that I know that Maria talked
about when we were in Dallas, whichI think is I think another component
now, which is on the horizon as acomponent to wellness is this idea of
longevity and there's the immediatebenefit to it, but I think there's this

(01:00:07):
prolonged kind of long term effect,which is this idea of being able to it.
Do more for longer when you takeon particular habits and traits

Mike (01:00:18):
of now.
Oh, sure.
You're got the baby boomers thatdon't want to die, so they're looking
at everything they can to extend.
I have to be honest.
I'm 62 years old.
Okay.
And I remember my grandfather at 63,he passed away at 63 and I look at the
life he lived and all of the things thathe does versus what I do, I'm living a

(01:00:42):
totally different life than what he lived.

Paul (01:00:44):
Oh, yeah.
can only imagine.
Yeah.

Mike (01:00:46):
So the thought of, I'm training right now to do a competition that I'm
going to climb 29, 000 vertical feet and.
36 hours in June.
At that at sun Valley, my grandfathersat in a chair and watched birds,
not anything against him, but, from a

Paul (01:01:04):
different, totally different mentality, totally different.

Mike (01:01:07):
And he died at 63, and they, the joke was, they're like, wow.
when the work people got togetherwith the family people, they write.
We figured he'd go soon because he wasjust, how much he smoked and they said,
what do you mean he didn't smoke at all?
And they were like, Oh, atwork, he was a chain smoker.
I mean, You literally lit a cigarette, putit out and light the next one, you know,

(01:01:29):
but then he would go home and he told menot smoke at all and told my grandmother
that the smoke smell was cause everybody,back in the day, back in the seventies,
he's like, everybody smoked in the office.
That's why I smell like cigarettes,it's Just different what I'm going is,
the baby boomers, they all want to livelife and they want to live life well in

(01:01:49):
their seventies and eighties and longer.
So yes the idea of wellnessand longevity tying together.
Yes.
I think there's a. Direct huge correlationbetween that on where we want to
go and where we want to be and howactive we want to be in, from a mental
standpoint and a physical standpoint.
And, that's where you look at also.

(01:02:12):
A lot of the different cultures, you lookat people from Asia, as they grow older
are very mentally sharp and physicallycapable versus us Americans especially
And a lot of it goes to, so we'relooking at all these different sources
and how societies and how they've lived.

(01:02:32):
And now, how can we adaptthese things to do better?
I guess that's where my ramblingsgoing is, as a society, we want to
do better and we want to live longer.
Most definitely.
Oh, yeah.

Paul (01:02:44):
agree completely with you know, what do they call The areas that are,
blue zones where there are people thatare well into their hundreds that live
very comfortably and very mobile and,their access to the outdoors, their diet,
their mobility, all of those things becomeeasy integral components to their life,

Mike (01:03:03):
and a lot of those things are adaptable and so therefore
we want to try to adapt some ofthose things so we can do better.
me doing better means that, gee,I get up at, 30 every morning and
I exercise and I walk for an hour.
Okay.
That's awesome.
Did I do that a year ago?

(01:03:24):
No, I did not.
So am I in a lot betterphysical condition?
Yes.
So I had a lot more fun skiingthis year than I did last year.

Paul (01:03:33):
And that's that's one of those things that, that I totally over the
past 1824 months for me is is I haveto get moving again it's a discipline
that starts to be once you get pastcommitment of fundamentally mentally
doing it, and you start into it, thebenefits just it's just remarkable.
The stress levels that, the bumps inthe road don't seem as bumpy when when

(01:03:56):
your body's moving and running on all,in my case, three and a half cylinders.
So

Mike (01:04:03):
it's definitely if you feel better physically, you do better mentally.
Yeah, there's no doubtthere's a correlation there

Trey (01:04:11):
which I think is funny because You were talking about how people
want to have an appliance to take allthese health benefits and apply it.
But, swimming in water is one of the bestworkouts you can have, you're buoyant,
it's not bad on your joints, so a lot ofpeople can swim even in their old age and
it's by far one of the best workouts youcan get, because I remember I was never a

(01:04:32):
big swimmer, and I went to LA Fitness, andI decided to use the pool a couple times.
And I've I just kept applying myself,and then eventually I was like, Wow,
this is way better than running, becauseI'm working on my arms, I'm running,
I'm working on my chest, I'm it's funnyhow we look over swimming sometimes.
And

Mike (01:04:47):
your knees don't get pounded.
Yeah,

Trey (01:04:49):
they don't get pounded.
And I can swim.
It's it's like a four footpool or whatever it is.
So I can swim until like I'm Likehaving Charlie horses and cramping up
and just walk out less chance of dying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Stop doing it.
Like a 10 foot pool.

Paul (01:05:03):
For sure.

Mike (01:05:05):
So in the wellness aspects, one of the things we always ask people is if
they've experienced a true crime somethingthat they were like, I just can't believe.
That happened to somebody or somebodydid this or that type of thing.
So I was just curious if you hadanything that you thought of,

Paul (01:05:26):
that leads a little bit of insight into I think that
the true crime in the buildingindustry is the term no maintenance.
Oh,

Trey (01:05:38):
yeah.

Paul (01:05:39):
I love this.
Okay.
Okay.
my world the world of no maintenancecan come in the it's a magic material.
that's the thing that is the truecrime in my industry that is the
snake oil of the building industryis this idea of no maintenance.
it seems like the worst culprit.
Of this no maintenance expressionis the vinyl industry because vinyl

(01:06:04):
siding, vinyl windows, vinyl gutters anddownspouts, the vinyl mesh that's in the,
in your gutter to keep the leaves out.
For some reason, the vinyl industryhas some sort of like secret back room
where they're going to constantly,unfold stuff and, we could tailor it
to the, we could tailor it to the poolindustry because the vinyl liner industry

(01:06:25):
has their own kind of proclamationsabout what their benefits are.
But I think that concept that someonesometimes clients come to me that I
want my house to be no maintenance.
And I'm just like, that's ridiculous.
No such thing.
That is the true crime in theconstruction industry that
everything requires maintenance.

Trey (01:06:43):
Yeah, I agree completely.
I don't know if you know this, butI worked on the backend for a lot
of the jobs that my dad did, andthis doesn't apply to his jobs.
But there was certain times wherelike a floor system would be installed
and the customer, I don't know if itwas a salesperson or they just assume
this, but they would assume there wasno maintenance required because it's,
system that's not the case at all.

(01:07:04):
You still have to, you know,get the leaves out of the pool.
You still have to brushthe pool and add chemicals.
It's.
Not a known maintenance system.
It's less maintenance.

Mike (01:07:13):
is a word lower maintenance.
Yeah, but there is not a,

Paul (01:07:17):
Or resilient material, right?
Do you want something that's notgoing to deteriorate anybody who lives
in a vinyl siding house that's in atype 4 climate zone, they're pressure
washing their house at some pointbecause mold and mildew is growing on
that vinyl like you wouldn't believe.
don't know what part ofmaintenance that you're not doing.
It's pretty ridiculous.
I like that component though.

(01:07:38):
I like that true crime additionto the cadre of questions.
Yeah.

Mike (01:07:43):
Well, We do have question that we spring on everybody.
We want to know what your favorite bookis, your favorite meal is, your favorite
movie, and your favorite place to travel.

Paul (01:07:53):
Okay.
Favorite movie.
I could add that one's easy.
Blade Runner by Ridley Scott.

Trey (01:07:59):
Great movie.

Paul (01:08:00):
that's all time favorite movie.
Director's cut, original cut,whatever it is best cinematographic
like all of it together.
That's fantastic.
Favorite book?
that's a tough one was funny because hadlunch with a colleague today, client, and
we were talking about one of the thingsthat she was sitting there and she's
like, Oh, don't worry about being late.
meeting for lunch.

(01:08:20):
I have my book.
and we got there, and we were talkingabout our book, I said, I was like, man,
I was holding their book, and I was like,man, this is such a luxury to think about
having some time to read a book, right?
Just like the, you know what killedreally killed my reading is when I
travel, You used to not have Wi Fi onthe airplane, and you didn't have any
of your devices, and so it was great.
You could like, just sit there, andyou could read your book, right?

(01:08:41):
one of my favorite books, and it'sgonna be a toss up, and it's gonna
be really dark, and it's, you guysare gonna be like, man, that's sad,
in a dark kind of way, but my twofavorite books, And I'm going to
put them both in the same categorybecause they struggle for the title.
by Cormac McCarthy, and it's NoCountry for Old Men and The Road.
guys read either of those?

Trey (01:09:01):
No, but I've seen the movie for No Country for Old Men.
Great movie.

Paul (01:09:05):
here's what I would tell you.
You've seen the movie.
Yeah, it's so good.
Coen Brothers.
Absolutely fantastic.
The second movie that if I had to picka second movie, it would either be
The Big Lebowski or Raising Arizona.
that's the kind of shifts, right?
Different kind of genre.
But, so you've seen NoCountry for Old Men.
Yeah.
All right?
You've got Javier Bardem as the main kindof villain in your head for that movie.

(01:09:25):
Yeah.
You need to read the book.
Okay.
Because the book is so dramatically better than the movie and everybody
says that all the time, right?
The book is always better.
It

Mike (01:09:35):
almost always is.
It is, yeah, that's

Paul (01:09:37):
right.
But I will tell you that there weretimes when I read For No Country for Old
Men, I did not want to turn the page.

Trey (01:09:43):
Last book I read,

Paul (01:09:43):
I was like, doomed.
I do not know what, andThe Road was the same way.
In the sense that the road, themovie, the road is terrible.
Victor Morganson or whatever his name is.
Terrible movie.
they just sucked thesoul out of that movie.
Those are kind of favorite books.
And I have a whole bunch ofother ones that I would like to.
Okay.
So we got, movie, you got books.
is travel the place I want togo or the place that I've been?

Trey (01:10:04):
I don't know.
Do you think the place youhaven't gone yet is probably
going to be the best place ever?

Paul (01:10:08):
mean, like, I want to go to Tokyo.
I I want to go to Japan justbecause, you want to tie it to Blade
Runner, it's definitely that, right?
Because, there is this kindof glorification of that
cinematography that feels likegoing through the center of Tokyo.
but I think that travel wise probablyone of the most, the prettiest places
I've ever been was a little tiny beachin Hawaii as a paradise experience

(01:10:28):
that's not like something I've evertotally removed from the universe.

Mike (01:10:32):
Which island?

Paul (01:10:33):
It's on Maui, it's south of Wailea, if you, go farther south, past
apparently you can drive south aroundMaui all the way around to Hana, but
it's like off road versus going northaround and going to the road to Hana,
which is a, very serendipitous route.
I would say that's probablyone of the most beautiful
places that I have ever been.

(01:10:53):
And have ever witnessed on theplanet just a remarkable kind
of experience it's such a beauty

Trey (01:11:00):
As a place who is amazing say the same thing to which
line i didn't get and meal

Paul (01:11:06):
so this is the part that's hard the meal having french background.
best meal ever beef bourguignon, which isa, if you've ever had it, which is like
a stewed beef that's in a red wine saucethat's like slow simmered for a super
long time with either you get them withmashed potatoes or a scalloped potato and
that's probably the most, quintessentialmeal that I could think of that is like

(01:11:30):
one of the best meals, but if it's ago to like thing that I could eat every
day for the rest of my life, it's pizza
pizza of any kind.
I am totally nondescript in the senseof like I am such a pizza aholic in
the sense that I like all the pizzas.

Trey (01:11:43):
I was about to ask you what's the best pizza that you've ever had.

Paul (01:11:46):
there are two types of pizza that, I will say that are like
this I realize pizza and probablybarbecue are the most too contentious
fisticuff level, discussions thatanybody can have on the planet, right?
barbecue in the sense ofthe noun, not the verb.
So it's the, you know, isit pulled pork or whatever.
So I grew up in the worldof Pizza Hut pizza, that was

(01:12:06):
the world that, I got pizza.
And so since then, I thinkthe best pizza I've ever had
is in Multipliciano in Italy.
if we're going to go with a kindof a Neapolitan style pizza
in that part of the world, bestpizza ever had in my entire life.
That's the high mark.
The pizza that if I were to arguewith, Is probably the most distinctive

(01:12:29):
pizza in the United States.
Is New Haven style pizza, whichis probably one of the most
unique styles of pizza outside ofDetroit style, Chicago style, St.
Louis style New York style, or whatever,and if you don't know what New Haven
style pizza is, I do yeah, okay so,

Trey (01:12:45):
there's a movie, have you seen Pizza, A Love Story?
No, but I've heard a lot of pizza reviews,because it's an entertaining subject to go
down, and New Haven pops up quite a bit.

Paul (01:12:54):
Yeah, so if you want to go down and understand the cult.
Of pizza you watch the movie, and I thinkyou can watch it on Vimeo, I think it's
a Vimeo thing, I think they ask you for adonation for two bucks or something like
that, but it's called Pizza, A Love Story.
it will give you the background.
To anything and everything that'sabout New Haven style pizza.
Do you guys know Justin Ivey from PHTA?

(01:13:15):
I don't know exactly what histitle is, but he's really active
in the young pool organizations.
And Justin happens to live in Hamden,Connecticut, which is just outside.
He's from that whole part of the world.
And Justin and I always getin these long conversations.
About New Haven Style Pizza andwhich are the different ones.
And there's it's a wholecult of personality.

(01:13:36):
Absolutely.
that stateside best pizza in the country.

Trey (01:13:40):
I have to check it out.
Yeah, we will.
We'll have to.
I think guy that ownowns, it's just different.
I think the guy that owns Barstoolsports says the same thing too.

Paul (01:13:47):
So I follow that guy.
What's his name?
Dave something or other?

Trey (01:13:50):
Yeah.
I can't remember his last name.
It's on the tip of mytongue, but yeah it's Dave.
He does all those pizza reviews.
That's what I was talking about.
Yeah.

Paul (01:13:57):
Yeah.
Yeah, that guy's really funny.
I like him a lot I think sometimesit's the interaction with the people
around him rather than eating theslice of pizza that's interesting So

Trey (01:14:06):
yeah thank you.
Thank you for coming on the show as well.

Paul (01:14:09):
my pleasure.
as you guys are probably well aware.
I have no problem sitting around chitchatting and talking about Whatever it
is that we need to talk about And listen,I think this is a great forum for what
I think is the important thing for whatyou talk about, which is engaging with.
the customer base is trying todemystify us a world that is not
very oftentimes easy to understand.

Mike (01:14:30):
we're trying to fry it a little bit of light on the subject.
So anyway, you

Paul (01:14:34):
guys are doing a great job and I appreciate being offered to
come back and talk about this topic.

Mike (01:14:39):
If you have any pictures of the 1, place that has the
soft opening, that'd be awesome.
I think it's just allinformation helps people.
So Thank you again, sir. Andstay warm there in Nashville.
Yeah.
you'll be in Atlantic city then?

Paul (01:14:55):
I will be in Atlantic city.
I fly out on Sunday.
I'll be there to Wednesday.
This particular, Experienceis I'm actually presenting it.
The world at Lottie.
Health conference inLuke, not at that Nespa.
They're coexisting at the same time now.
But I'll be at that.
And then my next event in March,I will be at, an event with in

(01:15:16):
Amelia Island, it's the, I thinkit's MGP maybe, is that right?
Master Pool Guild.
Is that MPG rather?

Mike (01:15:23):
Yeah, they typically do an event the, around mid-March.
So that's probably them.
Yeah.

Paul (01:15:29):
So I'll be teaching architectural styles there, and
then there's the mastermind event.
Which is gonna be in September,which is in Fort Lauderdale.
I don't know are you familiar,are you familiar with that event?

Mike (01:15:37):
Yeah.
So the first year it came up, itwas like, oh wow, that's quick and
I'm already planned and booked.
So we'll see if we'll beable to make it this time.

Paul (01:15:45):
that, that one came late in the I mean, it was well attended for how quickly
it came on the scene, and it was a great.
venue.
The turnout was really good andthe interactions were really good.
And now that it's a little bit more,get some time to get it a little
bit more curated and organized.
I think it's going tobe a really great event.

Mike (01:16:02):
That's awesome.
You have a good one, sir.

Paul (01:16:04):
And thank you very much, gentlemen.
Thank you.
Take it easy.
You too.
Yeah.

Trey (01:16:08):
That was a, fun talk.
That was really, really awesome.

Mike (01:16:11):
Yeah, Paul's got lots of insight about lots of stuff.

Trey (01:16:14):
Yeah, the conversation was flowing pretty good.
Yeah, lots of stuff is downplaying it.
We went all over the place.
I think one of the best thingsthat I liked was when he mentioned
that when you're in water, I don'tknow, I'll have to fact check this.
I don't know if it's true.
It sounds true, but that your skinsoaks up almost a liter of water.
that aspect of just like being in water.

(01:16:36):
And we've been talking about,health and wellness a lot lately.
And I think that's just a cool littlefact, a little nugget of knowledge.
I didn't know, but I'mgonna take home with me.

Mike (01:16:44):
Maria that was a class that I took at the international show on wellness
and she's from Italy she's actuallyhosting a trip for people to come
over there and experience some of the.
The facilities that they had therein Italy but that's what she said.
So

Trey (01:17:00):
it makes sense too.
Cause like when I'm in water, like whenI'm in a heavy chlorinated water, my
skin gets really tight, but you stillfeel healthy after working out, but
your skin, like It's water, but it'svery concentrated with the chlorine.
So it makes sense.
What did you take home from that?

Mike (01:17:15):
there was everything from new Haven pizza blade runner, to longevity of life.
The wellness aspect Isnot just plug and play.
There are certain things you can dobut I think part of it we got into
is philosophies that, you need toconsider modifying on how you live.

(01:17:37):
For you to have a goodfor you to live well.
Now there are certain things thatwe can incorporate into your home
environment that can help do that.
But just, I think the thing that hestarted with The senses and the sense
of sound and just going to sleep with thesound of ocean water, waves, it's just

(01:18:00):
as simple as can be, certain things thatyou can do to create a better situation.
So I know that Calvin.
Enjoys his waves that helistens to every night.
So

Trey (01:18:11):
prefer my uh, you know, listening to Die Hard when I go to sleep.

Mike (01:18:15):
That's probably why you're not well.

Trey (01:18:19):
But people are uh, creature of habit.
So, you know, Having these differentamenities, whatever they might be,
the sauna, the cold plunge, the pool,the hot tub, having access to that.
It, it breaks a barrierof entry to being well.
A lot of people say, fitness and health.
Whether that be diet or fitness equipmentor whatever it is it's expensive.
So it's good to know what you're spendingyour money on to pursue that goal, to

(01:18:41):
be healthier, physically and mentally.
love this topic.
It's awesome.

Mike (01:18:44):
We're gonna dive into some more of it over the next
couple weeks in some more detail.
I think it was great that hegave us some more to think about.

Trey (01:18:54):
Oh, yeah.
I guess that might be it, right?
Yeah,

Mike (01:18:56):
We'll see you next week.

Trey (01:18:58):
Adios.

Outro (01:18:59):
This show is all about helping you become a better buyer, a better pool
owner, and hopefully you're going to findsome insights into how to enjoy your pool
even more so, how to help your friends,your family, anybody looking to buy a pool
in the future, or that want to remodeltheir backyard, add an outdoor fireplace,
fire pit, add an outdoor kitchen area, addsome shade cells, or whatever else it is.

(01:19:23):
We want to be that resourcefor you, and that's the end
goal here, and we promise you.
That there's going tobe a ton of information.
We'll try to go through it, youknow, as relatively quickly, but
also slow so people can understand.
But the intent of the show, thereason Mike and I are doing this
is because we just got a lot inour heads and we want to share it.
So we hope to see youhere every single week.
Thanks for listening.

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